TRIGGERnometry - Why I Detransitioned - Exulansic

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

SPONSORED BY: *Ridge Wallet* Use Code “TRIGGER ” for 10% off your order at https://www.ridge.com/TRIGGER Exulansic is a detransitioner and former YouTuber who can be found at https://odysee.com/@Exulansic:d Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/​​​ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: [e-mail] Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/​​​ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My goal for documenting this is to show that these are extremely experimental, and we don't know what we're doing because we are trying to create function and create appearance in a person where that's not natural, whereas medicine is supposed to be about restoring a person's natural functioning and preserving it, not trying to put wings on someone to see if it works, which is essentially what we're doing. Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantine Kitten. And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

Our brilliant guest today has been banned from YouTube. So here is Exelancic. For Exelanac, welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. I've been really looking forward to this. It's great to have you on the show. I can tell you a lot of our fans, particularly the female ones, have been looking to this forward to this as well.

Tell us who are you. How are you where you are? Why is everyone so looking forward to hearing us interview you? So my name is Exelanzik, as you said, and I have been making content related to the transite guise for the past year. And the way that I make content is that I find largely personal narratives, and I respond to them point by point, and try to give a medical context for the horrific nightmares that they're living through and explain how these are very predictable. And I'm seeking to kind of educate the audience in a way that, I don't know if I'm

Have you ever told the show Darya? But I feel like my channel, my content mimics the show within that show called Sixthad World. So in any case, I also have made a lot of responses to the show, I Am Jazz. And the main star of that show had a vaginoplastity when he was 17 after having his puberty suppressed for many years. And then I also have been looking at the medical industry and specific doctors. and responding to their comments and their advertisements on TikTok and just generally attempting to raise the alarm, that these are very, very bad interventions that are being given to people

on the basis of their mental illness. And so I think a lot of people are excited to hear you interview me because they didn't realize that this was going on, or they live through it, or they narrowly missed falling into it and are grateful for that. And do you have some kind of personal connection with this issue? Yes, I do. I was trans-identifying for about four years in college.

I went to University of California, Berkeley, which is where Judith Butler teaches. And so I was very much steeped in gender ideology and the different interpretations on it. And so I've used that as a kind of a basis for talking about the more religious elements and the different doctrinal splits that have emerged between, like, what I've been calling trans-classic and the church of the non-binaries. So I was very much steeped in that. My social circle was steeped in that. I was a gender and women studies major.

And so I was, that was just my life for several years. And I watched some friends transition, and I saw the reality of it. And then I went to graduate school, and I studied a speech and language pathology. and part of that is studying pronouns and pronoun disorders. And so as a clinician, I treat pronoun disorders. I treat people who have had brain injuries and they can use other words, but they can't use pronouns anymore. And I want them to be safe at work.

I don't want them to be harassed at work when they get back into work. And these pronoun policies and expectations are very unreasonable and don't take disability into account. And before we get into the clinical aspect of it, let's just look at your journey. what made you identify as trans for four years? Was there a particular moment? Was there, or was it always a general discomfort with your body?

I feel like I had a general discomfort both with my body and with the social expectations that were put on me for being female. And then I also feel like from early childhood, that discomfort was largely rooted in an early childhood trauma, had a significant injury. and I think I just felt very alienated. And I think I looked for an explanation. And the explanation I landed on was it would be different if I was a boy.

And that was just kind of at the back of my mind and coming out in, you know, immature ways because I was a child. And then I grew up and got to college and was exposed to these ideas, was exposed to all these people saying, yeah, me too, we're the same. And it was just like, oh, okay, great. I can finally like pursue this in some way. and it was also just kind of the thing to do. Everyone was doing it. And you said everyone was doing it. So then how did it then move on to something more serious?

Did you have medical procedures? Did you take any type of, how can I put this, hormones in order to facilitate a transition? I took a kind of hormone to affect my, menstrual cycles, but I didn't take testosterone, fortunately, and I didn't do anything else, which is I'm so grateful for. So I didn't take anything that would permanently change me. And the reason I didn't is because I had a non-gender therapist, a real therapist, who was able to help me talk through my feelings about it as well as likely outcomes of pursuing a medical intervention. And I was able to really think about it with somebody that wasn't trying to push me

down the assembly line. And I was able to see that, like, you know, this is, this is, this would introduce so much unpredictable horror like into my life if I was good to pursue a surgery. So it was a process of talking about it with my therapist over a period of months. And as you can see, we're trying to take this conversation in a direction where people who are not clued up on this issue nearly as much as you are can understand what we're talking about because we've been talking about it for some time. But even we, I would certainly not consider ourselves experts on this era at all. So I suppose the sort of question that many people, people would be, many people would be asking because the general perception, I think,

among most people who are uninitiated in this issue is there are some people who feel that they are in the wrong body. They are not the sex in which they were physically born. And we as a society have come to a point where we now have the medical toolkit to support those people into making changes to their body that make them feel more comfortable. with who they are, quote, unquote. That would be, I think, the mainstream description of the trans position. What is incorrect about that view, in your opinion? Don't say everything.

I mean, the first thing is that to be born into a body, you need to believe in a material or some kind of immaterial essence that exists apart from the body. That can be then placed into the body. And that's generally considered a soul. And so we're dealing with a religious concept here to be born in the wrong body. And then the second part of that is like, well, medical science can now change it. My goal for documenting this is to show that these are extremely experimental. And we don't know what we're doing because we are trying to create function and create appearance in a person where that's not natural.

Whereas medicine is supposed to be about restoring a person's natural functioning and preserving it. not trying to put wings on someone to see if it works, which is essentially what we're doing. It's a great point. What effect do these therapies have? Particularly, you can talk about it from your own experience, but also the therapies that you, thank the Lord, avoided. So the one I needed, it turned out that I have a sensitivity to estrogen, and so I had noticed that. I had made inferences about it and I had I had wanted to to to address it. So I got very fortunate in that I was able to be observant and make make those kind of inferences and that I happened to also just have that sensitivity for an unrelated medical problem that I didn't know I had at

the time. And now I do. So I just you know it worked and I'm I'm glad that that was all I did. The testosterone, the thing about testosterone is that it is a very powerful anxiety reliever. and so I watched it work really, really well to relieve untreated anxiety issues in a person that I was close to. And it was the first thing they tried. And they didn't try anything else. And it did all these other changes to her. So those changes that are happening in the voice when you're taking testosterone and it makes

their voice drop, those changes are happening because those tissues are sensitive to testosterone and testosterone makes them grow. But your voice is not the only place those tissues exist. Those tissues are also in a lot of very. important organs like the heart. And so my concern is that we're, you know, we, we know that testosterone increases your risk of heart events. That's known. Men die earlier of causes. They don't, they don't, they don't just expire because that's what, what their due date had on them when they came out. So, so they die of specific ways and they typically die of heart problems. And, and it's well acknowledged

by these people that trans men are shortening their lifespans by doing this, by taking these drugs. And the theory is, well, it's not shorter than a regular man, which there's no evidence for and there's significant evidence against that claim. The fact remains they're giving these teenagers drugs that will shorten their lifespan and they know it for a mental health issue. And puberty blockers is something that we hear a lot and young people taking them. Now, obviously, I'm not a physician, but the moment that I hear that they're giving kids puberty blockers to stop them going through puberty is horrendous.

and awful. Could you explain a little bit of what it's like when you're on puberty blockers? And number two, not just that, what are the long-term implications of taking puberty blockers? Right. So puberty blockers are a class of drugs called ganadotropin releasing hormones or hormone analogs. And so the one that they give, that I'm most familiar with the Ruby Lupron, but they give several others now, is I believe 20 times as powerful as the version that your body makes. and the version that your body makes works by developing certain structures in the brain, which then release other hormones that cause the gonads to develop, which then release other hormones that cause the secondary sex characteristics to develop.

So basically we are putting the pollution in the water very far upstream from where it was, and more towns are going to be affected as a result. So the way that this hormone works in the body is that it has a pulsing release. that causes it to grow, kind of like how plants grow because of pulsing exposure to sunlight. You have day, night, day, night. It's pulsing. And so that pulsing is not happening if you use a puberty block or implant because it's a continuous slow release. And that's the way that they work, is that they interrupt the pulsation. That pulsing is a very complex pattern that changes according to things like time of day and time of year. So it's doing a lot. They're putting their brains

in a dark room so that they can't grow and leaving them there. And it causes profound implications. And so one thing I've talked about with IAM jazz a lot is that my suspicion is that the pee-reblocker implants warped the development of his hypothalamus. And we know that there's a, we can infer a lot about how drugs work or might work from comparing them to genetic disorders that do similar things. And there's a genetic disorder called Prater Willey syndrome, which Jazz Jennings does not have, of course.

There's no reason to think he has it. but I believe that they have induced similar effects by using a drug that mimics the hormone that is affected in that condition. And that hormone, that condition is caused by, it affects the gene that codes for gonadotropin releasing hormone. This causes damage to the hypothalamus's development and that causes overeating. And so jazz Jennings is really struggling with eating. He's very, very obese right now because he can't stop eating. and so that condition desensitizes basically the hypothalamus to oxytocin, so therefore they don't get the comforting reinforcement of the eating.

And why is it that we trivialize this Exelanic? Why is it that this is seen as something good that if a child is suffering from gender dysphoria, if you're putting them on puberty blockers, you're doing the right and kind thing, when what you are doing, and like you've just said yourself, is irreversibly damaging their body? Yeah. It's horrendous. It is.

And it affects their bone health, too, because you need those stex hormones, especially estrogen, to develop bone density, because, you know, your bones are growing. And when they grow, the volume and density is changing. And therefore, unless you have something to increase the rate that it can become dense, they will not become dense. And so we know that these lead to things like osteoporosis early in life, 20s and 30s, for kids that were put on them as children.

And not even for the years that they're putting them on them now for the puberty blockade. They're put just just for, you know, a few months for things like precocious puberty. And so I believe your question was why, why is it seen as so nice? There's been a huge propaganda push and there's a lot of money behind this telling people it's reversible. You know, you're, you're this way you're not forcing them to. go through their natural puberty, which is to me an acknowledgement that we're playing God here. We know that we're trying to change nature and we're not trying to heal. We're trying to actually control. And so, you know, I'm an atheist. I don't object to playing God on principle,

but here clearly it's causing a lot of harm. Hey, Francis, have you decided what to get your dad for Father's Day? Same thing as always. A couple of points down the dog and duck. Plus, a new Brexit means Brexit car sticker to replace the one I got him last year. Mate, Brexit was in 2016. Do you not think he might want something a bit more up to date? Like a new Ridge wallet? This is mine.

It's smooth, sleek, stylish and it can hold 12 cards and there's also a clip on the bag for cash as well. He's not going to create a bulge in your trousers like those bulky old wallet. It'll make your dad look like a top-level player. Great idea. He can also put his Brexit sticker on it, which means a problematic older ladies are going to love him.

Yeah, okay. The great thing about Ridge is that they give you a lifetime guarantee, which means if you want you can have just one wallet for the rest of your life. Ridge is so confident in their product, they'll give you 45 days to test drive their wallet. That means you can get the wallet, use it, and if you don't like it, you can return it in 45 days. Unlike Brexit.

Because Ridge is such great guys, they're going to give you 15% off and free worldwide shipping and return. returns. That's 15% off and free worldwide shipping and returns. To take advantage of this incredible offer, go to ridge.com forward slash trigger. That's ridge.com forward slash trigger and use our special promo code, which is of course trigger. Why do you think this has been mainstreamed so rapidly to the point now where I think a lot of people, the version of the story I I presented to you at the beginning about how there are some people who are born in the wrong body. How did that become such a mainstream thing to the point where we've had laws change to accommodate

this version of events? We've had, you know, we have the Tavistock Clinic here in the UK that was doing a lot of this type of stuff. How has this become such a mainstream thing? It's a really good question because it seems like people should know better. I feel like we are living through something similar to the satanic panic of the 80s. And so there's kind of a moral panic here that there are all these kids that were that were destined to self-harm or in their lives because of our lack of recognition. And now we have a chance to do the right thing. And so there's kind of a moral panic.

And there's a mass hysteria too. And the mass hysteria, the mass delusion is that you can be born in the wrong body. You know, this idea that there is this class of people that need these things. And you don't agree with that. you don't think anyone can be born in the wrong body? No, I think you're born as the body you are. I think that your consciousness is an emergent property of your brain and is secondary to the brain.

I don't think that your consciousness is placed there by a deity. People can disagree. I don't think that a secular government can write laws on the basis of the theory that there are souls that can be in the wrong body, and therefore I need to use pronouns that pretend that I believe that they have a different kind of soul than they clearly seem to have based on their body. because they don't believe in souls. Do you think part of the problem,

exoantic, is this. I think it's fair to say, and I think the vast majority of people would agree, that in the 80s and the 70s, we made a dreadful, dreadful mess of gay rights, where gay men and gay women went through a horrendous time. They went through a horrendous time.

It was awful, and there was a real struggle for them to be acknowledged on the same level as other people in society. And thank God, the vast majority of people now see them that way. Do you think people are looking at this trans rights issue and thinking to themselves, hang on, we messed up so badly before that this is a new gay rights movement. I don't want to be seen as one of those horrible people telling gay people that they had no right to exist.

Yeah, yeah. So it's waving them through. They're saying, we don't want to go through that again. Hurry up, just come on in. But what we're dealing with, though, is a group that is aggressively mimics. making the gay rights struggle, copying our language, copying our experience, and then turning around and saying that we are bigots for not wanting to sleep with the opposite sex. That that is transphobic and that we're bad for saying that we only want to sleep with females. The reason I started speaking out was there was a huge debacle on TikTok last March where a guy

had posted a video saying that he was only attracted to females who were born female. And he was calling it super straight. and the whole app went nuts and we had all of these adults pretending that they had never heard of homosexuality and so I just started being like speaking out and be like no I my sexual orientations is like a like a dowsing route it's like I can tell

I can tell that they're not women and I'm not going to pretend that I think that they're women but isn't the problem as well that there are trans people you know there are people who have suffering from some from gender dysphoria who feel a severe discomfort comfort in their own body. And what is happening with the politicization of their identity is these people are being

turned into political pawns, which is just making the entire situation worse for them. Yeah, I agree with that, that there are people that would just prefer to, like, live their lives and they might want to dress in a way that is gender non-conforming or adopt a non-traditional name or this or that. I don't think it's ethical for doctors to participate by attempting to medicalize a mental illness in that way, despite the known effects on organs. And I've said this too, that some of these people, you know, there's a lot of propaganda push that you need specific trans rights and trans people aren't protected in employment,

trans people aren't protected in housing. I totally disagree with that. I feel like they're already clearly well protected under many examples. existing categories, including religion, disability, sex, and sexuality. And so I don't understand why these forces are propagandizing trans people that they don't have rights they could assert if their landlords discriminating against them under those categories. So I think that they are manipulating mentally ill people into thinking that they are much

more oppressed and much more marginalized than they are. And these are people who are already very anxious, perhaps because a doctor gave them a drug that blocked testosterone and they're male and they need testosterone. and that makes them anxious. Because we know that lack of testosterone makes men anxious. You keep, and this is going to sound like a stupid question, but I'm asking it in order, knowing that there will be a lot of people asking it

in their heads watching and listening to this, which is you keep referring to gender dysphoria and mental illness. Yes. Why do you say that? Because, again, the mainstream narrative would be, well, people are just born this way, and this is how they feel in the,

side. Yeah. So the thing is that that we're also told, though, that this is a situation where the person can be reasonably expected to self-harm or try to end their life if we don't intervene. And mentally well, people aren't trying to hurt themselves or end their life. That's not a mentally well thing to do. It's a very, very confused, self-sabotaging thing to do. And I'm not saying that I don't understand what it's like to feel that way. I certainly do. But it's not not a sign of mental health to want to do that. And so if I'm told that this group has this extremely high likelihood, 41% I've been told of wanting to try to do that, that's a sign of mental distress. And so when you have any sort of chronic mental distress that really impacts

your life, to me, that's when it rises to the level of a mental illness. And there's, unless you have good evidence that you have a physiological problem, you should treat it as a mental illness. Well, I suppose the argument from people who are in favor of helping people transition is that the transitioning alleviates the distress. And, you know, we've had people on the show, we've had a lot of trans people on the show who are gender critical, but we've also had at least one person on the show who had transitioned and was very happy to have transitioned. So the argument, I suppose, goes, is there are some people like that for who, who, Not just one, in fact, but several.

So Buck Angel, for example, who was, I think he's very happy to have transitioned. India Willoughby again. So isn't it the case that for some people, this is a solution that solves their problems? So there's a couple things with that. One would be the existence of the placebo effect. If you take a substance and expect it to help you,

you will likely experience some subjective benefit from that. and placebo effect is a real chemical effect. We can block it with certain drugs that, I believe the ones that block opiate receptors will block the placebo effect. There's other drugs that will potentiate it. So it's a real effect. So we have that issue that these drugs may just be placebos. Maybe they just needed a regular placebo because they're mentally ill.

And so they needed to believe that they were being treated for their non-illness in order to not experience the symptoms of the mental illness. And so at that point, you're like, is it justified, could there have been a better placebo that didn't cause them to have heart disease and die several years earlier than they would have? Or in Buck Angel's case, I believe Buck had a sepsis from the vaginal atrophy from the testosterone and also nearly died from that. And so there's a huge community pressure against regretting these interventions. And so they don't. They vote very vocally are very happy about them if they want to remain a church member in good standing.

So and then finally, as I mentioned, things like testosterone. estrogen, they can have, they're having metabolic effects in the brain. We know that and we know that they can interact with anxiety and other things. So it's very possible that they are treating a mental illness, a physical illness and or using it as a psychotropic mental illness treatment and anxiety reliever. And that that's why their life is better on it. And again, we're back to was there a better way that didn't cause these other problems that are then going to burden society with these issues? Like having to take care of some of these complications in a nursing home in a person who's, you know, several decades down the road and these problems didn't go away that they acquired in their 20s. I interviewed somebody that underwent vaginaloplasty to, or sorry, a phalloplastia to children's hospital and vaginactomy.

And the vaginactomy was so botched that this person ended up with a colostomy back from it. Wow. Right. So based on that then, am I hearing you correctly? that you, if it were up to you, people would not be transitioning. They would be getting some kind of talking therapy to help them deal with the mental illness of feeling like they're in the wrong body. But they wouldn't be getting any physical or hormonal help, if you like, if you can call it help. So I would not agree with that because we use medications to treat mental illnesses at times.

What I want is for these patients to have the full range of options and not be told that this specific mental illness means that only this one specific treatment will help because there's not really any evidence for that. We've never done a placebo-controlled double-blinded trial of whether mastectomies make you feel better because we can't do a sham mastectomy. We can't pretend to do a mastectomy and see if they feel better anyway. They're going to know. The doctors are going to know. We can't do a double-blinded trial. These aggressive radical interventions are justified in terms of cancer because we know. that the cancer is about to kill them, so it's okay to do these things that don't have double-blinded

control trials because there's still a reasonable reason to think it'll help. We don't have that for here. We're trying to cut out the feelings cancer. It doesn't work. But whereas if they're getting a comprehensive intervention, hormonal modification may be a part of it. I do not believe that cross-sex hormones at cross-sex doses are clinically justified for mental illness. No, I don't think there's any evidence for that. However, I know that for my case that I personally benefited from a hormonal.

intervention that was not across sex hormone to modify something that turned out to be a physical illness. And so I wouldn't bar it wholesale because these hormones have profound effects in the brain for both sexes. Even the sex hormones that are associated with your sex can be affecting your mental health. So I wouldn't want to say that having gender dysphoria precludes certain options either, but these options are bad. These options are very bad and unjustified. And was there a specific moment for you where you were in your period as a trans person where you actually thought, hang on, this is a right, there's something not right here that basically put you on the path to recovery, as it were, mentally? Yeah, it was a few things.

One was that the speed that someone I was very close with went from her first appointment with the gender therapist to a mastectomy. It was very concerning. It was about eight months. I felt like that was way too fast. At her age, she was like 21 and had no history of it. Like it was all, it was like a totally rapid onset because she met me of all things. And I introduced her to the concept. And then she had a head injury. She's hit by car. And so everyone knew, everyone, all of her doctors knew, because she went to the hospital. She was overnight. It was well known. and they still let her go through with it a couple months later. You know, she needed actual therapy to deal with the head injury.

I do brain injury therapy now. She needed a concussion therapy, and they just waved her through. And I watched that recovery. I was very close right in the aftermath, watched her drain her blood bags, watched her chest feed a bag that was attached to it through a tube. And it just was, I could just tell it just wasn't right. This person was engaged in a pursuit of religious ecstasy. And then it got the real turning point for me was when she got really upset that she came across a study for an HIV drug that was about preventing transmission between gay men, or men who were sleeping with men at least.

And she thought that she deserved to be in the trial because she was on testosterone and that made her a man now. and it was just so unreasonable. I was like, no, you're not male, and it's really important for drug research that we have a male research trial and a female research trial, because when you treat females as a kind of male, females die from the drugs,

because we're not men. We're categorically different. Our biology is very different. Wow. And what happened to this person? We kind of a lost touch after I went off to grad school. we tried to stay in touch a little bit, but then lost touch. So I'm not exactly sure what happened to her after that.

I know that she went on to kind of get stuck working for some trans organization, I think. I worry about her. I don't know what happened after that. And these people who transition and then decide to detransition, what are their lives like Ex-Lancic? I know they're a broad group, but on the whole, are there any patterns or correlations that you notice? Well, the ones that I've talked to, there's certainly a lot of sadness about the permanent changes to their voice and, or in some cases, more semi-permanent because it really, it's very unpredictable, what kinds of sensitivity you have in your voice.

And they're giving them very random doses, some of these doctors for random lengths of time. So it can be very unpredictable how it'll affect them. and then there's other bodily changes that are permanent, genitalia changes that can be permanent after testosterone. So there's a lot of just regret, a lot of people saying they didn't, nobody told them a lot of these things. And sadness, having undergone a mastectomy after just a couple months because they were in their first ever manic episode. And nobody slowed them down because of the cultural belief that if you have this specific preoccupation, you know, it's never anything else. It's always stand alone. It's always clearly point A to point B,

you just need this and you'll be fine. It's a very simplistic model. I'll be honest with you, because I used to be a teacher. So I've taught kids for many years, for 12 years, and towards the end of my career, I started to notice kids saying that they were, you know, gender non-conforming, that they were non-binary. And I looked at a lot of these kids, And my initial reaction was like, no, you're just a gay kid. You're just gay and that's difficult to come to terms with. It is. It is. You know, it's so hard.

Yeah, even in 2022, it's not easy, particularly when all you want to do as a kid is fit in. It's embarrassing. Do you think that's part of the problem? Yeah. No, it's, it's really hard for me to come out. Really, really hard. And I wanted there to be another way. And it makes sense. It makes sense like, oh, maybe I'm supposed to be a boy. I also like at the time I was very, uh, I thought of it as like that, that you, you learn a social language from other people by watching them. And you kind of do, but the problem with that theory was the idea that you would only learn one or the other sexist patterns or that there was one set of binary patterns that, that you'd pick one or the other. It's like,

it's, it's obviously, it's just shared a dialogue and, you know, that's kind of the basis of drag, for instance, is this taking on the other, other person's, uh, uh, uh, way of, uh, you know, behavioral speech patterns, if you will. And so, so, um, I, I fully agree that there's, there's a lot of confusion when you're growing up as a gay kid in a society that's, that's very heteronormative. And, and you're, you, you're watching all this media as a child. And the person that you want to be with only wants to be with the other sex. And so it's, it's confusing.

And it's hard. And so you, you come up with other reasons why you don't have to be the embarrassing thing of being gay. And, and, you know, the, eventually you have to kind of come to terms. But at the time in college, like, you know, I was, I was trying to date a man who was trans feminine on the theory that, you know, it was good enough. He was a very feminine man, very, very feminine. But no, it's not the same. It's just not. It doesn't work. Because whenever I speak to people about this, the first people that I spoke to who were

raising the alarm about this were actually gay women. What do you think it is in particular, about gay women who were the first ones to notice it, were the first ones to raise alarm, were the first ones to really talk about this? I think a few things. One is that lesbians are targeted by the trans-identifying men a lot more than men are targeted by trans-identifying women. It does happen, especially lately. It seems more and more that we're having trans-identifying women identifying as gay men and

then going and harassing gay men for not wanting to be with them. but I feel like that was at least initially more of a problem of men towards lesbians. And so that's why we stopped more there. I think we also, like, puberty is physically uncomfortable if you're a female. And so I think we're more likely to feel a bit alienated and dissociated from our bodies as a result of that. Just everything that's growing and changing just hurts on a physical level. So I think that it was perhaps easier for women to understand why the rapid onset thing would appeal to women. Um, from the statistics I've seen, it seems like the, uh, girls are, are making up the bulk of these referrals these days.

It's, it, and that's, that's represented a real shift, um, away from, from the past. And, uh, and, uh, and also just, just, just the reality of, of, uh, female only spaces and, and, and, and, uh, being, being, being victimized by voyeurs and, you know, all, all, all these things just, just make us more. more aware of the fact that of male predators and being gay, you know, there's no, there's no confusion about like, I didn't want that. I didn't, I didn't want this interaction. I was not sending signals. No signals were sent. And I've told you I don't want males.

That's a really interesting point that I haven't heard before, but it makes so much sense. It makes a lot of sense. And you mention the rapid onset stuff. I mean, whichever position you're coming at this issue from, I think the one thing is, that everybody would accept is this issue has shot up to prominence and partly that is not only the coverage of it but it's also the sheer numbers have changed completely in the last few years. Why has that happened? A few things I think, well, COVID, I think has been a huge, huge issue.

That's something that I did a review of a five-person panel from Boston Children's Hospital, which is the hospital that did the vaginectomy on the person that I interviewed that I just was discussing who ended up with the colostomy bag. And in that interview, they were saying that, oh, well, they think their theory was that everyone was at home during COVID and they all just felt safer to come out. I think that everyone's home at COVID on TikTok and they all were bored and they thought of something that would be interesting and they thought of a scavenger hunt that would be fun to pursue. So I think that was part of it. Everybody was just kind of, you know, home thinking about it. I also think, you know, one of the manufacturers of the one of the puberty blockers got in trouble a number of years ago for paying doctors to prescribe.

them for their precocious puberty. So I just feel like there's a huge amount of money behind this. And it came out in the last couple weeks that the NHS, I believe, is also starting to pay doctors per patient for prescribing the cross-sex hormones. So I don't know whether that specifically they know about that with puberty blockers, but it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer was doing that at least privately. But why are more people presenting with this issue? I think that they've heard about it and and it seems like an explanation that makes sense and it makes their distress not their fault and therefore not really their responsibility. And it makes it other people's fault and it's an opportunity to kind of control other people around you and regain a sense

of control that way. But I think the big thing is that it's popular. It's all over social media and that there's there's a lot of money behind it. I've also seen a video where it was a young person on TikTok, I think they said that they were 14 or 15, and they said that the doctor had actually called their parents and direct marketed puberty blockers to the child on the basis of the fact that the doctor thought the child had gender dysphoria based on the child's outfit, based on the child's preference for baseball cap and a collared shirt. And the child said that she hadn't heard of that before, but it made a lot of sense, and that she was mad because her parents were mad and said no, but she was going to still

try to figure out how to get on it. And this was posted to TikTok. by the child. Right. So you basically got a tomboy who walks into a doctor's office and walks, walks out with a prescription. Yeah. And so obviously they're going to be targeting lesbians disproportionately

who are a bit uncomfortable with the fact that they don't look like the group that is attracted to that the group that they want to be with is attracted to. You know, it's, I feel like normal and natural. I'm not saying any, any girl that dresses in like a tomboy is gay. But,

but if you go after the tumble, boys, you're going to get a lot of gays. You're going to get a lot of lesbians. Yeah. And it also makes sense that if someone appears, you know, if it's a woman who appears more masculine than the average female or the other way a boy who appears more feminine than the average boy, inevitably, they're going to feel more uncomfortable with their bodies because they don't feel that they're conforming, which then means they're then going to be put at risk of transitioning, particularly in your teenage years. And let's talk about autism, because I feel like that. that this is something that we don't talk about enough. I read a start, I think it was 35% of all

people or children who transition are autistic or have been identified as having autism. Wow. Now, that to me is just a horrifying stat. Can you talk a little bit about that? What is the link between autism and gender dysphoria? Are we seeing more kids with autism being put through this path? Sure, yeah. I'm happy to talk about that. So autism has two main components, which would be the sensory component and the social pragmatic component. And the social pragmatic component would be social language, social thinking, theory of mind, understanding other people and why they do what they do. And so as a speech pathologist, I treat social pragmatic disorders. And so I treat a lot of autistic kids. I don't diagnose autism, but I treat the social

pragmatic component of it if it's present. And with autism, that's, that's core diagnostic. So it's present. And so, so the issue with that is that they don't understand how these interactions unfold. And so they're very, very more likely to think that they have to look a certain way for them to unfold correctly. Like they don't, they don't get it. They don't get why people are like that. And they want, they want to have successful interactions and they get in their head that they need to be the other sex, perhaps because they're gay, have only seen those kinds of interactions successful when they're opposite sex interactions. And so I believe that.

And then the sensory component, too, is something that may change, especially the anxiety component when you give them an anxiety relieving drug like testosterone. And then we're back to like, well, would something else be better? So I do think that there's a connection there where somebody who lacks social pragmatic understanding and theory of mind is more likely to come to bad conclusions about why they're socially unsuccessful. Yeah, and particularly with autism where they do tend to feel more anxiety, because the way they move through the world is very different. It's very difficult for them, like you said, to understand social interactions. And if you don't understand the rules of a game

and you're constantly being full to play the game, it's incredibly frustrating and anxiety-inducing. that does make complete sense. And then they have a difficulty in general, which I believe to be on a neurological level, with transitions, with transitioning. And that's kind of infamous for autism. They don't want to move to the next activity. They'll get very upset.

And conversations are full of transitions. My turn, your turn, my turn, those are transitions. And if you are emotionally very upset from transitions, if they fatigue you on a chemical level, and it does with autism. It's chemically fatiguing somehow. They don't have the neural structures in place for that stamina to cope with all these transitions.

You know, it's, you want to have things like a preferred topic. You only want to talk about Pokemon because then it's my turn. Then I can just talk and I know what you're going to say. You're going to say, oh, cool. And then I get to say another fact.

And then you say, oh, cool. And then I get to say another fact. And then, you know, around and around we go. And that's a way of controlling the conversation to reduce anxiety and to minimize conversational transitions and unexexamines.

and unexpected turns. And being trans is another way of structuring conversations and structuring friendships for people who are socially deficient. Something to talk about. Yeah, it's something to talk about. And particularly when you look at the rate of diagnosis with boys and girls, far more boys get diagnosed with autism than girls do because it presents in a far more obvious way with boys,

whereas girls, they tend to, you know... Boys are also genetically. different. So they're more prone to it for chemical reasons. They don't have a second X chromosome coding for a lot of things. So they're getting a lower dose of certain chemicals. And so boys develop more slowly than girls across the board. But as a result, we don't identify a lot of girls of autism. So do you think it could be that these girls are autistic? I do think it gets overlooked. I don't know if it's autism specifically, but I do think that girls are overlooked for developmental disorders that make

them, I guess, they're more likely to just be stigmatized for their lack of social understanding, I believe, and expected to figure it out. And also, girls tend to be more verbal, whether they have autism or not. And so that might be a reason that it gets overlooked. Some very problematic truth bombs being dropped here about girls being more verbal and stuff like that. Girls and boys are different. Controversial. Controversial. There's very much a female brain. It's very controversial, I will defend this hill. Well, we will all, I think, defend this very controversial hill. Hey, Francis, do you like podcasts and politics? No, mate. I'm a real man, which means I only talk about football, birds and cars. You hate physical exercise. You're in a relationship, and the last

time you tried to drive a car, you had a panic attack when you got overtaken by a granny. She was driving very aggressively and used disgusting language for a woman of her age. Well, for those of you who are bored of the shouting and nonsense that is spread by the mainstream media, you have to check out the lost debate. It's a perfect podcast if you like politics and friendly discussion. It's three mates from across the political spectrum talking about the big issues without finger pointing and meltdowns. Ricky's a New York Post columnist, Corey's a former Fox radio news host, and Ravi's a former Obama staffer and school head teacher. They focus on having constructive discussions and trying to see the world from a variety of different perspectives.

Plus, they sound like real people and not media commentators. They sound like us, mate, apart from the whole sound like real people bit. Do a catchphrase. Get in the cam you can. Search for the lost debate wherever you get your podcast. And it's on YouTube as well. Check it out. And look, I suppose the question I want to ask you is, you know, we've been talking about

this issue for probably three years now, two or three years, since we've. We first sort of ventured into it. And the more we learned, the more horrified we became as to some of the things that had been happening. We've had former whistleblowers from the Tavistock Clinic here in the UK and many, many other people on the show to talk about it since the first time. Do you feel like some progress is being made in at least slowing the pendulum, if not perhaps getting it to start swinging back towards the sensible direction? Or, you know, or do you feel that the madness is accelerating? Because it's kind of hard to know. On the one hand, in the UK, we see some of the debate is being had,

and some of the laws are not quite going as far as they might have done, and various organizations that used to be very powerful and no longer quite having the same influence. On the other hand, every time you open a fucking newspaper, there's some trans person who's got, quote, unquote, her penis out in the middle of the street. As we're recording, this has happened, right, here. And the day before we read a story in the prison in New York, a trans woman impregnated several women, and on and on a go. So as someone who's paying attention to this, what do you think is happening?

Are we moving towards a healthy direction or is it just getting worse? It's so hard to say. I think I've seen some promising things such as Texas's stance on whether these interventions or abuse or not. Arkansas, I think, or Alabama, one of the A's. just passed a law about it too or is trying to pass a law. So I'm starting to feel a little bit optimistic that some of the states are pushing back. But at the same time, my state, California, Los Angeles, which is where I grew up, is either about to or just put a 26-year-old man in a juvenile female facility

because he identifies as a female and he was a minor when he committed the crime. It's like, well, he was a man when he committed the crime. He wasn't identifying as a female when he committed the crime. but he's identifying as female now, so he's going to the female prison. He was a juvenile, so he's going to the juvenile prison. So they don't have a line. They're going to keep, this group is going to keep pushing the boundaries, because they like crossing boundaries.

Crossing boundaries is the point. So if they can get a adult male sex predator into a juvenile female facility, that's what they're going to do. And that's what they did. He did. His name's Hannah Tubbs. There's, there's, it's, it's, so, so on the prison front, for instance, it appears to very much be accelerating.

They're just, they're just, they're just, the men right now and people haven't woken up yet to the fact that the of the ongoing horrors that these women are being subjected to for the crime of being female while having committed a crime it is cruel and unusual punishment especially emphasis i mean it's obviously cruel but it's clearly unusual to uh subject a prisoner to a risk of pregnancy cannot do that to a man that makes it unusual therefore you can't do it to a woman and it's in our constitution i don't know no no no Look, I mean, the idea that someone with a male anatomy is going to be in a female prison, to me, just shows that we have gone completely off the fucking rails.

And it's absurd, right? The fact that you've got male athletes, physically male athletes, competing against women, including in contact sport, including in, it's just absurd. And again, shows how far often. The fact that we're transitioning children. I mean, this is my personal opinion. Again, they're not capable of consent. Yeah, they're not.

They're not. And that's the thing is that they want to, they're pushing it because they want us to accept the idea that young people can consent to radical touching of their genitals. If a child can consent to having their penis inverted, why can't the child consent to having their penis touched by an adult? Now, look, I've heard this argument a lot. And it's not an argument I necessarily reject that. out of hand. But what is your evidence for that? Why are you saying that that is the case?

Why am I saying that is the case? Well, here's an example. Dr. Marcy Bowers of the W-Path said on camera and I am Jazz, he joked about how jazz could be a porn star while he was photographing jazz's genitals. So that in order to get this midline, we need to bring that down more and that will centralize this. I think we're saying the same thing. I'm happy. I have a good sense of what we need to do. Let me just take a picture too. Poor thing, you could be a porn star for all the photos we've taken. God, I'm so sorry. I did not say that. We have to just keep joking around here or otherwise we don't get through. God knows, if we didn't laugh in the last six months, we wouldn't have made it. I guess I'll get dressed again. You get dressed again. While he was photographing Jazz's

genitals. While he was doing that, he was joking about how you might as well be a porn star. I'm sorry, he's clearly getting a thrill from this. He's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he likes what he's doing. He likes touching children in this way and harming them. This is my firm belief. The pornography joke to me clinched it because he made it in front of the child and in front of the family. He was trying to see what he could get away with, in my opinion.

And so, so my other evidence for this is that organizations like W-Path are actively including a lot of fetish information in, in their, their publications. They're including information, for instance, about, castration fetishes and eunuch fetishes and cissification and things like that. It's in their actual materials that they're directly connecting to this. So that's why I feel like that is behind this, as well as other statements from just the idea that you can consent to these things is inseparable. But surely what you've talked about is like two individual instances.

Does that therefore mean that there is a greater trend across the entire profession or the people who are treating gender dysphoria? I believe that the people that are very essential to treating it are people that don't understand that children are children and that are very preoccupied with their sexual development. I don't think that you can be interested in protecting children, children's innocence and sexual development and also be doing this to them knowing that you are robbing them of sexual function in the future. So I just don't see how someone could know that this

is what they're doing to a child and not want to be doing it to the child. And I don't see wanting to do it for a good reason because they are taking the child's sexual function. Jazz Jennings has said that he doesn't have any sexual sensation. He has since in this recent episode described being penetrated and it looked like it was quite a horrible experience for. him. This is Euphoria Calvin Klein, the new elixir collection featuring three perfume intense scents, inspired by a unique orchid accord paired with vanilla, each with its own distinct attitude, each with its own universe, bold elixir, sensual, woody, addictive, magnetic elixir, sweet and romantic like a lingering touch, solar elixir, a radiant expression of joy, ultra-concentrated

for amplified impact and lasting power. Find your euphoria. Discover the Euphoria Elixir collection by Calvin Klein. I mean, this is a very, very difficult thing to talk about. But the problem that I have with the discussion as we're having it is we're talking about people who are transitioning and, you know, doctors doing it. Do you not just sometimes, do you not think that there's a more charitable explanation for this, which is, look, these doctors think they're doing the right thing, you know, just in the way. doctors who provided thalidamide to pregnant mothers for pain relief thought they were doing the right thing, you know.

I agree with you that some of these doctors believe that they're doing the right thing and don't know enough about the drugs they're prescribing to know what they're actually doing or how the drugs work. But at that point, I feel like you're getting to the point where they should know and we should have an expectation. Because they think they're doing the right thing because they're deferring to authority figures telling them. so it is the medical equivalent of the Nuremberg defense. I was just following orders. Well, they could have done their own research and they should have because they were a treating doctor and they're not because they're following orders. Right, but that's a very different point to the idea that they enjoy touching the kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's the people that are pushing this initially and are the reason that it's gone as far as it has. And then there are likely the majority at this point of doctors who are following orders and doing what they think is the right thing. So I definitely don't. I'm not saying that they are all pedophiles.

Because to me, it's a very serious accusation to make against, you know, a lot of people who I think, I personally think they're misguided in what they're doing from my experiences being an educator. And if my child, God forbid, identified in that way, there is no way that I would allow them to do it. But it's another thing to then say it's because they get a sexual thrill from touching it. Surely that is a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people in the medical profession, which you would probably find in every profession.

Every profession there are, unfortunately, predators, etc. Right. So when I'm talking about the predators behind this and pushing this, I agree that it is a minority of the medical profession. It is a minority of the people that are prescribing this, especially now, and that a lot of the people that are behind that I would class in that camp are also not medical professionals, but they are the ones who are driving the policies and are behind the propaganda, and especially the fact that it wasn't more fully vetted, that they jumped straight into

doing these treatments without actually researching them. If they were concerned about protecting the children, they wouldn't have done that. But at this point, that small and vocal and truly disturbed minority has propagandized the medical field and has captured a lot of institutions somehow. Okay, I see. So just to be clear, what I heard and correct me if I've misheard is that you think there's a small minority of people who've managed to, who are predators in one way or another, who've managed to influence many other people into supporting their worldview and their ideology. Yeah, yeah, through carefully crafted propaganda that influenced me at one point. I see. Well, it's an interesting, it's an interesting, I was going to say, it's an interesting way of looking at it. It's a way of looking at it that, you know, we were keen to challenge because I think a lot of people like to throw the label around at people they don't agree with.

And I think it's important to remember that, you know, even if you're late, if you're, if you're making that allegation against some people, it's not, it's not going to be everybody. there might be a small minority of people who are like that. Right, right. Most of the people who are pushing this, I believe, are acting in good faith or are being paid by the manufacturer to just prescribe a drug. And then there's a small and vocal minority who is actually in it for the eunuch fetish, for the castration fetish.

And we know that from this very prominent trans organization that's extremely influential, talking about it. Well, on that happy note of castration fetishes, excellent, it's been great to have you on the show to talk about some of this stuff. And I would say particularly in the first part of the interview, I really appreciated the directness and bluntness with which you talk about this issue. Thank you.

Because I think that's very important, actually. So thank you for coming on. I know that you are now banned from YouTube for reasons that, as always, you don't know. Yeah. Because they won't tell you what you've done wrong. What is your situation now? where are you with, you know, your content?

So currently my content is on both Odyssey and Rumble and can be accessed through either looking for the channels TTXLANZIC or XLANZIC.com right now is pointing to Odyssey. And so I'm still uploading videos usually once or twice a week where I look at different content, IAM Jazz series or phalloplasty files, things like that. I've tried to get back on YouTube a couple times, but they keep banning me. Well, that's not perfect, but we wish you all the best.

And we're going to ask you a couple of questions from our supporters that only they will see on our locals page. But before we do, we always end the show with one final question. Which is what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be? The one thing we're not talking about that we really should be. Oh, goodness. I feel like that we are not talking and should be talking more about the spinal impacts of binding and things about that nature. I've been doing a few videos lately on that.

And it's like people talk about the bindings effects on breast, but I think that we need to talk about the spine as if it's like the foot. And we need to recognize that if we're putting 13-year-olds in binders, they're going to end up with deformations. So we need to be very careful about that. Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much.

We thank you for watching. If you have enjoyed this episode, our episodes always go out on Wednesday and Sunday, 7pm UK time, and our raw shows go out Thursday, Friday and Saturday. We also have a podcast if you like your trigonometry on the go. Thank you so much again for watching. Take care and we'll see you soon, guys. Do you feel that if you were brought up in a culture

where female rules are different, would you still have dysphoria?