Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 12: Sexy Sex Miseducation (w/ special guest: Jenny Williams)

Episode Date: June 9, 2017

In episode 12, our favorite Hazardian Jenny Williams stops by the show with a bomb-ass quiche and chats with us about peppermint swirls, the Hands of God, and 3-way (or 15-way) phone sex.

Wow. It's delicious. Thank you, Jenny. My quiches do not have a crust. That's a walnut crust. It's delicious. It's a press-in-the-pan crust. So, I told Tom, Jenny Williams is our best guest. Because I brought food. Because she brought food. It's the only thing we like more than drugs. Good God. You have feta on your...

Feta. Is that how you say it? Is that how you say it? I don't really know. Good God. You have feta on your... Actually, I think that's your father. Feta. Is that how you say it? Is that how you say it? I don't really know. Feta. Feta? Is what I say.

Feta, yeah. That's probably right. I'm also from a line of people who don't cook with feta cheese, so it's not in our tradition. It's extraordinarily white, and it's not really in my tradition either, but when you can buy feta in the cheese aisle at Food City, I think it becomes part of your tradition. Right. So good.

Thank you. Thanks. When I make quiche, I don't do a crust, so I call it a hillbilly quiche because it's more like a fatata or something. Yeah. A lot of different names for things. That looks like an amazing crust. So good.

You made that out of walnuts? It is pretty good. Yes, I did. Out of walnuts. It's walnuts and like a little cornmeal and some flour and then an ass load of butter. And then, you know, you just chill a little bit and then you can't really roll it. It's pretty. And you just press it in your hand. Thanks. I enjoy it. You're a saint among sinners, Jenny Williams. The crust is

like light and flaky and compliments the kale. There's two different. So there's one, there's kale. The one with the kale has feta cheese, which really, I'm not even sure that this cheese is actually feta, because you're used to feta being kind of crumbly, and this is not a show about food, but I'll just say this. It's kind of a smooth, creamy, but I really like it. And then it's got kale on it. It's bound with a little bit of egg.

And then the other one's a more traditional eggy quiche with mustard, red peppers, and ricotta. I love your... For all the purists out there. So good. I could just listen to you for a full hour-long podcast describe food. We used to.

We used to do that. What's cooking now? Look, let me just bring us all home here we're not here to talk about food we're here to talk about sex now there are a lot of parallels between like i i think for me cooking for people can be as intimate as sex yeah and it's meaningful and sometimes more fun there comes a time when you ladies got to start earning those spaghetti dinners. Maybe I could rework the way I said that. I think you might want to.

Someone told a joke in the building this morning. I didn't hear the joke, but I came in and heard, well, you just lost five points on your PC meter. I was like, what? Who said that? I don't know. But, you know I mean you know it is

so I'm always I'm we'll state for the record that I am not a prostitute let the record show let's get out in front of that let the record show let's get out in front of that

yeah we'll put that in the show description but I don't understand why it's illegal to be a prostitute because I don't really see a difference between somebody

who just gives really good blowjobs. That's a service they're providing. There is no difference between that and me making that quiche right there. Well, I saw that this might have been a tweet even, but someone comparing prostitution to coal mining and it was like, if you don't think that

coal miners sell their bodies and you think prostitutes do, you have a fucked up view of labor or like something else. I think it was you have a fucked up view of sex. I think is what the... I know what you're talking about.

I've seen that meme. Of sex? I don't know. I thought that's what it said. Maybe not. What does coal mining have to do with sex? I was just... From my memory,

I thought that's what it was. You're comparing coal miners and prostitutes. No, I think the implication of the meme is that they both do labor. It's just that one of them, their labor is sex. So if you're putting a value judgment on that. This is just my interpretation of the meme, but I don't. But cooking's an even closer parallel, though, right? Selling your body for money yeah because you know i

mean for most people right sex some of the time all the time none of the time but we expect sex to have like this moral value and this emotional value attached to it in this certain weight and that i guess it's so fucking precious you know that you can't ever sell it you know but i mean i feel as strongly about cooking for people as i do about fucking them know that you can't ever sell it you know but i mean i feel as strongly about cooking for people as i do about fucking them sometimes like you wouldn't sell your cooking you prefer i prefer not to that's exactly right so i used to say all the time that there are two things i don't do for money that's what i i mind cooking is one of them and then i thought i should stop saying that because that's kind of insulting to people who do cook for money. And I don't mean it to me.

That's true, yeah. But I mean, yeah. This is drawing an image in my head of the time that you did a What's Cooking Now live show in Tom and Terrence's apartment. It was so much fun. It was so much fun. That was a good show. It was definitely the most sexual of the What's Cooking food. It was called Food to Seal the Deal. And Jonathan Piercy and I chose dishes that could get you laid.

Oh, I remember this now. You said, because you said no garlic. No, no, no. I didn't say that. We both, both of us. No, what Jonathan and I said was that some people say, oh, don't use garlic if you're trying to get laid. What Jonathan and I said is, we don't want to fuck you if you don't like garlic.

That's a deal breaker. You are out of here. I'm not going to fuck you if you don't like garlic. That's pretty close to the top. You made chicken carbonara. I made, yep, I did. I made carbonara because that's something that you can whip up and eat in bed. And Jonathan did something that he set on fire. Remember that? Like some drink that you set on fire. But you talked about the shower a lot because there's a really hot shower in that apartment. Yeah, yeah. And I remember you saying multiple times that you would definitely go after Tom and or Terrence. Just based on that apartment.

But you try not to fuck people who you could have also birthed. Yes. That's just a somewhat arbitrary. That's a bad rule. I don't know. You know, there are people that have that weird... There's some weird formula, like half your age plus seven.

Yeah, something like that. What makes this shit up? Crazy people. Who knows? And it's so gendered. It's fine for some old white guy to marry some 18-year-old girl. I would disagree. I mean, I think it's very creepy but you're right society at large i think thinks it's fine yeah in a disturbing way

but that really speaks to just how we are so weird about sex like even if we think and when i say we here i mean me like you know even if i think like i'm really open-minded and i'm really clear about things you know and i'm i still have these really fucked up attitudes right like my friend charlotte says that the best way to end teenage pregnancy is to give every 15 year old girl in america a vibrator because there is it's you there's certainly no 15 year old boys that can live up to a good vibrator. And there are very few men. And think about it.

I myself only have two speeds. I mean, just think about that. Think about that for a minute, all right? So, all right, so think about this. As girls, right? And I'm going to make some sweeping generalizations here and also some cis normative gender violations or whatever. But for the most part, I think we can agree that many girls, right, that they want to have sex because they want to be loved. They want to be admired. They want to be right. Yeah.

Or their friends are doing it or their friends are doing it or they see it as some kind of power, you know, or something like that. And most boys do it because it feels really good. or something like that. And most boys do it because it feels really good. So imagine if we took a whole generation of girls and they didn't have to seek approval or pleasure, which they probably aren't going to get anyway when it comes to pleasure with teens, right? They don't have to seek it.

They can just hit a button and give it to themselves. Right. What kind of, how would that, I mean, that's a really core part of your person, right? Yeah. The ability to make yourself orgasm is, seems to me like a really, part of your person, right? Yeah. The ability to make yourself orgasm seems to me like a really... The epitome of self-care. The epitome of...

Don't get me started. Can we put a pin in that and can we... Here's another question I hate. Can we circle back to self-care in a minute? We can for sure circle back. I have some things to say about that. But how would it be different if girls grew up not feeling they had to seek approval, not feeling like they had to find... Like they were supposed to seek pleasure, and then like they had failed somehow miserably because most teenage boys and many adult men are too stupid to find a clitoris if you give them a roadmap.

I just think it would work. But what I was going to say, you know, hypocritical, right, for me, because, so I think, and I'll say that, but I'm, by God, I'm not, I don't feel like I can go buy my daughter a vibrator. Yeah. Well, you know, the way I see it is, can't they go about it analog for a while? You know, like you can get yourself off without a vibrator, I feel like. But it takes, yeah. I think having good conversations with young women and men, I guess, about how to care for yourself. Like, talk to her about looking at her vagina, like,

you know, knowing her body, exploring her own body before you give her a toy. But then, you know. That's probably well put. That's probably a good idea. I think I'll go that route. I'm going to take that parenting advice. Is that as, you two haven't been teenage girls before, is that as

instinctual as it is for guys? No, I think you definitely have to as it is for guys? What? No, I think you definitely have to figure it out. I don't think so. Yeah. The vagina's pretty hard to get to. It's like not in a spot where it's not an easy, yeah, there's not a lot of easy access. If you try hard, you can ignore it completely and just pretend it isn't even there, which I'm afraid some people do.

And you have to be very intentional. It's not like you just wake up with a boner and you grab it in your sleep and you're off. It's a little different. Yeah. It's quite different. But I wonder if there's an equal amount of shame around it. Yeah, probably. I feel like there's a lot of shame around young boys masturbating, isn't there?

I feel like girls just do it all the time. Did you talk about masturbation when you were a teenager? I said no. No. In high school, no. I didn't know anyone who said they were masturbating. So, I have one of my very best friends, whose name I won't mention, taught all of us how to masturbate. She taught all of us. Wow.

That is so lucky. We were like 12. And she showed us how to like to sit and to lean on her arms and then like from there we all kind of that's as far as she went right I'm trying really really really hard to imagine

the male equivalent of just a bunch of teenage boys sitting around watching an older dude just jerk off. I mean, you know what? Maybe I'm... She was your age. She was your age. Yeah, we were all 12.

They were all the same age. We were all 12, and in my mind, it was less like a circle joke and more like watching... There were like five of us there, and it was like watching five people discover our clitorises.

Yeah, it's like... For the first time, it was like, oh, my God. I'm going to circle back to that. Explore that some more later. That seems cool. Yeah, your friend just shows up one day. I didn't know my body did that.

Like, hey, I found this thing I need to show you. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah. How sweet of her to like share that. She's a very giving person. God. Very much so.

That's amazing. I'm going to call her and thank her. Yeah, really. On the show. I'm going to call her and thank her. On the show. She's like, uh, thank you. It's Wednesday, I'm on my way to church. That was

from a phase. Has your daughter asked you about her clitoris or anything like that? No. No. has your daughter asked you about her clitoris or anything like that no um no she might listen maybe she doesn't want you to i'm probably not sure that i listen to this really but you know she's only 11 and she's pretty like she i feel it kind of feels like kids just know things yeah without being told but i've been, you know, I mean, I tell her things. Yeah. When I do sex ads, I find that the younger people ask real bizarre, like, logistical questions that aren't like.

Like what? Like, do you have to shower before sex? They've asked me that. You know what I mean? It's just like real bizarre. And I'm like, well, that's a good question. Probably good probably good practice you have to burn incense

should you pray sacrifice what are some other questions wait wait what do you say to the showering question I said that's like well I think that's a personal preference I think it's really important to shower after sex probably even more important to get clean.

I don't know. Because I talk a lot about needing to pee. I say never shower. You really should pee. Pee is good. But everybody wants to. Doesn't everybody like to wallow around in sex? I kind of like to bask in the afterglow.

Yeah. I said you might want to shower after. On the spectrum, I'm going to say I'm probably the most hippie person among the four of us. And yeah, I say never shower. It's bad for your immune system. But I'm with you on the pee. I told her it was personal preference. I was like, you know, you've worked out with your partner.

I shouldn't have gotten into this, but I was like, maybe you can shower together. She was like a teenager. There's an idea. I immediately wanted to reel that back in. Lather him down. She's like a teenager. I immediately wanted to reel that back in. To walk that back in. Lather him down. She's like, stop. What are some other questions?

Well, sometimes they ask me, and I think they're just trying to get me to break or something to be like, oh, God. But they'll ask me, hey, do you know what a peppermint swirl is i don't i don't know i didn't either i didn't either until tanya told me this story i googled it afterwards should i google it or something you can explain here it's terrible i mean you could imagine it and you know a peppermint is red and white okay okay i'll google it yeah it's pretty fucking nasty. I don't know. I'm going to call this episode the Peppermint Swirl. Episode 12, the Peppermint Swirl. Peppermint Swirl.

Introduce it like Ira Glass. It happens during menstruation. Yeah. Tight. Isn't there another sex act called the Dirty Sanchez? No, that's something different, isn't it? We could do a whole show talking about this shit. Good.

Yeah, it's a fine line because, you know, you're just obviously going to be turned off by different things. We all have turn offs. But it's a fine line not to, like, shake. I hate to. Kink shame? Is that the word you're thinking of? Yeah, kink shame.

That's it. Hate to kink shame. We're not kink shaming. But damn. We're not a kink shaming podcast. No, we're definitely not. We're the opposite of a kink sh is that the word you're thinking of? kink shame that's it hate the kink shame we're not kink shaming we're not a kink shaming podcast we're the opposite of a kink shaming podcast shame is our kink but what you were saying earlier y'all were talking

something about do you think there's a difference between teenage boys and teenage girls and do they feel shame I feel like all sort of sexual socialization in this country is centered around shame like for boys and girls for everybody and the whole gender spectrum everybody just the way we're taught taught about it the messages that we're sort of supposed to internalize about it from a very young age or at least for me i don't know i mean it's probably it could be different for a lot of other people but if you grew up in the church that's what it is

it's all shame it really is and it's like i mean so in sweden i think is where they have the lowest teen pregnancy right and they start some sort of sex ed it's not called that it's called something else but in kindergarten so that's like a life skill they teach every year author school um you have some type of relationship but building the capacity to be in intimate relationships with people it's like emotional capacity consent how to love how it feels to love how to ask for love and like so much yeah because so much about sex really is communication right like so much of the root of it is how to talk and listen how to like explain how you're feeling and what you want and what you're thinking and to listen to people and like hear what they're

saying and it's just like i mean it's almost impossible to get communication right but to at least and we separate relationships and sex and teaching on relationships and teaching on sex like those are two completely different things right yeah right yeah and you sent an article to me today that i read and and it was kind of irritating oh yeah yeah like it was like um you know you should teach this why and then it would give a little explanation and say try this and it would have like a strategy that you could get and i was like this whole article assumes that first of all i fucking know my way around a healthy relationship which clearly i do not and second of all that if i did i could verbalize that for my child and one of the things was to talk to your children about examples of loving positive

relationships and then it said you might want to use examples from TV. Yeah. They also thought that in the 80s and look how Bill Cosby turned out. Right? I mean, if I have to use fictional characters to teach my child, my children, both children, about healthy relationships, then there's something very wrong with the people with whom I've surrounded myself. That's not good. Yeah, especially because I feel like they they really separate out and of course there are differences but the capacity to be intimate with someone is not about romance you know what I mean like I I have to figure out the right level of communication and understanding and whatever with my mom like all of us we're like

all in these relationships together all the people we're in relationship with like and and all the examples in that article like you're talking about it's all like we were saying it's all sexual and also work this out with your best friend yeah practice with your best friend or like practice with your sister someone because um i my friend and i talk about this all the time about how when we're back with our families we resort to just like our like caveman style uh childhood communication like me and my sister were together for just like four days over the weekend and we were yelling at each other and i was just like i never yell at people this is not a thing oh yeah we fall into our family roles yeah like

my sister, she was like yelling at me because I wasn't moving fast enough to get us to food because she was hungry. She was like, I haven't eaten in six hours. It's like, do you fucking talk to people like this in your adult life? Is this how you deal with people? No, only your sisters. Yeah, only your sisters.

That whole falling back into those patterns works out really well for me because I'm the youngest of six and I'm, you know, kind of everybody's favorite. So I'm pretty good with that. But I can see how in other cases it might be slightly problematic. I'm the oldest and my sisters are twins. Oh, wow. Really?

Oh, yeah. I'm a complete, I'm trash. Man. Anything goes wrong, anything goes wrong, it is my fucking fault. I did it. I mean, I won't even be there. And when I show up, it's my, everybody's mad at me. Where you been?

But back to something you were saying earlier. Do you, so do you think that in your life that you are surrounded more by people who are in bad relationships than good relationships? I feel like. When I read that article, I started to think about that and I decided not to think about it. I'm not sure I'm ready for that level

of self-reflection. But yeah, I think I am. And I think. But you know what, Tom? That's really fucked up. Maybe we're not just surrounded by people

who are in bad relationships. We just aren't surrounded by that many people who are in these fucking Disney ideal relationships that hardly anybody has. We have unrealistic expectations. Well, I was going to say, I think that this is, I think that, I don't know, I think society

is so sort of atomized in general. Like we don't have a whole lot of systems of support for people in individual relationships or anything anymore. I think that if you like 500 years ago, that probably would have been a lot different. You've got a little village and you've got support systems and networks. I don't know. I don't see it that way at all. I think more like 500 years ago,

you've got the village and you'll be stoned and killed if you decide you want to go fuck somebody else. In some places. In some places. But I mean, humans in a vacuum, I think, want to help each other. And I think that we live in a vacuum, I think, want to help each other. And I think that we live in a society that has so sort of atomized individuals that we have these very closed off relationships from other people.

I don't know. I think that a good part of maintaining a healthy relationship is also maintaining a healthy relationship to your community. Yeah. And if you don't have that, like, you may not, I don't know, you may. I need to think about that. I could be, I could.

I mean, I think you've got something there, Tom. Terrence, you called me Tom twice. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You've got something there, Terrence. D-Ray. But I don't, I don't know about that.

Well, I think you're right that it's just unrealistic expectations like there isn't a perfect relationship I think healthy just means that people can talk through things communicate well probably and I think it's healthy looks like people have their own

support systems like Terrence is saying like people know how to get support and know when to ask for it. Yeah, because, like, if I'm talking, if me and my partner are going through something and I'm, like, talking to my friends trying to get some feedback about it, trying to understand it better, and they're not, I feel like I'm evolving in the situation and they're just, like, in the same situation. I'm like, like, I wish you would talk to someone and, like, get some perspective on what is happening. I feel like that only applies to smaller relationship issues, though. You know what I mean? Because I don't really want all my girlfriends knowing that, you know, whatever.

That makes sense. You know what I mean? But you know, I dated somebody, and there were already some alarm bells. Always. Always the red flags. There were some red flags,. Always the red flags. There were some red flags, which I stupidly ignored. Yeah, definitely.

And I have embarked on a year of celibacy. Oh. Yeah. How's that for you? Well. Chart your journey for us there, Captain. So in October, I ended a relationship that was incredibly toxic for me. And I just decided I'm not, I'm just, I'm going to, for a year, I'm just not going to, I'm not going to be in a relationship.

Right. And so maybe my sex drive got broken. Maybe your resolve is just so strong. I am not a person that has strong resolve. Oh my God, that's not it. Do you feel more powerful? Do you have more power? I feel more energy. And I'm sure

that this won't last forever. And it's probably also some crazy perimenopause hormone thing. But I feel much more I feel more focused. Oh, loosened up. That's what I meant. Do you have more? I really do. And i feel more like i'm

able to really pay attention to those relationships that i really want to nurture and take care of my daughter my friends you know i feel like i'm really being much more directed right those monks were on something so is this the first time in your life that you have ever suppressed sex? Yes. The sexual drive? Yes. See, I spent like a good four or five years just repressing the urge. Really?

Yeah, not having sex. Why? We were Christians. Because we're Christians. I once went six months without jacking off. What? I mean, and I'm talking like... Why would you do that? In the throes of the ages

when you start taking those long showers, I was like, no, I'm not going to do this. How would you keep from it? You had to stop showering. Well, I've never had any. This is why Terrence never showers. It was a habit. It was inculcated in him during this time. It's just that one of the temptations.

I don't see how you could. I've never had a nocturnal release. I don't know. I guess I was just, yeah. Huh. I just feel like. Terrence on the other hand. Oh, man.

You're the granddad of the nocturnal release. That's so funny. That didn't happen to you? Never. Really? Not once. Are you serious? I would go a week or two and not jerking off, release. That's so funny. That didn't happen to you? Never. Really? I would go like a week or two and not jerking off and it would start happening to me again. In fairness though, I started

You come in the middle of the night? In your sleep. It's a boy thing. The shit. It's like you have fantasies and it's like you're having sex. But if you jerked off, that wouldn't happen? But if I were jerked off, if I didn't jerk off that would happen So it's like

So it was really a preventative Aid to really help Your family not have to do as much laundry I think that's a kindness We should be teaching young boys Listen Two dozen laundry in your house do them a favor Go ahead and indulge in that shower

Have you never heard of this? No. Really? Well, now that I think about it, now that I think about it, one guy has told me about this, but he didn't have sex. I mean, I think it's a normal teenage thing. Oh, it's totally normal. I remember reading about it in parenting books. I'm really worried about it.

What's really funny, though, is having the, it's having Christian parents Well my parents were never really that Christian But being surrounded by people that know That it's normal But you're dreaming you have no conscious Decision over it so it's actually

A really hilarious sort of Like problem for The Christian You don't have to repent of it You don't have to repent of nocturnal emissions But you do of purposefully jacking off You're consciously jacking off But if it just happens

It's okay Did you ask I knew it was going to happen How did you know Someone told us about it Like when they took the girls They took the girls in one room and told them about their periods and the boys in the other room and told them about

nocturnal emissions? That was essentially it. How do you teach sex things and not know about nocturnal emissions? You need to be warning these boys and telling them it's a guilt-free way to get off. It's because Tanya doesn't think there's any merit to anything related to the male. That's not completely true.

That's not completely true. That's not completely true. So would they tell you don't jerk off? They In Ecclesiastes the scripture says to not sow your seed on unfertile soil and that it's better to sow it in the belly of a whore. One time I was at this little church camp

thing and this dude was standing up in front of everybody and he was like, don't jerk off to your friend's mothers, your friend's sisters. Oh my God. Was your youth pastor Ben Carson? Oh my God. Was everybody getting kind of uncomfortable and shifting in their chairs?

No, me and my friends were looking at each other like, we've done that. Oh my God. Oh my word. Like chuckling with each other. I feel like the only, I have a son and I will completely admit that I'm guilty

of having gendered approaches. So like I just never worried about anything with him. He saw me give birth when he was 10 or 9. And I kind of feel like that's all the sex ed he needs. I did it. He's familiar. He understands. As an older brother, I can say it's a magical experience.

Did you see your sibling? I did not. It was not like I was watching. I mean, he was watching. Get out of here. God damn it. I was not like, I was like watching. I mean, he was watching. Get out of here. God damn it. I'm just trying to like. He just came wheezing.

Picking above the table like a cat. Snaking in and rubbing against the doctor's leg. Yeah. Oh my God. Wow. But, you know, I just wonder, so, like, my son wasn't, we should call him, let's call him and ask him how he feels about this. Because I'm sure he'd appreciate that call from his mother. But, you know, he wasn't raised in the church.

Right. And he kind of went to church camp, but it was an Episcopalian church camp. They're fine. Otherwise known as gay church camp. You know, and I mean, I just, like, what, how much of that message is coming from just the society in which we live and how much of it's coming from the church? Because I don't really feel like I grew up feeling shame about sex. I have a hard time remembering. Because I definitely grew up in a youth group. I mean, I learned most of the things

I knew about sex growing up in church camp. I mean, kids were getting down at the lock-in. My friend got finger-banged on the back of the church bus. I mean, that is not going to be the title of my autobiography, but I hope it's the title of someone's. I got finger-banged on the back of the church bus. Like, I mean, that is not going to be the title of my autobiography, but I hope it's the title of someone's.

Someone. I got banged on the back, finger banged on the back. Finger banged on the church bus. The church van. Yeah. It was all them Pineville kids. Because, you know, I went to Bell County, the county school, and I went to church with a lot of the city school kids.

Everybody knows city school kids are more promiscuous at an earlier age. They were bad. See, when I was, I've told Tom this before, when I was growing up, it was like the Catholics. Like the Catholic kids were always like fucking. I heard you said that on one of the shows. Did I talk to you about this on one of the shows? Yeah. So have you ever heard this? That apparently, I didn't grow up with Catholics, but as an

adult, a friend of mine who did told me that there was a thing with Catholic girls that they would consent to anal sex, but still believe that they were virgins. Yeah, I've heard this too. That's just... Yeah. I had a friend named Billy that did it because he thought it was safer. Oh, yeah. I just can't get pregnant.

I knew a lot of girls having anal because they were just like, oh, yeah. That's crazy. We don't do the real thing. Well, getting pregnant as a teenager really is shitty. Well, it is.

God, you see what she did there? Yeah. Okay, if you had to rank, if you had to rank, I'm going to give you sex acts, and I want you to rank them from most intimate to least intimate, okay? Okay. So, are you ready? Oh, wow. Very game, okay.

And then we can talk about what you mean by intimate. Okay, so here are the sex acts. Missionary, regular penis and vagina intercourse by intimate. Okay, so here are the sex acts. Missionary, regular, penis and vagina intercourse. Okay. Okay. Do we vote now? No, no, no. You've got to hear all of them.

You can't rank them. Oh, yeah. Okay, we're ranking them like a buzzfeed list. Oh, got it, got it. One, two, three, four, five. All right, all right. Cunnilingus. Blow job.

Anal sex Handjob Got them? Handjob, male or female I think I got them Missionary, cunnilingus, blowjob Anal, what was the Handjob Either way

Boy on girl or girl on boy Or girl on girl Or any permutation. I'll kick us off. I'm going to say this is probably pretty obvious, but I'd say the hand job is the least. Really? I'd probably jerk off my mailman.

You like a very mechanical jerk. It's Thursday and a good mail day. Let's see. So that's five, right? Mm-hmm. Four. God. I think it's dicier from that point.

It really does, doesn't it? Yeah. We're gauging intimacy. I feel like, I can't help but feel like intimacy is like eye contact. I get weird about eye contact anyway. And so I feel like missionary,'t help but feel like intimacy is like eye contact. I get weird about eye contact anyway. And so I feel like missionary, there's like a lot of eye contact or something. Like guilt intimacy. Okay, let me ask you a different way.

Let's define intimacy. Sorry, I didn't mean it. Let's say that, let's define intimacy a different way or give a different parameter. So let's say that you would be the most likely to do to a stranger Someone you didn't really like very much Or the Did that make sense? So like Tom would give his mailman a handjob

Okay yeah that makes sense I'd have to be in love to put it in the butt But I But to eat him out What about that? That seems more intimate than Would you eat out your mailman or mailwoman? That seems more intimate than... Would you eat out your male man or male woman? That seems more intimate to me than missionary style intercourse.

I know, I mean, and this is right, but I know there's a lot of people who have a stigma about that. Which is why it seems more intimate. Yeah, which is, I think that's why, though. Yeah, like what we were saying. Oh, you're saying, yeah. Are you saying the higher the likelihood to transmit bodily fluids, the more is that the logic that you're implying?

I don't even think so. It's just that... You can really ignore missionary style intercourse. You can ignore it? You can mail that in. You can phone it in. Oral sex requires some commitment

and a level of skill that I feel is not necessary. That's true. And like a very delicate communication if it's not going well. Yes. Like how do you very delicately say, you are nowhere near my clitoris. It's like way over here.

Or you try to move, if you'd move yourself around, like let me scoot over here a little bit. You stay there. You stay over here. I think it's, yeah, no. It's a back and forth communication thing. Because your partner, you know, at some point should also look up and be like, eh. And maybe that's it.

You know, like, maybe that's what makes it more, maybe that's what my definition of more intimate is. Is it requires more open communication. Maybe, yeah. Because with anal, I kind of feel that way too. I feel like anal is a whole day's work or something. Like, you just have to, maybe it's because, yeah. Because with anal, I kind of feel that way too. I feel like anal is a whole day's work or something. Like you just have to,

maybe it's because, like there's like a little lot of lube involved. Right. It's just like, I just feel like. It's an event. It's an event.

It's an event. And I mean, maybe this is just me, but I feel like I have to prepare for it. I have to like know that this is happening. I have to like plan

Yeah, I don't think anybody has like spontaneous butt sex. Yeah, I have to like plan a week in advance, eat the right don't think anybody has like spontaneous butt sex. Yeah, I have to like plan a week in advance. Eat the right food. Get in the right frame of mind. Yeah, drink a lot of water.

Double down on your self-care. I gotta like get in my head's face. Huh. That's really interesting. This is TMI. This whole podcast is so much.

I know. I've been thinking about that. It's okay though. Sorry. Because it's, you know, it's true. I mean, people should be able been thinking about that. It's okay, though. Sorry. I mean, people should be able to talk about this. It's true, yes, this is the point. No shame. No fucking shame.

It's not the shame, it's the wanting to get a job in like five years. Some of us have precarious employment situations. My personal character. I can't imagine. I'm trying to run for school board.

You've not said anything that wouldn't make me want to hire you. You think I could run? There's an episode where I have a 20-minute segment about taking weed brownies. Oh, well, that was maybe a little. I thought that was a metaphor. Wasn't it, Terrence? Pretty sure I listened to that episode, and I read it as an allegory.

So I think you're fine there. That was not indicting at all. Also, this is all theater. FBI agents should be English majors. They should be English professors. Yeah, this is all theater anyway. Back to you. Yeah, hell yeah, I'd vote for you for school board. If I run on the 6-head platform? Yes, yes, yes. But, you know, kids do need more.

You know, because I really worry that this is the thing I worry about a lot. I worry, like, what are kids learning from internet porn that's completely unrealistic? All of it, almost. Well, we don't have to go into penis size anxiety, but. Yeah. When I discovered, like, single, just like girl masturbating porn that kind of because it just like i felt like it turned me on it also gave me tips it also like i don't know just like spurred my imagination in different ways so i feel like there you can find good stuff it just but do kids look for good i

mean do they think i really want to find a loving do the kids just google porn you think kids just Google porn? I think they just Google porn. They Google the word porn. Pornography. I would like a pornography, please. What is it there? I have in my head what I think it is, but there's like a top searched word on porn sites. It's like universal. What is it? I'm pretty sure it's teen.

That fucked up? I think you're right. I think the most searched term on the internet is teen. I'm pretty sure it's teen. Is that fucked up? Yeah, that really is. I think you're right. I think the most searched term on the internet is teen. I'm pretty sure. Really fucked up. Yeah, that is pretty fucked up. For no reasons. Unless more teens are using the internet than adults,

in which case it makes total sense. I don't think that's it. I don't think that's it. My hunch is that that's not the whole story. I'm trying to be glass half full here. You know, I mean, the most searched phrase should be, how do I perform cunnilingus in a way that is pleasing to my partner? That should be.

Yeah. You know? So how do you? Asking for an audience member who sent me a question. We have a question from Ralphie. I though, I think across the board,

the most important component is if you're into it. You can tell if someone doesn't want to be going down on you. Let me tell you the surest sign you're doing bad is when the hands of God cup your ears. They bring your head up.

God damn it, I've been on the business end of that more than a few times. You know exactly what I'm talking about. How many times have y'all laid the hands of God on a man's ears? Come on up here. Come on up here, baby. You gave it a shot. Now you're different. We'll talk about that over dinner.

Oh my gosh, that's funny. But it's like effort. It's like if you're really into it, you are enjoying what you're doing, then it's almost always better, even if it's not exactly what you're hoping for. I've always wanted to be asked to give the commencement address at a high school because part of my message to high school students would be people, the church, possibly your

parents are going to tell you not to have sex. They're going to tell you to wait. They'll start dragging you off. I see the cane coming out now to tell you to wait. They'll start dragging you off stage. I see the cane coming out now to get you around the neck. But I am here to tell you that you should have as much sex as you possibly can. Do it safely.

Make sure it's consensual, but just fuck as much as you can now while you're young. You have the energy for it. And you've got the energy for it. They say women peak later in life, though. I believe that's true in my own personal case. And one just logistical thing about it is that the clit never stops growing.

So the older the woman, the larger the clitoris. Yeah, that's true. That's so unfair. The clitoris never stops growing. Our balls keep growing. That's more disgusting. i think closer to the earth i think it's actually easier for women to get off the older and i think you know what pleases you yeah you i mean i and you're probably more able capable to communicate it yes i feel like what my own personal problem has been and i'm willing to bet this is true for a lot of people of any age probably is that you start out and you're having sex with somebody and you think i'm totally just booty call because it's

gonna be casual and so you don't want to have those often difficult conversations about how you like for your clitoris to be approached indirectly for the first five or ten minutes and then you know what i mean like you don't want to put that effort in because you're just fucking them for a night or two and that's it right but then you end up because you're stupid about sex and again when i say you i mean me then you end up embroiled in this long-term relationship where you've spent like maybe four weeks just you know thinking i'm not gonna say anything about this because you know i'm just here to have a couple more days talked and so then you've set this pattern and so at what point do you say you know i know that you think like that that move is like something real special you do but

in fact it's it's just it's really not working for me and i don't want you to do that yeah and this is what i do like like how do you have that conversation after you've already you know pretended like you liked that special move because you want to flatter that person. You know what I'm saying? I often joke that I'll try anything twice or three times, but eventually, I was like, it takes me a while to decide if I hate something or love something.

You know, like, I'll try something a few times. I've approached it that way before. It's like, we tried that a few times and nothing. Let me just say that maybe the prudent way to approach that is not wait four years to bring it in you don't like that four years i don't think i know women who don't masturbate and they're just like it is true well at least if they say they don't and i'm always like how do you expect someone else to pleasure

you if you can't like how do you expect to be able to tell someone what to do if you don't know what to do like if you don't know I just don't understand I just don't understand how do you think they just lie well I just so I don't know why anyone wouldn't tell me you went for you and didn't you know to me like I said ideology is a hell of a drug I just if there's something near me that's going to make me feel good it's going to be very difficult for me not to do that. Well, this may seem oversimplified, but often in life when I have to deal with very joyless people, all they do is complain.

They're just miserable all the time. I assume that they're just never getting off. God, I bet that's true. They just never have a real release. Their body doesn't have any kind of real release, and they just... It's sad. It's true. They just never have a real release. Their body doesn't have any kind of real release. And they just. It's sad. It's scary.

That's how. I worked with a lot of these women the past two years. Before I came here. And I kind of chalked it up to. They have a terrible home life. And they don't masturbate. They haven't come in years. And I just couldn't.

Maybe that just helps me not hate women. Because I to hate women like I try that hard to give women all the excuses I can and that's usually my first excuse but why would you continue to feel that way is my question like if you're having sex and you're not getting off and you know that you could just get yourself off really quick why would you not do that or if you're in the shower and you've got a rough day coming up and you know you can get yourself off no feel really good why would you not do that shame yeah here's where I jump in I bring the dark part of sex in the dark underbelly okay so so here's my question as a parent how do i take all these liberal ideas that i have these progressive liberal ideas about empowering you know people to own their own sexuality and to

go forth into the world and have these healthy relationships how do i translate that to what I tell my children. You got to introduce it to them in the form of punk rock music. Well, I think even though that article, I agree, was kind of aggravating. I think it did. That's a good point. It did talk about how just like it's just literally talk to people about having good relationships. Like not even you don't even have to talk about sex Because that's the root to a lot of it, is that... I also think, we've talked about this, that sometimes just, like, sexual chemistry, you can't make it up sometimes.

Like, sexual chemistry is just there or not. Yes, I feel that strongly. Do y'all think that's true? Yeah. I'd add this, though. I don't think you can be good at sex the way somebody's, like, good at, like, tennis. No. You know what I mean? it's about match-ups yes like jane doe might be good with dick doe but dick doe might not be good with jill doe yes yes which rhymes with oh my god please tell me google this right now please tell me somewhere out there there's a

vibrator called the jill doe if there's not i need it to happen but yeah there's all kinds of other things the jildo there's all kinds of other things that go into relationships though that we also don't talk about with our kids like for example class i mean like we can't ignore the fact that a lot of people get into relationships for purely material reasons that's true and um i mean i think a of teenagers, they probably see that with their parents. And they internalize a lot of that. And they try to sort of, like, they think the same way. Something to facilitate their upward mobility.

Yeah, or to stay alive. You know what I mean? Or not even that, but to, like, also reinforce their own class identity and all these other things. To survive. And then the dark part of that is, you know we've been reading that white trash book she devotes a whole section to this idea fucking across the tracks it's kind of like a a kink with a weird kind of ugly class element to it and that's how kind of hillbilly women in particular have been fetishized and hyper sexualized in that way if you think of ellie may from the baby hillbillies and Daisy Duke and all that kind of stuff.

I've tried to play that card myself. Shamelessly. I've rolled that coin of glory a few times. In some ways, that is still my... But she uses it when you weaponize it. I weaponize it I weaponize it But But you know

Like the sex talk And all these other things Like I don't know It can't be divorced From like the sort of Societal context around us Well we're at a minute An hour 23

Yeah let's We could wrap up Let's call this Any This has been fun. This has been so great. Any closing comments? So I want to ask

everybody, like, if you could go back and give one piece of advice to your 15-year-old self, specifically about sex, what would that

advice be? I feel like I've been speaking exclusively in stupid BuzzFeed lists. I'll kick us off in stupid BuzzFeed lists. I'll kick us off. Let's dumb this down.

I'll kick us off and I'll give you the abridged version of the story. Okay. That's kind of something that I would take back. When I was in seventh grade, I had this phone sex thing that I would do with two girls in particular. Did you say foam? Phone. Oh, phone. It's back, like, you know, on the days where you actually had a landline and all this shit.

Yeah, uh-huh. How old were you, 12? I was probably sixth or seventh grade, somewhere there about, which is weird because I was a deviant when I was that young, but I was like a Christian a few years later, So I kind of did a 180 for a while. Okay. You circled back. I circled back.

But it was so funny. How old were the girls? Same age. Yeah, same age. It was just like, so my friend put me up on this one girl that we knew was really into this. And I was like, really? Into phone sex. Yeah.

And it was the first of the summer. And he goes, well, let's jump in here with us. And I was like, really? I don't know what I would say. So I started having this nightly thing all through the summer. And what was weird is that we were in every class together, never spoke to each other. But we would call each other up and have phone sex every night.

What? We weren't even good friends at school. It was just like this weird little secret. Middle school is fucking crazy. It was so weird. That is so weird. I still want to know, what do you say when you're 12 to have phone sex? You talk about what you want to do.

Well, you give hypotheticals. You're like, well, if I was there, what would you do? You know what I mean? And then there would be some kind of corny moaning, like you'd see at a tennis match or something like that. Oh, my God. I feel like we need to make a movie about this, a coming-of-age movie. It was great.

But I took it to kind of a weird place in that I had buddies that wanted in on this racket but didn't have the chops to actually. So they would listen in on your phone calls? So we would get a three-way phone line, but they would be quiet. So you're having phone sex with some girl and she doesn't know that two of your friends are listening. Right, that's the fucked up part.

But in another, I just want to take this opportunity to apologize. I won't say her name. But also, just to, on the lighter side of that, to think about a big phone chain with, like, a bunch of 12-year-old boys just beating up something. But she's like, you'd be in separate houses when all this is happening. Yeah yeah yeah and her mom caught us one time. How?

This happened to me. She was listening on the phone and then burst in and started screaming but she didn't dime me out like she didn't say like it was. It's his fault. We kept it going but it was like you know a little bit more exciting. When she wasn't even like that. More surreptitious. Yeah yeah forbidden love. so what's

your advice to your 15 year old self uh don't be a dirt bag maybe for you your 12 year old self don't be a dirt bag uh just you know i have a good thing going without you know having an unconsensual phone sex pimping whatever you got were you making money off of this racket oh gosh this is your first gambling what would No, it wasn't my first. What would yours be? I don't think I was masturbating then, so I would have probably

been like, look around, explore yourself, fuck him. What would yours have been? As in like, don't fuck him. We're talking about

16 here? Mine would be, at 15 or 16, I would, it would probably be, it's not that big of a deal. Like don't have so much guilt? Don't put the pussy on a pedestal. Or the penis. Or whatever.

Or whatever you're into. Don't put it on a pedestal. I kind of think pussy should be on a pedestal. You know what I mean though Sex itself Yes I mean if you think it's a huge deal Then you're going to develop An unhealthy relationship to it

That's probably true I mean it is a big deal But it's not the biggest deal I guess That would be my advice To myself And Jenny made this point by saying biggest deal, I guess. That would be my advice to myself. And Jenny made this point by saying when you're not

going after sex all the time, you focus on really important things. You actually free up your ass. I don't think repression is good either. I think repression is very bad. It's working for me right now, but this is a short term. But no, I'm not. There's going to be a point diminishing returns on that

yeah like I said but if you're not obsessed with it then you're gonna focus better on whatever I mean you know maybe in a really healthy relationship you're having really good intimate sex and you're not obsessing like maybe that's the definition of a healthy relationship that you're not obsessing

yeah probably wow do you think that exists um I'm gonna get out there after that you're not obsessing yeah probably wow do you think that exists um i'm gonna i'm gonna get out there after october and i'll experiment and i'll report back okay we'll have you back on in the fall yeah we'll have you back on report back we get a report i'll have names i'll keep a log. Absolutely. Well, this has been fun. So what's your advice? Did you say?

What would my advice be? I think my advice to myself at that age would have been to be really clear, to be not to be afraid to ask for what I want. Because it took me a long time to, it took me a long time to get to the place where I could do that comfortably, where I could ask for what I want and expect to get it. I spent, you know, and like my old cooking partner, Jonathan Piercey, used to say, you know, sex is kind of like pizza.

Even bad pizza is pretty good and better than no pizza at all. And I kind of see his point, but I ate a lot of mediocre pizza, you know. It could have been good. It could have been good pizza if I just asked for the right toppings or been a little more insistent about whether I wanted the crust to be thicker than. I see eating some pizza made me sick before. Yeah. Heartburn.

That might be a good note to end on. For using pizza as a metaphor for sex. Right, right. Well, thanks for. It's been such an honor. Thanks for having me. Listen, I know you all have talked about this before. You said that you have guests that come on and they've never.

I've listened to every fucking one. Every single episode. Every single episode. I don't even think I have. I've listened to all of them. I skim on sometimes. I skip through. I've listened to all of them.

They've been so much fun. I've really enjoyed them. It's been a lot of fun. So I'm really thrilled and honored. This may be the apex of my radio career. That's so sweet. This is better than when I interviewed Linda Rosetta Casper. Gosh, that's lofty praise, knowing how much you love Linda Rosetta Casper.

Did you see that we're on a New York podcast this week? No. Really? Yeah, we interviewed last week and they dropped it this week. Katie Halper Show. I'm nervous about it. That's exciting. It's good.

Especially because they called it Black Lung White Privilege. That was the name of the episode. That was the name of the episode. I love it. That's, oh my God. That's Terrence Rowe's brainchild. I can't wait to listen to that. So how can I find it?

We posted it on the Facebook page. I can get it on the Chill Billy page. It's awesome. I haven't heard it yet. Do you think it's good? Yeah, I thought they did a good job. Oh my God. So it's there? Yeah, it's there. I'm going to go't heard it yet you think it's good yeah I thought they did a good job oh my god

so it's there yeah it's there I'm gonna go listen to it alright I gotta go alright well thanks for coming thanks for having me it's been fun

yeah Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn, damn, damn, damn Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn.

Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn.

Damn. Damn. Damn. Pick your shorts, Lincoln's clean. Lean and check your magazine. Thank you. No, the club don't close to four. Let's party till we can't no more. Watch out, it come to four. Damn. Oh, Lord. Thank you.