TRIGGERnometry - The Rise of WEAK Politicians - James Whale

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

James Whale MBE is a British radio personality, television presenter, podcast host and author. He gained initial prominence in the 1980s as the host of The James Whale Radio Show on Radio Aire in Leeds, which was simulcast on national television. From 1995 to 2008, James hosted a night time radio show on talkSPORT (Talk Radio 1995–2000), followed by stints on LBC 97.3 and various BBC radio stations. Currently he hosts his own podcast, The James Whale Show, and a night time weekly radio show on talkRADIO. Follow James on X: https://x.com/THEJamesWhale/ Sponsor: Save 30% off your first subscription order & receive a free six-pack of Ketone-IQ with https://ketone.com/TRIGGERNOMETRY Join our Premium Membership for early access, extended and ad-free content: https://triggernometry.supercast.com OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ YouTube: @xentricapc  Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/#mailinglist Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I even spent a night with Margaret Thatcher at Stringfellow's Club. That's probably a story for another time. I'm not sure it is. She can't dangle that one. And that's something I'm not going to forget. We are Margaret Thatcher in the strip club. Yeah, I imagine you wouldn't.

Back when in the times of Bernard Manning and the reason I bring him up is you kind of remind me of his personality. You know, but probably, probably... Are you optimistic about the path that this country is on? Well, if they get it sorted out, yeah. But if they carry on the way that they are at the moment, no. So James, you are a legend of broadcasting.

Yeah, you are, mate. You've been broadcasting for X amount of years. You can tell you're born, by the way. Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to, I'm trying to... No, you can tell he's British, because in America, if you said you're a legend of broadcasting, the guy would be sitting there, like, soaking it is.

Really? Yeah, oh, absolutely. Of course I am. Yeah, I'm a legend of broadcasting. It means I'm very old and at the end of my time and I can look back. Well, yeah, okay. Well, there goes out. Strong start. There goes out compliment. But it must be very interesting because you have seen Britain from when you started broadcasting to where we are now. Yeah. What are the changes that have happened? And not only that, what are the trends that you've seen in your time? What a good question to start with.

I've seen a lot and it does go and comes back. You know, in the 70s, we had race problems. In the 80s, we had work problems. In the 90s, you know, then we have the COVID problems and now we've got the riots. The 90s were pretty decent though, won't they? The 90s weren't bad, actually. The 90s were quite chilled and laid back,

which for doing the sort of shows that you guys do, that I do isn't very good. You need to wind it up a bit. So it didn't work. But I think the problems are that we've reached a stage where a lot of people are being exceptionally nice, you know, the so-called wokeies, being very nice to each other, must always use the right gender and all that, bollocks. Oh, sorry, can I?

Yeah, bollocks away. Okay. But the majority of people aren't like that. And so you now get this sort of level of people in politics and management and stuff who are trying to be so diverse and so popular and everything else. And it leaves a lot of people pretty cold and they don't seem to realize that. So that's why I think we've got a lot of tension at the moment. Because it's a good point which what you're talking about is that disconnect between, for one of a better term, the political elite and ordinary people. Wasn't it always just like that?

because let's think, let's be honest, people, you know, these very rare that you get working class people are sent to the top of politics. Social media has changed everything. And so that now people, all of us, I don't understand the class system really, because people sort of would call me middle class, a bit like you. Yeah. Born in a similar place. But I don't consider I went to a really bad school and, you know, left without.

any qualifications because they didn't really do that stuff there, just wanted to keep you quiet until you left. And it wasn't until later that I realized that you can actually achieve whatever you really set your heart, if you try, if you want to do it. And I think we have got to a situation now where everybody can see into the lives of anyone they want on social media, and therefore people think, well, I want that. And quite often how a lot of people want stuff without having to work for it. You know, you don't see many people of whatever they're earning

without the trendiest clothes they can find. Sorry, I'm just in a... Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because that's actually so true. And I've done that in certain situations where I've wanted something I've seen, but then when I've actually attempted to get it, I've suddenly realized, oh, this is actually like a lot of work

to do. And I don't want to do the work that it takes to get this. And somebody said this to, I think it was to Francis, another comedian that we used to know from the circuit, he was like, oh, I'd love to do what you do. And Francis was like, no, you wouldn't. No, you wouldn't. He doesn't want any competition. Well, apart from that, but, you know, it took us a long time we were talking before we started to get to where we got to. So you think because we now have a window into the lives of almost everybody. Yeah. everybody's kind of in the position where they can aspire to things without actually necessarily being cognizant of what it takes together.

So you see a politician or a celebrity or whatever and you can see their lives are, well, I can do that, I could be that. Why shouldn't I have a go? And that's the thing. If everybody knew that, then more people would be doing it. More people would be trying to do it. We seem to still have this rather, I don't know. I mean, politicians at the moment, there's some really good ones, but not many.

they're all a bit weak. And I think that's why we are where we are. I mean, I had the pleasure of meeting Margaret Teague a few times. And I even spent a night with Margaret Thatcher at Stringfellow's club. That's probably a story for another time. I'm not sure it is. You can't dangle that one and then, no. Well, but you know Stringfellows.

You've heard of it, obviously. Yeah, I thought so. So anyway, Peter rang me one night and said, we're having a do at Stringfellies. It's not like it normally is. I wondered if you come down and look after a table, a lady called Maggie. I said, Maggie, who? He said, well, who do you think? So I said, well, yeah, okay, well, she's she doing his string fellows?

He said, we're going to have a, because he was quite, quite a conservative supporter, who's having a fundraising evening. And so Margaret was the host of the evening. And I arrived and we got chatting, a little old lady sitting next to that I realized was her PA. Said, oh, and who are you, dear? And Margaret chipped in and said, oh, this is James. He's a rude man on the radio. He's very funny.

And a good friend of my daughters, which at the time I was. You know, she appeared on, she was quite high profile at the time. But it was the funniest thing I've ever seen. She was such a natural, ordinary person. And Peter came up and said everything okay yesterday. And he said, you're ready to sort of work the clubs, get a few donations? And she said, just point me in the right direction. And off she went.

Wow. And, you know, you remember certain things in your life and that's something I'm not going to forget. Well, yeah, Margaret Thatcher in the strip club. Yeah, I imagine you wouldn't. This is not the most forgettable experience. Just before you try saying anything, she didn't. Thank God. She left the polls alone.

Yeah, it sounds like Jeremy Corbyn's worst nightmare, mate. Oh, God. Well, if he's watching, Jeremy, if you want to go to string fellows, just give me a nod. There we go. I mean, we talk about Margaret Thatcher. And look, Constan and I talk about this all the time. We talk about the caliber of politicians.

Maybe it's the fact that we're into our 40s now. No, I thought you were in your 20s. Thank you. Great. Welcome back any time you want. And I'm thinking, is it because I'm getting older that I eulogize these figures from my youth and my childhood? Or were the caliber of politicians better back then?

I think it has got to do with time changes your opinion or what happened before. But I do think politicians felt that they were in charge in those days. Politicians that we vote in to be in charge now want to be your best mate. Don't want to offend you. Really don't want to sort of do anything that might suddenly, if I called you specky-for-I-d-get, you know, and in an interview that would be considered appalling. Well, absolutely appalling.

And you wouldn't see anything like that in the main source. mainstream media, would you? No. Everybody wants to be... Now, this is interesting. Everybody wants to be nice and pleasant, and we've got the worst crime rates, the worst knife crime rates,

going for years. Even in the time of the mods and rockers, I don't remember the Teddy Boys, but the mods and rockers, they were fighting on the beaches with flick knives and everything else, and it didn't seem anywhere near as violent as it is now.

And you're talking, the Teddy Boys were the 50s, and mods and Rockers were obviously the 1960s. Yeah. And that's where... Sorry, that's history, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so there's a period of time

that actually interests me a great deal. But it's interesting now because it is that contrast where everybody's like, no, we can't say this because it mustn't offend people. And on the other hand, you're looking at what's happening

into this country at this very moment. Yeah. I mean, we're descending into chaos, aren't we, really? You're both comedians were, was, are What do you think of comedy from back then? From back when? Back when in the times of Bernard Manning and I don't know, lots of top comedians,

he's the only name I can think of at the moment. But lots of comedians on TV, Bernard got thrown off quite early on because he was, I knew Bernard quite well, and you would have got on with him very well. The reason I'll bring him up is you kind of remind me of his personality.

Do you know, but probably, probably know what you're saying. The reason we're laughing is Bernard Manning in the modern comedy industry is a bit of a hate figure. Yeah. It's sort of in the wokey and he's seen as some massive races. So the entire comedy industry, which hates us anyway, is now watching this going, we told you. Francis is Bernard Manning. And in fact, Francis, he's been on TV a lot since, but the first major appearance he ever had on a TV show was a BBC documentary.

They did a bad offence and comedy. And we sat down for like a good hour with the woman who was doing it. And the only clip of Francis they used was him defending Bernard Manning. Good man. Good man. Can I tell you?

This was a great moment in the history. Can I tell you why? Let me tell you a little bit about Bernard. Yeah. In the year 2000, I originally contracted cancer. And luckily I went on for quite a bit after that So Bernard would ring my wife at the time And every day

And he got, I was all right, is you're right? It's not very good Bernard accent, but that sort of thing It's a bit West Country, but we'll stick with it Yeah Who's that other comedian from the West Country? I like him, one word name Oh, Jethro. Jethro, yeah, yeah

You might be a bit of him too No, but Bernard, the thing about Bernard, his next-door neighbor was an Indian doctor. And he, you probably know this, all right, he and Bernard were best mates. And Bernard would be rude about everybody, not just, you know, one. He had a club called the Embassy Club in Manchester, and it burnt down, strangely enough. And the first night it came back, we decided we would do my late-night TV show from his club. And I know if I can tell this story, I'm just thinking about it here. Anyway, basically, he walks on stage.

Nothing used to be scripted with Bernard as well. He walked on stage with a fire extinguisher under his arm and it, that fucking Colonel Gaddafi got the wrong fucking embassy. You know, the whole place, and there were people of all colors and all in that club, laughing at everything he said. And he would pick on various people. And it was just very funny. But it was offensive.

Yeah. Now, if you were offensive as a comedian, you would be cancelled. You're not having you appear here. Is that why you gave it all up and you're doing this? No. No, not at all. Part of the reason that we're doing this is because I did feel that things were, well, I think it's undeniable that things in comedy became more and more restricted. People were getting cancelled. You could see, you see jokes that worked six months ago. Suddenly the audience. You see jokes that worked six months ago. Suddenly, the audience. became really tight and tense around it. You're going, what's going on here? You know, people who are liberal becoming more illiberal. Look, we've covered this a lot. So that's partly the reason why.

Well, yeah, and the sensitivity that people often think about it in terms of like cancellation, but I remember the first joke I ever wrote, the very, very first joke was, this was in 2014, I don't remember, but that was when Russia had just taken Crimea from Ukraine. I do.

And the first joke I wrote is, I'm Russian, my wife is Ukrainian, she likes her independence. That was the first joke I wrote. You used to get a massive laugh. But then over the course of a few years, it became completely, you know, it just stopped being something that you could joke about because everyone takes everything seriously nowadays. It's a shame because it is actually making life more tense. Because if you laugh at something, take the mick out of something, then it gets easier to handle. That's my view. No. And so what's interesting is we were talking about America before we started. In America, this is totally not the case. Yeah. So in America, all the comedians that are now successful are the super offensive ones. Yeah. You know, we've had a bunch of them on the show. You're Tony Hinchcliffs. Who would be other good examples? Andrew Schultz. Bill Burr.

Bill Burr, Shane Gillis, Joe Rogan. A bunch of them. He's very funny. Yeah. He's. And so all of these guys, they are making waves now. And, They just don't seem to have that super restrictive culture that we have in this country. Do you have any insight on why that is? The Britain is a little bit more touchy feeling about stuff like that. We got ourselves into that woke situation when things were a bit rough and a little bit uncomfortable. And people thought, well, we should be nicer to everybody. And then they tried to enforce it.

And I think it was during the time of the Blair government when things began to get into this situation. because it just got that you couldn't be rude about it. You can't say you're a fat git. You can't say you're a bull bastard. Both of those. You know, it gets to a situation where everybody takes everything so seriously. And what's going to happen and what seems to be happening now is it's just going to explode. Yeah.

And this is, I think, the point that people don't make enough, actually, when it comes to comedy. It is a pressure valve. Yeah. It is. You know, you make a few jokes. It's that classic thing. It's why firefighters, doctors, teachers, they tend to have the darkest...

The military as well. Yeah, the military. You tend to have the darkest sense of humor. Yeah. Because when you're confronted by the brutal facts of life, completely unvarnished, the only way you can cope with it, well, there's a couple of ways.

You either hit the source, you get on something a little bit harder, or you have a joke and a laugh about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I do a program. I've always done a program. I suddenly found when I was in my 20s and my first radio station in the Northeast. And, you know, I got onto radio by, not by accident, by really just thinking in the way I thought,

I'd like to do that. Couldn't do much else. I've been to drama school for a little bit. That didn't really do me much good. They said, your voice doesn't sound like you look. You've got a leading man's voice and you've got the villain's face. I said, all right. So change one or the other.

So I thought radio is the place to go. And I found everybody was so, everybody was on the radio, hi. It's really nice to have you. And you, of course, are the most important people, you listeners. And it's really great. And I'm so happy. And I'm sure you're happy. And it was all this pleasantness.

And I was doing an interview with the late Dame Edna. And he said, I listened to you a bit. He said, could I give you a word of advice? I'm not doing the Australian accent. I said, yeah, he said, just be a little more cutting. I said, all right. He said, everybody in this country seems in the media to want to be nice. And as you know, Dame Ednery, he was quite rude.

And so sort of, I decided phone calls on air, the machinery had just come in. And everybody's excited, you can actually do this and plug it on air and take a phone call and people can hear it. So I was on the late night show anyway, so I said to he said, I don't really care what you do. He said, nobody listens after six o'clock. Six till six was the programming format at the time. And I ended up having a few calls. It was very nice, a couple of days. And then somebody rang in and said something stupid, I thought was stupid. I said, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I've had enough of you, goodbye, bang. And phone calls lit up. Absolutely like a, a.

And even now, a little controversy or confrontation on the air, people want to, they want something that's, as long as you're doing it in a funny way. I mean, a lot of mine is tongue in cheek, even though some of the people that I'll have a go at don't realize it. Particularly the bloke who came in said he could prove there were aliens. And in the end, I held up this picture. And he said, this is my life's work. You're ridiculing my life's work. I said, this is a picture. And you say, it proves there are aliens.

how I'm telling you there are alien. And we have this argument. I said, I think you better leave. And he said, I'm bloody going and got on stormed off the show. Great ratings. I'm trying not to do it too often, but sometimes it's difficult. You get onto a role. What have you like learned?

Because one of the, I remember somebody saying to me in like a customer service job that I worked and when I was a student, like when you encounter Joe Public, it changes your perception of reality forever. Like dealing with people calling into a radio show, you must learn something from that. You must sort of think in a slightly different way about life when you encounter something. I actually think nobody's really that different. You know, we're all pretty similar. We were in the pub.

We'd be no different to anybody else in the pub. We're lucky to do a job that I think is really, I've never really had a job. Yeah. 50 years, I've managed to come my way through not having a job and just talking. How can that be a job? You know, people think, oh, you must spend lots of time doing research. I'd much rather, on my TV or radio show, or both now combined, talk to people on the phone and have reactions on the phone

than sometimes having some of the most boring people in the studio. And I think people are more entertaining than a lot of those who feel that they're in a superior position. So what I started doing was talking to people who thought they were in a superior position as if they were just a phone caller. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? No, absolutely.

It's a really interesting point because, and it speaks to the disconnect between politicians and the elite, for one of a better way of putting it, and Joe Public, whereby they think they're so smart, they think that they, you know, that they're in control, they're in charge. They're not. And they're not. And most of the time, every time they try and trick the public, the public's like, hang on a minute, mate. But you've just said this five minutes ago. So why are you saying this now? Come on. And they get exposed. It's they constantly underestimate the intelligence of the ordinary man or woman. Where does that leave us in the middle with them or with them? And that's a conflict. You know, the fact that now having an opinion different to the government, at this moment makes your right-wing extremist. And we're conflicting, you know, people with one view with these thugs and yods and scumbags

who are, you know, hurling bricks, burning cars, beating people up. They're actually mentally incapable, in my view. Probably need some sort of help. But if somebody says, well, I'm concerned about migration. for that seems to be the big story, then you are a right-wing thug. I mean, that's not going to go down well, is it?

No, it's not. It's not. And you just think, they've got all these advisors. They've been to the best universities. They're educated, they're intelligent. People go, Kirstomber isn't it intelligent? I'm going, come on, you know. But the fact that they, to me,

that is an unforgivable gaffe, really. Just because you went to university doesn't mean that you're more intelligent than somebody who didn't. It may mean you are cleverer in a certain field. I didn't find out until I was in my 30s that I am severely dyslexic, which then answered lots of questions about why I couldn't stand school and various other things. But, you know, people are intelligent and some people use it in one way, some people use it in another way.

But this idea that if you are in maybe even bank manager, lawyer, accountant, you know, these politician, political advisors. Have you noticed how many political advisors there are now? Anybody can be one. So they all assume that they're more intelligent than the others, but that isn't true. No. And it rapidly happens again and again and again. And what it does is it betrays a certain arrogance amongst a political class.

Yeah, no, I agree. I totally agree. But you see, I've got this idea that if you're going to be a politician, you should only be allowed to do two terms. It shouldn't be a career. It should be a calling because you want to do things for the country and for the people. People now talk about politics as a career. And so they go to university, they get a job as a political advisor or a spokesperson or whatever it is, and then they get put forward to stand as a politician. And they, I mean, that's such a great point. I mean, the problem is, is there are some people who are career politicians. Like, take Corbyn, for example, whatever you think of the man's politics, I speak to a lot of people in his constituency. He's a fantastic constituency MP. I mean, he then got exposed when he went further up the ladder. So I guess there is that balance where there are people who are very good politicians and they care deeply about their community and they're very good at their community. And they're very good at their community. But I do think there are people as well who are naked careerists who have very little interest in serving their communities. I agree. I totally agree. But until people begin to realize that voting does make a difference, you know, so many people in this country didn't vote in the last election. And we're being governed by a party that had, was it, 20%, 30%. 33.8. Yeah. How can that be right? How can that be Democratic? when obviously the vast majority of people didn't vote for them.

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weekend. Only on Netflix May 8th. So people feel they're on, you've moved that. You moved that thing so I couldn't keep an eye myself. Yeah, so just so people know what he's talking about, we have a screen here so our producer can see all the different shots and angles.

And James was in one and he was complaining more than our female guest about the way he looks. Yeah. Which is quite a high bar because they're always whining. I am very in touch with my female side. I very seldom go out without makeup. Really?

Oh yeah. Well, you've got a little blemish there, I can see. But, you know, do you not ever think about it but doing a bit? Have you done makeup? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not to go out, though. Yeah.

You wouldn't go out with a bit of makeup on? And you know, I hate watching sport on TV. I'm not interested in football or cricket, but I do like going shopping. And I love the odd scatter cushion. But, James. Do you, your present, does that make me a bad person? I mean, you're a presenter on talk sport. How can you talk, not sport.

Oh, you didn't do talk sport. I thought you did talk sport. I did do talk sport. I was the only non-sports program on the station. Oh, there you go then. I was a leftover from the original talk radio. And then it went to talk sport. But we had such a good audience.

They said, well, no one is going to want to talk about sport in the evening. And until I had a little fallout at that time with the current, not the current management, but the management that were there and went to LBC, I was the only non-sports program on Talk Sport, which is quite funny, really, when you think about it. Yeah, it is. I consider my program as sport in itself. But I don't think just because I like shopping and don't like sport,

makes me a bad person. No, nobody said that. No, no, I know. I mean, we insinuated it. Yeah, exactly. We all know it's true. But James, I wanted to ask you something, and I hope it's not too personal the question, but you mentioned getting cancer in 2000, and obviously you've got it.

Now, how does it change your perspective on life when you kind of know that your time is, like we all know our time is limited, but you know what I mean. My first thought was, God, I can make a load of money as a hitman. And not fear any consequences. The fact is you have to come to terms with it. I've been very lucky. Listen, imagine in my, I was in my situation. I have level four cancer.

It's terminal. I should have been dead four years ago. So I don't know. Any, any, you know, if I've, Evo now, you're just going to have to get somebody to come and take me away. I'm philosophical in the way that everybody's going to die. We're all going to die. I have been waiting for it, or not waiting for it, but knowing that I'm probably not going to see maybe next Christmas.

But I've been saying that for the last four years. But I do have quite a lot of tumours. The interesting thing is that a lot of people think, because I don't look ill particularly, and I don't sound ill, although you saw me come in, I look a bit of a knackard old get, really. some people think you're putting it on. I couldn't assure you I'm not putting it on. You're putting on the tumours. I'll tell you, listen, I don't really show this very often, but because I'm on all kinds of tablets and things,

look what it does to you. There really is no way of dealing with this I find than talking about it, no better way. And people are embarrassed to talk to you about it. So my wife and I do this podcast called tales of the whales which is just it's about having cancer and being the person with somebody who has it and it's difficult and people get very upset about it but we are the worst country in the world for talking about death other countries talk about it it's part of their their existence

we never want to talk about it do we why do you think that is i don't know frightened this sort of pseudo religious christian view that we're all supposed to have about if we don't, you know, religion, I don't like religion much. I'm sorry, I don't want to offend anyone, but the two main religions, Christianity and Islam, all they seem to want to do is convert you to their way of thinking, and if they don't, then they get very upset with you. I don't have any worry about that.

I'm going to die. What's after that, if anything, who knows? Be an experience. But I think you have to, it's all part of life, if you like. I do try and do things I want to do, rather than saying, oh, I wouldn't mind doing that next year. So you can get on and do things. And I suggest anybody from the age of 40 upwards,

because that's when things start going wrong. Do get regular checks. I mean, you're both very fit and very healthy. But I bet you've not had a medical for a while. I have. Have you? Yep. You were even better then.

Yeah. Good. I actually, when we were in America, I met a guy called Peter Tia, who's written a book called Outlive, which is all about. how do you extend the part of your life when you're not ill? Because most modern medicine is about you get really ill at the end of your life and then they make that last. And that's great. Because you're a good example of this. You've had a lot more time than initially you might have thought you would.

But in an ideal world, what you want to do is extend the part of your life when you're not seriously. You don't want to be in bed with tubes stuck in you and kept alive for as long as they can, which is why I'm a believer in that, you know, when you get to that. stage where you can't get out of bed, you can't go to the toilet, you can't do anything on your own, you should be allowed to have a, I wouldn't do that to my dog. And you should be allowed to have an injection and peacefully slip away. Yeah. We have the technology to do it. Yeah. And just coming back a little bit, James, you mentioned, you know, having to kind of come to a position when you accept that, was that the way you always felt or has it been your experience that you've had to

kind of get to that position? No, I think I've been, people might say I'm a bit blasé, but if I'm on my own for a while, sitting at home and, you know, thinking about things too deeply, you can get a bit depressed about it. Of course. But I've thought, well, it's part of life. It's going to happen. I mean, I don't, I don't know if I want to talk about.

My wife died about five, six years ago. And when she was very ill, and I was in my local pub, a lady came up to me and just said, oh, I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear about your wife, but she's under the same doctor as my husband, and he's been doing marvellous things for him. And I said, well, okay, fine. Cut to some time later, and my wife had died.

I was in the pub, and this lady came up to me and said, oh, I'm so sorry to hear about, about your wife, here's my card. I'm collecting clothes for the homeless. I thought, you miserable cow. My wife's just died in you. That lady and I are now married. Wow. And the last thing that my I don't know, how do you, not my ex-wife, my dead one, anyway, my wife before said to me, She said you must find a mate. You cannot cope on your own because apparently I'm pretty useless at ordinary stuff. And I had absolutely no intention of finding someone.

And this lady walked into my life. Really spooky. Yeah. And sorry, I don't want to flatten everything. No, no, no, no, no. For me, it's been great. I mean, you know, she's an amazing lady, except that her husband died. of cancer and now her next husband's got it as well. So I feel a little sorry for her.

But, you know, it's a very powerful story, James, because what it's talking about really is a human spirit and the human condition and that death is part of life and it's obviously sad and obviously you're going to mourn and obviously you're going to get upset, but also life carries on. Yeah. And, you know, I think the vast, vast majority of people, when they're gone, they don't want life to stop for their loved ones. They don't want life to stop for their kids, their wife, wherever else. It's important that we carry on and that we continue to live. And you know, you've got to the middle age stage. So you've got now, you can look back on what you've done, what you've achieved and enjoy it. But you've also got that time that you've got to continue

to, I've got to the interesting bit now, you know, in a few years, I'm going to be 80. I never thought I'd live that long for any time. Did you not? No, no, I never thought about it, to be honest. Never. I thought when I started off on the year and the age of 20, you guys your age were old. Guys our age are old. Yeah. No, you're not.

And it just suddenly changed. And I suddenly, when I first got cancer, I was 49. Don't want to worry you, but in my 40s. And that was a, you know, I had a huge operation, took one kidney out. They said, we don't know how long you're going to live. It could be two years maybe, could be 20. And from that time on, I always made the most of everything I was doing. Was that a big, sorry, Francis, was that a big shift?

Like, before that, did you kind of go through life the way many people do, which is sort of thing? Oh, I'll do that late. I've got time. I've got this. And then when you got the cancer, you were like, okay, actually, my time is limited. I'm going to go for it. Absolutely. So I've had 20 great years until my last one.

I've died, obviously, but then this other amazing and beautiful lady came into my life. And, you know, I didn't think things like that could happen. James, it's going to ask a bit of a silly question, but I really think that there's a lot in this. You said make the most of it. And it's one of those sayings that we often use in conversation. What do you mean by make the most of it? Well, I could be sitting at home watching Homes Under the Hammer at this particular. moment in time, or I could be sitting here doing this, which is far more entertaining and

interesting. And believe you, me, it took a lot to get me motivated to get up and do it because you're not paying. So I, that's what I mean by make the most of it. It's so easy when you're not feeling well or you're not too good, just to sit back, cuddle the dog, you know, bring the wife at work, annoy her. But If you get up and do stuff, I mean, I've been under some really, really, I don't know, I wasn't going to talk about this, but really tough chemo. I couldn't walk. I'm just getting my walking back. My feet were like somebody who's holding a cigarette lighter underneath them.

Tips of my fingers, all funny, sore. My whole mouth full of blisters. And it was just doing me in. So I made the decision for the moment anyway until I see my doctor next week. I've taken myself off the chemo and I'm feeling a lot better today than I did yesterday. And the effects do go fairly quickly. But I've got to decide, do I want to stay on this that makes me feel really bad? And, you know, it's keeping the tumours at bay, shrunk a few of the tumors.

but do I want to live in this way where everything is a strain or just say no, I'll just see how it goes? Yeah, it's, you know, it puts a lot of the problems that we all have in very, very sharp focus because, you know, you think the problems that you deal with maybe with career or friendships or relationships, you know, the normal stresses and strains of life. You tend to blow them up. I certainly do. But then when you look at things when it comes to your health, you realize that's actually what's important. And what we fail to realize is how much we take our health for granted. But don't feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for children

who are born with cancer. Feel sorry for the young 20-year-olds who one of the parents of young children suddenly finds they've got cancer and they're not going to live very long. I mean, I'm lucky. I've had a good life. I've made it at 70 over 70, heading to 80. I mean, but just think of those people. You guys, if you, you know, I don't know whether you're married or not or with each other. I don't really care. But imagine if one of you gets it and you've got responsibility of looking after other people at a reasonably young age. So I'm, in many ways, I think I'm really thankful about this. I've made old age.

And loads of people don't. And what people don't understand, all this rioting in the streets and kicking off about stupid things, guys, you're all going to die. So rather than complaining that way that doesn't really achieve anything, it'll quieten down and then they'll probably still go on for another 10 years and then flare up again. of better ways of sorting out our problems. We've never, we've never done that as a race, have we? You know, we've always resorted to violence when we get to a certain stage, and it doesn't work. It never has done, anyway.

Yeah, and you mentioned that you'd seen these types of problems before in the 70s. What was that like? Well, it was, you know, we're three-day weeks and no, no electricity, and, uh, no electricity. And, uh, We had, what was his name, as the Prime Minister. Talahan. No, before him, or after him. The gay guy. I shouldn't say that.

We've had a gay Prime Minister? We have, yeah. Well, allegedly. Edward Heath. Edward Heath, yeah. There we go. Allegedly, okay. And I think, learn something.

Yeah. The gay one. Yeah. And they, um, Those guys, Callahan as well, they didn't really have any contact with the people. That was when they didn't realize. And before social media, when a fax machine was state of the art. When I started out, there were no mobile phones.

God, you could do all sorts of things. Nobody could find you. Right. So how, so you've got all these problems in society back then. You mentioned also that there was a racial tension going on at the time. Do you see what's happening now is just another flare-up of that? Or do you think things have changed significantly? I think things have changed.

I don't see it as there's a flare-up. I see it that people have been unhappy for quite some time. You know, we have suddenly heard that pensioners like me are not going to have their winter fuel alliance. anymore. It doesn't matter so much for me, but for a lot of people it does. Actually, it does for me too when I think about it.

It's all worthwhile. I forget how much money I'll waste it in my life. And I think when people, now just ordinary people see, it's okay to spend billions to send to another country to do this, to do that. When we are in a financial pit, we are not, you know, We've got no money.

We've got to put the tax up. So pensioners are probably going to have to start paying their national insurance again because you get to pensional age. You don't have to pay it. Are you optimistic about the path that this country is on? Well, if they get it sorted out, yeah. But if they carry on the way that they are at the moment, no, because what they're doing at the moment is that they are actually separating different people.

you know, they're going with one side and not the other, not trying to be the government of all the people. The last government were just too wet and too weak and too wrapped up in themselves to be doing any good either. So you said something very interesting, which was if they sort things out. What do you mean by that, James? Well, they've got to sort out what the public feel.

Now, if I say this, we're going to be written off or I am as a right-wing extremist. I mean, isn't everyone nowadays? Yeah, but people want, you know, we're paying billions of pounds to put people who've come here illegally. I'm not talking about people who come here illegally and want to contribute and want to live because they want to be part of Britain and they want to live like Britain. I'm talking about a people who come here and want to live as if they were in the country they left and not integrate. And that's our fault in many ways. We should be more acceptable of trying to help people integrate.

We must do that. And then we spend all this money. putting people in hotels and there are lots of people living on the street. There's an enormous housing problem in this country where people are living in accommodation that's really not fit or habitable and the rents are going sky high. And then they, you know, it's not being racist. It's being practical. The people who've been here, have never gone anywhere else who find life tough and a struggle

and get caught in that area of, I've got no hope and nothing to look forward to and everything else. And the government don't seem to understand it. You know, they talk about, well, the more population we can grow, the better it is for our financial situation. Well, it doesn't seem to be, does it? I mean, we're having to borrow trillions. We're never going to get that back. And we've been invaded, if you lie, that really upsets people when I say that, but we've been invaded by people in little boats coming here illegally, which if it was a land border with a fence, we'd be far more aggressive about keeping people who wanted to come here illegally out, wouldn't we?

Yet we're just saying, oh, sympathising, oh, poor people come here. All these are guys, young guys in their 20s, 30s, not really. Maybe they should be in their countries helping sort that out, rather than coming here. And why do you think both a Labour and a conservative government would allow that to happen? Because I think they think that the more people they can draw in, the more people they can make money out of. And I'm not really sure how that's going to work. I mean, an economist might tell you, but they seem to feel that the bigger the population, the bigger the growth. But we are spending now.

It's like you and I going out and spending what we have got in the bank and then borrowing some more and going to spending that as well. I think it's a dangerous position that they don't realize that. But a lot of people are very worried. When they see somebody who's just come to this country illegally, put into a nice home, they're now talking about putting people who've come here illegally into houses that are empty. What about all the people on the waiting list? I mean, how many young people, I imagine you guys lucky enough to get your own places and, you know, could you do that today?

If we were in our 20s today, could we do it? People of our generation really struggle to get on the house. housing letter. And we're in our 40s. Yeah. So what it's like for young people, I dread to imagine. Well, it's almost impossible. You know, it's almost impossible. I know from my own family and members of my own family absolutely find it impossible to save enough money to have a deposit to put on a house. And they can say, well, we're building loads, but they might be building, but they're not building houses that are affordable. Yeah, but they're also not building loads. They're not building anywhere near enough.

No. No. There's an enormous amount of greenery around here. Yeah. That's why we're out here. Well, I think it's nicer than being in the city. But it actually is not funny, is it, when you think about it. When I grew up in the 70s, it was quite easy to buy a house.

You know, my first house cost six grand. What? It's not that funny. I don't know. I think it's pretty funny. Put it this way. Six grand. Six grand. But I earned 50 pounds a week, and that was quite a lot of money.

My first radio contract was 2,500 pounds a year, a year. Yeah, but still, that's three annual salaries bought your house. That is not remotely the case for most people nowadays. Yeah. Right. And the mortgage I had at the time, I mean, was sort of half the money I earned. So it was, you know, it did seem difficult. But, and, you know, there is no way you could buy a house on an average wage three times an average wage you wouldn't get a house for.

Yeah. Yeah. And that is such a huge problem. It's such a cause of so much of what we're seeing now. You know, there's a lot of people who come on this show and I do it as well and, you know, make complaints about the younger generation. or criticisms. There's things that complain about

and those things to criticize them about. But when they turn around... I just want them to pick agenda. Just one. Yeah, they do. I don't know which one it is. They do.

And then tomorrow it's different. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. It's great. But when they turn around and they go, you know what? We've been screwed. You go,

you can't really argue against that, can you? No. No. And it's because the people in the political class have come from a... Not all.

I mean, this is, you know, but a large proportion of them have come from a place where they've never had to struggle. They've never had to work out, how can I get enough money to do this? I'm not saying they're all wealthy or anything like that, but most of them would have come from families that managed okay. James, well, it's been great to chat to you. Thank you for giving us a time. We're going to ask you some questions from our supporters in a second. But before, you said it's what you like, hearing from the people, what you're going to hear from the people. Yeah, you broke character there, mate.

Yeah, exactly. It was, what, the plants, no. I thought it was you were going to ask the questions. No, no, we are going to ask the questions that they submitted. And we've asked you some as well. Yeah, but also the last question we ask in this section of the interview is, what's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that you think we should be? Integration. Tell us more.

No, I think we're not. Just integration. know, we are, this country, I've grown up and I've seen it change dramatically. And I've seen it go from, you know, when I was a kid, from people having signs up on houses saying, no, no, well, I won't say the words they could use you. I really couldn't use them now to being integrated. And then I've seen it go back the other way where people have come to this country who've not really wanted to come here and who've tried to start their own clique. Now, British people go abroad to Spain do the same thing. But then they're going there as retirees or holiday.

But to want to change it. And I think that is what we haven't done. We haven't tried to integrate people enough. Yet, one of the most favorite foods in this country, it's a curry, isn't it? I love it. One of my greatest pleasures was going to the curry awards when they had them. them. I just love it. I absolutely love it. And who are the people who put Christmas decorations up before anybody else, your local Indian restaurant? And so some people are trying to integrate,

but there are others who don't want to. And it's our fault. When I say our, I hate the term indigenous, because, you know, what is indigenous were sort of Germans, Scandinavians, French, we're all mixed up. So, you know, I've got friends from all over the world. And people in certain areas find it very difficult to mix with people that don't come from the same background as themselves. And for some reason, that's kicking off again. And we have to try and make it better. You know, if you're born and bred in this country, you could be of any color. It doesn't make any difference.

And the color of your skin shouldn't be any kind of problem at all. And then I get back when I'm feeling very sort of deep and philosophical, I go back to the religion. You know, I'm called a Christian, I've never been to church, although I was mutilated as a baby, had the end of my dick cut off or whatever they call it. And, you know, some people in their religions refuse to move to integrate. And it happens on both sides of those big religions. And I don't know how we get over that. I don't understand how people can believe in what seems to me to be a fairy story.

How people can actually seriously, sensibly believe that there is some character coming back to the planet to decide where we go and what we do later. And if you look right back thousands of years ago when religions were there totally to control. the populations that they were in charge of. And none of us, if we look back at our religions and our countries, and we look back at the Crusades, I would love England to change their flag. Because Crusades were not a great part of history. And I think those two religions are still very much in control in the background. That's a bit deep, isn't it?

I'm now obviously going to be an extreme right winger. But I would just like everybody to get on, enjoy a country. curry, you know, or Chinese or Japan, whatever, food from out, food is a great leveler. Agreed. Oh, dear, that's not good, is it? The reason I'm laughing is Francis. Everybody in the studio is laughing because everyone knows Francis is obsessed with food. So when he said agreed, I was like, this is the perfect moment.

So what did you fancy to eat now? Oh, no. Oh, everything, mate. I love it all. That's why I have to You wouldn't believe it In order to quote Louis CK I work out really hard

To have a body like this Right because I just Love my food So yeah On that happy note We're going to ask you questions From our supporters James, thank you so much for your time

Good, cheers I'd just like to thank Mr. Well for standing up for Israel and Jews in general But the question is Why protect a country And a people that are historically So hated and demonized

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