Triple Click - They Remade Resident Evil 4

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

Resident Evil 4: it's remade! Kirk, Maddy, and Jason step into the shoes of himbo Leon Kennedy and take a trip to rural Spain to rescue the president's daughter in this remake of one of the most influential games ever made.One More Thing:Kirk: TárMaddy: Misericorde: Volume OneJason: The Legend of Heroes: Trails from ZeroLinks:Mike Mahardy on RE4’s lasting legacy: https://www.polygon.com/23660168/resident-evil-4-remake-the-last-of-us-pc-hboKim Stanley Robinson’s extremely great 2020 interview on Ezra Klein about The Ministry for the Future: https://www.vox.com/2020/11/30/21726563/kim-stanley-robinson-the-ezra-klein-show-climate-changeDan Kois on the final act of Tár: https://slate.com/culture/2022/12/tar-cate-blanchett-movie-ending-explained-analyzed.htmlTriple Click LIVE IN BROOKLYN, May 18th: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/triple-click-live-tickets-513213584647Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy Triple Click Merch: https://maxfunstore.com/search?q=triple+click&options%5Bprefix%5D=lastJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Now, I'm not saying it's a coincidence that E3 has been dead since Triple Click started, but ESA, you better watch out. Welcome to Triple Click where we bring the games to you. Today we are talking about Resident Evil 4, a new remake from Copcom, the Titans of Those Graphics, on Level 3. And every other level. I'm Jason Schreier. I'm Kirk Hamilton. And I'm Maddie Myers. It's us.

Hello. Hello, my friends. We're back again. for another episode. We did it. We survived Max Fun Drive. We thrived, you could even say. We survived and thrived in the Max Fun Drive.

A big shout out to everybody who supported the show during Max Fun Drive. We got a lot of new members and boosters and upgraders. And I hope you all enjoy the bonus stuff that you got, like the recipe book and that spice thing. And our stickers, of course, are chaming in the bit stickers. You guys have heard us talk a lot of. about this, so I will do a very abridged version, but just a reminder that we are a listener-supported podcast. Go to maximumfund.org slash join, support us, skip bonus episodes. We just put out an episode last week on The Last of Us, the HBO show. So if you want to listen to that, become a member,

and you will get it. Also, happy Passover to all of the other chosen ones out there. Celebrators of Passover. It's fun times. I hope you'll be. all had a good satyr. Yeah, some of us celebrate it without being chosen, Jason. That's true. Some of us are just engaged to one of the chosen people. But Maddie, I like to think you're also chosen, just being in proximity. It's true. I'm chosen by a chosen person. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, right. The transitive property of choosing, I think. Yeah, I mean, as chosen people, we can choose people to come along with us. It's true. It's true. It's true. Right. Isn't the chosen? That sounds like a destiny.

a destiny race or something. It does. It does. It almost has to be. Is there a character in destiny called The Chosen? There must be. There must be.

A raid boss named The Chosen. That must be a thing. Speaking of Chosen, we have chosen to play a video game this week. Kirk, what are we playing?

We're playing Resident Evil 4 remake. And I have a little bit of a preamble written out just to contextualize things. Thank goodness. Some people might not know where Resident Evil 4 is.

Resident Evil 4 originally came out in 2005 for the Nintendo GameCube, but it has since been ported to a ton of different systems, basically every other gaming system that's ever existed, including a terrific 2007 Wii port, and an actually equally terrific 2021 virtual reality port to the Oculus Quest 2, which I think of the only one that played, but is really, really, really good. It was developed by Capcom and directed by Shinji Makami. It is the story of Leon S. Kennedy.

They always designate his middle name. Yes. I don't know what it stands for. Probably Special Forces, all one word. Special Forces. One word. I like that. Leon Special Forces, Kennedy.

I think they do the middle name because that's what the Kennedy family did. Like John F. Kennedy. Okay, now I'm looking it up so we know. Kirk, continue your spiel. Interject when you learn. Scott. Scott. That was so easy to find out.

That's not as good as Special Forces. It's really good. Leon Scott Kennedy last seen escaping Raccoon City in the wake of the events of Resident Evil 2, he is now a government agent dispatched to rural Spain to rescue the president's daughter, Ashley Graham. Resident Evil 4 is notable as a departure from the series Horror Roots, or at least a partial departure. It's a shift more toward action, a trend that would continue with 2009's Resident Evil 5, and in particular 2012's Resident Evil 6, before the series again reinvented itself by returning to its horror roots with 2017's Resident Evil 7.

Over the same years, Resident Evil 4's influence continued to reverberate through the games industry and more and more single-player games borrowed from its formula, and that arguably is still true today. 18 years after it came out, it remains one of the most influential games of the modern era, and now it has been re-released in a more polished, somewhat more modern format as Resident Evil 4 remake. I guess they're just calling it Resident Evil 4 because they just want to confuse search engines forever. Yeah, lowercase our remake. It's not part of the title, not a Final Fantasy 7. in the title. Right. Right. And yeah, we've all been playing it. We've been playing games influenced by it for many, many years. And we're going to talk about it on this episode. So I'm curious what the two of you make of this remake, how much of it you've played. Maddie, how about you kick us off? Sure. So I played the original game multiple times, which maybe helps with this discussion, because I'm not as far in the new one as I'd like to be. I just got to El Gigante. If people remember that boss.

But if you don't, I'm on chapter four. He's a big boy. He's a big boy. Eventually, you run across like a huge axe leaning against something, and you're like, oh, what possible being could wield such a massive axe? You might think to yourself, well, El Gigante is going to show up just a little later. There's so much foreshadowing. Anyway, so I'm a few hours in.

I'm really enjoying it so far. There are a few differences that I've already noticed and some that I've read about. And I'm definitely curious what you make of them, Kirk, because I think you played the original as well. But so far I'm just kicking it, really liking the game, and appreciating that this is not a very scary video game, which we can also talk about. Dead Space remake, especially the remake,

was so much scarier than the original for me, that it was eventually a pretty rough hang. I never did beat it. But this one, it just looks amazing, but isn't really freaking me out that much. So I'm just having a delightful time. I'm just having a good time kicking some zombie butt and being a cool guy with a cool 2000s era emo boy haircut.

He does have a cool haircut. Jason, how much have you played? And what's your relationship with the original? Yeah, Maddie, I'm offended. You left me out because I finished the original.

Oh, did you? Oh, great. I thought this was your first time. But you're right. Of course. We've all played on the game. So I actually never finished the original. I'm the three of us.

Not to spoil my own thing. But go ahead, Jason. Yeah, and then I don't know. I found this remake to be a little bit of a tough. hang, not because it's a bad remake, just because I am personally not super interested in this type of game anymore, especially if I played it already. I kind of feel similarly to how I felt with the

Dead Space remake earlier this year where I just appreciated it, but I was just like, I just don't really have any desire to play through it. I don't know, something about it just didn't grip me. Maybe it's the kind of lack of interesting story or the lack of kind of interesting gameplay hook to keep me playing. But in general, when I play a game and I'm like, wow, this feels like every game I've ever played before, I just like don't really want to keep going. That said, I played a little bit, just a smidge in, I warned you, both of you before we recorded that, I was just, I only had time to play a little bit over the past couple of weeks. I played and got to Mr. Chainsaw Man and it brought back all sorts of horrible memories of getting to Mr. Chainsaw Man. Did you get him or

coming out. I ran. I ran as fast as Leon's like to take me. Both completely viable options. Which, yeah, very, this is a game that is deliberately kind of slow and chunky and makes you, makes you really have to think about every movement and wants you to survive and hoard your ammo and all that good stuff, which I remember enjoying quite a bit back in the day when I first played it. But yeah, I appreciate how beautiful it looks and how, how, like, how vividly they've remade. a game that has not aged quite as well as, like, this remake is pretty much the ideal way to play. But, yeah, I'm not sure how much more I'm going to play or anything like that. So I have played a little farther than you, Maddie. I'm up to where I've rescued Ashley and now we're kind of going through the, at the time, I think when it came out, infamous sort of co-op or not co-op, I guess it's an escort quest. An escort mission and it lasts the whole game.

Right, then the whole rest of the game. the game or at least a lot of it. I'd kind of forgotten that word because we don't really talk about escort missions anymore because games kind of stopped doing them. Or made them so inoffensive that people don't even think of them as a big trial anymore. Well, no, what happened was, yeah, the last of us in Bioshock Infinite both came out and both made the escort part invulnerable and that's what every game did after that. Or helpful. Like in Bioshock Infinite, Liz helps you a lot. She's constantly throwing you stuff. Like you really can't be annoyed that she's there. Ashley doesn't do much for you. And in the last of us, Elfittonement.

sometimes. And in the last of us too, yeah. But most importantly, they're not a nuisance because it's funny that both of those games, remember we were talking about some of the connections between both of those games. It's funny they both come out and then at the same time and both revolutionize escorts quest. Because yeah, I can't remember any game since then, to your point, Maddie, that does an escort quest and is like, here's a vulnerable person, usually a lady that you have to protect. Yeah. It's problematic for multiple reasons. Totally. And R.E4, I think, is one of the most famous examples of that trope in history. And, And was the comparison point when the Last of Us and Biococic infinite came out because in much the same way, you're sort of taking on a paternal role in Infinite and in The Last of Us.

And you're kind of doing a different version of that here as Leon because, like, yes, she's someone's daughter. She's underage, but she's got a crush on you. And I've always perceived Leon as being somewhat irritated by Ashley, but I guess it's open to interpretation. Well, and isn't she much more annoying as a character in the original? think that's also the cases that her character. Yes, and they've rewritten her. Yeah, which is interesting. And they've also rewritten Ada a bit, but we can get to that in a second.

Do you want to talk? Well, just kind of to zoom out a little bit there, I said it. Maddie, do you want to talk a little bit about just kind of like all of the differences? You've noticed for people who might have played the original or might not be familiar with what the remake has to offer. Sure. So they've actually rewritten a lot of it and added in a lot of dialogue.

So obviously I haven't finished it yet. So maybe I'll make more thoughts of one more thing at some future point because I probably will keep playing because it's fascinating. So one of the biggest things that's already become a meme is that Leon speaks Spanish now. So in the original game when he first walks into that cabin and perceives these mysterious villagers as a threat pretty immediately, he doesn't speak Spanish in the original game. And people always thought that was funny that he doesn't even try. And like there's all sorts of jokes about Leon instantly being the aggressive. in those moments. But in this game,

he's actually pretty trepidacious when he goes in and treats the villager who's very visibly like red-eyed and dead and swaying on his feet and like cooking human remains and some type of stew.

And Leon is like speaking Spanish to him and being like, sir, are you okay for like several minutes before you're like, Christ, Leon, draw your gun, fight off this freaking zombie man. I think that's how I felt. Also, he's escaped to Racken City.

A zombie game? Okay, he was a novice cop in the Raccoon City days, but like he's lived through one zombie apocalypse. Might he be thinking to himself, is this happening again? But it doesn't occur to him in that moment. He's a very caring and compassionate young man. So he speaks Spanish now. Also, his relationship with Luis is a little bit more fleshed out and with the handler

that he talks on the phone with. There's basically just more lines of dialogue. Ashley, perhaps famously, her ear. don't stick out anymore. She has like long hair over her awkward ears. I know people always talk about like the Bush era politics of this game and we can kind of get into that if y'all want to, but I always kind of saw Ashley Graham as like a Chelsea Clinton analog because she's so socially awkward and Chelsea Clinton was really like made fun of a lot in the Clinton years and like scrutinized quite a bit as well. So I at the time always kind of saw Ashley Graham as similar in terms

of like the public scrutiny she was facing and how young and awkward she was. No offense to Chelsea all, God knows any of us would have been young and awkward in that scenario. And Ada, by contrast, Ada is like the sex pot, like gorgeous, ridiculous red slit dress. Like every single line she says to Leon is super sexual. But in this version, she's actually a lot more buttoned up, literally in terms of her costume design. And also figuratively, like many of her sexual lines, like, I'll never kiss and tell, I think, has been cut entirely. There's a few others. and naturally,

gamers have reacted completely normally to this. And they're definitely not mad about it at all. I have a thoughtful discourse, I'm sure. To spell out what you just said. Capital G gamers have definitely reacted. Capital N normally. I should have specified that I'm not talking about the lowercase G games here. And they're capital D definitely.

Capital N not, capital M mad. They're feeling capital R relaxed about everything. There are some. Steam reviews that if you just want to have your brain fully fall out of your head, people have written negative reviews about the fact that Ashley Graham wears tights now so you can't look up her skirt throughout the entire game. There's like one very detailed review of like, here's every moment that you could look up her skirt in the original game and none of them are available in the new game. Wow. Woke. We got a boycott this. I could. I read this so now everyone has to hear about it because it's haunted me for days. But I got to admit I like these changes. These are things that when I played the original game, I was like, I don't love these elements of the game. Like, it'd be cool if Ada was a little more of a character. And like if Ashley Graham wasn't like humiliated by the game's camera or allowed to be humiliated in that way,

I don't feel like that's something Leon would do. So like I like these changes. And I think they make the game better. And for a lot of people, this is their first time playing it. So they don't even know the difference. And that's cool too, actually, I think. Yeah, staying on the sort of tonal and story stuff, since there are a lot of other changes, as well for like mechanical changes

or whatever. There's there is a kind of charming tonal weirdness to this game that I think still exists even though some some of the stuff that sounds like has been toned down. I should say I played I've played Resident Evil for a variety of times but I've never really gotten super

far. I think I've basically beaten the first few acts maybe on PC but I always kind of struggled with the standing in one place like the tank controls where you can't move all your aiming that just stresses me out so I never really got that far even though I could tell it was really good. So I am not super familiar with the changes that are made.

But there is this, it's interesting that Dead Space got remade so close to this one. Of course, because Dead Space is very influenced by Resident Evil 4. I think the developers even described what they were making is we want to make Resident Evil 4 in space. That's correct. And yet, playing Dead Space, especially Dead Space remake, it's so like a movie. It looks like a movie. The actors are all acting like kind of normal people. It's pretty believable.

Isaac is freaking out and screaming as he's stomping on necromorph guts. In this game, everyone is still pretty weird, and I like that. I think that it just sort of puts it in its own little space, even more so than Resident Evil 2 remake, which I really, really liked and played. I probably like still better than this remake, even though I haven't finished this one yet. But there's just, there's this funny tonal disconnect with the way that Leon reacts to the world as he's moving through it and to the events that are transpiring where he'll get on the radio with his handler and just she'll be like, where have you been?

He's like, oh, sorry, I had my head set off. I'm about to get the key to the church where, like, what just happened was that I fought a massive, like, sea monster in a lake and killed it and, like, fought through like 500 zombie villagers that are now morphing into it. So it's just very, very funny how he has this sort of total lack of affect when it comes to what's going on. And then also just he taunts. Like his voice lines are still very funny.

The taunts that he says when he kills people, he'll be like, oh, I'm sorry. I think I slipped or something after like roundhouse kicking a zombie into another one and like acing one through the head with his shotgun. It just has a very funny vibe that I actually am finding very endearing. It always has. I mean, I feel like you have played enough Resident Evil Games, both of you to know that that weird tone is always present. And it's something that I think we all really enjoy. It's kind of a translation thing, especially for the first game. But at this point, I think it's also just the specific sense of humor that this series has, where it's corny.

The characters are all archetypes. And that I don't think has changed, despite the fact that they've sanded off some of the sexism. They're all definitely still archetypes. And they all just feel like you're playing house with a bunch of dolls somehow. Like Leon's little sayings that he says. Like I don't know. There's just something about it. doesn't make any of them feel entirely human, but not in a bad way.

More just in like a B movie, like the actors looking off screen at the director for like their cue card as they're saying the line. Like there's just something slightly stilted about it that makes it extremely endearing and also less scary than Dead Space once again. Yeah, I don't know if you guys have gotten to, you guys haven't gotten to Ramon Zalazar yet. Oh, my God. They are made, they tried to make him a little less goofy in this version. Oh, they did.

Oh, okay. But he's still pretty goofy. What I remember from the original is him just being the most ridiculous boss-by. Yeah, this is like a screeching diminutive villain. Napoleon hat. White hair. Oh, sure. Okay.

I know. Yeah, he's a very small Napoleon little guy and he's a cult leader, I guess. I don't know. He's just one of my distinct memories of Resident Evil for us. Well, and there's the merchant, right? I mean, the merchant is a pretty ridiculous character who, like you're, there's an element of very similitude. to this game where it's pretty immersive. It's like you're in this village.

You're kind of making your way through it. There are times where it feels like it's really drawing you in. And then you see this sort of glowing purple torch. And there's this guy in a hood selling you rocket launchers. And then he has a sort of whole little shooting range set up in his base. There's a whole sequence of this game that I just completed that it becomes pretty open. Like it becomes almost an open world, like a little open world thing. I really liked that section of the game just because there's a lot of exploration and

optional treasures to find. But there's kind of this home base that's, it almost feels like a casino in the middle of this basically like rundown village, but somehow this guy is there. So there are these elements of it that I think have been present in other Resident Evil games too, where you just are like, okay, we're in a kind of different reality. We're on a different wavelength in terms of what's normal. And I think Leon's reactions to everything kind of underline that. Yeah, okay, sure, there's this guy here and he's got a shooting range, but whatever. I'm not going to mention that to HQ. Like, it's not a big deal. That's not. normal. Yeah, it's a video game. Like it's a game that's aware that it's a game. And in the sense that

it's impossible to even imagine Isaac Clark stumbling across like a gotcha machine or something and like putting in special coins that he collects in a game and winning trophies. Like that just would never fit into the world of Dead Space, which is so much more serious and grounded in a sci-fi reality. But this game and Resident Evil generally just isn't and never really can be, I don't think. It's not interested in that. It's funnier than that. Right. Well, There's something that the Metal Gear games do where they give you tutorials in World where a character will say to you, press the left button to aim and press the right stick to crouch. Like Snake, press the stuff and to get into your inventory, whatever. And it's people expressly talking to you about video game controls, which I don't think Resident Evil does, but it's that same kind of thing where the game it seems to be acknowledging its gaminess at various points.

I'm glad you brought up Metal Gear because I feel like there are a lot of common points between Metal Gear and. in Resident Evil. And in fact, it strikes me what you guys are talking about as just a very Japanese sensibility. It's something that you see in a lot of Japanese games where it's just kind of like this game plays by its own rules and you just have to kind of go for the ride. And I've always really enjoyed that about Japanese games. I mean, one that comes to mind immediately is like the Mario series where in Super Mario World, which I think is kind of the iconic example of this, there are just all these rules and you learn the rules and none of them make any sense. but they just exist.

Like the mushroom makes you big and the cape makes you or and the feather gives you a cape. But also like if you hit this block a certain way, it'll do this. But if you hit it another way, it'll do something else. And they're just kind of all these like established rules and take into a game like Resident Evil 4 or any of the Middle Gear or Resident Evil games. They're less cartoony, but they play by similar rule sets where they kind of, they make sense within their own world. Like, yes, of course, there's this merchant who. who pops up and is never really explained and it's just wearing a cloak and who

knows how he gets all his weapons but it'll sell him to you. Yeah, this game has a lot in common in particular with Metal Gear Solid 3 which came out a year before it in 2004. It feels similar, like the narrative set up feels very similar in MGS3 where Snake is sort of given a very brief

little briefing right at the beginning and then you're kind of in the thick of it and you're on a kind of recon rescue mission at the beginning. And even the way that, I mean in this game you're walking around you can eat animals to get more health. You're hunting snakes at one point. There are vipers that you're like shooting. So it does kind of have a lot of commonality.

That's true. And also, to take it one step further, there are rumblings that there's a Metal Gear Solid 3 remake coming. That would rule. Man, and that's actually another game from this area that I've started and played kind of a significant amount of, but never finished, even though I know everyone says it's so, so amazing.

Well, so that's the best game in terms of structure and story. And if that had Metal Gear Solid 5's gameplay, which hopefully this remake has, then it would be the best game for sure because five are the best gameplay. But anyway, so Maddie, you talking about the upskirts stuff, made me wonder, like, would a Metal Gear Solid 3 remake, like remove some of the kind of, like, what do you call it? Loot depictions of women, kind of camera upskirt shots. Ugling camera.

Yeah, abling cameras. I guess we'd have to ask Kajima that. Well, and also, Kojima probably wouldn't be involved. Well, Kajima wouldn't be involved. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, what am I saying?

We could ask to Juma, but it doesn't matter what he thinks. Yeah, it doesn't matter what he thinks. Well, he is, yeah. Man. Well, that'll be a can of worms that we'll get to whenever we get to it. Yeah, yeah, I just, it's not something we've been answer for.

It's just something that got me thinking. And it's funny that like, assuming this is real, which I think it is, the fact that we're getting a Resident Evil 4 remake, a Dead Space remake, and a Metal Gear Solid 3 remake, remake all within a couple of years. I mean, it's a different year, but the Metroid

Prime Remastered remake came from 2002. I mean, I just feel like it is the season for 2000s era games to come back around and be played by it for the first time by a lot of people who didn't know what they were like in their original form. It's really cool. I love to see it just from a game

preservation point of it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's something to that, like to the fact that the games of this era are still really fun if they're just tweaked a little bit. I mean, this game played pretty similarly to how I remember Resident Evil 4. Yes.

And it's a little like the aiming is different. You don't have the laser pointer. You know, there are just sort of like differences in the mechanics of it. But it's still both, I mean, the feel of playing it, that feeling where I don't know, that first encounter is a great example of the one that you're playing through Jason where

it really throws you to the deep end. I think it's one of the great intros to a game ever. Leon walks into this town. He's already dealt with a couple of zombies. you know things are going to be bad. You can kind of sneak up a little bit. But then pretty soon you get detected, and the villagers start chasing you, and then you realize you're kind of in this bowl with some buildings,

and you can run around the edges of the bowl which you can't get out, and you're overwhelmed by people. You have almost no ammunition. There's a shotgun in one building if you find it, but it's, you know, you basically have to keep moving, and then this chainsaw guy shows up, and he'll just totally kill you if he gets you. And it winds up being this extremely stressful time trial. You just have to outlast them.

I think you can kill the chainsong guy. But the first time around, you don't know that. Like, if you, the first time around, I didn't know. Yeah, you feel like you're supposed to just kind of like uprooted in place. And especially I remember the first time I ever played it when I was playing. And you can't move while attacking. So you're kind of like, okay, got to stand in one place. Then you're like, oh, wait a minute, I can't actually beat this.

Right. There are so many people. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, it's very, yeah. I agree with you that it's a very good way to set the tone for the game. although I will say that more of the game from what I remember is more actioning and less like running around. So yeah, almost none of it feels like that initial 30 to 45 minutes.

So in that sense, it's a great opening for the game, but it doesn't set the tone. Yeah, straight that. The entire rest of the tone is completely different. Which is like kind of okay because that's pretty stressful. And if the whole game were that stressful, I might find it too intense. Like I do like the general rhythm of exploration, some combat. But it is true that like that sequence, I mean, I think everyone just remembers that sequence because you almost always get killed by the chainsaw guy the first time you play it. The animation when Leon gets his head cut off or whatever by the chainsaw is so graphic and you're so freaked out.

And then, you know, you realize you have to go back and do it again and rest that again. And yeah, this game is kind of at its best when you're having to run away. And that might be how I feel about Resident Evil in general. It's weird because I find it really stressful. but also, like I'm thinking back on Resident Evil 2. And one of the reasons that I'm finding that game, so far at least, I feel like I liked that experience more, is because it's a lot of the sort of one building,

unlocking the building, you know, in the Metroid kind of thing, exploring, finding new keys, going back, backtracking. Like, you're in this big police station in Resident Evil 2 and you're just constantly there. And also, because it's structured with two protagonists, Leon and Claire, you get to go through it at different times and it's like you really see this one area in a really cool way. And this Resident Evil 4 is totally not doing that.

And I do kind of prefer that approach. But then also Resident Evil 2 breaks that up with Mr. X, with this other kind of game design idea that isn't really present here, except, you know, I mean, the chainsaw got kind of functions as a heavy that pushes you around and that you can technically kill, but you can't really. But they don't have a thing where there's like this procedurally intelligent, artificial intelligent, you know, monster that you can't stop, that just hunts you at various.

points. And I found that really stressful in Resident Evil too, but when I think back on it, it's such an integral part of the game and the whole experience of constantly being chased by him, then running into him as Leon, if you played as Claire, then finally at the end, you get to really fight him and you finally kill him and he like won't die and it's so satisfying. Like all of that is just really memorable in a way that I'm not quite finding anything in Resident Evil 4 at least not yet. Yeah, Resident Evil 4 I think is a very different type of game. It's more of an adventure, I think, than... the other Resident Evil games. It's more of a like, okay, I'm going on this journey from like,

like to this manner, to this lake, to this quarry thing. Like it's a lot more of just kind of exploring and going, moving, propelling yourself forward as opposed to kind of backtracking and exploring and maneuvering around one one big space. Yeah. And it was also notably less scary. I mean, I keep saying that, but it's because it's the criticism that people leveled against it at the time. Well, they're one in the same. Like an adventure just kind of inherent. And like tight spaces are a lot scarier than like going out into the wilderness and exploring. A dark mansion or dark police station. The lights are flickering.

You don't know what's around the next corner. Like when you're in that big village that we're talking about with the chainsaw man coming at you, it is daylight. You can see him coming. Like, yes, it's still stressful. But like almost every fight that you have in this game after that very first cabin that I described where Leon shows off his Spanish speaking skills is in an open area where you can see the zombies coming.

And like that makes such a huge difference for me in terms of scariness levels. There aren't the jump scares of like the, the, uh, dead space corridors. There aren't, there isn't the same level of just feeling like there's no way out that I always have when I play like the first resident evil where it's like, well,

it's all just this one house and I'm supposed to investigate it. Uh, I got to explore every room. Or are you sure I can't leave some of these closed on up? Because I don't think I don't like what. of a hearing. Like, that feeling, it just, it's not really in Resident Evil Four. There is one really good jump scare in the remake where right after the section we're talking about, the opening action sequence, these bells ring and then all the villagers just leave.

Yeah. And then, I believe this is an addition. You're just exploring and going through all the buildings to, you know, pick up all the loot that you left lying around because you were running so frantically. And a dude busts out of a cat with like a closet he's been hiding in. And it's just one of the zombies. But it's because you're totally, you were so kind of pumped up and then you're feeling this relief and then it's like this guy jumps out and it's like a very funny joke at anyone who played the original because if you play the original that doesn't happen so you're not expecting it at all and it's kind of the kind of jump scare you can only do in a remake where you can play on

people's expectations because they know it's coming but yes I agree with you that the level design in general is very empowering and allows you to move around and it's a completely different energy then especially that feeling of in the RE2 remake mr. X's feet on the ground when you're waiting in a safe room and you hear like boom boom as he stomps around and you're like I don't really know where he is you hear a door open you're like okay I think that was the door on this floor so I would try to go downstairs and you really don't know because it's not scripted you can't even read a walk through that tells you you know what to expect so yeah that doesn't really happen in this game and yeah Jason it's true it's just it's kind of a forward

adventure I mean there's the part on the lake where you're kind of going back to places you return to a lot of the areas you've been to before, but it just doesn't have that same feeling of a building that is, you know, one of those classic Resident Evil buildings with the locks everywhere and the statues that eventually open a door that's a shortcut that leads back around and the basement that you finally get to that's actually a whole underground lab or whatever else. It's just not really the same. Even though, I mean, it has a continuity. The space does have a continuity. You see the castle sitting there the whole game when you're on the lake. It has that kind of feeling actually like a Souls game as well where you're like doubling back and you're

realizing, oh, okay, that castle like I'm going to go there. Oh, that building over there that I saw earlier, the windmill that I could see. Oh, that's that windmill that I went to. Like, it does have that continuity. It just doesn't unlock in that metroity way. And you can also run away like in a Souls game, which I feel like is a pretty different sensation as well. And like you can kind of build up your resources in a different way. I mean, it's much more an adventure game. But I think that's also why people see Resident Evil 4 is so groundbreaking because at the time it was maybe the only Resident Evil game that you played if you didn't like scary games. This might have been the one that got you on the hook. But then also it was pretty influential on what an action shooter could be and how open it could be

because although I feel like, yes, it feels much more like an open world in this version. The original version I think had even more backtracking. I could be wrong. But this one, it's like I already kind of or everything is. So it just feels safe. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're right about that. I also think one of the aspects of it that I think was revolutionary at the time from

when I remember was a lot of the cinematic action stuff and the kind of like blendless, like seamless blending from action to cutscene and then the QTEs and stuff. A lot of that got really popular to the point where like everyone got sick of QTEs. Yeah. And I don't think Resident Evil 4 was of course not the first game to do QTEs by any means. But there's barely any. any in the remake, which is great, because I don't like them. Well, yes.

When it happened, I don't like them. But also, but in general, Resident Evil 4 was like one of those games where you're like, oh, man, this is doing some really cool new stuff with cinematography and the way that, like, cutscenes and action are blended together. Yeah, let's talk a little more about its legacy. Mike Mahardi wrote this article that we can link in show notes. It was just a kind of a nice rundown of all of the different games that have drawn from Resident Evil.

and it's kind of interesting to think about what they take and what they don't take. Like we were talking already about the idea of a usually male protagonist with a female ward who's like the young woman he has to protect. Like that definitely became a thing. And then you even see it in God of War, which I believe the developers of that were also talked some about Resident Evil for and the influence that that had on them, where, you know, Cretus is walking around with Atreus the whole time. And you kind of, it builds in a storytelling mechanism because in the downtime, the characters can be walking and having a conversation.

And you can get character development without having to do a cutscene or having to, you know, break things up. Which then you just see in, I mean, so many games, like open world games, Red Dead Redemption, every quest in Redded Redemption too, you're with some friend, you're with somebody. Like that idea of two characters having a conversation is now like so commonplace. but I don't know that it was in 2004, or 2005. Okay, so another 2004 game that we have all played is Half-Life-2, which I do think I should mention because Half-Life 2 is very similar to Resident Evil 4. There's actually almost no backtracking in Half-Life 2, but it has that same kind of rhythm where you feel them turning the levers

and, okay, now we're going to be, you know, we're going to solve a puzzle here, but oh, surprise, it's actually going to be an action sequence, and now it's going to really be an action sequence. We're cranking up the pressure. You've got to move, move, move, move. And then it's like, oh, we're going to explore a little bit. Things are going to calm down. And that was just one year before.

But you play as a silent protagonist and all of your sequences, even where you're hanging out with Alex Vance, she's talking, but she're not. And you're not even getting that same dynamic that you get with Leon and Ashley. And then, of course, with whatever, Joel and Ellie and Booker and Booker, whoever else, yeah. Yeah. That part is an interesting parallel I didn't even really think about. But it's true. Like, there is a lot of storytelling that can kind of happen on the go. And I also remember I always really liked the idea that Ada was on her own mission that you don't know anything about, which my only other comparison point I can think of is Ocarina of Time, like Zelda's situation in that game.

Ada kind of reminds me of that in this one. And I feel like now it's so common that it doesn't even stand out anymore. But at the time, I thought it was so cool that there would be these characters that you'd run into. And Luis is a little bit like this too. and you don't put together what they're up to until much later. I mean, yes, the mystery could certainly be more riveting than it is. Is it really any big surprise that the umbrella corporation is involved in something in a Resident Evil game? Not really, but nonetheless, I still liked the idea of like, oh, you never know when this character is going to show up and advance some part of the story.

And they have their own motivations. And to have that storytelling device on top of the just relaxed conversations between you and Ashley was, or just, just a cool technique that I think a lot of other games probably took inspiration from too. Yeah, Ada is in Resident Evil 2 remake as well and is a highlight in that game too. And it's the same idea, it's the same feeling where it's just kind of cool that this secret agent lady turns up. You play as her a little bit, just long enough to kind of get a sense of her as a very different character.

And her relationship with Leon is kind of established in that game. And I glimpsed her in, I guess it was in a Luis scene maybe, in the, and the, and the remake, but I haven't gotten to her yet, where I know she and Leon cross paths again. And then I think what she becomes playable in later games, I can't ever, I can never remember. There's a DLC that is heavily rumored to be made as a remake version. I mean, it was a DLC for the original game about Leon and Ada that is now rumored to be something that they would make in remake form, which would be cool to see. But I mean, you know, there's other games with Ada and them, too. It's not like, there's only like six people in the Resident Evil Universe.

They all know each other for some reason. Yeah, do you think they're going to keep remaking Resident Evil games? I don't know, because Five is not a game anyone wants to see them try to remake. Well, I've seen people say that they want that. Like, you know, there's endless forum threads. Talking about some stuff they got to fix. I mean, I... Well, right.

They would need to do some rewrites, probably. It is often maligned. I mean, not just, you know, people have talked about how racist the premise of it is. And I mean, I also didn't really like it at the time because I just thought it was really boring. It's like the worst impulses of R.E.4 because it's just purely zombie cleanup duty and the idea of... What's the premise? Remind us what the premise is of it? It's like, okay, what if umbrella corporation experimented on people who live in an unnamed part of sub-Saharan Africa? And then also that experiment led them to suddenly start wearing grass skirts, whereas otherwise prior to the experiment, they...

weren't wearing any of those outfits and they become quote unquote savage suddenly and that's all the enemies that you have to fight it's it's a rough go i i don't know how you fix that one because it's and it's not scary like that is not a scary premise to me it's just an upsetting one in the sense that racism is scary but uh other than that yeah it picks up a lot of a lot of the same idea i mean it's a lot like resident evil four it just puts it in a much more charged and clearly racist setting. Where it kind of implies like, oh, these black characters would inherently devolve into this inhuman version of themselves and would have this weird baked in memory of wanting

to wear grass skirts. I mean, the implications are numerous and unsavory. Not great. And it's a co-op game, which is also unusual. So the whole game can be played by two people, which was also divisive at the time. And it's really interesting, the way that Dead Space mirrored the trajectory. of Resident Evil where basically Dead Space One, they describe it as like Resident Evil 4, but it actually does feel like Resident Evil 2 remake.

It's more horrory, it's more scary. Then Dead Space 2 is kind of more like Resident Evil 4. It's the aliens to Dead Space 1's alien. Less scary, more action. Right. And then they did a co-op one that everyone hated, which is kind of true of Resident Evil 52. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

It's been interesting to see what might be the end of the road for these remakes with Resident Evil 4. because it's the one that needed a remake the least, just in terms of the gameplay, it feels the most modern. And especially considering how Resident Evil 2 remake and Resident Evil 3 remake, I mean, those games look completely different. Like they're not even over-the-shoulder action games, so they're remade to be totally different,

and kind of like Resident Evil 4 originally was. So it's an interesting question. Just either, like, both that they, would they want to tackle the premise and all of that with Resident Evil 5, the co-op nature of it, You can't just remake the game without making it a co-op game again. And I'd be really surprised if they did that because at the time, what was it, 2009? Is that right? Yeah, 2009.

That was like when Army of 2 had come out. Like it was when there was this kind of push. Well, of course, Gears of War. Halo. We didn't mention it, but one of them very influenced by Resident Evil 4 series is Gears of War, which also was playable in co-op. So that era was very like, okay, we're going to get our Xbox 360s and we're going to play split-screen co-op. And that's just not really a thing anymore. So that's also an open question of like, what would they even do?

But it seems like they want to unite this part of Resident Evil with the modern, the new games that they're making. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of people suggest that maybe they would remake Resident Evil One or Code Veronica and just sort of fill out some of the other Resident Evil stories that haven't been made into over-the-shoulder action shooters in the same way. And I think that might be a better direction to go because those games are a lot more beloved than Resident Evil 5 or 6, which we haven't really gotten to. I haven't played it. I haven't played it. And that's like super action-packed, super linear, like almost feels like more like Years of War or something. Like just doesn't really have anything to do with Resident Evil? And also really crazy story, I think. Yeah. I think some stuff happens in that. Doesn't the president become a zombie in that one? Oh, boy, I hope so. That sounds great. That sounds great.

But then I know, like, Resident Evil 7 is like the return to form. It's set in a house. I mean, other things happen in that game, but it starts in a house. And it's very, you know, scary in the way that Resident Evil 1 is scary, where you're just walking around a house and you're like, what the heck is going on with the people who live here? Like, just a deep-rooted human fear that you have going into these kinds of games. And since then, I feel like Resident Evil has been back on track. So it is kind of funny that now the remakes have caught up to the, the, the, the, the, quick spell of everybody being kind of annoyed at Resident Evil.

Well, right. And it's, I mean, the new ones also, like, Resident Evil 7, I love the first half of that game. And then it starts to become more Umbrella Corporation-y. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they did a whole DLC with Chris Redfields. They're bringing back characters where what was cool about RE7 was just that it felt like a standalone horror game about this cursed Southern Gothic, like, house and this family who, like, had horrible worms running through them and couldn't be killed.

And then as it became more of a Resident Evil thing, you switch characters, you have like a submachine gun you're on some ship. It just is way less cool. And Resident Evil 8, for all of its charms, I really like that game a lot, felt a little like a remix greatest hits of a lot of the past Resident Evil games. And also was very, very, you know, it had a lot of stuff where they're talking about Wesker and what's going on with umbrella corporation and whatever else. So I don't know.

Some people are really into that lore, man. Yeah, it's kind of fun in its way. It's hard to know where else you can take it at this point. Yeah. Because it's like the end of the original. Saints Row series where even the creators were like, we've done it all. We don't know what to do anymore. We made a musical. We're out of ideas. Maybe the Resident Evil musical is coming. Yeah. What am I saying? It's going to be a Resident Evil musical. It's going to be a, there'll be

musical. And then they can pack it in. Right. I guess they'll keep making these as long as people keep buying them and people keep buying them as long as they keep being fun. And Resident Evil 4 remake really is a lot of fun. Like you, Maddie. I plan to finish it. I've had a really great time with it so far. It's just a fun video game to play. So yeah, that's Resident Evil for Remake. We'll, I we'll be here. Man, I hope they make Metal Year's Solid 3, but we'll be here when they remake or attempt to remake. Let's say Code Veronica. That would be cool because they'd never

played that one. Yeah, I hope you do. They should do Resident Evil Code Veronica Mars and just... Yeah, really extraneous part of the Resident Evil lore, but it turns out it's all connected. I'd play it. All right, let's take a break and we'll be back with one more thing.

With Max Fund Drive in the Books, we'd like to welcome our new members and say thanks to everyone who's supported us over the years. Welcome. Thanks. And now, on to the sticker sale. A lot of this year's drive gifts and live streams focused on food. We love how food can bring communities together, but not everyone has access to the food they need. So we'll split the proceeds from our sticker sale among five US food banks in areas disproportionately affected by poverty. The sale ends Friday, April 14th. Members at the $10 monthly level and above can purchase any stickers they'd like. There's also a special

Max Fun sticker featuring Nutsi the Squirrel that all members can purchase. For more info, head to Maximumfund.org slash sticker sale. And thanks again for your support. A man was walking along a beach which represented his life. At his feet were two sets of footprints, his and gods. But looking back down the beach, the man could see that in the hardest parts of his life, there was only one set of footprints. So the man said to God, why is there only one set of footprints when times were hard?

God, where were you? And God replied, My precious child, I was in my car listening to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast. The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is a multi-award-winning comedy podcast and you can find it at maximum fun.org

or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back for one more thing. Jason, how about you go first? All right. Over the weekend, I finished a video game called The Legend of Heroes, Trails from Zero. I've talked about this last year, because it was one of my favorite games the last year,

but now I finally finished it because the sequel to it, Legend Heroes, Trails to Azure, just came out. And so you've got to finish this one before you can jump into the sequel because they're very much like a part one and part two type of thing. So, okay, here's what's really interesting about Trails from Zero. And I don't know if it'll be interesting enough to get either of you to play it, but certainly some readers out there might be interested. So Trails from Zero is a kind of term-based JRP in the Trails series that I've talked about for a long time.

It's set between trails in the sky, which came out a long time ago and Trails of Cold Steel, which is a little more modern. And it's more, it's 2D rather than the 3D of Cold Steel. So it looks a little more like an old school like PS1 slash PS2 era JRP. I think it first came into 2010. And what's really interesting to me about it is that whereas Trails in the Sky and really a lot of JRP's was about going on an adventure where you are going from city to city and to different dungeons and meeting new people along the way and getting a cast of new characters and who cycle in and

out of your party and so on and so forth, this game is set in one big city called Crossbell and it stars four main characters who don't leave your party. Dragon Age 2 approach. Who stay in your party the entire. time. And instead of just kind of like going on an adventure across the world, you play as these kind of this, what's called the special support section, a group of cops who are kind of like in their own world and free to operate from the corruption that's in the actual police force. And you go out on these little adventures to kind of save the city and save people and help people

out in the city. And over the course of the game, you gradually discover that there's all sorts of corruption and horrible stuff going on behind the scenes in the city, drug trading and mafia, crimes, and eventually human trafficking and all sorts of other crazy stuff. And it really culminates in this kind of epic fight where you're defending the city and like you go around from place to place and you have to fight off enemies and stuff. And it's all really cool. It ends in a really cool place and I'm really excited to play through the sequel. But what's really interesting is just playing a JRP that is built this way.

you mentioned dragon h2 kirk similar vibes in some ways although this is this is not just kind of developed in 18 months like super speed and so i had to cut corners or anything this is like a fully thought out game um what's really interesting is that like uh in these in all these games the npses have names and personalities and ongoing storylines and in this game you can really get to know them and you can get to know the city the city is massive and dense it's like 20 different screens and you kind of get to know how everything connects as you play and where everything is. And you can go between pretty much every cutscene, go talk to everybody and they'll all have different lines of dialogue. I couldn't bring myself to do this every single time. But if you like,

or the type of person who is like, you know, I just want to spend like the next 80 hours in my life just jumping into this JRP and spending every possible minute doing every side quest and talking to every MPC and seeing how they evolve, you will get a lot out of it. because this game is really, really intricate and really meticulous and how it just, like, keeps giving everybody new things to say and new, new storylines. And if you, like, really track all the NPCs, they all, like, have ongoing stories that they talk about, that are just really interesting. And so I have really enjoyed it, even though I did not do all of that.

I did not go around between each quest, talking to every single NPC in the city, still enjoyed it, still enjoyed and appreciated the richness of the world. and especially watching the story kind of like zoom out and become this grand scale thing. Of course you liked watching the story zoom out. I did. I like to zoom out of things. And anyway, really enjoyed it. Looking forward to playing trails to Azure, the sequel, which just came out a couple of weeks ago.

Very excited. Nice. I still have to finish Octopath 2, so I probably won't get to it. You do. You should stick to Octopath 2. I will. Well, there's another JRPG I now have to finish that we'll talk about at some point here. But there's always JRPGs to feel.

I always think about when you talk about a single city game about, I know Tim Schaefer mentioned this, but I can't remember whether it was his idea or where he was crediting somewhat else with the idea. This is when we talked to him at GDC a while ago. The idea of the dream game where it's a city block and that's the whole game. Yeah, that's Warren Spector's idea. I think Tim maybe referenced it. Yeah. Where it's like, what if there was just a city block, but it was a whole city block that it was actually as dense as a city block really is and the whole game just takes place there. One day, right? Because the single city game is the same kind of idea. Just it always never quite feels complete because, you know, you don't, you can't go into every

single house. You can't meet every single person. Yeah, I mean, Disco Elysia might be the closest we've seen to that so far. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting there. Like it, at times feels that way anyway. Yeah. Anyway, Maddie, what's your one more thing? Mine is a visual novel that I started playing called Misery Chord. It's volume one. And I haven't gone to the end of it yet, but I can already tell I'm going to be upset the volume two. It's not yet available. So let me spell misery cord because I had never heard this word before. M-I-S-E-R-I-C-O-R-D-E. So if you played Eldon-R-R-R-I-R-E- might know Misery Cord is the name of one of the blades in there, but it's also the name of a room

in a convent where the nuns are allowed to party. It's like that's the name of that room. What? Yeah. Yeah. And this game... Wait, so there's one room where they're allowed to like eat meat and like things they're not supposed to eat the rest of the time. And like, you know, play games with each other. Yeah, supposedly.

So this is a historical fiction murder mystery that is set in a convent in 1482. And if people played pentament or they're like a little familiar with it, you might remember there's a character in pentament called the anchores. And there's an anchoress. in this game, which is why I'm using that as a point of comparison, because I had never even heard of this before Pentima. And now this game, I'm like, yeah, sure, I know all about what an anchores does. But let's say you don't, because you plays the anchores in this game. So you start out, well, the very first scene in the game actually isn't set in the convent. So I won't spoil that. But then eventually you start playing as the anchores. And you are

locked in a room where all you were supposed to do is pray and read the Bible. And other people can come up to your room and they can look through a little tiny sliver and talk to you, but you can't see them and they can't see you. And all they can do is ask you for advice and you can give totally unbiased advice because your entire job in life is to read the Bible and interpret it for other people. And that's it. So you play as this character. But then there's a murder at the convent and Mother Superior drags you out of there and insists that you are the only person who could solve this case because she's like every single one of us is a suspect. but also you kind of know all of us

because you've been talking to all of us this whole time and you kind of know the murder victim too as it happens. You meet her, meet quote unquote her, early on in the game. And so then you're actually pretty sad when she dies. So I won't spoil that either. But this murder mystery, it's not a choice-based game. It's not like Dangan Rompah.

There's no choice at all. It's purely visual novel. You're just clicking through. But that doesn't mean it's not ridiculously thrilling. And like the cast of characters is delightful, almost entirely female cast, of course, because this is a convent we're talking about here. But there are a couple male characters on the periphery. They're all murder suspects. They're delightful, hilarious, creepy.

I don't know whether magic is real in this game yet. People see visions sometimes. I don't know. I'm really, really into the writing. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised because this game is actually a one-person show. It's made by ZC. They are one of the two hosts of Tr. Shrieking Shack, which is the Harry Potter podcast that Kirk and I have talked about over and over and over again.

And Zici has been working on this game for years, and they're still working on volume two of the game. I don't know. It's just freaking great. So I really recommend it. It's called Misery Chord. I love murder mysteries and I love this game. When is volume two supposed to come out? Because this sounds really interesting, but I don't want to play it until the whole thing is out. I know, right? I don't know. I've been now become a backer of Zici's Patreon purely because, I will get an earlier copy of volume two. That was enough to get me to subscribe. I was like, I want volume two immediately. That's what we have to, we have to ape that one.

We have to be like, early. We got to get people wanting us immediately. Come on, that's probably how people feel when they subscribe, right? That's how I feel. Anyway, I don't know when it's going to be out. When they finish it, that's the answer. Nice. That's very exciting.

I want to play that for sure. Do you do any guessing, like, we have a moment where you can guess who the murderer is? Or is it really just kind of in your head, you're, of course, interacting with it in that way, but it just kind of plays out. I don't know. I mean, I have certainly some suspicions against certain characters, but I don't think you, the player, ever get to make those guesses. And instead you just tag along with this character who you're playing as, well, she makes guesses in her own mind as to what she thinks is going on. And she's a very compelling character.

So I'm definitely enjoying it so far. Yeah, I'll go play that for sure. That's a great set up for a story. Well, my One More Thing is actually was a movie that Maddie watched. Yeah, I'm glad you watched this. Before I say my One More Thing, though, I want to, there's one link that I just want to shout out for everyone related to my One More Thing from last week, which was Kim Stanley Robinson's novel, The Ministry for the Future.

There is a really, really good interview that he did with Ezra Klein in 2020. This is when Ezra Klein's show is still on Vox, and now it's called something else. It's like Sean Elling's podcast, which I'm sure is great. But you can still go listen to it. It just looks like it's called. the different show now. It's not called The Ezra Klein Show. Anyways, I'll put a link for it in show notes. If you do read the book, I saw a lot of people saying they were thinking about reading it or that they'd read it. It's a lot to process and think about it, and you'll really

want to talk to people about it and think about it more. Listen to this interview. It's so good. It's an amazing interview to listen to after reading the book. Kim Stanley Robinson is amazing. All I want to do is talk to that guy for an hour, but it's the next best thing. So anyways, link for that in the show notes for anyone who's read that book. My one more thing is a movie called TAR that I finally watched over the weekend that Maddie, I know you had seen, and that your description of it made me more interested in watching it. You described it, if I recall correctly,

as being not really a movie about a powerful, famous woman being canceled, but more of a strange kind of horror story about a person who is just falling apart and more of an uncanny film than you'd been expecting. So I went in kind of knowing that it wasn't going to be, what I had also assumed it was based on just some very surface level like headline reading I had done. And yeah, what a movie. This is, I loved the movie. I was so compelled by it. I spent the whole weekend talking to my sister about it. It's very much a movie that I recommend seeing with somebody else. Yeah, so you could talk about it. Yeah, it doesn't do the work for you at all. It's not really interested in telling you what it's trying to say.

Yeah. It just says it very confidently and clearly and you walk away from it just, being like, wow, like, okay, I got to start thinking about the structure of this story, about this character, this incredible performance by Kate Blanchett. Holy crap. She, like, learned German and how to play piano for this. She embodies Lydia Tar, this protagonist. To recap very quickly, because Maddie already talked about it, it's the story of Lydia Tar, who is at the beginning of the film on top of the world of art.

She is the director of the Berlin Philharmonic, the conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic. She's an egot winner. She is a composer, an egot. it begins with this amazing, extremely lengthy New Yorker interview being conducted on stage where you learn everything about her and you see her just in total command of the world. And then these cracks begin to appear in her facade. They're there from the beginning, but they become thicker and thicker and more and more evident throughout the story of the people she's harmed, the versions of herself that she's

cast aside and the identity that she's built and the lies of her life. and you kind of watch this person fall apart. And as that happens, the movie becomes more and more uncanny and also more rushed. I think it's actually really interesting to think of this movie almost like a piece of music, where it begins with this lengthy adagio sequence where it's this interview that goes on for 20 minutes or something. They're just talking and it's so in control and her voice and her presence and she's completely empowered. And then there's this really lengthy, I believe, one shot classroom sequence where she's, she's giving a master class at Juilliard, that's pretty excruciating because she's, like,

humiliating this student, but then also engaging with them. And it's like she wins them over, but then blows it by going too far. And it's like this really long, like amazing acting, basically between two characters. But again, a really long sequence, this one take. And then the movie starts to compress and her world starts to fall apart and cracks become bigger and bigger and things get weirder and weirder. And soon, it's like this journey. almost into the uncanny, it begins to feel like a dream. And there's even a point in the story

at which a lot of people think it really just breaks with reality. And maybe even either is a dream or like dream logic just becomes inserted into the film in a way. So I want to reference, or recommend for anyone who's seen this movie, Dan Coy said Slate wrote a really good article about the ending. And it's his interpretation of just sort of that those aspects of it, the uncanny aspects. And he does a really good job of not saying, well, nothing in the second, you know, the third act of this movie happened, but more just this movie breaks with reality in a way that allows you to question what you're seeing and brings you inside of the psyche of the protagonists in a way that is just really provocative and ambiguous

throughout the ending. And you kind of just have to sit with that ambiguity. As he puts it, it's not a puzzle box. It's not like you can be like, oh, well, there's that thing in the background of that one scene. That answers the question. Oh, well, her name is spelled this way and that means this. There's no solution. It's like the opposite of it. It's like the opposite of that kind of satisfaction. Right. Because you leave the movie being like, I don't know what I think of any of this. Right.

Yeah. And it's one that you really just will want to talk to people about. Maddie, I want to talk to you about it too. Yeah. I figured you'd like all the music references and probably pick up on more of the music school like posturing and just the way that that works far more than I ever would. I just felt stressed out. I was just like, I hate all this.

I went to jazz school, which jazz school is very different than classical. Like going to Juilliard to study conducting. I'm sure there's still posturing involved and still, you know, condescending professors and so on. Yeah, but that world is different. And really, just to shout out Todd Field, the writer and director, this is his first movie in 16 years. His last movie was 2006's Little Children, which I saw. And I've never seen In the Bedroom, which I know is a fantastic movie. And this is his third movie.

So he's just, for more than a decade, didn't make a movie. And then he wrote this one, apparently with Kate Blanchett in mind. And he was like, if I can't get her for this movie, I'm not making it. It has to be her. And she found out about it and read the script and I think was like, hell yeah, I'm down. And they made this totally wild movie that like is just, I don't know. I really thought it was amazing, tour to force, whatever you want to call it.

And really recommend people watch it because it's fascinating. So anyway, that's my one more thing. Before we get going, Kirk, you got me thinking. I think EGOT needs to include Game Award. What should it be? EGGA. It's true because Liatura. She doesn't want a game...

Well, not yet. She might... You don't spoil anything. She might win a game award, though. Just based on some things that happen. Oh, my God. Jason, you don't know. The people who've seen the movie will be laughing.

I do know. I heard about it. Oh, okay, okay. Well, we won't spoil anybody, but that would be very funny. Maybe she became an EGatga. But that is a good point, Jason. People can now, they can strive to be EGACA. You're not really...

You haven't really made it unless you've also won a game award. That's right. Yep. Well, that was a game award. it. We did it. We made an episode. There it was. Triple Click. It's a podcast that we make. Thanks again, everyone who became a member during Max Fund Drive. And everyone who's a member already, we appreciate you. Thanks for supporting our show. And we wish you all luck on your EGACA quest. Yeah, good luck. That we all must now undertake. All right, and I will see the two of you in a week.

See you next week. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music, our show is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes.

Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at Maximumfund.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at Triple ClickPod.

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