TRIGGERnometry - Tom Stade: "I've Had Enough of the Joke Police!"

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Listen to Rob Moore’s no.1 ranked ‘Disruptors’ podcast with the world’s most disruptive guests & billionaires. Plus get access to a digital financial toolkit that will help you save money - Go now to: bit.ly/robtoolkit SPONSORED BY: Express VPN. Get 3 months extra free when you sign up for a 12 month contract at: www.expressvpn.com Tom Stade is a Canadian-born comedian, now living in the UK. Check Tom out on tour at: https://www.tomstade.com/live-dates/ Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Music by: Xentric | [e-mail] | https://www.xentricapc.com/ | Channel ID: UCo_8zzSxKeL3arKWVuP8wdQ Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/​​​ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/​​​ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A friend of mine, a mutual friend of us, actually, another comic, went to see your show in Edinburgh. And he messaged me after going, I think Tom's had enough of this shit. And I don't know what shit he was talking about exactly, but I was curious. I threw out every rule in the book is what I've done. I got tired of listening to people going, well, you can't punch up and you can't punch down. And, you know, that's a hack premise or that's a dick joke or whatever. You're living in a world where there's now rules of comedy, which comedy was there to break all those rules.

Do you know what I mean? And we've just gotten so far to what you can say and what you can't say. We've been dying out on caviar every fucking day lately. I want a McDonald's burger. You know what I mean? I'm getting tired of the snails, man. It's just a fucking comedy show. You know what I mean?

Like, fucking, if you don't like them, don't go and fucking see them. How about that, Matt? But you're right. Now, you don't like a comedy show. Oh, my God. Here comes a Facebook post. Here comes a block. I got to block you now.

I got to do all of that sort of stuff. Trip advisor. Trip advisor. Four star, three and a half star comedian. I've just gone to the point. Well, you know what? I'm going to take everything everybody's scared of saying. And I'm going to chuck it right in the face.

Hey Francis, do you like entrepreneurs? Not really. What do you mean? What do you think we do at trigonometry? Annoyed people on the internet cause meltdowns on Twitter and destroy people with logic and facts. Right, stop stealing my catchphrases. It's facts and logic. I'm just saying, being an entrepreneur is against my culture. Why would I work hard when I could just lie on the beach in a sombrero shouting, eh, aye, hey. Well, for those of you who aren't Venezuelan, you need to check out Rob Moore, the disruptive entrepreneur.

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Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kissin. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our brilliant guest today is one of our favorite comedians. here in the UK, Tom Stade, welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you, Constantine. Thank you, Francis. I feel like I'm at a job,

what qualifies you to be here? No, man, it's really great to have you on. We obviously know exactly who you are, but there'll be a lot of people in our audience who also know who you are and a lot who don't. So who are you? What's been your journey through life? How are you here, Tom?

Okay, well, we'll start. I'll try and sum it up pretty quick, man. I was a comedian in Canada. Started out in 1989 in a little place called Punch Lines Gas Town, which wasn't there. From there, I worked my way up doing TV shows and all that sort of stuff in Canada, whatever TV shows were there, whatever kind of show business was there. And I think in the late 90s after we went to L.A. and did a whole bunch of stuff there, I was invited to come to the UK with a friend. And I did a couple of guest spots in the UK.

And believe me, the UK was not on my radar at that time. And then I came home. And I remember, when was it? 11, whenever 9-11 was. Because I came home and I got, after doing the jonglers, I don't know, it used to be a big chain. But, I mean, what a great chain it was. It was. Like, it was awesome. And then, yeah, and then I came back to Canada and I got this email with just boom, boom, Boom, boom, boom, boom, lots of work.

And the lucky part was, is my lovely lady, Trudy. Turns out she was a British citizen, which I did not know at the time, just so everybody can understand. I did not marry into this country, but she goes, Tom, you know, my parents are English, and I was like, oh, God, I thought they were Newfy. and so she said well why don't we go over for a year let's just go over for a year and see what happens

and then next thing you know we got over here uh all of a sudden the tv shows came the comedy store i think was the very first one and so we did about four or five of those and then we did oh god i can't remember but uh the guy that represented Bruce Forsy, I think, if Ian somebody, he had a bunch of shows. And then we did live at the Apollo, probably most for your viewers. We did a show, no, not live at the Apollo.

Michael McIntyre's Roadshow. And we did the very first one of those. And I did a joke called the Meat Van on there. And that just went bulletin. like I've never seen it was like writing a hit song and then we did and then you did the Apollo that went really well and then we did the Apollo and then and then a couple little things after that and yeah and then pretty much I'm now just here as a fixture because I've decided to make this place my home That was that.

Yeah. That's awesome. And you're 15 specials deep. Now, there's stuff we want to ask you about, which we'll get into later. But actually, before we started, you were talking about Live of De Apollo, and you were saying, doing Live of the Apollo in those days, just change your life, right? Yeah. That's how significant it was.

Yeah. When before, because I don't think all of this stuff was happening when we did. And I always think, I always think, like, I'm always that like, I'm always that. last guy through the Stargate before it closes. You know what I mean? And so I hopped through the Stargate and like that was a time

where you could probably it would be the equivalent of going viral back then. Do you know what I mean? Because the Apollo was the only show that was out there and Michael McIntyre was just on his ride up.

And now the Apollo is is pretty much, you know, I don't know this for sure, okay? Everything that I say is only an opinion, but the Apollo now is more of a way, it's more of a thing on your resume than it is a pinnacle. You know, like so. And the, and I think it's one of these closed clubs, you know, I remember there's a guy named Anthony, who's the producer there,

and I saw him at the loft bar one time, and it was very funny to ask them to go, so when am I getting on the Apollo again? And he said, well, I don't think that's going to happen. We got a lot of box-ticket exercises going on there. And I was really shocked to hear that. Do you know what I mean? Because, you know, I'm all for diversity, but diversity,

also has to have that talent to it. You know what I mean? And I think, and this is, there's no criticism to anyone. But again, if we're talking about old days till now, do you know, I feel that, you know, they always said it took 10 years to become a comedian. But thanks to the internet and all of that sort of stuff, that time scale has now gone down to, like,

I see people on the Apollo that have been there. There's a kid that I know that I'm not going to mention. It's only been doing it three years, and he's going to be on the next episode, which is fantastic. You know what I mean? I've got no malice or anything like that, but I'm like, wow, it just shows you how the times have changed, how the industry has changed.

I mean, you hear of people going on shows because they have more followers, than the TV show would have viewers. I don't know if that's true, but it rings true to me. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, to say to be on the Apollo now isn't the same. I think a Netflix special is probably would be the equivalent of what the Apollo used to be, you know, because also you're living in a world where you can go global just like that, you know,

I mean, and that is unheard of man for me. That is like one of those things that all of a sudden, you know, like you got Danny Sloss, who's, who is just this kid. All of a sudden, one Netflix special, he's selling out in Texas for crying out loud. So how great is that? You know what I mean? So there's opportunity to be had there. And, you know, you got to kind of roll with these changes.

You can't, you know, you can't. criticize, you can try and understand them, but you can't criticize them because they're actually happening. And if you can't move with those times, then, you know, you're like a jongler's comedian who's now not a comedian because he could only do the jongler's model. It's interesting what you're talking about, because to me, I'm going to criticize it because comedians hate me, and I hate them. But for me, like that kid, three, look, you can't blame the kid for taking the opportunity. Let's get that straight.

If any one of us had had been offered that, we would have gone for it. Best of luck to whoever that kid is. But you're not telling me, after three years of gigging, he has got the chops to play that room. Well, there's the double-edged sword, Francis. I mean, okay, we're living in a world where two-minute bit is one. worth more than an hour. Do you know what I mean? So, so this, anybody can stumble on a two-minute awesome bit. Anyone can stumble on a two-minute awesome bit. Anyone can put that on the internet. And all of a sudden, now, once you have that target on your back, there's where the other side

of what you're saying is, is that, oh, this kid is really good. Now, will he be able to, that two minutes, now has to become an hour. Do you know what I mean? So I understand what you're saying completely. I mean, is this kid, whoever he is, a natural? Or did he luck out? And because once you get that exposure, you know, it could be the death of you too, man. You know, that's, I totally see exactly what you're saying.

And I agree with it. But again, that's the world that we're in right now to be able to be able. to at least have that opportunity to fail or die in such a short amount of time. Yeah. And it just seems to me, and again, this is just my perspective, to me, like the people who pick that kid aren't respecting the art form.

Because I would say it takes... He's angry, mate. I don't know why. I've told him to go to therapy. I've done everything for him. It doesn't work. He's going to mention class in a second. Okay.

Tell me what you're saying. But look, to me, they're not respecting the art form because to me it takes at least 10 years to become... Who picked the kid, though? This is the thing. Like, the kid was chosen because we're now in the internet world. It wasn't the kid... The kids just putting out a TikTok video.

The kids just putting out an Instagram video. The kids just taping his show on his iPhone at the monkey barrel. He's doing a bit in his car about eyebrows. Do you know what I mean? And like, so it's the people that are picking them, if you're talking about like industry and that sort of stuff, well, you know, the industry isn't picking TikTok people.

The industry is a very tight, closed business, man. You're either these guys as friends. If you're not friends with Dar O'Brien or one of these guys, you're not going anywhere, man. Do you know what I mean? If you're not friends with Jimmy Carr, you're not going anywhere. You're like, that's how tight this business is. So again, I want to use the double-edged sword.

This kid, whoever's got the two minutes, at least bypasses that circle to be able to try and get in. No, you didn't have that option. So I agree with you. There's a tremendous amount of opportunity right now as well. I don't think Live at the Apollo is the opportunity, by the way, because I know people have done who, again, they were less experienced than perhaps they would have wanted to be. And they got, I don't know, a thousand Twitter followers off the back of it. It's not life-changing anymore.

That's why I try not to talk about it, really, because I don't think it's worth the discussion. What I do find interesting, though, Tom, is a friend of mine, a mutual friend of us, actually, another comic, went to see your show in Edinburgh, which is just finished. And he messaged me after going, I think Tom's had enough of this shit. And I don't know what shit he was talking about exactly, but I was curious. Yeah, I've, I threw out every rule in the book is what I've done. I've just, I got tired of listening to people going, well, you can't punch up and you can't punch down. And, you know, that's a hack premise or that's a dick joke or whatever.

And I was like, you know what? You know, you're now deciding what the masses want. Do you know what I mean? You're saying that we can't talk about this or this subject is off topic or whatever or you're going to get canceled. There's so much just fear about what kind of material you're going to do. You know what I mean?

And I've just gone to the point, well, you know what? I'm going to take everything everybody's scared of saying, and I'm going to chuck it right in their face. And so I just decided, you know, give me a dick joke. I'm going to tell it like Mike Wilmot. I'm going to throw it out there. You want an airplane joke? Here comes an airplane joke.

You want me to talk like Dave Chappelle to tell you like it is. I'll tell you like it is. Do you know what I mean? And I just felt that, you know, instead of trying to, to fit this mold. I just decided, you know what, I'm going to be an all-around comedian and not really listen to my peers anymore because I don't think they know what they're saying. I think they've gotten to a point where they're not themselves anymore.

They're just trying to appease an audience, do you know what I mean? Not even an audience, more of their own peers, you know, because they're so afraid to look stupid or whatever, you know what I mean? And so to me, I've gotten to the point where I will just do any type of material out there to the best of my ability. And I love my strap-on joke. I've got a fucking killer strap-on joke. And I've also got a killer transgender. You know what I mean?

and that's where I'm at right now. I'm just decided, you know, no more peers. If I... Tom, so it to interrupt. I'm just curious. You talk about fear. You talk about having a mold. And these are all things,

points that I would have pointed out in the past. And the reaction always is you're making it up. It's all bullshit. No one's afraid. No one's self-censoring in comedy. No one's not saying. But you, I hear what out of you is that you think people are doing this. and you think they're doing it because they're worried about what other comedians will say?

You think that's what it is. I'm positive, that's what it is, man. To be able to go up on stage and to, you know, I don't know, dude, say you thought of something funny, but you thought, oh, God, you know, what's fucking Jeff Norcott going to say? Or what's this guy going to say? because, you know, you're living, again, if I can go back, you're living in a world where there's now rules of comedy,

which comedy was there to break all those rules. Do you know what I mean? And we've just gotten so far to what you can say and what you can't say. And then once you break out of that and realize, you know, you're there to do a job. And the people that will like you will stay, and the people that don't like you that will stay. And you know what?

My peers, you know, if you like, they're in the same boat as me on that one. I'm going, if you like it, hang out with me. If you don't, don't hang out with me. But I will, I'm not going to sit there and be in this box that you guys are trying to keep me in now. And my first thing was, I want to tell every dick, Joe. I want to tell every hat fucking premise.

I want to do everything that will scare the fuck out of you, but that audience will fucking die laughing because you've got to understand that, you know, we've been, how can I say this? We've been dying out on caviar every fucking day lately. I want a McDonald's burger. You know what I mean? I'm getting tired of the snails, man.

The snails is a good metaphor. Tom, because when you came to this country, the comedy culture was completely different in the, like you said, in sort of 2000, 2001. It was completely different. What was it like then? And when did you notice the change? When did you notice this kind of more,

let's call it orthodox way of thinking or sensory way of thinking? Okay. I think that that all came when the, okay, That all came when the social media bubble showed up. Once you started all of a sudden seeing all these clips of all these other comedians out there, and I know a lot of comedians sit there and go,

I don't watch other comedians. I don't watch other people's fucking specials because I don't want to step on anybody's thing, but it's impossible not to. You know, and the problem was, Back then, you didn't watch a lot of people's specials. Back then, you watched who you were on with and all of that sort of stuff. But now, now the problem is that you do have all these comedians.

It's like, it's kind of like the way a high school girl would flip through Cosmo magazine. You know, now you're living in this world where you're trying to compete with impossible standards. because how can you not watch every comedian putting his thing on the thing? How can you not watch that and not compare yourself to it? You know what I mean? And you feel like that fat little girl reading Cosmopolitan going, I can never achieve this stuff, but yet you still try, which makes you, in a way, a bit of a phony because you don't believe in yourself.

You know what I mean? And so I think that back then you had no choice to believe in yourself. And that's where the comedy came from. And now you're sitting there. You're trying to compete with the rest of the world, which is just an impossible fucking task, man. And it puts a lot of pressure on you. And so when you say, what's the difference?

The difference is that it's hard to believe in yourself when you have all this other stuff going on and you're trying to compete. So you're trying to, you know, just stay in a certain line of a certain topic, you know, or whatever, where I don't think you had that back in 2001, 2002. Definitely didn't have it in the 80s. Definitely didn't have it in the 90s, you know what I mean? But come 2010, man, it was like, you know, everybody's just that. you know, fat little girl watching supermodels on TV all the time and just sort of going,

I want to be like her instead of wanting to be you. Hey, Francis, do you want to protect your privacy? Of course I do. Now that I'm an international celebrity who's appeared on hit shows like the Joe Rogan experience, I have to protect myself from vicious people looking to tear me down. I'm the Michael Jackson of the internet. Not the celebrity I would have gone for, but trust is important when picking a VPN. I don't trust anyone after she left me. She took everything.

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One tap on a button was all it needed for my entire life to disintegrate. Loads of people are saying that ExpressVPN is the best VPN there is. Business Insider, The Verge and many other tech. journals, rate ExpressVPN as the number one VPN in the world. Go on, Francis. Protect yourself with ExpressVPN. Use our link, ExpressVPN.com slash trigger today and get an extra three months free on a one-year package. That's ExpressVPN.com slash trigger. Visit ExpressVPN.com slash trigger to learn more. She took everything. When did you feel like, things start to change with, you know, what was acceptable to say or the correct way to...

Oh, like the death of the sexual assault jokes and rape jokes and all of that sort of stuff. Because I remember when I started in 2009, it was like, if you didn't have one, if you didn't have a rape joke, it was like, what's wrong with you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all doing it. And then suddenly... You know, that's a real tough one for me to answer. Francis and it's not that I'm a fear of it because when I think of that I think of book burning when I when I when you're talking about the what when the what you can say and what you can't say came in okay is that what we're talking about just so I make sure um the when all of a sudden

that ain't funny anymore that again that goes where society went all of a sudden you're seeing all that stuff on TV for real it isn't just a joke anymore. It's like proper real stuff going on. But in its defense, and I really mean this, and this is coming from my mother, of all people, it's like footloose. Do you know what I mean? Yep. You can't tell rape jokes around here no more? Hey, boy, watch you tell. There's a town dance and not saying that it is cool, but my mom said it the best. Anytime you can't show the absurdity of it, anytime you can't because that's all they were. Like everybody thinks,

this word joke is an interesting thing. Do you know what I mean? Because these subjects aren't jokes. Do you know what I mean? A joke to me is two guys walk into a bar. And you put that beside any of those words. All of a sudden, yeah, it cheapens this out. But if you're sitting there going,

I want to show you the absurdity of this, this topic. And that's what most really great comedians can do from George Carlin. But the problem is that the word joke just takes it out. Do you know what I mean? And so the problem is, is once you hide all these jokes away, you know what I mean? You put them in the dark. They just grow stronger and stronger and stronger. And the only way to actually bring the – you've got to shine some light on them

and put some clown on that. clown shoes and clown nose on that nightmare of a thing to show that it's the absurdity. So in actual fact, by not talking about it and showing the absurdity behind it, you know, you actually probably influence more people to do it. Do you know what I mean? Because you don't talk about it for the ridiculousness that it is, man. Go for it. I was going to say, like, I started probably a little bit.

later in like 2014, I think, started doing stand-up then. And by that point, you wouldn't have heard anyone doing a rape joke on the circuit. And I don't feel like my life is poor or for it. I'm not sitting there go, oh, my God, you know, we lost the great material about rape. I agree. That wasn't a thing that I felt. I'm not defending it, but... No, none of us are.

I'm just, I'm trying to also protect you a little bit because there'll be people watching this going. Of course there will. Yeah. This is where Jeff said I've lost it. That's my opinion. Yeah. This is what he was saying. You know what?

No, fine. If you don't want to hear it. But yeah. Yeah. And so I want to protect you a little bit because I think what you are talking about is it's important not to have rules in comedy so people can be free to be creative. But that often gets misinterpreted deliberately by people who want to disagree with us as we don't want to have rules in comedy because you want to do an hour. set about rape. No.

That's ridiculous. I know, but that is the way that people mischaracterize these things sometimes. So, but the freedom that you're talking about, you know, before the social media comes in, it's fascinating because it's, I think it's really interesting that comedians are self-censoring. They are. To protect themselves from their opinions of other comedians. given the fact that that's not who we're playing to. No.

As a comedian or as a YouTube show host or podcast or whatever, we're playing to the people watching this, right? That's our job. It's not our job to be liked by other comedians, and yet that seems to be, according to you, at least, the direction that it's gone in. Of course, I believe that. Again, I want to say any one of my opinions can change.

I'm old enough to know to not stick, but for now, for where I'm at, that's how I feel until somebody comes along and explains it a different way to me and can go, oh, I totally can see that. I'm not inflexible on any of these things. But yes, I do agree because and most of the comedians live in this world

called cancel culture, which is such a new, it's a new thing too you know what I mean like just one joke I mean that can change all of a sudden this whole body of work you do one joke can all of a sudden wipe all that stuff out a bar of course

illegal activity of any kind you know what I mean that that is that's a whole different thing but I'm what I'm talking about is oh so you made an attempt at doing something a little bit more risque a little bit more dangerous and that's why

you're seeing comedians now asking people not to bring their cameras in on a working night where you're trying to work out stuff. And I mean, that's where we're at now. That, again, that just shows the fear of everything. And it's like people just do, how could I say it? Paycheck comedy, I guess. Paycheck comedy would be the best way to do it where you're, your, your, your, your, really writing things that are there not to offend anyone.

Do you know what I mean? And that's where me and Patrice O'Neill would agree that that just isn't comedy, that's selling products. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you pleased everybody in that audience, you know what I mean? Then I've also got this for sale sponsored by. You know, whereas the best comedy that you ever had,

you know there's people walking out going, I can't believe he said that. But again, we're back to being subjective and all that. Do you think society has changed as well, though, Tom? Of course it does. Because I guess I think part of the reason is 20 years ago, people would walk out of a comedy club and they'd be like, I can't believe he said that.

Let's go for a pint. Whereas now it's like, I can't believe he said that. let's go on social media. What do you want me to say after that? Because that's exactly what happens, man. That is exactly, your stupid-ass opinion now can be translated to the world to be part of the content pollution that is out there. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. It's just, it's amazing back in the day. Like, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I don't know how I can add to what you're about to say because you're right. You would walk out. And the most people you could talk to was seven or eight guys. And four of them would go, shut up and quit being such a fucking weenie, man.

It's just a fucking comedy show. You know what I mean? Like, if you don't like them, don't go and fucking see them. How about that, man? But you're right. Now, you don't like a comedy show. Oh, my God. Here comes a Facebook post.

here comes a block i gotta block you now i gotta do all of that sort of trip advisor trip advisor four star commit three and a half star comedian yeah man so i i don't know how i can i'm only going to agree with you on that one good that's what i like just just do that that's fine i can't i don't want to argue that point because it's very valid and and like i did this how do you change with this world being the dinosaur that I am. Do you know what I mean? It's like, what fucking Trudy said it the best? It's like every time you go on stage, it's like watching a 90s comedian do a guest spot.

Like when she saw Rick Astley on the foo fighter, she goes, that's you, Tom. And I'm like, well, welcome to Jurassic Park. You know. So that's, yeah, yeah, it's just the whole scene is just, change so the real question is is is okay is the the pendulum always swings too far one way do you know what I mean yes and and if if you're a Buddhist or any of those things you know nothing stays the same so for what I what I like what I would like to think is that even though we are in this world we even though we're in this world of um you know and and before

I even say this. I also got to give credit to the comedians that aren't playing that part. Do you know what I mean? Because there's a lot of young comedians out there. I don't want to brush them all in the same because there are some really great young comedians that are also in my boat going, fuck this shit. I'm not dealing with that. You know what I mean? I'm not doing that. So I don't want to do it all together. But it is safer going the other route. You know, but there's going to be a backlash to whatever's going on right now. Do you know what I mean? You can't not think that, what, it's just going to keep on going that way?

You know what I mean? Because people will eventually get bored of it. And you know who the people will be the next generation? Because I also feel that every generation, this is the backlash to my generation. Do you know what I mean? This is... I don't actually explain. Well, for all the times, you know, like,

for all the things we were talking about, the kids have to talk about something different. Do you know what I mean to make a name for themselves? This is a man who's a father of two kids in their 20s. Yeah, yeah, man. Fortunately, I didn't get that backlash. But I think the comedians like the, oh, who would I say, the Bo Burnham's maybe or whatever,

they're the backlash to our thing. Because you have to. How are you going to be the same as your dad? Do you know what I mean? You have to do the exact opposite of your dad just to get noticed. So I think that also plays a big part in what's going on nowadays because, you know, whereas we grew up, on Richard Pryor

and all of those guys and whatever, Billy Conley for this country. Yeah, for us it was Colin and Hicks and people like that as well. Yeah, of course. Okay, okay. But for the average viewer, every time I say Carlin, they don't know who the fuck he is out in the UK and I'm like,

what? Which also shows you that he didn't even, the greatest comedian didn't really even go global man, whereas you know, Ali Wong. Everybody knows, you know, nothing against Ali Waugh. We're just talking about the, oh God, I hate

when I lose worth, but the advertisement, something in that right. Her PR fucking crazy. Whereas George Carlin stayed in America, but it was great. The backlash to them was like,

while they were the backlash to the Bob Newhart's and all. all that sort of stuff. And then for the longest time, it was there. And then we got to evening at the improv. I don't know if you ever remember that show. And then all of a sudden it started to become a little more TV clean, which is where we showed up.

You know what I mean? We still wanted to be like them, but, you know. And then all of a sudden, we probably took it maybe a little too far to go back to the, yeah, the, no, the topics and all that sort of stuff. We maybe did take it a little. little too far because you can only bring that so far too. And I think, and then these guys go, well, you know, I'm just going to be the cleanest comic that ever was and be able to do all this sort of stuff. But what I'm trying to say is eventually that, the next generation of comedians,

will be bored of that and will probably go back to where we are. Tom, it's such a good point and maybe that will happen. I mean, you were involved in, not a Not a cancellation, but used to write jokes for Frankie Boyle show Tramadol Night. And that had its own share of scandals. I remember one, it went all over the newspaper, banned this filth, etc. So what was it like to be in the center of that? You're talking to Tramidol Knights, Francis? That was probably the...

I would attribute that to the beginning of it, when it was him and Katie Price had the art, I know what you're talking about. So if you explain it to the... Frankie Boyle, believe it or not, if you don't know who he is, very... He loves, he's one of the last loves just saying things for, you know,

he's a very intelligent man, very intelligent man, a great joke writer, but he's definitely not afraid of backlash in any. I remember him actually telling me conflict is better than agreement. You know what I mean? Especially in conflict, because if you're doing comedy and you just walk out and go,

oh, that was a nice show. You're going to forget about the dude. But if you, again, you go out and go, all of a sudden, conflict, you're going to remember the person's name, right? So he did a joke, obviously, about Harvey. I have a theory that Jordan married a cage fighter because she needed someone strong enough to stop Harvey from fucking on. Ridiculous.

It was obviously ridiculous. But you also have a fame-hungry monster on the other side named Katie Price who saw an opportunity to go, oh, my God, this will put me in the papers. Because I don't know her personally or anything like that. But people's actions speak louder than words. And if you want to debate me on Katie Price's actions, over her lifetime. I think she's a bit of a fame-hungry monster.

A bit of an attention seeker. A bit of an attention seeker. And normally a joke like that would have just flown by for Frankie, but he caught the attention of this. And all of a sudden, that became one of the biggest stories of that time. And I think it ignited the...

Wow, actually, I've never thought about that until just now. So here's my first opinion on it before it gets changed throughout the years. I think that would have been one of the first times that people saw that you could get outraged at a joke and stop something. Because after that, they canceled this wonderful, dark show that was just getting its foot. I'm not saying it was the greatest. Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying that Tramidolmites was the greatest show ever, but it had the potential to be like the next young ones or whatever,

because the sketches were just outrageous. You had Jim Muir. I can't even remember the other dude, which is bad, but Jim Muir and this very talented, I think he was Berniston, Berniston guy who was in with him, and then Frankie and me, and it had the potential to be this wonderful, offensive. taboo kind of, you know, all right, let's close the curtains and watch.

Smell the big joint, you know. But she was really, I can't think of anyone before that who attacked a joke. So I think that might have, if I could throw in my how many marbles or in the jar theory, I think that might have been one of the first outrage to show people that oh, if I get really offended at a joke, I can actually do something about it. Did the show get cancelled?

It got cancelled because of that, man. She sued. I don't know all the details because when you got a show like that, the one thing about it is that Frankie's the hit. You know what I mean? I'm not the hit. They're not.

coming after me and they're not going after Jim and they're not going after Bernstein guy. They're going after Frankie. Do you know what I mean? And I think she was going to sue them and you know when you got executives going I don't need this kind of hassle fucking manned, you know, but in a way it also helped because tram it all nights became like a little one-season cult a show that's just out there with some really shitty sketches. Like really Actually, a former guest of the show the other day, for an unrelated reason, sent me a clip from that, which is the professor who wanked himself back in time. So it was of its time.

He takes his students back in time and only half of them come back because, anyway. It's so funny. But again, of its time too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, is it really, though? Yeah. I mean, some of the sketches, I think, some of them will, I mean, come on, man.

Just a kid jerking Jesus off on the cross to get back to, like, fucking his delori to get back to time was, I mean, it's so outrageous and ridiculous that anyone who took it seriously, you know what I mean? I mean, I don't know what to say to you. Yeah. But yeah, definitely. Oh, my God. I haven't thought about that in years. Constantine. I remember that.

Sorry. No, no. Yeah, so I think to the point of, yeah, I think that might have sparked off the offensive culture that came after that for this country. I don't know what was going on in Canada. Or I don't think the Frankie Boyle, Katie Price fight, hit Canada. but it definitely hit here because then you'd have all the stars like the whatever what's your name Cheryl?

Who's it? Cheryl Cole? Cheryl Cole and all that getting involved and going yeah it's in it you shouldn't bring people's kids into this and you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do that and then all of a sudden the debate was created and the show got canceled but Katie got more famous and Frankie got more famous so in a way they mutually helped each other but in a way they might have started the outrage, the offense. You can do something about it at the times that we're living in.

Wow. I'm not sure I believe that, but it sounds really good. Hey, Francis, if you were a member of the public, would you like the opportunity to ask incredible guests like Bill Burr, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Brett Weinstein, John Barnes, Douglas Murray, Nigel Farage and Lionel Shriver, your own questions. You bet I would. And what do you think the best way to do that would be?

Probably stalking, mate. You'd have to corner them in the supermarket, probably run near like the sort of frozen food aisles, and then just bark questions at them before they can escape. Not the American ones, as they have guns. And you'd have to be extra careful with the females, as that's how I got in trouble last time. Do you really imagine you're going to get Douglas Murray near the frozen food aisle?

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In fact, some people enjoy it so much, they prefer it over the show. They prefer locals to trigonometry. If I have to get them executed, I'm the one that goes to jail. Right. Go to trigonometry.com. Only $7 a month for all that incredible content. Trigonometry.orgals.com. See you there, guys. Tom, and do you find yourself,

did you find yourself after that self-censoring more and more with your material? Not really, because, again, I wasn't in the thing. And I'm not, I'm not an offensive. comedian Francis. Like, do you know what I mean? You are a little bit. I can write offensive jokes. Which are brilliant.

You're genuinely one of my favorite comics. I mean, I've seen you go on stage, Tom, and talk about, say, are there any men here in their 50s? Yeah. Are there any men here in their 50s with an 18-year-old daughter? And they went, yeah, and he went, do you ever sometimes look at their friends? And look, I was emcee at that gig. I was in the back dying with laughter.

Everyone was dying with laughter. There were a few women who maybe didn't appreciate it. Of course there were, man. But my daughter liked that, Joe. So let's just say that right now. My daughter was the one that said. I remember having to, I remember having, I wanted to use a funny name. I wanted to use a funny name.

And I kept trying to think of all her friends. And Natalco was the funniest because it just had that to it. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's funny you say that because I'm also the person that wrote Meatvan, which is the least offensive. But, I mean, I don't want to be a Dave Chappelle

and I don't want to be a Bill Burrs or these guys, and they're all great, you know what I mean? But I want to be, like, well-rounded. Do you know? I want to be able to step on both sides of the fence. I want to be able to say, you know what, got a kid's show coming up. You know, I want to go in and I want to, I don't want to tell them about finding your daughter's friend.

You're not allowed to find your daughter's friend sexy. But, you know, it's just one of those things that I don't want to pigeonhole who I am. Do you know what I mean? I don't want to be known as an offensive comedian because that's just wrong. You know what I mean? I want to be known as a guy who could tell an offensive joke. Ooh, Tom's told something a little risque. But he's also, you know, he's also talked about Argos for crying out loud, man.

You know, so. But I don't mind where we're talking about, Francis, is I don't mind going there. Yeah. If that's what you're saying. I don't mind going there. But I definitely don't want to be labeled. Oh, here comes Tom, the offensive. I don't want that either.

You know what I mean? I want them to go, oh man, that guy had a, like, there was something for everybody in there, man. But to me, that marks out the best comedians. If you think about Bill Hicks, everyone always remembers his political bits. But he also remembered the bit about the Gideon Bible. Like, who are the Gideons? You never seen one, never met one, yet they're all over the fucking world.

Like, it's a great bit of observation material. Of course. You know, and to me, those are the best comedians. I think that now this kind of need to categorize it. everybody, kind of demeans the art form, reduces it, you know? What is offensive to one, it's not offensive to another? You got to that, there's the, there's the, you, the word subjective, man, is so prominent in art. There is no, come on, man, of course. You talk about Bill Hicks. I can remember the first time I saw him, wasn't even on, it was on Rodney Dangerfield special.

I was in a town so small in a hotel I dialed nine and I got the Elmer Dinkley residence. Do you remember that one? Do you know that one? You see? So you're right. He does. And then all of a sudden he launches into advertisement.

Yeah. So he does. He does have that range to him that he could do. But the more he does one thing, the more people want that thing. And it's hard for him to stay true to, you know, you can't just launch out on a, an attack on advertised.

I see what you're saying, Bill. No, you don't get what I'm saying. Oh, that's the angle there, Bill. I don't say what you say. And then him going, so I was in a hotel so small. Right after that. It's got to, you know, so maybe you grow into who you are, you know, you give the people what they want.

And I'm not sure if that's the way I would like to go. You know what I mean? I don't want to just, like you say, go, hey, there's, oh, people really like that. I should do more of that. I know I got to stay true to... Yeah, stay true to all aspects. It's good to be able to write all different kinds of jokes. Everybody must agree on that, man.

You know what I mean? And I'm pretty sure even these... The one thing I do know about comedians, even these young ones, they do have dark jokes. But they just won't tell them on stage. They'll tell them at the table. the comedy club corner. I just, I don't disrespect you all the song. That's kind of one of the funny things to me and Francis, because we get criticized by comedians

a lot for the things that we say. And yet, we're only saying the exact same things they're saying in the car on the way home. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Of course you do, man. Of course I do. That's all that we're saying and nothing more. But listen, coming back to Edinburgh and coming back to you, we're talking about, you know, you want to, I actually, I suspect, that what you're really talking about is you want to be authentic to who Tom stated. You want to be you rather than trying to be somebody else. To let the audience guide you in what kind of material you're going to do. Yeah.

Yeah. What I find weird, though, is obviously while you were in Edinburgh, Jerry Sadowitz, his show gets pulled. And I'm going, like, if you've seen Jerry Sadowitz ever, if you've read the title of a show, if you've read the promo, like, you cannot possibly be. under any illusions that this is a guy who's deliberately offensive and that's the act, right? It's the act. And yet even that, like he does everything he can to make sure people understand, I'm an offensive comedian.

His show is called Not for Anyone. I don't, you can get clear on that. And yet somehow people still will come to his show, they'll get upset, they'll complain to the venue. Maybe it was the staff at the venue, I suspect, that complained. Oh, I got, yeah, I can take it. Oh, oh, oh. Dude, before we go into that, yeah, the staff, when I was on my last tour, I played a place called the Glee Club.

And I used the word appropriately, I used the word gay and retard just because it's from, but in context. Yes, of course. Do you know what I mean? I'm never not going out on the street and, you know, whatever, this. And, yeah, I had the staff complaint. And the next day they said, Tom, do not use those two words on tonight's show because whatever, we're LGBTQ friendly here.

And I'm like, are you kidding me? You think I'm not... My daughter's a dancer. You know what I mean? Are you fucking out of your fucking mind? I've been to parties with two kids that were breaking up talking to these. two boys going you're meant for each other man what are you doing you know what i mean like like just

because you your your topics or whatever doesn't what do you think what do you think i'm gay you're out of your fucking mind man but with jerry jerry was an interesting one over the festival because yes he is offensive there's no doubt about it there's not what you said not for anyone perfect title everything said but uh what what i what was i heard was it got into the racial hatred area you know what i mean and and and and i'm glad jerry's out there because personally i again i don't think uh he would match that uh that that i'm don't think Jerry's a racist in any way from the man that I know and all of that sort of stuff. But because he's so offensive, I think you want to go there. Do you know what I mean? You want to

at least talk about it in your own way, create the absurdity that it is. But I wasn't at the show. So I only get drips and drabs of what happened. But in a way, again, with a guy like Jerry, banned. To be banned is kind of what he wants. Do you know what I mean? To be banned from what I heard, from them banning him, and he only had two shows anyways. Like, let's not, let's not think that, oh my God, Jerry's been banned for the whole run. How will he ever? He only had two shows, the first one. And after he got banned, his actual tour sold out. man because because you're right if you're going to jerry sadowitz and thinking that over all the this man has cultivated uh trying to offend you from day fucking we got punched out in montreal i believe

for saying moose fucker and oh the Canadians were outraged and i'm like that's not the half of bit, man. And for him to get banned at the pleasance and listen to, we don't condone this kind of art form from whoever the, I can't remember what the owner said. We don't support that kind of thing. Tom, can I interrupt you there? Because it's an important moment, right? They didn't actually say we don't support this kind of material. Do you know what they said? Tell me. We don't support the opinions Jerry Sadowitz expressed on stage. Yeah, oh, that's, the opinions. Right.

So your comedy act is now your opinions. Yes. Yes. How the fuck does that work? Well, it obviously works because they said it. I don't know how because it seems a little bit ridiculous. But anyway, sorry, I interrupted you. So your point you're making is it's to his benefit, which, thank fuck, by the way, that it is.

It should be to his benefit. Yeah, you try to cancel Jerry. He's one of those guys. If you try to cancel him, you'll only make them bigger. Yeah. You know, if you really wanted to hurt him, you should have ignored it. Yeah. You should have just fucking ignored it and said, only one more show, let him get him out of here and then he's gone.

Yeah. But what you did was, yeah, you made him more popular than ever. Now all the racists are going to come and see him. And he's going to be like, you know, I got the gay pink dollar, I got the racist dollar. All these dollars coming in, you know. Yeah, so Yeah, to me that was, a lot of people said

that was the death of the festival because if it can happen to him, imagine what they can do to comedians that wouldn't survive it. Yes. Do you know what I mean? That's the real scary point on that.

Do you agree with that? Yeah, of course I do, man. Because now, now you can, there's this under, again, another, underlying fear you have to worry about out there is the, oh my God, if I say one wrong thing, if I offend the bartender or whatever, and I get whatever coming back, I could lose my run now. And if I'm not as big as Jerry is and that, you're actually, you could have your, there was

What was that? There was a kid, a lad kid, a little while back that they got really mad at, that it actually did happen to. And I don't know if you remember, he was, he was doing lad. Yes, the dapper laughs. Dapper laughs, man. He's the opposite end of that. He got banned and then his career just went down the fucking tubes, man, from the festival.

So dapper laughs, that's right, man. And so he's the opposite. He's something that could happen because they were, they were, what you said, they were putting his opinions. This is a character he's doing. But people decided that those were his opinions and boom, gone.

You know what I mean? So he didn't have the same strength as Jerry to rise up to it, you know, because Jerry had the people to go, like you're saying, that are, you know, of course Jerry's offensive. He's the most offensive. What, do you think you're not going to see an offensive comedian?

That's a good impression of. Yeah, and Dapper was the opposite of that, man. He got hammered. And we've never seen him since, man. We've never seen him since. And he was just doing a character on whether you like it or not, his character was pretty spot on of what goes on out there, you know? Yeah.

Tom... Do you ever worry about comedy the way it's going and like you're seeing these things happen? Or do you have faith like you said that it will swing back? I have faith that it will swing back, Francis. I, you know, because here's the other thing. If I was 20 years old, this is my starting point. Do you know what I mean? And how do you know that these kids, these new comedians,

they're just early on in their career? Do you know what I mean? Maybe they'll be looking at. and I can't believe I did that shit. You know what I mean? Like every other comedian looks back on their material and goes, oh, I'm embarrassed that I even did that and changed because every comedian has an arc to them.

Do you know what I mean? Some of them don't, and they don't go anywhere. But the real good ones have a nice arc to them that will change. And I think, yeah, I do think that comedy goes through periods. Do you know what I mean? And this is just where we are. And we can talk about it like we're doing right now. We can complain about it.

We can show its merits. We can show its faults. You know, and for us, it's scary because it's not a world we know. Do you know what I mean? It's like this whole new, everything we know is slowly slipping away. And now I have to find my place in it without changing who I am. Do you know what I mean? And that's a very tough route to go down.

you know, but I'm going to have to do it or I fade away. You know what I mean? Like, I just got on TikTok for fuck sakes. You know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, my God, I got 174,000 views on something. And my endorphin levels went up through the roof. So in a way, to me, you know, as much as I don't like it, I also find it a really good tool for me, too.

You know what I mean? because you still got to remember there's enough of us. There's enough of my generation to fight off this generation. Right, you know, like, you know, there's enough of 50-year-olds and that, that love, that think it's shit,

that fucking hate it, fucking hate it. And they want, you know, they want to Dave Chappelle talk about transgender. you know, whereas, you know, and you could see the push. And if I could use that as a nice example, you can see the pushback, you know, like, again, but it takes a strong comedian like that to lead the charge in something. So you've got the younger ones that are fighting them this way, but you also got his fans that are going, shut the fuck up.

And, but again, just that's the change. we're moving through for me. Like, I can't not deny it isn't happening. I can't bury my head in the sand. And I can also just see them, even though I may not like it, I can also see them as tools. And how can I use these tools to inject my kind of comedy in there? Like, throw a little, you know, wood shoe in the clog

and maybe, maybe influence one of these younger comedians to be, you know, to, I don't want to say be like this. It's like so bad, but to show them another way, you know. Maybe, maybe. Well, it's a nice positive note on which to wrap up, Tom. It's been a real pleasure. I hope people will come and see you. I think they've got a flavor of the stuff that you do.

And you're a very good comic, of course. The last question we always ask is always the same, which is what do you think is the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be. One thing we're not talking about is a society. I think we're not talking about the death of the lead singer of the tragically hip, Gord Downey, the Canadian icon that didn't make it globally, but was probably one of the best singers and one of the best bands in the world

that got shoved under the carpet for some reason. and only really remained in Canada. And I think we should be talking about them and letting the rest of the world introducing them to the tragically hip. And if we talked about it a little more, then the world would have one great, another of the great bands that they're missing.

Fantastic stuff. Tom, thank you so much for coming on. So you're on TikTok. where else do people go to find you? After all this rally. I'm on Snapchat, TikTok. Tom stay.

Tom stayed on TikTok. I'm on, I'm reluctantly on whatever the tool Facebook, TikTok. I'm known as the commander on Twitter. I got an Instagram where somebody else had Tom Stade, so stayed.com.

Like, just saying these things out loud makes me feel like the hypocrite. I know that I might be. But yeah, we just joined TikTok. So I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find me if you really needed to, Matt. And you're also on tour. Don't forget to plug the tour. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm on. That is one thing.

Yeah, thank you, man. I'm so bad at that. I'm so bad at promoting my... I'm always... God, I always sat there and go, you know where to find me. That was the dumbest thing I've ever done in my career. Yeah, if you go to tomstayed.com,

you can find where I'm playing. I'm coming to... I think we got about 40, 50 dates all over the UK. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. And you can join the loyal state in these fans that have been with me since the beginning, and I love them all.

I've partied with them, and I love them all. And everyone should go and watch you, because to me, you're one of the finest comedians working at the moment. I love watching your stuff. Oh, thanks, Francis. That's really kind, man. Well, it's the truth, man. He looked at me as well, waiting for me to.

Yes, mine as well. Yes, I love you as well. No, we're both big fans, Tom. Make sure you go and see him. And thank you for watching and listening. We will see you very soon. another brilliant episode like this one or a raw show. All of them go out at 7pm UK time.

And we're also going to ask Tom a question from our locals. But if you want your Trigonometry on the go, it's also available as a podcast. Take care and see you soon, guys. There is no way you're going to compete with party, Tom. There's just no fuck. I could keep up with Snoop Dogg. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day.

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