TRIGGERnometry - The Truth About TRIGGERnometry Part 2

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

Is our society sliding into an authoritarian dystopia? What does the future hold for the West? What will we be talking about on TRIGGERnometry in the not-so-distant future? Part two of a special two-part episode with Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin. We're raising money for Prostate Cancer UK. DONATE here: https://prostatecanceruk.org/get-involved/donate Get TICKETS to TRIGGERnometry Live with Ayishat Akanbi here: https://leicestersquaretheatre.ticketsolve.com/shows/873621622 Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/​​​ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/​​​ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.Get TICKETS to TRIGGERnometry Live with Ayishat Akanbi here: https://leicestersquaretheatre.ticketsolve.com/shows/873621622 Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/​​​ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/​​​ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissin and welcome to this very special part two of our discussion with me and Francis. This time we're going to be talking about the big things that we think are coming up in the next couple of years, the things that we're going to be focusing on, the guests we're going to be targeting and the types of conversations we think are going to be needed. And also why I really don't like Stuart Lee's comedy. And of course, for those of you who are on locals, you submitted a bunch of questions which will be answering and putting up on locals only for those of you who want to check it out. So Francis, without any further ado, mate,

we talked about the past of the show, where we've come from, if people haven't seen that already. I actually think a lot of people would be quite shocked at the journey that we've had so far, and perhaps at some of the lowest lows and where we've come from

and how it was when we started. But we've done a couple of these in the past where we call them trigonometry, destroys trigonometry. And that's just me interviewing you, you interviewing me. And we thought, given that we've just moved on to a new set, we've got a whole new thing going on. It also seems to be a sort of

interesting time because hopefully I think it's fair to say, is it, certainly in the UK at least, that COVID is starting to die down? Are we going to be that optimistic, do you think? Well, look, in the UK, as Singh stands, on whatever day it is, I think it's the 13th of November now. As we're recording it, yeah, as we're recording it, it does look like the threat of COVID is receiving. We're not seeing the numbers of hospitalizations or deaths that we saw last winter or indeed at the first stage of the pandemic. So you would hope so. However, if you look at around the world, Austria has just now gone into a lockdown for unvaccinated people. I think the Dutch are proposing a lockdown or they're about to go into a lockdown. Australia's just shit the bed.

and New Zealand, they've gone absolutely insane. But what I mean, though, is, I mean, it's going to get to a point eventually where the numbers are just so low, you can't really carry on with this, right? I mean, it's going to become endemic. In the UK, people are arguing it already has and possibly in other parts around the world.

The economics of this are also unsustainable, and we'll maybe talk about that in a minute. But I do feel, at least maybe today, tomorrow could be different, But I do feel that my prediction that I made earlier, which is there would be another lockdown this winter, doesn't seem to be true in the UK. It's been true in other countries,

but in the UK, it's not, which suggests to me that the vaccine has worked to reduce the number of people in hospital and the number of people dying to a point where, as a society, you know, Christopher Snowden, who will hopefully get on the show soon, he's just written an article talking about how basically COVID, with people vaccinated at the level that they are now,

COVID is like the flu, which we've just lived with, and we have done for generations. So I think I'm optimistic that other things are going to start to be the thing that everyone cares about, because my concern with COVID, once the initial mass wave of people dying and all of that happening was passed, was that because we're all so obsessed about COVID all the time, There are actually a lot of other issues that are going unnoticed, uncovered, undiscussed. Some of them are a consequence of COVID. Some of the consequence of lockdown. Some of them are just a consequence of where we are as a society.

And those things are going to start popping up. And we can talk about more of that. The number one thing for me is inflation. It's already happening. If you remember at the beginning of COVID, we interviewed Pippa Malmgram and Jim Rickard. And this was what they said. They said inflation is coming. And now it's here.

A lot of people aren't aware of it because the media haven't started covering it. But the reality is, if we go back to 2008, our response to the financial crisis was essentially to empty the medicine cupboard. We threw everything at it. And by everything, I mean, we printed a ton of money. We dropped interest rates to historically unprecedented levels. And they've been there ever since, basically, right? That's not a sustainable thing over the long term. and yet we've been at it for 13 years now.

So add to that, the huge cost of furlough and lockdown and the hit to the economy and all of that, you're going to see prices rising. You already are seeing that in some other things. And partly that's to do with supply chain issues, but partly is to do with the fact that if you have more money chasing fuel goods, you're going to get inflation.

And what that means is people's savings get eroded, et cetera. So I think economics is going to start to come back to the table, which ironically is where the show started. If you think about our first few episodes, that's what we talked about, because that was one of the biggest issues at the time. Yeah, and it was because of Brexit, and we were talking about economics in relation to Brexit.

No, what you're saying is 100% accurate. Plus factoring in, the price of goods are going to rise. Things like petrol. That's already rising. We literally went to the petrol station yesterday, and you were shocked at how much it had risen. Fuel prices are going to rise. So they're talking about people's utility bills increasing by something by 25, if not 50%.

And that's before Greta get her hands on it as well. Yeah, exactly. So these are all going to be up for discussion. I don't think COVID is going to go away. And I'll tell you why. And this is going to make me sound like a conspiracy theorist. COVID is a very powerful tool because it creates fear in people. And once you create fear in people, they become easier to manipulate. They become, that therefore, means they become easier for you to get what you want. The government can get what they want far easier when the populists are afraid and they're scared.

But you're not suggesting they're going to keep COVID running, even when the numbers aren't high, are you? I'm going to say that they're going to use any opportunity they can to try and get vaccine passports in place. Why do you think that? Why do I think that? Why do you think that's what they want? Why do I think that's what they want? Because they want to be able to essentially monitor our whereabouts at all points. I just think that's the way things are. I think data is power. Being able to track your citizens means that you have power. The part of the vaccine passport situation is just another way in order to track people.

And I think they're going to want to bring us in. My partner went to America. And look, this is an example of what is happening. And people, and we need to get to. We need to talk about this because I don't think people really understand. My partner went back, went to New York, where she's from. Everything in New York is Vax Passport, Vax Passport, Vax Passport. You literally can't go in to a coffee shop and grab a coffee without showing a Vax passport. That's where it is, right? Now, she went to a conference as part of her job.

When she got admitting into the conference center, the security guards and the people that are Deswent, or we need to show your vaccination status. She said, okay, here's my card. Right this way, miss, we're also going to need to take your temperature. She said, right, okay. They took her temperature. But at the same time as taking her temperature, they also scanned her face.

And because she's very aware and very up on tech and the issues around tech, she went, hold on a second. I gave you permission to scan my temperature, or to take my temperature. I did not give you permission to scan my face. My worry, and I've got a sneaking suspicion of the government are going to do this, they're going to use it as an opportunity to track us and grab our data. And that can be anything from facial scans right the way through to whatever else is going to happen,

that I'm not technologically o'fay with. And for those of you who are watching this, listening to me going to me, oh, you're a conspiracy theory, bar, bar, smoking too much weed. Guilty of that probably. However, my question to you would be, what's happened to cash? No one's talking about it, but cash has disappeared. For example, you go to Pretta Monge in London, they no longer accept cash. There are many branches of chains right the way through the city of London that no longer upset cash.

Do you don't think that's a good thing? It's just convenient. No, I don't think it's a good thing, because cash is very, very important. cash number one is a way for you not to be tracked. It's a way for the government to have nothing to do with your finances, with your financial transactions. The government saw COVID as an opportunity to get rid of cash, to take cash off the table. Do you remember why they said that we couldn't have cash?

Yeah, it's because you could pass COVID through physical contact. Okay, but that has now been debunked. Well, they said a lot of things that have been debunked, right? Yeah, right. Okay, and give them their due, we didn't know at the time. But cash isn't coming back. I'm telling you that now. Cash is not coming back. Everything will now be on card. They've increased the limit on card to £100 with the tap. So that therefore makes it easier again. It is just another way for them to be able to track us more effectively. Yeah, and I think maybe if you just talk about it from a sort of power grab point of view,

people will think you're being conspiratorial about it. But actually, if you look at it from a government point of view, well, this is a way to help people. It's a way to track people's health status so you can get them the right help. That's how people will be justifying it potentially in their head. So I see what you're saying. It's interesting because I'm not sure they're going to be able to get vaccine passports through in this country. They've already got them through in Scotland and they've already got them through in Wales.

That is very true. So they are going to do everything they possibly can. Everything they possibly can. Right. We were talking about you and I doing gigs in Scotland because we've got a big Scottish audience and we were talking about getting a Scottish guest and talking about everything.

There's not many of them, but they are big. Exactly. You're going to make that joke in Glasgow. I'm going to leave and you can deal with the conference. consequences. But you need Vax passports now in Scotland. So they've got them in Wales, they've got them in Scotland. Why are they not going to try and bring them here? Well, I think two years ago I would have said because we've got a libertarian in power, but I don't think we found that that to be the

case. So you think the fight for civil liberties in terms of the government surveillance, government controlling and tracking your movements, etc. That's going to be one of the big issues that stays on the table. Yeah. The government, under COVID laws, abolish the right to protest. I'm going to say that again, just for people who didn't understand that. They abolish the right to protest.

What do you mean? It meant that you couldn't congregate in past groups of five in order to protest, in order to make your feelings heard. Because of the pandemic. Because of the pandemic. But surely once the pandemic is over,

that will come back, people might say. Right, okay, yeah. But the only reason it came back was because of the outcry of Sarah, about what happened with the Sarah Everard murdered, where there was a women's vigil. Right. If it was anti-lockdown protesters, no one would give a shit.

The only reason people were outraged is because that picture went viral of that police officer kneeling on that woman's back. And as Ella Wheelan made the point, that happens all the time, including to women, but no one gives a shit

as long as they've got the wrong opinions. Exactly. But that was the only reason. And suddenly people woke up and were like, this is disgusting. I'm like, oh yeah, but when it's anti-lockdown, when it's something that you disagree with, then it's fine. Then people are stupid. Then people are selfish and people, you know, all the

epithets that get hold. What people don't seem to realize is we have the right to protest, not for causes I believe in or you believe in, but because it's vital for a democratic society. And what happened over COVID is we became a police state. Which brings us, I think, onto the third issue that is going to be very big in the next couple of years or possibly beyond. And this is something actually to give him his due, Matthew Goodwin predicted on the show a long time ago is the politics of climate change because it's obviously been ramped up in recent weeks and months

but you can see the... I want to be careful because it's something you're not supposed to say about climate change but I don't know what the truth is about that issue. I genuinely don't. I have other concerns related to the environment. I think resource depletion and pollution are very big issues that need to be tackled, one way or another, right?

Without all this hysteria and all this craziness, but they are issues that are big environmental issues. Whether human activity is the main driver of climate change, I'm not a scientist, I can't make a determination either way. Like most people, I make my conclusions about this issue based on what other people I respect say, and what I would say about that is, I keep being told that 99.999% of the scientists agree, blah, blah, blah.

And it is true that a lot of people that I respect agree that climate change is caused by human beings. I also would say that a lot of people, including scientists I know personally, who I respect, are skeptical of that. Fewer, far fewer, but there are some, right? So I genuinely don't know the truth of that issue. But what I do think is if under the guise of dealing with climate change, we focused our resources on creating stable energy supplies from things like

nuclear power, for example, which I don't know why green people don't want to talk about as much. And we dealt with pollution, which is a huge issue. And we dealt with resource depletion, which is a huge issue. That wouldn't be a bad thing. But the focus doesn't seem to be on that. The focus seems to be on this sort of aOC, the world's ending in 12 years sort of hysteria. Now, there's generation of people coming through now, and you see this with the protests that are happening increasingly around the world, they literally believe that. They believe the world is ending in 12 years. Now, imagine if you believed the world was ending in 12 years, you'd be able, you'd not be able to, you'd be willing to take some pretty drastic action.

Clear yourself to a road. Well, quite a lot more. Imagine you genuinely thought, like, my wife and I are about to have our first child, what would I be willing to do if I thought the world is actually ending in 11 years from now as a father, what would you be willing to do? Yeah, quite a lot. Yeah, of course. Right? I mean...

Depends if I've had breakfast. Yeah, exactly. In your case, it does. But do you see what I'm saying? Of course. If you take this point of view literally, and that is one thing I think is complete rubbish, by the way. I don't think the world is ending in 12 years.

I think that's nonsense. But if you do believe that, then you are going to glue yourself to a road. And that's going to be the starting point. I mean, if you indoctrinate people with that level of fear, you talked about fear with COVID, right? What about the world ending in 12 years? I mean, that's going to scare a lot of people,

particularly young people, as already has. I think the politics of climate change or the politics of the environment or whatever green policy, whatever you want to call it, that's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And even you and I have had, arguments about this on Raw. You know, I remember you and I were talking about whether

extinction rebellion or extremists and all of that, right? That is going to be a huge issue going forward, I think, because the political and economic consequences of that are going to be gigantic. To me, the giant flaw in, and look, I'm from your position. The one thing, not the one thing, one of the things that Trigonometry has given me is humility. The realization... what happens when you work with me. Just the greatness. Being in the presence of greatness, man. Exactly. But that's enough about Anton. Right. But it's a realization that I don't know a lot. And when it comes to a subject like climate change, I know nothing. I genuinely don't. I know nothing. I know nothing. I'm not a scientist. I'm not an expert. I haven't followed this

story. I haven't delved deeply into it. I just haven't had the time. But the one thing that I find very worrying is you look at the person, the most prominent figure in this entire movement, and it's Greta Thumburg. And she's an 18-year-old kid who missed the last few years at school and is then put on a platform and lecturing us. She doesn't even have a degree in this. She doesn't have a master. She doesn't have a PhD.

If it was some scientists who'd been studying this for 30 years and had won a award, or it was widely regarded and came out and said, look, here's the data, here's my research, this is what I think, here are the reasons why we're going to look at this over it, then I'd go okay. Well, people would argue that scientists have been doing that and people haven't been listening. And the reason Greta has worked, forget about her as a person, just as a device, as a prop, is that she embodies the panic that people feel about what's coming as a result of climate change. Because I think here's the realities.

Because I'm not convinced that it's happening, but I almost are not convinced that it's not happening. I genuinely don't know due to human activity. Then what people are saying is scary. And it's not scary in the sense of, oh, you know, East London is going to be underwater. It's scary in the sense of if the sea levels do rise significantly around the world, what that means is a lot of people are going to be displaced, which is going to make the migrant crisis of 2015 and recent years and all of that

look like a walk in the park. You're going to get billions of people displaced and moving obviously to the West. So even from that perspective, it's going to cause a lot of problems, war, famine, starvation, etc. So I think the reason Greta works is that she's almost like, it's not a scientist, even the kids get it now, do you know what I mean? And why are you dinosaur not getting with the program? I think that's why her chastising people, I think, is such a big part of their appeal

because it's that sort of even the key. kids get it, why don't you, you old-fashioned, you know, whatever idiot? I think that's why it's working. Okay, I get that's why it's working. I'm just saying it's not credible. Well, people would argue she's standing on the shoulders of scientists who've been talking about this for a long time more sensibly, but they're being ignored. That's why you need the sort of panic attack approach. Right. I don't think that's a way to do things. If I just seeing a movement figure-headed by an 18-year-old girl as inherently ridiculous, as ridiculous. And I don't care if, you know, she's briefed well or whatever else.

She's a kid. She's a young girl. Why is it that she's been put on this platform? And the thing that I find very dis... And look, I'm not attacking... I'm genuinely not attacking Greta. I'm going to... We make a lot of jokes about Greta. I'm going to be honest with you. I feel deeply sorry for her. I feel deeply, deeply sorry for her. Insert jokes, I used to teach. But I used to teach 15-year-olds. They're children.

Nobody should be put in that position. As an adult, really, it's not going to be good for you and it's not going to be healthy. We talked about this in the first part of our conversation when I was talking about my experience of being in a much smaller media storm than she's been in. And I was saying that I'm probably one of the more mentally resilient people on the planet, and yet it's not easy to deal with at all. For her, particularly given that she's

autistic, and I know I have autistic people in my family, I understand them pretty well. It makes life a lot harder, I would imagine, in the situation. Another mental health issues that she's got going on, it's definitely not the kind thing to do for her. No, and she's a child. Well, not anymore. No, not anymore, but at that point... I'm glad I had to specify that, man. It's a good look, with this tash. Yeah. But she's a child. She was a child. She was a child. She was was a child. And at that point when she became this global celebrity, she had no idea what that was going to entail, what that was going to mean for her life, for her future, for the way people saw her. Right from that point, she became a celebrity. Every relationship moving forward

has been fundamentally changed because she's become an icon. And as a result of that, she's not going to know who's going to be her real friends when she gets a partner, that partner. Are they with her because she is, they like her, they love her for who she is? They want a bit of green action. Yeah. Or is it because she's Greta Thumburg?

You, I see it personally as an act of great cruelty because I don't think a 15-year-old has a capacity to consent to what happened to her because they have no way of understanding. Consequences. A, consequences, but B, that level of consequence and that level of fame. I don't think we understand what it must be like to be that famous. No, no, we don't.

We don't. But come back to the climate thing, because, look, the Greta thing is, I agree with you. But it's very, you know, it's tangential to the issue, I think. I think even if Greta wasn't around, it would still be a big, it still be a big issue. So I think that's going to be the. the next big thing. Well, it's not the next big thing. It's one of the next big things. And the problem is that the reason I am very skeptical about it, like I say, I don't not believe. I genuinely, if I didn't, if I didn't think climate change was manmade, I would say so. But I'm not sure

that I can say that. I'm agnostic about it, is the truth. But the problem is, the solutions that are being offered don't make much sense to me. And I'd tell you. tell you why, nuclear energy is statistically speaking, as far as I understand at least. And I say this as someone, my wife grew up next to Chernobyl, she had to be evacuated from that area when it happened. So I understand the potential risks. But statistically speaking, nuclear energy is the safest form of energy that we have. Yeah. Right. And every time you see these drives to, you know, get people to buy electric cars or, like, I bought a diesel car. 10 years ago, whenever it was, because I was told this is the, for long drives or whatever,

it's much more energy efficient. Then it turns out it's not. Now we're being told we should buy electric cars. Well, it turns out electric cars are not energy efficient either. And it turns out that, yeah, you can make electric batteries, but in order to do that, you've got to get a 14 North African kid mining cobalt in the mines. Do you know what I mean? So that the renewable energy that people keep telling us is the next big thing.

It's not reliable at the moment and it's not cost efficient at the moment, right? So I'm just, my concern is I don't know what's true, but what I do know is the suggestions that we're being given are number one not very effective. And number two, that you're talking about doubling people's heating bills? Really? The answer to everything at the moment seems to be that we've got to pay more tax and have fewer freedoms. Yeah. Right? I'm not sure I'm on board with that.

Well, in fact, I'm pretty sure I'm not. Did you not vote for Corbyn? Surprisingly not, mate. So that's why I'm skeptical is that, look, we can have a sensible conversation about climate or resource depletion or pollution, and I think we should. But I'm not sure the answer realistically, even if the answer is to get people to pay more, I just don't know that you're going to be able to achieve that. Yeah. And I always think a lot of the answer is going to come.

from technology, technological progress rather than panic. And that's, like I said, I think there's going to be a big issue. And we're going to have to talk to more people who can explain to us more about it that we don't understand. And in the next few weeks, we'll hopefully get Michael Schellenberger on and Bjorn Lomborg as well, a couple of people who are sort of halfway on these issues. They, I think, we'll see what exactly they say. But I want to be educated on this issue more because I don't understand it very well. Hey, Constantine, do you like Christmas? No. In USSR we cancelled Christmas and we had Lenin Fest instead.

What's that? We celebrated glorious leader and rewrote story of Jesus to make it better. Really? Yes. In our story, three wise men were killed and gifts meant for Jesus redistributed to glorious workers of the Soviet Union. Jesus was put on Gulag for having wrong opinion. As we call it in Russia, Happy ending. Right. Well, if you do want to celebrate the festive season, then there's only one way to do it. Grab yourself a ticket to our final live show of the year at the Leicester Square Theatre on Saturday, December the 11th. Yes, it is discussion with one of our favorite guests, Aisha Akambi,

she is almost as good philosopher as Vladimir Lenin. Yeah, exactly. Our two previous shows sold out completely and this one will as well. Grab your ticket now before it's too late. Click on link below. During interval, there will be special entertainment. I will ride bear with my shirt off. I didn't realize we were going for that demographic, mate. Oh yes, we are. Excellent. And that's the point. The problem is, is that when you look at the climate change debate, to me, it's encased in hyperbole. What have I heard? We've got 50 good harvest left. That's one thing I've heard. I can see why that I've had trouble. Yeah, yeah, that would really upset me. The fact that, you know, that certain parts of the world would be underwater, the other parts will be on fire, that other parts will become uninhabitable, that the forest fire, that the fires in Australia and California are just a starter.

and then what we're going to see is going to be even worse over the coming years. Right. And you're looking at this. And I can't see sensible, rational discussion about it. Well, for starters, in terms of fires and other individual climate events, no legitimate scientists would ever claim to be able to directly correlate an individual fire, which have been happening for millennia, for millions of years. fact, with a specific trend in the climate.

You can't, no credible scientist would claim to be able to prove that sort of causality. And we had this situation the other day with this COP 26 happening. And someone, I think, from a major news organization who said, I'm on the train to Glasgow, there's leaves caused by climate change on the tracks. Right? People are now starting to pretend that everything is to do with climate change. Well, actually, is that really true? Do you know what I mean? And the more this hysteria continues, the harder is going to be to believe. Yeah. Yeah. And look, I'm going to be honest with you, when it's this doomsday's prophecies, I don't want to engage with it.

When it's things, you know, you read an article about how everything's dead, you know, the oceans are empty, there are no more fish. You go, well, what's the point? What's the point? You don't. need to give people a sense of hope, that they can do something about it. I think it's really important that we sit down and actually have a proper discussion about this, actually have a proper discussion instead of what it feels like, which is fearmongering. We will. We will definitely do that. We've got guests coming up and we'll keep exploring that issue. But let's talk about cultural stuff, because so far we've talked about the big chunky things, which was actually one of the reasons we started the show. We wanted to discuss the big serious issues, economics, you know, politics,

all of that sort of thing. Climate, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and climate, you know, it wasn't a big issue at the time, but it has become one. What about culture? What do you see as the cultural issues that I keep coming up? Do you think, do you think they, they went, you know, I say they, the sort of woke left, they went for race, they went. So the way I see it is, they started with with feminism, right? And they tried to alienate men from women and women from men. And it didn't quite work. Yeah. Right. Now you're starting to see a big pushback in America, particularly where this stuff really originated against critical race theory, against teaching white people that they're guilty and teaching black people that they're oppressed. And you're starting to see

some successes in that fight back. Parents going into schools and saying, we won't stand for this. Elections are now being turned on this issue, et cetera. Do you think the race, you're thing is going to die down? Or do you think it's going to run and run? I think, look, I think part of this is again to do with COVID. And I think we descended into insanity in June 2020.

When we saw everything that happened with the murder of George Floyd, all the repercussions, all the demonstrations, that was a form of hysteria brought about by physically locking people in their own homes and then mainlining social media into their eyeballs 24-7.

That was a result of that. I don't think we're going to get to that peak again. I don't think we're going to see that level of hysteria. But I think it's going to carry on. I think it's going to carry on because...

But do you not think it's just got too ridiculous now? Like, they're literally calling black people white supremacists now. You don't think that at some point that they're just going to become so discredited

that no one listening. to them anymore. Because I see this, I see people talking about this now popping up on CNN. That idiot Brian Stelton now is actually having reasonable conversations about this. Bill Ma, who I've always respected anyway, but he's now saying, look, if CRT is about telling black people they're not going to make it and white people that they're evil, I'm out. People are becoming more emboldened than speaking out against it as the craziness becomes more aggressive. Okay. Am I just being too hopeful and optimistic. Maybe you are being too hopeful and too optimistic, but then you look at things the Labour Party, and you saw that clip where he was saying, you know, there's too many white

men speaking. Yeah. I think this is already endemic in the culture. The seats have already been sung. Right. But isn't that, but do you not think that because it's that ridiculous, people are going to turn off it? Because, look, we talked about this off-camera, and I actually think this is a good point to bring up the Labor Party. You know, the only way the Labor Party becomes relevant again is if they start addressing real issues, right? Real issues being the housing crisis, inequality. These are the things that people in this country actually care about. But they don't want to be relevant. They want to be right. We always say this. We all have this discussion. They don't care. They don't care about being relevant. They just care about it. As was the case in

in the mid-90s. And then Blair comes along and Brown comes along and Mandelso comes along and they transform the party. They take it towards the centre and they say, look, let's stop upsetting about how we divide the pie and how evil the Tories are and actually talk about growing the pie. Yeah, but there wasn't social media then. Social media has played a huge factor. These people have got enormous sway and power. There are people on the momentum left who have got hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter who can create a Twitter storm. But you don't think loss after loss after loss after loss after loss in elections is going to get them to change their mind. Look at the people when you're in the comedy industry. Yeah, but they're idiots. That's why I'm

in the comedy industry. Yeah, but they were all in the Labor Party. And they're all in that particular side of the Labor Party. But the Labor Party does have a lot of sensible people. The Paul Embrys of the world, right? A lot of people have left the Labor Party who are sensible Constantine. A friend of ours, you know, who is Tom Buick, who I do, who I know very well, who is a former, he former advisor, educational advisor to the Gordon Brown government. He resigned from Labor because of Brexit. There's a lot of very sensible, very sane people who have left the Labour Party. You go, okay, look, Paul Embry, name me three other people who you think are sensible in labour.

I suspect there are more people who are sensible and labour. The problem is they're not prominent. Yeah. That's why I don't know their names. Yes. And we say, all right, the Labour Party are going to be sensible. Well, well, let's go back to cervix gate. Should women be allowed to, should you should be able to say that women have a cervix?

Kirstama behaved like he'd just seen a cervix in front of him. He just, right in front. of him in glorious technical. He didn't know what to say. David Lammy said something ridiculous, like maybe you can grow your own. Something along those lines. We might be able to... We're going to need to fact check that. I'm not sure that's what he said exactly. Yeah, but he's maybe something along those lines. I can't remember. I just remember it was equally demented. Yeah. And look... But to be fair, so did Boris. Yeah. Right. No, Boris didn't. Boris dealt with it. He didn't... You forget.

We have a go at Boris all the time. We don't actually acknowledge how skillful Boris can be. And Boris dealt with that beautifully. He just went, look, I believe it's important that we treat everyone with kindness and respect. Do you remember that? Yeah. You know, and, you know, there is biological states, but there's also gender. And every time kindness and respect.

What a cunt. Right. But he dealt with it brilliantly. Yeah, well, for a politician. Yeah, for a politician. Didn't answer the question. Right. He didn't answer the question.

And made everyone feel like he agreed with them. Yes, exactly. Right. But Labor can't either, the head of the Labour Party can't even say that women have a cervix. So how are you going to appeal to women, mate? David Lammy. It's a question I've been trying to work up for a long time. Unsuccessfully.

David Lammy. Again, there's people who have very strong opinions of David Lammy. He's a very intelligent man. He's Harvard educated. He's lost his mind on this as well. So that being the case, when are they going to win? But that's my point. They're not going to win for a very long time.

And I imagine the process of losing over and over and over produces a desire to change things. That's what happened to Labor in the early 90s. The party had been banging on about the same outdated shit that the public didn't care about. They lost economic credibility. They weren't respected. and they hadn't been elected for ages. And eventually, someone comes along who believes in the key stuff. And look, we should talk about inequality and the economic situation.

Before we go that, and we will talk about that, I'm with Brett Weinstein on this. I think the Labour Party's done. Did he say that? No, but he said our institutions. And I think the Labour Party is an institution that is no longer fit for purpose, that has completely discredited,

Welcome into the Van Party State. And as a result, it's finished. Interesting. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I think they, with the right people in charge, where are they? Well, where was Tony Blair in 1987?

He was a lawyer. No one had heard of him, right? But he came in. And look, it sounds like I'm praising Tony Blair, this bloody shot. I'm not a fan in terms of his Iraq policy, his immigration. immigration policy and whatever, but you can't deny, transform the Labor Party was one of the most successful in terms of electorally British prime ministers in modern history, right? So people like that come along every now and again and they can change the direction of the party. But the way

that you do that, though, Francis, is you start talking to the majority. And what do the majority of people in this country care about? They care about economic inequality. And increasingly, We talked about this as well, housing, particularly people of our generation. And our generation, I remind you, is getting older, right? We are now middle-aged. No, we're not. We're not. Explain.

Explain. Well, I may be 39, but I identify as 29. Okay. So you're old. I'm getting there as well. So my point is, if people of our generation, which they are, are unable to buy property, right? That's going to be a huge issue politically and electorally.

And the party that addresses that, I think, will have the support of the people who are there at that time for generations. For generations. That would be whoever can sort that issue out is going to have incredible, widespread support, particularly if they're a Tory, particularly if they're a Tory, because what that will then happen is they will retain the support of the Shire Tories, even though those people don't necessarily want the housing problem to be fixed, and in many ways it's not in their interest to have the housing problem fixed.

But they'll still vote Tory. And then you get ordinary people, working class people, on board with that, because they're the ones that are suffering the most. It's not the kids of the lawyer and the banker who are not able to get on the housing market, right? Yeah, yeah. It's ordinary people. But look, we've spoken about this in many a car drive. It's not in their interest to sort this.

I think it's coming to the point. You made this point, Charlotte Gill. Charlotte Gill, who's the deputy editor of conservative woman, Tom Harwood, who's clearly a right-leaning journalist on G.B. News. All I see when I look on Twitter is those two complaining about not being able to get on the housing ladder and renting forever. Right. Now, if people like that are struggling to get on the housing ladder, what does that mean for someone who, you know, who's got a quote-unquote normal job? Someone who works in a supermarket.

Someone who drives a van and is an electrician, whatever. These are very necessary, important jobs. Yeah. And they are much more representative of the country than Tom Harvard or Charlotte Gill. Right. But I think we forget, man. This is one of the things that has happened in the last 50, 60, 70 years. You used to be able to feed a family of four on one person's income.

And when I mean feed, I mean have a house. In America, this was very much the case. Think about the movies from the 50s. Yeah. Mom was at home. Yeah, how it should be. You know what I mean. Right? One income feeds a family of four. And that person wasn't a CEO of a bank. That person

worked in a factory. They worked in an office. They weren't necessarily creating a multi-million dollar business. They were just a normal person who went to work, did their duty by their family, by their country, whatever, and they were fine. Is that possible now? Can you feed a family of four on one income? No. In a normal job? So for all the progress, we keep talking about how we've made progress on this and progress on that and we no longer mean to gays or whatever, which is great. But the reality is economically, society's regressed. Now, you can buy better things and quality of life has improved, but people have now found themselves in a wage trap, right, where housing prices keep going up massively, wages are not,

and more and more members of your family have to work to keep you fed, right? That is a problem. Yeah. That is a problem. It's a problem societally because what happens is, you know, Peter Hitchens talked about it on a life show and no one, no one's supposed to talk about this because we're all supposed to pretend that the emancipation of women has been consequence free, right? And it's been a great thing that people can do what they want with their life. No one wants women back in the kitchen or any of that. But at the same time, if you are, if you're telling me that all women want to be a wage slave in an office rather than raising their own children at home, well, you're lying.

Yeah. And what happens when children aren't being raised by their parents? They're being shipped off to school at days of three, which is what's happening now. I know people who've got kids who are two and three years old. Very few of them are being cared by their own parents. No, they get sent to nursery at school. Schools now have nursery, primary schools.

Right. Do you honest, does anyone, is anyone honestly trying to tell me that a generation of children who've basically barely seen their parents and are in some kind of mass indoctrination system by the age of three. Are you telling me that that is better for society? No. So we've regressed massively as a result of the economic situation in which more and more people, they're not given the option.

See, the emancipation thing was about options. It was about giving people freedom. But what we've ended up instead is people not having the freedom, people being forced into a particular pipeline by the economic circumstances where you work or die. Both parents have to work or your quality of life is going to be that much worse. It's just, it's not a decision most people can afford to make. I mean, look, this is actually one of the benefits of COVID in that the reality is now, for a lot of jobs, you don't and shouldn't have to be in the office five days a week.

Most people, you could argue, one day a week, they're going to. to the office, they do what they need to do, or maybe too. Which means they don't have to live in cities. Which means they can live outside of London. Which means that the property is more affordable. Which means they will have a better quality of life because they'll be around their kids for longer. But the reality is as well, this is a problem, and this is again why I have a problem with the left pointing the finger at the right. Because Blair didn't solve this problem. It started with Thatcher. Then it was where it handed on to... major. He didn't solve it. Then it went to Blair. He didn't do anything about it, even though he's

on the left, and you'd think he'd be building council houses, because that's a classic. Or just houses. But particularly council houses, because we never replenish the stock once Thatcher built them. Then we move... Thatcher sold them off. Yeah, sorry, once Thatcher sold them off. Thank you. And then now, 11 years of a Tory government who've done nothing about it whatsoever. So this has been a problem for... Since I was born. And you were not... now approaching crisis point. We're not even approaching. We're now at crisis point. And what do we do? And what do we do about it? Because the reality is that is having an impact right the way through our culture. Like we always say about millennials, oh, bar, blah, blah, they don't grow up. They don't,

they're always moaning. They're always behaving like children. They're in their 30s. Well, of course, they're behaving like children. They live like teenagers. They live like 22-year-olds. In a flat share, to a flat share. Of course you're going to behave like a teenager. Because what incentive have you got to settle down? What incentives have you got to have kids if you can't buy a place? How can you be conservative? You've got nothing to conserve. It's ridiculous. So I have a great deal of sympathy for our generation. And people looking down and saying, oh, you know, you're feckless and you're behaving in a manner that is immature. But there's no point in being mature because you can't live a mature life. So what's the point?

I mean, my only challenge to that would be that it is possible to get through that, but it's just that much harder. It's that much harder. For a lot of people, it's impossible to buy a place. It's that much harder, I would argue. But yeah, yeah. I always think whatever the circumstances, you've got to strive to overcome them, but I agree with you, it's that much harder for people. You know, and the people, practically everyone that I know, and again, this is anecdotal information, who has bought a place, has done it because of inherited money. What, you know me?

Yeah, one. But everybody else. You're just hanging around with loser comedians. Of course that's the case. No, the people that all that I know, the people who have bought places, is because their parents or their grandparents get money.

And look, they've got good jobs, and that means that they can afford it. But granny died. They got 70 grand. That means they put a deposit down on a flat. And I'm not, I am bitter. I'm going to retract that. But society can't function like that.

Because you have got people from the lowest economic strata who want to improve, who want to move their life forward, and they're seeing this entire section of society just closed off to them. It's true. Look, we've talked about it a lot, and I'm sure we'll keep talking about it. I think we should cover one more topic before we go to our locals' questions, which is comedy. What do you think is the future of comedy?

Because I've taken a step back from it from the moment. I'm working on my book, which will be out middle of next year. that's been my project that I've been doing in addition to trigonometry, which takes up an extraordinary amount of our time, even though we keep growing the team, and every time we can afford to, we hire a new person to help us do a bit more of the show. Whereas you've been focusing on getting ready for your tour

and getting your show ready. So I imagine you have some thoughts on comedy and where it might be going. Right. As far, comedy, it's the best of times and the worst of times. It's the best of times because look around. Look what we've done. Look what we've created. We were two comedians with no backing, no finances, nothing.

Yeah, but we had to give up everything. Right. We had to risk everything to do this. Yeah. And for every one of us, there will be 20 people who failed. Yeah. Who didn't make it, who are not successful. And by the way, when we say successful, I still think of us as a tiny YouTube channel.

are a tiny YouTube channel. Compared to where we're going. Yeah. Right. But for every one of us, there's 20 or maybe 200 or maybe 2,000 people who had an idea who gave it a bit of a shot and never quite made it. Yeah, but that's comedy. How many people start on the open mic? True. True. True. Have a, have a dream, whatever else. And... Yeah, we're just better. Anyway, carry on. And it didn't succeed. So if you have a dream, if you've got talent, if you've got drive, if you have got discipline. Good looks. Yeah. exactly, great tashes. Then there's a chance you can do something. There's a chance that you can grow following. There's a chance that actually you'll be able to carve out a niche for yourself. So there is

that. The problem is in the mainstream. The problem is when it comes to political comedy, for example, where I was talking with this guy in comedy, this producer or commissioner a couple of days ago. TV commissioner. TV commissioner. That's the one. And we were talking about Stuart Lee. And I said, look, I think Stuart Lee's great. He's overrated, but that's another conversation for another time.

I don't agree with you, actually. He wouldn't have made it in America, mate. Sorry. Yeah, but that's because British people are just... No, that's because American comedians are better. It's a high standard fact. No, no. See, this is not true, Francis.

You don't like Stuart Lee because he's a snob. And I like Stuart Lee because he's a snob. That's the difference. Stuart Lee is... He pioneering. a different style of comedy. That is something very special. You can't, you just can't compare him to Bill Bow. It's a different way of doing comedy. It's just a different thing for a different audience and done in a very different way. He is a genius at comedy that you just happen to be

triggered by it, which is fine. You're entitled to that view because he is a snob. He's an intellectual snob. And there's an audience of people there for that. That's all. No, I, I, I, I, I, I, Anyway, I disagree. He's overrated. But anyways, thank you, right. Okay, so you've got Stuart Lee, and I was talking to him. And I was saying, look, comedy's biased. He went, give me an example. I went, okay, Stuart Lee, you've got a Stuart Lee of the left. Why is there not a Stuart Lee of the right? And he went, well, why should we have a Stuart Lee of the right? And I went, well, it's called balance, isn't it? Yeah. And he went, all right, but what would Stuart the Lee of the right talk about? I said, well, they'd criticize Greta Thumburg, number one. Because Greta Thumburg,

Why has she been given the platform that she has? She's not a climate scientist. She doesn't have all the arguments I spoke about before. He went, well, that's got nothing to do with politics. That's social. And I went, well, it's got to do with politics because what she wants to implement in this country and around the world is going to affect us

and it's going to affect our policy. He went, oh, what else? I went, well, BLM. Why is it that everybody went nuts over an organisation that has the words in it abolished capitalism, defund the police. Why did no one investigate or challenge these ideas? And he went, well, look, you've got, I think, you know,

I agree with the fact that Black Lives Matter. I'm like, mate, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Black Lives Matter. You know? Yeah. I agree with that. I think 99.9% of people do. And if you don't, you're a desperately unpleasant human being. Right. Nobody, very few people are disagree with the...

Yeah, but it's a deliberate conflation. Yeah, yeah, it's a deliberate conflation anyway. And then he got very awkward, shook my hand and walked off. Yeah, and these are the people who run comedy. These are the people who run comedy. These are the tastemakers. These are the people. So what you have is you have sacred cows in comedy that you were never going to be able to touch.

You are never going to be able to go for. You're never going to be able to take the piss out of. But... But... But... Here's where I push back. Comedy Unleashed. Yeah.

Are talking to TV. Yeah. They did a pilot. So at least TV are interested in exploring that. People are talking to us about doing a satirical show on TV. Right. Now, whether that's going to happen or not, we don't know. But to me, the fact that those conversations, they were not being had three years ago.

Yeah. Right? They're being had now. Maybe a few years from now. See, this is the problem. It's your optimism. It lets you down time and time again. it does.

Mate, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Right? The pendulum swings, don't you think? No, no. What do you mean nah? No. No. I've been right about everything.

No, you haven't. Yes, I have. And you were going to me, there's going to be a lot of lockdown. I go, no, they're not. It's going to be, they're going to do vaccine postports. That's going to happen. Listen to Foster Damasus. Listen.

Nate, with that, actually, more non-stradamus. Yeah. But. No, I don't think so. I don't think so because you are going to have to change the people for that to happen. Yeah, but all it takes, though, Francis, look, if you and I, and it's going to sound, you know, big-headed and whatever, but genuinely, if you and I, remember the work that was that we did and we'll be doing more of it, if we did that with a TV budget and a TV project, behind us. That would be the most popular comedy show in this country. You really think they're going to let us go on TV and take the piss out of BLM.

Is that really what you're saying? Maybe for one show. You really think they're going to let two middle-aged in your words, straight white males come on and take the piss out. You can take a bumming and I'll, you know, I'll brown up a bit more and then we can be diverse. I look, God bless you in your optimism and your immigrant optimism and we can change things. And it's not going to happen. And when I went and I talked to these people, it just isn't, it's something like the BBC. I love the BBC. I do. I do. And I take no joy in seeing it being criticized. I take no joy in seeing what it's becoming. I take no joy in any of it.

but it can't change because the people in there are all the same type of people with the same, and they're not bad people, they're not bad people. But they should be killed. But they should be killed. No, they're not bad people. But they just think and view the world in a particular way. Well, fuck it then. We'll do it ourselves.

But this is a point. And this is why this exists and this is why we've achieved this. We'll just do it ourselves. Once we have enough resources to allocate enough time to doing the sat satirical stuff, we'll start doing that. Yeah. If they don't want to do it on TV, fuck them, we'll make it ourselves.

And we'll make it bigger. And then they're going to come cap and hand asking us to come on their show and we'll tell them to go fuck themselves. And you look at how, what has happened to all the satirical shows? Look at Charlie Brooker. Well, it got shit and then it ended.

Yeah. As far as I know. It used to be incredible. Yeah. If we made the show, that's what it would be like. Yeah, of course. But better. But, you know, yeah.

But we're both huge fans of Charlie Brooker. He's early work. Yeah. It's early work. Brilliant. What it became now. Yeah. It's unwatchable. So there we go. There we go. I don't think it's going to change because the people in it view certain issues in a particular way. And I'll tell you why it's because we've conflated politics with morality.

It's not about arguments anymore. It's not about debate. It's about morality. See, I don't think it's that, although that is a factor. It's a more complicated thing because politics. Politics is always partly about morality, in my opinion. I think we've conflated comedy with politics. That's a real reason comedy is struggling. We've conflated comedy with politics. Everything now is political.

You can't just make fun of politicians without people assuming that you are on the side of the other people. When do that happen? But what does that mean, though, to the side of the other people? Let's dig into that. It means that you are an activist as opposed to a comedian. And let's go deeper. What does that mean?

If you're an activist for the other side. No, I know where you're trying to take this, but I don't agree. I don't think, I don't think, I think the argument about conflating politics and morality is inaccurate because politics is always about morality. Politics is always about what you think is the right thing to do. Do you look after these people or those people?

Do you maximize freedom or do you maximize safety? Do you give people the freedom to succeed or fail on their merit? Or do you take from the successful in order to look after the unsuccessful? That's politics. And where you place that marker in your own mind is about morality. So I don't think, you know, I know what you mean, but I don't think morality and politics have ever been disconnected. But, okay, I take your point and I agree with it.

But it has mushroomed to such an extent now. It has mushroomed to such an extent. Whereas before, you could see people of, you know, left and right, sitting down having a discussion. I think it's just because we think in black and white now. We don't see the shades of gray anymore. Agreed. It's either right or wrong.

It's either good or it's evil. Right, exactly. It's like what we were talking about with the climate change thing. Yeah. To say what we said, which is, I don't know, is unacceptable now. Yeah. I don't know. If you went on TV and said, look, I'm a comedian.

I don't know about climate change. I hear some people who I respect saying that it's happening. I hear some people who I respect saying, not that it's happening, it's happening because of human activity and other people saying it's happening, not because of human activity. So I don't know. I don't know what to think.

I recycle my, I wash out my tuna tins and whatever and recycle, you know, and I try not to, you know, keep my car running when I'm not using it. That's what I do, right? If you said that, they'd be like, yeah,

but what about, they would make it about you having to have an opinion. Yeah. And that's because everything is black and white now. everything. You can't, you can't be unsure of anything. You have to, you have to commit to a particular ideological position. And I think that's where a lot of this stuff's come from, where it's like, you're either fully on the right or you're fully on the left. Which is ironic, because the people mostly who are pushing this way of thinking are people who believe that you can be non-binary.

Yeah. You can be non-binary in every way, except politically. Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't. You know, people want you and I to be on the right or on the left. And increasingly, this is the thing that worries me, is people on the right are now buying into this thing as well. Because, you know, the reason that in many ways I think we get on better with people on the right, even though you and I are not on the right,

is that they have at least preserved, for the most part, that tolerance. They are tolerant of people with different opinions, even if they don't agree with them, for the most part. But you're now seeing that, particularly with COVID, but I think more generally, this sort of like, you know, this idiot that wrote an article after our David Starkey interview saying how, oh, you know, David Starkey's not one of us because he thinks mandatory vaccinations should be done. Well, you and I couldn't be more vehemently opposed to mandatory vaccinations. It didn't stop us from having a really good conversation with David. We pushed back on him.

He said he wanted to agree to disagree and that's what happened. But a lot of people now are developing this black and white thinking on the right too. And that's a problem. Yeah. It's a huge problem. But then filter it back into comedy. You need people who are balanced. Yeah. Well, in order to produce the content, which makes me, which makes me think that it's never going to happen. And look, we're going to have conversations. And look, they've done a pilot done. But until I see it in front of my eyes, until I see it done, I won't believe it. But it's a no brain of Francis. There's got to be a person with balls. And they can be a woman. because it's 2021. There's got to be a person with balls

somewhere in a TV studio watching this conversation right now because the people in that world watch our show. Yeah. Right? And they've got to know that what I'm saying is true because it is. If people like us and other people,

Andrew Doyle that we would get involved and Jeff and others, made a comedy show that punched in every direction, it would be the most successful comedy show in this country today. It would be. Of course it would be. Because you're getting people,

you know, the Leo's, the Jeff's, the me, the you, the Andrews, who we've had to prove our ability to do things in spite of the whole system being against us. Yeah. Right. So we know what we're doing. And we've, you know, we've got, the pudding is there. The proof of the pudding is there. So they, it's a, it's a, it's a slam dunk. It's a guaranteed win if you've just got the balls to do it. What about the leader of the Labour Party? One of the Labor Party came out and went, I respect trans people, but biological sex is real.

And let's stop behaving like children. That's what Stama should have done. Yeah. You should have done that. I said this. I said this the day he became leader. He needs to come out and pick a fight. I agree with you.

And then you can transform the partner. I am not disagreeing with you. My point is he hasn't done it. Yes, because he's a coward. Right. He hasn't done it and they're not going to do it. It doesn't matter. That's the path to success.

The fact that you're right doesn't make it any more likely to happen. I don't agree with that, though. I think the fact that I'm right means that there will eventually come somebody who understands that and it doesn't care about the consequences. The short-term consequences. Someone who's prepared to take a risk and just take the flag for a few weeks, and then everyone's going to shut the fuck up about it. See, this is the thing with cancel culturemen.

They only come after people who are vulnerable. Cancel people are just playground bullies. They only go after people who are vulnerable. That's why they've never tried to cancel us. They have. Some comedians tried to get our agent to drop us. They didn't even do it properly. They talked about it.

It never happened, right? Because they know it's not going to happen. They know it's not going to happen. They can't cancel our YouTube channel. They can't cancel the show. They can't cancel my Twitter. They can't cancel you. They can't.

So they don't go after us anymore. They do go after us. to us. Our Instagram has been absolutely strangled because of complaints people have made. And as a result of that, we've got a 90-day ban on our Instagram. We have now got warnings our Instagram with people try and follow us saying, do you really want to follow this account? And we've taken views that used to be 5,000 on clips, now get 150. So there's actually no more point for us to be on Instagram, really. Which is what I said from the beginning. Yeah. Yeah.

So just because it's not avert doesn't mean that it's not happening. What I mean is if a TV company made a genuinely balanced satirical show like the one that you and I would make. Because we spend more time attacking the Tories on Raw than we do anyone else. Fucking hate Johnson. Yeah. So if they just said, you know, if they just came out and went, I hear that some people on Twitter upset, we have this channel believe in creating different types of content.

we fully back this project and we don't care. There's got to be one person out there like that. Just the person who's made enough money, it doesn't care anymore. It's got to be one person like that. There's got to be. Are you out there? Because if you have, I haven't fucking met you.

Look, I love your optimism. Great. Good for you. But look, it's not optimism. I'm just saying that's a possibility. The reality is, if that doesn't happen, in a very cynical way, That's good for us. Oh yeah, it's brilliant.

We'll make our own shit. We'll make our own work that was and we'll put more resources into it and we'll keep making it and it's going to get huge. And that's great. Yeah. If that's how they want to play it, fine. Fine. We're going to find a way one way or another.

The reality is as well, TV is dead. TV is dead. The viewing figures are through the floor. I've heard on the Great Vine. I don't know how true it is that this is the last series of live at the Apollo because nobody... Really? That's what I've heard.

Wow. No, that may not be true, but that's what I've heard on the great fun. I wouldn't surprise you, would it? Yeah. The viewing figures are through the floor. Nobody watches it. The quality has gone down. We all know that it has.

Nobody's allowed to say it, but it's true. If you look back at the, you know, Halcyon days of McIntyre, of Mickey Flanagan, of all these people coming on and, you know, and doing brilliant comedy and packing out arenas. As a result, Kevin Bridges, doing Michael McIntyre's roadshow, smashing it up. Simon Evans, former guest of ours. to where we are now.

People watch us and go, well, this isn't funny. That's where we are. Well, on that happy note, Francis, we'll do some locals questions. But in the meantime, guys, thank you so much for joining us for this conversation today. Head on over to locals to see the answers to the questions you've been asking over there. And also remember, we're doing Movember for Prostate Cancer UK. The link should be available somewhere in the video to support this great cause. Thank you for watching and we'll see you very soon.

Take care and see you soon, guys. We hope you've enjoyed this incredible interview. Remember to subscribe and hit the bell button so that you never miss another fantastic episode. And if you believe that the work we do here at Trigonometry is important, support us by joining our locals community using the link below.