Triple Click - Beanscast: Elden Ring

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

Happy holidays! To celebrate, we got you an Elden Ring beanscast. Three Consorts to the Lunar Princess gather ‘round the table and talk about their adventures in the Lands Between.If you like this bonus episode, become a Maximum Fun member and get access to 30+ more of em! https://maximumfun.org/joinLINKS AND REFERENCESVaatiVidya on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/VaatiVidyaThe Elden Ring Wiki (Fandom): https://eldenring.fandom.com/wiki/Elden_Ring_WikiJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Hello, everybody. Kirk here, sounding a little bit foggier than usual as I am fighting off a cold or one of the many viruses that's going around. Not COVID, but something else. It hasn't been super fun. But that's okay because we're taking this week off from making new episodes of triple click. However, we are still putting something in the main feed for all of you. And you are all in for a treat. Because if you're not a maximum fun member, for whatever reason, and you haven't been able to listen to the bonus episodes that we put out every month, then you haven't heard this conversation that we had early. or in the year about what else but Eldon Ring. This was our May beans cast, and we call them beans cast because they contain spoilers, a.k.a. we spill the beans on the story. And the story for that, since we don't always go over the origin story for beans castes, is that my nieces would talk about spilling the beans on a story, which was their way of saying, spoiling the story. So these are beans casts where we spoil the story. And we usually do games that we've covered in the main feed, but we can go a little bit more in depth. And that's what we did on Eldon Ring.

That was from May of this year. But like I said, we do a bonus episode for every month that we've existed, which is several years now. We're on our 32nd bonus episode right now. And actually, if you've already heard this because you're a member, first of all, thank you. And second of all, there's a new bonus episode for you in the bonus feed right now about Star Wars Andor. And that was a really fun conversation and a fun bonus episode to put together. So if you've already heard the Selden Ring chat, well, you can just go and listen to the Andor chat. But just to give you a sense of what you are missing,

If you're not yet a member and are maybe considering it, just from this year, we have done bonus episodes about the entire Matrix trilogy plus the new Matrix movie that came out last winter. We did Yellow Jackets Season 1, a really fun TV show that we all loved. We did a beans cast on Die Hard, which Jason had never seen. So Maddie and I got him to watch that for the first time. We did Horizon Forbidden West, followed by Eldon Ring, the episodes you're about to hear. Of course, we did a full beans cast on Sweetodin 2, the game that Jason made both me and Maddie play. That was a lot of fun.

We then did the MCU, a check-in on the Marvel Cinematic Universe for 2022, talking about some of the new movies and shows that are out. We did an episode on Better Call Saul. This was a very fun bonus to record about a show, another show that we all loved. We did an episode that was really cool about the games that formed us, the games that informed our childhood and kind of helped form who we are as lowercase G gamers. We did one on the 1993 Mario movie, which was also a lot of fun, and actually features Fiona Shaw, an actress who turns up really,

wonderfully in Andor. So we've talked about a lot of Fiona Shaw in the bonus feed this year. Then most recently we did God of War Ragnarok last month. Also a really interesting conversation about a game. Well, there's a lot to say about that game. And then like I said, this month, we've got Star Wars Andorra. So that's a ton of content for you. And that's just from this year. There's more than 20 other episodes from earlier years if you become a member. And I hope that you consider it because it helps us keep on making this show. So maximum fun.org slash join if you want to do that. But that's enough for me. Let's get on to it. This is our bean. cast from last May about the great Eldon Ring.

I'm Maddie Myers. I'm Jason Shire. And I'm Kirk Hamilton. And hello. Hello. Hello. Wonderful. Wonderful maximum fun subscribers.

Members, supporters of Triple Click, welcome to the Eldon Ring Beanscast. I'm very excited. Are the two of you excited? We've collected all the pieces. You've united the runes. I thought you're going to be like, Imperians, Eldon Lords, Tarnished, come you one and all. Members of the House of Cario.

We're going to like break out of the stone and they're going to have to fight us in multiple phases in order to listen to this episode. Nah, we wouldn't do that, do you? Are the two of you excited? I'm excited, actually. I'm so excited to talk more about this game. I was very excited to beat it and then I was immediately sad

and then I booted up Dark Souls Swan five minutes after that. Is it weird going to like, how do you go from Eldering the Dark Souls? I feel like Eldering controls so well that it's kind of hard to go back to other from games. It is weird, but

I don't need to get into Dark Souls 1. That's not why we're here. I'm not here to talk about Dark Souls 1. No, I was curious for quick answer. I was just curious for quick answer. It felt weird. It felt weird. The buttons are slightly different.

I kept pressing the wrong buttons, but I'll deal with that on my own time. I think that's an interesting. It's kind of an interesting first question is how do you deal with the hole that this game leaves with the other game? I beat this game in 160 hours is what Steam said, which is probably inflated,

so it's probably more like 140, oh, a mere 140 hours. That's about how long it took me. For what it's worse. Right. Merely the longest I've ever played a game to completion.

Like that's the longest I've ever played something that not destiny or like a single player game. Yeah. And it did leave a hole when I finished it. I wound up playing New Game Plus. I talked about that on the main show. But, um, and still I've been playing it.

Just I'll pick it up some times and go and play a little bit more. Because I'm not quite ready to go back to Dark Souls, but I think you kind of get in that from mindset. You just want to kind of keep going. And New Game Plus in this game is actually very fun. Yeah. I just wasn't quite ready to go to New Game Plus yet because I was like, well, I want to make sure I back up my old save.

What if I want it for some reason? I want to go help somebody out with a boss and I got all my sites of grace lit up and you lose all your sites of grace. That's the thing. And what if there's DLC? What if there's DLC that requires you to go to like a late game site of grace? Yeah. But Kirk backed up his save.

so he's in good shape. I backed up my save. And actually, I'll say that to anyone considering it, new game plus is interesting. It's pretty easy. Your character will most likely be super mighty by the time you're in new game plus, and I just shred everything. I mean, it's not like I'm suddenly a scrub. I'm really doing huge amounts of damage to enemies.

So I think I could pretty safely play the DLC even in New Game Plus. But yeah, I backed up my save. So that's a big deal. Anyway, let's talk about this game. We've all finished it now. we've beaten all the bosses and done all the stuff and, you know, I guess maybe reunited the Eldon Ring or maybe not. I guess I'm curious about the endings you got. Let's talk about that.

What do you think of this game overall? Jason, you and I are a little more removed from it since Maddie you beat it more recently. But Jason, maybe you go first. What do you think of this game now that you're a little removed from it and also which ending did you choose for your first ending? Yeah, well, so I, I of course stuck by my betrothed Ronnie because I couldn't. betray her. And I don't know if that's the right ending. I don't know if that's the good ending.

Is there a right ending? You ushered in an era of Endless Night. Well, Endless Night. I guess that's better than the alternative. I don't think the Urtree is doing such a great job, so I'm fine with Endless Night. I don't think there's a good ending in this game. Yeah, the Ertree kind of sucks. I too, I love it when the Urtree's like translator is like, no, you're going to burn the

your tree. Okay, you can burn your tree. That part is hilarious. I mean, I can't stop. She thinks about it. She's like, you know what? Honestly, that's kind of fair. Like, it feels like such a real reaction though in that moment where she's like, that's so fucked up. And then she's like, actually, so is everything, I guess. So like nothing really matters. I was like, yeah, that's vibes. That's. Yeah. I still got to sell you the armor pieces.

So like, I'll still be here. I mean, we're cool. We're fine. Exactly. Exactly. You and the greater will maybe have some issues. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, you know what? that's fucked up, but I'm also standing next to two gross fingers, so this is all kind of fucked. So who's to say what's fucked up or not? I mean, this is just where we live.

Overall impressions, I don't know. How do you give overall impressions of like the sky or life? It's just like, like, Alderman, it's one of the best games I've ever played. It's one of the best games ever created. It's just like this masterpiece, this singular achievement that just like, has really accomplished something that I think we'll be talking about for ages and haven't felt like that since in a game since really Breath of the Wild. I mean, there have been some other like indie games that have really just like been up there for me in terms of like, holy shit, this is an incredible

experience. It's like this is going to be, this is super innovative and interesting and wild, outer wilds for example. But like in terms of a complete, just absorbing, all-encompassing world to explore, There's really been nothing else like it. And, yeah, deserves every single accolade and piece of praise it's gotten is my kind of my impression. Well, Maddie, you beat it more recently. How are you feeling about it now? Now you're done. I also feel that it is akin to life in the sky.

I have nothing but good things to say. I like it better than the Wilds. I like it better than Skyrim. I like it better than Outer Wilds even, I think. I don't know. I feel like this is the game that. You like it better than Metroid Prime? No, don't even.

Let's not get carried away. That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. We don't even need to compare those things. But it's a good video game. It's a great video game. I can't believe how good it is. I was kind of worried when it first came out about how many people I knew who had never played a from software game and were like, maybe this is the one for me.

And I wrote that article when it first started out where I kind of was trying to encourage people, be like, they're part of it. Parts of it that's going to be really hard. but you got this because I knew a lot of people were going to be trying it and having beaten it and having seen how adaptable it is and how much it really lets you do whatever you want if you're willing to engage with it on those terms and not just try to rush through it in a linear fashion and instead really explore and really immerse yourself in every little piece of it. It's not necessarily hard. It's more just something that takes over every piece of you. And you just have to be willing to let it do that. And then it's easy and it's great.

You just have to accept the parasite of Eldon Ring into your heart. And then you love it the way that we do. But yeah, it's incredible. It's been a very, very long time since I played a game that I felt this way about. Probably not since something like Metroid, honestly, to compare it to my beloved. It really did take over my life in a good way. Yeah, it's been rare for me to play a game that is as engrossing as this one where I really want to keep playing it and also that is just so big.

I mean, the two that come to mind, I suppose, are a Sky Room comes to mind, of course, that was a little while ago, and then Breath of the Wild, and also Divinity Original Sin 2, which is such a long game now that I'm playing that again. Oh, I thought you're going to say the Witcher 3, because that game was like that for you, Kirk. That is true, though.

I wouldn't say that it's quite engrossing on the level of someone's at the game, like mechanically, it's narratively really engrossing, but it's kind of like, you know, you get your sword and you fight the things in the Witcher. It's a little bit less, a little bit less engrossing, and it is very, very long known. It does kind of have a similar scope. And that makes it kind of hard in some ways for me to fully

evaluate this game, even several months after I finished it. Just because it's so big and it was I mean, its impact was just, you know, the cutscene after you beat Redan and the star comes down from the sky and blows a hole on the earth. It's like, that's Eldon Ring. There must be a meme out, a dank meme

with the Eldon Ring box on that thing as it flies down to Earth. And then the game industry is Limgrave or whatever. Because it feels like that. And it's really like, it's going to take a long time to really get a sense of the impact of this game. Because it's just not only so groundbreaking and cool in so many ways, but it was so successful that it's going to have a real impact on other games that we're going to play. And I'm all for it because for all the reasons we've talked about at length on our podcast,

it's a really cool game. And I'd love to see more games embracing mystery and ambiguity, more games allowing players to overcome challenges in all these creative ways, meeting the player on their own terms, and being fair, but also weird in this way that this game is, and all these things that it does. I think, so I've been playing New Game Plus, and New Game Plus is a really great way to focus on the narrative of this game and the world and the characters, the lore, how it all fits together. I've never done that for a From Soft game before. Bloodbourne was the closest that I've done. I really did love the story and world for that game, and it will always have a special place for me. And that was

the first time where I was like, oh, I'm going to kind of learn about this crazy religion that these people follow and these outer beings that have come and, you know, what the hierarchy is like and what's actually happening during the course of this game. But this game is, it's just so much bigger. There's so much more going on. And I would say the backstory is so rich. I do think that that's sort of the George R. Martin influence is that there is really a lot of really cool stuff going on, that it's been cool to watch videos. I watched Vati videos, been putting out a bunch of great videos. I know there's kind of a whole cottage industry of creators who make these lore videos explaining this game. But also just figuring it out for myself, playing through

New Game Plus. I'm not so worried about getting killed or, you know, I'm not as in the moment. So I'm a little more just paying attention to the dialogue and really listening to what NPCs say the first time and understanding what they mean, you know, when they talk about this person or that person. And that has also been really cool. Yeah. I'd like to have that experience. Yeah, I wonder about New Game Plus, yeah, the lore part of it, that certainly seems intriguing to me. It was very difficult to understand the first time I played through anything that was going on. It's still difficult to understand. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, watching video certainly pieces it together for me.

Part of me wonders if playing in a New Game Plus, at least now, with it so fresh in my mind, would not be nearly as satisfying as an experience because part of what makes Eldon Rings so special is not knowing what you were going to find in any given place, even both on a micro, at a macro level, not knowing what the next region was going to be, not knowing what was in this cave. I've thought about that. So what happens in New Game Plus is your map remains unfogged,

but you don't have the states of grace, so you need to go find them. And I think that New Game Plus does reveal some of the games. I wouldn't even want to say shortcomings, but a lot of the criticisms I've seen of the game that are perfectly valid tend to stem from people who've played through it a whole bunch of times because on repetition, it becomes,

clearer how much of the game is optional, how much of the game is kind of copy-pasted, you know, just reused bosses and stuff. A lot of the same bosses. And that starts to feel like more of an issue to you if you are a person who is viewing, you know, the first playthrough of the game is just 30% of their overall experience of it. Yeah, just the beginning. Yeah. Where to me it's still like 80, 90% of my experience with it. So it does kind of reveal that. But I think for me at least, New Game Plus has been a great thing to do while the game is still fresh because I just get to go through it again really quickly and like blast through stuff and just see what's going on and get a better sense of it. And then in a year or two when I've

forgotten stuff and want to replay it, I'll just roll a fresh character. And then I'll have that feeling of powering up and exploring and just going places and seeing things all over again. When I was playing it the first time, I definitely felt like I had to look things up in order to complete quests. And I wonder if I would feel that way on New Game Plus. Of course, I would remember how to complete certain quests. But there were some, Some scenarios, I mean, this is a shortcoming, I suppose, and yet it's also something I find Deering about from Soft Games is how opaque they can be. Like, knowing where certain NPCs were going to be next, if you read every single letter

or whatever thing you tripped over, you might know, oh, Blythe is going to be here next, or like, Millison's going to be in this place because she implied that she'd be next to X, Y, Z. And so you have to know where she is. But I just, I don't know. I can't retain any of that. So I would always have to look it up. And then I would be like, wow, imagine if I had figured that out on my own. That would have been so incredible.

That's it. You got to play with the journal, Maddie. I know. But then it also meant that the times that I didn't look it up and I just so happened to see Millicent or like whomever's quest line I was following would feel so much cooler because I'd be like, oh my God, it's Millicent. I think I've got something for her. I better run on over to her and see what's going on.

How's the old Scarlet Rot treating you, Millicent? How you feel in these days? How's the needle treating you? And like, it would be rad just so happen to run into somebody. And I wanted to experience the whole game that way. And I think if I did New Game Plus, I would be able to do that because I would remember just enough that it would be as though I was kind of tripping over those things. But it is true that the game doesn't really hold your hands.

on that much. No, and it still doesn't for me on New Game Plus. I mean, I knew to look for Millicent, but I still look up where she is to make sure I don't miss her. Rozier, actually, Sorcerer Rozier, who you meet in Stormvale. And he gives you a letter that gives you a clue about Blythe, I think, or no, D. He tells you where to meet Blythe, but he... He does the Black Knife class. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He sets up Ronnie, and he's cool because he basically is the reason that you learn a major piece of the lore, which is that Ronnie orchestrated the murder of Godwin the Goldwyn. Godwin the Goldwyn. It may as well be Goldwyn the Goldwyn.

It's really hard to say. Godwin the Baldwin the Baldwin, you know, the son of the first Eldon Lord, Godfrey. So you learn the whole story of him being killed, which is a major part of the lore of this game and is an interesting little thing to know about Ronnie. Totally missed him the first time. Would have missed him the second time. And it's actually just because he sits in a part of the roundtable hold. You know, he's kind of out on the balcony that overlooks where that guy invades you.

I just never, I didn't see him. I like, didn't notice him there. So I just kind of looked up like, where is this guy? I know that I'm supposed to go talk to him, but I don't know where he is. So I'm still totally looking stuff up on New Game Plus. I don't think, I at least wouldn't be able to just roll through New Game Plus and see everything without looking things up. I'm just way less precious about looking things up on New Game Plus because I've already seen so much of the game and had that fresh experience so. any times. It was playing it before release was really interesting because there wasn't much.

You couldn't really look anything out. There was like a brief reviewers guide that they gave us, which could be, which is helpful, but like not to only, only took you so far. Right. There was a lot of just asking your friends, which was a fantastic way to play. Yeah, which was a fun experience, a fun social experience. And Googling is essentially the kind of asking your friends. It's like asking the internet instead of asking your friends, asking your global network of friends of acquaintances. But yeah. We're asking the triple-click Discord for help.

Well, that, I mean, even that, even having a smaller community is such a cool part of this game. And that's something we discussed a lot. When we were first talking about the game, was that social aspect of just like being able to, that playground feeling and how that real, that would not exist if not for the mystery. Like if the game was giving you tutorials and walkthroughs and guides

and question, question marks on the map showing you where everything was, you would not need to have a Discord channel or a group text of their friends to talk about this stuff. And I think having that is such a cool experience that, yeah, I hope more games take away. Learn from that. Like, take that lesson away from it. Yeah, a really neat thing that I've found and that I was especially funny when I was actively playing New Game Plus was that there was a shift in the way that our community, the triple-click Discord, which is the primary community that I interact with around this game. There's a shift in the way that that community was talking about the game because there

are still people in the main channel talking about, you know, well, I'm in the, you know, Seafir River, where do I go? Like specific gameplay related tips. But there were a lot more people just being like, okay, so wait a minute. What is the relationship between Mikala and Melania? Yeah. And like, what does that mean? And like, who is Molina?

And like, and then just kind of theory crafting, people getting together to try to fill in these Gaffs, which is also what's going on on YouTube. I mean, no one knows the answers to this stuff. And that's what's so cool is that this game leaves so much to the imagination. I mean, Melana, you're the, you know, you're maiden. You're maiden. She's not a maiden, right?

She kind of says at the beginning, I'm not really a maiden. But she's sort of willing to do you a solid. But I'll, like, perform the role of one for you. Yeah, I'll set myself on fire for you as one does. Well, I'll set myself on fire to destroy the urge. I mean, I think she just does that for her own, her own liking, honestly. That part seemed

like that was her ammo. She wants to bring down the earth tree. Yeah. She's not so into helping you. She thinks you might be the tarnished to. Maybe could become an elder elder lord. And it turns out that all three of us could, luckily. It's true. We all did. Well, actually, I don't think any of us actually

became elder lord. Oh, I forgot to say. I also picked Ronnie's ending. Yeah. I think that's a common one. I think it's common. I did feel pretty attached to her after I'd completed her whole quest line. and it felt like the right thing to do somehow. It's probably the least bad ending. I had read enough to kind of know that the other endings were bittersweet.

That one is too, but it's sort of like the ending where you're like, let's get away from all this, honey. Let's go live in the stars. Let's abandon this hell world. Which is really, I mean, a pretty valid thing when you look at what Marica and the Golden Order did to this world. Yeah, and I mean. I want to get the lonesome tongue eater ending. Yeah.

It seems terrible. Yeah, just the outright ending? Is that the chaos ending? Because I know there's a chaos ending. Also, that's a cool ending. I'm going to get that on New Game Plus. That's the three fingers ending. Chaos ending is if you side with the three fingers

and you let him embrace you. Dung eater ending is like, the dung eater has this curse and you can like disperse it among everybody who will ever live and curse everybody forever. And it's just the bleak shit. How is that not the chaos ending?

I guess it's like the pandemic ending. That's tragic. Well, the chaos ending is more, yeah, I think that's more about actual chaos and less about suffering. This is about you are just like, like, everybody is going to suffer because of what you did. So wait, Kirk, what did you pick as your ending? Do we all pick Ronnie? I picked the Ronnie ending as well because she has the most involved quest. I think that it's almost setting you up to pick her ending because, yeah, her quest is so involved.

Because she spends so much time with her. You spend so much time with her. Her character design is so great. And what's so interesting is, I mean, I didn't even really realize. until near the end that she's a doll and that's not what Ronnie even looks like. This is just a doll that her spirit is like inhabiting. She's not this cool little weird.

Right. You find her body. You get her ruin from her dead body. This is something I just saw in a Vati video that I didn't realize. You can see her red hair because she's Redan's sister. Like she looks like Radan. She has that same red hair because she's, you know, Radagon's one of Radagon's children.

Which is so wild that I like completely. didn't notice that. And there's so much stuff like that. I mean, this is also in his recent video, something that was so cool is she was like, you know, she's Rinala's daughter. Rinala is like the queen of the full moon. And so she follows the full moon, which is one of the outer gods. And then there's a whole thing with Rinala where Rinala, or I'm sorry, there's a whole thing with Rani. This is just going to be a nightmare. Here we go. I should talk slower. There's a whole thing with Rani, where she was given an aspect of the dark moon, which is a different moon than the full moon,

or at least a different phase of the moon. And you know when you finally get up onto that plateau in Learnia, and you're like, there's the dragon up there, and it's kind of near the end of Ronnie's quest line, if you look up to the sky, you can see both moons, the dark moon and the full moon. So like her mom and her, and that's like the god that she's following is the dark moon,

and that's what she brings about for the ending. This stuff is all actually in the game. Like, it's really there. It's just, I never would have noticed it if someone hadn't pointed it out to me. Yeah, it's so wild. I felt very excited when I was doing all of Millicent's quest, and I felt like I was actually following it as I did it. And then the reveal that she is related to Melania, like, really did hit me when she said that,

because I was like, oh, damn, like, I've been hanging out with you so much, and you're related to this horrible lady I can't beat and who's just been giving me hell for the past however many hours when I keep going back into check on her to see if I'm strong enough. And then I'd be like, well, I guess I'll go to some more Millicent's quest since I can't do anything against this freaking millennia. And then the fact that like both of them have the scarlet rot, they both end up with the sort of prosthetic arms. They both have this similar story.

And then they both turn into beautiful flowers at the end. It's all very medieval virginhood. This is like, is this new? I don't remember doing any of Millicent's quest. Oh, it's in there, man. Her quest may have been one of the ones That was bugged for some people I would have a mug

Because I did not do it Like I cured her and that was the end That was as far as it went Well yeah That was true for me as well That's too bad then Oh so if you keep talking to her You give her the needle

And if you keep talking to her She'll be like you know My arm doesn't work Can you get me a metal arm And you find a metal arm You give that to her I can't remember how Don't quiz me on this

It was hours ago And of course Melania has a metal arm as well because she also had the scarlet rot. And then the sort of tragic turn, which I guess I'm going to spoil for you, is that Millicent, the way the needle works is that it basically, I mean, makes it so that the scarlet rot doesn't progress anymore, but it doesn't cure her. Because it's unalloyed gold, which is the only thing that Scarlet rot like is vulnerable

to is unalloyed gold, which is the same as I think Melania's armor. But again, it doesn't fix all over problems. It just sort of stops it and sort of. freezes her in time so she like can't progress forward as a person sort of that's how I took it from her is this sort of metaphysical existential crisis that she was having where she was like I want you to take out the needle again or I'm going to take out the needle again and I'm just going to die because I don't want this to be the rest of my existence is like sort of being cursed with this needle and obviously you kill Melania as well I mean she she also doesn't hang around forever and after you

kill her, you can use the needle on Melania's flower to, like, get her loot, get her somber ancient dragon smithing stone. And I don't really know why that's the case. That's so cool. Okay. So that also, all right, now I'm remembering that part is at least linked to the chaos ending because you can, so the way it works is if you get embraced by the three fingers and you like go down the root of the chaos ending, you're stuck to it unless you do this. And then there's a way you can kind of reverse. that choice and it's by going through this. With the needle and the flower.

Right, because the needle sort of stops time in a way. Well, so the unalloyed gold is not, it's like impervious to the will of the gods and there's a goddess of rot and there's also the frenzied flame which are two outer gods and those so both of those gods have no influence

of an alloy gold. I think that's what I've read. I think that that's accurate. So that would make sense that you could use the needle. Yeah, it's anatoid. Doi. It's obvious, Kirk. For both of those things. This stuff, so I think this stuff is all pretty neat. I love it. I love it.

I will say it's neat. And like one of the other things in Millicent's quest, this is just the other bit of it, because I'm spoiling all of it for you guys, because this is a beans cast. Before she dies, you have to fight off these summoned versions of her sisters. And you guys are going to see fan art of this now that I've told you about it, where there's all these other little redheads who are also related to Melania and Millicent. And it's like, who are these random women? And you never find out who they are.

It's just like they're her sisters who are like haunting her and you have to help her fight them off so that she can like die peacefully. It's like you're sort of helping this person die, which is sadly what you do for a lot of the characters. I mean, that's really, I mean, that's like the From Soft M-O, but certainly this game is you're going to meet people and like them and then kill them. Isn't the whole premise here that like everybody, that the reason that you're in this game is because nobody can die because what's her name took the part of the aspect of death from. the Eldon Ring in the first place. Well, that's not why you're in the game, but that is something that's set a lot of this in motion. But that's what sets off the plot in motion. That's what I'm saying, Kirk.

Yeah, that it sets off. It's like the... You're in the game because I think, well, no one really knows, but I think a theory is that Marika wants someone to reforge the Eldon Ring. The Tarnished were all banished from the lands between. And so now the Greater Will is like calling you back because one of you has to ascend to the throne, reunite the Eldon Ring, and, like, reestablish the Golden Order. And then, of course, a million different people are like, you shouldn't do that. You should do this instead. The

Golden Order sucks for this reason and that reason. And so then you wind up being the, what is it, it's a tarnished of no renown, is how your character is officially referred to. You wind up being the one who does that. If you choose to do that, which, of course, none of the three of us did choose to do that. But you could. What a boring ending. You could. But yeah, Marika of removing destined death or the ruin of death was definitely a major inflection point. Because then that let Ronnie steal it, which then let her kill Godwin, which then set all this stuff in motion. Well, so that's why it's very important that you help people die. Yeah. And also there's all these undead walking everywhere, just like in any other From Soft Game, where it's like, well, why is there all these skeletons?

I mean, I'm just assuming it's something to do with this whole death situation here. And the idea of helping somebody find peace, I mean, it's tragic, but it is usually the quest line of a lot of these characters. And I've seen a lot of people be like, oh, you know, it's kind of ironic, like all the women of Eldon Ring are better off if you never talk to them. And I mean, that's like a funny bit. But I don't know if I agree with that because I'm like, I feel like Millicent, I mean, yeah, I guess she would have really been fucked either way. She would have been cursed with the Scarlet Rod if I didn't help her. But at least I helped her die in peace and not as painfully, and that feels like a better ending for her than she would have had otherwise.

Fia's questline, I also did. Don't think I could explain or summarize what happened at that quest light, but I did do every piece of it. She was trying to reunite a death ruin, and then she wound up killing D because D has a whole thing where he's trying to kill people who haven't died. But then she still died. Like, I fought all of her champions, and I was like, we're cool now. And then she just killed over and died.

And I was like, oh, well, huh. You have a little less sure about Fia. I mean, everybody in this world is trapped in this stagnant existence. And you finally shaking it up, I would imagine, can only be a relief to just about everyone there. Yeah, it takes a video game protagonist to really shake things up in these worlds, you know? And it fits with it being a game that, like, what you're going to go do is fight and kill everybody. Because this is a game about fighting and killing people. That's fundamentally basically the only thing you do.

And so, of course, it tracks that they built a world where that's the best thing you can do for every single character. Well, there's also the fishing mini game. That's how I explained. We can't forget that. My favorite, so I think the coolest bit of lore in this game is Redan. Because he's also one of the coolest characters, coolest boss. Because he has a tiny horse? He has a tiny horse.

It is related to the tiny horse. Well, it's actually a regular-sized horse. I mean, an old horse, but a regular-sized horse. He's just a very big boy. Big Redan, regular-sized horse. Big boy on a regular horse. It's important that we correct people on this. This is going to be become the Frankenstein's monster of our show,

is that we're like, actually, Radon's horse is regular size. It's Redon who's big. Redaun is a big boy. Redan went to that farm, and I think you should leave where the horses all... You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah, so he... I really like that the explanation for Kalid winds up totally making sense, and this is something

that on New Game Plus is a lot clearer, because when I first got to Kalet, I was like, fuck this place and left, because that's how everybody reacts to Kalid. And they explain it really early on. It's like, well, the Scarlet Rod has blessed them. And yeah. But when you know, and it's even in one of those promotional cutsees is the fight between Melania and Redan, where she, like, summons the huge flower, the rot flower that blasts out the rod and, like, destroys the land. You see that happen in a cutscene. But I didn't really remember that.

Or maybe didn't have the context for it to even know what you were looking at. That stuff goes in one ear and out the other when you don't know what it means. And then you rewatch it and you're like, oh, shit, I know what all this means now. And this was that experience. So that was cool. He is just a fantastic boss fight. that fight is amazing. The name Star Scourge Redan

is an amazing name. Amazing. One of the best names for a from character ever. So metal. What's so cool is that he, so he learned gravity magic, right? Which is a form of magic

that you can learn. It's the purple one. It does physical damage. Very useful for spellcasters. I gather, though I've never played a spellcaster. No idea. And he learned it so that he could ride his horse,

which is the funniest best shit. It's so Frommsoft that there's this detail that they wrote in. where first you see the guy. I mean, my experience of fighting Redan was I had a real hard time with the fight. It was before they nerfed him and then they buffed him, but it was like right at the beginning when it was really hard. And you're doing this fight and you go out and it's this whole epic showdown and you're summoning the guys and you're running toward him. It's this really dramatic, incredible fight.

And then I'm fighting and I'm just getting worked and I'm like, God, this guy's so big. His reach is so far. I can't get away from him. And then like the third or fourth time I'm like, what's the deal with his horse? And then I couldn't. Like I didn't see it until. then. It was, you know, I was just playing the game, not thinking about it. And then I realized this guy's horse is on a normal horse and it looks, he actually looks hilarious. Yeah, he really does.

And then it turns out there's a whole lore explanation. He learned gravity magic so he could float and like ride the horse without killing it because he's so big. And then he also is using the gravity magic to control the stars. He's stopped the stars in the sky and so the stars don't move. And as a result, his sister, Ronnie, her destiny can't be fulfilled because her destiny is tied in with the movement of the stars in the cosmos. That's a cool, that's just a cool idea. So that's why you can't access the city of Nokron until... Exactly.

Because her whole thing, her bringing about the age of night, can't happen until Radana's dead because Radan is keeping destiny from happening by freezing the stars in the sky, which is some big, cool shit. And anyway, so then you kill him, and then, of course, the stars begin moving again, and you see them moving. There's that whole cutscene where the huge star falls to Earth, and then that sets Ronnie's next phase in motion. That's some awesome stuff.

So there's this great piece of key art from the game that is Melania facing off with Redon. And the meme surrounding it is that everybody before the game was out was like, oh, this badass like redhead chick fighting against this evil nasty warrior. But then you play the game and it's like, oh, actually, like the Chad Radon who just wants to save his horse versus like this woman who casts. the literal virgin millennia. Yeah, the virgin Melania who gets mad and casts a plague on everybody. Yeah.

Right. It's the hardest boss ever. Aw. I feel sorry for Melania too. I mean, it's a from soft game, so you end up feeling sorry for every single boss, and you learn too much about them, and you're like, oh, they're all cursed and tragic. Even the dung eater, I felt sorry for that guy. I didn't complete his whole quest, but I was like, dang, the dung eaters really have him a tough time.

Like, he's out here. He's just being a dung eater. You know? Smashing his head against the wall. Yeah, when you find him and he's just smashing his head against the wall all alone? And I was like, that's a good thing I came along. I mean, he's not a pleasant person to talk to. I will say that.

Don't care for the guy at all. Didn't want to hang out with him. But, hey. No, and his storyline is a little hard to like finish. Yeah, I didn't finish it. There's a phase of it where you have to find like every single piece of whatever thing he eats and give it to him. And I was like, I'm not doing that. That's only if you want to do that.

his terrible ending, so you don't want to do that. Well, you can get his armor and not do his ending, but I did go find those. And you can get him as like a summon. You can get him. But of course, I was just using mimic all the time. And I was like, I don't need to summon the dung eater. No offense to that guy. Feel for him, though.

No, it was the phase where he kills the actual best character in the game. What's the name? The guy who makes the shrimp. The lobster salesman. The shrimp guy. The blackguard. Bing! His name is Blaggard Big Boggart. Again, that's Blackguard, Big Boggart. Bing! But he's the best, and then he, of course, has a history with the dung eater. And so then he moves from Learnia to a lake that's right

next to the capital, to Lyingdale. And then you have to go find him, and he's freaked out because he's like, oh, man, the dung eater's coming. And then the dung eater summons in. Or you come back and find him and he's dead. The dung eater summons in, and then you have to fight him. You have to find the dung eater. And it just took a while to trigger that. And it was actually the update where they added NPC markers on the map was the only reason that I knew he was there and could go find him. So I was grateful for that update. Oh, yeah.

It was pretty wild that I was playing the game without those NPC markers, like just creating markers for every single merchant. That was the main thing that I remember doing. I'm just being like, wow, I don't know where they are. I just had a notepad file and it was just writing everything down in my Nopepad file, which was helpful. And I would still do that even with the markers. Although the markers are pretty helpful. Yeah, they're fine. I like them. No, they're good.

So I think that I want to kind of expand upon something I said earlier, which is that I think that one of the appeals of this game is just really having no idea what's going to happen next or what you're going to find next. And I think that's something that's so rare in a game and so many games just telegraph everything for you, whether it's just like really meticulously like showing you every single corner of a map before you can even get a chance to go there, like, showing you that,

like, oh, this next area is going to be for level six. So don't go there because you're just level four, the far cry effect or whatever it is. And in this game, like, so many of my most memorable moments, as I'm sure everybody's were, we're just like fucking around and finding yourself someplace and just being like, wow, this is amazing. I have no idea where I am. This is so cool. So this is my story of the most memorable experience. that I had in Eldon Ring was I was doing co-op with our buddy Mike Groucho in the Academy, and we wound up going to the basement, and I wind up getting eaten by an abductor, and somehow got teleported to the Volcano Manor.

I had no idea what the Volcano Manor was. Just wind up in the middle of nowhere, looking at my map, freaking the hell out. I'm just like, where am I, dude? In a cave full of lava. In a cave full of lava and, like, nasty lava worms that wanted to destroy me. Yeah, Volcano Manor is extremely messed up the first time you go pretty much no matter how you get there. Especially if that's how you go. Especially if that's how you go.

I was not prepared. And it was the coolest thing. And I think that like that's the type of thing that like I'm always searching for in a video game is that experience of like not knowing what's coming next and just being completely surprised and delighted. And one of the things that I really noticed with Eldon Ring when we were talking about it when the discourse surrounding it, it first came out in the days before he came out and then the days afterwards is that everyone was so careful to not even mention location names or not even mention like what comes after the capital or like how big the game is like I remember people were just very secretive about like oh there's an entire area after the capital because you would assume that the capital would be the end of things

but no I'm not on top of the giants etc etc and that I thought was just so cool and it was awesome to be part of that conversation as it was happening yeah those surprises all Also, of course, I'm sure one that got a lot of people is the chest next to where the dragon is in the lake. The Caylet chest, yeah. Yeah, that sucks you over to Kalid and puts you in that horrible place full of giant bugs that kill you. And I was in Discord with another one of our friends who had that happen to him. Like, well, I was listening and then he got them and lost a whole bunch of ruins. It was very funny.

So that experience is really cool. And then replaying the game certainly doesn't give that experience, but it does give me an appreciation for all of these little things. things that I missed. One fun thing about that abductor Jason is if you meet Patches in Leornia, patches, of course, the little rascal from all of these games who is always a trickster and is always lying and pulling shenanigans on you. And you run into him in Leonea if you don't kill him in Limgrave. And he's still selling the same stuff. And he gives you a tip. And he's like, hey, the Academy of Rai Lucarias over there. and if you go into the basement, there's this old abductor from the war,

and it'll teleport you to... I think he's like, it'll teleport you to the Capitol. It'll take you right where you're trying to go. So, like, go check it out. And of course, he's lying. Incredible. And so the game does sort of push you in that way because I actually didn't know about it.

I just ran away from that abductor and it didn't catch me. But the game kind of in this one way pushes you that way, where whenever patches tells you something, you're like, you're probably lying. But then it would at least, it kind of signals that you should go down there and see, because something will happen. It's like, well, he's lying.

Something horrible will happen. But it might be kind of funny and it's worth doing. I had an experience like that with discovering Jarberg, which is amazing and gorgeous. Yes. I never found it. I never found that. You still got to go back and find it. I just tripped into it and was just utterly charmed by it because, of course, the little pop boys.

I mean, they were a meme for a reason before the game came out because they're so freaking adorable. And like, Alexander's Quest is great. It's so bizarre. just so bizarre that he's filling himself with dead bodies so that he can become stronger. As opposed to all the other happy endings. I know. Particularly sad when it's a likable NPC that you have to slaughter. Yeah, they're all, they're all somewhat bittersweet.

But Jarburg is just freaking adorable. And the fact that I found it by accident and that no one had told me about it because it was too early on. And then I could like go into work slack and be like, does anyone know about Jarberg? And then like, no one knew about Jarberg. And I got to be the person who's like, okay, I'm not going to tell you. anything else other than that is Jarburg, so it's pretty obvious what it is, but here's where you should go to find it. And just getting to trade that information along to people was rad. And

a lot of my favorite memories of the game are like that. Like at one point, my friend Nico was streaming the game on Twitch and me and Gita were watching your play. And like somebody just told her like, oh, there's a cave over there where you can actually like find some really cool stuff. And like it was a place that all of us had been a billion times before. It's like the beach where you fight Redaun and like, why would there be a cave on? that beach, but there is if you go all the way to the end of it. And it's like, I would never have gone all the way to the end of that beach. It's huge.

And there's like one side of grace there. And it's like literally why would you run all the way to the end of that beach? But like just the fact that somebody was like, oh, hey, Nico, like go check that out. I was like, that's awesome. I'm going to like load up my game after this and go check out that same cave because that's rad. And I don't know. It's just a cool feeling.

I can answer that question of why would someone do that because I did that. And it was a perfect encapsulation of why these games were so good. And it's because I beat Radan. You defeat Radon. And it was this huge battlefield. You're just standing in this empty desert. And I'm like, well, I guess I'm supposed to fast travel back to the castle. And then I thought, you know, there's probably something over there.

Just because that's, like, there's probably something over there is the motto of Eldon Ring. Why would there be this huge area if there wasn't something? So I started heading to the north. I'm going to go all the way up the coast, all the way up to the end. end of the cliffs, and I'm going and going and going and going. And then eventually, you don't see it. You can't see it. No, not until you're really there. And I was like, I guess there really is something. Wait a minute. And then it was there. And it was that feeling that I think you have so often in this game of just trusting the game developers, trusting that they put something to reward you,

even if it's just a little thing or like, you know, in this case, it was a catacomb that was too hard for me to go through and I kind of didn't even want to deal with. But just finding something and knowing it was there. I feel like there's a relevant item there. Heck, if I can remember what it is, but there's like something you need for something else. One, it's a cool, it's a cool catacomb because it's unique. It's a cool attention.

All these spirits are like fighting each other. Right, because there's ghosts fighting one another that you can kind of, you can actually hang out and just absorb their ruins as they kill one another. Yes. Always a perk. Eventually they notice you and then they come kill you. You can't just leave your controller and go make lunch. Yeah.

Also, like, being somebody, somewhere where you're not supposed to, to be is most of the fun of Eldon Ring and I had that experience many, many times and already miss it a lot. Like the first time I went to the Siafra River well, I was like way underleveled, but it meant that any grinding I could do was so awesome, ruins-wise. So I like packed on a bunch of levels just by being somewhere that I wasn't supposed to be because those guys were so hard. And then it means that later on when I went back, I was like, oh, this is cake now. This is so easy. I can just slaughter these guys in two seconds. It just feels amazing at that point because I'm a terrible person and I just want to destroy the ancestral

river and everyone who lives there and all the beautiful moose that live there I want to kill both of those guys um those ancestral spirits are one of those sad from bosses or that mournful beautiful music plays had to get those ruins though so as more and more game developers just kind of like take away and get inspired by this game try to take away things from this game I hope they take away the right lessons because like it's not this game is so... Everything about this game is so synergistic and working so closely together

that you can't really take one aspect of it without the other. Like, the exploration and the brilliance of the mystery and the opacity of it all would not be nearly as cool if not for the amazing like moment to moment combat and how good it feels and how fun it is to just like interact with the world on a regular

basis. And similarly, the difficulty of it all would not be nearly as interesting or as engaging if not for the exploration and the way that the game pushes you don't want to keep finding out what's next what's behind this difficult boss like the difficulty alone is not what's appealing about it at all either it's really the entire package and I think that like if you're going to um take aspects of this and apply them to the next I don't know uncharted or whatever the next big open world

the next assassin's creed you really need to be careful because just kind of isolating one variable is not going to get you the results you want yeah I think that it's common especially in some, you know, in some development studios to just borrow aesthetics without really understanding how they work. I mean, this is, there are so many, you know, Metroidvania, two-D Metroidvania style games that look like Hollow Night that have a similar art aesthetic to Hollow Night, but that don't quite capture what makes Hollow Night great, because that's a lot harder to do with the game is to, like, actually make it all work and fit together and, you know, lock in place the way that it does in this game. Yeah. But I think, I think that,

the whole trusting the player, you know, leaving things to the imagination mystery thing, this game is going to be a catalyst for that because it's such a massive example of that and it's also so successful. I hope so. That's been catching on for a long time, I think. Like, I think there's been more and more of that in games just over the past decade. I mean, really, since Dark Souls became such a hit. I'm also just really hopeful that the environmental storytelling aspect is what catches on, because I feel like that is a piece of it that could just be extrapolated out without necessarily having the really satisfying combat across every single class and everything feels balanced and no matter what you pick, you can always move forward. Like, that's really

hard to design. But just having a game where, oh, it looks like there should be something over there and then there is. Or like Patch is having the joke that he tells you and that helps push you in the right direction rather than the game having a big arrow pointing that way and being like, come check out this basement. You'll never believe what's behind the store. Like just having the environment telling you where to go and having the design of a landscape indicate to you, oh, look at those weird rocks.

Those look different from the other rocks. Is there anything over there? And then there is, and there's like steps going down and oh my God, you're a Nocron and it's fucking crazy. I don't know. That part of Eldon Ring is what's so freaking cool.

And I know people talk all the time about like, oh, the quests are so opaque. And I even said that earlier on this call. But that's not what's so great about it, really. It's the fact that it feels opaque, but it's actually telling you exactly what to do, those moments are incredible. Very Half-Life 2-2-esque. Yeah, and on top of that, the map also, I think you look at that map, and a lot of kerfuffle has been made about the lack of map markers and the way that's all presented.

But you look at the map, yeah. And so I think that endemic experience of looking at the topography of the map and seeing, oh, there's a castle here, oh, there's a tower here. Like, you can actually figure out exactly what you're looking for. And that is what makes the exploration so fun is that like you know that there's a tower here and you're kind of getting this addicted to this rush of like figuring out what it is. And it's such a like small but

massive difference to have a little drawn tower or a little drawn castle as opposed to a question mark. And like have it be endemic as opposed to the game telling you there's something here just piques your curiosity so much more. Because in part because

you don't know if there's actually going to be something all that interesting there. And a question mark that the game is telling you kind of reveals that there is. But also just like the fact that it feels like so it's just so much more interesting to be able to look at this map and kind of decipher it for yourself instead of being held, like your hand being held the entire time. Or it's like you have to do this tower first and they're all labeled and you know the labels and six characters are going to tell you it's this tower first. And there are four outposts to find here. And there are four outposts to find Yeah, I mean, it's way cooler to just so happen. Like I think both Kirk and I happen to find each piece of the elevator medallion the first time around.

And it's like just so happening to already have the right medallions and then you get to the place where you need to use them is rad as hell. Because then you're like, oh, sick. I didn't know what these were for. But good thing, I found these. Now I'm going to take this elevator. It's the best. Yeah, that process of finding, of getting the first half of the medallion from. what's her name?

The snake Raya maybe is her name? And then looking at that item description and it says the other half is in this fort and the fort is over in Caleb and I'm like, wait a minute, I've been to that fort and I go there and kind of sneak past the things that get the other half of it and then I can go up early.

It's very cool. And I agree, Jason. I think the map in this game is one of, it's one of the game's most remarkable triumphs really. Yep, definitely. Because so much of the game is, I mean, it's a triumph. It's a really great game. But that I've just never quite

It feels fresh to me. It feels like a new thing. It's a great example of removing user interface from the experience and just putting the thing in front of people. And then that being a really cool way to play the game. And it doesn't feel tedious. It doesn't feel like you have to, you know, I'm trying to think of it. There was the whole period of time in the kind of early, maybe early 2010s where you didn't just have a menu. You had a room that you had to walk around.

And then you had to go up to the table to save. and then you had to go to the crafting table to craft. And it's like, oh, we're putting you in the world. So we're making it so you're kind of more immersed in the world. And sometimes that can just kind of feel annoying, where you're kind of thinking, I'd rather just have a menu where I can do this. I don't really get the point of this.

It doesn't feel like that because it's just something in all of those things synergizing, in the viewpoints, like the vistas that you have when you're looking out over the horizon and you can see all these places mixing with your knowledge of the geography of the world, mixing with this thing you're looking at, and then you're realizing slowly, like the dawning realization of how useful the map is. Oh, oh, holy shit. Oh, that's actually what a mind looks like. It's always a little red thing.

So, oh, there's one right there. Well, I need more crafting stones. So I should just go right there first. And then I'll get some stones. And then you kind of have that realization in soon. You know, looking for Jarberg was that way for me where I was. I knew that Jarberg existed because I'd seen someone mention it, but I didn't know what it was. And I just kind of scoured the map until I found something that looked like it could be a town somewhere that I hadn't been.

with a bunch of little jars. Yeah, they were all on the map. No, they aren't. It's also just, that's part of the fun of it, is that sometimes I would just go to places on the map, even if they didn't look interesting, but I'd have no sight of grace there or, like, wasn't sure what was there.

And I'm like, let me just go check out whatever's over there. And, like, that in and of itself, an amazing way to while away many hours. And again, I just don't feel like I've had that experience with that many games. Also, Kirk, it's funny for you to say that games used to have a room that you walk around because that is exactly what you do at Eldon Ring, which is maybe the point that you were making,

like, when you're in the roundtable hold and you're like going to like, okay, I got to level up my summons. Okay, I got to level up my stuff with the blacksmith. Right, it doesn't feel artificial. Part of why I think it doesn't feel artificial is that both of those people, I mean, you talk to them the most and FIA, they all have their own quest lines that I actually really liked in each case. And the part where the blacksmith doesn't remember you anymore at the end of the game

because like the roundtable hold is losing its essence was, genuinely heartbreaking to me because I was like, Hugh, we've been talking this whole time, man. Like, I'm the tarnished. You've made me the weapon, man. And like he doesn't know who you are anymore. I just, I don't know. He's more than a save point is what I'm saying. He just, it feels like, it feels like some thought was put into each of those pieces that make it feel much more like a real world as opposed to just a chore where you're like, oh, I got to walk all the way over to this guy. Mattie, you should write that song. He's more than a save point. Yeah, I got to pivot into Eldon Ring songs.

Enough about Metroid. Been there, done that. You know what I mean? Eldon Ring concept album. So I want to talk about Skyrim and how I think that for a lot of people, certainly for me, Eldon Ring is one of the very few games, maybe even the only game, one of the few games that has really recreated that feeling of exploration that Skyrim did.

And Skyrim, when it came out, was really this revolutionary experience. And I think that one of the reasons that Skyrim felt so revolutionary back then is because it really felt like there was the potential that you could find anything in any given place. Like you get somewhere. Oftentimes you're going to find some shitty jogger catacomb. But occasionally you'll find some God who takes you on this like drunken kind of crazy side quest or you'll find some really cool artifact that like takes you somewhere else or takes you on a quest. You didn't even know existed or whatever it is. or you'll find some like fascinating piece of environmental storytelling like a dead family and or I guess like fall out three cannibals is the one I think about all the time but that that sort of thing

I think Eldon ring really takes that to another level because it has so many systems and so many different kind of optional activities and side quests and secrets that there really can be anything and oftentimes more often than not you'll get to the end of the dungeon and you'll find something that actually is interesting. And sometimes it'll be like a spell you can't use or a piece of gear that isn't all that useful for your build. But other times it will be something that is like legitimately cool and out there and interesting. You know, that comparison is interesting.

I don't know that I totally agree that the systems are more complex in Eldon Ring because I see Eldon Ring as a more limited experience in terms of what you're capable of doing than Skyrim specifically or Breath of the Wild, which is a little closer to Skyrim, which I've been playing a little bit of recently too. Because in Skyrim, there's so much more simulation going on. There's a whole economy. There's a lot more peaceful stuff you can do with NPCs. There's a lot more social role-playing, like social systems related to persuasion and that kind of thing. Well, I'm talking about the RPG, the gameplay systems. Like, there are a bazillion different resistances you can have. There are a bazillion different things, weapons types that you can use and medallions you can have.

and I'm not talking about simulation type systems. No, but when you're talking about like the feeling of possibility that Skyrim gives versus the feeling of possibility that Alden Rings gives, just for me, Eldon Ring does have an incredible feeling of possibility, but it for me is within a more limited sphere. That's not a bad thing. It just means that the game feels a little more like I'm going to find something. It's going to be cool.

It's going to tell me something about the world, and I'm probably going to have a cool fighter I'm going to tie it an interesting way. Where I do think that a game like Skyrim offers a wider horizon of possibility, because it could be you find a town and then you talk to all the different characters and you wind up playing them against one another and you have a whole complicated thing and then you go and like hunt some fish

for them but then the fish is poisoned and then you have to clean the fish in the fountain it's like that kind of stuff is happening more in that kind of game and I do really like that kind of stuff I think that Eldon Ring it's a more of a from soft kind of experience where you're pretty much going to go kill something

right there are no friendly towns yeah and given that there working within that restrained or that more restricted system, I would argue that they're able to do a lot more, to go a lot deeper with the systems that they've got, just like you're saying. I mean, and also there's there's so much more complexity to, you know, combat into all these, these other aspects of that. And builds that you can make. Okay, well, so, okay, slight counterpoint there, I think because Eldon Ring's combat and the mechanical systems that I'm talking about are so much better than either Skyrim or Breath of the Wild or really any game of this nature. Um, it. Um, it. Um,

it makes the rewards more exciting and it makes it all the more exciting when you find a cool new, like, ash of war or like summon that you can play around with or weapon you can experiment with, as opposed to Skyrim, where if you find another amulet that gives you plus 10% to magic or whatever, it's hard to really give a shit. Or like Breath of the Wild, you find another sword that's going to break in 10 minutes. It doesn't really matter. To be clear, I'm not saying that Skyrim is better or that Eldon Ring is better. I think that what Eldon Ring does is it allows,

it really focuses in and as a result, it's able to achieve sort of a different outcome, a different feeling. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that that is just as rewarding in some ways and better and more rewarding in other ways. Yeah, no, I agree in the sense that playing through an entire dungeon, even if the rewards were not something I was looking for,

like if they were for a magic build, which I didn't have, the experience of having played through the dungeon would have been fun. Like solving that puzzle was its own reward. Of course, the ruins were their own reward sometimes. also just having that experience of playing the game was fun, which is also kind of a rare thing that just spending a few hours on a dungeon that doesn't matter to the end of the game and isn't relevant to anything and gives you a reward that you don't care about, the fact that so often in Eldon Ring, I was like, well, that was worth it because it was three hours

of playing Eldon Ring, a game that owns. Like, I just, I don't have that experience scarcely ever where I'm just like, yeah, Yeah, oh well. Like there was a point where I lost 11 hours of my save and I wasn't even that mad because it was 11 hours that I had spent just exploring and like running around doing stuff and having fun in the game. Like thank goodness I didn't fight a boss and then lose that. That would have sucked. But because it was just 11 hours exploring, I was just like, whatever. Like that's 11 hours of Eldon Ring. I'm going to go play some more hours of Eldon Ring now. Like that's just what it is. I'm just hanging out. And it's great. Great. Yeah, I think it's also a huge point in the game's favor that it's so easy to respect your character. Yes. Because I at least found that even when I did find, you know, spells or things that I couldn't use, it was always in the back of my head that like, well, you know, maybe one day I'll respec and want to use this, which I did even find just respecting to be a Dex bleed character. Yeah.

Like suddenly a whole bunch of stuff that was totally off the table for me as a strength character was really useful. And I had all these awesome katanas that I could use. Same. I did the same thing. that I had like held on to a few decks weapons that I was like I might use this someday like I might end up using this and then I did in the end and it was so awesome that I could have a little bit of build. Well you can hold on unfortunately there's no inventory weight which is a remarkable change

for then very very easily really nice so you don't have to get rid of anything also something that's super smart about this game that I believe is not the case in any other soul's games is that every item is unique you're never going to find a duplicate sword or duplicate shield or whatever else. Like it's all one of a kind. Well, you find duplicates of unique items, but you can just get rid of them. I've definitely gotten more than one, you know,

like short sword or whatever. Like short sword or whatever. Yeah. But it doesn't, but it's not, yeah, you're not fine. You're not, your inventory isn't full of like 20 different bastard swords that you have to like reorganize and sell and discard. I mean, after I played enough, it kind of was.

I definitely had some, some, like, armor. I have a lot of duplicate armor from the various soldiers. So that does happen. But the drops are rare enough that it's not, it's not like what you're talking about, where you're like, oh, my God, and because inventory weight can be a thing in other games, just the feeling of wanting to pick everything up and then not having room in St. We couldn't too, where I'm like, can I please just pick up everything from every treasure chest? Yeah, without having to leave it.

Yeah, the three-page limit is so annoying. Maddie, to your point about it being just fun on a moment-to-moment thing, I think Breath of the Wild really comes closest to that for me, although the combat is better in Eldon Ring and I hope that I guess it's too late for Breath of the Wild 2 but I hope Breath of the Wild 2 feels a little bit a little bit better in terms of like

the moment to moment comment but yeah that's what I was saying that's what I was saying earlier that I hope that like if people are taking away lessons from this if game designers are taking things away from this it's that it all has to work synergist like it has to work in synergy together because

the combat the moment to moment just enjoyment of it all is just such a key part of what makes this game special and not a lot of games have that Yeah, and I mean, to go back to our Skyrim, Eldon Ring comparison, a thing that a designer could take away from this as well is, you can limit the scope of an RPG, and you don't have to include every single thing under the sun.

And in doing so, it's actually easier to achieve synergy that then lets you go in, like, hard and really get this great thing going, this, like, vortex of different systems bouncing against you where the game just feels supercharged compared to something that's just kind of a little broader and a little more surface level. Yeah, although, I mean, I would say that's kind of been the from, soft career move is to just be like let's go real hard on super precise feeling adaptable combat and make it feel freaking amazing game to game and just really hone that and elden ring is the

pinnacle of that and i i don't even know where they go from here i honestly do wonder it'll be i'll be curious to see yeah how's the l d l d ls i'm going to get some d lsc it's easy it's going to be it's going to be the best thing ever this is it i mean i sure hope there's dLC the theory if you look at the map. There will absolutely be DLC. If you look at the map, the theory I've seen is that so the six towers, the six divine towers, all point to like one, or all kind of like a surrounding this big clouded area and the whole map. So theory could be that that's where the DLC will take place. And there are so many questions about the world and the characters that we just don't have

any answers to and that haven't been provided. Like what's up with Mikaela and Moog? Like we know a little bit, but like what really happened there? I mean, there's so many. what really happened theirs of Elton Ring that can still be fleshed out. So many triple-click episodes, what's the deal with Mikilla? What's the deal with Moog? We're going to find out what's the deal with Molina, I feel like that. I hope so.

A big question. Well, there needs to be an in-game. Eldon Ring 2 needs to come with an in-game version of Triple-Click where they explain, where the three of us explain what the deal is. We don't want that. You listen to do a podcast while you explore. Please know. Well, we want it if it's us.

And just if they pay us to do it, then... Okay, but if it's us doing it, it's us, like, sort of talking over each other, being like, so an unalloyed gold needle, is that anything? You don't think that would be... That would enhance the atmosphere of a press soft thing. I'm so excited for the listener mail we're going to get from people who are like, guys, it's obvious. This is how the needles work.

It's explained in this lower description on this one piece of armor. I genuinely, I honestly can't wait for those emails because I'm sure it's like, it's buried somewhere, and that's part of what's fun about the game. is just learning bizarre stuff and uncovering it all. Man, it really is. There's so much more to uncover. We're going to be talking about this game forever, which is exciting. But this was a lot of fun.

I was glad to finally go deep on the lore. I just want to play more Leldon. I'm glad you finally beat it, Maddie. Yeah. It's hard to go back to other games after you're finishing. It really is. It is. But we must soldier on.

But we must. Somehow we have to continue. We must. Somehow. We must play other video games. We must finish Secretan 2. It's true. We must. We do.

All right, well, this was super fun. Thanks so much to all of you listening for being maximum fun members for supporting our show. We really appreciate it. We hope you like this episode. It was fun to make. All you, Alden, lords, and ladies out there. Hell yeah. No longer made less.

All right. I'll see the two of you next time. See you next time. Bye. Man, what a great video game. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music, Our show art is by Tom DJ.

Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun podcast network. And if you're listening to this bonus episode, it means you're already a member. So thank you. We really appreciate your support. Find us on Twitter at Triple ClickPod. Send email to triple click at Maximumfund.org and find a link to our Discord in the show notes.

Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and Culture. Artist-owned. Audience-supported.