Triple Click - How To Play Games With Your Significant Other

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

What's it like to play games with your partner? Can video games strengthen a relationship... or will they just make it worse? This week, the Triple Click Gang talks about their own experiences playing games with their wives and other significant others over the years.One More Thing:Kirk: Dredge vs. Dave the DiverMaddy: Jaws (1975)Jason: My Perfect Console podcast w/ Simon ParkinLINKS:Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy Triple Click Merch: https://maxfunstore.com/search?q=triple+click&options%5Bprefix%5D=lastJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Okay, everything's ready. Two wine glasses, two chocolate-covered strawberries, and two PS5 controllers. Date Night. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games to you. This week, we talk about gaming as a couple, how to make it work, what games we like best, and all my horror stories of being too competitive to deal with it. Okay, I've gotten better. I promise. I'm Maddie Myers.

I'm Jason Schreier. And I'm Kirk Hamilton, and hello. Hello. It's us. How are you guys? Back around the bend again. The two of us. The three of us.

Three of us. Kirk forgot himself briefly. Is there one of us right now? No, that can't be right. Two? No, it's three. It's three again for triple click. Do we know how many of us there are?

You know, it's a good thing you said two of us, Kurt, because I'm sure the listeners are already looking at the episode title and they're thinking, hmm, just the two of us. Hit song. You and I. Hearing some Grover Washington Jr. in their ears. That's right. Or, you know, Will Smith, if you're me and you're a 90s kid, and that's the only version that you ever hear when people say just the two of us. Definitely Will Smith.

Yeah. The Willenium. We are in the millennium right now, and it's an exciting time. And it's almost as exciting as us being on the Maximum Fun Network, which is a co-op, by the way, a worker-owned co-op. And of artist-owned shows. I love that that's how they put it, because we own our show. And we do a little special something for anybody who dares to go to maximum fund.org

slash join and kick us a buck or two, become a member, five bucks a month. We get a monthly bonus episode from us. Triple-click, all three of us. We're all three there, not just one or two. No. Three of us, one of us. Should I try to describe the one we're going to do this month? Should we save it?

Is it too good? Just say the title. No, just say the title. I'll just say the title. The Hunt for Best October. What does that mean? I don't know. What could that possibly mean?

I don't know. You're going to tune in to find out. We are going to do an episode that is called that. But there are lots of other episodes that make a lot more sense. Like we did one about the legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom. We spilled the beans on that. We've done episodes about at the Horizon Games, Call of Duty Modern Warfare.

I don't know, all kinds of, all kinds of video games in the backlog. But sometimes we just do weird episodes about video game adjacent topics and media that we like and ourselves. So yeah, Maximumfund.org slash join is where you go in order to become a member, get those monthly bonuses and support our show and our wonderful network. All right. Let's get into it, shall we? Let's do it. A hot topic today.

A hot, a warm, romantic fireside. topic. The fire is crackling. We got a bottle of wine or sparkling cider, whatever you're into. We got some candles lit around the bathtub, baby. We are going to talk about gaming as a couple. A romantic couple. Or a thruple. Or a thruple. Or a polycule. Well, actually, if people want to hear that, they could listen to the extremely madcap episode that the three of us recorded of us playing a game called Debatable. If they think of the facts of fun.org slash join, you could hear us three playing a game, which is both competitive and cooperative.

That's true. That's the very first question that I have to pose to the two of you, not to stack the deck, but I have many anecdotes of attempting to game as a couple in a competitive format and it not working out. So at this point in my household, Dina knows we have a standing rule. We've never played a competitive game against each other. She's never had the opportunity to prove to me that we could handle it. I won't even give her the chance.

I'm collab only or cooperative only. But I want to hear from the two of you. Do you have a firm stance on gaming in a relationship? And are you willing to compete directly with your partner? Jason, I'll start with you because I already know that I've seen you play Super Smash Brothers with your wife in a non-team-based context. And I was very impressed that you two were willing to do that and didn't seem like you were at each other's throats. Yeah, that's true. That wasn't, that's funny. That smashes the game we whip out when we have like a bunch of people over sometimes that are like jackbox.

But actually when it's just the two of us, we've been more inclined towards cooperative games like, well, so we played a way out. That's the one I was thinking of. And then we played the quarry more recent. which isn't really cooperative as much as it's cinematic and you kind of play it together. And then, I don't know, you're not like teaming up in that. You're both controlling characters in the screen at the same time. And then I imagine we'll play the new Mario, Mario Wonder a little bit together. But actually, our kind of two favorite pastimes are one, playing parallel games. So we both are lying in our bed playing Zelda or whatever it is on our switches at the same time.

Or, and this is probably what we do most often. is we both start a New York Times crossword at the same time and compete to see who can beat it first. So that is competitive. That's the ultimate competitive game. That's the real. That's actually pretty cutthroat. Have you ever felt like it was getting a little too real? No.

See, what I learned about this is that I have brain problems. Yeah, I mean, we don't, well, it's not like, I mean, someone just wins. It's not like you can sabotage the other. I think competitive gaming with a couple is dangerous when you can like, actively interfere with your significant others' progress and like make it harder for them to win. And it's also a little, it's like, it's also dangerous when one of you knows a game much better than the other. Whereas the crossword is nice and safe because like, no, I mean, you're easily matched in theory. Yeah, yeah. Some people are better crosswords like in kind of an

abstract sense. And some people will just do them more. But both of us, I think, are pretty equal on that front. So I think it's a pretty, pretty fair game to play. And there are certainly ways that you could cheat at Crosswords, but I assume that you don't have any of those rules instituted at all, because it would be... Yeah, it would be obvious. I mean, we're both sitting there on our phones together, so it would be obvious if one of us was cheating. I think you would see out of the corner of each other's eyes, we might glimpse it. Yeah, I also think that even a collaborative game can become very difficult if one person is better than the other too. But I want to hear Kirk's thoughts before we delve into that. Kirk, do you ever play a competitive game with a significant

other? I'm thinking about how to start this. So let's talk about a way out a little bit more, I guess. Yeah, actually, yeah, let's describe it. That was a stressful experience, yeah. So I played a way out with Emily, my now wife at the time girlfriend. She's not a big gamer and in particular not super adept with the controller. So it was a reach for her to play a game like this one, which is a third person action game. You know, there's driving, there's shooting, there's taking cover, there's lots of QTEs that you have to do in time. And it's a pretty stressful story as well. So it's the story of two guys who don't really like one another who break out of prison together. This was made by the same studio that eventually made It Takes Two, which then won game of the year at the

Game Awards a couple years ago. And which, I I think the three of us have talked about playing because none of us played it. But I still haven't played it. And I would play it with Emily, but happen. And we kind of thought maybe we should each try to play it with our wives and see what happened. But that never happened. It's still good. You never know.

But continue. Also the maker of Brothers, which is their breakout game. Yes. Brothers is an interesting game in that it is a co-op game for one person where you control two characters at the same time. A really great game. It really hinges on one extremely brilliant idea that happens at the end. So similar to brothers actually, there's something that happens at the end of a way out that was really surprising to us. So I'm going to spoil that.

So let's just say if you really care about the ending of a way out and you haven't played it yet, just skip ahead a couple minutes. But this whole game, you play on the same side. There's this begrudging partnership between these two guys as they break out of prison and flee the law and get in with organized crime. And I don't even really remember the story. It's a lot of prison movie tropes. And then at the end, it turns out one of them is. I believe if I'm remembering this correctly, an FBI agent, and they are actually enemies, and they wind up having a shootout to the death.

So after the whole game where you've been working together, suddenly you're playing a basically Gears of War-type shooter against one another. So Emily and I, after making it through this whole game cooperatively, suddenly, it's just, I'm just going to straight up murder her because she doesn't really, you know, the shooting was her weakest, her weakest skill when it came to this game. Do you remember which of you was the FBI agent? I guess that's the least relevant part of the story, but it's funny to me. I'm trying to remember, actually.

I guess who cares? Either way, you're both trying to kill each other. Yeah, it turns into kind of a two-sided, just like cover shooter essentially. Yeah. It doesn't matter who's who. It's not like you got one more support. So I was the cop, I guess, in the end. Wow.

But I don't, I'm not totally sure about that. And you were the game. gamer cop. So you had secret knowledge of video games and being a cop. Well, the worst thing is that I didn't even know I was going to be a cop. So anyways, that was a sort of surprising, kind of a sour note actually for that game to end on because it had been really fun. And it was also this rare, you know, action, AAA style action game that I could play with Emily and kind of get her use of that kind of thing. And then it ended with me brutally murdering her. So sort of a sour note at the end of that game. I guess the moral of that story is that generally I do find that cooperative gaming is better than competitive.

Yeah, I haven't played a way out as evidenced by my gasping at that reveal. I'd always intended to, but I actually appreciate knowing that information because I had always wondered. It's a great twist in a way. It's very clever. Yeah, no, it's great. But I also really like the experience that Dean and I have had with Escape Academy, which Kirk, you also recommended. It's also a third person game, but it's a puzzle game, and you can kind of solve puzzles at your own pace. Dina usually gets motion sick from games that are first person of any kind.

So being able to play and move really slowly is helpful. So any first person shooter, I feel like she would just be like, this is making me want to throw up. Why are we doing this? So a way out is probably right out. But I really like the idea of us both playing a video game together. It's just hard to find games. that fit that bill. I also wanted to circle back to something about something Jason said,

which is something I've classified in my notes as games that involve cunning, which I included only tabletop games here, but there are certainly video games in this category as well. Risk and monopoly are the two that I picked, which I think people are very familiar with, but I also have a very strong memory of playing a game that was a knockoff of risk that came out in the 2000. called War on Terror. It was about the War on Terror.

And as part of the game, you could pass each other notes at any time. And that was a big part of the social engineering side. You could form alliances with people that were secret or overt. And there was randomized, I think oil is the resource there appropriately. And that's randomized as to which country has possession of it. So you don't know whether you're going to be a rich country or a poor country because it's not based on our actual planet where we live, even though the countries are the same shape. And I remember playing it with a significant other who was very cutthroat in how he played games generally. And this was an experience where I luckily was an extremely rich country. So at no point did he try to screw me over. But I was watching him systematically

screw over every other person we played with. And I think we won an alliance of some kind. But after that I was like, I never want to play this game with you again or any other competitive game because I feel like I've seen something about you that is scary but also not fun to me. And I don't know if that's... You can really, you can get at the truth of a relationship. You really can. And I don't know. That's not like, oh, that's the moment I knew it was over.

Like, that's not what I mean by it. It's, I do think there is an interesting phenomenon whereby sometimes people can be very good at games that involve cunning, even if they are not necessarily that good at that in real life. And I would describe this person is fairly kitten-like in their ordinary life, but quite cunning in their gaming life, which is enough for me to be like, I don't want to play a game against you if you're that person. And I'm not that way, but I also am competitive enough that I know I like to win. I know I like to really try to get better and be better at a game than other people. And I just, that combination of those two things, being better at something and being cunning and sneaky,

like within the rules. I'm not talking about cheating. There's just something about it that I don't, I don't know. Did you guys grow up in monopoly families? Dina did. So I feel like she was, she was like used to this. She was like, yeah, whatever. You hide the money under the board.

You do all this stuff. You've never heard of this. That's cheating. It's not in the Dina family home. No, we were more of a Baldur-Dash family. I guess we played a salary before that, but we liked. Balderdash's Gate. We liked Baldur-Dash's Gate, too, mostly.

And that was more of a creative, you know, word game where we would come up with, try to fool one another by coming up with clever words. That was just sort of a fun thing for the family. I don't know if I agree that. that I would be worried about seeing someone in an uncomfortable space where they're being manipulative or shady. Like, you could be dating a Ned Stark who then plays the Game of Thrones game and becomes Tyrion Lannister.

And they're still a Ned Stark, but they, you know, in the game, the game encourages you to be Tyrion, to be the spider, to have fun manipulating people. And I guess I could see your significant other having a little too much fun manipulating people, but also the game is kind of giving permission for that sort of thing. and encouraging everyone to do it.

And that game actually, the Game of Thrones tabletop game, is really one that I, that can end friendships, or at least can cause rifts between people because you can really screw one another over. Then again, playing that game with a group of people, one of whom you're in a relationship with, it just adds another social layer to the game where, you know, maybe you don't want to screw over

the person that you're in a relationship with, and so you actually go out of your way not to, you know, manipulate them and you manipulate other people and maybe even help them win. But then they could take advantage of that. They'd be like, oh. Right. Or you reveal afterward, like, I was trying to help you win. And that could even be kind of sweet. Or the opposite, if they're like, what the fuck, I wanted to win myself. I think it's interesting. Yeah. It's very patronizing. Yeah, exactly. I think I'm also very competitive like you, Maddie. And I think that, like, what's nice about games, especially board games, but really all video games, too, is that the stakes are so low that you really can, like, let your inner id take control and, and do some things or say some things or whatever that you wouldn't normally do in your real life.

I think a lot about poker, which has higher stakes than a board game and video games since most of the time you're playing for actual money. But still, I think if you're playing to win and you're kind of in that mindset of, like, okay, I'm actually. I'm playing this. Everyone here knows the stakes, knows the rules. We're all playing to win. Let's do this. You could really just like find ways to manipulate people. I mean, I've seen people at tables just like trying to get in people's heads in all sorts of ways and all sorts of like interesting and kind of ways in saying things they wouldn't normally say just because that's part of the game. And yeah, I do think that kind of like all bets are off. Like the rules are as long as a within the rules and within the boundaries of competitive play, I think that showing that Tyrion Lannister side can actually be cool. And it makes things more fun because if you're playing against other competitive people, you're all trying even harder to win. And I think that can also just like really be an interesting challenge to try to overcome if everybody's kind of like raising the bar even higher for one another. Yeah. And all role playing together in the same magic circle.

If everyone's kind of on the same page Like stakes, certainly involving money Can raise the stakes But also the stakes can just be raised by one person Like if the wrong person is in a game In any capacity If they just take it too seriously And get too worked up

They kind of become that person That no one wants to play with Because they take it so seriously That everyone gets stressed out And starts taking it seriously Yeah, it has to be the vibe of the table Mattie, you brought up role playing games I actually would feel the opposite way

of like a D&D because the point of a role-playing game is not to compete against each other. It's really to just have this communal storytelling experience. And I think if one person is being super competitive and like arguing over who gets the magic item and stuff like that, that's super not fun. I'm more referring to role-playing in the sense that Kirk is describing where you're playing. No, no, yeah. No, I know. I know. What you said just made me think of like role-playing games specifically.

But yes, I mean, Kirk, you're right. It's like it's all about the vibe and the mood of the table. if you're playing poker with your buddies for a $5 cash game, that's a very different set of competition and set of stakes than like if you're out in Atlantic City at the like $100 tables. Yeah. In role playing, like D&D style role playing, there's another type of competition that can rear its head as well, which is just competing to be the best role player, which can happen at tables where you're not like trying to do the most damage and get the best item, but you are trying to outdo one another. and that can also, I think, be stressful or fun, depending on the group. But to circle it back to sort of couples and pairing with your romantic partner, another type of competitive game that I think is pretty fun,

but that can also be stressful, is a team-based competitive game where you're cooperating with your partner, but you're playing against someone else. And that can either be... Or another couple even. Oh, sure. And then finding out which couple is the best at being a couple. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Well, so you can straight up play a game where, you know, like the dating game style, you're actually being quizzed on how well you know one another. Oh, yeah. And that can be very stressful because you can wind up with that horrible couple that remembers everything about one another and remembers their first date with photographic recall. It's funny that you described that as horrible. I thought you were going to go the other way and be like, that horrible couple that knows nothing about each other and it gets really uncomfortable in the room suddenly. No, because they're horrible because they make you feel terrible, even though you have. this deep love for your partner. Yeah, because you're like, I don't know what your favorite color is.

Yeah. The ones who don't know each other, that makes you feel better about yourself and your own relationship. So that's a good thing. Right. You need some kind of balance. Yeah. And this is why it's important to sandbag in the honeymooners game.

That's right. It's just polite at some point to act like you have forgotten some things, even if you do remember every single thing about your partner. Yeah, it's annoying. Calm down. Are you guys big Mario Party players, have you guys played a lot of? of Mario Party because that's... Not since college, but yeah, I was big on a van, for sure.

We had, back when I was living in the city, we had an N64 at our apartment with Mario Party 2, which is our game of choice. And we constantly had friends over playing that with us. And what's fun about that game, there are a lot of things that about it. But one thing that's relevant to this conversation about that game that's very fun is that at the end of each round, there's a mini game and the teams in that mini game are based set and like what tile you're on. So you could wind up either playing by yourself. It could either be like free for all or it could be two v two or one v three and it could be any permutation, any combination

of players depending on the round. And so you can wind up teaming up with your significant other or teaming up with a friend against your significant other. And what's fun is the variety of it. And so you don't have to feel the same sort of pressure of like, oh my God, it's just me and my and my partner here. What are we going to do? Like are we going to win or are we going to be able to play together? well. Instead, it's just this kind of rotating thing, which I think is a fun way to go about that. That is a good way to do it. I mean, one of the great appeals of the amazing race is watching these couples trapped in on a team for a very long period of time where they maybe realize after the first couple of countries that they've traveled through that they're a terrible

at this, they're a terrible fit for one another. And actually, maybe they're going to break up afterward. But of course, that's what makes it fun to watch. But I like the idea of cycling. So you never really know whose team you're going to be on. Again, I guess that's kind of a mechanism to lower the stakes. For sure. I mean, I think there's a reason why the couples game of charades is such a popular romantic comedy trope. I mean, it's famously in when Harry Met Sally, but it's in like a million other movies, too, that just quickly demonstrate which couples know each other really well based on how well they play charades of all games, like how well you draw a picture of something and your significant other can instantly know it.

Or like the great, I think you should leave sketch. Where is a guy? The celebrities. Only knows like obscure jazz musicians. His partner isn't familiar with any of them and he completely ruins the party. Although that's not charades. That's the like act out of celebrity. I can't.

It's called just celebrity. They're playing celebrities, which is actually us. I played celebrities with a group of friends here in Portland a lot before they betrayed us and moved away to the East Coast. So they're dead to us now. for a long time they lived here and we played celebrities all the time. And actually, yeah, that was a bit of a hazing ritual at times because the way you play celebrities is everybody writes down 10 celebrities on a piece of paper and you put them on a hat.

And then whoever's it has a certain amount of time to act them out. Or I guess first you can like give clues. Then the second round we would do charades. And then the third round we would do, you can only say one word. Because you've seen, you've gone through them twice. So you're supposed to like remember what they all are. Right. Those are, you know, what you just described is also the rule.

set of times up. So probably similar game. That must have been where that was borrowed from. So it was fun, but at the same time, it definitely did reveal who knew one another better and also who had been playing the game longer just because you got to kind of know, like someone would put Tim Riggins from Friday Night Lights in every single time. So you just knew at a certain point that like they would mind like catching a football and be like, oh, yes, Tim Riggins.

Right, just because if you've been doing the game a long time, you knew. But if someone was new, like, I don't know, when Emily and I were first dating, she would come to this group. She'd already be a little like, okay, I'm meeting Kirk's friends. Like, this is going to be cool. And then you're going to play something like celebrities. And she'd pull Tim Riggins out. And if she's me, she'd be like, I don't know who this is. I don't know what this name is.

Here's the god and football. And 10 years from now, Street. Good friends live in large in Texas. Right. And it's very much like that. I think you should leave that where it's like whatever. Zoot Scott Bobbins, you know, one of the greatest heart players in the 1930s. Terrible.

With Kirk, it could be actual jazz musicians. It could absolutely role play as that character. It weirdly, there were a lot of jazz musicians there, but it was more often that it would be obscure, like, NFL players that I didn't know. But something that would happen, usually at the end of the night, would be super charades, or sorry, super celebrities. Where they took every, they kept all of, like, they just had a giant bucket with every single celebrity. that had ever been entered in a game. And they would just draw off of the complete. And so it was just the weirdest crap that people had done forever,

which even further advantaged people who'd been doing it for a long time. That's fun. Like the hosts. So, okay, we've been talking a lot about the pressures and the negative aspects of this. I want to talk a little bit about some of the positive parts of gaming with the significant other. And so I will talk about a way out as well. So when my wife and I played that, we actually have. We went through our own kind of like Heroes Journey playing that game.

My own sort of like three-act story structure where we had like a big fight in the middle of it because like I don't even remember what it was about. It was probably that like I was just frustrated that she wasn't grasping something and I just like got angry or something like that. And I actually thought it was really cathartic because after we were fighting for a while, we put the game down and then we talked it through and we made up. And then we felt like we like came out of it stronger by the end of it almost kind of the opposite. story of the actual protagonist of a way out. Right. If you betrayed the other. But it isn't good.

I think that like for people listening who might be like, oh, God, like I just started dating someone. I'm terrified to play games with them. I actually think it can be really just kind of a good relationship building exercise in a lot of ways, even if you start seeing some negative aspects of you or your significant other come out because games just by nature are such a good way to kind of get better at something and that includes the kind of meta level emotions that you're feeling while playing the game. You can watch yourself level up while in the game while also just kind of like working on like,

oh, okay, I said something. I didn't like that I said that. I'm trying to recognize this characteristic of me that came out here that I don't really like. So let's work on that together. And it can actually be a really kind of helpful thing for a relationship to get stronger. Yeah, there's also the way that playing a game together can sort of allow you. you to lean into the strengths that you each bring to the relationship. This is something that Emily and I find when we play games together, particularly puzzle games where only one of us is controlling the game, usually me, and Emily's just helping me think things through. We played Return of the Oberdeen that way, and that was just a very wonderful experience for us. It was

the first time we'd really done that, and Emily just has a much better memory than I do. She just kind of has the ability to hold a lot of things in her mind at once. And that game is so about building this mental database of all the different crew members and who was where. And so I was kind of good at a different... Kirk's brain is full of holes. It just kind of comes out. My brain is just full.

It's full of jazz standards. I don't know. My brain can't hold anymore. But I do bring a strength to that game. And it's more of a kind of intuitive... Kirk, it's all about the memories you don't have. All about the things you don't remember. Believe me, that's truer and truer for me every single year.

I do think that I brought something to the game, though. It was like an intuitive way of thinking and also a kind of understanding of how games like this work a little bit. Like some of it was my gamer literacy and some of it was just the way that I think through problems and the way my imagination works, I guess. So I was kind of thinking in this one way. She's thinking in a very different way. And between the two of us, we built a really amazing kind of. of group database of the crew of this ship and really just assembled the whole thing. And it was an incredible experience from start to finish.

And actually, it was a better experience for us as a team than playing the case of the Golden Idol. We played that together as well, and it's fun. She can keep track of it. But there's something about that game. Maybe it's that there's more writing, there are more words, the way that you have to go through each clue and just scan them all. And then you start to like pull them together into a semblance of logic. like the process of the game is a little bit more rigid. I think that's what makes it more approachable.

But for us at least, as a duo, it's less, it doesn't work as well. Like, it doesn't allow us to use our strengths in that way, because I think maybe the game organizes things more for you. So actually, Oberdin was a better couple's experience for us, for that reason, because we could really lean into our strengths and work together. Yeah, games that require a lot of reading are terrible to play as a couple, I would say. So like big, meaty role-playing games or visual novels do not work. Puzzle games, I think, work well, anything multiplayer, obviously,

but also the cinematic games where, like, you can watch a story together. I remember my wife, I guess she was just my girlfriend when The Last of Us came out, but she watched me play like a good chunk of that game, and she really enjoyed herself because for a couple reasons, one because it's like a TV show, and then obviously eventually was a TV show. It was a pretty direct translation. But the other part of it that she enjoyed was that like she gets a little squeamish and like doesn't want to see like blood and guts and shooting and violence stuff that much. So when that stuff was on, she just didn't have to pay attention and she could just look away or whatever and not like look at her laptop and not have to worry about it.

And then I could be like, okay, we're getting to the next story point. You can you can pay attention now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've had a very similar experience to you, Kirk, in playing games with Dina. discovering how rewarding that can be. And it makes me kind of sad in some ways that I had so many

negative experiences before. But all those people are beatingless now and have crumbled into dust and don't exist anymore. They're not your wife. Yeah, exactly. I didn't marry any of them. So they don't matter. But I do think all those experiences led me to know myself well enough to know like, okay, Mattie, you're getting too competitive. You need to like stop away from this and stop being so freaking weird and also recognizing what kinds of games I really like that can be collaborative and what I bring to the table because I'm just as likely to beat myself up as I am to be better than the other person. Like I've experienced both halves of that where the other half of the couple is way better at a game than I am and I'm really annoyed and where they're way worse than I

am and I am also annoyed. Like either one of those is actually sucky as an experience for both parties. It's like just super not fun. But basically puzzle games along lines of Escape Academy, I put Diablo here because that is also like a pretty great equalizer in terms of just the kinds of characters you can play in control. And I know some people have also played stuff like Divinity and Baldr's Gate 3. We haven't played that yet, but I think maybe we could try because I have also learned that Dean and I bring

really different things to the table in a good way in terms of how we think about how a story should progress. She has way better engineering skills than I do and I'm better at word problems. So any puzzle that's like an environmental puzzle, she can look at it and be like, oh, we just pull this lever. And I'm like, I had no idea what was going on. There was water everywhere. And I was scared. And I didn't know what to do. And like that's really cool because it's a way to get to know your partner and actually feel like you're learning something new about them and seeing that you're on equal footing about something, as opposed to constantly thinking about all the things that you're not at parody with, like a game that has stats at the end, anything like that.

Even if it's cooperative, I tend to just focus on the stats and be like, are we the same? Are we better? I know this is unhealthy. This is the episode where I admit all my unhealthy tendencies. I think that that can be, that's a really important thing for co-op game designers to keep in mind, is that a result screen at the end that indicates who did better, who solve more puzzles, who obviously who killed more enemies or died fewer times. It can really take the

You know It can take the wind out of your sales This was something that Bungee used to do I think I guess sure I would think if it led to a divorce That maybe there were other things That also led to the divorce

But you never know No just the video game That's it This was something that Bungee I remember Bungee did I believe it was on the first cooperative Halo Game modes

I believe at the end you got a screen That showed you how well you did It was kind of a leaderboard There was still a leaderboard at the end. And at the time, I remember just being bummed by that. I wasn't playing with a significant other, but just that feeling of there's still some judgment at the end so I can still feel good or bad,

and I can compare myself to everyone else. Where, right, the thing that you're describing, Maddie, where you're bringing different strengths into the game can be really wonderful. I think Escape Academy to return to that game is very, very good at that. Emily and I had a great time playing that. So Escape Academy is a split-screen escape room simulator.

We've both talked about it on the show in the past. There's a whole bunch of different levels. It's really fun. And we played through the whole thing, I think. I think we played through the entire game. And it really does what good escape rooms do, which is it allows everyone to have their hero moment. And having gone to done actual escape rooms,

there are a lot of great escape rooms in Portland. And we've done some, Emily and I have with some friends. And I remember the best of them, really all of the ones that we've done, there's always a moment where everyone there gets to be like, Like, wait, I know what it is. Stop, stop, stop, shut up, shut up, listen, listen. And then they explain, you know, okay, well, it's that the clock is like pointed at this time. And it's the same time as the coordinates here.

And if we look, and then you're like, oh, you're right, you're right, you're right. And everyone gets to get so excited. And doing that just as a just the two of us playing Escape Academy, it's a really great experience. Just because, you know, I'm more fluent moving around with the controller, so I'm able to cover more ground. But that doesn't preclude her from helping with a lot of the puzzle solutions. even if it's like, okay, go quick, grab that, bring it down here because we need that and that's going to go into this book

because this book actually has the code to unlock the safe and, et cetera. And so, yeah, I think that that, like, the way that really smart, cooperative game designers can allow different types of thinking, I guess, is really important. And something that I would think escape room designers in particular must focus on and is probably like an interesting part of their design discipline.

Yeah, that reminds me of that game that got passed around Yeah, our board game. Yeah. Unlock. Oh yeah. Unlock. Yeah.

Yeah, which is kind of an escape room in the box type thing that sort of uses a screen. So it's kind of a video game. Video game slash board game. But yeah, that was a really good one as far as like giving multiple players that kind of deduction feeling of like, aha, that aha little insightful moment. And that was a really good one to play as a couple because it's just very, fun to just sit there with your significant other and like just go through all the cards together and go through then just do everything together. It's just really very well made for couples gaming night. Yeah and that game was particularly cool because we played through it with another couple

friends of ours and so it was two couples working together which is a little bit different than two couples playing against one another or whatever. Right and so it was it was still a little bit like we were learning a lot about one another and seeing how they reason through things with one another and then how we work as a quartet. But that was really fun and kind of bonding for all of us, even in how afterward Emily and I could talk about funny ways that the other couple interacted and how just how interesting they are as people. Because one of the really fun things to do with your significant other is talk about other people, like is to talk about other couples. Not in a bad way or anything to be like, wow, they were so stupid. But just to be like. Once again, it is about who's the best couple and who wins.

Sure, sometimes. But not always. And sometimes it's just like, it's fun afterward to start to talk about the social dynamics and the way that different people solve different things. And that's like another way to kind of feel closer as a couple because you can just talking about other couples gives you a better insight into your own relationship. Yeah, it does. So to change the topic slightly, I also wanted to just talk more about the idea of introducing

somebody to games because I think all three of us have had this experience and it's probably a really common one for our listeners because they listen to triple click. They don't need to be introduced to video games because they know already. But we have all had. And if they do, they should listen to like our first episode. I think our very first episode. Introduce people to games. So I'm very aware of how much it sucks to be the person who doesn't know how to play a game.

Even though I've been playing games for my entire life, I don't have that sensation of being like, oh, I don't know what a controller is. But I can imagine it. I can imagine how frustrating that is. So I really tried to enter into that with a lot of compassion because Dina only played the Sims and phone games when we first got together and now has a switch, plays stuff with a controller all the time,

uses the PS5 controller, despite initially being like, I don't understand why this is the TV remote and that being an early debate that we had. I wouldn't call it a fight. a debate we had about why my TV remote was a freaking video game controller. But now it's fine. She's extremely controller literate now. But I mean, not to brag, but I have dunked on myself a lot this episode.

So I think it's fair to say I have at least learned to be really understanding about how long it takes somebody to learn how to use a controller for starters. And also to really listen to what kinds of experiences they like and to let that play a role in what you're going to play together, as opposed to what I've done in past relationships, which has come in and be like, here's a game I really like. Let's play it with the two of us. And then it doesn't go well. And I'm like, but I love this game. Why did this go poorly? Oh, it's because I didn't think about what the other person likes and whether they would like the game. And if they don't, it's not going to go well. So I'm curious for you two's thoughts on this as people who've introduced

other people to video games in the past and the difficulties involved. Yeah, I mean, I think that the biggest obstacle that a lot of people are going to face if they've never really used a controller before is mastering both joysticks, both the camera and the walking at the same time. But once they get the hang of that, I think other things will follow pretty quickly, especially if they played a few games as a kid, which I think most people in their 30s, 40s, 20s have by this point. Yeah, I mean, I found.

I don't know, it's interesting. I found that just putting Zelda in front of my wife just got her. Another great utilizer. I think there's some games that just kind of cross boundaries and have become so universally appealing that a lot of people can play them even if they don't play a lot of games. I think Zelda, Breath of the Wild was one of those. Animal Crossing. Animal Crossing. That was going to be the next thing.

thing I said is Animal Crossing. And then I think once you get, like a lot of those Nintendo games are just so universally appealing. And then once you get your singing thing another hooked on a couple of those, then I think you can kind of get a better sense of like what they might want to play next, whether it's a puzzle game. And with my wife, I was like, okay, check out Return on the Oberdin, check out Ace Attorney, that sort of stuff.

Or if it's something, I don't know, a little bit more like cute graphics. and maybe they just want to play like another Mario game or Kirby game or something like that. Yeah. So I think that at that point, so I guess what I'm, what I would say is that there are a few games that can be the kind of like Rosetta Stone to video games. And then like from there, I think you want to get a little more specific and tailor to your partner's tastes. I kind of wish there were more games that had a two player, like a second player mode that was just a little helper character. like in Mario Galaxy or I know there are a few others that do this where basically your partner can pick up the controller and just sort of hang out in your game because sometimes, I mean some games just are single player games and especially if you play a lot of video games,

you know, you're just going to spend some time playing, I don't know, Starfield or something or cyberpunk and it's just a big single player game. And it's still fun to kind of be able to both share that and also have your significant other understand what it is that you're doing if you're going to just go do that for a while and kind of be on your own. So there's there's something there too where the more you can let your partner into the game that you're playing, whether it's actually participating via some fun way that they can sort of join in or even just giving you, you know, following along with a story, being like, no, you should totally like tell this person to go soak their head and like, go help that guy or

shoot that guy, you know, kind of contributing to the game can make, can make it just feel a little less like it's this thing that you're doing and you're going and doing on your own. I kind of wish that more games designed that into the game, though I understand. Obviously, that's like a kind of a niche thing to build into a game. And there are a lot of other things that game designers need to focus on. You know, like finishing the game, making it fun and all of that, which is obviously very important. It's just very nice when it does happen. It is nice.

Then making it fun. Getting it finished, then finding the fun. Question mark, question mark. Yeah, I do also think that even if you don't include that, there are other ways to make a game entertaining for the person who's just sitting by watching a lot of it. Like, I know Dina watched me play a lot of The Last of Us part two when I was reviewing it and like her thoughts on it, I'm sure, also informed my take on the queer themes of that game. And then for cyberpunk, we talked a lot about the voodoo boys and Mike Pondsmith and everything. and then we talked about that on our cyberpunk episode and having like a really story-heavy game

that's actually really entertaining to watch is a relatively novel phenomenon. Like when we were growing up, the joke was that you would never want to be sitting there watching your friend play Mario. You'd be waiting your turn and why would you get any enjoyment out of sitting on the couch watching someone? But you actually can have a pretty killer time

watching somebody play the Horizon games because a lot happens in those games. And you can contribute by being like, oh, what is that guy going to say? Oh, pick that dialogue option. Oh, maybe try to get with this person or make this decision. And that can be a collaborative experience that's pretty low lift for the second person who's walking in and out of the room. And that's kind of a newer thing for me, too. Like, I feel like even 10 years ago, I certainly would watch people play games, but it wasn't as entertaining as it can be now where games can include so many other.

where it's as though they're factoring in that your significant other roommates might be around being like, oh, shit, like what is going on now? Like, I remember that guy from before. And that is a pretty precious experience. Tears of the Kingdom also comes to mind as one that's very fun to watch, partly because it's so varied. You just never know what you're going to get. If you come in for five minutes of your significant other playing Tears of the Kingdom, it might be them building some ridiculous contraption to solve a puzzle, or it might be them watching part of a story. And if you were just watching someone play that game, there's just so much variety there. And it's all so interesting that if you're hanging out watching someone solve a Tears of

the Kingdom puzzle, that could be a very collaborative thing. Like, okay, no, try, you know, put the fan over there. Now, you've got to get it around. So you'll have to build a bridge here. So I guess the advice would always just be, build a really big bridge. That works on. That's always my advice to myself in my own head. I do that a lot. Definitely would be a fun game to watch. And that's, that's very true. All right. Well, I guess, I guess, I guess, game. as a couple is good. I'm glad we've all learned. We've all learned how to get over ourselves. And by we, I mean me, I'm very proud of myself for growing as a person and learning how to game as a couple. I'm proud of you too, Maddie. Thanks, everybody. I still don't want to play Monopoly with Dina's

family, though. I've seen them do it. I haven't picked up a piece. It gets really intense. I just don't think I'm up for it. But that's okay. Not everything is for everyone, right? Okay. Let's take a little break, and then we'll be back with one more thing. I'm Dan McCoy I'm Stuart Wellington I'm Elliot Kalen And together we are the Flop House

A long-running podcast on the Maximum Fun Network Where we watch a bad movie And then talk about it And because we're so long-running Maybe you haven't given us a chance I get it But you don't actually have to know anything About previous episodes to enjoy us

And I promise you that if you find our voices irritating we grow endearing over time Perhaps you listen to one of our old episodes And decided that we were dumb and immature Well we've been doing this a while now we have become smarter and more mature, and generally nicer to Dan. But we are only human, so no promises. Find the flop house on maximum fun.org or wherever you get podcasts.

Co-October continues in celebration of national co-op month. I'm Kevin Ferguson, senior producer and worker owner at Maximum Fun. I'm Marissa Flaxbart, producer, and I'm also a worker owner at MaxFund. This week is all about community. Of course we wouldn't be a co-op without the Max Fun community. And we love it whenever members of our audience get together. So we're having another Max Fun Meetup Day this Thursday, October 12th. And next week, we'll be hosting a panel discussion with other worker owners across the co-op community.

And we are still selling our limited edition launch crew merch available to all MaxFund members. But only through the end of the month. For more info on Meetup Day and everything Co-October, head to MaximumFund.org. slash co-O-O-O-O-P-T-O-E-R. Have a great week. And we are back. It's time for one more thing. Kirk, why don't you go first? Sure. My one more thing is a cheat with two games, but it's because they're very similar. Classic Kirk. And I've been playing them both and kind of comparing them and contrasting them. It's the 3D's Dredge and Dave the Diver. These are two games that came out This year, they're both about sub-aquatic adventures, and they're very different.

This isn't even kind of a cheat. This is just, I'm just going to say two games. They're both fishing games. Look, what I want is to give the people as many games as they can possibly get on a single episode of Triple Click. I just want everyone to hear about as many games as they can. And so I'm going to talk about these two aquatic games, because I've been playing them both. And I really like Dredge.

Really my one more thing is dredge because I've talked about Dave the Diver before. But having played both of them, they're actually really interestingly different. And, you know, I'm realizing why I prefer Dredge. So, Maddie, I know you're one more thing. Dredge was your one more thing earlier in the year. A while back. Yeah, really cool game. Yeah, kind of a hot indie game earlier in the year.

It's made by a New Zealand indie studio called Black Salt. And you drive a little ship around. You never see your guy. Drive a little ship around. You go fishing. It's super chill. right? How nice. But then it turns out the place you're fishing has

some really horrible stuff down in the depths and eventually you start pulling up horrifying Lovecraftian creatures from the bottom and going out further and further at night and losing your sanity and Lord knows what else. And it's a really, really cool game. I do recommend it to anyone who hasn't

played it. I've been playing it on Steam Deck also and it's fantastic on Steam Deck. I believe it's on Switch 2, right? I'm going to say that it's on Switch and if it's not on Switch, I'm going to Bing in and correct myself, but it must be on Switch, because it's such a good handheld game. And it's just really fun, and it's so, it's so relies on vibes. It's got great vibes. It has these kind of cursed vibes. It actually reminds me of Quest for Glory for Shadows of Darkness, where there's a bit of

a comedic element to this just cursed place where everyone seems a little bit mad. You're never really sure what's going on. It's clear, horrible things have been happening just out of sight to people all around these little villages, these towns that you're sort of cruising in between. And the main thing keeping me playing it is just I want to see what's going to happen next, what horrible thing I'm going to find. It's very good at building this sort of subtle dread without actually being too scary. So it's interesting contrasting it with Dave the Diver, which is a game that I had mentioned earlier and is also a game out this year with a strong indie aesthetic, though not actually

an indie game as it turns out. So Dave the Diver is a side-scrolling sort of retro graphics game where you spend half the game diving deeper and deeper into this procedurally generated depths and the other half running a sushi restaurant in a very sort of charming, you know, kind of overcooked style. Okay, get all the dishes out to the customers and pour tea for them and lots of mini games and stuff. It has a million mini games, a million different fish that you go and catch, lots of adventures. There's a whole story. And it kind of continually unfolds upon. on itself as you find new things to do and new mechanics and you're taking photos now and you're uncovering an ancient underwater civilization and it just gets really, really involved

in a way that's kind of surprising because it seems like it would be a kind of Stardue Valley style, pretty simple game, and it becomes very complex. Now it turns out that Mint Rocket is actually owned by Nexon, who are a massive game publisher. And so it's not actually the indie game that it looks like. You're playing it. You're like, oh, this is being by someone like concerned ape. No, it's made by a studio with like significant financial backing and that makes more sense when you play it. And I'm finding that I like it and I like the vibes. It's got really positive, happy, sunny vibes. But now that I'm kind of playing these two underwater games next to one another, I'm just realizing that I'm very drawn to the mysterious, bleak, dark humor, lovecraft vibes

of Dredge a little bit more. And I just, I guess I wanted to say that since last time I talked about Day the Diver. I was like, that's a really cool game and I really like it. I do really like it, but I'm just having a little bit of a hard time holding onto it. I think just because the vibes aren't quite what I'm looking for in an underwater game. Subnautica was like the other underwater game that I really loved. And that game also is like pretty scary and mysterious and dark. And I think that's what I want from a game about the ocean in the end. Or at least that's what Dredge is making me realize.

So I'm loving Dredge. I'm really excited to go back to it. It's a really good game. And I recommend it to anyone who has not yet played it. And Dave the Diver is fine too. It's very cute and fun. But Dredge, man. Yeah, I recommend dredge.

Maddie, if we let him get away with doing two games at once, like, what is next? He's going to come back. He's going to come back next week. All right, guys. Starfield versus Baldur's Gate versus... CyberFuel. Jedi Fallen Order versus CyberPon. Okay, what if I had made my one more thing underwater games?

That's one thing. I'll make my one more thing video games next week, and then I'll just go like five games at one. And neither of you can stop me. I had some tough competition for my. my one more thing this week. I like interface with a lot of cool things, but it doesn't matter. I picked the coolest one. And I'm going to go next because this is a perfect segue for how scary the undersea depths are. I watched the movie Jaws for the first time ever. Hell yeah. Very appropriate. Appropriate one more thing.

Very appropriate one more thing. The dredge of movies. Yeah, the dredge of movies. Not at all. because it's not supernatural, except it kind of is. Sharks don't behave anything like the Great White does in Jaws, which I did know going in. This is a weird phenomenon where I kind of felt like I had seen Jaws because I live in society, and I just kind of felt like I knew everything about it. And I did, but I also didn't because I didn't know the context

in which any of the most famous lines in the movie were going to be said. And I also realized about 75% of the way through that I didn't know who was going to die. And this movie's really stressful, if you don't know, who's going to die. It's actually really stressful the entire time, because children are constantly about to die in Jaws, and some of them even do. Yes, or they are actively dying.

This movie's freaking great. Everybody talks about Jaws because it's maybe the greatest movie ever made. And it's really good. Like, I don't know. restraint. I know they had to show restraint because the shark didn't work. And that was a big part of why filming was so terrible. The actors were all fighting with each other. There's apparently a play called The Shark is Broken. And anytime I try to Google information about Jaws, all I find is information about this play that was put on. Yeah, I think by Robert Shaw's son, I want to say. And it's like sort of a

recreation of behind the scenes of the making of Jaws. It sounds like a cool play. But regardless, Jaws the movie, freaking incredible. I'm extremely into it. it now. I've been thinking about it for weeks. I saw it weeks ago and I've just been thinking about it the whole time. I think I've said before Alien is one of my favorite movies and this feels like a really good counterpoint as like a horror movie that has a lot of practical effects and restraint. And that's why it's so freaking scary. People need to go back to making movies like this. I know everyone says that about Joss, but no one's doing it right. Okay, Jason, your turn. Well, and also, isn't it Is it John Williams who does the score for jobs or no?

Yeah. Yeah, it is, right? Yeah. And you know, people imitate that score a lot, but it's actually, it barely goes into that, da, da, da, da, da, it, they really underuse that as well. Like, there's only a few key moments when that happens. Like, I expected the score to just overtake the entire movie and just be there all the time.

Anytime there's a fan, there's going to be the da-da. It's not, it's not like that. They really hold back so much, which is why. It's so freaking scary because you're like, just give me the shark. Give me the shark. I'm freaking out. It's a beautiful score. It's a much more elaborate score than that motif that everyone knows.

There's a lot more going on. It's an incredible. If you ever just sit down with the soundtrack and listen to it, it's really, really good. Yeah. The acting. I mean, I know those guys hated each other and they were fighting the whole time. It really shows. They did it.

They nailed it. Yeah, it's a great movie. Yeah, so it's on Netflix now. Watch Jaws. Check it out. And there were no other Jaws movies, just the one. They never made a sequel. That's right.

Jason, what's your one more thing? My One More Thing is a podcast called My Perfect Console with Simon Parkin. Parko. I don't usually listen to video game podcasts because usually when I'm like in a mood, I'm like listening to a podcast at the gym or walking or something or in the car, I just kind of want to get away from most of my life, which is talking and thinking and writing about video games. No, I get you for sure.

So usually most of my podcasts are like sports. in pop culture or like other stuff, other tech areas and stuff. But once in a while I'll find a podcast that I really enjoy, and this is one of those, their gaming podcasts that I really enjoy, and this is one of those, because it is essentially a podcast for Simon Parkin is a great longtime journalist, someone who I've always looked up to, just interviewing people and asking them about their lives, which is just always interesting to listen to.

And I'm always a sucker for like good one-on-one interview podcasts. And so the premise of this podcast is that Simon brings on these guests and he asked them to name five games that would go into their perfect console. But really, that's kind of not even the point of the show. Like, the point of the show is just to ask someone about their life, their interesting, like, parts of their life. And he uses the games as kind of a, I don't know, framing mechanism to be like, okay, and why did this game mean somebody to you at that point? And also, I'm going to talk about your career path or your experiences or whatever it is. And he has really interesting guests come on. I've enjoyed a few recently.

There was one with Phil Fish, the kind of famous or infamous director of Fez, now reclusive, although he doesn't seem reclusive talking about his experience on the show. There was a great one with a friend of the show, Tom Bissell. There was a great episode with him. There is a yet-to-be-released episode with one member of Triple Click named Jason Shrier. Very exciting. I don't know when that's going to come out, but I recorded it a couple months ago, so hopefully soon. But yeah, I just really enjoyed it.

There was another great one with Greg Gassavon, or Kassavon, a member of the core team at Super Giant, The Makers of Hades. There's a great one with Eric Wolpaugh from Valve. There was a great one with just Jennifer Hale, the voice actor, recently. So just a lot of great guests that he gets on. And it's one of those podcasts where I'll just listen or skip an episode based on if I want to listen to that particular guest. And it's just really enjoyable. It's just really interesting hearing Simon ask about these people lives. In fact, I almost wish he would do away with the whole conceit because I don't really care about the video game talk.

And I just have no, I'm not actually that interested in hearing people be like, oh, and then I loved Shadow of the Coloss. process. That to me is so much less interesting. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I like hearing about people's lives and their experiences and like what makes them tick and how they're the kind of the windy paths that leads everyone on the career road they're on, especially people have done kind of like notable things or made things that people enjoy. And so yeah, that's the part I really I really like listening to. But yeah, it's a really cool podcast. Again, it's called My Perfect Console, was Simon Parkin, and I have really been enjoying it recently. Nice.

That's great. Sounds awesome. That does sound good. Yeah, Simon is delightful. Yeah, when, I'll link you guys when my episode goes up and you guys. Maybe in a few years, I don't know. Yeah, what I'm right? She's still perfecting the mix.

God, imagine recording a podcast in advance. Wouldn't that be nice? Have backlog episodes. I know, right? With months to spare? Well, it's, I was going to say, it's impressive that he has this backlog. a month. That's pretty cool. He's a pro. He's, he's on his game. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Not like us. We just do it on the fly every week. We recorded this five minutes before you

started listening to it. Seated of a pants over here. Seed of our pants. Middle of the night, we recorded this and then we just slapped it together. I am, I'm always very curious about how much lead time people do with their podcast. It is interesting. A sports podcast have to be right away, which is also interesting because it's like you listen and there's a bunch of like flubs and clearly needed to be edited better but they don't have time to edit it. Yeah, it's interesting.

Yeah, yeah. We edit everything perfectly and by we I mean Kirk. Yeah, by now I bet like the Jaws soundtrack is played like five different things all throughout the episode. All these pauses are gone. All the confidence for Kirk have just replaced the entire rest of the episode. That's like a whole show. There's a lot of AI generated Maddie and Jason just talking about how cool I am.

Just praising Kirk. Yep, yep, yep, yeah. Classic Triple Click app, did it again in the can. All right. I'll see you both next week then. Yeah, see you next week. See you next week. Bye.

Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the maximum. Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximumfun.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple clickpod. Send email the triple click at maximum fun.org and find a link to our discord in the show notes.

Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network of artists-owned shows. Supported directly by you.