Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 263: Keep Your Politics Away From My Election (w/ special guests Ben Clarkson and Matt Bors)

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

This week we're joined by Ben Clarkson and Matt Bors to discuss why you all simply must VOTE HARDER if you'd like to see some change in the world Please go buy their amazing new book in the Justice Warriors series: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Justice-Warriors-Vol-2/Matt-Bors/JUSTICE-WARRIORS/9781952090325 Volume 1 Justice Warriors: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Justice-Warriors/Matt-Bors/JUSTICE-WARRIORS/9781952090226 And support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

On that note, what we were just talking about before we started recording, if aliens ever visit, if aliens ever come down to the world and we integrate them into society, and then they're flying our airplanes, will they be calling that DEI too? Like the DEI pilots are. The aliens can vote now. They're gonna build a border wall for the sky.

Yeah, I always joke about a space elevator online, but it'll be like a space wall, I guess. Yeah, they're going to just build a shell around the planet to protect our jobs. 100%. Kind of like Bubble City, yeah. Yes. Very much like that. Yes, so speaking of that Welcome to the show everybody this week

We're joined by Ben Clarkson and Matt Bors from the who have made the comic Justice Warriors I Read the I guess the second one. That was the one that vote harder. That's the one that I have on my computer I guess the second one, that was the one that, vote harder, that's the one that I have on my computer right now. Very much enjoyed it. And we can talk a little bit about it, but first I just wanna say that this week has been a week

of Justice Warriors type grotesqueries in the news. As every week is. As every week is. Every pod we go on, they're like, and these are some Justice Warriors stories, and they're just regular stories To me the two that stand out the most are the I didn't even know who this guy was prior to three days ago But the as mongold oh, yes, which guy who called Palestinian subhuman I think you know we could say plenty of stuff about that guy,

but he was banned from Twitch. But the other one that I- Oh, did he get the ban? I think he did. Great. I was actually, I was very cynical that he would see any consequences for advocating the removal of like one sixth the world's population.

Right. Well, it's weird you say that I mean because another one That has at the top of my feed today is Our old pal who looks a lot like me unfortunately I hate to admit it, but shy Davide I feel like we shit. He kind of doesn't like we are kind of like doppelgangers. It fucking sucks, man. I Like I like how he was claiming not to be white This week, but then like two years ago. He was like I am white. It's just like me. You're definitely white. There's no fucking Well, it just kind of it just kind of goes to show that whiteness is like this amorphous shifting category

You know what I mean that That anyone can adopt once you take a certain political position, like that being that you are a genocider, right? Yeah, I have this book of cartoons from the 70s, from the 60s. It's a collection of cartoons from the magazine, The Realist, and I'm always amazed when I flip through it that it's talking about Polish people

as though they're like the scum of the earth. And literally saying like, Polish people think they're white. This is ridiculous. It kind of reminds me of Lovecraft. Whatever he's talking about, all these tentacled monsters and this cosmic horror, it's like, oh, he's just talking about a Polish guy or a Chinese guy that he saw. That really made me scared, you know?

An Irishman. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's like what white people have done forever is slowly let other white people into the white category. They were obviously white, but we were just like, we're trying to really protect this shit. who got in on the ground floor of it though Like who's the og whites? I think that's not very much. I mean like who came off yacob's factory like He rolled off the factory floor

Reveal exactly how fucking stupid I am, but I'll just say this. I feel like the Germans really made a claim for it, right? The, the, the Boh- the Prussians made their best case, but I don't know. The British are pretty white. The British. Yeah, Anglo-Saxons, I guess, right? Yeah. Yeah. Whoever had, whoever ran the colony, uh, was white, I guess. Who was floating around in antiquity like Whiteness wise well, I mean that's the thing that we were talking about In the last episode you'd on the patreon right when we were talking about um when we read that that article by um What's what's it's honor Friedersdorf Friedersdorf where he was talking about oh well We should have an explorers day and celebrate explorers throughout human history, including the early hominids who crossed the

Bering Strait, you know? And he was like, it just goes to show that, you know, these, these, what is these, these, I guess these ideas of, of racism and of equality and all these things, these liberal platitudes that they haven't always existed in previous societies. And it's like, well, race wasn't a thing. You know what I mean? Nobody was out there being like, okay, how can we categorize? I mean, I'm sure there was some categorization, but it wasn't along racial lines, though. I don't think you know. No, these are these are new categories. And I think they're even still being invented. Like I'm always amazed because I'm Canadian apologies for that.

Oh, we can tell me. Whenever I watch American News, which I watch too much of because I'm Canadian, that's a problem with us. I'm always amazed, like breaking down voting by race. That's not necessarily a thing we do in Canada. But like the idea that there are different categories of people and they act certain ways and they fall into demographic information that we have to target and slice up and control and message to,

that's not really the case in every other country. And so it's sort of being invented in the present in real time in front of us all the time. It's a, you know, Kamala's gotta get the Irishman vote. The Irishman vote. Irishman for Harris. He's lagging far behind. You gotta do certain things to appeal to certain,

certain different races, like Italians and Irish. Germans, and you know what, man, that reminds me of, and I hope I'm not bullshitting because sometimes I remember things. I'm like, is that a bit I'm doing right now? Did that really happen? But I think in the year 2000, I think I told you Tom and Terrence this, in the year 2000 when it was like that census, right?

I just needed a job and I was a census taker. And I should you not, on the racial categories, I mean, I don't know if they switched it out by now. And anyone who's listening could tell me I'm bullshitting but I swear to god I remember seeing when it had the racial categories that it had like mongoloid and like negroted shit You know what I mean? So they were using like they were using like 19th 18th 17th century You know what I mean terms for people, you know, I feel like in the census you have like calipers in your Someone's head every time. I mean, I remember it's have like calipers in your

I mean, I remember it's even confused you'd think it'd be Easy to just be like white but then there's there is like it's like it says white Caucasian It's yeah, not like there's something like yes, fanning on white and I'm like y'all gives most sinister creation the white Latino Very pernicious, it's definitely all heading in that direction, right? I mean like that's the story of this election is Who can get more right wing about immigration? I? Mean yesterday Kamala went on Charlemagne Charlemagne the God show and was talking about like

If Republicans were serious about actually deporting the two million people or whatever that we wanted to port They would have supported the bill we wanted to pass a few months ago. I mean that like it's what yes It's that was her answer her answer was literally like oh if they were really serious about wanting to do blood and soil Nationalism they would have supported our the bill that we wanted. I feel like doesn't make them look good though It makes them look like nerds As opposed to saying like oh these people are sub people they're saying like they should have let us win in Congress No one's gonna go read the bill. You're not a feeling to... You're not getting the racist vote from that.

And you're just turning off anyone who gives a shit about the actual policies. 100%! Because you're right. Because the Republican base... I don't know. It's so wild. It's like Tom and I were talking about this the other night. The immigration thing...

There was a story in the Texas Tribune, I think. I saw it's so wild. It's like Tom and I were talking about this the other night. The immigration thing, there was a story in the Texas Tribune, I think, I saw a few days ago, that, and I don't mean to play this down, and I think we need to take Trump seriously at his word when he makes these insane screeds about wanting to deport all these people. However, there was a story in, like I said, I think it was the Texas Tribune about how like Texas has completely

Given up on trying to deport people and it's because Shocker the capitalists there the bosses really want that labor class like yes They don't they actually don't want to deport all these people and and so it becomes this kind of thing within Republican politics the same thing that abortion has become in liberal politics where it's like they say they'll do something But they're never gonna do it. You know what I mean? And they just want to like police The people more they just want to make right more of a subclass exactly They want to make their lives more pernicious, the police more pernicious in their lives, make it more precarious, give them less services, give them less rights

so that you can pay them less money. Exactly. Right. Like it's not about deporting them because the cost of deporting them would be ridiculous and then that actually hurts. Like that's really going to crash the American economy because the labor costs would skyrocket and then the housing costs would tumble. And I'm sorry, you have a bunch of absentee landlords now who just wanna collect rents and pushing those rents up is great for the capitalist class, is great for the landholders. Right, it reminds me of the story a couple years ago

that Vice had covered. I think it was a prison in Alabama where I think there were deportations that have happened with South American or Mexican migrants and these were people who had done a lot of farm work, you know, like cultivating crops and I think that they Alabama prison had Conscripted prisoners to do the same kind of work and they were just like either didn't know how to do it or just like I don't want to

fucking do this shit you know right and I mean there was just like a loss I forget what what a Pacific crop economy it was but there was like a kind of downturn you know because people who were willing to do the work and get paid for it you know even though even though it was very little but who wanted the opportunity to do that work I mean you, you just kicked him out, right? That's what America's about, baby. Come here, do a shitty job and get abused, and then maybe your kids can, you know, be subject to racism too.

Your kids can inherit your debt. Yeah, it's just this thing, like I said, I don't mean to, I'm not trying to downplay it or anything. I think that those messages from Trump are serious in the sense that I think what they're really geared towards is more towards what we would see have happened in Springfield, Ohio. They're more designed to foment,

basically pogroms and heavily, you know, more surveillance and policing. Which is why, like, I said this on the Patreon episode this past week, but it's why, like, I can easily see the, both the Republicans and the Democrats coming to a position of like, well, we're not gonna be able to deport all these people So let's just invade Mexico like I can easily see them

I can see them coming to that conclusion quicker than annex it again Which would go into our because we were talking about the patreon to one which would go into our kind of um We were talking about this this theory or this idea or this resurgence of manifest destiny, right? That's become very hot in culture and in politics. Yeah. It would just dovetail very well. We already got New Mexico. We got a New Texas, Southern Texas.

Texas too. It's going to be new, like new metal or new trek with an NU. Yeah. Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah. The Unlot on top of it. Yeah, the Unlot on top of like, yeah, yeah Yeah, the own lot on top That would bring the Germans down yeah Also on commonly's appearance on Charlemagne's show yesterday she finally called trump of

Fascist is that I guess it's the first time. Oh, I didn't catch that. She said fascist. I find that a bit cringe because it's like, maybe this is me exposing myself to be a cringe internet leftist. Isn't everyone in the American state a fascist? Yeah, I mean I would think so, exactly. I'm sorry, they're using the, they're bombing the planet. Well, it's also like a pot calling the kettle black situation because it's like, you know,

there's virtually no daylight on the big three things that kind of define American fascism for both Republicans and Democrats now, so it's like the Spider-Man point. 100%. 100%. Like both genociders, both punting on climate change. I mean like, yeah. And both want to just militarize the border, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And every city in America. The whole plan is just to make the border into an a crazed killer obstacle course You get in you deserve it. Yeah, it's tough mutter. You know that was a thing you get a temporary work

Yeah, it's um it's We're you know we're coming down to the last three weeks of this election, but I don't I've said this many times on the show and as we get closer and closer. I think it's more and more true I just don't think this will ever end I don't think that like I think it we I think if Trump wins the Democrats will Probably initiate some sort of I mean cuz like Mark Milley came out this week and said that what did he say Trump's a fascist to his core like the former Joint Chiefs of Staff. Yeah but that guy frankly that guy's like a

deep state stooge right like not to be once again a cringe internet leftist but the the CIA really doesn't want Trump to win. They don't like him because he's not blooded into their team, frankly. Right. And he also creates instability, right? Yeah, he creates instability for their system, for their ideas of how things are going to work. And Kamala is fully integrated in that.

She's been given the space that she's allowed allowed to work in and she's working in that space Trump is more like Trump is a he's dancing he's dancing to the Spotify playlist you know he's a little worrying all around right is he gonna keep the program moving forward what what is he even gonna get to the the mass deportations or is he gonna space out? Yeah? It's gonna get bored right yeah, yeah this week something happened didn't he I mean I was telling Tom the other day like Trump right now really is kind of like late career Lou Reed in the sense that like is kind of like late career Lou Reed in the sense that like it's like half the time of Kings of New York

Yeah like half the time it's complete duds and then the other half it's the best shit you've ever heard you're like what the fuck is going on here it's like his thing, his thing the other day he was like the wind, the wind it's bullshit like his delivery on that fucking killed me and then he also said that we could have a win the economy Sorry, did you also say that too? Yeah?

It's I think he was like the thing that's been killing me the most is like his brush with death has made him sort of Cosmetic like have a cosmic outlook because he said something the other day that was like the world It's quite small compared to the universe. It's like the other day that was like the world it's quite small compared to the universe it's like I'm telling you do you like like oh no I just I love I love late-period Trump sad boy I mean it's funny because it's you know he's considering on some level that he's not gonna win win. Right. Which I don't think he wants to win. I think that he's really just going to the motions. He doesn't want to win. He just feels like he has to because he's in charge because he's the biggest and he's the coolest. Like his ego is driving him to be the president of this dying system and he

doesn't want to do it. And like when I try to like interpret the election, because I'm insane, when I try to interpret the election from like a literary point of view, like what is the better story? Like Trump, the degenerate, like he's literally degenerating. Yeah, yeah. Like him becoming the president again

after everyone hating him and kicking him out the first time, but we can't resist the generation or is like the new image of fascism Kamala being voted in is that the better story right right like I'm hard-pressed I don't know what's gonna happen I honestly have been trying to like interpret my own comic book and be like how did we tell the future here? Like what did my book say is gonna happen? I don't know what what type of Tom Wolf novel this is yet It really is like are we gonna elect like I've been read Dune But what's that what's the is it Harkonnen the big really disgustingly job of the hut looking dude Yeah, that being Trump versus versus electing the first female Hitler

of color, you know what I mean? Which one is it gonna be? Female Atreides of color. Also to your point too, man, I want to say, I think Trump and his assassination attempt, it was not just a confrontation with losing the election, a realization, but also that he's going to die someday. Yeah.

You know? Because he doesn't like to think about that. So it was when that one streamer offered him a car with him holding up his fist and he's just looking at it in disgust because he's reminded or Elon Musk mentioning at that rally that he got shot. And you could just tell that Trump was just like,

don't mention it, don't talk about it, no. I don't want to think about it Elon Musk on that podcast just the first question How did it how did it feel when they tried to shoot you in the head? That was cool the lowest point of his life, you know But the um The the fucking Trump quote recently that killed me Was people were pointing out. It's like straight out of a Dalila novel, but the word grocery It's sort of a simple word, but it it sort of means like everything you eat the stomach is speaking it always does He's capable of such brilliance

He is you know just such insights of linguistics and etymology and existentialism, you know what I mean? Because he's true. It does mean, when I think of groceries, my stomach rumbles. I think of food. His stomach gets me. I mean, he's like a guy down at the bar. It's what he should be, really. He's kind of racist

Cheats on his wife, but you know, he's funny. He cut you get you want to get him going Sit next to it, but not for too long Yeah, when you want to leave it's like, okay I'm gonna go smoke a cigarette outside and then maybe go to the bar down the block, you know Yeah, there's diminishing returns is literally when that guy gets sober right the block you know yeah there's diminishing returns is literally when that guy gets sober right right a billionaire and president thank God for alcohol oh man well I you know I wanted to have you guys on because the theme of your latest comic is obviously voting and elections. In your comic, the election is an ancient procedure that is basically revived in order to settle a sort of like conflict between the ruling classes, which definitely does not mirror our world in any way at all

Yes You're picking up on some things but um, there's two there's two things out of the Atlantic this week. I wanted to Read that that touch on this topic of voting and Election Day and civic duty, right? and voting and election day and civic duty, right? And we like to read from the Atlantic on this show, especially from the ideas section, because the ideas are always, they're always bangers, they're always great. I mean, the ideas are like the literal expression

of the light bulb going on, where you're just illuminated with just this amazing thing that I would have never even thought of like Explorer's day for example, right explorers day. Yes On the patreon this past week We read from Connor Friedersdorf's column about how he wants to replace Columbus Day and Indigenous Peoples Day with explorers day It's like, you know, they it's it's a the the house style at the Atlantic now is Basically like second grader

Finding out about you know, American civics for the first time right like that Right or finding out about anything for the first time really? Yeah, and having to write like a one-page paper, but also padding it, you know to reach the word count, you know And it's really funny and ironic just as a side tangent that that's kind of that's where Ta-Nehisi Coates started that broke out he broke free of Well, he got better ideas, I guess you know, yeah better ideas they pushed him out because I just get better But there's two things I wanted to read in the vein of vote harder. So the first article is from a guy named Peter Weiner.

I don't know how to say his last name. I'm a child, I'm sorry. Just do it. Sounds like Weiner to me. Just do it. If your last name is already Weiner, I would probably go by and your first name is another word for wiener I would probably go on my second Penis penis

But this this article is called this election is different No election prior to the Trump era regardless of the outcome ever caused me to question the fundamental decency of America era regardless of the outcome ever caused me to question the fundamental decency of America Okay, so I'm just reading exactly like they were saying in 2016 Please continue that this will be a theme for the rest of our lives boys This will this election will be different every election for the rest of our lives But This wouldn't this one is it very much in the theme of Kamala's recent attempts to pull the right towards her party with the country over party.

And a video was circulating this week of Karl Rove basically saying the exact same thing that this article is going to save. And people were saying that it was Karl Rove coming out for Kamala Harris I am a moron and I took the bait I Thought it was him saying that but apparently the video was from February. I still believe that but I still yes Well, you know, she's got dick chaining on board You know the whole Bush administration Has been pretty anti Trump this whole time They're like the only holdouts

in the Republican Party that aren't fully on board. Well, to be honest, it's probably like, if I'm going to sound like a crazed internet conspiracy theorist guy again, it's probably the project for a new American Century group chat. It's like, hey, this is our best bet to get a forward hold again in the Middle East now that the last one fell apart Well, he's not I mean Trump is a lot of things and he's kind of all over the place Sometimes but he's not a neoconservative like right, you know, right, right? Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm just waiting for Condi Rice You know to come out with an endorsement so we can get some of that black girl magic, you know

And then they're gonna they're gonna exhumed Colin Powell, you know what I mean and get that endorsement to and then we're cooking with fire, baby You know, yeah It it's yes It's Pat I think it's undeniable at this point that this is an election between third term Bush and second term Trump And that is really how bottom of the barrel we've gotten here It is really that is a good point. It is like a It's an election for the future of the Republican Party

So I'm gonna read here when I was a young boy my father adorned the back of our Dodge Coronet 440 station wagon with bumper stickers proud to be an American one read a Manifestation of a simple truth both of my parents deeply loved America and they transmitted that love to their four children. In high school I defended America in my social studies class. I wrote a paper defending America's support for the South Vietnamese in the war that had recently ended in defeat. I hope he got bullied. I hope he got swirlies, atomic swirlies, and I hope he got harassed every single day by other kids in his class. I love how he's defending America in civics class

It's not on the shores of like Korea or something yes civics also It's he wrote that after the end of the Vietnam War like imagine in 1978 you're writing defending the South to Vietnamese. It's like they don't exist anymore. They're gone At the University of Washington I applied for a scholarship or award of some kind I don't recall the specifics But I do recall meeting with two professors who were not happy that in a paper I'd written I had taken the side of the United States in the Cold War Their view was that the US and the Soviet Union were much closer to moral equivalents than I believed then or now. That probably didn't happen, right? I mean, I don't

know. I feel like you'd get a better job in a university, universally, in the United States if you were a raw, raw patriot. Like, who's saying like, oh, Stalin's got some great, Gorbachev, great guy. And like getting, oh, he should have tenure. They should put missiles in Cuba. You're right, Jim. As a young conservative who worked

in the Reagan administration, I was inspired by Ronald Reagan's portrayal of America a shining city upon a hill Reagan mythologized America, but the myth was built on what we believe was a core truth within the conservative intellectual movement I was part of writers such as Walter Burns William Bennett and Leonard our cast and Cass, and the historian Gertrude Himmelfarb wrote powerfully about it. Himmelfarb, that is the sound. Once again, lots of German names coming in. You have a little word right now. I find this moment particularly painful and disorienting.

I have had strong rooting interests in Republican presidential candidates who have won and those who have lost, including some for whom I have great personal admiration and on whose campaigns I worked, but no election prior to the Trump era, regardless of the outcome, ever caused me to question the fundamental decency of America." Oh yeah. Do you remember even in 2000, when they deployed like Republican crisis actors to Florida to like pretend that they were authentic people protesting? They think-

The Brooks Brothers, right. They pulled off what Trump tried to do with like Georgia and Pennsylvania and the vote being stolen because it was so close. Yeah, I don't know man. It feels a lot like you know, I know that liberals have been saying every election we've had during my lifetime is the most important election of our lifetime. And maybe they are but it feels annoying hearing people just come to this conclusion that it's

that it's suddenly important and that this one is gonna be the end of the country. I have a friend, probably multiple friends, but I got at least one friend who thinks he's now important setup, he's white, and he's not a migrant worker or anything like that, believes he will be put in a concentration camp if Trump wins for being, you know, like too liberal. And

like, you know, I don't want to downplay the real horrible shit that's gonna happen if Trump wins, but it's like get a fucking grip. Yeah. Also, Democrats already do that. Liberals already do that when they have power, you know what I mean? Silencing, shutting down, ostracizing people to the left of them. Yeah, campus, who was cracking heads on college campuses? Who was president during that? They're deploying MRAPs. They're deploying like sound cannons on campus to break the inner ear of anyone who says the word Palestine, like, I'm sorry. That's what's so obnoxious about it is like, you have Democrats really taking the Republican position on immigration in particular in a way that you're just like,

oh man, it's become entirely about Trump for some people. Like Democrats, I get that there's an election that one of them is going to win and that, you know, I have a strong preference that it's not Trump but like the way people just switch off their fucking brains when Democrats do something is Maddening it's concerning. It's extremely concerning. We use the example on our patreon this past week of someone who was mad that They were going to potentially die of an ectopic presidency all because

blue hairs had to riot on campuses for Palestine and it's like if you can't already see that you can already die from an ectopic president pregnancy in this country like that's not a good sign it's very concerning that you keep that you selectively ignore that it's the nation that dies from an ectopic presidency. Yeah, I keep saying ectopic presidency. I don't. It's this weird product of, I think, the American selective imagination,

and then also the two-party system, the bipolar system, that anything I don't like the other party is doing to me. It can't be across the board, right? This idea that like, oh, one candidate is the peace candidate. There is this idea that there has to be a peace candidate because there's two options, right? One has to be canceling the other one out. And which is insane to me that there's a massive population of people that can't see that

both parties fully support global war. Right. Right. A global race war at that, again, is what it feels like increasingly. 100%. We've got the Polish and the Irish out there Like I think Kamala was asked recently like what's our I forget the wording but you know, what's the most Dangerous nation that we face on the earth. If I was asked that question, I'd be like the Polish

The Italian immigrant the Polish the Irish the Italian immigrants who thinks he is white I think that really literally was JD Vance's answer recently I think he was doing old school ethnic white racism in front of the Irish he was bagging on the Irish in front of cops yeah that's a sound strategy

and back to the Atlantic Bag it on the Irish in front of cops. Yeah sound strategy And back to the Atlantic I have felt that my fellow citizens have made flawed judgments at certain times those moments left me disappointed But no choice they made was remotely inexplicable or morally indefensible This election is different the nominee for the Republican Party Donald Trump is squalid figure, and the squalor is not subtle. His vileness, his lawlessness, and his malevolence are undisguised. Okay, I think I get the description of Trump. You don't have to say squalid pretty much twice in two different word forms. I get it, brother. At this point, it is reasonable to conclude that those qualities are a central part of Trump's appeal to many of the roughly 75 million people who will vote for him In three weeks they revel in his vices. They are vivified by them Trump may lose like glasses

Do what Tom what are his vices? Yeah, does he smoke a drink or something? Hatred of democracy is it like smoking a cig like. It's like smoking a cig. Like, if you just get on chances. He's famous for sober, you know? Instead of like a no-smoking side, it's like a free pro-democracy side instead. Trump may lose the election, and by that loss, America may escape the horrifying fate of another term. But we have to acknowledge this, too. The man whom the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

called fascist to the core and the most dangerous person to this country is in a razor thin contest against Kamala Harris, a woman who, whether you agree with her or not, is well within the boundaries of American politics. If he loses, he will not concede. Trump will instead attempt to tear the country apart. Okay, this gets at something like I found very interesting. If he loses and

won't concede then why even vote in the first place? You know what I'm saying? Like yes. Right right right right. If you don't, I mean the whole thing is like you know the sanctity of our elections but if it's so fragile you know why do you have so much faith in it? You know what I mean? Here's something that kind of bugs me here okay so I mean of course we've probably been a little Sensationalist with you know the polling or whatever concerning all this right? I mean that's been called out to us like y'all or whatever but like if the if if

Drawing to his position on some key issues is Drawing to his position on some key issues is causing this sort of narrowing of the margin and the polls. Yeah. Like that's where you're getting into some dangerous territory because you're within a range of like letting him do what he wants to do and that is like challenge the legitimacy of the election and all that kind of stuff. So it's almost like if you know that and you know that you need as much daylight as possible between you and him, right? You think you would just stay the course with the shit you

were doing three months ago with their weird Tim Walz America's that all that kind of shit. You know what I mean? You don't need the Cheney's really. You don't even need this this piece. I was when you're reading it, I was thinking who's this for? Like everyone who would ever encounter a piece on the Atlantic absolutely agrees already that Trump is unfit for office and believes in like, you know, basic shit, like you should vote. Yeah, like, yeah, you're so right. Like who is this for?

You know, because I mean, also to, I don't know, man, it just feels like elections are increasingly just like I've said this before, it's just kind of a reaffirmation of a moral position, rather than actually voting for an individual who you think will improve your life and the lives of your community and possibly the entire country. It's more now, it's like conspicuous consumerism, right? I buy this brand of deodorant over this one, which makes me a better person, you know?

Yeah, and I, go ahead, Ben. It's very funny because Kamala is Sliding closer and closer to just basically having all of Trump's positions on everything. Everything is drill baby drill the border Let's let's nuke Iran before they can nuke Israel So it becomes only about Trump's character. It has to only be about personal capability. Is she a good person versus Trump being uniquely a bad person? Because it's the same policies. It's the same party. Like it is the future of the Republican Party. What's the branding of the Republican Party? Is it branded as the Democrats or is it branded as the GOP? That's all that's on the table.

She should start doing Trump's mannerisms and speech patterns. We're bringing abortion back. They say I'm the politics adjoint. I don't know if that's true, but that's what they say. It's a politics adjoint. Well, I mean, it's just the way that the liberals, the Democrats, they always end up chasing the right. Like when you adopt your enemies or oppositions framing, then you've already lost. We were all lost at that point. This is what was, I'm, I know like,

I'm pretty, you know, seasoned in politics. Getting pretty up in my years. Been on the left for a long time. And I was so baffled by the country over party thing because something about it just didn't compute. It was like I was reading a campaign slogan from like a different planet. I was like, wait, because if you were, this is what gets into the weirdness of this article, if he loses he will not concede.

It's like, if you were serious about that, why would you try to recuperate country? Because basically you're recuperating the same institutions that would allow him to steal it. So like, why not run, this isn't even a left position. You could literally just run on a reform platform. We're gonna do away with the Electoral College. We're gonna reform some of these judiciary things that make it impossible for people like Trump

to steal elections. Like you could run on that platform and that in itself would be inspiring enough. But by doing the country over party thing, you're basically advocating for the same institutions that would allow him to steal it. So it does, that's why I'm saying it just doesn't make sense. Oh, I viewed that.

I viewed that as what we're going to have when Trump wins. It's the, we're going to have the country over party. Right. Exactly. Everybody come on down. It's the country over party. We got the Cheney's, it's an open bar. Just one last, we're going to be

stacking some people into a pyramid and like, you know, doing some torture at the last minute just before we wrap everything up. And then it's, you know, as a treat. The bar closes at two and then, you know, we're done. Well and like he, from, I'm not that I'm an anarchist, but his plea of like, oh, this Trump threatens to destroy the system and Kamala is the one thing we can do to maintain the system. Isn't that a total endorsement of like an accelerationist or an anarchist position as well? Like, okay, let's just do it. Country over party. Let's

do it. Let's vote Trump. Let's blow this whole thing up. I hate it. It doesn't work for me. Right, right. To your point too, Terrence, I was just thinking, you know, it's like the people who already, not to say that liberals or Democrats aren't hyper nationalistic or jingoistic or anything They are but the people who already think that you're destroying the country. Why are you trying to appeal to them, right? You know what I mean? Well, they hate the country. Everybody hates the country by the way, which right right? Everybody hates America that is Well, this is the thing I hate about very competitive. Well, this is the thing I hate about about this, this the framing of Republicans and centrists who are very anti Trump and a lot of Democrats

and liberals who think this will be the end of the country, which is they're the ones saying it's the end of the country, fascism is going to happen if if he wins to the point where you know random people are going to be put in concentration camps just for being holding liberal positions. So it's super important to win. It's basically the most important thing happening on earth. But doing, pulling back from supporting Israel, doing populist positions, where did the Biden campaign, the Biden presidency go on abolishing student debt?

Why isn't Kamala out there hammering on this type of stuff instead of saying if Republicans wanted to show they were tough on the border, vote for the bill? You got waltz out there even trumpeting Cheney. It feels insane. Like Cheney actually used to be the one guy, Chene Cheney actually used to be the one guy Cheney and bushes used to be the one guy that Liberals would agree are like persona non grata evil war criminals So you got Bernie and Cheney holding hands on a bus going through But it's like you know that about put me down man

I just feel like club a chart that club a chart tweet was and said the comment was insane I just feel like if Klobuchar tweet was insane. The comment was insane man. I just feel like if Trump does win and people throw up their hands and go this is the end of democracy, we're not going to have any more elections, there's going to be zero introspection about what happened, zero ability to say oh man, Kamala could have done this, she could have done this to appeal to more people, and it's going to just be blame. Yes. That's my literary interpretation of our own book. When I turn to our book to tell the future, there's an interpretation of our book that the left wing of the election we have in our in vote harder. Yeah. Sort of sabotages the centrist candidate.

Very, very acutely sabotages her. And that's what I think is actually going to happen at this point, because we we accidentally predicted a lot of this election, a lot of the news cycles. So I honestly think what's going to happen is that Trump will win. I'm going down on I'm going on record. Going on record. Everyone can humiliate me on on X the everything app after this. That the Trump will win. There will be no introspection. And there will be basically interparty pogroms against the left within the Democrats. And they will go even further to the right. Yeah, to find their own Trump. They will get a guy with the hair to run next time.

And then maybe like in the book next time maybe they just won't hold elections. They'll be like this is actually a bad idea you know. Yeah this sucks. And we're fusing it to the country over party. You could get a Trump. Yeah. And somehow out of the maelstrom as Terrence has predicted JD Vance becomes president. I think that's entirely possible.

I don't think that's unreasonable actually. I think, so there's, I follow a lot of dum-dums on X the Everything app, Home of Free Speech. And there's this one guy nerds for humanity, he's like an Andrew Yang holdover. Who's trying to have like a podcast. Of course a name with nerds for humanity he would be an Andrew Yang guy. And so he he's like hardcore kamala kamala kamala I hate Trump I hate Trump I hate Trump but then during the VP debate his tone changed of like Vance is looking real good right now V Vance looking real smart. Vance, great answer.

Like there is a constituency for Vance amongst the dummies who just want a polite fascist. I mean, that's to I'll say something, I guess, maybe that's sort of in defense of Democrats moving to the right, which is I'm not naive. that's sort of in defense of Democrats moving to the right, which is, I'm not naive, I know that the country is not filled with leftists, right? That are clamoring for more leftist positions. Well, my seat is full of them. Yeah. So, so the, the Democrats are always trying to get, you know, swing voters and swing states, centrist and Republicans to vote for them. That's what they're trying to do. They're trying to win Michigan and Pennsylvania right now. But there are a lot of people whose politics is really just the last thing that they heard, right? It's like Joe Rogan or like, Joe Rogan's like that, right? Like, yeah, he can have like a neo-Nazi on and a progressive and then talk to Bernie Sanders. And he's just like, oh, yeah, like you like when he's talking to him He's like you make total sense. He's like a sponge basically He just absorbs information like a lot of people are like that because they don't have political principles They don't really have like a political school of thought they adhere to they just the last thing that they hear that sounded good Is kind of what they go with for that day and that's those are the people who will probably decide the election

the swing voters in the swing districts of the swing states in like mainly Pennsylvania and Michigan and You know a few other places Yeah, I think the um the thing about the Klobuchar quote this is just a side note about Bernie Imagine Bernie and Shani hand-in-hand like going tour town to town The funniest thing about that was that she said it's and it's brat fall and it's like dude It's fucking October like you guys are fucking still on the brat thing

Like this is like to me like yeah, the Bernie Cheney thing. That's not moving votes. No, that is, it just reveals a level of disconnectedness and I don't know. That's the kind of stuff that gives me pause. I hope Bernie's enjoying his second home. It's the type of thing that when, if they lose, we say, oh, what were you doing to win over dummies in Pennsylvania? And then it's like, oh, well they were posting, it's Bratfall on Twitter.

And you're like, no. It's the same level of like, we're just chilling in Cedar Rapids. It's the same thing. It's like Hillary Dabbing and having hot sauce. Pokemon, go to the polls. Or I saw Kamala at this event. I guess it was like a town hall for Hispanic voters.

And I mean, I don't know. Somebody just brought this up. But she was asking this person who was speaking. I don't know where they were from. But she was like, is your family OK? Almost with an accent, almost like a Hispanic person speaking. It's your, how do you say, familiar? Yeah, yeah, it just reminded me of the hot sauce

in the back thing. Like Hilaria Baldwin. It just reminded me of the hot sauce in the back thing where you're just, you don't really have any positions and I'm not sure you're actually a real person. And you seem to be like, I don't know what the character is, but one of these characters in X-Men who can look at people or objects and adopt the physical appearances

and shit like that, you know what I mean? And I think that that might be part. That's called a politician. Yeah, that's called a politician. A strange new mutant. I think that's one of the structural needs for this reification of race in America, right? Is so that the politician doesn't need to offer you

anything but just can reflect back to you your racial identity, your cultural micro group. And the Democrats love that because they are the party of micro identities, they're the party of cultural consultants, they're the party that is really good at navigating these cultural aspects. And the Republicans are basically just like, are the party of like white subgroups. Like how do the Polish like it? We got the Irish. We got the Polish. We got Hungarians.

We got German names up and down. Before we get too far away from Brad Fahl, has anybody asked Bernie on the record what he thinks about being in a coalition with Dick Cheney? I think he's ready to kiss himself. Me and Tom were talking about this the other night. Imagine if, even if you're Tim Walz, imagine if you're a guy like Bernie or Tim Walz

and you have made your entire career out of pushing progressive policies Like do they really have your soul like locked away in some fucking like, you know time cube box somewhere like this Are you really that prepared like your entire legacy is just gone out the window in an instant. That is crazy I feel like like Bernie is instant. That is crazy. I feel like like Bernie is willing to do the stuff that that Democrats say we should all

do. It's like get on board. We have to win. And Sanders is like, okay, like I strategically agree with winning, and I'm going to debase myself to do it. He gains nothing from it whatsoever. We'll never, we'll never be, we'll never be thanked. And if

Democrats lose, they'll blame the left for not for not coming out and everybody holding Dick Cheney's hand. Well, if the gun pointed at you is that like, you're gonna be a wrecker and you're gonna give us Trump, which Bernie's played that a number of times, whether fair or not, right? Why now kowtow to that when there's this huge rightward shift in the mainstream party?

It just seems like a weird misstep on his part. Very bizarre. Just even from a personal level, like I assume if you're a politician you're ambitious. Like, if you're ambitious in the way that he has been, I just cannot imagine that you would just like go quietly into that good night. Like, all right, I'm just going to fucking nuke my entire legacy just with one. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's so bizarre. There's also relationships, right? Like one of the pernicious ways that I think the Democratic Party has disciplined its discipline, the politicians that are its constituents, like AOC, like Bernie,

these left sided characters within the party is saddling them up with nominally friendly consultant class people, making sure you get in front of them. Like you like people that you know. You go along with the people that you know and they're they're in the swamp. They're in this machine and they have no momentum. They can either blow the whole thing up which only seems to have a downside for them or they can be sit in the cock chair of democracy. This is something that you had said Terrence too but bringing out Waltz was sort of like like Bernie light you know like family dollar Bernie basically you know what I mean they were like they're like oh we need the Bernie

suit but we don't actually need Bernie yeah we got Bernie at home exactly it's It's a truly bizarre thing. It's, um, he's at Walt's only has one house. Remember the retirement assets only teachers pinch liberals got really liberals who didn't like Bernie Sanders got really psycho about like, you know, he's got a second. I don't think it had running water. It's like a cabin in the woods. It was like a road cap. It was like a Walden pond cap.

It looked like a bug out. As far as politicians go, I think Bernie Sanders has made one of the lowest amounts of money of all of sitting senators. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say that's probably true. Well, just getting back to this Atlantic article,

where there's not much left, but this should leave the rest of us shaken. Not because America, despite being an exceptional nation, has never been perfect or close to perfect. Americans have experienced segregation, slavery, Trail of Tears, internment of Japanese Americans, McCarthyism, Mealy, Johnson-Reed Act, blah, blah, blah of Tears, Intermittent Japanese Americans, McCarthyism, Mealy, Johnson-Reed Act, blah blah blah.

I was fine with all that. I just have to interject that when you say Americans, that's true, but not everybody experienced those things. I just have to point that out. I'm sorry. Some of us were on the business end of it. Some of us were doling out that's living brother But what makes this moment different and unusually dangerous is that we have never before had a president who is sociopathic who relishes cruelty and encourages political violence who refers to his political opponents as vermin Literally Nixon did all these things Nixon

Literally Nixon did all these things. Nixon was a straight psycho. You know what, Tom, you brought this up. The first president, George Washington, you know what I'm saying? He made his debtors were made from slave's teeth, you know what I'm saying? He raised Iroquois villages. He fucking burned women and children. His nickname was the town destroyer. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm looking up this Theodore Roosevelt quote he says I don't go so far as to think the only good Indians are dead Indians but I believe

nine out of every ten are and on the tenth we shouldn't inquire too closely Jesus right come on man but you know hey the first sociopathic president could be elected here. I guess that's really the basis of their, this is why America is clearly going through a political crisis of a sense, because its ruling class has determined that the aesthetic presentation of Trump is, I guess it's too messy it's too loud too

grotesque grotesque because you're right like as we've identified they all basically believe in the same things but like is the difference here really just that like Trump is an outward obvious public sociopath as opposed to like someone who keeps it under wraps kind of like HW Bush or George Bush you know what I mean it's right right I think that there is a certain aspect of it that he isn't blooded in to the national security system. I think that is a part of it too, for sure, yeah. He is skeptical of letting the FBI, the CIA, the NSA,

he is skeptical of letting those guys just have free reign and he wants to have his finger on what they're doing because he's a control freak, he's a micromanager. I think that they are doing a full court press against him because he is gonna fuck up their bag and he doesn't want them to fuck up their bag. Well, this is another huge strategic error of Kamala which is making every person in the ruling elite on her ticket

like basically make it she's making it look like everybody in the elite hates Trump and wants to stop him which they do but that does not mean down vote for him right that's exactly the point I'm making it's like that makes it look like he is a victimized like you know tribune of the people and it he's a rabble-raser outside exactly and it's he he's able to maintain that he is able to maintain that like outsider aura which is really frustrating because he's like a caricature of like a Wall Street guy like in the 80s they were doing parodies of like oh this Trump would like it's the natural progression that Trump will become

President like this is a Yeah, yeah, we were fated to experience this I mean, this is the guy who like, you know, everything is gilded and everything is golden You know what I mean? But apparently, you know Also, he speaks about like low water pressure and toilets and shit like that like normal people things quote normal people Yeah, it's the wettest it's ever been from your perspective Think about it every day If Donald Trump wins the election those of us who grew up loving America won't stop loving her

But it will be a love tinge with profound disappointment and concern almost to the point of disbelief it is welcome So just love. Welcome to being on the left. That's right. You know, I mean, I think that's the difference is like for these people, they profoundly respect America's institutions and hold this concept of democracy and everything

high in their minds. Whereas people on the left, I think, have had that all washed away. And so that Trump does represent this threat to that, that like a John McCain or a Mitt Romney right does does not present. I just think it's really funny that like people over the age of like 35 are like adopting like the views, not the views, not the general views, but just the general position that America's not all it always cracked up to be when I Was like 12 or no and I was like no not 12 when I was like maybe 16 probably or 17

You know, I just mind that hilarious man. Very sad Yeah, all I had to do was listen to like rage against the machine when I was 10 I was like I was like hell. Yeah, I don't know what half this shit is But it sounds bad. I mean, change is too pocky, don't it be? Like, I was just like, yeah, man. He's spittin' facts. He don't wanna feed the poor. So true.

I'll just close up here. It is quite another, given all we know, for him to represent as president the soul of his country, it would be an act of self-destruction, desecration, I'm sorry, an act of self-desecration for him to represent as president the soul of his country it would be an act of self-destruction desecration I'm sorry an act of self-destruction for him to win so cringe Come yeah pretty good. We don't want to desecrate a corpse. No, you're not one to do that. That's Well, I think that's the conservative case for Kamala There's one other thing I wanted to read. I'm not gonna read this thing.

I just wanna skim through it real fast because like I said, it is in line with your book. This is also in the Atlantic from Ann Applebaum. Yeah. You can hear the groans of pain. Just saying her name. The danger is greater than in 2020. Be prepared, a citizen's guide to defending the 2024 election

So this literally sounds like it's from you guys's book. Like it sounds like one of those interstitial kind of panels between chapters Oh, that's why I picked it. It's literally one of the interstitial interstitial panels from your book These are an Applebaum's tips for defending democracy in 2024. Help out on voting day in person. First and foremost, register to vote and make sure everyone you know has done so. After that, vote in person if you can. Drive old people to the polls, blah, blah, blah. Join something now.

That's another tip. Talk with- Don't't not a socialist organization Homeowners homeowners, right? Join your local the lines club, you know Maybe the Rotary Club. Yeah You can join the Brennan justice Center for Justice. I don't know how you do that. I guess you just go Be a poll watcher. I think they're encouraging people to go be a poll watcher. I'm gonna do that, we should do that, but remember when they were paranoid

that Black Panthers were gonna do that in 2012? We should do that at polls, be like, no, we're actually vote watching. Just, we're listening. Podcasters, even worse. I'm gonna stand at the polls and discourage people from voting. I'm gonna stand at the polls and discourage people from voting I'm gonna turn them away like don't do it. There's nothing good in there

Put the ballot down Away from the ballot Another tip talk with people talk with people about what? with people talk with people about what I like anything sir how's the weather you like how would the jets do it I'm here to vote not talk please get your keep their politics away from my election yeah don't inadvertently undermine democracy emphasize the strength of the American people our ability to stand up to those who assault democracy suppose you don't believe in the resolve of the American people though And finally as a last resort only as a last resort

protest Dude, I love I love except for protests. I love how all the others, because what was it? What was the title of this Terrence? Was it tips to what, protect democracy or something like that? Yeah, a citizen's guide to defending the 2024 election. Okay, defending the 2024 election. So I guess it's not democracy or civic engagement writ large, but I love how all of it is just

like, like, again, they're all kind of aesthetic choices or in it like in this sort of like all you can do is like your Your participation stops at the ballot box. That's it besides protesting It's like a company trying to like cut its overhead by like, you know Making sure you've you've you've done steps one through eight before you get to talk to a human being and the customer service department Before you do that have you unplugged your router? You know, was there a storm recently? one through eight before you get to talk to a human being in the customer service department. Before you do that, have you unplugged your router? Was there a storm recently? Da da da da.

It gets at something that your book gets at, which is that in a world where voting is basically the last mechanism of registering any bit of your own dissent or anger at the system, all you can do is just vote harder. And what that means is basically the inner violence you feel from just only being able to vote and vote harder starts bursting out literally at the seams. It starts tearing away at the seams itself. That's a good description. I also liked how you started it with like the movie trailer thing in a world

Become nothing more than a valve to let out your men frustration Two cops Well, that's a good we're at an hour so I think that's a good place to wrap it up, but it's also a good place for you guys to You know plug your book. I wanted to you know you talk to you all about About this comic and and you know I mean I think we've thoroughly exercised many of the demons that you're working at towards that you're working towards in your book But um yeah, if you just wanted to like plug it where people could find it You know the target demographic audience of who you think might like it

the pole I so just as warriors is is sort of like a it's it's Robo cop meets Judge Dredd meets the Simpsons that's that's a not to cut you off then but I was exactly what I was thinking I was thinking of 2000 AD, which are kind of leftish and very critical of British culture and politics, and that's really what it reminded me of. Yeah, we're trying to do America's version of 2000 AD comics, but with a bunch of Homer Simpson in there too. And the comics follow two characters, Officer Shit and Officer Swamp Cop. And Officer Shit is a anthropomorphic pile of shit, and Officer Swamp Cop is sort of like a fish thing.

And it's in this future city, Bubble City, which is this mega rich enclave that everyone is equal, there's prosperity for everyone. The only problem is there's this massive slum that goes to the horizon that's popped up outside called the Uninhabited Zone, which is densely densely populated by disgusting stupid mutants. There's even Polish people in there.

There's Foszkanskis, there's all of us. There's a giraffe apparently. There's a giraffe. The census form for the uninhabited zone is absolutely insane. You got ugly. You got Polish. It's like if you ever seen them load the new the new receipt paper into the machine. It's a big rule like that.

You got to roll it out. Giraffe person. Chinese giraffe, giraffe in parentheses, non-white. Yeah, so the book is, the series are installments of sort of like buddy cop action films between swamp cop and shit, and they usually go on a themed adventure.

And the theme of our second volume is elections. So it's vote harder and we do it in the style of a sort of a 70s political thriller, an election thriller. And we go in the in and outs of like, what is an election in the narrative, like a contest between factions within the elite. And we look at all these different parts

of our crazy society we've made. And you might notice if you read the book some similarities between this crazy society we've made and our own day-to-day world. Yes there's a couple of assassination attempts and I think you know it's not it's not definitely not explicitly about Trump or Kamala or Biden or anything like that But I think whoever wins it'll probably feel prescient I know we're leaving but can I ask you guys a question on because I was thinking about this Um, and maybe this is sort of Maybe this is an issue that like we have as commentators on the left

But have you ever felt that as you were writing this, as you were developing it, that it being satire, that it was maybe difficult to parody certain things because the real world is just as insane as what's happening in your book? Or were there things that after you had gotten past a certain stage of development that you were like, shit, well, maybe it's too late to include this, I can't believe that happened. Well a lot of the, like, the book seems, like it seems ripped from the headlines, but we wrote it almost a year before many of the things that happened in the book happened. And something that Matt and I do, and I have, like I have a whole shtick

that I'm developing that like only science fiction can do political commentary now. That you have to go to the end. You have to think of the end of this system. You have to think to the end of how things are going to have sort of a critical analysis. And that involves technology. That involves politics. That involves... The deformed mutants that we're all gonna be. Yeah, the reification of racial groups. It involves all these things and liberal art,

which is what we're sort of, what we settle for and what we're stuck with is incapable of incorporating a lot of these things as real. of incorporating a lot of these things as real. Liberal art doesn't incorporate technological pessimism. It can only be positive. Racial pessimism cannot be incorporated. There's so many things that we're not allowed to incorporate and by doing, by making the dumbest comic book

in the entire world, because it is coded like Futurama, it's coded like South Park, it's coded like a stupid adolescent comic book. We're able to go somewhere I think which is pretty unique, the place that we've been able to get to. But it's so dumb, it's smart. No, no, this is completely true because I was like, man, yo, that's so stupid, but that's so dumb. It's smart. No, no This is completely true because I was like that's so stupid, but that's so good also to just Well just philosophically we see very little difference between the smart and the dumb in fact

We we think the lines are blurred and we embrace can't think your way out. That's a thing that I keep Close to my heart. That's true, that's true. Well I think that probably about sums it up. We'll put a link in the show notes for anybody wanting to check it out. I'm sure both of you are on X the Everything app. The home of free speech, yeah. The home of free speech. So please go follow Matt and Ben on there as well. Thanks a lot gentlemen.

We would love to have you back on again. Yeah, no, I really appreciate you having us on. No, this was a riot. No, thank you guys, appreciate it. Yeah, well, we'll see how the election goes. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. Maybe, maybe I won't ruin,

maybe I won't ruin the book for anyone. We can check in, we can check in. If you guys are in camps, I'm still willing to pod from if you're in the camps. If we're in Guantanamo exactly. Yeah, well, Cinder takes out with carrier pigeons. I'll read everyone's parts from Canada onto his record. Yeah.

You can support our show on Patreon. We've referenced it a number of times throughout this episode, but we would all encourage you to please go check us out on Patreon, that's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash Trillbilly Workers Party, the link is in the show notes. So thank you all for joining us. We'll see you next time. Until then, have a great week.

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