TRIGGERnometry - Lily Phillips: Why I Slept With 101 Men in One Day

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Lily Phillips in an OnlyFans creator and pornographic actress. SPONSOR. Go to https://shipstation.com and use code TRIGGER to sign up for your FREE trial. Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Substack! https://triggernometry.substack.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Shop Merch here - https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. 00:00 Introduction 01:42 Why Are People Upset At You Coming On The Show? 07:06 In What Way Do You Enjoy It? 11:25 Are You Safe? 16:04 Seeing Porn At A Young Age 19:39 How Do You Feel About The Documentary 29:55 Having A Family In The Future 34:20 What's Wrong With Doing OnlyFans? 41:06 What Have You Learnt About Men? 52:50 Does It Affect Your Ability To Connect With Someone? 01:03:53 Are We Repressed Sexually? 01:07:03 What's The One Thing We're Not Talking About That We Should Be? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I don't think we've ever had as much pushback about an upcoming guest. Why would having consensual sex with adults be controversial? Really? Come on. Come on. Like, this is our work and we recognise it's online. And if we have a big argument with somebody, like, I'm not going to go, that's not controversial. Why not monetise off it?

If I'm doing it in my free time and I'm enjoying it, it's safe, it's consensual. Why not monetize off of it? You're putting yourself at risk, my love. Do you not worry about that? That's my choice. It's my body. Do you believe in karma? Yeah. You can see where I'm going with this, right?

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No! The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com slash active cash. Terms apply. Lily Phillips, welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you for having me on. You asked to come on. I was going to say you're an unusual.

You're definitely an unusual guest for us. We have had a couple of people who do similar things to you on in the past, but I was just curious why you wanted to come and talk to us. I mean, for me, obviously, grateful me of ads. advertisement. And I love the kind of conversation you guys have. How do you mean? Well, it's a bit different to my usual podcast where, you know, I'm usually getting like hammered. I feel like you guys come up with strong counterpoints where you agree or disagree. Yeah, I think that's true. Another thing I was going to say before we kind of get into the conversation is, I don't think

we've ever had as much pushback from people about an upcoming guest. Because people who are supporters of the show, they get notified of which guests are coming up. They get a chance to ask some questions on our substack. So we posted that yesterday and like it seems like the whole internet has melted down over the fact that you're coming on. So, and it was, I have to say, my experience is it's almost entirely women that are really upset about what you do and you coming on the show, etc. Why do you think that is? Oh, I just don't think they like what I do. Yeah. Why? I guess.

I mean, I don't really know because I don't understand it, but people find me controversial or, I don't know, disgusting what I do. And so they don't like the idea of you guys kind of promoting it. We're not promoting it. But, I mean, indirectly. Yes. Well, we're talking to you, which I think is very different from promoting it,

because we don't have to agree with someone to talk to them. And we do that very often when we talk to people. But you mentioned as we were getting ready that you don't think what you do is controversial. No. You're well known for sleeping with 100 men and 101 men, to be factually, in one day. You don't think that's controversial. Why would having consensual sex with adults be controversial? That's a very good reframe of what I'm saying.

But you're not just having sex with consenting adults. You're having sex with 101 of them in order to get attention online. You can see why that might be controversial, surely. Well, it's not exactly attention online, you know, it's my work. And also I wanted to explore my kinks. And so that is why I did it. And I personally don't think that is controversial or, you know, outrageous to do. Really?

Come on. Come on. Come on. Like, this is our work and we recognise it's online. And if we have a big argument with somebody, like, I'm not going to go, that's not controversial. Do you know what I mean? I just don't think it is controversial. What, like doing porn, having sex now?

Look, I would disagree with that, first of all. It is controversial to have sex on camera. It still is. It's become less controversial with the rise of only fans and camming and all the rest of it. But to do 101 guys, you know it's controversial because otherwise, why would it get such a massive backlash? You must have expected that. I knew people would be, like, disgusted by it.

And that's why I knew it would be quite a big thing to do. I mean, I didn't think it'd go as big as it did. But, you know, I knew it would do well because people rather find it disgusting or they want to watch it. Why do you think people find it disgusting? I just think because you don't hear of many people doing it. You know, I don't think your average woman is going through two guys a night, never mind 100. Well, that's true. But the average woman is not climbing Mount Everest either, but that's not controversial or disgusting, right?

So why do you think they find it disgusting? I think it's probably just the, yeah, the amount of guys. Yeah. Well, there's something about promiscuity, particularly for women, that tends to trigger that reaction, I suppose, right? Yeah, well, I mean, people are, it's drilled into them that, you know, they should get married, have very few sexual partners.

And if you don't, then, you know, you're vile, you're, I don't know, a slot. basically. You know, I was talking to a good mate of both of us who was actually a porn star, and she was actually saying that those types of extreme acts in porn tend to be done by performers who tend to be quite damaged. And normally with those types of girls, it's actually a reflection of what's going on on the inside. Would you agree with that normally? I think that's such a common misconception is that, you know, I'm damaged in some kind of way. or have some kind of trauma.

And I think it's because people just can't believe that a girl who has a good education, has a good family, hasn't been through trauma, wants to have a lot of sex and wants to be a slut, and wants to do porn and stuff like that. I think people just can't wrap the heads around it and people don't like to think that that could be true because they don't want it to happen to their daughter.

But you say it's a lot of times. sex, but there's a difference between having a lot of sex and an extreme act, which is, let's be fair, what this is, Lily. I mean, the thing is I've always had these, I guess, if you want to call it, extreme acts. I've always, in university, before I did this for work, had a lot of sex with a lot of guys and girls, for that matter. But the act of recording it, the act of putting it out there, the act of monetising it, that makes it's something very different, doesn't it?

I mean, for me, it was just an extension of what I was already doing. I love being creative. And why not monetize off it? If I'm doing it in my free time and I'm enjoying it, it's safe, it's consensual. Why not monetize off of it? It's kind of like the perfect scenario, doing what you love and making money from it. It's interesting you say that because when you talk about it, I'm like, well, that's kind of, in some ways, that's what we do. Like, I was arguing with people online before we started smoking in the street, right?

So when you say that, it sort of makes sense. But I think it's quite difficult for people to wrap the heads around what you do, actually. And, you know, it's something I've been thinking about knowing that we were going to interview because I think a lot of people have that visceral reaction on the one hand. On the other hand, I think it's also fair to say that women like you, women like the way you describe yourself, let's say like that, have always existed throughout history. They've always been women who are not just hypersexual, but I think it's a trait called social sexuality, which is about how many partners you're comfortable having. And perhaps

exhibitionist, is that fair to say? Yeah, 100%. And just like attention hall, if you want to call me that, honestly. Right. So I've heard you talk about the fact that you enjoy what you do. Sorry to be so, like, I don't know why I'm apologising. This is the first time I've ever seen him apologize. You can be as vulgar as you like. Well, I guess what I'm actually you're genuinely getting that is like when you say you like you enjoy doing it do you mean that you orgasm when you're having sex with these guys i think i enjoy the act i enjoy the performance i i i love the fact that i'm getting other people off it's it's more than just like orgasming to me and one of the things you you talked about as well is that um like you you've said that you would do

it's not about money for you right so correct me if i'm wrong but when you first started, you weren't doing anything as kind of out there's what you're doing now. And you were still making 10, 12, 20 grand a month, right? Yeah. Now you're making more than that. But presumably you could probably still live a pretty good life on less than what you're making now. So what is the, a lot of people will be wondering, like, why do you want to do this? Is it the attention that you're really after?

I think it's the fact that I love porn and I wanted to take it to the next level. or, you know, I want to explore things that I was already doing outside of filming anyway. And for me, I also, the reason why I do these, like, kind of like, you guys want to call them extreme acts, is, you know, I want to kind of push the boundaries of porn and see new stuff, do stuff that people haven't done before. And I want to be like a legend in the game. That is kind of, you know, where I want to take things. Because? Because that is what I aspire to be. I really look up to, you know, the women who have been in. porn for, I don't know, 10, 20 years, like Angela White and things like that. And they are, you know, legendary. It really looked up to him. So to you, this is like a profession that you, like Michael

Jordan was the greatest basketball player all the time. You want to be the greatest. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm sure for Michael, Michael Jordan, did you just say, I was sure it wasn't about the money because I bet when he, you know, got up to playing basketball full time that he was earning enough anyway. Yeah. So, you know, why taping server and keep working hard? is just to be a legend in the game. I think the thing that people find very difficult, Lily, when we're having this discussion,

is you hear a number of ex-porn stars being interviewed, and a lot of them will say, look, I got into porn because I came from a damaged background. I was sexually abused by whoever it may have been from a very young age. I really had no other options, and I went into it. When people hear your story, it sounds very incongruous. It doesn't sound like you're telling the truth. Yeah, I mean, I can show you focus from my childhood and things like that.

Let's not do that. Well, I understand that that is, like, widely put out in the media that a lot of girls have had, you know, a bad experience in the industry. I think it is because it is that is pushed out a lot on social media. To be fairly, if you look at a lot of porn stars, the suicide rates amongst them are incredibly high. Yeah, yeah. And I do believe a lot of people going to porn,

because they have to. You know, they need to pay for this, that, you know, they start working on the streets because they have to. But very luckily, in my position, I really didn't. And I think nowadays that is the same for a lot of other girls because of, because back then, when you went into it, you know, you'd have a pimp, you'd be kind of forced into doing stuff. It's just a lot different from what we have now

where everything is done in your own terms. You're in control. Yeah. So on that very subject, it's interesting thinking about it from that perspective because you do have much more control than a porn star would have done 10, 15 years ago. But are you safe? Like when I watched the documentary, for example, right? So you were alone in a room with 100 guys at a time, one at a time.

Like, are you in the position to say no if you wanted to stop at some point? Yeah, I had security outside of the door and things. like that. So definitely. And I guess the other thing that Francis was kind of bringing up there from a safety perspective is a lot of, I read a lot of articles from feminists about your case or you at the time that you went kind of very big. One of the things that they were all saying is like it's not possible that she's consciously made this decision. Like she's just doing whatever the society has created the environment of which she's.

can profit from this, but she'll regret this later. Do you worry that that might be the case? Definitely not. I've done this now for, well, I've done, obviously been in the industry now for five years. And I think if I was starting to regret it, I'd start to regret it already. And also, I've always kind of done stuff like this. I've always been a little bit crazy. So I think it's just in my nature. Yeah. Well, do you know what? There's something else that you said that a lot of people were freaking out about it. And I just thought, actually, it makes quite a lot of sense to me, which was like, you talked about how the likes and the attention online is more addictive than money or anything like that, right? Yeah, yeah. I know, like, doing what we do,

basically anyone who has a content channel has to grapple with the reality that all of that stuff is very addictive. And I know I have friends who, like, you're going for dinner and all they're doing is checking their phone every two minutes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, even my friends who have, you know, 2,000 followers on TikTok if one of their TikTok does a little bit better, performs better than others, they're getting a bit of a rush out of it. It's true. I think it happens

in mostly everyone's case on social media. Lily, you talked in the documentary that you had quite a romantic ideal of sex. And you wanted it to, you know, you had this maybe idealised idea of what sex is and what it meant. To go from that to where we are now,

that's a big change. What happened? I think in my head I had made sex out to be this very romantic act. It can be. It definitely can be. But I made it out to be, you know, this very something you should keep safe. And, you know, I'm a, like, I'm very innocent and I need to protect that. And I will be, I think a lot of people make out that you,

you will be damaged if you have more than one sexual partner and things like that. And that was very much in my head when I was younger. And yeah, when I started to have sex, I kind of realized that it wasn't like that for me. I found enjoyment from having sex and it wasn't just about, you know, making love and things like that. So, yeah, I guess that's what kind of changed it, just having lots of sexual partners.

Is it because you didn't feel as great an emotional connection as you thought you would do? I think it's because I just really enjoyed it and I enjoyed it with lots of different partners. And I don't think I'm some innocent thing that needs to be bubble wrapped and can't be used. Do you think part of the reason that people have a reaction to what you do is partly because you're not the stereotypical woman. But most women, when they have sex, there tends to be some kind of emotional connection there. So to have someone like you, who is the kind of opposite of that, people struggle to get their heads around it, don't they? Yeah, yeah. And I think that and I think maybe the way I look is a little bit different to what you would put as like a stereotypical porn star.

How do you mean? I think a lot of people struggle to believe that this is me because a lot of the way. women who work in sex work, maybe have the fake boobs or look a little bit more sexualized. I tend to dress a bit more modest and do my makeup a bit more hair, natural, stuff like that. And I think people just like really struggle to wrap their heads around that. Because also as well, you spoke about the first time you got shown porn. I think you were 11 years old. Yeah.

I mean, look, we can talk about pornography and I'm sure we're. we will further down the interview, but that can't be a good thing, surely. I mean, I think it happens with a lot of people. Yeah, what time, how old were you when you first encounter porn? I probably would have been about 11. And you guys aren't raging porn stars having sex with 100 men, are you? How do you know? You haven't.

I kept it on the down, though. You haven't seen the paywall phone. Yeah, exactly. It's a good point. It's a good point. I would argue that in my day, God, I sound old. It's slightly different because it was magazines.

Yeah. It was like the magazine that everyone shared. Yeah. And depending where you were in the status group, it depends where you got the magazine. But anyway, let's not focus on that. But it's a kind of different thing because it's not showing the physical act.

It's not showing extreme act. It depends on the magazine. Yeah. But normally these magazines were the ones that you bought in news agents. My point is, I think Lily's point, which I do agree with is a lot of people encounter porn very young.

Not a lot of them become Lily Phillips. Is that kind of the same? Yeah. Yeah. But I guess my point is, is that a lot of the pornography that people are being shown, particularly now, tends to be more extreme or hardcore, whatever else. Was that your experience when you were shown? Or was it just, you know, basically page three or whatever it may have been? It was a friend, a sleepover, showed it to all of us on a laptop. And I think we just scrolled it for a second. I don't particularly remember watching any kind of videos or, you know, like masturbating to it or anything like that. it was more just like something that my friend showed and then I became aware of. Do you see where, I guess, like, put it bluntly, do you see where Francis' questions are coming from in the sense of like,

here you were, I'm using inverted comments for people who are listening, normal, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You thought sex is for like me loving relationship, blah, blah, blah, suddenly fast forward a few years, you're sleeping with 100 guys on camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, not on camera, but for content, so to speak, right? like even if you don't think there's anything wrong with that, which maybe some people do, there's still quite a transition to people to get your head around.

Do you see what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I think it's just, I just became more sexual liberal and kind of realized what sex meant to me. Mm-hmm. Which is just the enjoyment of lots of pirates. Yeah, yeah, definitely. When we first dipped our toes into the world of trigonometry merch, we thought, how hard can shipping be? Turns out, very.

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I mentioned what we mentioned, the documentary. How do you feel about the documentary? Oh, it's tough because to me, I don't think that was like a true depiction of the day. Yeah. But obviously, it did so well. Like, for me and my business, it did amazing. but also I wish there wasn't a video

me crying on camera on the internet but yeah it's a rock and hard place so you didn't think it was representative as kind of what you're saying I mean I'm not I'm not bashing that documentary because I think that's not what I'm trying to get at like the documentary is a piece of content

it's very good it's well made it got a lot of attention for you so what I'm curious about is do you feel that it represents how you experienced that day. That's what I'm getting there. It just highlighted all the bad parts of the day and none of the good parts. There were really good moments in that day

that I really enjoyed and that wasn't shown or highlighted. And that's not on Josh or anything like that that they're trying to make a good documentary. And I think that was tough for me because that is not how I left feeling about that day. But obviously then the documentary came out about a month later and I was

like, oh God, like everyone's thinks it was really bad and I'm really traumatized from it and I'm like, what is going on? So you're not? No, because that, you know, after that day, I just, you know, went about my month, went about my week kind of thing. And then the documentary came out and I was like, oh, God, like, you know. And I think partly it's because a lot of stuff got clipped and we know from personal experience, people will often clip things in a way that's not quite represented. For example, I thought that I, again, I read in a lot of articles about, oh, Lily Phillips, she says this, I'm only good for one thing because there's that moment where you're making him a cup of tea. And you just make what I

think is a self-deprecating joke. Like a back-hander joke. It's just a joke, right? There's exactly the sort of joke that Francis and I would make about ourselves in all kinds of different situations. So I did think you were kind of slightly misrepresented by those clips. On the other hand, what I really wanted to ask is you, there is a scene when you're done with the 101 men, when you do look emotionally shaken and you are crying, as you say. why were you crying? Why were you shaken? The thing is, is that obviously you guys didn't get to see that it was like a 14-hour day of a very exhausting long day. It was hard. It was hard. There was some, and not just,

I'm not talking about the dicks were big. It was like just, it was exhausting because we were like, oh, are we going to make it to 100? You know, we having to get more guys in. And then I'm stressed about, like, are the guys having a good time? And now I'm going to have to cut down their time because they're getting too much time and people are being awkward about it. And like people didn't see that, the like mental stress of the day. And it wasn't due to like, you know, being abused or anything.

It was just more like it was a hard day at work. And I think when you have a hard day at work on a porn set, people then paint that as you're being abused and stuff like that. And it's like, no, this is just like any other regular job. You know, you have a bad day. It doesn't mean you're going to quit and you hate it. It's just you had a bad day. Well, and that kind of makes sense to me because, you know, we've done lots of live shows and other things like that.

They can be very stressful. And if it's been 14 hours nonstop and it's very intense, I do understand that. But the reason I was asking is you do say, like, this isn't for the regular girls or something. Correct me if I'm misquoting. And I think a lot of people got the impression from that that maybe in that moment you were starting to realize that this was something that was. having a detrimental impact on you, not in the sense of this is an intense job, but in the sense of like the job I'm doing is not actually healthy for me. That's kind of where I think people came away from it.

I mean, people love to read into things and stuff like that, and they love to paint their own picture on it. But that is truly how I felt just exhausted and hard. You know, that's kind of how I depict it to the day. So you didn't feel, I'm just asking to clarify. Again, Lily, if it sounds like we're having to go, That's not the intention. But you didn't feel like, oh, wow, this was more than I thought.

Or like, wow, that's a lot of dicks. No, no, no. I definitely had, like, bit enough more than I could chew with the time limit and everyone go. Because in real time, everyone was going one by one by one by one. Like, a lot of other girls who do this kind of stuff are doing groups. So, of course, you're getting through people so much quicker. But, you know, people are coming in. You having to ask them to take off their trousers.

you having a conversation with them. Like, I had bitten off more than I had two, definitely. But it wasn't, when I said that comment, it wasn't due to like, oh, I really regret this. I'm really ashamed. I wish I hadn't done this. It was just like, I wish I'd done it differently. The admin was overwhelmed.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I watched a documentary, one of the things I kept thinking about, and I was looking at these guys, and I ended up judging them more than I judge you, And I was like, what type of bloke would do this?

Was there like a commonality between these guys? Was there? No, not all. I mean, I don't know why the media loves to paint it out there. It's like black or Muslim men and only come to these things. It's not all true. Wait, no, no, I know that's not what you guys said. But I've seen...

Is that people who are saying? Black and Muslim men? I've seen in the media people love to paint it as like a real black or Muslim men of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What, is there some truth to that? No, not all. But that's what I'm saying. There's no truth to that.

It's Harry, Tom, Dick and Joe, you know what I mean? Like every kind of race. Yeah, yeah. Every kind of age. 18 plus, obviously. Just anyone, anyone turned up. So there was no, all these people were, were they fans? Were they all fans pretty much?

Yeah, I think a lot of them would probably follow me on social media. That's probably where they got the invite from. And because, you know, it takes a certain type of bloke. I can imagine there's a lot of lads who would do that on. a whim and being like, oh, look what I'm doing boys tomorrow. But to follow through with that and then queue up and then stand there in a queue and then go and perform. I mean, that's quite a tough ask. Yeah, I mean, it was a long process as well. You had to send your photo ID into the phone number. You had to then, you know, send in like confirmation of this and then

the address, the time slot. So there was a lot of thought that went into the guys who came. It wasn't just, you know, a whim kind of decision. So, yeah, I can imagine. Because there was that moment in the documentary where quite a lot of men dropped out, which is understandable because it's a whim. And then, and please clarify if what I'm saying is incorrect, it was then hinted at in the doc that actually there was a lot of people who were coming to perform who didn't have an STI check. Yeah. Is that accurate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that not worry? Does that not worry? you, Lily, that you're exposing yourself to really quite severe illnesses? I mean, obviously, I wore a condom, and so we were very careful with stuff like that.

And not really. I mean, I think this is probably some of the safest sex you can have in terms of talking about what you want to do before, talking about, you know, consent and stuff like that, and then wearing a condom, like, if you were to go on a one-night stand, you know, people love to pick at this that it's really unsafe, but when a lot of people have a one-night stand, you know, they're not consenting, they're not sober, they're not wearing a condom,

like, so I think it was a very safe day, yeah. Look, I agree with you at the point of the one-night stand, but I think on most porn sets, in fact, if it's not all, performers have to be tested, don't they? Because these are people who, you know, have a lot of sex.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you don't know who these men are. That's really risky behaviour, isn't it? I mean, definitely going forward, that's what we'll do is get, well, that's what we have done, is get everyone tested. It's just tricky. In England, we have such little free testing. Obviously, you can pay to get a full border test,

but it's around like £300, 400,000 if you don't want to get a full border test, which is a lot to ask for from guys who are having a two-minute shag. Is it, like, because, how can we? I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to sound like a dad here, which, you know. Which is not. Which I'm not. But it's also, you're putting yourself at risk, my love.

Do you not worry about that? I mean, I'm on prep and stuff like that, so I couldn't have caught HIV. But yeah, I tried to be as safe as possible. Because when it came through, when I was seeing in the dock, I was actually worried for you. And I was thinking to myself, you know, I understand you're young. And look, when I was 23, I didn't think about consequences. I didn't do what you did. But, you know, I had serious problems with Alcon, whatever else.

So I get it. I get risk-taking behavior. I get thrill-seeking behavior. I guess my worry when I saw you was that I was thinking, you're not thinking about the long-term consequences, particularly when it comes to something like this. Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a learning curve. Like I said, like I said, like on the day.

it was quite stressful. So I was like, yeah, bring more men in, you know. So, yeah, no, definitely a learning curve. And so I guess how do you make a balance? Because look, you're very savvy. You're obviously very good at what you do. People like you, people follow you. How do you keep that balance between making money, notoriety,

but also protecting yourself and keeping yourself safe? Because when you look at it, that is actually the most important thing. isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, what as in like safety on the vents or like... Safety on events, but also safety moving on, because there's going to be a time in your life. I hope when you've made enough money you don't want to do this, maybe you want a family. Yeah, yeah. Is there going to be a time like that? That's an assumption. Yeah, I would love a family. I would love to get married. Definitely want kids. But for me, I don't find what I've done shameful, so I don't think, you know, I'm not scared to have kids or anything like that.

It's interesting you say that because I had my son a few years ago, and it's amazing. Everyone should have kids if they want to are capable of doing it, etc. All the fucking usual caveats. Kids are great, is what I've heard. We have to watch everything you can say now because someone's going to go ahead. Anyway, so kids are great, right? And the moment my wife got pregnant, I started to see the world completely differently in many different ways. And one of the ways was like I started tweeting.

completely differently because I was like, I don't think I want my son to see me like slagging this person off on Twitter in this way. Yeah. Right. So you've got a somewhat bigger issue there, I would put it to you, right, with your kids in terms of the stuff that you were doing, which is going to live there forever. Yeah. You might be okay with it, but do you consider the possibilities that your kids might not. I mean, for me, I will always bring my kids up to learn that that sex isn't a shameful act, and especially not to have it on camera or whatever everyone does it. I will always bring them up, you know, that that is what I've done and that that's my choice,

it's my body. So, no, because I think that is just how I will teach them to be, not so judgmental as people are. Well, the thing is, I'm not being judgmental. I'm just telling you my experience. And the idea that you're going to teach your kids to be a certain way is not matching my experience, exactly. Like, my wife and I are pretty good at teaching him a particular way, but he also has a mind of his own because he's an independent person. And kids that you might have later, they will also be independent people who have their own concerns and their own worldviews. Like, you're probably somewhat different from your parents, right? Like, your mom probably doesn't

do what you do. And she might have a different. perspective on it. Do you see what I'm saying? So have you thought about the fact that if you do want children, their perception of your career, it may not necessarily be something that you control and it almost certainly will not be positive. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I like to think by then that we have gotten past the fact that sex work is shameful and disgusting. Do you think that's likely? Yeah, I do. I really do. I think with the rise of Only fans and the fact that we're having a lot more conversations about sex work. I do think that is high likely in, I don't know, 20 years or so. Do you think, it's interesting about Onlyfans, because I'm very conflicted about it, Lily,

and let's see if we can make sense of it together. On the one hand, I think it's far better for girls like you who want to go and perform and want to be performers, and you seem very together and very business like, fine. I do worry that easy access for 18-year-old girls barely out of childhood, not really aware of the choices that they're making, certainly not long-term, think their skin, oh, here's a way I can make a few quid, pay my way for university, college, whatever it may be,

and then not aware of the long-term implications of their choices, because you can say, and you can say, for instance, look, you know, I want to get to a place where people aren't discriminated against, fine, that's very noble, but that ain't the world we live in. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's extremely important that young girls are educated on what this job is and what it means to do this job. Before I even did this, I thought about it for six months and I think it's really important.

I have so many girls come to me and be like, should I start only fans? Like, what do I do? And the first thing I say is like, please have a full thing about it because it really does change your life. It changes the way everyone looks at you. Everyone treats you. I probably don't even know the way it's going to change my life. in the future. But it is huge, it's huge. And yeah, I think it's just really important that we educate young people on that. And so this is your opportunity. Like what's wrong with doing

OnlyFans? Well, obviously the shame that comes around it, whether that's friends or family member, from friends or family members, the fact that you probably won't be able to do another job after this, you know, I couldn't go work in a school or anything like that. Um, there's, There's a lot more things wrong with it. Just the dangers of the industry, being unsafe, you know. How are you on safe? As in working with like a performer that might not be safe or stuff like that. You know, you might have a bad experience, which is obviously really detrimental.

Just like the social construct on social media, sorry, the whole of that. Like, it's online forever. There's so much wrong with the job. Sorry, I could go on forever. Please do. The reason you say is like you say the girls contact you and they say and they ask you and you are like really have a careful thing. And I think this is, you know, in the spirit of that conversation, this is a good opportunity for you to actually lay out the things that people should weigh up. Yeah, yeah. If someone's watching this and thinking, well, I might start an only fan. Yeah, yeah. What should they carefully think about? So you mentioned family and friends. Yeah. Pretty much anyone who knows who you are will treat you differently potentially. You might be working with someone who's unsafe. You mean, like, physically? Yeah, yeah, as in, you know, you might have a bad experience and stuff like that.

Okay. The money side of things, not everyone is successful. Well, almost everyone is not successful. Is that fair to say? Yeah, well, yeah, those are hard. I think on Only fans, I can't remember. It's like $1. Yeah, it's like $100 a month is like the average earnings.

Right. And so a lot of people aren't successful. But you're still getting all the same negatives, right? Yeah, exactly. for $100 a month. Exactly. And even if you're like a faceless creator, people will always find out like that they'll always find out

and just like the internet is forever. As well in Only fans, you have to promote yourself online. Like there's no other way to go about it. And that is hard and because then you can't be like secretive about it. Why do you have to promote yourself online? Why can't you just do it? Only fans? Because the whole point of only fans is it only works if you self-promote.

If people know who you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you can't have a successful account if you didn't, if no one knew about it. Okay, so there's no... You could make the best porn in the world, but if no one knows about it then... No one's going to watch it. Yeah. So there's no algorithm.

There's no self-discovery thing. No, no, it's not like TikTok or anything like that where people can find you. It's purely based on from your social media. Anything else on the negatives while we're on it? I'm trying to think. Like body image. What do you mean? As in just the way you put yourself out there, like, I'm always thinking, God, would I make a bit more money if I had bigger boobs?

You know, if I had big boobs or, you know, just huge stuff like that. People will always speak about how your body looks as well. You will always be sexualized. There's so much. And do you think, you know, talking with pressure of like the bigger boobs, and stuff. Do you think that's partly why you're doing these kind of 100 man things, et cetera, because the incentive structure is there to encourage you to do more stuff that's kind of out there, that's attention grabbing. Is that fair to say? I think that, I think that is fair to say,

but I think that is the thing with everyone who works, you know, whether you do YouTube or stuff like that, it's always a push to kind of do more, do something bigger, do something that people haven't seen before, do something that's going to do well. I think that's definitely true. And those of us who do what we do, we have to have an internal filter of like, yeah, we could do this, but we're actually not going to. Do you know what I mean? Like, we're not going to get the caboos. Right? Do you see what I mean? But the incentive structures are very perverse in all our industries. I definitely get that. So that, is that it on the negatives, would you say? Yeah. I'm trying to think if anything else. Yeah. Yeah. And also people, yeah, I mean, I think I said this before with friends and family, but no matter, you know, if I'm a sister, I'm, you know, a friend or anything like that, I'm still an only fan sex worker. Like, that is the thing that comes before everything else. Like, you know, outside of my worker, I'm a very regular girl, take my dog on a walk, you know, I do this, go to my friend's birthday parties, but I'll always be known as, like, a sex worker.

And I suppose as well, the one thing is, is, it's kind of, it's dangerous because you are more likely to get stalkers. Is that not true? So true. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, people have, what is them, what is them relationships called on the internet? Parassocial. Yeah, yeah. And especially with, like, obviously, sex workers, people really think they're in this kind of, like, relationship with you. And it can be really dangerous.

And is that something that concerns you or that worries you? Have you put things in place? You know what? I haven't really put a huge amount in place. I mean, obviously, I don't post where I am or anything like that, but I've had, like, letters through my door, like where I live and stuff like that which can, you know, be a bit freaky. But there's not much to do about other than, you know, don't post where you are online and things like that.

I understand that. I think what's really interesting, Lily, is that, you know, I worry sometimes that we're in this culture, and I take a point about not wanting to, you know, demonise sex and sex workers. But I also think as well that a lot of girls are now seeing Onlyfans as a trivial choice. and I think that's a pretty dangerous way to be.

Sorry, I don't understand what that means. Okay, so they don't give it the seriousness it actually deserves. Okay, yeah, 100%. Yeah, couldn't agree more. And do you sometimes worry, Lily, by what you're doing, you're making it seem more appealing to those types of girls because you're earning all of this money

and you're very successful? I mean, somehow I don't think putting out a 40-minute documentary we crying on the internet is somehow making people want to do sex work. But when you look at the money involved and all the rest of it? I try to be very real. I try not to, like, flaunt too much or stuff like that.

But I do like to show off, you know, my regular day-to-day life and, you know, what it's like to, what a day in the life is like for me and things like that. But I try not to push too much on, like, earnings or things like that. What have been, and you must have seen, a very interesting side of like male sexuality doing what you do. What have you learnt about men from your job? And I'm sure this isn't going to be a compliment. Oh, how much like, oh, am I going to get in trouble saying this? How much. It's only the internet.

How much more disgusting they are than I thought they were. That sounds, in some of their, their fantasies. She looks like that, produces. Just some of the fancies I've heard about, that is never even come into my brain. You mean like fetishes and stuff, kings people are into it? Rape fantasies, things like that. And you just think, oh, my God. But I don't think that's obviously, that's not just men. But as well, how much people cheat on people.

You know, I grew up where my parents were both together, and they have always said, once you get married, you get married and that's it. and you know, you don't cheat and that just isn't a thing for me. And then growing up, you realise that how many people cheat. Sorry. No, no, there's only to be sorry, but that's not something you realise from your own work, or is it? I think you do.

From your own work. Yeah, yeah. As men are coming and having sex with you when they're in the relationship. I've never had someone out at least say that they're cheating on their partner when they're having sex. I mean, but people say it a lot when they're messaging me online. And personally, I take that as cheating. You know, if you're in bed with your misses or whatever and you're turned around having a wank and texting me or sexing me,

like I personally, if I was in a relationship, in a monogamous relationship, I wouldn't do that. Yeah. And has it made you... How has it changed your attitudes? Men are disgusting. Has it changed? Wait, wait, wait, sorry, Francis.

I'm so sorry to interrupt. Why did you think that was going to be, like, controversial saying that, that men are disgusting? think? Do you think you'll offend some of your friends? I just don't want to offend people. I don't think it's very nice and say that because probably women are probably just disgusted. I just don't know. Sadly. Women aren't nearly. There are some women who are into different stuff, but I don't think

that that's equal between men and women. And has this really changed the way that you view men? Does it? I guess a little bit, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I maybe see them as a bit weaker than I thought. Interesting. Why? I think growing up you think men are quite sure. I think I just learned a lot from my dad that he's this very strong, perfect person.

And then when you get into the world, you realize, like, they're just not. And that's not to do my dad. My dad is perfect. But you realize, like, a lot of men just aren't. And do you think it's a sexual drive that makes them weak? Not necessarily a sex drive. Just I think, I don't know.

I don't really know. Well, I think what you're encountering is that a beautiful woman who is available for sex has a lot of power over men. Yeah, maybe that's. I think that's what you're encounter. And therefore, the men that you encounter are quite weak to the thing that you're offering. Yeah. I don't really know. I've never really thought about it or anything like that or thought into it.

Yeah, well, we're asking you to think about it. Yeah. But yeah, maybe that is it, like, probably a lot more powerful than I think. I mean, female sexuality is a very powerful thing when it comes to men. But you mentioned your father and your parents. I know you've been asked this question a lot. And I noticed that initially you were kind of okay with being asked about how your parents see what you do, etc. And then I think you were doing LBC and you kind of, you seem to be less willing to talk about it.

Is something changed there? Yeah, my parents basically had a chat with me because they were getting like blasted a lot in the media. you know, the Daily Mail did like a whole article on my parents and how they're abusing me or something like that. And so they mentioned to me, you know, maybe don't talk as much about me. And I totally respect that. And as well, I think sometimes the more you talk about something, the more people can twist it. So I tried to just say last. I heard people, I don't know if it's true.

I mean, your mother is involved somehow in your business? Is that? Yeah, so to kind of wrap this up, basically. she, I can't, I don't know how to pay taxes, I'm a bit stupid like that. My mum, her, is a very, very intelligent businesswoman. She basically just helps me pay my taxes, helps me pay my staff, just little jobs like that. And obviously I pay her for it.

And then people have took this as a spunist that she manages me or has a hold of my accounts and, you know, she's exploiting me and taking money from me. I was just like, what that I have? It's so crazy how much they can just twist stuff and people run with it. And then the more people talk about, the more people believe it. It's crazy. Well, it is crazy.

And I've been on the other end of it just like, well, not just like you. I've been on that end of it as well. And it's very unpleasant. But I also think it sort of comes with the territory. Particularly if you caught a lot of controversy, you can't then be surprised. No, no, no. And it's my own fault for running my mouth about it because sometimes I get a bit, you know, you get really friendly with someone that you kind of think that you're a friend and stop.

keep child. Yeah, I've certainly made that. Yeah, don't make friends with journalists. Yes. But, you know, talking about your parents, I thought it was something interesting that you said when you were on LBC, the guy asked you whether your parents approve of what you do or something, well, how they feel about what you do.

And you're like, you wouldn't ask me this if I was a man. Yeah, yeah. And here's what I wanted to talk to you about in relation to that because I think that's true. I actually think that's true. People wouldn't ask you what your parents think about it if you're a man. Because what they would say is you are evil and disgusting if you're a man.

Because really, if you think about it, like in terms, sorry, I know it sounds harsh. I know it sounds really harsh. Here's what I mean by that. Like, the closest person I can think of in who's a man who does something similar to you or has done is Andrew Taye, right? Somehow I don't think me and Andrew Tay are similar. I know you don't. But if you think about what you do and what he does, effectively he's,

used people of the opposite sex to make content for money, right? I mean, I don't really know what Andrew Tate does. I don't, I'm not too into his universe. Yeah, well, he basically encouraged girls to do camming and I think skimmed most of the money offered or whatever. And there's an abusive quality there, whatever. But ultimately, a lot of people don't like Andrew Tate because of the message he communicates, right? And a lot of people don't like you because of the message your work communicates, right? So my point is, the, the way that people treat you, whether it's, whether it's us. Like, we've asked you some fairly tough questions, but we're, I hope we've been friendly and respectful, right? Victoria Derbyshire was friendly and

respectful. Most of the people have interviewed have been very sensitive with you. And a lot of the questions are like, well, is it because you're traumatized? Is it because you're this? With a man, people will just be like, this is your choice. You're making these choices and you're a bad person for making those choices. Do you know what I'm saying? I think to kind of, um, To kind of put me and Andrew Tate in the same thing is not the same. I mean, by the sounds of it, what he did was very exploitive of these women, which that is not what I'm doing. Are you sure?

Definitely not. No. Definitely not. So these hundred men who are coming to have sex with you because they are really happy to do it, you don't feel like genuine question. I'm not trying to put it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't feel like you're taking advantage of them.

No, no. It's a fair exchange? Yeah, yeah. I'm very open about what I do to them always. You know, you're going to come in here, you'll film for five minutes or so, and that'll be that. And, you know, you'll sign the piece of paper and da-da-da. Like, I'm very open, honest about what they're coming in there to do,

and they make that choice. You know, I will say I think that's a really important and very fair distinction. So I guess I was thinking of it more just in the context of, like, the messaging and the way you come across in public. That's all. So I think that's a very fair distinction, and you're right to correct me. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, when I've talked to male porn cells

about what they've been asked about, it's usually, you know, who's the hottest woman you've been with or what's the best pawnsar you've shagged or anything like that. What I'm saying is there's a flip side to the coin, right? I think that's what you're saying there, is totally true. But I think you would find that if you're a man sleeping with 100 people in one,

a lot of people would be way harsher with you than they are because you're a woman. I agree that they would be way harsher, not as like bubble wrap me or, you know, see, are you all right? Have you got a lot of trauma? But I do, I don't, I, I, they, sorry, they definitely wouldn't be as harsh at all. Sorry, they definitely would be more harsh, but I believe it would more be like on a kind of laddy terms of like, you know, so how did that go and da-da-da-da-da, quite like, like, hearted. You think Victoria Doppish would be like that?

But I just don't, I don't think, I don't think it'd be more as like, what kind of trauma have you heard? You know, what do you have things? No. No. Because with the guys, like, whatever you do is 100% your responsibility. Yeah. Whereas a lot of people like to pretend that what you are doing is kind of like you don't really have agency. You're not able to make your own decisions.

It was interesting. I got into a big argument when your whole thing went viral with the feminists who we've had on the show, Julie Bindle. because she wrote an article saying all the men that had sex with you should be imprisoned for torturing you. That's so stupid. Why? It's consensual sex with adults.

You know, I consented to it as well. I was very verbally consenting to it all the way through. So I think that's a really stupid take. These men come and, you know, they want to have a good time. They want to come, go, have a nice time, and that's it. I don't think it's some deeply disgusting act that people

paint it out to me. What is what have your experiences taught you about sex? Is there anything that you've changed your mind? Is there anything that you've realised? So I'm trying to think I'm trying to think if there's any probably that sex is very like energy related

and that when I'm having a good time it's usually because like our energies are aligning and we're on the same vibe if that makes sense. I know that sounds a bit hippie like but I think it's true. Do you think has it affected your ability to have sex in private? No, no, no. And is there a distinction between the two? Do you see one as work and the other as something else? I think there's definitely a distinction between like these big group sex I'm

having and, you know, a one-on-one off-camera. You know, I can be a bit uglier, not put makeup apart, you know, not have to like bend my back or make sure it were opening up to camera and they're seeing penetration or anything like that and just kind of focus more. on, you know, the actual act. And then when it's more like these big groups, you know, it's a little bit more performative, maybe I'm more like saying stuff that I wouldn't usually say if it was like one-to-one.

Do you think a lot of people would say, does it affect your ability to have connection with people? Because obviously in your private life, you know, you want kids, you want a husband, sex is about connection. Will that affect your ability to connect with one person considering what you do in your professional life? No, I don't think so. I mean, to me, I haven't dated since I've done this or anything like that.

Why not? I just choose not to. I'm very focused on my career at the minute, and I think dating is a distraction. It's so funny, so many people your age say that. I find that quite scary, actually. Because it's so mind-consuming. You know, if you kind of start to like someone,

And it's like, oh, God, is he going to text me back? It just takes up so much of my mind space that I hate it. And also it just affects my feeling so much. You know, maybe if he's texted me to say, I'm having a good day. If he doesn't, I'm not kind of thing. And also I do just really enjoy being on my own. I'm a very independent person. And also because of my job, that's a huge big factor.

Do you know what I think that's sort of the point of being alive in a way is that that rush of feeling that you get when you're, you meet someone that you really like and the connection and the talking and the love? Does that, do you not want that or you just... I still get all that connection from my friends and my family. I think people misjudge friendship connections and they're a huge part of my life. Look, I accept like friendships are very important and in many ways when you break up with a friend. When a friendship ends, it can be, if not as painful, even more painful.

But I also think that there's something fundamental that you get when you're in a partnership. ship. I just don't think I want that right now. You just don't think you want that right now. Yeah. And I think that's fair to say. I'm 23. Yeah, that's totally. I just find my wife and I got married at 20. So that's why. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why I find like young. And I see. No regrets. No. Really? I mean, there's been 20 odd years now. So if I had regrets, it would be a bit late. But I just, you can't be 40. I'm 42. No way. Yeah. She looked at a young one. Yeah. You're 402, Mike.

You look like the years. Oh, you're 40. That's young. You look great. No, thank you. But no, the point I was going to make is, I'm not talking about you specifically. We have young guys that work for us.

I just find it quite depressing that your generation seems to, for a lot of your generation. And it was true of my generation too, actually, to be fair. A lot of people are just like, oh, no incident. And I'm like, and I think it comes back to the point for Hanson-Macon, which is, I don't. know if it's true for everybody, but I certainly will say for me, it's the single most meaningful thing that I ever did. Yeah, I mean, it probably is. I mean, that's what life's all about,

like, finding love or whatever. But... Why'd you say whatever? It just sounds a bit fruiting. So, wait, wait, wait, wait. So that's fruity. So getting married to one person at 20 and being together, that's fruity. But I always... What you do, not controversial, but... Fascinating. But I also think your generation was pushed on it so much that that is the whole point of life

is to find someone, settle down, have kids and you're push into it so young when maybe you're not ready or you haven't quite found the one, you just kind of think, oh, I'll settle for this. That's totally fair. That's totally fair. But yeah, I find lots of connections in, like, friendships, and I still do have very, like, personal sex

with like guys who I have like regular sex with and stuff like that. So yeah, I do find time to enjoy myself and, you know, have that intimate time. But that intimate time is purely a physical thing for you at this point. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. Do you think there's a small part of yourself and push back? Maybe that just is almost kind of scared to go and do that next step? No.

No, because I think it will come when the time is right and this time isn't now. I'm very much like a, I'm bit of a hippie, like, very much on like feelings and what it's meant for me will be kind of thing. And so... Are you religious or spiritual? No, no. I mean, I'd say like maybe a little bit spiritual. Do you believe in karma?

Yeah, yeah. You believe in karma? Oh, God. If was that the right answer. Well, no, there's not a right answer. But I, what do you, when, sorry, when you say you believe in karma, what do you think I mean by karma? As in if you do something bad to someone, it will come back to you in some kind of way. That's one way of saying. I mean, it might be if you do something good to people, they also will come back to it in some way, right?

It's like what I would guess what I would. What you put out, you get back. In some way, right. So, you believe in karma on that basis, right? Yeah. And then, you can see where I'm going with this. right? Go on. Well, what you're doing for your work,

do you think that that might echo somehow? But I don't think what I'm doing is wrong. That's the obvious counter argument that I thought you were going to say. Yeah. So do you think that all the people, like everyone else who has a different perspective of that, who does think what you're doing is wrong?

Do you think that they're all just wrong? I think if it feels right for me, then, you know, I should do it. And I just, I don't see it as being wrong or disgusting or anything like that. And I think as well, maybe it's the community I'm in is that I know a lot of people who have in this kind of same sex and their swingers. You know, they're married, but they go out and sleep with other people and things like that. So in my world, it is quite casual. Yeah, I think it's just when I take it to the internet, that's when everyone's like, whoa, which I find this crazy.

You're taking it into mainstream society. And that's why you hear. You asked to come on a show because that's what you want, right? Let's be real. You're trying to get your niche thing into the mainstream to get more attention to promote what you do, right? Yeah, yeah. And then the mainstream goes, oh my God, this is kind of crazy, right?

That's what's happening, objectively. Yeah. So do you think that, do you see what you do, like, almost like performing a valuable service? I don't think it's necessarily a service, by I think it's just a nice act between two or a hundred people, I haven't been anyone. What I'm asking is, from the karma, exploring the calmer angle, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, what do you think the karma of what you do will be? You don't think there's anything wrong with it? No. So what would be the right karma? What would be the appropriate karma? The karma is the fact that I get backlash on the internet. I live my life very differently if I was to do this.

You know, I'm judged and it's going to be a struggle for me to find a partner. I think that is the karma. Do you think that's unfair though? Because if you think you're not doing anything wrong, then why should you suffer all these consequences? I don't think it's unfair. I'm fair, I just think that is how a lot of the population think is that they wouldn't want to settle down with someone who does what I do, which is fine. I think it's totally, totally fine, if you have that opinion. Do you think you're just built differently from the average woman, Lily?

I do. I think growing up, I realized that a lot, is that I was a lot more, like, hypersexual than a lot of my friends. And because, so how do, how do you? How do you? that manifests? I think when we were going out, I was the one who was always sleeping with people, going back with boys, going out on more dates, talking so much about sex. I remember in school, this is before we even had sex or even masturbated. I was just so obsessed with it. Like, it was so fascinating to me, and it still is.

So you think it's a, what your job is, is a product of a very high sex drive? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just find sex so interesting. It's so complex. It's like art and pleasure, and there's so much to it. Why is it like art and pleasure? Because I think you are like making art, and it's, especially, you know, when I'm filming

and I'm like producing this content, it's art to me. What, that's, because you're not the only person I've heard make this argument. I've got another friend who is a, a porn performer and she says that's her argument that we're making art what do you mean by that you know when you were like

taking I don't know if you guys take Instagram photos or we're not that old she's calling she's already laughed in my great hair mate it's all good you have a vision for how you want the content to look and what you want

to watch and what you want to see and and to make that is like making art me. Okay. So you know what's scary about this? She's talking about making content exactly the way we talk about making content. Let's be honest, right? Because this is the thing that everyone's like, oh, a little bit of the fact is like all the stuff you talk about when it comes to making content, I'm like, yeah, everyone I know who makes content is exactly like that. You know, the one point I would say about the art point is, and see what you think about this. This is art.

This is art. Look at my face. No, I would say the purpose of art is to make you feel something. It's to make you feel something. So, for instance, have you seen adolescence? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so it's brilliantly acted. It's very moving. You feel sad at certain points.

You feel anger. You feel empathy. All of these range of emotions. Whilst I would argue the pornography, its only real purpose is to arouse. Okay, tell me not. She's shaking ahead. No, this is like one thing I really get off of and love my job about is

the feedback I get from people is that, you know, I loved when you do this little thing or this point or, you know, me and my wife have started watching this together and we're now exploring doing this and I've never tried this before but this is, I want to watch it and see what it's like

and I love the feedback from it. I really like feed off that. And do you think as well, do you think we're quite repressed sex Yeah. What makes you say that? I think the older generation is. I just think it's maybe the... Why are you looking at me? Well, okay, why do you say that?

Well, when I come on to... Not that you guys have hounded me, but when I talked to more adults, not adults, not because I'm an adult, but when I talked... We're adults, I feel good about myself now. When I talk to the older generation about what I do, you know, it's... Wait, are you saying there's no... one of your generation who has similar views to... No, definitely, sorry, sorry. I just find it more common among the older generation.

A lot of the younger generation, I have people come up to me and they're like, oh, you know, I love that you're doing that and you're exploring your own body and things like that. Is that girls saying that or boy? Yeah, yeah. Girls. Yeah, yeah. Girls are saying to you, I love that you're exploring your sexuality.

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, because I do find sometimes the way that we talk about these things there is a large part of hypocrisy there in that you see people, particularly men, pointing the finger at you, going, oh, this is this and this is disgusting. It's like, mate, have you never watched porn? Yeah, yeah, that's the thing as well.

Sometimes the people who are the most oppressed and the ones who are these Christians are the ones that are watching the most rough sex you've ever seen. How do you know that? Because that's what you find. You know, when I'm mesh in some of these guys, it is usually like the ones who, I don't know, are vickers or something or another that are wanting to see you get like gang banged.

What? So the vickers contact you? Sorry. No, yeah. So like over you see on Only fans, when you get in contact with these people, it can be the people that you least expect. That's not an unheard-of story, to be fair, throughout our history. Like, it's a stereotype for a reason.

To be fair. The same with like all these gay bashing preachers in America who ended up getting caught snorting coke off a male hookas or something in the toilet. And it's like maybe if you were just a bit more open about it, then you wouldn't feel as oppressed to do the extreme. Yeah, but it's hard to be a vicar and do gang ban. It's not easy. That is not the conversation. I think that has to go in the trailer for this episode. Imagine it's a hard self.

for the congregation, mate. I reckon we should start heading over to substack where our audience get to ask you their questions. As you know, the one question we always end with is what's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be? Before Lily answers a final question at the end of the interview, make sure to head over to our substack. The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this. As someone in porn, what is the most important thing someone outside porn should know?

Are you concerned that by doing what you do, you're playing into the stereotype. that white girls are what some of these abusers called easy meat. What's the practical differences between working for yourself versus working for a studio? What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be? Oh, oh my gosh. I was thinking about this. You know when you said at the start, I was like, let me try and think of something now. And then I just was like, oh, what are we?

It doesn't have to be anything. It's just something you think people don't actually talk about enough. The Bukakis are really good for your skin. Yes, exactly. And this is what, before we go to Sub-Sag, this is actually what I was going to ask you about, because all the stuff about you sleeping with whoever you want, I'm a liberal in that sense, like people should have sex with whoever they want. I'm very relaxed about it, genuinely.

However, you did this come-walk thing, which I'm going to explain for people, you have people come on your face and then you walk around in public. Do you not think that that is where you actually. crossing the line into like you don't know who's looking at you there that's a bit far isn't it i mean i'll be honest it was just like a little street quite excluded yeah but and i don't think people sorry by that point not to get quite vulgar by that point it got quite watery and i don't think by that point people would even understand what it was yes but do you do you see my point though yeah no i i understand that i understand that but it was just a fun little

Well, I'm sorry for ruining all the fine. I just thought that does. Have you never done something a little bit cheeky that maybe you shouldn't have? I have. I have. No, I have. You know when you're like, a day to go, like, run all that street naked? No, I've never done that.

No. What? Are you saying I'm weird? No, you know if you're at a party or something, having some drinks? Not that anyone dared me to do that. This is why I think you don't understand the difference between men and women. If I ran down the street naked, that would be a sex cry. and I'd be arrested.

When you do it, it's celebrating and you get lots of money. That's the difference between men and women. Well, I just think people take things so seriously these days. Yes, but if you walk around the street in public would come on your face, I do see why they might take it seriously. Yeah, no, I can understand why I got back on that. That's fine. No, I get it.

Was there a little bit of provocation on your part thinking if I put this out, this is going to wind a few people up? No, no, it's a thing people do in porn. It's called Come Walk, sorry. It's an actual thing. Like it's a fetish. It's a fetish? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

See, this is a thing about sex. It's just like whenever you think that you know everything, it's just, right, people, men are this, all right, okay. It's not just men. Yeah, like, I wasn't the first person to do it. It's very, um... Can we ask you not to do that anymore? Yeah.

Excellent. All right. Head on over to Substack where we ask Lily your questions. Are you, like, creating a false perception of women and therefore creating a situation? other women suffer the effects of your action. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart?

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