Trillbilly Worker's Party - **UNLOCKED** Apocalypticians At The Gate

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

People have asked us to unlock our most recent premium episode, so here it is. Recorded on 10/30/23, with a few new things (music + sound bytes) added in. Music produced both in-house and by Lee Baines III You can find more episodes like this over at our Patreon: www.patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty Also check out these recent podcast appearances: Rock Hard Caucus Podcast: https://soundcloud.com/rockhardcaucus/124-flock-of-dudes-with-tarence-ray-10292023 The Worst of All Possible Worlds Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/108-dc-talk-jesus-freak-feat-tarence-ray/id1570782388?i=1000630930270

Thank you for watching! Are you ready to have not one conversation conversation but two perhaps even three three levels of conversation of conversation i'll be honest with you guys i tap out at 1.5 convo yeah i was about to say that's a discourse-ception man yeah discourse-ception leftist discourse now is discourse-ception it's like you think you finally realize what people are talking about and then you and then you realize you have yourself been unwillingly enlisted in a larger discourse battle you know what i mean like you you you look out you like oh my god there's two or three levels of discourse going on above me and i'm just down here man it's like uh it's like uh or three levels of discourse going on above me. And I'm just down here, man.

It's like concentric levels of hell, man. It's Dante's Inferno. You know what I mean? You're being enlisted in the archdemon's army. Yes. It's like Jacob's Ladder. And here the whole time you thought you had your finger on the pulse. Yeah.

No, no, no, no, no. I did not. You had your finger on the pulse of roadkill. Someone had their finger on my pulse. What are the discursives going on? Well, Aaron and I, before you got on, we're just talking about the discourses around decolonization and how when we brought it up a few weeks ago,

it's like I just assumed decolonization was like a historical process sort of like the industrialization i didn't think it was like i didn't know it was like this or maybe maybe i'm mischaracterizing it wrong but it seems to me like there's a certain like cadre of like leftist well actually academics who are saying that this that decolonization is an off-putting like ultra abstract ultra-abstract campus exercise. And that's an addition. I would tend to agree if we were talking about decolonizing our music library or decolonizing our bookshelf. But when we're talking about decolonizing a place,

I have to push back a little bit. Yeah, the thing that was in response to the thing in the Atlantic about decolonization. And, and that in and of itself was, you know, bottom of the barrel discourse. So,

I don't know. Are we talking about Caitlin Flanagan's? Well, no. I like Caitlin Flanagan because, like, every other tweet

is her, like, quoting from, like quoting from like Virgil or like Ovid. Rumi. Yeah. Well, we were saying, Terrence, for Tommy, I don't know, we were saying that. Or I was saying that it feels like these terms like degrowth. And maybe you saw this a little bit with defund the police. And maybe you saw this a little bit with Defund the Police, but it seems to be co-opted and then kind of twisted around and regurgitated back out for like, you know, like people that aren't in the know. I guess normies, for lack of a better term.

It feels co-opted is what it is. You know, this is why we're seeing like that article we were just mentioning, or at least the headline. We need to decolonize Russia. You know, what is that? At that point, again, it's like what we were saying last time yo it's like we've been saying especially the past few weeks we're moving further and further away from what things actually mean yeah into this amorphous territory where anything can mean what you want it to be as long as you're getting paid the big bucks you know that is so true like we you're right we have entered in this like annihilation territory where like words

have simultaneously lost all meaning but at the same time accrued meaning beyond power itself on earth so that like yeah even discourse on decolonization is a sign of the generation of the left and it's like and it's and when you say stuff like that i'm like wait what like and people say people say that about like degrowth too i'm just like i mean just as a lay person as some numb nuts with a bachelor's degree living in like the rural sticks of kentucky it's like it does seem kind of axiomatically true that we do need some level of degrowth in the sense that the capitalist system is based on infinite growth so exactly exactly as a fallacy i mean it's weird i really i really

like that annihilation annihilation analogy um because that means that we not the left but we three here as the tardy boys our job is to go into that that no man's land and parse out the discourse i mean everybody's already dead we've showed up like 24 hours later like no one is there it is a true no man's land and we're showing up like with our little toolkits like yo where'd everybody go we don't prevent crime we just analyze it afterward exactly we're post facto you know uh-huh man that's a great that's a great well so this is a great Tardy Boy prompt then. I have an excellent Tardy Boy prompt. I was thinking about this all weekend.

It's like, yeah, okay. So it's like before we stray too far from like the proper tone and imperative for this episode, just want to remind people that like this weekend was one of the darkest in human history, or at least since i've been alive since i've inhabited the planet in the great year of 1987 um israel had cut off all electricity to gaza at the same time that it began launching its ground invasion and so over the course of like saturday night friday and Saturday night, you just had this like constant stream of photos of them just tearing down buildings, dropping white what appeared to be white phosphorus on multiple neighborhoods, like leveling entire neighborhoods i mean and then like obviously

two days later once they finally start getting internet back you finally start getting videos and streams from what had actually happened and uh so i mean yeah my i don't know about y'all but my timeline was just filled with people basically pulling children out of rubble paramedics and journalists just breaking down just reaching their absolute like physical mental limit you know and uh and i it was apocalyptic man it was it was truly it was true not to cut you off turns i just want to say man i was thinking like you know um you know posted it but um you know uh william gibson has a as a phrase that's attributed to him he didn't really say it but the sentiment um he's definitely expressed is that the

future is already here it's just unevenly distributed distributed right and i always think about apocalypse right i think about the end of the world i'm an apocalyptician and dude like the apocalypse is here and has happened for many communities and seeing the pictures before the bombing of gaza and after i mean it looked like a nuclear weapon had been you know had imploded right it's it's just apocalyptic is the only word i could use for it yeah well and i saw like videos today of uh i saw videos today of tanks shooting at just passenger vehicles just cars in gaza uh they bombed a refugee camp in the west bank uh what's happening in the west bank has not even been talked about in the media

it's just a virtual um i mean because there's no hamas there to sort of justify so they're like let's just talk about that as little as we can, because there's really no justification for the barbarity there. There's no justification for the, and the thing is too, is that by not talking about it, you're not linking, you're not, the underlying premise, right, is that it's a genocide is what it is.

So even if the West Bank is not, you know, is not governed by Hamas, right, of course there's still settlers going there with the sanction of the state to terrorize people, burn down their homes, you know um it's not governed by hamas right of course there's still settlers going there with the sanction of the state to terrorize people burn down their homes you know but of course the media can't talk about that because then that would poke a hole through there well this is about terrorism you know yeah yeah well it seemed that the one of the crazy making things from the last few days has in america anyways has been the stubborn just more than stubborn like the brick wall resistance of anyone in the united states government to have like even the uh you know even to call for even anything resembling a

ceasefire where they can't say that word, first of all. Like, that is a word that is off-limits, apparently. So you get these weird, wacky fucking attempts to say somewhat of the same thing, like humanitarian pauses. Yeah, I've never heard of that term. Dude, I just think that, I mean, like, shit like this is always so horrible

because you see the worst in humanity. But, like, some of the worst and the worst and the most depraved shit is when people come up with new terms and concepts to explain away, I mean, genocide. Like, humanitarian pause is such a cursed term, man. It's like the blast. Yeah. Well, you're right. It's these abstract things that happen for no apparent reason you know the the liberal conception of the world is so wild in the sense that like everything really

is sort of dematerialized like things just explode without any causation but like and then words that previously meant things no longer meant mean those things but then we have new phrases and words that are like wonky and strange like humanitarian pause or like you had tammy duckworth saying that like we will not call for a ceasefire because that would be harmful to the palestinians like wait what are you talking about that one boiled me that one boiled me it's like we we can't call for these people to quit being bombed because that would just do them no good. That's insane. What the fuck?

What kind of world? I don't mean to be crude, but you're literally missing legs because of warfare. And you're fixing your fucking mouth to say something like that? Yeah, man. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, it just inverts.

I mean, I have to use the wearing your skin inside out, man. It just inverts everything that you know to be right and true. And the people who are actually committing atrocities are the victims here. And calling for a ceasefire is immoral. Like, what kind of fucking world do we live in, dog? That's insane. Well, and their line that they keep coming back to over and over, spelled out, I think, most explicitly by hillary clinton today but like you see it with like john fetterman and even bernie um is that calling for a ceasefire would benefit hamas they keep saying

this that it would benefit hamas that it would work somehow work in their favor and i mean i just was i've just been thinking about that over the past few days like what does that mean like what do they mean? It would benefit Hamas. Like, is there a specific scenario you're envisioning? Like, perhaps they call for a ceasefire and then Hamas just doesn't adhere to it at all and launches another attack and manages to kill another thousand Israelis. Even if that's the case, that would still be a fraction of a fraction of the number of palestinians that have been killed so far so i mean again in every scenario it is just a tacit example of how

palestinian lives matter less than israeli lives the other the other part about it is if if can they not if they if they believe that hamas is an is Islamist group on par with ISIS or whatever, right? Like they're saying, like that's their line, Hamas, ISIS. Right. Trying to draw those associations. Right. Can they not see the 30,000 foot view of how the constant barbarity is a gift to Islamist groups? Right, right.

You know what I'm saying? In terms of, like if what you're saying about Ham of like if you if what you're saying about hamas if you really believe that yeah the worst thing you could do is not a ceasefire well the point is straight up regime change we said it two weeks ago it's that is 100 what's going on and what they're trying to do and they will do anything and everything to accomplish that i mean and even you could even say i really do think the point is probably cleansing gaza entirely like literally pushing them into egypt yeah two million people being pushed into egypt and i mean well go ahead no you go ahead no i was just gonna say i mean like one

thing too i think that um you know i know i know that we've talked about this the propaganda especially but um the the their their bottom line of ethnic cleansing right i think has been so much more apparent i mean it's apparent to us obviously but i mean unless you're just like fucking like i mean just complicit or you are like you're just dead brained man is all the propaganda that i've been seeing this past weekend, man, where the IDF made this statement and released this video that was in English. Right. Arabic subtitles. Right. Talking to the citizens of Gaza, Gazans who have no electricity, who have nowhere to go. And this IDF soldier is telling them in English once again to head south, which they've already bombed South Gaza. So it's like, you know, all of this i think felix had said it on twitter i kept thinking

thinking about this it's like every bit of propaganda every country does propaganda right every country does propaganda but it almost seems like like israel's propaganda is meant to to have like the american like political class go along to see what kind of shit they could throw out there what insane shit they could throw to see if it sticks, to see if they believe it, you know? Because if you're publishing this video in English, talking to Gazans who have no electricity, obviously that shit is not for Gazans, right? That shit is for Western audiences, British American audiences. And for you to watch that as an American politician or as like a political or a pundit, whatever,

and say, well, they're, they're doing unlike Hamas, right? They're doing the humanitarian thing by warning people. I mean, again, you have to be complicit or just like baby brain, man, you know, I just, I just don't see how else you can see it. Besides, like, their propaganda is cover for genocide. And they're trying to get the rest of the world to nod along with it, right? Yeah, I think that that I think the thing is, is that by doing stuff like that, they're trying to sort of destabilize reality around you to that you get. I mean, we said that we said that a few weeks ago that like it is mind war in the sense that like they are trying to get you to a state that you are entirely not only unsure of yourself, but unsure of reality. and that is that is a a mental state that makes you very vulnerable and likely more likely to either support what the u.s government says whether it's that we have to continue letting

israel do this or to enlist in the military i mean like the enlistment this is a total tangent but enlistment in the military has been abysmal for years and this is something that they talk about all the time at the pentagon they always talk about it in the Washington Post, about how they need more people to enlist. I mean, I'm not saying that this was why this happened. I mean, just that, like, you can see the various strings that they can pull at to serve their needs as it so fits them. Like, war is good for us as well.

We talked about that in biden's address right like you you know what in order for um in order to revitalize the american economy um brown people are gonna have to die in the middle east yeah yeah well and the whole thing man it's like just the way everything becomes so simplified and cartoonish like, what was that thing that Netanyahu said about the Amalekites? You remember that? Yeah, yo, what was that, Tom? Yeah, in the book of Samuel, yeah. Like, we have to do what God said in Smythe Amalek.

Yeah. Who is Amalek? Is he a nation that was opposed to israel or something like like like how much time do you have i've been thinking about this because i've been trying to think of like how what what value could i add to the palestinian movement i think the only thing I can do is to help, to the degree that I can, deconstruct sort of evangelical eschatology. Yeah.

Right? And what they believe about it, which is going to be an uphill battle because you're talking about people who have staked their eternal destination on the idea that as soon as the temple's built, Christ returns and smites all of our enemies and reigns for a thousand years and all that stuff. Binds the dragon up in its chains and casts him into the lake of fire. Uh-huh. God.

And so that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about basically lunatics. Yeah. And the one thing I've been trying to think about is like the absurdity of a people who worship a god from the west bank of palestine right even under today's lines jesus would be a second class citizen living under apartheid in the west bank he's from bethlehem still in the west bank lines and i think about the absurdity of that all these people carrying water for this Living under apartheid in the West Bank. He's from Bethlehem. Still in the West Bank lines. And I think about the absurdity of that.

All these people carrying water for this fucking psychotic regime when their God, whose people are the ones who are being oppressed. You know? Yeah. They don't think about that. They don't think about some of the oldest Christian churches in the world being in Palestine. That was the thing about that decolonization article in The Atlantic.

They were like leftists come up with a simplified schematic where the Palestinians are people of color and the Israelis are white people. And it's like, well, you're really not helping your case when you're just wantonly bombing all these like Palestinian Christianinian christian sites all over the fucking oliver gaza in the west i mean or rolling out people that look like fucking heidi to promote the idf on tiktok exactly or just the fact that i saw this video where um um somebody from puerto rico i think um i don't know she's an influence or something but she was responding to uh somebody commenting like stick to puerto rico right and dude she did this amazing breakdown of colonialism and i mean i'm fucking sorry given world history i mean it just so fucking turns out that european western powers that were dominated by white people went to places that were black and brown overwhelmingly and exploited them yeah i mean this whole entire sort of racial how can i call it it's like the racial sinew right you know that

keeps all this together i'm sorry you can say that yeah sure there are palestinians who are white passing or light-skinned there are israeli jews who are darker they're ethiopian jews but dude even if you want to talk about ethiopian jews solomon teka who's 19 years old fucking shot by a 90f officer in i think 2019 and there were mass protests. I mean, if you even talk to an Ethiopian Jew about how they're treated in Israel, right? Then, I mean, you'd have your fucking answer. If you really were curious about, does racism actually play a factor?

Of course it fucking does, dog. Well, also consider some of the places that they looked to put Israel first. Like, you know, they went shopping around. They looked at Mozambique. They looked at Uganda. Uganda. Uganda option was one that like...

Argentina. Yeah. You know what I mean? Before they settled on, well, probably the easiest way to make this myth is to go to the Holy Land and carve this up. But even in Christ's time, you had Jewish Palestine, but you also had Gentile parts of Palestine. You know what I mean? Islam's not around for about 600 more years,

so obviously they're not factoring in here. Right? But what we're talking about is the people that are native to this place, you know, irregardless, well, irregardless is not a word, regardless of religion, it's just never what they what they say it is yeah well i mean it's

i guess that like the well actually people do have a point in the sense that yes you can't transpose american i've always hated this term but like race relations i don't i fucking hate that term too dog it always makes me think about like what are you talking about we will go to olive garden bro and sit down and fucking have our limitless fucking like garlic breadsticks bro and talk about this shit like come on dog yeah for better lack of a better term let's sit down let's sit down over a tour of italy my man and hash this out you know what y'all can't get to come to the cookout and we'll hash yeah well let's say okay you can't transpose like american race critiques and american race ideologies to this area in the middle east that is true but at the same time you can you can transpose the critique of whiteness onto this in the sense

that like white is this very fungible category that can be used and deployed for a colonial a system of colonial exploitation and i think that that's operative here i think it's very obvious that that's operative here especially in all the propaganda that israel puts out and in the way that it's like read in the american evangelicals mind again like this is part part of this is that like in this really weird very anti-semitic way like the christian evangelical sees all this as like things are finally just moving right settling into place just the fulfillment of prophecy the bird man hand rub that's the other thing man is instead of viewing that that's that's the problem with trying to reason with these people too is they don't see children and parents and grandparents and all these people being massacred

as a humanitarian crisis they see it as the fulfillment of prophecy yes yeah and that is the disturbing part of it that is why that is not christianity that is white nationalism laundered through the lens of christianity so as to insulate it from criticism same thing that zionism's project is doing in judaism same thing that islamist ideology is doing with the isis and these people yeah right right they're all fucking reprobates yeah yeah. Well, and also just like, yes, evangelicals and conservatives in the United States, the way that they engage with this is purely as spectacle. I mean, it is like they see this entire thing, yes, as like fulfillment of the prophecy. And that's why they're able to completely sort of disattach from it and sort of like laugh at it from a distance and say that like it's all sort of like moving

as prophesied. It's all like... Everything is going to according to plan. Everything going according to plan. So you've got the conservatives like dealing with this

as pure spectacle. You've got the liberals dealing with it as pure illusion in the sense that they can't... They don't deal with the facts on the ground

as it is at all, but they still have to deal with the sort on the ground as it is at all but they still have to deal with the uh the sort of like political concerns with the diplomatic concerns of it and then you've got the leftists who are the only ones with any semblance of a critique of what's actually happening who are engaged with the reality in any conceivable way and again that's i'm just speaking to how it plays out in america but that's just how i've seen it because there's just been a lot of confusion over the the past weekend for myself

included about like why like i mean truly like why can't even like bernie and i'm not like holding him up as like this saint or martyr of american leftism is like the is the coming second coming of christ or whatever for social democracy but like that is like the most principled or historically the most principled of our reformist politicians right exactly he might not be a bolshevik but he's like he's you thought he would think he's pretty fucking decent right right yeah like why can't even he call for a ceasefire you know what i'm saying which yeah as a side tangent can you guys imagine how fucking insane it would have been if bernie would have won the presidency and bernie was president right now and he was and he was saying like no no ceasefire see calls i think i would walk into the sea dog

i would i would lose all faith in anything at all it would have shattered the left in so many different ways i would have been like homer simpson in the bushes but not it wouldn't be bushes it would just be flames just slide back into the place i would just yes just self-immolate it's like the movie us yeah we're like where the other doppelganger walks back into the fire yeah but i mean i don't know man it's like you know um i i expect this shit from Hillary Clinton, you know, I mean, like she's never going to be fucking president. And I mean, she's a fucking ghoul. But like, yeah, man, you're right. It's like you would think that even among the people that are political pariahs within not just their own political party, the Democratic Party, but within political society, despite the fact that like or the political spectrum, the fact that i think most americans agree with you know an aoc type or a bernie type with a social democracy but you would even think man that you have nothing to lose right they've hung you out to dry like you are a clarion voice in the wilderness for 40 something years

and on this one fucking issue at the end of your fucking life where you don't have anything to lose it's just like it's again i think what you said the annihilation example terence was really good because some people just don't want to walk into the into the annihilated zone dog or they don't see it it does not exist to them you know or they're already in it and they don't even know that they're in it exactly they're already in it they don't even know they're in it i think that there's two or possibly three things going on here i'm going to try to make this argument. One of which is that the United States government and everybody within the top of the United States government, including Bernie, who if you're in the Senate

for as long as he's been in, you eventually start getting included on national security briefings. Like, that's just the reality. If you're a senator for more than, like, two or three decades, you get brought into the uh the club with the joint staff because like at a certain point your job becomes maintaining the union the constitution maintaining empire maintaining empire and so like i think that part of it is that a lot of these

people have so thoroughly they've so thoroughly internalized the idea that palestinian lives are like just entirely worthless as compared to israeli lives that like one israeli life is worth 1 000 palestinian lives i really do think that like they don't even know that they're operating on that ideology but that is what they're you know what i'm saying well dude that's that's exactly you're fucking right because we saw those with biden doing genocide denial which that okay that leading into the weekend that leading into the weekend fucking i think that was last week late last week it was last it was yeah broke me dog that fucking broke me and yeah you're right i realized it was like dude like all right so how many israelis have died they said like 1400 right and how many

palestinians have died 8 000 so like if you wanted to do that kind of like oh well one is really life is worth uh 2015 american lives what biden said then how much is a palestinian life worth you know and then like if if you can't even if if like i think matt stoller had a tweet yo they had deleted and i'm just using him as an example because these are the people that are ostensible leftists or progressives at least right who are still like fucking walk towing line towing the line with like fucking butcherers right it's like oh um how is it possible that there's that many women and children it's like dog these are people like biden who has access to information right matt stoler wrote a fucking book dog you have the wherewithal to do research it's not about you

add do you actually doubt these claims it's like what you said terence they don't think palestinians are human beings do you see it right their lives are's like what you said, Terrence. They don't think Palestinians are human beings. Do you see it everywhere? Their lives are worthless. You see it everywhere. Like, they are constantly, like, I saw this tweet going around of pictures of Palestinian people bathing in the ocean.

And, like, the whole, the thing that the person was trying to convey was like, oh, sure, looks like they're getting bombed. They're out here having fun. And somebody was, like, somebody got in the replies that is a Gazan and was like,

they're bathing you fucking moron their water has been cut off they can't do laundry like what do you also think they they pointed somebody pointed out that photos from 2014 too yeah yeah i think sam knight i think sam knight pointed that out yeah exactly yeah yeah i think the point is is that like they go to extraordinary lengths to constantly cast doubt on what the palestinians themselves are saying and what we are seeing with our very eyes yes dog yeah yeah man and you know what too i gotta say too especially with bernie and with um i think bernie is an interesting case because i mean as far as i know like you know he took birth right

he went there he stayed in a kibbutz and you would think that I've seen videos like TikToks and videos from people who were raised by a Zionist family who say straight up that when you go there, there is no illusion at all that you're walking into one of the most racist, fascistic countries on Earth. So it's like, yo, dog, Sanders, like, you know this. You know this for a fucking fact, you know? Yeah. But, I mean, again, I guess it's the maintenance of empire, right? Well, somebody had pointed out on Twitter that said that they were talking about their bat mitzvah and said that they were kind of raising his eye on his family and that during her bat mitzvah speech that she lamented that she didn't have any family die in the holocaust and

so she didn't feel like an actual jew and she was like that's an insane thing for a child to believe also too can i be straight up because i got in trouble with this uh a little trouble with this uh yesterday you know because i mean again man i'm a non-jew man so there are some things where i'm like yo this is not like my place to say this but i had to look this up i mean zionists are some of the most anti-semitic people like you know that i've read about it's because they think that jews in the holocaust that suffered the holocaust their survivors are weak because of that i will it reminds me go ahead go ahead terrence no no finish your thought no no it just reminds me of you know i know it's not a one-to-one parallel but it reminds me of people like candace owens or people

like fucking um god what's the fucking buh Thomas Sowell right who literally imply or directly outright say that black people um that they're suffering is their own fault not because they didn't fight back hard enough but because of all these well that possibly too but because of all these like attenuate like associations and characteristics like stereotypes that they make, so apparently it's their fault. So it's like, for you to have that sort of, like, they have that, like, hammered into you, you know, that, like, you are not a real Jew because of either you didn't fight hard

enough, or either you didn't, I don't know, you didn't have that, your family didn't have that experience of shared suffering, that's just, I mean, I don't know, know dude that sounds anti-semitic to me you know what i mean that's yeah totally it totally is and it's no accident that like a lot of zionists make common cause with evangelicals because a lot of how they see the world is kind of tied into like ideas of predestination not necessarily in the Calvinist sense, but in the sense that there's just certain things, certain people are going to have to suffer certain atrocities for history to unfold how God has saw fit for it to unfold,

which is completely unscriptural in Christian tradition because the Bible says that God gave Adam the power to subdue the earth, that God gave to the children of subdue the earth that god gave to the children of man earth and the fullness thereof which means that god's a materialist right also too that we make history that's what i mean necessarily as marx would say yeah i like history is not something floating in the aether above us you know what i'm saying I mean, I think that's a thread. I'll postpone my thing with Bernie for just a second because that's a thread I want to follow

because there's this book I've been reading that is honestly astounding. I'm like halfway through it, but it's called Revolutionary Yiddish Land, A History of Jewish Radicalism. One of the authors of this book is the daughter of this guy who was a biology engineer in israel and stole a fuck ton of bioweapon secrets and gave them to the soviet union because he was

like he was like to the day he died he was like soviet union saved europe like saved european jews from nazis like i'm a soviet till i died so it's like i got y'all forever yo anything y'all need i got you dog hit me up any time of night but like i this is a it's a i'm i think i'm probably just bastardized that guy's entire biography i apologize um but like i the the point that this book is trying to make is that the the dream and the hope for a better world, a sort of like almost utopia on earth where people are taken care of. There's equal distribution of goods. People don't have to go hungry. They don't have to go sick.

They don't have to be targeted by fascists and racists and everything else. That dream of what we would call communism is intimately bound up in the dream for Jewish liberation. I mean, it has its seedbed in this. It comes out of it. It comes out of it in the 19th century and the experience of Eastern European Jews in the pogroms and in the various ghettos of Eastern Europe. And the thing is that you see this,

like this dream of a better world and people fighting for it and wanting to create this better world and like fighting their own oppression. This history is not taught in Israel now. And as you were saying, Aaron, in fact, a lot of, as far as I understand it anyways, I don't live in Israel. I don't go to their schools. I don't know. But if this book is to be believed, that narrative is actually peddled in Israel as one of complicity with the Holocaust. That the dream of anything other than an ethnostate in Palestine was what led to the Holocaust. than a ethno state in palestine was what led to the holocaust and it's it's this very fascinating thing man to where to see that like these these jewish socialists and communists in the 1920s and

30s like trying to fight for this better world and they all they all knew that like this final settling of scores with fascists in the form of like nazism that like that would be the one obstacle to to a better world that once you got that out of the way once you finally settled this score on european soil you'd finally be able to like build a better world but that world never came it was deferred and so that begs the question which is i've been kind of trying to struggle with this recently like was that a malignancy on the body of the human race that we just excised for a short time and then it's and we were in remission for 70 years and now it's finally resurfacing and now it's reared its ugly head yeah metastasizing everywhere

i mean that's that's uh i don't know it's maybe sort of like metaphysical thing just as much as it is a material thing. But you know what you made me think about, Terrence? Talk about the socialist tradition in Judaism is like, man, it's so crazy to me how I think, I'm thinking of Richie Torres because he's a perfect guy for this exactly, as a burning example actually. When he said, this motherfucker said, who by the way was visiting in arizona motherfucker you you you you fucking represent the bronx but you in arizona chilling with zionists like that motherfucker needs to go dog i hate that motherfucker so much but he said some shit like he had to delete the tweet because he basically uh he basically um reanimated the uh the judeo bolshevism you know that the the the fucking the the uh the

anti-semitic uh narrative that all of the socialists and the communists were jews yo so it's just so insane to me and he's saying that basically richard torres are saying oh all these groups like jewish voices for peace oh they're all working with dsa and shit like that which is like that's insanely anti-semitic but also too it's just strange to me that like yeah it seems like israel's far-right government is doing the same exact thing and has been doing the same exact thing right did you guys see i'm sorry these are some of the bravest people in the world people were calling them settlers colonizers like sure dude but there were a small group of people but a small important group of israelis that were coming out and protesting against the war absolutely they could get shot

and killed with impunity bro yeah that is the tradition right that should be upheld not this fucking like eugenics racialized bloodthirsty genocidal like apocalyptic fucking framework you know what i mean yeah no you can't you can't choose where you you're born and grow up at and live you know what i mean it's not so like i would hesitate to like you know cast aspersions especially as us living on stolen native land in that same sense you know what i mean but yeah you're right all the kudos in the world to them man because that's you're talking about a bloodthirsty fucking idf that's you know now there's evidence that they torched those kibbutzes that they put it on hamas and stuff like that these motherfuckers have no qualms no qualms about cracking a few eggs to make an omelet i mean you can even make the argument and i saw this thread it was a thread and granted this guy

is not in israeli government but he ostensibly does work for the israeli government in the united states but he worked for like a non-profit wait can i just say what you just said he works for the israeli government in the united states what other country okay i'm sorry i'm just saying like bro the country doesn't have to be cast out as a fucking apostate traitor if you plugged in in the name of literally any other country literally well i mean true there are, like, diplomats. That's true, that's true, true. Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. But I'm just thinking about, like, something from Zimbabwe, dog,

like, coming in and being, like, you know what I mean? Like, any non-white country, but you're right, you're right, though. It's true, we do have diplomats. The point, anyways, the point, he worked for this organization, the mission of which was to maintain unity among the various jewish sects in the united states and he had this thread that was just like fuck it if you're not if you don't support the state of israel you're not jewish and i can see this like i can very much easily see

especially after reading this book and reading the history of like the jewish struggle and how like the jewish bourgeoisie in France during Vichy France called themselves Israelites and not Jews like they specifically distance themselves from the working class Jewish socialists like you can easily see how like you can get a situation where the state of Israel becomes the largest purveyor of anti-semitism globally by like by like you know having off half of the the entire diaspora from the jewish experience and saying well they're not actually jews that's insane that would be state-sponsored anti-semitism at that point and they're towing that line they're very they're getting very very close to that point and um i don't know it's just it's just this thing that like americans are going to have to reckon

with like you i mean again this is like this is you know tom and i grew up evangelical this is something that we have been you know taught and like you know ingrained in our heads from day one we're all going to have to uh reckon with this and uh i don't know you know what i've been thinking of man and i hope i'm not um you know hope i'm not uh uh exaggerating here my my concerns are unwarranted but i don't know man i just keep thinking about like like how and i'm not saying that israel do the same as i think that circumstances are not there but just how nazi germany you know like like had like you know hitler had a nazi party had these like global like a dom like world domination ambitions, you know what I mean? And probably the only thing was that they didn't have nuclear weapons at the time.

You know what I mean? They were working towards them, you know? And the United States just beat them first. I mean, to be fair, the United States also took you have a rogue, like, fascistic, authoritarian, genocidal state in an already fraught region of the world with nuclear weapons? You know what I'm saying? Like, are we going to be dragged into World War III because the United States can't just tell Israel to fucking chill? You know what I mean? I think that's the case.

And you know why? This explains why I think this explains Bernie's silence on this. I was reading, again, i was reading this book this book they released this book in 1983 because they did a lot of oral histories with fighters who fought in the jewish boond and who fought in the warsaw ghetto uprising who fought in republican spain um and so they put this book out in 1983 they re-released it in 2009 and in the preface they were talking about like a book like this could not be released today the client with the climate the way it is like you could still release things that were critical of israel in the early 80s you can't do that anymore and i think the thing is i was waiting

for you i'm so conditioned i was waiting for you to say because of wokeness it's kind of true though the woke mind virus but i think the the point is is that i think maybe there's got to be some sort of corresponding theory in like systems theory or something but i genuinely think that like once things reach a sort of end game, you see more and more desperation and entrenchment than you do open mindedness and a willingness to cooperate. And so like I think that like it's obvious to U.S. Defense Department planners and everything that the end game is here with Israel. And that's why Netanyahu is calling this their second war of independence, by the way. He literally said that. That is so dark. What the fuck?

I didn't know that, Jesus. They know that their endgame is here with this Palestinian question. And so there has to be lockstep on this. And you see this all across the board. It's the same thing with climate. Like I was telling Tom the other night, ExxonMobil just bought up an entire drilling corporation

and an entire other oil corporation because they're not getting out of fossil fuels anytime soon. I mean, no, it's the same thing with the climate. Once you reach a certain point, once they realize that they're going down with this motherfucker, they're entrenching.

They're not trying to diversify or trying to cooperate or negotiate or anything. They're going to entrench until it takes everything else along with it and it death spiral and i think that probably accounts for why bernie and everybody in the state can't bring themselves to call for a ceasefire because probably the fucking joint chiefs of staff came in and said look they're fucking doing this you better shut the fuck up because this is a matter of national security with like the barrel of a gun to the back of his head i mean i hope i'm not making like a light example but it's like i mean you're right man i'm not it's just the end game man it's like it's like

you know when you have not only nothing to lose but everything to lose right in this one like precipitous moment you know like it's mask off you know this is why like i think that i mean we've all been shocked and disgusted but some of the comments that i've been seeing online right some of the rhetoric that i've been seeing from people it is straight up just like there's no pretense anymore you know well like there's no pretense and these are the designs i mean as i said before and as we've said i think this is these are their designs for the future you know they're seeing how much of this we can swallow right and accept yeah right before they apply it wholesale right i think it's yeah i think it's like that across where i was like again i was telling tom the other night like i heard a stat the other

day that blew my fucking mind which is that like in america we drill our oil here right but our oil processing like crude processing facilities don't have the capacity or the ability to process oil anymore because I think now the most profitable form of oil is like light Brent crude. And it was like 20 years ago, it was like heavy crude. Was that oil light or some shit like that? I guess, yeah, it's like oil light.

Yeah, that cocoa. Oil dyed oil light, what the fuck? We are so committed to the climate apocalypse now. fuck like we are so we're so committed to the climate apocalypse now it would be more expensive to to retrofit fit and upgrade those oil processing facilities so instead we export our oil and then re-import it we export it to be to be processed and then re-import it like that's like that's that's the level of commitment to the fucking death spiral here that is so convoluted dog it's like nah nigga i'm gonna kill myself don't stop me don't stop me it's like you know listen my mother always said of people like you know that so and so with

life the truth sounded better that is the united states we just do shit that doesn't make any sense even if there's a better alternative just because because we're so committed to, you know. Well, I think I think you're right. I think but I think you have to have a historical view on this. That was not true 60 years ago. We weren't going to go to nuclear war just to fucking do it just because it was more efficient and easier. There were stayed hands. Curtis LeMay wanted to fucking bomb Cuba back into the Stone Age

and Kennedy was like, get that fucking creep out of here, man. We don't have those bulwarks anymore. Sensible people that's like, okay, actually this is bad to unleash these forces in the world. Those forces have had, I mean, it's

getting ready to be all Hallows' Eve, right? The veil between the living and the dead supposed to be the thinnest tonight right it's kind of like that in american politics except the ghouls have just been bursting through the veil because the veil got too thin because all the sensible people got assassinated not to be like a big kennedy guy or anything but no but you're serious dog they're all, all the demons and ghouls are migrating here in our realm. But also, too, it's just like,

it's like, I saw some shit, and again, you know, I'm not a history buff, man, but it's just a lot of, like, bits and pieces I see online, but somebody had said that Reagan in 1980-something, I guess, I think when Israel was, like, you know, was having a war with Lebanon, I think, I think he had said, I think he had he had said, yo, this is a genocide.

You need to stop. He told the Israeli PM at the time. And they cut it out. I'm not saying that the United States is like Big Daddy that's going to be like, oh, knock it off. But I mean, you do supply them with weapons. You supply them with the resources that they need. If Biden was like, yo, cut that shit out, I mean, I think they would be inclined to do it, right? But we don't even have people like that anymore.

We don't even have people that are so, I mean, addled by Alzheimer's, losing their Swiss cheese brains, right? Yeah. We had people like that that would still do not even the right thing, dog, just the sensible, pragmatic thing if you want to continue the human race right it's the common have that anymore yeah it's the combination of the worst thing which things which is that like yeah you do have a situation kind of like world war one where like uh where like every world leader is either like syphilitic senile or like inbred and it's like uh and it's like hitler do what guys are syphilid yeah and and it's like uh and so like i mean you do have that situation but then you've also got this like sort of structural situation where like i said it's like sort of entered in an end game people people think that like shit like this is

static like even like a sort of apartheid system that like it doesn't have any kind of like contradictory logic to it that it won't eventually run up against its own ideological capacities and things that will then bring it into a crisis state it's like no it has finally done that it's finally broken out of its like sort of capacity to contain contradiction and again i think that this is like a massive problem geopolitically and i think it partially explains why a lot of the u.s state is dug in their fucking heels and it could be at their own peril i mean like i was reading that washington post article about how the muslim you know arab community in the united states is entirely just shocked appalled at biden about to sit out 2024 yeah yeah i mean yeah you can basically kiss

michigan goodbye man like i mean it's just it's i mean i don't know that's a whole other dimension to this discourse we've not even discussed like all the people being like well enjoy trump in 2024 it's like bitch i don't care bro i don't i i stopped caring a long time ago. You know what? When people say that, you know what I see in my mind's eye? I don't see anything but Anton Chigurh saying, if the road that brought you to... What is it? No country for old man? Yeah.

If the road that brought you... If the road that brought you here... Of what use was the road? Of what use was the road. But they don't see it that way. They don't see it as like a... But they don't see it that way. They don't see it as like a, because they don't see Palestinians as people. They just see this as like another abstract game

on the other side of the world that will help their party's chance of winning the fucking White House. Whereas like we have a larger macro structural analysis of this. We see how this will affect all of us. I mean, you know, I got to say too, man, you know, the only person that has had any conviction at all, which makes fucking sense.

I mean, there are a few people. Like, Cori Bush is always on the right side. You know what I mean? And like, this political shit, man, I'm sorry, but I've tuned out a long time ago. I'm talking about electoral shit. Like, it doesn't fucking matter. But I can respect people that truly serve their communities. Like, bush or rashida talib of course right can you imagine dude being like the second because i think justin amash is the first palestinian american but his family fucking died some of his family members died and of course he's still talking about hamas which is

just to go just goes to show you how like senate brain right or just how institutional brain this person is right but like rash Tlaib is the only fucking person, dawg, who, like, could you imagine like, you're seeing your family members, your people dying, and your own fucking president, who's the same member of your party, the leader of your party, is discounting and discrediting those deaths? Like,

of course I could expect the Muslim Arab community within the United States to be like, no, fuck that. Because I mean, honestly, too, you listener or anyone else out there, I mean, you listener, fuck that. Because, I mean, honestly, too, you a listener or anyone else out there, I mean, you a listener, you're probably like, fuck Biden, too. But I mean, for anyone else, if they're doing that to Palestinians, right?

If they're doing this to Palestinians, what makes you think that they wouldn't just fucking throw you under the bus, too, dog? When the time comes, you know? You know what I mean? Like, who would make you think they wouldn't just be like, you know what? We did it before. We can do it again. Just at home. It makes you wonder, hmm, why were they supporting Black Lives Matter? Probably

because they wanted the fucking votes. Yes, exactly. 100%. This is so insane. Did y'all see this where somebody was demanding accountability from New York Jets head coach Robert Sala, who's the first Muslim NFL coach. Because he was

wearing a Lebanbanese flag yeah which was just part of the nfl's like in racism thing they encourage people to like wear the patches of their like nationalities like on their gear or whatever so he just got the lebanon because he's lebanese and somebody was like no i won't i demand why is he doing yeah yeah it's fucking insane dude dude that's just so insane that's the thing it's like you forget how like stupid racists are and that's what's really scary it's like man i mean i don't want to like give the impression that like we have no agency in this because like on the contrary i think we have quite a bit i think that like continuing to call for a ceasefire is

like forcing the contradictions out into the open on this and if it means that biden let's fucking turn the tables all right i'm i'm i'm down to fucking crack a few eggs to make an omelet if it means biden doesn't get re-elected then fuck that i don't give a fuck what does it fucking matter it's like it's like thomas said over and over again the whole fucking appeal was kids in cages at the border but all we keep seeing is more people in cages more people bombed yep and more justifications why we should put kids in cages and bomb people i mean listen dog from the moment this motherfucker said if you don't if you don't vote for joe body you ain't black i already wasn't gonna go vote for the motherfucker well shit man guess i gotta turn in my black card bro because i'm not black it's like it's like the opposite of a poll tax it's like exactly it's

like you don't get to vote unless you're black and it has to be for the democratic party i mean dude this is the way they do it sometimes dog i mean again i could imagine i mean i'm not gonna imagine because i'm seeing this already. Like, like progressives and liberals and people like that are like not wonks, but like wonks, sure. But people work in D.C. and shit like that. That are like chastising. Say again? What did you say?

Land your dicks. Yeah, land your dicks. Exactly. These fucking land your dicks that are telling Muslim Americans, right? Muslim Muslims and Arab Americans. Sorry. Telling them that, like, well, if you don't joe biden and what do you want trump to win he's just gonna make it worse i mean dude what can be worse than a genocide right now bro you know what i'm

saying like what do you mean worse yeah you know yeah it's like there i think we're feels a little bit like we're there you know at worst it makes it's interesting it makes me wonder this is kind of a side tangent but i was like sort of like wondering out loud about this tom the other night which is that like it almost makes me wonder if part of this isn't meant in some way because i remembered us doing an episode back in february 2021 right after biden got into office one of his very first things was he bombed syria i don't know if y'all remember this he bombed several yeah he bombed like what they said were several isis places in syria and his quotation at the time was that we are doing foreign policy for the middle class.

He said bombing like these kind of actions will benefit the middle class. And it's made me wonder ever since then. And it's sort of stuck in my brain. It's made me wonder if like part of what's going on here isn't a new kind of like maybe military Keynesianism. Where like so you've had all these people in like Bernie's camp talking about modern monetary theory like MMT which put very very crudely is basically the idea that you can print as

much money as possible because we have sovereign currency right? Because we have sovereign currency it's backed up by our military there's no gold standard so like what backs up a fiat currency is the mites of the American military and they were arguing this back in the Green New Deal days as a argument for why we could afford welfare programs

and Green New Deal just transition programs and stuff like that. It makes me wonder if, because we saw how that played out in the pandemic here in 2020, but they're now doing this with like ev production like the american government subsidizes a fuckload of ev production both at the consumer end and at the manufacturing end and so it makes me it makes me wonder if they're not doing a kind

of like mmt thing a sort of like military keynesianism to like foreign policy for the middle class go to war to build up the trades to build up like a solid middle class voting constituency that will you know basically tie that voting bloc's fate to the that of the democratic party uh and their no yeah no no and their conception too of um of um um how can i say it of um i mean their their their conception too of like enrichment i guess personal enrichment like this is good for them you know what dude i think that's two prongs because one when that middle the war for the middle class one definitely economic right in terms of like a military keynesian where you were saying but i also think like it has to do to like

add value to like the libidinal economy right right? Of like racial oppression and shit like that. Like it's basically like, I don't know, man. I know this is a kinesin one-to-one, but every time that there's a shooting in a black community or there's some act of racial violence, it makes me feel like America has to renew itself in the blood of oppressed people. Like ritually, almost like thomas jefferson

said yeah it has to be a revolution to renew but it's like inverted yes inverted that's exactly what it is it's not it's not in the blood of tyrants it's in the blood of oppressed people yes it's the blood of oppressed people to make white people to make mostly white people the same white people that fucking biden who lives who live in fucking um where i fucking live um not where i live but like in fucking Petrie City and shit like that you know what I mean in fucking like

neighborhoods in Atlanta around that that are very like well off and white it's so those people can feel like their station in the world is comfortable and secure

and that these brown savages over there are being taken care of and they're not gonna come float our doorstep you know what I'm saying now that the twins shall meet

you're right that actually makes so much sense because that was tom and i were talking about this on the main episode this past week about how like the the hypocrisy of america and america is what's really so disgusting like it's constant evoking of these higher loftier ideals of equality and everything but how it at every step of the road does not meet those and in fact goes out of its way to not do so the renewing of itself in the blood of oppressed people actually allows it to have that sort of function say like look we are we are actually uh aspiring towards greater heights we are aspiring

towards equality and all these things it's just an exact go ahead no no no no i just it just i mean to draw back to the biblical parallels which might make sense why they're laundering that cause through the lens of christianity yeah where a god had to be from an oppressed people had to be brutally in know uh rough terms murdered right by the state yeah yeah anyway yeah you're right sorry i didn't mean to cut you off i just no no no no no man it's just it's just it's just it's just i mean i don't know man i i guess i guess i'm just been i mean we've all been losing our minds man but but i hate to say the racial element, the race relations of it. But seriously, dude, I mean, Brianna Wu's tweet, who I always thought Brianna Wu was an Asian woman. And I found out she was just some white chick.

And that really made me irrationally upset for some reason. Wait, what? Yo, dude, I mean, you know what? I could be wrong, bro. Maybe her dad, maybe her mom. I could be wrong. You could probably cut this out. I don't know. But anyway, that's besides the point.

But no, it actually is the point because she's a fucking white woman, dog. cut this out i don't know but anyway that's besides the point but no it actually is the point because she's a fucking white woman dog this shit made me so fucking mad where these white people are comparing brown people trapped in a fucking cage not not only is she white she's from west virginia dog she's appalachian yeah she's actually she's her name is woo because she's married okay that makes sense yeah like she said some shit like yo um um like comparing oh my god yo i want to remember the tweet because this is like it was burned into my brain she said she was comparing palestinians not even hamas to the confederacy yo she was comparing um the the term from the

river to the sea is like when people say the confederate flag is about heritage and dude again i hate to break this to you but if we're going to draw civil war parallels from the river to the sea general sherman comes to my mind more than the confederate that is true my my man right there brianna and you totally whiffed it my man really did go march from the river to the march from the city for the mississippi river to the city with zionists were actually terrified he's gonna happen to israel like you know what i mean which makes sense why fucking modern day confederates are still so fucking salty but like yeah dude no i just i just guess i just like how are you comparing again it's just you have to

invert it like you were saying you have to invert it you you were saying. You have to invert it. You know, I have seen people that are oppressed as Nazis, Confederates, whatever. You know, I have seen people. I have seen liberal politicians in the United States saying that that like Hamas is basically like equivalent to you, like your average chud conservative in America. They would vote for Trump. Yeah, it's like I mean, it's it's really just uh without unpacking all of that there's a lot that's in there it's just i mean it's really just the the whole thing of like do you denounce hamas it's like the whole the whole thing is like do you did like the like them trying to press you like do you denounce hamas it's like would you ask a palestinian that like they might say yes

but they might say no but the act of asking in and of itself i should i should have asked my palestinian barber this morning when he cut my hair i was going i was talking to him because i kind of asked him about it because he said man i had a bad day yesterday and reason he had a bad day is he him and his wife are expecting a child any day now and things are getting dicier and dicier back home and he's worried rightly that his parents might not ever meet their grandchildren all that kind of shit you know and um that's what i should have said i was like well brother i hate to you know what you got to do first is you got to denounce hamas yeah that's first and foremost that's the first step it's 12 it's like it's like 12 steps to

liberation it's like it's like this 12-step program for liberation it's like the first step is uh you know the first step is you gotta admit you have a problem second step denounce him also to like i mean could you imagine if any time that israel bom a country, bombed, like, I mean, bombed Palestinians, any time that Israel fucking slaughtered and murdered Palestinians. Could you imagine going up to, like, like Jerry Nadler or any Jewish congressperson and asking them, do you denounce the state of Israel? Like, I saw people following around Rashida Tlaib and asking her, does she denounce Hamas? Like, that is just, again dude we are we are barreling back not even forwards even though we're barreling towards this dark horrible future we're barreling back to 19th century racism dog yeah you know what Aaron it's not really racism I can't tell

you how many times people harass me to to denounce pat robertson and jerry fallwell and uh yeah that murderer's row of fucking fat decrepit now dead old fucking scum you know you know that's fair because uh you know people have asked me before you know as the son of jamaican immigrants have i denounced the dc sniper who was a jamaican boy malvo former also former listener of mine and terence's radio program yeah oh yeah i told you that's so fucking crazy man jesus oh man maybe you told me that that's fucking crazy you are you you guys are onto something though uh because the 19th century yes was an absolutely abhorrent time for like racial ideologies, but also a very wild time for religious ideologies. Like both are, you know,

these things that are in that century very much like in flux and in violent contradiction with one another. And I want to return to a point I just was talking about a minute ago, sort of speculating on the kind of like maybe new Democratic Party's military Keynesianism, because like they've talked about this over and over again about how they're leaving neoliberalism behind. And I do think that like even if I'm wrong, you have to keep that in mind as this moves forward. You have to keep it in mind that like their program is trying to chart a new course like a new sort of regime of accumulation that is like away from neoliberalism that is not a good thing the for the fordest family model you know what i mean like the fordest wage system of like the mid-20th century

allowed for a lot of basically what it allowed for us was to kick the can down the road on civil rights and everything else in the pursuit of anti-communism. Like, these are not good things. They're not like, yes, they bring momentary stability to middle class families in America. And not for everyone, by the way. And not for everyone. Because a lot of black families didn't enjoy it. Exactly.

Exactly. And so, like, that's the thing. Like, in that, there are contradictions that lead us all to our own unraveling and undoing i think that's the that is the argument for theory and for understanding history but it's also the theory it's our it's also the argument for solidarity because if that's the case then we have to have deep relations in like the trade unions and our neighborhoods because like again if that's if what they're gonna to do is try to buy everybody off with rising tide lifts all boats because we're shipping more arms overseas

and we're just hitting the money printer, that's not going to be good. That's not going to work for anybody. This is why, man, I have to say in London, I think this weekend, over 500,000 people in cities all across this country. Just this past Saturday, there was a pro-Palestine rally in downtown Atlanta, which the cops, there have been several. The cops are increasingly harassing people. But, yo, as you were saying solidarity i mean this is why the news is not covering it you know yeah this is why like canada too nobody i mean all actually also all across the muslim world right yeah this is why like what like what's that we

mentioned this quote before what's that mal quote right if you got haters or some shit like that yeah i'm doing modern version if you have haters you're doing something right when the enemy attacks you it's not a bad thing but a good thing exactly this is why they have to be absurd i mean the propaganda dog is getting so bone dry like they're running out of shit yeah because then they have to denounce 500 000 people in london protesting as pro-hama supporters how long do you think many of which are jews yo dude in grand central we fucking new york bro the the fucking absurd image of fucking nypd officers police like in uh taking out jewish protesters in handcuffs in the fate in the name of anti-fascism dog like all they have to work overtime now because as much as we are teetering on the edge of something frightening, right?

I think people, I mean, dude, I don't know, man. You can't make a bomb, you know, that can kill, like, the human will to live, dog. You know what I mean? You can kill as many people as you want, right? In all these countries throughout the world. But there are, I mean, and again, I might be super optimistic. But at the same time, this moment is, I i mean one of the lowest points in human history again in my life as you opened up the show with um terrence it's also incredibly promising because for a

minute i really didn't think that i thought in my mind i was like yo like decades from now no one's gonna remember this happened everyone's gonna say or if they do remember they're gonna say that they were on the right side and i don't i don't side. And I don't think that's going to happen, man. I think there's a potential to stop something even more horrible than what already has gone on before it happens. Why it's so important, I think, because I think about this too, and if I'm going to witness to my family members on this point or whatever the case is, why it all matters so much, really and truly, is if this is allowed to go on, nothing matters.

And we talk about the e-crisis, right? The epistemological crisis. Like, the idea that we could sit by idly and let people be wiped off and no record of them ever existing. Like, nothing else matters at that point. No grandstanding about our morals or our lofty ideas as a country or this, that, and the third. None of it fucking matters. Why do we go to work? Why do we love one another?

Like, nothing else matters. That's why it matters to everybody. That's why everybody's got to get involved in this you know what i mean because it's like yeah anyway it's a there's a quote i want to pull it up real quick because i was texting a friend of the show um i don't know if she's a patron a patron but stephanie um i know from twitter she said something man she said to accept that she said uh to accept that what we can do is both never enough and it's also everything it's all we have you know and i've really been trying to like contend with that because it's like i feel like not just me but like you know us in the imperial core like me and my cushy house you know like what the fuck can i

do but the point is understanding that that's not enough but at the same time that's all that we could fucking do you know know what I mean? Because like you said, Tom, then nothing fucking matters. What are all these lofty ideals for? They're for not if you can't stop. If we can't, I'm going to say can't stop, right? Because these things are in motion and they seem so beyond us. But if you can't even just fucking go outside, man, and join a movement, if you can't fucking

like anyone, right right whether it's your fucking neighbor or your fucking representative of your congressperson well shit dude you're fucking president dog you know withholding any participation in the sham that's allowing people to be slaughtered right if we can't stop this man and nothing fucking matters dog you know if we can't even try to stop this then nothing fucking matters that's the thing it's like because we have to prepare for the possibility that we can't stop it in the sense that like in which case yes we there will require an escalation of uh tendencies an escalation of uh strategies tactics and so i think that like that is also something that you have to prepare for

i do think though that like this has demonstrated to the entire left how completely riven and full of contradictions the liberal party is the democratic party and i think it's important to keep all that in mind and also i just also want to say just from like the standpoint of history and like deep history that like we not we owe this to all of those not only to like the palestinians who were you know kicked out of their land driven from their homes in the original nakba but like all of those jewish socialist militants who died trying to create a better world and i'm not like i don't i'm not like trying to do the richie torres thing and say that like communism is a jewish uh tradition i'm not i i'm i didn't i'm not doing the judeo-bosevic yeah i hope people didn't misinterpret that earlier what i was trying to

say and i probably didn't articulate it well enough is that all of those socialists knew that their struggle was bound up with everyone else's struggle with all the oppressed peoples of the world and more importantly the proletariat the working class that was it and so i think that like that's what you're fighting for not not just the working class and and all the people that are targeted around the world but for like the the history for like those people that came before us and like lost their lives for us and you know helped push that wheel forward of history and uh you know you know what i'll say too man i would say uh you know not to be no not even man i would say like for the future too man because i keep thinking about my nephew dog and that's why i like you know i mean who wouldn't get torn up by seeing

kids getting pulled out of rubble but i mean this motherfucker's three years old man and i'm looking at little palestinian kids you know what i'm saying that are his height his age you know that are i mean dealing with things that most adults will never have to fucking go through you know yeah and i don't want to like i don't want like 20 you know 15 20 years from now when his generation right i mean god you know god forbid like they have a world right to inhabit but he's gonna be like you know they're gonna be like well this is insane like what did you do at the time what did y'all do what did people do and if you if you can say that like all right well you know we might have lost this one but like at least before if you can't even say that then i don't know man that's just like one of the most shameful things you know

trying to explain this shit you know to future generations and trying to explain it away the same way that older generations or i guess the sort of political framework that we have now they try to explain away the past you know explain away atrocities you know continue to throw people under the bus after they've already died like we we need to we need to i mean if never again means anything that means that like never again right for everybody you know and for the future right you know yeah you know i but yeah and you invokes the future it's like i keep coming back around to that the climate issue too because in my in my mind like these these two things mirror each other in the sense that like you can no longer defer history you can't put it off any longer like it's

finally here uh and everything is at stake i think i don't i hate to be hyperbolic, but I mean, it seems very, and maybe again, maybe this like, you know, maybe American diplomats and Biden wake up tomorrow and say, oh my God, we, we, they have a, a moment of consciousness and they say like, we have to stop this. And then things get patched up and there's truth and reconciliation and everything. But look at the American government and look at the Israeli government. Do you think that's gonna happen anytime soon? These people are out for blood. Especially the Israeli government.

You can see it in the things they say. Like Netanyahu said, this is their second war of independence. This is an existential thing in the sense that they, which also is a crazy statement, right? Because it's like independence from what? What are you talking about?

You mean independence, nigga, didn't you get the lamb, bro? It was given to you after they kicked people out. Let me tell you something, man. That is that American mentality. That is that middle class mentality. Somebody with all the advantages in the world, and yet still they're the aggrieved person. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Then I saw a beast come out of the sea having ten horns and seven heads. And on his horns were ten diadems, and on his head were blasphemous names. Daniel chapter 2, it predicts the coming of the world's superpowers, God's superpowers. That one is Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, Rome phase 1, Rome phase 2. Rome phase 2 are the 10 toes of that image that Nebuchadnezzar saw and Daniel interpreted for him. Well, this symbol is about the same power, the ten horns here. It's about ten nations that will come out of the Roman culture and people and that it will be the final

coalition of power that will be the last world superpower. superpower really wild you don't want to get like real millenarian though for a minute I feel like Tom has not to put you on the spot and you don't have to actually maybe I should save this actually but I feel like it's like talking with Tom the other night you had a pretty decent theory you don't have to actually... Actually, maybe I should save this, actually. But I feel like...

It's like talking with Tom the other night. You had a pretty decent theory that Netanyahu might actually be the Antichrist. Yeah, I think so. I mean, look. You look in the Scripture, the characteristics of the Antichrist, the Scripture says that he has the power

to call fire out of heaven and that he speaks blasphemies. And, well, I'm thinking about how they're framing this like if if you don't pay this fealty to the state of israel you're not you're not really jewish like the most blasphemous statement you can make like if you don't pay fealty to the lakud government that's running this that's running roughshod over these people that not for nothing that christ comes out of yeah then you are in fact not a christian all right calling fire out of heaven it's kind of easy to see how that like uh you know having all these bombs that you're dropping on people and

having the full power of the most bloodthirsty military in the world at your disposal could be construed as being able to call fire out of heaven yeah yeah no like literally actually like literally that's the way it fucking looked like some of the pictures i saw to gaza again apocalyptic man yeah he exalts himself against the knowledge of god you know yeah this is a guy that you know yeah anyway i could go on but i think there's there's if the if if if the bible is real and i again i'm not saying it is or isn't or anything else i make a judgment call i'm just saying you could make a compelling case that benjamin netanyahu is in fact the biblical antichrist and the funny thing is this too and me and terrence talked about this millenary and evangelical christians the whole life they grew up telling me oh you got to watch

out you got to watch out because the devil you know the devil you know he'll come in one way but like you'll think it's like you know and it's like you know for people that are all all the time concerned about the devil's devices they're the devices, they're the most incurious people in the world. You know what I mean? Like, it's not hard to see how you could see John 5 and 42, which says that, like, you know, I came to you and you received me not. I mean, just on its face, you could see how, like, the rejection of the plight of palestinian peoples could be

like applied in that situation so i don't know i've been digging more into into my tradition not in the literalist sense that i believe in god and and you know christ and him resurrected and all this sort of thing not in that sense but in the sense that like that example franz fanon's echoing of that first light of the international you wretched of the earth connected to whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely you know i i feel like i have fully fused the two traditions in it because you can look at marxism in fact as very similar to early similar to early Christianity in the sense that it's this movement that calls out the contradictions of its era. And it makes these very trenchant observations about the unsustainability of the way things are structured.

And not only that, but that it gives meaning to people's lives. meaning to people's lives. And in the case of Marxists, it's this like very deep material understanding of history and our connectedness as human beings and like what people are, what they deserve and how we should treat each other. And you know what I mean? Like I know that these are kind of like

liberal socialist ideas rather than like Marxist materialist ones. But if you do a side-by-side comparison with Christianity as a social movement then i think that there is a lot of comparisons there and so like also though but if you take marx at his word and and read what he's saying about there being these like deep structural resonances across the span of history across the great arc of history then like you could actually kind of interpret this moment as that sort of like reckoning with our own sort of collective mortality that like the

entire human race is just this great stream right that like yes we are as we are individuals but we all are born and we die it's like coming up for air for a brief time and then we just go back down and in this great stream of life and we're all just trying to impose our will on it and make it better and improve it for people further on down the road. If that is the case, then

okay, maybe B.E.B. as himself is not the Antichrist, but maybe the West is. Maybe the Antichrist isn't one person but yeah exactly it's a collective entity scripture teaches that too there's been many antichrists that have come you know what i mean yeah and that like and and if that's the case then it weirdly does prove the entire christian eschatology correct in its own weird way but it also in

this sort of like dialectical way proves proves the Marxist eschatology correct. And you have these weird resonances where they sort of resound off of each other and make you feel like you are this... And again, I realize how self-aggrandizing and epic this sounds and absurd this sounds. Like the ultimate battle between good and evil. It really is it really

is well that's the thing we're back in the 19th century it is an epic battle between good and evil like we as if regardless of whether we want to or want to be there or not we're back in the 19th century this era of like these great grand epic battles and narratives about humanity and like how they play out um and it's also interesting by the way the 19th century was this very fertile period for trying to understand the historical jesus it's like that's when the biography of the historical jesus actually emerged was the 19th century uh the like the late 18th and 19th centuries and so um it feels very much like we're back in what hobsbawm called like the age of revolutions like we're it's it's it's kind of come full circle so

it's again i i hate to like you know get into my like anti materialist antichrist shit but it's uh something that i i have also you can't help it you can't help but like dive into that well when like you're steeped in it your entire life. Also, too, I don't know if this is related or relevant, but I don't know. We've been using the word apocalypse a lot, and we're just talking about the Antichrist. I want to be clear, too, that the term apocalypse, too, and the root of the word in the Latin, it doesn't mean the end of the world. It means revealing or uncovering of the truth.

Yeah. So, again, the dialectics, man, against the contradictions revealing themselves, right? And the fetters are breaking. You know, it's collapsing under its own weight. Apocalypse doesn't mean the end of the world, although the world is right now ending for Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. And a lot of people throughout the world, but especially in Palestine right now. in Gaza and the West Bank, but, and a lot of people throughout the world, but especially in Palestine right now. But it doesn't also mean that out of this moment, again, you know, this kind of breaking

down of this consensus that Israel has a right to exist, which means that Israel has the right to do anything that they want with the sanction of the United States. We're already seeing this. The most promising thing to me, besides the protests that I've seen in the United States, which kind of, no no shame anyone who's been out there protesting but honestly what's been very significant not even more so significant but significant to me as well has been um you know throughout throughout uh the global south right you know you have countries in africa and latin america dog and in asia right that are looking

at the united states and they're like yo this is hypocritical man because when it was ukraine you guys were supporting self-determination but now and to me you know when the rest of the world is kind of looking and pointing fingers instead of the other way around when the people with all the guns are pointing the fingers you know that to me is promising so yeah yeah maybe maybe the rest of the world is like yo like yo bb he is the antichrist well the west is the antichrist i just the what kind of got me thinking this is like you can see us saying this and our muslim friends just being like well yeah we were trying to tell you how that yeah yeah i think you just fell off the turnip truck yesterday to kind of like recenter this put this back in kind of like materialist terms if you understand fascism and the growth of fascism to be a development of failed communism, of the failure of communist movements, of the failure of a utopia to materialize, which was definitely in the case in Germany.

They came this close to revolution in the early 1920s. And then it all came unraveled. You get the Weimar Republic and then you get the Nazis. If you interpret like in the many ways, that's also the kind of trajectory of fascism in Italy as well. Something that like arises from the like discarded husk or the conquered husk of the communist movements and the failure to of a utopia to materialize you can also apply that same critique to the state of israel itself that you have these like great jewish like militants and socialists trying to build this better world and this better safer uh community and like world project and it fit and it fails to materialize and instead what you get the flip side of it

at the other end of it what comes out the other end is this like mangled snarling bloodthirsty just like monster and it's like rising up out of the fucking like plasma of their like lost fucking dash dreams you know yes exactly and that that's what it aims to do worldwide it aims to conquer all of your dreams it aims to it aims to make that all a foregone conclusion and ensure that it's not going to be socialism it is in fact barbarism and i think that that's you know that's the to you know again without making it too grandiose like that's basically what's on the table that's the good versus evil dialectic that's the good versus evil dialectic i mean we have to we have to say good versus evil because we're talking about people that are using the fucking lie that babies are beheaded babies

are in ovens that gazans are committing mass rape not even hamas but gazans are committing mass yeah yeah we're talking about people that are peddling lies about the death of children right to murder children that's what i'm saying? That's evil. That's evil, dog. That's another thing, like, people ask you to denounce Hamas. It's like, well, Israel doesn't distinguish between Hamas and Gazans,

so, like, what is the point? Why are you asking us from our ivory tower? Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Oh, God, man. All right, well, I really hate Amy Schumer. I fucking, bro. Listen bro listen man i'm not i hate anybody especially after that but my god man listen i would say something about bb i'm not

gonna say because i'll make people mad but i yeah man her and sarah silverman all these people that are like oh i'm the one yeah man uh yeah man these people are demonic that's that's all i'm gonna say they're demonic yeah they're evil people i the thing is is like they're so self-obsessed they're narcissists right like so they have to like make this entirely about them and uh and that is another card that we fortunately i guess have socialists have up our sleeves it's like you would you would hope yes that like as individuals we do not not make this all about us. I feel like I saw some very wacky examples of people making it. Like that one professor, I think it was like a Columbia, who was like crying in front of that group of crowd of people.

Like, oh my God. Like whining, dude. And then gets on social media and was like, that was me out there and I was crying. Yeah, nigga, we know it was you. See you out there with the bitch assness. Nobody cares. Just wailing, blubbering, yo. Jesus, man.

Oh, God, man. Fuck. All right. I guess that about covers it for today do you have anything else you want to throw on the uh the pyre no just you know go out there and do what you can man you know there's a protest in your city i mean i don't know man whatever you can do yeah keep up to i like the bird dogging of fetterman like that's uh yeah man i that's another motherfucker dog yo dude this is why last thing i'll, this is my last thing I'll add.

This is my last thing I'll add, yo. Because we are dealing with good and evil stakes here, I mean, disappointment's not even the word, but just remember that all these progressives, all these progressive congresspeople, I mean, without, like, besides maybe, like, two people, you know, Rashida Tlaib and Cori Bush all thrown in there, right? You can't trust these motherfuckers, man,

because the minute that shit gets real, they will hang you out to dry. And Fetterman, that fucking brute, is an exact example. So, fuck that guy, too. Yeah. I think he's big tree and falls hard. I don't think he can hit. Nah, he don't look like he can hit. Nah, you know, there's always that big guy that you think is like, oh, you're so afraid of him.

And then he just, he just gets fucking chopped down by some 5'8 little motherfucker. Yeah, just tie his shoelaces together, and he'll just like... Take him to the back of his legs or some shit like that. I don't know, man. Yeah, but yeah. I love that shit,

and I think that we should do more of it. Personally, because I've done it one time in my life in a spectacularly grandiose fashion, and it was one of the most satisfying experiences of my life. And so I have to recommend everybody do the same. Go harass your congressperson. Yeah, it feels great. It at least feels very cathartic.

And don't even do it by yourself. Do it with a group of people. Because again, that's the good shit. Hell yeah, hell yeah. I'm going to call Hal Rogers' office today and I'm going to have some choice words for them. I was about to,ank johnson is my guy hey johnson's uh actually i think hank johnson is a supporter of palestinian self-determination i'd have to double check but no that's cynthia mckinney there's a highway named after anyway i'm getting into fucking georgia politics lord but um yeah

you got one good one one bad one She was a good one but then She like they named a highway after her And then she lost her fucking mind She got a little bit of a head That happens you should never have Anything named after you until you're dead I agree I agree 100% Aaron you're correct

It seems like Hank Johnson has been very critical Of Israel's occupation. Yeah, he's a congressperson. And has not altered his stance despite criticism. Nice. He did also say that compared that he said that Guam, he was worried about Guam, the island of Guam capsizing. People can watch that video on YouTube. So this is one of the people.

Doesn't have it all there. But, you know, everybody's allowed to have one crackpot theory. You know what I mean? What? Yeah, it's right here. Comments on Guam tipping over. Yeah, he asked the military general. He said, yo, I'm worried that Guam...

And the guy was like, well, sir, I'm about to tell you, have a report that Guam is not at risk of tipping over. I agree with him. I, too, believe Guam is actually built on a whale's back. It's just kind of hanging out there. Actually, he was making an anti-imperialist point. What?

After the point, he said he had used a facetious metaphor to draw attention to the potential negative impact of adding 8,000 Marines and dependents to an island of 180,000 people. You know what, dog? You know what, bro an Island of 180,000 people. You know what dog? You know what bro? I'm sorry. Hey Johnson, I'm sorry for slandering you for all these years since I've watched that

video. That's my bad brother. I'm sorry. Amazing. Um, all right. Well, uh,

I think that covers it for us this week. Um, tune into the main feed this week and we'll give you more shit. Uh, my brain is for us this week. Tune in to the main feed this week, and we'll give you more shit. My brain is dead by this point. Thanks for tuning in, folks. Go tell your friends about Patreon and that they can subscribe

and listen to hard-hitting Marxist Christianity. What are we calling this now? It seems like we finally articulated a fusion of two streams that have been the running parallel in our extended Trillbillies universe for a while and it has finally crossed. Not Christian socialism, because that is a thing, but Marxist

Christo-eschatology? It's a kind of millenarianism, I suppose. Are we millenarians, guys? I'm a millennial. I know that. I'm not ready to commit one way or the other. I still gotta feel it out a little bit. I know that people say that's bad

to be a millenarian, but I mean, if we're bringing back an apocalyptician, yeah, we're bringing back old centuries, so we might as well all become millenarians, I guess. I'll start just getting on here every week week like hal lindsey and predicting a date that the world's gonna end please brother and when it comes and goes i'll

just keep pushing it just keep pushing the goalposts hank johnson might have been on something the whole world might tip over if we have too many fucking marines you know what i'm saying like too much war and the world will tip over the earth earth will spin out of rotation out of its orbit. That's true. Alright gang, thanks for listening this week. We'll see you next time. Peace out. In verse 3 it says, I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain and his

fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast. You know the confusing thing to most people about this, it talks about the beast, and in some sentences it sounds like it's talking about a kingdom. The beast is a kingdom. And then in other places it's talking about the ruler of that kingdom, because it goes to a personal pronoun.

And the reason is because they're interchangeable, because there's one, one is controlling the other. The beast in some parts is spoken of as this person who's the Antichrist. In other contexts, it talks about it as a superpower of nations. But they are so part of each other that you can use them almost interchangeably. You follow me on that? All right, now, clearly, when it talks about, in 2 where it says the dragon gave him his power his throne and great authority so this is talking about giving all of satan's power and authority to this man and the implications of that are mind-boggling. I mean, you can't imagine what this is saying.

This is talking about a man that's going to have all of the power of the highest created being God ever created handed to him. We're talking about ten heads that represent ten nations here, okay? And so, this person in in here again sometimes this wounded head is talking about a power a nation and other times it's talking about the individual who personifies that nation and it rocks back and forth and And he says,

And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast. They worshipped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast. And they worshipped the beast saying, Who is like the beast? Right now, does it make you a little frightened to know that we are very close to having a world of satan worshipers because that's what it's saying here

now they're not aware they're worshiping satan because satan is inside this man the man is totally animated and empowered by Satan. And there's complete deception. And they worship this person. In verse 5, there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies. And authority to act for 42 months was given to him and he opened his mouth and blasphemies against god to blaspheme his name and his tabernacle that is or i mean by that those who dwell in heaven now why would he do that

why would he find it necessary to take his valuable airtime to blaspheme God and those who dwell in heaven well because he has to explain where you know I vanished it the world's going to wonder, what happened? All these people disappeared. And he's going to come in with an explanation. He's going to blaspheme God. He's going to blaspheme us. We're in heaven. All this reason.

And it was also given to him to make war with the saints and overcome them. And authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him you see God allowed the only world superpowers there's ever been here since the flood and the first one was Babylon, second, Medo-Persian, third, Greece, fourth, Rome phase one, and this is Rome phase two because it's going to be a resurrected form of Rome. See, there are not five superpowers here

that God allows out of the Gentile world, only four, but the fourth one is in two phases, and the fourth one is the only one that is not conquered. You see, Babylon was conquered by Medo-Persia. Medo-Persia was conquered by the Greek Macedonians, Alexander the Great. The Greek Empire was conquered by Rome. But Rome was never conquered. It fell apart from its own decadence from within. But it continued to exist in mystery form.

Its spiritual moorings continued to exist and it's out of that spiritual form that's called the whore of Babylon that it will emerge again the important thing I want you to see is this is the first of all of those world

superpowers that actually does in fact control every person on the earth before it was in god's in in god's authority and view they controlled everything that was worth controlling they were the superpower of the world even though babylon though Babylon didn't control China. But in God's view, Babylon was a superpower. Okay? When interpreters of the passage tried to apply it to the world of their day,

there's no way they could see how that could be. They said, this must not be literal. It was because that the incredible technology of our day didn't exist. But today it does exist. And what we see is an irresistible force moving the economy more and more to a centralization under one unit.