TRIGGERnometry - PSYCHIATRIST: How the Transgender Movement Happened - Miriam Grossman MD

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Miriam Grossman MD is a psychiatrist and specialist in child and adolescent psychiatry. Her practice currently focuses on gender-distressed young people and their parents. Dr Grossman features in the Daily Wire’s ‘What Is A Woman?’ documentary. She is the author of five books including ‘You’re Teaching My Child WHAT?’ - a critique of modern American sex education - and, most recently, ‘Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness’ - available here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1510777741/ SPONSORED BY: ExpressVPN. Go to: https://www.expressvpn.com/trigger/ and get an extra 3 months free on a one-year package! Become a Premium Member to receive exclusive benefits https://triggernometry.supercast.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube:  @xentricapc   Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Gender is the term that was first introduced by John Money, psychologist John Money. His proof of concept failed miserably. It could not have failed more. money was sexually abusing those kids, and he was showing them pornography, and he was also

for incest. He was publicly pro-incest. So this is a wicked guy. When I have looked at some of these theories, when I have looked at the people who have put forward these theories, who have created these theories, there seems to be a link between these types of theories and pedophilia. am I wrong in making that assertion? People like John Money, they want to promote the idea that we are all sexual from cradle to grave. So if children are sexual, well, then why are we preventing them from engaging in sexual behavior with adults? I mean, adults are who love them. What's wrong with that?

There is a link. There is a real link. Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissin. And this is a show for you. If you want honest conversations, we're fascinating people. Our terrific guest today is a child and adolescent psychiatrist.

She's author of many books, the latest of which is called Lost in Transnation. And you may have seen her very important contributions to what as a woman, the documentary that we've covered on here. Dr. Miriam Grossman, welcome to Trigonometry. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Oh, it's going to be great. Before we go into the conversation itself, tell everybody a little bit about your background. How are you where you are?

What has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us across the Atlantic? Well, as you said, I'm a child and adolescent and adult psychiatrist, a medical doctor. Let's see, how did I get to be sitting in this chair right now and talking to you? I guess the short answer would be I always had an interest in. female biology. I was always fascinated by the female menstrual cycle and pregnancy and maternal child bonding. And that's always been my first love in science. Now, I have been seeing children and adolescents and families for many decades in my office. And most recently, I've been seeing kids who express some distress over being boys or girls and their parents.

Now, I have done a lot of research into this field of, let's call it, gender ideology, or in my book, I call it a belief system. And I have concluded that it is a utterly unscientific without medical basis. this system of beliefs that is being thrust on us, foisted on us by a movement, a social, political movement, turbocharged movement. And the victims here primarily are the children and their families.

There are other victims as well. I believe that all of society are victims, but I'm focused, since I am a psychiatrist, I'm focused on what's happening with the children, with their parents, and I am deeply alarmed and angry about what I've been seeing for the past few years in my office, and I felt that a book is necessary to help these parents.

They tell me that when the announcement was made in their home, mom, dad, I'm not your son, I'm your daughter. When that kind of announcement is made, they were blindsided. They were shocked. They never expected it. They didn't know how to respond. And they then took their trial to a gender affirming clinic or a gender affirming therapist. And that ended up being the worst mistake they could ever have made.

So I felt that a book is necessary not only to have. help the parents that are currently going through this crisis at home, but in order to help parents prevent such a crisis, and so to speak, to inoculate their children and their families from this dangerous belief system entering and gaining a hold with one of their kids. Once that happens, it can be very difficult to get the child out. So my book is called Lost in Transnation, a child psychiatrist guide out of the madness. And I put my heart and soul into that book. I've written other books.

I wrote four other books. I never put so much heart and soul into any book as I have this book. And that is because I have seen such such. suffering and shattered lives that I decided I'm really going to devote, I mean, I'm at the end of my career, but I am going to devote the years that I have left to fighting this. And so that's how I got to be sitting in this chair in front of you right now. That makes perfect sense, Miram. And it's a real pleasure to have you on the show. And I can't wait to talk about your book, particularly I became a parent recently. And so I know that this is kind of something that a lot of

parents are having to now think about, unfortunately. But before we get to that, one of the things I wanted to speak with you about, we've had all sorts of people on the show to talk about, you know, whistleblowers from transgender clinics and physicians and parents and so on. But one thing I wanted to delve deeply into with you first is just some very basic questions that are still being debated in our society. Is there such a thing as gender? Okay, well, let's see. What am I going to do with that particular question? So that can be, we can go in different directions here. We can talk about language and how a certain lexicon that has been created by this social movement and this vocabulary has been forced upon us. That's one direction. The other direction we could go in is to talk about biology. So let me first. go to the biology. Let's just get certain things straight, you know, from the get-go. So we are mammals. Mammals are dimorphic in terms of their sex. There's two sex.

Sex is male and female. And the way that that is determined whether a person is male or female is you look at their reproductive systems and you see whether that reprobts, you see whether that reproductive system is organized around creating sperm or eggs. Now, it's one or the other. That doesn't mean that every single human being is fertile. There are people that are infertile. But that's besides the point. Whether they are not fertile is not the point. The point is whether the reproductive system is fundamentally designed around the possibility of creating a reproductive system. The point is, eggs or sperm and every single human being would fall into one of those categories. Well, okay, wait, I'm just going to, just let me say something here. And by the way,

I almost chopped my finger off yesterday in the kitchen. So your audience should just understand that's why I have this bandage. I'm fine. No worries. There are extremely rare individuals. These individuals at one time were called hermaphrodites and they are now called intersex. And some of those intersex people, you know, a minority of them, they may have both male and female elements in their reproductive system. and I have had a patient like that who had both testicles that were undeveloped and an undeveloped uterus. So, you know, and chromosomally also was an anomaly. So that person you could argue is, is truly.

and intersex, you know, unclear how to identify this person. But the numbers of babies being born that fit into that category are extraordinarily rare. And what this belief system of this transgender belief system is foisting on us and on children is the belief that we all fall within some sort of a spectrum of male and female, with male and female only being the two extremes at each end. But then there's an infinite number of points in between those two extremes, and we have to validate all these possible identities, and that nothing is pathology, nothing is abnormal,

normal. These are all variations of human expression. Now, to get back to your question, what is gender? Gender is the term that was first introduced in the 50s by John Money, psychologist John Money at Johns Hopkins University. He was a famous sexologist and psychologist just whose main area of study were these individuals that I just described, intersex individuals, babies, then called hermaphrodites. And his main interest was in, how is that assignment made? Now, there's the word assignment, okay? That's a big word, right? Assignment, big, big word. I'll get to that in a minute. How is, how are those kids assigned male or female when they're born? Okay, we're talking, this is the 50s, the 60s. You got to wrap the baby immediately in either a pink or a blue blanket.

We don't have those pink. Right now we have, you know, for a long time, those blankets that the newborns are wrapped in for decades now are striped, blue and. and pink, at least in the US. Do you have that there? No, I don't think we have a specific color, but I'm sure it'll be rainbow colors before we know it. So it used to be, I mean, when I was doing my training and working in the delivery room, there were pink or blue blankets. And obviously, that's a very big deal.

What is the very, what is the first thing, if you haven't had an ultrasound and you don't know ahead of time? what is the first thing that the doctor or midwife is going to say, congratulations, it's a boy, congratulations, it's a girl. What happens if a baby is born and they're not sure if it's a boy or a girl? So these were the cases that John Money was fascinated with. And he proposed that we, there's the, he introduced the word, gender and gender identity to refer to our sex as separate from our genitals. So he invented this idea that we have a psychological sex, not just a biological sex, but a psychological

sex in our mind, and that we are born gender neutral. So that when we're born, even a normal child, he proposed, is born without any propensity or, you know, masculine or feminine qualities. Yes, there were certain physical characteristics, obviously, that were different. And John Money would say things like, well, females, they lactate, they menstruate, and they gestate. Okay, meaning they, you know, have their periods, their breasts produce milk, and they get pregnant and carry a child and deliver a child. But aside from those areas, everything else is imposed by society, a social construct. So all the sort of so-called feminine qualities of being nurturing and, you know, preferring. to play with dolls instead of trucks and interest in the more nurturing professions and being more

maybe verbal and articulate. I mean, all these kind of stereotypical things. So John Money proposed that this is all imposed by society. a social construct. But in addition, he came up with this revolutionary theory that because that's the case, and we are all born gender neutral, that therefore a boy could be successfully raised as a girl and a girl as a boy, it all dependent on environment.

So this was at a time in society when there was a great debate going on, nurture versus nature. Okay? nurture being our families and our parents and siblings and teachers and our, all of, all of the messages that we get from our environment versus nature. What is inborn? What are the role of our chromosomes, the role of our biology, our hormones, okay? Nature versus nurture. So that was a big debate at the time. Now, John Money, theory that we are born gender neutral and that it was going to be society that's going to

determine if a boy feels like a boy and acts like a boy and it was not his biology he proposed that in order for this to happen to raise a boy as a girl a girl as a boy it had to happen before the age of two and a half or three. So that was his big theory. Now I'll just throw in here and I explain this in depth in the book. And I asked the question, when you have someone that devotes their life to a particular cause to promoting a certain theory and idea, and he really did devote his life to this idea that I just described.

have to ask why. Why is that particular idea so, so important to them? I'm a psychiatrist, right? I'm a shrink. So that's what I do. I try to figure people out. So I tried to figure out John Money. Why was this theory so important to him? And as you will learn, he actually, when he did his research, this experiment on this theory and the results, were negative. He refused to acknowledge those results. That's how much, how important it was to him, that his theory be proven correct. And when it was proven incorrect, big time, he did not announce that, he did not acknowledge that. So why? Why was this so important to John Money that a person has not only a physical sex, but a psychological sex, which is their gender, and that they don't

have to match. Well, if you look at his writings, and he wrote a lot, he was prolific, you find that John Money had a very difficult childhood. He was raised in New Zealand on a farm, and his father was a alcoholic who had outbursts of rage and violence. And his behavior was completely unpredictable, as most alcoholics are. And little John grew up in a home in which he was beaten by his father, and he witnessed his mother being beaten by his father as well. Now, John was a boy who was a small stature, and he was a thoughtful child, and he was not a stereotypical boy who was out there getting into fights and being aggressive. And he wrote about his childhood that he realized that it.

might be better for women if not only animals, but men were gelded. Gelded, of course, meaning castrated. Again, he grew up on a farm. He saw animals being gilded, I would imagine. I don't know for a fact. But he knew about gelding male animals. And he wrote that it might be better for women and better for the world if men were gelded. The true feminist. Now, he also wrote, and this is most telling, John Money wrote, I bear the evidence of man's vile masculinity. I don't know if I got every word there.

I think that's right. Something about bearing the mark or bearing the evidence of man's, you know, of vile masculinity. other words, his genitals. So if we were to diagnose John Money today, we would say he could have had what we call gender dysphoria, which is an aversion, a feeling of discomfort, severe discomfort with your genitals and with your biological sex. So I'm proposing that John Money had gender just for you. So gender is a concept invented by this very troubled guy in the 50s and 60s,

and yet the idea that gender exists is everywhere now. Am I hearing you correctly if we summarize that, that it's actually BS? There's no such thing as gender in humans or an animal. No, I wouldn't say that because there are many, many people that do experience this kind of psychological sex called gender. What I would say is the problem here is not that gender doesn't exist. It's saying that gender or gender identity is primary, is more important than your physical identity and that everyone has to, you know, bow down and gesticulate to their own or others' perception, their own, you know, perception of their gender identity, that that is primary. And even if a child is five years old, that if the moment that that boy says, I'm a girl,

we're supposed to all say, okay, you're a girl. What name do we use? What do you want to wear? Let's get a, let's grow your hair out. And, and, and, and imagining that they are not going to pay a price for that for denying their biological sex that is my argument so what i am saying is that this idea and it's and it is simply an idea it's not hard science it's not something we can measure okay biological sex we can see it we see it under the microscope okay you see the chromosomes you see the egg you see the sperm you can measure it you can take pictures of it you can study it using the method. Gender is not something that we have, we can measure. We can at least not measure it in a way that's consistent with the scientific method. So gender would fall into the area of soft science,

not hard science. And that's important to point out as well. Soft science being, well, hard science being areas, the study of the real physical world, biology, chemistry, physics. So I just, I just want to stop you there because what you're saying is incredibly interesting. My question is, if this man has been discredited, if his research was found to have, to not have any scientific value, then why is it that these ideas are still being propagated to the? that. Bingo. And my book explains why. And the short answer is that number one, he, he, publicized his fraudulent data. And we didn't get into the experiment that he did on these twins. And we don't need to, but your audience should learn about, he had one experiment. He did

And one, his proof of concept of his theory of gender identity being, that were born gender neutral, and that it's all about society and that it's all about gender identity and that it's flu. All that stuff was his proof of concept failed miserably. It could not have failed more, but it only became known that it's, had failed after about 25, 30 years after he began saying that it was a success. So there was a long delay in the discovery that the individuals that he had experimented on, the boy that was raised as a girl because he had had his penis burnt off during a circumcision, and his parents took him to Johns Hopkins to see Dr. Money.

Dr. Money said, raise this boy as a girl, and he will be fine. We'll castrate him. We'll do some surgery. We'll give him some hormones at the right time. He'll be absolutely fine. They listened to him. They tried it. It was a disaster.

He ended up killing himself. He never felt like a girl. He never acted like a girl. And his biology was coming through loud and clear. That Y chromosome, that tiny little Y chromosome, makes a big difference. Now, by the time that David Reamer, this boy that was raised as a girl, came out publicly and said, my life was a disaster because of John Money, I was exploited by the medical field. And not only that, but John Money's results, when John Money went and said that I, speaking, in other words, David's speaking now, that I was a success and that I actually felt like a girl, this, you know, you have to understand. I mean, it's impossible to believe here, isn't it? You see, David Reamer was the perfect, perfect, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

subject for for John Money. He was a twin. He had an identical twin. So he and they were of course raised in the same environment, the same family. This was the perfect setup. It was the answer to John Money's prayers. And so they do this experiment and this little boy is told from the age of about 18 months that he's a girl. Okay. He's a He's still in diapers. And he's told he's a girl. He's given the name Brenda. He's put in dresses.

The whole world, all his relatives. This is the perfect social trans. We would call it socially transitioning right now. Except that the kid himself didn't know that he was being socially transitioned. So what could be more perfect than that? And it was a complete failure. But Barron. that being the case, why is it, Miriam, that we've now seen, we'll fast forward to

2023, and it feels that this ideology is everywhere. It's exploded in popularity. It's now being regurgitated as fact. Why is that? Well, the ideologues on the left took hold of what Dr. Money was saying. We're talking about the second. We're talking about the the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, before David Reamer came out, the book that really publicized, well, there was a BBC documentary about him as well, but this all happened in the late 90s. The book that came out published telling his story is called As Nature Made Him by John Colapinto, came out in 1999. It was before John Money died.

John Money, his whole life, never made any public statements regarding what happened. In other words, public statements acknowledging the disaster of his experiment. You're asking the question that I've been asking for 15 years. Why is it that now that we know what happened to those twins? And did I say they both committed suicide or did I just say David? No, you just say David. They both commit. Well, the other, his identical twin died of an overdose. So he destroyed a family, John Money, and he was, every time the kids were taken down to see him, because they lived in Canada, and the parents would take them down once a year to see John Money. John Money was sexually abusing those kids, and he was showing them pornography. He, in his mind, well, he was pro pornography. He, he, he was pro pornography. He, He felt that kids needed to see in order to develop normally in terms of their sexuality.

He believed that all children needed to be exposed to graphic sexual images. And he was also for incest. He was publicly pro-incest. So this is a wicked guy. We're talking about a wicked person. That's fair to say. I think that's fair to say. It is fair.

So I think the thing that Francis is trying to get at is how does this person remain in all our lives to this day with his crazy theories that are now being taught in school, that are now creating clinics? I mean, why is this continuing? And your profession, you are, is to my understanding at least, a bit of an outlier, many people in your profession believe that children who say that they're the opposite sex must be affirmed. Of course, well, that's what I'm, of course, that's what my association tells me to do as well, my professional association, obviously. So do they not know about John Money's failed experiment? Do they not care? I mean, how are we here? I would say they don't know. I would say that this is already so ingrained, this whole hoax has become so ingrained and baked into so many institutions. that it's really difficult to make any sort of headway and make a U-turn and look at this. And I'll tell you something also that's very fascinating.

The book that I am telling you, the book from which I learned all this, John Colapinto's As Nature made him, that book got an award from an LGBT, literary association. Like what? Why? Why? Let me explain. You see, the way that they see this case of the twins is that this is how they spin it. They say, well, David Reamer's gender identity was male. And it was put upon him. that he should be female. And so that's an example of how gender identity is primary. So they don't say biology. They say it's his gender identity.

And the poor boy, his parents and everybody was trying to tell him that he's a girl, but he knew his psychological sex was that he was a boy. And Miriam, we've now, like I said, fast forwarded to 2023, this thing has exploded. More and more children are identifying as the opposite sex. In your opinion, how have we got to this point? It's spreading a theory, but there's something far deeper going on society, isn't there? Well, of course. And I do explain, just as a continuation of your last question of how did this happen, once we knew

about David Reamer and about John Money's fraudulent research. You see, I explain in my book how slowly through the years this idea of gender identity being primary, more important than biology, that sex is on a spectrum, that gender in sex started to be used as synonyms. That was a very important thing that happened. but I focus especially on what happened in psychiatry. Okay, because really, I mean, we're the people, we're the ones that come out and say, what's a disorder and what is not.

And we're the ones that every 10 or 15 years comes out with a new manual, you know, the DSM, we're now up to DSM-5, which was written in 2013. And so it's on our shoulders, right? psychiatrists and psychologists get together, talk, look at the research, well, they're supposed to look at the research, and make a decision about what's going to be a disorder and what isn't. So what happened regarding this particular situation is that we knew in psychiatry for a long, long time that there were extremely rare individuals that had gender dysphoria, which is an intense discomfort with your sex.

And we knew that they basically fell into two categories. I'm oversimplifying, but let's say two categories. One were little boys who at the age of two or three or four would come to their parents and say, I'm not a boy, I'm a girl. You know, I desperately, you know, I want to grow a penis, things like that. And we know that those kids, if they are watched carefully and given support, the vast majority of them, if they go through puberty, normal puberty, not synthetic puberty, will outgrow their gender dysphoria. The other group of people that we always knew about were middle-aged heterosexual men who enjoyed cross-dressing and after having families would sometimes make the decision to, to live the rest of their lives as a female and perhaps get the medical treatment. So those were

the two groups. Now, very rare again. So what happened is that when it came time, okay, so there was a diagnosis in the DSM called gender identity disorder. And what I just described to you about those two groups, they had gender identity disorder with the emphasis on disorder. Now, society was changing, culture was changing, and there were, you know, in the universities and in sex education, big, big thing. I'm not going to have time to talk to you about sex education, but this was a major, major influence and pipeline into these kids' minds. So all these changes were happening, and essentially they were, you know, without psychiatry even putting their stamp of approval on the idea that gender identity is more important than biology, and that you can have an identity separate from

your biology at odds with your biology, and that that is not pathos. That is not represent psychopathology. That idea was already swirling around and was actually accepted. I went to a lecture, I think it was in 2006, and a psychiatrist, was a psychiatrist, it was a medical doctor, stood up and gave a lecture on if you have someone that comes to your office and wants to go on hormones and get surgery. in order to live as the opposite sex, our job as doctors is to give it to them. Our job as doctors is not to, you know, examine or do what they call gatekeeping, you know, send the person for psychotherapy. Our job is to accept what they're saying and to rubber stamp their diagnosis and do what they wish. Now, that was back in 2006. So, and I explain all this in the book. And So this was already happening. And there were a lot of people in psychiatry and in psychology who believed that we should

simply be rubber stamping and what they wouldn't call it rubber stamping. They would say that it's the person's civil right and that this is respecting them and respecting their identity. And so by the time that it came to be for a psychiatrist and psychologist to write a new DSM, the pressure was very, very high, not only to eliminate this diagnosis as a disorder, but to take it out altogether. So it just, it shouldn't even be part of this manual of, of psychiatric disorders or conditions. Miram, this is why I asked you right at the beginning about the concept of gender itself,

because, and I'm not a psychiatrist, as you can imagine, so correct me on everything I'm saying, But it seems to me, as we've looked at this issue and talked to different people, that a lot of the conversation we're having stems from the invention of this concept of gender. And if we were to say, yes, some people feel a discomfort with the biological sex that they are. And yes, that is something that causes them distress. That is something that they can seek psychiatric help for. and maybe for some of those people living as the opposite sex may be the right solution. But that does not mean that this mythical concept of gender identity exists. Why can't we say that?

Because you said to me, you don't agree with that earlier. Why can't we say that? Is it incorrect? Well, listen, the questions can't even be asked because there is a tyranny in the organizations now. But I'm asking you. I'm asking you. Oh. Well, of course that is the, of course what you just said is, is correct that we have to acknowledge that there are rare people.

They used to be rare that do have this disorder. And they deserve our compassion and they deserve our understanding. And yes, some of them, yes, some of them do require these interventions. Absolutely they do. I'm not denying that. What I am saying is that what we are now doing is that teaching preschoolers, three-year-olds, that they may have been born in the wrong body and that that's perfectly normal and that if they, you know, and that if they wish to, you know, live as the opposite sex and they wish they would rather be boys or, they like, you know, you get to pick.

And whatever you pick, we're going with it. all the adults are going, I mean, you know, this is just, you know, it's just appalling. It's astonishing. It's, I don't, I don't know that I have the right words to express how destructive this is and destabilizing to a little child to introduce in their minds the idea that they may be in the wrong body that is destabilizing, that is destructive. We don't want any child to, to feel disembodied to feel like something's wrong about how they were made. This is destabilizing. This is awful. This is not what we should be doing for our children. But let me just add, I'm sorry, I didn't finish with the DSM. So there were people that felt it needed to be completely removed. So why was it

kept in? And I'll explain why it was kept in. It was for two reasons. It was kept in because the doctors who were involved were compassionate and they they felt badly they felt empathy for their patients and for these individuals who have difficult lives and there is stigma against them and they felt that by making this taking out the disorder category and no longer calling it a disorder but emphasizing instead of the identity part of it, the incongerance of the identity, they are emphasizing the distress that they feel. So they shifted the focus.

Absolutely. And I look, and from on the one hand, I'm listening to this and I'm going, that is compassion and empathetic. On the other hand, that is a fundamental denial of reality in biology. And at some point, the medical industry, the psychiatric industry, they're going to face a day of reckoning, aren't they, Miriam?

Because, to be brutally honest, there's a lot of young people and children who have had medical interventions that are irreversible and highly damaging and which they shouldn't have had. Well, that day of reckoning, you know, the lawsuits have started. You had the cast report

and the closing, the imminent closing of Tavostok, the Gid Service. So the day of reckoning in the U.S. is certainly coming. And I have to say, I look forward to it. I've been waiting for it for a long time. I want to add one thing just because I want to be thorough. The other reason that the diagnosis was kept in the DSM was in order for it to have a code for insurance purposes because these individuals, of course, need psychiatric help and psychological help,

and some of them are going to go for the medical interventions. You need to have a code for the insurance to reimburse you. So, Miriam, what we've done is we've identified the two groups that historically transitioned, which is the young children, and we're talking about the adult males, adult heterosexual males. What we haven't addressed is the young girls, which now seems to be almost the majority of people. In your opinion, what is happening there and why? So we have a new group, a new demographic, as you mentioned, mostly girls, still a lot of boys. It's not like it's 90-10. It's more like maybe 60-40.

There's still an awful lot of boys. So this new group, you know, was only recently identified in 2018. We had Lisa Lippmann do the research and coin the term rapid onset gender dysphoria. And very, it turned into a controversial term and there was, you know, a lot of, you know, it's just unbelievable what's going on. the resistance on the left to fight any, any shred of evidence that their theories and their beliefs about how to treat these kids is wrong. But anyway, to answer your question, this is a group of a majority being young girls who never before expressed any discomfort with being a girl and who, over a short period of time, and following immersion in the Internet and social media,

and most of them also have a lot of at least one or multiple pre-existing psychiatric problems. So by that I mean a lot of them are on the autism spectrum. They have anxiety disorders. They have social phobia, depression. They may have self-injury. They may be cutting themselves. They may have undergone or gone through some trauma in their life. And so these are girls, and I'm not going to say just girls,

because there's a lot of people actually dismiss the boys, and I'm not going to do that. I've seen too many boys in my office and talked to too many parents of boys to do that. there's a ton of boys that are in this also so they are led to believe that uh that that if they don't feel comfortable with themselves if they don't like getting their periods they don't fit in with their friends they're not stereotypical girls they're perhaps they're attracted romantically to other girls there's many different things that could be going on here well then you you might be a boy. And of course, you get a lot of points. Your status is elevated when you come out as

non-male or female. I don't use the word cisgender because that's part of the lexicon that I refuse to use. If you come out to your friends as being neither male or female, it's, you know, you're kind of an elevated status. And not only that, but you are no longer, you see, if you are a white heterosexual middle class or upper class student, you're an oppressor. I mean, this is a whole other subject, right? One with which we're quite familiar, Mary. Yeah. Okay.

So you don't want to be an oppressor. Yeah. You want to be oppressed. You don't want to be an oppressor. So if you are a member of a sexual minority and, you're not. you know, or another minority. You can't change your race. You can't change your socioeconomic status.

You can't change, you know, you're not going to come out and say you're gay or lesbian if you're not. But to say that you're neither male or female, okay. I mean, after all, you know, we're all mosaics. This is me speaking now. This is the truth. I'm not saying that this is what these kids say. you know, I could wake up one day and be feeling more, I don't know,

ambitious and aggressive and like, I'm going to go and do this. And I could say, oh, I'm feeling masculine today. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm non-binary. I mean, that is what, that was my first thought when you joined the call, Mary. Yeah. But listen, I want to ask you about, obviously, what you're saying, makes a lot of sense to us. How have your views been received by your colleagues and how have you found speaking about these issues, which you did actually much earlier than most people,

from 2009 onwards? What impact has that had? How easy it has been to publish your books, etc.? It's not been hard to publish my books, but I do have to go to those publishers that believe in free speech. So you've got a choice of two. Yeah. And the book, you're teaching my child what, that warned parents about sex education.

And I just want to emphasize, you know, I write these books as a medical professional. So my books provide science. They provide medical information. This isn't, you know, my belief, as a religious person, which I am,

these are medical facts. And so you're asking about the response. Well, my 2009 book was considered, of course, politically incorrect. And so it was only picked up by organizations that are conservative you know

religious organizations and so on. So, I mean, I did have some success, not anywhere near as what I still believe it deserved. The book is coming out again,

actually, it's very interesting that now that I have this book coming out and now that sex education finally, finally, people are realizing that what their kids are being told is just, it's wicked. Again, we get that word back again. I mean, what we're exposing kids to at a young age

and the lies that we are telling them, not only about gender, about other things, but finally, people are waking up and parents are waking up. I hope in the, I know in the U.S., I don't know about the UK. Oh, by the way, did you know that I spoke in the House of Lords 11, 12 years ago? No, we didn't. No, we didn't.

There you go. How would you know? Yeah. There's a reason why the leftist like you, Miriam. Right. So I spoke there about sex education and oh boy, at that time, your sex education in the UK, it was even worse than ours. When I say worse than ours, if I recall correctly, you had websites.

I'm getting off topic a little bit, but I remember. doing research into your sexuality education there and going on to government websites, you know, or NGOs, you know, NGO organizations that are funded by your government. And there would be links provided to the kids that were on that site of where to go, like bars, where to go for gay sex. It just took. Yeah. I just, yeah.

I mean, whenever we touch upon this subject, I find it horrifying, particularly as I, you know, I used to be a teacher and an education. I guess the question, and the reason I stopped you there, is because I'm going to ask a question, which is an uncomfortable one. I know, but I didn't answer. Wait, do you want to answer? But not because it provides a link into the question that I'm going to ask, which I really, which I think goes to the heart of some of this stuff. When I have looked at some of these theories, when I have looked at the people who have put forward these theories, who have created these theories, there always seems to be a link.

And if I'm wrong, please push back on me. I'm not putting words in your mouth. There seems to be a link between these types of theories and pedophilia. Am I wrong in making that assertion? Or is there truth to what I'm saying? And why is it that we are not actually shouting about this from the rooftops because it is a child protection issue? Some people are shouting from the rooftops.

As usual, they're being silenced and not given the microphone. I would say that I call what's going on with kids grooming. Okay, so let's define what grooming is. grooming is the emotional and psychological manipulation of a vulnerable person with the goal of exploiting them in some way in the future. There is sexual grooming, there is financial grooming, and there is ideological grooming. Now, I believe that with all of our sexuality education and gender education, there is no doubt in my mind that there is sexual and ideological grooming that's going on. And I'll explain a very simple thing to you. You see, if you have a four or five-year-old

and they're in a preschool group and the teacher begins to discuss anatomically correct names for the body. And this is a huge thing, you know, in sex education, that these little kids need to know penis and vulva and clitoris and testicles, like they all need to know. They shouldn't be using childish names for those parts of their bodies. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That's a bad thing.

They need to know the terms, the actual terms. But you see, when that begins, what happens the message that the child is given a is that we can talk about these very private things at school we should not feel a sense of embarrassment if we feel a drop of embarrassment we need to deny that the teacher's talking about these things she or he feels very comfortable talking about a penis and a vulva and a clitoris I should also be comfortable with all my classmates around me, boys, girls, with this teacher that I may have just met two weeks ago. I'm supposed to feel comfortable. So that's called desensitization.

And that is the beginning of grooming. Because in order to groom somebody, that person has to feel comfortable with you and has to trust. you. So when our sex educators are telling us, as they have been for so long, that these little kids need to learn their anatomically correct words for their bodies. And that's only the beginning. I mean, they're telling them about, you know, anal sex by the time they're 10 years old. But let's put that aside. So it's a form of grooming. It's a form of grooming. It's a form of at such a young age, the child is supposed to deny their inborn sense of shame or let's say embarrassment.

That's a normal sense of embarrassment. That should be there. That's what I'm arguing. We want our kids to have that. And the other message that the kids get from the teacher, from that whole thing of being, of teaching those words and talking about genitals, is they get the message that it's not at home that I'm going to learn about these things. It's not my parents that are the experts that I need to go to for my questions.

It's my school. It's my teacher. It's people outside. And it's a good point, and I take your point. But let's just go back to my initial question about the, you know, we've brought up John Money. I've read and I've heard about other people who have propagated these theories. And again, there was the issue of... Oh, I'll tie it in. Wait, wait, I'm going to tie it in. Okay, go for it.

When a child has internalized that message of, I can trust this person, this adult, it's not at home that we discuss these issues. I have to deny, my internal discomfort, that is making that child more available for inappropriate sexual behavior. That's how I'm tying this into the paedophilia. Does that work for you? Yes, but it does, and I get what you're saying, and it's a very good point. But I was looking at it almost in the case of, if we look back at it historically,

a lot of people who have propagated and created these theories, there is a link, is there not, or am I misrepresenting or simply incorrect? Yes, there is a link and there's, the link is to destroy any remnant of any Judeo-Christian morality in our society, and that's a part of it. You know, the sexual morality part of it. And again, people like John Money, Alfred Kinsey, who we didn't disqualify, who we didn't discuss, they promoted also a pedophile. They want to promote the idea that we are all sexual from cradle to grave. So if children are sexual, well, then why are we preventing them from

engaging in sexual behavior with adults? I mean, adults are who love them. What's wrong with that? So it's all part of destroying the morality that. So yes, I agree with you. There is a link. There is a real length. Miriam, we're running out of time. I know that one of the things you're keen to get across in your latest book is, and we've had people who detransitioned and people who nearly transitioned and parents who socially transitioned their children on the show. But one of the things you really wanted to talk about is, and briefly, is the impact that gender ideology and its consequences has on the entire family unit, not just the individual. or young person who goes through this.

Correct. Tell us in a couple of minutes, what's going on there. Okay. Okay. I mean, I'll just emphasize that my book, Lost in Transnation, is a book for families, for parents. It is not for professionals. It's for

moms and dads to be able to inoculate their families against these dangerous ideas before they have a problem. Before one of their children comes home and says, Mom, Dad, I'm not your son. I'm your daughter. So, it's very practical advice. I have conversation. I have model conversations that you can have with your child.

A lot of conversation you can have with a therapist or the principal of your school. Now, the impact, what you just asked me, the impact on families. You know, we're all focused on the young people. Of course we are. Of course we're focused on them. They are the primary, that's ground zero. But we have to also acknowledge, and what I've seen over these years, talking to hundreds of parents is this is this for many parents. I would say maybe all parents that go through this. It is the most difficult and devastating experience they've had in their lives. I'm talking about parents who may have gone through cancer, financial ruin, divorce, 9-11, what have you, COVID.

and yet seeing their child be recruited by this ideology, by this belief system, and to watch what it does to their child as their child changes before their very eyes. Even prior to any medicalization, they see their child changing before their eyes because these children change. and they come under the influence of strangers. And those strangers place a wedge between the child and their loving and devoted parents. These are not parents who need to be reported to child protective services. And trust me, as a child psychiatrist,

I myself have reported families to child protective services in the past. So I know all about that. And I know all about families that cannot raise a child, and the child has to be removed for safety purposes. I know about that. These are loving and devoted families, and the child needs their parents, and their parents have the right, the constitutional right, to direct their child's upbringing, their education, and their medical care. Now, these ideologues, these people at school, pediatricians, child protective services, you know, like you said, it's everywhere. A wedge is placed in that relationship.

And sometimes it's the wedge becomes too big and the child is actually estranged from the family. But even if the child is not estranged, the impact. on the parents. I just spoke to a woman who is going through this with their, her daughter is identifying as a boy. This woman, a few decades ago

in her native country went through a genocide. She lived in a country that a few decades ago had a genocide. She lost her family and a limb. one of her limbs, this woman told me that going through what she's going through with her daughter, identifying as a boy and wanting to go on testosterone, has shattered her life more than the genocide did.

So this is affecting, this has a ripple effect, not just parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins. and we didn't even speak about the, you know, the other students in the classroom. What's the effect on other students in the classroom when suddenly they come back from their summer vacation and who they, someone that they always saw as a boy is now they're supposed to, in their minds, think of as a girl. So we don't have time for that. But let me just remind your audience that I am providing, this is the first book in existence, written by a medical doctor that is providing parents with the information that they must have to understand this and to prevent, to do what they can, to give them the tools to prevent this terrible, devastating damage from affecting their families.

Miriam, we are going to continue the conversation with questions from our supporters and a few more from us on our locals. But for this section of the interview, we always end with the same question, which is, what's the one thing that you think we're not talking about as a society that we really should be? And it doesn't have to be related to this, although I imagine it might be. We're not talking about how evil really does exist. We have to face it. if we don't face it, you know, we're going to have, we are having this devastation that can have. We have to acknowledge that there are evil ideas and that there are evil individuals. And if we don't recognize it, how are we going to fight it?

Well, thank you for that. And we invite you all to join us over on locals where we continue the conversation. Is the psychiatric sanity pendulum swinging back or will it get worse before it gets better? Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity,

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