Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 320: Further Away From The Light

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Recorded 12/6/23 — We talk about the COP28 climate summit, Biden's recent statements at a fundraising event in Massachusetts, Thomas Müntzer's theory of dreams and visions, the imploding brains at the State Department, and more Support our program on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

um kind of got buried in all the opinions after henry kissinger's that henry kissinger died but in the new york times bill gates had a guest essay that said that the title was how i invest my money in a warming world and it's about the cop 28 which i believe we talked about on the Patreon on Sunday. But it has this paragraph. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I'll just read this paragraph. Very wealthy individuals should also be making changes to their lifestyles to bring their emissions close to zero. If you fly in a private jet, as I do, you can afford the extra cost of sustainable aviation fuel made from low-carbon crops and waste. You'll not only lower your own emissions, you'll also help drive demand for clean fuel,

which will increase the supply and eventually make it cheap enough to be used more widely in commercial aircraft. That will be a game-changer for reducing emissions. Is it like when you have like a hippie friend who like converts their truck and to be able to run on like crisco is that what he's talking about yeah yeah i think yeah this is the plutocratic version of this is like uh how you be crusty worth uh seven billion dollars yeah like have a friend that like um does goes dumpster diving on the grease traps behind like mexican restaurants and that's how they fuel their truck with like vegetable yeah and it's like you want to say to him brian you just sold your house in ashville

north carolina for two million dollars that you bought for $20,000. You don't have to live this way anymore. But I appreciate Bill Gates' thinking of the common man for all of those with a private jet. I know, right? I love his admonition to fellow people with means. Hello, fellow people with means. Hello, fellow people with means. Is that what they like to be called now? Well, he calls them something in this article.

Is Billionaire a slur? Just don't call them broke. It's high net worth people. That's what he calls them. High net worth people. A tithe network? No, high net worth. Sorry, I'm congesting. Oh, a high net worth. High net worth people. A tithe network? No, high net worth. Sorry, I'm congesting.

Oh, a high network. High net worth. Okay. A high net worth. Okay. Too many syllables, man. Net worth. That means you have a lot of assets, I guess.

Yeah. You have a lot of capital. You have a lot of slaves is guess yeah yeah you have a lot of capital you have a lot of uh a lot of uh you have a lot of slaves is pretty much what it is let's call it what it is you may own some human beings off the books still you may not even know about it yeah you may be so rich you don't even know that you... Oh, man. So what other...

Does Bill have any more tips besides sustainable aviation? It's just stuff like... It basically spends three paragraphs saying, like, we're not doomed. High net worth people can get us out of this. They can. I mean, it should be on them. It should be on them. I mean, it's the thing.

It's like I saw an article that said, let me see if I can find it real fast. It was an article about the COP28 climate summit. The Convention of Losers and Defeatists? Yes. for basically being like a convention for helping the United Arab Emirates get more oil and gas contracts. It was a who's who for oil tyrants is what it was. Yes. And so there was this article that came out yesterday by Nina Lakhani in The Guardian. It says, record number of fossil fuel lobbyists get access to cop 28 climate talks one in every 30 people at this heavily policed shindig is lobbying for oil and gas oh boy i like

it's just dude i mean it is just crazy how in uh again there's probably all kinds of things that account for this, but it is so wild how every single thing, every symbol, signifier, word, has come to mean the exact opposite. So climate talks now mean, how can I score more oil and gas contracts? I mean, it's like taking capture to like its ultimate kind of conclusion or just the idea that you know it's it's capital and the ruling class that dictate like you know political economy and decisions that are made about that in fact everyone but it's just like

it's just so ridiculous where it's like i mean i'm thinking of like if you if you had a fire you know and your house is on fire you would call an arsonist instead of a fireman, you know. Somebody who's just going to throw more gasoline on you, you know what I mean? And sit there and watch it burn. It does seem like this is the case for everything, though. Like whenever you hear someone say like humanitarian pause or humanitarian concerns, usually they mean the exact opposite they're talking about more time to kill more people yes yeah yeah yeah like every it's like how can i just continue to run roughshod but more palatably exactly you could pretty much set your watch

by it that every time you hear something just invert, and that'll be the thing it's actually saying. okay all right i have a i have a thought experiment for you guys uh this is um we're coming up with new frontiers and like how to think about the world we're coming up with new frontiers in how to think about the world. We're coming up with new frontiers in how to situate ourselves in the stream of history here. So we've got a thought experiment from Yair Walak. Had 900 white South African civilians been killed in a single attack in the mid-1980s, the global far left would have shrugged and said, What did you expect? Apartheid would have never been dismantled through peaceful means, if at all.

I don't really know what the thought experiment here is. There's not a question. Yeah, like, what is he trying to say? That, like, the perpetrators of that would be in the wrong? You know what I mean? Like, I don't understand, like, what is his point? Well, I think what I'm starting to... Does he want me to imagine white genocide?

Is that the thought experiment? Because I do that every day. You know, I already like... I'm on that tip all the time. I don't know... It's something that we teased out on the episode on Sunday, the Patreon episode, but, like, something that's becomingased out on the episode on sunday the patreon episode but like something that's becoming more and more clear to me in the last two months is that the deep

abiding anxiety beneath a lot of this stuff particularly on the left liberal wing of the commentator the commentariat the punditry whatever is a is a growing distaste for an uncomfortableness with the left because that's the thing that's what's what undergirds this entire thought experiment it's it's not it's not even like any remorse or sorrow over the hypothetical 900 white south african. It's the fact that the left would look at it and shrug and say, well, what did you expect? And that's kind of what I've realized about October 7th. In the minds of the vast majority of people, the people that were either killed, kidnapped, or injured or whatever on October 7th are completely incidental.

They're just completely irrelevant, really, to the larger equation. They're collateral. They're collateral. Like to Netanyahu and everybody else, they're just an excuse to do ethnic cleansing and genocide. liberal commentariat they're an excuse to you know badger you know to to to batten down the left and make sure that their unwashed like uncredentialed opinions aren't allowed to just give you know have free reign and it's home it's home policing essentially is what it is i don't i just yeah just just to put a fine point on it like a lot of these people on the left liberals into the spectrum anyways, like Levitz and et al. But even more people on the Jackman left and stuff, which I don't even know what that means anymore.

I'm sorry for even using that term. But they find it absolutely distasteful. distasteful they cannot countenance the idea that human beings such as ourself would come to a moral position on something without having all the facts in the and and correct intellectually gathered credentialed opinions on something in the hallowed halls of universities or through books and everything else even though a lot of us read, they don't see that as a legitimate way to come to an opinion on this. And that's why our opinions have to be policed on this at every step of the way.

We can't just look at it and say, no, this is clearly wrong, whatever. Yeah. Because we're... Go ahead, Terrence, go ahead. I was just going to say, what I'm saying here is the people on October 7th are irrelevant to the... No one actually cares about any of those people it's more about like i guess for them

it's about crafting a narrative and making sure that that narrative is maintained you know and making sure that the left can't actually have a fully thought out like theory theoretical formula and praxis on it yeah or or even to to say, you know, that we are like, you know, we're these unwashed rubes, you know, and as you said, like well read, sure. But like, even if you're not, it's just like this gut feeling morally that this is like repugnant, you know? Yeah. And the idea that these unwashed masses would have the moral fortitude

to stand up against ethnic cleansing, you know? Yeah. Well, another part of it, too, is that the left believes in retribution for evildoers, you know what I mean? In their minds? Or, like, you mean, like... No, like, we believe that, like, if you carry out a genocide, you should reasonably be punished for that.

Yeah. Whereas the liberals think that you should just go to tennis jail and that you should occasionally make appearances on cnn you should have like a uh an evening talk radio circuit deal that you're doing uh-huh yeah you should be able to watch contrast you should be able to like sit and watch like judge judy or judge mathis you know with like an ankle monitor at the very most. Right, yeah. Whereas we believe you should be tied to a horse and we slap it on its ass. Draw it and court it. Draw it and court it, possibly,

depending upon the scale of the crimes, etc. Maybe put you in a tent shell and send you to Mars or some shit like that. They think that because we think something bad should happen to somebody that slaughtered 20,000 people that we're actually the violent asshole. Well, and that our opinion can't be valid because we did not gain it in the correct avenues of credentialization and legitimation. Yeah, if we believe that, if we went to the Harvard Kennedy School and believed that, we would just be liberals.

the harvard kennedy school and believe that we would just be liberals right and then and then they would allow us to say it on their podcast and then they wouldn't like be smug and condescending about it online like the left the left's moral compass is broken or or even people that are ostensibly on our sort of end of the spectrum but still get on there and say stuff like oh you know the the left's uh approach to this is is very blinkered and parochial like they're applying american standards of xyz to this conflict they they they think especially when it comes to race right that's what that's especially one thing when they say race sorry to cut you off but like we're applying a rate of american racial uh context to this you know yeah yeah. It's just interesting.

I think that, like, you know, did y'all see that clip going around on that website Ynet about it was one of the family members of the people kidnapped on October 7th? And she was, I guess there was some sort of like town hall or something a town hall okay i mean so they could so i don't mean to be morbid but i guess they could speak publicly about their experience it just made it sound like this is jerry springer for like a situation like what is this? What are we talking about here? Yeah. It was, ostensibly, it was, there were, like, Likud party members at this event, and these family members of the hostages stood up and spoke out about the genocide, basically. the genocide basically and it was a very fascinating audio clip because you got you kind of get to see in real time this woman like realize that like a re in real time realization

she realizes like as she's talking about how disgusting it is that the israeli government has prioritized glassing the entire Gaza Strip over getting the hostages back. You see her realize in real time that the hostages don't mean fucking shit to the Israeli government. Just a rhetorical sort of, I don't know if cudgel is the right word. I always say cudgel, but I don't really know what it means. I have an image in my mind.

It looks kind of like a baton in my mind. Yeahon i'm thinking of a nightstick a police yeah yeah billy club flintstone era like club you know a caveman club yeah but um but nah man their cannon fodder is what it is yeah the hostage is a cannon fodder i think that like um it's an interesting thing like you know something that i guess i kind of undercounted this in the last two months but just how much that specter of the left is what is is a massively under underwriting anxiety in a lot of people's minds. And I've, like, just, you know, piecing together various things that I've seen and heard people say. Like, there's a lot of things that they're saying when they say the left but i do find it fascinating how this singular event created this sort of discursive space that the left quote-unquote was able to enter and that people became

immediately incredibly defensive about that space and yeah like this is our purview to like bomb children well i mean why why should you have opinion on this well how dare you yes and and not just that not just those people but also the people in the sort of liberal left who say no this is our job to call out the hypocrisies of the united states government and it's our job to put the moral burden of October 7th and the civilians of Gaza on our back. Like the fact that the left, the unwashed, like I said, uncredentialed masses would go out there and dare to have a position on this

is what really underrides a lot of the anxiety. And like I said, you can see it in that thought experiment. It's not like they care about any potential quote-unquote collateral damage civilians killed by the people they're oppressing like they don't give a fuck anything that gives them greater you know leeway anything that gives them greater carte blanche to go ahead and just you know like i said glass entire neighborhoods they don't care what really what they really care about is the left being able to see it and then accordingly have a correct moral position on it not even moral but materialist position on it well it's like we were talking about in the patreon right like they're haunted right like not just the sort of um uh you know uh right-wingers or liberals but left liberals too i think right they're haunted by the specter of communism and i don't even mean communism the

soviet union but just like an alternative way of being you know yeah yeah well i mean well it's it's not hard to imagine the people that pride themselves on, like, sort of scaling the high heights of Tony's society being against an egalitarian project of any consequence. Right. I mean, because then that levels the playing field, and the one thing that they've staked their pride in themselves on has sort of just been nullified, you know? Yeah. But not really.

I mean, like, you know, it's fine to be proud of your accomplishments or whatever, but it's like not fine to think that you're like, you know, the special boy with the only thing to say about it because you've, you know, put the time in or whatever. Right. We'll say these people invest in meritocracy so much so that like you're absolutely right, Tom, like any challenge, right, to their intellect, you know, or like any challenge right to their um um to their uh intellect you know or even any challenge to their so-called i guess moral compass you know like that's why that's what they're trying to do with the left right they're trying to recalibrate it's like when your google maps

or apple maps tells you to recalibrate your phone you have to do that figure eight shit to make it work that's what they try to do with the left right well they're trying to recalibrate our moral compass as if like you know we don't have one you know it's also a matter of aesthetics too you know i mean there's plenty of people uh smarter than i ever thought about being with conscience and heart and and love for people on the left that are like went to great schools too and are well credentialed i think it's a matter of how you you know it's like the scene in goodwill hunting you know where he's trying to embarrass him at the think it's a matter of how you, you know. It's like the scene in Good Will Hunting, you know, where he's trying to embarrass him at the bar.

It's like, are you that guy, you know what I mean, or are you, you know, Matt Damon swooping in there? Hopefully neither, because I feel like both of them are equally acceptable. You didn't like the Matt Damon character, you didn't. I've just been thinking about, like, I've been reading this book. I mentioned it on the Patreon, but it's called The Dreadful History and Judgment of God on Thomas Munzer by Andrew Drummond. Man, this must be hot fire.

Dude, it's pretty crazy. Like, one of the fascinating things about it is that Thomas Munzer, again, you can go back and check out the Patreon if you want a little more details on him. But, yeah, long story short, early short early german revolutionary in like the 16th century in the german reformation and he differed very much with luther but like one of their main points of uh contestation one of their main points of disagreement was over the idea of dreams and visions and like munzer was very much an advocate of dreams and visions as a method of deriving truths about the world and as a way of developing a revolutionary like praxis and the reason why was because this was again the thing you always hear about the

reformation is the printing press right like the the Reformation is the printing press, right? Like, the printing press is what spurred this spread of ideas. Like, Munzer had his own printing press, and he was printing his own, like, you know, missives, his diatribes, his shit, you know, like, getting it out there. But, like, for him, he advocated a moving away from the Bible and the scriptures because so many poor people didn't have access to that stuff. And so if you didn't have... Yeah, I guess there was a... Yeah, I guess the church was sort of an aristocratic sort of institution at a certain period. A lot of mass was held in Latin. Nobody spoke Latin. It's a dead language. Yeah, that's a good point. That is a good point. Huh. Imagine that, the church that would sell indulgences.

Yeah. Do their services in Latin. Might have had some, yeah. And I think that there's something to that. It's like, yes, we live in an era now where, yes, there's information anywhere. You can see, you know, Google it, Wikipedia it, YouTube, get on Twitter, find videos. Google it, Wikipedia it, YouTube, get on Twitter, find videos. However, at the same time, there are still lots of volumes of books and information and theory and stuff that's off limits to me. Just by way, and other people by way of finances.

Although, of course, obviously by this point, I've started to game the system and get free books from the publishers because of my disease podcast. Send us more books. send us more books send us more books you're right we'll say this whoever wrote this book is definitely got an open seat on the show um but like i guess the point i'm trying to make and the point that munter was trying to make was that like if you are cut off from this credentialization process and from these, from the literature and everything else, like, you basically have two options. You can, you know, operate on what you see right in front of you, but sometimes what you see right in front of you is occluded to you and you don't even know. So that leaves visions and dreams.

Revelations. Dreams and visions is the only kind of, um universal truth it's almost like um opening up a door to this world that we know is true you know yeah but but it's mystified and obscured by like you know uh social processes of this fake reality or this unreality that we live in you know what i mean yeah and just because it happens in your mind like when you're sleeping or or staring off into the distance or in a reverie or something doesn't make it any less real under the influence of drugs whatever um or fasting you know i'm i'm with moonstar on this one i've lost many friends over my um sort of controversial text about dream

interpretations that's source of contention with me and my friend group all the time so live your truth big moons i don't entirely mean it literally like in the sense that like you the the way that you develop like a correct theory and praxis on gaza and palestine and in the united states politics is what you see in your head when you go to sleep at night but like I mean in the more larger universal sense like the visions you get taking it back to 2020 the George Floyd uprising like the the symbol and image of fire and like how that's been with us since the very beginning and how like so much of our truths come from staring into fire you know what i'm saying like seeing the visions that come out of of staring staring into the

burning bush yeah yeah and like how that that is a way to arrive at truths about our universe that is just as valid as what you read in a book even though i obviously recommend people to learn more about history and theory and everything at the same time, that's just unrealistic to think that we all have access to all these materials at all times. And so, like, what, are you going to get online after something and after something like this happens and they just scold people into like, oh, you know, they the left's moral compass is broken because they dare have opinions on this that like they didn't glean from in a way this is the schism between me and will stancil i've seen i've seen the fire and this man never has also to terrence when you were talking about um sort of um dreams as a window into like truth i was thinking of a this short story by octavia Butler called The Book of Martha, where this God gives this black woman the power to remake the world, you know. And what she decides to do is she decides to give people such vivid dreams that will sort of, that are better than the reality in which they live, you know. Yeah.

that are better than the reality in which they live, you know? Yeah. But there's a caveat because if people can live out their greatest fantasies and their dreams, then they won't have the desire to create art anymore, you know? Right. And there's just like a kind of a dialectic there about dreams and art and like manifesting like the better world that we know to be true and like, you know, the caveats of that. But yeah, it just reminded me of that.

I just, I think this is important because I'm trying to just, as we, you know, get further into the election season. And as this. And further away from the light of God. And further away from the light of God. I like am interested in like exploring more and more ways that we differentiate ourselves and like finally issue that cut with the democratic party and with the like the liberals in every single way you know what i mean and nail that decree on like the wall on the door of the you know yes exactly and i mean it's just it's just this thing that like we have for so long been expecting this moment of fascism to arise right like ever since i

guess 2016 but i guess you could even probably go back further than that to like post 9-11 that's true we've been on fast watch since about 20 really truly about 2015 i mean this is this is the underlying premise of the most important election of our lifetimes you know yeah yeah the last three elections which have been you know consequently the most important elections of our lifetime and guess what i bet they're gonna say this one's gonna be i will say this i don't want to be flipping about that because there is there is a debate to be had you know i don't want to be you know i saw uh steve bannon and some dude talking about trump's plans for

his vigilante justice he wants to carry out and it it i won't be honest with you guys it does not sound like anything uh you'd want to be a party to or on the business end of no we're you know especially not the three of us no no no but but but here's the cat here's the crummy choices we get on the other side of it we support the party that uh unanimously almost unanimously passed a bill saying we were anti-sememites for being critical of Israel. So it's like, and that we could suffer consequences as a result of that. Whatever, whatever.

So this is, you know, if ever there was a between a rock and a hard place, this is it. Did you see the Biden, there's this article in the New Yorkork times biden says i'm not sure i'd be running if not for trump um oh my god president biden suggested on tuesday that

he might have been content to serve only a single term if his predecessor donald trump were not attempting to recapture the white house that should tell you a lot about like not just biden but the democratic party that they have no existence without opposition you know what i mean yeah that they have no they have no like they have no project besides we're not republicans listen we're a society that has no problem with putting somebody under the jail if they didn't pay some parking tickets like y'all mean to tell me you cannot bury this motherfucker like he's you need him you know let's be honest about it you

need him it's like it's like batman and the joker you know what i'm saying like they complete each other yeah i think that like it's okay i'm glad you guys brought this up because this is a theory i've kind of just been bouncing around in my head but like i think and and people have articulated this and if you kind of follow it down too far you kind of start getting into like green party Like, I think, and people have articulated this, and if you kind of follow it down too far, you kind of start getting into, like, Green Party, third-party territory, which is a dead end also. People's party.

Right, is also a dead end. But, like, I think that it's very, very difficult for Americans to conceptualize this, mostly because I don't really know if it's ever really happened in human history but like we could potentially be and I think historians might see it this way living at a sort of high point of democracy where you need okay when we generally think of like authoritarianism or strong, strong, muscular leadership. Strong, strong, muscular leadership.

Strong-ass, muscular, gluteus maximus dictatorship. Our beautiful boys in their beautiful uniforms. Yeah. Their beautiful pecs. We generally associate that with one person or one party. We generally associate that with one person or one party, but it's very difficult for us to associate that with two parties that ostensibly have differing antithetical aims. high capitalist democracy where that fascism we were expecting to arrive actually already arrived about 10 years ago

and it is that two party dynamic needing each other. It's sort of already woven itself in under our nose and by the time we can sort of call out some of the more explicit sort of demonstrations of it, we're like oh oh yeah yeah by the time like

people actually step back and analyze it they'll be doing it from like you know a bed in guantanamo bay you know right yeah what's i mean dude i was like i was kind of going down some really dark avenues the other night like like thinking about October 7th and about just the mystification of history and how it's this thing that is always sort of going to elude us in this way, like in the sense that a thing happens. You think you know what the thing is,

whether it's October 7th, 9-11, the assassination of JFK, November 22nd. The moon landing? Well, I'm not saying the assassination of JFK, you know, November 22nd. The moon landing? Well, I would say the moon landing. I mean, I would say that these events, what like Peter Del Scott would call like deep structural events that change the status quo. You see them and you think you know what happens. But the further out you get from it, the more and more occluded it gets to you the more mystified it gets to you right and so like you then wind up you find yourself trying to make

sense of it by applying your current circumstances and current consequences retroactively to the event itself so that like an event can never just be the thing. You're always going to be applying future consequences and present conditions into the past to kind of formulate the narrative of that event itself. So it's like. Metatextual is what it is. Yes. And referential, you know. Right. And that's, I don't know, that's kind of as a historian as someone like

deeply fascinated with history it's like that's so kind of terrifying in a way because like yes you see the zeppruder film you see jfk get his dome just fucking blown off and you're like well this is fat ass running to her body seems straightforward, but then you're like, oh my God, this is so pregnant with meaning. There are these deep waves going on underneath the surface here that we can really only tell what they were based on what happened as a result of them. Right, so you zoom out and you start seeing, for example,

two gunmen, and then... Right. Yo, that out and you start seeing, for example, two gunmen and then. Right. You know, that's actually really terrifying because like, I mean, the way that we make decisions and when I say we, I'm talking about human beings. Right. Is like through our perception of time. Right. Based on past events. Right. Based on current events, based on what we predict may happen in the future you know and like you know they say that like um what's that phrase is that um um those who don't learn history will be doomed to repeat it you know but like and i'm not saying that there aren't some universal truths about history right that are undergirded especially by like the particularly like particular ideology that i subscribe to or believe in or you know

partial to but like you know it's especially in a world where like there's so many competing sources of information you know and we do live in the e-crisis like i mean forming an opinion on anything right and any sort of like projecting into the future is almost like it's almost like paralyzing to do so right yeah to put all of these events or even to again you're saying to analyze and talk about something after the fact has happened i mean following something in real time is one thing but like re-litigating something that happened which was just a couple i mean it was a month ago but it feels like longer than that even you know right i don't know if i'm making any sense but it also feels like this sort of um um

this sort of telescoping. Space and time itself starts feeling weird and strange. Yeah, I'm the same way. I'm like, this was two months ago. Now, I've been feeling weird about that. It's almost like, depending upon the meaning of these structural events that Terrence was talking about, can make it actually literally feel, time feel different. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. In a way. It's almost like time speeds up, you know, or events like this illusion of time speeding up with events that are piled on top of each other, trying to re-litigate or litigate these events while they're happening, you know, or while they've just happened.

Because it is a matter, it is really a matter of great importance what happened on October 7th. It's not something in the same sense that it's a matter of great importance what happened on 9-11 and November 22nd, 1963. Like, those, like, it is extreme. You guys already forgot about January

7th, I say. Oh, yeah. 6th, actually. Motherfucker, you're the one who forgot. Or January 7th, I see. Oh, yeah. Sixth, actually. Motherfucker, you're the one who forgot. Or January 6th, yeah. My bad. Actually, that's a good point. Maybe I've forgotten. That's a good point, though,

because January 6th is kind of another example of that in a different way. They tried to make that a thing they tried to enter that into the date canon along with like you know what was uh uh well um why am i brain farting on one of the most significant events and it started world war two 9-11 that started world warii 20 something years ago are you talking about world war i the assassination of france ferdinand france ferdinand yeah maybe i don't know anyway moving moving on by the way the assassination of france ferdinand is another one of those things

it's like it looks it looks um pretty straightforward the surface, but a lot of the people that gave Gavrilo Princip and the Black Hand their guns and shit were... I'm pretty sure they were, like, deeply tied to the Austro-Hungarian government. So it's like, there is a way to read it that, like, they basically... They were known to federal officials. Like, they kind of egged them on to assassinate the heir to the throne.

So, like, you know how we always talk about, like, the FBI implanting themselves with, like, the January 6th people? Yeah. January 6th. For the eighth time, yes. Like, those people have sort of always been, like, the sort of the undercover, like, instigators. I would, yeah, it's, you hesitate to apply a universe to it. That's incredibly naive of me to even, but I'm saying, like, it would be interesting to sort of go back in history and see sort of the real hidden hands that egged things on. Well, I think that's the thing we were getting at

like what was it last week or maybe two weeks ago it's like whether it's intentional or not it it's hard to say right in the sense of like a franz ferdinand or even 9-11 like were they intentionally trying to do these things maybe same thing with october 7 or maybe muhammad attar just really wanted to fly or maybe he had a dream he dared to dream and the bastard skilled but like it could be true that the structural logic of those systems compel the actors within the systems themselves to bring down their own systems to or to or to force the hand of history to sort of bring on the next stage of it so that like they're not even aware they're doing it like i said maybe the fbi even literally bought all the passports and flight instructions for the terrorists not even realizing they're like oh we're gonna do 9-11 they were like oh oh we're gonna do 9-11 but they're always

like in a fugue state almost they were doing in their heads they were probably like oh we're gonna do 9-11 and then on 9-12 they were like oh my god it's got a little down the road from us This is kind of a fight. The center of gravity is the civilian population. And if you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat. So I have repeatedly made clear to Israel's leaders that protecting Palestinian civilians in Gaza is a strategic imperative. There is a place in Gaza called the Muassi. The Muassi is the place where they all can have shelters. Together with international organizations, we created shelters for the Palestinian people. So you cannot say Israel is not facilitating that.

This is where she's talking about. A desolate wasteland of sand dunes next to the Mediterranean Sea. There is no help here. I think it will be seen that the IDF really has done everything that is humanly possible to try to safeguard innocent civilians. It's very hard to believe that, especially on a day when one of our producers lost nine members of his family, nine members of his family who were not members of Hamas, not members of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, not members of any group, just nine people just trying to live their lives. That happened in northern Gaza, where a month ago we already asked all the civilians to

leave. And most of them did. If there was like 1,200,000 people there, there was only a couple of tens of thousands left. And one has to ask, yes, they had ample opportunity to leave. I don't know what happened. I don't have the specific circumstances. I know there's deadly combat going on now in the north. And we don't want to see anyone caught up in the crossfire.

But why didn't they heed the advice and leave the area? You can't blame them. I don't blame them. But in the first five, but why didn't they heed the advice and leave the area? You can't blame them. I don't blame them. But you can't. There's fighting in the South now. I mean, I've been asking this since October 7th. Where are these people supposed to go? This is a total tangent. Anyways, I'm sorry to take us down there. I'm just trying to point out that the history of the actual events of what happened on October 7th,

it's like they have been simultaneously sublimated, repressed, and at the same time, it's all we can ever talk about. It's invoked every single time. It's all we can ever talk about. It's like it's invoked every single time. Joe Biden in this article talking about how he was going to run for president, like he had to. He had no other choice. Basically invoked October 7th. It's on the tongues of everybody, but the actual event itself can't be discussed in any way.

Yeah. I mean, we don't even have apparently um we don't there's not even footage right or there's an edited footage you know or cut out footage right footage there's footage that's cut out from that day right yeah you know so it's like i mean i mean i don't know man i i think like part of what it is is sort of thrown as we've talked about in the patreon is throwing out so much information at you you know that you're kind of drowned in it, you know. But also, too, it's about, in real time, shaping and crafting the narrative, you know. So, like, we have to continually talk about October 7th as if, like, 1948, right, is not a thing, you know.

As if, like, 2008, you know, isn not a thing you know as if like 2008 you know isn't a thing right 2011 is as of the past 70 years like it's been alienated and lifted out of history yes you know so that so that they can history is negated yes the history is negated so that they can replace with their like a temporal narrative de-materialized narrative yeah right that is a great point um and it's it just seems to me that that's the case i mean that that kind of feels like the playbook and we're probably repeating ourselves on past episodes but like just to take it back to this article uh although joe biden described himself as, a bridge to the next generation during his 2020 campaign. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's literally plucked from Bill Clinton. A bridge to the new millennium was his last campaign's slogan. If Joe Biden is a bridge and if America's crumbling infrastructure is is any indication that i would tell you not to get on that bridge brother you should jump off the bridge actually that's a damn lancaster county covered bridge i think that um oh my god you're the the implication at the time was this is why i called them july monarchists on twitter it's like they understood themselves to be a placeholder a very like tenuous placeholder until the next thing could arrive that's how they build themselves like oh we'll step aside we just have to beat trump this one time and then we'll step that's that is such a good point i mean i know it's a point that's like but it's like we were sold god damn we're so housebroken that what we accept is

listen we're just gonna stave off the bad and then we'll figure something out for next time but the thing they figured out for next time is now we gotta stay the course i guess yeah there there is no one else well i mean i mean there would be like i mean not that you know the squad not to say that um that the squad is i mean i think they represent like uh at least these social democratic ideas that are especially appealing to like young people in the working class writ large but you would think that that would be the next generation of progressive politics right or or or more progressive democratic party but they're in time out they're in the time out corner all the time you know you know what i mean so the democratic party has no one else in the ranks whereas the right

they have psychos like marjorie taylor green and Lauren Boebert and George Santos popping up all the time to take the throne. Maybe not Santos. Actually, Santos is a bad example because, you know what? Like, shout out to Santos though because if you can run for office and just lie your whole way through, that's the way you do it, brother man. All the way to the very end, evading the cops, man. it's it's interesting that like as i read read that article which by the way i just want to finish the last article um or the last paragraph he said trump didn't even show up at my inauguration biden noted i can't say i was disappointed but he didn't even show up mr biden added that he received 81 million votes in 2020 almost like somebody's's age. It's hell turning 40 twice, is what he said.

Yo, that is so, yo, two things real quick. That is so, that is so, wait, what's the first thing that he said? The first thing that he said again? Biden didn't, or Trump didn't even show up at my inauguration. Yeah, yeah, like these people are so obsessed with these small little formalities and like, you know, displays of decorum. I just think that sort of exemplifies the entire ideology.

He didn't show up to my rehearsal. Fuck you, Karen. The man that's accused my family of all manner of sexual degeneracy, finance crimes, and everything didn't want to come to my coronation. Accused my family of all manner of sexual degeneracy, finance crimes and everything.

Didn't want to come to my coronation. I think that reading this article, it became obvious to me that like, and this is the ultimate hollowness and hypocrisy of like the votes, vote scolding. Like if you don't vote for Biden, it's a vote for Trump. Biden, their, their entire campaign and administration has decided that they don't need the left this explains their obstinate stance on palestine why they're absolutely

stubborn on this and will not budge in any way because they didn't need the left in 2020 they won with the moderates in the suburbs you know chuck schumer's mythical moderates in the suburbs in 2016 actually did vote for biden in 2020 that that statement from chuck schumer in 2016 which we all laughed at and derided like oh they're so out of touch it actually works for them in 2020 they peeled off all those moderates in the suburbs who didn't want to vote for trump a second time that's who they're still going for that's their voting block they don't need the left they don't fucking care about the well i think they do they didn't maybe four years ago i think they do now they you mean like they they do actually need you think they're underrated they're underrating

people that yeah like left-wing people this time i think and you think they're underrating the moderates who would go for trump who went for biden probably overrating well i don't know i mean i i don't want to prognosticate because who the fuck knows how these things... I mean, it's easy to do like a post-mortem on these, but it's like hard to like sort of prognosticate. But what I think is, yeah, that they will get sort of a rude awakening for not even giving the slightest conciliatory gesture to left-wing people because i think that's going to be a bigger block than they think just in terms of younger people yeah just in terms of you know right well i mean also too it's like not even just giving the finger to the left but you know when i was in dc whenever i go to these protests like you know i'm very aware that like

not everybody there is a leftist a socialist a communist you know i'm very aware that like not everybody there is a leftist a socialist a communist you know i'm sure liberals and progressives but like like they're the democratic party has given a finger to like people that are just anti-imperialist to muslims to arabs you know to young people as well that's something that's going to cost them sorely i think exactly i think the thing is is that yes okay so like you're right both of you are right about all the above right like they do actually need the left if they're going to try to win this one because people do have amnesia in this country and those moderates that peeled off for biden in 2020 probably will just go back to trump in 2024 especially if the economy is not doing you know the economy's

not great and they're you know what i mean like all these things that they just blame biden for which i mean they should right right however i don't think that it should be our concern like true like i think like i we should set this one out well it's hard because like you start to sound like cliche and you start to sound like, you know, just repeating yourself over the past 30 years and you feel like a Ralph Nader voter or whatever. I don't mean it in that sense. I mean that the left,

if it's serious, has to actually start viewing this current space we're in as the disconnective, like severance between itself and the democratic party in the sense that we have to start developing a mentality that sees that the victory and success of the democratic party is a loss a net loss for the working class itself no matter how much the democratic party tries to spin it otherwise and no matter how many like no matter how much they lean on your guilt and conscious to say like don't you care about the supreme court and all this other stuff i think the thing is is it just shows that like there is a difference there and a lot of the left

doesn't want to acknowledge that because we are you know moral people with consciences and we don't want people to suffer more. Yeah. But the fact of the matter is that the Democratic Party has written us off. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. We're not the ones throwing people under the bus. They are. They've already done that.

Exactly. And you see this in the hubris of this statement. Like, an 81-year-old man is putting himself in the Passat Thermopylae. He's all 300 Spartans going up against... You'll see that I'm kind. Xerxes Trump. You'll find that I'm kind.

I don't know, man. Worship me as your king and as your god. Yeah. And I think that the stakes, stakes dude the stakes really are fucking high because like i saw this thing yesterday about like mike johnson like saying speaker of the house mike johnson say like he's blurring january 6 footage so rioters don't get charged like they're protecting the january 6 people like straight up like they do not recognize the sovereignty of the u.s government they probably literally are

planning some sort of permanent takeover by they i mean the christian nationalists i mean did it did christian zionists i mean did it like um um you know i don't want to give too much validity to this but biden's uh not biden's trump's uh i don't know what it's called but it's basically pax americana does it basically talk about like like um um interpreting interpreting like the executive branch in such a way that it'll give like outsized power to the president you know i mean they want to monitor they want to monarchy you well i guess you would say you know but i get in a junta do you have a singular strong man or is it just like the army i mean i guess you do buffeted by the army but i think yeah generally you would have like a singular strongman.

In an ideal hunter, you'd have a couple of strong boys. That's what I was going to say. That's what I was thinking. Five or six. You'd have like five or six of them. You'd have a committee of fellas, you know. Committee of strong fellas. So listen, are we doing a violent coup?

Sure we are, but we're doing it democratically i um you know i i guess just to tie this back around to like what we were talking about at the beginning is the left is serious about things you read in books, the scripture. The future doesn't come out of scripture. The future comes out of your ability to dream and, you know, have visions about what that future would be. And you got to ask yourself, what does 81-year-old Joe Biden dream about? There are no visions there, man.

It's just cobwebs. It's just dusty cobwebs. Fucking dust floating, like specks of dust floating in a beam of sunlight. Well, and also it's kind of like the instigators of history. We talked about it in the pejorative sense like you know the people that you know escalated things by badgering a bunch of fucking unwell people into doing crimes or whatever you know but there's also those that you know sort of agitate behind the scenes in a good way you know i was just

reading about one of the midrashes of interpretations of the parting of the Red Sea. And the biblical stories, of course, that Moses comes and he has his staff and he clings it and it parts. But there's one midrash that talks about a young boy, I think his name was Nakeemem who actually the reason the red sea parted is he jumped in there not knowing if it was going to part or not but god impressed by his faith oh you know and i think about like i hope they at least caught him you know hit the bottom

in the empty swimming pool it was a trust fall it was like a trust but i was moved by that you know sometimes you gotta kind of kind of jump when it seems like you know we don't know what's going to be there yeah i like that i like that interpretation a lot actually because of the i don't know when you talk about dreams and manifesting things and i don't mean to be hokey about it but you know it does i don't know it does make me think about like um like this phrase like the dreamer of the dream you know you know what i mean like are you the one that that dreams god or is god dreaming you you know right well and i think that like that's again this is the kind of underwriting anxiety that people have about the unwashed uncredential left, the rubes on the left. It's that like we have our dreams.

We have the ability to have visions and like messages from beyond, from beyond that, like our, our realist, you know, our sort of like no horizons present. Like that's not just completely derived from the things we've read in books and the good grades we got on tests and everything it's like we've lived fully in the world and can visualize and like receive messages from this like greater sort of spirit world spirit truth or whatever and like that's what they hate yo that's what has to be stamped out. Would you put it like that? They really hate us because we dream, bro.

They hate us because we got dreams, dog. They hate us because we're dreaming. We dare to dream. Yeah, but you don't have this like blinkered, limited, like realist vision of the world. You know what I'm saying? This fatalist deterministic vision of the world. Right, that everything has to be everything has to be like triangulated with priors everything has to be like a checklist or a rubik's cube or or you have to like check all the the the right statements

and denouncements and and considerations that like that it's abominable to them that you would just exist in history and play off of it like a revolutionary would yeah you know what i'm saying studying for the test bro they're mad that we didn't study for the test you know what i'm saying yeah that you're not like weighed down by the scripture like yes it is important to know the scripture. However, that is not how you come up with new worlds. Yo, that's such a good point, man, that they're... And I think, Tom, to kind of connect to something that you were saying, because I've been thinking about something you said on the Patreon, man, about all these people, these techno-futurists who are,

with their technology, who are just reupholstering the past right you know i mean all this amazing technology that could like solve so many of the world's problems they just want to go back to like neo-feudalism right and like it's sort of this idea that these people that you're talking about terence these people that are incapable of dreaming like they're so mired in like the dead the the words of dead men you know yeah and they're so mired by like history that they're unable to even assess the present for what it is or imagine a better future and they're pissed because like we're not and to say again like not to say that we're not well read but we can because actually we are well read or because we have i hate the term lived experience like

people can imagine something beyond tomorrow, you know? I mean, beyond today, you know? And something that is not just a continuation of what's happening right now, you know? You're right, and this gets at what we were talking, again, on the Patreon, that, like, the right has never been weaker, and I see signs in that in, A, the rise in, not the rise, it's always been there,

but, like, the reliance on Christian Zionism as an explanatory model and, and like form of geopolitical praxis for these people, which again, it's like the the coward's ideology. But be the on the more trad cat side, the, you know, return to tradition or neo feudalism or religion and all these other things it's like no one can dream everybody is completely weighed down by the past they cannot escape it and imagine imagine being so tormented by that imagine being so tortured by that like i read this quote in this New York Times article about the Biden administration's strategy on Gaza as Israeli forces push into southern Gaza. imperative for the united states that quote the massive loss of civilian life and displacement on the scale that we saw in northern gaza not be repeated in the south like this i read this like the day after that journalist saeed eric hat was was grilling the state department spokesman on but yeah basically the man that was that was that was a brain boiler right there

insane just them yeah just them again insisting that is israel's not deliberately targeting civilians and then so like you read this and it's like they they're basically saying like we realize israel has committed genocide and ethnic cleansing in northern gaza and we're we are recommending them to not do it again in southern gaza it's like their their policy basically amounts to like before israel commits genocide they say israel won't commit genocide we promise while israel is committing genocide they say well we promise Israel's not committing genocide they're not deliberately targeting civilians and then after they've done it they say like alright

okay so they did it they actually committed genocide fine but they won't do it again they're not going to commit more genocide and then the cycle repeats itself imagine being in that tortured cycle of just illusion and like and I know that they're

fucking democratic cogs and bureaucrats and they have no souls and all this other stuff however at the same time you have to actually you have to actually be able to call that out if you're trying to differentiate yourself and dream of something different and better you have to actually like say like look this is this is the best they've got and like that's what i would be voting for potentially like i i don't know i just i just think that like it's a kind of like realism that like becomes so bogged down in the contradictions of its present moment that they can't even see the contradictions in their own sentences that in the first half of the sentence they admit there's a genocide going on and in the second half of the

sentence they they say that there is no genocide going on yeah yeah yeah it's almost like they have to sort of like construct this uh this this this wall you know like because if they don't do that then they would actually have to reconcile these contradictions you know yeah which would indict which means that the united states and they would be indicted. I mean, watching that, watching that, um, that journalist, um, grill that, um, that, uh, like it was the State Department, the State Department spokesperson. Yeah. Was just like that, that, that guy was just like a fucking eel, yo. He was just slimy and slipping out of the grasp of the journalist.

Do you call the killing of 20,000 Palestinians an atrocity? Does that befit the term? Saeed, I was speaking to the intentional murdering of civilians that we saw Hamas commit. And you don't think that Israel intentionally killed civilians? We think far too many. I have not seen evidence that they are intentionally killing civilians. We believe that far too many

civilians have been killed. But again, this goes back to the underlying problem of this entire situation, which is that Hamas has embedded itself inside civilians.

There was a report that Israel's assault forced the nurse to leave babies behind. They were found decomposing. If it did happen, is that a war crime? Said, I would say that is a tragedy. It's a tragedy for those babies.

It's a tragedy for their family members. It's a tragedy for the Palestinian people, and it is a tragedy for the world. And it is why we have made clear that far too many Palestinians have been killed in this conflict and that of course includes far too many Palestinian children and of course Palestinian babies and it is why we have taken every measure we could

to speak loudly and clearly to the government of Israel that it needs to do everything it can to minimize civilian harm it's like how do you not collapse and have a stroke from the from the contradictions right refusal to actually contest with the contradictions how are they not just having mass aneurysms in the hall of congress just dropping dead like flies yo because i never like you reconcile this shit it's it's just fascinating you're right like how does their brain not just like just like have like a fucking command protocol that just can't do it anymore just like just like shuts down like a high school basketball scoreboard sound just like

like how did their brains not do the titan submersible implosion we need this to happen how's this not happening yo yeah just they do autopsies and like yeah there's nothing in their head like the brain literally collapsed into itself nothing going on there we're actually not sure there was ever anything in there oh my god you're yeah just like a mass epidemic of just yeah they're cutting open the skulls and like the the doctors are themselves are getting sucked into the black holes in their skulls like oh no no no god that's a pretty good science fiction story holy shit cutting open the braids of a of a of a statesman and getting sucked in into the dante's inferno of depravity of their minds exactly what it is well um well i don't know i think that's pretty much all i had for today

like i just want to stress that like the um it seems very much to me that the christian zionists are if you take them at their word but which obviously all right-wing populists say this kind of insane shit before they get into office and then when they get into office they then have to start triangulating with like the world bank and like various global leaders and like implementing austerity and blah blah blah so it's like entirely but again i think that that is also part of the fascist process that we've been outlining here that like both wings of that global fascist party uh project collaborate and that's why like that's why, like, that's why, like, I remember in 2016, there being this big thing about, like, a new popular front, like, we have to unite with the liberals to defeat the

fascist popular front. And it's like, and then, like, something people would bring up was like, oh, if you think that that's stupid, like like the common turn policy in the 1930s is basically what gave rise to uh hitler in germany which is kind of true i mean i do agree i do think that like calling social democrats social fascists in the 1930s did contribute to the weakening of the communist party and therefore the rise of hitler so you're telling me you're telling me i shouldn't call will stancil uh a uh a cowardly koskiite motherfucker well i shouldn't do that now i'm saying that like in the sense that like it seems like everything has been inverted all symbols and everything have been inverted i do think it is true now although like you can't make a popular front with those assholes. Like, it seems like their project

is so fundamentally at odds with ours, and it's on display everywhere you look, from Palestine to the economy or whatever. There's no way to ally with them to stop Trump, because they don't, they are not invested in stopping Trump. Nothing about

anything they've said shows any investment in stopping him. No, they're just shows any investment in stopping him no they're they're just they're they're they're they're invested in being morally right right and like having the appearance of being on the right side of history right you're right if it was if it was as big of a threat as they're making it out to be which i actually take it to be as big of a threat but if it was the threat that they're saying you wouldn't put an 81 year old man in the pass at thermopoly as the last as as like the gandalf you shall not pass like this it's not going to work man bro they should have just you know i know we're closing out but like it's like all of this like like all this uh finger wagging and all the scolding it's just like it's it just

makes no sense to me because you could have impeached the man and prevented him from becoming running for president again you know what i mean right there's all these things that you could have done if you really mean the whole january 6 hearings which i even think like that the chairman came out of that committee came out and said yeah uh before i guess they even the the hearings were even finished yeah um we're not going to prosecute anyone you know we're actually not going to prosecute anyone you know we're talking about like people that anyone, you know. We're actually not going to prosecute anyone, you know. We're talking about, like, people that were actually, like, in government who colluded with January 6th rioters, you know. Right.

So it's like, you people don't take this seriously. It's not, yeah. No, it's just Batman and the Joker shit, man. It's like, you complete me, you know. Like, I can't exist without you, you know. without you you know um well you know encourage listeners to not like think of that in a one dimensional way think of it in a dialectical way and like truly absorb the implications of that um so like we have to get off here tom has to go um tom you can go ahead and hop off if you need to i'm just gonna plug the patreon but uh Patreon. But we just want to say thanks for listening this week, everybody. If you'd like to go

hear more content, we have the Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash JoeBillyWorkersParty. We've been hammering away at all of these themes and more for weeks now. So if you want to hear more please go over there check that out uh i haven't figured out how to do the annual subscription thing yet apparently we don't qualify for that i don't know why why is patreon hating on us we may not have enough money to qualify bro we're still we're still uh we're still we're still uh we're still on the bottom yeah we're still bottom feeders i guess it's true creatures true. We're still benthic creatures. We are. We have been that since the beginning.

We are like carp. I mean, yeah, we're remoras, essentially. Yeah. We're carp. We eat krill. Yeah, yeah. Which just means we're parasites. No, we're not parasites, but we're-

We eat parasites. We eat parasites, exactly. We do. Okay, so please go check out the Patreon and help us get to a place where we're qualified enough to offer annual subscriptions, I guess. I don't know.

At least help us become big dicks around town. That's what we want to be. We want to be big dicks around town. We want to be big swinging dicks around town. Big swinging dicks around town. Big swinging dicks around town. Big swinging dicks around town. Sounds like a really good song.

So please go support us over there. You're right. It sounds like a Christmas song. It does. Big swinging dicks around town. It's the 25th day of December. It's snowing outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My dick is swinging. But you know Santa's coming down the chimney when you hear the big swinging dick. Hitting the sides of the chimney walls. You're like, oh, man, he's fucking coming to block my mom. Yeah, coming to fuck my mom and my dad. And eat the cookies and milk, what that's what that's the thing it's like santa comes and has a threesome with your parents every year your parents it doesn't leave presents we got like your parents like we gotta put out milk and cookies for santa see that's why they hated on rudolph man because

he spoke the truth because he was trying he was trying to expose that conspiracy you know it's not because of his red nose right like he was like he was trying to blow the whistle like santa's fucking all your parents i'm actually the one who gets you all the presents he just fucks your mom and dad oh fuck oh shit all right um anyways please go check out the patreon and all of our great millenarian content over there um and so until next time we will talk to you later we'll see you in the patreon peace out So, I understand you correctly. You're saying that the killing of 700 Palestinians over a period of 24... Saeed, I always like when I use my own words, not when you try to put words in my mouth.

I want to understand what you said properly. You said that we have seen improvement. I'm asking you directly. You think that the killing of 700 people in 24-hour period is an improvement? I'm just asking you to say yes or no in accordance to what you said. So, Saeed, I don't think you were listening very closely to what I said. I was listening very closely. Clearly not, because what I said is we have seen improvement in their plans for Khan Yunists, their plans for the south. We have seen them

evacuate specific neighborhoods rather than entire areas. So the numbers of displaced persons will hopefully be lower in southern Gaza than it was in the north. But when it comes to results, we are going to monitor it very closely. And I think I was pretty clear about that. I think the secretary was pretty clear about that on Thursday. Give us a figure. What would be acceptable? What would be acceptable? Because you talked about it. Saeed, we mourn the loss of every civilian life.

We don't want to see any civilians killed in this. What have you done to really minimize that? Remember, Gaza is the size of Washington, D.C. When you tell people to move, like now, and they have nowhere to go, nowhere to go. They're striking and hand units they're saying actually we're hitting every place in gaza you know so where should people go people should go in the end let's take it one question at a time before you asked a question let me answer people should go to the un designated sites where that are on israeli lists as deconfliction zones

that should not be the target of military campaigns. There are already people who are sheltering in those. As the campaign moves to the south and Israel evacuates specific neighborhoods or orders specific neighborhoods to be evacuated, that is where people should go. Okay, but we know that they bombed UN facilities and so on. Let me ask a couple of other questions. you Thank you.