TRIGGERnometry - ‘Stop Making Us Pretend’ - Bill Maher

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Bill Maher is an American comedian, writer, producer, political commentator, actor, and television host. Since 2003, he has hosted Real Time with Bill Maher, a political talk show on HBO. Before that he hosted the similar late-night show, Politically Incorrect (1993–2002). In 2022, Maher started the podcast Club Random. SPONSORED BY GiveSendGo - Go to https://www.GiveSendGo.com/ to check out a better alternative to crowdfunding. Support the people who support freedom! Become a Premium Member to receive exclusive benefits https://triggernometry.supercast.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube:  @xentricapc   Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The left went to places that we all know are goofy. They don't fucking know that much. So don't like make pronouncements. Like you have a monopoly on the truth. Why does that irritate you, Bill? Because I don't like lying. Like you say, we just, we don't want to pretend. Be a little fucking mysterious.

You know, not everybody has to know your opinion on every fucking issue. Every kid you ever went to school with on Facebook, really. Just shut the fucking. up. Everybody just shut the fuck up. Hey guys, Trigonometry needs your help. We took a big risk creating the show, and for us to keep doing the incredible work that you all love, we need your support. That's the only way we're going to stay independent and create content that you won't be able to find anywhere else. There is no other podcast where you'll hear

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Listen, we'll get straight into it. I always think of you as kind of the classical Hollywood liberal. And in the last few years, maybe unfair characterization, but in the last few years, you were really broken with the orthodoxy here. You made a joke on your last show when you first came back after Rider Strike, kind of like about not having any friends in Hollywood. Only because he set me up for it, but it was perfect at that moment. Yeah.

It was funny. I mean, they left me. I didn't leave them. I mean, I'm the same. That's what I'm always saying. It's like the left went to places that we all know are goofy. You know, and it's like I'm a comedian. I'm going to make fun and funny.

You know, if you do, I mean, Obama was a scorched earth policy for comedy, you know, which was great. He wasn't a buffoon. Good for the country. bad for comedy. Yeah, right. But that's not the case now with, you know, I mean, identity politics and victim

culture and cancel culture, hostility to free speech. These are all great targets and worthy targets. And I, you know, was always willing to people, I think

don't remember how much I was always willing to go after it on the left, but there just was less of it. Clinton wasn't an idiot either. I mean, he was they tried to get him out of office because of a blowjob. Whose side was I going to be on? Right?

So, you know, things changed. I mean, was it Jonathan Haidt? Is he the one who wrote the book? And his theory, I think he got it right. It was like 2015. It was like Gen Z Asends or something. And like we thought they were going to backlash to the millennials.

It just got like 10 times worse. It's like AI. It was exponential. But the problem is, Bill, is that you look on comedy on TV and with a few exceptions, one in particular being your show, it's got really toothless. And that's a dangerous place. Well, I've gotten into trouble talking about this subject before,

so I'm going to take a pass on this question. Fair enough. Because I'm friends with some of these guys. I certainly am admirer of some of these guys and their talents. So, you know, I do think, I will just say your basic premise is correct that there is one that doesn't look anything like the others. But that's partly also because I'm not a celebrity-driven show. I'm not having on sitcom stars and just that's, you know, what I'm doing here for a club random. No, I think we have great people here, but we don't necessarily talk politics.

So they're doing, you know, broad vaudevillian shows. I'm doing a political show. I don't have, hardly ever have a celebrity. I mean, show business people, well, yes, sometimes at the beginning of the show will have an iconic, you know, Rod Stewart, how are you going to say no to that or something? But it's, you know, that's, but most of the show is a panel with,

I mean, you were on it. It's got to be people who are like super smart about what the fuck is going on in the world. That's not what those guys. So some of it is just built in. And then, you know, yeah, I mean, I have different takes on stuff. And, you know, it's, I tell you, there is a little too much, like, uniformity of opinion, premise, you know. And I think that's one of the main problems with society at the moment, Bill, is that it does seem to be a uniformity of opinion, both on the left and the right.

where we just put ourselves into tribes and are scared because we're in tribes who actually go, hang on, I don't agree with that. Yeah, I may have told this story before, but like every year I look at writer's packets, you know, like, see who's out there. And it's like, like this last, the lack of diversity of point of view.

I mean, it's one thing to write the punchline, but like, what is your point of view about a subject? So I think what they had to do was write about the events of that week, see if they can write a monologue joke. And I think it was the week when Maloney took over in Italy. Yeah. And it was like uniformly she's a fascist. Now, I know the family has fascist roots.

I mean, this came up somewhere in conversation. And I said, well, you know, if we go back, you know, the Democrats were the party of slavery. Right. So, like, everybody's got a past. So, I don't know. I said, I don't follow Italian politics closely. But I'm just not like, like, like, off the get-go, going to say, this lady's a fascist.

It's all one-dimensional, isn't it? And that's what, like, every writer wrote based on the premise, like, she's a fascist. I was like, okay. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Like, it just gets in the ether that this is the opinion to have, and people are lazy. They don't really, you know, they want to seem knowledge

but not really know anything. Nobody wants to do the reading. You know what I mean? Everybody wants to be the college kid who turns up, who knows what they're talking about, but no one wants to go and read the books. You see that nowhere more than what's, you know, Israel, whenever that, now that the war is on,

you know, they just do not understand the history of this conflict and, you know, that land. And so it's just screaming at each other over, you know, identity politics. It's tribalism. But there was another thing, too, but which I think where a lot of people, you gained a lot of people's respect, not that you didn't have it already for many people, but there were a lot of new people. And you've talked about it recently about how there are conservatives now coming to see you live.

Yeah, mixed audiences. Which is a great place to be. Great. But I think part of the reason is that you really made a break with, what people thought was your team over COVID. You really made a break with them. Absolutely. And other things, but you're right.

I was very forthright. I didn't hold back with what I thought. I mean, I had already been cast as an anti-vaxxer, but, you know, it's almost impossible to deny that because it's very much like the witch. If she floats, she's guilty, you know, that thing. Like if I deny, if I say, I'm not. an anti- well that's what an anti-vaccine would say it's just these people you can't argue with people

like that so but no my view has always been pretty much the same i always made a theme on real-time from the beginning in 2003 i remember arguing with howard dean who was a doctor in 2004 about medical you know just taking that position of just i'm not all in with western medicine and i think there's a lot of corruption and i think there's just a lot we don't know those are my two big ones. It's like, is there corruption? Yes, we just found out with the Sackler family, for example, the people who make, what was it, Oxycontin, and I think they could find $8 billion. I mean, that's, you know, we know they're capable of being corrupt, you know, for purposely hooking people on their hillbilly heroin, you know, so we know they're capable of it. But even when

they're not trying to be corrupt, I mean, I don't think they were trying to make a vaccine that then didn't prevent you from getting it. They of course wanted that to be the result. They came up with a vaccine, I think, that is very appropriate for people who are not in good health, and probably if you have it, your life was saved by something that could have killed you.

But I don't fit that profile. So I shouldn't have had that. Yeah. I didn't. Is that why you spoke up about it? Because you just felt it was a one-size-fits-all solution. Correct. It's not something. scientific. It shouldn't even be a political issue. It should be a medical issue. It's just

medical. All of this stuff. So, yeah, I mean, I've certainly lost plenty of people. But those kind of people were never really going to be completely happy with me. And they never were completely happy with me. You know, they didn't like me about religion stuff. You know? Isn't the problem as well, and you've just alluded to it, actually, is you said politics got involved. Now, all three of us sitting here. In COVID? Yeah, with COVID, but with everything. Politics gets involved now with everything.

Yes. Every decision you make, you can just see. A perfect example of this, Constantine and I were in Amsterdam. And we saw, you know, one of these, you know, flame throes or flame jugglers, whatever it's called. And before he started his act. A street performer. A street performer. That's it.

Before he started his act, he gave a five-minute political lecture. about the Dutch right wing government. And I'm like... And then he started juggling balls. That's perfect. You just go... Even with someone like this, I still get politics rammed down my throat.

I mean, that's the problem, isn't it? That is certainly one of the problems. It's a theme also in my stand-up act now at the end when I'm talking about how we can't go the Marjorie Taylor Green. We need a national divorce route. We cannot get divorced, even if we want to. It's just not practical. It's stupid.

So we have to learn to, yes, get along and just live side by side with assholes you can't stand. And, you know, and part of that is just not always talking about politics. We never used to do that when I was a kid, parents, and saw their friend, saw them with their friends. And it was almost considered impolite. Yeah. Politics and religion. So you didn't know that you hated this guy. You know, right?

You didn't, you know, he was just your neighbor and you could, and they got a long grade. And, you know, don't share everything would be one of my big pieces of advice. Be a little fucking mysterious. You know, not everybody has to know your opinion on every fucking issue. Every kid you ever went to school with on Facebook, really? They have to know what you think about Ivermectin. just shut the fuck up. Everybody just shut the fuck up

about politics 24-7. And otherwise we're always going to be this... Because is anybody ever convinced of anything? Yeah. I mean... Well, we can't even agree what men and women are anymore. So if we can't agree about that,

then how are we going to agree on something like Israel, which is a very, very serious, complex issue? you can tell the women from the men in my hut I don't know where you I don't know what you're doing man That is not a problem No I know I mean that's I mean it's easy to say That's of course we do but

Yeah I mean that's one of those issues But to me it's always like if we weren't crazy And completely political like you see say and always partisan about everything we could just agree, okay, some people are trans. So their gender thoughts don't match with their gender equipment. Of course. And also some of it's trendy. But nobody wants to like it on that obviously true center position. I'm not saying it just because it's taking from both sides, because it's actually. true. Some of it is

trendy and it's also a real thing that should be protected. Really, nobody could like run on that kind of shit. There's no, nobody out there who could like fucking just take all the issues and kind of do that, the border you know, like, yes,

we need to just not have a one size fits all and also we're not going to bomb them. It's like everyone just goes to what's nuttier. Isn't it weird? Like it's either like trans women are women. Doesn't matter if they have a penis.

Or on the other hand, it's like women need to go back in the kitchen. Isn't there some kind of middle ground there? I just feel like we talk about these issues on this kind of show and all over the news and everyone. So much. And it's just a very small, not that they shouldn't be respected. But it's just a very small. It reminds me of Albert Brooks one who's that like TV. It's like every show is about a private detective.

If you look in the phone book, there's only two real private detectives. I know what you mean, and I get frustrated talking about some of the stuff, because a lot of it isn't that interesting. It really isn't. A lot of these things. You mean the trans thing and all that's other stuff? Because as you said, we all know what the fucking truth is, right?

And all of these political posturing positions are insane. However, I do think that, you know, the idea of truth is really important. Very. And so what bothers me is people making me pretend. Right. The things that are blatantly false are not. Like the emperor's naked and he's got his dick out. No, you said it very well, making me pretend.

That's what, like, a lot of the people who watch shows like yours and mine, like about what we do is it's just that protestation. Don't make me pretend. Like there's just a lot of pretending because the far-left woke people are so intimidating. They have crazy, stupid ideas about a lot of stuff,

but they're really good at media. And people are just intimidated that the mean girls of Twitter will destroy you. So you can just be really out there with whatever you say, woke-wise, and even the people who know better

will just, it's going to let that one pass. Too dangerous. You know. And so that's how you get a lot of the stuff that, like you say, we don't want to pretend. No.

I mean, I don't want to pretend that, I mean, women and men in sports are anything comparable. I mean, if the worst NBA team played the best WNBA team, the score would be a million to zero. Yeah. That's no insult to women is just the way it is. And to make me pretend...

Why does that irritate you, Bill? I don't like lying. Well, see, I just don't bullshit, but you can, I have tons of friends on both sides, even far woke, far Trump, whatever, as long as you're sincere, but don't fucking lie to me. And you know, the other thing as well, Bill, that I feel it a lot is just fucking leave me alone. You know, and that, I got that more than ever with COVID, where it just felt that it just, it was almost a reason for the government. government to stick their little finger into your life and also incentivize other people to do it as well?

Well, I think a lot of people in government and the medical community, they sincerely believe they're doing the right thing. They're, you know, safetyism. They see safety, which is the short-term good of lockdowns and masks and mandates and all that kind of stuff. I mean, first of all, they may not be right about the efficacy of the vaccine, but

as far as safety, they think they're doing the right thing. But they're in the system. You know, it's just, it's that kind of thing where do you really know you're slowly just fall into the group think of okay, this is how we

handle the problem. lockdown, vaccine. Not that vaccines are to me a tool that I'm very glad we have but I should get to pick whether I want or not based on the pathogen and my situation

and there could be something that comes along where I would be the first online. Vaccines generally work. You know. Bill, I want to come back to this conversation about Lyme because it's interesting to me. I really respect your work.

One of the reasons is I've always been more interested in satire than comedy. And you are your best, I think, are satirical in that you are talking about political issues. You're making fun of both sides very often. And I think that really is the job of people like you is to point out where the hypocrisies are, where the lack of truth is, etc. But not many people are now doing that with comedy, it feels like.

Well, they do it on one side. But they pause when it comes down to saying something that's going to make their completely liberal audience disapprove. You know, they take the path of least resistance when it comes to stuff on the left that is worthy of making fun of. Because the audience doesn't want to hear. hear that. Or they really believe it. I mean, but they, it's more by omission, you know. I mean, they'll do Biden jokes about his age or something like that, which is fairly

anodyne, but you never really are in question about what the take, you know, what the point of view is. That's the, that's the, that's the point. point of view. It's so important and it's so important that the point of view is not boring, that the point of view is not the same as everybody else's point of view. My friend calls it, let me guess, Pollard. It's brilliant, and it let me guess. And it's always, and I'm not ever let me guess. That's so uninteresting, isn't it?

And they just won't, like I remember there was this, about two years ago, shooter, some nut, mass shooting in, I think, Atlanta, and he killed a bunch of Asian people because they ran massage parlors. Do you remember this case? Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. And I read the stories, and it was clear by the end of the week,

and I said on the air, it's not what the media is saying, that it was, he wasn't mad at Asians. He was mad at people who were jerking him off because he was a Christian. Everybody in his life said it, the FBI said it. And the other people would not move off this narrative. And that's the difference between truth and narrative. It's like the narrative is, you know,

it's part of this giant anti-Asian crime wave. And I'm sure there are horrific crimes that are, you know, committed against Asians as they are against other peoples. And we should stop them all. But this was not one of them. They just, you know, they just shoved this fucking thing. You know, hold it. Get in there.

Get in the shit the fuck. And it's like closing a suitcase and they get. And I hate that shit. I think we all do because what it puts us in Bill is in a really dangerous position. will we stop believing what we've been told in the news and newspapers? And once that happens, like I said, you're in a really dangerous situation because people go, this is all fake, this is all fake. So when the next pandemic comes along, for example, as it will do,

or there's some other type of emergency, you're just going to get whole swathes of people going, I don't believe any of this. Well, the CDC has already lost a lot of credibility. I mean, I think they all did when, you know, People live through it, so they remember, oh, yeah, I remember washing the mail for six months for no fucking reason. You know, washing the mail, really? So, again, my big theme, they don't fucking know that much.

So don't, like, make pronouncements. Like, you have a monopoly on the truth. It's so anti-science that people are like, follow this science. It can be so anti-science. It's so true. Yeah. That's so true.

And Bill, did you see this coming? Because I remember all... COVID? No, no. He was there. He was there in China. I did not see it coming. No, I don't mean this.

I mean the culture. I mean where we are now as a society. No. Because, but I do remember your stand-up from way back when talking about how we now prioritize feelings over truth and all of this stuff. No, I mean, my first. It was called Politically Incorrect. That was 30 years ago.

Right. I definitely recognized it as political correctness, which I was asked a lot because I named the show that. It was like, what does that mean to you? You know, the elevation of sensitivity over truth, I think, was one of my big answers. And just the opposite of, you know, when someone is political, it means they're full of shit, usually. I was very political about it.

Politically incorrect. was let's just say what it is. So I did see that it was a problem 30 years ago. Yeah. It just got worse. I mean, I tried to put a stake in its heart and obviously especially

with the internet but also the generations. I mean, we just keep making each generation is more fragile. If you can believe it, they said that about my generation. From the World War II people were like these boomer kids are

They're so spoiled why they, we don't have, we don't even beat them every night, you know. When I think of like how idyllic I think my childhood was, but also like so different than kids today. I'm not coddled nearly as much. No. But you know what I was thinking about political correctness? 30 years ago, it wasn't really the same people doing it. Like my heroes growing up, it was George Carlin and Bill Hicks. And these people would, and you were also talking about religion

because it was the Christian, right? Right. Who wanted to shut people like you down. Oh, yeah. They wanted you not to be able to joke about religion. No, that's... And now it isn't them really leading the charge. I know they exist.

I know they're out there. I know they don't like you joking about religion. But they're not the driving force behind political correctness in 2023. Would you remember? No, of course. Again, that's my fucking defense when people are like, Well, you've changed. No, they changed.

Like, I could, every issue I could do that with, we're like, this is old school liberal and this is woke. Like, I noticed we have completely given up on the idea that the thing to do if you're overweight is diet and exercise. Which was like bedrock, I mean, it was Michelle Obama. Michelle Obama was, we loved her. For that, she took the perfect message, first lady. Now that's like, I mean, you never read in the New York Times that.

No, no, no. It's just a fact we don't know really why. I mean, they're kind of on that page. But we have Ozambic, you know. And, you know, once again, it's a pharmaceutical solution. I'm not saying that's a giant conspiracy. I'm saying drug makers are not in the business of healing humanity. they're in the business of selling drugs.

They do it by healing humanity a lot. I mean, I'm glad we have pharmaceutical companies. I mean, we need their shit sometimes, and they've done a lot of great things, but they want to sell drugs. Do you think part of, yeah, it's true? If they have one that can make you lose weight, they'll sell it to you.

And they're not, are they sure about side effects or with the real health for repercussions? I don't think we're kind of like, eh. I mean, they don't know why it works. You know that? No. They have no idea why it works. They know that it works, not why, not a clue.

So wouldn't that give you pause? It would do, yeah. Okay, so again, like, this is where liberalism was 10 years ago, and this is where it is now. Bill, do you think sometimes the problem is, every time that we come to America, it's... That's the problem. Yeah, that is a problem.

Every time he comes to America. Right. But it's a culture built around consumerism and ease, making everything as easy as possible and comfort. So is yours. Yeah. I'm not, well, have you ever experienced our customer service? It's not about it.

Like ours is junior. I mean. But do you see what I mean? About England? No, about the U.S. It's that everything is about making things as easy as possible. And if you do that. And I think that's a lot of countries now.

Because, I mean, England became America. Yeah. We caught your country. I mean, I remember being in England the first time in the 80s, and it was very different. Yeah. Very different. How so? Well, first of all, London was like all white.

Yeah. Yeah. It was. You know, so can we just celebrate that victory that we made a place more diverse and not, you know. You never get a pat on the back. No. The people who, like, achieve, I feel. like in that area.

There's only like, there's more to do. Of course there's more to do. But can we just get a little, hey, I think I read in Andrew Sullivan's column, like London went from like 36% to like 86% people of color or something like that.

No, maybe that's too hard, but something like a 50 point swing. 50 points. In two generations, three generations, okay, that's progress. I'm not a bad person to, like, clap for progress. But that is an issue. That is a real issue, Bill, when people, because people never want to admit how, when things are going well.

And if you only start going, oh, everything's terrible, then you start convincing everybody else that everything's terrible, when it's not. I mean, you say people, I feel like this is something that divides the two, parties. I feel like Republicans are too peppy about America and very sentimental

about America and think things are better you know, like racially. I think they're racial they're in denial about racism which is still a thing and the left is like over exaggerating it.

You know, they're so down on America. And it's by the way, something immigrants don't like about the left. I hate that about them. I know you too. People who work so hard to get here and then all you do is

what a shit hole it is. And also it's just, again, factually wrong because we can know what's going on in other countries. And again, these people who do not know things like this but it does not in the least deter them

from tweeting and talking and saying things. And I mean, I've seen these funny videos where they, you know, man on the street with, you know, 20-year-old kids and like, I'd like to live anywhere but here. Really? What do you know about Somalia? What do you know about Karachi, Pakistan? Is that, with that, you know, I mean, I see this porn star is, was being very pro-Palestine.

Yeah, Khalifa. Yeah. And try practicing porn. in Gaza would be my... Did you have queers for Palestine? Yeah. Brilliant. Was that on a T-shirt?

It was a flag. There was a bunch of people holding up a flag saying queers for Palestine. I think I've seen that on a T-shirt. Yeah. And you try walking down the street with that in... I could name a lot of places in the world of it. Do you think we're victims of our own success in the West? Yes.

So comfortable. Exactly. wealthy. That's what it is. I mean, Francis makes this point. Absolutely. It's a great point. The biggest privilege any of us enjoy is first world privilege. That's the privilege. Yeah, I say very similar things about the people who just go on and on about privilege

don't realize that they're always being propped up by the privilege of being impractical, loose thinking, and you're just like head in the clouds, which is a good. great privilege to be. But that's ironic. It is. We'll be back with our guest in a minute, but first, we want to take a moment to talk about our partners, GIFSendGo. GivesendGo. GiveSendGo is a leading crowdfunding website where thousands of people around the world raise funds for business ventures, medical expenses, personal needs, non-profits, churches, and funeral costs. On Givesend Go, you can raise money for whatever you need. We've met the people at the people at give send go and we can tell you that they're absolutely aligned with trigonometry on our approach

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easy and intuitive. Go to givsengo.com today. Start raising money for whatever important to you and support the people who support freedom. Now, back to the interview. Are you hopeful for America, Bill? Well, I ain't going anywhere, so yeah. I mean, I am... What about Mogadishu? I am amazed a little bit.

I am amazed a little bit that we take... Man, this country, we take a lickin and we keep... We keep on fucking ticket. Yeah. Really? We keep on ticket. I mean, I thought the pandemic with that kind of spending and keeping people home would take us down? No.

Trump! I can't believe we survived Trump. Are you guys Trumpers? No. No. However, I will ask you this because it's interesting to me. I did not like him. His personality is obnoxious.

I didn't like it. other things. This is what I want to ask you, right? Because I don't know too much enough about American politics to say whether his policies were good for it. Really? I don't. Oh, please. I don't.

Why are you suddenly pleading ignorance on this? This is what you do. No, hold on. Well, let's break it down, right? So was his policy on the border better or worse than Joe Biden? Looks like it's the same now. Right? Right.

At least he was trying, right? I mean, Biden's just letting people in like crazy. Yeah, I mean, I never thought a wall was a terribly practical solution because people have thought of it before. And there's just a lot of things you, obviously he couldn't get through. Obviously, he couldn't get it through. So that's how hard it is. You know, it's private land. You just can't build an unporous border.

Look, if the Republicans were serious about wanting to stop immigration, what they would do is they would crack down on the hiring. but they don't want to because they want the cheap labor. So they want to pretend that they are stopping people from coming in and they don't like people coming in, but they like it, drives down wages. And they could do that. You could crack down on that end of it. Okay. But that doesn't happen.

Nobody's going through the kitchen and yelling, immigration. From my perspective, it doesn't seem like Biden is better than Trump on that. When I look at the international situation, I mean, the American, respect for America is breaking down around the world. That's why you see all these conflicts. I may say that every year. Well, we see more conflicts every year. Are you kidding? We're fucking kicking ass.

We came back better from the pandemic economically than any other big point country. I don't know how we do it, but if you look at like the stock market from like 1990 to now, like if you had your money in American, stocks like three, four times better than anywhere else. I'm talking about geopolitics. No, no, but it matters. Of course it matters. No, you're right. I mean, the dollar is nobody's really even pretending that they could like replace the dollar or would want to.

I mean, with our kind of debt, I mean, at some point, is some of this going to come crashing down? It absolutely could. But I don't know. Like, we just keep on ticking. I just, I'm surprised that with all the shit. shit going on. America's a great country, but what I'm trying to get out with you.

It is. It is a great country. No, I'm not Mr. Ra, Ra. I'm just saying these are the facts. The biggest, like five biggest tech companies in the world I think are all American. I mean, yeah, China has you know, some things that we don't, but our military is

still like there's nobody even close. I'm, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm just saying, so. I'm team America. I am. No, this isn't about bragging about it. This is just factually like where we are. Let's not be let's not have the wrong idea in our head about where our exact place

in the world is. We're taking on water but for some reason we're not sinking. I'm just trying to get to the question which is you said something which is very interesting to me. You're a smart guy, you're a nuanced thinker but you said we survived Trump

and that surprised. Totally. What is it about... Are you kidding? So give people... Because he's crazy first of all. He's stupid and he's crazy. Is he stupid, Bill? He thought Frederick Douglass was alive. Are you kidding? Yes, he's stupid. He has a Hitlerian ability to move crowds.

Often with the same sort of thoughts about you're cheated and the soil and all this shit. Obviously he never went where Hitler went. I'm not comparing him with Hitler in that way. but just as a insane, but that also made him genius politician who can move people and just owns fucking people, just like owns them.

And that's his talent. But is he stupid? Yes. And he's fucking crazy. But aren't those two things in Congress that you've just said, that he's a politician of genius and he's stupid?

Politician. Yeah, of genius. But... Yes. It's the only thing. genius he is. Politically he's a genius. Yeah. Because he doesn't even think about it. It just comes

out of his id and that works for people. Even though he's the most full of shit guy he also is like the most honest. Like when he says shithole countries like lots of immigrants are like

yeah, that's exactly where I came from. Why do you think I fucking walked a thousand miles to get here? Because I was in a shithole. And this guy doesn't mince words. And because he almost, yeah, he can't help himself. He reveals himself. That's, it's insanity photographs.

What can I tell you? So he's mesmerizing to the media too. So he gets all that coverage. But yes, am I surprised we survived? And we really haven't yet, because he still hasn't conceded that election. Well, that's why I'm asking. Just the idea of a guy who doesn't concedes elections, okay?

You guys should, like, stop worrying about all these other little, that's it. That's the ballgame. If the guy doesn't concede elections. Did Hillary concede elections? Of course Hillary conceded. She said he's an illegitimate president. When did she say that? She said that in 2016.

She said he knows he isn't an illegitimate president. I believe he knows he's an illegitimate president. He knows. He knows that there were a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out the way it did. And I'd take responsibility for those parts of it that I should. And so I know that he knows that this wasn't on the level. I don't know that we'll ever know everything that happened, but clearly we know a lot and are learning more every day.

And history will probably sort it all out. So, of course, he's obsessed with me. And I believe that it's a guilty conscience in so much as he has a conscience. after the election. Yeah. Russia collusion, what was that, if not denying the election? They made up a story, which was a hoax. Well, it wasn't a hoax.

Yeah, it was. Well, just... What wasn't true? What part of... The Russia collusion. There was collusion with Russia. The idea... There was absolute collusion with Russia. Is that why he won the election, do you think?

Partly, it was a very close election. Yeah, you don't think Russia could sway, like, what, 77,000 votes in three states? Of course they could. And they did. Partly through social media, partly for the propaganda there and what they were trying to do there, which was very successful, cost about $100,000. And then, I mean, Trump's campaign manager was trading campaign data with a GRU. I think what Trump was saying is completely wrong. I agree.

But the Democrats also denied the election in 2016. They did. Okay. I mean, maybe one time Hillary said something like that. You asked her today, this is not an issue for the Democrats. You're making a ridiculously false comparison. Of course. Democrats are not the ones who deny elections.

Hillary got up there in her fucking purple suit and said, we lost. Al Gore did it. Took one for the fucking team in 2000. Agreed. It's just a ridiculous false conspiracy. A false comparison? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So looking at Trump, and let's look at on a global scale, like we were talking about before, if you look at work with Biden when he's come to power, there has been the Russian invasion of Ukraine, there has been the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan. And you've also as well got Bill, now this situation flaring up. And some people would say the argument that they put forward is this is all happening. because Biden is a weak leader, people have seen that

and are using that opportunity to then pursue their own ends. Well, you know, whenever I hear something like the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, it's just like, oh, right-wing talking point. Not that it's not true. It is true, but it's like, really give a shit.

I mean, should they have handled it a little better? Absolutely. I'm not sure America ever handles anything well. We're just a fuck-up country now, in a lot of ways. I just, I don't know if any president under any conditions, but this one finally said, let's get the fuck out of here.

This is a crazy thing to be here forever. We're here 20 years. We just got to go. I mean, it's probably going to be shitty no matter how we do it. No, you know, if Mitt Romney was president, would it have gone better? Yeah, but it would. Because Mitt Romney was like much more of a detail.

You know, he tried to cast himself as a, conservative real hard right guy when he ran. He was a manager of detail. He was a Mormon. Couldn't be a nicer guy. Could he have, yeah. He might have been the guy who like stayed up looking over the plans and the

data at 4 in the morning. You know, Clinton was that guy. You know, people who really like government want to make it work well. Biden's not that guy. Yeah. He didn't do that with Afghanistan. But it's like you know, just so reflexive.

Here's something we can hate about this guy who we want to talk bad about. I'm not on that page. That's a little too, like, just one-sided for me. He, you know, do I love everything with Joe Biden? Absolutely not. Last week, I called for him to not run again. Ruth Bader Biden, I would call again.

You think he's too old? I think the country does, and that's all that matters. And he will not win. He'll look terrible in the debates, and Trump will win, and that will be a disaster. And there should be no discussion after he does not concede elections. Not, I mean, yes, Stacey Abrams also said something about, I mean, this is like, yes, you can always make some case on the other side.

It has nothing to do with a guy who was president, never advertised he was never going to concede an election. didn't, still doesn't, we'll do it again. That's, nothing is on that level. If you, if that is where you are,

I don't care what his fucking policy on Turkmenistan is. I hear, I hear. You're just qualified. Democracy relies on losers' consent. Correct. It's what we have over the other countries that so many other countries in the world

can't get that one thing right. Yeah. Like they, you know, the old Soviet. days used to always see like they would check like who was standing closest to the coffin

you know like and that was usually the guy who knocked off the guy before him and or who was going to be next and you know it wasn't done through a system it was like who's just kind of like

it was survivor you know and then it was oh Brezhnev okay and then he got to be that's not the way we did it and this guy wants to bring that to here. Yeah, that doesn't work. Do you think one of the distinctions as well is what happened

on January the 6th, right? Because whatever the Democrats may have said, that never happened. It was just a different level. You know, physical, people physically going into the Capitol. And I, I mean, it's not what Trump said on that day. It wasn't like he got up there and said,

go and take over the Capitol. Kind of. Not totally. It was that up until that moment he still hadn't conceded. Yeah. It was the whole, it's not one moment. It was like his whole view that he was telling his people that this, and, you know, when you do this against what Republican vote counters were telling him.

I mean, that's bending over backwards. Yeah. Even the Republicans told him, his own people. Yeah. And the decent people who are Republicans in many states, all the, you know, all the, you know, states were lawsuits were, you know, lots of, this was left out of court like 60 times or something. And they still tried to peddle that boat. That is just unacceptable. Don't come to me with like, and Trump did this. No. That's fair enough, Bill. And do you think in 2024, do you think he's going to,

do you think he's going to win the nomination? Do you think he's going to go the whole way? There's no doubt it would be the nominee. And he very well could win. And that. And that's, you know, And then we would be, I believe, governed by him under house arrest of Mar-a-Lago. That's probably where he will be. And he will run the country from Mar-a-Lago. They will never put him in jail, but he will be convicted, at least in one of these trials. And then he will be, I mean, you know, it'll be like in Goodfellas where they smuggle in a salami. He's got wine.

in the tomatoes. No, they're wearing tracks suits. I mean, it's not going to be some Jeffrey Epstein jail cell. No, he'll probably be a house arrest at Maralonga. That is where the, I mean, that's the final, and then

AI takes over in that work. I honestly, with AI, don't think, will make it through the decade. You've been reading about that? I got Tristan Harris on real-time Friday, and we're going to talk about it, and I have been reading about it, and it's super

frightening, but, yeah, I've got to go back to my day job. Bill, what a pleasure. It's been great. That's a pleasure. I appreciate you guys coming in. I love what you do. I feel like this stern talking to tonight was well in order.

I hope to see it reflected in your show in the future. All right. Best of luck, boys.