Trillbilly Worker's Party - BONUS: End Bail Now! (w/ special guest Shameka L. Parrish-Wright)

Episode Date: May 29, 2020

Tanya talks with Shameka Parrish-Wright (@Seasoned4u) for this bonus episode about incarceration in Kentucky, Bail Reform, COVID-19 in our prisons, and weekly actions in Louisville, KY to empty the jail & demand justice for Breonna Taylor, who was murdered by police in her bed in March. Since recording, more murders by police have erupted revolts across the country and the 911 audio from the night of Breonna's death was released by her family. Riots in Louisville Thursday night (May 28, 2020) resulted in several shootings and more in jail. Donate to The Bail Project or Louisville Community Bail Fund to support their release. The Bail Project: https://secure.givelively.org/donate/the-bail-project Louisville Community Bail Fund: https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/louisville-community-bail-fund/

Hello, friends and comrades. This is Tanya, one third of the Trill Billy Workers Party podcast. Thanks for joining us today. I am really proud to be able to release this bonus episode that could be the first in a series about Kentucky incarceration. could be the first in a series about Kentucky incarceration. I'm releasing this on Friday, May 29th. But this is an interview I did with Shemika Parrish-Wright from the Bell Project in Louisville, who's been organizing in Louisville since the beginning of COVID to try to get the hundreds of people being held in the jail in Louisville released who are just being held there on bail pre-trial. of this interview a little over a week ago, we have seen some pretty horrific and incredible things play out, starting with the death of George and riots that followed in Minneapolis over the last two days that resulted in the burning of their fire station.

So, in Louisville, Kentucky, back in March, a young woman named Breonna Taylor was also murdered by police in her home in the middle of the night in front of her partner. And what happened last night on Thursday night, or yesterday afternoon on Thursday, as riots were escalating in Minneapolis. The attorney of Breonna Taylor's family finally was able to get and release the 911 call from Breonna Taylor's partner, proving what he has been saying and the family has been saying that they didn't even know it was the cops in their home. And he was terrified. It's a horrible audio to hear, but you can find that on the internet if you like and in response to the release of that 9-1-1 call and in some solidarity certainly with a movement to get justice for George Floyd, people took to the streets in Louisville, Kentucky last night on Thursday night, May 28th. In response to what happened there last night, including shots fired into the crowd,

lots of protesters have been locked up and are in jail today. Shemeika Parish, right, of course, has immediately been organizing with those people and families and is raising money and funneling money from the National Bail Project to get those people out of jail. So we're happy to go ahead and release this interview with Shamika, who talks about her work, both to protect people who are incarcerated during COVID and to end money bail, cash bail, the totally oppressive system worked to keep poor people behind bars even before they've been convicted of anything. So you can hear Shamika telling her own words how to support this work, but definitely try

to support the Louisville Bail Project and the Louisville Community Bell Fund, if you can today, among all the groups supporting people standing up for themselves across the country right now. Love and solidarity to all of you. Thanks so much for listening and supporting Trailbillies. I appreciate you so much for being with me here Shamika I haven't talked to you in too long I know right it's been oh I think I remember you from my KFTC days uh-huh yeah no I definitely remember you I was actually wondering if I should tell you this or not but this is pretty funny I think you'll enjoy it I think we only had like a month of overlap because God, that's been like 10 years now ago that we work together. But you were one of the first people who ever like had a heart to heart with me and was like, don't believe everything you hear at these nonprofits.

Oh my God, that sounds like me. And looking back on it, that's the best advice I ever received. Oh my God. See, that's how you know I speak from the heart. Because people are like, you know that you said this to me? And I'm like, I said that? Whoop, my daughter's been through that moment. But I've been through a lot with these nonprofits, so I definitely can see myself like just giving you the heads up.

I mean, it's real stuff because we come in, I always tell people I came from the streets first. So I, you know, I grew up poor and over the Rhine and Cincinnati, I fought my way through a lot of things, 17 schools, four colleges, just life was just crazy. But I tell people when I came to this work, to this nonprofit work, I was green. I brought my, and I'm still, I'm still green because I still believe in people and I, and I, and I'm always going to put the people first, but I went in and I was like, Oh, I'm here to learn. These people are going to receive me. Oh my God. They gave me the blues. Like they even questioned my blackness and i'm like i never experienced i experienced stuff in the non-profit sector that i would never experience on the street

it's just a code it's like an unspoken code that you have you don't mess with anybody's children you don't mess with their mother you know you know family stuff. And you don't, you just don't lie in a way that you're, you're, you're like deceiving people on such a level. It's different if I'm selling you something that I don't know where it came from, but I'm selling that to you. I have a product. You're making that decision to buy that. But the, what I'm talking about is people in our nonprofit work, there's little to no accountability. So you got people who are poverty pimps and people who they will say whatever they need to say

to get that grant money and that grant funding. And they don't care who they crush in the process. And there's no repercussions. And so they do it in a way that nobody's going to check them about it because we are we're not good at holding each other accountable in that way, because it might be a black person that do it. So the white allies don't want to do it or or vice versa. And it's hard. It is so hard to navigate.

So whenever I meet somebody, but I want more people like me and you to get involved. but I want more people like me and you to get involved. So when I meet somebody like me and you, I try to be honest with them and say, look, you know, you got to take everything with a grain of salt. That's what my daddy taught me. Take it with a grain of salt. You get more with sugar than salt.

And he was just like, tell me these bits of information from his jail cell about how to navigate people. You know, my mama, she don't play she's just like i don't mess with people i don't trust them but my dad he loved people so i picked up a lot of that from him but yeah you took me back 10 years ago and it's funny that we're doing this not funny just irony and everything but a perfect irony because 25 years ago to this day is when I became just as involved in fighting for a domestic relationship. The same thing that many women are doing. The same reason that Kentucky is high in women in incarceration is most of those things are related to a domestic relationship. Most of those reasons that they find themselves behind bars are related to domestic violence, drugs, alcohol, their children.

So it's it's just crazy that today, 25 years ago, I was in a jail cell for 38 days starting today and did not know why I was there because I was protecting myself. I picked up a weapon and fought back, but he knew what he did was wrong. He even came to court and said that. But the judge never saw me. I was in a suit. He was in a suit. He was the son of a sheriff for 27 years. I was a poor, black, young, teenage mother with a three-year-old on my way to college.

And my life just got interrupted right at that point. And my life just got interrupted right at that point. And I couldn't win any and dealing with my dad. Like I have a picture here of my dad. He's beautiful. Yeah, I was 13 or 14. And he had just gotten out from doing like a five year bid. And he took me to my first concert.

And so on the way to the concert, they had these like photo booths and he said let's do a picture I'm his only child I always said that he never stayed to make any more kids I made up for that I had six kids so that made up and he and he got us all he got all of our names tattooed on his arm in jail and he had some wrong and me and my daughters we joke about that today but we know where his heart was He got all of our names tattooed on his arm in jail. And he has some of the names still wrong. And me and my daughters, we joke about that today, but we know where his heart was. But that man raised me from a jail cell and those communications that understanding. So you can imagine at 18, I'm sitting in there like, how did I get here? Like, I know what this road is.

I've seen it. I've lived it with my dad. How am I here? And that's that happens to people every day, Tanya. And that's why this pretrial incarceration is something that we have to deal with, because this is a this is a fork in a road and it's a horrible place to be for so many people. So today it was meant even though like our other meetings got moved around. Here we are right now today at my 25th anniversary from being justice involved. Like it was meant to be,

I couldn't have picked this. So yeah, it was perfect. I know. I saw your Facebook. When I saw your Facebook post earlier, I was like, Oh,

this stays perfect. This is going to be perfect. I just appreciate you so much. And I know that you are doing so many things out in the world. And you have six babies. I know they're not all babies, but they're your babies. And I had two of those kids while I worked with you. Two grandkids now.

I would have never guessed that 43. The pluses is that I'm 43. Half of my kids are grown. I'm still raising kids. I got two grandkids. I can run around with them. I can chase them. I can be a very active grandmother.

So there's a bonus side to it. Yeah, totally. My mom's a young grandma and she likes it. Yeah, they give her a run for her money for sure that's that's I mean guess what I never met any of my grandparents Tanya most of them died of a heart condition that I do have now and um I inherited my father's heart condition um that's what killed him but I know institutions being institutionalized killed him too because he still lived as he was in a cell because you spend 40 or 56 years in and out of jail.

That's your your mind is built around that. And so when we would visit him, the kids would say, why does granddad always just everything was built around the living room? He had a one bedroom, but he that's what they found him dead at. Right. In his living room, in the kitchen, laying on the floor um his heart arrhythmia uh his asthma turned into heart arrhythmia and yeah and so they found him days later um so yeah it was and he was a loner he wanted to be he went the way he wanted to i was trying to convince him i had given him a three-month deadline that i was going to move him out and move him in with me. And he fought that tooth and nail, but you know, he, it was a complicated life to live. And, but I'm so proud of everything he told me because everything is, is coming to order. He was so proud of me. I had this picture with Cornel West. He had at his place. He was so proud. He was well read. He introduced me to

black artists, to my favorite poet, which is Langston Hughes. He introduced me. I mean, imagine having a dad that you can like you both rap to the same songs like we we both love to pop. We both love music, period. And so when we did get together, when he wasn't in jail, it was some of the most quality time that I didn't realize how rich that was. And so my friends who came from more fluent situations or two-parent households or with their dad. And it was like, Shemeika, you've had conversations with your dad that I've never had. And I've been willing to ask my dad. So I've learned to value all of those relationships, but all of that was built off of incarceration. So yeah. And nobody can speak and come to this abolition work quite like you can

and people like you who kind of grew up dealing with the system in that way well we've got right on into it we didn't waste a second not a bop you all we already got into the non-profit industrial complex in five minutes let her ask the question and my name is Latanya too so we're connected on so many levels my middle name is Latanya oh that's right I didn't know that yeah maybe that's why we hit it off when I first because I think we only had a month or two of overlap. You were leaving as I was coming in. And so, and just like me, when I was on the way out, I was ready to give a warning to anybody coming in. Because I stuck around there for five years and I remembered what you told me. You did, exactly.

Five years at a nonprofit, people don't understand. When I tell people I like projects and campaigns it's for a reason because I spent this time as board member as volunteer as organizer and I don't think that our work is meant to be retired from I think the longer you stay in an organization in a certain position I don't care what position it is. You you're changed by that position. And so you have to have things in your life that keep you grounded or understanding. Like as my life shift, where where am I at with the same issues? Change. Right. And there's nothing wrong with wanting more, wanting a higher position. I mean, a place like KFTC, there's only going to be lateral moves.

You're only going to move up so much and then you're going to move laterally right because bird ain't going to wear right and then you got lisa you got everybody and it's no disrespect it's just that is what that's what you what you're into and then you have people who move around but it's all lateral and then for me being a black woman for you even being a woman our glass ceiling is like shit on our head in Kentucky, you know? And so you have to find your ways in and out. And I think it's supposed to be a revolving door, not meaning that it should go fast, but meaning that you come in and you give what you can to this work and you find out what your connections is. You find out if you're being really effective with an organization and you spend that time but after about about four or five years you know where you're gonna go you know what's next

and if you don't know it's time to figure out where you're gonna go working with um then attica scott now representative attica scott she had been at jw day kentucky jobs with justice at right about five years and she was like i going to move to the next thing. And I was like, no, we need you here. There's not many Black women leading local work. Even though it's a part of a national, there's not a lot of Black women leading. And we need you in these spaces. But she had done that so much.

And now she was ready for the next level. And she has a really strong love for policy work. So I said, you know what? That makes it. What else you want to do? You want to run for office? Let's do it. You know? So I respect that. I'm not trying. And I, when I go into organizations and they hire me to do work, I tell them I'm not trying to retire here.

If most I'm give you a good strong five years, if I stay there or if I go, cause it's, it's realistic, you know, and it's nothing against anybody who stay in an organization longer than five years. But it's also for us to be realistic about what's the expectation. Your life changes. Like you said, like you was when you I was going out, you were coming in. I had two little kids. They're about to be 10 and 11 now. You know, working, you know, i have had my kids grown i was doing my own business until someone said shelton mcelroy said shimika i think you should you would be great for the bill project

so you know me i heard project i look at it as i like getting elected i like campaigns i was like i can do a project what's the goal it's a five-year goal. Oh, shoot. Sign me up. You know? So I think it's being honest and being realistic with ourselves and also knowing that in those positions you change, you know, and not, and knowing who you are. Cause after this girl, this work is so trauma field and you're people at like the worst time in their life. I told them once all y'all grown, I'm gonna, I'm going to get my CDLs and I'm going to drive trucks. I want to do something totally separate because this is so intense, Tanya. And it's like,

you start just doing things because that's what's expected of you. And then you're called on so much that when I came to Louisville, Kentucky, I had the idea of starting my own nonprofit. when I came to Louisville, Kentucky, I had the idea of starting my own nonprofit. And then I started working for nonprofits and I was like, Oh, no, give me a campaign or a project to work on. I'll get the job done. You have a tangible, I have a tangible and I'm on to the next thing. And I started realizing that the way I am, the way my energy is set up, you can call it PTSD. You can call it, what is that called? Adverse childhood experience from having a father in that way. And my mom, I have a whole lot of those. But what I found out is what works for me is to be a part of that change at whatever level.

And then when I'm done, gracefully, I'm going to find you a replacement. I'm going to find you somebody to help continue on the work because it's not the work I want to leave. It's just that I'm at a space where I'm ready to do something else. I want to have as many experiences as I can in this world because I've already broke down so many lines of cycles of poverty by having the children. My story was already written as a mother of 15 with a father that was in jail most of his life. I've been fighting those cycles all my life. And so now I'm like, I proved it to myself that I can do these things. So anyway, I'm always going to be around prisoners rights, abolition work, decarceration.

Those are where my heart are, because I know what it's like to be that little girl waiting on that, on your loved one and not understanding why they're keeping, they keep getting caught up in the system. So even with now I did this meeting, if I wasn't here, I would be in a meeting with the special project and Louisville family justice advocates. And we go into the jail and do our visitation with the lobby. I work with Judy Jennings in there and we do visits and we do art with the children while they're visiting their loved ones. I remember what it was like to go to those jails and wait for the visitation and all the cold stairs and the whole environment. And so we're changing that space while we're there. We have a little tables we set up. We do the art with them.

They tell us all kinds of stories. We don't ask them any identifying information. We just sit there with them and do art with them. And so that simple thing, one, it gives me some art experience because I draw stick. How I would have looked at that if I was while visiting my dad, if I could create some art for him and give him that tangible product. You know, of course, I wrote him back and he wrote me letters and he paid people to do artwork for me. But it was like I got to create it right then. And I'll stop after this. One of the times I was there on Christmas Eve and there was a beautiful little girl and she came in and she was dressed up. She looked like a doll baby. And she said, I just want to be able to see my dad. And I said, you're going to be your dad's present because she was so beautiful that they waited two hours. And then the jail people said he couldn't be seen. And I was like, oh, do not do this to this little girl.

And we went back and we talked and apparently there was a mix up in communication. But another hour later, she was able to go see her father. But I was sure that she was not going to be able. I mean, she had to be like eight. And I was just blown away. She wanted all that mattered to her. They called two buses there. She said, when we get out of school,'s hard it's hard on my mom that she sees her mom struggling to get there

but all she wanted was to to see her dad in this twilight zone black and white little video tv because it wasn't even a contact visit it was just oh my gosh white screen you know and but anyway she got to see her dad and I knew then I was like this is real work I mean it's not the same work as other people you don't get the same limelight but it's okay what you're making a difference in these children's lives and that means a great deal if I had that I mean look what I did without that and just imagine having that I would have ran a long time ago. But yeah, so here we are. Thank you. Thank you, God, you're already this is such a blessing. You you're the gift, your gift. Like you told that little girl. So I don't think I properly introduced you, would

you kind of introduce yourself and tell us your name and where you're based? And you were already getting into it a little bit with the different things that you got your kind of hands in. There's so much we could go over talking about Kentucky incarceration broadly, as you know, that could be a whole month long chat. But to start off with, I thought it might make sense to start with what's currently happening in this COVID mess and kind of like what that has kind of risen to the surface to make so urgent. And then work our way a little bit backwards and kind of Kentucky more broadly. Because even your working in Louisville has made me do more research about our local jail in Letcher County. And I found out, which I didn't know, that they have 77 people in there with only 50 beds.

So it's like, you know, we're just dealing with all kinds of crazy different from. Yeah. And but then, you know, overcrowding, of course, is like a Republican can become a Republican talking point for expansion. So it's just like there's a lot of complicated stuff. But anyway, we'll get into that. As we have time, I'm not going to hold you longer than you have been so sweet to join me. But will you introduce yourself for folks? Yeah, thank you. I share the same sentiments. I think I want to say before I introduce myself that this is an issue. The whole reason of me even working for the Kentucky for Commonwealth, I saw them in action and I was volunteering and I saw them do the flyovers. And that's back when mountaintop removal was the top thing. And I went to a church and I was asked to

be an usher. And I heard these people who flew over from Eastern and Western Kentucky share about their experiences. And then there was people from Louisville and the more urban areas of Kentucky, they flew over and they came back. So you had this big discussion and it was so many places where we have so much in common, but we are talked about and we are treated as a divided state. So with that said, that's what attracted me because I was like, oh, I will get involved with Kentucky and for the Commonwealth. I want to help bridge that urban and rural divide, which we know it's killing us. Right. It's literally killing us. And so fast forward on Shemeika Parish. Right. And I've been in the community. I moved to Louisville when I was 25.

I'm now 43 and I'm raising kids here. I met my husband here. I'm now 43 and I'm raising kids here. I met my husband here. I moved to Miami for a while and came back. And I said when I came back, I was going to be a part of change. So one of the things was I was not going to plug directly into an organization. I wanted to just come back, do my project work. So I've been running my business successfully since 2014. And it's it's called It's What We Do, Special Project Services. since 2014. And it's, it's called, it's what we do, special project services. And so I do everything from campaigns to legacy projects, to, to coalition work, to community outreach. And so I take different contracts and I, and I, sometimes I bring in additional help, but I only go for local women of color and women first. So I also take the monies.

I turned down the Hillary Clinton campaign. So it was like word of mouth gets around and people start talking. So I didn't even have to advertise. It was helping people with their projects start spreading the word and more people started calling me and talking to me. But when I moved back to Louisville in 2014, I had left my husband and came here because my dad was sick. And my husband stayed in Miami, but I said, I need to be back because I'm all my father has. And if something happens, it'll be harder to bring my

family, my big old family from Miami to Cincinnati where he was living. And if I came back to Louisville, I hadn't left that long ago. I actually left after I was put in a one-year position at KFTC. So it was a grant-funded position. So I was doing development work with KFTC, and then I got transferred to a voter empowerment organizer, which is what I love. I'm always about voting. And then after that, that was a one-year position. So that position ended in 2010. So I started doing some more groundwork and pre-work. And I was like, you know what? I always wanted to live in Florida. This would be a good time to go because I just left that organization and went back to school and just went down there. And so anyway, when I came back, I was homeless. I was homeless, but then I was still working and doing side jobs for lawyers, helping them clean up files, doing all kinds of legal assistant work.

I just, I did whatever. I'm a Jackie of all trades, right? And then politics, I've always had an affinity for politics as a tool for change. Not that it's our only mode of change, but it's a tool for change. And so then I started doing more of that. And then, like I said, years later, I get approached by a dear friend, Shelton McElroy, who said, there's this project and it's the Bell Project. And this was in 2018. And he said, you know, I think you would be great. I'm looking at the applicants and we don't have a you here. We need a you. And I said, all right, let me try. I missed the deadline because I was working on a project and I was just like, he called me back and he was like, did you even apply? I said, no, isn't the deadline passed? He said, no, submit your application. So I did that. I had the interview process with Ezra

and Richard and it was cool. And I was just like, I learned a great deal. And one of the things in the interview question, which is what sold me is when he said, I explained my justice involvement. I didn't have to, but it's what brings me back to the work. And he said, do you think that you would have qualified for our program? And I, and from what you've learned? And I said, no, because I have a balance charge. Because that's what I was used to. Once you have a balance charge, all those doors that might be doors for reentry, they shut for you. And he said, no, we're not. We're charge agnostic and we're not looking at your charges. We're looking at your ability to pay, your ability to come back to court, your community supports. your ability to come back to court, your community supports. And I was like, oh, just think if I was able to get out back then on a program like this, I could have been out and I still did it, but I

could have been a college student, a mother and, and, and everything I needed to be while fighting my case. And so I took a plea deal because I was hopeless and that's what's happening to people every day. So of course, you know, he had me at go. I was like, oh yeah, was hopeless and that's what's happening to people every day. So, of course, you know, he had me a go. I was like, oh, yeah, well, let's do this thing. We're going to get some people out. We're going to free some people. And then the bail, the bail project. Right. And then after about six months. So I started with Holly McLon Zoller. She and I started together. We started getting people out.

Then I started learning the ins and out of the system. Like I knew the system as being directly impacted. And then I knew the system, my brother is incarcerated. I actually picked him up next week from prison and it'll be 10 years for him. And the same judge that sent my brother to 10 years at 31, sent my father to 10 years in his 30s no way the same judge judge and my brother jesus shemekia oh my god i couldn't make this stuff up truly um so he got locked up a little bit after i had left kftc and or no was like, it was in 2010. So it was towards the end of KFTC. And so when that happened, so I was just wrapping everything up. I'm helping keep his kids encouraged. I'm helping his kids' mothers when I can, I'm doing everything I can. And I thought about how much

of this weighs on women. And then I worked with Judy Jennings in the special project and we got, I got involved with SC Justice Group, which their whole focus is on the impact of incarceration on women, which I already knew because I lived it. We hold the world up. We hold up. Even when I do the visitations and the art activities with the kids now, you see the women in there putting the money on the books, doing the visitations. And then when we tried to do it, the special project's been doing this for about over 10 years. I said, why don't we don't do it for the women? The women don't get the same amount of visits, Tanya. So it's said that by the time a woman is just as involved, all of her bridges are burnt. And I'm telling you, I've seen that face to face. They don't get the same visits.

And even in prison, when I talk to the women in prison, they say the only women that usually get visits are the ones that they're about to get out. And then you'll see the men who are ready to pray on them or the sugar daddies and all of that. That's who they see. Other than that. And I've talked to women who've done 20 years and they verified that women don't get the same support. And they verified that women don't get the same support. And I saw it, but I knew I kind of felt it. But it was like when I worked with the SD Justice Project, we did Because She Can. And it's a powerful thing that I will share with you, too. So they came out with a report and it talked about the impact of incarceration on women. And they chose Kentucky as one of their partner sites because we were back then we were number two with women that are incarcerated. because we were back then we were number two with women that are incarcerated we're number one with children who have an incarcerated parent as well as number one with children who could have two parent or guardians incarcerated in the whole country Kentucky is number one have you heard the

um that's like statistic that at the current rate of incarceration in Kentucky in like whatever however many years the whole every man woman and child in the state will be incarcerated. It's just bananas. It's so crazy. You're right. The Institute did that report. And yeah, and I use that when I'm doing presentations to churches about the Bell Project work. I let them know that we are such an incarceration state. Now we were behind Oklahoma with women and now I think we're number three, but still we have a site that's in Oklahoma as well.

But we know that Kentucky, this whole lock them up and throw away the key mentality and the way that we do business is not working. And that really fast forward us to what's going on right now with COVID-19. You have a delayed order from our governor, but it wasn't an order to release people. But there still was some issues with that. Then our Chief Justice Minton, which made a very bold move in giving an order to release people and to not hold people unnecessarily and things like that. But we still today have over 1,200 people in our local jail, just in Jefferson County. Now we- Unbelievable.

With the ACLU and some other groups around the state, and they're talking about what those jail numbers are like in the individual counties. And Letcher was brought up, as well as Kenton County, in the individual counties and Letcher was brought up as well as Kenton County, McCracken and all of those other counties. We have 120 counties where incarceration is a problem. Pre-trial incarceration is a problem. So the policy Institute, Kentucky policy Institute, KSEP, they did a report. I don't have it with me, but they went County by County on arrest rates, release rates. And, and so you have counties like Bell that might be doing a good job. And you have counties like Letcher, like you said.

I've driven down to Litchfield. We built people out in Jefferson County and like six or seven surrounding counties. And now we're looking to take our work towards Lexington, hopefully, when all of this is, you know, we're not in this pandemic. And as well as Cincinnati. So I just got promoted to operations manager. And do you hear me when I say 25 years later, I could be taking this work back to the place where I became justice involved? Like, congratulations, not have like, guess that, you know, yeah yeah Kentucky is really important to me because we know like you said at the rate that we're growing and and being incarcerating folks in

just over a hundred years and so even if somebody's like I won't be alive in a hundred years somebody else will like still scare the shit out of you that incarcerating people at that kind of rate, that you should be like, what the hell can I do? And with that said, I want to make sure that I mention that since we've been doing this work, I look at it as there's a train headed towards mass incarceration because of our incarceration rate. And we're trying to derail that train from the front end. So this part of pretrial incarceration is just a piece of that, but it's a big wheel. And it's a piece of why people are going on to prison because they, like I did 25 years ago, took a plea deal and they want to know when they're getting out. And so if we work together

and we derail this train, we've already seen it in the last two years. You see less. And this is over 2000 people we bailed out in Kentucky alone. But you see you see less people going to prison. You see better outcomes. You see more connections to community services and programs. You see a community stepping up and working together for the people that are impacted by incarceration. Because guess what? When we first started, the clerks were like, he's a runner. I can't believe you're bailing her out or she's this. They're messaging and saying, can you bail out my son? Can you bail out my daughter?

We're walking into jail and corrections officers are saying, thank you for bailing out my son. He will be back to court. The ex-judge's child. We've built. So now that this issue is not just poverty. It's not just the lower class. It's also middle class. Middle class folks are impacted by this. And so now I will say that because of the support of the community, we've been able to change some hearts and minds and build awareness.

So we have the Presbyterian church who is based here nationally, who've taken this as an issue. We have LSURS, Louisville Showing Up for Racial Justice, a part of the National Showing Up for Racial Justice. We have all these groups that are working on anything from abolition to policy work to agency improvements. All of us are at the table together and talking in ways that we have not before. You even have judges who are a part of this conversation because that's what we have to tell people. A judge has already made a decision that Johnny can get out if these conditions are met. So people who want to attack our work, that starts with the judge. And I don't want to necessarily take their discretion away. I just want them to use the discretion in the best way possible.

So the judicial discretion is powerful. Judges change lives. Ever. Like I told you, that gentleman, that judge. Ten years to my father, ten years to my brother. Now, I'm not saying that he that he's the reason they're there. I'm saying when you're in front of those judges, they make that decision on your life right there. And so we need the best judges elected. So that's what I said. I got an opportunity to work on Judge Annie O'Connell's campaign as her campaign manager. And it was powerful. And I learned, I was like, oh, I want to get better judges elected. Because guess what? Most judges come from a prosecutorial background. She comes from a criminal defense background. Your lens is different if you've already been defending

poor people or people who are justice involved. You have a different lens than if you're a prosecutor and all you've been doing is sending people to jail. When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Thank you. And I can say that they're not perfect. So even with our national board, we got a gentleman by the name of Adam Foss. I would love for you to talk to him. He used to be a DA in Philly,

and now he's dedicated his life into organizing and educating prosecutors about the power they have in a courtroom, about how they are making decisions that are impacting people and how he, as a district attorney, had to step back and say, where am I at in this wheel of justice? Like, where am I at? Where can I make a difference? And realizing that not every case deserves that level of severity. If this is a life, if this is a chance to give that person a lesson or if this is a chance to have that person. And this is not taken away from any victims. We have victim advocacy groups that support us because they're saying, hey,

if we've had clients that their their perpetrator is a rich man. He's not held by the justice system. Whenever he gets in trouble for stalking or whatever it is, allegedly, he's able to get out. Right. So I wanted to, you know. Yeah, I wanted to back up because I don't think people really understand always what pre-trial means. And, you know, just like with the I feel like one of the biggest things that has kind of floated quickly to the surface during this pandemic is that so many people are sitting in jail right now because they're poor, just because they're broke. Yeah, because if they had a credit card, then they could just swap their way out.

Because most people are sitting in jail and have not been convicted of anything. They've not been found guilty of anything. They're just sitting there waiting on trial. And, you know, you said that it was an important note that it was a delayed response from our governor. Our governor is getting a lot of national attention right now for his good movement on COVID-19. Our governor is getting a lot of national attention right now for his good movement on COVID-19.

And sure, he is doing a lot of things that just normal, everyday, regular governorship should happen. This is like he's just doing what he should be doing. I don't know why he's getting so much praise for it. But I don't get praise when I do my job the way I'm supposed to. Somebody told me that, too. I'm glad you said that on Facebook somebody said you should be in this list they were recognizing people for some work that they did I said people like me don't make those lists people like me are unsung we don't get out here I'm a worker bee I just get out here and

I do it so you're exactly right like you don't get extra credit for doing our jobs and showing up and this isn't the time to bash them so I told you i'm not trying to bash him but but i have to be honest and and anybody that's around him has to be honest it was yeah and like people we knew that jails would be a petri dish we knew it was a mountain like a minimum amount of time before those things spread like wildfire i and my my like my brother like he's about to get out. Say he was 100 percent guilty of whatever it was. He's did 10 years for that. Now he can literally die before he come home because they are jails. Nobody was prepared for this. So I don't just want to harp on the Department of Corrections or all the penal institutions. I'm saying nobody was prepared for this. So this is a natural disaster moment

and you're making a life or death choice for people no matter what they were doing or charged with, they all weren't sentenced to death. Like no matter what they did, you have them in a situation where they literally can sit in there and die and that wasn't their sentence.

And with pre-trial incarceration, to bring it back to that, now that cases are being rescheduled because of the slowdown and the court stopping and all of that so say you got a petty theft charge alleged charge and then you're there you literally can sit there longer than you would be sentenced if your top sentence would be a year probation uh or two months or a month jail time. Cause like usually the probation is longer than the jail time. So say you're, you're, you, that qualified you for 60 days in jail, your court cases. Now they've, they, when I last talked to them,

they said they've rescheduled over 16,000 court dates. So just in Kentucky alone and Jefferson County alone. And we have clients that are literally got locked up earlier this year. We'll sit in there until November to September to October, just to go to court because like you said, they are poor and they can't afford to swipe their way out. So they're literally a sit in there over sentence longer than they would get if they're done with it. You know, if they were already sentenced to that. So yes, we're restoring innocent until proven guilty. That's what this is about. We say that's our law and that's how things are set up. But now bail and always been is used in such a punitive way that we are

already sentencing people as soon as they get locked up, especially if you're poor. Yeah. And so the other thing about the early, some of the releasing that the Kentucky governor did around COVID is he also leaned back on this false binary of the state violent, nonviolent offenses that you brought up earlier about your case. And he made, you know, people who had violent offenses, quote unquote, violent, whatever the state has deemed violent, which we know is often ridiculous. They weren't qualified to be released. Right.

And so it was already just like a very tiny set. It ended up being, what, 300 some people ended up getting released early, which is something certainly for them and their families and communities, but it's just a tiny fraction of the people incarcerated in this state.

I think the total was closer to almost 900, but they were. Yeah, because he came back. I had the list of the people that were released. So I got two lists. I didn't I don't know if I got the last list. But if you add it all up, it's closer to 800 to 900 people that was released as a result in stages. But now all of that is changing. stages. But now all of that is changing. And my fear is reincarceration of all these people that were released if they don't know when their next court date is, if they don't have transportation, if they're trying to find housing and they missed their court date, they're not going to be as

lenient. I don't think it's lenient enough because they feel like they've done enough. And I don't think it's enough because you still have our jails. Like you said, they're not as overcrowded, but there's still a problem and people are still being detained. Now there's a large amount of people being released after they're arrested, but there's a great deal still being retained. So we've seen the numbers go down just locally in Jefferson County, 1,222 up to 1,245 in a day or two, up to 1,250, back down to 1,248, back up to 1,277, which was one of the most recent totals I got. So that tells you, even though they released some people, whatever, that number is going to do that because now you're going to go back to overcrowding because you don't keep those orders in place.

You have the police that are still arresting people and, you know, killing people. And you still like you have those numbers keep going. So I don't I'm glad that you are holding a space for this because I don't want folks to get comfortable and think that we've done enough and think that our government's done enough. I don't want folks to get comfortable and think that we've done enough and think that our government's done enough. So like Kenton County and I and I don't know all the details on every county, but Kenton County sheriff was able to release more than half the people in his local jail. He has that authority in Jefferson County. And I don't know about Letcher, but in Jefferson County, those releases have to come from the governor, a judge or the mayor. The mayor runs our jail and so we think here it would have to be a judge or the governor yeah because we we've been trying to figure out who a target would be too but we don't think because it's a county jail we don't have

mayors of our count like there's not a mayor of this county it's a it's like a judge executive which is not a judge at all you You know, it's always weird names. And we think it would actually have to be a judicial appointed judge to make those calls. And those are the people who set all the bells. So they are as familiar as anybody with these cases. They know that that jail is sitting full of people who are just broke. Right. I've got calls from Whitesburg and from,

so because I worked with the Kentuck Kentucky for the Commonwealth at that point, people are familiar with me and I're still being paid. And people are like, why can't they just get them out? Everybody cannot afford that. And so that's why I'm saying this is a unifying issue for our state. If ever we were looking for something to help bridge the urban and rural divide, this is one of those things that can help us bridge it because there is a line that we connect to when we can see and understand that these people, like you said, and there needs to be people like you saying it, there needs to be everybody saying it. You're holding these people because they are poor and you're keeping them in a punitive way so that when you offer them these conditions of release or these deals or these

plea deals, it's not in the best interest of them. It's you. So when I did a tour of the Chicago jail, which is like a prison, it's huge in Cook County. We have a site there and my counterpart, Matthew McCarlin is running that site up there and getting the blues as they're trying to reduce, release people, which I don't get. Because even if you take it to a financial aspect, which a lot of people like to do, and I get it, our cities are in deficits. And eighty three dollars a day with an average day of twenty three days for everybody that's incarcerated. Now, if you add on an addiction issue, a health care issue, that's an additional three hundred dollars at least added on. So we have invested almost seven million million into bailing people out. Those 2,000 plus people we bailed out. We've gotten over half of that back. We're about 51% we've

gotten back. So we run a revolving bail fund. That means that you get out, we pay $1,000 to get you out. Once your case is done, it goes back into our fund. We can use that thousand dollars for two more times. So up to three, two to three times to get more people out as the money recycles, because the County only keeps $25. That's not a refundable. So the rest comes back. So we have a better return rate than the courts, the courts, AOC, like the administrative release, they're at about 77 percent. When I last heard our Commonwealth attorney, Tom Wine, say their return rate was 77 percent. Our return rate hovers between 90 and 93 percent. So these are who we pay for, who we don't know, who are not dog to bounty hunter. We're not going to go chase them. We're not dog to bounty hunter. We're not going to go chase them if they don't have the

money. We're going on good faith. We're restoring faith into the justice system or at least some hope. And we got a better return rate than they do on the people they deem non-violent or they deem releasable. And I'm glad that you brought up this issue of violence. That's what I'm saying. The timing of this is perfect. Our country is violent. The police is violent. Poverty and being poor can be violent. Absolutely. So you wanna hold people on this.

Even religion is valid. You know, you read the Bible and you read the stories and all of these religions, they all deal with some type of violence at some point. Just like they all meet it, taking care of people. They all meet it. Some type of violence happened to prove some point. It's like they all meet it, taking care of people. They all meet it. Some type of violence happened to prove your point. So you're asking, you got all these other religious institutions, business, all this government, all this stuff that are violent,

but you're trying to hold people who don't have a control of a lot of their situations. Or if you're not going to change what they're going home to, how are you going to kind of say, I'm going to hold this person because they're valid? Are you going to go to their neighborhood and make it all pretty and nice and all of the things that it needs to not be valid? Are you going to make sure it's a non-valid place? No. So everybody runs the risk. I said this in a meeting with some judges.

Anybody that's being released pre-trial, if you haven't changed the conditions of what got them arrested, anybody is a danger, not a danger, anybody is in jeopardy of reoffending if you haven't set up the resources, the warm handoffs, the things that they need. anybody is in jeopardy of reoffending. This state rep, for example, who allegedly committed domestic violence and strangled his wife,

he gets locked up. $25,000 bail. This is an elected official, a state rep. I remember this. Bail. He's out. You're going to tell me he's not a threat? That was violent.

That was what they deem as violent. Didn't he hog tie his wife? I'm pretty sure that's what the paper said. Anyway, we don't have to go down this road. Because he can pay $25,000. He's not a threat. We've got now people who have been in jail for two months

or a month on a $25 surety bond. That's like you saying, I'm Tanya. I know Shamika. Shamika will come back to court. I'll sign this document. I'll pay $25. I know that you're going to hold

$1,000 over my head if Shamika doesn't come back to court. But right now I could pay $25 to get Shamika's freedom. I'm going to do that because I know Tanya, I know Shamika, and I'm going to get her out. We had people who sat in there for months on a $25 surety bond. Now they don't have somebody to come up and pay a surety bond. Yeah, that's rough. You wonder why they're in there? We had people held on $250. Well, you add the $25 fee $275. Excuse me, two weeks sitting in there. And that's even you know, you talk about recidivism and re re re. I forget what you said, but what you called it. re uh i forget what you said but um what you called it reoffending yeah that's not even to get into the long list of our corrupt laws like what is what what is an offense what is the fence

and who and who's being watched right like who's being watched to see who's offending like whose communities are targeted and umed under surveillance constantly. Yeah. Overcharging is the number one reason why you see a lot of black and brown people and poor people, poor white people in jail. But when they get in there and that bell is set, you and I can go with the same exact charge and we're going to have two different results. My bill is probably

going to be higher than your bill that's that's just no doubt and that and and so you're right so many baked in injustices and then the whole people to this one accord uh on balance it was valid was not what if they would turn a court fta'ss, whatever. If I am an affluent person, I can pay my legal defense to show up to court for me. But if I'm a poor person and my public defender or DPA shows up for me, you penalize me still. You still give me a bench warrant. You don't just reschedule my court date. But if I had a high top-notch lawyer, you're going to reschedule my court date. You're going to say, get her back in here and then you're going to be done. And so that is, so you're right. These injustices that are already baked in that already limits you having a bet, a good outcome. So what we're doing is at the front end, whether people like it or not, it's giving people a fighting chance. You

look much better fighting your case from outside of jail than fighting it from within. Because I told you, I had a witness. My ex-fiancee who got me incarcerated was there in a suit telling them, hey, I did this to her. I made her act like this. I provoked her. I ripped the phone off the wall. I did all these things. And that judge still looked at me and said, I don't care. There's no excuse for what you did because I'm I'm not allowed to defend myself in that way. Right. Well, just like you talked about this being especially bail reform, bail abolition and prison abolition in general, being a very uniting issue in Kentucky. You know, on Trailbillies, on our podcast, we've talked a lot about prison abolition being a uniting issue across the country.

There's no, I don't know that there's any other issue that hits at the crux of every other justice issue, racial justice, queer liberation, disability justice, certainly economic justice, and even environmental justice. Like we are being sold prisons where I live to go on old strip mines in places where people don't even have running water. You know what I mean? Like there, it's like across the country, prison abolition is an insanely intersectional issue like if we are ever to build some type of new world it's going to be without these human cages right and even immigration justice our borders not even to say how fucked up our borders are right now but before we get before we close out because i don't want to keep you all evening. I saw your kids bopping behind you a minute ago, and I want to let you go be with them.

I want to thank you so much for the work that you're doing with the Bell Project here in Kentucky, but also national. That connects Kentucky's work with such a beautiful national movement. And it's so cool to hear you're all right of people coming back. And it's because people are committed to each other. That shows that they want to send that down the line. back. And it's because people are committed to each other. Like that shows that they want to send that down the line. They know that that money is going to go to somebody else. You know, that's exactly what they tell us when we're interviewing them.

And a lot of them said that to me. They're like, Shamika, I'm going to come back because I want to. That is the biggest motivating factor. You talk about paying it forward. It's the essence of faith. It's the essence of faith. It's the essence of community. When I say to them, when you come back, you're that money that we spent on you goes to help the next person. Well, in the jail, I don't even have my business card right here. When we were in the jail, we started giving out our business card.

The one sometimes as time went on, it's like we went viral. They started calling us. And then when I would go to interview someone, they would have this weather tethered like business card and it was like barely holding up. And they tell me how that card got passed to them. And then I would wait at the exit lobby. We would wait and people would come out and they'd say, are you Shamika? I was like, yeah, are are you because i've been waiting for him to get out oh but your name is scratched in in the wall of right oh damn bones so it's crazy to me that and it's not crazy it's beautiful to me that at the worst point of your life you're there in jail it feels like shit like it's not there's no other feeling for it, but you're still thinking about the next person behind you. So they're getting out and they're passing that information. They're saying, contact the bill project, look them up, tell your fiance, tell your wife, tell somebody to contact them.

And then they're, they're, they're, they're paying it forward in that situation. So that may, that restores my faith in humanity. That restores my faith. And we don't need the prisons. We don't need them. The reality is a very different story that we're sold in pop media about who's in prison, what happens in prison, all this like violent bullshit. It's just it's a very different reality. And we have seen that all three of the hosts of this podcast, we do the calls from home radio show where we take calls from family members of people who

are incarcerated. And just like you were talking earlier, it's almost always women, mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives, daughters. That's who's serving time with these men in jail. That's who's putting money on their accounts. That's who we are building a relationship with over the phones, creating free ways for them to talk to each other. And all of the like, it just really changes the, you know, narrative about who is who's locked away. And it's not people, it's not the people who's been sold to us, like people that shouldn't be in our communities. These are sometimes the centers of our communities are being plucked right out of them. And, you know, we have grandmoms calling and singing gospel songs. It's just so beautiful.

And it's also, well, it's also, well, it's not, it's not able to happen right now because of COVID. No one's able to go into the damn radio station. So that's what I wanted to kind of bring it back to was around like what actions are happening right now. You mentioned Freedom Fridays. I know you get to go pick up your brother next week and I hope he is on his way to recovery. I couldn't believe it when you said that in less than a month away from his release, he

got COVID in a jail. I know that at Green River here in Kentucky, we have dozens, over 100 now, maybe, inmates and staff with COVID-19. It's horrendous. It's just like a horror story playing out. And anyone could have predicted it, especially in prisons, right? Anyone could have predicted that anything like this, they should have acted immediately. Exactly. Like the nursing homes where it's been brought into them. And I don't know if you talked to Amanda Hall, but even with the,

the, um, the person that happened in Green River, the way the news put it out there that he was died alone. We worked with the special project that I was telling you about and the Louisville family justice advocate. We work with his namesake, his son. I worked with his son, Lafayette Mitchell, all the time. And he's an artist. He's a local artist. And he knew his dad was in jail. And so they didn't even get that right.

He does have family that care for him, that was checking for him, that wanted to be with him. He does have that. They never tell the stories. They never get it right. No. And I said I was trash reporting reporting they didn't do enough homework we work with them every day and i've been working with that son for like four years and i knew he was a teenager when he joined he's in youth build our local youth program i wanted to say we've been so on on actions that's happening, the thing with the Kentucky Council of Churches, Kentucky KSEP, Kentucky Council for Economic Policy,

Beer Justice Institute, ACLU Smart Justice, LSURGE, Special Project, Louisville Family Justice Advocate, Louis Louisville Urban League, Lexington Urban League, all of us have been working together on issues as they arise. If we need a letter to a specific jail, if we need letters, we have letters to the governor, we have letters to the mayor, we have letters to everyone that we as a community sign on to. And it's made a difference. We have, so we are trying to contact all of the elected officials when it's legislation. We have been up there. If it's bad legislation, we work together to say, here's why this is bad. I have judges who message me and say that bill will not help me get people out more people. It'll help keep more people in. I know that there's prosecutors who are trying to be on the right side of this issue, but they don't have the support that they need.

I believe everybody has a role in this work. And I think that you are so right. If ever there was an issue in our nation that impacts everyone because racism, we got to work on that shit forever. Girl, that shit is going to outlive our lifetimes and we're going to do what we can and work on it. But I'm talking about something tangible, something we can wake up every day. I can wake up and go out here and feed somebody. I can wake up and go out here and make sure somebody's freedom is free by bailing them out of jail. So I think that that's what makes our work attractive, but I want to keep it that way. I don't want it to be just a fad. Oh, this criminal justice reform is cute right now. And bailing people out is cute. We've done it. It's not done. It's been doing so many years. You got all of these groups that are

working on innocence projects and all of these things because it's real overcharging, overbooking, over sentencing. It is just lays on top of the problem, on top of the problem. So continue to work with all those groups. Folks can go to bailproject.org and get involved. We even have a site that's called After Cash Bail. So we are envisioning what things will look like after cash bail. And we realize that cash bail is just one piece of this puzzle, but it's a very strong piece and it's helping us get the data we need to move the people. You and I don't need that data to know what's up, but some people need it. Some stakeholders need it. And so we need to have that data so they can see here's who's being

locked up. Who's here's who's been unjustly sentenced. Here's who's been overcharged. Here's who's, who's keep getting over, um, um, bills that they can't afford. Here's the kids that are affected by that. Here's the kids that are affected by that. Here's the communities that are affected by that. Here's what happens when you pull, like you said, these powerful people out of these communities. Here's what happens. And so all of this is connected. And so us working together, I do things from a coalition standpoint, because I know we are stronger together and we get there together. So we're talking about poverty is not a crime. We're talking about freedom should be free. We're talking about in cash bills and more than a hashtag, more about what we're living every day to do. I have people who work within the system, police officers, prosecutors, all these people who

message me who can't have a voice like we do right now, who can't talk about the issues the way we do because it's connected to everything else they got going on. And I always say it's my job as an organizer to help you see where you can tap into this work and do what you need to do without losing your home, without losing your job, because people of faith can do that together as a group. What you're going to say to this whole church that's coming to you and tell you, let's get these people out. What are you going to say to that whole church? What are you going to do to that one individual? So we are stronger together. And I believe in meeting people where they are, whatever level that they can give and contribute to the work they can.

And even if that's just donating, there's opportunities to do that. But right now we've stepped up our game and we're helping people that are released. We've gotten some extra funding with emergency housing, with cell phones. And you wouldn't believe, people are like, cell phones? Yeah. But when the libraries close, where do people go to do their applications? Where do they go to connect to wraparound services? It's so much to take for granted, which is like I told you in the beginning, when you're working and you're in the mix of it, you sometimes are disconnected from that, right? I don't know my life without a cell phone. I haven't known my life without a cell phone in 20 years. So it's just, it means that we have to meet people where they are. We have to create

spaces for folks to get involved in our work. We have to support the groups that are doing great things like your podcast, everything that's happening here that needs to be shared. We have to multiply that and get that out to people. And we have to make sure that when people come and show up with the right energy, we put them to work. I mean, that's, it's nothing like saying, Hey, Shamika, I want to come help your organization. How can I get involved? And you get no follow-up and you get nobody reaching out. And even if it's delayed or late, when you don't get that, it changes you. Like I have this energy to give right now. Maybe I just want to donate these 12 pairs of shoes

to people who are being released. We got to be ready to receive people to do that. And that's a challenge for all of our organizations. When we talk about nonprofit industrial complex, we can't just be like, yeah, we can stay in our lane if it's environmental justice and that's our lane, but it's also our job to help show the interconnectedness, the intersectional pieces of this. We intersect around poverty. We intersect around incarceration. We intersect around racism. And so that is our job to do what we can. Everybody can't do a podcast, right? But they can share, they can get people to come on. When you were talking to me, I was thinking about all the other people that I want you to talk to. I want you to talk to the Justice Group. I don't know if you know about them, but we did some

panels and we did some research stuff with them. And I watch because they talk about how this impacts the women. And I know that that's something that unifies women from Letcher County to Jefferson County to Madison County. Madison approved to build a forty five million dollar jail. You know, they called on us to help them against that fight. We showed up with the case up in and the Kentucky Council of Churches. We tried to aid a hand and do that. But yeah, the people got duped, like you said, when they hear that it's a job, when they hear this is going to boost our economy.

Then they think, oh, but what else comes with that? Forty five million and their current jail held like 200 and something. This was going to make them be able to hold 800 and 900 we have to talk and i want you to look into and i'll send you the reports i have but the counties make money through yeah duration right because the prison the kentucky prison system has people that they hold so even like at je Jefferson County now, there's 1,200 and there's over 1,200 people. About two to 300 of those people are doing Department of Corrections time. They're DOC. But everybody else is being held pre-trial cash bail unless, turn that phone off, unless they're being held pre-child cash bail unless they're

serving a county time you don't have many people who are serving time in the county but some that are and then you have people that's home incarceration but the counties is what i'm told they're willing to let it be overcrowded because of the money that they're making and it's hard for them to turn away that money so tanya when you when you mentioned that early on, I was like, she is right on it. I saw reports where it was like, yeah, we're over one hundred and forty five percent over capacity. But we you know, what do they do? And I don't blame the people that have to work for these systems as I blame the leadership that has these spaces for that. And we had at one point our local jail director saying we have, we, we house the largest drug treatment facility. That's a lie. Incarceration is not a fun place to be. It's not treatment.

And you're not changing the conditions that they're coming home to. And you're not changing them. I asked some of the clients, what do you get in the detox floor? Well, we, I said detox because it's cleaner and I get gatorade and aspirin that's not drug treatment there's a bare minimum chance to be in this crowded ass pod or dorm and then you tell me yeah if you're fighting some type of addiction you can come over here it's cleaner i get my lunch on time i get gatorade and aspirin. I'm going to tell you that. And so not to knock that they're trying and are creating these spaces in there, but jail is about pre-trial incarceration. They're not being rehabilitated during that process.

And I get it. Some of the state reps, when we were in some of those judiciary hearings said, well, people in my county, they thank me for keeping them in jail. They want me to keep them in jail. I mean, we've called some families and they said, keep her there. I said, you know that this is punitive, right? And this jail can let her out at her court date next week. So you don't want to fuck the courts for letting them out. I mean, the courts can let them out, but if we do it, courts for letting them out. I mean, the courts can let them out, but if we do it, if we remove that obstacle, then we're the problem. The problem is the way in the rate that they incarcerate people in the first place. So yeah, we have state leaders who are saying, my constituents like that we keep people in jail. And that's why they won't budge hardly on this. Well, yeah. And they've been selling their constituents a lot about who's locked up anyway.

And because they want people to be afraid of each other. That's how they get elected. It's a whole shit show. I know the National Bell Project just had their Mother's Day event, the Black Mama bailouts. That was really beautiful. I was trying to follow those this Mother's Day. And then you all have been doing the Freedom Friday drives, right, around Jefferson County Jail. So, you know, before we sign off, I want to let you make sure you tell

people where they can get a hold of you or a hold of the Bell Project. We have listeners all over the country and maybe even further out than that. Who knows? But I'd say that there are people who are pretrial, who could be out on bail in every county jail, in every county,

in every county jail in this country. So this is all happening. This is happening right in people's backyards, right where they're at. And they may even know these people. That's right. And so they can reach us at the bail project.org. B-A-I-L project, P-R-O-J-E-C-T.org. I'm Shameka Parrish Wright. I'm an operations manager. But if you go under team, you can find me there. But my email is Shamika, S-H-A-M-E-K-A, P for parish and W for right at bellproject.org.

And you can reach out and I'll give you my number, contact. I'm on all the social medias. People message me all the time to help. And we have helped people even from Facebook, even from Instagram. We will work with whoever we can. We're really trying to reduce the numbers in the jail. That is our main goal. And we're also focusing on connecting people to resources because we know that people who get out and have the resources that they need are less likely to recidivate or deal with a lot of the other issues that we see

coming back into the system. And if we don't have the resources there, then that's a failure of our community. And so we need to stick together and make sure that we're providing that. But yeah, we did work with the Vernon Avenue Baptist Church. They donated $10,000 and we matched that to get 22 people out for Mother's Day. I definitely support National Mamas Day, bail out all the other organizations that are working to bail people out. We're not in competition. There's too many people that we got to bail out. We've bailed out nationally over 10,000 people. And it's hard, you know, it's hard because we, people are always looking for ways to say, do it better, do it better. But we are an organization that is listening to the community,

that is working with the community to get it right. Nobody's perfect. We're not perfect. And we cannot predict somebody's future. A judge can't predict it. A prosecutor can't predict it. A lawyer, we have to just give people what they need and hope that they take advantage of those resources and use them. And so I'm happy that this conversation has happened. I'm so proud of you and your work. Look at us 10 years later. One of my children that's standing outside of me is James, who I had while at KFTC. And one of the things is like, I know back then I was thinking about, man, KFTC, there's all these challenges. It's challenges being a statewide organization. But I will say the most endearing things happened when I had my youngest son and he had all of these complications.

applications and everybody on the team donated their sick time to me so that I can have more than six weeks off with my son who had to stay in ICU for over 30 days. I've never had a job like that. And so once you've gotten a real job, you can't just accept anything. So I'm like, wait, I had a real job. I got to go home and breastfeed my kids. I got to come back to work. I got healthcare. I was paying $7.50 every two weeks. That's unheard of now for my whole family. So I do got to give KFTC a shout out for that. It was really nice to be working and having a decent salary as well as the benefits that I needed to move forward and bring my family forward. Now I have three graduates and three kids I'm trying to get through school. And so that time was well spent at KFTC. So I want to give them a shout out for that.

And good jobs with justice. And then that's how I met you with KFTC. Well, and yeah, workers deserve all that and more. And now KFTC's organizers are organizing. They are organizing a union right now. So shout out to the KFDC Workers Union. We support them. We support workers everywhere.

It's a big deal for Kentucky nonprofit workers to be organizing for each other. I didn't know that. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, it's really good. Thank you so much for spending this time with me. This was so lovely. Even though it's a hard topic and a lot of hard truths to hold on to in this already hard time in the world. But thank you so much for all you're doing.

And I want to send a lot of love through you to your brother as he recovers from COVID-19 at the end of his sentence. And as you pick him up next week, it's so exciting and so happy for your family. Thank you. I've taken a whole week off. So, you know, there'll be some shit. Yes, good. Y'all have a big outcome. I'll send you some information from the reports and things that I've worked on just for you to check out.

And some people who I think you should have on, too, more deep you know we have our organizational role so we when we talk about abolition we can only go so deep as an official represent representative of an organization but there's people are full-time on abolition and ways we can work together I see this bail reform piece it's just one piece of that so sure of course thank you so much all right y'all all right this has been uh look at all your babies hi

thank you thanks so much uh y'all um this is triblies workers party uh in a little kentucky incarceration bonus episode. You can find us on the social medias, too, and at Patreon. Nice.

Thanks again, Shemeika. Bye.