TRIGGERnometry - PC Culture, Comedy & Our Trans Marriage - Jim & Nikki Norton

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

Jim Norton is a comedian, radio personality and podcaster. In 2023 he announced that he had married Nikki, a Norwegian webcam model who identifies as transgender (male-to-female). The two now have a YouTube channel together: https://www.youtube.com/@NikkiandJimNYC Jim initially gained prominence on the radio show Opie and Anthony from 2001 to 2014, and went on to release four comedy albums, seven comedy specials, including three on Epix and one on Netflix. Tickets for his current stand up tour, Now You Know, are available now at: https://www.jimnorton.com/tour Join our Premium Membership for early access, extended and ad-free content: https://triggernometry.supercast.com OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube: @xentricapc  Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/#mailinglist Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guys that preach politics, comics, shut the fuck up. They use the word platform. It's just teeter, shut your face. I just don't care about the pronoun thing. If you're not gonna call me a she on automatic, then my mission has failed. So, yeah. I think part of the reason people say,

what's your preferred pronoun? How do you want to be referred to so I don't get fucking fired? I thought I was gonna have the surgery, and me now would never say that. Which I'm so happy that I live in a day and age where I'm not castrated. Me too. Give it some time.

That's really what I can tell these trans people. You should give it extra time. Give it 10 years. So thank you for coming on the show, guys. People say that this is the golden era of comedy. Now, obviously, Nikki, you're a lot younger than Jim. But Jim, do you agree with that? Is this the golden era of comedy that we're in?

I don't know. Everyone thinks that they're in the golden era. Like, everyone thinks this is the time. There's a lot of bad comedy now, too. Like, there's a lot of great comedy. comedy and a lot of operas, but there's also a lot of shit comedy. So I don't know if it's any more the golden era than the 70s with Pryor and Carlin. So I don't know, maybe. I'm not a comedian, but I think it's past us because now you have to be more careful when you make jokes.

Yeah. That's interesting. So you think that you have to be more careful. Do you feel that as as a trans woman? Do you feel that? Really? You feel that you feel that you feel that you feel that you feel that you, I thought because being trans, you'd be like, oh, you know what? You can say, I can say anything. He can't because he's a straight white man. Questionable. I feel like I can say the- I don't see gender.

Yes, I feel like I can say the F word. You can see, so you can say the F word, but you can't. I'm trying to work out which F word at this point. The one she calls me. But in terms of comedic jokes, I think you have to be a lot more. careful to not come off as, you know, I don't know, like canceled, racist, I don't know, things like that. Do you think that's making comedy better or worse? Well, I think when you mute the language, I think automatically for me it gets worse because then it's like,

I don't know, it's just not as real. And you're kind of watching. It's like watching news. I feel like you're watching everyone be careful. And I don't enjoy that. It's so interesting you mention that because we talk about on this show. we talked about that a hell of a lot because it's less the case, I think, here in the U.S. Like, every time we come here, I go to a club. I'm like, if you did that in the UK, it'd probably be arrested, right? But still, like, there is a culture of sensitivity. Yes. And it is quite frustrating to watch people kind of muzzle themselves. It's not real. I mean, the people aren't really sensitive. They're just pretending.

Well, it's just watching people act in a play. That's become like the new way to get attention. So people are just looking for attention. And also being Norwegian from Norway, I feel like we don't take things as serious there, at least not as much as America. So when I first came here, I was like, oh, I better watch what I say here because people can get really offended. And I feel like it's a little different in Norway,

but the whole world is kind of leaching off of the US anyway. So I feel gradually it's probably. Well, I always say like whatever America flushes down the toilet, we get served for breakfast in Europe the next day. So it's time to feel like that a little bit. It's true. But it's interesting that you say that. So you think Norway is more free

when it comes to speech than it is in the European. U-K.S. Yes, a little bit, a little bit. But I do also feel like it's getting worse, like it is everywhere. I feel like it's getting worse in Norway. I feel like everyone is like watching a play. I watched news and I watch, oh, you're so careful. It's like I can see through it.

And it's just not reality to me. It's like you're doing your job and you're just, you know, that's it. Yeah, like someone makes a joke. And then, okay, now you'll do your job, which is to get angry about it and tweet about it. And now you're doing your part in this whole thing. It's all a charade. It's a charade. It's none of that, but it hasn't been real forever.

It's just more people now. You can see how pretend everybody is. And also in Norway, there have been like jokes with blackface and even saying the N-word on PBS without it being like banned. So I just think the history is very different, at least in Norway, than what it would be here. I mean, you rap along to a song and they have the N-word in it. Being a Norwegian, you wouldn't even think about that.

But here it's like they would kill you and cancel you for that. Well, in the UK, there was a... a girl whose friend was killed in a car accident, Chelsea Russell is her name. And she shared the lyrics of his favorite song, which happened to be a rap song on her Instagram, had the N-word in it. She was prosecuted and convicted. It's crazy. Right. For what? For hate speech. It's crazy. And then that was eventually overturned on appeal. But that was like, imagine that girl's life. She's like 18 years old or something at the time. It's crazy. But the guy who wrote it was not prosecuted. The guy who wrote the song was fine. The radio station

to play it or not prosecuted. It's like with the trans women too, they're like, oh, he called me a man and, like, they can go to court with that as a hate speech crime. And I'm like, I think that's ridiculous. I watched his trans girl, and he's like, she's deliberately calling me a man. That is a crime.

And I'm like, well, who gives a shit? I mean, you're trans, you are what you want to be. Isn't that it? Like, isn't that what we're rooted for this whole time? And now we have it. We can legally change whatever we want in the Western world, at least. Yeah, every discuracy and every act of rudeness doesn't have to be legislated by the government, and there doesn't have to be a court appearance

because somebody's an asshole. Sometimes people are just assholes, and we have to accept the fact that people are assholes. Do you know, we seem, I think, I guess it's the power of the internet now where people feel like because words travel further, like in the past, a guy in the bar calling you a man, you know, whatever, now it sort of feels like they're calling you a man to hundreds of thousands of people. Yes.

And whether it's true or not, you know, is a side issue, like because it's offensive, therefore now we have to legislate being an asshole out of existence. It's ridiculous. I mean, they're going to bring this in the court. I mean, for what? It's so unimportant to me if a random stranger were to call me a man. I mean, I don't know why these girls care or the female to males. But because the narrative, Nikki, is that you come from an oppressed minority.

Yes. Norwegians. Norwegians, exactly. When the reality is you raped my ancestors and I want to fucking apology. Yeah. You know, but let's move on from that. Now this episode is not demonetized. Yeah, exactly, even though it's history.

But so the narrative is that you need to be protected. You're vulnerable. You're a minority. Let's protect you. Why do you disagree with that? Just because I feel like 10 years ago when I was a boy and I was starting to find out what it would be like to transition, there was zero information on them. None. I could only find the ladyboys in Thailand online. So for me to just live this in existence

10 years, which is a relatively short time in real life and be married and have a husband, that's really all that matters to me. And I think that's kind of why I don't care about these, like the legislation. I just think it's ridiculous. And we're not there yet. I don't think you should ever be fined for calling anyone a him. I mean. And the person who's saying like, yeah, You're an oppressed minority. I have to... The person doing that is putting themselves normally in a position of being better than or above. It's just kind of condescension, and it's really paternal.

And it's something people do. They pretend to check their privilege, but it's a really sneaky way a lot of times. People want to hold on to what they have. So they throw breadcrumbs, and they act like, we'll scold you for saying this, but nothing is really going to change. It's all fake. It is all fake. And the thing that I find frustrating is that it's one thing, if... people from the particular group of minority go, hey, listen, that's not cool.

And let me explain why I think it's not cool. And then you go, okay, oh, listen. But if it's like an outraged white woman going, you shouldn't say this, you're like, fuck off. It's nothing to do with you. Yeah. I also legally couldn't change my name or gender until 2013, which is not that long ago. So I feel like the world as a whole with this trans stuff has just exploded and it's through

the roof. I feel like all these complaints, I don't care. You're all living your life. You're all changing your gender. You're all under the hormones. You can do whatever you want. The rest is unimportant to me. I couldn't care less.

That's so true because I think with the trans debate, there's a lot of legitimate conversations about women's sports and other things where I think there's genuine reasons for people to be concerned. Yeah. But I've always said this, like most normal trans people

just want to be left the fuck alone just like the rest of it. Yes. I've never met one trans person. who is, and I know comics, not one who is as sensitive as people are on Twitter. Not one who is a comic, not one who is just a non-comic. And I haven't met a lot of trans people. And none of them have been that hypersensitive or lacked a sense of humor

or have been so breakable and fragile as people are on Twitter. And all these comments are like, it's a he, it's a boy. And it's like, it's just noise. It's just, who cares? I find it irritating if they come on our page and do that, but it's not, oh God, it's like, fuck you. I don't care. You're like going on someone's YouTube channel and just making a statement because your pretend character online is you're the guy who tells it like it is.

But you're not the guy who tells it like it is. You're the guy who has the profile with no real photo who pretends to be the guy who tells it like it is and then goes back to living his life. Do you feel like it made you gay marrying me? Marrying me in the straightest thing I've ever done. What were you doing before? I would just ask guys, could you put a dress on, sir? Make me feel less guilty. No, it's not, I'm not gay, but definitely it's not straight.

I mean, there's no way you have a dick in your face and you're straight. As a guy, if you tell yourself that, I think you're just playing into the 1950s notion that heterosexual is the only right answer. And every single man who's been with me is eventually lent to the cock. So I do believe that's also, I can't be straight. Yes, if you have a cock at your mouth. I don't understand the obsession guys have. Maybe there's some cases where it is, I just don't know.

understand the obsession people have with making it a hetero activity. If you're a man, there's a dick in your face, stop it. Like, what do you need to tell yourself to feel okay about what you're doing? Why is that, why is the word hetero and straight so important to people? It's silly. But it also took you a long time, I think, to be out in this public. Only because it took you a while to get in the country. Like, I was comfortable. I've been talking about this stuff, you know, for 20 years on the radio and in stand up and joking about it, but telling people for 20 years. I mean, What were you saying? Just joking about, you know, at first it started where like in 2003, where I would pretend I didn't know.

Like that's, you know, like, oh, I didn't know. And then I was fucky her and I saw the dick. I knew. I mean, of course I knew. But that's your way of just talking about something that doesn't get talked about in 2003. And then as time goes on, you just start to say like, yeah, I like this girl. She's hot and she's trans and all the trans porn stars that would come in to the radio show. And there were something that I had hooked up with him.

I would admit hooking up with them. So it was like anything else. You talk about it more and more and you get more comfortable talking about it as the, you know, as the culture gets more comfortable with it, I guess. I think the issue comes in is when you start to mix sexuality with politics, when things start to be politicized, when people start seeing who they are as the most important thing about them. And then they start to see everything through that lens. When the reality is if you're gay and that is the most interesting thing about you or you, or you're, you're black and that's the most interesting thing about you, then you're a boring person. Yeah, if that's the one thing you hang your hat on, is that like, you know, I'm trans or I'm this

or I'm that. But it's like it doesn't really, as long as we can live our lives the way we want to, I don't, people can say what the fuck they want. It doesn't matter. Like I'm not obsessed with people liking us or accepting. I don't care people accept it or not. I have to say, though, as far as America punishes people with what you say sometimes, I feel like it's the best place to be trans right now, especially being from Norway. And maybe it's because I feel more exposed being Norwegian in Norway, but I feel like people are much more conservative there.

And I've been to like 10 countries. I really feel like America is the most accepting and the most not caring when it comes to me being me. Well, maybe not in like Alabama. I was going to interject there, Nikki, because I think I don't know if it's the most accepting. I think it's the most we don't care in countries.

Like live your life the way you want. And I think that's kind of the base, basis of this country. It's how it was built, really. Yes. So in the spirit of not giving a fuck, let me ask you, Jim, did you marry a trans just so no one would talk about the age gap? You know, no,

because I said I would not marry anybody who was trans if they were closer than 25 years. That was on the application. If there was anybody born before 97 was not even considered. If you knew who Black Sabbath was, I wouldn't fuck you. Jim is older than my dad. I am

29 years older. It's a huge difference. Yeah. But that, and that at times will be the thing in our relationship that causes us to fight. Her being transgender is never an issue. Like, it's like with most couples, there's a big age difference. Life experience and what I want and what her generation things, that will sometimes cause an argument. So what, not to start an argument here on said, but like, I'm curious what that generational

gap, how does that manifest itself? You know, a lot of times in musical taste, in what we want to do, in the things that we find interesting. Such as I was saving up with my own money because I'm doing cameos now and I was saving up and he got mad at me because I wanted to save up for a gaming computer and I mean unnecessarily mad scolding mad like you're so stupid you want to waste that money I didn't say stupid gaming computer and I'm like yeah I want a gaming computer I have one yeah I didn't say you're so stupid well I just wasn't happy I was like why aren't you thinking about like a sofa it was almost like why are you thinking about a computer and not getting a sofa even though I wouldn't pay for it anyway. I wanted that computer. It's interesting, but that's, I think, goes to the very core of this, which is a generational gap actually is far more relevant than a gap than talking about sexuality or gender or race, because that has far more of an impact in our lives, thankfully, than race, gender, and sexuality,

because there have people from previous generations who've fought, and some of them given their lives, So we can enjoy this. Yeah, I mean, she's actually an old soul, though. Like, Nikki is not typical of somebody who's 26. You know, like, she likes quiet restaurants. Like, I like old man shit. Like a steakhouse that has no vibe at all, just quiet. I don't like that stuff, too.

I hate hot spots. I wanted to be old, gentleman. Yeah. Like, that we have in common. Yes, really I'm dating an old man. Yeah. Which is my dream. Yes.

So that being the case, Jim, how long did it take you to actually come to terms with this? Because we grew up, so I'm 42. How old are you, Jim? 55. So you grew up, so you're firmly in the Gen X bracket. How long did it take you to kind of accept that you were different when it came to your sexuality? I mean, since I was a kid, I mean, you know, since I was very, very small, I've been doing things with boys and girls. So I knew early, early on, except as different. know, most comics don't like ourselves, or we have some kind of a weird feeling. So, I don't know how long it took to accept it, but to acknowledge it and go, well, this is real. I mean, I mean, literally from second or third grade, I was there. And how did your audience react

when you first started talking about it? They laughed. I think they knew I was being, because I don't typically appeal to what would be considered now a woke audience or back then a PC audience. Like, I think I appeal to more, like, you know, kind of, you're seeing like January 6th, like, that's a crowd that would probably be in and join me. But they were way more accepting than you think. And they were way more genuine than a lot of my liberal friends as far as like, yeah, all right, man. They were very, it was a little hard for some fans and some friends of mine, especially once Nicky and I were public. But I think because I wasn't apologizing for people realize this is who this person is. And if you don't like it, I truly don't care,

people like it. And when you present something like that, there's not much for them to push back on. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the woke not woke reaction because it, I, look, I hate woke shit. I really truly do. I think that we both do. And part of the reason is, is how much of it is performative fake shit instead of people saying what they really, I'd rather someone was really like saying to me, I don't like what you stand for, but they were genuine about it. Yeah. Then pretend shit because it's the right thing to say. You know what I mean? So can you do delve into that a little bit more? Like what are the liberal friends that you have saying about it?

Not much. And that's fine. I think because we don't come down on that, I can't even say I'm a conservative, because I'm absolutely not, because the people you detest them are Republican, like guys like Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott, but I'm certainly not liberal either. So I think because we don't stand 100%. The conservative people I know are much more comfortable with a kind of ambiguity in the politics as opposed to fucking the liberal people who know that I interviewed Trump and I wasn't a dick to him and I had a great 40 minute to talk about fighting

and I didn't sit there and virtue signal to him. I just had a great check because it was a fighting podcast and they don't like that. You know what I mean? Like the fact that I wouldn't have reacted how they think they would react in that situation and I've embraced a lot of the

conservative like I go on Fox. Why? Because Fox has been great to me. They invite me on. They've never once asked me to change my opinion or try to skew my take on things, CNN wants to have me on there more than welcome, but they don't. So you know what I mean? Probably because you did Fox. Maybe, yeah, yeah. Once. If you do that shit, then a lot of times I've noticed that liberals are much more likely to be uncomfortable around you than conservatives are if I do CNN, MSNBC. They don't get the fuck at all. Oh, yeah, we have the same thing. It's like, oh, you interviewed this. Yeah, we talk to people,

we talk to progressives, we talk to people on the right. You know, that's what human beings do. It's like I was watching The View or the talk or whatever it's called where Sharon Osbourne got booted. And it was just on the TV and I was just like, ugh, turn-offs. Yeah. Just can't with these people. Yeah, it's sickening. Pretend, pretend, pretend. Yeah, she committed the sin of defending Pierce Morgan for not liking me.

You know what I mean? And it's fucking crazy how it really does just tidal wave on you. And people are so afraid of getting crushed under it, they just go, yeah, yeah, you're right. She's terrible. They're just scared. It's not real. They're terrified of their own side, you know? Yes.

And it's one thing that I noticed because we came from the comedy industry, which is hyper-liberal, and particularly in the UK. And one of the things that I noticed when talking to people on the right was a lack of judgment. When I'm talking even to my own friends, I found that I was self-censoring. I can't say that, or I've got to put this in this way. And I didn't have that with people on the right. I was like, I disagreed. And they went, okay, that's fair.

I have not had one friend who's on that. side of the thing that's that's asked me to go whoa hey I have not been scolded one time by any of my friends or any of the people I know who are like I'm even far right guys that I'm friendly with not one of them has scolded me or said anything shitty about my relationship they're all like oh it's great man you're happy like it's a far more accepting group than and I hate to break it to liberals so I know you think you're like the compassionate ones but you've just gotten tremendously ugly and I want to agree with you I want to agree with liberals because They're much more likely to not make us illegal.

Yeah. Yes. Well, I was just going to say that I don't, I feel like the liberals are a little bit more pretend than the conservatives. I do feel that way. Yeah. So I was going to say, because I think you guys are where we are, which is we. Well, let's not go too far.

I don't think we're quite that. Just for the record. I look far more like I might transition. Well, you're not wearing a mini-skinned. like that maybe it's what I'm saying. You might look like a good woman. I don't know if that's praise or not, but I'll take it. It's the cheap bones. But it's, you know, because I think politically, let's just say that, we are kind of similar in that we, I don't see myself as being on the right. There's things on the right that I agree with and there's things on the left that I agree with. But I look at people on the left and

I just feel isolated from them, even though I agree with certain things. And you end up in kind of this middle spot, which I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing. Let's talk about it where you don't see yourself as being with either side. And people make the mistake, I think, of saying that if you're in the middle spot, that it's because you're afraid to take a stand. But it's a lie. They're trying to convince themselves they're brave. And what they're doing is even more cowardly because they're only saying things that will get the applause

from people who agree with them already. Like, they act like they're taking these tough fucking stances. But it's like, if you're a conservative, it's really easy to always attack liberals and vice versa. You take zero risk. You're not upsetting the people who are in your group. And more younger people too are starting to become political. Like when I was 15, 16, what happened to being punk and being cool?

Now you have to be an activist, and that really is the new punk. That makes me very scared. It's so boring. It's so boring. Guys that preach politics, comics, shut the fuck up. Like, you can make a point, but guys that want to sit up there and teach a lesson, if they use the word platform, it's just teeth is shut your face. It's not, it's, my job is not to educate anybody.

If I tell my jokes and I talk about my life and there's something you relate to, that's great. That's what I hope for. That's how I hope. But I get emails from people going, hey, I'm glad you talked about liking transsexuals or having, blowing guy, whatever it is. And they say, I'm so glad you talked about that because I related to it. No one talks about.

That makes me feel good. But my job is not to go up there and teach a lesson. And any comic that thinks it is, you're a fucking idiot. Well, yeah, you got to keep those things separate. So I, for example, stopped doing stand-up precisely when I started giving my opinion about shit because I was like, this doesn't work. You either do this or you do this. And if you want to give serious commentary, you can if people take you seriously.

But then you can also be on stage doing that. That's not the same job. No, but you can do both. Like Carlin would do interviews and say really smart shit. Yeah. But on stage. And he did get a little pretty. at the end, but I think by that point, he was such a brilliant guy and his brain was so interesting.

Well, like, I just want to hear what you think. Yeah, it's why I like to be on him. Well, it's kind of like, it's with Trump too, who's Republican, but I watch him. He had a Miss Universe contest once, and this is like 10 years ago, I think, but there was a transgender girl who won and people on their board were trying to get her off. Like, she shouldn't be a winner. She's trans. But Donald Trump actually said, no, she should win.

She's a legitimate winner. And that, at least for me, being transgender, made me change at least a little bit of how I saw Trump. Absolutely. So I really enjoy that to see that from Trump. He would govern in a conservative way, though, but I don't think he personally cares either way. Like, he'd govern against abortion. But he'd tell me he's never thrown a model into a limo. Fucking, come on.

I mean, stop. Yeah, because I don't mind, you know, people criticizing Trump. because let's be honest, there's plenty to criticism. There's a lot to criticize. I just really don't like it when people make up stuff about him and put forward false criticisms because then I go, well, that's not true. And then they go, you're pro-Trump. You're going, no, you're just not being honest, all that's an error.

Or they have no sense of their own identity. Or they're just obsessed with Trump. They're obsessed with Trump. Like, I won't. Sometimes I think what he does is ridiculous and stupid and he sucks. Other times I think, yeah, it was a smart thing. But if you have a balance looking at it, people like, how the fuck could you? And it's like, shut up.

Your identity is boring. If your whole identity is your anti-Trump, you're a bore. You're a boring person. If your whole identity is based on your politics, you're fucking boring. It's like, I'm not interested. I'm not impressed. I don't think it's smart. I don't think like, fuck, there's a lesson teacher.

It's like, shut your mouth. Just, we all bat about 500. I'm right half the time and I'm wrong half the time. Yeah. And it's, you know, when I look at American comic, that's what I always loved. It was this kind of the, you know, the profane, the outrageous, kind of like Trump. Trump is really funny.

He's very America. Yeah, he is. Well, he used to say this about him, right? He's what every guy wanted to be and what every woman wanted to be with in America, which says a lot about America. But also, I remember, I think I've told the story on the show before. I remember watching, I think the original diehard. Is it the original? Yeah, it is the original diehard.

And this, my wife and I were watching it as a Christmas movie long after Trump had been elected. Right. By this point, he was evil, gracious, you know, all this stuff. And we're watching this thing. And there's a point in the movie where a guy has to come into like a telephone connection place and say to the woman who's running it, we're going to have to root all the calls for the city of New York through this one exchange. And this is a black woman, which is relevant to the conversation, because she goes, And I'm going to marry Donald Trump. Like, people forget he was an aspirational figure. He was the reference point for handsome, rich, eligible bachelor. Right.

And then he ran for politics and suddenly he became, like, they just changed his persona overnight. Yeah, it's really... I wish he texted me, not Jim. So do I. Trump is a bite in the pillow. Yeah. Just speak. It speaks to the power, I think, of media narratives about people.

They can just make you into whatever they want. Exactly. And that's why anybody who is a complete on one side, I just think it's a stupid person. I don't care how smart they sound. How is it in the UK? Is it Asplit as it is here? So I'm going to give you an example of what's happening in the UK when it comes to what's going on. So in Scotland, they introduced hate speech laws, which criminalizes public performance.

And the Edinburgh Festival is the largest arts and comedy festival in the world. So this piece of legislation says that if you perform something which is deemed to be hateful, then you can be prosecuted. So, and their definition of what is hateful is something that a reasonable person might find to be hateful. I mean, it's crazy. Trade up for interpretation. What is a reasonable person? And a reasonable person in one part of Scotland is a lot different than a reasonable person

in another part of Scotland. A reasonable person in Alabama feels a lot differently about abortion than a reasonable person in Maine. Right. So what the fuck is a reasonable person? Yeah. It's entirely insane because we all have our touch points about some things. There are some subjects you can make every joke about it. You're like, I don't care.

But you touch another subject. You go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. My dog got run over. Fuck you. Yeah. Like we all, it's times changed. Like, I had to stop devils advocating for Hitler speeches. I mean, all this.

There's certain things that are just obvious. No, mate, you should carry on. You sell out college campus, it's no problem. Go down to Columbia, mate. You get 12 rounds of applause. It's just a fucking, what a disaster. I love it. I love it because it's like they're fucking up their own graduation,

and it's like they're missing their own classes. Go ahead. I just don't care. It doesn't affect me. I'm not obsessed with it. I just don't want to pay for it. That's why I don't want to pay for people's college education. Right.

Right off their student debt with your taxes. I just, that kind of is irritating. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, do you ever feel that we've entered, like the term clown world is something that I don't really like. I like it because it's accurate. Yeah.

But we are in a clown world, aren't we? There are times where you just read about something like, I read, you told me yesterday. So we were walking down, walking down the road in New York. I'd had half an edible. I was feeling really nice. It was, we'd had a really great day. We'd just had a nice dinner. And then you went to me, oh, by the way, mate, there's a great.

there's a group of people who are storming the Met Gallery and they've broken in the gala and they've broken through the barriers whilst chanting for an interfaida. I'm like, what's going on? Oh, the kids. That's cute. The kids are not all right.

They don't know what they're doing. Yeah, they just, they know the word. They have no idea what it actually, what it would mean or just, they don't understand that a lot of people you think that you're rooting for. And by that, I mean, the political groups, they would hate your fucking guts.

They hate your fucking guts. I don't understand gay people who are really like, almost rooting for, rooting for civilians to not be killed is a lot different than rooting for Hamas or anything like that. If you're gay or if you're, you know, it's like your life is illegal there. What are you doing?

Yeah, well, the whole queer is for Palestine phenomenon. It's like they will throw you off a fucking roof. Yes, totally agree. It's insane. I had a friend who escaped his country in the Middle East and he was still in Islam and doing this thing. Meanwhile, his whole family, abandoned him. And I couldn't comprehend that as being this Norwegian non-religious. For me, it was

weird to see that you're still as religious in your home base. Meanwhile, you had to go through the UN and flee a country and get a new citizenship just because you're gay. That's crazy to me. Yeah, I haven't read my Quran cover to cover, but I'm not sure it's pro trans. Probably not. Although, did they even address that stuff? They probably didn't in religious text because it wasn't a thing then. But you know what? I will never ever travel to a middle. Eastern country. I won't do it. I mean, for what reason? Devine? I see many trans girls there, but why would I go when they can legally put me in jail if they wanted to? I don't want to support that with any pennies that I might have. Yeah, it sucks too, because I always wanted to go see the

Burge Tower or any of these things, but we can't, if I can't go there with her, it's like, I don't want to support either. I don't want to go to a place where the people disgrace me. I was just rather, you know, it's not. I found it really touching actually, you on Rogan, Jim, talking about how when the COVID restrictions hit, you literally packed your bag in an hour and went to Canada because Nikki couldn't get in the country. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, I had just gotten, my producer at the time was at the house,

and he just goes, he goes, they're going to close the Canadian border. It was a Wednesday. And I was like, what do you mean? And he goes, yeah, for the COVID. So I assumed it would be a few weeks, but I just, I couldn't picture not seeing her every other weekend. So I wound up just packing a suitcase, and I really was on the road in an hour.

talking to my manager the whole way up, who was calling Border Patrol, saying, hey, I know someone who might be coming through and they're like, send them home. We're not letting anybody in. We're not letting anybody in. But I wound up getting to the border. And the woman was, I knew she didn't want it to turn me away.

But I'm like, ah, my fiance is up there. She's having a panic attack. And I told her I'll be up there for a couple weeks. And then she let me through. Then I was there for 15 months. It was crazy. I can't believe how long I was out of the States. And you did just show up there?

Every morning. Yeah, I would broadcast. But the serious wasn't allowing people in the office. So we were all at home at that point. But I'm glad we did it. We got to live together for a year and see if it worked. Yeah, well, I... I never wanted to live in Canada, but I did for three years, three years.

Yeah, she went to school. Yeah. It was, it's crazy that it worked. But it became a real relationship. Like, you can't go through that. You can survive fucking COVID. I never lived a little over before. In a small apartment.

Yeah, one bedroom, small. With this manic old man. Yeah. No. It was, it was, yeah, we were in limbo because I just wanted to be in the States and live our real life. So being in Canada, you know, waiting to overcome a pot charge. Yeah, then not knowing if she'd ever get in, I really believed she wouldn't. And then I'm like, what do I do?

Like, I can't. I'll hate the United States. I'll have to leave. I couldn't imagine what I would do at my life if she didn't get in. Just because it took me five years to get in for a $100 pot charge, basically just smoking weed ones. Oh, really? And where was it? In Norway when I was 18. And so they were that strict?

You should have just come through the southern border. Yes, she didn't. Yes. They just sent to summons by mail when I was a police thing. And my mom just paid it. And $100 came on my record. And the guy goes, you need a waiver. And that's a nightmare.

It's because you have to go a federal drug conviction. And now in many states in the U.S. you can buy weed legally. Yeah. It's not federally legal. So it still affects immigration. Right. If it's federally legal. But right now, even if you're here,

like legally, totally, be careful about saying if you smoke pot because they can still fuck you with it because federally is still a problem. Yeah, we don't smoke. No, no, no, nobody I know does. So when the COVID came, and obviously you went to Canada,

there are a lot of people. You saw this shifting from comedians in California and New York, and the other blue states as well, but mainly from New York and California, wake up and go, I need to get out. If you think about Seguerra,

Rogan, et cetera, et cetera. How come you didn't want to do that? I don't have the same tax concerns that Rogan and Seguer have. I think that Austin, for them, besides the fact that there's a lot more freedom there, also gives a much different tax because there's no state tax. So you keep a lot more of your money there. And I think that they would probably be both sick and tired. Joe's a gun guy.

He likes to go hunting and stuff. I imagine there's a lot of things that just got to him there. the crime was going up. You know what I mean? I do, but I have to say, Jim, from speaking to Joe, we've been on her show a few times, and you've been on it loads as well. I think the COVID restrictions really pissed me.

Maybe that was the final straw. You really pissed him on. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. Were you as concerned about it with the stuff that was happening here, or was it more of just like you wanted to? I only cared about her getting it. I was in such a rage

that we couldn't do anything that the embassies were closed. Well, in Canada was crazy. It was crazy. Canada was insane. Yeah. It was completely shut down. You couldn't even go to a restaurant.

needed to get the vaccine. I mean, you were not even arrested in almost if you didn't get vaccinated. Eight o'clock curfews being in the house, eight o'clock. So we live right behind the bell center. Whereabouts in Canada was this? We were in Montreal in a building. It was called Rocket Bell. It was right by the bell center. And these people all speak French, even the guy in my lobby, but he knows that I don't speak French. And he's like, bonchure. And I'm like, oh, fuck you. I hate French. I can't stand it. And I know they speak English well. You should come to England. You would be accepted. I hope so.

I still, fuck you. I still remember his face. I hate him. I'm curious as well. We were talking, obviously, about, like, liberal and conservative. What I found really annoying about the whole COVID situation is the most liberal places became the most like, you will wear the mask. Do you know what I mean?

Like, it was a complete flip. Yeah, it was. And it became the most restrict. I wanted people to get vaccinated, but I just wanted everything to be over. I didn't care. It wasn't for me a statement or politics. I just wanted this whole thing to be over so she and I could continue and she could get in the fucking country. Like, you know what I mean?

The whole COVID thing was- Oh, yeah, because it backed up the embassies too, like by years. They're slow as it is, and we knew we had to go through Homeland Security. And they only used to post office. They're the worst thing. The U.S. government literally operates like it's 1947, the way they, everything is slow. Everything is a hard copy through. There's no just... You should come to the UK, mate.

You're going to find out this is pretty good. I think I would love Scotland. It's very similar to Norway. Yeah, until you make a joke and then you get put in prison. Oh, no. I also haven't seen the weather. Yeah. It's rainy, right, kind of shit?

Yeah, it's gyrical. But to me, that was one of the things that really changed the way that I viewed the world because when the restrictions came in and when I saw friends that I would classify as liberal for one of a better way of putting it, and they were like, yeah, let's shut more down. Let's introduce more curfews. yeah, if you don't take the vaccine, maybe we should castrate you. And you're just going, what the hell is going on? And actually, if you had told me a few years ago that you were going to,

that I was going to want to move to Texas and to do the show from Texas, I'd look at you like you were mental. But now I'm like, well. Well, in the middle of the pandemic, we literally sat down with our producer. And we were like, if they do this next thing, we have to leave. You know, that's how bad it was getting. Yeah, it's crazy. And I wish I didn't hate Greg Abbott and Rhonda Santas.

I wish I didn't hate these governors for their social stuff so much, for their obsession with trans people and sexuality. I just, I wish I didn't hate them so much because I like that about those states. But they are just as crazy, though. I mean, I'm against having drag queens in school. So I do, there's crazies from both sides too.

I don't care about that. As long as they're not sexual. If it's some campy's drag queens, let Nicky to tell them. No, I just think it's completely unnecessary. I mean, if you're going to have even laughs in school, why does it have to be from a drag queen? I don't get it.

And why would you push to have this drag queen? And a lot of them are sexualized, by the way. Those are the problems. Most of them are, in my opinion. I mean, you're caked up with makeup in a thong underneath. I don't need to see all that. Well, I'll give you an example.

Let's say you walked in to teach a class looking the way you do. That would be inappropriate, right? We'd all agree with that. In this dress, 110%. I disagree with it would be. because everybody would pay attention. It would be terrible,

and I don't think that these drag queens should be in school. I don't get it. Why? If they're dressed really sexually or anything like that, yeah, of course. But that's any person. But as far as just being a drag queen

and being campy and silly, I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody who is being over-the-top campy as long as they're not being sexual. So I just connect them to nightclub mentality. I don't care if you're just a side, or drag queen or whatever out in a parade. I just, I don't think they should be in school at all.

I don't get that. That's just me. I don't, I don't get it. I have to say, I side with you on that argument. Yeah, I don't get it at all. Generally, and it's good to hear you say it, because when I say it, I sound like a bigot way, as you can get away with it.

No, but I mean, it makes perfect sense. I never had drag queens in my Norwegian lecture teaching history. I mean, there was no drag queens. But if they have it where, like instead of saying drag queens shouldn't be there, how about any person who's behaving or dressed in a sexual manner? There's a big difference between a campy drag queen. But most drag queens are camping. You don't, but I'm saying why do you need a Boy Scout master?

Why do you need a clown? Why do you need any other person? Why do you need a fireman? Why do you need any person to come in? I was raised with no costumes, no clowns. We just had fucking school. Norwegians are very stiff. I don't understand what's going on with these costumes and tiger ears.

What? No. See, Dickey, I totally agree with you. And also, you know, I'm keen to you. to explore why DeSantis and Abbott, what your issues with them specifically are. Because we have had people on the show to talk about some, people say they're banning books, right? They're not banning books. They're removing books from schools. It's not the same as banning a book, which are very heavily sexualized as well. I don't have a problem with that

personally. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. Some of the, didn't some of the books, and I don't know all the time, didn't some, weren't there some ones that got caught? I mean, liberals wanted to take off Huck Finn because the Edwards. So every group is, again, they're all the same people. They've had plenty of things that they want to remove. And they want to take down 200-year-old statues. I just, I don't care about it.

You know what? I don't mind that. Fuck statues. I'm sick in time. What's your problem with statues? I don't care about them either way. They're not relevant to me. I don't care about some civil war asshole who is fighting for slavery. It's not that the statue offends me, but I don't care about it. It doesn't mean anything to me

and anyone whose identity is tied into a statue is a fucking idiot. I just don't care if the statue is 200 years old. You're just finding something to complain about. I just really don't care. It's like we have Nazi bunkers in Norway. What are you going to bomb those? No, people go and look at them and stand inside. Yeah.

Practice shooting. When the cap? You know, what's wrong with that? Close your eyes. Think of a better world, you know. But it's interesting that you say that because, again, this is one of the things that we do. We go, oh, this person is trans. They think this way.

This person is black. They think this way. And you go, well, maybe everybody's an individual and they all think their own way. Yes. Meanwhile, I say what I say about drag queens in school and I'm the conservative. I'm not a conservative. It's crazy. You just don't want sexualized things in school.

Or drag queens in school, period. I don't get it. I don't agree with that, but I do think that anything sexual I shouldn't be. Of course. I mean, anything sexualized... And a lot of trans or gay people will probably resent me for saying that, but I, my Nordic mind doesn't get it. I don't get it.

Yeah. And it's also as well, you know, some things are just not appropriate for school. Yeah. Where did this become a controversial thing to say? Francis used to be a teacher. Exactly. You know. It's a recurring.

He brings it up every else. I do. I do. I've still got PTSD from it. And if they're just going to sit there and read a book, Can it just be a person? I mean, why the makeup and the wig does he do anything for me? And guys like DeSantis, the reason I don't like him.

And there's a lot that he does that I love. I love that he cracked down on those shit squatters. There's a lot of things DeSantis has done that I think are fucking great. But I hate him because the whole obsession with sexuality and like if you mention homosexuality or trans people to a kid, there's a way to talk about it where you're not telling anybody you have to be this way.

But it also, people tell, what good is do to tell that to a third grader. Because if the kid's gay and he's a third grader and he's being beaten up by people who hear the word faggot at home, well maybe now if in school they say, hey, you're human and it's okay to be this way, A, the kid won't get treated as badly. And B, maybe the kid knows, hey, I'm not broken because I feel this way. So there is a way to talk about it where you're not convincing people of anything sexual. Yes. And I think that just wiping that off the table is terrible. May I also say that the other side too is pushing for very young people to do sexual reassignment surgeries and these are but these are the gay groups that do these these

actual funded by government gay right groups they will go on about as a group and support that nine and 10 and 11 year olds can get that surgery with their parents signature and listening to that what like that's fucking insane that's way different yeah that's insane that's that's different So I think that's why people like Ron DeSantis probably says these things. What's that? Okay. Ron DeSantis doesn't. I think that's where the anger comes from, though, when it's both from the both sides.

No, I will tell you. Look at the Republicans said that there's, if you look at the Republican charter in Texas, they don't like gays either. Like that doesn't come from just a modern common sense 10-year-old transition discussion. This comes from a deep down dislike of the entire subject. That's very true. I think what you guys are having the argument about is actually a microcosm of what's happening in broader society. I think your point, Jim, is entirely correct, which is there are some people who've had to kind of keep it quiet for a while where they just don't like sexual minorities. They think it's wrong. They think it's a moral. They don't want anyone to be able to get married if they're not a man and a woman. And those people have had to keep a quiet for a while because it became unsayable, right? And so now, The other side, Nikki, that you're talking about is this is 100% happening. We have had endless people on the show, like, covering this stuff about sexualization of children.

Like, they're literally showing them porn about anal sex in school. It's not porn. It's a book, but it's basically the same. Sure. Right. How often are they going to learn? So you've got that going on. You've got, as you say, Nikki, I don't know if they're gay groups, but they're various LGBT, whatever groups,

pushing this stuff onto young people. And that's where normal people like us are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is too far. By the way, I don't like it. I'm the only one who's not normal. Well, man, let's accept you're not normal. So you've got these two sides on the extremes. And then the overwhelming majority of people in the middle

who are like, we're absolutely fine with gay people. We're absolutely fine with trans people being trans. And we're not for people being drag queen story hour for six-year-olds, putting fucking, dollar bills in their G-strings. Sure. Right? And we're not in favor of porn in schools and all this other stuff. That's where I would say like 95% of the people are. And then you've got these two retard sides fighting over it basically. Yeah, that's true. Like the, uh, the, uh, the,

the, uh, the Ontario woodshop teacher. That was funny. Who had the greatest tits I've ever seen. Yeah. Magnificent. But that fucking asshole. That asshole. And again, the Canadians had to, they had to do it through the court system. because everything is litigated now. But to, oh, no, they're just, it's a glandular condition. The fact that that person got a second chance is like insane to me. I mean, if you're in front of kids with these eight double-h-sized tets with the nipples showing through the shirt, big nipples, yeah.

Then I know I can't comprehend how the Canadian board gave this maniac a second chance. Yeah, because it's crazy. It felt like pure fetish shit. And again, that's all great. But if you walk into school with giant tits and a miniskirt and you're not, you're not transgender, you're just, there's something about doing that in front of, that's different. That's shit crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.

And then all of a sudden to go, we thought it was a glandular condition. So you lied? That guy shouldn't get rehired just because he lied about what was going on with in the physical. I just don't care about the pronoun thing. I mean, when I was in Canada and I was applying for a job, they asked me my pronouns. I just, I don't care about that. I mean, I get that they're trying to better it for people like me. but it doesn't make me feel better as much.

It makes me feel more dysphoric. How come? Just because then I feel like I have to think about it and I have to prove it to these people like, hey, make sure you call me a she or it's like in the air. I hate that. I hate when I have to re-clarify to people, better call me a she.

So how do we resolve that? Sorry, Jim, I'm just curious because it's interesting you say that. If I was talking to Jim and I was saying, well, what a Nicky, he, like, How would that go down though? Well, I mean, like, I guess I could say that He probably wouldn't be happy. Please call me a she, but I'm not going to do that.

If you're not going to call me a she on automatic, then my mission has failed. So, yeah. I would get annoyed if I felt it was on purpose. There's a difference between making an honest mistake and somebody who's making a statement by misgendering. Like, somebody who's going, so he, and it's like, you know, as a stand-up, you kind of know,

you read people, you know what they're doing. That's where my point came from with the hate crime, where someone said they are deliberately calling me he, although they know I refer myself to a she, and they took them to court, and I'm just like, no, no. And the pronoun thing, just being integrated in society, I don't know, I just think it's kind of shallow. I don't know why, but I do.

I think people ask about it also so they don't get in trouble. I think part of the reason people say, what's your preferred pronoun, is because if they make a mistake, we've taught that you're gonna get punished now, so they wanna know, how do you wanna be referred to so I don't get fucking fired. I don't like it.

Yeah, but I think that's why they're doing it. Do you don't think that the best way to resolve those mistakes, though, is just like personal conversation. Well, actually, I prefer if you call me. And by the way, like some people may say, well, I don't want to do that because I have certain beliefs about that, so I'm just going to call you Nikki.

Yes. That's okay, too, isn't it? Yes, by name. Absolutely. I'm not going to say that word. But yeah. It does get where some people are just dug in and they are just doing it,

like somebody who works for the state and refuse like that fucking asshole who refused to issue gay marriage licenses and people said she was exercising religious freedom even though her religion... I'm not familiar in this case. I forget her name. She was in Alabama, I think, or Arkansas. That makes sense. I forget, yeah. I remember Mike Huckabee went to bat for her because they thought she was defending a religion but it's like your religion

is interfering with your ability to do your job so quit your job and God will pay your bills. I mean, if you can't do your job because of a religious belief and you shouldn't be in that job. Yeah, agreed. Nikki, we spoke a little bit about this where we were talking about child transition and this is something that i find really interesting because in the uk we've had the cast report where we've had where it's a lot of gender clinics it has been shown that they've not been giving kids the required support and it's actually something that i agree with said that you shouldn't be giving puberty blockers to kids who are pre-pubescent and young kids where do you stand on this so i started

when I was like 14, 15. And even back then, for me personally, being a teenager at that time, I felt the clock ticking. I'm like, if I get this beard, dysphoria was real to me. So I felt it in my heart that the clock was ticking

and I wanted to be on these hormones ASAP. In Norway, however, though, you can't just go to a doctor and get hormones. You've got to be referred by a psychiatrist to the national hospital and then they have to evaluate you. The most interesting part, you have to live and show it to them one year as the opposite gender in order for them to even consider you as a valid trans person.

I think it's right. I kind of love that they did that. So, I don't know, you've got to have a team of people to evaluate you, I think, an endocrinologist. I don't think you can just be 12 years old and start on hormones by some doctor. I think there should be a team. You don't think a male prisoner should be able to say I'm a woman now and get sent to a woman's prison? No, I've heard that happen. It does. That's really difficult, isn't it?

Because we had this case in the UK, we had several cases in UK where actually rapists said, well, I'm a woman now. Yeah. And they were put in a women's prison. Crazy. But then, and the issue is always difficult because, well, obviously they shouldn't be in a women's prison. But I'm not saying this won't happen to you, but if you were to be convicted of a crime, where should you go?

Well, I look at it this way. I have a mental illness diagnosis given to me by the government of Norway. So I believe that it's called transgenderism F.64 or something. It's an actual mental illness. And I believe all trans people should have that diagnosis. I sincerely mean that. So you think that being transgender is a mental illness? Yes.

Interesting. Interesting. You're not the first person to have said that, including several trans people on our show? I wouldn't say yes, five years ago, being young and whatever, but 110% is a mental illness. So what's changed their mind? Just because you realize that if depression can be a mental illness and classified as that, then how the hell is this not? How is the dysphoria that I felt in my heart at 14 so real to me? How is that not a mental illness? How is that out something going on in the brain and in my system. It's 110% something physical.

So when you say dysphoria, can you explain because there's a lot of people who, thankfully, have never suffered gender dysphoria? We both know people who have, and it sounds awful. What is that like to have gender dysphoria? Like if your skin feels like a man's skin, if you feel stubble, if the hair is short, yeah, that would give me real dysphoria. And what does that mean to give you real dysphoria? Because if I, well, I can just tell you, I'd rather be dead than live life as a man. I really sincerely mean that. If I was just a man, I would hate that.

I don't know how I would operate. I don't know how I would be a man. Yes. Only in Jim's mouth. I don't know. I think that it would be terrible if I live life as a man. And ever since I was this young, I walked like this, you know, the gay hand. Could you say that I was just gay?

Yeah. But then when the dysphoria hit me, it's just, I don't know. I've been wearing heels since I was five, six. It's definitely something there. And it's not just me. All these other trans people is the same thing. So I don't really think I believe that the world really understands it. Even the National Hospital in Norway.

I don't think they perfected what this is yet. But as far as their work on me or whatever, I think it's the most reasonable to get a value in there. Well, it's clearly worked with you. And this is kind of one of the issues with this issue. of being so politicized because what's happened is there are people like you for whom it's exactly the right way to go and it's it works out. But there are also people who kind of get sucked into it because they have some other kind of mental issues. And then they get the surgeries. Right. The bottom surgery. Oh my God, it's crazy. And it's one of the reasons why I didn't

even get top surgery just because I feel like, well, that for me wouldn't be very natural. Now I'm putting on this caricature of this person, this woman. I just, I want to try to do it my way and be who I. Give it some time. That's really what I can tell these trans people. You should give it extra time. And I thought I had no time in the world when I had transitioned. Yeah, because there's plenty of people who think they're transgender and aren't.

Got to give it time. There's people who think there's something and then it turns out, oh, I'm not back. And 10 years ago at the National Hospital, if I'm not mistaken, would castrate you if you wanted to transition. Which I'm so happy that I live in a day and age where I'm not castrated. Me too. But there's also a weird thing with being. trans because I love my dick. Does that make me trans? Some people can say no. Trans people too, because they're so different levels. Or does it just make me a she male? I thought I was going to

have the surgery. And me now would never say that. And I think that's the core of it, which is that young people are being pushed into having these surgeries into having these. Because it's the norm. Yes. So I thought I was going to get the facial feminization surgery and the push I am so fucking happy. I didn't get that pussy. Imagine if you had told me you were going to and now I'm just hearing this for the first time. What?

Yeah, but I gave that time and if I didn't, maybe I wouldn't be sitting here with a botched-up vagina that I would feel terrible about. It's not real. It's just not real to me. I'm sorry, I just can't comprehend it. It's not. I just think it just shows you that whenever anything becomes ideological, then all these little nuances of people's individuality

in their lives, And the fact that it's the right decision for one person, it's not the right decision for another. It all just gets thrown out of the window and you end up with this broad narrative of either, you know, everyone should be trans or like trans people shouldn't be allowed to live their lives. And it's not like that. My thing that he's right. Like, it's not, I don't think they know 100%. Everyone, like anyone who thinks they 100% understand exactly what it is. I don't think they know yet.

I think they're working on it. I think like, is there something in the brain? Well, they find a chemical someday that makes a person transgender that we don't know exist now. Is there something in the brain chemistry or in the body that they'll find 10 years from now? Because it's definitely different than me just being gay. I mean, then I would be a man. I just couldn't do that. It's definitely something else.

And the mind, it's like, Nikki and I have fought enough times for me to know. It's a woman's argument. Like, I'm not arguing a man. That is the most offensive set on this show so far. But it's, you know what I mean? Like, I've argued with every girlfriend I've had. And it's the exactly the same. It's the same.

And not even the harm I was because it's the same thought process. I don't mean irrational emotions. And a lot of guys, ever since I became public, they're like, well, aren't you just a cross-stress if you don't have the boobs? And I'm like, why would I get the boobs just so you can nut all over? Like, no. Not going to get the tets. It's not, yeah.

I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, you and me both. No, I wouldn't like fake tits. I love my boobs. I don't want you to change anything. No. If she wanted to, fine. but it's like, make sure the right reasons.

For trans people, time really is your best friend. Yeah, the hourglass. Take the time. Take your time. Extra time. I mean, I'm talking years. I've been on hormones for 10 years now, more than that. I feel great.

I wouldn't want. So happy I didn't do anything permanent. Yeah, and I think that's really important. So if somebody is gender dysphoric and they're thinking, oh, I need to go on this path, what would your advice be? Give it 10 years. And that's exactly the opposite of what we're being told, because we're being told, no, if you don't transition this kid now, they're going to commit suicide, they're going to self-harm. I do understand young people's mind, though, when it comes to hormones, because I was one of them.

I do understand what it's like to be 15. I do think you can start some sort of hormone replacement therapy from 14, 15 up. I do believe that, but under supervision. I started at 15 on hormones. I'm still in the exact same dosage. Feel great. And I'm followed up by an endocrinologist. These trans people, you need an endocrinologist.

Very important. And my friend, she's Norwegian. She went to the hospital too. They pay for the surgeries. So she got the bottom surgery. It's a complete complication. She had necrosis on her thigh. This much of her thigh, they had to remove,

just black skin. So it's a real procedure. I think she's happy now, though. Bless her, but... I think people massively underestimate and misrepresent a lot of this stuff. Because it's a crazy thing to do in order to put on a bikini or jeans,

which I think a lot of these girls is why they're getting the surgery too. And I've talked to a lot of trans girls about it. Like just who said they wanted to get surgery. And some have said exactly that. Like, I want to be able to go to the beach. And to me, that becomes a very, very visual thing for other people.

And then I've heard some girls just go, I fucking hate the way it feels. I don't like it. It doesn't belong. I've heard different answers from different people. So probably different levels of dysphoria. I don't look down at my cock in screaming agony. Some people probably do.

Yeah. And it's... I was blessed. Jim does. But I tell you one issue that I have with part of this discussion, and it's actually the use of language. So, for instance, when people talk about top surgery, when they say female to male.

That really upsets me because I had someone who was very close to me who had a double mastectomy and I had to help care for her. Is that a top? Yeah. Back to the language. Yeah. Back to the language. And they go, it's top surgery.

And I go, no, it's not. It's a double mastectomy. This is a very, very serious operation, which has very real chances of complication. And if complication does set in, you can die. This is, and the same with bottom surgery. I'm like, this isn't, can we please talk about this on us? Oh, you don't like the euphemisms. Yeah, I don't like the euphemisms.

Well, euphemisms are designed to hind reality. That's what they're for, right? So when you say, what Francis is saying, when you say top surgery, you make it sound easy, you make it sound convenient, you make it sound like it's, oh, you know, I just had top surgery and I had a cup of coffee. It's not like that. The girls have taught, I've actually had girls say bottom surgery, and I think the impression I got from them was that it's just such a,

personal thing to discuss, that it's an easy way to discuss a personal thing, as opposed to hiding the fact that it's, you know, your dick being reconstructed into a vagina. I think some of them had said bottom surgery, because it's a very personal thing, and it's just, it's a more pleasant way to discuss such personal stuff. That was the impression I got from the girls I talked to. I just think it's two very big operations and surgeries. Yeah. Try to use the most medical term as possible. It's scare these people. Don't get that. that breast's mastectomy.

Well, anyway, we got to wrap up, guys. It's been absolutely great talking to you. Before we go to our fans' questions and ask you the usual question we end with, what are you guys up to? I see you've done a, you've started a podcast. How is that going? It's good.

The YouTube channel is Nikki and Jim, NYC. We do a podcast, but I'm not allowed to do audio because I have a radio contract, so it's only on YouTube. It's the only thing I'm allowed to do. And we have, like, vlog. showing little bits of our lives. And it's great.

It's something I've wanted to do for a long time. He works a lot. Yeah. I do laundry and clean and go shopping. On brand. Yes. Fantastic stuff. The last question we always end with is always the same.

What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be? Good question. You can have your own answer each. Yeah, what do you think? What do you think? Trans people. No, I'm kidding. I think we're talking about.

Everyone is obsessed. What I would say this, what I wish people would discuss more is this obsession people have with not having just who they are be their identity, meaning aligning their identity with politics or outside issues. Like the problem is not liberals or conservative. It's people's need to marry themselves to something bigger to feel like they matter. People's need to marry themselves to a larger cause to feel like they're important instead of just kind of living and dying in their own opinion. I feel like we should spend more time to appreciate the Freemasons because they try their whole life to become better until the day you die. Better posture, better eating, better living, better humor. Everything has to just be better and better. So I'm going to try to live by the code of the Freemasons. I did not expect that.

Are you a Freemason? No, I don't think they like me. They don't like women, I think. Freemasonry for trans people. I'm going to make that and I'll be the first lady So you like that code? Yeah

Yes But they won't let you in Why wouldn't you become a better person Of yourself every day? Well that I agree with complete I'm not sure you have to be a free mace Yeah Plus you do the handshake

Don't you do a little tickle on the handshake Is it the little finger tick? Yes You like that as well? Yes Well there we go Classy Francis is going to get one after the show

All right guys Well listen It's been great chatting to you And head on over to locals Where we ask Nikki And Jim, your questions. Here's a possibly too personal, but hopefully not too contentious question for Jim. What is your attraction spectrum?

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