Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 398: If You Don't Fight, You Lose (w/ special guest Tracy Rosenthal)

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

This week we're joined by returning guest Tracy Rosenthal to discuss the Zohran Mamdani mayoral campaign: how it was shaped, how it won the Democratic Primary, what it may look like going forward, and how the rest of the media and political class is reacting to it. But first, we catch up on some housekeeping re: Israel and the U.S.'s war against Iran, and talk very briefly about Peter Thiel's fixation on the Antichrist. Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

Whoa, all right. Welcome to the show. I was just reading this interview with Peter Till in the New York Times. Ross Duthat interviewed Peter Till. Are y'all, I mean, I know Tom is. Tracy, are you aware that Peter Till's got like an obsession with the Antichrist? Actually, I did not know that,

but maybe it should be more surprising, but it isn't yeah He's he's pretty obsessed with the Antichrist there's a lot I mean like the a solid 80% of this interview is just him talking about how Back to the future promised us flying cars, and we don't have flying cars. I mean is this like the most and we don't have flying cars. I mean, this is like the most boilerplate shit. Like, I mean, like, I'm sorry, but like, if you think,

if you're mad that Back to the Future promises flying cars and we don't have flying cars, you're a simpleton. I just don't know how else to like put it. Well, no, I mean, he's like engaged in his project of nostalgia for his youth, which he associates with a certain form of economic and racial power and supremacy, and that is the, you know, from which we have fallen. It makes sense that the films of his youth are the things

through which he has come to his politics, I don't know. That's fucked up. The films of my youth were films like Crash, David Cronenberg, like we don't have mass auto erotica or autophilia. I'm fucking pissed about that. I'm pissed that people aren't fucking on the side of the road.

Like in, what the fuck? Problem is sucking and fucking in public. Yeah, car crash scenes, what the fuck? I'm mad about, that's the thing I'm gonna choose to be mad about and I like my whole revanches politic Are you talking about the crash that ludicrous was in Where the guy shoots the black guy because he said he liked country music or something yeah What movie should I build a politic around I I mean, I guess it would be like

a van. I mean, right. Would it be a vampire movie? And then like what? Yeah. What is the politic that sustains that? Unfortunately, it's probably capital, right? Because they're like just ancient who like they can never die. And they're like completely immune from being harmed. That's true. Like always ridiculous. like always, they just have inherited wealth. So like, unfortunately I'm like, oh no, let's build another one. Cause I'm just like, I just picked a fantasy version of the thing that we have.

What was the vampire movie when we were, like was it interview with the vampire? Was that the Anne Rice one with Brad Pitt? That's Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise. Okay, yeah. And baby Kristen Stewart. Whoa, she's in that one. Yeah, baby Kristen Stewart as uncontrollable.

In the world building of that film, the rules are if you're a vampire baby, you can never be disciplined or something You can't be spanked. I like I don't know she's just like yeah, it's no but like the two of them I mean right I think part of the bit okay part of the thing that in in that movie is that they're definitely gay for each Other in a way that does make sense for my politic like for their politic that I wish to see in the world So then okay, I I accept okay, so that's yours me and Tom got the two crashes I got the Kroneberg crash and Tom got the Paul Haggis crash I want to retract that I

thought you were just saying that the Paul Haggis crash was the the thing for you well it's true we were We were promised a beautiful anti racist Future where cops save I mean I was like dead doesn't like Matt Dylan like save Sandra Bullock from a burning vehicle Like how is that supposed to be anti racist? They're both white Or was it? Or did I think one of them was having an affair with the fireman's wife or something like that? I can't remember one of them was having an affair with the fireman's wife or something like that. I can't remember What I was there was it was like ethnic whites. It was like everybody's life

Yeah, there was some like yeah, they should do crash But it's like about the perils of ethnic white racism like Polish people hating on Irish hating on There was a lot of like anti-italian sentiment in the last election You know it's like really harmful to the Italian people. That's true. That's so true. That is so true Yeah, that's very This the perils of that I'd like okay this teal interview till says I had a conversation with Elon a few weeks ago About this, about

cornucopian optimistic language. He said, he said we're going to have a billion humanoid robots in the US in 10 years. And I said, well, if that's true, you don't need to worry about the budget deficits because we're going to have so much growth, the growth will take care of this. And then, well, he's still worried about the budget deficits. This doesn't prove that he doesn't believe in the billion robots but it suggests that maybe he hasn't thought it through or that he doesn't think it's going to be as transformative economic you know I must think we're gonna have a billion humanoid robots in ten years he couldn't even build a fucking train to

from Los Angeles to San Francisco he couldn't even make a tunnel he can't dig a hole like literally he can dig a hole for himself he like the only thing he can do is dig himself a rhetorical hole he can't even dig a fucking tunnel he can dig a metaphor you're right he can do you make a metaphorical hole but not a literal one I heard today that you void the warrant warranty on a supertruck if you take it through a car wash. That does inspire a lot of confidence I have to say. On the cyber truck? Just from a consumer perspective. Yeah, not that it's in good taste to drive a super truck, but like,

you know. Yeah, it's just, it's not even waterproof. It just soaks it up like a piece of bread or something. It does kind of look like the DeLorean right like the car from back to the future Oh, yeah, if you squint a little it does kind of look like the DeLorean. I wonder if Peter Thiel thinks that that's true Yeah, that's yeah, maybe that's the thing It does the DeLorean right then where did that that come from, from my brain? Like what? That's a big pool.

But it doesn't have the suicide doors like the DeLorean did. Yeah. Yeah. Those were tight. Those were tight, let's be honest. Yeah, you're talking about a formative piece of my childhood. That's what I thought was the, you know,

the sine qua non of like good taste is pulling up with the suicide doors on the Phantom that was That's what I was trying. Yeah And never achieved you're not alone. You're not alone. Yeah, I mean I was going for mad scientist vibes flux capacitor Wait now I can't hear you. Fuck my life. Wait Tracy. I think you're muted No, I think you're muted. Okay. All right. What no you know that was you We might have both you might have been a mutual muting Yeah, I don't know I

Mean like the rest of this article is like pretty pretty dumb and pretty boring but like he just like he's like really obsessed with like the Antichrist He's obsessed with like how it might become Like I guess like what he's saying and I get I haven't I didn't read this like but I didn't comb through it with a with with any like real with any real scrutiny, but I think he's saying that the anti-crisis metaphor for the one world government, new world order type thing and I just like, these guys have been on this thing for like 30 or 40 years now, right? Like new world order, one world government, and it's like if it was gonna happen, it would have already happened I feel like, right?

Like why are they so... Also, y'all got all the money. Seems to me like if there was gonna be an ushering in of a new world order, that y'all would be the ones. They would be the ones doing it, yeah. Yeah, spearheading that. Sounds to me like, Tills a little bit, like he might be the antichrist,

but he's just like trying to futilely throw everybody off the scent, you know? You're like, it isn't me. You're like, it isn't me. Like, I don't.... It's kind of wild. This guy's going to rise up, take power. It's not me. It's like that meme.

It's like everyone's trying to figure out who did this. I mean, we are living through the era of the fall of international law and that promise of any kind of the UN of any kind of international governance. Yeah. In that sense, it has come to pass. That's true. I think actually that's a really good segue

for me to talk about. So Tracy, I wanted to have you on a little bit because I wanted to talk a little bit about what happened. You didn't want to just hear about my childhood movies? Well, we can talk about that. We could take two hours on that alone. Yeah, you recommended a good movie to me recently. I'd never actually watched Scorsese's Age of Innocence.

That should go so hard. Oh God, so good. Oh, it was because you were sick and I was like, you gotta only watch like movies that make you think of consumption Yeah, there's there's some good consumption content in that movie. Yeah, what's the what's the anodyne quality of consumption movies when one's fallen ill? It's just you get to it's it like helps you wallow. I think well, oh yeah, there was bright star That one is also a good consumption movie the Jane Campion movie If y'all are from I'm like, no, I mean it depends on how sick you are

I'd just be like just watch Bridgerton and get it over with like it's fine You know death's door or is your recovery pretty likely? Right. If it's pretty likely, you should watch Age of Innocence. If it's not, then just go to Bridgerton and have yourself a good time, like one last ride. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, no we I wanted to have you on to talk a little bit about the

mayoral race in New York City But we we have a little bit of housekeeping we got to do before we get to that in the you know Extended Trillbilly's universe where every episode is a continuation of the one before it Where every episode is a continuation of the one before it The last time the listeners checked in if you are subscribed to patreon which would have been on Monday We had I don't know like Monday morning. We were still looking at Potentially the start of World War three a lot has changed just since that time

So I wanted to just kind of touch on that very briefly so what had happened was I'm pretty sure it was either sun late Sunday night or no it was late Monday night where the Israel and Iran formally put in place a ceasefire right and Iran formally put in place a ceasefire, right? And like this followed on the hills, I mean it's weird, it doesn't even feel like this happened now.

This followed on the hills of the strike on the Fordow, the nuclear uranium enrichment facility in Iran. And when that happened on Saturday, obviously we're like, oh my God, we're going to fucking war, like everything is really bad like and Then like in the classic like Trump away like it kind of fizzles out into anti-climax like it's like

I don't know if maybe the strike was arranged in such a way as to perhaps get Israel off of the administration's ass or You know what I mean? If they if they did it in such a way as to not even really Make significant damage on the enrichment facility even though they claim that damage did occur Iran claims and damage didn't occur Whatever they were like we successfully moved the weapons before the strike exactly the line. Yeah. Yeah and the weapons before the strike. Exactly.

That's the line. Yeah. Yeah, and regardless, like on Monday, Iran and Israel formally like signed this peace deal. But then like, you know, late Monday evening, early Tuesday morning, Israel had dropped it, you know, a shit ton of bombs once again on Iran.

And then like you've got that clip where I'm sure that I'm sure you guys saw this, the clip of Trump like, you know, standing on the White House lawn and he's selling these reporters like I'm very mad at Israel. Like you know, they we've got two countries that don't know what the fuck they're doing. Israel, as soon as we made the deal, they came out and they dropped a load of bombs, the likes of which I've never seen before. what the fuck they're doing. I'm not happy with Iran either, but I'm really unhappy if Israel's going out this morning because the one rocket That didn't land that was shot perhaps by mistake that didn't land. I'm not happy about that We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don't know what the fuck they're doing Do you understand that?

that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Do you understand that? Any outstanding thoughts here? This is such a weird, it's like this, once again, I know I've said this before, but it kind of feels like one of the major structural features of our era is anti-climax in a way. So it's like, and I don't mean this in a nothing ever happens way.

I'm not one of those people. I'm not one of those people who like nothing ever happens. It's just that I don't I want to be clear I don't think you're pining for war either Interprets all this is anticlimactic is that no absolutely not it's just that like I don't know It's just I find continually that like the Trump people that they're not actually about that life, right? Like they're not really like, or maybe it could just be that like, you know, me and you have talked about this extensively over the last like six or seven months, Tracy, you know, and every now and we talk, but like part of it is that like they ran as the peace ticket Vance and Trump, and so they really don't want war but like I don't know do either of

you have any like outstanding thoughts about this like I really well I just wanted to talk about it just because of that clip of Trump on the White House lawn kind of like losing his cool a little bit right like I've not really seen him like that in a while well I mean yeah I mean he doesn't like to feel manipulated and in a sense like Netanyahu is getting everything he wants. And so I think that like that makes him appear weak. And it's all like a popularity. Everything is like a popularity contest for him.

I mean, I think, you know, I like wouldn't want to speculate on what's going to happen. I do think that the statement from Iran that the like damage has not actually occurred is like is deflationary like is strategically deflationary such that like maybe their response will be muted. But like it's you know it's like I that is not really my like this is really now we're really out of my depth. But I, you know, I think that like damaging the, you know, just like thinking about like the long history of Iran's building up of its surplus capacity,

whether that's like military capacity or economic capacity or otherwise. And that part of that surplus goes to support the Palestinian resistance. And, you know, I think that that is really like part of what makes this like part of what makes this moment what it is. And it's, you know, and then just watching the, you know, like watching the New York Times, basically, like they didn't have the time to manufacture consent. So they were just manufacturing acceptance.

Yeah. Like, like the war has already occurred and like the degree of bloodthirst in that institution, like on full display. And I do think that like that is also what gives us our sense of like quote-unquote Anti-climax is because you know the machines of 2000 I mean I've been like one of my friends my friend Toby like put it in the way that like we're living through like the series finale because I was saying that like it's like we're in 2003 and

2020 and 2016 like all at the same time. Like we're doing we're doing the Iraq war. We're doing Bernie and we're doing like we're doing the riot. And all of these things are like and we're doing the 2020 and we're doing 2021 because we're doing. But it's all through the, you know, the prism of imperialism. And so that kind of like series finale quality that we were experiencing is a bit punctured. But I think that that was part of the I mean, I think a lot of that was

was the the spin that was coming from like media bloodthirsts being like this is the best thing. We know how to do Yeah, I think that's pretty spot-on. I think it's It's and also yes, you're right like in a serious for not finale Especially like if it's safe sopranos for example like if if your main character Parishes, it's probably going to be a little anti-climactic, especially if it's self-induced in some way. Wait, you think he dies?

Yeah. Let's, uh, let's for the next 30 or 40 minutes just dissecting. But like it's OK, like and I maybe anti climax isn't like the correct word 100 percent. But like, I guess here's kind of what I'm thinking. No. And like, obviously, you're not saying that like, you know, a

city of nine million people didn't have to evacuate. People like lost their like innocent people once again, lost their lives like and like whatever people generally speaking, like not to participate in innocence discourse right like people lost their lives for like um because of uh effectively because of uh like zionist desperation to like remake the world in its image um but yeah yeah anyway go on. Yeah, you're exactly right. I guess, yeah, what I'm saying is that like within 72 hours, I'm not even exaggerating, literally three days, within 72 hours on a random Thursday in June, Israel woke up and

said, Iran has nuclear weapons, we have to hit them immediately. Within three days, the entire West backed down off of that. I mean, they really did try to go through with the 2003 playbook, which took place over the course of about two months or so. Really, I guess you could say maybe 15 months after 9-11 itself, but they really really like compressed it all down into three days And by the end of the third day like everyone had backed off of that. It's just I mean, it's just that's what I mean

That's what I mean by anticlimax. So maybe that's what I mean like the surreality of it It's like we went from this situation where they just decided like you get like on a random Thursday morning in June like Iran must be taken off the map immediately. And then Monday morning they're like, actually we're good. Where everything is good. I saw some people talking about this and I'm of a couple of different minds about it, but do y'all think that there's some sort of generic rhetorical benefit to Trump just even sort of in his own sort of loosey goosey way, criticizing Israel like that?

No American president really would dare tread there, but he's such a wild card that he would. And do you think that has it? That doesn't mean much for Gazans or or you know anybody else you know under attack from Israel But like do you think there's some like generic benefit to that? Well, I mean it certainly Was a little more off the cuff than I was expecting I mean it was certainly like not that it means anything though right because like how many times did we see Joe Biden do? Something or or I guess we never really saw him literally do it.

The news would just report that he would do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. The way I interpreted his remarks genuinely is that he really, really does not want war. Like that's why, and not for any humanitarian reason or because he's a good person, but because like the polls were like 90%

You know Americans don't want war I think that that's genuinely it and like he kind of like You know you're starting to see now like the emergence of this term Which is you know everyone should put in their lexicon immediately, but an Israeli ceasefire basically is not worth the fucking paper It's printed on like generally the pattern the pattern is that like they'll sign a ceasefire with you and then immediately start bombing you and Assassinating your fucking leaders again to draw you back into it and like Israel tried to do an Israeli ceasefire on Trump And it's just kind of fascinating to watch you know the West Lake or it to watch the Trump administration in particular like come up hard against that reality

I genuinely think Israel will try to do some shit again I mean who knows how soon but yeah, they're not fucking stopping just because the American public doesn't want war fuck No, no I mean the only thing that will stop them is the like you know the end of weapons transfers and like you know another thing one thing that what another thing that happened last week you know like in a week where many things happened was that the the mask off Marist campaign led by the Palestinian youth movement was successful in stopping the transfer of weapons.

They targeted the logistics company that had been transferring weapons. And I think, you know, I mean, I think that that is like a lesson for the whole movement. You know, this idea of a people's arms embargo, that this was an organically led boycott and organically led project that involved forms of direct action and media. And they did successfully break those ties. Obviously, they didn't break the US's relationship to Israel or commitment to sending, you know, like all of Israel's planes come from the US And 60% of its bombs and so I think that But but I feel and like that is the you know

It's like we talk about an art like an arms embargo now and really an arms embargo is the only Tool by which a ceasefire will occur. Yeah 100% and I think that like you're exactly right Tracy until that happens And I think that like you're exactly right Tracy until that happens Israel will just find someone else. I mean because once again I cannot stress enough like they're not gonna stop just because the American public doesn't want war like they're going I mean Maybe I'm wrong. I could be wrong, but it seems like if recent trends are to be believed They're just gonna strike out at anybody recent trends are to be believed they're just gonna strike out at anybody maybe even the United States itself like if the American public doesn't want to go to

war they might just start bombing fucking you know what I'm saying like maybe if maybe they already are you mean the largest Jewish population outside of New York City oh my god the number of times I had to hear that fucking phrase in the last like however in like as a part of the Zoran I'm just like oh my god shut up already oh they'll do it in Kentucky they'll just bring it to Kentucky and start follow the NBA but the Brooklyn that's over corrected for that fact drafting back-to-back Israelis last night all the execs around the league are scratching their head about that one including one of the guys who they don't know if he's

even athletic enough to play in the NBA. Dude it's like Gal Gadot right? It's like exactly it's like it's like a Mulholland drive like this is the girl thing like someone is obviously like no you're gonna hire these what was the phrase you just mentioned the high the largest population of jews outside of israel is in new york city yeah is that true yeah yeah i mean i'm i'm i'm asking you i mean yeah i mean probably i assume so i mean like you know that the number of times that lies are repeated It's like we shouldn't believe it, but yeah, I mean sure that's one of those guys technically I'm one of them, so I should like you know So it's not like Kentucky interesting

We have the highest Gentile population. Firmly Gentile. I'm going to go with that's not true. Percent? I don't know. Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this.

I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this.

I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go ahead and do this. I'm gonna go Tuesday and Thursday and The way that I like put together a show. It's like I like Give my little notepad down. I start writing like headlines. I see like things. I want to cover various

You know fucking texts that I've been reading you know things that are swirling around my head and like I've been doing this for so long that I've whirling around my head. And I've been doing this for so long that I've started this muscle memory thing where I'm like, all right, I gotta pull all the most fucked up facts and theories and you know what I mean? Literature I can think of because I have to

support my thesis that the fucking world is ending, everything's bad, like nothing good ever happens. Nothing good ever happens. We always lose, yeah. Exactly. And I did that today, I was like, let's get the show ready, and then I was like, wait. Trace is coming on, they're gonna want some doom and gloom.

Yeah, like I was like, wait, I don't have to pull, I don't have to like, you know, I don't have to pull, I don't have to like, you know, I don't have to like put together this like, like, you know, list of bad things necessarily. Because we finally- We won, we won. Yes, we have like, for the first time in maybe since, and again, I mean, we've taken shit for,

for supporting Bernie too much in 2020 2020 not supporting him enough in 2020 but regardless um I Had always supported the Bernie thing just because I had friends who were Completely depoliticized people right who are waiters and cashiers and shit who were like I support Bernie and I was like okay That's good It's a good thing if someone who's depoliticized is supporting a candidate like Bernie So as as a result like we supported him in 2020 I genuinely don't think we've had a positive episode or development since Iowa the Iowa caucus

Not electorally Yeah, I was I was saying this to I was like with. I was with I was like talking about this, like the night of this victory and saying like, oh, like, but what about my identity is the sad clown of communism? Like basically just getting up there all the time and saying like, I believe that we will win, but like sort of not actually believing it. Yeah.

You know, but like you have to like, you know, it's like I go out every day and I sell this thing because like you have to, you have to produce belief in order to take the steps that you would take in order to secure a victory. Right. Like it's like, you know, it's not true. Like, but you know, it's just not true that when we fight, we win. But it is true that if you don't fight, you lose.

And like, there's this, there's, you know, and it's like, I was like, well, what am I supposed to do with this like whole shtick that I've got going like now that we've won? And like- You've just verbatim resided the motto of the Kentucky lottery too. Oh no. Totally. I mean like, but in a sense that's what we've been doing is like, you know, just like the crap shoot of organizing and like you get your ass kicked like as you know, and it's like I can claim like small victories and like the building struggles that I've organized of like tenants getting to keep their homes, getting shit fixed, getting their rent canceled, like all this stuff. But just the scale of victory that this represents is like, I admit, like nothing like I've ever participated.

It's like nothing like I've ever participated, nothing that I've ever participated in like at this scale has won. And I think, you know, there was this line. I mean, you know, he talked about it in his speech and like it made me a bit emotional. Like this idea of the campaign and the vision like wanting to give people permission to believe. And I think that that's true.

And I think that like, you know, I said earlier in the call that like, I think I'm now I'm experiencing the come down, which it's like from whatever high that represents, but like, you know, to have, you know, to have spent, you know, more than a decade organizing spent more than a decade organizing and to be faced not with a noble defeat

but with a victory. It's like I think it is a new experience for a lot of people. Yeah, the effect is to me, I mean to me it takes the fangs out of the right a little bit. Like I mean because like we've had such a bad last six months, right? Just like masked fucking government goons kidnapping people. Israeli genocide. Just like you know trans people getting like, you know, gender affirming care

taken away for youth or just like not being allowed health care. It was just like across the board everywhere you look and you just get this like all pervasive terror, this ambient terror that you're surrounded by like psychopaths in like yeah, just these bloodthirsty You know ghouls, but like this was just a one of those moments where you can like say like alright like Not only am I not alone, but there is power in All of us in an organizing or an organization All of us in an organizing or an organization

That the so like it wasn't just a Small win either. I mean this is like no. I mean he and it was a blowout I mean the idea I was getting the inoculation calls from my friends being like just so you know Remember we're not gonna get the results on the first night And I was like, you know and I like for various like reasons, like various reasons, like personal and professional that I can elaborate on later, I've been calling this my I was wrong era. And like, I admit that like I was not a believer, even though I was campaigning.

Like I was canvassing like really early. But like, you know, the my participation was this sort of like, well, you can change the field by entering the race. And that was sort of like for me the goal. And then the theory of the campaign being like, well, you can organize right now unorganized constituencies like predominantly Asian communities in the outer boroughs and like young people and like you can get them animated about a candidate and you can change the shape of the race and extract concessions from the candidate that will win that like to be honest like that's what I thought going into like participating in this campaign. And like what happened was that that that strategy, like, in fact, delivered not just like the victory

that like some people were predicting, like squeaked out by like 1300 votes, but like a concession in the first like a concession within like hours. Yeah. Of that close that morning morning people were saying that we might, we won't have a result till July possibly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we, they were going to have to do all these like rank choice voting scenario, like Senate, like run the computers on rank choice voting,

but they didn't even get to second choices. Like, cause he was everybody's first choice. And yeah, I think that, you know, and I think that there's like many reasons for like why that's a surprise, both to the like, like, I think that's there are many reasons why that's a surprise to everyone, like the democratic establishment, which like, believed that they could like leverage leverage their own Zionism to make Zoran seem out of the realm of political acceptability.

The right who just believes that socialism is the filthy word, that it strikes terror into the heart of man. And then us, on then us, like on the left, just having spent, you know, like 10 years in the gutter, getting our asses kicked. Like, you know? What, or go ahead, Tom.

Well, no, I was just here. Another thing I'm hearing here is that, you know, the more decisive the victory, the less margin for rat fucking to, you know, if it's undeniable, there's only so much, you know, mechanics chicanery they can pull to try to, you know, fuck him out of it or whatever, you know. And I mean, I think the first way that they were gonna try

to fuck him out of it is that Cuomo, you know, had promised to run in the general no matter what, you know, like on his, like, what it like fight and deliver ballot line against Eric Adams and anti-Semitism ballot line. So now, I mean, and this is like, you know, and so that was literally, they had already promised to rat fuck him. But I think that the context of the like, you know,

the scale of the victory is such that now Cuomo has said that he's not going to do that. I I don't know if he could be like lured back in, but it seems like he was humiliated enough to go back to like to go back to the position of disgrace that he was in before he entered the race. Yeah, they're they're saying they might run Bill Ackman. Yeah. Or like, Bill Ackman is going to run a write in candidate who is like, I don't know, I was hearing rumors that it's going to be Richie Torres, which would be like, hell, yeah, just like an ungodly choice. Although then Richie Torres also promised not to run for governor if Zora Mamdani was elected and I was like, please

Please make Zora Mamdani the like mayor so I don't have to deal with governor fucking Torres like ha Kill me there worse than death. Yeah, there's here's some other Names that are being thrown around to run against him in the general. Edward Schuyler, who is deputy mayor for Bloomberg and is now a senior executive at Citigroup. And Jessica Tisch, the police commissioner. So yeah, and- Yeah, and Jessica Tisch, a fascinating character in New York and who was like, you know, was trained by Bill Bratton. And like before then, she she ran the track, she ran trash in New York City. She and like turned it into effectively like another police department.

That's how she described it. And then she like moved to policing. But so she's a really interesting character. But yeah, I didn't know that they were talking about her, but it makes her connections to like that long line of like New York City policing and policy like makes a lot of sense that they would look to her. Yeah, it's to me like there's a few things here, okay? So it's like, you know, and I don't live in New York, obviously I've only visited a handful of times, I don't know a whole lot about it. Come hang.

Nice museums, you'll have nice museums. The, but like my takeaway from this was that like during the Campaign like I think that something that like really struck me from you know where I sit in, Kentucky Was first of all and this partially the reason I wanted to have you specifically on to talk about it was partially like his His stance on rent right freeze the rent great which is like it's a great slogan right One that resonates with a lot of fucking people. But then there was also his position on Israel. And for me, and I've been thinking this and saying this for a while,

but eventually a candidate was going to have to rip the band-aid off on the whole, is Israel a legitimate government? Is it a legitimate country? And then the thing about him is that like Zoran is a, not only is he a very skilled politician, he's a very charming one. So it's like you can, if you're going to have someone rip that band-aid off, it's probably best that it's him. Someone who, you know, he's a pretty fresh face on the scene, I don't think AOC would have been able

to do that, she's at this point got her own thing, maybe baggage for better or worse. But like, I guess maybe when I'm, you know, and we can talk a little. Mostly worse. More mostly worse. Right? But like, you know, could talk about like some of the responses to this but like obviously

People are freaking the fuck out right? and All they called a meeting at 2 p.m.. Today anybody know if I ended up happening the world's power brokers Yeah, or the end of the landlords had their own meeting like emergency meeting Did he really mean freeze the rent? I mean, it's it's funny because I mean maybe I can start with the housing policy thing, you know it's like what's so Fascinating is that like Bill de Blasio did this policy Bill de Blasio froze the rent he froze the rent for rent stabilized tenants in New York City

and that is something that the mayor can do sort of via proxy. You have to appoint people to the rent guidelines board. But if you appoint people who are gonna do that, then that's what they do. And you know, it's too, and I think that, you know, in some ways the theory of the campaign, or at least like when I was in the little,

like the little rooms where we were like talking about this policy is that like New York City is a majority tenant city. And so the needs of tenants are the needs of New Yorkers. And if you campaign on making our lives better as tenants, you you effectively can win the hearts and minds of, you know, that that is the road to the majority. And so it's like, you know, this is a policy that affects two point four million people. And that is and it and more than that, it also makes it cuts a line between like whose side are you on? Right. Like Andrew Cuomo was the only candidate in the in the race, the only Democratic candidate besides Tillman, who like does he even count, right? Like that's a Republican, like in a clown suit.

Like he borrowed Eric Adams clown suit and like put it on to like run in the, like and like, you know, so like, to not to say he wouldn't freeze the rent. And so I think it's just make cuts a line between like landlords and us. And that was the you know, that was the gamut. And I think it's like no wonder that that was fucking popular. Like, it's crazy here. Like, yeah. And I you know, and

then, and I think, but I think it's interesting that like part of what you're describing is the, like is the centrist Democrat, like the democratic establishment strategy for responding to these demands, to a platform that foregrounded affordability was to foreground his, like his solidarity with Palestine. That was their strategy.

They actually did, I mean, they did some of the like, oh, you're never gonna do that, you're gonna raise, like it's not possible, totally classic, like you're gonna raise taxes, totally classic. But mostly the thing that they hit the hardest, right, was that like, you're an anti-semite because you You know because you don't support Israel, which is a Stephen Colbert interview. Yes, that was crazy. Although a part of I mean I don't know

This is like, you know, maybe it was a lob so that once again He could have been save the line that he's been saying it could I don't know But I didn't see the extended cut, which I heard was crazy. But like, right, that's what they do. Like on the debate stage, like no one else gets asked a direct question about Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. No one else gets that question, right?

It's just pure, I mean, it's pure racism as much as it is like a response to his actual politics. And so, you know, but what's, I mean, I think first of all, we should say that this strategy is like, it's actually counter to like all of their bullshit. Like they love to be like, well, you just like run on what people say that they care about in surveys and they care about crime

and we are law and order candidates. And like, but you know what? Like 70 percent of Democrats don't fucking like Israel. So this was the area where they were like, we're going to make this like they tried to make him past the bounds of acceptability and instead isolated themselves. They made themselves look fucking stupid.

And like, you know, and like, we had to sit there and watch like the New York Times, you know, and the New York Times did a really similar thing where they were like, we're not gonna endorse anyone in the race. Just kidding, we're so fucking terrified of this brown socialist that we like, absolutely have to like, endorse by any other means.

And like, just deliver these lines that got put into Cuomo ads that were like, don't rank Zoran. And they said like, because he, you know, they, and they said for two reasons, like, you know, he doesn't take disorder seriously. They were trying their like law and order thing, which they reinforce, they produce and they were trying, you know, and they were like, because, you know, because of his critiques of Israel and the genocide in Gaza. And, you know, I think for the first thing, like, one of the major successes of the Zoran campaign is that it effectively changed voters number one

issue from crime to affordability. It disproves their whole fucking theory that you should just go out chasing after. Like, what do you think? Oh, my God. You think crime is bad? OK, OK, OK. Like, we'll just do we'll be like the tough guys, you know. And and he effectively changed it to affordability, the area that he could win. And also he just made this whole fucking like, you know manufactured crisis of anti-semitism like it like really I think it really was a

Referendum on that as a rhetorical and political bludgeon and yeah in that referendum. They ate shit Shit the New York Times ate shit it's it's really funny to watch again when is the last time you've even like seen a politician with any kind of like deafness or like agility in a situation like that like I mean again AOC is like she's a social media presence I'm sorry but she doesn't have like the Riz like that, you know what I mean? Like, when's the last time you saw a politician able,

that's the thing, just stacking him up against JD Vance is really fascinating, right? Same age, right? Like same generation, you know? It's just like watching this guy who's just, you know, obviously a human being, and also, but just beyond that, like I said, just very good at both side-stepping stupid questions, turning, spinning certain questions around.

It's just like what politics used to be. And just staying in the pocket the whole time, despite all the ugliness thrown at it. And let's be honest that there were moments where he, see like there was a moment in the campaign where I was like Literally fuck this guy. In fact, he owes me an email because I was like, why did you say this thing? Yeah, like like why did you say this thing in this way? Right? So there and and you know, like I think he you know like You know like in the race like I feel like Brad Lander doing like his mensch behavior, right, like, actually,

in some ways, the MVP of the race, like Brad Lander was the one to talk about the famine in Gaza, Brad Lander was the one to talk about Palestinian rights, like, you know, he like, and, and there I my hope is that like this gives the campaign and the candidate permission to actually understand that they have the people's mandate and the people's mandate is that Israel is committing a genocide and that it and that you can say that you are pro-Palestine. And I like, you know, because he loves to do this thing of being like, well, you can disagree with me or like, but you know, he doesn't shy away from socialism

and he knows that that's scary, right? And I think that, you know, it's like, I think it's really this sort of like, it's an area of his campaign that is like over determined by the like media narrative and not by people's actual feelings on the ground. And I think that like my hope, you know, it's like, but I mean, listen, that's not like the man was arrested on October 3rd.

You know, he was arrested multiple times over the years, like over the years and plus of the genocide. He participated in a hunger strike. He's articulated his support with BDS as a nonviolent strategy against apartheid. Don't get me wrong. But also, I think that he could take more permission in saying this is why I think this.

And I don't have to just quote Israeli scholars. I can also quote Palestinian ones. I don't have to just like say that, you know, like I could say the word Palestine. You know what I mean? Like I think that he has the mandate to do that. And I hope that he, you know, like I don't know what is possible, but I think it's sort of important like I think that is the lesson of the victory

Yeah part what you're saying about like how some of it was like over determined by the like sort of right-wing response the media response and stuff that specifically rings true with people freaking out about his statements about globalized the intifada like I consider the intifada globalized okay this is the thing like funny Lauren Summers freaking out like I am profoundly alarmed about the future of the DNC in the country you know like Epstein associate Larry Summers the guy who famously you know bailed the banks out like singularly responsible his name is synonymous with a rot like failing him Like a Zoran failing to disavow the globalized the intifada slogan

It's like I don't know whenever I see that stuff. It's like I think You know Israel by you know deciding to genocide well over a hundred thousand If not a quarter million people at this point if the numbers are to be believed like that is also Globalizing the Intifada right it's like it's it's whether you like it or not. That's the fucking world We live in now, so I'm sorry, it's been thoroughly globalized. And obviously it's having this effect on democratic politics. I mean, and this is the thing, right? This comes at a very interesting time for the Democratic Party because obviously you've

got a hundred different tendencies and attempts to pull it in a hundred different directions and a lot of the like postmortems and autopsies, you know Monday morning quarterbacking I've read in the New York Times and Politico and others over the last 24 hours are like is This is this gonna be the future of the Democratic Party, right? Like how do we, most of them are written from the position of like, how do we make sure

that this isn't gonna be the future of the Democratic Party? It's not, yeah. Well, or they're like, how do we take the absolutely wrong lessons and talk about the color correction in the videos? Like, you know, just like, it's definitely not, like, it's definitely not like, you know,

saying that you have policies that will help poor people. It's, it's like, oh, he was really good at social media and he like, he played to survey, like it, I'm just like, oh, it's absolutely the wrong, like what they either want to do is say like, how do we make sure this doesn't occur? Or how do we like continue to like suck at the teeth of like the consulting of our consulting fees by like saying we're like social media whisperers like yeah

yeah that's what I've read David chores response was like I swear to God this fucking idiot this must it must have been written by chat GPT. Zora and Mom Dani is a great example of how far you can go if you genuinely center your campaign in an engaging way around the issue that voters overwhelmingly say in surveys they care the most about. Okay, I'm sorry. This is actually what I'm quoting

because I spent like maybe an hour like in a rage about this because it, it like, as I said, he changed the number one issue. What it shows is that like organizing and like you can change what people think is important. That's fucking politics, you idiot. You don't chase people into the fucking gutter. Like they just love the gutter. Just say you wanna be in the gutter.

Like this is the Madaglacias thing It's just like just say you hate trans people and go just say you hate us and go You're exactly right Tracy that's spot-on this is what I was talking about like with the ripping the band-aid off about like Israel and it's just like the reason that I've compared it so many times to the abolitionist movement is because you have to you have to start from a position that like Palestine is the like red line like that's the that is the moral Cause of our time if I mean luckily. I'm not like a strict materialist, so I get to believe in moral causes

But like I it's a it's the moral cause of our time and so like you know you have to start from that position and Therefore if you're gonna have an abolitionist, you know movement if you're gonna try to harness that energy like you're right You can't drive it into the gutter, but even it like on an even on an even more like minute level like the thing about like rent real in like tenants really like is fascinating to me because the What I've just kept coming back to over and over again in the last five years really Like I was talking to my brother the other day and he lives in Albuquerque and he was telling me he was like dude He was like I moved to Albuquerque in 2018

He was like my wages have gone up every year that I've lived here, but my rent has gone up faster than my wages have gone up. Like I'm literally, like I'm about to have to move. And he was like, and no one seems to be addressing this. And so this is my thing. It's just like, you can either accept that, that like people, that like the that tenants aren't gonna go away

because the landlords keep hiking the fucking rent up. And that is a situation where you, where if you let it stew for too long, it's gonna go beyond just like tenant unions. It's going to become a pitchfork situation. And the thing is, and you can try to drive people into the gutter, you're right, through this stuff with abundance

or through zoning regulations. That's what the abundance is. It's so that people don't form tenant unions and demand more from their fucking landlords. That's all it is. It's just trying to dissipate the anger. And I guess my message to the landlords is like, we're not going away, I'm sorry you're gonna have

to fucking get over it Well, I mean and it's like, you know, and I think that the I mean it's interesting right because I think Zoran's campaign ultimately like his platform tried to negotiate between this idea of like Okay, we're like, you know the idea that like we need more housing is like, I mean, on the one hand, true, like we need more dwelling space that people can actually afford. But on the other hand, it's so dominant in the like discourse

and has been sort of overtaken by like, by people whose alignment is to the real estate industry and not ultimately to tenants, because effectively their strategy will produce a city in which rents go down less quickly. Rents go up less quickly. And not, you know, like, but you know, so what he tried to do, which I think like was fairly smart,

is say like, how do you put the public sector in control of development? You can make a commitment to build housing like New York City's HPD is the largest municipal developer of housing in the country. And so he was like, what if we quadruple the budget? You know, you pay people union labor and you get three times as much housing. Like, that's the strategy. And so you like, I think that there's a way that he tried to navigate that and like, um, that puts the public sector in the driver's seat because that's actually who's going to produce the kind of housing we need. I mean, I think that it just sucks that we're in this like evacuated political discourse where like, I have to

like think about the goddamn Elizabeth Street Garden and like people and like so my politics, right? Like tenant unionist politics are associated with the fucking like, Patty Smith saved the dry cleaner, like the Elizabeth Street Garden that was built in 2003. Like it is 2003 again. Like get the fuck over it. Like, I don't know. Like it's just like, and so that,

and that's really frustrating that the people who are like, you know, the people who get to own this idea of like people deserve places to live are like in the pocket of real estate. And I think that like, for me, the way to negotiate that question is to say like, you know, like, okay, like, you know, one of the other candidates in this race,

in the race was Zellnor Myrie, who was like, like his, he was like, we're gonna build a million homes. But it was like by inviting the private market to do that. And then it gets printed as like, that's his housing plan. No, it's a fucking invitation. And like, no one's gonna fucking RSVP to a party that's gonna crash like your own, like you're not gonna go to like, sorry,

this metaphor is really disintegrating in real time, apologies, but like, no one's gonna fucking build enough housing to tank their own property values. Like it's just not like, stop trying to make that happen. It's just not going to happen. And so like, I think that he did a good job of like, you know, of dealing with the like nightmare that that discourse is.

And I think that like, maybe there is a way, you know, it's like he in his like speech at the rally that I went to that like AOC was that like, he used the word abundance, but like he just talked, you know, it's like he in his like speech at the rally that I went to that like AOC was that like he used the word abundance, but like he just talked, you know, it was like, but like, that's our job. Like, that's the role of the state. Like, yeah, and I think that, and yeah, and I think that that actually does. I mean, it's frustrating when his, you know, when his policy gets put next to someone like Zellnord,

and one of them you can actually be responsible to make happen. And the other one is just like, you just throw up your hands and go like, woo, woo, like, I don't know, I sent out all the invites. Why did no one come to my birthday party? So sad. Like, you know, like, but like, but I feel like the hope is that, and it's also about, I think, you know, making a clear making the alignment clear is that like, who is the state supposed to work for? Is it supposed to work for, you know, working people or is it supposed to work

to enrich landlords? And so, yeah, I think I think he did a really good job at threading that line. And like my like I'm I am like I guess I will just like never like like will we ever get out of like the yimmy? I'm just like like I did Elizabeth Street Garden win I can't even do I like I just you know what just like someone just like occupy Elizabeth Street Garden but like not so that it gets to stay like I but like the fact that but like everyone Thinks that that's what I want, you know, and I'm just like they built it in 2003 like get over it like what is it? What does it do? It honestly there are just statues there and like people eat like lunch from sweet green like literally like people like take their goddamn

sweet green and like sit next to like like statues you say statues that look like statuary that like Like you know like statuary that's like fabricated to look antique, but is actually like from 2002 it's not like Trump's Garden of American heroes. There's not is there like a million You've not heard of Trump's garden John Wayne and Kobe Bryant stand shoulder to shoulder Yeah, he wants to be wants to make a garden of American heroes in like South Dakota or some shit Where they make statues of all the American like Abe Lincoln is he gonna be the biggest statue there

He says no right now, but just like in the future It's the place there's obviously gonna be saved like one big plinth You know in the center, but like everyone's just gonna be like no no that's just the empty plan I don't know who put that there Empty plinth that's a good word by the way plinth We don't this is like the this is like, you know, like I more than it This is my former life emerging, you know, like when I used to write about art Why like I was I was like it's so good that the communists got me

Otherwise I would otherwise I would still be doing that. I don't know. What a fucking nightmare. What a waste yeah, you could be contracted out by the dogeified national endowments for the arts to do a plinth design. To make like, yeah, plinth. It would be like a public-private partnership activation of Elizabeth Street Garden. That's what I would be. Let me tell you. That's what I would say.

That's that's like the path not travel. Thank God. Well, I mean, like, you know, so I think we've covered a lot of the bases here, but I guess maybe to start like tying this up a little bit like if you know obviously like I open the New York Times this morning and you know read countless articles like as donors work against Bambani top Democrats stop short of backing him and you know this talks about like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries it is

fascinating I just want to say like also comparing him against Chuck Schumer and and Hakeem Jeffries like Tom made a point the other day and I guess I hadn't even thought about it But like no, I don't even think about the Democrats anymore like like Jeffries and Schumer like I like genuinely they're so far out of sight and out of mind that like they don't even Intermine like conscious thought Hakeem Jeffries did like a live stream the other day that got 83 viewers. I would kill myself, thanks.

83. I would kill myself, thanks. No really, I would, I'd walk into the ocean. If I was supposed to be the opposition to, you know, what they've been bitching about and crouching fascism and all that, and I could garner 83 warm bodies to watch me blovey

I would end it today. Alyssa slot can try to do one of those and got like a hundred and two yeah I mean like they're they're cooked like no one. It's what just on a human level. It's not inspiring all right It's just not inspiring stuff that they're selling that they're not that they're pitching Not inspiring stuff that they're selling that they're that they're pitching But also just to go back to what I was saying a second ago It is a real material need to have housing and to have a little bit of money Leftover at the end of every month for for a little bit of fun. I was listening to the radio today The country hits 98.5 this guy has this woman on and he's like, what would you do with a thousand extra dollars? And she's like, oh, I don't know. I'd probably catch up on my bills and he's like, oh yeah

Not on a vacation or anything like that like pit two people are not well It's just I mean and this is what I'm talking about like if you speak to that in a meaningful In an original and actually compelling way that shows that you actually give a shit. People will respond in kind, and maybe, you know, maybe you're not win immediately. But I think the point is, it's what's just, the fact that this comes now, of all times, is very fascinating, because again, you've got this thing with the Democrats being like, what's the way forward, how do we do this? And the answer is right in front of them. it's right the fuck in front of them but no but they don't want that to be the answer because they don't want that to be the answer you know and it's like I don't like

when I was at one of the like DSA like like what turned out to be a victory party. And like it was the Democratic Socialists of America, like doing the literal dubka, like doing the Palestinian dubka in celebration of this victory. And like, I think that is their fucking worst nightmare, actually, is that the party is led by the Democratic Socialists of America, who are like in solidarity with Palestine. And, you know, but it was beautiful. And, you know, I think that, yeah, I think that, you know, this is like, Bernie just like put out an op-ed in The Guardian, like precisely about this,

like will they like learn the right lessons or will they like listen to the consultants that tell you know, like And I you know, it's like it really does feel in a lot of ways Like this is the first time that I've felt like we're not just like waiting around for them to die You know like Chuck Schumer gets hospitalized after the Zoran win and I'm like his first victory It's not even the first hundred days and like like he already said, she were to the hospital. Like way to fucking go. Like he just, the man had a heart attack.

Like let's fucking go. Like I don't know. You know? It makes you feel a little less vulnerable. That's the thing. Like that's kind of what I've been feeling like over the last six months. Like kind of like the walking dead.

I've expressed that to many people multiple, not like I'm trying to center myself or make it about me I'm just like I mean like the left I've kind of felt like we're just sort of like the walking day like dead man walking right like oh Shit like we're just waiting for the next shoe to drop and it kind of it's it's empowering a win is empowering You have to take that Yeah, and I think you really have to take it all the way. Like I feel like there's, you know, it's like obviously like one of the first things that the New York Times prints is like some like someone, you know, is another like a like

Jewish New Yorkers, like literally someone calling it a spiritual crystal knot. And I'm like, you like, I'm like that it is honestly one of the most grotesque phrases that like a person could come up with right like and this is the thing that then is on like the header like when you go to their app it's the front page of the app like not like Zoran victory it's how does Zoran victory make Zionists feel and and it's like they're like own hallucinations you know and I mean it's like it's absolutely grotesque and then I think like you know? And I mean, it's like, it's absolutely grotesque. And then I think like, you know, and that also makes me, you know, just like, whatever,

maybe I spend too much time on the internet, like looking at the like, killjoy ultra thing of like, either these policies will never happen. And I'm like, well, you're just doing the right wing narrative or the like, what about the contradictions of the socialists in charge of the police? And I'm like, totally, that is a really important contradiction. But one thing they could do and is arrest Netanyahu, which he said he would do. Yeah, like he said, he said he would do that. So a socialist in charge of the police could in fact arrest Netanyahu.

That would be pretty cool to me. Like that is one way we could deal with that contradiction. I don't know. And I agree with you. I think, you know, I feel like I got up the next day and I was like, oh, like one of the campaigns that's happening in New York that I'm really excited about is there are these tenants who are organizing against Pinnacle, which is like one of the largest companies traded on the Israeli stock exchange. Like the theory of

this company is that they raised money in Israel and they use it to profit off of people's housing in New York. Majority like predominantly in disinvested housing in black and brown neighborhoods and their plan was to destabilize these buildings. And so they're basically just milking them like, like they are like completely neglected and people are treated like shit. And like the idea that I woke up in the morning and was like,

this organizing process could have like, could have could see in the state like, you know, like could see support in the state. You know, there are going to be various times in this campaign where that could happen. And I feel like to me, that's really like the, you know, like to go back to the sappy thing that I like can't get out of my head is like, what if you had permission to believe? Like, OK, like then I would think about like this campaign in a way that could leverage the state to return these buildings to the tenants or to like actually invest in their housing or like, you know, this idea that like and it's and I think that that's like that's for me, that's like part of actually committing to the victory is like, it's not, right?

It's not just waiting for this person to save us. It's like, what does this person allow us? What does this person allow us to organize for that we never would get otherwise? And like, that's also so exciting to me. Yeah. I mean, it reminds me of, there's this guy, I did a radio story like over 10 years ago now, but this guy, he passed away about 15 years ago, this Eastern Kentucky anti-mountain

top removal activist named Joe Begley, who ran for sheriff and got elected sheriff and used his position to literally like arrest coal operators. Like he would, he would, he would like, yeah, he would like pull up the sheriff and used his position to literally like arrest coal operators like he would he would He would like yeah He would like pull up the sheriff's cars and like stop coal come likes coal trucks from accessing strip mines And it's just like yeah, I mean yeah, it says there There is the kind of also blowing up in loaders and dump trucks yeah like that too yeah exactly It was black panthers in blackie Kentucky. Yeah, it was he was a radical fucking dude but like yes yeah I want to listen to this program yeah yeah but like you've got the contradiction

there right of yeah you're right like a socialist or a radical like overseeing the police but it's like that contradiction is basically what we make of it, and I personally, like, what I tend to take from this is, once again, just one more, you know, piece of proof, along with the 2024 election, that people don't fucking support genocide, and they want their fucking cost of living to go down. They want to be able to afford to live and not be ground into fucking dust. And like, and this is just another thing to prove that. How it shakes out, again, that is all up to us, but you can't deny that like the people's voice is being, you know, it's being shouted out. And so I think that that's the thing that you take away from it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think just that thing, you know, just like looking at the breakdown and being like, okay, so like the,

the theory of the campaign was always to like make those new coalitions and to like animate people who had like been, who had like given up on the political process or never participated and like and it and it paid off. And I think that that you know like that that is the like that that was the theory of the campaign that that worked. You know I and I you know it was sweet. They had the most money in New York City history in a super PAC, $25 million spent to make him look bad. And what his line on that was, was like, they have the money and we have you.

That will bring a goddamn tear to my eye. We have you, you know? Like that will bring a goddamn tear to my eye, you know? Like, and that, and just like, you know, I will say that like in so many phases of the campaign, like we did this like slightly insane fundraiser for like what I refer to as at-risk adults, like the downtown set that like could go either way, you know what I mean?

And like, you know, the the like social suffusion of of his campaign there and then like being out like in a hundred degree weather, like let us not forget the mandate of heaven that was brought by the heat wave, which is basically a contest on enthusiasm. Like that's like a refer. God gave us a referendum on enthusiasm. And so like, and there were people. How bad do you want it?

And like, and the truth is people wanted it so bad. They were like, I was like driving water to pole sites where there were like two volunteers, like at every pole site, just standing there in the fucking heat, waiting to talk to people because they wanted something better for them and they wanted something better for the stranger that they were about to meet, you know, and like, I, yeah, like, I think that I think that it's been a long time since I've like, yeah, I think that, you know, a lot of us are like are old now and guarded against that kind of political belief. And I think it's great that we were all proven wrong.

It's great when the cynics are proven wrong. I think that it, you know, and then when we get more evidence for saying when we fight, we win, like that, like we can like, that's like, I don't think we know like what that's going to make possible in the future. And I guess maybe I'm speaking a little bit as if he already won, which he did not. It's going to be like, again, like the Democratic ticket against the end anti-Semitism ballot line, which, and like, I'm sure that Eric Adams or like a new like write-in candidate that they pull from, you know, Bill Ackman's ass is like the like, you know, like that there is still a fight to win and I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to deny that but I do think that the like yeah that like that is what the victory I don't know I I think I'm like I what else is there to

say like I love winning yeah I think at this point we're kind of at with it is that at this point, I think forcing the issue of basically having a candidate run against the eat your rights, stop anti-Semitism line, the pro-Zionist line, if they lose, I don't think it's one of those things where, well, if you know, if you lost, you tried whatever, and like, we should, you know, accept that or like just be fine with that. I think it's like the 2024 election. I think it exposes certain things about the system that like, if you're trying to build a new movement around this issue around around us, or constellation of issues, you kind of have to like show everybody a sort of power map right you have to show them like word power lies and how it's distributed and how it's reproduced and I feel like the 2024

election really did that in many ways and I feel like if say Zoran does lose this election in November which I mean I hope I hope to God that doesn't happen. But like, if he does, like, having that be the campaign again, like, Elie Wiesel's son, like, fucking, saying he's the next Hitler, I mean, like, that's the kind of like, shit I was talking about a second ago, it's like, the more they protest and the more they like, say everybody is Hitler and all this stuff, it's like.

Like, they doth protest too much. Yeah, it placed into our hands. And that's what I'm saying, it's like drawing them off sides this way is like the, in my opinion, like this is a marathon, not a sprint. Like just, even if we lose a few here and there, like we are trying to build something

over the next decade or so. And so, I don't know, I mean, like you're right. Like we are trying to build something over the next decade or so. And so I don't know. I mean, like, you're right. Like, important not to get ahead of ourselves. Important not to get like too far afield. But yeah, take the win for what it is and, you know, let it inspire you. And like you said a second ago, let it give you permission to dream. Like, I think that's a good way to put it. I really do. I just like you know

Call it corny or cringe or whatever, but like what other fucking options you have at this point It's just like either dream or you know you're gonna get like black-bagged anyways like you might as well So I don't know it's just Anyways, um I think that's probably a good place to end it Any any final thoughts though on any of this before we before we depart? Anyways, I think that's probably a good place to end it. Any final thoughts though on any of this before we depart? No, all right. Heart's mind's clear.

Yeah, well Tracy can't lose. That's right. That's right. Thank you so much Tracy for joining us. Oh this rocks, it was great talking to you. Of course, do you have anything you want to plug these days? Oh, well, everyone should still buy my book, because that's the thing about a book,

is that once you've written it, it exists forever. Like a blessing and a curse, which is called abolish rent. And it was put out by Haymarket. So I want to plug that. And yeah, if you're in New York, I would like to plug getting involved in the Zoran campaign or in your local tenant union Hell, yeah, please do all of those things. Please go buy Tracy's book We did an episode about it that was highly regarded and people really liked it So I go back and listen to that as well

And then obviously go check us out on patreon. We have plenty of content over there for you the listener So please go check that out Thanks for listening everybody Tracy. We'll have you back on very soon Love to all right. We'll see you next time. Thanks, Tracy. Adios. Shh. I'm going to go ahead and close the video. Thank you.