Triple Click - Triple Play: Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury

Episode Date: February 18, 2021

Let's play Super Mario 3D World... plus Bowser's Fury! Jason, Maddy, and Kirk break down the Switch's newest Mario adventures, dive into the differences between linear and non-linear Mario games, and discuss whether or not they are all cats. Plus: Demon's Souls and much more.One More Thing:Kirk: The PS5 ExperienceMaddy: Judas and the Black MessiahJason: Murder mysteries (Moonflower Murders by Anthony Horowitz,  The Eighth Detective by Alex Pavesi)Links:Allegra Frank’s interview with Lakeith Stanfield: https://slate.com/culture/2021/02/judas-black-messiah-lakeith-stanfield-interview-joker.htmlSupport Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

The monstrous Cupa King rains down fire and terror. Only one can defeat him. Cat Mario! Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games to you. This week, we all played Super Mario 3D World in Bowser's Fury. Two very different Mario games released together on the Switch this week. Their unifying theme, Cat Mario. I'm Maddie Myers.

I'm Jason Shire. And I'm Kirk Hamilton. Hello. Hello. Hello, hello, my friends. All three of us are here. Sometimes we start the show and it's like a dare. Like I'm wondering who's going to...

We're all waiting to see you. Who's going to say something? Who's going to break the ice? Who's going to speak? Who dares speak? And you know who won't speak? Well, the tricky thing is that usually I edit it so that it sounds like we all spoke in the perfect order. And yet we don't always.

Nobody does. But continue, Maddie. Kirk, you're interrupting my perfect transition into the thing we say every week. I'm going to leave this as is just so people can see how messy this show you should. is before I edit it. Go ahead. Please. Please do. Wait, here's Future Kirk coming in to change everything. Future Kirk doesn't even need to come here. I have got this. I know everything. And one of the things that I know is that you can go to maximum fund.org slash join.

And you can become a max fund member. And if you were to do that, you would not only support the show financially and make sure that we can keep on making it, which is pretty darn cool. You also get a monthly bonus episode and access to all the previous bonus episodes and even the bonus episodes for other shows. Like, even if you're only supporting us, you also get the bonus episodes for other shows. It's a pretty good deal if you ask me. That's pretty cool. I know. So this month, we are doing a bonus episode where we spill the beans about the Mandalorian seasons one and two.

So that'll be pretty fun. That's hard. That will be very fun. I just finished it last night. Nice. Congrats. It's all fresh in Jason's mind. That finale, though, we will not speak of it here, but we will speak of it on a bonus episode.

All the beans are in the jar currently, and then they're going to be spelled later. Perfectly preserved. And Baby Yoda will not be able to access them. It's an aertight jar. No. He will not be able to get in there and steal those beans. He's not going to be popping any beans in his little cavernous mouth. He would love to, but he will not.

Anyway, we're not going to talk about the Mandalorian today. We're going to talk about a video game. All right. Well, actually, before we start, just a reminder that for those of you who are playing along with Final Fantasy 6, we'll be doing the triple play next week. And our cutoff point for that episode is the opera house. So play up to the opera house if you want to play along and listen and feel like you're part of the club. Anyway, today we are doing a triple play on Super Mario 3D World plus Bowser's Fury, which is the full title. It's like one game.

And then they added a second one and just tacked a plus on it, which is a new game from Nintendo. it's for the Switch. It is the first part of the game. The first game, Mario 3D World, is a port from the Wii U. The second part is totally new for this game. So really, they just released a brand new Mario game that you can play on your Switch. And we've all played it. Disclosure, we all got codes from Nintendo, so we could talk about it on this episode. And we have many, many thoughts. So Super Mario 3D World is an interesting game because it's probably the Mario game, or one of the Mario games that's been played by the least number of people because the Wii U was such a failure.

So first of all, I'm curious because I had played it on the Wii U. Was this the first time for both of you? I played it on the Wii U. Same. Oh, you all did. Okay. Yes. I played quite a bit of it on the Wii U.

Oh, yeah. Well, we're games journalists. We are not the typical person. And also Kirk famously got a Wii U as a console at launch that he was excited about. So I sure was. I'm sure he couldn't wait to play. Super Mario 3D world. So yeah, so Maddie, I'm just going to go around and we'll all say our thoughts, just kind of overall thoughts on the game. What are your thoughts? I guess what were your thoughts when

you first played it and what are your thoughts now going back into it? And just 3D world. We'll get into Bowser's Fury later. Of course, yeah. So my thoughts when I first played it, I played it co-op the whole way, which is an extremely difficult way to play this game. I would not recommend doing this. We beat it, but there were a lot of fights involved. It was someone I was dating several people ago. And this, I don't know, in a way, it's not a great memory because I'm remembering how difficult the game is co-op and also how difficult the game is at the very end of the game. There's some levels that get quite challenging that you should probably just play by yourself, quite frankly. I didn't beat the game in time for this show, but I do remember it gets quite hard.

but I don't know that it's actually that hard if you play it solo. And I'm playing it solo now. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is actually really fun. It's not stressful at all. But you can play four-player co-op in this game if you want to. And the other thing I remembered about it is that Mario wears a cat suit. And he's freaking adorable. I remember that the first time around.

That is the big upside of this video game. He can climb up walls or Princess Peachcan or whomever you're playing as. Or Louis G or Toad. seat, cat suit, yeah, and climb up walls and do a little, uh, scratching attack move that has a super cute animation. And it's just fun. It's a fun three-dimensional Mario video game that I liked at the time. Playing it now, I didn't remember a lot of it. So it really feels like a new Mario game. It came out several years ago and I haven't played it since. So it kind of feels like a whole new dang old Mario game. Yeah, those are my initial thoughts for now. I'm having fun playing some Mario.

Nice. Cool. Kirk, what about you? So yeah, I actually had a pretty similar experience with the first game, Maddie. Yeah, I played it through mostly in co-op in a previous relationship. It was stressful. It was, you know, and it was fine. Was it stressful for you guys because it was relationships that didn't work out? Or was it stressful because of the game? Who can say? In my case, yes. You can say, but it was, you know, it kind of flew by, I think, because of that. Like, it didn't sink in as much playing it through with another person just because we were playing together. And it's like when you're playing this game with another person, you move through the levels a lot more quickly.

It's all a little more chaotic. And for me, the delight of Mario games and especially this kind of Mario game, which I also consider 3D land to be this kind of game, is just how many new ideas there are in every level. constantly delighting you with new ideas. And when I'm playing by myself now, which I have been this time through, I'm just, I'm loving it. Like, I'm finding that I love it. Like, I did not love this game before I thought of it as a sort of odd game. And I love it now because of that, because of that feeling of constant delight and new things. I mean, it's every freaking level of this game has some weird, cool, new idea. And a lot of them are developed, like, they're developing ideas from 3D land, which was released for the 3DS, and is a fantastic game,

and was one of the first Mario games I ever really played. Like, obviously, I'd played Super Mario Bros, like the original and world, but I never had a console. And then I think I might have played one of the ones on DS when I got a DS, but... Or the Game Boy ones, maybe? Yeah, I guess, but like only a little and not, none of the 3D ones. I just had never played any of those, really. And then I played through 3D land, and I loved it.

I mean, that game is amazing. And it has a lot of those same ideas where there's like, you know, platforms that shift when you jump, for example, is one that I really love where you have to think ahead. And it becomes more of a sort of puzzle as you figure it out because you can't jump there because that floor is going to go away the minute you press the jump button. There's a lot of little clever ideas like that. And that just seemingly endless cascade. And I remember feeling a little disappointed by 3D World when I played it on the Wii U because I was sort of ready for a new, big, big. 3D Mario game. I was ready for Odyssey, basically. And I'd never played Galaxy, and I'd never played Super Mario 3D even, or Sunshine. And so at the time, I was like, I really want, like, the full

open thing where there's no timer and you can just walk around. And now I feel like I've really gotten that. Like, I played Odyssey, then I played it again. We talked about it on the show. And then I played Galaxy and love Galaxy. I mean, God, I had to, I just stopped Galaxy because I just was playing other things. But that game is, like, I want to go back to that game. It's so good. I have so much 3D Mario now that this fits in a kind of a different space. And it's so cool. Like, I just love it. It just is this relaxing, fun, whimsical journey of delight. So I'm really into it, like far more into it than I was expecting. Do you feel like the co-op in Galaxy and Odyssey is more satisfying to you, Kirk, than in this game? Because it's just interesting to me that both of us

didn't like the co-op in this particular game. I think I prefer that, well, it's a different kind of co-op, right? Like, this is designed for multiple people playing on the exact same wavelength. They all have the same moves and you're actually kind of bumping into each other and that's what makes it stressful where Galaxy, Odyssey and Bowser's Fury, which we're not talking about yet, but like all of those are designed with that kind of one person is the main player and one person is just sort of the auxiliary helper character. And I like that setup a lot and that works also because Emily doesn't play as many games. And if we're going to play co-op, it's really fun to play in that way. It's a defense who you're playing with, yeah. So it's just kind of different. It's

kind of different. But I don't love the way that you're bouncing into each other. And like that design is just, it's just kind of fundamentally stressful. Yeah, I agree. It's interesting, Kirk, that you talk about this game borrowing things from 3D land because I actually, the thing that struck me on this play through, I got to like World 3 over the past couple of days, the thing that really struck me is how much it takes from all of the previous Mario games. This feels very much like one of those. And all Mario games are self-referential. A lot of Nintendo series are. But this game, more than anything is like literally you look around at everything and and and you just see ideas from previous games, whether it's like the toad houses that give you items, which is. Yeah, I mean,

it's really, that's, I guess, more of a reflection of my limited frame of reference because I'm not a Mario expert. No, no, no, I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm saying, because there's a lot also taken from 3D land. I'm saying that that's really what stood out to me is that this game just feels like it was made. It almost feels like it was made by people who were fans of all the others of all the previous games and like wanted to stick in a ton of ideas. There's a lot of stuff in there from Galaxy. There's a lot of stuff. The concept of like the world map is like a blend of like like 3D ideas and also the

kind of straight line approach from Mario. Can we talk about the world map for a second? I love the fact and I remember loving this about the Wii U that you can walk around on the world map. Like it looks like Super Mario World's World Map but then you can just freely walk around and jump and break bricks and find stuff. And find secrets and there's like legit secrets to find. What a fun little trick.

Yeah, there's just a lot of stuff in there that is very enjoyable. Even the concept of getting to choose whether to play is Mario Luigi, Toad, or Peach, those are the four characters you can choose from in Super Mario Brothers 2 for the NES. It's like the same exact, and they all have the same traits too. Luigi can jump a little bit higher, Peach can kind of float in the air. Toad is... Toad. Toad.

Does Toad not have any special abilities in Super Mario 2? Toad is a deformed abomination I like Captain Toad Another thing that's in this game Is the planting the seeds for Captain Toad Treasure Tracker Yeah, I was going to say Captain Toad is one of the Super Innovative I mean Captain Toad Treasure Tracker is brilliant

And the reason that exists is because of this game Wonderful game on its own And Captain Toad the concept is So there are all these little mini levels On the I guess mini games I would call them On the World Map and you can go to them And you control Captain Toad And Captain Toad's gimmick is that he can't jump

So he has to solve these kind of puzzles, these kind of diorama-looking 3D environments and dodge enemies and collect things without collect stars without actually jumping, which is like you take the fundamental ability of a Mario game away, and it's very strange. But the other thing that really stood out to me about playing 3D world now is after Odyssey, it just feels very different in a lot of subtle and not so subtle ways. some of the abilities that you have in Odyssey and you have in some other 3D games, like being able to duck and then backflip to do a super high jump, you can't do in this game. Even obviously the hat throwing thing, which I was very used to. You also can't do in this game, but that was totally new for Odyssey. But there are a lot of, like, tricks.

There's kind of, we'll get into this a little bit later, but there's a fundamental line between like the quote-unquote linear Mario games and non-linear Mario games that I want to talk about. and one of those kind of distinctions between those types of games is in Mario's move set and the way that it feels to control him. In the linear games, such as this one,

the game really encourages you to go fast a lot of the times. And in fact, if you start sprinting, you'll get like this boost to speed as Mario, which doesn't happen in the non-linear games. And I think that's also really interesting and it makes the game feel very speedy and very, like, addictive

because you're finishing levels really quickly. Even if you stop to find all the green stars, all the hidden challenges and stuff, you can still finish each level and like, I mean, you have a timer, so it's going to be five minutes max. And that's a huge difference between the linear and nonlinear games. Exactly. There is a clock ticking down in the linear games. Yeah.

And it feels so different and so interesting. And yeah, I find it really fun. And it just makes you want to keep playing and playing and playing to the point where you're like, oh, wow, I just play this way too long. Yeah. So let's talk about Bowser's Fury, the companion game that comes to this, because that is the total opposite. it. So, Kirk, why do you go first? What are your thoughts on Bowser's Fear? I almost knew nothing about this game until I guess I saw some headlines about it when it came out, but I didn't know very much about it. And I think it's great. I think it's so interesting.

It's crazy to me that there's this whole other Mario game that, you know, to take the dichotomy that you just outlined, Jason, basically fills the other half of the Mario design template in this one package that you get. the fact that this also has the Captain Toad levels, like there's a crazy amount of differing Mario style gameplay just in this one game let alone if you also own the 3D collection that just came out.

There's so much good Mario to play right now. This game I think is really wild. It's to describe for people this is a non-linear, open-ended I gather not super long 3D Mario game with the same abilities and sort of general setup

as 3D world. Like there's a cat suit. I guess that's the main thing. But it's set in this world where Bowser is huge and kind of terrifying, which is pretty cool. Like he's this massive skyscraper-sized version of Bowser. And he is just raging because he's covered in this black oil. And I haven't finished it.

I'm sure there's a little story to explain why the oil is making him into a jerk. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of lore. It's going to get really deep and complex. Because I'm teamed up with Bowser Jr. and Bowser. He's an anime villain. Yeah. Right. And it's the thing where they've fought so many times that, you know, sometimes Bowser's a good guy like in paper Mario.

And here Bowser Jr. is like, come on, let's team up. You got to help me to save my dad. And Mario's like, well, I'm such a good guy. I guess I have to. So it's clear he's not himself. But he is terrifying. And he just, you're running around in the world and it's all happy. And then it starts to rain. And then, you know, Bowser's shell is spinning off in the distance because it's a big open world. And then Bowser just comes flying in and stands up. And he's this kaiju-sized bow. and he's like breathing fire and the whole world changes. The soundtrack shifts to like ultra butt rock metal. Like just total electric guitars squealing. And it becomes this like dark world thing. So it's like a light world, dark world, open world Mario game that's just fascinating and awesome. I haven't played a whole ton of it.

I like played through the first couple of areas and was like, this is so cool. This is completely different than 3D world in the best way. Well, and then what happens is you get, you have to go around collect. these items called Cat Shines, which are the equivalent of moons and Mario Odyssey. And when you get enough of them gradually throughout the game, you'll unlock these bells, which let you transform into mega-sized Cat Mario, and then you fight with Gigabowser as like a giant creature. It's like a Kaiju giant monster fight, which is super fun and incredible and hilarious.

But the real, like, highlight of the game, I think, is the open world part, like you mentioned. And there's so many little secrets and clever tricks hidden all around the game. the world, including there are actually blocks you can find. This is so clever. They're blocks you can find that have these Bowser logos on them and you need to wait for Bowser to go all dark and then destroy them with one of his fireballs or something. So you have to be hanging out where one of them, where these blocks are. And then he'll open it up for you as like a secret. Maddie, what did you think of, what have you thought of Bowser's Fury so far? I love it. I love the Bowser metal song. It makes me kind of excited for Bowser to show up even though he's

terrifying. I'm really enjoying it. I don't think I've ever played an open world Mario game that feels as open world as this one. I know that's kind of what Odyssey is purporting to do, but this one is very much like, you need to go around and collect these little cat shines and achieve the ability to unlock the super mecha cat thing, but you can collect them in any order you want, and you can just kind of bob around these islands. You ride on that little, I can't remember what its name is, but it's like that sea creature that you ride around. And it's this, that sea creature is hilarious, by the way. Like, it is always so excited to see you, even if, like, Bowser is right in front of it and like, like, fire is raining down in front of you. And you're like, oh, I got to get

this little sea creature guy. And he's like, hello, Mario. And he's just like excited. I don't know. There's something intrinsically hilarious about the juxtaposition of the super dark metal Bowser with the goofy sprightliness of Mario's world that just, even after a few hours of the game, I still find it very funny. I haven't beaten it yet, although I guess I must be close. But yeah, I'm enjoying that juxtaposition as being inherently comedic. And then also what you mentioned, Jason, the replayable puzzle aspect of it, which feels very Kirby to me in a type of way, where like you're just replaying a certain area over and over so you can collect each part of it and like investigate certain blocks or areas or whatever ability you need in order to achieve a certain

end. That kind of thing. It's very curvy, very Metroid. It really scratches a certain itch in my brain that I enjoy of like, oh, I don't know how to get to this place. It has a certain kind of block. What do I have to do to open that? I just love that. I can play that forever. It rules. It's also fairly Zelda-ish, right? Like it's, it really feels like this Nintendo Poperi a little bit or Nintendo cornucopia. Like it's a kind of a mix of design sensibilities that just doesn't quite feel Mario-ish. Like I know they've done world states, even in Odyssey, the world changes dates once you beat the boss, and then you can go back and there's new things you can do.

But having a world that's on a timer where it just kicks over to this other state that's much more dangerous, but also there's much more possibility. I mean, I'm playing Demon Souls right now, and that game does that. It's just a different type of game. And, you know, like a lot of games use things like that. Obviously, Zelda uses light world, dark world mechanics too. But even Zelda doesn't do a thing really where there's, well, I guess Majora's mask, where there's like an actually changing world that you have to wait.

Like when I'm just sitting around waiting for Bowser to come because I need to get to a high place and I know that when he comes, I'll have a limited amount of time to go up the Bowser blocks that he summons. That's just not something I've ever done in a Mario game before. And it's really cool. It is cool. So yeah, so I want to, so now that we've kind of dissected both of these, I want to talk overarching about like the two different types of Mario games, like the linear and the nonlinear. And really the nonlinear, I mean, I guess you could say that the nonlinear type of Mario

game started with Mario 64, where you could go into a whole bunch of different worlds and each of those worlds had multiple stars and you could get them in, I mean, the game would push you towards one specific direction of like it would say like go get the king babam star but you could go get a different one at the same time if you wanted to so there was that nonlinear aspect and then sunshine refined that and then um galaxy did not galaxy is actually a linear game even though it feels like a 3d open world game it's actually all of its stages are super linear um but then uh uh odyssey really just like went open world in a way that no Mario game had gone before and Bowser's Fury is the closest to Odyssey, actually, because the big trick and the big kind of

mechanic that changes everything, changed everything for a Mario game with Odyssey, was that every time you collected one of the moons, you would stay in the same world. And it wouldn't feel like, okay, end of the stage now. You exit the world, and now you can go somewhere else. You can go start again with this one, whatever, like all the previous game, 64 and Sunshine and such had done that. Odyssey is like, no, you keep exploring. And, and, and, and, And the way the Bowser's Fury does that same thing, it just gives it a different rhythm that Mario games really, until 2017, hadn't explored before. And it's super cool to see Bowser's Fury as like an innovation and kind of an iteration on that. But yeah, I find the dichotomy between these two types of Mario games fascinating.

Kirk, you look like you have thoughts on this. Yeah, I do. It comes out of the timer for me because you mentioned that Galaxy is a lot more linear than, say, Odyssey or, Super Mario 3D, and that's true, except there's a mindset that I get in when I'm playing any of these games where I can just look at a problem and spend some time screwing around and trying to fix it or solve it. And that's just a cool headspace to be in that I didn't usually associate with Mario or really with platformers of that sort of branch of the platformer tree. Like if you think of Metroid or Hollow Night or whatever, you know, as a

platformer, like, that's just a very different kind of platformer. And then I guess you get into puzzle platforms that are straight up puzzles. But I've never really thought of Mario as a puzzle game. And even though there are always puzzling, like, there are puzzle aspects to the game. And there are certainly puzzling aspects of the game, too. But there are puzzle-like aspects. So I guess it moves it more into that more cerebral place where you can slow down. And there just isn't this feeling that the game is being like, yeah, all right, like kind of tapping its foot and looking at you being like, okay, you can try to figure this out. But really, you're supposed to be. getting through this. And in 3D world, I noticed that too, where if I miss a star or something,

a lot of times you just miss it. You go flying past it. You didn't build up enough speed on your dinosaur or golden retriever. And as a result, you just sort of like fall short. And it's just telling you you have to come back and do that again next time. Yeah. Yeah, which is fine. It's just that's a different kind of a rhythm. And it's really nice that this one game has both kinds of games in it because you can get whichever you're looking for and they're both cool like it's not really like I like the the more thoughtful space but but they're both good like they're just a different they're just different and they're very complimentary really yeah yeah there's something really satisfying about like zipping through a level and mastering it and also the thing it's funny you mentioned kirby before

by the way mighty for boughsus very because the thing that is really Kirby at least the the Kirby I just played playing a robovod is that you can just zip through it. game and it's super easy, but finding the challenging things, the stars is much harder, which is very similar to the Kirby, uh, finding those computer puzzle piece things. Yeah. Although I would say Kirby's a lot more like Super Mario 3D world than Bowser's Fury. Although saying that, I, if I had to choose between them, I'm preferring Bowser's Fury. I really like the fact that there isn't a timer and that as you say, Kirk, each individual puzzle you can, you are, I am technically running it back. Like there are plenty of times where

like, oh, you're climbing up some disappearing platforms, for example, or trying to make a tricky jump. And then you fall all the way back down and you have to keep rehearsing to make whatever jump you're trying to make or find whatever hidden path it may be or collect all the power block stars or whatever. And you don't get it on the first try. That, to me, is more satisfying than having to literally replay an entire level again. I just, I never find it that enjoyable. What I like with past a star or like a set of coins in a game and I'm like, I'm going to have to replay the whole level again to get that. Okay. Even if it's a really short level, there's just something different about that feeling. And it doesn't make any sense because in Bowser's Fury, it's the same

amount of time that I'm spending, but I'm just already in that world. And so going to the bottom and then starting over with something doesn't, it feels different. It's like, well, you're already here. And there's infinite time. And you're just doing whatever you're doing. You're in a Mario sandbox. and that's really fun to me. I like the idea of a Mario game being that way. Yeah. There's kind of another angle to think about this difference, these two types of Mario games,

is from the standpoint of the people making the game. It feels to me like the people, like the designer of the game is much more close to me when I'm playing the linear ones. When I'm playing 3D World, just to use these two as the examples, I feel like I'm right there with them

and they're kind of pulling me through this experience. and that's where that kind of cavalcade of delight comes from, where there's just this feeling of, look at this, look at this, look at this. It's someone just doing awesome magic tricks and surprising you and making you laugh, and you're always thinking like, well, what if I hit this thing? Oh, it'll open up this and I'll go up here and, oh, like, secret bonus room that does all this funny thing. And then I'm down here and I'll go through this warp cube that takes me over here. And there's a feeling that they're right there with you, and you're never that far off the leash.

And it doesn't feel restrictive exactly. It feels wonderful because you're being taken through an amusement park ride and just kind of, you know, reacting most of the time. And then sometimes thinking, okay, well, what will happen if I do this? And then usually something cool happens. Where in the open world game, it's much more like they're like, okay, here you go. It's a big, you know, a big sandbox. I guess that's why they call them sandbox caves and you're off the chain. On the one hand, like that is the most basic difference between like a, like saying that is a very basic observation to make. Like, yes, an open world game gives you more freedom and a more linear

or side scroller, it doesn't. But in the context of Mario, I think it's really interesting because both of the games are really well designed. And they're both games that I think of as games where, like, I have such trust in the designers to be constantly, you know, like I just trust them completely. Anywhere I go, there's going to be something I'm supposed to do or supposed to figure out. And so I can just kind of relax and go with it. But there's such different kinds of experiences.

Do you know, the other of you know, who worked on Bowser's Fears? or if it's the same people who worked on 3D world, was it any of the same team? Because I would be curious about that. Not clear. Not clear who made about this series. But it seems to be some of the same people, because Yoshaki Koizumi,

who's one of the kind of head honchos and oversees the whole Mario franchise, was a producer on both of them, and I'm sure it's a very similar crew. Even if it's not the same people, it's funny to think about pairing these two games together. That's a question that a lot of people have raised that there's really no answer to

other than that they both have cat, Mario in them, but not in the same context at all. Like cat Mario in the context of 3D world is just a utilitarian power up that Mario uses to get around. Whereas in Bowser's Fury, it's like a world of cats. It's kind of a cat world. There's a lot of cats. There's a lot of cats. There's enemy cats and there's nice cats and you're a cat and also you can become a mechicat. And I don't know why that would be. Don't the nice cats become enemy cats when Bowser comes around? They become like electric evil cats? I enjoy that. Yes. Yeah, it's interesting that, so, Kirk, to your point, from before, it almost feels like two different genres, the linear Mario game versus the nonlinear

game. And it's almost kind of weird when you think about it, that it's the same series and the same kind of core mechanics and the same characters, obviously. And in these two games, that's especially apparent because you're literally doing the same mechanics as opposed to like an Odyssey where you might have a few different things, a few different abilities that are tailored just for that world. But in this, it's like, it's the, your tool set, your set of verbs is identical between Bowser's Fury and 3D world. Like it's, they're meant to be companion games. So it's weird and not, not disconcerting at all.

It's fun. And there's never a moment where it's like, like making your headspin or anything. But it's still weird to think about that like these two games that are so drastically different in terms of their design, in terms of their overall structure, also happen to use the same mechanics. And, like, you're doing the same core things. You're jumping and running and swimming and scratching enemies of your cat claws and saying, guys, I'm not a cat.

It's like there's a gradient of Mario's abilities and a gradient of what the environment that he's in, like how that changes the game. And those two gradients are, like, moved to different points depending on the 3D Mario game that you're playing. Because in Super Mario 3D, he has a pretty much regular Mario move set. And that was the first one. So it's kind of just a Mario game in 3D.

And then Sunshine, it's like Mario's abilities are completely different because he has this super whatever Sunshine Pack. I haven't really played that game, but I gather it's very, very different. And then in Galaxy, it's more that you kind of have a Mario move set again. But the environments are so completely bananas and constantly changing. and there's this whole gravity mechanic that is outside of Mario. And then in Odyssey, again, Mario has a new ability. And that's actually like the most juiced up Mario's ever been

because his hat lets him become anybody. So suddenly you have all these different moves. It's all about what Mario can become. And then now in Bowser's Fury, it's kind of the other way around. Like the world is, again, the environment is the thing that is providing all of the mechanical like differentiation for this game. Where Mario, like you said, he's basically just 3D world Mario. Yeah. Also, the environment is also the enemy and the victim in Bowser. Like, in terms of story, I still, I just think Bowser's Fury is a stronger game. I mean, this is sort of a topic change slightly, but I want to say it before we wrap on this. One of the chief things that I disliked about 3D world is that there are a lot of damsels in distress in that game, and there is truly no reason for it at all.

There's almost no plot except that there are six women being held in, like, jars. It's like as though they've, they realize like, oh, Princess Peach can be a playable character in this one. Well, what can we come up with to have happen? I guess we'll have to invent a bunch of female characters who you don't know. And they're like little chivy animation version. Like, they don't even really look like people just so that they can be kidnapped by Bowser, who is a completely flat villain. Like, there's nothing else to him at all. And I don't know.

Sprickses. They're called Sprickses. Sure. I don't, it doesn't matter who they are. they're literally objects. Like, it's so, it's like, I can't even do more than a feminist 101 read of it because there's no further analysis that you can even do of that premise. It's so basic.

But then Bowser's Fury is actually very different in terms of the conflict that it's setting up because you have that tension with like Bowser Jr. being like, well, Mario, I don't want to have to ask you for help, but I guess I have to because my dad's in trouble, but also my dad is the central antagonist of this game. And that's already more fascinating and more fun to play than just another route to like rescue these little gems that are women kind of. Like that's great. I love Bowser's Fury. It rules.

I agree about 3D World, especially replaying it. It was wild to me that they basically were like, what if we removed the entire narrative? And there's no narrative. They're like, okay, we need one thing, one narrative element to put in the game. Well, let's make it D'Ansel and distress. We can't take that out of some Mario game. It's like, guys, you could have just taken the whole story out and just had them go on a tour of this weird kingdom of something,

but they needed this. It's like the only narrative element in the whole game, which is remarkable. Or they could have had him steal actual objects. Like, why have it be a bunch of random women? Like, have him steal a bunch of ponies or something. I don't care. Or medals. Or like pipe pieces because they make pipes.

Well, the funny thing is, they might have, I mean, their thought process might have been like, oh, the player won't care unless he says to stakes and it's people. But there have been Mario games where like you're literally going around and collecting coins and that's your McGuffin. Like the six golden coins and Mario Land too. And it's fine. That's not why we play Mario games. Also like do you need motivation in a Mario game? Like I am motivated by the joy of playing a Mario game.

Exactly. That in and of itself is its own motivator. I'm not like stressed out throughout Mario like am I going to make it to Peach in time? Like the torches she must be undergoing like these horrifying cutscenes of Peach alone in the castle. Like that is, it's not an. emotionally motivating game in that type of way. And thank goodness, like, it doesn't need to be. That's not the purpose of the joy of that game. So it's like, it's very silly to me that they're even still relying on it. And I, again, I don't know if Bowser's free is a commentary on that,

but it is very noticeable to me that this like more modern Mario game that just came out is taking a very different tack to both Bowser is a more complex character, which I would argue is building upon the Bowser of Odyssey as well, which also twists some of the damsel and distress. narrative in its own its own framework. Like, the idea of Mario having a story is sort of laughable in and of itself. But if it can be said to have a story, I would say that Bowser's Fury is yet another chapter in the ongoing saga of Bowser and Mario's contentious relationship. That is true, though, that Bowser's Fury is a Mario game with no damsel and distress,

which is, you know, unusual. Maybe one day Nintendo will reach the storytelling of the 90s. They're still in the late 80s getting there. A couple more things on Mario 3D world that I found interesting. One is that there is no triple jump. And you might not notice this unless you're a big Mario player and you played all the games. But usually in most of the 3D Mario games, you jump once, jump twice, jump three times, and you'll get higher and higher each time.

In this game, there is none for some reason. Not really clear why other than, I guess, the design of the game didn't allow for it. I think because this game is encouraging you to move. so quickly. It's a lot faster than other Mario games. Maybe because the triple jump gives you like different levels of height and different levels of momentum each time you do it, it would make it tougher. It makes it tougher to go like super fast and still stay in control and still be precise. Like you can't be as precise if you're jumping different momentum. I guess a lot of the levels are designed around the cat wall climb as well and they've spent so much time on that kind of

verticality that adding variable verticality for the regular jump might just have been one too many things. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cat suit is the big, clever idea that this game brings to the table. And it's super fun to use climbing up walls with the cat suit, scratching an enemies. It's a little overpowered, I would say, for the game. It lets you just go like, like, scramble to everything. But it is, it is moving.

It's a power fantasy living out. And the other interesting thing, this game also introduced. is the double cherry. I don't know if you guys have gotten up to a level that requires that yet. Yeah, I've played almost the whole game. Oh, you have. Oh, right, you're right. You both have played it all.

Okay, so the double cherry, which was first introduced in this game, clones your character, whether it's Mario Luigi, Peach, or Toad, and you can get up to three of them and have a group of up to four of your guys moving around. And it is wild. It is so chaotic and fun. And I haven't played this multiplayer, but I can't even imagine like four people, each using the double charity would be hilarious. I don't remember it being fun.

But, you know, it depends on who you play it with folks. Yeah, I think you should try playing it with Dina. Yeah, I would see what you would think of it. It might be more fun with her. Yes, I think so. I think these games, all multiplayer games are more fun when you're playing with someone who, like, you have a healthy relationship and you're happy with and stuff.

That's true. That's a hot gamer tip. If you're going to play a cooperative game, it should be with someone who you have a healthy relationship. It's going to go really well if you do that. Triple-click tips. Triple-glick's hot game or tips. It's very good advice. We've got all the advice for you right now. But the double cherry is hilarious, and it's especially funny because that concept actually originated in the Zelda series.

Another thing taken from Zelda from the four swords adventure games, where you would get an ability to like to multiply as link and you could solve puzzles as like two, three, four links. Yeah, I mean, and Kirby, Planet Robobot, you get the little robot and you control them both of the same time. Love that mechanic as well. That's a good point. Yeah, really the Kirby reference is the one I care about. Who played four swords? Four swords references.

Well, the four swords, that mechanic also came back in Minish Cap. Did you guys ever play Minish Cap for the Game Boy? Game Boy Advance. Great, great Zelda game for the Game Boy Advance games. If you're playing other Game Boy Advance games, such as Final Fantasy 6, Minish Cap could be your next stop. Interesting. Okay.

Unless they bring it, maybe they'll bring it to Switch one day. One last thing is that we're actually recording this on Tuesday night. There's a Nintendo Direct hitting. Wednesday of this week. Who knows what will be there? I don't know. Maybe they'll talk about Mario 3D World's DLC or something. Probably not. Maybe they'll launch a whole Bowser's Fury

game and announce it. I don't know. But if you're wondering why we haven't talked about that news, it's because this is happening after that. Okay, cool. Well, so let's wrap things up here. Super Mario 3D World plus Bowser's Fury. Out

now for the Switch. I think it's safe to say we all enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm going to keep playing. I'm going to play through all of Bowser's Fury and probably all of 3D World because they're both super fun, although I have other games to play on my Switch, such as Bravely Default 2, which I will talk about next week, probably. Next week will be JRP heavy. But yeah, Mario 3D World, pretty cool game.

Why don't we take a break and then we'll be back with one more thing. I'm Judge John Hodgman. And I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Ten years ago, I came on Jordan Jesse Go and judged my first. first dispute. Is chili a soup? It's a stew, obviously. The judge has dispensed a decade of justice. He's the one person wise enough to answer the really important questions. Like, should you hire a mime to perform at your own funeral? After they cry, I want them to laugh. Do you really need a tank full of jellyfish in your den? They smell like living creatures decaying. Only if they are decaying.

Yeah, which they will be. Real people, real judge. Real Comedy. Winner of the Webby Award for Best Comedy Podcast. The Judge John Hodgman podcast every Wednesday on MaximumFund.org. Hey, it's Jesse. What you're about to hear is real. Hey, this is Chris. Hi, Chris. It's Jesse calling for Maximum Fun. Hey, Jesse.

I heard that you got into a car accident. Yeah, I was listening to stop podcasting yourself and I just laughed so hard that I slammed into a construction barrier. Do you remember what it was that was so funny? I will never forget, I'm sure. They started talking about Vegas and the, you know, if it happens here, it stays here, and that slogan. And then Graham was talking about, oh, you know, wasn't there some other slogan for another commercial?

I was like a commercial for food and it said like whatever's in there stays in there. I can't remember what it was, clams or something. Clams? Just so ridiculous. And, man, I got lightheaded. I was laughing so far. Next thing I know, smash.

They are just brilliantly funny. So I talk to Dave and Graham from Stop Podcasting yourself. We would like to pay your car repair bill. Is that okay? I mean, that would be super nice, Jesse. I really, thank you. I appreciate that. And we are back.

Kirk, I know you. You are eager. You look like you're champing of the bit to just get into your PS5 talk. So give us your one more thing. My one more thing is I guess kind of a cheat. It's just the PlayStation 5 experience. Because I got a PlayStation 5 as listeners will remember from last week. Previously on Triple Click, Kirk told a seven and a half minute story of ordering a PlayStation 5 from Walmart.

It was thrilling, though. It had ups. It had downs, twist turns. It was a dramatic story. So now I just get to play PlayStation 5 games. So yeah, I've been playing Spider-Man Miles Morales and Demon Souls, both codes that Sony sent me. I should say, so this thing was expensive but not as expensive as it would have been if I were buying all these games, which if you want to play the best stuff on the PlayStation 5, it's quite an investment. So I like the PlayStation 5.

I guess that's not a surprise. It's a good console. Generally speaking, that's kind of my take on it. I both understand why I remember Jason that your initial response was okay, that I believe is how you said it, when you had the new consoles, that you were a little bit just like, okay, they're new consoles, what's the big deal? And then over time, I don't want to put words in your mouth, you're right here, I can just ask you, but I believe you have come to warm significantly on the PlayStation 5, and now you think of it as like, oh, this is nice console that I like playing. I get that too. Yeah, mostly because of the controller. The controller is nice. Maybe I'll start there. That is a big part of why I like playing it. It's a great controller. Much ink has been spilled. Digital ink has been put on the screen about the dual sense controller, but it's great. I love controllers. Much podcast juice has been drunk.

Yeah. Into your earholes? Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah, I like it. It feels good. I'm used to the under buttons with the scuff controller that I use on PS4 and the, Microsoft Elite dude that I use on PC. And those are cool, but I've been playing Demon Souls with the shoulder buttons, just like usual. And it's totally fine. I do like the resistance on the triggers and Miles Morales. It's cool. Yeah, it's super cool. And I really like the Rumble.

I think it was actually, I like it a lot more after we had such a helpful expert come on Triple Click to explain to us how it works. I think that that understanding the mechanism of it helps me like immediately. and always appreciate what's going on. And you do notice it immediately. It's a good example is at like 2-1 in Demon Souls. You go up, you unlock this sort of elevator that's like a chain, a series of chain platforms that you can get on, and they're just going up and down.

It's at this mine, so it's kind of a mine, whatever elevator. And you use that to get up to the next part of the level from the starting point. And when you go up it, there's just this tick, tick, tick, tick, tick as the chain goes through the device. And it feels like these just tiny little ticks that get slightly more powerful and frequent as you move past different points on the rotation of the device. Stuff like that that just now that I think of a like a last-gen vibration is just the thing that you get when you go out to a restaurant and they give you a thing that just sits on your table and vibrates, which is what it is. Like a just tumbler that spins around. Like you can immediately tell how much more sophisticated that is. And it's cool.

It really does. They do a lot of cool stuff with it in DEM. Men's Souls. So I could talk about Demon Souls for like four hours, but that game rules. I'm obsessed with it. I've played a whole ton. It's so good. By the way, Maddie is going to jump into that.

Once she finishes Dark Souls, I just know that she's going to get Demon Souls. And Maddie, it'll be your one more thing for like a month. Maddie, you're going to love Demon Souls. Like, holy crap. Like, it's so, I like it. Oh, man, I really like Dark Souls, but I really like Demon Souls. It would be a great first Souls game for anybody. It's right up there with me.

with Bloodborn as far as how much I'm enjoying it, just because, oh, the thing I should say, I'm talking about the PlayStation 5 and not the game, it looks amazing. Like, that is the thing that I wasn't fully prepared for. It's not even using ray tracing, apparently. But, like, this game looks just beautiful. And playing a FromSoft game that's polished to this degree

is pretty cool. Like, I'm just blown away by the lighting and the, like, animations and just, God, it looks cool. And when you're, you know, it's like a last-gen, the last, last-gen game. So there's nothing happening on screen that couldn't have happened many years ago. But seeing it look this way, wow, is pretty amazing. No, well, there are things.

It's a total remake. Like, graphically, they've added so much stuff that didn't happen. But I mean, like, in terms of there aren't, like, creatures doing things like creatures do in PS4 games, like, like in Horizon Zero Dawn. Like, there aren't, you know, battles going on with multiple planet-sized things. Sure, yeah. You know, it's like when you're fighting these. the Dragon God, and you're like, this is a PS3 game.

Like, the Dragon God is not going to climb out and then make me fight something that big. This is more of a gimmick. That's more what I mean. But it looks incredible, and it makes a great impression. I was surprised how much of an impression it made based on how it looks. And yeah, Astro's Playroom is cute, but playing it at the same time as Mario for this episode, makes it very clear how, as great as it is, and as talented as the developers who make those games and who also made Rescue Mission for VR, which was wonderful, R, they are borrowing very heavily

from Nintendo and they don't have the same level of chops as Nintendo or they just don't have the time and the freedom to like explore that many ideas because there are more ideas in like 30 minutes of 3D world than there are in the entirety of Astros Playroom which is but it's basically a glorified PlayStation ad right so whatever like it's it's cool and it's a free pack in and it makes the case for the controller so I could talk a lot more and I'll talk more about demon souls I'm probably going to beat that game I'm like so into it I just freaking love it so I'll talk about that more week. That's it for me. But yeah, PlayStation 5, it is, as reported, a good video game console. It is a good video game console. It is a pretty big, though. It is pretty big. It takes up a lot of

space. It fits in the space where my PS4 was, so it's fine. I like that it's white. I like that it's white, actually. I don't need another black piece of technology. It's nice that it's kind of sticks out. It sticks out, all right. It definitely sticks out. It's also like, it's white on the outside, but the inside is, is like totally black. So it looks like, like a computer or whatever. Like, it almost looks up, but it has that shell. Yeah, it's, it's grown on me. Maddie, what's your one of my thing? Okay, so I watched Judas and the Black Messiah, which is a movie that I guess people can watch on HBO Max now. I got a screener for it in the mail because I am in the Writers Guild, Union. And so I got to watch it for free ahead of time, which was pretty sweet.

So Dean and I really enjoyed this movie. I've been also enjoying. reading criticism about it because a whole bunch of awesome critics have been writing about it because it's a biopic about Fred Hampton, Daniel Clueh Stars in it. He's incredible. Lakeith Stanfield is also in it playing an FBI agent. Well, he works with the FBI who sets up the killing of Fred Hampton. And it's, so most of the movies about Lakey Stanfield's character, and I think some of the criticisms I've seen has been sort of rightfully disappointed in that because Fred Hampton is this sort of interesting socialist guy

who had really radical politics, you know, was a member of the Black Panther Party and really advanced that cause in a cool way and a lot of people don't know who he is and this movie is like how they first heard of him for many people. And that part is cool, but the movie's also not really about him. It's about his death and the circumstances leading to his death.

and Lekeith Stanfield's character betraying him and deciding to betray him. And that's a really sad story. But I still think it's worth watching, even though it's not really about Fred Hampton. And I mostly just, my takeaway from it was to read some more stuff about Fred Hampton after the fact and be like, wow, I didn't really know a lot about this guy. And I'd like to read more about him and just learn about what his deal was. But this movie's not really about that. It's mostly about the FBI interfering in the Black Panther Party and destroying it.

And that is a story that I think is also worth telling and that a lot of people don't know about. Yeah, I recommend it. It's interesting that this movie came out. I love Lekeith Stanfield and want to watch it. I saw it. Allegra Frank, formerly of Polygon and then Vox and now over at Slate, did an interview with him, which I haven't read. Yes, very, very good interview.

It looked like it was really interesting. And it's funny because Fred Hampton turns up in, trial of the Chicago 7 and is very he's a character in that movie and they talk about the Black Panthers and his story he's it's obviously like a bigger cast story about a lot of different people he's certainly not a main character but he's an important character and it was enough to make me be like wow I know so little about this period of time and it's cool that there's another movie about him even though it sounds like it's not fully about him I still want to see it yeah yeah I there was a lot I didn't know I feel like this is one of those situations where you're like okay

well, I already know Fred Hampton was killed. Like, what could possibly be thrilling or interesting about this movie? But it's not that way at all. Like, you don't know how it's going to go down. And there were some things I didn't predict about the end where I was like, what? Because I don't know history. And it's important to read more. Yeah.

That was my main takeaway. Very interesting. Interesting. Nice. Shout out to Lakeith Stanfield, too, is awesome. And in everything. I think, like, I don't watch a lot of movies. I watch a lot more TV than movies.

but I think like he's been in like 50% of the movies I've watched over the past couple of years. Have you watched Atlanta yet? Have I ever seen Atlanta yet? No. Oh my God. You both need to see Atlanta. He's amazing and that show is legendary. It's one of the best TV shows like ever.

But like sorry to bother you is also. Sorry to bother you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's really taken off and deservedly so. Yeah. So my one more thing is murder mysteries.

I have been on a kick for various. reasons of reading murder mysteries. And so I, what I did is I went online. I googled Best Murder Mystery Books of Last Year and just bought a couple of them and I've been reading through them. So just to give you guys a couple of them, these are British Murder Mysteries. And they're both pretty good that I read. One of them is called Moonflower Murders by Anthony Horowitz. And the next one is called The Eighth Detective by Alex Pavasi. And coincidentally, they're both very similar because they're both about, like, um, their books about books and books about authors who wrote murder mysteries and like, they contain murder mysteries within them. So in the first one,

Moonflower Murders, you're reading the book and then all of a sudden in the middle of the book is another book. And it's like, it's literally a book within a book. And so within this bigger story, you have to read this 200 page novel. That's another murder mystery and figure out the two, the connections between this book within the book and the book. It's just like, playing Skyrim, man. You used it book. It's wild. It's like the lusty Argonian made of murder mystery.

Exactly. Yep. Anyway, I enjoyed that one. I actually enjoy that one more than the eighth detective, but that was also pretty mind-blowing. And I also got a book called One by One by Ruth Ware, but I haven't read that one yet. Another British murder mystery. But yeah, the Brits and their murder mysteries, they're really good at them.

They love them. One of the reasons that I'm on this kick is because I, I, enjoyed the seven and a half deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle by Sue Turton last year, and then his follow-up, The Devil in the Dark Water, which I talked about on the show, both of them last year. And yeah, I've been on a kick. Murder mystery kick, man. So does the detective in either of these books have a barcode on the back of his head by chance?

No. I've got to say the Hitman Murder Mystery a little bit shallow, shall we? say. Not quite on the level of an actual literary murder mystery. Yeah, pretty easily guessable. But yeah, why didn't Agent 47 find a book inside of that murder mystery? That would have taken it to the next level. Yeah, that really would have. Yeah, there's something fascinating about all of these like fourth wall breaking, not even fourth wall breaking. Like they're very upfront about the fact that this is a person trying to figure out a murder mystery who's very aware of murder mysteries, It's like knives out, right?

It's like the murder of a person who wrote mystery novels who lives in basically the clue house. You know, it's the same. Yeah, or murder she wrote. I think because the concept of a murder mystery has been done so many times, one of the only ways to be truly original is to go and get a little meta with it

and some more deeper. And commentate on it. Yeah. Is there a specific phrase literary-wise that describes that? It's not fourth wall breaking, but like a thing within another thing. Is there? Well, it's called a book within a book.

That's the phrase that you use. It's just called that. It's just called a book within a book. Well, fair enough. But I've never, so I had read books where, like, obviously some other book is part of the core plot. Right, yeah. I've never actually read a book where, like, suddenly the plot stops and you read another book for 200 pages. I don't, I can't remember any books that I've read.

Was it one of the Rothfuss books did that, the like where he tells a story? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. And it goes on forever in your line. But that, yes. But that was the same character. This is like totally different characters. So it's like, and it's, both books have huge cast of characters. So you really have to keep track of a lot of names, which can be, can be a little tricky.

But yeah, I mean, I think one of, I think murder mysteries are fascinating for all sorts of reasons that I won't dive into. But the thing that I think really works best or seems to work best or seems to really create the best effect is when it's like there's one answer. But then there's a twist on top of that. So like this person did it. But actually this person was the other murderer. or this person really was pretending to be this person and just adding another layer of a twist because usually a careful reader might be able to guess the first one

but then the second one will knock them off balance and I think that's a particularly clever way of approaching this sort of thing. So yeah, that's it for me. And that is it for this week's episode. Kirk, Mattie. We will be back on Monday for subscribers to talk about the Mandalorian.

next week for everybody else to talk about Final Fantasy 6. All right. I'll see you both then. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes.

Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network. And if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximum fun.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple click pod, send email the triple click

at maximum fun.org and find a link to our discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximum fun.org comedy and culture. Artist owned.

Audience supported. Nice and let's go at 20 seconds. Cool. You ever think about how many hours of your life cumulative you've wasted just staring at time.

at time.com, like waiting. Like if it's 10, 20 seconds, It's not that many. How many hours? It's probably about 30 minutes maximum. It's like if you cut out Starbucks every day, then you like can buy a house.

That's different. It's not enough time. We can spend a lot more time on it that we do. I do wish that I had a way of just knowing facts like that, though. Like I think about that a lot. I think about it both like how much time, you know, like how much time have you spent waiting at red lights just to know the answer to that question, just to be able to ask it and know it? Do you use productivity apps that, like, tell you how.

long you spend on each chest. No, fuck not. I do. No, I actually hate knowing. I'm obsessed with it. No, I love it. Well, so the other thing I really want is to know the location of any object. Uh-huh. Like, if I could just know where like, I don't know, my game gear is, you know, or like some stuffed animal that I had when I was like, you never lose anything. That would be your superpower. That's your mutant power is like you never. I guess. It's more just like where, whatever happened to that thing, that object. And then in your head, you're like, it's in my parents. storage unit, like, and you just instantly go. Right. And like random things, like a, like a key to a house that you don't live in anymore, you know, or like whatever happened. Just like just random

objects that have probably been owned by like 10 different people. And now it's like somewhere in China or something. Just, it would be cool to know. Where is Jason Roar's chain world right now? I feel like that would really haunt me. That's the information that's a bridge too far for me. Anyway, do you, do you, do you guys want to work for a podcast? Yeah, we should do a podcast. I think we should. I think we should podcast. Thank you.