Triple Click - Triple Click Classics: Zelda: A Link to the Past

Episode Date: October 1, 2020

Dun dun, dun dun dun dun dun... it's time to talk Zelda! This week, on a new segment called Triple Click Classics, Kirk, Jason, and Maddy dive into the Super Nintendo masterpiece The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past and talk about what makes it so great, from the design to the polish to the music. But why are you always rescuing the damn princess???ONE MORE THINGKirk: HadesMaddy: Destiny 2 (it’s baaack) (it never left)Jason: Final Fantasy XIVSupport Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinMusic Featured: “The Painful Way” by Darren Korb from the Hades OST“Overture” by Koji Kondo & Mahito Yokota from the Super Mario Galaxy OST Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Highlyans. There's a lot to love about them, but my favorite thing, hands down, is how you can walk into their house, use a bomb to blow a hole in the wall, and they'll be super chill about it. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games to you. This week, we're going back in time to replay a Super Nintendo classic, The Legend of Zelda, a link to the past. How does it hold up 30 years later? You'll have to listen to find out. Let's go. I'm Kirk Hamilton. I'm Maddie Myers. And I'm Jason Shrier. And here we are.

We're here. Hello. For another episode of Triple Click. Welcome back to another episode. Yes, here we are. And we're very glad that you're listening. We come to you every week to talk about video games. We have a great time making the show.

And it's really cool that so many of you like the show. If you want to support us making this show, the best way that you can do that is by becoming a maximum fun member. We are proud member of the Maximum Fun family. And to become a member, you can go to Maximumfund.org slash join. And if you do that, you get access to all kinds of free episodes from all kinds of maximum fun shows, including Triple Click, and you will get our monthly beans casts that we do sort of longer conversations

about single topics. The most recent one that just went up this past Monday was about Modern Warfare, Call of Duty for Modern Warfare, which was a really fun episode to make. Yeah, that was my first time playing it. Yeah, it was cool. Jason's first Call of Duty. Amazing. So if you want to know more about that, go to Maximumfun.org slash join.

Jason, you want to announce the next Beanscast that we're going to do? Let's announce the October beans cast because we're entering October. This episode is published on October 1st. Today is October 1st. So let's do it. Happy October. This month for our beans cast, we are playing through Horizon Zero Dawn. We are.

We talked about a few weeks ago and would like to get in depth on. Yeah. Are you two going to beat it again? I know I'm going to beat it, obviously. I might. I got pretty far in my replay and I think that it would be valuable if I could to beat it. though with the DLC, which is fantastic. It's a lot of video game, and I'm still playing a lot of other things, but it would be cool.

There is an easy mode. I will say that. That's true. I love the challenge of that game. But it's really fun to play on hard. Yeah, it's super fun on hard. Especially once you get into like the hard. I'm just saying.

If you want a refresher. Just on the story. I'm not sure if I'm going to finish it, but I'll definitely jump in and play. I played a ton when I came to PC. I played like a solid dozen hours or so. So yeah, so we're going to talk about that at the end of October. If you are a max fun member, you will get it. You'll get that beans cast.

So that'll be fun. All right. So what are we talking about today, Jason? Today we are introducing, I believe this is a new segment. It is. Called Triple Click Classics, where we talk about a classic game that the three of us have played. And this week is maybe one of the most classics of all, the most classic games of all. I would say it's up there in terms of classics.

When you say classic, people do think of this. game. Kirk, do you want to hum the main theme to take us in? Which main thing? Sure to that one. Great stuff. I love it. I love it.

Can you take out your voo-boozela? I'll get my penny whistle from my thing. Today we are talking about the legend of Zelda, a link to the past. my favorite games of all time, one of the classics. It came out for the Super Nintendo in 1991 in Japan and 1992 in North America. It was, even back then, it was just seen as like this mind-blowing revolutionary game because it took, so Zelda 1 came out and that was kind of like, oh my God, open world, explore, walk in any direction you want. And then Zelda 2 was kind of this weird, totally different game. There was a side-scroller action game. And then linked to the past took the

all to one formula and kind of expanded on it, but changed it to make it a little more linear, but then grabbed a bunch of, like, unique ideas. I mean, so linked to the past is, it's like, it's a Metroid-Vaania, even though it's not a Metroid or a Castlevania game. It's, like, it has all these Metropania elements. But anyway, we'll get to that. I have played this game a bazillion times, no at all by heart. Kirk Maddie, you guys have not played it nearly as many times as I have. This is your second time each playing through it. So I want to hear your impressions, For me, it's like all-time classic, one of my favorite games ever. Maddie, why don't we start with you?

It's your second time playing through it. How far have you gotten on this playthrough? And what are your overall thoughts? Okay, so I have gotten to the midst of rescuing the seven maidens. I'd have to boot up my switch for you to remember which maiden I'm about to rescue. I have not rescued the wonderful Princess Zelda yet. I know she is the final key in those seven maidens. But yes, the Dark World.

second half of the game, if we have to divide this game into halves. Nice. And I, the first time I played this, I was in my 20s. I alternated playing it with a friend who cared a lot more about it than I did. And by that point, I'd already played a lot of other Zelda games. So it was kind of like, oh, cool, this is the Zelda game that established a lot of the patterns that other Zelda games iterate on. And playing it now, I'm mostly.

it made me want to play Breath of the Wild, which is just a brain disease that I think all of us have at all times. And anytime I play any Zelda game, I want to play Breath of the Wild. So today I was listening to the Breath of Wild soundtrack a lot. That's the headspace I'm in now. So thanks a lot, Jason. Didn't really need another

open world game in my periphery, TBH. But also, it made me think a lot about playing Lynx Awakening as a child. I didn't get the experience of playing this game as a child. And we can talk, Jason, later, about what it was probably like for you playing it. But I feel like I would have had such a different

experience if I had played it then with infinite time, no access to walkthroughs or like very limited access, only talking to friends about how they discovered secrets and so on. It's such a big world and there's so much to discover. And just playing it as an adult, like I get frustrated I'll just look it up or I'll even just remember where something was and be like, oh, yeah, there's no friction. So like, I've never. had the experience of playing link to the past without knowing anything about it or having the luxury of either a walkthrough or playing it alongside somebody who already knew where everything was. Do you know what I mean? I feel like that would be a very different experience that now I can't

fully have. I could have tried to force it by just playing it alone and not pretending I didn't know where anything was. Well, so actually back then you kind of did because all of these games, every single game back in the day came with a little instruction manual that often contained a guide from like the first chunk of the game, especially RPGs and like action and adventure games. They would often include some sort of guide. So it was basically like you were playing with someone else sitting next to you showing you what to do. That's true. I just, I don't know. I wish I could go back in time and give it to myself as a kid. Even though I would have had some problems with it as a kid. But that's fine. We'll get into that. Kirk, any overall impressions you want to

share? Sure. So I first played this game with a friend as a kid. I didn't have Nintendo's growing up, but I had a friend who had like all of the game systems, my friend Brian, and I would go over to his house, and we would play games together, and he had a Super Nintendo, and he had this game, and was totally into it, and we did a sleepover, I think, maybe a series of sleepovers. This is like ideal. It was, and we played through it. He mostly played. We kind of handed the controller back and forth. I played through most of the game, but it wasn't the experience of figuring everything out for myself. It was much more the experience of, he was kind of showing me things.

he already knew a lot of secrets. And he was like better at the game. I just hadn't really played Zelda before. So yeah, playing it now, I've never played through it by myself. And I went back and forth on like, do I want to play this by myself and try to figure everything out? Or do I want to just look things up? And I actually leaned way hard the other direction.

I like looked everything up because I didn't have that much time. And I was like, I want to talk about it on the show. And I thought it would just be interesting to do that. How far have you gotten? So I've gotten right up to the dark. world. I'm like in that final dungeon before you go to the dark world. I guess before the castle. So yeah, I'm in the tower. And I've gone through to the dark world that first time where you turn into a rabbit and then come back. Yeah, you're a little bunny. So I played through that last night.

And I've gotten found so many secrets that I didn't know where in this game. And that has been the thing that struck me more than anything. This game has a very modern sensibility in terms of how secrets are hid. And I mean, I think that Dark Souls and those games kind of re-popularize this approach. And clearly we're doing it very explicitly, though, having played those games before I played a lot of Zelda, then playing Breath of the Wild and be like, oh, right, this is the like sort of granddaddy series of this, of doing this kind of thing. Just like, what happens if I throw my boomerang into this pool of water? Oh, you get a magic boomerang back. Like, how would you ever know that unless you kind of knew or a friend told you? But that's the magic at these games.

And I think that to me has been the most remarkable element of the game so far as those secrets and and how joyful they are and totally optional they are. To answer your question, how would you know this? Sometimes, I don't recall if that specific one has this, but often you'll find hints sprinkle throughout the world, whether it's their PCs telling you things. Or like games like this, I mean, in fact, I think it would be kind of dumb if it didn't give you any hint at all

of like something like that. That would be like the Bloodbourne style, like you have to look this up on the internet, which I actually don't think is a very good form of games. Well, but I mean, Souls games do the same thing. thing. Like, they do leave notes. And that's true. No, no, no, but I'm saying, okay, I'm thinking of very specific cases, like, when you fall into that dark area and you have to, like, use a specific gesture on the eye and there's, like, no indication anywhere of what you need to be doing to, like,

get that secret. I mean, somebody figured that out, right? Somebody did figure it out. But I think Zelda games are actually very good at signposting things. And that's one of the things that also strikes me about this game is, like, the density of it all and the way that, like, everything is such a clear visual language, which is a very Nintendo principle. And it always has been. since the NES days is like everything has is very clearly signposted for the player and like you see something and you know that it has a rule and the rule might be crazy and wild and like completely unintuitive counterintuitive but it's a rule that always exists so like you see a stone and you can pick it up with the gloves but if it's a darker stone then you have to use the Titans myths the upgrade to the glove to pick it up and there's no explanation for why a darker stone like needs heavy it needs more dense and so it's a darker stuff more dense and so it's a Why is it darker just because it's heavier, right? But you know, like, intuitively, like, once you pick up on the visual language of the game, you can figure that out. And it's very cool the way that it does it.

Or, like, cracks in the wall, you know, you have to put a bomb there. Like, it's, a lot of it is just, like, it teaches you through this visual language that I find really compelling. There is, I think it's interesting that the game is open world. This, I just, I just, I just, I mean, like, I mean, it's a world that you can walk. Because it's very restricted and then opens up to you more. But yeah, and even in the dark world, you can actually do some dungeons out of order. It's not as linear as like the opening parts. Yeah, I mean, this is a 1991 video game, though.

And it's just, it's so different than what my conception of a video game was at the time. I remember this feeling very exciting and playing it. I'm really, there will be moments where just a screen or like an image will really take me back just for a second. And I'll think I haven't seen that specific thing since. You know, I played this whenever I was like 12 years old or something. And I think that was key to the excitement feeling, is this feeling of freedom. And as restrained as it is, as they kind of guide you and get you to go places, you can totally go into that cave or not go to that cave. And if you go in, you might just find some, you know, a chest full of rupees or like a little guy.

I found the guy under the bridge who has the jar once you get the flippers. And he's kind of just chilling, he's like camping out under the bridge. But he like knows you and he's like, oh, hey, Link. He's like, I wish I could be more for you. Things are really tough for you. There's so many good secrets in this game. Oh, man. Yeah, it's so good at that.

And then it's so good at like continually adding mechanics. So once you get to the dark world and then you can use the magic mirror to kind of travel back and forth or you can find these little hidden spaces throughout the world, then suddenly you have to think in terms of like topography like, oh, if I open up this, if I go to the light world from here, I'll be standing on this ledge that I couldn't access otherwise. And so I can get to this heartpiece over here. Get to the site I'm over here. There's so much of it that is just like so friggin' clever.

They just packed in all these eyes. ideas into this game. That idea, I mean, so the fact that this game has verticality and you have to think in terms sometimes of being above or below is really interesting, especially for a game from this era like from so long ago, it is a 3D game. Like you'll be in a cave and you'll see that there's a pathway down low and go out. This is like on the, on the mountain, you have to kind of drop down to get over to the secret areas. I think that that is really interesting. And yeah, the fact that the dark world exists on top. of the regular world, the light world, is wild, only because we talk so much, or I talk a lot about

the time jumping level in Dishonored 2, I think it's called a crack in time, and the time warping, or the time travel level in Titan Vault 2, which at some point both of you will play and we'll talk about on this podcast because it's so cool. Both of those levels do the same thing where you're moving through it, they're both 3D first person games, but you're moving through a space, and in a press of a button, suddenly you're in a different space. And you go back and forth between the two and then they develop sort of puzzles where you have to be like, oh, the wall isn't there in the past, but it is there in the presence. If I go through in the past and, you know, people have played those levels. This game is from 30 years ago.

And it was basically doing the same thing. That's totally wild. Yeah. I feel like what struck me about it is how much it feels like a horror premise. Like my first poll for that was actually Silent Hill. Like the idea of another world that's on top of our world that's seemingly identical, but some things about it are different in some way. Like, that's classic Japanese horror premise, and it's a great premise, but it's just fun to see it in a game that feels so childlike and joyful up to that point. I mean, that's not to say the game ever gets really spooky scary, but I feel like it allows for that.

And then that's a trope that the later Zelda games can build on more and, like, lean into that spookiness by taking this premise of a dark world, which, of course, you know, Twilight Princess, like other games have played. with the idea of Link traveling between worlds and his form changing and the body horror stuff. And it's just, it's fun to see it here in this game that is so sprightly. I don't know. It's a weird combination. Beautiful, beautiful sprites. Beautiful, uh, literal sprites. Yeah, I think that this, this game to me looks like the Super Nintendo.

When I picture the Super Nintendo, I just picture the trees and the stumps. Like how the stumps have those little Xs in the middle of them. There's just the, there are these little, very classic look. Yes. And I think so many games have imitated that look, like modern games that want to look, like, you know, 16-bit games look like that's aged. Because it's aged very well. And that's one of the things that I find striking about this game is how well it's aged and how well it feels. By the way, Kirk to your point earlier about the past-present, like time travel thing, it's funny you mention that because the next Zelda game is all about past present and like seeing things in the past.

A great of time, obviously, which came out a few years later. But also there was a game that came out around the same time as linked to the past for the Super Nintendo called Chrono Trigger that basically, I think that's the first game. too have played with that idea that like you can find things in the present that aren't there in the past or that are different in the past and you're traveling between areas. But anyway, back to Lane to the past, I think that like basic mechanics, and again, this is just a classic Nintendo design principle and like this is why Nintendo is the best. But like every single mechanic in the game from swinging a sword to even just like picking up a stone has this like polished to it where the animation feels great and it's like just long enough and has that great feel

like when you're hitting somebody with a sword, it feels sufficiently rubbery and like they bounce back with just enough impact or they die with just enough like little graphical flourish that everything just feels really good. And I think that's the biggest reason this game is aged so well is that it's just like it's still very delightful

to play through it. Can we talk about the sword fighting just a little bit? In that there's one aspect of the sword fighting that I struggle with and it's sort of like a distance thing. I think that the moment of contact is really good. I really like how the sword swings on actual vectors and you have to get into an enemy's guard, which is pretty interesting. Like, they're kind of coming at you from a diagonal. Oh, also, I love the sound that guards make that

when they see you. What is that supposed to be? They're talking. They're whispering to one another. They're like, you think they're talking? I think it's kind of sounds like their armor maybe. Oh, yeah. But it could be. They're highly adjusting their stance. They've just sort of been co-opted by the bad guys. They've been possessed by evil forces. Yeah, I think so. Well, you're trying not to think about it too much because otherwise Link is slaughtering like his own people. I mean, sometimes they come back so it's fine. I think they're demons. I think they're demons. Although they do get called in the town. The guards get called and they come after you. That's the worst when someone narcs on you in the town. You got to not talk to anyone.

Because they're going to call a cops on you. Right, but you do need to talk to people because some of them give you bullshit. Every now and then. But you got to remember who's cool and who is it. It's a good moment. That actually, I'm getting sidetracked from the combat, but that moment when you go and talk to somebody and they're like, oh no, it's you, the criminal, and they call for the police. I feel like, I mean, especially when I was a kid playing this, those are the moments that make the game feel so big and, like, there are so many possibilities. As the world is reacting to you, not just you have a sword now and you can hit an enemy and do more damage, but like the culture, the society has reacted to you and people see you

and they know who you are and they react to you. And that, I think, especially for that time period, probably felt really cool. But so the combat is, I kind of struggle with like how you take damage just from touching enemies, but then you have to get pretty close to them to hit them. That's the one thing that to me doesn't feel amazing. And it's probably because I've been playing a lot of Hades lately, and that game's game feel is totally out of control. And they've had 30 years of iteration. But that's the one thing in the game where everything else really holds together. And the combat system does hold up. It's fun. And I've gotten my head around it. But the sword swing specifically.

Oh, yeah. Oh, man. I went into the castle recently. I don't remember why. But you know how if you try to just go straight up the gates. There's like two archers and two of those guys who throw the tridents. And I was just in this like bow and arrow fight with those guys. And it was so good. I've totally gotten, I've gotten better at this kind of game since just playing a lot of hollow night and a lot of other games like this where just dodging, moving objects and not getting hit is just easier for me because I sort of am just better at it now. So it was so fun. I was just like laughing and laughing as these guys keep shooting arrows at me. And I'm shooting at them and the arrows are bouncing off of each other in midair, which is a really cool thing

that happens in this game. They just bounce out of each other. And you can. And you can boomerang the arrows away from you as well, which is very nice. You don't have to place any arrows on that. That's true. Yeah, as you play, you get a lot more long-distance stuff, especially in the dark roll. I got the magic boomerang now. You got to get the magic boomerang. And you got like these three medallions that let you cast spells. There are a lot of random-ass items in this game. I love the fairy in that pool and the magic pool where she gives you good stuff. Like you throw in something and she'll just give you back. She's like, okay, well, thanks. Here you go. And she doesn't do anything to it.

You're like, oh, man. So you're kind of just throwing stuff in. And then when she's just like, I appreciate your honesty. She's like, did you throw this into the pond? The whole premise of that is very funny to me. It's so bizarre. Yeah, it's so funny. Yeah, there's so much good stuff in this game.

The sound effects, when you, like, shoot the Armos nights in the first, in the first dungeon, those are one of my favorites, like, when the Armosin'ans go, like, wha-h. Like, there's a certain, like, whan to, like, hitting things. So, yeah, so this is, this game's structure, I think, is really interesting because it's a type of game. It has that kind of like Metroidvania feel. This game came out about two or three years before Super Metroid. It came out after the original Metroid, but it still has that feel of like you see something, you can't get through

it now, you know that you're going to be able to come back to it later and figure out, like get the, once you have the item that lets you get up to it. And it has this like kind of, it does, it has that open world feel, but it's surprisingly linear, especially at first, because so much of it is locked off to you. And then you get progressively more keys as you like unlock the world and go on. And it's very much a game that encourages backtracking and writing things down, like writing down, oh, there's a thing here that I could get to later. I'm curious, you guys, Maddie, especially as our resident Metroid fan girl, what's your take on the overall structure of this game?

It's funny. I would never have thought to call this a Metroidvania at all. Yeah, you've called it that multiple times, and I'm seeing what you mean. It is true that you get different items. I feel like so much of the signposting in this game is puzzle-based, which is something that Medtri occasionally does, but it's not as common. It's more like, oh, I can just tell that this is an area I can't get to. Whereas in this game, and in a lot of Zelda games, it's not necessarily that you need an item.

It's that you need to be thinking about something in a different way. Sometimes you need an item, but it's so frequent in a dungeon that you'll see a bunch of treasure chest, or certain doors that you can't get to. And it's not that you need the hookshot or something. It's that you need to approach it from a completely different place. Yeah, I should be clear. I'm talking about the open world, not the dungeons. Sure.

Because the dungeons are not designed in that way. The dungeons are designed in the way that you're talking about. The open world is designed Metroidvania-ish. And I guess the story is sort of encouraging backtracking or at least unexpected in the way that Metroid games can be because you keep thinking it's over or that you've achieved some type of new thing. Like you collect the three pendants, you can't get the master sword right away, and you think that's going to be some huge moment. The wizard has to be defeated and redefeated multiple times.

Gannon classically has to be defeated and redefeated multiple times. That feels very like, you know, Ridley flying out of the space station, and you know you're going to see that guy a billion more times. There's certainly some similarities structurally there, but Zelda to me, I mainly just think of it as a puzzle game. And Metroid is not always quite that way. But you're right. I mean, there are a lot of really core similarities there in terms of items. Yeah. Well, so that's the thing about Link to the Past.

You're spending so much of your time in these dungeons. And there are 10, 11, really 12, depending how you're counting, 12 dungeons in the game. And each of them is this little puzzle box, and they get increasingly more complicated. And it's very much the classic Zelda style that really this game pioneered because the first two, they both had items and dungeons. but the puzzle solving was not quite the same and the backtracking was not quite the same. It's really this game that kind of pioneered that formula

of like you go through the dungeon, you see all these different things as you go. There aren't a ton of ways you can go yet until you get the item and then suddenly you can find your way through and getting all these, like unlocking all these areas, seeing all these things you couldn't do before. And each dungeon in the game has a key item. The first couple are like the bow and arrow

and then the power glove and so on and so forth. And there's just so much clever design surrounding them What do you guys think? Kirk, what do you make of the dungeon design in this game? You're battling through the tower as we speak. Yeah, I really like the dungeons that I've played so far. They're smaller than, you know, a dungeon might be in a more modern game, but I like that. They feel kind of quaint. You just go through, and there's a couple of secrets, and then you get the big chest,

and then you go straight to the boss, and then the boss fight is usually pretty easy, or at least so far they've been pretty easy. I don't mind that at all because each dungeon is just a little bit different. has like a new idea. I liked how in the desert dungeon, you leave the dungeon, and then you go and pick up the rocks and go back into another part of the dungeon through a door that you couldn't access previously. It's just a little clever thought, like, oh, what if you left the dungeon, the middle of the dungeon? And then the only way to get to the end of it was you had to go in through a different door. So there's a lot of stuff like that. And I like all those little sorts of ideas.

And then each one sort of subsequently adds an idea like that. So I appreciate them for their small scope their focus, I think. Yeah, well, so as you go, the dungeons do get bigger, but they're always focused. So, like, later on, when you go through the dark world, there's one dungeon that's, like, built around, it's sort of like the water temple from Okorina, except this was the preliminary water temple. It's built around, like, draining water in the dungeon, and you have to, like, drain, and then undrain and drain and undrain. There's another dungeon that's just the ice palace, and it's based on, like, skitting ice and moving blocks of ice around. But, yeah, there's some really, just like clever stuff as you go and some really convoluted stuff.

When you get to Turtle Rock, the last dungeon in the game, it's definitely, it's humongous. It's bigger than, bigger than I think it'll be surprising you, how big it is. Because Zelda's in there. You got to make it really important when you go out to Vint to Zelda. That is true. Gotta rescue Zelda. Although Zelda is just kind of like another one of the maidens that you have to rescue. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of, it's interesting. The whole trope of rescuing a maiden of being a dude, rescuing a maiden. This This game has seven maidens that you have to rescue. It's like that trope time, seven.

I know, I know. And they're all trapped in little crystals that Link can seemingly carry in his pocket. Like, I guess that's how that works before they get to do their final smash together and open up the door. Look, if we're going to make women to things that you need to rescue, might as well make them to literal objects that you can carry around in your pocket. Yeah, it's fun. They like, they get to come out of the crystal and then, like, say their line to Link. And then they're like.

Say, thank you. They appreciate it. And then they're like, okay, back in the crystal I go until it's time for me to do one more plot action. And then I'm gone again. Yeah, I don't know. That was the main thing that I was like, maybe it was fine that I didn't play this as a child. Like, I don't know if I needed even more damsel in this in distress media in my life. There's already so much of it in games in that time period.

But like, as an adult, I can just kind of laugh sardonically about it. But yeah, I was definitely struck by the moments in this game when they actually let Zelda do something, which are few and far between. Like she helps you push open the door. And like the fact that I'm citing that really speaks to how little Zelda does. And I don't know, she's always screaming about something. And it's just kind of too bad.

It was part of what made me think about Breath of the Wild because I feel like that game is such a strong commentary on the idea that these characters have predetermined roles that they have to follow and they're uncomfortable with that idea. And that's something that I think the series has really strained against since this game and since it's origins,

and it's something that I think people feel pretty uncomfortable with now is the idea that people have predetermined roles, which is what this game's literally about, is like you are a genetic carrier of a certain role, and you must perform it, and it's also, like, divine right of king's stuff. Like, we must put the rightful ruler on the throne in order for the land to flourish.

Like, all that is in there. Yeah, the whole idea of the Zelda timeline is, like, different links being descendants of each other and the story of Link. And yeah, there's a lot of it that is like kind of, it's almost the antithesis or like the opposite side of the coin of Nintendo. Like with one side, you get these amazing design ideas and mechanics and like design polish unlike anything else in the video game industry. On the other side, you get this traditionalism and conservatism when it comes to storytelling. And it's like, Mario has to always rescue the princess. Link always has to rescue the princess.

It's always these fucking princesses that you have to rescue. like they just can't seem to find the courage. It's funny because Link has the Triforce of courage, but they can't seem to find the courage to like subvert it even once. And like hopefully Breath of the Wild too, like blows us away and it's like you play Zelda in this one. But still it's it's... Well, they keep walking up to it, right? I feel like in Breath of the Wild, in a lot of these modern Zelda games,

there is the discussion of the legend like you were saying, Maddie. It's part of the story. And then the game does seem to be kind of in conversation with that. But then the best they've done, is that, you know, whatever, 30 years down the road, I guess, 27 years down the road, people really thought the Zelda might be playable in this one. Like, that's as good as it gets. People keep waiting for that.

I feel like I'm the only person who's given up hope on that at this point, because just various Zelda designers have made so many statements over the years about how it won't happen, that I'm just going to take them at their work. Yeah, but the trailer for Breath of the While, too, like Link gets kidnapped. So it's the one thing that has given people hope, I think. He's gotten out of many scrapes before. Oh, that's true. But yeah, I think there are some other messages in the game, though, beyond just the conservatism one.

Like, I was looking into it because I think when I think of Zelda, I think about Arthurian legends and, like, Western legends being a huge influence on them. But today I was reading about, like, sort of more Buddhist and Shintoist legends and how those played a role in the story. And I thought that was pretty interesting to get into. And when this game came out, apparently Japan was going through sort of a weird phase of. environmentalism and there were some theories that this game was a part of that and just part of that trend and I think you can definitely see that reading as well which isn't necessarily a conservative one I mean you can interpret it a few different ways but this idea of like someone taking over the world and it changing fundamentally for the worse which is very much what Gannon does in this game

like you can you can kind of get a climate change message out of the dark world spilling into our world and like a leader who is corrupting the land. I feel like that part, there's definitely a reading you could do that would be interesting. But you're right, Jason. Like, there is also just a fundamentally conservative aspect of defined roles in this game that is hard to move past. Yeah, I like that. I like the environmental message, because there is a lot of like just environmental stuff in this game. I mean, you wind up draining water like I mentioned. In one point, you can drain the water in the sewer thing and then you go outside and the lake beds are all dried up. And, the fish are like struggling and dying.

Yeah. And then, yeah, the dark world is just this like corrupt, like arid version of, of the vibrant green world. There's a lot of like green bushes and trees and very, it does feel like a very environmental game. I mean, the legend of Zelda, ha ha, ha, ha, but the legend behind this game, behind Zelda, is that Shigeromiomoto, like, made up this game, this concept while he was exploring the caves and woods behind his house where he lived in Japan.

So it is very, very important. centric series. And so I do, I really like that idea and that theory, Maddie, as well. So I played this game when I was a kid, though, you know, like I said, I played it, kind of shared the experience with somebody else. But then I played a link between worlds. And I played that pretty recently. And while I was aware that that game is very closely tied to a link to the past, I hadn't played a link to the past in so long that playing it just, it felt basically like a new video game. I was like, this is great. Playing this now after having played a link between Worlds, which I love. I think I've played that game one and a half times, at least. I totally

want to play it again sometime. It really struck me how everything in a link between worlds is some sort of a reference to a link to the past. The map just feels the same. There are so many times where I'm going places. I'm like, oh, right, this cave, it's kind of still here. There's just something different in it, which is funny. I feel like the longer you're alive and you play video games, the more likely you are to have these experiences of playing the thing and then playing the thing that inspired the thing later in realizing the full extent of the inspiration. Yeah, it's a weird experience, but it's worth having. Like, if somebody's listening to this and they're like, well, I've played a lot of Zelda, but I've never bothered to play Link to the past. I hope they'll consider it at least checking it out because it's such a cool feeling to play something and be like, oh, this is just the er legend. Like, this is the version of it. Because it's explained very concisely in the game. It has all the charm and like funny dialogue quirks that Zelda games sort of try to have later on. but it's in its most distilled form here, I think.

Yeah, and even if you've played Link Between Worlds, like it's specific things, right? Like, where his house is located? The map is just the same map, or it's really similar anyways. And so I'll just be like, oh, yeah, I know where his house is. And I'll be like, wait, why do I know that so? Oh, right, because I kind of played a game with this scene. Yeah, it's meant to be a direct sequel.

It was announced as late in the past two. Kirk, speaking of Link Between Worlds, let's talk about the music of this game. Oh, man. because that is one of the main reasons that it's such an all-time classic is because of that soundtrack. Yeah. From the overall theme to just like, yeah. I would say this is the definitive version of the Zelda overworld theme is in this one.

That counter melody that comes in is really good. I haven't, so I really want to get to the dark world because I want to hear that dark world music. I know it really well. It's such a good, it's such a good musical theme. and the version of it that plays in The Link Between Worlds is, I'm going to say it's my favorite musical track of any Zelda game. I don't really know if that's true. There's a lot of stuff in Windmaker that's, like, really good.

But when that comes in, in that game, the groove is so nasty. I just remember playing that on my 3DS and being like, oh, my God, like, I love this game so much. I didn't think I could love it anymore. Yeah, that's why I brought it up because you were raving about that a couple of weeks together. I'll just put it on sometimes. It's just like, oh, it's so good. It's just, oh, it's so good.

And so I'm excited for that moment in this game, too. But in this game, the soundtrack in this game is killer. Oh, yeah. Any particular thoughts on that other than the overall theme? No, I like the dungeon music. I like the weird, those weird sounds that the Super Nintendo would get. Some of those like synth sounds that are just very odd. I did this, you know, I did that Strong Songs episode on Super Mario Brothers,

which was the sound module for the original NES. And I only learned a little bit about the S-NES, which is much more. capable in terms of sounds. But the more Super Nintendo games I play, the more of those specific synth sounds that they get on that, on that console, really just stand out to me. It's such a distinct and really weird. It's like a weirder sounding console in a lot of ways than the NES. So yeah, final thoughts before we go and take a break. I mean, I could rave about this game all day long, but I think the overall package is just like really incredible. And I think because of those 2D graphics, it's aged a lot better than a lot of 3D games and even a lot of other

Super Nintendo and regular Nintendo games. So I recommend playing it if you can. Everyone should go play it. Maddie, you want to give your overall thoughts? And then Kirk? Sure, I would agree with that. I think it's definitely worth playing if you like other Zelda games and you've never gotten around to some of the older ones. Like if you're a person who's played Breath of the Wild, for example, or a Twilight Princess and you're like, I want to know a little more about this world. I think this is the older Zelda game I would recommend, perhaps even over something like Link's awakening because that's sort of an alternate universe version of Link's world and was a really weird one for me to start with as a child. This is like, the legend makes sense. Everything's here. It's all

straightforward and it's got all that good, good classic Zelda shit in there. It's very satisfying. Yeah, I would say pretty much the same. You know, you can play this game if you have a subscription to the NES thing. It's just in the Super Nintendo app, which it has that, I'll say that rewind is so cool. Saving Game States is so great. We didn't even talk about it. same state. It's so good. How did anybody even deal when it was just fairies? Yeah, I don't either. I don't know. And so that makes the game so much more playable that you can really just see it. And I've been playing with a walkthrough and just checking stuff and whatever, exploring, and then looking where to go. And it's been really fun. It's just like really low-key way to

play the game. I totally plan to finish it. It's really cool. I got to get to the dark world and hear that dark world theme. But yeah, it's a great game. I mean, I'm surprised at how well it holds up and how modern it feels in a lot of ways. Yes, agreed. Okay, this has been triple-click classics. Why don't we take a break? And then we'll move back. one more thing. Hello there, ghouls and gals. It is I, April Wolf. I'm here to take you through the twisty, scary, heart-pounding world of genre cinema

on the exhilarating program known as Switchblade Sisters. The concept is simple. I invite a female filmmaker on each week, and we discuss their favorite genre film. Listen in closely to hear past guests like the Babadook director, Jennifer Kent, Winter's Bone Director, Deborah Granick. and so many others every Thursday on maximum fun.org. Tune in if you dare. It's actually a very thought-provoking show

that deeply explores the craft and philosophy behind the filmmaking process while also examining film through the lens of the female gaze. So, like, you should listen. Switchblade sisters. Hi, I'm Allie Gertz. And I'm Julia Prescott, and we host Round Springfield. Round Springfield is a Simpsons-adjacent podcast

where we talk to your favorite Simpsons writers, voice actors, and everyone who's worked on the show, to talk about shows that aren't The Simpsons. So we're going to be talking to people like David X. Cohen, Eardley Smith, Tim Long, about other projects they've worked on. Sometimes projects that didn't go well. Some failures. Some rejection. Some failed pilots. Some failed life events.

Yeah. We just talked to all the failures of The Simpsons. Yeah. So if you really love your Simpsons trivia and want to get to know the people who have worked on the Simpsons a little bit better, come by Round Springfield. Every other week on maximum fun.org or wherever you get your podcast. And we are back. Kirk Maddie, it is time to do one more thing.

Maddie, I'm going to start with you. Guess what Maddie is going to talk about, everybody? Guess. I couldn't possibly guess. It's Destiny 2. Listen, I tried to carve out a lot of time this week for Link to the Past. I wanted to get as far as I could before we recorded the show. and I only had a couple of extra hours for my raid friends on Sunday,

and we all did another raid together. We have not beaten it yet. We're still working on it. I don't have a ton to say about the game itself. It's just been a great comfort to me to have found a gaming group that I really like. And I guess it's just kind of a weird COVID thing where, like, I never would have thought I'd be a person who'd be playing this much of a multiplayer game again. It's been a while since I had a consistent multiplayer game in my life,

and I'm sort of remembering like, oh yeah, in college I did this a lot more. And I had times of my life where I had that. But this is like one of the few quote unquote parties that I attend in any form. And the Destiny 2 of it all doesn't really matter that much to me. I think it's entirely possible that we'll beat the raids and I won't even care about Destiny 2 anymore. Or I will convince the two of you that we need to deeply care about the next season of Destiny 2 and we'll stream it and it and it'll be gangbusters. but it's that part of it's kind of faded away. I'm planning on jumping in when beyond like I'm down.

I'm down. But like at this point it has so firmly become a socialization activity in my mind again that it's a comfort. So shout out to Destiny 2 for being the greatest alternative to Skype that there is. Keep it up. Keep it up, Destiny 2. Yes. Yes. Kirk, what's your one more thing?

My one more thing is Hades. But it's a different type of Hades than we talked about last week. So last week, Jason, I know you and I were both playing the game. We were sharing impressions of it. I've played a lot more of it, not as much more as I would like to because I was playing a lot of Zelda as well. Though that, like I mentioned earlier, transitioning between the two games is wild only because Hades is so smooth and so awesome feeling to play. And Zelda is great, but it's just not the same experience. You can tell it's a 2020 game versus 19-19-1.

Yes. Like, I'm immediately playing it. I'm like, I just want to play this. I made the mistake of starting a game at like 1130 at night, which is a good way. to not get a good night's sleep because it's so hard to stop. Like once you get going, just because why stop? You can just do another run and you want to kind of see what you get for your first drop when you drop in and then, oh, what's this build going to be like? But I've been playing enough that I have a lot more sort of in the weeds thoughts about this game. So I wanted to kind

of nerd out about it a little bit and see what your thoughts were, what your thoughts were as well, Jason. Have you cleared it yet? Oh, no. So yeah, let's say how far I've gotten. So, I beat Theseus and the Minotaur for the first time a couple nights ago. That's a chuck point. Yeah, that's a tough fight. But it was the minute I got there, I got all the way to Hades. And then I almost beat Hades, like on that same run. Because I was just untouchable all the way up to there.

And then in that fight, I didn't even die. I didn't use one death defiance in that fight. I was just going. And the build that I did it with was Aries. Aries has some great abilities. I've like really come around on Aries. Aries, his cast, which lets you throw that like spinning thing of blades, super useful for that fight because you can kind of just run around in circles.

And doom. I mean, doom is like, is a critical. Yes, and I also had doom on my main attack, which is useful. But just running in circles and doing that cast into the middle of the room, kind of while the Minotaur chases you around, like Theseus can't hit you. And then they do a lot of damage. So that was how I got that far. And I feel like I could have beaten Hades, which I gather. I know that's not the end of the game, only because people count the number of clears

that they get and they kind of keep going. But it also opens up, I hear, story-wise, like, as you keep playing it, there's more stuff. So the way it works is, so yeah, so once you clear Hades, and I'll try to be spoiler lightier, but once you clear the first run, which I did over the weekend, clear to run for the first time, you just wind up back in the same place as you were, and then you can just keep doing runs. You get a new ability to, like, open up challenges and challenge yourself, and that's when, that's in that way it opens up. In terms of the story, the story is advancing every time you die no matter what. Like there will always be character interactions and like rapidly advancing stuff.

And so that is really interesting. And the way that it's structured is really cool and smart. And like I mentioned last week, it makes you feel like you're always making progress because the characters always have new stuff to say. And there's always new skills to get and new abilities. You really are like getting better and better mechanically as you go because you can build your experience using darkness and like unlocking stuff in the mirror and I'm locking weapon aspects and all this other shit.

It's some really, man, it's so good. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I have all the death defiances and a hundred health at the beginning, which is huge. I mean, I'm way more powerful than I was. It's like the whole, like, Tartarus is just a joke at this point. And it just, it wasn't, not because I wasn't good, but because like, Zag was just weak at the beginning of the game and now he's really powerful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's very much not just skill-based, but stab-bikes. What was your build when you beat, when you beat Hades for the first time? What were you using? Yeah, so there are two builds that have gotten me really far. One is using the disc, the spinny, or the shield, but you can, if you use one of your blood to upgrade it, you can turn it into this like spinny thing that stays spinning and attacks people while you can attack anyway. And it's called like the aspect of Zeus or something like that. And that's super useful because then you can deck it out as you go in a build to get it like shooting lightning bolts and anybody surrounding it. So you can throw your disc and have your disc in one side of the room while you're just fighting enemies in the other side of the room and it does like double the clearing duty.

but then the one that I actually cleared the game with was a Malfon's fist build which is like the short range melee weapon just combined with some some rad shit like I had a magnetic pull on it and some like Aphroditi's love mechanics which make enemies really weak and just combined with like Demeter

Demeter who chills enemies and like you can wind up there the game is so well balanced that you can wind up like finding cool stuff and making your build really powerful, no matter who you find along the way, which I think is really a testament to how great this game is

and how long they've spent with it in early access. That is true. Two years in early access. Yeah, I've found I like Athena because I really like deflecting is awesome. As you're getting better and before you've kind of really figured everything out, it's nice to just be able to sit there

deflecting like range to tax back at people. Yeah, and there's an enemy, there's like a sub boss, a mini boss called the Witches Circle. Yeah, I love that with deflect where you can just stand that and just be like, Ha ha, ha, nope. Stop hitting yourself. Yes, very good.

So Maddie, so when you get to this witch's circle, so witches in this game, shoot bullets at you, and it's like bullet hell style game. And the witch's circle is like five of them, and they're all just shooting. It's like impossible to move around. All you see is bullets. And if you get in there, like with a normal, and you don't have deflect, you're like, oh, shit. Like this is it. Like, this could be my right.

But if you get in there and you have deflect, it's just like instant win because you're just are deflecting all these bullets back at the enemies. It's amazing. It's very good. Yeah, such a good game. And like some people have really just like mastered the way. And there's strategies to like how you can choose, which, which perks you should choose along the way. And if you're thinking like long term versus short term, you always want to prioritize the weapon upgrades to Dallas's hammer.

And then Boons and then like there are different strategies you can take along the way. Datalus hammer. Man, what a good game. It's really good. And yeah. So I've been using the spear mostly. But the shield's super fun and I've unlocked the other stuff and haven't used it. There's a gun.

There's just that like gun. That's the one I don't like. That's the only one I don't like is about it. I'm not going to use it because it just doesn't seem like a, like a ranged game. Even though I gather the bow is very good. Well, you should use all of them because you actually, you get bounty. No, I don't know. You notice.

But yeah, so every time you clear a boss, you get something, but you only get it the first time you're using that. No, no, I know. Until later when you can find another way. It's more that like I'm sticking with one thing that I've learned. But I mean, the fact that playing the game with like the gloves, totally different game. It's such a different thing. And then you can upgrade them and get all these different abilities. And yeah, the Daedalus Hammers give you specific abilities on, like,

some of the Daedalus Hammer stuff for the spear is totally wild and changes the function of the weapon entirely. Well, it does that with all of them. I know, I know. And so there are these like, just, yeah, there's so many games within this game. I'm going to be playing this thing forever. It's so freaking good. If anyone listening to this is on the fence about Hades, like, go play Hades.

It's really, really, like, next level good. Yeah. I have it. I'm going to play it. It will have it. You're going to like it. I think it's going to be one of the, like, significant game of the year, like, Everyone's list has 80s on it.

It's basically mandatory at this point. And that looks good as hell. It's a phenomenon. Also, it's super horny, as we talked about last week. I think that it has everything. For every type of gamer, it has, like, hardcore min-maxing, and then it also has the romance. Yeah, I think that that's part of the stickiness.

Right. Is the amazing, like, super hot character designs. Yes, I think that's part of it. But also, like, funny dialogue and all that good stuff. It's also a good game to point to if you're ever, like, talking to some Chud or Gamer Gator is like, why can't games have sexual stuff and, like, defending bikini armor or whatever? You look at a game like this, and it's like, this is an equal opportunity, horny game. Like, you look at Aphrodite's, and then you look at Aries, and it's like, this is very much a game that is appealing to all types of sexuality.

And that's the key, yeah, well, that's the key. And that in and of itself is hot. Like, it's hot to be that way. To be inclusive about it. Like, yeah, yeah, no, totally agree. It's hot on multiple levels, and that's really cool. So it's like, basically the argument, it's very easy. bikini armor would be totally fine if you also have like I don't know dick armor or whatever it is

if that's the aesthetic of your game which like adie's just kind of decided that that's the aesthetic of its world which is fun because it's the Greek gods and they're like already fan fiction characters anyway right right bunch of horn dogs to begin yeah very messy so much here's for equal opportunity horniness okay my my one more thing is so on Sunday um I had an opportunity um my wife and daughter were at my in-laws place, so I was all by myself just for a day, for a couple days. And so Sunday, I had an opportunity to just watch football all day and play Final Fantasy 14, which I have gotten into. It was quite a day.

It was quite a day. I won't get into all the football stuff, even though there's a lot to talk to, but I'll save that for a future week. Lots to talk about Nick Foles and Gardner Minshu are recurring NFL players on this podcast and the previous podcast. Both have fascinating stories, but I'll get into that another time. I really want to talk about Final Fantasy 14. So this is the MMRP. I started playing this after the Final Fantasy 16 trailer because it's a lot of the same people. And I was like, man, I really got to finish this thing.

I had stopped a couple of years ago after just getting up to Heaven's Word. Here's the key thing, though. I was playing my game on PS4. Now I've switched to playing it on PC exponentially better, like just playing it with a monitor and a mouse and keyboard. This game was not meant for a controller. It's fine with the controller, but not meant for a controller. Anyway, dove into this game, just spent hours and hours playing in on Sunday while watching football, and have finished Heaven's Word, which is the first expansion of the game.

Man, you guys, it's really, really good. What a really, what a fantastic game. The storytelling is really good. The music is incredible. The atmosphere and the art and everything about it is just really good. And like you wind up, it's the rare MMO. It has like very classic MMO gameplay in that there are tanks and healers and DPS characters and you quest together and do dungeons together.

You can play most of the game solo, but throughout the main story quest, you eventually have to do dungeons, and you can just be matched made with random people and stuff like that. And the gameplay is very much like auto-attacking, like using abilities, like figuring out your rotations, all the stuff you would do in a classic MMO. But the big difference here is that, like, it's all about the story. And so like, unlike something like World of Warcraft, where the story is just kind of fine, but you're really in it for like the rating and hanging out with your friends and, like, other aspects of MMO, this is a game where you can play it and just like get this incredible, like, length. the deep, rich story where, like, you have this gang of characters who are going along with you. They're all NPCs who are going along with you as you play through the main story. And they all have personalities and, like, are just really interesting and deep and funny and, like, have this great, like, sense to them to the point where, like, the game actually kills off characters

and it's, like, heartbreaking or, like, the game does all these interesting things. Characters betray you or, like, fall in love and, like, do all these really interesting things. Heavens were the first expansion, this very Game of Thronesy. It's like it's about this war between the city of people in the snow, like on the snow tops, and they're at war with these dragons and you have to figure out what the deal is and like why the war started and try to put it into it. And it takes you to some really fascinating places. And man, I really like this game. I'm going to try to get all the way through Shadowbringers, which is the third expansion.

Because people say. Very highly regarded expansion. Yeah, they're all good. There's just so much of this game. There's so much of this game. is the barrier franchi, and it is so time-consuming. And you have to pay every month, if you want to stick with it, it's just so hard to get into.

I heard that they've streamlined, like, the earlier parts of the game, so no longer it takes just like 100 hours before you get into the first expansion. I think you can jump, you can zip through it a little bit more quickly, fortunately, because there are some parts that definitely dragged when I was playing back in the day through those early parts. But, yeah, man, it's just so good and soothing and comforting. And just, I really like it. in so many different ways.

And it's also making me really excited for Final Fantasy 16 because if there's one thing... You really needed to get excited for Final Fantasy 16. Yeah, you weren't. It's really good that it's gonna get you there. I wasn't enough.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, you guys heard me last week. I was so muted and I was so bored of it. You're so bummed out. I'm not really sure what to think. No, but like you... Because if this game has a weakness other than a monthly subscription,

which is a paint, if this game has a weakness, it's the combat because it's very... MMO combat. There's a lot of just like waiting around and like occasionally just like going through the motions, especially if you're playing solo like I have been. But Final Fantasy 16 promises to take like the music and the vibe

and the tone and the writing of 14 and then also add this like action heavy combat that looks pretty sweet in the trailer. And man, I'm quite excited. Gathering that you're excited for Final Fantasy 16. But anyway, 14, really good game. I'm going to try to stick with it and like see how much I can play before I burn out. See if I can get through the next year expansions and like catch up in time for all the brand new stuff.

But yeah, people just rave so much about Shadowbringers, and I'm like, I have to play through this. I have a feeling that you will. That's cool. Yeah, good luck. Yeah. More, more hours. Fun game.

And the dungeons, I've got to say, are really cool also. And just like the idea that you're playing with these other people. And everybody so far has been very friendly. I'm playing as a tank, so I have a lot of responsibility. And, like, I'm not great at it. But people have been super chill. People are being nice. Oh, that's always good.

The community seems super chill. Even if you're not very good. That's the dream. It seems very much like a game full of people who are like, like, chill players. It's not like a hardcore community. And yeah, I just really like it. There's just so much to do and so much to like. One of the things that's really clever about it and then I'll cut off is that on a single character,

you can level up every class in the game and you can switch classes whenever you want. So it's very, it's not like in World of Warcraft, you're not locked in. Make a brand new character and you're totally locked out. I remember liking that even from the small amount that I played. Yeah, unless you can really just switch weapons and switch classes instantly. I will say there's a free trial, I think, that takes you all the way through Heaven's Word. I think there's some restrictions, but you can't play jump in for free. So if people are curious, there is a way to just jump in and not have to pay for it.

First one's free. Anyway, Cloud of Minus D-14. Good stuff. All right, I think that is it for this week's episode. Kirk, Maddie. Fun times. Yeah, fun times. See you both next week.

See you next week. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll head over to Maximumfund.org slash join and consider becoming a member.

Doing so helps support us and gets you access to an exclusive Triple Click episode each month. Find us online at triple clickpodcast.com, on Twitter at Triple ClickPod, and send email to Triple Click at Maximum Fun. Thank you for listening. See you next time. Maximum fun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned.

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