TRIGGERnometry - Was the "Kill Whitey" BBC Joke Too Far? with Freddy Quinne

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

The brilliant Freddy Quinne joins us. Check his work out at https://www.youtube.com/user/FreddyQuinneComedy. Support TRIGGERnometry: Locals: https://triggernometry.locals.com/ https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Paypal: https://bit.ly/2Tnz8yq Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kishon. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. A terrific guest today is a comedian. Freddie Quinn, welcome to Trigonometry. Hi, thanks for having me. I am a fascinating person. Good. Good. Okay, cool. I'm enjoying this. I'm up for it, man. I'm psyched. We can tell. You don't even know which camera to live. look at. The level of professionalism among comedians is very well known. But listen, it's good to have you here. Actually, most people won't know this, obviously, because they don't have access to my Facebook

messenger, thankfully. You and I were having a conversation in the wake of this thing that happened on Frankie Boyle's New World Order, where a comedian made the joke or trying to explain that when BLM supporters say, Kill Whitey, they don't really mean Kill Whitey. They don't really mean Kill Whitey. and the joke was, we do, right? And I sort of said that I always defend the comedian's right to make a joke, but I also thought it was inappropriate for whoever produced that show to include that bit. I thought it was ill-judged. At which point, a lot of people sort of had some pushback on it,

and he's scratching his ear, and he were one of them. But I actually thought the way you and I talked about it was pretty sensible. So because you disagree, we thought we'd get you on, and we'll have a chat about it. Yeah, man. Look, I think disagree with people is a good thing. Like, I never get those people that, like, have big Facebook statuses. And if you disagree on this, unfriend me now. And it's like, why would you want to surround yourself by people that think exactly the same as you do? I like that we think different things, man. And I like that we can talk about it. So,

and I mean, the fact that obviously I'm right as well, you know, makes me feel a lot better. Well, so to tell everybody what your take on the whole situation was. So, right, I was a little bit, the reason that I messaged you is because I was a little bit surprised that you sort of were kind of against. Because that's what it was, really. You were against it being heard, weren't you, the Kill Whitey thing, yeah? I was against it being broadcast on the principle that I thought it probably wasn't the best part of that show. I mean, maybe the tragedy is that it was. but I don't know.

My point is, I thought it was an ill-advised thing for the BBC to broadcast. That's not to say that she should be censored or punished for the joke. But we all know we try new material, for example. We don't include stuff that doesn't work very well, do we? So that was my thought on it. But it is to say that what you're doing is you're passing the issue of censorship from the comic to the editor, which I don't think is a way of dealing with the issue. I think you want to remove that censorship altogether.

That's surely everyone's end goal, isn't it? Like, I don't understand why you would say, oh, well, the comic can say, oh, it's fine for the comic to say it, but the editor then has to make the choice. Blame the editor. I just feel like it was passing the book. Well, my take on it is that when you create, curate a program, you don't include everything.

You make choices, editorial choices about what you include. And I thought, particularly at that moment and time where the racial conversation was very heated, that was a very ill-advised thing to broadcast. It doesn't mean, as I say, that the comedians should be punished or censored or anything like that. I just didn't think it was a good bit of thing to include. That's all. So why was it ill-advised? Because I thought it wasn't funny, number one. Okay.

Let's stop. I agree with you that, I mean, I don't personally think it was funny. But two things. Number one, I'm not the target audience for race-related comedy. Do you know what I mean? Aren't you? I'm not the barometer. Look, I'm not, I don't, you know, the bits that I've seen of Sophie's stand-up,

I don't find it particularly funny, but I, I'm not the target audience for it. So I'm not like, I'm not weirdly naive enough to think that everything in the world should be tailored to suit me. It's not to my taste, but give a shit. it's not important that it wasn't funny. It's just meaningless. It doesn't matter whether or not it's funny or not. It was obviously intended as a joke.

Like, that's indisputable. Like, there's no... I don't know about that. There are a lot of people who would dispute that. Yeah, but those people aren't rational thinking, but surely not. Because, I mean, here's how you can tell it was a joke, right? She said, we don't want to kill Whitey,

and then she literally does an aside. She turns her body and goes, we do. And then she goes, we don't, we don't, we don't. She literally moves her body in order to sell that joke. And she's being booked as a comedian on a comedy-related show. It's just her way of solidifying the reason that she is to be there. And I felt it was ad-libbed as well. I didn't feel like it was premeditated or anything like that.

So for me, it was a massive storm in a tea cup. I think that the UK is very uncomfortable with seeing issues about race on TV. I mean, look at the Britain's Got Talent thing the other day of Nabil Abdel-Rashid did, is set on Britain's Got Talent semi-final and got 730-odd complaints. Yeah, I think that's definitely, there's a lot of snowflakeery on both sides. But the issue on that particular thing, and I'm aware that Francis hasn't said, said anything for the first 10 minutes of the show, which means it'll be a great episode. Yeah, absolutely.

But the thing with that one is, I mean, she is trying to defend a phrase that is literally about inflicting violence on people, right? Using humor, right? Kill white, I mean, killing white people is a phrase that's about that, right? So let's say Leo Kirst, the only right-wing comedian who might be tempted to say something like that went on that same program and when when we talk about putting black people back into slavery we don't mean it i mean we do right and he turned his body in the same way and he did the same thing do you think the response would have been the same as it was to this particular

incident well obviously not but i i i see that more as a lack of consistency on both sides to be i don't really think it's the it's really the same issue to be honest with you i mean this whole like you can say this so why can't we say that there's never an exact parallel do you know what i mean like what you've done is you've kind of created a scenario that hasn't existed and asked me to compare it and i don't really like i don't get look here's the thing i can understand why people would find it offensive but my line is about consistency if you think you think think it's offensive, fine. Good for you. You think it's offensive, then that's fine. But you have to think that everything's offensive and treat it the same way. You can't, for example,

kick off about Sophie, Dukkah, saying, Kill Whitey, but at the same time, think that the Count Dan Kula Pug thing was absolutely fine. Because to me, there's an underlying thing there about censorship and freedom of speech that should be consistent throughout. And the same goes for the other way as well. You can't be lambasting Count Dankler and going, how dare we do this, blah, blah, blah, but at the same time, go,

oh no, Sophie's fine. For me, consistency is what we should be aiming for. Francis, why don't you say something, mate? And one thing that I wanted to ask you, Fred, is do you think comedy is being used more and more as a political football by both sides of the spectrum? So you have the left when it comes to count,

Dankula and the jokes that he made and saying, you know, this is anti-Semitism, et cetera, et cetera. We saw with Joe Brand when she made the battery acid comment. You had people like Farage on the right say that what she said was unacceptable. Do you think that more and more comedy is being used as a football by both sides to try and prove a point? I think it's a really easy way of point scoring, isn't it? It's a really easy way of creating segregation between them and us. Do you know what I mean? To me, it's two sides of the same coin.

I find it ridiculous when people only choose to back the things that are lie with their course. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm for really largely for freedom of speech within comedy. I mean, I think that if you're on stage as a comedian, then you should really be allowed to say, you know, whatever you want within reason, providing it's absolutely a joke. And, you know, it is sort of concurrent with, you know, society and stuff like that. I mean, I'm not saying that you should be able to go on stage and talk about race like it's the 70s or anything like that. Do you know what I mean? It has to be concurrent with, you know, where.

societies are. But, I mean, I just find it daft. Maybe you're right, Francis. Maybe it is political point scoring. I just think it's people being fickle, to be honest with you. I think that it's way easier for you to take something and try and amalgamate it with your political beliefs than it is to try and be underlyingly consistent about a particular issue. And do you think there is a problem with freedom and speech in comedy, Freddie? Do you think that comedians are being censored? Or do you think this is just right-wing comedians trying their hands up in the air and moaning about nothing?

Well, that's, I mean, I find it irritating that the issue of freedom of speech within comedy goes hand-in-hand with being right-wing. Do you know what I mean? Like... Yeah, very much so, mate. I find it very annoying because I wouldn't, classify myself as right wing at all. And to me personally, you know, having values like

freedom of speech and stuff has always been a typically left-wing thing for me, do you know? Like letting people express themselves freely, I think it's quite a liberal thing, isn't it? So for me, for it to be associated with right-wing, you know, ideology and stuff, I just don't understand where that's come from. Well, you get put in that box the moment you say anything about free speech, neither Francis or I are right-wing, but both of us are regularly thought of as that in the comedy world, at least. I wish I had the bank balance to be right-wing, mate.

Yeah, you don't. And as long as I'm in control of the finances of this show, nor will you. Insert anti-Semitic joke. Exactly. Maybe you are right-wing, after all. But the point is that the moment you start talking about free speech, everyone immediately. says that you are right wing in comedy and then you sort of like that's that's just how it is but i guess what francis was getting up and i think this is a much broader much of a broader issue that's

more interesting perhaps to talk about is do you actually think there's a problem with you know hypersensitivity do you think there's a problem with people being uh censorious in comedy taking offense too easily uh etc yeah absolutely uh if you speak to the majority of working club comics, they'll tell you that people get offended way too easily. Do you know what it's down to? I think, honestly, I think the reason that people have become so easily offended is the culture of social media. Like the way everyone's got a Instagram account and a Twitter account and so people are used to feeling like their opinions should be heard all of the time. So if somebody sees, sees a piece of stand-up and they don't like it or they're offended by it.

It used to be back in the day, 10 years ago, if you can believe this, if somebody didn't like a piece of stand-up, then they just ignore it and wait for the next joke. I mean, it was a crazy system and I don't know how we managed. But now, with the way that social media is, everybody feels as though their opinions need to be heard and felt all the time. And so, yeah, I think there is a problem with people becoming too easily offended. And I think it's not as easy as it's not as easy as saying like a blanket statement, people are too easily offended.

I think it's more nuanced than that. And I think it comes down to people not readily wanting to hear certain voice. voices saying certain things. So what I mean by that is that I feel as a offensive northern working class comic, I am afforded less maneuverability than some of my middle class well-educated counterparts. So if I say something offensive, then I'm horrific and offensive and horrible. whereas, you know, if a middle-class white gentleman, you know, says something, then they are genre-defying and challenging and boundary pushing.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But don't you think that also speaks to the classism within our society and also the classism within comedy critics as well? Oh, there's huge classism within society and within comedy. Absolutely enormous. I mean, if you look at the... the Edinburgh fringe, which is still for some reason the biggest deal amongst comedians.

Like, that couldn't be any more skewed towards people with money to spend. Do you know what I mean? And even if you can afford it, you know, when I took my show up last year, I had a paid venue and I sold 93% of my tickets. and if it hadn't been for the fact that I stayed with friends for the whole month, I would have lost money. Oh, it's crazy. There's a very famous story of the comedian Chris Ramsey having a breakout year with an Edinburgh show. And I think he sold out every run or something like that.

You know, he sold out every night of his run. He got nominated for an Edinburgh Award and he still lost like four grand or something like that. Fredi, let's just come back to the bigger picture, because I feel like this is very interesting to the three of us and seven open-mic comedians who may be watching. But the audience more broadly probably couldn't give a shit. Let's come back to the other point you made, which I think is a very, very good one, which is that how you are perceived in terms of material that you do, in other words that you say, depends largely on how you are perceived as a person. And so a big northern working class bloke like you sounds like if you're doing material of court that's offensive, is it that people are much more readily assuming that you mean the offensive stuff you say as a joke? Or that they recoil in horror at the thought of someone who looks like a Viking saying it?

Do you know what I think it is? I think there's a hangover of, Northern working class comedians from the 70s, you know, you're Bernard Mannings and such and you chubby Browns and that sort of thing. Heroes on this show, man. You're what, sorry? Heroes on this show, obviously.

But I think that if you like, you know, if you're northern working class and you, you know, you sound a bit rough around the edges and, you know, uneducated, then I think people automatically put you in that, bracket before you've even started your joke. And once people have that frame of mind, oh, this is going to be controversial, this is going to be unacceptable, then they can contextualize everything through that lens. And it becomes very difficult to extrapolate comedy out of that

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He knew that bit off by heart. And also, don't you think as well that when you're going to, you know, you're perceived, the way you're perceived by the industry, in particular comedy critics, they perceive you in a certain way. You always see the references, Northern working class comic, etc, etc. And again, they view you through that particular lens. It's almost like you're a cookie cutter of another type of Northern working class comedian. Yeah, it's shorthand for them, isn't it? Because the standard of reviewers is not very good.

You know what I mean? Like, it's very rare that you get an objective review of a comedy performance. And another irk of mine is that I tend to find that reviewers are way to ready to sort of inject their own tastes into the... So for me personally, a review should be, what is this... person doing and how well are they doing it. That should be it. Like you don't see Mark Commode, you know, doing a film review about a rom-com and going, oh, well, you know, the script was fantastic and the two characters had real chemistry and the film was well-paced and full of surprises and it

was shot in a way that was interested and unique. But I just don't like romantic comedies, two stars. Do you know what? No, it's, you know, it is a very, very good point. And but looking at TV as well, I think the way you see the real bias in comedy is where we talk about diversity and, you know, we must have diversity. And you see all these people and lots of different colours and there's more women now, which obviously is a great thing, but they all seem to have gone to Oxford in private school. Yeah, I am for diversity, but I think what we should. should be focusing on is diversity of voices, not diversity of faces, which is where I think

the problem lies. For me personally, a 20-year-old white lad from Oxford and a 60-year-old white man from Cumbria are going to have vastly different, you know, life stories and experiences. I think it's, I think it's really strange how we just assume that because they're both white and male, they're going to be speaking about the same things. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you look at, I mean, there's huge strides in diversity in comedy at the moment. And, you know, it's fine. But if you look at, well, look, I mean, it's fine.

Do you know what I mean? Like, good, you know, I don't really have anything to say. It doesn't really affect me, to be honest with you. Doesn't it, Freddie? Well, the way, look, the way that I see it is like 15 years ago, white northern working class man was currency. Do you know what I mean? Like, you look at your Peter K, Dave Spikey, Paddy McGinnett.

You know what I mean? It was a golden generation to be a white man from the world. the northwest. And nowadays, you know, we can't get a look in. Whatever. Do you know what I mean? It'll be cyclical in 10 years' time. You know, it'll change again.

It's all cyclical this, you know? It's just a phase. I mean, I think it's good, particularly that there's more, you know, female acts and people of color and things like that. I think that's important because, like, I do. buy into the idea that if all you see is straight white men doing stand-up, then that's just going to encourage more straight white men to do stand-up. There has to be a point where you show other people in there and then the next generation, you know, we're going to look at that and go,

oh, I can do that because somebody else is on TV that looks like me as doing it. And, you know, that will in the long term, you know, lead for, you know, a depth of quality. you know, across, you know, the whole circuit. I think that that's a largely good thing. But when you're talking about diversity at the moment, there's two fields that are massively being neglected, and that is class and age. So, and why do you think it's important that class is represented?

Why do I think it's important that class is represented? Because I'm... Because I'm one of them. Because I'm working class and I'm rooting for myself, Francis. Do you know, it is true, isn't it, that everybody sees the lack of representation in the thing that they identify with. Do you know what I mean? Like, you get a line. This is where I don't agree a little bit, Freddie, because it never occurred to me that I need to see a Russian Jewish immigrant doing comedy for me to do it.

That was never a thing. One's enough, exactly. That never occurred to me. I don't need to see a Russian Jewish comedian doing a YouTube show talking about political and cultural issues. It never occurred to me that I need that. So I don't really, I think we've bought into the narrative, which I don't personally agree with. I know loads of people who've done something being the first person to do it. And I'm not sure that, and particularly this was the other question I was going to ask you,

and it's a bit of a pointed one, so feel free to dodge it. Do you not feel that part of the drive? And I say this as someone who really doesn't have a dog in the fight anymore. I'm done with club comedy. I'll do my own shows to my own audience. I'm really not rooting for me to get any opportunities at all. I really genuinely don't have a dog in the fight. But as a neutral observer watching it,

do you not think that the drive for diversity has meant that there's been a drop in quality? Right. Okay. Let's go for the first question first. because there's two big old issues there, Francis. Okay, cool. I'm not getting involved, mate. You crack on, Freddy.

Constantine. Sorry. So look, right? First of all, what I would say is that you have really drilled down into your own identity. And you've drilled down right into the specific Russian Jew. And it's like, yeah, there ain't no other Russian Jews. You know, fine, whatever. But if you look at it on the broad umbrella term of white, bloke, there's fucking loads of us.

Do you know what I mean? And we're all over the place and we're all on TV and we're all, you know, historically we've all been in stand-up and that. And so if you look at it in terms of just white man, there's loads of other people like you in that sense, doing the things that you do. I get what you're saying about somebody has to be the first and that's true. But I do buy into the fact, look, like maybe. I would have been a great ballet dancer.

Maybe I would have properly made it. Interesting example that, yeah. But in my head, you know, ballet dancing is really like a female thing. Like I know that women do it and things like that. But because, sorry, I know that men do it, but because I've predominantly seen women do it, I never even thought about it growing up. It wasn't even, you know, it wasn't even something that.

I think they made a film about that, didn't they, Freddie? Oh my God. But yeah, I mean, look, I think that if you have really good, you know, diverse acts on TV, I don't think it's a stretch to say that there are going to be, you know, young women watching stand-up comedy shows who are really big comedy fans who watch and they see Ashling B or Rishine Korn. or Fern Brady or, you know, Catherine Ryan, and they watch these amazing acts and they go, oh my God, I could be like them. Do you know what I mean? It's like a role model thing, huh?

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the great act or is the push for diversity lowering the quality? On TV are in clubs? Well, let's start with TV. I think that's what we were talking about originally. Okay, so on TV, I would say that quality is being lowered because people are focusing on diversity. I don't think that that's, I know that there will be people watching that and going, You can't say that. But really, I mean, it's...

Not in Trinonometry, mate. I honestly think it's a crying shame that there are acts like Jeff Innocent and Mick Ferry and Kerry Marks and Adam Bloom, who are incredible acts that get next to no television. And there are other acts

who are on, you know, comedy shows. that get, you know, they're basically, you know, open spots, promising open spots, and they're getting TV experts. I think that is the point where we've kind of jumped the shark a little bit. And you know what? It's funny, really, because when I think about this, I'm not like, I'm not trying to be bitter about it, because quite frankly, if you are early on in your career and somebody gives you the opportunity to go on ITV-1 prime time

and do three minutes of comedy or whatever, then that's a brilliant opportunity and you should absolutely take it. Do you know what I mean? Of course. It's never about the acts themselves. You can't ever blame people for who've been given an opportunity for taking it. And if you were in their place and suddenly we had a massive quota for bearded northern blokes. No one would blame you for jumping on that. I'd just love to watch all the northern blokes suddenly grow beards. Yeah, well, they already have, I think. But what I think we are talking about here is the system more broadly, aren't we?

Yeah, it's, look, I mean, there's a drive for that. It goes back to what I was saying before about it being cyclical. There's a drive for diversity at the moment. So if you're a diverse act, you're going to get those opportunities more early on in your career than, you know, perhaps what you should do. And that's just, it's not, it's not anyone's fine. I think if anything, it's the, it's it's it's down to, you know, the major TV networks and how they choose to to show comedy. And, you know, it's, it does lead to. I mean, let's be fair.

The question that you asked was, does it lead to a depth in, you know, has it led to a depth in quality? And I don't think it is, I don't think anyone would disagree with the statement that it is not the best acts that end up on television. Certainly not always. But that's the same with most industries. Like the best musicians don't end up on, you know, top of the pop. or whatever it is, you know, like, it's just the way that it is. And Freddie, you were talking about, you know, seeing, you know, white men on television and, you know,

people who look like you. And I put the question to you, isn't that quite a new way of looking at it? Because when I was a kid, like, and I'm actually someone from a mixed race background, and I looked at someone on TV, the first thing I would look at would be for a prism of class. I've just go, oh, they're posh, all that. I would look at these people on screen and think, I couldn't do that because they come from a posh background. Yeah, but it's the same thing as what I was saying.

Do you know what I mean? You know, you look for people that are like you on telly, and you go, well, I can do that too. It doesn't matter if they look like you or sound like you. It's all the same deal. Yeah, but you would argue as well that working class people in particular aren't getting represented in comedy. So this way of saying, well, this person is a white man, therefore, you know, I make a connection with him.

I don't think it works like that because I think we're so class-witted in this country that if someone's a white bloke but very, very posh on screen, I don't see a connection with him. Your classist is what you're saying. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, I, you're framing it in a way that makes it sound like we disagree, whereas I think that we agree here. Yeah, I think you do. I think you do. But Freddie, so let's come back a little bit to what you were saying earlier, which is where I think we come right back to the beginning about the BBC putting out that joke that neither of us I think thinks is funny.

And this is the part that a lot of comedians are missing, which is the BBC is at great risk at the moment because there's a lot of people who feel simultaneously that it doesn't. doesn't like them, that a lot of the content that's being put out by the BBC is biased against them. And at the same time, they feel that it doesn't necessarily represent their views. And a lot of people, certainly a lot of people that we hear from also feel that the comedy output on the BBC has dropped in quality. Now, whether that's to do with diversity or not, is a different issue. Maybe because of the different technologies that we have now, Netflix, Amazon Prime, whatever. Everyone can. and watch exactly what they want and therefore something that appeals to everyone no longer exist.

I don't know. But certainly the BBC is a threat. There's a big campaign to defund the BBC. And that was also part of my thought process when I was critical of them putting that bit out. I just thought in an environment where the BBC is already on the threat and the threat of being defunded, pushing those quite divisive ideas under the pretense of comedy wasn't necessarily a good outcome for the BBC. and I'm a big fan of the BBC. Right.

Okay. So what I would say to that is that the definition of comedy is not what you personally find funny. So because you don't find it funny, it doesn't mean that it's not under the pretence of comedy. She was clearly joking. Like, to me, it's a clear joke. Now, whether or not it's funny, like I say, completely, completely irrelevant. I mean, I think that you're tying in two separate issues, to be honest with you. I don't think that anyone's going to specifically, like, you know, be all of a sudden, you know, passionate about defunding the BBC because someone's heard a joke that they don't like.

No, you're very wrong about that. You're very wrong about that, Freddie. I'm happy to disagree and genuinely, I really appreciate that we're having this conversation. But on that issue, I can just tell you from people that I have. hear from that that is not correct. There are a lot of people. Do those people then, are they not so flippant that they will change their minds once the next issue comes up? No, no, it's more to them, it's more of a straw that broke the camel's back issue. It's like they feel that the BBC wasn't particularly interested in their views. Maybe they voted leave in the referendum. And they feel that the BBC after the referendum was quite keen to make out all leave voter sound

like bigoted racist, et cetera. It doesn't really represent them anymore. And now you've got a comedian talking about killing Whitey and joking that that's the intention of the whole slogan. And it's sort of like the straw that breaks the camel's back. And look, I'm not trying to win this argument by any stretch of imagination. No, I think it's interesting. I'm just putting that information to you that there are a lot of people that I hear from

that very much feel that way. But why would they have been watching that show then? like, I don't get what. How many of those people, do you reckon we're actually watching that show? Zero. Yeah, and so we're offended. I think the majority of these people see a tiny little snippet, because the whole thing was about a discussion about, you know,

racing society and stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, my issue is, if you don't like it, don't engage with it. Don't watch it. Because if you do that, it goes away. It's a fucking great system. This is the same thing that I talk about. And it broadly talks about what we're talking about with offencing comedy.

Like, if I'm doing a set and I am quite an offensive act, if I say something that offends you, then there's a great thing that you can do. You don't have to put your hand up. You don't have to shout out. You don't have to tell me how offended you were. Right. Here's what you do. you don't make a sound.

And if enough people agree with you and also don't make a sound, I don't do the joke because it isn't funny. It's a perfect system. I don't see why. And I think it goes to a bigger point that at the moment, people are so like self-serving. There seems to be this attitude nowadays that everything made has to cater to me. everything has to be for me

and I'm not putting any political bias on that I think it happens at both sides of the political spectrum you know it has to be for me you know that that joke about killing Whitey I can guarantee you

I can guarantee you I can't guarantee you all I don't know why I just said that I bet that if you were somebody who grew up were ace was you know a huge issue in your life, something, you've battled racism on a daily basis and it's something that

you really had to live with and something that you were really hyper aware of. You'd be watching that show, you know, or you'd be more likely to watch that show. You wouldn't be offended by what was just said. You'd naturally, you'd see it as a joke. You know, I mean, look, Sophie played the audience that she anticipated was going to watch it. It, you know, it. It's, you know, Is it her fault that a load of people saw an out-of-context clip, saw a one-minute segment of an hour-long show and went, how dare she? This isn't what I pay my licence for.

I think the attitude that needs to change is within people. And do you know what I think part of the problem is, is that there is an absolute dearth of comedians with a different point of view politically on the BBC? So immediately she says that joke on an overtly left-win programme, And, you know, it is, from what I've seen, a comedy slash political show, but they don't seem to get anybody on from the right side of the spectrum. Even Jeff Norke can't get a sniff on there.

Yeah. And so people just see that as another example of BBC bias. So who did they have on that show? They had Sarah Pasco. They had Dane Baptiste and they had Jamali Maddox. Okay. Who would you have had on there to redress that back? What we're really talking about is all of the people on that show agree with each other.

That's what we're talking about. Ah, right. Okay. Fair enough. Well, yeah. Do you know what? Well, it depends what you want in that show then, doesn't it? Actually, Frankie Boyle, who hosts the show?

He's not woke. What are you about? He is very much. Just pay attention to his Twitter, mate. I pay attention to his stand-up. His stand-up isn't woke. Did you see the special that he put out during lockdown? I haven't seen the special, but he is woke, believe me.

Right. His stand-up isn't woke, though, is he? Yeah, his stand-up, no, which is one of the interesting things about it, is that he's someone who made a career of being very offensive, breaking boundaries, et cetera. But actually, his opinions now have become increasingly woke. And it's an interesting thing. It's a transformation that we've also seen in America

with someone like Jim Jeffries, who made a career. out of doing sort of jokes that I would never ever do, rape jokes and whatever. And then he's lecturing everyone about how we must respect women three years later. Maybe, maybe people's jokes are not necessarily their opinions. And I think that we make a huge mistake every time we assume that because a comedian's joking about something, it means that they are, you know, for or against that particular thing. and beneath the joke is a sincere opinion.

Do you know? No, I know what you mean, but I'm not suggesting that that was the case with Frankie or Jim. I'm not saying that Frankie always had this opinion and now he has a different opinion. I'm just saying if you listen to what Frankie says seriously, he is woke. Really? I try not to do Twitter, you see, so I know.

And that's probably a good thing, right? I worry, right, with Twitter because I think there's, look, if there was an app that allowed you to like connect to your brain and every thought that you had just went onto a platform and everyone could see it,

there's no fucking way you download that app because the amount of times that I think messed up inappropriate stuff that I don't want anyone else thinking and Twitter to me is just one extension of that because the more people tweet the more people lose the

filter of is this tweet right? Should I do this? So I don't pay attention. I'll use it occasionally, but I think it's a poison platform, so I don't usually go on it, man. I'm just worried that if I ever achieve a modicum of success and northern balding bearded men who back in fashion with the BBC, then some dickhead will go through my Twitter timeline and find a tweet from 2010, and I'm cancelled before I've even started. But joking aside, that is a very, very, very real fear, though, isn't it? Do you ever feel that within comedy and your comedy career that there are right opinions and wrong opinions?

And that ultimately, if you hold a wrong opinion on any particular subject, that that could prevent you from progressing? Oh, mate, 100%. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And loads of people feel like that. I've recently started doing a bit. Like, I've only done it once.

And the basis behind it is that we should sort of, we should learn to treat. comedy as like a buffet. Like, if you go to a buffet, you don't expect to like everything on the spread. That's not what a buffet's about. But as long as you get your little plateful of stuff that you like, then everything else doesn't matter. You just pick the bits that you like and then you have a nice, lovely time. Like, I don't like keesh.

And so when I go to a buffet, I just don't eat, like, I don't fucking, I just ignore the kish and then that works out fine because there's always somebody who really likes keish who goes oh my god there's not this case look and then they get to have more of the stuff that they like and i get to have more than the stuff that i like i don't walk up to the keesh and go i find this keesh offensive and throw it across the fucking room stick it in the bin but isn't the problem that the person who goes i find this kish offensive or i don't like this keesh and walks away is a TV producer or somebody who can potentially help you up the ladder and enable you to be more successful.

Mate, I think that is still a problem, but it's nowhere near as much of the problem as it was five years ago. The way that social meet, comics are smart, man. Like, you guys are clever, do you know? Like, you two of, Constantine has realized, you know, to sort of, you know, to sort of, you brand himself properly and Francis has realized that Constantine knows what he's doing. Do you know, it's exactly. It's a clever system that you guys have got working.

But look, we've adapted and at the moment there are many comedians who are cultivating their own online following. Do you know what I mean? And they're fan base. That's why I'm trying to, you know, up YouTube channel and put more stuff out on there and things. and hey, look at the stuff that you guys have got. You got, what, 150,000 subscribers? You got 150,000 people that tune into everything that you said. That's like, what other channels have that sort of reach on TV?

What does BBC 3 average 150,000 viewers for all the shit it puts out? And you get to be the masters of your own destiny. You're the stars of every show that you put out. you get to edit it and cut it and choose it however you want. No, mate, we have a northerner to do that for us. Yeah. But you get my point, though. Five years ago, it was dead important to please TV executives.

And it still is important or whatever, but it's getting less and less and less important every day because more and more acts are tuning into this fact. They're going, hang about, wait a minute. Why am I waiting to do, you know, three minutes at, you know, 10 o'clock at night on a major TV show? Why don't I just buy a camera and plug it into a computer and I'll start making my own fan base? Hey, look, look at what Nigel Ung has done during lockdown. You know, Nigel Unger's has got, what, nearly two million Facebook, so YouTube subscribers now?

That's enough to tour off. He's set for life. Christ knows how much money he's going to make through advertising on his clips and stuff. He's not waiting around for people to go, all right, okay, we need like an Asian guy on our next show. So let's bring him on. He's done his own thing. And more and more acts are tuning into that every single day. If you gave me a choice legitimately, if you gave me a choice between being on next seasons live at the Apollo or having 50. thousand YouTube subscribers. I would take the YouTube subscribers every single day. And Freddie, do you think that the TV companies, because of this lowering of quality, which I think everybody pretty much agrees with, have sown the seeds of their own destruction in that people turn on, and they're not as invest in the whole diversity agenda as any of the rest of us or whatever else, look at it and go, oh, that's not as funny as you know, as comedy used to be, switch off, I'm going to go on YouTube.

Look, it's part of a rich tapestry. Do you know what I mean? Like, maybe, maybe it is part of what's going on. But there's plenty of fantastic, diverse acts that for whatever reason don't seem to get a look in. Like, for example, when I was in London, we were talking before this about Top Secret Comedy Club, which is one of my favorite comedy clubs in the country. There's two acts that do there regularly, Tanya Moore and Nico Yehwood.

They're both bloody amazing comedians. Yeah, both friends of ours, yeah. And there's others as well. This is something that Francis and I talk about all the time. There's plenty of other black ethnic minority female acts who don't get a look in. And again, if you pay attention, there's reasons for that as well, which I certainly would say have something to do with. with a sort of progressive agenda. But that's my take on it.

I mean, I watched, you know, last time I was at Top Secret, I watched Nico Yew would blow the roof off that gig. He absolutely annihilated it. And I find it incredible that, you know, he's not being given TV opportunities. So for me, it's not as simple as to go, oh diversity is the issue because it it makes it sound as though every female and every

person of colour or whatever is being given the opportunities and people are when actuality I think there's loads of people who are great that for whatever reason aren't getting a look at. Maybe, look, maybe it is part of the reason as to why the BBC is struggling at the moment. But I think a much, much bigger reason is the fact that YouTube is miles better. Netflix is miles better. Do you know what I mean? Like, how can the BBC compete with YouTube where you can physically find the stuff that you like? You can subscribe to it and you can watch it whenever you like.

It's just, you know, the BBC hasn't even caught up to that shit yet. This whole on-demand thing has been around for years. And they're miles behind. So I think that's a bigger reason. Do you think we should defund the BBC, Freddie? Oh, mate, totally. Absolutely. I'm fucking, mate.

They get him. It's like he's walking to a candy shop. Between me and you, I have not paid my license in some time. That's interesting. I didn't expect you to say that, Freddie. That was almost a tongue-in-cheek comment. Why do you think we should defund the beep? what genuinely why do I think we should defund yeah yeah yeah because I resent I resent being forced to pay for something that I have no control over you know what goes on do you know what I mean like look right here's the thing is I think that the way Netflix works is pretty fucking good because I subscribe I get loads of great shows and if they stop making great shows then I unsubscribe and that I don't subscribe and that I

And that's it. And so what Netflix does is they go, oh, well, a lot of people have watched this and really enjoyed this. I guess we better make more things like this. And that works as a great barometer of quality. Whereas as it stands, if you hold people to ransom and force them to pay 120 quid a year, then, you know, it's, it's, the quality of stuff that's on the BBC is nowhere near. the quality that's on these streaming platforms. Well, it's interesting. We're sort of agreeing, you're agreeing with a lot of the stuff that I was saying. And actually, maybe one of the reasons that you know what I talked about, the breaking of the camel's back thing? One of the reasons it's a bit different with the BBC is that people are forced to pay for it. So it's the combination of being forced to pay for something and then having stuff churned out

that you don't agree with or don't like, which pisses people off. But it doesn't matter. I think you made your point very clear on that. But in the same vein, though, like, I'll tell you what pisses me off is Antiques Road Show. Like, I think it's bollocks, but I'm not offended that it's on. Do you know what? No, your point's well taken, mate. Yeah, I think you made your point very clear.

And actually, I think the important point that you made about the takeover of technology and the fact that we all have our own destinies in our hands now. So this whole or this comedian got promoted. This is why I said to you, I've got no dog in this fight now because I'm very happy with what we're doing. We've got this show. We've got our other stuff that we do. And I'm not really bothered about it because if you embrace the power of the internet and the technology that's now available, you can make a success of your career. You don't need anyone to give you any opportunities.

Oh, I mean, for me personally, I have started to pay so little attention as to which. comedians get booked onto what new stand-up shows. I don't give a fuck. Do you know what I mean? Like, I look at who's booked on this season's stand-up sketch show. I couldn't give a shit because it's just not something that I care about. To be honest with you, the thing that I care about is performing comedy live. That's all I'm asked about.

And for me, if I was ever on television, then the only reason that I'd want to be on there is so that I could get more fans so that I could perform comedy live more. Do you know what I mean? And it's easier for me and way more convenient for me to try and build my own YouTube channel or to try and build my own social media following than it is for me to try and pander to TV executives that don't even want what I'm selling. It's a good life comedy is doing well at the moment, isn't it? Depends how good you are, mate. I've not stopped gigging. Boom. Comedian destroys former comedian.

That's what we'll put at the episode of this title. But Freddie, thanks very much for coming on. We're running out of time, mate. So we've got just one more question for you. Which is what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be? So there is a show on Netflix called American Pitmaster. barbecue and it's like great British bake-off but with like barbecue slow roast and stuff mate nobody's watched it and I'm the only fucking guy that has it's it's unbelievable and you know

what there just isn't enough working class northern men on that show you know it's you know what I like about that that was entirely on brand on both of those answers I just really don't see myself I'd love to be a pit master but I look and they're all American and so I just it's a dream that never finalize itself for me. Mate, if you got the tattoo of the Confederate flag on your forehead and got yourself an AR-15, you would blend right into the audience of that show. Mate, if I was like born in America, I would be like a deep south, Arkansas, redneck, you know, fucks his sister kind of guy.

That's just, you know, that's, I mean, I mean, that's a dream I've always wanted, quite frankly. Well, good luck with making that dream happen, my friend. But listen, thanks for coming on the show. Where can people check out? And genuinely, whether people agree or disagree with whatever we've been talking about, you are a brilliant comic and your stuff will be something that appeals to a lot of the people who watch our show. So where can people find your stuff online? You can find me. And thank you for having me, by the way, guys. I know that we don't agree on absolutely everything. But by God, I do love being able to, like, happily. and civilly disagree with people and not turn it into a slanging match.

Enjoy the cancellation, Freddie. He said enjoy the cancellation because the headline after this will be Northern comedian says women aren't funny or something like that. Yeah, if you want to find me, then you can. the best place to find my stuff at the moment is YouTube. YouTube.com forward slash Freddie Queen Comedy. I actually have filmed a load of gigs, outdoor comedy gigs outdoors in like weird venues. So we did one in a barn, we've done one in a field, we've done places in people's gardens.

We did one on a building site that is so fucking illegal. It's true. We broke every COVID law, but it was a great show. And it's a free series that's going to be available this month. The trailer's dropping on Sunday. And it's going to be a great way for you to enjoy comedy for free during lockdown. And all you do is just subscribe to the channel and you'll be able to watch it.