Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 200: Appalachian Birthright

Episode Date: May 27, 2021

In this one we cover a very peculiar case of eastern Kentucky justice. Support the striking Juiceland workers in Texas: https://www.gofundme.com/f/juiceland-workers-rights?utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link_all&utm_source=customer Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

oh man i was having fun a fun game that i've got like a new song is um mississippi woman louisiana man uh switching out you can switch them out like uh uh i'm like uh afghanistani woman pakistani man we're gonna blow up america try it you can find anything um hold on a second what's what's a what's a major river that goes through there did that area yeah the mesopotamian mesopotamian uh the uh the euphrates river can't keep us apart. There's too much love in this Iraqi heart. Too much love in this Irani heart. Alaskan woman. Indiana woman.

Indiana woman. North Kentucky man. We're going to pretend like we're southern. We're going to pretend like we're southern. We're going to pretend like we're southern. Ten years ago didn't say he. Y'all, now it's all we can. I don't know. Know how to call.

Do, do, do. Know how to call. Wait a second. Wait, what's the big, damn, what's the big river in India? That would have been the perfect one. The Tigris. The Tigris. No, not India. That's...

Euphrates. Tigris means we're both in Iraq. The Ganges. The Ganges. Yeah, that's right. That's right. No, wait. The Ganges is China, right?

No, I think it's... Maybe it's both. The Ganges is the Yellow River in China, right? No, the Yellow River's in China. Right, I thought the Ganges... I'm fucking stupid. I used to know all this stuff. Bisexual woman, bisexual man, we're gonna go and squeeze some cans.

Let's see. Do one about swinging couples that are at bars that, like, prey on, like, a hot single person there. Okay. hot single person there. Okay. Swinger woman, swinger man, we're gonna fuck as many 22 year olds

as we can. I don't know. We're gonna buy you as many drinks as we can. We're gonna buy you as many drinks as we can. Let's see. Age,

well, no, that wouldn't be age of consent laws won't keep us apart but that'd be a funny one for pedo yeah like libertarian woman uh let's see um well that would be a good one for like i mean it's such a cliche but uh 17 year old woman, hardcore band man. We get together every time we can. Something, something, something. Age of consent laws won't keep us apart. There's too much love in this straight-edge heart.

F the man. Man. I'm kidding. I love most of your straight answers. Oh, man. Oh, wow. So, all right. Welcome to the show.

I got a story for you. I have an interesting story for you. Actually, the story I just read in the Mountain Eagle is the perfect setup for this other story in the Mountain Eagle from 16 years ago. So this is in this week's Mountain Eagle. West Virginia's population drop is largest in the U.S. And it goes on to talk about you know, all the people leaving West Virginia. And it also talks about the

Access West Virginia. Isn't that what it's called? Is that the thing we talked about? The guy that's clearly gay. Yeah, clearly vampiric. Who's paying people to move to West Virginia. This article talks about how... I'm reading some of these.

When Rebecca Recco left Bell, West Virginia in 2017, she was making $42,000 as an art teacher. She now earns $68,000 teaching middle school art in Oakland. Moving was about more than just better pay. She described an anti-union, anti-teacher sentiment, including new laws passed by the legislature, creating charter schools and withholding teacher pay during labor strikes. West Virginia reminds me of a drunk cousin, Recco said.

It's like this cousin that you have that you can't get itself together. I love West Virginia. I love it. That's where my roots are from, but I couldn't with that state anymore. Okay, that's whatever. But there was another thing. Affordability and retirement were two reasons why Susan Mazur-Stahman jumped at the chance to move to West Virginia from Washington, D.C. in 2018. The 54-year-old cultural anthropologist and her husband

bought a 110-year-old house in Hinton for $47,000. West Virginia people are very independent-minded. You don't get that conformity you see in other places. I think that's really important, she said. There is sort of a live-and-let-live attitude. You can create your own future and your own reality here in some ways that you cannot in places that are more restricted and more conformist. Where is Hinton? I'm going to guess it's probably not in the middle of Mingo County.

For some reason, I was thinking Hinton. No, that's Milton where Hoops is building his dream place. Hinton. Hinton, West Virginia. Cultural anthropologist woman. Doesn't say what her husband does. I'm kind of stuck there. Summers County.

Yeah. I don't know where that's at. I mean, it's kind of close. It's kind of close to Bluefield. I don't know. But it's where Lassie was shot i don't know but it's where lassie was shot anyways not not like not with a gun but with the show it says it says it on here that's where they put lassie down yep after after a labor dispute okay so this is funny it's it's a funny it expresses a funny dynamic right people are

leaving people are trying to move here uh because it's low living standards low cost of living cheap houses relatively um i found this story you know how i've been looking through microfilm it's how i blow off steam these days ago the go to the library. You told me that. Unironically, I asked you, man, what are you doing to take care of yourself? You go, well, I spend a lot of time on microfilm at the library. I've been worried about you as the follow-up. Well, you can be more worried about me

after reading this. This is a story I found from the June or July 20th, 2005 edition of The Mountain Eagle. 2005? 2005. Okay. Two men sentenced in beating a veteran.

Two Letcher County men. I was astounded at this. This is an incredible story. Two Letcher County men will serve long terms in prison for robbing and beating a Vietnam veteran. Who came to Letcher County looking for a better place to live. and beating a Vietnam veteran who came to Letcher County looking for a better place to live. Letcher Circuit Judge Sam Wright, who I think is still in office, right? Sam Wright is on the Kentucky Supreme Court.

He's on the Kentucky Supreme Court now. All right. Well, he sentenced one of these guys, Cooley Brown of Hayman, to 50 years in prison, and James Lee Fields of Big Cowan to 25 years in prison for the Lee Fields of Big Cow into 25 years in prison for the assault and robbery of Colin Rogers. Hold on a second. I got a question.

They killed the guy? They did not. Dude, I... This can only be described as draconian. I was reading through this like, did they not, they killed the fucking guy? Like 50 fucking years?

Dude, check this out. The terms... Wait a second. Is this the origins of the thin blue line, kind of? The culture, the conditions forming for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say... Well, this one has a very specific sort of sociopolitical location

and cultural location. You'll see why in just a second. The terms imposed by Wright were the same sentences a Letcher Circuit Court jury recommended after finding Brown and Fields guilty on June 15th. Okay. This is a Letcher Circuit Court jury.

These are all people from Letcher County. This would have been like what me and you have been dipping out of for the last 10 years, claiming we have bone spurs. Sir, you're not getting enlisted. Dude, this was not a fair trial at all, not even slightly. And I'm honestly, like I want to find these two men and champion their cause, because I think this is very unfair and I'll get to why. I mean to find these two men and champion their cause.

Because I think this is very unfair, and I'll get to why. I mean, you shouldn't be beating up old men. Old men, no. I'm not saying these guys are like fucking the guys that held their fist up at the Olympics. You know what I mean? But just saying. But I'm saying they don't deserve a 50-year prison term. Each man must serve 85% of his sentence before he can be considered for release

on parole dude so these people are so during 37 years um rogers so the man who got attacked did not attend the two sentencing hearings last week let your let your commonwealth's attorney edison banks said rogers had become so distraught over the way he was questioned by a defense attorney in last month's trial that he left Letcher County and moved to Louisiana. Louisiana. I'm sorry. Keep going. We're going to beat up an old man. Letcher County man.

Former Letcher County and current Louisiana man. We beat up Vietnam veterans as fast as we can. Scrap that. That was so dumb. I've not had any contact with him since he testified, Banks said of Rogers. Banks said Rogers testified during the trial. Dude, I swear to God, brace yourself. I'm strapped in.

He came to Letcher County after watching the movie Fire Down Below. Whoa, no. No. The movie, made here in Perry County in 1997, starred Steven Seagal as an environmental protection agent who uncovered the dumping. Jack Taggart, baby. Banks said Rogers was living in Alaska

when he saw a fire down below and decided to move here because he liked the way the film portrayed the people of Eastern Kentucky. Can you imagine? Okay, I'll say. Okay. We're going to switch from

getting these guys their profiles and courage to beat this guy up. But can you imagine being that guy? Who knows what kind of mental state he was in, you know, being in the war and everything. But can you imagine being in Alaska and saying, wow, I want to spend my golden years in Letcher County. And then the first day, the day you get out,

just two street toughs just beat the hell out of you. Dude, I can't stop laughing because I was reading this after having just read that story in the Mountain Eagle about people moving to West Virginia. It's just like, oh, West Virginia's so nice. It's like, well, let's move to this place. But it's like Eastern Kentucky's like, get ready to pack an ass. That's like a Chappelle show skit or something. We gave you Melissa.

We rolled out the welcoming party for him. It was probably, I'd say, Sam was probably like, okay, we're going to give these guys like two and a half, three years or something. And then like David Nairmore thinks that it, I'd say Sam was probably like, okay, we're going to give these guys two and a half, three years or something. And then David Nairmore thinks that Leicester County tourism took such a hit through this assault that he's like, no, we have to make an example out of this.

Seriously. Yeah, they've been trying to get people to move here for fucking forever and immediately. And that's what the next quote is. Okay, hold on a second. Before we play fast and loose with this, this guy lived and he was fine, right?

He lived and he was fine. Yeah, it's like he survived the Viet Cong. I mean, come on. It's like two dipshits from Hayman are going to be fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. He decided to move here because he liked the way the film portrayed the people of eastern Kentucky.

And this is how he got treated, Banks said of the beating rendered by brown and fields bank said rogers made the decision to leave letcher county after i gotta switch over to this next after he was cross-examined by defense attorney james craft oh the mayor uh the mayor jr yeah mayor jr james craft the second um bank said rogers took issue with questions craft asked about his drinking now i don't see how this is relevant objection i want to know did he ask him if he napalmed any four-year-olds in Cambodia? What if you took that? Mr. was the guy's name Rogers?

Yeah. Mr. Rogers. Did you pacify any villages? Were you seeing extreme prejudice, sir? Sir? We were just... One of these guys, just like their closing statements before they were sentenced, were just like, we did this in solidarity with the brave Viet Cong fighters of Vietnam.

The brave people of Vietnam. Oh, my God. Rogers testified that he began drinking heavily after his wife and daughter were killed by a drunk driver shortly after he returned from fighting in Vietnam. God damn it. Wow. Oh.

Banks. I would retract every yuck yuck I've been having at this guy's expense. Banks said Rogers may be in New Orleans. He said he would like to contact Rogers to tell him he might qualify for compensation under Kentucky's crime victims compensation law. He's like, I've never set foot back in that place.

I don't care how much money you give me. How about $12,000, sir, as part of a package deal? Did these guys spit on him when he came home? The jury took one hour to find Brown and Fields guilty of the assault and robbery, which occurred November 16, 2003. During the two-day trial, jurors heard from Rogers that after accepting a ride, an individual previously unknown to him who identified himself to Rogers as Brown drove him from near the Irvine traffic light at Whitesburg to Big Cowan, where he picked up a second individual known to Rogers as James Lee. James Lee fields... That's Winston's real name, James Lee. Then drove Rogers and Cooley Brown

to Virginia where Rogers purchased beer. According to Rogers, after putting $8 worth of gas into Brown's automobile and purchasing the beer and a pack of cigarettes, he had approximately $15 left in his wallet. You want to come up off the rest of that, Mr. Rock?

We're not in your neighborhood anymore. Dude, I just, I mean, yeah, like, 50 years? Like, come on. Come on. Grant, I mean. Listen, again, I don't condone beating up old men, particularly old men probably suffering from PTSD. But, God.

50 and what was the other one, 35? 25. 25. Come on. Those are just arbitrary numbers. I'm going to give you 50. I'm going to give you half that. Right, right.

It's like, shut. Come on. That's how they mete out justice in this fucking place. I mean it's uh 15 sounds about right for that I read the first paragraph I saw 50 years and 25 years and I was like okay they killed the guy that's what I thought I was like this guy this guy's just down in New Orleans fucking just like slamming back fucking hurricanes and zombies and shit um they they i mean honestly it's uh they've meted out i mean they gave this sentence entirely because it was a little embarrassing let's be let's face it it was just a little embarrassing guy moves here watch the fine cinematic feature featuring steven fantastic film by the way mean, we've talked about it on the show,

but if you've not watched Fire Down Below, you should go watch Fire Down Below. Probably one of the few people to watch that movie and say, I've got to live there. Yeah. I've got to be at least one of, like, three. I have to live in the place where they put the snake and the guys. Like, he had to know he was going to get into a little mischief down there.

I mean, surely. Yeah. Like, yeah, they don't exactly portray eastern Kentucky as, like, a totally just a total utopia of, you know. No, but you know what? I could see somebody being enraptured when Seagal flies that plane dangerously close over the falls. You know what I mean?

That is pretty tight. I'll hand it to him that's pretty tight i'm still waiting to find the like the militant uh epa agent that's like dude it is this is yeah the one yeah yeah the one it's like a martial artist and you know like has a badge and yeah honestly that's partially why that film rocks It's like a martial artist and has a badge. Yeah. Honestly, that's partially why that film rocks. It's like it's everything you've always wanted to see. APA kicking ass. I gotta ask you a question. Does ACAB include Jack Taggart?

No. No. Because he was going after... Polluters. Polluters. Polluters. It's like, the only cops that are good are the anti-polluter cops. Yeah. But it has to be a crime against Earth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a total injustice. I am very pleased with the message sent by the jury to those who would commit such violent crimes as these defendants did to a truly helpless and blameless victim with no known family in our county, said Banks. I'm also sure they thought Colin Rogers would not dare testify against them

given their savage attack upon them. Here's how I feel about that. So I listen to this podcast called Throwing Fits and one question they ask all their hosts is like if you could either you know if you had to either hit a random button in your phone and that murder is just a random person in your phone could be some limp dick that you knew briefly somewhere could be a family member or like quit doing whatever it is you enjoy doing with your life

which one would you do and like sometimes people pick the the button the button you know what i mean and i it's it's a little like that it's a little like you know what if mr rogers will had like nefarious aims for coming here like can we really trust a man who saw a Steven Seagal movie and said, I want to spend my golden years there? What if, like, what? All I'm saying is, did we look into this Roger? Nobody knows this Roger Scott. Did we look into him a little bit? That's what I'm saying.

The verdict assumes that this is a morally upright person, that his actions were virtuous. By deciding to move here, he made a good, virtuous decision, and he was punished for it. Therefore, the people who did it, punished him for it, deserved the... And they did. They punished him for his choice.

What if these guys really just were like Jean-Claude Van Damme fans, just hated Steve? Like, he's just sitting there telling the stories like, Steven Seagal's a fucking... He's a fraud, man. He's a fucking pussy. And they just stomped this old guy out.

Yeah. JCVD, bitch. Yeah. Or what if these guys, like, you know how Seagal is like, isn't Seagal like doing some Roman Polanski shit right now? Like, where he's like, kind of like, living in Belgium to escape like, Yeah. Some sort of sex crime here at home or something?

Yeah, I think so. What if they knew about that? And we're allies. Yeah. And then just because you like, I'm going to stomp you out, old man. They definitely stomped him out. They pulled over to the side of the road, said, we're going to kill you if we don't get your money.

$15? $15. Is this Marvin Gaye Sr.? What's going on here? Who also I just found out is from Lexington. Do you know that? Really? Yeah.

Marvin Gaye Sr. Yeah, Marvin Gaye Jr. lived in Lexington from ages 5 to 11. Yeah. Wow. Now, there's somebody who was definitely not virtuous in any way, but who made some of the best music of the 20th century. So you got to. Also, man, mind of mine reminds you his dad was part of arguably a religious cult

and murdered him. So my hunch is that his upbringing was not, you know. Yeah. It's sort of like the James Brown thing. James Brown, a monster. Also made some of the best music ever made. Yeah. But this Rogers guy, we don't know anything.

We don't know anything about this Rogers guy. So testimony revealed that his Line Fork resident, Larry Kelly, drove home on Kentucky 588. He saw Rogers on his knees in the middle of the highway with his hands clasped behind his head and Brown standing over him. Rather than driving on, as at least one other passer by had done,

that guy was like, no, I hate Steven Seagal. Dude, fuck you. Yeah. Honk if you're a Van Damme head. Everybody just like rolling by. And they're like, honk it, because yeah, we're pro Van Damme head. Everybody just like rolling by. And they're like, honk it, because, yeah, we're pro Van Damme.

And they're just stomping this guy out. Like he's coal miners and everybody's just cheering on the beating of this old man. JCVD in the Viet Cong, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like this guy's like getting up asking for help,

and a truck driver pulls over and says, what the hell's going on here? And the guy's like Getting up Asking for help And a truck driver Pulls over and says What the hell's going on here? And the guy's like Reaching up Asking for help And then he just Pulls a shirt

That reveals Chairman Mao A Hanoi Jane tattoo Yeah, no No help to be had here Old man Kelly then demanded The assailants

Tell him what was going on Despite being told Nothing was wrong With Rogers Except for him being drunk Kelly ordered the the assailants tell him what was going on, despite being told nothing was wrong with Rogers except for him being drunk. Kelly ordered the two assailants to... I like how that was the... He just bleeds when he's drunk. It's a natural medical condition. Kelly ordered the two assailants to allow the severely beaten and bloody Rogers to walk over to get into his vehicle. Kelly then drove Rogers to the ER of the Whitesburg Hospital, where he remained with him until former Ledger County Sheriff's Deputy Shane Amberghi arrived in response to the reported robbery.

Like, okay, this isn't hard. Okay, let me... I guess I should probably, okay. Yeah, no, I mean, like, this isn't really a difficult conundrum here. It's like, yes, it's fucked up that they beat this guy. Especially, uh, you know, he was, uh, harmless, unarmed, defenseless, liked good film. As far as we know. As far as we know.

It's fucked up, though, that they beat him up, but they don't deserve 50 years. Nobody deserves 50 years. They would have fucking, like, fucking murdered this guy in front of the courthouse. I don't think they deserve 50 years. I'm sorry. That's exactly right. I don't think they deserve 50 years of sorry. That's exactly right.

They didn't get a fair trial, and that's fucked up. That's really fucked up. You imagine losing 50 years of your life because you got on a good one and beat up... I mean, it's not good. Again, it's not good. But, like... I don't know.

Well, let me reverse this, though. They would have did the same thing to, like, a homeless person or something, though, I'd probably feel differently about it, honestly. Not in terms of, like, I'd still think the punishment's draconian. I know what you're saying. But, like, there's part of me that's like, man, just have a hard time feeling sorry for a retiree. Kind of probably a well-to well do retiree with enough disposable income to just move on a whim

that just got his ass whooped. Yeah. I know what you mean. We want to attach some sort of moral, morality or virtue to victims, but like the state is not any kind of way to mete out justice. also when it's just you're just clearly just numerically speaking it's clear you're just throwing out arbitrary sentences

totally 50 years that sounds about right 50 fucking years these guys are probably in their 20s or 30s and they're gonna and like they're out in their 70s these do these guys have just been disappeared into the system yeah i'm sorry man fuck samurai i guarantee you these guys are somewhere in the prison system by this point just who the fuck knows where now they've just been disappeared into it and they're just pleading with everybody i i don't deserve b they're gonna go up for parole in 40 years or whatever. And now the climate's worse. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Imagine how it looks to have, like, beat up a veteran when you were, like, in your 20s. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Well, I found a speaker piece about it from 2005. Okay. This is how good I am, baby. Did somebody say, I mean, they should have gave them more. 50 years, they got off easy.

That literally pretty much is. It says, this comment is concerning the person who was beaten so badly that he left Letcher County for Louisiana. It is a shame that two people could do this to a person who came to Letcher County believing that the people here were like those he saw in the movie Fire Down Below. I just can't get over that that's the fucking... Did this guy stand in court and say this, that he came here because

of the movie Fire Down Below? I don't know. Where did this part of the story come from? I have no idea. That's so fucking good, though. If there is a good side to this man being nearly beaten to death for 15 it is that justice has prevailed i hope the antics of these two criminals doesn't detract others from coming to ledger county and to the attorney who apparently spoke

to the victim in a disrespectful manner this man fought in vietnam which is more than i can say for the two thugs i guess he had a flashback to Vietnam when he was being beaten. He nearly got killed, not in Southeast Asia, but in Southeast Kentucky. Shame on everyone who treated this man badly, including Mr. Craft. What goes around comes around. Okay, James Craft, I don't really know much about him other than he's an attorney in town, but he was just doing his job as a defense attorney. I mean, he was just trying to get, I mean, I don't think I would have taken his route necessarily. What was his route?

What was Jimmy's route? Asking about his drinking habits. I probably approached that a little bit differently, but yeah, you're just trying to get these guys off or at least, you know, as little punishment as possible. Right, right. I don't know. Anyways, I thought you'd see that one.

I was wondering if maybe it was the talk of town in 2005. That is just an abhorrent example of no justice coming out of that. No, none. None at all. None at all. None at all. Is Roger still alive? You think it was that 2005 where he's probably been

what? Probably in his 60s then. He might still be alive. He might still be alive. I mean. Probably in his 80s or something.

He's probably in the 70s or 80s. Yeah. Unless he got his ass beat again for popping off. What is another? What if he what if he what if he what if he uh

what listen what if like he watched next of kin and then moved to chicago and it's a mob guy some chicago moffs italians this guy just gets his ass whipped every town he tries to move to in his golden years tries to move to in his golden years based off of a movie that he's seen he saw the wire moved to baltimore i have to say yeah that's like you said though i have to say incredible taste in film yeah definitely i mean i'm trying to i mean yeah yeah i don't know think about how much that climate's changed though like now it's like god, we love people to move to Letcher County. Now it's like you've got the seven or eight sort of overlords that are like, oh, you're not really from, you know what I mean?

Like, 2005, man, they were welcoming every motherfucker. You're right. Now it's like, go back to wherever you came from, you fucking yuppie scum. Oh, my God, dude. I'm getting paid $4 an hour to do Vista work. Yeah, I've heard it all before. It really is like that. I really did hear someone the other day ask another person where they're originally from.

And you would have thought that they fucking, you know, asked them their deepest, darkest secret. They were like Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah. It's like, man, people are cognizant of it now. They're shook now. Dude, it's fucked up. Here's the thing, man.

Here you are. Here's the thing I want to talk about a little bit. I feel like this might be an episode that might razz some people, but I'm going to get there because that's the origins of what we do. I've been thinking a lot about indigenous movements in light of recent events. Oh, the new revelation that this

scholar was pretending to be Native American? No, no, no. I was thinking more actually of like, you know, Israeli myths about them. Okay. Like, you know how it's like the Israeli thing has sort of been branded an indigenous movement yes it's like yeah yeah have we actually adequately challenged appalachia's right to exist say more well i just you know it's large like you know everybody's talking about like well

i'm really from here but but are you really am i from here i'm probably if if i'm just saying all things being equal here i probably belong in belfast well technically yeah i mean if you really want to get into it god damn red hander fucking ulster or some shit deserving of death no doubt the people that live here in appalachia got here the exact same way that people got in the occupied territories exactly the same way exactly the same way it's no different but it's never interrogated because that's dude that's the weird thing that's happened. A lot of it's a passage of time, right?

Right. Like, you know, this place was settled like 200 and something years ago as opposed to like Israel settled and colonized in the 40s. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, it's weird because somewhere along the way, in the middle of the 20th century, people just assumed that if you lived here, you were, by virtue of living here, an oppressed identity, an oppressed ethnic white, basically. Right. argument that this was an internal colony to the united states and people developed a framework with which to understand how people lived here and that framework is i can't even remember what they call it now i think they just call it the colony theory the colonial theory that people

here are basically subaltern they're not working class proletariat and you see you see what i've kind of drawn the israel Israeli comparison a little bit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, there are claims to grievance and exploitation. Absolutely. That people live here. Absolutely. But being hillbilly is not one of them.

Because that identity actually was constructed through genocide and displacement of other people. So it's so bizarre to me that people even use that as a... Like an honorific. Yeah. Not even honorific, but you know what I'm saying. Like, oh, that's just a badge of... Right. Now, there are obviously...

This is like the most impoverished part of the U.S. Like, there's obviously a poor working class here. I mean, no one's disputing that. But, like, that's the grounds on which to, you know, mount some sort of resistance movement. Not this, like, hillbilly nationalist thing

because it's... Because, like, the thing about that is that it can easily become reactionary. Not easily. I mean, it can easily become reactionary. Not easily. It has. It already is. When you've got motherfuckers embarrassed to say where they're from.

Yeah. I just like. Yeah, bro. You're like two notches above show me your papers or some shit. You know what I mean? It's like. And I don't mean to play flippant with that comparison either. But it's like there is a weird chauvinism to it that's like,

yeah, it's pre-reactionary. Well, what, actually, play it out in the Middle East. Let's fast forward the clock 200 years. The project that they've been working on for the past 70 fucking years, which we've just watched slowly and slowly become more of a reality that we can do nothing about right play that out how's that going to look in 200 years what's going to happen is that those settler colonies that they have created and have finally accomplished what they've wanted to accomplish this whole time which is largely white ethno a white ethno-state. A white ethno-state having expelled all the indigenous people that live there.

For that to function in a capitalist political economy, some of those colonialists will have to be proletariat. Because right now, a lot of the proletariat are Palestinians. They went on strike like a fucking week ago and shit started getting fucked up. Yeah. Because so much of the economy there functions on a palestinian or not israeli proletariat but eventually in like i said a couple centuries if we still have capitalism we will look at it like the way we look at oklahoma the way we look at yeah not really oklahoma i guess because that's kind of where people were forced to but like

you know north carolina and places where like natives were expelled and yeah yeah yeah it's a it's a really weird deal uh i don't know man the whole the whole the politics of it all has become so uh like when i first started when i first became aware of palestine like that was at a time when no one talked to any i mean they were obviously in like the higher echelons of academia but no one was talking about this like lived experience stuff you know yeah that wasn't like that wasn't really a thing that weather didn't catch fire till about 10 years later right so i don't know but no i mean the analogy is interesting.

I mean, it's very interesting to me that there's not been a reappraisal of any of those, like, Sort of formative academic critiques. Not really critiques, but frameworks of Appalachian's founding. Exactly. It's really bizarre to me that that passed. And you can actually find examples. And these are good people. People whose work i actually respect people who like did good things in their communities and careers but you can find actual

quotes of them using the term um i think i sent it to you one day like helen lewis and tom gish were referring to people here as like wasn't it like white indigenous or something like that or white the white negro i think is i mean it was something like that yeah yeah i mean maybe that's maybe i'm mixing hell and lizard with norman mailer but like easy mistake to make yeah i mean i i mean that that is it's just really bizarre to me that that's not been um i mean it's a niche right like obviously your normal person doesn't know anything about all that. But in Appalachian Studies world, that's like a formative thing.

Yeah. It's like... It's like you can't question the gospel of Ron Eller or like... And it's only been recent that you can challenge like Harry Cottle. I know. You know what I mean? Like for all his, you know. Yeah, I mean, I don't know dude uh i recently reread uneven ground by ron eller

and a large part of his thesis is that the war on poverty basically brought together all of the makings of um he's not wrong at least at the political economic level it brought together all of the people and ideas to create this sort of like colonial model theory that's what they call it the colonial model um but he kind of um praises it like it's a good thing like oh now we've got this movement that's you know clear-minded and can actually articulate its demands. And Appalachia needs to be autonomous. And it's just like, what is Appalachia? Who the fuck is included in this project?

Like, I mean, I don't do that. It's this weird kind of like postmodern thing where like people to not have to talk about the proletariat and working class and everything, it was this convenient way to just look at how the region as a whole had been exploited rather than a class. I'm probably not articulating that well at all. Yeah.

And the myth-making in it all, I think, is interesting. It's like, I remember listening to a Chopo episode, I think it was the one where they were at like c-pack or something like that they were talking about like the weird israeli like like uh i think it was like netanyahu had like some sort of like is like israeli or hebrew coin like on his desk or something like he was like he traces that back to his family can trace their lineage back to the house of david or the house of solomon or something like he was like he traces that back to his family can trace their lineage back to the house of david or the house of solomon or something like that it's yeah it's like people do like a similar thing here yeah yeah or with that like whole like but it's like it's like well you're like hungarian raised in like the philly suburbs you know what i mean like chill out you know what I mean? Dude, it's weird. It's because, dude, I don't know.

I guess it functions differently in different contexts. With the Israeli thing, it's obviously a process or an operation of propaganda and erasure of other histories. Here, it's like, because multiple classes of people do it, you know, here. I, however, have noticed it

more among the professional classes. People who are in non-profits or politics. Who talk about, yeah, ninth generation, whatever. Yeah, my daddy's daddy's days are like, we've been here since the 1500s. I'm like, you know what that means, don't you?

If you're proud of that, might have a little more in common with, say, I don't know, Andrew Jackson than y'all want to believe. Dude, none of us want. It's so weird. I think this is partially. So when you brought this up a second ago

where I thought you were going with this was there was a story in the New York Times about this professor at UC Riverside. Her name is Andrea Smith who has been, like 10 years ago, she was outed as having faked her Cherokee identity. Like not even kind of, like had not a single. Like on a scale of like, you know,

my cousin Randy to like, to Elizabeth Warren. where are we talking here uh definitely i'm not really sure what side of the spectrum cousin uh pocahontas from i guess i should say pocahontas is my great great great great which pocahontas wasn't even jerry right right that doesn't really matter um it was definitely more of the Elizabeth Warren thing. And I should say that, like, of course, DNA genetics don't make you, you know, anything, racist social construct,

but it has to do with does the community embrace it. I like that you threw that disclaimer out there because you knew somebody was going to get in the DMs and say that to you. I do that too. I throw out all these qualifiers because I'm scared of the hate. I'm a little bitch.

I'm a little coward. But no, I know what you mean though. That doesn't necessarily mean anything if a tribe is welcomed you as part of. Well, I kind of... I think the case with her is that she's using it for careerist means. That she's an academic, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I imagine that. So, yes. And that's the funny thing about this is, like, the article is, like, is there something wrong with academia? It's like, you're just now getting there, huh? Yeah, exactly. Just, like, wow. now getting there just yeah exactly just just like wow um yeah so i mean like my most charitable reading of this is that it could be like like when i was in high school okay i used to wear

full disclosure you know i i hate to admit this now as a 33-year-old man, but as Jaguar, sure. Even worse. Well, that too. I used to wear a puka shell necklace like a lot of dudes did in the 2000s in the aughts. Oh, man. Had I kept wearing it, though, after, you know, high school, well into my 20s, and then getting on into my 30s, I feel like it would have become like, and it's like one of those weird, embarrassing things, you just can't, like, you're embarrassed by it, your friends know you're embarrassed by it,

you know that your friends know that you're embarrassed by it, like, it becomes a sort of weird thing, which you can't let go, because, you know, you've built your identity around it, whatever. That could be what's going on in my most charitable reading yeah of her obviously the more cynical is that yes this is a careerist person who whose career was uh assisted by these like you know in the social world where your identity does... I mean, let's be real. We have to be real about this. In academia, it's not nothing what your identity is. Right.

Right? Right. I mean... Let me ask you a question. Did it end up she was Italian? It was not even that. Okay. She was just straight up up like sky's irish or something because i was thinking about like you know the tv ads with the native like american man crying or whatever yeah that actor

was italian well all right right right so before anybody misinterprets what i just said let me just say this okay let me just if you're an italian academic you're really missing out if you're not falsifying your native american heritage let me just say this if you look at academia obviously the people at the top the most powerful people in it people who are the decision makers the people with tenure etc they're mostly white mostly male etc etc um and but if you started trying to like figure out how many of these people though are faking their identities like how would you go about doing that like yeah you'll turn into a eugenics project really quick right exactly it'd be like like like yeah like ethnic hygiene it's like you know what i mean like yeah it turns into a whole other thing

it would be a very fascinating experience and honestly i think they should do that well here's what here's what here's here was my solution to academia you have two options okay number one you could start a stalin-esque purge where you make everybody prove their racial bona fides which would be to me i would enjoy that i mean let's be real here i think that watching these people you just want to sit up there doing the birdman hand rub for everybody that's claimed native ancestry and just wait when it comes out and says scottish and french that not not just not only that but just to like watch people denounce their friends and like just to watch the whole spectacle of it all just to be like you're not one eighth etc etc you know what i mean just like the whole fucking specious just completely vapid spectacle of it all.

Of these people who take themselves so fucking seriously as like knowledge producers in society. And it's just like, okay, so you could do that, and that'd be fun. Or you could do the other option, which would honestly be way more fun.

Abolish the university abolish academia do away with it it's pointless at this point it's like tanya said a million times all it is is window dressing for like amateur sports anyway if you read this article that's all it was people were afraid to denounce her because it would hurt their careers and it would hurt the careers of the people who had put their names onto her projects and that and that just kind of gives away the ball game it's just a fucking game of like meritocracy and like who's greased whose palms and a game of politics and all this and it's just like is this really knowledge production this kind of seems to me like it might be something else other than just knowledge production yeah i mean what would what would if and to borrow the the meme du jour of last week

if socrates you know where the academy started i guess maybe school of athens i don't know i don't i have no idea what the origins of academia i. I can see that up front. But if he was out philosophizing, what would he say about the current state of... The current state of Socrates? What would be the Socratic thought on all this? Socrates would definitely say, without a doubt, I mean, it's beamed straight in from 2500 BC.

Straight into my brain. Or like 700 BC or whatever. Whenever Socrates is around. He would definitely say, trust your own instincts. Fuck little boys between the ages of six and 12. What you really need to do

is reintroduce the concept of Greek love. I've been saying. That's what Socrates would probably, he'd say, look, you're wasting all of your time in the academy when you could be fucking children. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you're fucking way out there. It's so funny that like all the people, you know the guys that are really into the classics. Yes. You're just reading a bunch of fucking wake up. It's so funny that, like, all the people, like, you know the guys that are really into the classics?

Yes. It's like you're just reading a bunch of fucking pedos. Really. I mean, ultimately, what'd you get down to? You know what I mean? Dude, that's the case for, I mean, everything and everyone is bad, really. Yeah. Yeah, none of us come out on the other end of it unscathed, although hopefully you do on that count.

Yeah, hopefully you don't fuck around. Or, you know, at the very least what ends up happening is you beat up a Vietnam veteran that moved here. Like, you know, when you think about all the crimes of everybody we lionize in society. Uh-huh. Like, our society is based largely on Jesus and Socrates. And while Jesus was a man without spot or blame, Socrates, you know. Yeah.

I don't really know much about him. I know he drank hemlock, which I've always been interested in as a method of suicide. That's like, I wonder what that was all about. Wasn't there the guy at the Hague that kind of did that? Oh yeah, he did. He took that shot. It's a meme that goes around.

It wasn't him locked up. That would be funny. What if it was? What if he was like a suicide hipster? It's like, I'm going out like Socrates. Suicide hipster. It's like, oh no, man. Like shooting yourself.

That's so gauche. I'm doing unlock like I did, no, man. Like, shooting yourself. That's so gauche. I'm doing Unlock like I did, you know, when men were men. Yeah. Had relationships with young boys. I guess the point I was making earlier is, like, all of the power structures in academia are white, straight white people or whatever. Whatever the identity du jour of the oppressor is right now.

But if you want them to be the ones, um, operationalizing and, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Conducting a Stalinist purge of people who might, whose race identity might be questionable. I can't advise that. I don't think it would be the best thing to do. But the alternative is also, there's just no hope. That's why it has to be abolished. Just fucking abolish the university.

Yeah, here's a good thing. When we sit here, we've racked our brains constantly about what's the way forward generically, in society, whatever, politically. When in doubt, just destroy it. Start from the drawing board. Just destroy it.

Very few institutions are worth saving, honestly. I agree. Listen, you'll get no argument from me there. Start from the top. Yeah, no, you're right. Just destroy it. There we are. We, um...

So, yeah, someone's gonna misinterpret that and I hope they do. What else do we got in the old hopper for this week? I wanted to read a little bit of an article.

We're at 53 minutes. Yeah, get into it. I guess we got in the old hopper for this week? I wanted to read a little bit of an article. We're at 53 minutes. Yeah, get into it. I guess we got a few minutes. There's this article in the Atlantic I thought would be kind of fun to dig into. I posted about it. It's in the Atlantic's ideas section. Okay, got. Love some good ideas.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ooh, is this the... Yes, capitalism doesn't have to be this way. Or what did you think it was? I was thinking it was the one about... The one about Israel-Palestine? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there is one we could do about Israel-Palestine

that I kind of wanted to save for the Patreon. We'll save it then. Oh, dude, we could do it because... I mean, it's... Here, let me find it. It was... I mean, it because uh i mean it's here let me find it it was i mean it's it's obviously it's dersh it's the dersh oh yeah yeah was this the one in the hill yeah oh my god i forget i don't know who posted but it was like wait till you see who wrote this i just posted that it was why does the hard left glorify the Palestinians Okay I'll let you choose

One of these two Man given the choice I'm always going Dersh So Okay Why does the hard left always glorify the Palestinians In a world in which massive violations I feel like in between every single word of a Dersh article, there should be a disclaimer.

Like every, it should have a footnote after every word. So at the end, it's like maybe 700 footnotes. And every footnote reads, this man's a pedophile. You have to understand this man, this man was on the Lolita Express, St. James Isle. In a world in which massive violations of human rights This man was on the Lolita Express, St. James Isle. In a world in which massive violations of human rights have tragically become the norm, why has the hard left focused on one of the least compelling of those causes, namely the Palestinians?

This is a disgusting human being. This is a disgusting human. Fucks children. I mean, I need to say allegedly here, according to the lawyers, but... Nurse himself will come after you. Yeah, but I mean, anybody just gleefully reveling in the destruction and murder of an entire people, I mean, do you really have to say allegedly that they fuck kids?

It's not off their moral compass, I'll say that. I like how Nurse's defense was, my wife was with me every second on that island. As I almost have to say, she curved my worst impulses. Sure, man. Where is the concern for the Kurds, the Chechens, the Uyghurs, the Tibetans?

Well, I mean... Yes. We're there with all that, too. So, yeah. So, I mean, to take these one by one, the Kurds. The Kurds aren't being... The Kurds are a massive...

They're spread across a massive geographical area in like three separate countries iran iraq turkey even in parts of syria i think um i mean are they being subject to a formal apartheid slash genocide in the same way that the palestinians are i would not say that they are however they are uh yeah they're displaced they deserve some sort of autonomous uh land of their own some sort of um whatever i mean yeah i feel like the left has been championing the kurds for fucking ever yeah that's not yeah the uy The Uyghurs, that one is, I don't really know anything about that. I guess I'm proving

his point here. That's not the strongest defense. I just, I'm just going to have to look into that a little bit more. Yeah,

when it comes to China, I, I just, here's the reality with stuff with China. It's not a cop-out. I just don't really know enough. Well, Adam Curtis in his recent doc took the position that the repression of the Uyghurs existed.

I'm not discounting that either. I just don't know. In the Tibetans, there are... there are look okay it doesn't matter the point i'm trying to work towards here is that with the exception of the kurds none of these are affected by american policy really like in the sense that like what's happening to the palestinians is a direct result of things the American government decides to fund. If anything, the government funded the Beastie Boys doing the Tibetan freedom thing every year.

That was Adam Yelch's cause, you know what I mean? Exactly. The Tibetan cause might actually be a PSYOP, but... I don't know, but... I don't know. To undermine Chinese government. I'm just kidding. But the point is, I don't really know about any of those other ones. The Chechens...

What did you say about the Dalai Lama? You just spooked because you've been called down before for criticizing the Dalai Lama. Alright, okay, alright. Alright. criticizing the Dalai Lama. Alright, okay, alright. It depends on what day of the week you catch me and what mood of mind I'm in.

But I might pop off and say something like, something like, yeah, maybe that has been over... Dalai Lama CIA, yes. I'm kidding. The point is, I have no control over how China treats the Uyghurs

and the Tibetans or how the Russians treat the Chechens. I have a little bit of control over how the Kurds are treated, but even then, it's pretty far out of my hands. Israel is so... I had a fucking friend in high school his name is manny manny if you're out there somehow listening to this i don't know what path led you to this but this motherfucker went from hobs new mexico to israel to fighting the fucking idf that that tells me that there's a relationship going on here that i might have a

little bit of complicity in or at least some proximity or at least proximity to or slash ability to affect and change right so maybe that's why we care a little bit about it yeah you know i don't know yeah yeah Yeah. You imagine somebody that was like in Philadelphia, that was like a high school classmate of Benjamin Netanyahu that's experiencing the same thing you're experiencing now, but like on 10. Seriously. I mean, just the idea, I don't know,

just the idea that, yeah, you would just go and like be a part of this other country just because they claim to be the indigenous people there. That fucking, god damn, that fucking tweet that was said like, Zionist in 1898. You can give us land in Uganda or Palestine or wherever and we'll be a beacon of European enlightenment amongst these savages.

And then Zionist in 2021. I love the olive bushes of my native homeland. The fucking Zionists at that time didn't even, they weren't entirely fucking focused on Palestine, whether at that time it was called Palestine. Right. But it fucking would have taken anywhere. Right. And then the anti have taken anywhere. Right.

And then the anti-Semitic project of, like, the founding of that is definitely rooted in European powers not wanting Jewish people in Europe. You know what I mean? Trying to expel them. I mean, anyways, this article just goes on to just heap the most outrageous and disgusting slander and abuse on the Palestinian people. But, yeah, there are no campus demonstrations on their behalf. The Kurds, Chechens, Uyghurs in Tibet. Bro, the Beastie Boys again did a whole goddamn festival devoted to Tibetan freedom.

Relax. The Palestinian cause got Bella Hadid, you know, wearing a keffiyeh on fucking TikTok. Like, relax. You're right. Yeah. On the merits and demerits of their claims, Palestinians have the weakest case, blah, blah. I mean, like, obviously this guy thinks that this people needs to be wiped out off the face of the earth. Like, that's what he thinks.

He says it here but also the thing is too like it like if you're like like you're gonna hurl like claims of anti-semitism and people that support palestinian liberation it's like you're no less of a bigot you know what i mean like dershowitz is no less of a bigot than an anti-semite here exactly you know i mean it's just from a different angle. I mean, it's harder and harder for these people to even um to even disguise that fact. Sorry, I'm reading this

sentence. The Kurds have never been offered independence or statehood, despite treaties that promised it. These motherfuckers with their like, buddy, we offered the Palestinians thisinians this in 2000 they wouldn't come to the table they wouldn't say no it's like motherfucker i've been in eastern kentucky politics enough to know how that fucking shit works right like dude the fucking i mean i

posted about this on twitter the other day during fucking peace talks in 97, Netanyahu tried to have Khalid Mishal, is that his name, assassinated. In the middle of fucking peace talks, he tried to have him assassinated. I mean, like, that's what they're up against. Right. I don't, I mean, that's their, but that's the argument he's making here.

They've been offered, they've been offered a state all these times. You imagine making, with the knowledge of that, that Benjamin and Nahoo tried to have, I mean, Yasser Arafat, whoever, like all this stuff. And they're trying to argue with a straight face that they met at the table with a good deal in place

and y'all just were too stubborn to accept it. Yeah, while one of them is out trying to have the other team assassinate, definitely good meeting and good faith. I mean, it's not... Who was it? It was Anwar Sadat and who... I forget who.

Jimmy Carter had tried to broker the peace deal, which I know Anwar Sadat was Egyptian. But he was... Did they assassinate him? I think the Muslim Brotherhood assassinated him. Yeah, I didn't mean to rewrite history and say the Israelis assassinated Anwar Sadat. I don't mean that.

But they did assassinate Yitzhak Rabin. Yitzhak Rabin, yeah. I mean, fucking for just even having... Entertaining the notion of... Entertaining the fucking idea. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, man.

Anyways, why? The answer is clear and can be summarized in one word. Jews. Like, every time these motherfuckers, like, trot this out, it always sounds way more antisemitic than anything else. Than any argument anybody else is making, yeah. And then they project on to other people yeah yeah anyways I do think it's kind

of rich the idea that like yeah the Kurds know this is like the Kurds have been offered a state many times and have had it like just yanked back at the last minute by fucking kissinger and nixon like ford this hat this has happened many times throughout history it's like these guys just can't wrap their head around why there's no good faith dealing with the united states exactly and its interests exactly it's like the same thing that we've done to the kurs as well as done to Palestine. At least in the

negotiating sense. Anyways, you know what I mean. But yeah. That's the Dersh, baby. Can't read any more of that. It's gonna make me fucking nauseous. Just an absolute piece of shit. But

yeah. Yeah. Just an absolute piece of shit. But, yeah. Move to Hinton, West Virginia, if you'd like to. I can just imagine them doing, like, an Appalachian birthright at some point. Where they just move people to West Virginia.

You know what I mean? It's like... Some motherfucker's gonna grow up in, in like Western Washington State and be like, yeah. My great, great, great. You know how those mothers are like, my great, great grandmother was from Kentucky. Yep. And I'm going back home. This is my ancestral home.

And then they come back here and just like start playing the banjo and wearing like ratty flannels. People already do that. And that's fine. That's fine. I mean, at least the difference is that in Israel, they give them a gun and tell them to go murder people. Here, they give you a banjo and maybe $12,000. Yeah, some chickens and taida.

Maybe $12,000 to get in on this program in West Virginia. Right, right. Oh, man. Jesus Christ. If you had, you know, you know how like with the Native American stuff, it's always like degree of blood kind of thing. Yeah. If you have that, they're going to do like a hillbilly thing.

But if that's that, you get to move to West Virginia and get like $12,000 of banjo. The caveat is that you have to have worked in the public sector and have a college degree. And be white, of course. Definitely.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You should read that article in the new york times about andrea smith i recommend it i read it last night and i i swear it if you could have just watched me read it and like watched the grin on my face just like dude i don't know i don't know i'm not impugning any any uh anybody's good work in the academy there are still good things that come out of it obviously yeah of course i mean we're comedy yeah we're we're exaggerating for the sake of laughs or something. But sometimes it's just prudent to ask, is there something wrong with academia?

Prudence being generous there. Yes, it's, yeah. Is there something wrong with the Trillbillies? Yeah. Is there something wrong with the Trillbillies? If so, you could abolish that by not subscribing to the Patreon. But why would you do that? Why would you do anything like that? That's dumb.

That would be... We're a perfectly fine institution that does not need to be abolished. Yes. So... In fact, we need more resources, so... You know. Do you feel like raising your subscription? Please.

Go to the Patreon, www.patreon.com slash Trailbilly Workers Party. You got some content up on there. Tanya will be back from vacation soon. We'll get to hear all about her travels. I was always made for good ones. Yeah, yeah. They'll probably be

on the Patreon, so why would you want to miss out on that? Yeah. So anyways, go sign up for that. Anything else before we... Yeah, drink water

and keep rocking in the free world, man. Sounds good. Good advice. All right. We'll see you next time. Okay, wait, everybody. I have something I forgot to mention on the show. So I used to live in Austin, Texas,

a place that I frequented from time to time there, Juice Land. Someone sent me this on Instagram, and I thought I needed to share it because it's pretty interesting. So some of their employees are currently wildcat striking, and they've closed at least six shops. And most of the production warehouses. They could really use some help. So I'm going to put the GoFundMe in the show link so that you can support them while

they're on strike and if you want to go check them out on instagram it's juice land workers rights uh and um so yeah i think that's very good and a very exciting thing you know fuck the juice land boxes man i never fucked with Juiceland, no way. JuiceWorld, maybe. In Austin, everything is land, you know, still. All right, anyways, I'll put that in the show link. Go check that out. Thanks, everybody, for listening.

We'll see you next time.