Triple Click - Triple Play: Final Fantasy XVI

Episode Date: July 6, 2023

Jason, Maddy, and Kirk strap in their Torgals and take a wild ride to Valisthea to talk about Final Fantasy XVI, the latest RPG from Square Enix. How does the new combat hold up? What's the deal with the story? And does it feel like a Final Fantasy game? All those questions answered... and much more.One More Thing:Kirk: Ghost Trick: Phantom DetectiveMaddy: Boston Strangler (2023) (Hulu)Jason: Everybody Knows (Jordan Harper)LINKS:Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy Triple Click Merch: https://maxfunstore.com/search?q=triple+click&options%5Bprefix%5D=lastJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Final fantasy games have three things in common. They all have crystals. They all have a guy named Sid, and they all have fans arguing over whether they're really Final Fantasy. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games to you. Today we are talking about Final Fantasy 16, the latest entry in the Venerable series from Square Enix. Let's get into it.

Let's talk about this game. I'm Jason Shrier. I'm Kirk Hamilton. And I'm Maddie Myers. Hello. Hey. Hello, my friends. Us again.

I was just driving my daughter home from camp about an hour ago. By the way, it's 87 degrees here. It's brutal. 87 degrees. But I'm taking my daughter home and I see on the drive home like on my street a car with a bumper sticker that says Elon. And I like have this reaction. I'm like, oh my God. Like I have this like visceral reaction of disgust deep inside of me.

I'm like, what the fuck? And then I think about it for a second. I'm like, wait a minute. Elon University. Oh, there's other things called Elon. I enjoy that it's like a sign of partisan support for Elon Musk. I got my Elon bumper stick around, so everybody knows. So everybody knows that, yeah, I'm a huge piece of shit.

So everybody knows that my daughter doesn't talk to me anymore. Used to be. It's very important distinction. Hello, welcome to another episode of Triple Quick, a show that is supported by all of you, fine listeners out there. And we hope that even more of you make this show possible. And there are two ways you can really help us out here. One is to go tell your friends to listen to Triple Click, which I'm sure you're doing every single day, like 10 times the day in the group chat. Every day. You actually don't have any friends left anymore. No matter what. So we don't need to

remind you. Yeah, there's no need to remind people of that. They're already doing it. The other thing you can do, of course, is become a maximum fun member and join the network that our podcast is on. Help us make this show possible by giving us a little bit of your hard-earned cash. And in exchange, you get not only that warm, fuzzy feeling that I talk about all the time, you know the one where you're like, yeah, know why. I'm making sure that Kirk and Jason and Maddie can keep making this show. But also, you get bonus episodes. We do a new one every single month, a new bonus episode every single month. We just ran one on the TV show Succession. That's a fun one. That's a fun conversation and a fun bonus episode. And we have got lots and lots more

in the archive and more coming every single month. So do yourself a favor. Go to maximum fun. org slash join and become a member today. One more quick thing before we start. We are starting to play StarCraft 2 as discussed for the predictions about this year. We are going to play a little bit of the multiplayer. And we're also going to play probably the first few missions, maybe the first half, of the Legacy of the Void campaign. So if you want to play along with us, we're going to be talking about that in two weeks on the July 20th episode of the show.

We'll be getting into some StarCraft 2, so I'm looking forward to that. That'll be fun. But that's not what we're talking about today. Today we are talking about the brand new Final Fantasy game. Final Fantasy 16. We all played it.

It's time for a triple play. Here we go. This is, of course, the 16th main line entry in the ongoing Final Fantasy. series that started a very long time ago. This new game is a PS5 exclusive. It is developed by Square Enix. It is an action RPG and the people behind it, both the kind of key head people,

director level people and also a lot of the ground level people also worked on Final Fantasy 14, the MMO, specifically the original Final Fantasy 14, a Realm reborn, and also the expansion, Heaven's Ward. You can see a lot of the similar. similarities between those games. Bottom Odyssey 16, we've all played it. I should say, so we've all played at least up to the second time skip. We're going to try to avoid story spoilers for the most part until a little bit later,

and we'll give you guys a fair warning. We'll say, hey, we're going to spoil the story up to that point when we say so. But in case something slips out, I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that we've played up to that point, up to the second time skip. So if you really don't want to know any of the mechanics or anything that happens up until then just hang on and wait to listen to this episode. All right, I'm going to go around. Let's all talk about where we played, what our impressions are.

Kirk, why don't you start us off? How far are you? And what do you think of Final Fantasy 16? So I've played to the second time skip. I actually just said I guess I spoiled it. So actually, no, I have a relevant point to that, though, is that we said we were going to play to the second time skip for this episode. And I played that far. and then I did keep playing, which I think says something about this game.

It sure does, doesn't it? I do have some criticisms of it. I find it narratively kind of not that compelling or just sort of confusing and a little bit inert at times. But it's also really fun and so spectacular when it really gets going. When this game gets cranking, when it reaches the high highs that it reaches, it's really delightful. I mean, I'm just sitting there laughing, not able to believe what I'm looking at. while just engaged in these unbelievable, you know, third-phase boss battles that are just like Pacific Rim style, just monster mashes. And they're really, really fun.

And the basic combat is a really good time. And I'm enjoying that about it. So I am liking playing it even while I don't really even know how to think of it. I mean, it is basically just a Devil May Cry action game. I know you can go and get side quests. Does that make this an RPG? So far at least to me, and I've, you know, I'm like 15 hours in. And I'm like upgrading just because there's a new weapon I can buy every so often and it gives me a higher number.

But I'm not, there's no third thing, I suppose. And that's kind of what I'm missing from this game is that sense of like some third thing. It could be like branching narrative or it could be puzzles or it could be, I don't know, something else. And even in a game like Diablo 4, which we were just playing, there is a third thing in that you, there's like build crafting and there's a lot of kind of technical stuff. stuff to get into, and I'm not really finding that at least as far as I am, which feels fairly far. So the game does feel very limited to me. It is just combat and then cutscenes and then combat and then some side quests if you want to do them, which just involve combat. But the combat's really fun and I am enjoying it so far.

There are a couple more things that I'll pop up. There's monster hunting. There's some of the side quests. Yeah, I mean the side quests are mostly just combat. But you just go fight stuff. There's no like third mechanical thing. Well, that's, yeah, that's one of the things that I think the other Final Fantasy games have had in spades, which is lots of mechanics, I suppose, if you think of a third mechanic, maybe it's the icon battles or like an extra mechanic in addition

to the normal... Guys, what about the act of time lore? That's the third mechanic. It's reading. Let me read, actually, but I know, Maddie, I want to hear what you think and Jason as well. But here is a paragraph from a review I wrote. A review you wrote?

You wrote this? From a review that I wrote. Alas, eye popping graphics, a cool battle system don't automatically provide a great gaming experience. Some third element, be it a collection of mini-games, deeper side-questing, meaningful choice, more exploration, something else is needed to sustain a game like this for 60 hours of play. When all is said and done, Final Fantasy 13 feels unbalanced and strangely unfinished like a beautifully constructed, lustrously polished chair with only two legs. I like this game more than 13, but it does feel very much like 13 to me. You did go back and find your review. Because you

You remembered. You thought that. I was like, it's missing a third thing. I was like, wait, I think I actually said this exact same thing about 13. And I had that thought a lot. I was like, this reminds me of 13. Not in a bad way. I like the combat more in this than 13s, but it's got that same feeling of just like a tube that you go down. And then there's cutscenes on the tube.

Maddie, what are your thoughts? I agree very strongly with almost everything Kirk said. But let me see if I can say it in the Maddie Myers way. So I'm... That's what the people want to hear. The second time skip as well. I only have time to play. A fourth thing is the Maddie Larry's way. A little bit more past that. I feel like the story's really simple, but the parts of it that I don't understand are almost entirely related to proper nouns. And for that, there's always active time lore folks. And I sure have been reading it. So there's something to be said for that. I really love the combat. I think it's incredibly fun. It is exactly my shit. of combat design. Like, it is so in my wheelhouse that I'm like, I might beat this game despite

really not caring about any of these people that much. And the more time goes on, the more I'm like, Clive, who are you? And why are you like this? And why must I hear you talk so much about Joshua and what is or isn't happening to him? But yeah, the combat's so freaking good. It also kind of reminds me of the combat in Bayoneta 3, which is a game that similarly the story really started to fall apart, in my opinion. And by the end, I was like, this has lost me. But it had so much cool fighting mechanics, so many cool fighting mechanics and so many cool boss battles. And the part that really reminds me of Bayonetta 3 is that they included these kind of kaiju battles between the big acons. And there'll be like really simplified versions of the combat for just,

those big kaiju scenes and you like move really slow and you just get to see these really cinematic things. There's like occasional quick time events, but I would almost not even call them that because they give you a really long time to hit the button and they call it like a cinematic stab or like a cinematic evade. Like they just fully admit to you that it's purely for the cinema of it all, whatever cinema means in video games. And that that is so fun to just have just pure frosting, like no cake, just frosting, just gooey, delicious frosting in a kaiju battle. It's great. So I don't know.

I don't know if I'm really going to beat the game, but I'm loving it. So after the second time skip, at some point soon, you will access, you will gain access to your character named Vivian, who... I just met her. Okay. So I was very confused. She showed me a big map. So I was very confused about the story and the proper nouns until I went through all of

her. So she has like you can run through the entire story of the game with her. And she, her doing that and showing it all visually and actually understanding that like, oh, yeah, when they say crystalline dominion, they're talking about a specific city and not like the entire region. Yeah. This version of Switzerland. We're not just talking about the whole world of final fantasy, which you might say is a crystalline dominion.

Exactly. Which makes it incredibly confusing. At least for me it did. That helps me understand what was going on was seeing her explaining. all the armies moving. And I, I went through every single one and was like, oh,

okay, that's what happened to you. I'm going to need to do that. Because I only, I was like playing right up until we were recording. And I was like just barely looking through those many,

many pages of, of headshots of every character. And they show them all to you. At each age, they've been so far. And I was like, oh, cool, cool, cool. Look at this family tree,

how they're all connected to Clive. This game might be a series of wikis. I don't know that that's a bad thing. So what I think is really interesting about this game and I finished it as I mentioned last week I finished it a couple weeks ago I think there are two things that it really has going for it really strongly

one is the combat which we've talked about combat rules there's all sorts of combinations we can get into it more specifically we will we will we will but the other thing that I think it really just is incredible at doing is cutscenes in general the production values the voice acting the staging the cinematography it's all incredibly well done

possibly so definitely some of the best I've seen in a video game as far as the actual cutscene work. Now, what's going on in those cutscenes is another story. And a lot of it is kind of incomprehensible. Well, so later on, and you haven't even, you guys haven't even gotten to the bad part yet. That's what's really astonishing is that like, so I think there are parts where it really hits its stride and it really feels cool and the voice acting and the performances and the stagework of it all really sells you on it and gets you emotionally invested. It's just that like, you guys have met Ultima. Ultima, As he, his, as you meet him more and, like, find out what his deal is, you will, at least I, speaking

personally, I got even angry here. And by the end, I was left so unsatisfied by the entire story because of him. He is, like, one of the worst villains we've ever seen in a Final Fantasy game. And this is a series known for really good villains. So I think that, like, this is a type of game where because the cutscenes are presented so well, it's very easy to get lost in them and be like, wow, this is really cool. like look at the way these these people are moving on the stage look at their faces look at the music and the the voice acting and the voice acting ben star who plays clive is fantastic

fantastic um big fan of triple click so maybe maybe we'll get them on the show some time and and the direction really the voice direction deserves some some kudos too because that often plays a big role but all the performances i mean ralph linensin is sid and like oh all the voices are incredible um i think that can kind of mask some of the story problems um and it's certainly did for me while I was playing it for a while, because it's just so well done. Yeah, let me give a little bit of my thoughts, I guess, on the story itself. I'm not finding it hard to follow, actually. I'm finding it very easy to follow, which I appreciate. This is more than easier to follow than most Final Fantasy games in the first few hours. Especially if we're

comparing it to Final Fantasy 13, which I'm still not sure I understand. Or 15, for that matter, or even 14. I mean, a lot of them throw you into a very complicated Final Fantasy-ish world. It might just be the entry point of this being so similar to Game of Thrones. And so then it has that Western fantasy sort of European kingdoms feeling, which then I sort of innately understand from reading a lot of Western fantasy. But also it's just possible to follow it, even without the active time lore. I'm just sort of, I was like, okay, I am aware of what is happening in this story. I know the stakes.

I know the protagonist. I know what's motivating him for a significant period of time. And our friend Chris Plant, when he was talking about this on The Besties, mentioned something that I really related to. He talked about a snowball effect that happens with games like this where you miss one little bit of lore or like one reason that something just happened. And then you're kind of like the next time someone starts talking about something, you sort of are already a little bit lost and then you just start to kind of lose your

grasp entirely. And then within a few hours, it's like stuff is happening and you really are like, wait, I can't remember why any of this is happening at all. And I really related to that. And I have not felt that with this game. which I appreciate. Okay, that's good. The problem for me is that the actual characters are really, really thin and kind of bland.

Like, I'm just, I'm not finding a lot of character or anything to really hold on to in terms of who these people are and what they want. Like, I understand that Clive is anguished over what happened to his brother and that he's seeking revenge. And I do think, I think Ben Starr is just fantastic, these anguished scenes where he has to scream out. Holy cow. He's really good. But, like, that's kind of it. That's all I've really got. Like you mentioned, the Lorath voice actor, what's his name?

Who plays Sid? Ralph Finisett, yeah. Ralph Finisett is fantastic. He's a great voice and, like, you know, lends the character a lot of gravitas. But Sid is actually not that well defined as a character. And he winds up being, like, he has this, like, really revolutionary plan that everyone kind of just goes with because he has some theory. Because he's such a sexy bad boy. What are you not getting about that?

seen him? Look at that lineup. Look at that beautiful five o'clock shadow. He touches it up every day. Yeah, it's really his voice. I think the character design is fine, but it's really the voice. Most of the character designs actually don't do much for me in this game. Yeah, I know. But he like has this theory, and then everyone's just like, oh, yeah, why didn't anyone think of this before? Sure, that makes sense. And then they all just go on this radical plan. And it just is all very thin. And then there's Jill, who's the other main character,

who is literally not a character. Nothingness. Genuinely. I almost feel like she was added to scenes after the fact. She is just sitting there while Clive reacts and makes decisions and she has absolutely no personhood. So the fact that the characters are missing means that it's cool that I can keep track of what's going on.

I like the world. I think it's really interesting that there are these kingdoms and each kingdom has sort of one at least person who can control these icons, which are basically giant weapons of mass destruction. Giant Kaiju's, yes. And suddenly there's a huge warrior destroying the battlefield. Like that's a really cool thing. And they're all really distinct looking.

And you can kind of be like, okay, that kingdom is the one with, you know, this guy. And you kind of know him from, you know, past Final Fantasy games. Yeah, like, you know, there's Shiva and the Phoenix and Bahamut and, you know, those guys. Yeah. So anyways, I am just missing the core of character at the center of it. And as a result, I'm cruising through it because I really, really like the combat. which maybe we should talk about some, unless you guys have more thoughts

about those sort of general characters. Yeah, I want to share a few more general thoughts. Please do. I think as someone who's finished the game, sadly, Jill's entire character arc is just to change Clive. Like, she exists to serve Clive. So you will not be,

you'll not be pleased with her. Does she ever become more of a person? Like, do you ever find out who even she is or like, what, like anything about it? Does she, like, express a desire or like a character trait? Well, she desires to make Clive a better person. That doesn't count.

Desiring to not show any character traits is not a desire. The answer is it's very disappointing the way this game treats women in general. Could she have been replaced by a very sparkly bobble? And would that have worked just as well? Well, she could have been like a gem, a gem that cast Shiva. So a couple more things that I think are worth talking about. And then I will, and then we will get into the combat. that. First of all, Kirk, to your point about wanting a third thing, I think that's an

interesting way of looking at it. I think that like a third thing wouldn't have been necessary if there were more interesting decisions to be made outside of the main thing. And so I think the combat, or sorry, I think the the gear system and the crafting and the buying stuff at a store is just so boring that it shouldn't even be in there. It's so similar. This is kind of what I'm saying related to Diablo 4. Like that's the third thing in Diablo 4 is you have all these decisions to make about your character build. Those aren't in FF16. You can make decisions. Yeah. And so typically, I mean, like in an RPG and kind of the typical rhythm of a JRP, you get to a new town. There's new gear to find. You can upgrade your gear. Or in some RPGs, it's like your main store gets a new

upgrade every so often between store emissions. But there are decisions to be made there. You can decide either your resources are limited. So like the gold you're getting is pretty like a squaw. Like, you're not getting that much in the first place. So you have to make a decision. Do I want to upgrade my armor or weapons here. What do I want to do here? Or you're given interesting decisions. Do I want this armor that does fire damage, but it does less? Do I want this, this weapon that doesn't have any elemental damage? Or do I want this armor that protects me against some status effect? You're making decisions. And this year and you're crafting a party in a lot of those things. You have a party and you're figuring out how to put your party together and who to

specialize. Yeah, that's the other important part of this. Yeah, is that it's not just one dude. And I think that that is severely lacking in this game. And it's just like an action game whose developers, I guess, felt like that people would be mad at them if they didn't include an item system and a gear system. It feels like a devil may cry game, not a bad thing, but very, very different from a mobile playing game. Or a bayonetta, very similar to the amount of RPG that's in a bayonetta, which is almost none, because that's not the point. It's weird to not have status effects in a Final Fantasy game.

And there's like, so the enemy you fight at the very beginning of the game, the mobile is like, known in Final Fantasy games for this attack bad breath that does all these status effects. It gives you poison and blind and petrify and all this stuff. And in this game, it doesn't, which is so weird. It's just very strange for Final Fantasy game. It's striking given that you unlock elemental attacks. So you have shock and fire and all of these different attacks. But they don't actually do.

Right. And then there's no elements. They don't do anything. Like you don't need water to defeat fire, for example. There's no Pokemon of it all. Not only that. Yeah, it has no impact. Which is weird in a game where you're,

You're basically Avatar the Last Airbender and you keep collecting all these different powers. Yeah, it's super weird. You just get more powerful, which is fun. Yeah, you just get more powerful. You just get different sparkly attacks. Does it matter if you attack a guy with wind powers versus electric powers? No, but it looks cool. You're in the volcano and you just do fire damage to everybody.

It doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah. The one thing in combat, I think, strategically, that I do think about is stagger versus versus health damage. So are we, let's talk about the combat. Let's get it. Yeah.

The way it works generally is you kind of, you're flying around. I think the coolest thing this game does is the first move it gives you is this warp ability where you hit a button and you just zoom across the battlefield straight from Final Fantasy 15.

Let's give some credit to 15 for coming up in that. Yeah, though 15's combat. I never jelled with. So it's just a warp, straightforward. And you can use it an infinite number of times. So it's just a very, easy way to get to your next target and to just keep attacking, which is very fun.

And you start out with fire powers and then those get more and more enhanced and then soon you get wind powers, then you can switch between the two, then you get electrical powers and I'm assuming you get all the other ones after this. So right, you are really Aang, you are learning to master the elements, though I think there are more than just the four. And yeah, you really fly around and just try to chain combos. And it's the same thing where it's mostly melee attacks. You have some ranged attacks, but those aren't really the main thing.

you can kind of use them to continue a combo. But because you're warping around and hitting people with your sword, that's really what you're doing. And you're mainly just using a sword. Like it's not like even God of War where you're switching weapons. You're more just switching the type of attack that you have. And then the one consideration, like the strategic consideration in combat, especially with bigger enemies, is their poise or their stagger gauge, which is, you know, was in 13, was in 14. There's always a stagger gauge in Final Fantasy. You're trying to lower it to a certain point eventually now, or at least where I am, my wind power.

lets me get them halfway, and then I can get a kind of mini stagger off on them if I, like, switch to the special ability and the wind power. So I'm kind of always thinking. Like, it is a really fun combat system because you're always looking at your enemy, thinking about where their stagger is at, where their health is at. You're looking at your cool downs for your big abilities, because once you stagger them, you do way more damage with every attack. So you kind of want to save a few of your big mega damage attacks for when they're staggered. Then also, you eventually get a limit break, which is basically just rage mode from God of War. sort of that kind of thing, like you catch on fire and start doing way faster, way more attacks.

You can parry, but it's a little more about the active dodge, where when you dodge, you kind of get a really free, cool attack on them. And it has a great flow. I really find it to be a super fun action combat system. Full stop. Not role-playing game. Just a fun action game. And I do really enjoy that. And I will say one other thing, and that is I wish the performance mode on this game was a little bit better. The 60 frames per second mode on PS5. It's a lot. It's a It's pretty solid in combat. It seems like they really prioritized making it smooth in combat. But outside of combat, it's like really kind of juttery.

Like it's all over the place. It's not stuck at 60. And at 30 frames per second, I don't like playing this game. This will be different for everybody. But I just find it to be like this motion blurred mess. I really have a hard time keeping track of what's going on. So I need to play it at a higher frame rate. And that just makes me think I might like this game better, I guess, on PC.

But it's disappointing that PS5 is so powerful and they couldn't just get it. to lock at 60 frames per second because this combat really does work at a high frame rate. I mean, it feels like near Devil May Cry, Bayoneta, all 60 frames per second games. Yeah, there's also that awful motion blur that like wound up making me feel nauseous every time I played the game for extended session. Yeah, that's more of an issue at 30 for me is that motion blur is really pronounced. But yeah, it's too bad. It's bad in performance mode too.

At least it was for me when you're moving the camera around a lot. Yeah, I think combat is really good too. and you wind up unlocking even more icons, as you guys alluded to. You guessed correctly, you do wind up getting more powers as the game goes on. And that winds up being your kind of like,

I don't know, your kind of carrot for continuing to play because you're not getting any interesting gear. You're not getting any other interesting RPG mechanics. But there is that feeling of like, okay, cool, I keep going. I'm going to get the next icon unlock. And there are some really cool ones.

I won't get into specifics because we'll stick up to the point, the stopping point that we talked about. But even, yeah, even at the point you guys are out, there's a lot of cool stuff you can do, that feeling of juggling all the abilities. And it feels like once you've gotten to three total icons, you really have just enough that you're constantly juggling. You're never really that board. You're never really just smashing the, the attack button, which by the way, I switched it to R1 and then dodged to

circle, which I found. Same. Well, my thumb has just been really suffering. The older I get, like playing Diablo really kind of messed my thumb up and I'm increasing. I just can't do this like mashing the square button over and over again. Yeah, the square, yeah, square, it's R1 feels so much better. Since playing Souls games, I just feel that way. And yeah, I really like it. I really like the rhythm that it gives you. I really like the way it looks and it feels.

And I feel like we've already seen some fun YouTube videos of people like destroying enemies that are way higher level than them by just jumping on top of them and beating them up, which is a really cool feeling. That part is so fun. Like I can't even think if it's ever been in a final. fantasy game that there's specific combos that they recommend. Like in my mind, that's like a DMC and Bayonetta thing that I always really enjoy. And this is not a tip that's going to work for you to because I guess you change your controls. But my personal favorite combo to do is when you press

circle and then square really quickly and then whatever other attacks you want to do, like an ability, if you press them like right in a row or I'll just slide my thumb over, you do a jump in. I think it's called like charge or something like that. And it's just another movement ability. Yeah. On our scheme, it's R1. Yeah. You have to hit both triggers.

It's a little awkward. Yeah, it's so fun. And when you're in the air, you can do like a Donkey Kong pound downward. That's really, really good. And like, just chaining between those and the different abilities is so satisfying. Like, once I discovered that, I was like, oh, my movement capabilities are huge now. because between that charge move and then the Phoenix dodge that already comes with your fire set, you can just constantly be zipping around way more and then also chaining between those attacks.

I don't know. It feels like a million bucks. Like there were at least a few perfects that I got that I was like, I feel so good about myself right now for defeating this dude. And like, I don't know. I don't usually get that feeling to Final Fantasy and it was really fun. I also really like the blade charge. if you hold down the attack button,

your blade engulfs and flames and you do way more damage on your next attack. But what's very cool about it, and what's cool about it is that it holds no matter what else you're doing, and especially playing with R1 as my attack, I'll do a four-attack combo, and I've learned now to on the fourth

attack, you just hold down the button after attacking, then begin dodging and flying around and whatever, and his blade just catches fire and stays on fire until you release it for the next attack. So you can kind of, it really fold, into the combo system very well. It isn't like you have to do it and then just stand there and wait and use it.

You can kind of hold it in reserve while you fly around, which is really cool. And you can heal it anytime too. Like you can just press the downing a potion button as Clive is zipping around madly. And that's pretty easy too. Like it just works. So that actually I think is a downside because if there's one problem in the combat system, it's that this game is way too easy. Yes.

I did not die a lot. even especially the icon battles because there's no real decision making in the icon battles you're just kind of following their script they're just splash yeah and they just wind up feeling super easy there are some awesome moments of course and man yeah they're more like big cinematic moments right yeah yeah yeah yeah but there is a lot of you do spend a lot of time actually fighting in those cinematic moments so it winds up being a little like it just goes on and on and on yeah well so there's one man there you guys are in for a treat if you keep playing because there's one icon I think that is the kind of the peak of the game and it's all really downhill from there. But there's one icon fight that is just tremendous and I won't say anything about it. You should tell us off the air so we know where to stop playing the game.

Well, it sounds like Kirk might keep playing the whole thing. I think I will. I mean, I might play it again on PC to get that kind of higher frame rate experience and just play it again when that comes out. Because I did go back to Zelda and I was like, oh yeah, right, this is one of the best games I've ever played. I was like, well, I kind of want to

beat Zelda. It's a problem. The timing is, you know, You know, that's not really this game's fault. It's still very fun. But we should say, I want to say a little bit more about that outrageous drama, cinematic, like, the heights that these battles reach. I really, I wasn't totally expecting it. And it is some bodacious shit.

I mean, which one are you talking about? Yeah. So the first time, I'll say, I'll be vague for a second longer, and then we can get into the specifics. Vaguely, I will just say, I was cackling with delight many, many times playing this. game. It kind of has like an act structure where you usually start and then you kind of, you know, it kind of builds and builds until there's a huge, ridiculous moment where like Clive is like, and now I will reach my true power. And he like ignites and it goes full anime. And it's like, like another person says that and they have a power and it's crazy. And it gets even bigger and

then he kills the bad guy. But then it's not really dead. It's even bigger. And then he becomes bigger. And like by the end of the thing, you're just like, oh my God. It is Dragon Ball Z. Yes. And it really like the production quality on some of these cutscenes. They're basically interactive cutscenes. It's crazy. Like it looks so awesome on a big TV. It's just like monster match. Like huge Pacific Rim just like

and like it's like suplexes and like it really is like wrestling. Like it really is like an old kaiju fight. And it has a sort of grandiosity and a goofiness that actually God of War used to have and kind of doesn't anymore. And it fills that. It scratches that itch for me. But DMC and Bayanetta

still super dude. That is very true. Yes. That same feeling of like watching gods just clobber each other on screen while epic epic music plays and it's very cool you guys can see why my initial reaction to this was wow a lot of reviews are going to misuse the wood bombastic i definitely can see that um so yeah let's give a spoiler warning now okay let's do a spoiler warning so we're going to get into the story up to the second time skip so if you haven't gotten there tune out and come back later yeah and i'll i'll remember to do this i'll put in a timestamp for you to skip to for one more thing

because this is the last, it'll be spoilers from here and out until one more thing. So here's where I'm going to say it. I'm going to say the timestamp for one more thing right here. Bing! All right, one more thing takes place at 48 minutes and 46 seconds. And Jason and Maddie do kind of get right into the spoilers.

That immediately, but pretty quickly. So I'm going to drag this out for a little while just to really give everybody time to skip forward if they want to. And the timestamp that they are going to skip forward to is 48 minutes and 46 seconds. Okay, ready? Back to the show.

Bing! So I think, okay, so Maddie, so off the air, you were complaining a little bit. I think both of you were pointing out that like the game is trying to hint at or trying to make you trying to obfuscate whether Josh was alive and whether Clive was different and these other things. I would say that's the first thing it tries to obfuscate is whether Clive is Iffrit. You don't think it's trying to? So I don't think it's trying to. I actually think that it's the type of story where, like, you, the audience are meant to know both of those things.

Both the Joshua is alive and the clive was different. And you're just watching the characters find out. That was my read on it. So I didn't really think it was like, because it was. They set up music stings. And like when when Joshua removes his hood and they do like a big zoom in on his face. Yeah, it's still meant to be a reveal. Like you know it's him.

So. Well, but I don't think that it's like supposed to be a huge. surprise that a guy who's named the Phoenix is like coming back from the grave, the presuming I have that in my notes. I thought that was kind of funny that he's like, the Phoenix dies. And Clyde was like, well, I guess he's dead forever. We never found a body. You know what they say about Phoenixes is, is once they're dead. And everyone is. Everyone's like, it's so crazy how the Phoenix is dead. Again, no one's read an X-Men comic in this universe. Yeah, I don't, I mean, or I, that's not really, I don't know if I was complaining about that. Let's,

It's not really a thing I feel. Maybe it was just Maddie. It was me. Kirk, what's your complaint? Well, my issue is, it's not an issue. It's just a thing I keep noticing that I think is strange about the storytelling. It's not whether or not people know one thing or another thing. It's the fact that they don't acknowledge things that have happened to them.

Specifically, Clive keeps not acknowledging the fact that he is absorbing icon powers from other icons. And, like, that to me is strange. It repeats the beat of, is Joshua alive? Like, I killed Joshua. Am I, Ifrit, what's going on? Like, that kind of happens a couple too many times where it feels like he's still dealing with that. And he's not talking about the fact that he, like, sucked Benedict's powers out of her and, like, now has that power. Wow, this, like, mysterious voice said to him, ah, yes, you're waking up.

There you are. Awaking your power. It seems in that it is very clear to me what's going on because these are all familiar fantasy tropes. But also, that stuff did happen to close. and he is sitting there switching between fire and wind powers in a way that no one in this world apparently ever has, and yet he's not talking about it. So that to me just there are times. But neither is anyone else. Like a lot of other characters are present for some of these interactions like Jill and Sid and none of them are like, hey, so it was pretty crazy when that big guy came out of a wormhole and said you were faded to like have a destiny or whatever.

What was up with that? And that just doesn't really come up for these characters. So it just makes it all feel a little bit disconnected. It's not the biggest deal in the world, but it just makes it. It's like moving across some parallel axes narratively that aren't intersecting with one another. And then that kind of makes me question the direction that we're heading in because it seems like they're resolving one plot arc while actually another plot arc already happened and is in motion, but no one is actually dealing with it. And it makes the characters feel more confused, I suppose, which is kind of underlines the thing I was saying earlier where I don't really relate to these people. It also seems almost as though I'm not experiencing the same reality as them at times.

And given that they're already so thinly written, I'm like, really, I'm finding something lacking with the characters in general. I don't even think we're sharing the same experience sometimes. But the cutscenes are just so beautiful. They really are. I think that I really think this is the type of game where like I think, at least for me personally, I think there are games where like the incredible production values can just mask and make it feel like you're on this roller coaster. your ride where you're not even thinking about like, wait a minute, why is this happening? Wait a minute. That works half the time. Yeah. So for me, in part because I was marathoning the game to try to get it done before it

came out, because I was playing an early copy. But for me, I was not really thinking about a lot of these holes until later on. So yeah, it's interesting to hear you that you're poking holes in the story already. Well, I mean, I'm marathoning it too. And like, I would say the production values, the incredible visuals, that works half the time. Like when the game is, is doing those high highs when it's monster fights and think the score is going out of control. I should say, Masayoshi Soken, the composer who did a lot of work on FF14, the composer for this. It's the victories sing that da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's like that choir.

Yeah, it's amazing. The whole battle music is just really great. When the music is really kicking, when the whole thing is blowing up, yeah. At those times, I'm like, this is fine, this is all I need. It's just that when it slows down, the cutscenes do look really nice, like when they're doing the fully directed thing with the voice, you know, the performance capture. But at that point, I just feel like I'm watching TV. And I've watched TV, like fantasy TV, where like the characters are interesting and I'm much more drawn in. And I do, I find myself missing that in those moments.

I'm in the same boat. And I think the comparisons to Game of Thrones really do this game a disservice. Like almost if they hadn't had so much of that in the. there, it would help the game more. And by that, I mean, if they didn't literally have, like, John Snow's pet wolf in the game as a character who follows you around and, like, Jill has the same backstory as Theon. Like, we talked about this on last week's episode, like just literal tropes, tropes on tropes, which those tropes are really fun, but part of what makes them work in Game of Thrones, and I'm really sorry to get on my little Game of Thrones, Stan's soapbox here because who cares?

But the game is asking me to, so I will do it. In Game of Thrones, part of why those tropes so fun is that George R. Martin specifically subverts them time and time again and makes those characters complicated in ways you don't expect. And he does it very intentionally. Like part of why those deaths on Game of Thrones are so surprising or, you know, whatever we want to talk about, the rape scenes, the violence, the blood and gore and bodily fluids. Like part of why all that works in the context of that show is that usually it's characters you don't expect to hook up or you don't expect to die. And it's the hero suddenly falls from grace and you're like, wait, what? And now this anti-hero has to do some shit.

That's why it works. In this game, it's actually not ever subversive in any way, or at least not yet. Jason, you can tell us if it is. But I'd like it if it had a little more meat on any bone at any point, but it just kind of doesn't. You know? I think that the stabs specifically at like sexual content, like at maturity actually. The sex position is so flat. And it's, it really, it kind of makes the game seem more immature because,

There isn't really any actual sex in any meaningful way. Well, because they're afraid to show any nipples or dongs. Like, just straight up. There's like Austin Powers bedpost in front of each nipple in those. And you know what? I get it. But like, I don't know. You commit or don't.

Well, it's that. And it just seems as though they don't want to depict people actually making physical context is the sense that I get in a lot of these scenes. Yeah. Like for technical reasons? I think that that's because that's very hard to do. Technically, it's just hard to depict people kissing because that is. is like technically hard.

So there's a lot of like faces kind of coming close to one another as like, I'm thinking of Benedict's scenes early on. Yes, yes, yes. But then also this is just a world that seems very sexless. Like it does seem like a Final Fantasyish world. But right, I know. But like this is, they're trying to do the Game of Thrones thing. But this does not seem like a world where anybody ever has had sex.

And specifically. Or is motivated by it or has an important sexual relationship that makes them do dumb things as happens on Game of Thrones. Yeah. Okay. yes, all of that. But no, I mean, literally these people have never had sex. Like, Jill and Clive are, like, besties. They're clearly, like, sort of attracted to one another. They're both really good-looking people. They have been touring the world, just the two of them, for years now.

After the second time, jump, five years. And, like, maybe at some point this will be alluded to, but it's never even mentioned whether they've, like, hooked up at all. And it seems like, I don't know, in a more mature version of this game, it would make less of a little. big deal out of that, but it would just be like, I don't know, part of the story is that they have some complicated, like, on again, off again, sexual relationship. And like, that's not in it at all because it actually is this like weirdly plastic coated world that is still like being like, everybody says fuck all the time and like, look, this person has side boob. And so it just kind of feels like it's trying to have it both ways and it's succeeding it neither. Yeah. So, yeah,

I won't get into what happens after the second time skip, of course, but I will say that The things that strike me about how about the story's problems are one, first and foremost, how it treats women, how it treats Jill, how it treats Benedicta, which you guys have seen because it's not like Benedicta comes back. I was legit disappointed that she dies. I was like, I think she's a fun, campy, sexy villainess. I was ready for her to be in the mix. Super fun. Yeah, man. So when I saw that like, oh, she's sleeping with Barnabas and Kupka, hello, what's going to happen there?

That could be really interesting. She's using sex as power. like how is that going to play out? Literally nothing. It just goes nowhere. She just dies and like she's the first character to be killed. Jill's character arc, again, I won't get into specifics, but look, literally she has nothing. It does not get better.

Like she exists to serve Clive and to make him transform, to make, to change him, to make his arc continue. It's really disappointing. And that to me was the thing that really stood out to me. There's also the whole weird race thing where like they talked about how they only have white characters, which because they wanted to create an authentic Europe which like well and that this is a game about enslaved people like rising up and claiming their freedom well that's I mean yeah that's a whole another like but even straight up if you're like you know we're only doing rich nobility in Europe so we're only going to be white okay that's one thing but then you go to a freaking middle

eastern like town like country where everyone's clearly it's clearly africa inspired and everybody's just white and like a little tan super weird Super disappointing. Yeah, I think you make some good points about the plasticity of it all. I don't know if I ever really expected it to go. I don't know. I guess I kind of like was taking it for what it's worth like on face value and being like, look, let's see how this politics thing plays out. There's some interesting kind of betrayals and warfare stuff here. And then that got really disappointing. And you guys are, where you're in for a treat with the spectacle I mentioned before, you're in for less of a treat. I do kind of want to look up what happens now if I don't play it. Well, you'll decide if you want to play it. One quick thing we should end. There's been a lot of talk about Final Fantasy. What is Final Fantasy anymore?

Is this really feel like a Final Fantasy game? I happen to think that it feels very much like a Final Fantasy game. In fact, it feels a little too much. It feels like they're stuffing too many Final Fantasy references into the thing all over the place. But it also is missing some things that I really love about Final Fantasy, specifically it takes itself too seriously and there isn't a lot of levity there isn't a lot of just kind of that fun weirdness that I think might even help it I think Kirk I think what works in final fantasy for me play a game like final fantasy six that might also not feel like a game that people are

having sex in or like that there is any kind of anything below the surface too much but it also has that kind of Saturday morning cartoon feel which I think helps make it feel a little more totally consistent. Right, that's not trying to to feel that way. Yeah, exactly. It's not trying to be Game of Thrones. It's trying to be like an anime-inspired sort of story. And I think it makes the characters a lot more relatable and

interesting and makes you grip onto them a little bit more than like the fourth dude who is big and muscular and curses a lot that you meet on your adventures. Or like the third woman who oh, it turns out she's a prostitute. Like it's just, it's, it's

I think that is what is missing really. in this game is that kind of lightheartedness, that sense of humor that might help string it all together. It feels like it's trying to be super dark and really missing the mark there. Yeah. I would love if it was more like Hercules legendary journeys or Xena in tone as opposed to trying for Game of Thrones and then drawing the comparison that like, oh, it's not really subverting the tropes, it's not deep enough, the characters aren't really deep enough. Like, you can just be corny. You can just have a good time with some medieval fantasy tropes and some boostie As like that's okay, but don't try for GRM.

I think one thing that maybe we can close on with this game is that at least we know this isn't what Final Fantasy now is because Final Fantasy always changes, which is a very cool thing that they tried this, they did a Devil May Cry game that's also kind of like sexless Game of Thrones. Okay, like it's pretty cool. I like it. I'm going to keep playing it, even though it obviously has all these problems as well. But it's nice to know, yeah, they tried this next time.

is what they'll try. Each one is going to be really different and that is something that I have always like to continue to like about this series. Yeah, right on. Yep. Here's hoping they go a little more RPG. Even if the combat is going to be real time, I think you need a lot more. You need to feel a little more like Final Fantasy

7 remake-ish. That third thing. We haven't talked about me. So the side quest, Kirk, to your point earlier. They're fine. Yeah, I should have said that. I did a bunch of them. There are side quests. They're not fine. They're terrible. They're like MMO side quests. I was like, I literally...

Yeah, they feel like FF14. Yeah, they're straight out of FF14. There's like lots of sand. I talked about this last week. You're picking up lots of sand. That's true. I did do that one. You haven't, you still haven't gotten to the...

Excuse me, those were soil samples, but... That's true. There's more stuff like that. And you guys haven't really gotten to the really, like, pace crawling, just like the fetch quest that you have to go on between... You have these big, like, incredible spectacles, and then you just have to go and find... go buy garlic at the supermarket for someone.

So yeah, I mean, it's, it's, that stuff also isn't good. And really, it's just the combat and the production value of it all that holds up this game, I think. And for a lot of people, that's enough. Yeah, it's not enough. Yeah, it was enough to make it pretty enjoyable. Get me through the whole game. The combat is most of what you're doing.

And watching cut scenes is most of what you're doing. So if you kind of turn your mind off, you get through it. I'm very curious to see if you guys do wind of finishing. I'm very curious to see what you think of like the end turn and the final act of the game. but we'll talk about that down the road if you do finish it. For now, let's take a break and we'll be back with one more thing. What is up, people of the world? Do you have an argument that you keep having with your friends

and you just can't seem to settle it and you're sitting there arguing about whether it's Star Trek or Star Wars? Or you can't decide what is the best nut or can't agree on what is the best cheese. Stop doing that. Listen to we got this with Mark and Howl only on Max Fun. Your topics. and answered objectively, definitively, for all time. So don't worry, everybody. We got this.

We got this. They can be anywhere at your office, in your car, and they are wrong. My mom says that the Greyhouse didn't exist, but she's wrong. He just doesn't wrong. Someone in your life is wrong about something. Something small, something weird, something vitally important. Only one person has the courage to tell them just how wrong. they are. You know what you did was wrong, but your daughter is a liar who eats garbage.

They call me Judge John Hodgman. Listen to me on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. If someone in your life is doing you wrong, don't just take it. Take it to court. Submit your case at maximum fun.org slash JJHO. And we are back for one more thing. Kirk, Maddie, let's talk about what else we are doing and playing and experiencing and thinking about, Kirk, why don't you go first? Sure, I will go first. This is mostly a PSA to remind everybody that a re-release of a great game recently came out and they can finally play it or replay it. And that is Ghost Trick, Phantom Detective. It is a DS game from sort of late in the DS's run that I initially played actually on iOS in a very kind of compromised way that I don't think I can play anymore on my phone.

It's a game that I really loved when I played it, though. I had meant to to play it on DS because I knew about it because this game is written and directed by Shue Takumi, who is the creator of the Ace Attorney series, and has a kind of similar aesthetic, a similar feel despite being pretty different in a lot of ways. And it has been re-released on what PC consoles, it's on Switch, it'd be great on Switch. I've been playing it on Steam Deck. It's great on a handheld. And it's a really just delightful game.

So the way this game works is it's a story, kind of like a visual, novel mixed with a puzzle-solving game. It tells the story of Cicill, that is your character, a ghost who does not remember how he died or how he became a ghost, but finds himself in the middle of this complicated situation, his dead body

is there, there's like a guy holding a gun on a woman, and he is a ghost, and he like wakes up and is like, what's going on? And then this other ghost starts talking to him and explains that, hey, if you don't want her to die, you can freeze time and you can start to manipulate things in the environment. And if you've

seen the movie, the Patrick Swayze movie, Ghost, where he begins knocking things around in the environment and eventually, like, gets the power to sort of, you know, protect Demi Moore. That's basically what you're doing, is you're kind of moving through things in the object and, you know, knocking them around. And then eventually, because you can only possess inanimate objects, you're sort of like, you have to open an umbrella. So the umbrella falls to the floor. And then you're on the floor, which lets you be close to the phone. And then you make the phone ring, and that distracts the guy. So you're doing these kind of Rube Goldbergian puzzles. And each chapter is another person is in peril or in jeopardy, and Sissel, unbeknownst to them, is helping

save them while getting to the bottom of how he was killed and what's going on. And so there are large sort of narrative sections that play out. The whole thing is really beautifully animated. It's this wonderful, cartoony art style. The animations in particular, I remember, were very cool on the DS. Like it looks, I don't know, the way characters move. They all have these very stylish, sort of slow ways of moving. There's this detective who kind of like disco dances his way out on this,

onto the stage. It feels like a stage. There's a lot of spotlights, a lot of sort of stage craft in this game. It almost feels like you're watching a stage production. So anyways, I mean, I loved this game.

I was really surprised by how much I loved it when I played through it on my iPhone. I think the story just has a lot of heart. It really goes some surprising places. It has one of the greatest dogs in video game history. Yeah, I was waiting for you to bring a missile. Yeah, a little dog. Missile, an absolutely wonderful character.

Yeah, the hilarious pumererian. Yeah, so you still on Missile. Oranian. Sort of the id of every dog and every Pomeranian is expressed through Missile. Like, missile is one of the, like he's just always speaking in exclamations. And it's Cicill and Missal.

Yeah, exactly. A great set of names. And it is a, it is a game that without any spoilers, I will say, if you play all the way through to the end, it winds up being a really beautiful and touching story.

And I really was moved by it and loved the story in the end, which is actually something that I don't always feel about Ace Attorney. Ace Attorney will have its moments. There are times. like, oh, I really love these characters. But they usually, you know, there are a series of sort of discrete cases that sort of tie together in the end, but they never really do as much as you want them to. This one really ties together. It's maybe the best story of any of these types of Capcom narrative puzzle, whatever you want to call it in this style of game.

And I just really recommend it. I know there's a lot of other games out, but it's pretty different than everything else. And especially anyone out there who any of that sounds cool to you and you haven't played it yet, I do really recommend it because I love this game. Yeah, it's so good. I'm excited to replay it. I haven't played it since 2010, but I'm excited. Oh, man. Nice. Maddie, what's your one more thing? My one more thing is a movie called Boston Strangler, which is an amazing heroic journalist movie, which is one of my favorite genres of media. We simply love a heroic journalist.

Are you saying it's a spotlight-like? Yes, because it is also based on a true story. In Boston. Instead in Boston. Yeah, the Boston Record American, which she's a spotlight. later. Oh my god, and it has Kerry Coon in it. What bearing the league? It does. So Carrie Co-Cun is incredibly good in it and co-stars with Cura Knightley. The two of them play Bostonians. Kira tries her best Boston accident. It's actually not too bad. And they both play, Kirk looks so excited. I'm watching the trailer for this. How did I not know about this? And Chris Cooper? Oh, I'm going to, I can't wait to watch this. I loved it. We both loved it and I really enjoyed looking into the stories that the two real life women reported on about the Boston Strangler and just the case. overall, which is a pretty complicated case, the police, the BPD, good old BPD, fucked up a lot of stuff with this case, and that's a huge part of the reporting on it. I just, I don't know, I loved it,

mainly because I didn't know a ton about it and then really enjoyed learning more, but also, since it's set in the 60s and it's about two women reporters who are both married and then have to deal with, like, juggling their families and the social expectations that they would not be working on top of getting these incredible scoops about a literal freaking serial killer is just a really cool watch like a very very cool historical watch and yeah kerry coon and kira nightly two of my faves love them that's awesome highly recommended uh very very good movie i haven't seen kira nightly in anything in a long time that's awesome yeah i want to point out that so this is on hulu it is i want to point out that the fact that kirk who keeps up on pop culture

and this is designed for this is meant for has never heard of this I think the fact that Kirk Hamilton has never heard of this movie is kind of evidence of what I was talking about a few weeks ago with the WGA about how the streaming ecosystem is not going to last and how we're going to enter this world that is just a lot more condensed, a lot more like the old way of things. Because it's the fact that Hulu produced this movie that like someone like Kirk would love, but he's never even heard of it is really testament. It's really silly. And I feel like we were only marketed it because Dina watches so much true crime that is honestly way too. scary for me to actually stomach, and so it was on her Hulu, I think. But actually, this movie is not that gory. And it's mostly a journalism movie, which again, one of my favorite genres ever, especially if it's based on actual historical reporting and like how they got the story,

which cops they talked to, who they had to freaking deal with in order to solidify these leads. It's just really, really good. It's so good. And I, I'm seeing it's like just getting okay reviews. So I feel like maybe this is a movie that's just for journalists. So like, again, it's not so much like a true crime movie and the way that some people might want it to be. The reviewers are kind of journalist now, or I guess they're more film critics or whatever. So I don't know what's wrong with them. I loved it. Boston Strangler, 2023 movie.

It's on Hulu. Really, really cool movie. Okay, cool. My one more thing is a book, a fictional book called Everybody Knows by Jordan Harper. This came out earlier this year. I saw a blurb about it in the New York Times and thought, This sounds really, really good. And it was really, really good.

It is a book about Los Angeles. It's kind of an L.A. noir, so to speak, set in the modern era. So it's a very modern, an L.A. neo-nwar, one might call it. And it starts this woman named May, who is a high-profile clients, who is one of those kind of blackball publicists, meaning she does crisis management. So if you have just murdered a prostitute in your hotel room, May. is who you call and she comes and she spins it for you and she cleans it up and she uh she gets some friendly journalist like scandal like the yeah the tv show scandal is about that that type of character a fixer exactly that is exactly what it is yes um it is that type of uh and so it is about her and this character

who's really good and well well constructed and then it's also about this other dude named chris who is kind of a bodyguard mercenary type um who works for this company that is contracted by May's PR firm, among other places. And then as the story goes on, we find out that May and Chris, they knew each other in the past, they had a relationship together in the past, and they, together they call the Hollywood apparatus they call the beast. And they both work for different parts of the beast. And as the story goes on and on, there's this big murder mystery, someone dies, and you want to know who and how and why and stuff. And it all feeds into the beast and the Hollywood apparatus that they slowly entangle

and find out who's in the center of it and find out what's in the center of it and it explores power and money and sex and a lot of Me Too related stuff. And it could have, I think a story like this in the wrong hands could have been very ham-fisted and kind of really fallen flat. But this actually works really well.

It's really well done, I thought, and really compulsive to read. It's a really just well-constructed thriller, very short chapters, lots of cliffhangers, that sort of thing. But also not the type of thriller that you'll read and be like, oh, okay, on to the next thing, like a McDonald's style, like a McNuggets thriller. It's more of a thriller that will actually leave you with some interesting things to think about and like what kind of like what's the role of truth and burning everything to the ground

and what if you are helpless because you can only do so much speaking truth to power and it really will end up like just leading nowhere and how powerful like if you're rich and powerful will you ever really be held accountable. It asks a lot of these questions and I think both of you would really enjoy it. It's actually just also a very quick read. I read it in a day so really easy to get through. So yeah, highly recommend this book. Again, everybody knows it's called by Jordan Harper. That sounds like James Elroy. It sounds like Black Dahlia or LA Confidential. Have you read other of those books? No. You'd like LA Confidential. I mean that and that movie is like also very, very good. Yes, it's in the style of those kind of like Los Angeles noir's.

I watched a lot of scandal, so I feel like I owe it to myself and my media health to just read this book because it might be better. Yeah, it's good. It's a little depressing, but also ends, well, I won't say how it ends, but it's not like you're going to read this super and leave super depressed. The other interesting thing is that it's set as like Los Angeles is burning pretty much the entire time, which is kind of a fun, a fun bit. There's a lot of fun imagery there and a lot of fun exploration there. And yeah, I just really enjoyed it. Just really give back. Okay, cool. That is it for this week's episode. Kirk Maddie. I will see you both next week. Yeah, see you both next week. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier,

Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration, you can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at Maximumfund.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at Triple QuickPod, send email the triple click at maximum fun.org and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience. Audience supported.