Triple Click - The Switch 2 Is Finally Here

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Today, Nintendo released its first new console in eight years... and the Triple Click gang doesn't have it yet. But that won't stop Jason, Maddy, and Kirk from talking about the Switch 2, its launch lineup, and the imaginary promises that consoles bring. Plus: some Summer Games Fest hopes and predictions!One More Thing:Kirk: Hacks Season 4Maddy: Queens & Cowboys: A Straight Year on the Gay Rodeo (2014)Jason: The Doorman (Chris Pavone)LINKS:Kirk’s 2017 review of the Original Switch: https://kotaku.com/nintendo-switch-the-kotaku-review-1792776350“Young Deb When She Was Happy” by Carlos Rafael Rivera from Hacks, Season 1https://www.polygon.com/nintendo/602181/all-nintendo-console-launches-rankedTriple Click LIVE in Portland, July 11: https://albertarosetheatre.com/event/triple-click-live/alberta-rose-theatre/portland-oregon/Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy Triple Click Merch: https://maxfunstore.com/search?q=triple+click&options%5Bprefix%5D=lastJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

The Switch 2 isn't out yet. Well, it is out as you're listening, but it isn't out as I'm recording. So the Switch 2 both is and isn't out yet. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games and the consoles to you. It's Switch 2 launch week, which means it's time for us to talk one more time about Nintendo's latest new console and the hopes and dreams we have for what it might be. Stick around. I'm Kirk Hamilton. I'm Maddie Myers.

And I'm Jason Schreier. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hi there, my friends. Hello. You guys ready? It's an exciting week that we got.

It's a packed week. Did it need to be like this? Did it need to be like this? No. No, I think it didn't. No, it did not. No, it did not. But I will say, Maddie, that I actually was very happy when I saw that when the Switch 2

released it was announced because I'm going on a family vacation in a couple weeks. And I was like, please do not announce this console to me like smack in the middle of my family vacation. So that worked out nicely. Okay. So in a way, This is good that I'm going to have a stressful week. And Jason's going to have his version of a stressful week, too. I'm going to have a stressful week as well, for reasons unrelated to the yoga.

We're all just stressed out here at Triple Click, but you know it isn't stressful? The fact that all of you support our show. It's actually really reassuring. It's the opposite of stressful, knowing that you all have our back and that you support the creation of Triple Click. And if you would like to support this totally listener-supported show, you can go to Maximumfund.org. slash join and sign it to become a member of our worker-owned network maximum fun. You'll support a whole ton of shows that they make, including this one, and you will gain access to all kinds of bonus content, including monthly bonus episodes that we record.

The most recent one, of course, is about blueprints. It had to be about blueprints. It is a long and really fun conversation, but there are all sorts of bonus episodes and little extras there in the feed, and there will be in the future as well. This month we're going to talk about Andor, which I personally am very, very excited about. We have a number of cool Andor bits of content coming up for you all. But one of them is going to be a beans cast that we will record full spoilers for the bonus episode. So yeah, Maximumfund.org slash join.

That is the place to sign up to become a member. Last thing, if you haven't bought your ticket yet for our Portland live show on July 11th, well, what are you waiting for? You really should. It's going to be super fun. We're putting it all together. We've got the posters printed out. I'm finishing up the songs that I'm writing.

We've got a bunch of music that we're prepared to do. And, of course, a lot of video game business to discuss on stage. It's going to be super fun. So that show is at the Alberta Rose Theater on Friday, July 11th. At 8 o'clock p.m., you can pre-order tickets in a link in the show notes, and we really hope that you will, and we hope that we'll see you there, just because we don't do that many live shows, and they're really, really fun when we do. And I think this one is going to be something special.

So, yeah, get some tickets for that. July 11th, be there. All right. Well, yes, it is a big week. It's a big day today that you're all listening to this. So, Jason, why don't you take us into it? Yeah. So today is June 5th. We're recording this a few days before that, but June 5th is the day that the Switch 2 comes out. It's also, Summer Games Fest is also about to start. So that's exciting. Let's to talk about there. Today we're going to talk mostly about the Switch 2 and then we'll throw in a little bit extra spice of Summer Games Fest. talk maybe towards the end of this conversation. A sprinkling of Keeley. Just a little dash. A little. A sprinkling of Jeff. But really, really the Switch 2 is the big news here. It's, today's a new console launch. The Nintendo's first new console since the Switch won in 2017, eight years ago. And there is a whole lot to discuss about it. But unfortunately, none of us have gotten early units. So we don't actually have any. hands-on with the thing other than me. I played some of it. I got hands-on with it a couple of months ago,

but like we haven't been testing out the system. We haven't gotten a chance to review it or anything like that. So that will have to wait. Real hands-on impressions will have to wait. I printed out a switch too actually. I like printed it out on cardboard and cut it out and I've just been walking around with it. Yeah. That's been pretty cool. That's great. Not a 3D printer, just 2D on cardboard. How did you make the joycons like with the magnets with cardboard? Yeah. Did you put magnetic strips on the two pieces of paper? No, I just use my imagination. It's really an imagination powered console.

Should we use our imagination now to just be like, would Mario Carp be fun or not? Let's imagine. Let's think about it. It's actually a good segue. Because I feel like when you buy a console, you are buying the promise of imagination. A console is a wish of your heart makes. It really is. I've seen a lot of sentiment.

I've seen a lot of sentiment over the last couple of weeks, a pretty consistent. theme from people has been like, it doesn't feel like a new console is coming out next week. But like, if you remember previous console launches, all of them are underwhelming. And in fact, the reason that the Switch 1 didn't feel underwhelming is because it came with the new Zelda. We'll get to that in a second. But for the most part, console launches, PS5 launch, Xbox Series X launch, all of these console launches, it's kind of you're buying a promise of the future. You're buying something that will hopefully be an investment for years to come, that will be full of cool games that you can play on it.

And it's kind of you're buying imagination. But yeah, let me open it to you two. It is now, we're recording this on Monday, June 2nd. So we are three days away from the thing. By the time people listen to it, it will be out. How are you guys feeling about the Switch 2? Are you excited about it? And also, would you buy one if you didn't have to cover it for this show and our other jobs?

Maddie, how are you feeling about the Switch 2 launch? Well, I will say I can't quite relate to the idea that it doesn't feel like a new console launch is happening because of my job. I will attempt to answer the second half of your question shortly, but let me just first say that for me at least, this has been something that has involved many months of brainstorm meetings, planning across desks. Of course, some of those people don't work at Polygon anymore. And then that has kicked off one frenetic month of May planning and attempting to deal with the fact that I have a completely different staff of people now.

So yes, it really does feel like the switch two is about to come out because I've been staring down the barrel of this gun for a really long time. But I don't think anyone is in that position. It's perhaps a truly unique perspective. I think it is maybe just me. But if I can separate myself from that, which I, I'd love to do. I'm exiting my body right now and I'm flying into a different version of Maddie Myers who doesn't have this job and maybe doesn't even work in video games journalism for some reason. Would she be pre-ordering a switch too? I don't think she'd be a day one buyer,

but I think she'd be pretty close. And my citation for that is like myself in college and myself as a teenage girl and what I was interested in and some pretty bad consoles that I was still willing to get on the ground floor of. And maybe I, lo, these many years later, would have stopped doing that. But I don't think I would have because I know that College Maddie was a really big fan of the couch co-op game. And current Maddie still is too. And what is the launch title here but a Mario Kart world?

I mean, that is like a classic party game. I'm not exactly throwing amazing parties now like I did then. But I still think that in this. In this other world, I think I would still be pretty excited about Mario Kart world, even if I wasn't working in this industry. I mean, I know I'm excited the present Maddie is, but I'm imagining a version of her. $500. See, that's the tricky part. So I feel like what we're always going over with these console launches.

It depends what alternate Maddie's job is if she can afford it. What's her position? She works in a hedge fund. She's not sweating. She's kind of like a billions-esque figure. She's kind of like Bobby on that show. Does anybody like kind of want a hedge? hang out with alternate universe Maddie.

Yeah, maybe alternate universe Maddie should support Triple Clare. She's actually like on the ground floor. And the other person who's co-hosting Triple Click, that's not me, is like way better than I ever could be. And Maddie's a huge fan of her. Well, now that's impossible to imagine. Now you've punctured this fantasy entirely. No one is better than Maddie. Yeah, you're right.

That's ridiculous. That's impossible. I think I wouldn't be a day one buyer, but I think I'd be pretty early and I think I'd be pretty into Mario Kart. But that's me. I want to hear from YouTube. I don't know if you'd feel the same way, if you cast yourselves into your other bodies so that don't have triple-click.

Kirk, what about you? Well, I guess we'll start with that question, this counterfactual. I don't know that I would buy this at launch. I think that I probably wouldn't. I was reading back over my review of the original switch and my advice at the end of that review was wait, even though it was a very positive review.

And I really liked the switch and I saw its potential. Even with Zelda? And Zelda was great. Wow. Yeah, because, well, I assume some people had Wii use, and they could play Zelda on that if they really wanted to. And at the time, there just weren't that many games for it. We can link to that review.

It was pretty solid. It was 2017. It was the late era Kataku Kirk. And I think it was a pretty even-handed review that really kind of nailed all of the different aspects of the console. Because it was a very complex console. The central idea was clear, but there was a lot more to it. And there were a lot of hidden costs. There were all these accessories and things you had to buy.

that was a big part of it. Even though the Switch 1 was much cheaper than the Switch 2, it was still more expensive than it seemed, particularly when you factored games into that. So it's always kind of been an expensive proposition buying a new console, since you've got to get the console, maybe a controller or other accessory. If you want to play Mario Kart with people,

maybe you didn't have a Switch, and you want to have more controllers, and you've got to buy games or get the $500 bundle to get Mario Kart. And I think for me, that would probably be the barrier if I didn't write about games, if I didn't know it was likely that I would at least get codes for Switch games. You know, the idea of paying $600, $700 just to be able to play stuff on this console would hold me off. And I would have to imagine that if I was still into video games, even if I wasn't writing about them, I would have a Steam Deck. I would be playing so many indie games on that that it would also be a harder sell for me to consider getting a handheld that can play, okay, great, a lot of those same indie games.

and then some doubtless fantastic Nintendo games that are going to be very expensive. And so it's just a whole other console just for that. It is a very different landscape. And so I think I would view it differently than I did the Switch 1. It does feel like we've entered into this zone with the Switch 2

where, like, it is, gaming has become a hobby for, like, people with disposable income, for, like, people with six-figure salaries, people who are upper-middle class. Like, it doesn't really feel like it's quite as attainable if you are lower, income that it was in the past, the Switch 1 still exists, and that is a lot more, um,

attainable because it's a much cheaper system and because the games are much cheaper. But like, um, to your point about the hidden cost of the Switch 1, that is very much the case with this too, because not only, if you want to play Mario card, if you're a family of four and you get the $500 Mario Cumb bundle, you have to have two extra controllers for the rest of your family to play. And, uh, granted, that could be Switch 1 controller. So maybe you don't have to spend a bunch of money on them, but still, um, you have to spend, um, And if your kids, like, fight over who gets the pro controller, maybe you need, like, two pro controllers.

And maybe the pro controller gets broken as they fight. Right, exactly. They throw them in a fit of rage. Which I have seen happen. And then if you want to do the game chat streaming stuff, you need to buy the camera, which is not part of the system. It's another accessory. And then the games, Mario Kart World, on its own, outside of the bundle, is $80.

Donkey Kong Bonanza, which comes out in July, is $70. So not all of the games are going to be 80, but it's safe to say that, like, some of them will. If Mario Kart is, that means almost certainly the next, like, Tier A Nintendo game will be $80. So we're talking about a big, big investment. And this is pre-tariff, like, craziness. So who knows what's going to happen there? And who knows what the tariffs will happen? That's always in flux.

Well, that's what's saying. Yeah. Yeah. If, like, the price could go up at some point in the future. So it's definitely, it's a tough one. That said, I mean, pre-orders are selling out like crazy and everybody seems to want this thing. So that hasn't stifled demand, but it is tough. And I feel for people out there who like want one, but legitimately can't afford it because the barrier for entry is so high.

That said for me to kind of answer the hypothetical here, if I, to kind of isolate myself from my job a little bit, for me, for me, Mario Kart wouldn't be enough of a cell just for me, but the fact that I have two kids who are like getting, older and getting closer to gaming age makes it a lot more appealing to me. That said, I don't think I would try for launch. I think I might wait until the holiday after a couple more games are out as exciting as like Mario Carter like Donkey Kong and Delta Rune, which I guess I could just play on PC. But yeah, I can't imagine wanting to get one on launch necessarily if this wasn't my job, at least until Metroid comes out or like some other kind of. kind of like a game I'm way more interested in. That's like a single player experience.

And that had me thinking about the Switch 1 and how Zelda was really such a strong selling point for that thing, that it made it feel like an event because it wasn't just they were getting a new piece of plastic that will be your go-to console for the next few years. It was also you will spend the next month just like losing yourself to this masterpiece of a video game that is unlike any Zelda game and unlike most games you've ever played before. So that I think is one of the reasons the Switch 1 felt like also the knowledge. of it. It was much different than previous consoles. This feels like more and more of the same. But really, Zelda, I think, was the reason that the Switch 1 launch was just like, oh my God, the Switch 1 is here.

Yeah, I was, I mean, I'm probably most excited about playing Tears of the Kingdom on the Switch 2 and playing it a 60 phrase per second, which is funny. I've got a lot of stuff to clean up in that game. It would be pretty cool to play it on a more powerful system. Yeah, they should have held it a couple of years, like adding some more stuff. going to say, do you think, I mean, we all know the rumors that the Switch 2 was supposed to come out way before now and that the reason why it didn't was because of chips shortages, supply chain problems, COVID, list goes on, there were all these things that held it up. Is there, speaking of alternate realities, like, was there an alternate reality where Tears of the Kingdom was the Switch 2 launch title?

And this was just a huge system seller for them. I mean, that's obviously not the reality we're in, but that would have. felt like the correct way for this to go, doesn't it? But instead, we all already played it and we're kind of like, okay, well, here's the games that Nintendo has on its slate in 2025. But the thing is, Mario Card is a bigger system seller than Tears in the Kingdom? I think for us, for people in their like late 30s to 40s who like grew up with Zelda and loved Zelda to death. And also, I mean, don't get me wrong, Zelda like sells a billion copies also, but Mario Card is the next level. Like, it's, I think the newest Zelda has sold 25 million,

30 million copies, whereas Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has sold 75 million copies, something like that. That's true. So there's kind of like the gaming podcaster ideal launch slate, and that's like a bunch of cool single player games that we can chat about and have beans casts about. And then there's like the mainstream gaming family launch slate, and that's Mario Kart world. Exactly. Yeah, that's a good thing. That's like when we play Mario Kart, maybe there'll be a lot to talk about.

No, there's going to be huge beans cast. A ton of lore. Exactly. Yeah. So many secrets. Marty Cart World Bean's cast. Could you imagine? No, but like for people, and I mean, I empathize with the casuals, with the normies out there now that I'm, I have kids who like want to play games.

Although we did, we tried to play Mario Party a couple days ago and they got very upset. My son, who's almost three, is like getting upset every time Bowser appears and he starts crying and getting scared. And my daughter, who's almost six, gets, we talked about this the other day, gets annoyed every time she loses and gets really frustrated. So it's, it hasn't been Developmental milestones. It's funny that your son doesn't like Doug Bowser. Like, what's his problem with Doug Bowser? Doug Bowser seems like he's perfectly fine as a replacement.

He does. He does. He does. That's interesting. So yeah, I mean, my answer is I don't think I would buy it at launch. I think I would just wait until the holiday. But again, you're buying this potential, right? And presumably, this is not inside information. Please don't make reset era threads about this. But presumably there will be a direct at some point in the near future because it feels like we haven't. We don't know. When Metroid is coming out, we don't know what their big holiday

titles are. And so you are buying this thing for potential because you know all of Nintendo's games are going to be on it. And so it is in many ways a safer bet than, say, buying an Xbox series X was in November of 2020 when you potentially like wasted a bunch of money on something that like all of the games are going to be on other platforms too. So this is a safer bet than than pretty much any other console and that you know you're only going to be able to play the next Mario on here. You're only going to be able to play the next Zelda on here.

Yeah. Yeah, looking back at the Switch 1, you mentioned that Breath of the Wild was the big excitement generator for that console. I think that was true when we were reviewing it. I also think it was exciting just seeing what the console could do. I think that it's proof of concept, that basic idea where you drop it into the dock

and it pops up on the TV and then you're playing, it. That was really cool and kind of demonstrated itself. It proved itself immediately. The very first time you did it, it just worked exactly as it was supposed to. And then we had the experience of taking a game like Breath of the Wild on the go with us and being able to play it in these two different modes. And I think that did actually feel exciting. It felt exciting to me. It was something new. I just hadn't ever really done that before. Right. And in a way that was even different, than past Nintendo consoles, the Wii did things I'd never felt before, playing with motion controls, but I never really found it that exciting because it was always a little bit weird.

Wii sports was fun, but for the most part, I kind of just wanted a controller. But the Switch really was something that I wanted, that I didn't know I wanted, which is a rare kind of technological feat. That's something that Apple, for example, is very good at. The iPad is a good example of something where people saw it and they thought, what, the world, this is like a big phone who wants this. And then for a lot of people, they got an iPad and realized, oh, this middle device is actually very useful in it. There are a lot of different ways that I can use it.

So the Switch kind of felt like that, where its central idea was also exciting, in addition to that one killer launch game. Yeah, that's a good point. And just the sheer fact that this is an iterative console rather than an innovative console, I think that reduces the excitement for a lot of people, even though it was the smart move from Nintendo. And I think the three of us have been saying that for a long time now.

This is like the iPad OLED, where it's a better iPad, but it's still an iPad. So you already like this thing. Or it's like the Switch OLED. They made an OLED. Like there's literally an OLED. So I don't even know if we can say the OLED. Let's not confuse things because this switch do is not OLE. No.

It's not too LCD as it's no. The Switch 2 is in fact not an OLED at all. So let me say some statistics that I recently learned that I thought were really fascinating. So my colleague, Ali Welsh, did this analysis where he looked at the launches for every Nintendo console by sales only in the first four quarters. And the first two, so we're just talking about like the first four financial quarters. I'm not saying these are the most successful consoles of all time. We're just talking about the financials for those first four quarters.

And the top two were the Game Boy Advance and the 3DS, which is not what I would think. And again, I'm not talking. We don't need to get into the 3DS lineup and the fact, you know, what do people like and dislike about it? That's not what I'm talking about. But I do think it's interesting. that those are both consoles that are like iterative and we're kind of leveling up on a handheld device that people really, really enjoyed. And I mean, I also know from just Polygon traffic that our Game Boy Advance, like, Best Games list, which is an ancient list that we periodically update is like a super popular piece of content that we have.

Like, people are so obsessed with the Game Boy Advance. So I don't know what this says about the Switch 2, but the reason why All they put this together was, because at work we've all been like trying to read the tea leaves and be like, okay, sure, pre-orders are sold out, but like the Wii U sold out pre-orders, you know? Like, does that really mean that this is going to work? So I'm just, we're just grasping at straws here. The 3DS was an odd one because that actually started out so slowly that they had to slash the price of it after like five or six months. Which probably led to a huge holiday for it because it was so much cheaper.

And now consoles get more expensive several years after the movie. That's true. Yeah, and the games are more expensive too. But maybe that's not going to stay the case. Like, all of this stuff is in flux. I mean, Nintendo's just trying something. And then we're going to see what the finances are after the fact. But it is interesting to me that historically, people have liked, with the exception of the Wii U,

they've liked the idea of Nintendo kind of iterating on something they just did. And being like, here's the slightly better version of the thing. You still want it? Apparently so. At least initially. Yeah, sure. Although this is an interesting case because the Switch one is on track to be the best selling console of all time. True.

It's about to beat the PS2, I believe, this year. What do you compare to that? Yeah, so how do you surpass that? You can't. But even putting the finances aside and the revenue aside and the sales units aside, I want to just follow on something that Kirk said, which is that, yeah, like, In 2017, when the Switch came out, the idea of handheld gaming wasn't quite as prevalent as it was. I mean, we had dedicated handheld systems, but those were all games that are specifically made for handheld, as opposed to this idea that is pretty common now of having a system that plays console games except on the go.

So now we have the Switch, we have the Steam Deck, we have a PlayStation Portal. We have soon-to-be Xbox, like getting into the handheld games, stamping there and, like working with other partners. on all of the other team deck competitors, like all the other things. Sure. Yeah. It's a very, it's clear there's a market for that.

And it's only getting bigger. And the switch really started that, pioneered that. And I think for people who like enjoy gaming in bed or on the go, like if they travel a lot on the subway or if they've kids and they need to like play on a separate screen like while hanging out with their kids or something like that, there's a lot of appeal there. And now in 2025,

it's no longer quite as much of a cell. And so, like, for example, back in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2019, 2020, anytime in India came out, it was like, are you coming to Switch? We want to play this on the Go. Now there's a little bit less of a demand for that because of the Steam Deck. And so this idea of Eldon Ring being on the Switch 2, that would be incredibly exciting for me if I didn't already have Eldon Ring on my Steam deck and I wasn't able to already play it on the go.

That said, Steam Deck's kind of appeal to people. Steam Deck is a much more niche device. than the Switch. So I think that excitement that we felt back then that Kirk mentioned, I think still could be captured if there are a lot of people out there. And I don't know if there are, maybe there are, if there are a lot of people out there who haven't had the chance to play, like these third-party games that are coming to the Switch to on the go, games like Cyberpunk and Eldon Ring and Final Fantasy 7 remake and stuff like that. So for that demographic, there could be some level of excitement of like, holy crap, like games that look this good,

can also be portable. Yeah, but you also need to be somebody who knows that that's what you're getting from the Switch 2, but also is a person who didn't buy a Steam Deck. So you're in kind of like this specific subset of I'm aware of video game updates and capabilities. And I know that it's a big deal that Cyberpunk 2077 is on a Switch handheld device now. However, I didn't buy a Steam deck. However, I'm now very excited to buy a Switch 2.

I don't know. about who that person is. And on a related note, I think it's comical that the switch two box, like the actual design of the box, looks so similar to the switch one, even though it has a huge two on it, it still just visually looks really similar because it's like the red and white, the device looks really similar. Like, I'm far from the first person to point out the similarities in just how they look on the shelf.

So I'm already envisioning, like, I'm going back to the Wii U again. But how can I not? Like, there is this issue. Maddie, do you think a lot of people out there are getting their products by going to Target and looking at the shelves and be like, oh, I wonder what's out today? I think in a year or two, yeah, I think, like, you know, grandma buys a switch one by accident. I don't think that's impossible to fathom, is it? I mean, that's like the danger, right?

I mean, yeah, you return it. It's fine. It all works out. But, like, are there people that know? Grandma, even grandma is shopping online these days. I'm not ready to start a moral panic about it, but I can't imagine the viral video of the kid opening the box. Sure. And being like, oh, listen, let me explain.

Yeah, and then two days later, we find out that video was staged because this is actually. It was made by AI. Yeah, exactly. It was real. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it's like a significant issue or whatever and Nintendo needs to like redesign the box. I'm just kind of already in that zone of thinking who exactly is specifically thinking like, I know exactly what's on the Switch 2, but I'm also not the same person that wanted a Steam Deck.

But you're right, Jason. The Steam Deck numbers are low. I mean, it could be a couple of things. It could be, one could be like a simple matter of finances where it's like you have a very limited gaming budget every year and maybe you have a Switch, but you can't afford to buy a Steam Deck and then you decide to start saving up for the Switch 2. And then it's like, oh, okay, now I can finally play some of these games on the go. I don't know.

I mean, Eldon Ring is a game that I believe has sold something like 30 million copies, maybe a little bit less. I don't remember the exact number. But that means that people to this day are still buying it and checking it out for the first time. So there's like probably a lot of people out there who are going to buy it for the first time on Switch 2. I think we, the three of us, just by nature of our jobs and our podcast, we tend to get stuck in this idea of like, oh, if we haven't played, if we didn't play that within a month of it coming out, we're not going to check it out. Because we're always checking out the new stuff. But like, there are like, who maybe heard the name Eldon Ring, but just now.

bothered playing it or never had a chance to play it and will now do so because it's coming to the switch too. So I do think there is an audience for that. It's just not as exciting to people like us who are more kind of getting everything, like playing everything, like really hardcore into it. Yeah, and getting codes, yes, and not quite as limited by finances. It's not as exciting to us because we've already had a chance to play a lot of those games on the go. Yeah, that's interesting. I'm picturing my 14-year-old niece who is just getting to the age where I could see her getting into Eldon Rings. So there's also the switch player who might age up into something like Eldon. Which is a number of people.

You know, it's been seven years. And that's a big seven years. She was seven when the switch came out. That's true. You can like go all the way from seven to teenagerhood. Right. So there's that too. And even if you weren't going through, you know, a huge growth period in your development,

You could also just be seven years older and have decided that you want to try to play Eldon Ring. Can I run a thought I've had about consoles and games past the two of you? This is something I've been chewing on for a little while. It seems to me like in the last, I'd say maybe decades, so not exactly, you know, correspondent with the period of time from the release of the Switch one until now, but around that period. It seems to me that software and games have become more like platforms or maybe more like consoles. and as a result, it's sort of changed the way that I think about consoles. And I think that's just something interesting to think about and to bear in mind. We talk a lot now about a game like Fortnite or Roblox as being a platform.

People will use that word, oh, it's a game, but really it's more of a platform. And of course, that's also the word that we use to talk about consoles. Because it used to be a console, actually, we thought about it sort of similarly to the way that we think about a game as a service. It was, like we said, it's a wish your heart makes. you're buying into a promise when you buy a console, and you're assuming that the console maker is going to update it, they're going to add new games, they're probably going to update the software, maybe they have that subscription service or online service that gives you more and more stuff. The console is going to get better over time, it's going to be supported. It's not dissimilar from something like an MMO, where you start paying and you start playing and paying with your time and building up a character, and then you get new stuff, and it gets updates, and it kind of keeps being interesting for you. And it seems to me that over the last 10 years, games have actually become much more platform-like in that way that I just mentioned. Anyone who's played Fortnite or Roblox can picture that. And so it's kind of interesting that consoles feel somewhat diminished in a number of ways now.

And I think it can't be a coincidence that as that diminishment has happened, software has kind of taken on a more console-like role. Yeah, I think that's an interesting point, except when you invest in Fortnite, it's free. And when you invest in a console, it's $500. Well, one reason that a lot more people invest in Fortnite. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. No, I think that's an interesting point. And it's no coincidence that like one of the first games available on Switch 2 is going to be Fortnite. And part of that kind of like interconnectivity of platforms is that the games themselves like feel different when you get them on the, like, Fortnite will feel different on the Switch 2 than it did when it launched on the Switch 1 because that game has changed as well. Yeah. And I guess you do invest in Fortnite in the sense that you purchase a whole bunch of stuff that's connected to your account also. So like in that sense. you might be like, I actually am invested in the Fortnite platform as a person.

And I'm interested in it on maybe other places where it might be available as those places become more technologically capable. Like that could just be the way that you see the world. So instead of being like an Xbox fanboy or whatever, you're just a Fortnite one. No, your loyalty is to Fortnite. Especially when you consider the social, you know, aspect of Fortnite that a lot of your friends might play. I mean, the way that Jason and I played Destiny for years, we were primary. motivated because our friends played and that was where we saw our destiny friends. I'm sure for so many people, Fortnite is that way. And I do think it's more likely that they're loyal to Fortnite.

And while they're maybe happy to have a new system to play Fortnite on, are they $450 happy when they can just play it on their phone? Probably not, or at least a lot of people probably aren't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it'll be interesting to see. So we'll be talking more about the Switch to once we all have it in our hands. Yes, for sure. So let's talk about Summer Games Fest. Maddie and I are almost on our right to Los Angeles. Yeah, we'll be there by the time this episode airs. Well, no, I'll be there already, but this episode airs. You'll be on a plane.

And it's like not E3 time, which means that it's time for video game announcements and demos and interviews and all sorts of exciting stuff, although who knows how exciting it is these days in today's world. Should we still keep calling it not E3? I feel like this is the year we stopped. doing that. I'm finally not seeing it. When I'm talking to normal people and they ask like and I say oh I'm going to LA for

summer game says they've no idea what that is. Of course. Then I say but it used to be called E3 and then they know they've heard of that. It's funny because summer game fest is a much more descriptive title than E3. You would think they would know what summer game fest was. Well but I don't think summer games says penetrated the mainstream like it's not enough of a thing. I know. Because Keely's like keynote thing,

which we should talk about, like basically the way this is structured for people who aren't familiar is that on Friday there's going to be a Jeff Keely presentation. Basically the game awards, except without even any semblance of awards. So just,

just announcements and commercials and stuff. And then for media, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, there's a special campus in downtown Los Angeles where we'll get to go and do interviews and get our hands on stuff and play some games, some of which were announced at that thing. And then on Sunday, there's a special Xbox event where they're doing their own live stream and their own kind of hands-on things in

downtown L.A. Ubisoft did one last year. They're not doing one this year at all. And then, I don't know if any other, oh, I.O. Interactive, they just announced that James Bond thing, and they're doing their own little thing on Friday. A couple of other things here and there. You forgot to mention the most important SGF Hang of All, which is at the airport hill the airport hill and which is of course we'll all be hanging out um no mattie and i will be playing mario card in the jw that's right bring your own controllers we're only going to have so many as we just went over so you are going to need to bring you around how many do you think i i don't even know is like split screen limited to four because it's hilarious to imagine 24 split screen players

we might be getting a conference room i don't know we'll just be seeing what we can handle down there uh that's apparently happening at the j w not the airport hilton we may regret that we set this on the podcast. Important clarification though. Yeah, so yeah, so that's happening this weekend. And yeah, I mean, to the point, I think Summer Games Fest just hasn't penetrated the cultural consciousness because, like, nobody knows what it is.

It's not nearly as exciting as E3 was. E3, you would have CNN show up with cameras and be like, here, it's time for E3. Gamers are convening and blah, blah, blah, blah, because thousands of people were on this convention center. There's nothing equivalent to that here. It's just kind of Keeley making a few announcements and some of them are maybe exciting. I mean, I remember last year, is remember Kirk, we left early because it was so loud and unpleasant being in there.

It was mostly, yeah, volume issue. It was so loud. What was announced last year? I'm really just trying to remember. It was so boring. It was very, very dull from when I remember. I remember. There weren't really like announcements that were exciting, but I remember playing some games that I was excited.

Yeah, it's always fun to get there and play, especially like there's a big section with lots of indie games. I remember we played UFO 50 where we found for the first. We played metaphor. They had metaphor. Yeah. So I have some appointments, Maddie's appointment, some appointments to see some cool stuff.

Yeah, we can talk about that once we've done. And then maybe the Xbox thing, sometimes it's good for some surprises. A lot of stuff has been rumored or leaked out. Most notably and hilariously, the persona five, our persona four remake being announced by voice actors saying that they're not in it.

Just Yuri Lowenthal breaking that story. The best way to announce the game is voice actors saying they are not in it. They weren't in it, yeah. It was funny to see other voice actors after he like broke the seal just joining it and being like, by the way, I'm not in it either.

Which of course, Yuri Lowenthal was in Persona for Gold and he was originally in it. So him saying that the reason he would say I'm not in it is that he is not in the remake. And he described what, begging them to let him reprise his role and being refused. It was a pretty fun. Yeah, I was reading about this.

I hadn't realized that the P3 remake had as a new voice cast, but they did cast a lot of the original voice actors as smaller roles as a kind of non to them, which I just, I had no idea. It's kind of too bad they didn't do that. I guess they still could, although I don't know if they're going to call Yuri now. It seems kind of unlikely. I mean, unless this is all some sort of viral marketing tactic, which is Ethereum. Very clever.

Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, we're talking about it, aren't we? Yeah, yeah, they got us. It's probably going to come out pretty soon, I would imagine, and I will certainly play persona four. I have a persona 4 golden, like, third play-through or something going on Steam Deck. I played maybe 10 hours, and then I kind of stopped, but that's a good game, man. I'll play a remake of that.

Yeah, we'll talk about it more next week when the remake is announced, but like the idea of going back to randomly generated dungeons after persona-5 and metaphor both have these awesome, like, well-designed into the spoke dungeons. I wonder if a remake could do something to sort of make that a little less onerous. Maybe. I hope so. Do we have any other predictions of things that we think are going to be? Yeah, well, I was going to ask you guys. So the big thing that it feels to me like it's finally time to see is Silk Song. Because that game has just been.

Yeah, I mean, it just feels like it's time. Yeah, does it feel like it's time? I made a prediction as the beginning. Okay, so in January, I made a prediction not on the show, but I made a prediction at Bloomberg that like a GTA would slip, but Silk Song would make it. And I still feel like that is going to be the case. But like, who knows with them? They could just delay it another four years just for kicks. But that's my prediction that it'll be, I don't know if it'll be at the keylead thing or at Xbox or both.

But that's my prediction. Either way, that'd be cool. What about you guys? Anything you want to see there? I don't have a prediction, but I have kind of been wondering what's been going on with Halo just in general. Are they okay? I mean, I can't help but notice there's not. a lot coming out rumored from the Xbox presentation. We know it's

outer worlds too. They've said that. That's all out there, but like beyond that, I don't know what they're announcing really. And Halo's in such a weird spot right now. I just wonder how they're doing from time to time. How are the people who make... A lack of rumors often means that it's a pretty dull conference. I'm just warning you there. I'm not saying I'm hoping for it. I'm just saying I hope they're okay, you know? Psychologically. I also hope they're okay. My hearts are going out to them. The fact that we're talking about Silk Song, which still is an indie game made by a handful

of people, or, you know, I'm thinking about, it'd be cool to hear more about Hades, too. I don't know, I'm thinking about indie games that I'm sort of excited for. Oh, yeah, sure. Is that going to be released in 1.0 at some point? Yeah, at some point. I mean, they've been announcing a lot and releasing big updates for that. So it could well be that it's already, the roadmap for that is pretty well laid out. But I was just looking at it in my Steam library the other night thinking, oh, man, that's right. There's a whole Hades game that I haven't really played. That's sort of exciting. But that those are the things I'm excited about. It says something about how my tastes as a gamer have changed, but also just where we're at right now. I mean, yeah, like what is there to be excited about? If they announced some Gears of War thing at a Microsoft event, how excited am I really going to be about that? Or they show more, I suppose, of the Gears of War thing that they've already announced. Yeah, they did announce one. I feel like it does say a thing about Gears of War that they were like, let's just go back to a prolog about Marcus and Dom instead of, It's funny that I picked gears in war actually.

We're just, Gears 6, who we don't know her, just, we're just going to go all the way back to the beginning. Yeah, it definitely says something. A lot of hating on Gears of War. Hey, I played every single one and I'm going to play this one too. I always pick Gears of War

because I just think what is a console-y game that would be announced that I wouldn't be that excited about. I think I did this last year too. I just was like, oh yeah, maybe there will be a Gears of War. Because that's just where my brain goes when it thinks of that kind of a game. But think of it as a stand-in just for some big console thing.

Well, I took it serious. Sure. Yeah. The generic AAA game. No, Kirk, I take your point. I think that's, I would say that's less about your taste and mostly about where we're at,

like where the video game industry is at now. Yeah. Like you look at the top reviewed games of the year on Metacritic or whatever, and it's almost entirely like smaller stuff. Like double A stuff is just kind of like. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Double A slash indie, clear obscure, blueprints, split fiction are like the top reviewed games of the year,

just as an example. A couple of names to float by you guys in addition to Outer Worlds 2, which will definitely, so in addition to Xbox having like a showcase, there's also a direct afterwards or whatever they call it that's like a third-in-presentation about Outer Worlds 2 direct. Yeah, so that'll be a big blowout fall game. Looking forward to that actually, especially after Avowed. Really want to hear more about it. Yeah, yeah, we all really enjoyed Avowed.

And I didn't love Outer World's So it would be really cool to see them kind of build on that original game And make something that holds together a little better. Exactly. Yeah, just kind of build on some feedback that they must have gotten to that. A couple names I will also float for you guys. One is Mina the Hollower, the newest game from Yacht Club, the makers of Shovel Night.

And Mina the Holler, if you guys haven't seen it, you probably have at some point because it was announced a few years ago. But this is like a Game Boy-style game. It looks like top-down, like, links. Awakening or something like that for the Game Boy. But it also feels modern in the same way the shovel night did for an NES game. And it's like a top-down action game where you get items.

Oh, this looks sick. Dig underground and pop out and jump overholes and stuff. It looks really, really cool. I suspect we'll see more of that because on Jeff Keely's like big announcement thing, he included Yacht Club games as like a participating partner. So maybe we'll get a release date for that, see more of it. That'll be really cool. Another one that I think pretty under the radar.

Again, I have pretty low expectations for the Xbox thing. But one thing that we could see is the next game from In Exile, which is the makers of Wasteland 3. And they announced this game, Clockwork Revolution. Do you guys remember this at the last Xbox showcase? That can look pretty cool from what we saw. It's a talented team over there, very biochucky. But they're an RPG developer.

So it's kind of like, I'm sure it'll have a lot of RPG elements in it as well. So that could be an exciting one that we see. Polygon's headline says, in exile's new game isn't Bioshock Infinite 2. It's something else. That's a very clear headline there. In case you're wondering what it is, we told you. It's a different game. And then, yeah, maybe I'm sure a couple of moonshots out there that people might have.

We got our first look at Final Fantasy 7 rebirth of. one of these Keeley things a few years ago. So, I mean, I guess it's possible that part three could be announced. Probably too early. Yeah, maybe. Maybe a little too early for that. Do we know it's called reunion? Or is that so heavily rumored that it felt true when you said it just now?

Well, that's the crisis court. Yeah, crisis core. We've been over this. Yeah, they can. I just was wondering if they confirmed it. They already shot that bullet. They can do whatever they want. That's true.

They don't follow the rules, man. They're Maver. That's true. I mean, they could call it reunion over. 4 minus 2 divided by 45. Exactly. And that would be the perfect title that would perfectly explain everything that's happening in the game. That's actually Maddie's prediction.

They're actually going to call it Final Fantasy 7 Expedition 33. And yeah, I mean, I don't know, other cool stuff. Maybe we'll see a Nintendo thing. Maybe we'll see a PlayStation thing. There have been rumors about a god of war, like 2D spit off thing. So that would be cool to see. Do we feel like there's going to be other stuff throughout the month of June? Like last year I feel like we had a pretty solid like even though it wasn't E3 when you kind of took it zoomed out, Jason style.

If you zoomed out, you could kind of look at it and be like, there was sort of an E3 in the month of June if you kind of put all those things together, which they weren't side by side. This year, I don't know if the picture's as clear yet, but I could see it. may it be happening? Last year, PlayStation had a, their own, like, stream thing, whatever it's called, state of play, the week before summer games fast. Right, yeah.

For all we know, we're recording this on Monday. Like, there could already have been one. Yeah, maybe James surprise dropped one after we recorded this. It's not out of the rumored question. And the Nintendo could also have a direct. We don't know. I mean, we still need to know when Metro's coming out. I got to know when Metro's coming out.

Exactly. One of the nice things about E3 is that this is all planned out and telegraphed in advance. Yes, that was nice. And we knew when it was occurring. That was cool, as opposed to just logging into work one day and frantically being like, this is happening now. Yes. 2025, baby.

We do things now. We do it live. It is really, man, every year I just miss E3 more and more because like summer games fest, it's nice having this campus event where it's pretty quiet and you don't have to wait online and you don't have to like shovel through crowds to get to things and all your appointments are very close together, but the excitement of E3 was unparalleled. And I missed that a lot. But hey, if anyone else will be in L.A. for Summer Games, I will be at the not Airport Hilton, but the J.W. Lovie, pretty much every night. Yeah, come say hi. If you see me, if you see Maddie,

if you see us hanging out, playing Mario Kart, come say hi. All right, let's take a break. And then we'll be back with one more thing. After 400 episodes, the maximum film universe is kicking off a brand, new phase. We have got a brand new host, hilarious writer and comedian Kevin Avery. Hey, that's me. Kevin's teaming up with me, film critic Alonzo Duraldi. And me, producer and film festival programmer Drea Clark. Together, we're taking on summer blockbuster season by talking about some of the biggest movies in theaters. That makes this the perfect time to join the maximum film gang. Reserve your maximum film ticket. Pre-order your maximum film custom popcorn bucket. We're trying to say it's a great time to start listening to the podcast.

So jump back into the continuing adventures of Maximum Film every week on MaximumFond.org. Hey, do you have a favorite episode of Star Trek? If you do, you should also have a favorite Star Trek podcast. Greatest Trek is about all the new streaming Star Trek shows, and it's a great companion to The Greatest Generation, our hit show about Back Catalog Star Trek that you grew up with. It's a comedy podcast by two folks who used to be video producers,

so it's a serious mix of comedy and insight that fits right into the Maximum Fun network of shows. And Greatest Trek is one of the most popular Star Trek podcasts in the world. So if you're following Lower Decks, Prodigy, or Strange New Worlds, come hang out with us every Friday as we roast and review our favorite Star Trek shows. It's on maximum fun.org, YouTube or your podcatching app. And we are back. It's time for One More Thing. Kirk, start us off. My One More Thing is Hacks.

for the most recent season of HBO's HACS, a wonderful show that I have talked about on the show before starring Gene Smart and Hannah Einbender, Gene Smart playing Deborah Vance, a sort of Joan Rivers-type stand-up comedian who is old and set in her ways and incredibly famous and successful, but also you know, a little bit calcified. Yeah, and then Hannah Einbender as a young 20-something writer, Ava, who is a young, is hired to come on as a writer to kind of help her punch up her material. And that is in season one. And this show has become really just the story of an intergenerational friendship

and an intergenerational professional working relationship. Slash animosity. Yeah, slash like toxic codependence. Very complicated friendship for sure. I mean, Deborah Vance is a complicated lady. Ava, a little more of a run-of-the-mill person, but being friends with someone like Deborah Vance, would be, I think, an incredibly complicated and unique experience.

And clearly that is depicted in this show. So how's season four? Yeah. It's really good. Man, so every time they make a new season of this show, I have that sinking feeling, that nervous feeling when a fantastic show that ended really strong at the end of the previous season decides to do another one. You know, it's like the third encore and the second encore was way better than it had any right to be. and you don't know if the band has any hits left,

and then they come out again, and you're like, oh, God, is this going to get weird? Are we going to start wanting to go home? And yet they kind of keep bringing it. And they did it yet again in season four. That's awesome. A terrific season. Yeah.

And yeah, I would say I'm very curious where they're going to go with it next. It seems that because this show keeps getting award nominations and wins, it is really celebrated critically, and I believe watched by a fair number of people, that it has not been Zazlavd yet. It's the kind of show, this beloved, really interesting female-led comedy

with a lot of really great character writing that you can imagine just being cut off at the knees by someone like people like the people who run HBO. But so far, so good. So they keep making new seasons, and season four does end with a sort of setup for season five. Can I just interject here worth noting? Not the people who run HBO.

I think Casey Boy is the guy who runs HBO is the guy who's been there for 20 years. It's the people who run HBO's parent company. Worth noting. Good point. Though I can call it HBO now, because they've rebranded back to being HBO. They've undone back to HMO.

The worst rebrand, possibly in media history, where they dropped to the HBO. And all of the rest of us didn't. We just said, no, we're going to keep calling it. And then they finally admitted that we had ignored it. And they came back. They're like, okay, fine. You guys went.

So anyways, just really quick synopsis of the season. If you recall at the end of season three, Deborah finally gets late night. So she becomes essentially the host of the Tonight Show, which has been a lifelong dream of hers. She and Eva do it together, but then at the very end, she tries to fire Ava as her lead writer in a pretty, a pretty like harsh move, a really, you know, cruel betrayal and tries to cut Ava loose and then Ava blackmails her into forcing, you know, forcing her to keep her in the job. And then it ends with them just like absolutely at loggerheads. They have just betrayed one another and are ready to fight, which is pretty intense.

and the season begins there. And of course, it is the story of them working through that and the kind of catastrophe of their constant battling as they try to do something really unprecedented with the first woman to host late night and also all of these network pressures and this whole new world, whether they're in Los Angeles now. They've left Las Vegas. And they're just trying to compete on a much bigger stage with much higher stakes and a more corporate environment. So it's all great. It's just, it works again. It's a lot of the same kinds of beats as they, sort of find their way back to one another. And I will say I was kind of ready for them to be friends again. I think this may be the last time the show can really do the true war between the two of them, because we've done that several times. And this time, it's really intense, but also you're really watching the show because they love one another and you want to see them reconcile. I think that I don't really know what they're going to do in the next season, but I'm actually looking forward to them exploring some other aspects of their relationship. Is season five supposed to be the last one?

Like the next one is that going to be the last one? I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me. I mean, each of these seasons could be the last. They could have ended here. This would be fine. I think it, if you would feel a little unresolved, but they do a good job of setting something up. And yeah, I could see the next season being the last one. At some point, they'll have to end it.

And I do hope they go out on a high note. And I want to shout out just two things about the show that I love. First is Paul W. Downs, who is one of the writers and who plays Jimmy. He's amazing. Oh, it's actually three because Megan Stattler is her name. She plays Kayla. She is like, I think she's about to blow up. I think she has a show coming out that she's going to star in. She is one of the funniest and most ferocious comedians. Anyone who's watched the show knows what I'm talking about. She's just like an unstoppable force on screen and just one of the funniest people. And the two of them are just so much fun together. They're now partners at an agency

that they run together. And I just love both of them. And then the last show, shout out, and it's something that I don't see a lot of people talking about with the show, is the music actually is really great. It's composed by Carlos Rafael Rivera. He wrote the original themes, and David Stahl composed for later seasons. And it's this really subtle score. A lot of the show gets by on placement. They pick these wonderful pop songs, especially at the ends of episodes. A lot of times, an episode will end, and the credits will be playing, and I'll be holding up my phone to Shazam whatever song it is because it's some great song. But there's this little piano motif. Maybe I'll play it if I can find it online behind this. I know jazzy. It's this little,

if you've watched the show, you know what I'm talking about. It plays during moments of real sadness or emotion. And it's just this little jazzy piano lick. It's not the choice I would ever think to make. And I would think that 95% of composers wouldn't. And yet it's so perfect. And every time it plays, it just captures something nostalgic and sad and heartfelt. It's like perfect. So I love the music to the show too. So anyways, Hacks Season 4. great show, great season. Cool. I will watch this. I'm very excited. Yeah, me too. I'm glad to hear it's over.

I have to wait for hacks to be over. Yeah, I've been watching it all. You could just blast through the whole thing. Because season three was really good. Maddie, what's your one more thing? My one more thing is a documentary. It's Pride Month. So every streaming service is putting out documentaries like the one I'm about to describe, which is Queens and Cowboys a Straight Year on the Gay Rodeo. This is actually an older documentary. It's from 24. 14. I think we watched on Hulu. Don't quote me. But we just saw it got added and we were like,

oh, cool. And then partway through Dina was like, this is here because of Pride Month, right? And I was like, right, of course. Anyway, like the title says, it's about the gay rodeo, which is an association of people who do rodeo sports, who are queer, and a couple of them are straight. And throughout the entire documentary, everyone who participates in gay rodeo events, versus the other rodeo as the straight rodeo, which I just personally find really funny. Just as an aside, like they don't, it's a totally logical way to refer to the other rodeo. But yeah, also, because this documentary takes place in 2014, it's a sort of unwittingly a really fascinating historical document because even though that doesn't seem like it was that long ago,

if you watch this documentary, it feels like a trillion years ago because it's like gay marriage, wasn't actually legal everywhere yet. There's a lot of like moments of just explicit discrimination that happened to them where they try to get events booked and people just say no and are just like, we won't rent to a gay rodeo, just straight up. Wait, can I just pause for one second? Are you going to ask me where to rodeo? Yeah.

No, I know what a rodeo. Is a gay rodeo different than a rodeo? Like, how is it different? No. So, okay, so why would they have it is, I guess it begs the question, which seemed obvious to me, because of homophobia, because many, Because many of these rodeo riders, they're riding bucking broncos, they're doing all the rodeo events, all the identical rodeo events. Just in early rodeo days, straight men didn't want any gay guys to be at the rodeo. So if you were out at all, you couldn't be at the rodeo, just straight up.

And especially they didn't want women to ride. And so the gay rodeo also was like, will let women be riders. Many of those women, perhaps unshockingly, also, you know. are somewhere on the queer spectrum. Maybe not shocking that many of these are very butch women that want to get out there and ride the freaking Broncos and do extremely terrifying physical feats. So it makes sense then that like sort of in reaction to the straight rodeo,

this other sort of underground rodeo would emerge many decades ago and then it kind of became its own organization that is sort of like, I don't want to say it has a rivalry, but like the documentary kind of presents it as like almost a tragic other world to the straight rodeo, as it were, where it's like all these people who are like, we felt kind of boxed out of these events. Many of these are events that are taking,

held in the deep south or like small towns, areas where, you know, being a queer person just really isn't socially acceptable, but queer people are born everywhere. Like, that just happens. And some of them grow up in farms. And these are like the activities that they enjoy doing and they still want to do them,

even if they don't pass as straight or do, don't care to pass a straight. So like, yeah, long and short, that's why the gay rodeo exists. But there's certainly gay people in the straight rodeo, as they call it in this. And I'm sure nowadays that's different. But the gay rodeo, the actual activities they do are pretty, are the exact same are the same. They have a couple events that are just for the gay rodeo. Like they have rodeo clowns as well, but they also have drag performers along with rodeo clowns. And then they have one event that I remember is where they put panties on a goat, which from what I understand, understand the straight radio doesn't have a race where you try to put a pair of panties on a goat.

But like that sounds like a comedy event. But in the movie, they take it deadly seriously. Like they are. We are getting these panties on that goat. There's no smiles. They like are like we're getting them on that goat. And it is like there's the seconds ticking down. You're like rooting for certain performers anyway.

That also sounds like it could be a bachelorette event. It could be. I mean, I also want to make this documentary sound too fun though because like it's also really sad. A lot of the stories that the performers tell in it are them being like, I didn't get to ride or like participate in these events and was discriminated against growing up. And like, this was a place where I felt like I could just be considered normal essentially, which is also sad because I'm like, these are just rodeo events. But yeah, I don't know. It also made me wish that there was a rodeo event that we could attend in Massachusetts. But it's not a thing here.

It's really only a thing in certain parts of the country. And so it's like, like a really specific both historical snapshot and local snapshot of like these queer subcultures that frankly I knew nothing at all about. So if you're like me and you think that's interesting, I recommend it. It's called Queens and Cowboys. It's from 2014. And times have changed since then, but also have they? And I hope we don't go back to whatever this was.

That's my thought on that. I'm pretty sure there's a rodeo in Mohegan Sun, the casino. But is it a gay rodeo? No. But I could go to the straight radio. It's like a bull riding thing, I think. I remember, well, maybe this was another casino. I was at a casino. I have a very specific memory of being in a casino.

Might have been Mohican sun. And everybody around me was just wearing cowboy hats. And I was so confused until I found out that the rodeo was there. They're scary events. I mean, they're very dangerous. That's another thing about this documentary is that you're like, you're following a couple of specific like cowboys and cowgirls as they're competing in certain events.

So it's also like a classic sports movie where you're like rooting for them. And they don't all win. And some of them you're just like, why are you doing this? You've broken your collarbone like 600 times. I'm so concerned. Like, so there's there's also just like the tension of watching people partake in an extraordinarily dangerous sport because they're like, this is my thing. Is it cruel to the animals? Is that something they address at all in this?

No, the animals are fine. It's just that the people are kind of freaking die. The Brockians are having a good time out there, at least from what I can tell. to wear those panties. The goat's fine, okay? The other day I saw a guy wearing the hat that says this actually is my first rodeo and that is a pretty good hat. That's a good hat. That is funny. That's good. Cool. I will finish this off. My more more more thing is a book called The Doorman by Chris Pavone. It just came out and it is very appropriate because it tackles the exact same themes as your friends and neighbors that we were talking about last week. So it's very

enjoyable read. This is a book, it's kind of, it's a mix of like literary fiction and a thriller. Most of the thriller stuff happens in kind of the back, back like 25% of the book, but it kind of hangs over it. And it's set in this New York City luxury apartment building that is a lot like the Dakota, if you guys know the building that is perhaps the most infamous for being the building that John Lennon was shot outside of. And so there's like a little memorial for him right outside of the Dakota. I believe he was living in that building at the time. A lot of famous people like celebrities have lived there over the years and tourists sometimes gawk outside of it. It's right on Central Park. It's just a nice old-fashioned like New York City building. And so this is said in a

fictional version called The Bohemia. And there are three main characters. One is the doorman named Chicky Diaz. And the other two are tenants. One is kind of This guy in his 50s who is a little bit down on his luck, just found out that he has a heart condition, might die soon, is like a resident on kind of one of the bottom floors of the Dakota because they can afford to be there, but they can't afford to be at the very top. They're just kind of cracking it. And then the third protagonist is this woman named Emily, who is married to a bazillionaire and lives at the top and spends most of her time managing her household budget of $4 million per year. And the book follows their lives, the three lives and how they intersect and covers a lot of things. It's all, it all takes place over the course of a single day. And during that day, there is a giant protest because a black person has been shot by police in the city.

And so there's a big protest of Black Lives Matter people. And then at the same time, there's a counter protest by like paramilitary MAGA types. and so that tension is kind of like spilling over. At the same time, all of these three characters have their own kind of problems, and there's some kind of seedy underbelly stuff. Chicky Diaz, for example, the Dorman owes a lot of money to some bad people and has to deal with that. And it's really fascinating. It's a really good, just kind of propulsive book that handles the tension of this all really well

and just has some interesting satire and interesting things to say. Nothing you haven't seen before or heard before, but I always find the conversation, just like in your friends and neighbors, Kirk's one more thing from last week. I always find that conversation around wealth and who has it and what it means and what the different levels of it are. I always find that to be super fascinating. And so I really enjoyed reading this even from that perspective. Also, it's worth noting if you're considering this book that Emily's husband, this guy Witt, who's the billionaire who she's married to and she grows to loathe. He is possibly the worst person, like one of those villains that just like has zero redeemable

qualities and you just grow to hate so much. There's this one scene where they are at an art gallery and he just spends the entire time getting drunk and complaining that not enough white people are being honored at this art gallery event. So he's one of those types and it makes for a delicious read in men. anyways. I really enjoyed it. Once again, it's called The Dorman by Chris Pavone, and it's got a lot of just kind of interesting observations. I think that like there's some stuff in there like that I felt like I wasn't agreeing necessarily with the author, but I don't think that makes for a bad book.

Like even if an author happens to have different political views, maybe like more right-word political views that didn't make the book any more interesting to me or any less interesting or any less kind of fun for me to read. So I really enjoyed it. Nice. Cool. I finished Long Island compromise over the weekend. Oh, yes. Good book. Good ending. She really sticks the ending. So good. Oh, man. So good. Well, she does tell you at the very beginning. You want to hear a story with a terrible ending. That's true. She delivers on that. Yeah. Yeah. Good book. Yes. Phenomenal book. I'm thinking about rereading it. That was my favorite book of last year. All right. That is it for this week's episode.

Next week, we will actually have Switch 2s and we can maybe talk about them a little bit more. in depth. And we could be like, well, it is what you expected. It's a bigger, better switch. Pretty much listen to our episode from last week. We could have done just a fake review this week and just been like, yep, it's a, well, Kirk has one. He has that paper one.

He's just not giving us any impressions of it. It's a lot like my paper switch. Kirk has hopes, hopes and dreams and imagination. All right, guys, I will see. Well, Maddie, I'll see you in a couple of days in Los Angeles. Kirk, I'll see you next week. Yeah, have fun in L.A. and I'll see both of you next week.

Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration.

You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximumfun.org slash join.

Find us on Twitter at triple clickpods and email the triple click at maximum fun.org and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network of artists-owned shows. Supported directly by you.