TRIGGERnometry - We Need a Cultural Resurrection

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Andrew Klaven is an author, screenwriter and host of "The Andrew Klavan Show" at the Daily Wire. Follow Andrew on X: https://x.com/andrewklavan SPONSOR. Augusta Precious Metals: Protect Your Retirement with Physical Gold. Rated #1. Click to learn more: https://bit.ly/triggergold Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Substack! https://triggernometry.substack.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Shop Merch here - https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media: https://twitter.com/triggerpod https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod/ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod/ About TRIGGERnometry: Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. 00:00 Introduction 06:01 Has The Insanity Really Ended? 12:02 The Religious Right 21:34 The Cultural Battles 31:07 The Economic Reality 39:16 Snow White And The Cultural Shift 53:14 Is There A Vibe Shift In Hollywood? 01:03:55 What's The Thing We're Not Talking About That We Should Be? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rachel's a loudmouth bitch. She's just like, you know... Cutting edge diplomatic analysis. First thing they do is they come out and say, well, this is not going to be the old Snow White where the handsome prince comes, so he means it's not going to be Snow White. I don't want to minimize, so to speak,

Peter Daintiff's his infliction. The grim fairy tales come from women. They're the stories that women told their children. That's what they are. If we've come to a point where we can't make fairy tales without everybody saying, no, no, no, you can't say that. We've come to a point where people are denying the deepest truths about human beings. I have a lot of hope that if the arts come back, the West will come back. Andrew Claven, welcome back to Chicanometry. It's great to see you guys.

We hit you up every time we're in D.C. You have kind of an interesting window into the cultural dimension of the United States. And frankly, we've been here for a week. I have to say, every day we become aware more and more of our own ignorance of what's going on. Interesting. Things are very complicated here in a way that I think people underappreciate particularly in Europe.

One thing I would say definitely is I think before the last election, it was kind of, you know, we knew what President Trump was promising to do. And now we're talking about like Greenland and Canada becoming the 55th. Like no one had that on their on their bingo card or whatever the term is.

So what's going to be a lot of, going on in America? Well, let me... Why, what's going on? Let me give it to you from my point of view. I never wanted to be a political commentator. I never wanted to be in front of a camera. I'm a novelist. I make up

stories. I did some screenwriting. You know, that was basically my work. When I came back from England, where I lived through most of the 90s, I found that the culture here had become utterly corrupt. Our news media was corrupt. Hollywood was corrupt. They were telling us things that weren't true. Their stories were bad.

and when 9-11 happened there were people going they were quite saying it but they were basically saying we deserve and I was a Democrat I was a liberal Democrat and I start to say well you know guys we didn't deserve it it's their fault they're bad they hate us because we're pretty good you know we're kind of good

you know we're not Craig but we're the best around you know we're as good as it gets and I start to say well what happened you know and I started talking about the culture. And when you talk to conservatives about the culture, because they were the only people who would listen to me, when you talk to them, they're thinking like, I'm sorry, I don't know, culture, how do you spell that? You know, what does that like? And so that's been my fight. My fight has been to get people to see that they're being lied to every day by a genuine, it's not a, it's a conspiracy of interests. It's a conspiracy of people who think

the right is bad and the left is good and you can't go far enough left to please them and it's all based on the fact that leftism is good for big corporations. That's really the big thing about it. They pretend it's not, but it is. The day Trump got reelected, the night he got reelected, I was the only person of the Daily Wire who knew he was going to get reelected and knew he was going to get reelected that night. They literally told me, we did a joint show and they literally said to me,

that can't happen. And I said, yeah, that's what's going to happen? He's going to win the popular vote. He's going to win the electoral vote. He's going to win it tonight, you know. When that happened, a sense of peace came down upon me that I rarely experienced. I just suddenly thought, ah, ah. And the reason I thought that had nothing to do with Donald Trump,

although it couldn't have happened without him and without his incredible courage and his incredible indomitable personality that has its good sides and its bad side. But it was like, I thought we have rendered the news media, which is now a wholly corrupt institution in America. We have rendered it irrelevant. And we did it through the Daily Wire, and we did it through other news media, you know, the Joe Rogan Show and Megan Kelly

and all these different voices that still haven't got, all put together, haven't got the reporting power of the New York Times. You know, they have more reporting power, but we're able to debunk what they're telling you in real time. So when they say, you know, Joe Biden's fine, he's never been sharper. We've got like 50 videos up,

instantaneously showing the guy drooling and wandering and on his finger up his nose and having no idea what the hell he's doing right and and we broke them you know and so I felt like oh that you know I was on the winning side of that fight and it always felt to me I would always compare it to the American Revolution no offense but I compared to the American Revolution this was an empire of lies this media and we were kind of popping up from behind the trees taking these pots and we beat them you know and so to me that's the big story that is a bigger story than almost anything else that's happening. And I think it's great.

I think it's 100% great. Yes. You do? Yes. It's only a start because we've only, we've beaten them, but we haven't won, which is two different things. We have to build reporting power. We have to get, if we can, you know, we have to get rid of the voices on the right

who are despicable, you know, the anti-Semites and these people who think like, well, they told us we were racist, so we'll show them what racist looks like. The reactionaries, the people who only. don't have anything positive to say, they're only reacting. But still, if we can become the establishment news media and maintain our commitment to telling the truth and to people being free, this is not Europe. We believe that the people come first.

We are the sovereigns. They just work for us, right? If we can get back to that mindset in the media and start covering people, you know, from that point of view, so we criticize them when they're off that point of view and we praise them when they're tending toward freedom. I think that's going to be a wholly positive, 100% positive development. All right.

Well, since you've insulted us twice, first with the revolution comment and then this is not Europe, right? I'm going to take you to task on a few things. Look, I think that, I don't know that I would say peace, but we were in L.A. when the election happened, we were watching the results. And we both talked about it on our show. We both felt relief. Yeah. Because this insanity that we had just... lived through for eight maybe even longer years was over.

You know, it was clear that all this woke nonsense, the trans, this was going to come to an end. However, the question I have for you, Andrew, and you're a very smart guy, who I really respect, is, fucking somebody else. Do you think that the stuff you talked about, the reactionaries? And look, reactionary or not, there are people who've worked out

that the way to get attention on the internet is to say the crazy thing. And, you know, to under-index truth, if we're being generous, and to over-index sensationalism, right? Do you think that's maybe a feature and not a bug of the transformation that's happened? Well, only time will tell, but here's why I'm hopeful. This is a lot of it the result of a new technology that is as dynamic and kinetic as the printing press. The Internet changes everything, right? It's just a complete game-changer in every possible way.

And so those guys get their strength from the lies that we're being told. So you would say, you know, the welfare state can be dangerous because it gives the government too much power. You're racist. Not I disagree because of business, but you're racist, right? And you'd say, well, men can't become women. Oh, my God, you're, you know, transphobic. They make up these things that, you know, that you had.

It's a natural reaction to that to say, like, oh, you call me racist while you're, you know, blacks. Let me tell you about the blacks, you know. Like, in other words, to break the chains that they put you in. The only person did it effectively was Donald Trump. I mean, it's amazing what he did. You know, it's amazing the fact that he just didn't, it wasn't, he's not a racist. He's a New Yorker, you know. He talks like every New Yorker I've ever met, you know.

And he would just sort of say what he was going to say. And they threw everything out of him. And look what they did to him. They prosecuted him on felonies that don't exist. I had a dissociative moment when a judge said to the jury, you don't have to know what you're convicting him of, just convict him of something. The judge actually said that, you know, and I kind of thought like, what country am I in? Where are I am I? They shot him, you know, they did it. And he just stood still and kept going. That to me is the answer. That's the right answer. I'm going

to say what I have to say, no matter what you say. These guys that we're talking about, the anti-Semites and the racists and the people who are Andrew Tates who hate women and, talk about women like their dirt and all the stuff, you know, stuff I can't stand. They're reactionaries. They don't exist if that system of lies and censorship is not in place. Break that and build up the fact-gathering powers of the, let's call them center-right or the normal right, they won't have a chance. They'll just be, you know, why not? Because we talk about this new technology. Look, Francis and I are part of this world as as you are. And we know that if we had someone on to talk about how Jeffrey Epstein is secretly

behind the transgender epidemic and he did it together with Iran and Israel and, you know. It'd be a hell of an episode. It'd be a hell of an episode. That's going to get a lot more clicks than someone coming in and talking about, let's say, even why those arguments are not true. Right. Right. So how certain are you that this medium that is not, now dominant in terms of the media we consume is actually not itself prone to promoting the voices that you dislike so it's a perfectly good question when you say certain it's the future so i'm not certain at all the future is always you know uncertain yeah but this remains a very very uh pleasant

country america you know you get out of l a you get out of new york you go to the middle of the country people you know they call them racist they're all they're all racist go ahead and go talk to them you know, they're married, they're intermarried, they don't, they have neighbors of all different colors. It's not that country anymore. It's not in the heat of the night. It's a different country. And it's always been kind of a decent country underneath it. So I have faith. You know, when you ask how am I certain? No, I have faith that cooler minds will prevail. The people who believe in this stuff are so stupid. I mean, I've been getting just crap from the anti-Semis He just said, these people are idiots.

And it's funny, they don't have low IQs. They're just caught in a maze that has no exit. So everything comes back, you know, no matter which road you come down, you come back to reconfirming all your prejudices. And it makes you dumb after a while. I mean, you got people talking about, oh, the Jews built a bomb so they could bomb Nagasaki. And you go like, oh, my God, you know. And the facts do have an effect on that over time.

Obviously, a lie gets around the world before the facts get their pants on. But still, the facts do have a lot. an effect over time. And, you know, there's an answer to those things, you know. It's like the guy who dropped the bomb was a Catholic. He wasn't aiming for the cathedral. It was a cloud cover and the clouds opened up over the cathedral. You know, it's like all those things that they've built up, most of them have never read a book. And ultimately, if you put together the people who have read books and who can get on the ground instead of having all commentary, which is what the right has been up until now, because we just haven't had the power. But if you start to collect,

reporters who go on the ground and say, here's what's happening over here. It's a little complex, but we can explain it to you. I don't know. I think those guys fade away. They fade to the margins. They'll always be here. You know, they're bad guys and they'll always have bad guys. But I think they fade to the margin. So I have faith. I'm not absolutely certain. We may become fascists and, you know, I don't know, but like, I don't think so. And Andrew, what do you make of the religious right at the moment? And there have been movements and there have been talks about what changes they want to implement in America. We've seen with some of them they were saying, you know,

that they want to reduce the abortion laws to minimum three terms or maximum. At the end of the first term, it may be. So what do you make of them broadly as a whole? Well, I have a very specific idea about this. I mean, and it's different than probably most people who will talk to. I think we're at the beginning of a genuine religious reawakening. And I think it's based on one thing, which is that the science is there. The science up till now, the sort of Newtonian science, which is, you know, more than 100 years

out of date, sort of gave people the impression that the things you read in the Bible aren't so, you know, that's not the way where the world works. It works in a much more mechanical way. Science since then, and since Einstein, has really changed that. And all those arguments, those kind of assumptions have gone away. And I'm a very deep believer that God is real. And when I say that, I don't mean like, I believe that because it makes me feel better, the culture is better, or because it gives me comfort. It actually is kind of a pain in the neck.

I believe it's as real as gravity. You can't see it, but you don't want to jump off a roof. And so I think that we are in the, it's happening already. We're in the midst of something I've been predicting for a long time, which is a reawakening from the top down, the intellectuals, are going to start converting. And this is the same thing that happened in the early 19th century with the Oxford movement in England. You know, suddenly people are going to say, oh, wait, you know, the assumptions that have been the fault for intellectuals have actually collapsed underneath us. And this is already happening. You should read, well, you should read my son's book, Light of the Mind, Light of the World, and also Ross Dau Thadha's book, Believe, both really interesting books about this.

And so I think that that's a thing that is happening. That's one thing that's happening. Religion does have its fundamentalist, it's small-mindedness, its abuses and all that. And those things, again, are going to come up with this movement. I think they're going to have their place. This is a multifaceted country. This is not a country with a single culture. It's a country with a million cultures spread out over a huge, vast, you know, area.

And so I think they're going to have their places. But I would like to see a little bit less of the craziness in high places. You know, I would like to see somebody of solid and solid faith come into office and just say, yes, we are going to talk about God. We're going to say, you know, like the transgender thing is a perfect example. The right has a tendency to say, well, it's bad for you or it's unnatural. And I said, you know, it's no more unnatural than air condition. which I like, you know, that's not the argument. The argument is, it's a good thing. Creation is a good thing,

and men and women are a good thing. You know, the world was made to be good. It was not made to be bad. It gets corrupted, but it was made to be good. And men and women are actually, the fact that there are men and women is actually the most joyful aspect of human life, mortal life. And that's a better argument. And I think that those are the kinds of arguments I want to see people make. I want to see people talk about religion as if it were the case, which is the way I think. think about it in the way I think people should talk about it. So the media hates God because it means that you can't do what the media wants you to do, which is screw everybody and change your sex and cut your children's penises off. And that's basically what they're playing for, you know.

So they don't like God. They don't like creation. They actually are, the people who say that the left, leftism or wokeism is a culture of death or right. It is a culture of death. It's based on abortion. It's based on, you know, nobody has a human nature. It's based on the idea that marriage and children are, take you away from the fun things in life. It's a culture of depth. And I think that what the media does is if you have 50 religious people and this guy over here is a lunatic, they crowd around him and it makes religion, you know, look like that. If there's something that they think people will feel as small-minded, like the dislike of homosexuals, not dislike, the disapproval of homosexuality, that's the only question they'll ask you.

They won't ask you, why are you a Christian? What is it you think the world? What do you think of the spiritual facts of the world? It's immediately, stick a mic in your phone, the microphone in your face, and say, you know, why don't you like gays, and then take a picture of a tear drop running down the cheek of a gay person, and that's the end of the... To be fair to them, though, Andrew, it's not as if, as we say in the UK, we're on from, there hasn't been previous. You know? I agree, yeah. But I mean, this religion, Christianity, which I believe is the right religion, has been around for 2,000 years.

So like a boat that comes in to shore and it's got barnacles on the side, it's got things on it that are out of date, you know, that are not necessarily inherent in the religion and that are also open to question in the religion. religion, I think. And so, yeah, I think it's nice that we now hear Christians say, well, love the sinner, but hate the sin. But that's not what they always said. They used to say, set that guy on fire. That's not as appealing to me, you know, as a religious point of view. And so I think these things, you know, require open discussion. But the one thing you will notice, and I don't know, this didn't seem to me to be true when I lived in Britain, but the one thing you will notice here is discussion is discouraged. It is not just that it doesn't happen.

It is almost forbidden, you know, and this wasn't true when I was a kid, but it's true now that, you know, there's a debate about in vitro fertilization. You know, it has these embryos, are they people? What do you do with them? It's a perfectly reasonable conversation to have. This is an ethical, deep ethical question that should be, where do you see anybody debating this? Once again, it's like, I call this tear-drop, German. It's like, you know, there's a tear drop running down, a woman who can't have children, and there's a tear running down. Isn't that terrible? That's, you know, IVF is good or you're a Nazi, you know? That's the way we talk in America. Well, I think it's big, help me here, Andrew, because I always love discussing this stuff with you. You're someone who actually does like discussion and genuine conversation, even with people where there's disagreement where you're being presented with these different arguments. So I think the central theme of the progressive project has been maximum liberty for all. without regard to any of the costs.

And when we talk about IVF, or you talk about abortion, or when you talk about gay marriage even, to some extent, a more religious perspective that comes with the religious revival, which you described is happening, and we certainly, that's one of the things that has been quite stark for us on this visit, just noticing that that is happening. Particularly in the halls of power, actually, as you said at the top of the tree, so to speak.

Those things are naturally likely, if that realignment happens, to lead to a reduction of liberty for some people. And you can see why people who have been marinating in a world of maximizing for liberty would be concerned about that. And the very predictable problem with the woke craziness is that it would piss so many people off so much that eventually there would be a snapback

and that snapback would not necessarily be back to the middle, so to speak. So what do you make of what I'm saying? Do you have at least $50,000 in your 401k or another retirement account? If so, listen up. The global landscape is increasingly unstable and over $4.2 trillion has just vanished from retirement account. That's why many people, me included,

are turning to gold as a hedge against these challenges, and thousands are turning to Augusta precious metals. They help you move part of your retirement into physical gold, something real, something that holds value when everything else is falling apart. And the best part? Augusta makes it simple. I've met them and seen how they work. There's no pressure, there's no games,

just a team that actually takes the time to walk you through it. Thousands trust them. They've got an A-plus rating with the BBB, and they're all about education further. Don't just take my work. for it. Mike, who compared a dozen other gold companies, said on Trust Pilot, none of them come close to Augusta. Justin said he was very cautious about moving a significant portion of her retirement funds, but Augusta's team was professional, honest and patient,

leaving him very happy with his choice. That's what sets Augusta apart. No pressure, just expertise, and real trust earned the old-fashioned way. So if you're serious about protecting what you've earned, click the link in the description of this episode, Go to TriggerGold.com and grab Augustus Free Gold IRA guide. That's Triggergold.com. It's your retirement. Make sure it's protected. Okay.

Well, I'm a very pro-liberty guy. And I believe that. In fact, I always say in politics, I had, my show was on, my podcast was on the daily wire four days a week. And I went to them and I said, you know, I just don't have this many opinions. I really have one opinion, which is people should be free. You know, people should have choices. However, people are corrupt and, you know,

sinful and broken and they do terrible things to one another so obviously they can't be totally free yeah so the question is always where does the freedom start of course and a really good way to talk about this is to talk about abortion which i believe is an atrocity i believe it's a horrible horrible thing i also believe that you can't outlaw it at a time when people think it's a human not just good but a human right so you have people who think like me this is killing people. This is killing innocent people of one person in the room who has no voice, who has no vote, who has no power, is not the woman, it's the baby. You know, that's, that's it. And so you kill him because he can't say anything. He can't say, please don't kill me, you know.

And so that's my point of view. And then you have other people saying, you know, you are taking away my bodily autonomy. And the fact that it's not her body, it's actually a body living inside her body, doesn't seem to register. And so I think these are cultural battles. And a lot of people on the right disagree with me. You know, they think, no, we need a court order just saying this is the right to life and you cannot kill a baby. And I get that. I do because it's got, I was talking to my wife about this. It's kind of like John Brown, you know, he's nuts and he's violent, but he's right. You know, and so how do you deal with that?

And I think we could use a lot less nuts and a lot less violence and more like people of goodwill sitting down together and saying, you know, how do we reach a place that we can all live with. So you've got to convince people and you've got to show people the truth. There's a reason pro-abortion people knock over stands that have pictures of babies. Because once you see it, you think like, oh, wait, I think we're winning that argument, but people jump the gun and people say, we're going to outlaw this and all this. And the women get hysterical. And they say, you know, no, no. And I don't know the women.

It's the men, really, because they're like, you know, no event I'd have to take care of this trial. You have to be able to talk, even in a case like this, I believe it's an extreme case of hundreds of thousands of babies being killed every year, 600,000, I think, in America, close to 700,000, and millions around the globe. It's an extreme emergency situation. You still have to talk and work out your ideas. I mean, you don't have a choice. The only other choice is civil war, and that, to me, is worse, almost than anything. So that's my feeling about this. Yes, there are people, religious people who just are absolutists.

I'm not. I feel like, you know, you have to stand with God, but you have to stand with God in such a way that you can talk to people and show them why you think what you think. And hopefully the right wins out, you know, I mean, I don't know any other way to do it except start shooting at people. And like when I look back on the Civil War, you know, this, I think. think what would have happened if there had been no Civil War, where the slaves not have been freed? I don't think, I don't think that's right. I think they might have been free.

You know, maybe, you know, Lincoln was saying, like, don't start fighting. I'm not going to take your slaves. If they had listened to Lincoln, maybe there would be less bitterness now. And maybe the, whatever it was, 700,000 people who were killed in the Civil War wouldn't have died. You know, so I'm very much about, like, the culture. You know, how do you get your message out in such a way? that people start to think, all right, wait a minute, maybe I've got this wrong.

I think part of the fear from people on the left, Andrew, is they listen to you, and they are reassured and go, well, this guy is evidently reasonable. He has his opinions, but he's able to sit down and explain, and we're going to be able to come to some kind of, you know, an agreement of some sorts, where nobody's happy, but that's fine because that's the nature of agreement. Right. But there is an inflexibility. amongst a more hard line that simply won't allow it. And they will look at those people as being the majority

and seeing you as being an enlightened minority. Well, let's be clear that the hardliners are on both sides. I mean, there's no way you can say that somebody who thinks, this is my right to kill this child is not a hardliner on that side if you're looking at it from the right side. So, yeah, there are hardliners on both sides and you have to hope that cooler heads prevail. And one of the things about democracy when it's actually working is that it's kind of conducive to convincing people.

And that's why I hate this idea when people compare politics to war. I always think, no, in war, you're trying to kill the other guy. Here you're trying to convince the other guy. It's different. And one of the reasons I think where I started, the idea of the media being broken is so important. is because they were in the media in this country has been responsible for almost all of the hatred, all of the anger, all of the division. I blame NBC, ABC, CBS, the New York Times on the Washington Post for almost all of it,

because they live off it, they spur it on, and they only represented one side, which was the left, so that the right was furious all the time. And when you're furious, you say stupid things, and right-wingers would say stupid things. So, like, I think if we could, Trent, if we could reform the press, I think a lot of it would change. Consider just this. I don't know if we've talked about this before, but, you know, you're a comedian. I think comedy is huge part of our culture. Every late-night comedian made fun of Donald Trump and supported the Democrats.

So you come to the end of a long day and you turn on the TV and you say, oh, I just want to watch one of these late-night shows. I just, you know, but I used to watch the monologue and go to bed, you know. And all you hear is, you're an idiot. You're an idiot. You know, only the people on the other side are smart. Your candidate sucks. You're Trump. You like Trump.

You suck. You know, that's all you heard. What do you think that does to people? You know, I mean, that's bad for people. And that's what they were hearing from the news. That's what they were hearing from the entertainers. That's what they were hearing when the Oscars would go on, you know. And the fact that those people have been stripped of cultural power is a wonderful opening for people

on the other side to say what I've been saying along the moment. I don't want the left to stop making movies. I want the right to start making movies. I don't want the left to not have comedians. I want the right to have comedians, you know? That's what I want. I want everybody to have a voice. And I think when everybody has a voice,

a lot of that extremism starts to melt away. And that's what I'm looking for. That, to me, is the answer. I think all that extremism, that rigidity that you're talking about has been created by this left-wing cultural monopoly. And I think it's been, it's almost hard to think. Like whenever people criticize Donald Trump and, you know,

he's got all the power, he should be criticized, you know. But whenever they criticize him, my first thought is, wait a minute. Joe Biden was probably the worst president of this country ever had. He was a corrupt man from his very beginnings. He's a mean-spirited little man.

This idea that he was Uncle Joe, lunchboxer, all lies. This guy has been on the take for 50 years in government. He has just been riding off the government tit for his entire career and he's been a you know taking graft and he's been doing all this stuff and he censored people he persecuted Donald Trump he prosecuted him for fake crimes he said we're going to investigate his his justice department investigated Catholics for being Catholic investigated parents for trying to stand up for their children's in school it's a terrible administration but in the

press it was fine in the press he was great you know everything was fine it's just Donald Trump was the problem you know so that That atmosphere has got to go. I'm thrilled that people make jokes about Donald Trump, as long as they make jokes about Joe Biden. I'm thrilled that people expose something that Trump did wrong, as long as when the Democrats get in, it's not suddenly the Wizard of Oz and everything is great.

You know, we're on the yellow brick road. That to me is the problem. You were talking about the Internet and whether it actually is prone to this. I think what is causing it is the domination of the culture by the left, by one side, and if it were the right dominated, it would be the same problem, just the other way. And the Internet might possibly break this. I mean, the biggest thing that happened in this battle that I was in to take back the culture

was Elon Musk taking over Twitter. And suddenly, this guy who was, they loved him on the left. He was going to solve global warming. He had cleaned cars. He was cool. He was going to Mars and all this stuff. Suddenly they were investigating his businesses. The government was in that.

Why? not because he was a right winger, but because he let right winger's talk. They turned him into a right winger because he thought, oh, all the censorship is here. That's what's got to change. And a lot of the problems that you're noticing, they won't vanish, but a lot of those problems that you're noticing of rigidity and division were caused by the monopoly of cultural power that the left held. There is another dimension to this, Andrew, I would put it to you, which is something we've talked to a few people about. It was Andrew Schultz that mentioned that, mentioned on a show. Charlemagne mentioned

on our show different people, which is the economic reality for many, many people. And I don't, I'm still trying to work out, so I'm only putting this as a question, but I can't understand if it's a cultural thing or if it's something that I notice more

because it's happening more. But just walking around in the different cities of America now, I agree with you, especially the further into the center of America, you go, the lovelier people are. And generally, you can go into most places and find wonderful people,

really warm, generous. But out on the street, I just see all the time that there's a latent anger everywhere. Interesting. We were taking a walk here this morning and a guy in the 70s said something that we thought was to us. And we looked back and he was like,

what are you looking at? And we see a lot of that. And I guess what I'm trying to get at is do you think that's just like us Brits being uncomfortable with it? Or is there something that's latent that's going on, that people are hurting, people are struggling.

People don't feel like the American dream is reality, but actually he's becoming more of a dream at this point. Do you get any sense of what I'm talking about? Yeah, no, the country's deeply broken. And we wouldn't have had a president like Biden if it weren't. I mean, and I think that, you know, one of the things that was so frustrating about the Biden administration is people like me

kept saying, this economy doesn't work. It's great for me. You know, I have investments, the stock market is doing great. But the way prices are going up, the inflation, is destroying people's savings. And so people are sitting down and they, on their plate at dinner is less food.

And so help me, God, the people on the networks are going, the economy is great. I don't know why people are complaining. People are going, wait, here's my plate. Here's your face, you know, making a zillion dollars on TV. And you're telling me my plate is full and my plate is empty. And I just wouldn't go like, is nobody, Does nobody care about these guys?

And the answer is no. They don't care. They just care about their little, you know, enclave. And they're so shocked, like the people in the movie business are so shocked that nobody's going to the movies. And it's like, why? Because you suck, you people. You don't pay attention. You know, the old guys would come in, those old Jews who built, you know, who built Hollywood, would come and say, what does the audience want? Oh, they want a Catholic priest.

Oh, they want a Catholic priest. Give my Catholic priest. They love that, you know. He just wanted to make things that people wanted to buy. These guys are like, you know, oh, you don't like seeing, you know, a black and white couple. Every couple's going to be black and white. You think like, now that's entertainment, you guys, you know. So I think that, yes, there's a lot of anger.

And the economy is in serious trouble. We are in such debt. You know, when they always say that the formula is when you're servicing your debt, when servicing your debt is more expensive than the money you pay for defense. That's when your country collapses. And that happened to us only about a year. ago, two years ago, something like that. And I think that that's government spending, you know, because I'm getting taxed 50%. I mean, if you taxed George Washington 15%, he would show up at your house.

Like, guys in bloody feet and they blow your head off, you know. I know, that's gratitude for you. And every time I would hear Joe Biden say, you know, pay your fair share, you know, like I would think, fair share of what? What am I paying my fair share up? I say, you're not helping anybody. You're not making anybody's life better, you know? Why should I pay 50? Why should I pay you to do what you're doing? You're doing. And now we see with Elon Musk, we see, I was right. They're not doing anything.

So all of that stuff sucks the air out of the economy. And what I think Trump is doing, why I think the stock market is fluctuating and all this is, the stock market doesn't care whether it's getting its money from Washington or from, you know, General Motors. They don't care where the money is coming from. But in fact, it matters that we make stuff and the stuff is good. And I think that's what Trump is trying to transition. Trump is trying to work out.

If industry comes back and it's so mechanized that people still don't have jobs, then we'll really have a problem. But if you bring back jobs and if you bring back, you know, creativity and if we actually get off the planet and start building things out in space, which I think would be great, then I think it'll change. You know, the country is stagnant because our idea has been stagnant. I mean, this is one of the things. When I was in Britain, it always used to bother me.

I loved living in Britain, first of all, let me say, the people especially. But the buildings are beautiful and all this stuff. But I used to think, like, if everything is a landmark and you can't change anything, essentially you're dead, right? I mean, you've got to build new things. There's got to be creative. You're so American. He's also right.

Yeah, after a while, you're a museum, right? Yeah. And so that's the left. Like, oh, you can't build that. That'll make the air smoking. the air will get smoky will invent some technology that cleans it up. You know, you have too many cars, you can't breathe in L.A. You invent the catalytic converter, and suddenly the smoke goes away, you know?

It's like human ingenuity is, there's no bottom to it, you know. So it's like, oh, don't use the oil. You'll use it up. No, you won't. You know, it wasn't oil to begin with. It was dinosaur bones. We turned it into oil. We'll turn something else into oil, you know.

You have to have confidence and you have to have innovation. And the only person who's thinking like that is Elon Musk. And I think he's now on the right side for that. That's why he loves Trump. Because Trump is a guy who goes like, yeah, that's a good idea. Let's do that, you know. Like a turning point in the election from me was when they took a mugshot of Donald Trump.

And he looked at and said, let's put that on a t-shirt. That's my guy. I'm free. So I think that you're absolutely right about this. The country is seriously broken, economically and in terms of where the money is going. And we're going to have to reform Social Security. Nobody wants to bite that bullet, but that's going to have to happen.

Medicare, they'll have to reform them. And if the government would spend less and regulate less and let the corporations do what they do, I think we start to build things again, you know. And I'm not a no-government guy. I believe government can stop. You know, I don't think eight-year-old should be at, lacking factories, I think. But I do think that innovation and freedom and capitalism are great tools for building. And I have a very weird approach to capitalism. I think it is the greatest

engine of wealth and creativity ever invented. And I think it ruins everything. And so I think it would be wise if the right would sort of throw the Ayn Rand crap overboard and start to say, yeah, You know, one thing that's good to have with capitalism is Christianity. You know, it's a good idea to start to think, well, okay, I don't mind how many gazillions of dollars Elon Musk has, but I mind that this guy has nothing. You know, can we work that out somehow? It doesn't have to be from taking his stuff away. But let's all kind of figure out how we make it so nothing guy can eat and live and have dignity, you know.

I think those are all important things. But capitalism is still, you know, even though it turns us all into consideration, consumers and you know, it's still this great thing and we should we should have more freedom. What you had under Biden and Biden is just the continuation of Obama was graft. They took our money and they gave it to some guy who said, yeah, I'll build fans and fans will power the world. Yeah. And here's and here's a million dollars for your campaign, you know, just graft. I mean, they can't do that.

They can't store the energy that they make with wind turbines and solar power to power a city the size of this. You can power one of those little things that walks on the table, you know, like a little wind-up toy. You can power with solar energy. But for real energy, we need fossil fuels. We need nuclear. We need all those things. So let people compete and build new things, you know. And I'm really excited, actually, that you were talking about culture because there's, I think, a real cultural shift happening at the moment.

Yes. And I think we've seen that, actually, with a new snowwife. Yeah, this is very profound. Yes. And I haven't seen the film yet. So I'm only talking about, yeah. Yeah, but let's go into it because as somebody who loves movies and culture, almost as much as you, I've been reading a lot about it,

and I found it incredibly interesting. It's incredibly interesting. So for people who don't know, they remake Snow, they're remaking all the classic Disney things as live action films. But they're kind of ruining them and doing it because of woke, you know, because of everything like, so Bell and Beauty and the Beast, which is a wonderful cartoon. I mean, it's just a fantastic Disney.

movie. Suddenly, she's kind of, I don't know, sexless, and she doesn't, you know, you fall in love of the beast because he's manly. That's why what beauty and the beast is about. So they start to make Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. And first of all, the star, Zegler, I can't remember. Rachel Zegler. She's a loudmouth bitch. I mean, she's just like, you know. Cutting edge diplomatic analysis. It's like, you know, you have a, you have a, you have a, you have a God-given talent, entertain us, and shut the hell up. You know, that's a. then you have Galgadoo. So the first thing they, and she's lovely and all of a sudden,

the first thing they do is they come out and say, well, this is not going to be the old Snow White where the handsome prince comes, and you go like, so you mean it's not going to be Snow White? You know, the most popular cartoon ever made. Still like one of those 10 most highest grossing films ever made. So they start out with the feminism. That's the first thing.

Then the dwarves are a problem, like, what are these dwarves? You can't have dwarves. Are they going to make them magical creatures? Well, Peter Dinklage, who played Tyrion in Game of Thrones, he said, you know, oh, we're back to dwarves again, oh, no. And then they just can the whole thing from what I understand. I don't want to minimize, so to speak,

Peter Dinklish's defliction. So. Andrew, so far, I said that. He said, women are hysterical, and he called the... Rachel Zegler. Loudmouth bitch. Apart from that, he's a very diplomatic gentle guy. But however, however, Peter Dinklage,

you know, dwarfism is an affliction, and I'm sure it's giving him a lot of trouble in life. He's the luckiest dwarf who ever was born on Earth. The greatest romantic lead. He's a dwarf actor. The greatest romantic lead of the decade is a dwarf in Game of Thrones. It's the

greatest part. Who would want to play that part? He's the only guy who can play it. He gets the job. A little gratitude would be nice. It's like, yes, it's an affliction, but kids, you can rise above your influxes. Wouldn't that have been beautiful thing to say? Instead, he's complaining about Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Anyway, so they

step on every landmine. They can possibly step on and Gallagodeau supports Israel, which on the left they hate Israel, you know, so that's a problem. And so everything goes wrong. Now, stop and think about this for a minute, all right? Snow White and the Seven Doors. Who wrote Snow White and the Seven Doors? Women. Fairy tales, the grim fairy tales come from women. They're the stories that women told their children. That's what they are. It is the collected artistic consciousness of women from a time when women were not asked anything and couldn't write, you know. And it was collected by the Brothers Grimm, good for them.

But this is like a legacy that our mothers, our four mothers, send us through these fairy tales. They've been with us for over a thousand years. They speak the wisdom of mothers, which let me tell you, as someone who is married to one, I will tell you, it is the wisdom of the world because they see people getting made, not just physically. They see them getting made spiritually. They are in, so to speak, the wisdom. matrix, to a little Latin pun, they're in the matrix of human creation. They know human nature

really well, and they're telling these stories to help people deal, their children deal with the world as it is. If we've come to a point where we can't make fairy tales without everybody saying, no, no, no, you can't say that. We've come to a point where people are denying the deepest truths about human beings. And that is exactly what woke is. That is exactly what woke is. It is a a denial of the deepest, simplest truths of what it means to be a human being. And so the fact that they couldn't make snow white, where she was snow white, her skin is white as snow, and that's supposed to be pretty. And, you know, the stepmother is unhappy because she's getting old and she's not as beautiful as this way.

And she goes and she finds these dwarves who are kind of like, you know, they're kind of like children, but they're not children. And it's sort of about what it's like to be a mom, you know, but it's also that they're, their childhood is kind of encapsulated, their childhood and adulthood are kind of encapsulated in this one moment. You know, it's a fairy tale. It's not real life.

It's a fairy tale. The fact that we can't do that is a ban on truth and the deepest truth, not like factual truth. And so I think that that's why, in my opinion, for the last five, I'll say five to ten years because I'm not sure where it starts, there's been no art in this country. There have been no good stories,

except, of course, my novel. But, you know, the TV shows have been crap. They were great from about 2000 to about 2014 or so. Novels, not that interesting. Music has been bad. Why? Because all of that stuff is about the soul, and we're not allowed to talk about the soul

because it offends the left, and the left has a cultural monopoly. And so Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, to me, is just like, make the film. And if people complain, they complain, but the kids will show up. It's a really profound point. And there's something else I found really interesting

when I was reading about this movie is the signature song from the original Snow White was, Someday My Prince Will Come. Yes, yes. Which talks about hope. It talks about love. It talks about one day meeting somebody who you are going to have a union with.

You're going to have children. You're going to be able to see the next generation, my prince. It's a romantic yearning. Yeah. Which everybody has. Everybody has, right? But they scrapped the soul.

Of course, because that's essentially saying that women need men. And men need women. And we're here for each other, and that's what we're here for. That's what it's saying. And that is the central idea that they're trying to destroy. You know what? Look, there's not one scrap of scientific evidence that men can become women or women men,

or that it helps children who are having children who are having some kind of gender dysphoria to mutilate them. There's no science that says this. There's no evidence. We had this guy, I swear to God, this guy was a Batman super villain. That guy, Rachel, he was in the health department. His name was Richard Levine, and he called himself Rachel Levine, and he walked around in his dress with pearls and talked to his flutie voice,

and that was supposed to turn him into a woman. Did you ever, did you guys see this? They made him an admiral, which I thought was hilarious. You know what, Andrew, I'm so. used to seeing that stuff now, it almost like doesn't, it almost doesn't register anymore. So he would go into these hearings and he would say, anybody who wants

to find out the very sturdy science supporting gender care for children just has to come to my office. No one ever came to her office and she had nothing. She had nothing. She, he's a guy. He had nothing. He had no science because there is no science that shows

that. The people who get those operations get more depressed than they were before. They commit suicide at fantastic rates. because it's impossible. They're defying reality. I don't care how people live, you know. I don't want to have to use words that they tell me to use. I don't want to have to use a pronoun to misdescribe somebody.

And I don't want to lose my job because I say Richard Levine is a guy, you know. But I don't care what he does in his spare time. But that guy, to me, was a supervillain. He's sitting around, I think he belonged to Arkham Asylum, you know, in the Batman, because, like, he's sitting around going, yes, I'm going to castrate all the children, you know. So that is the target. The target is this love that men and women have. And I believe that it's rooted in misogyny.

The first science fiction novel is Frankenstein. And people always say that Frankenstein is about a guy who takes the power away from God to make a human being. It's not true. He takes the power away from women to make a human being. And if you read the book closely, that's what it's about. The first dream he has after he makes the monster Frankenstein is he's, thinks he sees his fiance, and as she comes toward him, she turns into his mother, and she's dead, and she's crawling with that. I'm going from memory. I mean, I'm getting this exactly right.

But it's about getting rid of women. And if you follow, I write a chapter about this in my book, The Truth and Beauty. And if you follow that through science fiction, almost all science fiction in the moment when we transferred from a mechanical society to a technological, society. Go back and look at the horror movies. It's Carrie about having your period. It's about the exorcist, which is also about a girl having a period, really. It's the matrix, you know, where basically, you know, everything, the matrix becomes a machine instead of a womb. It's all about women's bodies and how horrific they are. And we just did one the other day. The substance is about how horrible, you know, how ugly women's bodies are when they get older and stuff like this.

we have this horror of women because they tie us to responsibility and reality and the earth and consequences you know you the funny thing about those women you just want to sleep with them but they keep coming back with these babies and saying who's going to take care of the baby it's annoying you know and so i think that this we're really seeing a hatred of women and i think um it's coming to fruition. It's been there for a long time. And I think it's coming to fruition in this idea that, what do you mean you don't want a man on your hockey team? What's wrong with you? You know, what kind of sick thing is that? What do you mean a guy can't cut? He says he's a woman. Why can't he come into your locker room? I can't imagine anything more disrespectful to a 13-year-old girl,

let alone a grown woman. And so I think that there is something really sick going on about women. And I think women are the, I think it, I'm an anti-femin. Do you want to talk about, you know, being politically incorrect? I do not believe in feminism. I believe in that I believe women should have choices. But I think that this is a society that should elevate motherhood and homemaking. So that people want that choice because I think it's one of the things that women are especially good at. And I think it's the center of every society.

I think a society without homes is not going to be a free society. And it's also as well, when you listen to Rachel Zegger, regular's interview, the one which went viral, and I'm going to misquote. So, but the genuinely, generally, do that because I don't want to get through. But generally, the, the, the, what she said was, Snow White doesn't need her prince to come because she is going to be the natural born leader. Right. And so this idea of a prince saving her and her falling in love is an archaic idea from 1937 when the film was made. Right. That is what she said. You said you were bringing a modern edge to it on stage.

What do you mean by that? I just mean that it's no longer 1937. And we absolutely wrote a snow white. She's not going to be saved by the prince. She's not going to be saved by the prince. And she's not going to be dreaming about true love. She's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be. And the leader that her late father told her that she could be if she was fearless,

fair, brave and true. And so it's just a really incredible story for, I think, young people everywhere to see themselves in. And then you listen to that and you think, Fair enough if you feel that, Rachel, that's fine. But that is talking to a very small minority of women who want to be CEOs and want to run Fortune 500 companies, of which I'm sure there are a few. But the vast majority of women simply don't want that.

And I think to me, when I listen to her say things like that, it's a misrepresentation of female and what most women want. Yes, and when they say, you know, when feminists, The first thing they always say is, you know, we need to have better child care. No, you need to have an economy where a man can support a woman so she can take care of the children. And, I mean, this is the big thing. Feminism arises after the industrial revolution, because the industrial revolution gutted women of their economic power. You know, women used to have these cottage industries, like they can close, you know.

And so they were huge economic powers. And then they lost that. And then they got kind of elevated to the angel in the house. house, which, you know, that's not a human thing, right? They weren't angels in the house. There were moms and wives who also had interests and wanted economic respect and all that stuff. I think the computer has a possibility of bringing that back. I mean, my daughter is a mom. That's the first and foremost thing in her life. She loves being a mom. She loves being a wife. But she also has a computer and she has a business and she has a podcast and she does these wonderful stuff, you know.

So she has a full life. And I think that that we, this society, and I don't know, if this is true in Europe. I feel American society basically denigrates mothers, who I think are key to human life. I mean, I don't just think that they are important as placekeepers, like, you know, oh, somebody's got to take care of the kids. I think that they're important as soul shapers. It's the soil we grow in. They're the soil we grow in. Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah. And I suppose the question is, Andrew, this is curious for me because it's sort of an interesting moment, right? I imagine it's not why I would have gone into production long before,

the vibe shift that we're seeing now. You know Hollywood better than most people. Do you think there is a come-to-Jesus moment going on there? You know, I see Bill Maher. He's the kind of the conduit between these two worlds very often, I feel. He's certainly adjusting his perspective. Gavin Newsom is having all these right-wingers on his podcast. you know, fun in in quite an amusing way.

I hope they check the, see, they still have their watch when they get on. Well, you know, I take your jib, but I have to say, as an outside observer, it seems like a very effective politician to me, very effective. He's very sleazy and everything he touches the crowd. Well, we're agreeing. No, okay. He will be very convincing to lots of people while also being sleazy and in some ways dishonest and whatever. But we'd love to have him on and, you know, test those.

things, right? But I see some vibe shift going on, but is there a vibe shift world in which you see Hollywood waking up and go, oh my God, we've done this woke crap and actually it's dumb and let's just make good stuff? Is that coming? What I think is coming. What I think is coming is coming is a world in which people without the kind of billions that studios have can compete with them. because that's the only thing that's going to change in this competition. Like, if you, if you, I don't know if you saw the Oscars, nobody else did. I don't know why you would, but like, nobody saw those moves. You know, wicked they saw, you know, it's like, but nobody, the rest of them, it's like, you know, you're giving a musical about a transgender gangster gangster.

I mean, really? You know, what, who woke up one morning and thought, I know what everybody's going to, you know, they're going to be lining up around the block. So there's this opening and the right historically has been crap about filling these openings, you know. I don't see any reason. Like I always say, like, why is there no one who's willing to make a movie about a woman who wants a husband to be a mom? You know, why is nobody? I talk about this on my show and my podcast and I get these women writing to me and their husband's writing. My wife burst into tears because you're the first person to give her dignity and all the side.

I think, really, moms? You know, and I always say, if you don't think moms are important, go up to somebody who's a guy who's bigger than you and insult his mother. And when you wake up six weeks later from your coma that he's put you in, you know, you'll realize moms are important, you know. So why is nobody willing to make that movie? Why is nobody willing to make a movie where the businessman comes to town and the enemy is the environmental protection agency as it was in Ghostbusters?

You know, people forget that. The bad guy is the government guy. you know, why don't they have the guts? And I don't think that that's going to come from within because they're soulless, guttless, guttless people. I think that it's going to happen when me and a couple... But they care about money. They care about money.

And if ticket sales and not there. See, this is the big secret. Ted Cruz, the senator, once asked me, what do you know that nobody else knows? And I said, they don't care about money. They care about, they care about prestige, they care about love. They care about, you know, being...

Agulation. Adulation, the awards. You don't win Oscars by making money. You don't win girls. You don't win the pictures. It's an internal status competition within that world. And that's why they're all out competing each other on transwokeness. Exactly.

So what you need is to take their money away through competition. So a time is coming. And it's almost here. I mean, it's like if it's five years away, that's going to be a long time. When me and a bunch of friends can sit down and make a moment. movie. And it'll be just as good as their movies, almost, maybe. You know, you won't need voice actors, you know, it'll all be, you won't even need actors. It'll be all AI. They can almost do it now. And when that happens, they're cooked, you know, because, yeah, they'll still be able to make

Marvel comic movies, but that string has kind of run out. If you want to see good drama, you know, I'll be making it or somebody like me who's 20, you know, whatever. It's like, And that'll change it. That will change it. You know, the Internet is young, right? It's not really, it hasn't hit its peak yet. What we're seeing is we're seeing kind of the Martin Luther moment. You know, we're seeing that moment when somebody says, you know, not only can I hammer these things on the church door,

but I can print these up and spread them over all of Europe. Well, it did cause two centuries of religious war, actually. That's the bad version of it. You're right about that, by the way, and I'm not unaware of that. That's the bad version. Hopefully we get it right this time and only have one century. There's a positive end of the interview.

Look, I think, you know, I think what I love about our conversations is that ultimately what you're pointing to is that two wolves inside me thing. Yeah. And we could go the crazy route that the internet seems to encourage and reward.

But we could also go the not crazy route. And that's the choice, I think, as a culture and the societies around the world we face. Do we respond? to the things that have been happening that we don't like with angle or with creativity, with destructive or constructive. That's the choice that we face. I think that's what I'm really hearing from.

So I'm going to take this opportunity to plug my new book, which is coming out in May. That was smooth. I have a nonfiction book. I write nonfiction books about culture and religion because I think that we've been told that you can't read God. You know, that art has nothing to do with God. I think the opposite is true.

So I wrote a book called The Kingdom of Cain, and it's about famous murders and how they keep reappearing in various novels and films. So a good example is Ed Gein, who in the 1950s killed a couple of women and dug up other women and used them to build a woman's body that he could wear around the house. And he inspired Robert Block to write, the novel Psycho,

and the novel Psycho became what's one of the greatest films in American history? and he also inspired Silence of the Lambs. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which then inspired the entire slasher thing. So it's like the entire slasher genre comes out of this one guy. And it's a study of how art takes evil and turns it into light and shows you what's at the heart of it

so that you can taste it and sort of say like, oh yeah, because we live in an evil world. We live in a world, you know, people do terrible things to each other. And people like us sit around and we live kind of nice lives. And we forget, you know, that in a lot of the world, people enslave children and abuse children and kill each other and do all kinds of terrible things. And God bless us for not being part of that. But it means that that's the world that we have to operate in and you can either ignore it. And what art does is it transforms it.

And so what I see is a new, what I hope for. And it is just a hope, you know, it's like, is I see a new more honest look at human nature. A world in which Snow White can't be made is a world that has blindfolded itself to human nature. But a world in which true, honest art can be made is a world in which human nature is shown to be part of a greater design. So you have, you know, Shakespeare writes Macbeth. Macbeth does horrible, I mean, horrible things happen in that play. And yet it's insanely beautiful. It's an insanely beautiful play.

And when Macbeth makes his final speech, and he says, you know, everything is nothing, it's just a tale told by an idiot and all that. We understand that that's not true. We understand that he has detached himself from the moral order. And then you start going back and say, well, what is the moral order? And you find out that it has to do with male and female. It has to do with his wife saying, you know, unsex me. And then I'll be free of this, you know, milk of humankind as it flows through women, you know.

And you think, oh, they're undoing creation. And then you go back and say, well, what is creation? Where does that come from? And it starts to reveal itself to you. And so I think that's what I'm hoping for because the arts, when I started talking about stuff like this, it was because the arts had become a source of ignorance and stupidity. And that, if Snow White and Seven Dwarfs is the bottom of that barrel, as I so hope it is, then we begin to turn around.

We begin to talk about men and women are again and how wonderful it is that things are made like this and that the bad guys are the guys trying to stop us, not the guys trying to elevate us above what it means to be a human being. So, you know, who was it? Sultanizun who said beauty will save the world? Maybe it's Dostoeiavsky. And, and you know, I don't believe in that in a kind of airy, fairy way. But one thing, and this is kind of what the kingdom of Kane is all about, is if you can take something as tragic, as sad, as miserable, as cosmically catastrophic as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and turn it into a statue as beautiful as the Pieta, then you have to ask yourself, what is God doing with the design of this world?

Because the world is so ugly and it's so full of pain, and so full of evil, how can there be beauty that comes out of that? And I think in the arts, you actually get an answer to that, a little answer to that big question. And I have a lot of hope that if the arts come back, the West will come back. Because let's face it, you guys are as much trouble as we are. And so, and I think, you know, I think that a lot of this is this cultural death that we've been through, and hopefully we'll go through a cultural resurrection. Andrew, what a pleasure.

Always great to see you guys. Final question always the same. What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be? Before Andrew answers the final question, at the end of the interview, make sure you go to our substack. The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this. Can we now have a female villain? Or is it now sexist to show that women can be pieces of crap as well?

What's the best Disney movie of the past 20 years? What makes that movie special? Did you expect at this point in your public life to have to face off with so much anti-Semitism from both the left and the right? Well, let's see. We actually did talk about God, which I know that. I can always see your faces. When we're British, so it's a match story.

Even religious people in Britain. I know, I know. They got it. React with horror. You talked about love. We did that with love as well. You know, I'm not sure this answers your question, but I think it does a little bit. J.D. Vance made that speech to the Europeans, and everybody bounced on it, pounced on him.

And I think it was a really important speech. Because I got a lot of letters from Britain, from my friends over there, Trump was reelected. What do you, you know, explain yourself, you know? And I said, you guys move in a country where a person can be threatened with arrest for silently praying in his home and you're preaching to Americans about freedom. When Britain, when people in Britain are being threatened with arrest for praying silently in their home, that's a threat to freedom everywhere. If it happens here, the threat has been carried out because this is it. This is the last Island, you know. I mean, like, you know, we want you guys back. We want you to come back.

And so I think that the thing that people aren't talking about is everybody is yelling at Donald Trump for alienating NATO. But I think Donald Trump is actually trying to save NATO and he's trying to save Europe. And I think Europe needs saving. And the first thing it has to do is start to realize that it's not America. It's not a multicultural society. It's actually a unicultural society. The French French and the British are British and Spanish are Spanish. And I think that you should preserve that to some degree. And I don't mean in a racist way, but I just mean in a sort of proud way of what you guys built. I mean, Europe is still a font of cultural wisdom and knowledge,

and it's all being suppressed for this one purpose. And so I think the thing that we have to talk about is, are we going to become, you hear people now saying, well, America is a Pacific nation, you know, which is true, right? We're big. We've got the... But I don't think we should let go of our source material. And I think that that relationship, I think America's relationship with Europe and Europe's

relationship with itself needs to be seriously studied and reformed. Andrew Cleveland, so great to have you back. Always great to chat. And the thing that's amazing about you is how prolific you are, because we're here once, like twice a year. Every time we talk to you, you've got a new book out. So I really recommend people check it out because they're always brilliant.

Head on over to Substack where we'll ask your questions, Tandre. Given the difference in popularity between books and watchable media like movies, TV shows and even animated online clips, would you recommend younger novelists get into different mediums other than books?