Episode 406: Performing American Life
00:00buddy i got somethingwe're rollingyeahi got something hot off the presses for youremember when you failed to tell me jimmy swagger to dineoh i know what you're going to say i'm not going to do you that wayi'm going to give you the bud wiser cold hard factshere's the irony i already know exactly you're going to mention and i once again
00:22did you the same way i did you with jimmy swaggeri'd hold it out on me i once again did not tell you that james dobsonand focus on the family.I had to find out from a friend of the show, Sarah Hughes.And you knew it the whole time.You've been in here 30 minutes and didn't even bother to tell me that.I like withholding information from people.It's how I manipulate them.
00:46I get into the heads.Oh, my God.I withhold information.Well, I'll be damn.Well, how does it make you feel your godfather?gone.James Dobson?Yeah.
01:00Focus on the family.Why's he my godfather?I just figured that you're Southern Babb.I figured you would have...We did have...I do remember...We had an outsized influence.I do remember
01:10back in the daywhen you would get thoseJames Dobson,what they werewere cassette tapesand it would come in like this bigpuffy booklet.You know what the fuck of that?
01:24Yeah, yeah.It had like kind of snapped in place.It snapped in place.The cassette tapessnapped in place.Yeah, it felt like,yeah,it was like this little
01:30plastic casing.Yeah,but it was fluffy.It was fluffy.It was fluffy.Yeah,it was puffy.It was like,
01:36what do you call that?I got moreout of the puffy casethan I did the actual tapes.Very satisfyingto open one of those.Yeah,and also to squeeze
01:46the outside of it.If you can find a puffy tape case,I recommend you just get itfor nothing else.It doesn't matter what's insidejust to squeeze it.Yeah.I don't remember a single thing
01:56from James Dobsonfocus on the future.family.Really?I remember my parentslived with theconsequences of hisThat's true.
02:02I'm not focused on the family.You've clearly not focusedon the family adequately.Now you are,I guess.All the oldall the old timers are dying off,huh?
02:16Yeah.James Dobson,Jimmy Swagger.Yeah.It kind of makes youwell,seeing what they're beingreplaced by.
02:25I know,dude.That's,we thought we hadit bad then.A bunch of,Robertson diedjust a few years ago, didn't he?
02:33He's been dead a little while.Who else?Poor Robert's been dead a while.Yeah, we thought we had it bad then.We didn't know how good we had itwith the 700 Club and Focus on.Listen, 10 to 1, I'll tell you this.I'll tell you this, you know, there's been a lot of talk
02:49of the generational differencesof the past couple weeks, not only in the discourse,but I floated it on this program.but if you were a young person out there now and the sort of like religious right-wing zealotsof your day are people that believe in interdimensional beings in Innocuan magicyou have it far worse than I did where it was just guys that were scamming shut-ins for cashyeah yeah yeah I kind of miss I kind of miss the TV preacher Huxter compared to what we got nowyeah yeah this is
03:26pretty bad. Like, because now they're all into, well, it's, I mean, they're millenarian in a waythat that old crowd would not have been. Like, I know they sold products for the apocalypse,like Jim Baker's, you know, doomsday seeds. But, like, I don't think they actually wanted itto come. Whereas I think that Mike Huckabee literally wants a nuclear Armageddon. Yeah, it's,you can imagine a world where, like, uh, James Dobson and all.all the old heads or all the heads are like bringing them together me like huck like we don'treally we're leveraging the fear of that to make money and huck's like no we got to breedthe red heifer you know like just dead-eyed saca yeah yeah did you ever watch huck on
04:17kenneth copeland program back when he was running for when was he running for president like 08or something like that oh i'm pretty sure it was oh eight and i think he also ranNo, he was in that McCain race?I think so.He didn't get out of the primary, obviously,because the Straight Talk Expressran his big ass over.But didn't he also run 16?
04:37He could have.Sorry.That sounds right.Now he's just God's faithful,faithful emissary to God King Donald Trump.But he used to be onKenneth Copeland's programdoing pseudo history.
04:52Oh.Talking about, like,talking about like,um,you know, uh, transparently, um, sort of, um, allegorical, biblical things as if they actuallyhappened in history.Hmm.Like treating like Washington's crossing the Delaware with the same, um, you know, uh, veracity as, uh, Jonah in the
05:19belly of the whale.Okay.I remember, I was just talking about this the other day.Um, I'm sure I've told this on the,program on the program before but um when i the reason i stopped going to a southern baptist churchin high school i was like in 10th or 11th grade i remember in sunday school one day i was just likewell we don't actually believe that everything in the bible happened exactly as it's written rightlike just statistically speaking like there's no way that a book written 2,000 years
05:56ago would have the honestto God exact events as theyhappened, right? And everybodyin the class looked at me like I hadtaken a shit on the floorand done like a satanic ritual or something.That girl you like just rolled her eyesand she just walked past you instead of
06:12like flirting with you a little bit. Yeah, they were aghast.They were like, no, that's what we believe, yeah.I was like, oh,all right.After that, I started to go intomy friend's dad's churchin like a garage.I started going to like garage church.
06:29That's kind of punk rock church.Not non-denominational.Yeah.You went underground.You went underground.Yeah, yeah.Listen, if you are a former Sigma Chi who now works for SunTrust Bank as a loan officer,and you're living in the suburbs of Montclair or Memphis or Montgomery or wherever,
06:53the SEC school you attended as their third largest city in that state is not dissiminedwhat we're doing here and you know you married like a travel nurse or a or hopefully a librarianyeah not that there's anything wrong with any of those professions i'm not saying i'm justpainting you the an archetype here okay well i would a librarian librarians are usually kind inI'm not intending for a librarian to catch a stray hereor a travel nurse to catch a stray or even a loan officerA travel nurse can catch a little bit of a little bit of scab sorryThey're kind of like scabs
07:33They scabs, they scab a little bitOkay, well if this takes a negative toneAnd if I know myself it willI willI'll take the library now this equation, okayI took umbrage with the inclusion of the libraryI admit no disrespectI've had many
07:48Every librarian I've ever known has been the best personif you want if you could say bookkeepernot my mother was a bookkeeperI can't do that well not for a not for like apublic not for like a townmunicipality what's a badgive me a badtraditionally
08:04myth dealer yeaha mythokay wellhere's all I'm sayinga secretary for an accountantwhatever whatever job you haveokayand let's say you go home
08:19for molding young minds orwhatever it is you do for a living and your husband comes in from SunTrust bank he's got thepunch and the old miss golf haircut that's receded about two inches up the skull uh-huh he's justcoming back from his morning dalliance with his mistress well i don't want to get in all thati'd probably just play golf with his fraternity brothers uh i don't know i'm i like to paint alittle bit more of a lurid picture well i'm not trying to go too lurid here let me let me justI don't even remember the original point.And you've got a golden retriever
08:56and two and a half kids and you've got it alive.Okay.And you go home.And that husband comes in from whatever he's doing.Whether that's having an affairor playing golf with his fraternity brothers.And you look that man in the eyeand you brought life into this world
09:13with a man that believes with his whole,whole heart.That's what we're talking about.that the rapture's coming.That a man actually was swallowed by a fish.That a man was swallowed by a fish.That, you know,you know,
09:31a man was,somebody was turned to salt,a pillar of salt.That's tasty.Yeah.That.He probably honestly thinks the great horror of Babylon is going to be like an actual.Sexy.
09:47He's jerks.Sexy cryptid.going to come and you know and not like an allegory for the rod at the heart of the american empireas i tend to view it if my you know yeah liberal interpretations of liberation theologywhat my overall greater point here is that otherwise normal ass people have some insane viewsabout what comes next yeah you know i wonder if that pillar of salt was like pink himalayan saltor just like kind of likeYou just turn to salt
10:18And you're likeYour family dog comes upAnd gets a littleYeah yeah yeahLike bigWas it chunkyChunkyChunky salt
10:25Or was it like that fineTable saltWest VirginiaYeahArtisanal HimalArtisanal Himalayan saltWellYou know
10:34But if you really think aboutIt's not just the ChristiansFor time immemorialWe've been making upSome wild stuffOr a pillar of meth rocksMedusaOh yeah
10:43MedusaWith seduce youAnd turn you intostone. That's not very different fromPillar of Salt, even though the circumstancesare different. That's true. Medusawas a Gorgon.She was a Gorgon. Or Gorgon.
10:55Yeah. I'm not sure what that is, honestly.It's some kind of beast. It's like Typhon?Or Python.Typhon and Python are interchangeable.I'll send you some literature.On the sub... On the Gorgans?On the Gorgans. I have a little experiencewith that. Yeah.
11:12Yeah, people believe in some weird stuff.Well, and the thing is,It's like, you know, we're all trying to make sense of our own failed finite existence.So why couldn't you be turned into a mineral, a big slab of something?Lithium salts.Lithium.And then everybody would be chilled, man, when they come around.Yeah, they come around to eat you and they're chill.
11:31Yeah, and then they just levels them out.That's a service.That is a service.Well, anyway, the people that believe those things with their whole heart have shaped our lives in immeasurable ways.Yeah.They're now in charge.Well, they always kind of have beenYeah, you're right
11:48They always kind of have beenDo you think the Xerxes of the worldReally believed in the Persian deityWell, I don't knowIt's hard to sayAt the height of American EmpireI really don't think that George BushAnd Reagan did
12:03Because he was a fucking moronBut like George BushAnd the Richard NixonLike the Republicans of yesteryearWeren't really religious peopleNot super nowwhat was they were what was nixon was he any of quaker yeah i think he was a quaker yeah yeah which isinteresting yeah for a republic god damn it god damn queers he didn't absorb all the lessons at
12:34the mating house seems i saw that dr phil is in trouble for he's in hot water he is in hot waterDr. Phil accused of massive fraud scheme by world's largest Christian TV network.You don't say.Man, man, man, man, isn't it?Yeah, it really is.He over-promised and under-delivered, quote-unquote.In a more than...I didn't put that on my headstone.
13:01Tom Sexton, over-promised and under-delivered.In a more than half a billion-dollar contract that he struck with Trinity Broadcast Network,after leaving CBS in 2023.According to the complaint,Phil McGrath's production companyreiterated numerous representationsrelated to the then-current advertising revenueproduct integrations production costs
13:23and viewership of the Dr. Phil show.He then used false figuresto convince Trinity Broadcasting Networkto pay him $20 million up frontand $50 million a year for a decadeto produce 160 new episodes of Dr. Phil.So he moved Dr. Phil to TBN.Yeah.
13:41And I guess it's just not really getting the viewership or...Who would have guessed that?Nobody actually watches that shit anymore, I guess.Like, your viewership, your median viewership moving from whatever daytime show you were on with, like, Oprah, what was that?Like, CBS affiliate or something?To TBN.It's like your average age goes from like 45 to like 73 instantly.Yeah, he's, I guess that's why he's going on ice raids.
14:11and stuffbecause likeno onewatchesDr.Bill.Yeah,dude.
14:19Season my wingsand I'll learnhow to fry.I just came upwith thatjust name.Is that likeVanessa Carlton?
14:30She's makingfried chicken.Do youbuy a tromboneor somethingon your way here?I tried to buy it.I went and
14:39checked outtrumpets insaxophone.trying to decide which one I want to learn.You go left, I'm about a cornet.But get you a cornet.Why, cornet?I want to trumpet.
14:48Well, a lot of people probably come there and like ask for a trumpet.Yeah.How many people are in there like, hey, man, I need a good cornet.When I was in a high school band, I feel like people that played the cornet were like lesser than.I mean, I'm just kidding.I mean, it was like a trumpet was more of a tenor instrument, whereas a cornet is like a second tenor.Right?Is that a good analogy?
15:12I ain't getting it.I ain't waiting.That's like basically like, I remember, I remember making this joke off, offbeat.Before I really got into jazz, I feel like I'm doing the thing where, you know,a man gets into jazz, ages into jazz at a certain point.You're getting into jazz.Why you look so surprised?Go for it, man.
15:33You should do that.I'm going to get into physical media, too.I'll just go ahead and warn you what's coming for me.You're getting into Jazz L.Listen, I'm getting into Jazz LPs.I'm getting into Criterion.Oh, man.DVDs?
15:47Maybe Blu-Race.Don't do that.No, I'm going physical media.I've earned it.I've got patina, man.Look at me.What else am I going to do?I mean, you should, if you want my two cents.
16:03I'm asking.Jazz is, I can't even say it.I was going to say bullshit.You think jazz is bullshit?okay hold a second is this is this one of those takes where you just want toi just want to piss people off okay that sounded like a terence ray antagonistic like whenyou said bluegrass sucked in front of the most ardent bluegrass heads imaginablei guffawed when you said that at a bluegrass show i don't know what's wrong with me
16:33what do i do this the thing is i know you don't i know you like jazz i do likeI like jazz, yeah.So jazz for you,for thee, but nothing for you, but none for thee, or whatever.Jazz for me, but not for thee.You're gatekeeping jazz.I'm gay keeping jazz, yeah.People don't understand it like you do.
16:57I wonder what was more controversial.Your librarian take or my cornet take?I immediately walked it back.The entire time you were winking at me, like,I'm not walking it back.This is my true genuine belief.Don't believe it.This man is full of deceit.
17:12It's my incontented belief.I slid you a note across the couch that I actually feel this way.I'm saying not because I don't want to cancel, but I actually feel this one.Uh-huh.Do you remember a school librarian that changed your life?No.No?No.
17:37No, I don't think I...Okay.Hold a second.are you one of the more well-read people I knowand there's not a single librarianchanged your line.No.Really?
17:46I mean, I like the librarians inWeitzburg at the Harry Cottle Memorial Library.Yeah.They were nice.Yeah.I mean, like a school librarian,like, set you on your way earlier.Lina?
17:56Remember Lina?Lina T-D-D-D-D-L.Yeah, of course.She was the goat.Yeah, she's the shit.Well, she's the, yeah, the Ku de Grave,the queen of the species.Mm-hmm.
18:08That goes without sale.but no growing up noI didn't need thatI was like I'm gonna read my own booksI'm gonna go my own wayI don't needone day I'm gonna sayBluegrass and jazz suck
18:22and just piss people off manwhen I gotI tried to read all quiet on the western frontwhen I was like 10 or 11and I did notI could not understand it at allI mean it's probably pretty straightforward nowa bit.
18:42It's probably prettypretty between the lines nowadays.Then, that was a big one.I don't remember any librarians, no.None.No, I don't.I can tell you the name of every librarian.What?
18:57Yeah.Why?Miss Fields.I have something I have to apologize for her for.I stole a copy of curses, hexes, and spells by Daniel Cohen right under her nose.Damn.You stole a book from the library?Not only that,
19:12Nana was,she was also a sheriff's deputy.So she could have went,hold the,nowadays she would have,wasted your ass.She would have caught me stealing a book.She would have shot.
19:24You stole a book from the library?Not only that,a child's how-to guide to witchcraft.What?Yeah,I was interested in spells and things.Damn, dude.That's not like in a,
19:34unforgivable, really.Not like in a way where I was like,I want to do the spell.but I just wanted to see some creepy shit.Is there nothing sacred anymore?Kids just can still from libraries, have phones in schools,talking movie theaters.Well, I saw it.
19:50My family's tax contributions,which I think we didn't even have a tax burdenuntil I was probably in high school.Went toward that, you know?I mean, technically probably not rightbecause it's property taxes, right?Yeah, I think so, yeah.We lived in public health.
20:08made no money.Oh, man.My mother raised several childrenon $13,000 a year and I ain't do that.Yeah.Anyway.It's because she was a G.Well, figured it out.
20:24Yeah.I mean, the debate, speaking ofchildren in schools,the debate currently ragingthe salons this weekis, should we allow phones inschools i don't think we should allow listen i i'm i tell you man i've gotten old and crotchied in the lastcouple weeks yeah just in the last couple yeah what happened what happened a couple weeks you
20:52nothing nothing in particular oh you turn 40 that's just the passage of terence the heavy handof time comes forever you turn 40 and immediately can't i did man i said as soon as i turned 40 iI was like, we got to go analog.We got to walk all this shit back now.Yeah.We got to open up Blockbuster again.You know, the normal things.Everybody bemoans the physical media now.
21:16bemoans the passing of it.The unfortunate thing is it's not coming back, brother.No, I know it's not.Oh, okay.I know it's not.I'm going to choose to live in the 80s, though.Oh.I'm making the choice to live in a nostalgia trip.
21:29Okay.All right.That's something that'll happen to you too one of these daysand you turn forward.Yep, 10 years from now when I turned 40.Yep.I'm so happy I'm only 30.Yeah, man, that's...
21:41I'm so happy, I'm such a young boy.Yeah, you are, man.Got your whole life ahead of you.I don't think...I got into jazz when I was like 18.Oh, okay.John Coltrane.Okay, what was your, what was your on track?
21:58I really liked John Coltrane.And, uh, Cannonball Adder's,What do you know about cannonball alley?You're a cannonball guy.Yeah.Yeah.Okay, wait, this gets back to why I wanted to learn trumpet or saxophone.I can't decide.
22:13You don't have kind of a Bill Evans quality to you.Do you?Kind of like one of those nerdy white guys that everybody just kind of fucks with a little bit.Yeah.It's me.A nerdy white guy that everybody fucks with a little bit.Well, at a certain point, you're going to have to start wearing a pencil mustache and kind of dressing a little lush and questionable straight.Interesting.
22:34But for the time being, you're doing good.I'm currently wearing like five-inch seam shorts that go up to my dick and balls.Call me when you get those to about a three-and-a-half.Wouldn't you say, dude, there's no way I can do a three-and-a-half inch seam.Oh, you can.No.Might not be made for TV, but you can.Dude, no.
22:52The older you get, the saggier your balls get.Like at Tom Selleck, Magnum P.I.Well, he's probably had like a scrotum tuck or something.Also, you won't hear something weird?He's probably younger than us when he did that, even though he was.Even though he looks 10 years older than us.I just refuse to believe that his...Look, as you get older, your balls really do hang lower.
23:13They just...Had noticed that part of aging, yeah.You've not noticed that part of aging?My shit's tout as hell.What?You're just tout as hell.Yeah.What?
23:23Yeah.It's like a leathery cocoon.Like in that movie, The Abyss.Like on the abyss.Yes.That's what my ball seconds like.That's what's your shit's like.I don't know.
23:40It's gravity, man.They fall, they, they get pulled down.Maybe it's because my nuts are massive.And maybe you have little tiny baby balls.That's why your shit's taught.That's, you know, big potatoes make me look small, you know.Look, I'm, the reason I want to learn trumpetered saxophone is because,I read this study
24:05that said that theheadline of it wasresearch findsthat the ancient practiceof blowing on a conch shellcan improve sleep apneaand so I gotI got a conch shell
24:22and I've been blowing on it every dayyou've been listening to Lex Friedmanand Andrew Huberman haven't you?I've been blowing on the conchel every dayyou're going back to ancient Greek methodsof trying to...I think apnea is probably a Greek word, isn't it?Yeah, this is how desperate I am.
24:39I'll try anything.I'll try anything.And they said that...And so I blow on the conch shell every day,but the problem of blowing on a cont shell every day...Other than the optics.Other than you announcing to the neighborhoodthat a madman is next door.
25:00A totally chill island time guy.Yeah.He's next door.That's exactly what I was thinking.An island time guy.The problem of blowing on a conch shell every day is that there's only like two notes you can play.There's not a whole lot of variation.It's just one.
25:20It's not like playing the cornet or something like that.No, that's what.And so I looked into it and it was like really playing any woodwind, wood or brass instrument is probably good for your OSA, your obstructive sleep apnea.obstructive.Yeah, because it helps.Is that the bad?I thought you didn't have the bad one.Central sleep apnea is the bad one, I think.
25:39That's when the signals don't signal.That's when the signals don't signal.That seems like bad, because it seems like you'd probably just get diagnosed when you die.I shouldn't laugh at that.I pastored out of that when I was a young boy.Speaking of Dobson.Yeah.Speaking of James Dobson?
25:56Yeah.Did he like James Dobson?He didn't.I don't think he disliked him.Oh, okay.He was in concert.As a matter of fact, that man told, the first time I ever heard the phrase,you know who the most discriminated group in America is right now, don't she?
26:10He took me aside when I turned 12 and told me that white men were the most discriminatedagainst group in America.Dude, this was in, well, that'd been, 97.97, great year.Man, listen, I went, I got Jay Z's Volume 2.A lot of good albums came out in 97.Janet Jackson, the Velvet Rope.That's 97, baby.
26:35Good one.Third Eye Blind.What else was 97?No, wait, hold on a second.97 would have been Jay-Z.I've been September 98 is when Equimini, Volume 2.There was a big release date.I think September 14th, 1998 was a big release date for music.
26:54Yeah.97 would have been like...Like, hum?I've been like Black Street.Remember the band Hum?Hum.You never listened to Hum?Oh, wait.
27:09That's Millennial Cringe.Never mind.You think I'm against the whole winner prize.No, not you.Not you.Oh.You did Millennial Crunch.I did it?
27:20Did you?Is that what you were saying?I think I just did it.It's millennial cringe.Maybe.They might have been.I feel like Everclear was a big band in 97.Well, you know what's funny?
27:29If you listen to music from the 90s,go lookremember the beta bandyeah I'm a proud memberyou never listen to the beta bandoh manthey only put out like one albumand it's like three EPs
27:46but like I love that fucking albumbut go listen to a band like the beta bandor Everclearor any other band really from that timeit's like the music is somuch more relaxedAs opposed to now, like theThe language of the current moment
28:07Is neuroticism, anxietyLike that fucking Doichi song that's everywhereLike, I'm getting anxietyMe, me, me, me.Did I say that name?I thought it was Dochi.Dochi, who's a fucking Doichi?That's pretty embarrassing.
28:25I think the point is, is like,becauseevery interactionis now mediated bysocial media basicallyit means that every interactionis loaded with a metatext, like a meta context
28:42and ain asort of like meta narrativebecause it means thatnobody trusts anybodyto be presenting their true selves.Nobody thinks that anybody is presentingtheir true authentic self. So they
28:57it breeds like neurotic'sand throughout society and anxiety.And so everybody is constantly, like, on edge.Like, listen to all the popular songs of todaycompared to all the popular songs of, like, 1997.I guess the lyrics of those songs in 97 were, like, you know,take Everclear, like, Father of Mine,or, like, Third Eye Blind, the song about Crystal Myth.
29:19Like, it's like...You gotta be more specific.It's depressing, lyrically, but it's...Upbeat, sonically.Sonically.And it's, like, it's couched in, like,kind of just like, like chill vibes, like everything's...Now the rappers aren't even having a good time.
29:35That was a good time genre for a number of years.Now look at them.You're just talking about being like on Xanax and the strip club and being alone at night.Everything's just, yeah, loaded with anxiety and like neuroticism and self-loathing.And again, I attribute it solely to social media.It's our age of anxiety, man.I think so.I think so.
29:57I think that's why they shouldn't let kids have phone.in schools and in circle back to the yeah they should have they should let kids haveguns in school so for sure I think so well um don't you think so uh water pistolswater okay that'd be cool poisons and potions would be poisons every kid should be anecromancer and a potion master well I've been thinking about that a lot since you broughtthat up since you finish Jordano Bruno yeahAnd I think that we are due for like, you know, famously there's an episode of King of the Hill in the original run called The Witches of East Ireland where Bobby gets mixed in with one of these like, which, you know, groups of nerds that like to do spells and stuff.I guess that's kind of what I was, I was a little too into basketball to go full bore into it, but visually I kind of like this stuff.
30:54I was like, ooh, this is fascinating.Anyway, in that episode, you know, Hank pulls him aside and he says, you know, I know you think this is cool right now, but I promise you it isn't.Maybe that's going to flip on its head.Maybe a guy that's a necromancer is going to be getting all the pussy nowadays.I think so, yeah.I saw a headline on, like, popular mechanics yesterday that was like, scientists say that gut feelings could be a result of your consciousness being able topredict the futureand it's it's like
31:28popular mechanics like the websitelike the publication that likedebunked 9-11 you knowthat was like all about likeno no no nothing to see here yeahit's just like jet fuel can meltsteel beams actually uh huhit's just it's like it's
31:45like you're starting to see because there is thisbreakdown of what's consideredrational sciencelike a center of gravity in thescientific world. It's like opening up the space for like more mystical stuff. So like science inthe future is, I mean, I just, I just feel like it would have been inconceivable like 15 years agothat like major mainstream science publications would be publishing quote unquote scientific studiesthat insinuate that the consciousness can
32:25predict the future, that it can bend and warp time and essentially, you know, be able toread the future.Yeah, yeah.Right?Don't you think that's kind of interesting?Is that a vibe shift thing?I think it is a vibe.I think it's more than a vibe shift thing.
32:43I've said it for years.I think thoughts and words are causative.So you agree?You agree with the scientists?It's not so much that I agree with it.I think it warrants more exploration.Oh, okay.More study.
32:56That's good.Yeah.That is good.I agree with that.You know, that's how I would address.I'm going to quit.I've become known for just sort of, well, you were ripping me about this yesterday,and you said that sex and I heard said,
33:13Weapons is the best film ever made.And I said it's the best film of the summer.But for some reason you took that as I think it's the greatest film of all time.And I am known for that sort of those grandiose statements, but now I'm being temperate.Well, and as I told you yesterday, I'm not going to see weapons because I disagree.I won't see any movie with the word weapons in it because I disagree with violence.That's just as a moral stance.A moral stance, yes.
33:46Yeah, if you wanted to pill to more people, you should just call it.Scary stuff.Little kids running to a witch.Yeah.Well, it's hyper-literal titles, you know, snakes on a plane.Yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah.That's what they should want.
34:01Little kids disappear.Yeah.That would have been a great title.Yeah.Speaking of the future and what might be coming,here's two local news stories.I'm not sure if you saw these.Your shit really that's saggy.
34:19My nutsack?Dog.My nutzeg is so saggy.Really?I'm going to have to get like a little tuck or something.A little nutoplasty.Yeah.That's what they call.
34:30Well, when I go in next month to get my septoplasty.Say, hey, why I'm here.Why I'm here.My shit can use a little tightening up down below.Here you go.Kentucky judge killed by sheriff ran courthouse-like quote-unquote brothel and traded sex for favors at twisted parties.Have you heard about this?do you know it that first came across my desk last night
34:55friend of the show jack berrigan sent that to me and said is this true i said it'sit's even more sinister than that if you can believe i meanyou know there's not much basically this all comes down to this woman in whitesboroughletcher county tia adams who basically said that the judge mullins was running a sex ringout of his office, that one of the deputies, I guess...That is documented, well, famously, or notedly.I guess I should say alleged.I don't know.
35:32This is all alleged.Now, I think he's actually in prison for the crime of...The sheriff?No, the deputy.The deputy.Yeah.Ben Fields, right?Right.
35:43Yeah.I mean, I don't know.I mean, I think that it wouldn't be surprising to me at all to find out that the judgewas involved in some sort of sex ring.What's the thing?I'm curious how a publication like the New York Post is covering something I know a littleinside baseball on anyway.Uh-huh.
36:07What's...Just as a media literacy exercise, I'd be curious to read this.Not often, Widesburg shows up in the, you know, the Eric Adams Times.Honestly.At the time there are the times of Tel Aviv.the Tel Aviv Postthe New York Postis just
36:26basically summarizingfrom a news nation storysothis was on news nationit's kind of anews aggregationyeah yeahnot really original reporting
36:37she sayswe would do sex partiesand perform showsand have sex with themfor money things like thatit was consensualbut it was the thingthat we were so young
36:46and then they used itagainst us to destroy our liveslaterthey would make sureto make youyou feel as small and degraded and belittal as possible to take your power away.Yeah, I believe this.Then again, I guess we have to say it's alleged for legal reasons, but that seems to be...
37:06After this happened...There are some problems in that court.This is no question about that.Yeah, after this happened last year, there was a lot of speculation that that's what was going on.I was a little skeptical just in the sense that, like, America is weird and people kill each other for, like,anticlimactic reasons all the time in America.Well, and let's,lest we forget the sheriff in question,
37:27who was the subject of an earlier episode of ourswhen I remember he told Tonya he would die for?Yeah.I just hate that sheriff a lot.Yeah, also, yeah, it's like,are we letting our hate of that sheriff cloud?I just really dislike him.Cloud the narrative.
37:46But let's not forget that he also thoughthis wife and daughter were AI people.He was very noticeably coming unglued per testimony.Mm-hmm.So, and what does that make him?An American?Because I'm going to tell you something.Mickey Steins is probably the median American at this point.
38:12Yeah.Is he?I think, I think probably.I don't know, not necessarily that the median American would, you know, murder somebody.But I think the sort of brain addlement that, you know, precedes that, I think most of us are infected by this point.Right.Now, here's the thing, though.Here's where the rubber hits the road, though.
38:41The ones I worry about are the ones that can't tell obvious AI from the real thing.Yeah.That's the, there's the cutoff for me.Right.Right.If somebody's commented on somethingIt's obviously AI like it's the truthThen I can safely just
38:55Put that person in the bin ofDon't listen to them anymoreThat's trueAnd I want to talk aboutIt's not a high bar, butI want to talk about AI in a secondThere's a local story on thatNo
39:07That's a Mal and Iverson coverYeahI did just make the mistakeOf opening TwitterAnd realized that I apparently stepped in itI made a take this morningThat it is not going over wellWhat did you say this time?
39:20I said, I was kind of...Cannonball, utterly.Over us the goat.I said, I was kind of surprised to learnthat the biggest proponentsof keeping phones in schoolsare parents who want to text their kids all day.Surely they'd want their kids to excel.
39:34But then I remember this is Americawhere our commitment to national suicideis unwavering.And...What's controversial about that?I guess it all comes down to people,a lot of it is like scoldingover like me not understanding
39:48the fact that likethere'sparents want to be able to text their kids all daybecause the regular school shootingsand massacres and stuffmakes them want to be able to contact their kidsI think that's truebut
40:02it still doesn't change the factthat like it's probably in that negativefor education to have kidson their phone all theyeah and then and then someone person saidthese are teenagers who are old enoughto babysit, cook, clean, hold jobs, and drive
40:19It's sweet that parents trust their own kids to have good judgment and self-control versus schools, especially after COVID.And with school shootings, of course, they prioritize being able to reach them in emergencies.Someone said, it's really not that simple.We rely on the phones to coordinate with our kids for after-school stuff.The obvious solution would be for the school to collect the phones at the beginning of the day and return them at the end of the day, but that's too difficult logistically.I think that, like, the thing is, I don't understand why people can't just approach this, like, phones are so.similar to cigaretteslike you're just
40:51you cannot own oneto your 18 you know what I'm sayingand if you give your kidsa phone before they're18 it would be like giving them a cigarettewell I don't knowif it's child abuse giving your kidscigarettes
41:05I meanyou don't think so I guess maybe it isit's not a goodit's not setting a good exampleit's not a good lookpeople are so viscerallylike passionate about thisthis is another one of my
41:22this ain't it y'alltopics where people are likeis your contrary and streak just rootedand wanting to start a dialogueI just want to start a dialogueit's not about attention you want to dialogue well once againmy thing with this ain't it y'allis that like it
41:39it tackles topics that arehard to talk about they're nothard to talk about necessarilyit's just that like all the people thatengage in it, the tone and tenor of the conversation is fraught and overdetermined. Does that makesense? I see what you're saying. It's like way too overdetermined. It's like the accepted line onthese topics still doesn't feel quite right. Yeah. Or nuanced enough. And the insinuation of the otherperson that they are cruel or heartless in holding their opinion. If they don't hold that
42:14orthodoxy on whatever the topic is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which Ialso engage in. I did just call parents. Oh, I've dog pile. I made a career dog pile.I've called people on Twitter. I thought about this and how like insane this is with me.Like, I've not done this in a long time, but I've called people like dumb pieces of shit over just like a mildly annoying tape.I said Matt. That doesn't really have any. Right. I said Matt Iglesias was a waste of a human life the other day. Would you agree with that?I don't. Did you think it's a waste? Do you think he's a waste of a life?Well, I don't want to say it's a waste of a human life.I think he's wasting his one life doing what he's doing.
42:54I don't think he's a waste of a life.See, there you go.I engaged in it.It's all in how he's saying.It's all in how you say it.And I also engage in,fucking kill yourself, bitch.You do that?
43:07Well, I kind of did that with Matt Ecclesias.Oh, you told you to kill him.I mean, I do, yeah, I do wish sometimes that I could bully him into doing that.it's a part of me I don't likeokaybut I'd be I'd be lying if I saidI haven't been so homicidaly angryat his bad takes that I wish he would just
43:29you know uh-huhyeahI don't know I think that there's got to be a wayto approach the phones and schools issueof um likeyes maybe it is too logistically hardto like collectphones in schools but like maybe if we had I don't I don't know if there's any solution to it honestly
43:52like genuinely like there's no remaining semblance of a civic society anymore so how do you evenget parents it's gone so how do you even get them to coordinate on a mass scale to help the childrenit's not happening it's uh everything is too atomized everything's too cyclically fragmentedall the kids are running to the witch in the middle of the nightUh-huh.So it's cooked, basically.There's no solution to it, really?Listen, here's what I really think about a lot.
44:23It's just because I've been, you know, Lexington or anybody who lives in a college town can understand this, too.In the summertime, it's like everybody just disappears.It's like the rapture happened.Yeah, yeah, yeah.You get anywhere in town in 10 minutes when school starts back, it takes you a half hour to get anywhere because the population like doubles.Right.But I've been thinking about this.We were like walking to the movies the other day, and I was just like, if I were a kid,
44:46going to college right now and I'm reading headlines like all entry level jobs are basicallygoing to be wiped yeah what's the fucking point is going to college just American ritual nowit does make you wonder you know what I mean is it just like another right of pet like just likehigh school college because it's like the way it was sold to us like from working class backgroundsis like we're going to better ourselves we're going to be like some of the first people in ourfamily to graduate college right like turn the tide right yeah I don'tthough that really shook out that way.However, that was the impetus for going to school,
45:21get an education, you know, that sort of thing.Now what is it?Is it obligatory?Is it just, is the best four years of your life?So just like a very expensive, like...STD, it's, yeah, you pay to get STDs in Blackout Drink, I guess.I guess so it's a social thing.It's a social thing, I guess?
45:41It's a four-year party, man.It's a four-year party.Like, this story...It's a four to six year party.This story, that's true.This story in Fortune, AI is gutting the next generation of talent.In tech, job openings for new grads have already been halved.Okay, so, okay.
46:00So here's my question.CEOs are warning entry-level jobs are on the brink of extinction, thanks to AI.Okay, here's the thing, okay?When we were, I hate to sound like an old head because I hate to even tee things up like that, okay?but we had enough master we we you know there's prince warning of the matrix at that award ceremonyand he was like it's fine to go on the computer but don't let the computer go on you're likeyou can go on the computer but the computer shouldn't go on you or run you or whatever see whenwe were in school we had enough mastery over the machine yeah that it actually enhanced our job
46:37prospects well but now the kids are behind the eight ball and paradoxically they spend way moretime online than we probably, I don't know.I mean, I was on ICQ.It's hard to say.It's hard to say.It feels like a lot of the kids that, like, friends, like kids of friends and familymembers, like, they're not that.They're online less than you would think.
46:59Then again, it's hard to generalize.They may even have been online less than us.But I think the point is, the point you're trying to make is that when we were growing up,we were told that the machines were.supplementaryand complementaryto facilitate ourupward mobility
47:16exactly they help you get a jobyeah yeah yeahnow the machines will be the jobso like what do webecause the anxiety thenwith older people was likeI don't know how to do Microsoftword I'm getting priced out
47:26the job market or whatever you knowand we were likeha ha ha millennials were a weirda very weird bridgegeneration in the sense that likeand GenX too to a certain extentwe're in the sense that likewe were able to
47:41master things like Microsoft Office andyou know rudimentary coding and stuff to be able tojust keep up just to keep up like those are the entry level jobs now beingautomated out because AI can do Microsoft Office writing copyand rudimentary coding like that's very good at that stuffand I guess the point is is if you are a student nowyeah what incentive do you evenhave to learn anything at all.
48:14Like, I mean, truly, like, if you're not going to get any entry-level jobs that helpyou, like, level up, why study for anything?Why, why does it even matter if you do or don't have phones in school?Like, what is even, what are we doing here, really?Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.What is?Is it just theater?Is it performance?
48:29Because, like, in the past...Is it performing American life?It's performing American life.It's right.Like, in the past, like, we were told that education, like, our education systemprepared us for the job market.That's the whole point.That was why it exists, right?
48:44Am I our glass?This is performing this American life.But like now, like, what do you do?Like, if you just, now, if there is no job market, like, why go through any of it?And, like, the value proposition is even worse than now.Yeah.It's like, oh, there's no entry-level jobs.So, like, and I'm going to wreck up massive debt.
49:10to get an obsolete degree.Yeah.Because that was the thingwhen we were in college.You remember there was like a lot of peoplethat got like a two-year associate's degreefrom my community college.They went and got a great job.
49:22Yeah.Like there was like certain nursing degreesyou could get in health care degrees.And then like I remember when I was coming inthey were like, oh, that's going to be obsolete soon.And the bachelor's degree is going to be obsolete soon.You should like get a master's.I think that most of that was just like a cash grab
49:38to push people toward like,master, you know, grad school and all that kind of stuff.Not that there's not value in that, but you shouldn't pay for an art degree.Right.That lesson than I, I probably could save myself a little bit of cash if I would have just learned that art.You got an art degree?No, I didn't, but I started to and just like...Well, I don't think there's anything bad or wrong with it on the face of it.
50:02No, no, no, there's nothing wrong with getting an art degree.I got a fucking history degree.What the fuck do you use that for?Well...Anyway, sorry.to talk about Jordano Brugoyou become a streamerthe coming
50:14the coming class ofnecromancing pussy hamI did learn to write better in collegelike I don'tI would not be able to evenconstruct a argument reallythat is truebut like are kids even doing that now
50:28that's the upshot of theliberal arts education rightyeah but we don't viewhigher education in Americaas likeacquisition of knowledge we look at it as like just a process of credentialization to get a job wellyou're right but even when we were in college it wasn't even acquisition of knowledge it was justacquisition of skills but like we're kind of now we're at a point where it's not even that
50:54because it's just theater yeah it's just kind of theater right because the skills you would begetting are all basically able to be performed by AI and I had people in my mentions becauseI was talking about this on Twitter I had people in my mentions likeLike, what do you mean like it does basic tasks?It sucks at that.And it's like, I mean, sort of.But like, I...But it can get you to 80%.
51:18What people that I know that have used chat, GPT, would say that, like,it can get me like a body and then I can make some tweaks to it and it's perfect.Right.I mean, I don't use it.But it's 80% correct right out of the gate, you know what I mean?I think the point is, is like, a lot of those entry-level jobs were...They weren't bullshit jobs by any means.They fulfilled and served a specific role.
51:40But if you can just have machines do it.For example, my first job of washing tires at Enterprise Rent-A-Car.That was your first show?No, I had a lot of buddies.At E-RAC?I had a lot of friends that worked at...My first job was Water Plan.Oh.
51:58I had a lot of friends that worked at Enterprise.They called it E-Rac.It's like to stay out of Iraq.You got a job of Enterprise Rent-Card?Yeah.These were the Bush here.Is there really Bush?Yeah, man.
52:13I mean, like, I guess what we're kind of, like, working towards here is that, like,we can talk about, like, should kids have phones in school or not, but, like, and obviouslyI don't think that they should, because I don't think kids should have devices, like.An abacus.You think this debate raised in the ancient world about the abacus?Listen, God damn it.It's a slippery slope.Okay.
52:42People were very nervous about the advent of writing.Really?Yeah.And then, obviously, about the advent of the printing press.Yeah.Because they thought that it meant oral traditions would go out.And they thought that it would harm memory.And, in fact, this is kind of strange.
53:01But a big part of what Giordano Bruno was trying to do was create an art of memory,like a mnemonic system to help your memory be basically like superhuman to use magic to essentiallyexpand your brain you know that meme of that guy being like boom i just turned six hours into threelike that's kind of what renaissance magic was in a way like they were kind of like trying to donew tropics for your like maximizing your brain capacity this is not an optimization's not a newphenomenal.The Romans had a mnemonic system.They had a memory system.
53:39We learned it in college.I never got good at it.But basically what you do is imagine in your mind a palace or a mansion with many rooms and you walk down the hallway.Is this the line from the monologue from Bobby's dad on Twin Pinks?Was that what he was practicing?Talking about the dream, you know?well um okay so the way you do it was like imagining your mind like a palace and in each roomare six objects and each object is representative of a certain body of thought or or something
54:19and this is how you build in your mind like this is how they did oratory this is how theydid like six hour speeches with no paper or anything they and similar to probably what stand-upcomics use as wellI don't know if stand-up comedians realizethey're doing this but this is basically what theRoman orators did. They wouldimagine like a palace and thenthey would go from room to room and that's how they would
54:41build their argument and memorize it withoutusing paper orparchment at the time, whatever, towrite down your speech. Sort ofmental architecture. Mental architecture.Exactly. But Joan Arnard Bruno was trying to build a newmnemonic system like something that would likebe even more sophisticated in power
54:59and allow you to like channel the heavens and all this.Anyways, I'm getting it out of myself.You talked about the abacus.It's called getting down your knees and prayer, everybody.If only we follow it, if only we listen to him, dude.It's been right there in the scripture the whole time.I know.You asked about the abacus.
55:18I think the larger question of like, should kids have phones in schools?It's like kids shouldn't have phones at all becauseit's like I said it's sort of like cigarettes like it really it's not good for you it's not just that like it's bad for education and it's bad for learning and pedagogy and socialization it's also just bad for you physically and mentally for your mental health for your physical health your vision your neck like all this stuff these are bad abacus never they didn't have a thing called abacus neck back in the ancient right you know what I mean I meannot sleeping i bet they didn't see little black floater spots in the periphery from playing withthe abattoes you know that was something i liked about eddington too just like the little detailslike no one ever sleeps everyone's on their phone at like three in the morning and stuffyeah it's like that's what i'm talking about like it's what i'm talking about that's what i'm talkingabout man it's got externalities is the point i'm trying to make and so i guess the point is
56:24is like there's no even incentive for kids to want to learn so of course they're going to wantto be on their phones all day to get the dopamine rewards that phones have because whatfucking job are you going to get like yeah used to the prospect of home ownership is what gaveus that dopamine hit and the hope of a better future uh-huh absent all that fuck you might as wellgo on your phone you know might as well I get it I read something the other day that was likeMillennialshavehave it better
56:55than anyonein human historylikethey've got betterthey're better offin standardof livingand it's just like
57:04I don't rememberwhat articlethis was inthat I was readingit was in likePoliticoor somethingI think
57:10but I justdon't seehow you can saythat whennone of uscan buy homesyeahnot of us
57:17can buyalsoI'vegot a twitch in my left eye and briefly entertained heroin use about a month ago.But yeah, yes, you're right, man.Got it better than anybody.Well, I want to talk about AI.You know, it's entirely plausible that this AI thing is going to go the way of NFTs and, you know,
57:44bored apes and whatever.Uh-huh.and I hope that is the casebut it seems likelike nobody treatedthe board apes and NFTs as aninevitability you know what I meanwell you're right and also
58:01the reason I don't think AI is going anywhereis because that would be goodyeah oh it's just not in the cards for us to have anysemblance of dignitywhen has anything good happenedrecently the last good thing that happenedin the last two or three years.People want there to be some, you know,
58:23dropping out of the bottom of the market for this, but like...Isn't it sad?That's what things have to come to before we decide it's bad.Right, like the market is the thing.Yeah, the market's spoken.We're so fucked, man.We're not a fucked as in like we're...I don't mean to take a negative tone like fucked.
58:40I just mean like we're fucked in the headthat, like, how we approach things.Yeah.Also, you can say that...that, like, you know, in the past we've had bubbles collapse, right?Like, you've got speculative bubbles that build up around either technologies or commodities or whatever.But AI has been landed upon as the hope for the future.It's got national security implications because we're currently in an AI race with China, basically.
59:14it'sit accomplishes multiple thingsin the world of like profit and exploitationI don't see a scenariowhere we do away with it nowlike I just don'tlike that Sam Altman guy is obviouslya total con artist
59:31buthe says the thingsthat the national security state wants to hearand so why would I guess my question iswhy would theylike you're basically uselessif you're bornpast a certain day
59:45year?Yeah.I mean,I think thatthat's a veryresonant messagewith captains of industryand the leaders
59:54of state right now.I don't want to go aheadand tell you,I'm starting to thinkthis American thingis a bad,I'm starting to thinkit's not so above board.
01:00:02It certainlyhas some flawsbuilt into it,doesn't it?I think it's a bit of racket.I mean, he saysthat there's neverbeen a more exciting time
01:00:10to be,uh,he says it's actuallythe mostexciting time to be starting out in one's career.Probably just what I'd say to Sam is there's not a more exciting time in human historyto turn to cannibalism, either.A lot of exciting things happen on that front, Sam.
01:00:30That's true.Honestly, there's probably, and I do mean this, historically, I don't mean it literally.Like, I'm not encouraging anybody to do it.But I will say historically and from a narrative perspective, there's never been a more excitingtime to shoot executives and CEO.That is true.There's recent precedents for it.Here's the other thing I'll say, too.
01:00:50To watch them die in agony in public.Dude, here's the thing about Sam Altman that drives me mad.I've been mad at Sam Altman and Spike Lee's this week.Mad as hell.My anger with Spike is fleeting.I don't get over that as soon as the memory of this movie gets out of my head.And I remember him as he was with do the right thing and some of his better films.Summer of Sam.
01:01:12some of his better filmsSam Waltman here's the thing abouthow he's irredeemable because do you rememberwhen this fucking pussy-ass bitchwas up in arms and thought the governmentshould have covered his NFT lossesremember when there was like Black Fridaything that happened everybody lost their money
01:01:32that were over leveragedin these fake currenciesyeah can you imagine a historicalanalog to thatI thought that was David Sackshim tooSam Altman was in that toohe was in that too
01:01:46there was a lot of thembut could you just imaginecould you imaginebeing overly leveragedin Confederate notesand the Confederacy's defeatedand you're likebut I had all my
01:02:01future tied up in thatConfederate money thoughnow listenUncle Sam I need you tolike give me fair market valueactually to the dollar for that and cover it.And then the union is just like,yeah, we've just spent several years fighting you tooth and nail
01:02:18and, you know, brother and against brotherand killing you all.But yeah, I think that's about right.Which brings us to the failures of reconstruction.That's true, because they did pretty much do that with slave owners.They kind of did make the slaver class whole.Right, right.Planner class or whatever, which is a horrible Miss No, Mar.
01:02:38but just listening to the guytalkoh yeahthere's just that toolike what was his thing onTheo von's podcastwhere he saidyeah Sam
01:02:53I can't do Theo Vaughanthat's close thoughthat's because I'm alreadylike 75% of the way thereI think you're a sweeter coolerTheo Vaughn personallythanks manum
01:03:05what did Theo Vaughanwhat did he say on Theo Vonshow that we should build abig Dyson spherearound the solar system?He said, Tim Altman said, I doguess that a lot of the world gets covered in datacenters over time. Theo Vaughan, do you really?
01:03:21Altman, but I don't know, becausemaybe we put them in space. Like, maybewe build a big Dyson sphere around the solarsystem and say, hey, it actually makes no sense to putthese on Earth. I wish I had, like,more concrete answers for you, but like, we'restumbling through this.Why the fuck would
01:03:37they put data centers in space? Why would you build a Dyson sphere? By the way, that's anotherthis ain't it, y'all topic. Dyson spheres. Dog. My fucking mentions, after postingabout Dyson spheres, everybody on the fucking planet is apparently an expert in these things.Really? People have really strong feelings about Dyson. I heard this term for the first timeabout four minutes ago.what's the what are they saying what were some of the things they were sayingjust they were eat shit Terrence you clearly don't have a grasp of this technologythey weren't really targeting me they were arguing with each other about whether it was
01:04:18feasible or not oh yeah yeah here's my thing on this I think we should listen toa former colleague of the black panthers preacher man festerman and we shouldthe moon should be for the peoplewe gotta stay away from the moonlisten we already gave these peopletheir little fake currency to make more moneyoff of we're giving them A-eye and renderingourselves obsolete you know
01:04:43like we were walking by that wood chipper yesterdayyeah I almost got into ityeahI thought about just dyinghead firstand justjustit just catches your fingers and pulls you
01:04:57the rest of the way therebut I was thinking about thatI was like, we absolutely, absolutely cannot give them the goddamn moon to monkey around with up there.Like, they want the moon to put up.Well, there's talk of that nuclear reactor, there's talking about mining the moon and all that kind of stuff.Like, if we're not going, okay, if we're not going to draw a hard line for ourselves,if we're not going to respect ourselves enough to kill these AI people and put them in the wet chipper,because this is existential.
01:05:30So make no bones about that.You cut a man's income off.You might as well be fucking killing him in this country.I mean...Okay?Yeah.I'm serious about this.This is existential.
01:05:40This is, this is...This is class warfare, yes.But beyond that, it's also like actual warfare.Right.Physical warfare.Okay.So even if we're not going to respect ourselves enough to just...We're just going to go along to get along and see where this all shakes out at.
01:05:57When they start talking the moon shit, that's like...That's like, suck us all into a black coat,which honestly, if we don't respect ourselves enough to combat the AI thing,we might as well let them have the goddamn moonand suck us into a black fucking hole.I'm kind of astonished that there's even any debate about this at all.Like, that you have people like Taylor Lawrence,is that her name,
01:06:18whose whole thing, she's like the Marlboro Man of Phones.Like, she's been driven insane by phones.And it's made it her life's mission to be.make sure that every child has a phoneand is online andlike she is a paradigmatic personwho's the Marlboro man of phonesshe's a paradigmatic person who's been
01:06:41driven insane by phonelike I don't I'm genuinelyshocked that there's even any debateabout this like it's so badfor people and for humanitybut but setting asideokay think of the crazyshit that happens when the moon's just like
01:06:58when there's like a lunar eclipse or somethingwe saw a goddamn car explode the birds and bats are coming out midday it's not a it's likean apocalyptic scene it's a force you don't want to mess with right now imagine just we'regoing up there and build a goddamn nuclear reactor in a data center in a data center imagine if wehave a shernoble on the moon surenoble on the moon episode title maybe butChernobyl on the moon dogOh, TomI just
01:07:31You knowDo you knowLike I'm going to be totally honest with you hereI was kind of in the dark about what data centers even areI'd be honest with youMy frame of reference isEddingtonAnd also everybody was talking about that data center
01:07:49They wanted to build an Appalachia back when I was inAppalachianorganizing?For what?I don't know if peopleweren't to fight a data centerand I justI'll be honest with you
01:08:01I didn't really sink my teethinto that when I waiteduntil they were doing thecrypto miningthen I was likeyeah that's the oneI'm with KeownWell they're trying to build one
01:08:09in Mason CountyKentuckyand I think they're trying tobuild one in Western Kentuckytoo close to Paducathat's going to bepowered by that nuclearplant out there
01:08:18the thing isis most of these data centersthey're suchmassive drains on the local grid.Like, the one they build,the one they want to build in Mason County, for example.I'm going to get this number wrong,but Kentucky County wants residents to sell their land
01:08:36for massive, mysterious new development.One of the largest...Don't ask.What is the weird thing about this?Is that the public...Talk about this like Bob Dylan one.I ain't need done Dylan a while.I'm retiring.
01:08:49Oh, come on.It's not funny.One time for the road.For me.I'm not funny.For me.Oh, Dom.I'm not funny, man.
01:08:59We'll use him in a domain on you if you don't want to sell willingly.Kentucky County wants residents to sell their land.I'm not doing it.I can't do it.Maysville.Under a setting July sun, 30 frustrated farmers and landowners gathered in the shade of a neighbor's garage.blah blah blahthe problem was
01:09:26nobody quite knewwhat the developmentwas who owned itor when it would comethe weird thing about thisis that the Mason Countypublic officialshave all signed NDAs
01:09:34so they won't tell the peopleokay I got a questionwhat they're building sowe foughtwe you knowwe've talked to a lotabout fighting the prisonback home and all that kind of stuff
01:09:45at least we knewwhat we were fightingis it likehere they're just likethere's a big ideacoming they needyou on board.Well, it's weird.
01:09:55Don't ask what it's about.Trust us.Yeah, it's weird that public officialswho are elected by the peoplecan't tell the peoplewhat it is that's coming.Yeah.That's this weird like superposition.
01:10:09You know what I'm saying?Where they like can't,it just, it goes to show you the extentto which they're completely bought outand sold to corporations.Yeah.But.Or maybe it's my theory
01:10:21that they're building them outrush moreto pedophilesthereand theyit's apublic monumentwork
01:10:27Mount Touchmoreis that what you sayyeahwell that'sSteveoh Stevecame upwith
01:10:32Mount Touchmoreyeahthat's goodbut it's likeapparentlyit will causeJeffrey Epsteinthe new
01:10:44data centeris a2.2gigawattprojectbut theclosestpower
01:10:51plant like utility can only supply like half of that and so they don't know where the remainingwatt gigawattage is going to come from this county had already basically gotten a solar farm killedthere because apparently they were worried about what it was going to do to like the groundlike the soil and the groundwater and everything um but like in this in this article it has a linkto this New York Times article.At Amazon's biggest data center,everything is supersized for AI.On 1,200 acres of cornfield in Indiana,
01:11:27Amazon is building one of the largest computers everfor work with Anthropic, an AI startup.This is a 1,200-acre stretch of farmland.The one they want to build in Kentuckyis 5,000 acres.What is that?Oh, damn.Yeah.
01:11:46The facility,this is the one in New York.Indiana. The facility will consume 2.2 gigawatts of electricity and up to power a million homes.Each year, it will use millions of gallons of water to keep the chips from overheating.And it was built with a single customer in mind, the AI startup Anthropic, which aims to create anAI system that matches the human brain. With hundreds of thousands of miles of fiber connectingevery chip and computer together, the entire complex will form one giant machine.The complex, so large that it can be viewed completely only from high and
01:12:19the sky is the first in a new generationof data centers being built by Amazonand part of what the companycalls Project Reneer after the mountainthat looms near its Seattle headquarters.Project Reneerwill also include facilities in Mississippiand possibly North Carolina and
01:12:35Pennsylvania.What could go wrong?These data centerswill dwarf most of the onesalready existing, the onesthat they're planning to build, which were builtbefore Open AIS chat GPTchatbot inspired the AI boom in 2022.
01:12:52The tech industry's increasingly powerful AI technologiesrequire massive networks of specialized computer chipsand hundreds of billions of dollars to build the data centersthat house those chips.They're saying that the one in Mason Countythat they want to build will create 400 jobs.The state of Kentucky itself has basicallyrolled out a shitload of tax breaks and stuff
01:13:15for all these, for anybody who wantsto build a data center in Kentucky.I mean...I'm just going to blight our landscape.The most beautiful state in the nation.More coastline than any other state.River coastline.Yeah.
01:13:32Yeah.You don't know.And they just want to...They just want to take our beautiful landthat we weren'tnot even supposed to be on to begin within the data center.This kind of stuff is a good example of
01:13:46what neoliberalism is.that buddy's dad said things like thator slapped to Daniel Boone's faceit's probably more likeslapped a Tecumse's facebut yeahyeah well Daniel Boone probably alsowould have hated it but for different reasons
01:14:02he's like white people are supposed to live hereumin Indianaa subsidiary of AEPsuggested that Amazon tour tracks offarmland 15 milesblah blah blahYeah, I don't know, man
01:14:21That's a big-ass fucking project, thoughDid you imagine how much fucking power goes into one of these things?Dude, I couldn't even think about...I don't even have a frame of reference for that.5,000 fucking acres.To bury the fiber optic cables connecting the buildingsand to install other underground infrastructure,Amazon had to pump water out of the wet ground.
01:14:46One permit application showed that the company requested permission to pump 2.2 million gallons an hour for 730 days.State officials are now investigating of the process, known as dewatering, is the reason some neighbors are reporting dry wells.Some locals have protested the way the project has progressed, complaining that it has caused water problems, increased traffic and noise,it significantly altered the look and feel of this agricultural community.2.2 million gallons of water an hour.I like it's called dewatering.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Only in America.
01:15:27Only in American.Dewatering.Dewatering.Uh-huh.Well, so basically we're going to let Jeff Bezos suck up all of our resources,so he can do what we're.world dominationI don't know
01:15:46why does he get to do itit's pretty fucked upthat it's that it's that guyyeahand not menot meI wanted to do itI wanted to do it
01:15:59I wanted to do itgod damn itmm-hmmit was Greg Allmanthat was the organplayed the organfor the Allman brothersit was
01:16:12yeah you shot that downlast nightwhat did you say about the almond brothers last nightI said who played the organ for the almond brotherno but there was something about likethe oh the songwriting processthe songwriting process for the almond brothersthe songwriting process for the almond brothers who I love
01:16:32is like how could we how could we comparethe perils of having woman problemsto the horrors of slaveryand that's the recipe for a hituh-huh i'm assuming this means we're gonna give up we're giving up serious time talking hourwe're gonna we're pivoting to silly time talking hour now i'm fine with it by the wayi'm fine not talking about serious though i'm well i thought i thought you'd want to know i didn'tno i do want to know i just when i when i when i got confirmation i put out uh that text
01:17:06message and finally got the word back uh-huh and it turns out that i didn't want to keep youin suspense any longer uh-huhwhere the hell did you go in the movie last nightyou just disappeared for most of the secondno i was i was sitting in the row behind you alloh god i didn't i got i kept looking over i was like he's missing the whole thingno i got i was i had to pee and i was like in the middle of the rowand i just i've always wondered where you go every time we go to the movie you disappear
01:17:36for about you time it to where you don't miss a lot of the uh-huh you make sure you golike toward the end of the first actWell, yeah, I've got a process figured out to where I, like, I know when things are dipping down and, like, I can go in the...I looked over one time, it looks like you were wiping sweat from your brow.I was like, damn, is...Is Ephes that suspenseful?Oh, you mean in a moot?Not last night, but just in a movie in general?
01:18:04Just in general, I've noticed, and I'm just curious what's happening.Well, I am very taken in by the movies, yes.I'm very impressionable.I get really freaked out.I didn't sleep well last nightbecause I got so amped upbecause we went and watched heat.Yeah, that's true.
01:18:17Man, I'd tell you what,that first time I was sitting at the theater.Yeah?Yeah.Great viewing experience.It really is, isn't it?No, I watched, I was there.I just didn't want to get back.
01:18:29I hate making people get up for me in the moviebecause I have to go pee.And so I'd already done it once,and then I did it a second time,and I was like, I'm not going back again.I thought it was a cavalier move for youto follow me inside to the middle of the row.I was like, yeah, I should have, we should have said Tance, we saved you an aisle scene.
01:18:49I have to pee a lot.Is it a nightmare if you're on a flight and you get the window seat, but a three-roar?Yes.Oh, yeah.I don't fly anymore, though.For that reason.Yeah.Heat.
01:19:09Man.Do you like it?Loved it.keep the heat off of you do you think it's the best movie ever made uh no i think it's a fine film thoughi put it in my top 10 or 15 films what about a movie called meat meat meat and they have themeat off of you they have to keep the meat off you you have to keep the meat off the action thethe juicyness the action is the juiciness never be never have any attachmentsnever have anything in your life
01:19:43that you can't walk away fromin 30 seconds if you feel the meataround the cornerneveryeah never eat anythingyou can't digest in 30 secondsif you see the meatif you see them
01:19:58on the plateon the grillif you see the meat on the platearound the cornersend it back if you thinkyou can't digest it in 30 secondsand get out of therebefore the cops come
01:20:08unless they're shooting at youtrue for a totally unrelated crimeMm-hmmYou don't want to be slowed down by the thermic effect of foodThat will fuck you up, yeahYeah, that's trueI'm sorry, I think I ruined this episodeBy trying to get serious in the middle of it
01:20:24I guess I need to commitI need to either be silly or seriousBut trying to do bothI don't think you have to chooseI try to get them seriousHere, let's go back to being seriousI don't want toNo, we can
01:20:34But I really don't, I genuinely don't want toI didn't even want to in the first placeYou didn't even want to read that about the MaysvilleI didn't even really want to read anything at all.Do you ever hear anything about the mushroom mines?The data centers over there in Carter County?Mushroom mines.Yeah, apparently there's some haunted mines that contain data centers.
01:20:53Like old data centers?I'm going to get to the bottom of it.Humb a few bars here.Wait.This is how we'll thread the silly with the series.My problem is that I got, I made a stupid controversial statement on Twitter,and then I let it get to my head when people were like,you fucking, you're a moron.
01:21:11You don't understand kids at all.And then I was like, Jesus Christ,maybe I don't understand anything at all.And I was like,maybe I can make up for itby talking about something seriousso people will think I'm smartbecause we've been doing these silly episodes lately.
01:21:23But the only reason we've been doing these episodes latelyis because we just think thatmaybe talking in personis more personable and proprietary.so that our podcast doesn't sound like anything else out there.We want it to be totally unique.But in the process, perhaps I've made a product that nobody really likes.I think that's true.
01:21:50Doubts that keep me up at night.So I can't decide if I want to go serious or silly.So in 2006, there was a scam that was perpetrated on the fine people of Carter County.Uh-huh.Okay.Uh-huh.Um, there was a limestone mine, Lotton limestone mine, aka the mushroom mine.Uh-huh.
01:22:10Okay.Now, in 2006, the mine was the center of a scam involving the building of a data storage site.Read more history here.Hold on a second.I'll click.Okay.Um, more bars.Um, see, the problem is that I can't, about your age of anxiety.
01:22:27I, the problem is I can't, I'm even more nervous about money now that I'm about to have achild. And so I'm trying to make the perfect product that will make me more money, but it seemslike we're just kind of boxed in here, and we just have hit a plateau, and I guess we're justnever going to make millions of dollars. And so it's made me hyper aware of the product. Okay, cool.On May 8, 2006, the former mushroom farm sold a global data corporation, a high-tech data storagecompany from California for $996,000. Global data desired to construct a security.underground data storage center, which would be one of the largest in the world.Referred to as the Stone Mountain Ultra Secure Data Complex, it would create 1,500 to 1,500 jobs.
01:23:14Seven buildings were to be built in the first phase to house data and security personnel would employ 35 to 50 people.Global Data hired Smart Business Advisory to provide advice on the construction of the complex and J.P. Morgan's specialty asset division to manage the property.Uh-huh.It seems solid so far.It also enlisted prudential commercial real estate,TELAXIS, and J.P. Morgan's Realty Division to represent the development.To jumpstart the project, Global Data hired Danny Sparks,Olive Hill, Kentucky's mayor as a project administrator.
01:23:50Nothing, nothing to miss so far.Nothing missed so far.A field office was opened in downtown Olive Hill in December.Construction began in early 2008 on the first seven buildings as part of the first phase.This is underground in a mine.All underground in a mine, yeah.In Carter County.In Carter County.
01:24:07Where's the mushrooms come in?I don't know why they cut.Maybe it's just like...Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.All of the structures would be two stories in height and contained 12,800 square feet of space.I guess they build them in these mines because they get overheated and they want them to be cooler.Bingo.Bingo.
01:24:26Other phases included more than 400 data centers within the mine.Office buildings, warehouses, support, security structures.Now, could you imagine going to work in the mines, but you're not mining anything?You just, like, go underground every...Like, it's kind of a silly thing.It's like...I guess you are mining people's data.Yeah.
01:24:45Right?And why?So it's extractive in a way still.So this is a mine, not a cave.It's a mine.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Okay.By September, companies working on the project report having gone...
01:24:59reported having gone since July without pay from global data.The civil suit was filed on September 4th.Wolpert Incorporation of Ashland, Kentucky, reported over 232,000 unpaid architectural services,and McKinsey Concrete Company claimed 20,000 in outstanding receipts.Other companies that filed include Wells Ready Mix, Saoto, Block Company, Wayne Supply, Greg Greenhill, Kenneth Day, Fifth Street, Electric.Well, hell, I wouldn't have paid Fifth Street Electric.Larry Porter, Wayne Jones, Simplex Grinnell.gooch construction
01:25:34pondersthat's what I need for my sagging nutsI need Gooch constructionGooch reconstructionThe alleged fraud was notunfamiliar to Liam P. Russellowner of global data he had been found guiltyon 36 felony counts in California
01:25:51where the charges ranged from grand theftby embezzlement, bad checks, forgeryfalse personificationperjury andyeahand just perjurySo they started construction on it, right?Yeah, yeah.
01:26:06But they didn't finish because the money dried up, basically.Yeah, basically.There's a mine in eastern Kentucky with half-constructed data center.Yeah, yeah, yeah.You can go in there.Really?Yeah, yeah, yeah.It's just kind of like one of those, like, abandoned churches or something like it.
01:26:19Oh, fuck.The land that Global Data had acquired for the data center was put up for sale in May of 2009.The property was then transferred to Russell,who later filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in Santa Bar.Harbor, California, one day before the land was put up to a court-ordered auction in Decemberof 2010.The bankruptcy did not stop the sale, and while it was appraised for $1.2 million, it soldfor just under $800,000.
01:26:44In January of 2011, the bankruptcy petition was dismissed because Russell had failed to continuethe process.In February, Russell attempted to set aside the sale of the land but was rejected in court.He then burned himself alive in protest of the Black Lives Matter movement.Wait, are you...I'll throw that in there for a little.I'll throw that in there for a little color.Anyway, long story short,
01:27:10my hackles go up anytime I hear data center.Because you were traumatized by that.Well, it's not that I was traumatized.It's not that I was traumatized by this scandal.But I remember being in college and people,my buddies were from Carter County and be like...I'm going to get a job in the data center?Yeah, they were like, man,
01:27:28you heard about that.They're building it underground.And I just think about that.Think about like working at a job where you don't see the sun.Like your smoke breaks, it result in like methane explosions or something like that.It's like working on the moon.Kind of.Already.
01:27:45Yeah.So they've already been working on us working on the moon.They've put the plan in motion as early as 2006.Man.So anyway, I'm sure Bezos will finish his or whatever.but whatever they're doing there.Well, I guess we know what they're doing there, right?In Mason County?
01:28:06Well, I mean, just the data.It's like, they know that data's worth something.Now it's an actual...Well, but these data centers, this is all for AI.So, like, those ones back then were just for harvesting regular data.Digital files.And also, you know, just...Your browser cache.
01:28:29Your browser cacheRight.Well, it's Terrance been looking at.But this is for AI.We know what to sell him.Ball augmentation products.For these data centers, it's all housing information and queries about, you know, all the various...I guess, what it is, I guess, is all the various queries that it stores to be able to develop its intelligence.
01:28:57It's quote-unquote super-intelligent.it's like not so it's it's such a massive amount of data you can't just keep it on a littlefloppy disk yeah well if you just showed it one day i got all the world's data right hereyeah right here on this little this little bitty disk all the it's like the AI thing really isit's just another obviously it's another extractive end game where it's like it's sooverbearing on the local ecosystem, like the fact that it could power a million homes for thatcenter in Indiana, that it takes like 2.2 gigawatts. Like, that's really astonishing. And the onethat they want to build in northern Kentucky, no one knows who's behind that one. They just know
01:29:51it's a data center. They won't say who it is. I mean, it could be Amazon, it could bemeta, although apparentlymeta laid off a lot of AI peoplethis week. Could be Bob Dylan.Could be Bob Dylan.Yeah. It could be.Getting into the game, Dougie.That would be crazy if someone did a
01:30:09Bob Dylan impression. We should get JamesAustin Johnson Johnson on the show todo the Bob Dylan impression.Oh my God.Well, I mean thathe does a good one.Oh, my God. You're selling yourself short.I don't, I can't, I don't,
01:30:24I don't know how to riff anymoreOh my GodWhat do you read one commentYou spiralIt wasn't a commentI'm just sayingYou've been reading the comments againI can tell you've been reading the comments
01:30:36I can tellWhat have I readWhat comment have I readThis data thing's got in your head a little bitYeahThey've gotten to you tooThey have gotten to me tooOh
01:30:48God damnI have to go thoughbecause I'm hungry.I'm busting the piss, I'll be honest.All right.Well, we're going to end this episode.I guess the takeaway lessons from this episode are don't let kids have phones.No data centers.
01:31:08No, no moon stuff.Don't let, no moon stuff.Don't let kids have schools at all, actually.School's theater.School is theater.And I'm going to learn how to play trumpet.that's right that's a sidewe've covered a wide swath
01:31:25we didn't we didn't decide whether I should learn trumpetor saxophone what do you think I shouldAre you wed to the brass sectionIt's got to be because it's supposed to help meIt's going to help my sleep apneaIt fortifies the muscles in my upper airwayAnd once a scog, I always a scotiaYeah it's got to be I gotta have
01:31:44It's got to be a brass or woodwindCould also be clarinetI could learn clarinetWhat about the obowhat's the marketlook like for obo playerwell you also got to considermoney as an issue here
01:31:56an or obo is probably pretty expensiveI gotchaI got yousussophonesomething crazyokay I think it might bea little more expensivethan a trumpet
01:32:06what do you think of sousaponejust off the top of your headwhat would you saya gooda gently use sussophonegoes for on the after marketI don't even knowwhat a susaphone looks like
01:32:16is it like a big trumpetis it look like ait's one of the big dogsDoes it look like a...Large heavy non-transporting brass instrument in the tuba family.I was going to say it's in the tuba family.Yeah, yeah, yeah.I guess I could learn tuba.
01:32:31That's also got to be expensive, though, too.I want to learn something...I need something a little cheap.I can't spend that much money.I found a $400 trumpet at that doo-wop shop.Somebody's going to listen to this and go buy it before I can go get it.Do you want the...If you're still...
01:32:47I don't know if you're completely...disregard of the sousaphone conversation, but we can get you fine. We can get you in a sousaphonetoday at musicians friend for $8,979. Interesting. What do you want to imagine like approaching asusa? I guess that's how like musicians fan of those do it. You know, it's like used carsalesmanship tactics but for music instruments. At Terrence, what's going to take to get youin this gently used Yamaha sousaphone today?what kind of payment would you likethe $400
01:33:23trumpetI'm underwater on mysousaponethey just come and repo itI mean the $400trumpet already seemed a little steepI don't know if I can afford itYou got the sousapone on
01:33:36they're trying to come repo itand they're likeyou can have it when you pry it out of my colddead handyou're just running down the streetwith itjust blowing itAs long as it helps me sleep better
01:33:49I'm all for itdude, but I don't know if I can pay $8,000.You just call me crying when I met,man, listen, I got the kid coming.I'm upside down on the sousapone.I'm four payments behind on the sousapone.The bank's coming after it, man.I don't know what I'm going to do.
01:34:16God damn it.Well, look, if it's all in service for our,I guess it's worth it.That's true.It's all worth it.I went to the Woodland Art Fair last weekend.You said that you walked away impressed by the diversity of talent there.Definitely.
01:34:35I was making myself laugh.I was getting a good laugh out of the concept of like an Ocean's Eleven style heist of bad art.An art hist at an art fair.An art heist at a bad art fair.It's like that scene where, what's that guy's name?He does the, the laser alarm thing and he like dances over it or whatever.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Which what I'm talking about?
01:35:05Vincent Cassel.I was imagining like something like that, but to steal like a heavily daubed oil painting of like Jimmy Hendrix.like you don't want to be careful not to trip the alarm yeah like um you let blow smoke out of your mouth to like let the invisible line show yeah off over like creating a distraction so that you could come in and pull off the biggest bad art heist of history like they're reporting they're reporting that six thousand dollars of paintings because i mean like you know well actually those paintings actually were very expensive it was like paintings of like paintings of likelike umTupac Kirk CobainTupac Kirk CobainBiggieand then there's also
01:35:53guys that are doinglike surrealist stuffoh yeahRothsbury Ginsburg's onethere was also this one guythough who was doingsurrealist stuffwhere it's like
01:36:01imagine if a whole citywas on the back of a turtlelike imagine if the worldwas a big turtleor like imagine if a cowboywas wranglinga rhinoceroslike that kind of stuff
01:36:13yeah yeah yeahit was selling for like$2,000 a paintingso it's likeokayThey're calling it the most expensive bad art heist in history.Over $1 million of bad art was stolen from this art fair.Well.
01:36:32In the most sophisticated heist we've seen.In the most sophisticated heist we've ever seen.It's really, you just got the ride.You were supposed to go to the Louvre, but he's right at the Woodlawn Art Fair.Yeah.Do you like that concept?It was funnier in my head.You wearing a cat suit.
01:36:49It was funnier.I can't actually riff, see.I was, it was funnier in my head.Oh, God, stop it.It didn't work.Stop it.It was a fucking riff didn't work.I'm just going to quit.
01:37:00I'm going to go work in a library.Oh, wait, but you don't like libraries.I do not say that.I love libraries.I love libraries.I misspoke, okay?I do need to find a job because I can't do this for 40 more years.Yeah, you can.
01:37:14I don't think I can.I don't think I can.I think it's time to.Turn it off.I don't think.Turn the zoom off.All right, let's turn the recorder off.40 more years, folks.
01:37:27We'll see you next time on Patreon.Bye.
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