TRIGGERnometry - NBA Star: Forced Out For Speaking Up - Enes Kanter Freedom

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

SPONSORED BY: ATHLETIC GREENS. Get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to https://athleticgreens.com/triggernometry/ Enes Kanter Freedom is a professional basketball player who last played for the Boston Celtics in the NBA. He was raised in Turkey and moved to the United States as a teenager. A center, Kanter played for five NBA teams during his eleven year career and represented the Turkish national team in international play between 2008-2015. He is an outspoken activist as regards the human rights violations of various dictatorships. Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube:  @xentricapc   Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. 00:00 Intro  01:21 Enes Kanter’s Background 04:43 What Was it Like in the NBA? 06:44 What Does it Take to Make it in the NBA? 09:14 The Pressure of Elite Sport 13:01 How Enes Deals with Success 19:42 Sponsor Message: Athletic Greens 21:15 What Makes Top Level Athletes so Special? 27:10 Speaking Out about Turkey 36:44 How a Platform Provides a Sense of Duty 40:02 Speaking Out about China 43:27 "Take Off Your Shoes" 50:03 Is it Wrong to Bring Politics into Sport? 51:53 Did Enes Want to Fight the NBA? 54:56 BLM in the NBA 1:02:42 Does Enes Have Any Regrets? 1:04:05 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You criticize China, you criticize Nike, you're not going to play basketball every game. You pissed off the Turkish president. But this wasn't enough, right? Because you then had to piss off the Chinese Communist Party as well. Tell us about that. And the more I studied, the more I realized, wow, this is just crazy. And no one have a courage to talk about this issue. So I was like, from now on, I'm going to talk about everything theaters.

Because I was seeing the hypocrisy, you know? So BLM and everything was for them, it was just PR. I asked them one simple question. I was like, put yourself in their shoes. If your mother, if your sister, if your daughter wasn't ghost concentration, in camps, getting tortured and rape every day, would you still pick money and business over your morals, values, and prisoners? They usually turn around and live there.

Every organization and CEO or companies has been bought by someone. Bad Arthur. Hello and welcome to Trigonometry on the road from the USA. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishen. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our brilliant guest today is a former NBA star and now activist. Ennis formerly Kant and Now Freedom, welcome to Trigonometry.

Thank you for having them. Listen man, thank you so much for coming. You're fasting. You just got off a plane. So we're grateful for your time. I appreciate that. I was actually a big fan of yours when you were playing in the NBA, but a lot of our audience who are not that into sport may not know who you are.

So tell us your story. What's your journey through life? You're born in Turkey? I'm actually born in Switzerland. You're born in Switzerland. I won't say anything else. You tell us the story. So my father is a scientist and he was doing his master in Switzerland and that's where I'm born.

And I literally stayed there for maybe nine months. I wanted to, I wish I stayed a longer so I could just speak another language but came to Turkey, I grew up in east side of a city called Van. I don't know if you guys ever heard that before or not. It's a beautiful town, beautiful city. You know, my whole life actually,

when I was growing up, I wanted to be a soccer player because I mean, it's Europe, it's the number one sport in my country. So I was like, you know what, let me just be a soccer player but I was too tall, too slow for it, you know? So they were just keeping me a goalie. I was like, you know what, I'm just going to, I'm done. I'm done with this sport.

And a lot of my friends were like, you know, you're like the tallest one in a school. Why don't you just stop playing basketball? And actually my family did not want me to play basketball. They were all about education. I remember, you know, my, I gave a promise to my dad. I was like, listen, son, I want you to be a good student before being a good basketball player. So I want you to focus on school first because it's not guaranteed that you're going to make it.

You know, there are millions of kids out there trying to make it to NBA. So it's not a promise that you're going to make it. So focus on basketball and by the same time school. So that was the biggest reason I came to America as a teenager. So I could just go to school and play basketball at the same time. And so you ended up coming here. And tell us like, were you just naturally talented? Or did you have to work your butt off to get in the end?

Both. You have to. I mean, yeah, I want to, well, in, so I'm sure you guys know Fanabacha. Yes, absolutely. Yes, it was one of the biggest, you know, the club team in Turkey, so I was playing for them. But when I was 16, I was literally playing against, you know, those guys who are like 30-35s, you know. So in Turkey there's no schools, you know, you only go to club teams and you focus on, you know,

just making your team better, it doesn't matter, you're 16, you're 18, you're 20, you're 20, you're 20, if you're good enough, then you can play with guys who are 30-35, you know. So that made me a tougher player. But coming here, in high school, I was literally going against kids who are like, you know, we just were kids, literally kids. So playing against this grown man's than playing against kids, I was like, you know what, this is just too easy. So in high school, I was one of the best player in animation.

And then I got, you know, I committed and signed with the University of Kentucky. I believe the best basketball program in the nation. I went there for one year. Then I got drafted by Utah Jazz. Wow. So you got drafted by the Utah Jazz. And what was it like playing NBA? You know, so my first regular season game was against Lakers, against Kobe Bryant at Steppleston.

Oh, that's awesome, man. So I grew up as a Lakers fan. Yeah. So playing against Kobe for the first time ever, Frontal Steuple Center, 20,000 people. I was like, I remember Coach called my name. I'm sitting on the bench and I'm walking, right? In the game, I'm like, my knees are shaking.

I'm getting thirsty. My knees are shaking. I'm like, what's going on? One of my teammates missed a shot. I got the offense a rebound and I was about to finish. They found me. Yeah. So I'm in the free throw line and I see Paul Gossol.

I see Andrew Bynum. And I see Kobe was waiting for me to shoot a free throw. Oh, wow. These are like three legendary players. Exactly. Yeah. So there are 20,000 people are booming. I was like, oh my God.

So I like, I spin the ball. I'm taking a couple dribbles. I'm going to shoot. My hands, I can feel, I can see that my hands are shaking. I took a shot, I missed. And everybody was like, yay, whatever. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't know if I can do this. So the second shot, I'm like, okay, I took the shot, I made it.

I was like, this is going to be my life from now, so I better get used to it. So at that moment, I'm like, just start playing. And that game, we end up losing by 30 points. Kobe ended up scored on 40 points. And it was a very tough game for us. So it was my welcome back to the league moment. Yeah. Welcome back, welcome to the league moment. So, you know, after that, I was just like, you know,

just practice hard and try to do my best to just be one of those players. And what does it take to become a professional athlete, but more specifically an MBA athlete? Do you need a special mindset? You know, everybody obviously talking about the mindset and the practice. I feel like to all the kids, actually are asking me is if you want to become a basketball player, you have to live like an NBA player because not only practice in two or three, it's just not enough. You have to eat well,

sleep well, go to sleep early, be disciplined, but you have to be dedicated. And I think the mental toughness is the most important part in if you're playing basketball, especially NBA. Because now with all the social media and Twitter and Instagram, I mean, you may be, one important shots. Like the whole city, whole state of just like is destroying you. I remember in some of the

playoff games, right? I mean, you cannot play good every game. So I remember in some of the playoff games, I mean, if I had a bad game, I was like didn't want to even go out to a restaurant or a mall or to

walk around. I was just like very worried about what the fans will say, you know? Yeah. So to me it was always like, okay, I gotta have a good game or They're just gonna just destroy me in the media The fans are gonna say the craziest things and all my friends and family and everyone gonna read it So it was like I was like It was just taking a lot of it was just taking a lot out of me It sounds like a lot of pressure man. Oh my god, yeah a lot of pressure because if there was no media

if there was no this like sports writers whatever then like you're good but their job is literally to just wait for you to make a mistake

so they can put that mistake everywhere in a world and obviously once the sports writer writes anything about it then the national media takes it and everyone talks about it that's why it's like it's so mentally

it's the tough 20% is I always say like 20% of it is just physical and 80% of mental because physical part, you can literally just go to the gym and work out for two hours and lift. And after the practice, you can get some extra shots and you're good, you know? So the physical part is easy, but the mental part is the toughest part. And how did you deal with that? Because it's something that a lot of people we talk to who are not in the sports world, you know, you become a public commentator, you write a book or whatever.

And you find yourself in a position where people have an opinion about you that you kind of control, right? You know, it was just so weird because, like, you cannot have any bad days because those fans don't know what you're going through. You might have a family problem. You might, you know, maybe you broke up with your girlfriend or you were having a problem at home. Maybe you're getting divorced or maybe you're about to have a kid.

So you're not every day your mind is with basketball. But the fans see that. And they're like, we are paying thousands of dollars. to watch you play. So we are like, it was like a circus. You know, it was literally like a circus. And we cannot have any bad days. So how you come?

I think the one thing that we always did was just every after game, we're just sitting down in a locker room. And if someone had a bad day, if someone missed like a very important shot, if someone doesn't feel like themselves, we're sitting down in a locker room. and say, okay, we are family. We, whatever is happening, let's talk in a locker room.

And whatever happens in the locker room stays in a locker. You know, maybe we were going to fight. Maybe we were going to talk. Maybe we were going to discuss this, that. But it's not going to come out of this locker. So that made all of us feel so much better. I'm like, okay, like, you know, some people, I missed the game winning shot. The whole city might hate me.

You know, no, the whole media is going to destroy me tomorrow morning. But at least I have my teammates back. Yeah. You know, and we're, we always have this strategy. If one of these media out there will come after us, we're going to protect each other. Yeah. You know, because media, media allows drum. So they're going to be like, well, this player didn't pass you to bowl.

You could have just dunked the ball. Are you mad at him? And if you say anything that might. my... And inside you are, man, exactly, right? Inside, of course. I'm going to punch him in a face.

We're going to win the game. But if you cannot, even if you're like, maybe you're like, even if you roll your eyes, I promise you, they take a scoge out of dad. And the next day, oh, Ennis doesn't like his teammates. So that's why athletes,

when they get asked questions by the media, it's always the same, you know, oh, I love my teammates, we just need to work hard and we'll get the next one. But that's not what we talk in a lot, Obviously in a locker room, you're like, dude, I was open. Why didn't you pass me the ball? Or like, what's going on?

Do we have a problem? Yeah. So we were trying to solve every problem in a locker room. And when we got out of this locker room, you're all good. There's the most famous and the best rugby union team in the world in New Zealand, all blacks. And they have a policy called the No Dickhead policy. That's literally the name of it. Interesting.

And what they say is, it doesn't matter how talented you are. It doesn't matter how good a rugby player. you are. If you are a dickard, you're not going to play for the All Blacks. I love it. Actually, I had a teammate, Stephen Adams. Do you know Stephen Adams? Stephen Adams is from New Zealand. In New Zealand. Great player. One of the games, I had a really good game. And he said, I'm going to, he's going to bring me a gift. So the next game, he brought me this all black jersey.

Yeah. I can't remember who he was, but I was like, oh, cool, I posted it. And so many people were just retweeting it and liking it and say, we didn't know you're a a fan, whatever. But no, I had a teammate like that. And we've talked about, you know, the pressure. But what's probably even more difficult, NIST, how do you deal with success? How do you deal from going from a regular background to all of a sudden being a young kid who is surrounded by wealth, adulation, fame, women? I mean, if that had happened to me when I was 20, I'd be in rehab now. 19. 19.

19, even worse, your teenager. I mean, so that's why NBA had this like programs. It calls like rookie transition program, you know? So whenever you enter the league, you go to these programs and the older or retired players comes and gives you their experience that what happened throughout their career. And some of the things that you hear is just unbelievable. Because think about us, you're 19 years old.

You're just getting drafted. The whole world is talking about you. They're giving you millions of dollars. And everywhere you go, you don't have to pay for anything. You eat free food. You shop free. You do everything for free. And you literally become a huge celebrity.

And now with all the social media and everything, you have a huge influence. And you can inspire so many people. But sometimes, like, players don't know what to do with all this fame, all this money, you know? So that's why they go to clubs and they go to bars and they, find 10, 20 girlfriends, and it just, boom. Did you do any of that? No, because I had a really good team around me, really good team around me, and they always protected me, you know, because, I mean, coming to America, coming to America,

my family raised me really well, and they were like, you know, I'm obviously because of my faith, because of a Muslim, I'm not allowed to drink, I'm not allowed to really go out, I'm not allowed to do certain things that my teammates were doing, you know, so that really protected me. But other than that, I'm, you know, I had a, I think average NBA players' career is four years. Wow. Yeah. Because they're coming into the league, boom, clubs, girls, drinks, this and that, and they're done. Well, yeah. So it was your faith that kept you on the straight and narrow. But I guess the question is as well, it's just, there must have been a part of you that was tempted. There must have been a part of you where you're,

Just talk to yourself, you know, you know, look, we're all men, we're all human. There must have been a couple of ladies when you're like, I've worked really hard this week. It is so crazy because everywhere we go, they were waiting for us. We go to a hotel, they're waiting at the lobby. We go to a game, they're waiting. We go to a restaurant, we go to a mall. They know our schedule, obviously. The schedule was out before the season.

So every city we go, for some of the city, they already know the hotel we're staying so it's like you go down to lobby and there are like hundreds of them literally a little hundred of them i feel your pain in it yeah this was before instagram right once the instagram came so they already know our schedule you know so before we go to the cities they were already de-having us and say hey you know you're coming to our city let's hang out and it was literally like a menu. You just literally just scroll it down. Okay, I did not do this. I'm just saying people who did it. It was like a minute. You just go down. You're like, hmm, I want a blonde today. I want a brunette today. I want this. I want that. You can literally just pick or one,

two, maybe more, you know? So that's why a lot of the players were just losing focus because of all that. Yeah. You know, they thought that this is going to last forever. You know, but they were just going out and partying. all night and coming to the game the next day, they can't even walk because they're angler from last night, you know? I had a lot of teammates. I'm like, we had a game. So we usually go to the city the night before, and then in the morning we have practice,

and then at night we play basketball. We play the game. I had a lot of teammates, even in the morning before the practice, they were like, they could hardly walk. So I'm like, how are you going to go out there and play? basketball. Compete against these guys like Kobe, LeBron, or Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowiski, Paul Gasol. And they're like, well, I'll be fine, I'll take a knack. He ended up getting hurt because his body was just not ready for that, for the 11th. And also it makes it more challenging, particularly if you come,

like a lot of these guys from very poor backgrounds where you have nothing. And then it's not like you go into business and gradually you build yourself up and you're starting to make, it's zero to a hundred miles an hour. That's why, you know, like you ask so many people, a lot of the NBA players goes broke right after the career because, you know, when you come from like, you know, poor families and your first contract is like $20 million. What do you want to do? You want to show off, right? So you want to buy your friend a car, you want to buy your other friend a house, you want to buy another friend of car and these are like really expensive cars and homes so you really want to you you're really trying to take care of your whole street or your whole neighborhood you know

and you go out there and buy this like 100,000 dollars or juries or watches and stuff which you don't even need you know so they always think that okay money's going to come forever but no they only when you get hurt you're done you know if you don't take you care for yourself. If you have like an injury prong, then the players are, the teams are not going to sign you. What was the big thing that you bought? With my, with my first, with my first contact, I literally took my teammates or pizza hot. Literally. We had a, we had a blast. We had so much fun. And he was like, all you can eat too. So we were just like, killing it. You know? But I'm trying to think I really didn't buy anything like house, car, nothing, what?

Nothing. Really? Nothing. As you see, I'm a very simple, very simple person. I mean, I was like, the one thing I've always done, I was just donated a lot of money to some of the families out there, especially in Turkey. Because I'm sure you guys know this situation over there. Yeah.

Well, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. But other than that, I didn't really buy anything crazy. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright. creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality. An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with the cramudgeonly Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery. Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend,

only on Netflix May 8th. One of the questions that has always interested me about when you talk to elite athletes is obviously everybody who plays the NBA is absolutely exceptional as an athlete. But there is this kind of little strata of the people at the top. And it doesn't matter whether it's football like Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo,

or it's people like Kobe Bryant. That little sliver of people at the top won't make them so special that even as professional athletes are head and shoulders above every single other person. What makes him so special, I believe, I mean, we are all athletes.

We know how to train our body, you know. We know what to do when we go into gym, when we workouts. We know our weaknesses. We know our strengths. You know, we know how to eat well, sleep well. I mean, we have all the resources. I think the mindset, you know, I had so many teammates like, you know, like Damien Lillard, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Jason Tatum, and these played a word the one that always

like coming to the gym first and leave and last. And I think what makes them so special is, you know, they were not only just so amazing individually, but they make themselves better and they make everybody else better around them. That's what makes them really special. And I think being a good leader is really important in this league. You know, you can average 20, 25 points. But if you're not winning any games,

if you're not helping your teammates, if you're not affecting the game, You know, they're just nothing. They're just like empty stats. Yeah. We call it empty stats, you know. But if you're, instead of you're 25, you score 20 points, but you're making your teammates score 10, 15 points,

and now they're happy. They want to play. They want to win games, you know? So that's what separates from great players and good players. And you play a position where people giving you the ball is important. Like you need people, the little guys to give you the assist. That's coming from that. Before we move on to the more

your activism and other things, best player you ever play with? That's a tough one. I might go with Russell Esberg. Really? Yeah. I've got to pick him over. Because when I play with him,

the season that I play with him, he averaged triple double. He got the MVP, and he was the best play in the league. And now, right now, people give him so much. People right now I just really talk badly about him because of his character or whatever,

but I think he was one of the best team that I had. That's so interesting. Can I push back just as a casual basketball fan? Because I always think when I look at Russell Westbrook is that individually he's a great player, but I always thought the reason he's not won anything is that his style, it's not about his temperament and personality, His style is not necessarily always making the team better.

But you say the opposite. I'm totally saying the opposite because he actually, I mean, you... And Russell, please don't hurt me. I'm a lot smaller than you. To understand Russell, you have to play with Russell. Right. You know, that's when you know how good of a teammate he is on and off the court. That's how you know how good of a leader he is and how good of a basketball player he is.

You know? So a lot of people give him... A lot of bad stuff. So why do you think he hasn't been able to win the chip? I mean, there are a lot of great players out there that did not win any championship, like Caram Malone, Chuck, trying to think, who else?

There are, I mean, many other players that did not win a championship. You know, so, so yeah. All right. And who's the best player that you played against? Who was the guy that when you saw, you were just kind of think to yourself, Oh, not this.

Not him again, please. I think I might, I think Kobe Bryant. Really? You came in the league one? Oh, 2011. So he was already maybe past his prime a little bit. I mean, he was still killing it. He was still killing it. Yeah, he was killing it, obviously.

But I might say, you know, I mean, Kevin, Kevin Drenner, I played against, Stefan Curie I played against, and Derek I played against. But I'm trying to think. I think I'll say Kobe. What was so special about him? What made him so different?

He just, I think his mentality. You know, everyone talks about the mama mentality, but I think his mentality was just on a different level. You know, he was, like I said again, there was always first one in the gym, and he was just, you know, he hates losing. Some players loves winning, but he hate losing. There's a big difference.

When I get drafted, one of the scholars asked me, do you love winning or do you hate losing? I was like, I hate losing I was like, bit, you know, but That's the right mentality if you want to be super successful Yeah, so but he did not His focus was just on a different level Very professional, unbelievable guy

And you also, I see it in sport a lot Particularly soccer, there are some players Christiana Ronaldo is the ultimate example of this Who have a killer instinct He's a killer No, we, so when I was playing with Oklahoma City Thunder We actually went to Real Madrid And we watched them play

and we actually get to meet him. I got to met him right after the game. And you always, you always see him on social media or TV how he's like ripped and stuff. I promise we have a pitcher. He was like not even quarter of our size. I'm like, this is the guy that is on TV

just all ripped and stuff. He was just like, this is like very skinny. Compared to us, he was very small. Yeah, well, basketball players carry a lot more muscle than footballers because you don't run as much. Well, and listen, one of the things I really enjoyed so far in our conversation is when you talk about basketball, you light up. I can tell it's something you enjoy, you enjoyed, right?

And yet, as we sit here, you're not an NBA player. And you don't even have the same name that you had, right? Because you made some changes and you spoke up about things that you cared about and you've paid the price. Right? Tell us about that. Well, I mean, actually my activism. started when I was a kid. So in Turkey, I'm not sure

how much you guys know the Turkish politics, whatever. So if you're in Turkey, if you're a politician, if you want to be elected again, you do two things. You attack America and you attack Israel. Just because of the base is so uneducated, right? They're like, wow, look at our leader.

He's standing strong against America. He's standing tall against Israel. So let's vote for him. So that was the situation when I was growing up. So on TV, newspaper, there was just propaganda all day. I was nine years old. I went down and I was to play with my friends. And I remember my friends, they're not even teenagers.

My little friends were burning flags. They were burning American flags. They were burning Israeli flags. And I asked them, like, guys, what are you doing? They said, well, that's what we see it on TV. they're evil, they're bad, they're terrible. So they gave me a flag to burn it. I took the flag, I took the lighter,

I'm looking at it, I'm like, this is not the right way to do it. So I threw it down, I ran upstairs to my mom. I was like, Mom, my friends are telling me to hate America. They tell them to hate Israel. They tell them to hate Jewish people, hate Christians, hate Americans, what do I do? My mom said, I'm not going to tell you what to do,

but do not hate anyone before you meet him. And I'm nine years old. So that day, I give a promise. I'm not going to hate anyone. So when I was 17 years old, right, my dad was seeing the environment that I was growing up in. They're like, this is just too toxic. Get out here.

So they wanted me to play basketball and get my education at the same time. So they said, okay, it's time for you're good America. So I remember coming here for the first time, my plane was about to learn. I'm so excited, but same time I'm so nervous because I just don't know what to expect. Because the last 17 years, the environment I live in was just very toxic. Because you ask, if you have any friends in Middle East, you ask him, you know, in some of the schools, in some of the classes in Middle East, they have flags.

They have American flags and they have Israeli flags. And if you are a student, if you're a little kid, if you don't step on those flags, you're not allowed to attend the class. Wow. Think about it. And I am growing up in an environment like that. So I came to America for the first time. I'm so, like, shocked. I'm just looking around and trying to, like, get to know people and stuff.

But I remember my teammates tried to have a conversation with me for the first time. I left the locker. And I just didn't know what they were trying to do. And they were so nice. They were like, hey, let's take you to a mosque. Let's take you to go get some halal food. and stuff. I was like, what are they trying to do?

I remember going to my first Shabbat dinner. It was very interesting because I didn't know she was Jewish or I don't think I would even be friends with her in the beginning. So then I remember the promise that I gave to my mom. I was like, okay, I'm coming. Before I went to her house to have a Shabbat dinner with her family, I called my Turkish friend who lives in America.

I was like, if you don't hear from me for the next two hours, call the police. Because I just don't know what makes me. Anyway, I took a chance. I went there. It was an amazing, amazing dinner. I mean, because I don't know how much you guys know, but they're so close to our religion, our culture.

The food is almost like the same. So it was unbelievable experience. When I was going back to my hotel, I started to clear up because I'm always. I was thinking there are millions of kids in the Middle East right now is growing up anti-Semitic, anti-West, anti-American, anti-Christian just because of those hate speeches coming from these politicians. So I was like, we got to change it.

You know, and then after that, I promised myself, I was like, whatever it takes, I'm going to stand for what's right. And how did that then manifest it in your NBA career? Because when I was watching the NBA, as I do, you know, you were a great player. played for a number of teams. So he played in New York and Oklahoma and, you know, a bunch of Portland as well. You mentioned Damien Lillard. But I never really heard anything at the time.

And that's maybe because I wasn't paying enough attention. But it seemed like there was a particular couple of moments maybe. Yeah. That really changed the trajectory of your life and your career. So there was a corruption scandal happened in Turkey back in 2013. And there was the first time I said something about it because President Erdogan and his family members were involved in it. And so after the corruption scandal, I said something,

I literally put a very simple tweet out there. Because of the NBA platform, it became a conversation in the United States and in Turkey. I'm waiting for this. You have to keep going. It's so good. We're in New York, man. So I was like, even one simple tweet can affect this much from now

and I'm going to start paying attention about what's going in my country more and more. So I started to study at my country. number of my teammates were going out to parties, clubs, and whatever. And I was going back to my house. I was studying about what's going on between Middle East, what's going on between America and Turkey and stuff. So the more I studied, the more I started to talk about these problems. And obviously, every time I told me, was becoming a conversation.

And Turkish government hated that. I mean, first, my dad was a scientist. He got fired from his job. My sister went to medical school for six years, and she still cannot find a job. My little brother was playing basketball. He wanted to be like his big brother, playing NBA, but he was getting kicked on in every team because of the same last name.

So they were getting affected so much they had to put a statement out there and said, we are this on and Ennis. Actually, the letter is still out there on the internet. You guys can't read it if you want. After that letter, I remember going to a practice, it was definitely one of the toughest day in my life, right? So then Turkish government didn't believe that

they sent police to my house in Turkey and they raided the whole house and they took every electronics away. Phones, computers, laptops, iPads, because they wanted to see if I am still in contact with my family or not. So after the raid out, they couldn't find no evidence, but they still took my dad in jail for a while. But we put so much pressure from here with the politicians and media with some of the celebrities to Turkey, they had to let him go.

And then, you know, they revoked my passport, they put my name on Interpolis, they put a bounty on my head. and then, you know, they send death threats every week now and stuff. I have 12 rest warning for me right now in less than nine years. Just for speaking. Just. And you know, the crazy thing is whenever I, like, had a conversation with some of them,

whenever I give an interview, I always say, look at my every interview that I have given so far. Look at every op-ads. Look at everything I have right or tweet so far. I never talk about politics. I keep it pure human rights and I talk about political prisoners and if that makes me a terrorist okay, I'll take it, I guess.

You know what I mean? So the reason I did not want to talk about politics is because human rights is about politics. So I was like, you know what? I don't care about the politics side of it. I just want to help people. So I was like, it's pure human rights. And it's what made you keep going

because there's a lot of people who would see what was being, the pain that was being inflicted on their family and would think, look, family first and I'm just going to step back. And I have a lot of empathy for that point of view. You know, the family always first 100%,

but people knows my situation and my family situation because obviously I play in the NBA, but there are thousands of families out there in jail. Their situation is way worse than mine. I mean, I was looking at the numbers just recently. Right now there are 17,000 innocent woman are in the jail waiting for help.

And this woman did not commit no crime. You know, these are just housewives, lawyers, doctors, teachers, whatever. And they work in a place, which is, or they work in a media outlets, which is set something against the regime in Turkey. And a lot of the reports out there, like I missed international Human Rights Awards, Human Rights, Human Rights, Foundation, saying that these women are getting tortured and raped, you know. So I'm like, I had to make a decision.

I'm like, you know, it obviously is important to go back, be able to go back to my country, see my family, hang out with my brothers and sisters and stuff. But here, there are thousands of people are suffering. And did you, do you feel a particular sense of duty because you have a big audience? Because you have a platform. I think so.

I think, you know, this platform is giving me by God. So I was like, you know what? This is just God's work. Because I'm not making, I'm actually losing money. actually losing endorsement deals by talking about these issues. You know, it's not like this is making me more famous. This is getting me better contracts. This is making me join better teams.

This is literally like taking a lot out of me, but it's still important for me. And I imagine your agent was going. He wasn't obviously. He wasn't happy. Because once you talk about these problems, many of the teams, especially the owners, are like, I mean, this is a huge deal. This guy literally, they consider him as international criminal.

They put a bounty on his head. So it's a big distraction for our team, you know? Because it was, whenever I joined a team, the whole year was not about basketball. That whole year was about, the whole international media was talking about what's going on in my life. either a bounty, either me meeting with the world leaders,

or either me going to talking about some of the problems that are happening in the world. So the focus was shifted away from basketball. And no one could have said anything like, why are you doing it? Because like I said again, it was pure human rights. So no one really could have challenged me. So for the coaches or for the owners, it was a big. distraction. And Ennis, did anybody ever say to you, look, if you, let's be honest, if you shut your mouth, this will mean that you get a better deal. There's a chance that you could go to a better

club. There's a chance that you could have a far better career. Right. Not when the topic was Turkey, but when the topic was China, yes. Well, this is what I was going to say because you pissed off the Turkish president. But this wasn't enough, right? Because you then had to piss off the Chinese Communist Party as well. us about that. Oh, just before we do that, there's one thing that I want to say, because I see Meza Ozil, who is a huge Turkish footballer, and he has appeared in photographs, and he's supporting...

German football. German footballer. German Turkish, yeah. German Turkish, yeah. And with Erdogan. So I did respect him until he took a picture with Erdogan. You know, it's not like... So he did talk about the Uyghurs.

He was literally talking about... about some of the important things that are happening in our world and stuff. So I was like, wow, this is very amazing. This is very interesting. And a soccer player is going out there and talking about something bigger than soccer. This is beautiful. Till I saw that he's endorsing Erdogan. Then he lost me.

And he did not only lose me, he lost millions of people around the world. Now, whenever I go and have a conversation with one of the Turkish person, whatever, they said, well, I mean, he was a good player. you know he has he's a fleet of it yeah Erdogan so you talk about turkey you have all this trouble but that's not enough for you so this is how it all started so for the last 10 years I focused on Turkey

the reason obviously my plate was full because my family I haven't seen being able to see my family almost 10 years now a lot of my friends and neighbors and whatever in Turkey stuff in jails and stuff. So just last summer, I am doing a basketball camp in New York.

So after the baby, we had an amazing basketball camp camp with the kids. After the basketball camp, all the kids just lined up for me. And they were just getting pictures and getting autographs one by one. So I remember, so I took a picture

with this kid and his parents called me at the phone of everybody. The media was there, my friends, some of my other athlete friends were there and little kids were there he said how can you call yourself

a human right activist when your Muslim brothers and sisters are getting tortured and raped every day in concentration camp in China and I'm still smiling for the camera so I took a picture with this kid I turned around I was like I promise I'm going to get back to you

so that day I canceled everything I went back to my hotel I started a study about what's going on over there in China And the more I studied, the more I realized, wow, this is just crazy. And no one have a courage to talk about this issue. You see Uyghurs. And the more you study, you see like Tibetans, Hong Kongers, Taiwanese people, Mongolians, Falun Gong,

they are all under heavy persecution by Chinese governments. So I was like, well, I got to talk about it. But on internet, you can find all kinds of news. You don't know which one to trust or not. It could be a fake news. It could be real news. So I called my manager. I was like, I need you to find me a concentration camp survivor.

Obviously, he was very shocked. He was like, what are you talking about? He said, well, just find me one. So he did find me one. He was a lady. So we sit down, had a conversation. I had an amazing one-hour conversation with her. You know, I wanted to just learn the story from, you know, for a first half.

So she was telling me about all the torture methods, all the gang raping, all the forced sterilization, abortion, organ harvesting, and surveillance cameras. And I was like, the more she talked, the more I was like, shame with myself. I was like, I cannot believe the guy gave me this huge platform, and I only focused on one dictatorship. So I was like, from now on, I'm going to talk about every dictatorship. That moment. So I end of our conversation, I asked her, I was like, how can I? help. She said, I don't need your help. I'm good. I was like, so why do we have this one-hour conversation for no reason? Like, why did you even come here? She said, I live in America.

I live a good life here. I can do whatever I want. I can say whatever I want. I can eat whatever I want. But help those people, help those two, three million Uyghurs are in concentration camp in China because they are getting tortured and rape every day. So at that moment, I'm like, I don't care what kind of contract or endorsement deal or anything you can offer me. I'm just going go out there and just expose the whole system. That's how it all started. And we know that the NBA has the Chinese market is bigger than the American market. So this didn't go down well. So like I said again, I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it in a very unique way.

So later on if someone comes and say, why are you doing this? I'm like, this is human rights. So you're telling me that you don't hear about human rights, you know? So I wanted to do it in a very unique way because I remember when I was a kid, whenever I watched an NBA game, the first thing I was watching was the shoes. I mean, everyone lost shoes, what color they are, what brand it is, if they're comfortable. The next day I was telling my dad, please buy those shoes for me, you know? So I had this idea. I was like, let's reach out of these artists around the world, which have been oppressed by their governments,

because they are the one that knows a story more than anyone. And we're like, let's tell them to put all the struggles, all this, you know, emotion, all the stories on the shoes, and we're going to go out there and play basketball. And these shoes are non-slave labor. I mean, many of the shoes out there in the world right now, unfortunately, they have sweatshops and slave labor. Anyway, so we created the shoes. My first topic was Tibet, free-tube. You know, it's not a political, it's literally a human rights issue.

So I put the shoes on, free to bed shoes, I went out there and played basketball. It was right, our first game, I was playing for the Celtics, our first game against New York Knicks, it was the opening night for the New York, and it was just the whole world was watching that game. It's the biggest rivalry. So I put the shoes on, I'm warming up, and a minute before the game, two gentlemen from the NBA, came to me and said, take your shoes on. I was like, excuse me?

They're like, well, your shoes has been getting so much attention internationally. You've got to take them off. So at that moment, I was just getting ready for my citizenship test in America. So I closed my eyes. I'm like, okay, we have 27 events in America. My first amendment, free moose speech, I told them no. Even if I get fine, I'm not taking them off. They said we're not talking about fine.

We're talking about getting bad. I wish there is no rule against it. So that half, I play zero minutes. Zero. I went back to my locker room. I had thousands of notifications in my phone. I clicked on the one that my manager sent me. He said, every Celtics game is banned in China.

It took them 24 minutes, first quarter to the 12 minutes, the 12 minutes, 24 minutes to ban every Celtics game in television. So I was like, well, that clearly should. shows the censorship and the dictatorship over there. Anyway, so after that game, I played zero minutes. We lost the game. And after the game, there was just huge media storm. Literally, every media in the world from very random countries,

which I'd never even heard of, wanted to have an interview. I told my manager, decline them all. I don't want to have no interview with anyone. I didn't want my teammates to think I'm doing this for attention. I was like, decline everything. And he was like, are you sure? He was like, are you sure? He said, they were like, well, you know what you did.

NBPA called me, the Player Association, which I give thousands of dollars every year to protect my rights against the NBA. They say, you cannot wear their shoes every game. NBA has been pressured us. I was like, am I breaking the rules? They said no. They said, well, you cannot remember again.

I was like, if I'm breaking in the rules, tell me, I won't wear it. They pressure me so much. I was like, you know what? fine, I'm not going to wear free to bed shoes every game. There's a promise, I said promise, so we hang up the phone. So the next game, I wore free Uyghur shoes. Now that's what you call doubling down.

So they called me after the game, the second game. They're like, you're a liar, you'll lie to us. We can never trust you again. I was like, first of all, relax. Second, I never lied to you. I never said, I'm not going to wear free Uighur shoes. I just said I'm just not going to wear free tibet shoes. At that moment, they got it.

they were not going to be able to make me apologize, took my tweet down and say, I was not educated enough, sorry, whatever. So after the second game, one of my teammates woke up to me and said, you know this is your last year in NBA right. You criticize China, you criticize Nike, you're not going to play basketball every game.

Have fun, smile, I hope you win a championship, but this is it for you. Wow. And that was it? And it was as simple as that. Simple as that. And, but, I mean, you worked so hard in this.

You put, you dedicated so much of your life to getting to the NBA. You clearly love basketball. Was there no part of you who thought, I mean, of course I love basketball, but it's just the promise I guess I will say to give to my mom was like, Mom, I promise I'm going to stand up for watch right, whatever it takes, even if it means sacrificing everything I have, you know? I mean, people keep talking about it. basketball, me losing my career, but I talk about the problems where happening in Turkey,

I pretty much lost my family. I haven't seen my mom and dad and my sister over 10 years now, you know? And also, I just, when I know that on the other side of the world, people are losing their love ones, losing their lives, and losing their homes, I just couldn't play. I just couldn't go to sleep at night in peace. And what was the reaction of the manager? What was the reaction of the coaches? What was the reaction of your teammates? And they were just shocked. They're like, everyone was shocked

because everybody knew that this is it. I'm not going to play basketball. And it's not like I'm 35 years old. It's not like I was 29 years old. I could have played another like six, seven years. So if they, if I did this whole thing when I'm 35, 36, they're like, well, you know, he was going to be down with basketball anyway,

So he just did it to have a next chapter in his life. I could have literally played another six, seven years. I'm healthy. I love basketball. I love the NBA, the basketball side of it, not the politic side of it, obviously. But this is just bigger than myself, bigger than MBA, bigger than basketball.

And Ennis, I think anyone watching this or listening to this will know that you're coming from a good place, really from a good place. And you're doing what you're doing. believe and you're standing up for what you believe. But there are also people who will say, you know, we see this with kneeling in relation to BLM, in the NBA and in soccer. We see this with Colin Kaepernick, et cetera. But there are people who say, you know, sport is sport and politics is politics. And you violated that separation. So there's a like, a, like,

Like I said from the beginning of our conversation, there's a difference between politics and human rights. I don't do politics. I have never in my life said, even about Turkey or China, let's vote for this guy, let's vote for this party. I don't like, I endorse this person. Never in my life, you know. I keep the pure human rights. So if they are against what I'm saying, that means they're against human rights. You know?

And because I don't, and also not only basketball. but athletes has a huge platform. They can literally inspire millions of kids out there. Now with all the social apps, phones, everything, you know, they're just literally becoming an educator. And now you see all the kids are literally just following the daily routine that these athletes has. So it's in your hand to just put the good things out there

and the bad things out there, you know? You see all this, some of the players were putting out there not there with alcohol and girls and clubs and all and expensive jewellries and cars. But same time, you see other athletes talking about what's more important for our society, you know? Sorry, I was going to say, was there not a part of you? Because you're obviously a bright guy. You have studied about America. And you looked at the way the NBA have effectively canceled it.

And you thought to yourself, well, this is my First Amendment right. I'm going to take you on. Was there not a part of you? Was like, right, if we want to go to battle, let's go to battle. I mean, this was the craziest thing because I was just keep asking myself, how can the biggest ticked leadership in the world can control a 100% American-made company

and fire an American citizen? I would just keep asking this question to myself. And one of my friends said, study, and you will see more. So the more I study, the more I realize, NBA is not the only one. you see Hollywood, big tech, academias, Wall Street, farmland, congress, local congresses, they all run by one of the dictatorships out there. Like, after my basketball career, I was like, you know what, basketball is over.

I am still an athlete. I'm still in a good shape. Let me do something else about sports. So I grew up as a huge WWE fan, huge wrestling fan. So I was like, well, I was already in conversation with some of my friends over there and stuff. So I started to have conversations, people heard about it and stuff. And one day, one of my friends called me from WWE. They said, listen, we know that you like to talk about some of the, you know, problems are out there happening in the world.

But I got to tell you something. I was like, what happened? She said, talk about anything in the world. You can't talk about anything in the world. But if you ever talk about Saudi Arabia, you're never going to wrestle. I was just like, what are you talking about? They said, whatever China is for the NBA is WW for Saudi Arabia. They said they make so much money from Saudi Arabia every year,

which is girls are not even allowed to wrestle there. If you say anything against it, you're not going to be able to wrestle. I was like, well, it's too late. you know so I see the more I study the more I realize every organization CEO or companies has been bought by someone bad out there you know I even call out you know all this the war happening in Ukraine is obviously it's horrible it's disgusting whatever but you see all this like CEOs all this organization and companies are pulling out of Russia I was like We were just having this huge conversation with many important people.

I was like, if God forbid China ever tried to invade Taiwan, would you guys do the same thing? No answer. And the reason is obviously because China is a bigger and more powerful market. Of course. Right. And did you think that, I mean, you say it's not politics, and I know what you mean, but these issues, unfortunately, are political. Right, people politicize them. And we saw with, for example, BLM,

the NBA treated that very differently. Very different. To put it mildly. Well, the reason was they know that, you know, during the NBA bubble, I was an NBA bubble. I'm sure you guys know about the NBA bubble. But tell our audience. So three years ago, 2020, the COVID hit,

and NBA obviously still wanted to make money. So they took all of us into a hotel in Disney. So we were in a hotel over 82 days and we just couldn't, you know, meet with anyone from the outside. You know, they were testing us twice a day. And it was all about social justice. They put the BLM logos on the floor.

They put those phrases behind our jersey, which was controlled by the NBA. It was all about social justice and standing for what's right. And I was like, you know what? This is your freedom of protest. I got you. If you want to do it, do it.

I'm not against it. But NBA knew that the things that they stand up for in America is not going to affect their business. They are going to shut you up about anything if the things that you talk about affects their money or business. I was like, because I was seeing the hypocrisy, you know. So BLM and everything was for them, it was just PR.

You know, they were just trying to do PR, trying to get more clicks, more eyeballs, more recognitions. They're like, wow, look at NBA. It's the first organization that goes out there standing with African American community in America. Wow, what an amazing organization. But then China happened.

And I was like, first couple of games, I was like seeing that I was like, where is my support? Where is Adam Silver? Where is all this owners? and billionaires or teammates or coaches, where are they? You know? I was like, you know what?

I'm just going to expose the whole system. After I got released, China put the games back on television after three weeks. And we found out, we did the whole investigation. We found out 40 MDA owners got tied up $10 billion in China. I was like, well, that clearly shows what? I am out of the league. And did teammates, do they still talk to you? Or are you kind of seen as a kind of pariah figure?

Good question. So when I was playing, when I was playing, they were really supportive, silent support. You know, they were very supportive. They were like, it was the perfect moment because it was right before the Beijing Olympics. I was like, guys, join me. Forget about the NBA. I was reaching out to NFL, MLB, NHL, MLS, all. the major leagues in America.

Forget about America. I was even reaching out to Olympians. I was like, this is not a political issue. This is a human rights issue. So let's just join me. We'll create a movement. We'll talk about the slave labor. We talk about the sweatshops.

We talk about the people over there dying. They're like, listen, we love you. We support you, but we just cannot do it all out. I was like, why? They said, well, we have shoe deals, endorsement deals. We want to get another contract. I asked them one simple question. I was like, put yourself in their shoes.

If your mother, if your sister, if your daughter was on those concentration in camps, getting tortured and rape every day, would you still pick money and business over your morals, values and principles? They usually turn around and live there. Wow. And do you think part of this, the reason that you have this attitude, and it's, is the fact that you have seen a totalitarian regime. You know what that means.

You understand that. Whereas people who grew up in America, they don't understand what that means. They have no concept. I remember one time we're having conversation in a lockering with my teammates. And they were like, oh, America is bad. America is horrible. America is this and that. I stopped them.

I was like, guys, season is about to be over. When the season over, let me buy your tickets. It was a very generous first-class tickets. It was like, let me buy your tickets. And let's go to some of those dictatorships out there. Like Russia, like China, like Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea. And I would like to see if you guys can't forget about a tweet If you guys can't even criticize or say something about those regimes

You and your family members will be in torture and raping jails forever Just because of they didn't grow up They grew up with so much freedom in the markets in this country They don't know any better And then this is such a beautiful point You know, as we talked earlier I'm from Russia Francis Mothers from Venezuela It's one of the reasons we talk about the things

that we talk about on the show. And one of the things that seems to me is the story of your story and the NBA and how it handled BLM versus how handle your Chinese and Turkish protest is that it's okay to beat up America. Yeah. America bad.

America's the worst place ever, blah, blah, blah. And you can't criticize anyone else. We are the worst people. Let's not look anywhere else. And you know, That is correct. And also I was like, I didn't, I don't want to say I wanted to educate my teammates because they already knew. They already knew that their shoes has been made by slave kids.

There are so much blood and sweat and oppression behind those items, you know? They knew a lot of the problems were happening around the world. They knew some of the things that I even talk about. But them picking money and business over their morals, over what's going on. really broke my heart. And now when I got released, I played 11 years in the NBA. I had hundreds of old teammates, hundreds of old coaches, so many people from the foreign offices. Not the one of them texted me.

Wow. They said, hey man, good luck with your next chapter. Because they didn't want me to mention their name whenever I give an interview. I was like, hey, this guy supported me, this guy texting me, which I would never do without their permission. because they knew if I say, hey, this guy supported me when I talked about Hong Kongers, he was going to get a lot of trouble. And why do you think they didn't? Is it because they like the money?

Is it because they like the lifestyle? Is it because they don't want to get in trouble? I would say all, but fear is the most important one. You know, there are so many other examples out there, like Richard Gere, I'm sure you know who that is. He was an actor in Hollywood and he talked about, obviously, Tibetans and he was just gone after that, you know?

I think that seeing this kind of examples, me getting released at the age of prime of my time, you know, it's like a really big hit for them. So that's why I was like, you know what, this whole system needs to be exposed. And now they really lost 50% of the country, you know? And now whenever I have a conversation, with so many of, you know, the sports fans, they said, well, we love MBA, we love amazing,

but they don't stand for which, right? We don't believe that they, whenever they stand up for one of the social justice issues are happy in America, we know that it's not going to hit their pocket, or we know that they're not genuine about it. Yeah. And it's, you've been very generous for your time, so I don't want to hold you up too much longer, but are you happy? You happy did this? I'm very happy. I have zero regrets. A lot of plus. That is the one question. That is the one question that I get the most, do you have any regrets? Obviously, I love basketball. I love my family. Forget about basketball. I love my family. I haven't even been able to live and have a phone conversation with them for years, you know. But at the end, like I said again,

what I'm doing is bigger than myself, bigger than basketball, bigger than MBA. Because while I was dribbling the ball in this country, on the other side of the world, other side of the ocean, people were suffering, you know. And you can only understand that if you lived it. And I did live it, you know. Many of my dad was in jail. Many of my friends right now are still in jail. Many of my neighbors, maybe ex-teamates still played in Turkey in jail

just because of their support of me. I'm happy I did it. But, you know, I mean, I love basketball. You can never go back to those times And I love competing I love winning games I love going to different arenas and beating their team For their own fans

It's just the most funnest thing that you could do But I have no regrets I'm very happy And it's been an absolute pleasure Before we move on to our locals And where our patrons get to ask you questions We always finish the interview with the same question Which is what's the one thing We're not talking about as a society

That we really should be I think the one word that I just wish that I can just somehow magically put in everyone's heart is empathy. You know, once you have empathy and you can understand what others are going through, you know, we can just live an amazing life in this side of the world. But on the other side of the world, people are literally, you know, run away from wars and running away from bombs and run away from these terrorist groups. their own recruit them, you know. Once you have empathy, you're going to be able to try to understand the other side and do whatever you can to help them, even if it means sacrifice and everything. I think we definitely need to talk about that word more empathy. Ennis Freeman, thank you for coming on the show. Join us on locals where we ask your questions to Ennis. Take care and we'll see you

over there. Take care and see you soon, guys. Do you think Turkey will ever be a democratic country. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply.