Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 189: Chaos Walking, The Kurt Sutter Story(w/Bryan Quinby, Felix Biederman, & Matt Christman)

Episode Date: March 10, 2021

Bryan tags in for my absentee cohosts and Matt & Felix stop by to talk TV and tease their new Stitcher Premium show: "Time For My Stories" Time For My Stories: https://www.stitcher.com/show/time-for-my-stories

Darryl and me, we starting a business together. Do you know how many businesses fail in the first year? What happened to telling me to dream big one more time? Should I be worried? I'm fine. I'm clear for duty. I won the T-Light competition, didn't I? Don't tell anyone, okay? New SWAT, next Wednesday, 10, 9 central on CBS.

Welcome everybody to, by the time you hear this, Thursday edition of the Trillbillies. I am running a bit of a skeleton crew, but never fear, I have recruited some muscle. And joining me from Columbus, Ohio is Mr. Brian Quimby, one half of Street Fight Radio, one half with me of the Holy Boys. What else do you do? Hey, Tom. I do like 18 different things. So, I mean, Holy Boys and Street Fight are good,

are two good things for this audience. And joining us also feels like long overdue i think this is like the one of the like only handful of times we've done some choppo trubilly stuff even though even though we owe a great debt to our origin story to you boys uh i remember yeah it's been a while i think um the first thing i ever did for you guys on your show, rather, was the Halloween episode. Yeah. Which was, that was the first time I've ever publicly told that story, which is like one of my favorite stupid childhood stories. I thought it was a great venue for it.

I love that. I love that. I love that. So if you haven't guessed by now, we got two halves of well, I guess two fifths of Chopo Trap House. It's five halves technically. We're very big.

Okay. We got Mr. Felix Biederman and Mr. Matt Christman. Hey. Thank you for having us hey collectively now the host of uh is it listen to my stories it's it's time for my story time for my story this is like another it's like another show like when we did choppa we didn't we were like who gives a shit about the name and now it's like this name's so fucking stupid and with this one like when we did Choppa, we didn't we were like, who gives a shit about the name? And now it's like this name so fucking stupid. And with this one, like when we were thinking, I was like, what if we had this name?

I don't know. I'm just throwing that out there. And they're like, yeah, to do that. Now we have this one, too. One day I'll have something that's the fifth of like 10 names that I've thought of. Not just the first thing. Well, I love it because I didn't know is it a midwestern thing to refer to

your TV shows as your stories I thought I don't know if it's specifically midwestern I've heard of it as like a way that you know old ladies would refer to soap operas yeah that's

yeah I thought it was Southern. People say it here, but I always think we take so many of our cues from the South here that I thought it was a Southern thing. I've heard, like my grandma used to say she watched her stories.

Yeah, I would stay with my grandma. She'd be watching The God and Light or The Young and the Restless or some shit. And she'd be like, I had to watch my stories. My stories are on, don't bother me. So I was curious. I didn't know if they had made it out of the mountains or not, but it's warmed me to the show.

And I'm happy to have you boys. This is going to be fun. Yeah, absolutely. yeah i'm happy to have you boys this is gonna be fun yeah absolutely um i tell you the truth like stories has to be a generational thing and it's like i the reason that it like sprung to mind was i was just thinking about how stupid it is to know a lot about shows yeah especially it's like a man in your like late 20s or early 30s just being like yeah my thing shows but it's like no i actually i've seen like every show so well i think it's kind of it's kind of the fever's breaking a little bit but there was a in the, I'd say, second Bush administration, first

Obama administration, when being into shows was basically the entirety of culture. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's still a little, it is still a little bit,

like, you do, like, kind of have, like, the different areas like you do like kind of have like the different uh areas of shows like you have the fx the hbo and each one's for like a different type of person and i just watch all of them so uh i i'm i'm pan in that way yeah you're pan and polly yeah you're like me i think we all have a similar theory on all this which is that like what you just said where a show is like for a specific type of person and we just talked about this on our last episode sort of media as an insight not just to the audience but to its creators and i that's why i'm interested in them like i am endlessly fascinated by like someone who is like i have to watch ray donovan like i can't miss ray donovan like it's so it's and like it's so weird for me to think about the guy who invented Ray Donovan, like someone. Ray Donovan. Yeah.

But yeah, just to, yeah. To be like, yeah. How about a cool guy from Boston who throws women in the trash? Because it's such a amazing insight into like everyone in entertainment. It's like fucked up and like narcissistic and, you know, a million things went wrong with them to put them in entertainment is like fucked up and like narcissistic and you know a million things went wrong with them to put them in entertainment uh but i think people who make it in hollywood

enough to make a show and make a show that lasts for a really long time there is just a multitude of bad things happen to happen to you mentally and like so like seeing their idea because this is more true shows than movies shows are a better insight into what these people think is cool movies are like i feel like the formula is is more down where it's like okay this is a superhero movie this is oscar babe this is blah blah blah i i would delineate like if making movies is the senate making shows is the house yes the senate is for like you know the worst people in their state the fucking clawed over everyone stepped everyone in the back to get their people in the house they couldn't have a job anywhere else that's right and figuring out what they think is

like constitutes a cool person is amazing that's the best thing about it yeah those are that's the fx that's sort of the fx model too like their shows are about dudes being cool. That's like their whole thing with, you know, the Kurt Sutter shows, the Shield, even Always Funny. Justified. Yeah, they're just like, what do dudes think is cool? And they get it right. They do. They're other channels. Like the USA Network, like who thinks the guy from Burn Notice is cool?

You know what I mean? It's like, you know, Rob's a Maserati and listens to MGMT and wears like tass burn notice is cool you know what i mean it's like you know arrives at maserati and listens to mgmt and wears like tassel loafers like you know what there are millions of people who think the burn notice guy is cool that's one of the best things about shows is that any show that's been around for even a little bit has thousands minimally of people for whom it's their favorite thing on earth yeah like literally it's probably like it's probably gotten them through the darkest moments in their life like there are people who probably like are alive today because they're gonna kill themselves but then they thought

they later they're like oh i have to find out who burned him and burn notice like it's like yeah if i don't find out who burned it yeah sam was it sam axe yeah yeah yeah no yeah that that's exactly it like for however shitty you think a show is like one that's been on for like three seasons or more there are so many people who fucking love it and think like you're like yeah the burn notice guy is the coolest person on earth and probably started dressing like him there's like there's like 20 like those those usa shows are like endlessly fascinating to me because i've never watched one but like there's like 23 seasons of psych where i'm like it is pretty incredible that like usa has this whole section of culture that's like kind of tied with uh cbs as like just no go zone not only

that but like psych yeah there was a zillion episodes of psych and crazy the funniest thing is that cbs i think it was cbs it was one of the networks had a show around the same time with the exact same premise that was also incredibly popular called The Mentalist. Yeah. The premise of both those shows is that there's a genius detective who's able to notice everything on a crime scene instantly. But instead of trying to explain to people how he figured things out, he just says he's psychic and everyone believes him

and there are two shows with that premise and they both have about 500 episodes each and the thing i like to imagine is people who love one and fucking hate the other one you know there are those people you know well like the mentalist the mentalist guy is different because he like wears cool vests and shit whereas like they're just sort of like slackers yeah they're like late millennial slackers they're just bros hanging out wearing uh wearing like button-down shirts yeah but the mentalist is cool yeah he's like he's like yeah he's got like a vest and he's got yeah he's bracelets he's cool yeah which is like what everyone thinks about a guy

who lies about being a magician yeah i'll say this the most respected guy in any community i've watched some psych i never watched the mentalist uh and honestly i i kind of do have to stay for the mentalist because it was the one that came on, the one that debuted afterwards. So it felt like a ripoff. So keep it away from me. I'll hang out with my buddies on Psych, just solving crimes in and out. I think, yeah, Psych was one of those shows. I mean, I always think about this guy I know who's like, he became such a like, it's like he was a champ and I was Jen Goodall.

became such a like it's like he was a champ and i was jane goodall uh just this guy i know from like middle america let's say like from a decently well-off family but like you know you had the wealth multiplier if you live in like like you know like missouri or something right he wasn't from missouri but like you know one of those, it's not really the Midwest, not really the South. And he was always like, he was my perfect case study into like a type of America that I'm not from. And he would always just say the most fucking, I thought they were insane things to say to somebody. But he would go, dude, have you ever seen Covert Affairs? And I'd be like, no no we're both 20 years old like what the that's like that's what you watch after your second divorce dude that's it would be like

the girls the girl on there is so hot there's and it's like this was like 2000 like everyone knew how to look up porn then right no you just like covert affairs dude there's so many people that like like are not age appropriate to the shows that they like really love like that yeah you know what i mean what what would what would y'all say is your uh burn notice slash covert affairs slash the mentalelist slash side just like the show that you all love that like nobody else likes brotherhood on showtime i'm like the biggest believer in that show to the point that like someone i know like i was talking about someone like tagged one of the writers from the show in it and he was like i didn't even like it this much i don't know i just saw something in

it that no one else did and it's yeah when i talk about it there are probably like women who lost attraction to me when i brought up brotherhood and talked about it but it was brotherhood was a cool show it was it was basically the whitey bulger story but in rhode island so and like very low stakes like the politics brother is trying to become like the majority leader of the rhode island state house also and the other brother are they irish they're irish yeah they're not even in the island. It's Rhode Island. That's all day goes. What are you doing? You have the wrong state. Yeah.

And they're like- That's 90% Italians. Well, the Irish mob, that's the best thing. His brother's like, I'm going to become the head of the Irish mob. And the Irish mob in Providence is like literally three people. Yeah. It's like some travelers who do like driveway resealing scams. That's it. They would make more money if they got like

a real real estate broker's license if they just like sold houses i mean that is a problem with tv writers is they don't understand the amount of money that's in crime yeah like they they've always had such a problem with i you know we said this on the episode we did about the at the end of Sons of Anarchy with Will. But it's like those guys were all making twenty thousand dollars a year, probably. Max. Yeah. Like all of them died. All of them died for that. Yeah. Yeah. I think my show, I just watched it and I really want a million people to watch it and i assume everybody's watched it but gamora on uh hbo max is this italian uh um mob show that it's like there's a movie about it that was made in 2008 it's just about like low-level mobsters

and and i just got through season four and I probably watched it in two weeks. Like I just burned through this fucking show five episodes a night, every night. And it was fucking incredible. And then it sent me to watching more Italian prestige TV. That sounds pretty good. Actually. It was great.

Yeah. It's all nude. Everyone is nude in Italian prestige television. Like I wish the USA Network was. I mean, honestly, what the hell? There is a ton of nudity in Gamora, but it's the Sopranos, but Italian. You know, instead of eating like a gabagool, they eat like they always order fried fish plates wherever they go that's got a frito yeah that's like yeah like i uh that's something we talked about a lot in our sopranos episode is

like the comparison of the american mafia with like the sicilian mafia or the napoleon mafia the camorra specifically and it's it is amazing because like yeah the guys in kimura like that's they're just cartels they make like 50 billion dollars a year and in the sopranos it's like only like two guys are making like a good living yeah with the kimuras also at least in in the show that i watch is like they're always at war, like 100% of the time. Like so much of the Sopranos is them being like, we can't go to another war. You know what I mean?

Like they're always trying to avoid going to war, wherein like this show Gamora, it basically starts with a war, and it's just a war all the way through. When is Gamora set? Now. Now. In Italy, in Naples Italy uh uh it's very good it just I I keep trying to get people to what the other thing that I watched

recently is Warrior that I want everybody to watch because I just like want them to make more of it that and Wayne were two things that like recently I watched that was like they have to make more but they're definitely not going to make more, but they're definitely not going to make more because nobody's watching them. I think it already got canceled. I think Warrior got canceled. On the same tip as that, the

recent show that I really love and got canceled that nobody watched was Lodge 49. Oh, God. You are the world's biggest L 49 boost i bet if there's anybody who's a bigger one i'll talk to them i mean there has to be because it's the kind of show that absolutely rewards obsessive attention so i know that there are people who are way more into it than i could be because i just can't i can't put that much of myself into any television show, but I do like it a very great deal, and I really

am just, I just want them to get one more season. I don't even want it to go forever, just because it's like the second season is great, it ends perfectly, but it also leaves a bunch of loose ends that could easily be wrapped up with

one more season. Fucking Jeff Bezos, that bald lizard scumbag, brought back The Expanse, some fucking sci-fi bullshit. Yes, I know, people say it's really good. Whatever, I don't think that's stuff. Because he's the fucking dork and he wants to watch that shit

and he won't bring back Lodge 49 for one more goddamn year. Just one more, give me one more season. Jim Hottie's in it. What the fuck is wrong with you people? For the uninitiated, what's Lodge 49 about? It's about a

guy who's basically at loose ends or a guy and a girl, like twin siblings, twin adult siblings whose parents are dead and who are drowning in debt in Long Beach, California,

and basically have no idea what to do with themselves. And the guy ends up stumbling into a sort of Mason-style fraternal lodge. And he starts going there there and he just gets into hijinks and adventures with the people who, who are members of the, of the lodge. And it really does. The fact that the show got no, it was an AMC show on those shows usually get,

you know, because that, that network was one of the, it's not like a Netflix show. You get two seasons. Then whether you're good or not you're out yeah the algorithm said that's as many episodes as we need you're done for like amc is a channel that you know mad men breaking bad like they've got a pedigree for for serious

you know shows that have quality of death and legitimately just because like, well, who's, who's, who's the mob boss? Where's the crime? Where's the anti-heroics? Nope. Nevermind. We're not talking about it. And it really, the fact that it got nowhere and they got decanted after two seasons really says that the idea of what constitutes quality in television is shockingly narrow. And it really does conform to a lot of just uh uh very uh indulgent tropes that people are expecting like you want you want it to be violent and you want it to have uh criminals and shit well and if it doesn't have that uh it's got it it's like if it's for guys it has that or it's got to have some like strong uh like female focus and like a soap opera thing and if it doesn't have any of that it doesn't matter how good it is

nobody knows what to do with it yeah yeah that show is incredible matt i mean like the the constant like uh uh carousel of debt that the main character's in is one of the most like in a tv show was one of the most the things i've identified most with ever watching anything that the guy is just always like at zero dollars has to go get a loan at the pawn shop spends all the money and then has to go back and get another loan and i just i've lived that life and that show is so incredible. He's got to be the only protagonist of a television show that has to take a payday loan out. Yeah. I love that.

I love Ben. Ben and Hawk to the check-cashing joints, and then climbing my way up to the 33rd degree in Scottish Freemasonry. I don't know. I don't know if that's what happens. It's also not, it's also like Matt said, it's so not dark. Yeah, that's the thing. There's no darkness. It's not, it's not honesty. It's like, it's people, it's about struggling people who are being ground down by, you know,

by, by the economy and the inability to, for people to find any kind of security in, in like the marketized post 2008 America, but they are still at every point, like their relationships to each other sort of sustain them. And, and that people, I guess they don't want to, I guess people don't want to see that because they don't have that in their lives. And they just kind of, they,

they want to see something that reaffirms sort of the hopelessness and everything, I guess, because otherwise it just feels like it's too taunting to imagine. Oh yeah. Look at you guys with your fucking friends that you like and that you are there for each other. Get out of here with that. For me, I think I've tried to talk to a lot of people about this show and absolutely nobody's seen it.

But, you know the the brian cranston miniseries your honor on showtime apparently that's a big hit yeah i i thought it was pretty good it was kind of like a a semi-bad show that you can't quit watching but like brian cranston's in it michael stuhlbarg's in rules. Uh, so very, uh, I reckon it's, it's weird because like the main antagonist in it is like a Scottish gangster from new Orleans, which feels a little kind of like the, uh, Rhode Island Irish mob thing is like, not exactly my first association with new Orleans organized crime, but, uh,

it's good. So. Oh, scottish guys and stuff they like english gangsters that that's an exciting thing for people because they see them as like bare knuckle fighters and shit and a lot of that stuff yeah yeah yeah well yeah say say no more about our boy sutter that has a real fascination with the Gaelic tradition in a lot of ways. He's like... I was reading the Wikipedia page for Bastard Executioner because it's been so long since I've seen it. It's just so fucking funny that

this man is really into the whole Dropkick Murphys, Always Drink Guinness, and Boondock Saints. It's the only movie I ever watched type aesthetic. He's obsessed with the British Isles in a way that's insane.

Like usually people are just into one, but he loves, he loves Wales. He loves Scotland. He loves Ireland. Like he's into the, he's into the whole thing. He thinks I like to him, those are all interchangeable like a welsh guy is like a type of scottish guy which is like an irish guy but it's his fascination with it is very notable because that was sort of like a lot of characters on sons of anarchy their only characteristic was that they were from one of those countries yeah chibs yeah whole character was that he was there yeah and that is someone like stole his wife and daughter yeah yeah so i love sons of

anarchy so much but it's like you got this guy it's like just uh you know a motorcycle gang heir who marries a surgeon and they live like you said in the show because they live this like shitty little like ranch house somewhere in like you know rural california somewhere and then there's this whole arc where they go to ireland and they like have their back stripped over and the ireland ireland is like when that show went from like you know like stupid in the way that banshee is yeah we're not as self-aware as banshee but like you know that type of show like warrior or something uh to like becoming like one of the dumbest fucking shows i've ever seen in my life but they were like

they would never they were never not gonna do that like i always say that season two with henry rollins as the nazi was like there's like a pinnacle. There's a demarcation after that, where at first it's prestige TV, or like, you think you're watching prestige TV and then the Ireland season happens. And you're like, what, this is stupid. This is like, Oh yes, this is an FX show. I remember I watched that second season and I will admit at that point in my life I was fully blue-pilled on television I wanted my TV to be good I'll admit it I wanted I didn't want to watch a show unless it had you know like vitamins and minerals I had not yet fully realized oh this whole thing is just like a status anxiety festival and that like half the shit people are talking about in these shows is not

even really there they're just making it up to justify watching it instead of reading books but uh i remember watching that second season after kind of being like a little bit askance at the first like this looks a little trashy they keep having giant shootouts in the middle of the town taylor taylor Sheridan just gets murked in season one. He just gets run over by a car. I watched the second season and I was like, okay, oh wow, holy crap.

The whole season, I'm getting into it, loving it. Then the final episode happens. At the edge of my seat, I'm really into Sons of Anarchy. Then the fucking guy steals the kid. And then they're going to go kill Adam Arkin. And then they go, oh, your baby's been kidnapped.

And then they go driving away. And I just go, what? And I just had this instant, like, disenchantment with the show. And then I tried to watch the Ireland season. And it was just, I couldn't get it back. I couldn't get back with the show. And then I tried to watch the Ireland season and it was just, I couldn't get it back. I couldn't get back in the group. And honestly, I feel bad about that because if you accept television for what it is, then Sons of Anarchy is awesome. It's a delight throughout. And I feel like I kind of missed out because I was too on my own ass about what I was doing with my time. I actually went back and what so what happened with me

was the Ireland season I quit and then it showed up on Netflix and I was like oh I got to catch up on this show and I caught up but the one that I really I think I lasted a very long time with this show but I had to get out Was The Walking Dead Like I have such a tolerance For bad shit

And bad TV But I got to a point in The Walking Dead When Negan showed up That I was like I can't do this anymore I'm just done I can't watch this show anymore It's not good But there are people that really do swear by that and fear the walking dead those are kind of like like uh uh they're they've taken the place of the sons of anarchies and the shields i think is i just i just watched

uh talking dead with chris hardwick i didn't watch any of the other shows just the uh yeah just the post game that's what i was there has to have been people that did that who just like love chris hardwick like that is fucked up to think about yeah like like walking dead the actual episodes is like tldr so they just go get their hardwick fix yeah there was a like three year period where Chris Hardwick was the biggest celebrity in America that was really crazy yeah he was the guy who talked about the shows yeah

that makes sense because like if our religion became shows Chris Hardwick was like the high he was like the Ayatollah yeah shows now you guys have planned a hard way yeah like yeah we reached I think around Ayatollah. Yeah. Now you guys have planned it hard. Yeah. Cause like,

yeah, we reached, I think around breaking, but when, like when breaking bad, uh, and walking dead were on at the same time, I think that was the peak of,

that was like 2010, 2011. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like first term about that was the pinnacle of tv in my that was peak tv and that was when you had so much invest so much emotional investment in the shows that you had a need for there to be shows about the shows and so there was both there was a post

walking dead show with chris harvick and then there was also for the last season, a post Breaking Bad show. That's right. There was. Yeah. Talking bad. He's also doing Talking Saul. I didn't know this, but he's still out there and he's doing Talking Saul on since season two of Better Call Saul, which also a good show. I enjoyed that one too. Man, I love Bob Odenkirk. That's one of those shows that I don't know why I left it, but I did like after the first season. I also stopped watching it after the second season, I think. I don't know. Is it on four now?

I think so, yeah. I think I stopped after the third. I have not caught up on the fourth. And what happened is that for me, it just got too much Breaking Bad in it to the point where there's no more suspense because it's like, don't you want to know how Uncle Tio got his stroke? No. No.

Don't you want to know about the rise of Gus? No, not really. I would like to see a show operate on its own dramatic logic and with its own characters. And Better Call Saul just got too trapped by its association. It became

too MCU-ified as part of this like broader thing instead of being its own deal. To this day, I still think that they fucked up with the way they went with Better Call Saul. I remember when they were first talking, because I was a huge Breaking Bad head. And of course, I was a huge Bob Odenkirk fan,

Mr. Showhead from the jump. Was delighted to see him on the show, loved him on the show. And so when they start talking about doing a spinoff that would be a prequel, I was like, hell yeah. And I remember reading an interview where they said that one of the ideas they had was it would have been like a case of the week show. Where every week Saul has a case where he has to try to avoid actually going to court like just to plead it out or get get the guy off without having to go to a trial because you know he doesn't know what he's doing and uh and I thought that was a great idea and you really see how how structured and how constrained the genre is by when they finally came

out with the show, it's really is aesthetically and in its beats and in its tone, it is just breaking bad again. Are there any, like, do you think, I mean, it's not a one-to-one,

but do you think Mayans kind of suffers in that same way yeah i i yeah and i i really enjoyed mayans but it's like yeah i don't know i like those are two shows that i enjoyed the start of but like haven't really gone back to and i think in both cases it's a thing where yeah you get fatigue of the universe and you get fatigue of like basically knowing what these characters are in their world is also when they when they fired kurt sutter from mayans i was like there's no way i'm watching the show now whoa whoa whoa whoa this is news to me they fired him halfway through last season and i was like i won't watch another episode of this show now he was too real yeah well that that is the thing the reason to keep watching mayans was

it's like what absolutely insane thing is he going to do with this and it's like well now nothing like now, like, because the Kurt Sutter's choices, probably the, I think to the biggest, most notable one was to write a character in who is just him and make him lose an eye and like get a, bite his tongue out, spit it on the gas, such an amazing choice that nobody else in the

world would do and it's like i really wanted to see what he had in store that's what's been going on with the i'm watching the shield for the first time am i like i've never seen it so i'm i just started a couple weeks ago i'm on season two and kurt sutter's character is a badass albanian and like at the end of an ep he's a gangster and at the end of one of the episodes they're like oh man he jumped out of a truck boy uh out of a paddy wagon going 40 miles an hour and he survived and now we don't know where he's at and everybody like looks really scared and i'm like he wrote that that's so cool that he made himself a bad you know the foot fetish joke the little foot fetish thing like you know that's all sutter yeah yeah it's amazing to get he plays an armenian mafia member and it's like kurt sutter is like the

most like ruddy western european looking guy in the fucking world and but it's like do you think that was his penance he was like oh i made my guy too cool in the shield i know well otto is so the thing about it is otto is very important to sons of anarchy he's like the linchpin of a lot of storylines they always have to go visit him in prison and then he's like and he keeps it realer than any of them like he yeah like he's dying before he's snitching yeah so he's actually cool he likes the torture stuff i think because he likes edgy shit you know but i also think that he sees otto as the coolest character in sons of anarchy yeah He's the realist G. He's the actual G. I don't

know what the opinion of Kurt Sutter's acting is among everybody here, but he's gotten work outside of his own productions. There's this movie that just came out, Chaos Walking, which was a-

Which coincidentally is also his autobiography, Tom. Yes. So this movie is, it's a $100 million film that was based on a young adult novel about a dystopian world where all the women have disappeared and all the remaining men can hear each other's thoughts. And it has Daisy Ridley and Tom what the fuck's his name? Tom Holland and Mads Mikkelsen. That's amazing

that Kurt Sutter would agree to be with B-listers like that. They were allowed to act in a movie. Motherfucking Kurt Sutter is agree to be beat with B-listers like that. Yes. They were allowed to act in a movie. Motherfucking Kurt Sutter is in it. And it was shot like three years ago and they put it in the can and

tried to reshoot it a million times. And now they just released it under COVID so that they could write off the entire budget. What's Kurt Sutter's character? Is he just like, he just like has a uterus and everyone has to fuck him and he gets as he needs to.

Like also loses an eye. He plays the adoptive father of the main character, Todd Holland, named Cillian Boyd. Cillian Boyd, of course. Yeah, he picked that. Yeah, they said, what's your name going Boyd, of course. He picked that. Yeah. They said, what's your name going to be, Kurt?

No, I don't know. Something like Cillian Boyd. He was thinking of that for years. He was like, I need to play a character named Cillian Boyd. Did he do anything cool in it? I don't know. I have not seen the film. I do kind of want to see just the Sutter clips,

just to see him the Sutter clips, just to see him flexing his acting muscles. But just the idea that he's going on auditions or getting offered acting roles off of the strength of being Otto is amazing to me. And he didn't really... Every Otto scene is the same. It's actually easier for him because Otto loses more and more parts of his body, giving him fewer

that he has to act with. But it'll just be like, you know, are you going to rat on the club? Fuck you. And then like cut his ear off or something. Do you remember the moment when you thought Otto was going to dime the club out?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was intense. Yeah, he would never do that. But he made up for it by killing that innocent woman. He redeemed himself. That's that whole show. That whole show really is just guys killing innocent people. Like most of the time.

The whole last season of S of anarchy is first of all every episode's 95 minutes long and most of it is meetings but it is really jack's walking around killing just indiscriminately 50 people yeah like unintentionally just like people in his orbit though too just yeah on accident yeah has any Have any of you seen Southpaw? Because he wrote that movie, and I never actually watched it. I was going to ask you about that. Is that the Jake Gyllenhaal box? Yes.

It is, yes. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eminem supposed to have the lead in that? I believe so. And then they went with Gyllenhaal? That sounds about right. Yeah. Eminem was 100% Sutter's first choice. And then the studio was like,

no, we're not. Kurt Sutter probably thinks he paved the way for Eminem. That is probably what he thinks about himself. That it's like he opened the culture up enough for Eminem to thrive.

I mean, he's so great.em to thrive. That's right. Yeah. I mean, he's so great. He really is awesome. I just, I wish it's like him and the, the people that made Banshee and warriors should be allowed to make

unlimited shows. I absolutely believe that. You know, what's so great about Kurt Sutter. I have no fucking clue what his politics are like every other, like fucking dumb ass showrunner. It's all, it's just like all the same,

like pro Biden shit, like same like Hollywood liberalism. But I know all this stuff about Kurt Sutter and seek him out so much. And I like really actually don't know like what he is. Cause I just know all this other shit about him. Yeah. All I know is an animal rights activist and vegan which is surprising to me yeah so he's probably one of us maybe i i don't know i think he's

probably got the same politics as mickey rourke i don't know why but yeah like when mickey rourke said uh donald trump is a punk and a bitch i feel like that's the kind of thing that turd sutter would say 100 like that trump is just like trump's a pussy yeah that's like not not that he's like a fascist orange maniac or that he's a putin puppet but that he's a fucking pussy yes yeah no that that's like that seems yeah i think you hit the nail on the head he's like one of those like you know real guys real men uh listen to women as their friend it's like well said uh yeah no i think that's exactly it um but that's what he'll do and then he'll say something like real gross about like katie seagal in the same sentence

about his like feminism he's like yeah like yeah we should all be allies and uh and yeah i busted open uh taggy bundy every fucking night he definitely wants the world to know or at least think that you know him and his wife are still fucking that's 100 for him that's another that's another underrated part of Sons of Anarchy is that at the end of every episode, they have like Katie Segal sing House of the Rising Sun. He is a OG wife

guy of the first part. He's really into his wife. Loves her so fucking much. He fucking loves her. Yeah, it's always... was the house of uh the sons of anarchy house band called like the forest rangers or something like that like burt combs and the forest rangers some shit like that i don't know but it's always it's like big big fudge cake mountain the pipe dwellers or something but But it's always like them featuring Katie Segal.

And it's like singing like a Neil Young song or some shit. Yeah. Yeah. A really slow version of the House of the Rising Sun while like somebody shoots up heroin and somebody else is like driving on their motorcycle contemplating like their homosexuality or something. It's like Theo Ross. he's what's his name juice juice yeah juice contemplating his latent homosexuality on the way to betray the club yeah yeah there's that like i that's the other thing i love about sutter is that like most, most people have broad themes, right, that you can identify very, very broadly. Like, I got obsessed, some would say a mania, some courts have said that, obsessed with Ken Olin, the creator of This Is Us, and I got really involved in his body of work and it's like oh his thing's about like family and like gradually aging

and like trying to replicate the good traits of your parents and like you know negate the bad ones and shit like that but like you know chuck lorry the american family sitcom blah blah blah kurt sutter's is like betrayal that's the biggest that's his favorite number one issue that's his like the all of his stories are really about betrayal all of those they're about like not giving they're they're about like not betraying people when it's the absolute hardest it's kind of like they're they're like like if a hot girl walks up to you And you don't cheat on your wife That's like a really big thing

For Kurt Sutter That's like how he would judge you as a good person Yeah I think it is I was a big fan of this is sus Felix and my family watches This is us And I have walked in on it A few times and i gotta say it's pretty

incredible that you watched it i gotta tell you that's what our our final episode that we're going to release is this is us and i've gone deeper into my ken olin research because i do like it's what started this all and it is one of the most evil things i've ever seen in my life like just completely fucking i don't care how many people the sons of anarchy kill or how many women ray donovan throws in a dumpster after they overdose this is us is the most satanic thing i've ever seen on American TV I can't wait I'm so excited for having you watch this thing You're really going to be upset

Oh yeah That show, when I walk in and I see it First of all It looks like there's never joy In that I guess when I walk in, everybody's crying Every single time on that show And they don't watch it around me Because I'm like the classic dad That comes in and complains I guess when I walk in, everybody's crying every single time on that show. And, and like,

they don't watch it around me because I'm like the classic dad that comes in and complains, you know, like, Oh, you know, this is a lady stuff. Every,

every like, yeah, because it is designed like in the way that like fast food is made in a lab to be addictive to you. This is us is supposed to be like emotionally addictive and taxing and like every character like a typical this is us episode is like a character's dad is like um i've just said i love you to the first time for to you for the first time in you know 48 years but i also have cancer and i'm also gonna like freak out and

fucking punch you if you try to take me to the cancer hospital your friend works at that's the best cancer hospital in the world and then we're gonna both shave our heads because i'm getting chemo but it turns out it was a false diagnosis actually what's but i i have a heart attack and then when i'm dying i have a dream about when I met your mom and you have the same dream. And our mom who like died tragically in a thing that I never talk about, uh, it says, forgive yourself.

And then I die and then I'm back to life. And then you get into a car accident. That's like, that's like every episode. It's like the most manipulative fucking thing i've ever seen i do have the same sickness as you guys too because like i watched every episode of wandavision which was like why did i like when it ended i was like this really sucks and i that really sucked and then it was like but like was it ever not gonna suck like

was there ever a world where it wasn't going to suck shit? You know? And like, I line up for the next thing, the Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I'm going to watch that fucking thing. I feel like I have to. I feel like it's a duty. Well, yeah, no, that is something that we hit on a lot is that the amount of shows and saturation and just like how it just presented to you.

And we have this in lieu of like any real cultural event. And so it's just like, you have this work of watching all this fucking bullshit and you don't like any of it. No. And our, and our big, big our we have several big theses in in our series uh for our stitcher series but i think one of our one that i hadn't contemplated before was that the buy-in like the support for this era of media is actually very hollow that like if you like

there are diehards for a lot of shows but i think for like most of the audience of this is us if they took it away there would be like feda who are still like fighting forever probably for it but i would say over at least 51 of the audience probably more just wouldn't notice it would be like when you take like a puzzle away from a monkey who's lived in captivity his entire life we cancel a radio show or like fire a local news anchor it's kind of the same thing because i just i can't believe like it's most people it's just either the thing you're supposed to do or the like just the fucking the thing that's right in front of you after your body gives out after you've been working like 15 hours a fucking day because this is all of this is so offensive to

like any human sense of what's entertaining or like good in any way yeah absolutely it's like uh i don't know do y'all have like shows that like you have like a go-to like i'm feeling depressed i'm just gonna watch this show for the 17,000 fucking time or anything like that when i'm in a like when i'm in a bad mood i mean i've watched sopranos so many times that it just like i can have whatever level of engagement i want with it right yeah but i mean if i'm watching something where i'm like feel bad and want to feel worse uh there are a few episodes of sopranos that that I'll watch. Deadwood. Deadwood's a good one, yeah. But if I'm not trying to feel worse,

I'll actually just watch fucking 30 Rock. Yeah, I like to watch sitcoms that I enjoy, like 30 Rock or It's Always Sunny. Those are great ones. On the sitcom note, I have one request that at some

point during the duration of the show i want you all to do wings i could oh man i watched so much wings dude i i might have seen every episode of wings i don't really remember it like the way i watched it like i remember every episode of the simpsons because obviously every episode of the simpsons i saw as a kid i saw 50 times on syndication all right but i probably saw every episode of wings i remember plot points and scenes and jokes from wings to this day wings i think wings was underrated in the whole like i mean i tweeted something out about it being right up there with seinfeld which is a little bit hyperbolic but i think it was pretty underrated as far as the 90s sitcoms go especially for a show that ran for like eight years but was never really considered like a

hit show you know what i mean it was on forever and uh yeah just the premise of, like, it's like Cheers, but in an airport. Yeah, it exists in the same universe, right, as Cheers and Frasier, too. Yes, I think so, yeah. They had crossovers, yeah. Yeah. I had no idea, because I just read about the big Saturday event between the Golden Girls, Empty Nest, and some show called Sisters or Nurses? Oh, Nurses. Oh, Nurses.

I remember Nurses. Yeah. All those shows took place in the same retirement community in Florida. I got really into reading about this night where they did a hurricane storyline that fed through all of those shows. And it sort of reminded me how much time i spent watching empty nest while i was growing up oh yeah richard mulligan baby i always got like like mama's family and empty nest kind of mixed up the same way you would like uh gary bucey and nick nolte yeah something like that i actually still remember to this day a line from Empty Nest I saw probably

when I was like seven or eight that just like stuck in my head and it's not even a joke it's just like a bit of wisdom that kind of like that broke open my brain and kind of

I've been stalked by ever since it's Richard Mulligan who is is, I played a doctor, who's talking to his nurse, played by Marsha Warfield from Night Court, another show I watched every episode. I love Night Court. I love Night Court. And I don't remember even the context of the scene, but it's something about a medical treatment that some that's like

somebody who's terminally ill could get that could like help them a little bit and she says sure but it's just postponing the inevitable and he says isn't that what we're isn't that all that we're doing postponing the inevitable and then just as a kid, I was just like, God damn, that's real. Shit. I'm going to die someday. Fuck. Thanks, empty nest. This is like the origins of my health anxiety, dude.

It's like being sick and watching House MD, and then you just imagine your organs in animated shutdown, and it causes you to get worse. Shows are very bad if you have certain neuroses, you got, I could never, I could never get into house. No, no, I don't like medical shows. I tried. That's what I'm saying. I hate medical shows.

I just started the Nick a couple of weeks ago and I was like, Oh, I'm finding that I'm, I'm thinking about my insides too much. I don't know if I can watch this. I don't even, I'm not even like a hypochondriac i just like with house i was like someone should go to the hospital and shoot this guy i don't care how okay yeah but he gets results okay that's the thing i don't care how good of a doctor he is he's like it should be it should be about john wick killing the rudest doctor in the world but it was like that just annoyed it was like such a fucking annoying show to me where it would be

like he's so good at being a doctor but he's such an asshole because he's such a good person and it's like this sucks it definitely sucks. I mean, obviously it's always overplayed to talk about the cultural influence of these shows. You make that up to justify your emotional involvement in them.

I do think that House probably had a bad impact on a lot of doctors by telling them, yeah, you can be a complete prick as long as you're fucking good at your job you know but yeah but and i am a hypochondriac and that showed i've watched a good amount of it and it never uh it never freaked me out because all the shit that they had was always so insane that i was like okay i don't have this it's like weird tick-borne encephalitis yeah yeah I don't yeah it's like oh this person uh he caught a uh a prehistoric uh like form of syphilis from

interacting with dinosaur bones at a museum okay I don't have to worry about that yeah I'm good yeah I mean I like the format of like you know thing of the week or whatever but just like yeah the character sucks so much i would argue that character had a worse influence on people than grand theft auto so many like just like middle intelligence people saw that character and was like oh i'm gonna be like that yeah that's just the rest of their life yeah yeah i mean i think that's why always sunny is so good because like those those guys are are dipshits and like nobody's kind of trying to be them and something like house is like it'll influence the way somebody treats you for the rest of your life.

It's like, no, I'm a fucking charming guy. I'm just, I'm an asshole all the time, but I'm a charming guy. Yeah. Yeah. No. What do you, what do you think? Like, cause you just said Felix that you liked the thing of the week show. And like, I feel like I have been conditioned over the last several years that

like i can't watch another episode if i don't feel like it's tied into the last episode like i i am like i think i've been propagandized to believe that everything has to be totally serialized and has to be like a a season-long arc story i mean i do like that like some of my favorite shows are definitely like yeah season arcs and everything and more connected overall series arcs but like i i don't know like i guess it's for different types of shows but like thing of the week is my favorite thing to watch where you just don't think about it you're just not thinking that much like it's you're so consumed by whatever the thing is why the thing is this way why it's perplexing how it can be solved that like it's

just a completely mind-occupying space whereas with like a series arc like you know deadwood or sopranos uh you know two of my favorites but not like my two absolute favorites are you know you're sort of actively involved and deciphering the deciphering the entire arc as you go but i guess it boils down to like what level of involvement do I want to have with this And for now for me it's like not that much For sure I do want to tell you though Because you brought this up earlier in the show Felix

I am still listening to Howard Stern Like every episode over the year right And last week He He had Ronnie his limo driver come on and talk about the top five hottest women on television shows and every single one of them was from like a cbs show called fbi that's the other thing we're talking about shows and what we've mostly not talked about because of our demographic is the fact that the shows that people actually watch are all police procedurals on network television.

There's like six NCIS shows about Navy crime. There are multiple shows specifically about Navy crime. Jag. And then there's just a show called fbi and these shows are watched by millions of people way more than any of these boutique streaming shows or or cable ones are yeah and we we did law and order because it's sort of like the i mean the cop shows obviously existed before but in this modern form i feel like it all comes from law and order and it is like it is a like how popular those are are insane and yeah i don't think people begun to grasp it like you you know our favorite guy shamar moore right

shamar's in like 12 of those yeah exactly like that's why that's why like when he posts those videos like all those like yeah 50 year old women are like you're the sexiest man in the world like i love you it's because yeah it's like that's the biggest audience really are like people who like yeah no they just want to watch a procedural about the FBI. There is a there's a goth lady on NCIS who most people who are listening to this probably couldn't wouldn't even notice if they walk past them or just think they were headed to a hot topic or something. like governor would win in every state in this country because everybody's mom and dad know her and love her from being on NCIS for fucking 10 years now. The two people that are guaranteed to win elections in America, it's not veterans. I would actually, I'm doing some math on this. And I think actually being in the air force makes you less likely to win an election than if you killed like you directly like were convicted of murder you know um yeah it's viewed as soft yeah it just no one no one's

electing democrats love finding someone who's like i flew some piece of shit plane that broke over a country where no one has electricity uh i may have dropped i actually don't know if i killed anyone or not i'm running to replace this senator that's been here for 50 years lose by like 30 points they just love that but the two if you actually want to win one like any college or pro sports coach or athlete could would win that's what we have instead of war heroes and then yeah someone from a network police show yeah somebody from fbi most wanted yeah or like fred thompson tried a little too early like now no yeah that was too early yeah yeah that was too early. Yeah, yeah. If he were still alive, yeah, he would have gotten through the primary.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's like, that has replaced everything in America. Yeah, it's incredible. When you look at the list of series on CBS, and you just, you don't even know any. Seal Team, SWAT, Salvation. You just know that LL Cool J and Shamar Moore are going to be in 60%. Yeah.

Yeah. I think for certain. Shamar Moore, like he's, I found out about shows because of just like him. I found out about all of it through Shamar Moore. I didn't know him or any of these things before him oh uh uh salvation is a show about an asteroid that will impact earth in just six months um and it highlights the attempts to prevent it and its worldwide ramifications this is a cbs show i believe okay so i've got some questions about the longevity of

this because like they this is not netflix they try to make these things franchises so i how how are they going to divvy this up at some point the asteroid has to either hit in her hit earth or be destroyed or diverted at that point what do you do if you're still like a popular show does it it's the next season it's like uh yeah another asteroid's coming that's true that's true you would have to do uh salvation mars or like salvation just like on a different planet what about like oh it's a volcano this time it's gonna erupt the super volcano is gonna erupt i got that too like due to my showbiz genetics i instantly awakened an anxiety and how long you can have that show but i realized like they're just gonna do something right where they blow up the asteroid

but then they like they have to prevent all the smaller pieces of the asteroid from coming to earth yeah oh that's how you franchise it it's like oh we're in charge of like the meteorite that's coming to hit la so it's like yeah salvation la oh we're we're the ones in miami yeah they they do love to move they do love to have a like a city specific episode i mean chicago has like a whole universe they have have like a Chicago extended universe. Oh yeah. There's Chicago fire, uh, Chicago police, Chicago mad. Yeah.

Chicago garbage. That'd be pretty good. There should be, it's so fucked up there. Like they should do like, yeah. Chicago alderman. Just like getting bags of money in a burger king parking lot yeah how to like figuring out how to launch like this guy's been the same like head of a one-man law firm in like some shitty irish neighborhood for like 40 years

and he has to explain like $17 million. It's like, I found it. Guys have done that in Chicago. That's the funniest shit. They've found guys with like, yeah. Tens,

if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. And they'll be like, I found it somewhere. Yeah. Fucking awesome. And you know, blue bloods has been on for 11 seasons, is un-un-fucking-believable to me because i've never even seen a second of it i i wouldn't know where to find it but uh it's such a popular show i know mark walberg's in it or not mark walberg donnie walberg's in it

i started to say Mark's not doing TV yet. Was that Twilight Zone reboot with Jordan Peele any good? That's a CBS show. I heard it was bad. Yeah, I heard it was too. It's on all access. I'm not

paying to stream the runoff from one of the networks. It's just not happening. I'm paying for it, Matt. I have CBS All Access because I have a teenage daughter and somehow they're all into Criminal Minds. Like she watched every episode of Criminal Minds. So I had to pay for All Access so she could get a hold of it.

She's the only person under 60 who watches that show. No, not true. Not true. this is shocking every time i post about chamar more tons of my reply like they're like oh that's oh look at what grumfeld from you know criminal minds apparently up to yeah it was a tiktok trend a bunch of people on of people on TikTok and influencers and YouTubers really like Criminal Minds. And it's like a huge thing with teenagers now, which I, like I said, I couldn't believe it. I actually kind of get that because, you know, true crime obviously has become this huge genre for young women. And Criminal Minds is basically a true crime show yeah traumatized and it's i i

remember when it first came out that it was notable for how particularly kind of gruesome and lurid the crimes were in it compared to other procedurals like that so that's just if you're addicted to true crime that's going to be the closest thing you can get in a scripted series yeah no that it makes sense um and i think it's sort of like a generational divide because like true crime i feel like is for like now women who are like in their late 20s or early 30s that subset of millennials but i don't know i think of i think about to when i was a kid and like there were like just tons of like it wasn't gender exclusive like people who were just really into fucking saw yeah that was their thing was that they loved saw and i think there's just like a sociopathy

that lessens with age probably but it's at its height when you're like 15 do you know that there was a i don't know how many they had or how many people're like 15 do you know that there was a i don't know how many they had or how many people went on it but you know that there's a saw cruise oh yeah there's a cruise you could go on uh for fans of the soft franchise and it was essentially a floating fan convention and it had different people from the series that you could meet and get their picture taken with and uh different uh panels about like if jigsaw could defeat the joker or whatever that sounds awesome will you all please go to one of those it's sort of like a special thing it's some kind of con i i would i don't know if i'd go on the soccer is because it's like

the moment you brought that up i just instantly felt so fucking bad for the actors it's like fuck like you're talking to your mom and it's like yeah no i was in a movie that made you know 30 billion dollars because it's like now i'm trapped at sea with a bunch of people in slipknot uh hoodies trying to talk to me about like how cool it was when my head got crushed in a vice like if they were in any other movie it's like oh my god like rolls your oyster you're fucking set but because it's like fucking saw it's like no a few years after the movie i have to like be stranded i have to go into eternity at the bermuda triangle with like some fucking dumb ass from like white bear lake minnesota

do you think jigsaw could outsmart batman like just fucking that sucks man i feel, because I've known every fucking dumbass that was just obsessed with Saw. And it was just all, like, they were all my friends who, like, said the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life. It's the one commonality. But, yeah, no, I think that just really gruesome shit

is popular with, kids yeah yeah covid took away that new saw movie with chris rock that was coming out i was kind of thinking i was gonna see that yeah there was there's a saw prequel that has chris rock in it i believe that was supposed to come out. It's amazing. He had his chance to be an actor when he was huge. But everyone realized, oh, he sucked. You're not good at this. You're not Eddie Murphy. You're not good at acting. You don't have charisma on camera the way he does.

And then he went away for a while. Like, OK, fair enough. Bye. And now he's back acting again i i i saw him in fargo season four getting back to tv and he was absolutely terrible yes that was not very good i i did not like i didn't make it all the way through the season and it was like the worst indictment the only other show I can think of where this happened with me was the man in the high castle was I watched every single episode except for the last one. And I was like, you know what? I don't need to see it.

I did that with the game of Thrones. I only watched the final episode for the episode that we did, but it's like, yeah, no, that the last season sucked so much. I was just like, I don't care. the last season sucked so much was i was just like i don't care there's really there is really something it really says something when you watch 11 episodes of a 12 episode season and then just decide like nah i don't i don't fucking really need this i i yeah and i watched that show from the beginning like i my life changed so much so many things like happened i i i like you know just in the entire run of the series like just an incredible amount of life passed and i always watched it and for the vast majority i always looked forward to

it like no matter what else was going on my life like good or bad and then yeah i get to the very end and i'm like who gives a shit like you have to fuck up so bad think about how much dog shit i watch and i was like i i could literally do anything else yeah that's that's what i was thinking about the man in the high castle was like i watched all the episodes of the first season I got to the last episode And I was like I would rather watch

One of the bad movies That I just sit I'd rather watch Transmorphers Than this That might be a good way to put a To kind of put a bow on it here like let's dismantle the sacred cows real quick like what's like the show that you think everybody or that's or maybe it's not even that everybody loves but it's widely considered a masterpiece that you think is dog

shit and the wire it's the wire did not age well the wire fucking sucks it's like it's actually quite a bad show and during it like the further i get away from it the more i'm like because during our episode i was like this is a it is a better than average show but it still fucking sucks it's like everything that people think is cool about it is terrible everything i remember liking it a lot when i saw it but me too it does not hold up i was incredible i went back to it and it was funny like those sort of like early odds hbo shows or like the only prestige shows that had product placement too. And then like Sopranos had a little bit of that, but like,

do you remember the Verizon product placement and like wire season three, I think it was or something like that. Jesus. I, I, I love the wire. Like the wire might be one of my favorite things, but I haven't watched it since 2004 so like uh and you know i was kind of delirious i i like watched that whole series right when my kid was born and i couldn't do anything else and i just thought it was like this really incredible thing but now i kind of want i'm curious to watch it again and see if it actually is not good it

won't be no like that's the thing anyone who disagrees with me like i caught a lot of flack for saying it recently but anyone who disagrees with me it's like no you haven't watched it in five years like try you just feel good yeah yeah and the more it wasn't even the politics of it that made me fucking hate it like i don't it wasn't even the politics of it that made me fucking hate it like i don't really require like any particular like politics to anything i watch but it like made it shittier because the narrative wasn't even good like it's just the writing is like actually very hackneyed and it's not just because like david chase is annoying or Or not David Chase. It's David Simon. But yeah.

But it's... That is the thing that has aged the absolute worst. I've gone back and watched everything else. And it's like... Nothing's really changed. I actually maybe don't like Brotherhood quite as much. But still think it's very good. But The Wire? No, I have a lot of trouble with.

Yeah, I thought Treme, the short-lived Treme, was way better than The Wire, just in terms of what was out there of it versus that. And then, I don't know, they just canceled it. David Simon's like, he's just going like write cringe for the rest of his life which is like honestly good i want to do that yeah he's just gonna be post he's just gonna be talking about twat waffles online for forever yeah that shit's fucking

i actually love that i love like i do there is a type of like you know fucking stupid like based liberal that i miss that doesn't exist you know who's one of those guys that fucking dumbass who uh was like i was the chief prosecutor at guantanamo bay we have to kill everyone from january 6th hold on you were the what were you that guy was uh that guy was like an early like late bush early obama era like epic liberal guy who's like you know john boehner couldn't do a push-up in the fucking military fuck him up like peter like i always think about like peter fonda like a day before he died was like what if somebody abducted baron that's like i love that that type of guy is so fucking funny

to me brian i always think about those guys you posted like it's like seven years ago the horned up libs i fear may be lost forever now but no it's out it might that account got re the accounts back i just can't get into it so i'll have to find these are some horned up libs because it is disgusting um i'm gonna be probably retweeting it every day for like a month But for people that don't know Can you describe what it is? It's just It was on a liberal Facebook page

And it was people Two guys talking about Sarah Palin And just using some really Like gross Like saying I'd like to Show her my polls Or something really like gross, like saying like, Oh, I'd like to, you know, uh, show her my polls or something.

I'm going to fuck the crazy out of her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of them said she's due for a good grilling. My yeah. I'm I fucking miss guys like that. They're like that is sort of biden's base i guess

but they just like don't have the presence on twitter as they did on facebook yeah yeah they got away um i would say that the show that people seem to like that uh i didn't love was the americans like that was the one where I was That was the one where I kind of decided Like not all prestige TV is good yeah Because I just like kind of fell Off I was able to like kind

Of fall off on a show that like did Have like a big Arc and and people really loved It and and tried to convince You that they were the you know it's the best show on tv that you're not watching and it's like uh i tried i really tried i tried to get into it too i couldn't yeah me too i watched like the first i don't even know if i watched the whole first season i just they're just gonna keep looking at each other no thank you yeah i like

i thought it was like cool and like i enjoyed that of it that i did watch but it was just like yeah it just didn't hook me yeah and and and i would i will say this and and like i i sent will this actually but there is a show on hbo max called years and years oh i watched that oh man i was like that is the best that would be the best choppo like episode because it is an insane that show is wild yeah it's this like british family it's it's it's an attempt to do like a sweeping social history uh by by going going years into the future with this middle class British family

and their ups and downs of how they're reflecting 19th century social, like a fucking Dreiser novel or something or like Zola, but it's just absolutely idiotic. It's lip brain. It's so lip brain. like Zola, but it's just absolutely idiotic.

And it's actually with one of the, it's so lib-brained. Like there's an evil, Emma Thompson plays like an evil sort of like proto-fascist leader who takes this third party movement that like takes over British politics and they start locking up migrants in cages but then the the brave family like records them doing it and then she goes to jail and then it ends with like a terminally ill uh like crusading conscience of the family who has cancer getting her brain uploaded into the cloud so that she can live forever as in on the internet there's a scene there's there is a

scene in the first episode where uh this family's kid is is like they're like i think she's having troubles you know i i i think i think she's trans we should talk to her and she's like they're like honey are you trans and she's like yeah so then they start saying like we'll love you no matter if you're our or our son or our daughter or them uh we'll love you no matter what she's like actually i'm transhuman yeah she wants to get computers surgically implanted into her body. Yeah. And that's what we're coming out as trans. Oh, man.

It's powerful. It's fucking such a bad. It's so bad. It is addictive. It's only six episodes, and I watched them in two days. And through the whole thing was just sitting there going like, wow, this really sucks. What caused you guys to watch this? I'm always a sucker. For me, it was because the premise of like, ooh, it's the future.

I always want to know what idiots think the future is going to be like. Not like the sci-fi future, but like the near future. Because that's the thing. It starts like in the near future and then it goes like 30 years into the future. Yeah. It's like when you look at the description on HBO, it's really, it's just like a British family goes through ups and downs. And it also features President Trump nuking a Chinese island. Yes.

Yes. President Trump, like, after he's won re-election, and I think they assumed he was going to stay the president, you know, or be president even further into the future, because they said at one point that like, he's not president anymore, but he's still in charge. Like they say about Putin.

And so it is, it's, it's great. When I looked it up, the reason I watch this, cause when I looked it up, it was like, it was like everybody described it as like this brilliant,

like social commentary and a cautionary tale for what our future could look like. And then when Trump nukes that Island at the end of the first episode, it's just like, this is fucking shit. But you, you would, you would absolutely any, anyone that's listening to this show would absolutely have a fucking hell of a time watching it. It is very funny. Yeah, it's wild. It's a wild program. I recommend it. Tom, do you have, like...

Besides the Americans is there like any other show that you think is like far shittier than it's critical I can't prove this okay and I could this could be a big whiff on my part

I'm going to revisit it but I think it's there's at least a non zero chance of Breaking Bad sucks oh nope I'm going to revisit it. But I think there's at least a non-zero chance that Breaking Bad sucks. Oh, nope. Am I off? You think I'm way off? I don't think it's...

I recently rewatched it, and I don't think it sucks. I think it definitely gets worse as time goes on. That's what I'm saying. It sucks. It's a little harsh. I absolutely do agree with that. I think that as the show got more popular, it got

overly aware of its audience. And it started sort of pandering. It sort of did the opposite of what The Sopranos did when it got popular. Or I mean, obviously The Sopranos started very popular. But as David Chase became aware of the culture around the show, he sort of consciously made the show and the characters more unappealing to to confront the audience with like what what they think they like about it. Whereas Breaking Bad sort of did the opposite thing where they just said, hey, you guys like these cool guys being cool. Well, what if they were even cooler yeah yeah no yeah that's yeah i mean and that's like that's another reason why you know we believe tv is uniquely limited as an art form is the amount of audience participation absolutely it would be hard if you were a writer not to kind of be like that's like that the time element of the the temporal element of television is the thing as said that's what limits it because you need to if it's it's if the shape of the story is not

determined by any creative force it's great it's it's audience response and like the market and if that's the case like if you are undermining like the the creative uh raison d'etre for the show to even exist and replacing it over time with just pandering and and uh and prophecy and that's the thing the one group of people that's always gonna have the worst suggestions for anything in entertainment are the audience yeah they universally have the worst ideas idiots yes out of any input you got yeah yeah always the audience is the shittiest ideas it's just always based on what you've already what what has already been done yeah the series you know what I mean?

Like with Breaking Bad, it's like, hey, these guys are doing something totally different. And then they were like, what if, you know, the fans started having these theories and they formed the show around these theories and still kind of surprised you at times. That's why I liked it. But like you're absolutely right that like the show could have been something totally different if they weren't responding to the heat online, especially down

there for that last season. And the last episode specifically. Yeah, yeah. You could really see where they just lost their nerve. And Vince Gilligan basically admitted that. He admitted that the expectations, the audience commitment was too much, and the fear of getting everyone to be mad at him was too much. You don't want literally everyone to say that you're an asshole

for fucking up their expectations of what they think that you are owing them. Didn't Breaking Bad almost get cancelled after its first season? I wouldn't be surprised. It wasn't that. It took a few seasons for it to blow up. I remember

it was just all of a sudden the biggest shit on TV. It was wailing to its run by the time it really took off. It was just all of a sudden the biggest shit on TV. But it was wailing to its run by the time it really took off. It was very early when Netflix switched to basically just streaming. It was very early, one of the shows on there. And then that's what got people into it. Being able to binge those first three seasons is what ended up getting people into it. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, when it was on Netflix. But yeah, one of the things about that show is like that episode before the last is uh is pretty brutal and like could have been the last episode of the season you know and yeah but they couldn't do it you couldn't do it you couldn't pull the trigger yeah i mean i would be scared too that that's what's interesting about better call saul too is they're rolling into the last season and it's like is he going to have the guts not to put Bryan Cranston in it wait a minute

so there's going to be five seasons right? yeah I believe so so he is not Saul for the majority of the show no

that's fucking stupid! It's called Better Call Saul! It was frustrating to me, too. I did want him to be a little less Jimmy McGill and a little more, you know, Saul. But that's the thing. It's like, it has to

have an arc. He has to become Saul has to have an arc he has to become Saul why why does he have to become Saul why can't he just be a guy who's fun to watch on television why can't he be a cool character that we like also he's already the guy he's already the guy it's like you just have to keep pulling and pushing him up and down but he's the same guy It's like you just have to keep pulling and pushing him up and down, but he's the same guy. It's all fake character development. Yeah, it's the same story as Breaking Bad, too. It's like a guy that's decent that keeps getting more bad.

Yeah, that's the same fucking character arc. It's like how in Solo, the character arc of Han Solo is, he goes from being a carefree cynic who doesn't want to sign up for any causes to fighting for the rebellion. That's what happens in fucking Star Wars. That's very true. Well, I think before we start picking apart the finer points of the man of glory, perhaps we should call it there.

Thank you guys so much for doing this. This is fucking awesome. I'd like any chance I can just to kind of, you know, chill in the cut and talk about Kurt Sutter. Absolutely. Pleasure is ours. It was a good time. about Kurt Sutter. So. Absolutely. So much. Pleasure is always a good time. Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Very fun. I had a good time here. Yeah, absolutely. Hell yeah. Well, check these guys out.

Their new endeavor time for my stories. I'm going to go dig into the gun smoke episode tomorrow. Y'all started with the two biggest shows in Eastern Kentucky history. So. Gun smoke actually fucking rock. That wasall started with the two biggest shows in Eastern Kentucky history. Gunsmoke actually fucking rocked. That was one of my favorite shows we did that I'd never seen before. Can I ask what y'all got? Have y'all got anything teed up that you care to share, or would you rather just let it?

Oh, yeah. No, we do have... We're releasing a free episode this week. We're releasing Gossip Girl. Probably sometime tomorrow or the day after. Gossip Girl is a guilty pleasure. That show rocked. Everyone will hear my theory about Gossip Girl.

I'll be on pins and needles. Anyway, thanks fellas. Let's do it again sometime y'all out there listen if you like what you heard go to patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com slash trillbilly workers party for five dollars

a month where did we get that idea boys I think we took it from Mark Ames and John Dolan, to be honest. I like that you spelled it Patreon for him. That is nice of you.

Go and give as God would direct you to and just know that you'll be blessed for it. I'm Tom Sexton and thanks y'all. Our pleasure.