Trillbilly Worker's Party - Episode 454: Jerusalem Flatline

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

This week we're looking at a hilariously grim foundational text of Christian Zionism: John Hagee's mid-aughts book "Jerusalem Countdown." We discuss the history of non-Jewish Zionism, the nature of the United States and Israel's relationship, and why no one can admit that Iran has gotten the upper hand against Israel and the U.S. We also talk discuss a few other texts in this, including Patrick Wolfe's "Traces of History," Regina Sharif's "Non-Jewish Zionism: Its Roots in Western History," and Adolf von Harnack's "The Expansion of Christianity in the First Three Centuries." Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty

So I want to know more about Holland's thing of ignoring your fatigue. He said just ignore it. He said that if you're tired, just ignore it because the body is capable of incredible things. I think the body isn't capable of incredible things, provided that it's well taken care of with sleep and nutrition and Well, but what if you're not getting those things and you don't have any hope of getting them soon? I think you just ignore it. That's what I've been doing. I've just been ignoring my fatigue.

Well, the thing about ignoring things is they're 50-50 balls. They can either be nothing and you're known otherwise or they can destroy your life. You know? Yeah, well, in my cognitive behavioral therapy, program. The whole thing is like, because I have like health OCD. So it's like if you focus on a thing, then it becomes worse, obviously, right? So if like I focus on my fatigue, then it's going to really be bad.

Can't give in to your fatigue. So if I just ignore it and just act like it's not there or at least try to distract myself with other thoughts, it's not as bad. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I wonder if he's ever like collapsed under the, Holland? Yeah. He looks like a very, very fit.

He looks like a robust man. Man, I doubt he's ever had a serious physical problem in his life. But, but then again, maybe that's where his inspiration comes from. Yeah, we don't know his journey necessarily. I mean, I support, I have just been living by his mantra. For a few weeks now. Well, it shows. You just said it looked like I haven't slept in front.

four days. So does that what you mean? It shows like... Yeah, just ignoring the fatigue. And I did like his Instagram photo. It's like, have you been to the Sonda today?

If not, deep down, too lazy. Yeah. It's important to do that. I've not saw you around the sauna speaking of. I've not going to the Sana anymore.

I've learned your lesson. Heat exhaustion. Well, I will back in, I will when the fall comes around. Yeah, it feels very, redundant now. I'm too old. I don't think you're too old.

All right. Let's stop. Let's stop with the negative talk, Terrence, before we go too far down that route. Yeah, yeah. I think you, I think your best years are ahead of you. Well, I wouldn't go that far. Well, can the best years being ahead of you be said about anybody that's like, you know, I don't know, physically, that's speaking, I mean, socially. You know, with your career, obviously your best years are ahead of you from a certain age.

But physically, you start kind of... I think as you get older, what sucks mentally is you get more and more scared of the impending end. And so you wind up... I've been thinking about this. Did you see this story about how people in Thomas Massey's district... Like, they feel duped because they got tricked. by an AI ad that said Thomas Massey was having a thruple with AOC and Ilhan Omar. And as a result, they voted for his opponent.

That was the tipping point. That was the thing they were like, well. They felt tricked by that. Listen, I like what he's brought to the district, but I can't improve of his new lifestyle. I want to meet the one guy that heard that and was like, hell yeah, dude, that's hot. That's awesome. Dude, way to go. Heard that, because there's so many layers to that, right?

It's like, first of all, the fact that, like, there's AI ads that are just false and changing people's minds. Second of all, that anybody would be stupid enough to believe that. Like, I am a critic of AI, but at a certain point, if you believe that, that's kind of on you. And then third of all, that that would be a, like, prohibiting thing, that you would hear that and be like, I cannot abide this. I can't, I can't vote for someone who's having a thruple with AOC and Ilhan Omar. Okay, come on. Maybe one or the other, but both. I'm just saying,

I'm just saying, I want to meet the guy that heard that, believed it, and was like, hell yeah, brother. Yeah, hell yeah, man. Yeah, just the opposite. It was like, oh, that's disgusting. And then this guy's like, fuck yeah, dude, Massey all the way. But wasn't going to vote for him before that?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty crazy, man. Well, it also speaks to just, you know, There's some people, to parents, that are never coming back. No. They're not coming back. No.

Their reality has been warped permanently, and a lot of these people fancy themselves brave truth tellers around 2015, 2015, incapable of corruption. And yet, yet, they got corrupt. The thing is, is, like, boomers, paradoxically, because they grew up in a world where they had no real reason to not trust, institutions, they just kind of believe anything they hear now. Whereas, like, again, paradoxically, we grew up in a world that's a little more. Our reality has made less and less sense as time has went off. Yeah, and you've not had a ton of reason to trust any institutions, and so you don't really

put a whole lot of stock in anything that you hear. Yeah. Which can be a bad thing, too, but... We got the Bush administration to think for that. Had they, you know, not that there's a right way to handle it, genociding, two million people. but had they had bumbling fools not been at the wheel of that we might not have you know had 9-11 is that what you're saying well well we probably 9-11 is probably foregone conclusion it seems like but it kind of tipped us off to sort of being skeptical of all that worse when I was a kid I wasn't

very skeptical to clinton's I was skeptical of the Lewinsky thing are you well he denied it and it's like Come on, brother. We know you did that. Come on. You know, when I, from my middle school chair, I was still like, no, they're trying to frame him. Why are they trying to frame him up like that? You're a young lib?

Dude, I was all in on Clinton. I loved Bill Clinton. I didn't know anything about him, really. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand politics. I was like, he'd never cheat on his wife. He's a ridiculous. Venerable Hillary Clinton.

These are ridiculous allegations. Look at him. He mouthful words. I love you to Hillary. That's romantic. Yeah, there's nothing more romantic than Mouthing I love you to your wife when you're embroiled in a sex scandal. Pretty bad, dude. Well, anyway, that's the world we grew up in.

And now the world we grew up, our children grow up in is one where you can manipulate reality to make money. Yeah. So is it all been leading up to this? Yeah. Okay. Oh, wait. So basically your question is, like, was it this inevitable? Yeah, like that eventually we would come to a world where, you know,

there's not much of a material world in the sense of like we make things anymore, tangible things you can touch and feel and use and have utility. The economy is predicated on vapor. And so all we're left with is like, sort of this might tie in if we talk about the John Hagey thing today but

one could argue that the people in power are calling the things that be not as though they were from the scripture and then what we're all left with the peasantry is just to wager on what that might be

yeah you know so you mean we're like they know the secret hidden truths of the universe but we don't No, that's not what I'm saying. Oh. What I'm saying is that.

Is that. In order to, there's basically, okay, I'm going to take you back to Ned Beatty's monologue and network. Yeah. But the, you know, there are no nations of the world. There's only IBM and do, da, da, da, da, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. There are no nations of the world anymore. It's just Kalshi and Polymarket and Draft King.

That's true. All that stuff. and you know if you're the lay bro then you know you're probably just trying to feel something by betting on you know basketball games or whatever but if you're like you know um think Elon Musk is an aspirational figure then you're trying to get the inside information man to see what's happening on the p2p what will you call call shan pot mark what's the word for him Um, something markets. Prediction markets?

I think so, yeah. Yes. How does that tie in with John Hagee? Oh, um, well, just that, you know, um, I think, in the Bible, it talks about, you know, words being causative and that, you know, God said let there be light and there was life. Oh. Stuff. We're basically ruled by malevolent gods. Oh, we are.

We are ruled by malevolent gods. Or at least one malevolent god. The early Christians thought that the pagan gods were demons. And it's really funny because if you read some of the accounts of the early Christian exorcisms, when the demons would come out, they wouldn't be like, I'm possessive. This is lost. Yeah, they wouldn't do that.

they would be like, I'm Apollo. Like, they would say the Greek god name. Yeah, like that kind of stuff. The demons. Well, I believe they, look how they behaved. I'm Argonous. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna salt your fields and then sleep with your mother.

Yes. That kind of thing. Yeah. Which, I mean, you know, that's, that's, um, what we're saying here is that one man's demon is another man's god. one man's God is another man's demon. It's true. And we live in a fallen world.

We do live a fallen world. A fallen world that when it wasn't disenchanted, at least had the prospect of it getting better. Yeah. But there's something uniquely bleak. And I'm not trying to get negative when I say this. I'm just talking about the state of play as it stands today. Yeah.

Okay. Not a ton of optimism out there. There's not a lot. Not a lot to be fair. I'm not giving up on it. I'm just saying that there's just as it stands today. Not in America. Not in America.

Yeah. Other places probably have some hope. But now on top of that, like, yeah, everything's disenchanted. There are no, something I found myself lamenting this past weekend was there just are not many wild places anymore. Say more about that. Just, you know, there's like. Everything's domesticated? Well, yeah, but like also, too, like you just go up in the woods.

woods and like, you know, you go to your favorite swimming hole. Now there's a, you know, I don't know. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I was going to talk about that. You're just something that's bothered me as those steps they built down the Gabe's branch. But now that just seems like community. I like this is like the most old man crank rant shoehorned into a larger structure. I'm trying to make it a bigger structure. I'm really. I'm really. did truly. Marks wrote about this. Marks wrote about that.

They put steps down to the trailhead. Yeah. It was like when they paved a little shepherd trail, man. That was all she wrote. The old world's gone. Well, you brought up John Hagee. Well. Sword.

Sort of. You said his name anyway. You like how I was trying to do the preacher thing and tie that back into what I was saying. Luckily, hopefully for us, the congregation is like half asleep and not paying attention. Because I've heard preachers do that too. They'll make a crazy, like, lateral move. Like, what? You look around though, no one's paying attention.

My pastor one time said that the fam blew the pages in his Bible away from the message he was preaching. And he just looked at the page. He was just trying to preach that into his previous. message. We can, we've done that before. I had an idea for a show I wanted to do a Sunday service episode actually

on this book that was kind of instrumental in my falling away from the church and this is what finally sent you away. It's not the thing but it was a step in that direction because let me ask you, okay

I just want to go back to Hobbs, New Mexico and early odds you were like. 2004. Jerusalem countdown, that's the last straw for me. Well, it was, I found it to be so hilariously out of touch and absurd, even then not knowing anything about the world, that I was kind of embarrassed. Will the kids say, this is chugie?

It is chugie. Chewky. I didn't have a word for that in 2004, but if I was Gen Z in 2004, I would have said this was chugie. I was embarrassed. You would have been the first one to say it. I would have been the first to say. By many years. Many years.

The reason I kind of wanted to go back and revisit it now in 2026 is because, well, the book is John Hagee Jerusalem Countdown, a prelude to War. I got the revised and updated version now. I found it for $4 on thrift books. But I wanted to go back and revisit it now because we are at war with Iran. Well, and then he said it had begun. What does it say?

World War III has begun. Okay. He says that on the back of the book. The insiders are saying America is at war with a theological totalitarian regime. James Woosley, former CIA director, said that.

That's one of the things quoted on the back of this. It all makes sense now. It all makes sense now. I I so the context in which this was written 2004 this is right after the invasion of Iraq right in the middle of the war on terror post 9-11 and John Hagee for those of you don't know is the pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas now his his congregation is huge he's got like a non-denominational evangelical church and

and it's a big church, right? You could consider it to be a megachurch. You can find his shit. He's still alive. They're no small miracle. There's no small miracle because he's 84 and... And being morbidly obese for most of those 84 years. He's 82, 83, 84.

Something around there, but yes, early mid-80s. And he's been saying the same message for over 20 years now. At a curiosity, when I was rereading this for this show, I went and watched some of his YouTube sermons that he still cranks him out like fucking every week, right? Once a week. And I just watched one from right after Operation Epic Fury. And what he says in Operation Ep,

when he says in that sermon is really no different from what's in this book. He's been saying the same thing, like I said, for 27 years. The reason I was curious is because in this book, he really, well, and for years now, he's really been hammering home that Russia is the... Gong and Maygag? Yes, that like China and Russia and Iran, yeah, that those were the three alliance or axis of evil entities that the Antichrist... Right, and that the Antichrist would specifically come out of Russia.

What is the funny? I can't even like... Dude, you know what's so funny about that? You know, he was like, who's it going to come out of? He's like, no, no. Uh-huh. He's like, well, it has to come out of the one mostly white country of the three-headed prong of evil.

But on top of that, he's just like... He's probably... This is about the same time that the left behind series was out, and they were like Nikolai Carpathia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, yeah, the Antichrist's going to be a slaw for sure. And we've talked about... that we went on the Bible lore podcast and did an episode about the left behind movie with Kirk Cameron.

One of the biggest con jobs in the world had a $2 million budget, and the biggest star they could get was Kirk Cameron. Yeah, and so, like, that's not new necessarily, but his, and he works it out in this, and I couldn't even keep track of it. Like, I'm granted a little sleep deprived on account of having a nine-month-old at home. And also, you know, I just have a hard time revisiting this stuff in general sometimes. But I couldn't even really keep track of what he's alleging here. Basically, that like Russia is the prophesied king in the north from Ezekiel 38. because he's very obsessed with that passage,

the war in Ezekiel, 38 to 40. And he says that like Russia is prophesied in those passages as the king in the north that will invade Israel from the north.

And he's adamant about this to this day. Like I said, like I went back, I watched his thing after Operation Epic Fury. He's still adamant that Russia will invade

Israel from the north. He still thinks. that Russia's going to come invades. During the tribulation, yeah. And that China is, I don't know, I guess I'd have to like try to find this. Oh, this is hilarious.

I also want to point out that this book has some of the funniest sentences I've ever read in my life. For example, two of the most infamous cities that ever existed in history were the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. That's a Trumpian sentence.

It is a Trumpian sentence. That's something like Trump would say. You're doing the most. Very infamous. A lot of bad things happened there. So he like takes, he takes the, the revolution,

the revolution, the revelations, scriptures about like the king in the north, the king in the east, the king in the west. So for him, king in the north is Russia. King in the east is China.

King in the west is the United States. And the king in the south is like Ethiopia or Libya. He doesn't, he can't really like, he's just kind of like, he literally, I think he literally says maybe Ethiopia or Libya. He can't really like, fucking pin it down. King of the South is, ah shit, I don't know. He cares. Yeah, Saudi Arabia. Because this is also a product of its time too.

Like, this was, um, this was before like the message went out that the evangelicals had to love Saudi Arabia. because they're friends of Israel. Because they're friends of Israel or they're trying to be. And so, but this was before that went out. And so this is, this book goes. This is like an earlier directive from his handlers. This comes down hard on Saudi Arabia. This book does.

So, like, you know, there's a lot of stuff in this book. One of the main reasons I wanted to cover it is kind of two or three reasons. One of which is the prophesied war with Iran. that like I remember it's even alluded to in a soprano's episode where AJ's depressed as fuck and he's like did you know we're going to war with Iran

people were talking about it back then remember because we were to Afghanistan and Iraq and then they were like Iran's next and everybody thought Iran was going to be the one that would lead to our undoing yeah that was the thought back then yeah yeah yeah

something a memo Trump must have missed yeah yeah but this was like the holy grail for Hawks for neocons was Iran Yeah. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Bomb Iran.

Now, this book is written from the perspective that a military confrontation with Iran is inevitable. And it is also written from the assumption that... What are who was pumping him full of that? Well, literally Benjamin Netanyahu, who he says multiple times he met with in his office in San Antonio. This is another reason I wanted to cover this book, all right? when we talk about the influence of Zionism and Israel on American politics and culture

there's like 20 different theories like the battleship theory what is the fucking aircraft carrier theory that like Israel is our aircraft carrier in the Middle East right like our extension of our lot house in the region yes imperial hegemony then there's like the whole the APAC lobby

the Zionist lobby that they like control American politics. Zog theory. I think that there's true I think Zog is a loaded term apparently but I think there is some truth to both of those aircraft carrier

theory and the APEC lobby theory. But I think that there is another perhaps very influential or very important role here which is the

widespread prevalence among Christian Protestants and evangelicals of Zionism. You've created a bunch of sleeper sales in the churches of America, basically, for this. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is coming to view for me, okay, since you, because you floated talking about this book, and my only proximity to this book, I think I may have told this story on

the show before. My mom used to work with this woman named Linda, God bless her. I think she was in. had like some, you know, problems or whatever. But her husband was this like reclusive, like, doomsayer guy that was like weirdly considered himself like a prophet and stuff like that. And he was really entrenched in all this kind of stuff. And so she came to my mom's office. I was still in college.

It's probably like 2009 maybe. So I was like getting ready to graduate. And she brought my mom a copy of this. and my mom brought, she's like, Linda told me to give you this. And she said that God told her to, no, it sounds weird to people listening, but I grew up in a context

where people were saying God told them stuff all the time. Yeah, yeah. Perhaps why they were fertile soil to really seed the Zionist message in this population. So she brought it to me and she was just like, he'll know what to do with this. As in you, you would know.

As it may, as it was like it was on, like it was, on me to... I would like to... By the way, to put that into further context that Tom would know what to do with this, just to give you a picture of what's on the front page

of this book on the cover, it looks like an intercontinental ballistic missile. An ICBM is being shot off with a mushroom cloud behind it. And it says, a prelude to war, revelations of world powers on a collision course to World War III,

North Korea's, and Iran's part in the Mideast confrontation. By the way, that's a little bit of a false advertising because this book barely even talks about North Korea. But I mean, I guess... They had to catch a stray. Yeah. Why negotiations with Hezbo and all Islamic terrorists are futile. Those are the promises

made inside this book. Oh, and also all Islamic terrorists are anybody that's not Jordan in these terms. Yes, right. Right. Yeah. At the time. And now that list includes anybody that's not Jordan and a smattering at the Gulf States. Yes. Yeah. Saudi Arabia.

But another reason, another thing that like, so anyways, yeah, I don't want to get ahead of myself, but the, I know that might sound like a trite point that like Christian Zionism is like sort of endemic in certain sectors of American life. But I think, and this is based off of another book I read at the same time that I read this, which I thought was genuinely very fascinating. Let's see if I can pull it up right here real quick. Non-Jewish Zionism, its roots in Western history by Regina S. Sharif. And this book is very fascinating because it gets into the history of Zionism in Western thought. It goes back at least 300 years before Theodore Hurtzol and even the idea of Jewish Zionism came about. John Hagee is maybe one of the most prominent American Zionists, right? You probably say he's like in a top.

Well, you got to understand the stew he comes out of like a lot of people will remember like the videos from a few years ago of Kenneth Copeland popping off on that reporter because he bought Tyler Perry's plane. All these guys are in the same sort of evangelical association. So when I talk about these things, like I reference a guy named Kenneth Hagan a lot. He is like the grandfather of this. And so from him spins off, you got Oral Roberts. Was Kenneth Hague and Pentecostal? Most of these guys are, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I guess you could say, Hagegey is anything non-denominational or charismatic is kind of Pentecostal in origin. I would say this. I would say the worship style is very Pentecostal. They speak in tongues. They believe in faith healing. They, you know, and these are people that have the ears of heads of state, too, by the line. the charismatic movement, I would say, is sort of the Pentecostal sort of has a poor man's connotation to it.

Yeah. So, like, I grew up in a Pentecostal church. It's very much like... It is, we talked about this recently with Alexander Avina. It is a counterinsurgency tool, basically for arresting class consciousness and destroying, like, leftist working class movement. It's a fairly new phenomenon, too. 1880s or 90s,

pretty sure. Even in the 1900, it's like it is first believed to have started, of all places, if you can believe this, on Azusa Street in Los Angeles. In Los Angeles, right. The Zusa Street Revival. Right. People were preaching from the acts of the apostles in the Bible and started speaking in tongues. Also, what they pioneered, they pioneered something that became endemic in all Protestant

strains in America, which is praise and worship music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, like, when you go to, like, a Baptist church like I did, they try to manipulate you into the altar call stuff. That is not a Baptist or Methodist innovation. That's all Pentecostal. But it all bled over into... Because Pentecostal music, like, a lot of rock and roll came out of it. So it had, like, you know, sort of, like, some stage value and stuff.

Later on, you get into the mega churches, like, the ones that aren't, like, baptistling, the ones that are more charismatic leaning will have the big stage. kind of feel to it. But, yeah, so, like, it's a fairly new phenomenon as far as all that goes. And where were we going with that? Well, he's talking about, like, John Hagey being Zionists. All these people that come out of this, this isn't interesting to me. Evangelical. It's really kind of, I mean, it starts before this guy, but Kenneth Hagan was, like, the first

preacher. He would sell, like, mail order cassette tapes that would tell you how to get healed if you were sick and all this kind of stuff. And then springing off of him, you had, like, Oral Roberts, who I've talked about is famously said, you know, they told his followers that God was going to kill him if they didn't send him $11 million in the 80s. Which that will happen to us, me and Tom, by the way.

Also, too, if you don't send us $11,000. And then you have people come off of that like Joel Osteen's father. Yeah. So Joel Osteen's kind of got some mainstream acceptance, you know, now because he's like on TV all the time and all that kind of stuff. But they all come out of this stew. And an interesting thing about them, is a lot of these preachers in this family tree that goes on to include,

even tangentially Billy Graham and some of these big evangelical figures, all of them have, or not all of them, but a lot of them have a similar story that God healed them of tuberculosis. That's their origin story for Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagan, even Brother Claude Ely, which is the church I grew up in, which is a guy that is credited with writing the song, Ain't no grave going to hold my body down as covered by Johnny Cash from those Rick Rubin sessions. But it's kind of funny because I'm reading this book by his son now and going through a lot of this stuff.

But basically he didn't write that song. It's like an old Negro field spiritual. But he added a verse to it and then just kind of became associated with that song and just kind of took a songwriter credit for a song that had been around, you know, since like slavery. He claimed to be healed by bronchitis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tuberculosis. Brother Claude.

Brother Claude Ely claimed to be healed by tuberculosis too. But it's an interesting detail that a lot of these people have is that they claim to be have been miraculously healed by God of tuberculosis. Which makes a lot of sins. If there's really any affinity between Catholicism and Protestantism, or at least Pentecostalism, because this is actually, I think about it, this isn't actually true for most Protestants. This is only true for Pentecostals. is the ability

is faith healing Catholics don't even really do that I mean there are like miracles that happen but it's not because someone laid hands on another person it's just because someone got their hands on like a relic

like Jesus's foreskin you know what I mean like I touch Jesus's foreskin and I go Talismo of some sorts but I've read this really fascinating book this is kind of a tangent but by Adolf von Harnack

Harnock Harnack and who a little controversial because I think his stuff was later used by the Nazis to justify. I would have ever guessed with that name. It's a good book though and it really is unfortunate that the Nazis used his stuff. But it's about the Christianity in the first three centuries and that like what was so innovative about Christianity was that they build themselves as physicians. They're genuinely like the concept of healing like the ancient world had kind of run up

against the hard limits of its own, like, sort of technological and ideological capacities. And also, this was a pretty peaceful time in the first century. And so it's like people were casting about, like, well, life is kind of relatively comfortable and peaceful, like,

but we're still dying. We're still sick. You know what I mean? That's a good environment for, like, Christianity to take root. But that makes sense because the Pentecostals, more than any other, like, strain were trying to go back to the original,

works of the disciples in Acts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is kind of strange to think about because a lot of Protestantism is obsessed with the Old Testament. You know what I'm saying? No, yeah, yeah. Like, if you could say anything about Protestants, it's like they're kind of subliminal

or subconscious disdain for Jesus. And I'm not being glib. I'm really not. Like, say what you want about Catholics, but they actually do very much. fixate on Jesus, the passion and all this. Protestants are obsessed with the Old Testament. Like, genuinely, like, in the continuity of Christianity.

That's because Protestantism is, like, inherently punitive, not just, like, in, like, orientation and outlook, but to ourselves, you know? Well, and there's a specifically historical reason for this, by the way. The historical reason is because in the Reformation, once the Old Testament began to be translated into local dialects and languages, it opened up all new vistas of thought for lay people in Europe. Specifically, it created the fetishization of Hebrew. And this was one of the early roots of non-Jewish Zionism.

That, like, Christians, like, in their obsession with the original... Because, by the way, look at the fucking... Look at the context in which this developed. Christians themselves are, you know, non-Catholic Christians, were being persecuted at this time. And so when they translated the Old Testament, they found affinities between themselves and the ancient Jews, you know, exiled from Israel and sent to Babylon and losing the favor of God and all this. And they found affinities between themselves and with ancient Judaism. And this created an early kind of, like when we talk about the idea of chosen people, this was really foreign. Like, it didn't exist really before the Reformation.

The idea of Jews as the chosen people. The idea of a chosen people in general, it's a very controversial one, but it goes back all the way to like Paul and like the covenant, who are God's chosen people. But the fetishization of it begins in the Reformation. And so I guess what I'm getting at here is like I'm just pointing this up So the sort of is this where like I'm sure there's

You know I don't know but I'm sure there's like Like Is this where like basically the resurrection of Hebrew as the official language Of the Israeli state sort of Kicks back into consciousness It starts back it all starts here And this is the this is the This is my point. This is what I'm getting at here.

There has been a lot of discussion over like, you know, again, what is the nature of America's relationship with Israel? What is the nature of America's relationship with Zionism? And what is Zionism? And my point is that, and I'm not saying this, I hope this will not be construed. I'm not saying this in any way to let Jews and Judeaic Zionism, Jewish Zionism, off the hook. My point though is that Zionism has its roots in

Protestantism. You only get it because of something like the Reformation, which you only get because of a Catholic church. And it's, you know, the contradictions within it. And it's unable to reconcile a response to that. Right.

And also the other thing about it is, is like, we sometimes view Judaism as the source material that was like here oldest and longest ago, and that's not, that's just not exactly true. Like, rabbinic Judaism sort of co-evolved with Christianity. Right. They were like brothers rather than like a father and son kind of.

Well, I want to talk about that because, okay, so this book, this Hagee book, the, like, because I've been trying to think about this for fucking months, right? Like, really years. Like, what even is Christian Zionism? Like, what is the specific insecurity or something? know how to word it. Like, what is the vacuum in Christianity that Christian Zionism fills or triggers? Maybe that would be a different way to put it. Like, there's something about it because, like, reading this book, dude, John Hagee is obsessed with Jews. Yeah. I'm, I'm like, well,

dido Mike Huckabee, who is kind of like their man in Havana. Yeah. I mean, like, even I remember as a young man, Mike Huckabee would pop up on Kenneth Copeland show, would pop up on John Hage's show, would pop up on, like, the Roberts' programs and stuff like that. He was kind of like the sort of Christian Zionist sort of mole in like government and stuff. Yeah. I mean, there are many, but like he's kind of the most noted one. Hence the reason he's the ambassador to Israel now. Yeah.

And it's weird because this book lays out an entire theory and like history and timeline of anti-Semitism. Yeah. Okay. And it's interesting to me because, again, I'm trying to understand like what is Christian Zionism? Like, it is really a real. incoherent. It is one of the most incoherent ideologies in my opinion. Just on its face. Just on its face.

Here are some of the ingredients that I just wrote down. Antisemitism. It's one of the main ingredients in Zionism, obviously, because the reason why, without getting too deep into it, and I will in just a second. One of the main reasons why is it accepts the premise of anti-Semitism, which is

not that anti-Semitism is weird and perverse and not normal, which it's not. It is very abnormal. Anti-Semitism is abnormal. It's weird. But Zionism accepts that it is normal and will never be overcome. It's just an immutable condition. It's an immutable

exactly. I'll tell you this and I it's it's kind of strange how pernicious this idea is because I was I won't say who I was with but I was some family members and we were talking about Palestine, Israel and and so forth and like you hear all the talking points that the Zionist lobby is thrown out there. One of which is like Jews have always been the most persecuted people, you know, like from time immemorial.

Which is like, which is like, it's such a weird, like, point to make. And I'm not saying that Jewish people have not experienced discrimination or anything like that. The fact that you even have to qualify it with that is very interesting. It is interesting, you know what I mean? But it's like, like, you know, what are we talking about here? Like getting into Harvard, you know what I mean? Well, it just depends. If you're looking at the 16th century,

the Jews were not the most persecuted in the 16th century. You know who was? The Anabaptist, the Frank. Like, these were not, like, Jewish communities have experienced waves of what we would call, like, Judeophobia. There's this reason I brought this book

called Traces of History by Patrick Wolfe, elementary structures of race, because he gets into the history of anti-Semitism, and he uses one of Hanna-Rent's essays, which, you know, all the capital, that's about Hanna-Rit. But like, just like she was a virulent racist

against black people, for example, other people. But, um, but, like her thing is like, anti-Semitism is only a distinct form of Judeophobia. Jew hatred. Like it goes,

like, you could probably say that what you would call Judeophobia goes back in its roots to, well, obviously to the beginning of Christianity, but even that's complicated because Christian,

started as a persecuted group persecuted by Jews, right? Like this, and so it, you're, in this book does this a lot and Zionism does it. It reads ancient things, it reads ancient things through a modern lens, right? Through like the present lens, the lens of the present day. And it assumes that like you just said a second ago, that the Jews are so mystical and they're so like outside history and time that they are, like anti-Semitism is an immutable force of history. kind of it's it mirrors in some ways what like um like sort of liberals tried to do with black people sort of ascribe like supernatural qualities to them just by virtue of them being black yeah and also by virtue of like the different like terrorism and hardships that they've faced

historically in this sense and i said this to you the other day but in this sense like christian Zionism, or just Zionism in general, is the, it is identity politics taken to its logical extension. And all I mean by that is that, like, the premise of identity politics is that, like, you are virtuous, noble, and good

by virtue of belonging to a certain group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you can do no wrong. And that, like, if you take it far enough, what you wind up with is the vision of history outlined by Hagee here and by all Zionists, which is that the entire world, and I'm not even exaggerating. Read this book.

This is how Zionist think, too. The entire world since the beginning of man has failed Jews. Billions and billions of people, the entire apparatus of history and institution and progress of human thought and development and class formation and all this. All of it is a conspiracy and plot to destroy Judaism. and that is a patently insane paranoid thought that like we can hold two thoughts in our head at once

that Jews have been persecuted throughout history and endured one of the most horrific crimes ever done to humans in the Holocaust and the simultaneous thought that like they are not the main characters of history and that like the entire world is not a plot against them that like unfortunately Hannah Arendt had it correct when she said

anti-Semitism is not about the Jews. It was unfortunately a conjuncture. It was like several different contingencies flowing into one historical moment. One of which was mass immigration into

Germany in the industrial era in the 19th century. Another of which was this latent class anxiety by the bourgeois by the bourgeoisie in Germany about like their own mobility and the potential mobility of the international proletariat like all of these things were they were ingredients that

float into the Holocaust my point here is that like if you operate from that position now like think about how bleak that is dude think about if if you if you really accept that that means that god has hated billions and billions of people since the beginning of mankind but has only really fucked with like a few million. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's also just at odds with the idea that God is no respect your in person if you just take the scripture on its face.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I've always, that's always a tug of war that I've always, when I was like a young Christian Zionist, you know, when I thought that like, you know, as a young man that like we had to pay some special fealty to Israel, otherwise we would end up on God's bad side or whatever. Like, that was a thought that I just couldn't wreck it. I was like, well, if God's no respecter of persons, then why is there a chosen people?

Dude, I've been thinking about that lately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the fact that, like, we grew up in an environment where we just accepted as dogmatic faith that Jews were chosen people, the chosen people. You know, I want to say this, and I want to be, like... It's a kind of... It's almost like a... It's like a kind of a modern version of a superstition. Yeah.

You know what? Yeah, yeah. It's like I said, it's a kind of mystify, it's a mystical thing that like, it allows Israel carte blanche to do whatever they want, you know what I mean? Because it basically says like, well, if your God shows people,

you can just do whatever you want. But like, what I want to say is that, let's just set aside the, like all the politically loaded implications of this, right? Theologically, Christian Zionism doesn't make, a lot of sense. And there have been multiple attempts to make it make sense, like dispensationalism and all this other stuff. But I genuinely think, and this is kind of my theory about Christian Zionism,

is that it is a crisis of faith for Christians. Because I'm just saying this, and I'm not saying this as a Christian. I'm saying this as someone who once was a Christian. But if you want to be consistent about your beliefs, you have to, you're going to have to, I'm serious. Like, I don't really know how else you come around, like, how you square the circle of Paul and Romans saying, like, you know, we have come out of the law, right? Like, like God's covenant with Israel was manifested through the law. In this case, the law was literally circumcision, having your penis cut, which was probably really weird to a lot of people. Paul is saying

you don't need that anymore we have faith faith that is our covenant with God that is the essence of Christianity so I do not see how you then come around 2,000 years later and be like well maybe God has a covenant with two people

I'm sorry that's not possible he either has a covenant with Jews or with Christians take your fucking side that's all I'm saying and I'm not saying this is a Christian. Like I'm, I'm, I'm not a Christian. And again, we can't choose one side and we've rejected the other. Yeah. So it's like this superposition, this ideological superposition that makes no sense,

but I think that like four, 500 years of enlightenment and reformation thought have kind of led them into this blind alley where like they don't even know why they believe. Because genuinely like reading this, it's incoherent. Like I was saying a second ago, these are the ingredients of Christian Zionism as I take it through this book. Antisemitism. Antichaelism. Islamophobia, right? Paleo-conservatism. Anti-Lutheranism.

I'm saying this is how extensive the anti-Zionist plot of history is. That like even John Hagee hates even Martin Luther. Like, who was an anti-Semite sometimes? But also in the grand scheme of things wrote some like what things that would be very

progressive about Jewish communities at the time. So I mean, it's anti-British, anti-American. Like, Zionism. Well, even a blind squirrel finds a note every once in a while. I'm just saying, like, none of these, it makes no sense. But what I was thinking of when I was reading it,

I was like, this sounds like woke. Like, genuinely, like, the way that, like, the woke construction of a lot of things is like, the mayor-west white people, blah, blah, blah, cellic, I mean, and I'm, obviously like a third worldist like and I you know criticize settler colonialism I'm anti-settler colonial but like you can take it to a point where the entire narrative or flow of human history is one indictment against and this was kind of

the 1619 project right like that like all of history is one conspiracy against one group of people and it's like that I mean that's not the way human history works like I but if you're not a Marxist I can see how you would get into that position you know I don't know I'm just saying like yeah yeah yeah stamped from the beginning

in the case of Ibrahims yeah right right right right where that's like it's just kind of a yeah where like race and racism are not like emergent ideological forms

but immutable things from time from the foundation of the earth exactly yeah and as the literal name suggests exactly so I don't know I mean I just I just point that out Because

something that, like, I've just been wondering is, like, what comes next for Christian Zionists, like, when this... Well, but you know you heard about the heifer. They've bred the heifer. They have bred the heifer. Even though I saw some pale hairs on the hind side of that thing.

I don't know if it's pure red, but it's not my call to make. Yeah, I mean... I don't know. Maybe it is. Maybe that's my mom's co-worker. That's maybe she was getting that. You don't know what's...

to do with this. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I mean, this is why I think everything feels very fraught in like end of days because this is kind of the end point for several different strains of

religious thought in the West. That have just always been an hour lifetime. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like kind of strange to think of this as like the end of like you know, both forms of Christianity as we know and in Judaism.

as we know, as we've always known in our whole life. Well, and that's the thing. And I think Patrick Wolf points this out in his book, which is that Zionism basically makes the same structural, I don't know, basically the same structural pitch as Christianity, early Christianity. Whereas with early Christianity, the pitch was, like, Judaism is now irrelevant.

It's an ancient, you know, residual force in human, life. Like, Christianity is the update on it, and so it's basically superfluous. Zionism basically says the same thing about, like, diaspora Judaism. Basically, that, like, the only, like, diaspora Jews, diaspora Judaism is redundant. It is a negation. It doesn't matter anymore. The only real covenant, the only real strain of Judaism is Zion with the state of Israel.

Israel, which is, you know, kind of a recipe for a death cult, obviously. Yeah. But like, I don't know, man. I just like, where I keep coming back to, I guess what I keep coming back to is that like... There's a class connotation to this too, because like, wealthy American Jews are not kicking down the door to move to Tel Aviv. No. No.

No, no, no. But what they're saying is like the, we need cadre here to shore up this project. and like if you are, you know, poor Jewish people in Eastern Europe, for example, like this should be your, you know, whatever. Yeah. They're not necessarily poor, but just, you know. Yeah, it's like if you have money and means you're exempted from, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know, it's weird. I guess what I keep coming back to, it's like, there are several different ways that Jewish, Zionism ends, which I think it has to, because I think as Patrick Wolf points out, that like, Zionism only exists as long as Palestinians exist. Like, if they ever succeed in completely wiping out all the Palestinians, like, they themselves will collapse. Like, like, Jewish Zionism is predicated on, like, an outside identity that has to be eliminated and erased. Yeah. Um, but once that outside identity is gone.

Like, they themselves, like, for example, and the reason why is because of the specific racial composition of Israel, where you have Ashkenazi and then Misrahim and then Misrahim and Sephardic Jews. And Mizrahim and, like, formerly Arab, I mean, they are currently still Arab, but, like, they don't see themselves like that. You know what I mean? Like, they're one of the most conservative factions in Israel, actually. But, like, once you lose the Palestinians, then those Misrahim just become Arabs again.

You know what I'm saying? The point is, is what I'm trying to. show is like there's a racial caste ideology only your belonging to Judaism exempts you from the same

violence and subjugation and so forth and so if that's the case but what happens to Christian Zionism like non-Jewish forms of Zionism which as I've said have existed in Western Thorosis is going to take care of them

I would imagine diabetes gout so forth so called diseases of success. But yeah, they're just sort of going to be left without a project. I mean, this is what this incursion into, I mean, I'm not saying this definitively because what I know about it is fuck all.

But it seems to me that the incursion into the Levant, into Syria, into Lebanon, and places like that is tied up in the acknowledgement, or at least a tacit acknowledgement, that like, well, with the Palestinian... situation resolving. There's got to be new tension in order to justify not necessarily justify

because I'm not even thinking they're looking to justify but in order to like keep this thing going because it has to have a cohesive sense. And what's kept the cohesive sense is this was deeded to us. You know what I mean?

Narratively speaking, you know. Yeah. I mean it's it has to basically what you're saying is it has to keep it expanding in order to... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in that way, it mirrors the colonial homeland in America.

You know what I mean? It's got... And, you know, the same thing that we're going to be... That we're doing simultaneously, if you look at it, is just... And where the two converge, it seems, is in Latin America. But, you know, the United States realizing we're not going to be able to compete with the kings of the east and the north in... Right.

...in Europe and Asia anymore. So we're going to retreat and focus in the Americas. We're going to like really like, you know, you know, really roll with this monitor of doctrine thing and try to impose our will in Latin America, you know. And they do that in a couple ways. The obvious ways are like going after Venezuela and Cuba, the remaining socialist states in America or whatever. But the other way it plays out, which is interesting.

And I'm curious how it plays out. in the whole context of this, is like Israel's incursion in Latin America. Like, and then with the news that, you know, that I think it just passed yesterday,

actually, that, that we're much closer to the U.S. and Israeli military is being merged as one. Right. Yeah. You can imagine a world

where we pop out on the other side, like a wealthier version of Bosnia and Herzegov. It's like, are we just going to be in the United States and Israel? Yeah, that's a good question, man. I don't know.

It's like Christian Zionism is a millenarian project. But really it's a, it's weird, dude. It's like layers wrapped within layers. Because it's millinarian, but it's a political project, obviously. Well, I mean, to tie it back to this, and I'm not trying to jump around too much, but just to finish the point about the Latin American tie. And it's no coincidence then that evangelicalism, Pentecostalism stuff, are becoming massively popular in places like Brazil

and Latin American and stuff like that. That's no accident. Ditto Africa. It's kind of insurgency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's what it is. I think that's what it is because it says to you, here's an identity preferable to the one that is on offer for you.

God wants you to be well mentally, physically, spiritually, and financially, most importantly, because part of the value sell to these people is if you've been, you know, raised in the flavelas of Brazil and not had much, or if you've grown up in sub-Sahara, Africa, subject to everything that the United States and other external forces have put on you

in famine, disease, all these things, robbed you of your resource and all this stuff. Like, if I could just tangibly believe in an omnipotent God that wants me to be wealthy, you know, like, that's like, that's probably, might sound pretty good. I don't think that's like a dumb proposition, you know what I mean? Yeah.

But especially if I'm looking for, you know, a faith center. But how widespread this stuff is all of a sudden when I was a young man growing up, this was very niche stuff. You know what I mean? Like, I remember, I mean, I would, dude, I was crazy. Like, I was like, I would, like, be reading Orwell Roberts books, like, seed faith and how I could, like, sow my seed in, like, fertile soil and that God would bring me a harvest to make me wealthy.

It was all predicated on stuff like that. God wants you to have this financial success. Yeah. That's the underpinning of all this stuff. And you look at the logical extension of that now. Hell, last week, the woman that was doing the book signing and the person starts falling out in spirit.

My dude. This stuff is gone like mainstream. You know, it's like it's, it's nothing I could have ever predicted, but it also makes total sense when you really look at. It does. I think Pentecostalism is, I mean, I heard Matt Christman describe Mormonism one time as like, and I hope I'm not mischaracterizing this.

I'm pretty sure he said it was like the quintessential American religion. And I, and that's true. I sense that it's a real estate scheme masquerading as a religion. Well, yeah, in the sense that it actually has, it makes the same claim that Zionism does, which is that we were the original people. here first, which like no other Christian religion strain does that.

No other Christian. Now they make claim to like manifest destiny and like because we work, we do X, Y, Z, we have the claim. But Mormons do what Zionism. Mormon does what Zionism does, which is because of things that happened 3,000 years ago, we have been here this whole time. We've just been occluded.

And therefore we're coming back to take our rightful thing. Also, they believe that. Jesus Christ visited Mexico and Latin America. Yeah, right. So it's at least consistent. Well, but you see how like that bit of lore is like, you know, very important to like, well, why are white people here in the middle of Americans? Right, right, right.

Well, Jesus can't, you know. And like, Zionism makes the same claim about Judaism that like, that, you know, Israel is the home The home of Ancestral home. And like the thing is That's just I mean there's all kinds of different

conflicting histories And as long as the state of Israel exists We'll never even really Be able to do good Historians will never be able to really do good research Archaeologists will never really be able to do good research on it Because it's always warped The field is warped by the

Hasbara right By like the fucking Forboding presence of Israel But like there's probably pretty good evidence that the Palestinians today the people who are Palestinians today the people who are displaced in the Nakba

are just the original inhabitants of Israel there was no mass exodus or exile right like after the Romans destroyed the second temple there probably was some people that left but there probably wasn't a mass exile the people just stayed there and over time converted Islam

you know what I think of Well, and also, too, like, even in Christ's time, it wasn't referred to as Israel. It was referred to as Jewish Palestine, like the part of Palestine and the West Bank where he would have been from where there was Jewish settlements. It's kind of like a neighborhood. You know what we're talking about is like it's impossible to make any claim of... Palestine was still called Palestine. Well, right, but I guess my point is it's impossible to make any claim of continuity because you've got like there, you know, Arthur Kessler made this. argument in Shlomo sand that like um as well in that book the invention of the jewish people that

like the jews living in the pale of settlement um were the product of mass conversions that took place probably in like the eighth century something who knows if that's true or not the point is is even if it isn't true we still don't have any hard record of continuity right between like how did so many Jews wind up in what we would call the Pelo settlement. Well, we know how they wound up in some parts of the Middle East and Europe and everything. But like, this

3,000 year deed or claim on the land is just as worth the fucking paper or whatever it's printed on as Joseph Smith's to America. Joseph Smith found the gold bar right. And my point in all that, what I was trying to make anyways, I was trying to say that

like Pentecostalism and American Protestantism in general, you know, it doesn't make quite the same claim as Zionism or Mormonism. You know, you know, obviously like anybody who studied like American settler colonialism is familiar with like John Locke and like Manifestin, Jefferson and all this. But like Pentecostalism is also the pretty quintessentially American. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I think it's like, well, obviously the origins. as we know, today is here.

But also, it spread rapidly, not dissimilar to Latin America and Africa, where you have, like, a lot of resource-rich places that are experienced a lot of poverty because it's outside influences of, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, this whole thing. And, yeah, I remember growing up being, like, kind of ashamed to be Pentecostal because, like, all my friends would go to, like, the first Baptist church, and they had, like, you know, the choir. And it was, like, it was obviously this was, like. more buttoned up. It's more buttoned up, but it's also like this is where the more affluent people go. Whereas I went to church with like a lot of poor people and like, you know, like, it's just what it was.

It was like, it was religion for poor people. It's kind of, it is in the same way, and this is the reason it's quintessentially American. America is, has done amazing things in false consciousness, in like class disorganization, working class disorganization counterinsurgency and like Pentecostalism is like fucking made in a lab

for that for that like and maybe literally yeah even literally maybe even literally I gotta look into this but like yeah like the whole concept

of getting the Holy Ghost which is that is Pentecostalism's like proprietary thing right and I see it all the time

and I wonder what the dimensions are there when I was a kid I spoke in tongues and I think about that all the time I'm like

was that something I just did of my own volition? And I'm not sure what the answer is, and the closest thing I could come to it is kind of like, maybe it's like an emotional experience. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like cheering at a football game or basketball game, starting yelling for your team or whatever.

I think humans are highly, highly suggestible. Yeah. Like I think that you can manipulate certain things in an environment to get them to do pretty much anything and get them to believe in pretty much anything. That Adolf Harnock book I was telling you about, like he was talking about like an early christianity reports of demon possession

were most common after a sermon about demon possession yeah you know what I mean like that's the kind of that's how suggestible it's why they're still sidekicks in business yeah right like if you can just like float the idea or you know preach about it convincingly enough then someone's like and then

it's double whammy right then you get to come around and be like well cure you the demon possession too you know what I mean it's good for business It's good for business. The Joe Dirt thing. Yeah. Show the fire cracker of the bullpen. Exactly like that, brother.

Sorry. That's the first reference I've ever made on this shit. No, Joe Dirt? You like Joe Dirt? I like Joe Dirt, yeah. Although I think David Spade's kind of a shithead or something, dude. That sounds real. But, you know, John Hagey, man.

Back, something, back to the, this book, there's something I just like want to point out. This is so fucking funny. Just like how vulgar Christian Zionism is that like it is history read exclusively through a modern lens. For example, I don't know if I can find the exact. It accepts a lot of foundational myths before you even get to any of the heft of it. You know what I mean?

It's almost like you have to believe that George Washington chopped down the cherry tree and babe and the big blue locks or whatever. Yeah. I just turned this page on accident. I told you there's some really good funny lines in here. Without an explanation similar to that which have just been given, one might ask, if God makes me hard,

why does he blame me for being hard? It's a good question. We've got to clip that and put it out there. That's true. I mean, I've wondered that myself for a long time. God, you did that. You made me this way.

I love, like, some of his stuff, though, dude. David attacked and drove out the Jebusites and ushered in the golden era of Israel which by the way just kind of there were other people living in Jerusalem before but whatever dude well like even okay so you go to the Bible story right

you have like David takes on Goliath Goliath was a Philistine yeah Philistine being associated the uncircumcised Philistine basically denoting that they are, they are, one, not Jewish, but two of a simple kind of people. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, it's like, that's how, like, Philistines where we get Palestine, Palestine, that's where we get the word, you know, and the name of it. It's like, it's like, there's been this discriminatory, like, sort of, like, smear job on Palestinians long before they were even, like. Well, and it's, it's, like, so. Like, if you, even today, like, if you refer to somebody as, like, simple or uneducated or something, you'd call them a Philistine.

Well, it's like so muddled too because I don't think any of this in the same way that like I don't think anti-Judaism or anti-Semitism is like immutable in age old. It's like I was saying you a second ago. Like I am kind of of the opinion

and I don't have a ton of evidence for this. Obviously I don't think anyone does. But I am kind of of the opinion that the people we call Palestinians today and the people displaced and the Nakhba and the occupied territories and everything else

are just the original inhabitants. The people the antecedents. King David. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what, you know what I'm literally basically the descendants.

I mean, that's taking it a little too far because, like, that isn't even, it's impossible to. Well, I think at that point you're kind of leaning into some of the same mythological structures as Zionism. Like, I don't think you can go back further than like

maybe 500 years. Jesus Arab question mark. Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Um, but like,

laying claim to like, power structures and development of history. Like, it, it has a shelf life at a certain point. I don't know. Because a lot of these Zionists will be like,

well, what about the Native Americans? Like, you know, um, you know, would you, say give the land back to all the Native Americans, but

the thing, the problem with that is that there's no actual clear continuity like we said between like Jews in the present day and the Jewish people that lived there two, three thousand years ago, right? Like that's, that is a... Whereas we know the Native Americans were here 250 years ago. Exactly. Exactly. Well, and also we are basic most of this off of a fucking old-ass book, which is mostly propaganda and lore.

And there were, we know this for a fact. There were other peoples living in Palestine. That were not practicing Jews, right? We know that there were anti-Jewish sentiments in the ancient world, but there were anti-Egyptian sentiments. There were anti, you know what I mean? like it's not like there was again there's not just like this conspiracy from day one like that ignores the actual historical contingencies that had to have happened to for something as awful as anti-semitism

to develop 19th and 20th century anti-Semitism to develop in the first place like by like compressing and conflating it all like you've completely erased the significance of it and that's really what's disgusting about Zionism too in many ways. He's like, aside from the fact that it is also a settler colonial project that's trying to eradicate an entire people. Yeah, yeah. But his whole like reading, like I said, reading history through the modern lens, Jerusalem held the northern and southern tribes of Israel together and was the basis of economic and military control of the Middle East. There was no Middle East back then. Yeah.

There was no such thing as the fucking Middle East. Yeah, that's. We hadn't, they weren't even aware. Does he think there were Muslims back then, too? probably yeah Islam comes 800 years after this you know

almost a century later and his like his his whole thing about Islamophobia which we haven't even touched on in which you know

like we're well over an hour but like you know he lists out like the differences between Christians and Muslims and I just was cracking

I was cracking up muslims he believed a lot and Yahweh and Jehovah are like separate entities Yes, dude Listen to this Muslims worship the moon god of Mecca called Allah

Okay, okay, okay, okay, I want to say this I want to say this That is a patented lie And that's also something that he plucked From a Jack chick track Yeah, oh, 100% Like that literally That's like the shit Jack Chick used to say in those tracks

Muslims say Allah is not love But Christians say Jehovah is love It's like he has, and he makes this point multiple times in this book that like Christ's message is to love. But he has the most virulent things to say about Muslims. So clearly like it's not love for Muslims. You know what I mean? It's, which granted, we're calling out the hypocrisies of a fucking more, like a submental moron. Yeah.

So it's a pigish man. Yeah, like it's hard to really like take. I mean, it looks like a pig. He looks like a pig that got caught underneath that like steamroller and naked. gun you know what I mean like when OJ falls off the building whatever you know he like is flattened he looks like you can't breathe good Muslims say Allah is not a father but Christians called Jehovah Father Muslims say Allah cannot be known in a personal way but Christians say Jehovah can be known personally I personally think that it's way more realistic to think that you can never

know God in a personal way what do you mean you can't know God in a personal way what do you mean you can't know God in a person. That's the whole concept of a God. God is not a person. You can know a person in a personal way, but how can you know a God in a personal way? It's just a conflict in terms. It's just like what? Yeah, even the Bible says that you're fucking wrong. The Bible says

God's a spirit must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. Yeah. In the way that I interact with you or somebody else, you know? It's a classic example, though, of the bastardization of any the Christian tradition. Like, like and I don't want to be too broad here,

I think there are probably strains of Protestantism that do, that I think are interesting and do try to at least be, what would the word be? At least a little virtuous and honest. But mostly at this point, it's like we were talking about the other day about how charismatic and denominational is on the rise. And these churches don't require any of their pastors to go to like seminary or anything. No, no, no, no. It's just like, yeah, you just have to feel the call of God. It's just like fertile soil for con men. It's all bastardized.

It's fertile soil for con men, exactly. And more than that, too, dude, it does feel as if though, like, I don't know, carry on. I'm going to push that thought out a little bit more. Okay, all right. Muslims say Allah made a covenant with Abraham to give the promised land to Ishmael's descendants. But Christians and Jews say Jehovah made a covenant with Abraham to give the promised land to Isaac and his descendants. Muslims say Jesus was created from dust like Adam but Christians say Jesus was born of a virgin

Well not all Christians say that But most do you sure Muslims say Jesus was a messenger of God But Christians say Jesus is the son of God Muslims say Judas Iscariat died on the cross But Christians say Jesus died on the cross Wait how long is I don't know I hear the fuck no

You're right This is all Jack Tray to I think his understanding of Islam is like, I don't even know. I would even put it at it like a, like I feel like I knew more about Islam in high school than he does. Dude, his, this is all like weird, like conspiratorial stuff.

Well, and it's all derived from literally Benjamin Netanyahu. They are buddies. I cannot stress this enough. One of the most powerful men in American politics, Benjamin Netanyahu has a direct line to John Hagey's congregation of 18,000 people. Now I ask you, is that inconsequential? No.

It's not. Well, and also, too, when you think about, like, yeah, it's, I was thinking about that. Like, I first got this book handed me in, like, 2009. And it's like, oh, this shit have been seated in all these evangelical churches, like, 10, 15 years ago. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, this, like, they're way ahead of the fucking. curve on this. Like now it's all come. This is how these fucking conservatives stay in power. They like sort of plan. It's kind of like what Josh Poe was telling us about. Like Mitch McConnell's like sort of big bed on like, y'all should take the bout. Y'all should take the bout.

Because he knew the Democrats would fuck it up later. Yeah. These are how these, the conservatives stay in power because they're really good at forecasting and planning for the future, even if they're not winning in the moment. Well, and it's not hard to do when your opponent is as feckless as liberal. So, like, they know for the fact that liberals will never, ever match that energy. Match that energy. So, like, it's, yeah, it's easy.

It's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, all the Democrats have to go on is, occasionally charismatic figure, and you'll win the presidency a few times in a row, and then everything will just go back to normal. Yeah. So, like, Hageke talks multiple times about how Netanyahu came to his literal office in Cornerstone Church in San Antonio. But like, you know, and then obviously this book is a kind of classic example of how, you know, someone did like a mash-up montage of Benjamin Netanyahu making the claim for the last 30 years that Iran was just two days away from the book.

This book makes the same thing. It's like, oh, he reports he has a mysterious source in Israel. And the mysterious source is probably Dan Yahoo himself. That's a mayor sign. They're two months away from a bomb. Again, this was written in like 2004. But I mentioned this on another episode, but one of my favorite,

I think the thing, maybe the thing that got me really questioning my, like, are these honest brokers, these Christians I know and, you know, intercede with, interface with, was his recipe, on page 43,

the six-step procedure for making a nuclear bomb. Dig it, crunch it, bake it, spin it, spin it again squeeze it it's the bop it thing it's the bop it like the whole premise in this book is that Iran cannot get its hands on instructions for making a bomb

and here's a six point procedure he's like here's what the Iranians cannot get absolutely cannot get their hands on here it is and he can help himself because it's like they want the fucking end of the world man I mean I'm thinking about like well you would

too if you couldn't breathe good. That's true. I don't know. William Blackstone guy, who was early Christian Zionist and who gave Herzl the idea of colonizing Palestine. I think his journey is one of the most fascinating journeys

and I think it's emblematic of Christian Zionism. Blackstone was his name? Yeah, William Blackstone. He started out as a pre-millanarian, like a pre-millennial millennial I don't even know the difference

between all these things because I can't keep them straight because there's big difference on like do the Jews have to be saved for converted to Christianity before Jesus comes back

or do they will they convert that was a big question when I was a kid I was like and then the answer is sobering it's like well only 200,000 of them

144 thousand 144 thousand yeah it's numerologically and significant yeah yeah yeah but he started at

Blackstone started out is that oh I get it now because like 12 times 12 12 is 140 Yeah, 12 tribes of Israel, yes. It's stupid. It's an extreme. That's...

So, but Blackstone started out as someone who... Landed on the... You know, if you read the revelation's quite reasonable assumption, which I don't think it's reasonable, but again, if you believe this stuff, that in order for Christ to come back, Israel had to be reconstituted, right? And so he built... and so he started trying to sponsor people to colonize the quote unquote promise land.

By the way, there were already Jews living in this area, old Yushiv or whatever. It's like, you know, Jews had been living in Palestine for at least since like the 17th century. And Zionists hated them, by the way. But, uh... Oh, like the pre-Zionist Jews that had already lived in, like Arab Jews or whatever.

Right, right, right. They'd been living, yeah. And again, Zionists hated them. Because Zionism was a colonial, a European colonial project that accepted all of the bleak priors of European colonialism. And said that, like, we'll gladly separate and segregate ourselves from you. Like, let us do that. Like, you know, again, it's anti-Semitic. That's why the whole, when they call anti-Zionist Jews self-hitting Jews, every accusation is a confession.

Like, it is a self-hatred. It's a psychological kind of thing. Exactly. But, um... I was watching something about, uh, this guy, it was like this video, and this guy was a professor at Oxford, maybe, and he was an Iraqi Jew and grew up in Baghdad and all that stuff. Which had the largest Jewish population in the world, by the way. Half of Baghdad was Jewish.

Baghdad. Prior to the creation of Israel. And what he said was that, like, there was this pressure on his family to move to Israel. And his mom and dad had resisted it for a long time. They were like, we're Iraqis. That doesn't make any sense. Like this is where our life's in Baghdad. Why would we?

You know what I mean? And he's like, and then there was, you know, I mean, you hear this a lot. You know, it's like, you know, like they'll say something like, you know, like our Muslim neighbors, we didn't. There wasn't any sort of. That's why the pitch was weird because Jews in the Middle East didn't experience the Holocaust. They hadn't even experienced anti-Semitism in the way that European Jews did. That's why the whole pitch of Zionism at first was like so strange. And that's why they had to do literal terrorism on the Baghdadi Jews, by the way.

Like, they were bombing their communities. To make it seem like it was more unrest than there was. There was, yeah, what would be considered close to a pogrom of Baghdad Jews. Because a lot of Arabs were like, wait, you're going to displace and eradicate Palestinian Arabs? like that didn't sit well with them and then they you know turned against Jews in Baghdad it was very bleak it's not good

and the whole history is just like a fucking do you think like I mean I'm not you know not when I say this I'm not like making any inferences on Saddam Hussein's character

or personhood or anything but do you think like the systematic elimination of the pan Arabists was like specifically I mean, Yeah. One,

100%. 100%. No doubt about it. Yeah. Where are we going with that a second ago, though? About... Jews living in the Middle East. Right, but before that.

We were talking about... Oh, Blackstone. William Blackstone. Okay. So his story, I think, is emblematic. Because he... He, again, came around to the position that in order for Christ to come back, Jews need to re-inhabit the quote-unquote promise land.

Again, this is also kind of a reformation idea. Like, I think if you were to go back far enough and tell Catholics about this stuff, they would have, they had no concept of chosen people. You know what I'm saying? Like, the covenant was with Christians. Anyways. But Blackstone, in the process, you know because he became a phylo-Semite because he like very shrewdly and cynically wanted to use

Jews to force the hand of God yeah which is incredibly blasphemous but which all these Christians all these Christians Ions want by the way they think they can read the mind of God because they think they know God personally it's this absurd it's not really just listen to these people too they will tell you that God tells them things it's not religion this is not religion this is schizophrenia yeah yeah if if It's either con man shit or schizophrenia. Yeah, or both, right, right, right. Or a little bit of both.

But, like, in the process of trying to force the hand of God and bring about the second coming, he got to know several Jews and then learned about the pogroms in Russia at the time, Saras Russia. And became a huge advocate and, you know, became a huge advocate for Jews and like the Pail of Settlement and in Saurus Russia and everything. thing. And so basically what I'm saying here is his millinarian, like, end of days, frothing at the mouth theology led him to a actual material position in the real world, which was that, like, anti-Semitism was bad. And my point there is that, like, that's kind of also the case for, like, John Hage and a lot of these people, that, like, they start with a frothing at the mouth insane

position but didn't work backwards into like a material political position about the world. I mean, it's hard for me to say whether Blackstone's convictions were genuine or not. Like, I tend to think he was pretty cynical even up to the end. Like, he really only wanted to raise awareness about anti-Semitism in Zaris, Russia, because he really wanted the world to end. And I think that that's also the case for Hagey and a lot of these guys, too. It's why, it's the only way I know how to explain why you would put. the instruction manual for making a nuclear bomb in your book about why your enemy doesn't need

the nuclear bomb. It's like, granted, I know it's more complicated than what he's saying here. But my point is, is that, like, he's that just reckless, and they don't care really about the continuation of human life. They just want mass conflagration and the end of humanity. Make Kevin Crowded, as Erica Kirk says. Yeah. Make Kevin Crowded.

So do you think that's what it is for the end of humanity? them they want they wanted to end and they want to go to heaven or whatever and they think they're doing god's will by bringing on the end of the world i guess so but then again i look at the guy like there's it's also like too it's like that's probably the motivation for some of them but i'm curious what like the more con artist uh yeah orientation i think he is a con artist yeah i think he's more of a cynical con artist yeah for sure so it does make you wonder yeah like does he is he that my very My take on them, just being, having grown up in this stuff, is I think that they are both con artists and true believers. But I think they think God has ordained their con.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I think that is entirely possible. Because I think Kenneth Copeland believes what he says. He believes. I just don't, I think it's totally lost on him because he is a reprobate, or the reprobates mine. That it's totally lost on him that, oh, God might not. condone like me fleecing shut-ins for money.

Right. You know what I mean? Well, and I've thought about this, though, too, and I want to go back to something I said a second ago, which is that sometimes to me Christian Zionism reads as a crisis of faith. Like, I really, and by that I mean, they are so eaten up with the doubt. They're so eaten up with doubt and a possibility that their faith may not.

be real, that God may not be real, that that's why they crave the second in the second coming of Christ. Does that make sense? That's why they crave the end of the world because they they have a secret doubt that has over time hardened at this position. Catholics aren't millinarian like this. You know what I'm saying? Like it's granted there's a lot of structural things that flow into that. But like Protestant is Protestants because they're kind of they're working with a I don't I don't I don't want to be as glib. I don't want to be glib enough to say that, like, that's all bastardized. Because I see what they're getting at.

I see that, like, their critique of the Catholic Church is that, like, you know, the Catholic Church, like, perverted and distorted the Word of God and, like, look at Acts, like what the original church was saying and doing. We have to get back to that. I sympathize with all that, and I understand. But at the same time, they're... I guess it all comes down to their interpretation of Paul. That's kind of the keystone here, and I can't really get into that here.

But it's because it's so multi-layered and multifaceted. And also open to interpretation, by the way. So, yeah. I mean, because, like, they are all obsessed with, like, Romans. Yeah. For example. Like, what, like, what is Paul trying to get at? What is he trying, is he, is he saying that, like,

yeah, that Judaism is a relic and that we've moved past it as a historical development. I don't think they viewed the two as like, and I think, don't think they viewed the two as separate. You know, I don't think they viewed, I mean, we put Judaism in a box and we put Christianity in a box, but like all these people came out of the same sort of society, the same sort of culture, the same sort of ethnicity. That's what I'm saying, him reading a modern thing into it. It's like these, yeah. There was not Christians and Jews the way we categorize them today. Exactly.

You know what I mean? And there wouldn't be for probably about 100 years. Yeah. Like after Christ, right? And Muslims wouldn't be until 800, 900, 900 years later. About 5, 600. Oh, okay. About 5, 600 years later, I think.

But yeah, no, I mean, you're right. is that but it but it does get it a I don't know that's why it's kind of like it is all kind of like bastardized it's derrassinated it's like what are you even dealing do we do any of us even know the terms of what we're saying even Islam is like is like you know the correction of what those those people got wrong you know what I mean also those people being like the same people that

Muslim people come out of you know in the region so yeah well i mean without getting into romans one through 11 which i'm you know we're not gonna be able to do here because that is entirely open for interpretation and i was just we're going to start something about gay stuff yeah the gay stuff yeah what y'all do what you're it's just gay stuff you're doing gay stuff yeah it really did come down to that a lot because again dude imagine you're an early christian evangelical Jewish Christian, by the way. And you're trying to preach the word of Christ,

but you're saying that, like, people have to get their dicks sniffed. Like, that's not a... That's old shit, man. That's not a winning message. That's old shit, man. Paul was smart. Like, these guys were just marketers.

Like, they understood. Like, look, you can't convert people to a religion where you have to cut your penis. Snipped their shit. Unless you're Tony Ducapil. I mean, he'll do that. Yeah, that's wild. But, like, in summation, all right,

I want to wrap this up. We're recording this on July 23rd. This book is about World War III, right? Which, it's kind of not, like, he spends so much time talking about anti-Semitism and about how Muslims are the worst people on the planet and all this. He only really spends a few pages. I'm serious. He only spends, like, a few pages talking about the coming World War III.

So it doesn't really deliver on what it promises, unfortunately. But also, I genuinely don't think he even knows there's a difference between Shia and Sunni Muslim, by the way. I don't think he says that once. I don't think he cares. But the cultural context in which this book was written is that conservatives and evangelicals... We're in Iraq, right, when this is written. Right, right. Well, right, the United States was in Iraq.

But conservatives and evangelicals in America could not... never, ever countenance that Iran would beat our fucking ass. This book and everything else at the time was written from the premise that, oh, it would be terrible if we had to go to World War III at Iran, but we'd kick their ass. No, dog. We never imagined we could lose. We never imagined we could lose. In that, that sentiment is so, like, widespread, even today.

I saw this in Al Jazeera. Well, let me ask you this, Terrence. But at the same time, that's, I mean, that's the opinion of the masses based on perception of the United States and the bloodthirsty nature of the military and so forth. But internally, internally, I saw this thing the other day. It was fucking disgusting. But basically that the United States had marked that children's school where they, I was a Mono. Yeah. Had that basically had it marked as a target since 1987.

Jesus Christ. Now I say to you, if you were a country, well, a good and virtuous country from one, but two, a country that was pretty sure of its prospects if you ever went to war with this country, would you be doing shit like that? Bombing a girl school? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's... That's desperate shit. Yeah, 100%.

And the idea of inherent Iranian... or Muslim or whatever weakness, global South weakness, call it that, is so prevalent and widespread in the West. I saw this in Al Jazeera. Both Iran and U.S. quote, need to think they have lost. Both sides need to believe they have lost

if negotiations are to resume. Says Martin Griffiths, former UN humanitarian chief and executive director of mediation group international. Dude, they cannot countenance. There's so much cope going around. that like they cannot countenance that Iran won. Yeah.

Dude, how can Iran admit they lost when they won? They did not. When they did not lose. But that's big, but we're over here. We're so warped in our thinking. Down is up,

up is down, but we just think if we say something now that it's true. Yeah. That's the basis for our economy now. Going back to the call shit and polymarket shit. This is where our head is at. The Iranians are still based in reality. They're in reality.

Right. Yeah, they live in the real world. Say what you want about how they run their country. And, you know, it was probably, they probably got a little out of hand when they put a fatwa on Simon Rushdie. That we may have been a little agro. I wouldn't say so, but, you know, some might. It was interpreted as a little agro to some, but they're in reality.

Yeah, they're in reality. But, you know, like, it's like, but it's just, it's the two mentalities. It is the reprobate mind versus the reality-based mind. The reprobate mind, of course, the reference to, you know, you'll be turned over to a reprobate mind to believe a lie, and then therein lies a damnation. The Iranians are, that's a society. They've been here for a long time.

They're going to be here for a long time. We're just, we're trying to strip this thing for parts while they're just focused on, like, how do we keep our society, you know? Well, and as we're recording this, I just saw it right before I came over, Trump said, we're going to hit them very hard, harder than we've ever hit them tonight. And he's been saying this for months. And I don't doubt it.

They'll keep killing children, hitting cancer wards, you know, all the insane shit that they do. But none of it will take back the fact or erase the fact that Iran won. They had resolve. They had a plan. They analyzed the situation. soberly and saw where there was a chug point or

a point of leverage and they fucking win for it and I don't know my point is that this book is a product of an empire right before it really dies you know what I'm saying it's like the final triumph at like

you know we're so awesome history's on our side World War III will start will win and God will take us up in the heaven yeah no It's all dead. Do you think God would ordain the murder, slaughter of children, all this things that we do?

And that's all we do now. That's like what the war machine is now because it's not even focused on. We don't even go to war for any ideological aims. It's like we go to war so that some guys can make money on Kalshires. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's like, I don't know, man. It's so wicked. And no amount of cope and no amount of, like, like, we're going to hit a margin that and all this bullshit is going to change the fact that, like, they're still going to be here and we're on a way. In Zionism and Christian Zionism and Christian, like, or American, I think conservatism, too, might actually be dead. Yeah. Yeah, there's, it's possible.

Well, you know. Maybe. I mean, but they're going to, what I'm saying, they might take everyone out with us, with them too. Yeah, I said this when we were talking about the World Cup a couple weeks ago. But if you look at just like the World Cup as a symbol, like, as just like a representation, there was. us something interesting here. All the traditional powers having to employ all the tactics of empire, all the chequets, all the little chicanery and shit to still stay on top. While the small countries just let them put them on notice. Like we're not going to be pushed around anymore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they lost in the end because, you know, fuck shit arguably and all that stuff. but it's funny to me like how like as much as like this World Cup was marred by like you know the Trump's like cheating and like the corruption of FIFA and all that kind of stuff it was still to me a powerful sort of allegory for what's going on over here in the real world yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think that's happening I think Iran's showing that I think you know I mean whatever criticisms you have of Iran and China whatever you know that's it's hard for us to say in through the western lines. I just watched a video of cops

point blank execute a guy in Madison, Wisconsin this morning. So I'm not... I'm not gonna be sitting here fucking like, you know, uh, you know, they do have human rights abuses. What the fuck do you open the eyes here? Fucking flock corners on every, or fly cameras

on every goddamn corner of this country. Like you don't, everything you do is watched and you will be killed if you step out of line. Like, this is a fucking, totalitarian place. whatever. And it just, it happened that way

before we knew it, you know, when we quit caring about our privacy and just said surveillance and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway,

if there's a glimmer to hope take from it, I'd take that from the example of, you know, these global South countries that are just, you know,

basically saying, now we're not going to be pushed around by the West anymore. Well, we'll see. I mean, if every accusation is a confession

when, under trauma, Zionists' mouth. This is a Jerusalem countdown. There will be World War III, but I don't know. I think maybe United States and... Revaluate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because, like, the Houthis have now shut down the Red Sea. Dude, things are heating up fast. And we didn't even heard from the kings of the east and the north. Yeah. So, I don't know. We'll see. Anyways, interesting book. Don't buy it or check it out or read it.

I mean, it's like I said, it's got some funny lines in it. I think I, you know, I'm pretty sure I got to. If God made me hard, why has he mad at me for being hard? Why is he made it for me being hard? Yeah. He will be shot. Yeah, anyways. Yeah, some good stuff in here, man.

Some good stuff. a good funny line to take us out on. All right, let me see, I'm just trying to, I'm just, let's see here. Let's, let's look at, oh, I love how he talks about the issue of women's rights. It's like John Hagee, I know for a fact you don't give a fuck about women's rights. Let's see. Unveiling Islam. Unvailing Islam, there's a chapter called Unvailing Islam.

There's also a chapter called Who's a book? is a Jew. Oh, my God. And I like how he calls out Bush for not being Bush. Bush. I can't do. John Hagee

sounds like... Bosh? He sounds like if Bain was from the South and had trouble breathing. This is really funny. The Roman Catholic Church, which was supposed to carry the light of the gospel, plunged the world into the dark ages. What?

A lot of the gospel And plunge us into the dark ages He says that the Crusades were motivated by anti-Semitism That's fucking nuts That's crazy I love We did do like a whole series on like Evangelical like pseudo like revisionist pseudo history

Yeah Because like all these guys David Barton who I think up until recently was one of Trump's, like, uh, had some position or some, you know, measure of influence with the Trump administration, was one of those guys.

He would write these books and go on the, like, the evangelical TV preacher circuit and like talk about like, actually people don't know that like, um, you know, uh, Thomas Jefferson prayed five times a day and,

it's all, it contains like a weird contradiction though, because, people in his same milieu are also the same people who are like obsessed with Judeo-Christian values but like is the Crusades doesn't Pete Hexeth have Pete Hegseh have a crusader tattoo on him So like were the Crusades anti-Semitic? What are you guys even trying to say? Like I don't understand.

Was he taking the Christian church to task for the Crusades? Yeah. Say they were anti-Semitic. I'm telling you, Hagee, like if this is Zionism to distill, it is anti-everything. Anti-Europeanism, anti-Gatholicism, like everything. The enduring thing that I remember about John Hagee, because my mom would watch him from time and time.

She wasn't his favorite or he wasn't her favorite or anything, but she'd watch him from time and time. I was watching it one day, and he deliberately said Christians need to quit trying to get Jews saved. Jews don't need to be saved. Yeah. He says that. That's what I'm saying.

Which is heretical to Christian doctrine. Now, I don't have a dog in this fight. Like, who cares from my perspective? But if you are a Christian, then your imperative is to go out into the world and convert everybody. Both, the Bible says, both true and Greek. Yeah. And I think the thing is, there are several different strains of Christian Zionism, but I do think most Christian Zionists think that. Like, I think that, like, some of them will kind of like try to obfuscate that.

obfuscate that or they'll try to like or they'll be open with it and be cynical like yeah well you know we'll convert them once Christ comes but I do think a large segment of them represented by Hagee don't think that they should ever and he says that explicitly

in this book too and that that was what Paul was getting at in like Romans 9 and 10 and 11 that like they were trying to preserve Israel and the Jewish race which also is again a weird

It's a very weird character. Yeah, as the chosen people. And it's like that that is heretical. You're right. That's anti-Christian. Yeah. I don't. I hate to sound religious or like Bill Maher in 2009. A guy that also used to rail on people for religion

now believes there's a biblical deed that, you know, that Jews have to the Israeli homeland now. But really and truly, you're awful shit. Let's just celebrate the best of our traditions. There's a guy... Get rid of this other shit. There's a guy I really like named Gary Burge, B-U-R-G-E,

who's written a lot of good stuff about this. One book is called Who's Promise, whose land, and then another one is about Jesus and Holy Land theology. And I think he... If this is your bag, if this is your thing, and you're trying to square the circle, I think he does a pretty good job

of laying out, like, how to be Christian, how to believe in God's covenant with the Christian people without being anti-Semitic or or Judeophobic or whatever word you want to use and like how to be consistent about it and I think that yeah

there's ways to do it there's people that have thought about this but this Hagey's a crifter and he's not one of as I'll close on this consider Adolf Hitler wrote a book titled Mind Conf which means in German my struggle the Islamic word jihad means my inner struggle

again the question must be asked Both an Arab and German scholar, this guy. Crazy. It's just like dog shit, like brain dead shit like that. I wonder how he feels like John Hagey's wife is Mexican. I wonder how he feels about like ice and what they're doing to Mexican people. I'm sure he loves it. I'm sure he fucking loves it.

Fucking, fucking peed. Well, anyways, thanks so much for listening this week, everybody. As I said, this was supposed to be a Sunday service, but this week got all out of sorts with our schedule. So we just had to make Sunday service a regular episode this week. But if you'd like more, you can go to our Patreon and check it out. And we encourage you to do that, please. Well, thanks again, and we'll see you over at Patreon on Monday.

Adios.