Triple Click - Triple Play: The Blood of Dawnwalker

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Jason, Maddy, and Kirk talk about The Blood of Dawnwalker, a new vampire game from ex-Witcher 3 developers. They talk about the game's unique time system, the brutal story, and how it all compares to The Witcher 3. One More Thing: Kirk: Reading out loud to someone Maddy: Monsters of God (HBO docu-series) Jason: The Wedding People (Alison Espach) LINKS: Check out Kirk’s new podcast, Definitely Fiction!  Patreon - YouTube - RSS - Apple Podcasts - Spotify - Trailer The Blood of Dawnwalker theme by Nikola Kołodziejczyk, Piotr Musiał, Mikolai Stroinski   Help support this show and unlock bonus content! Become a member at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀 SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch 💬 Join the Triple Click Discord 🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy 📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

In theory, death and taxes are certain in life. But if you're a vampire, death is not certain. And the tax is blood. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games to you. This week, we talk about the Blood of Dawn Walker, an RPG set in medieval Europe with a vampire ruling class. You're a Don Walker. Man by day, teleporting bloodsucker by night. I'm Maddie Myers.

I'm Jason Schreier. And I'm Kirk Hamilton. And hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to another episode. Guys, last week I was on a family vacation to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which is pretty cool, Amish country.

And I found myself, I told the story on my YouTube channel that I'll repeat it here for all the triple click. Oh, thank you. We get your warmed over YouTube content. Thanks so much for me. I mean, everything I do is warmed over something or another. So we found ourselves in this cool little thrift shop. I say a little bit.

It was actually huge. And there were a bunch of different little rooms. within it and one of them had these retro games and it was just like this stack of random ass PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 games and other just old Wii games and whatnot. Oh my god, that's awesome. And I just had this moment thinking that that won't be possible anymore from the PS6 era on because like disks or just as Sony is killing discs and you just won't be able to walk into a thrift store and pick up discs anymore which just made me a little bit sad despite the fact that I buy all of my games on digital or get all my games on digital.

I shouldn't say bye because a lot of them come in for free. But like still, it's, I just had a sad moment of like, I will no longer be able to go to a thrift store and just find old games 30 years from now. That's just really tragic. It is. It's really strange.

I'm trying to think of how that might work in a digital world. But all I can really come up with is like a metaverse, you know, fake used store where you don't actually get games. You walk through a virtual blockbuster. They're just cosmetics that you put up in. your virtual house. But you're actually just wearing a VR helmet and you're like trying to reach out and touch the games, but your fingers just go right through them. Oh, God. This is all so bleak. Yeah, right. That was the thing. I wanted to unbleakify it some, but I got nothing. Well, hey, you know, the digital world isn't all

bad. And why do I say that? Because our podcast is a digital download. And you know what else is a digital download? Our bonus podcasts, which you can only get if you become a maximum fun member. which you can do by going to maximum fun.org slash join and then you can sign up and you can get our monthly bonus episodes this month. It is a big one. It is a it is a really really meaty app because it is all three of us discussing seasons four and five of the Sopranos, which in my case, I am watching for the very first time. You two have seen it before, but for me, I'm avoiding spoilers. I'm analyzing the Sopranos for the first time with you two. It's been a wonderful experience. And that is a mega app. And of course, in the bonus feed, we've got our discussions of seasons

one through three and very eventually we'll have season six, both halves in there. But we got a ton of other stuff in the bonus feed. We have all kinds of episodes about video games and movies and shows and our personal lives. And sometimes we even do listener question. episodes that are very specific in the bonus feed, and that is something that we're going to do next month. We are soliciting your dating advice questions for an episode that we're tentatively calling triple kiss. I think we all think that's funny enough to be what we call that. A working title. It's good. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. So send us your dating advice questions. They can be gaming related. I would say they can be related to games and playing games with your

partner or prospective partners or just plain old dating advice. We're all happily married. How did we become so? We help you for the first time ever. So write in at what is it, triple click at maximum fun.org. That's where you'd write in to great. I know our email address. I've said it before in my life. Put triple kiss in the email subjects, please. If you're writing in for that episode. Please do. Please put triple kiss in the email subject line. So that's triple click at maximum fun.org for the email address there. Send us those. We should say like really anything goes if you want to ask us about kind of like your romantic, your love life advice, if you want to ask us about marriage, if you want to just kind of get really personal, share your stories, anything that you think would make for an interesting conversation, I would say. Yeah, that's fair. I think it doesn't have to just be if you're single and dating. Right on. Yeah, we're open. We're, we're, we're open. We're, we're. We'll see where this takes us. You tell us, you write in. We'll find out what you send to us.

And how would you, the listener, get access to that eventual episode? And hey, there's actually a really fast, frictionless way to support triple click specifically, which is maximum fund.org slash join triple click. It is an even more user-friendly interface. So, hey, try that URL if you want to be speed running supporting triple click. It works even. better than the old one, but the old one's, the old one's good too. So, Kirk, you have something you want to tell the listeners about before we get started today. I do. I have a very exciting

announcement. I am launching a new podcast. And that means that also I have written new theme music which you are probably hearing right now. That's the important part, is the new theme music. The new podcast I'm making is a books podcast called Definitely Fiction, and it is going to be a lot of fun. I'm making it with my good friend Sam Parrish, and for our first book series, we are focusing on the Vorkosagan saga by Lois McMaster, Buzholt. It's a really good series. They're super fun books to talk about, and we are very excited about the show. So these books I have talked about in the past many times, they're a long-running series. that Buzold wrote from 1986 to 2018.

There are like 19 books or something. We're going to do 17 episodes, one every month. That we're front-loading. We have the first two episodes on the first two books are up now, and we're running the next two, which we've already recorded midway through September, and then at the start of October. And after that, we'll be monthly. But we are going to be covering this whole series.

We're doing, like, long episodes that are deep dives into each book. These books are super awesome. I know some people out there have read them and have gotten in touch. with me to say, like, wow, I'd never even heard of these books, the Vorkosugan Saga before you talked about them, and I'm so glad that I read them on your recommendation. They're just kind of one of those series that's a little less talked about, and that's why we both kind of thought it would be a great place to start, because it's never been adapted into a TV show or a movie. It isn't overdone, but it is an exceptionally good series that is really, really

fun to talk about. So, again, the show is called Definitely Fiction. We are making video episodes because Sam lives in Portland. So he has been coming to my studio and we record in person and have been shooting videos. So the podcast is on YouTube. It's on all of the podcast apps. You know, there's an audio version up on all of the apps. And also there are video versions on Patreon. And we are launching a Patreon to fund this thing. That's the way that we are going to generate income from it. So we'll put links for all of that stuff down in the show notes. And I really hope that some people who are listening to this check it out and check out these books. I'm going to give my pitch just very, very, briefly. This is a sci-fi series. It's kind of an epic. I mean, it is like over the course of 30 years. Unlike some sci-fi, these books are not actually a super heavy lift. It's not really dense and complicated. It's much more human and kind of character-based. These are just really characterful stories of politics and intrigue of intergalactic espionage and adventure. Every book is super readable. They all just really go. But it grows more complex over time and kind of along with you as you read each book. And by the end of the series, you'll just have this very rich understanding

of each of these characters and of the world they inhabit. And if any of that makes you curious, you could start with just the first two books. They're called Shards of Honor and Berriar, and they're collected in an omnibus as well called Cordelia's Honor. And they tell the story of Miles Vorkosigan, who's the series protagonist. They tell the story of his mother and how she met his father. So it's kind of a self-contained two-parter about Cordelia. It's really good, especially Barry R is a totally killer book. If you read those two, you'll have a sense of whether you like this or not, and I think a lot of people really will like it. And then also those two episodes are out right now. So you can go listen to us talk about the books after you read

them or if you have already read them. So anyways, I'm very excited. Sam's very excited. It's going to be really fun to have somewhere to talk about these books and books in general. And I hope that some people out there will check out definitely fiction. I hope so too. It sounds really fun. I know you are a voracious fiction reader, so I'm glad you have an outlet that isn't just the One More Things, actually. It's true. Though I will, of course, still be talking about books on my One More Things as well. Shocked to hear that. Shocking news. Well, let's talk about what we are actually talking about today on Triple Click, and that is a new video game called The Blood of Dawn Walker.

I've written a summary of this game to get us started to kind of establish the table stakes. so I will now read it. The Blood of Dawn Walker is a new action role-playing game from Polish studio Rebel Wolves, an outfit made up of a bunch of ex-CD Project Red developers who cut their teeth working on the Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. In Don Walker, players control Cohen, a young peasant living with his family in the Carpathian Mountains of southeastern Europe in the 1300s, or more accurately struggling to survive as a plague ravages Vail Sangora, the fictional valley in which he and his family live. A brutal purge of the infected by the region's ruling regime is halted by the arrival of Brancis,

a powerful and ancient Vrakiri, or vampire, who arrives with his entourage of cool vampire captains just in time to save the lives of Cohen and his family. Brinces establishes a new order, murdering the old ruling class, and installing himself as ruler of the valley, curing the plague by letting the people drink his healing blood, but demanding a monthly blood tribute as well as absolute submission from all of the people. people in return. Many in the valley welcome this new order. Sure, Brenciss is feeding off of them and culling those too weak to provide a blood tribute. And yeah, he's forcing them to abandon Christianity and worship him and papering over the walls of their churches and outlawing free

expression. But the last guy was pretty bad, too, wasn't he? Brencestus thus rules over the valley, not just with the eight of his three vampire captains, but with the help of a significant force of armed human enforcers who patrol and terrorize their fellow humans. As one bit of very repetitive guard dialogue likes to remind you, they do it for the pay. I was waiting to see if either of you would laugh, and because you've heard that line as many times as I heard it while I was talking. There's a few repetitive lines. I do it for the pay. We can get into it. Through a series of events, Cohen is transformed into a Vrakiri. Brancis takes his family hostage, and Cohen sets off on his quest to try to rescue his family before Brancis kills them. Cohen also learns that he is not

just any vampire. He is a Dawn Walker transforming into a normal man in the daytime and becoming a powerful vampire at night. Thus begins Cohen's quest to save his family and throw off Brancis' rule, an adventure that will play out quite differently depending on the choices players make. Don Walker is a third

person action game very much in the vein of the Witcher 3. Gameplay involves investigation and light puzzle solving, exploration of a large open map, branching conversations filled with complex branches, and driven by intriguing hidden reputation systems, and of course, lots and lots of combat.

Players can embrace any of a number of gameplay styles and builds, and some of them, in particular, the vampiric abilities and drinking lots of blood to go with them, will have an effect on Cohen's development as a character and even change the outcome of story events. As Cohen slowly becomes known as the heroic or terrifying Cohen of Laslia, a name that sure rolls off the tongue like a certain gerald of Rivia, players will encounter Don Walker's novel Time Mechanic,

certainly the most distinct aspect of the game. After the prologue, Cohen learns he has 30 in-game days before Brancis will kill his family in each quest activity, and even many of the upgrades and his skill trees will consume a small or sometimes a large amount of time units, moving him ever closer to his deadline. And that is how Blood of Dawn Walker works. It's a fascinating game.

I am excited to talk about it, and I'd love to hear what the two of you think. So how about tell us what you've played and what you think of it? Maddie, how about you kick us off? Sure. I'm about 10 or 12 hours in and I'm digging it. I really like vampires in general, I'll say. So it's pretty easy to sell me on this. And I think that there are some pretty cool vampire lore elements here.

They're not totally original by any means. It'd be hard to come up with wholly original vampire lore at this point. but I really enjoy what's there. I think the concept of Brancis being as powerful as he is and being like kind of the feudal lord, but he's a vampire and everybody having to give sacrifices to that lord, except again, we're talking about vampires here, kind of dovetails with some vampire lore that I personally really like

when it's used, which is vampires as kind of the symbol for the aristocracy and ordinary people having to find ways to, fight against them using just ordinary means. And Cohen, as a Don Walker, I think is also a fun mechanic in a game, like the fact that he's a vampire at night, can walk around ordinarily during the day. I think that's really fascinating. I would say the story is the main thing in this game that I find to be really strong and what's kept me going. There have been a few things in the game that I think could maybe use a little something extra or like didn't really wow. me. But by and large, I've stayed curious and interested and I've wanted to know what happens.

I really like that you can significantly affect the story, the fact that Cohen is bloodthirsty at night and can kill seemingly anyone, including major characters if he so chooses, is really fascinating to me. That's like often an option conversation that you can just succumb to the hunger and just kill somebody who's like significant to the plot. I think that's really cool. Awesomely. Also, just to elaborate on that, if you go into a conversation with a low enough amount of health, all of your dialogue options will start flashing succumb to the hunger and you might just accidentally succumb and drain someone's Yeah, I had that happen early on, luckily with some peasant guy that I didn't care about. I say luckily, but I did feel really bad about it. And I was like, oh, I need to like really keep an eye on my health bar on this game and make sure that if I'm entering into any conversation with humans that I don't succumb to the hunger.

So I think all of those story beats are really fun. And that has been my favorite part of the game so far. Nice. Jason, how about you? Yeah, I am about to take on the second boss. So maybe halfway through, maybe more than halfway through the game. I am really enjoying it. I really like the time mechanic, which is something that I suspect when people first hear about it will think it's controversial.

like major's masks first reception and first reactions from players. What do you mean? I have a limited amount of time to do stuff. I just want to explore and take my time of the world. But there are a few things that actually make the time mechanic really work very well and make me think that it's really smart. One is that time doesn't go by. You have these 30 days and 30 nights,

but it's not the time goes by when you're just like wandering around the world and just kind of watching a clock tick down. Time only goes by when you do. deliberately make it move by doing quests or investigating certain areas. Basically, everything that will take time warns you ahead of time and you'll see a little indication. Like, fleshing out your skill tree also will take some time. And that's often a good way to just kind of kill the time if you want to wait between day and night because sometimes you can only do quests at night and so you might want to wait a while so you can get a quest done. And that's like a good time to flesh out your

skill tree. So you'll always know what's going to get the timer going. And it's, there's enough time that you don't really have to worry about feeling that constrained, but at the same time, it gives you an end point in sight and you know that you have this structure that is kind of surrounding you, as opposed to a lot of these open world games where you just have no idea how much longer it's going to be and how many more hours you're going to have to play. And you wind up burning yourself out on side quests and not actually. seeing it through to the end of the game, which is what happened to me with The Witcher 3 and, to a lesser extent, cyberpunk and some of these other just open world games I've played over the

years where I just, without having any sort of structure in place to kind of prevent me from burning out on side quests, I just inevitably will and then stop playing. So I really like that this constrains you. And in the prologue of the game, it's designed really smartly in that it tells you very transparently, you will not be able to do every side quest in this prolog. So just pick and choose. And I really like that. It feels the limitations there, I think, feel empowering rather than restricting. You don't feel like you're missing out because you're not doing every single side quest because you know you can't do every single side quest. And I really, really like that. And I think it's the thing that makes this game really cool in my mind. Other than that, it feels a lot like the Witcher. Combats a little bit better. Got some kingdom come deliverance in it. In that you spend a lot of time just kind of parrying in. certain in one of the four cardinal directions kind of feels like a rhythm game. It's got a nice kind of cadence to it. Everything else, a lot of the rest of the game is taken from the Witcher, which makes sense because the director of this game is also the director of the Witcher 3.

And then another of the director is the creative director of this game was the Quest director on Witcher 3. There's a lot of people who are kind of running this game who work together on the Witcher 3, the lead writer of this game was a writer on the Witcher 3, etc., etc. I really like it. I think it's really cool. I've really enjoyed what I played so far. Nice. Yes, I agree.

I really like it. I finished the game a couple of times. I've gotten a few different endings. I finished with 20, after 20 days of in-game time for anyone curious. So I had 10 days left, and I felt more than powerful enough to just go and take on Brinsis and try to rescue my fans. Did you beat all the three subbosses or you just went straight to Francis? Yeah, I did have a few somewhat tantalizing side quests left or ones that I'm at least interested in.

And at some point, in those last 10 days, I'm sure I can go back and finish all of, if not, most, if not all of them. And then the ending I got, I really liked. It feels like my canon ending, so I'll just still get that ending, I think, keeping my save for presumably there will be a sequel to this game. And then I can kind of carry over some of my choices into the sequel, which would be cool. But anyways, yeah, I really like it a lot. And I think we should just start by talking about the time mechanic. I'll keep story stuff like spoilers and specifics really light,

though I am glad to have finished it because I do think it's helpful to be able to really speak to the whole experience when talking about this time mechanic and talking about the writing and the story and everything else, but especially the time mechanic, because I've certainly seen a lot of people pre-release talking like you're saying, Jason, where they're concerned about it or they're saying, oh, no, this is like a no-bye for me. Like, I'm not playing this because I want to, like, see everything. I want to get 100% of the game. Like, I want to get all of the content, you know?

And I think that I totally agree that this approach is both novel and smart and really well implemented. And I think that what it does is it kind of forces you not to think that way. Instead of, you just can't think, okay, well, I got to see everything because that's the whole game. You know, I got to get the whole experience. it's telling you, no, this is an authored narrative that you're going to make your way through, making choices that cut off some avenues and change the outcome so you just won't see everything. And then one of those choices is even going to be, what do you choose to do with the limited time you have? So by giving you that choice kind of at every moment, it's just really reinforcing that this is an interactive narrative. And any narrative has to have branches.

It has to have characters die. It has to have, you know, possible routes get cut off because there's only one route and then that's the story that you told of Cohen. And by the end, I really felt like, okay, that was my story. And I've gone back and seen a few other endings in particular. But a lot of quests, I just made a big decision and the quest ended a certain way. And I'm not even certain how that affected future branches. There's so much branching and variety in this story. And I find that really exciting.

And I love the way the time mechanic just makes you begin engaging with that right from the same. start and you can't just minmax your way and minmax the story, you know, and see every single thing and then just get to the one choice moment, you know, where you make the choice and then see every single thing and make another choice. You're like constantly making choices. And that engages me in the narrative very differently. So, you know how you complained before about my warmed over video stuff that I was bringing on the podcast? Well, now I'll give you a triple click exclusive, which is, I interviewed, so I interviewed the, the, uh, the, uh, directors, Conrad and Mateus, whose last name I would butcher if I tried to pronounce here. But the two of

them, they're brothers. They work together on The Witcher. I've been in them a few times. I interviewed them this week for a Bloomberg story that's upcoming, but I'll give you guys a first little taste, which is Conrad was telling me about the origins of the time mechanic, because I thought that was really interesting. And it actually started at the very beginning of development when they were first, when he was first starting to think about what this game would be. And basically the kind of the flow was, it was, hey, we want to do a vampire game, but vampires are kind of overpowered. So why don't we do sort of like a werewolf thing where you're a vampire during the night and then a human during the day? And then from there, it became, well, okay, what if someone only wants to play as like

a vampire, some of the time or only wants to play as a vampire or only wants to play as a human? What if we have like some sort of day and night cycle? Okay. And what if we have this time system in place? And then also it'll solve that problem. That is the classic RPG problem of like, oh, the meteor is falling from the sky, but you have a bunch of chocobo breeding to do. So you can just go take all the time you want and kind of solve that classic thing. And so that is what kind of led to this. And they spent a ton of time iterating and thinking about what would actually take up time. For a while, they were thinking that fast traveling would take up time.

They decided against that. It was just a lot of kind of back and forth on that. And what they landed on, I think it works pretty well. Some of it is a little inconsistent. and sometimes it'll be like, why does opening this chest take a chunk of time, but like opening this other one doesn't. But still, mostly it feels like it makes sense because usually the stuff that takes up time is connected to quests in some way.

And you can't do every quest in the game. You can do a large chunk of them. But it's also because you have that 30 days and 30 nights. And Kirk, I'm glad you mentioned that you finished it in 20 days. You never really feel like so constrained that you really have to just like make it like you're sacrificing lots of things by choosing to do this quest over this other. You do have a lot of buffer in your schedule to be going and doing whatever you want. And like I mentioned before, it's freeing to know that you're not going to be able to do everything. I think it works quite well. Yeah, I agree.

I also like that this game has the kind of, I think of this as a Breath of the Wild mechanic, but there's other games that do this where it's like you can go fight Ganedorf at the beginning of the game. And like, if you wanted to, on day one, you could go fight princess. I didn't do that, but I did really early on go to, there's like this kind of big city in the game. And I went there kind of quote unquote too early just because I wanted to check it out. Sparthaus. Yeah, Svartow, Zvartow and all these wonderful fictional Eastern European names. And I went there and I was like, oh, all these guys are really hard. Like this is kind of fun and challenging and interesting. And like, I'm going to leave and I'll come back here later and know that I'm so much stronger. And like,

that was kind of cool to me that I could really go anywhere that early on. I think that part of the game makes it feel tantalizing and exciting, especially if you're somebody who really likes challenge and you're like, I actually do want to try and rush through some of the bosses and stuff early on. That's fine. If you're that person, I'm not. I just wanted to try it. But also, I appreciate that the map is pretty specific. I mean, I don't know that I've unlocked the entirety of the map yet, but I get the sense that I, there's not so massive that I'm going to feel really overwhelmed. Like, that's another issue that I have with the Witcher 3 and its ilk of which I have played two hours. But I did play enough of it to open up the map and be like, oh my God, there's so much to do. And that I think never returned. I mean,

I saw like the first zone. I can only imagine, I can only imagine. But that's overwhelming, right? You know, like this game feels very specific. It's worth noting here that the structure of the game is, yes, it's kind of like, Breath of Lot is a good comparison point because you can go for Bruncissus in his castle at any time. But then there are also these three subbosses that we've kind of mentioned in passing a couple of times and each of them as their own region. And it's got this Ubisoft's inspired mechanic where you do a bunch of quests to kind of piss off the subbuss of that region and then eventually they'll reveal themselves to you in some way.

There will be some quests attached to them, and there are a bunch of different ways in which you can approach them. And then taking out all three subbosses will then weaken Brances' defenses in a major way. And along the way, you can also do quests to find allies that will help you against Brinces and find ways to just kind of learn about his defenses and how you can infiltrate them. And there's a whole lot of branches along the way. And, Kirk, to the point you made earlier, I mean, I've been pretty impressed. by like how some of the quests tie into each other in unexpected ways. For example, there's this race of creatures in the game that live on the mountains. And at one point I had a quest that was taking me up to one of their villages.

And I got and met their chieftain. And everybody was threatening me because I wasn't supposed to be up there. And I was talking to the chieftain. And the chieftain mentioned that I had helped out a person in a previous quest that I just happened to do before this one. And that gave me access to the village in a way that I am. I would have had to either fight my way through or bluff my way through or find some other way to help them out to get access. But instead, because I had already done this previous quest, I had access. I'm being vague to avoid spoilers.

But I thought it was a really cool moment. And I always appreciate it when an RPG just remembers your choices. This feels a lot like Balders Gate 3 in that way. Yeah, they're related to that same quest. And I'll also be vague. That's just a cool part of the world, those people and their stories, because they're sort of a, They're separate from the Verculean, from the humans. And I had to, I talked to a guy in the big city, and he was the one who let me know how to find that village.

And he made me swear that I would not cause any bloodshed there. And then I didn't. And so later I was in the city, and he was just kind of hanging out. And as I walked past him, a cutscene played where he and Cohen talked. And he said, I heard you didn't kill anyone. Like, I really appreciate it. like, thank you, you're a friend to us, and then left. It was just like a little scene that any dungeon master would easily do,

but it's that kind of feeling of like, oh, cool, this world really is aware of me, and it keeps you kind of guessing, you know, in that, in that lovely way that a game like Baldur's Gate 3 does as well. And, yeah, I think something that I want to underline that you're both getting at is there is a sense of focus to this story that I think is very cool. I love The Witcher 3. I am by far the biggest Witcher 3 sicko on this podcast. I've played the entire game twice, all of its DLC. I've seen every quest in that game.

I love it so much. We're going to be talking about it more soon when new DLC comes out. I'm going to have to play it finally. And that remaster, yeah, I really want to try to sell the two of you on us playing it and doing a series talking about it next year or something. Because, like, it's really special. I think it's a good idea. I think we're already sold.

Yeah, we are sold. We will do it. Spoilers for future to public series. Don't email them. They're already sold everybody. My subtle attempt to get you all to start sending messages. is not necessary. Because yeah, that remaster looks totally sick, and that game is amazing.

So anyways, there's a lot to say comparing the two. The Witcher 3 does many things that Blood of Dawn Walker does not do. Notably, like, there's just more, it's more playful. It has more kind of these variety set pieces. There's like this big quest where Gerald has to be in a play and you have to remember all your lines. There are these, like, very memorable, silly things.

You go to a party with some ghost inside of you and you have to be the ghost for the whole party. Like, lots of stuff happens in the world of the Witcher that doesn't happen in this game. This is a much more focused game, which we should say it's made by a much smaller team over about four or five years. It sounds like they started in 2021, 2022, which is really cool. Not a much smaller team than Witcher 3. Oh, is it not a much smaller? They started smaller, I suppose, and then they grew.

Witcher 3, I think, was about, I have the number somewhere, but it's about 150 people or so. And Don Walker was made by 160, yeah. They're at 160 now, though they did start smaller, and they've kind of grown over time. Regardless, like, not a, you know, massive development over a 10-year period of time or whatever. Like, we usually see it with games like this. Oh, I have the number. This is from Conrad. Third Witcher was in the beginning, 80 people.

Average was 120. By the end, they had about 200 people. So similar size for what it's right. Nice. Yeah, and it is a much, I would say, just a more tightly focused game. And something that's really cool about this time mechanic and the way that the side quests are designed. as you kind of laid out, Jason, there's a feeling that everything is in service of this one quest. Like there are definitely some like activities.

You can kind of go and just find hidden treasure on a treasure map or you can, you know, I don't know, there's a couple of things that don't directly relate to Brancis. They're just sort of like Cohen trying to get a new piece of equipment that'll make him a little more powerful for when he fights Brinces. But by and large, almost every quest somehow relates to Brancis, to his rule, to like, you know, undermining him or maybe joining a rebellion or finding a character who can help you or pissing off one of his captains so you can fight them. And like there's just this feeling that it's all about this one thing. And it's this one big story that you're working your way through. And that is

unusual for a game like this. There just isn't that chokobo breeding thing. There isn't that feeling of like, all right, now I kind of just want to live in the world. And part of that is because like narratively, this isn't a world you would want to live in. It's much more like Diablo four, you know, in particular. It's this. It's a pretty awful place. Everyone is really beaten down. They're all really scared. Everyone is, like, talking in hushed tones.

It's this, like, brutal authoritarian regime. And so you're, like, under this boot of these vampires at all times. And every, it's just all encompassing. You can't get out from under it. And you wouldn't want to. You wouldn't want to just open a farm and live here. This isn't like, you know, Elder Scrolls game. Like, it's not a, it's not that kind of game.

But I like that. I think it gave it a lot of focus and momentum. It's, man, it is not a light game. A lot of the quests have ending choices where there's no good option, which is... Yeah, you make some very difficult decisions. It deals with some really... I just thought very mature subject matter in ways that I found surprising, things I won't spoil, but just, you know, I do appreciate the writing,

and let's talk a little more about the writing and the story, because I agree with you, Maddie, that is certainly, to me, the strongest thing about the game. I really liked the combat. I found it fun. It's a pretty fun game to play. But, like, the story and the setup of the... story, the narrative framework just grabbed me from the beginning. I think they will do the same thing for many other people. One of the really interesting things about this, it kind of relates to

that all-encompassing feeling of oppression. This is kind of, this is interestingly like a reverse colonization story. This is basically like you have been colonized by vampires. And this is a bunch of Christians in southeastern Europe in the 14th century being colonized by an outside force. And it's very much that story. Like, the vampires are covering over all of the murals on the walls of the churches and outlawing Christianity, which is something that European colonists did to other cultures when they colonized them. Like, this is very much the experience of being colonized. And that's, like, what this game feels like, which I just think is a very interesting thing for a game to explore. You know, there are a lot of games, like, I think of Breath of the Wild, they do a

kind of post-apocalyptic thing. Oh, the world's been destroyed. And there's a very interesting thing. like some big weird god and you have to go fight him and like pick through the ashes of the society. But it's a very different flavor to be in your familiar setting, your character's familiar setting, with people that you know under the rule of an occupying force who are in the process of erasing your culture. And that I think is a striking and distinct thing about this game. And in particular, the way that it actually takes the real religions of the period. Like there's a Jewish district in the city, you meet Jewish characters, like a rabbi who is very helpful. You know, a lot of the characters are Christian,

that a lot of them are dealing with the fact that, like, they're no longer allowed to practice Christianity, even though they may be really believed and still believe and don't know what to do. Other people are trying to synthesize that by saying, well, Brancis is a saint, clearly. Like, he must be an angel or something. He has these, his healing blood and he has these divine seeming powers. So maybe I can kind of like reconcile this. And saved us from the previous despot who was in charge. Right. And then, yeah, there's this. other interesting political valence where, you know, is it better to be ruled by a human who is also genuinely awful or this actual monster and like, what is our culture worth to us? I find all

of that's so interesting and just consistently compelling throughout the time I was playing the game. This actual monster, who it's worth noting, as he points out very early on, like, removed all taxes and tithes and like... It murdered the aristocracy, yeah, and heals them. Killed all the hated aristocracy. And all he asks for is some blood. All taxes except for one. Yeah, it's perhaps the worst tax of all. I do like how even the characters who seem to kind of be going along with this idea that Brencis is a saint, like nobody ever really seems like they're that much of a true believer. And I feel like that's emphasized by like the paintings in the church. Yeah, they do it for the pay. I mean, I guess since we have been very complimentary, I can describe something you're getting at Jason. which is that like every now and then the lack of writing is almost how I would describe some of the parts of this game that stick out where like I'll do a quest and I'll be like oh that was like very clearly a side quest where the dialogue was very placeholder feeling and almost nothing came of that and like those are the moments of of disappointment that I have in this game or when every now and then something it just happens that feels really cardboard and I'm like that's too bad because everything else in this game feels

So finally crafted. So it's like tough to run into peasants who look identical to one another or like just little things. Like sometimes I'll like do something nice for someone and they'll be an entire request. And then I'll like go back and talk to them and they'll have the same boilerplate line of I just don't like the look of you or whatever it is that they say to Cohen when they don't like him. And I'm like, we just had a moment. Man, there are just little things like that that I'm like this this doesn't quite hang together as much as. I would like. Yeah, I can see that. Like, there's definitely like repetitive NPC dialogue. And there are, you know, out at the edges, it does start to become clear, okay, they had to scope for this at some point

and they couldn't have every line, you know. But, and you get that feeling occasionally, though I do have to say, there's definitely a philosophical connection to The Witcher 3 here where something that the Witcher 3 did, and I think kind of introduced, that I know Horizon, the Horizon Forbidden West Games, did this same thing.

they kind of borrowed this idea from the Witcher. I think explicitly, like I believe there have been GDC talks about this. But the Witcher, their quest designers had this idea where every quest has to lead to some complication. Like, you have to start the quest. The guy hires you to go take out the monster. You go to take out the monster, but then you realize, like, oh, there isn't really a monster. Actually, it's like the possessed guy's son and the guy was lying to you. And he wants you to go kill his son because his son actually, whatever, like, slept with some girl he wasn't supposed to and ran off.

Like, there's always this twist, and then Gerald has to make some decision where it's like, do I save the guy's son and try to, you know, explain to the villagers what happened or do I kill him and go back? And you, like, get this little choice. And almost every main quest in this game does the same thing. Even the one, like, what in a Ubisoft game would be fully the copy-paced feeling of like, okay, there are these, you know, there's like a patrol out and you kill the patrol. And then that brings you a little closer to fighting the region boss. And it's just like, okay, another patrol on the road. You kill them. In this game, each of those kind of falls into a category, and if you do them all, they kind of connect to one another. Like one of the sub bosses is doing this research into the kind of ancient ruins that lie underneath this valley. And so there's a whole kind of interesting kind of backstory lore thing there with these ancient ruins and maybe the people who came before. And one of the sub bosses is trying to learn more about that. And so each time you kind of just go into a base and you like fight a boss and clear it out and then spend some time points in order to finish the quest, but each time you also learn more and you get these documents. And actually there's like a kind of NPC that's like a major NPC connected to all of them.

And if you do them all, it like closes out this little story that even gives you some choices and some interesting dialogue options. And a lot of the game is designed that way and I think that's very cool. Like it's definitely in the same way the Witcher 3 felt this way. Like it feels like an evolution of that kind of RPG side quest. Yeah, I have felt that way too. I actually haven't felt the same way. is you and Maddie as far as just kind of rougher notes of the quest and the writing. I've

been feeling the opposite where the quest and the writing are kind of such a highlight for me that they're making up for some of the other shortcomings, which I think are more along the lines of just kind of like too many wolves and some kind of boring travel options and too much fast travel, too many fast travel points and other things that are more minor complaints. So the quest are the creative director of this game, Matea, I'm going to try to pronounce his last name. I didn't before, but it's Matthias Tomskovich, which is probably wrong, but close enough.

Better than not saying his last name. And he's the brother of the director, Conrad Tamoskowitz. They're both kind of directors on this game and play a key role on it. So, Matthias was the quest director on Witcher 3, and he's the one who kind of, like, led that charge of having

every quest have a complication. And I'm seeing that all over the place here. I mean, a lot of little stuff, like, oh, this person who you thought was going to be alive and like conspiring is actually dead or like you mentioned Kirk what could feel like wrote Ubisoft style quests in that when you're trying to piss off these bosses and get them to come out at you have little little twists along the way even if it's just small stuff like there's one where you're destroying barrels and out and unexpectedly like someone

pops up out of one of the barrels that is just this ridiculous character this hilarious character yeah one of the few moments of levity like is like Like Kirk said, there's very, very few moments of luck. Yeah, this is a bleak game. It is definitely a game that doesn't have a lot of comic relief to it. And yeah, Witcher 3, there's no, like, unicorn sex or other, just kind of, it's a very different tone in the Richard 3. That's one where areas where it's very distinct.

Yeah, the shortcomings I've seen or thought about just as I'm playing are a lot of the shortcomings that, like, a lot of other RPGs have. Inventory bloat. just way too many like systems that you just never need to even think about but just are overwhelmed with constantly or like a skill tree with skills that are mostly kind of meaningless like 10% upgrade in your attack ability like who gives the shit some of the skills are good but yeah some aren't and yeah especially the crafting system I would say yeah the crafting system like collecting all this just stuff from people

you get so many like usable you know like consumables that the idea of crafting anything like I think I crafted something at the very beginning and then never crafted anything again and never used my consumables to begin with. Yeah, I've done some healing items. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing about this combat also. And I think they'll have to iterate on this combat a little bit more for the next game, even though I like it. But the way it works is that essentially if you get the rhythm game of it all right, you can

just beat anything in the game without even really thinking about it. And I think on harder difficulties, you won't see the icons that are telling you, which direction to use, which I imagine changes the game quite a bit. That's a setting, actually, that you can turn off. And if you did want to make it harder, you could, and you'd have to read body language to gauge your paris, which would be cool. It's a, yeah, it's a cool combat system. It does get a little bit repetitive, having played the whole game, partly because

there just aren't that many types of enemies. And then, you know, so it took me, my game clock says 39 hours, or my steam clock says 39 hours, rather. My game clock says, I think, 25. it's probably somewhere in between, like 30-something hours. And I could have probably played another five to ten, like getting everything else. And definitely halfway through, both Cohen was, you know, yoked enough and just kind of pretty unstoppable.

And also, I was good enough of the combat that I just, like, was destroying everything I fought. And, yeah, like you're saying, Jason, I just was like, okay, I know exactly when to parry and exactly when to dodge on every boss. There's a generous perry window to anyone worried about parrying. It's actually very satisfying once you get it right. You kind of block and pick a direction. So if they're coming in from the left, you swing your sword left and block them. And it feels really good.

I mean, it is directional. Like the directionality thing is similar to Kingdom Come Deliverance to. But the actual combat is way more fun, I think. Like it's much more like percussive and fun and kind of punchy. And I do like that about it. But it does get repetitive. Especially, man, wolves, God. Yeah, I mean, it's a way, it's a huge upgrade over a Witcher 3.

Oh, that's the big weakness of it. that game is the combat. Something I think is worth noting here is that Rebel Wolves, the company behind this game, started at like the beginning of 2022, and they got an investment from net ease, which this was the time for people who might not remember of 2021, 2022, where everybody who had worked for a AAA company was going off and starting new companies and getting investments from VCs or for China or from Saudi Arabia. And most of those games didn't come out. So it's worth highlighting this as something that actually came out is pretty good, is pretty cool, seems to be setting up, like set up for success and hopefully they get the chance to keep making more of this

stuff. And I think there are a couple of reasons for that, a lot of good reasons for that, I'm sure, one of which is that it's a lot of people who have worked together before who are running the studio. But a big one, I think, it helps explain some of this game, which is that they had a template that they could use in the Witcher 3. Witcher 3 was a game. They all knew how to make. They could just kind of start off with it and use it. that as kind of a default, which might help explain some of the decisions they made, such as like throwing in all these different systems that you don't really have to engage with all that much, like crafting and item weight and other just kind of RPG default mechanics.

Because I think when you're making a game, you have to make so many different decisions, both big and small, every single day, that it can be paralyzing and it can almost be helpful to be like, well, okay, that's what we did. That's what we know how to make. Let's just go with the default decision that we know what we did with The Witcher 3 and then just take it from there. And that way you can focus more of your time and energy on the bigger picture changes that you're making, like the time system or like the combat and proving that, that sort of thing. It can be helpful to have a baseline. And oftentimes when we see some of these big, ambitious game projects fail, it's because they don't have a vision. And there's no, no team behind it that

has worked on other games before and can use that as a template. I'm thinking specifically of a game called the Last Sentinel that was recently, they haven't said it's canceled, but it's essentially canceled from Tencent. And that was a game where they hired a bunch of AAA people. They said, we're going to take on all these big games. We hired this guy from Rockstar. We're going to make Grand Theft Auto. And essentially it was just a disaster. Too many cooks in the kitchen and not a clear vision moving forward on that game. And this is the opposite thing where there was a very clear vision. But like some of that might have just been stuff we've seen before. So I guess it's very easy to forgive some of the kind of like over-encumbrance of systems that you don't actually

have to engage with in this game. Yeah, one more thing to share on this game, I think, is just to talk about Cohen a little bit more as a protagonist, since he spent a lot of time with him. And I like him. I think he works as a protagonist. He is not Gerald of Rivia, even though Cohen of Laslia sounds similar. He is, but he's still a good character. He's a softer character. in general, I think. He's gentler and he's a little thrown out of his element and into this, into this like morass. Man, the narratively, it actually really reminds me of Mistborn. You know, anyone out there who's read Miss Born, the Brandon Sanderson book? You're in your fantasy and sci-fi, massive series. Yeah, well, Missedborn in particular, like the setting and the feel of that,

the oppressive nature, like being in this doomed rebellion underneath an unstoppable force. There's a lot of similarities there. Anyhow, Cohen is, I think, a strong character. It's not Gerald Rivia. Like, it's not that performance. You don't get that kind of wry, sexy, confident guy. But you get someone else. And I will say, over the course of the game, Cohen is fleshed out, I think, really well, as is his family.

Something that I felt at the beginning where you meet his family and you're kind of happy for a little while before everything goes to shit, I kind of was like, oh, we didn't get very long with his family. I don't know that I'm that invested in rescuing them because, like, I don't really know who his dad is. Like, who is his father? And his father has this very important figure with him clearly, but you only get like 10 minutes with him and then he's gone. But I will say the game does a very good job, I think, of fleshing that out, specifically of flushing out his father, but also his mother, and also just the backstory of his family.

And focusing on Cohen's, like, I guess it's on his trauma and on recovering from something really terrible that happened to their family. And it actually winds up being a very specific and well-told story that's very full of character and consistent for him that then ties in with, with like his broader story in the game. And that is another thing I think this game does very well is they handle their main character quite well. Yeah, man. Finding your dad's old war buddy and hearing his stories is just, yeah, classic.

And that character is ridiculous, absurd. There's some more levity, by the way, in that character. Yeah, the writing in this game, I mean, same as The Witcher 3, just playing through this game and seeing the caliber of English writing that is created by people who are not native English speakers. is just incredibly impressive.

Yeah, I guess they found some good translators. I do feel like there probably is something to the tone, though, and like the sort of like the storytelling conventions of that part of the world that we've talked about on this show before. And the history that it's speaking to is also like a very dark time in history across Europe. And that I think is it's definitely something that you've got to get used to when you're playing the game. I don't dislike it by any means, but like the game is a vibe and the vibe is sad. It's like you're really hanging out with some doomed people.

And the quests that I do think are well written are because they are end in sadness and knife twists like Kirk was saying. And like that is a very big part of what makes the game effective, but also just like a certain kind of like, icky feeling that I think is totally intended and very much a part of existing in Don Walker. Yeah, it's definitely channeling a specific vibe. And that vibe is kind of gothic vampire, like dark fiction, rather than The Witcher, which is a little bit more Hans Christian Anderson and the kind of still dark, often quite dark, you know, children's fairy tales. The really messed up ones, you know, where the kids die and stuff. Like The Witcher 3 is kind of more in that realm. But that also lets them get into kind of lighter and more fantastical realms,

especially like stuff that you saw in Blood and Wine in the DLC, where it was much more like, let's just do some fun fairy tale like riffs where, you know, it's no white in the seven doors, but a kind of bent weird witcher version. Like this game is not doing that. It's much more like, all right, let's do the vampire thing. But the vampire thing is cool. I mean, we haven't really talked about the vampire parts of this game,

but like being a vampire in a video game is awesome. I mean, I love Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, a great game, I mean, a very flawed game, but I think a very interesting one built on a cool role-playing system. There are cool vampire games out there because vampires have a distinct power set and lend themselves to video games. This is a great one, though, given that it lets you play both as a human and as a vampire, has this complex, moral, like, branching story full of moral choices, and where you can

kill so many people, you can play this game as an unholy terror. You can be, like, bamfing around on rooftops in the same. city, like just hunting civilians. Like, I don't actually know how that works. Like, if you do a full dark Cohen is just like Dracula, like playthrough. But I would imagine that it supports that. Yeah, that would be interesting. Yeah, where you're killing everyone and like Cohen kills Brenzis maybe.

And I don't know, becomes the like dark lord of the valley. Yeah, I would not be surprised. Yeah, that would be interesting. And shout out, by the way, to the teleportation of the way. Basically, dishonords blink. You can just blink around in this game, which is awesome. It is so fun.

and I appreciated that they give you an abilities moment and like a dream sequence really early on in the game where you kind of like have a dream that you're going to be a vampire, like extremely early. Because it's like, don't worry. Eventually the game's going to be sick as hell. And you're just doing all this like family stuff

that's at the beginning of the horror movie before shit gets really real. I thought that was clever. Thankfully, they don't make you wait too long after taking it away to get it again. And it is like a very fun way to get around. But that first time I was teleprone. of the dream, I was like, oh, this game's going to be really awesome.

And I think it's pretty cool that you can't do that in the day. Like, you cannot warp up onto a rooftop in the day. You simply walk around. You have to wait until night because you're a vampire and vampires can only come out at night. And that's a cool, like, another like adherence to this rigid kind of time structure that really serves the game. And in the end, makes it much more interesting because then you're like, okay, well, it's day.

I guess I got to go talk to that guy who's up in the day and like, go talk to that lady who's be around at night at night when I'm a vampire. And you even have to think, okay, that quest is going to be a night quest. So I need to be thinking about like my vampire build and do I have all the abilities that I need because I'm probably going to get into a big fight as a vampire, which works differently than fighting as a human and you have magic abilities when you're a human. Like that divide is so cool. It's, I can't really think of the last time I played a game that had like two character builds that manifest equally in the game and kind of you're bouncing back and forth between them. And they're both fun. Like I like fighting in the day and I like

like using the vampire abilities at night, but I don't miss them when I don't have them. And I think that is a tough balance to hit, and it's pretty cool that they did manage to hit it. Yeah, agreed. Cool. Well, this is a neat game, I think. I wasn't sure how it was going to go. I've been following it closely, of course, given the pedigree of the developers, but I just didn't know. I would read some previews and think, man, this could be cool or it could be not my thing. I'd watch, you know, that Gamescom or whatever, like a TGS, you know, or TGA video and think, all right, is the tone going to be good? Now that I finished it, I really liked it.

I'm really impressed with it. And I hope it's a success. I kind of feel, it feels to me like it will be, but I hope it's a success and that they get to make more. Yeah, it's going to hit. It's like the number two game on Steam, like ahead of launch. It's going to hit. There is a significant audience for this kind of game, and it's a very good game that will please the people who liked The Witcher 3.

Like, I think there's a lot of people. So my sense is it will be a hit. I hope it is because I want to play more. Like, this world they've built is very cool, and there is a lot left unexplored. Even though this game gets into a lot, it also hints at much, much more in a way that I find very tantalizing and intriguing. I want to know more. I want to see what is going to happen next.

And so I really hope they get to make another one, and that I get to port my saveover and see how all my choices are reflected in another game. All right, that is The Blood of Dawn Walker. Let's take a break, and then we will be back for one more thing. Hey, romance readers. What are you looking for? Brothers best friend, alien boyfriend, mothman, vampires. We got your cowboys, your dukes, your hot professors, your rock stars.

We got your shifters. We got demons. We got sexy fairies. You want a morally gray? No problem. Can't pick. Don't worry, sweetheart. We've got Y chooses up the wazoo.

Reading smut? The show where we read. spicy books and figure out why people love them. Join us on reading smut every other Friday on Maximum 5. Oh, that's a spicy book. Sleep is important, but it's difficult sometimes. I'm John Moe. On sleeping with celebrities, famous people help conk you out by talking in soothing voices

about unimportant things. Maria Bamford on parking. I parked in a bus stop. That's just not right. I am not a bus. Roxanne Gay on airports. My favorite airport is Indianapolis. It has a really smart layout.

Alan Tudik on yardsticks. You hand somebody a yardstick. Yard sticks become part of the family. Granted, it's a weird idea, but it's lots of fun. And it works. Listen, wherever you get podcasts. And we are back for one more thing. Jason, how about you go first?

Tell us about your one more thing. My one more thing is a book I read. while I was on vacation last week called the Wedding People by Allison S. Pock. Have either of you heard of this book? It was pretty popular in a couple of years ago. So this is a really cool book. It's a book about a woman who is a professor

in her late 30s. I think she's 39, my age. And she, who lives in the Midwest, and she, her life falls apart. Her husband leaves her. Her marriage breaks up. And when we open this book, we find her at this very high-end luxury resort where she has somehow gotten a room, despite the fact that a wedding party has booked the entire resort,

and she should not have been able to get a room. So people assume she's part of the wedding party. And she gets there, and she sees that there's a wedding there. and it's revealed fairly quickly in the first little bit that she has come there to kill herself and that she has booked this high-end resort because she always dreamed about going there and she's decided to end her life. And due to a comedy of errors, she winds up in the same room as the bride to be. And she tells the bride to be that she's going to kill herself.

And the bride to be is like, what the fuck, you're going to ruin my wedding if you do this. please do not do this. And they have a long conversation, and she winds up not doing it. And then we follow the two of them over the next, I don't know, six days or so, seven days as the wedding unfolds. They kind of lead up to the wedding and then the wedding. It must be fewer than seven days. I'm not sure exactly how long it is, but it's structured day by day. And we follow her life.

And we kind of we zip around, learn a little bit more about. her past, like why she, why her marriage fell apart, um, learn about, um, the bride, learn about the groom to be, um, learn about some of the other people there. And, uh, a lot of crazy things happen. And, uh, relationships do not go in the way that you, they, they were planned to have gone over the course of these days. And it's a really cool book. It's got a lot of, um, uh, almost like, I don't know, Quentin Tarantino style long. dialogue exchanges where people are just kind of talking about like nothing but also a lot of things just kind of big lofty ideas and there's a lot of really interesting just kind of scenes like

that where it's just a ton of dialogue and just people exchanging ideas that I thought was really cool and really well executed and I really enjoyed it. I think it's a it's a really good book. I can see why it's so popular. Sold like a million or two million copies or something like that. And it's a good, really, I thought, emotional exploration of relationships and marriages and people being their best selves and people feeling comfortable to be around one another in various ways. And yeah, it's a cool book. I enjoyed it. The Wedding People, Allison S. Batch, check it out. Nice. Yeah, sounds good. Maddie, how about you? What's your one more thing? My one more thing is a docu series called Monsters of God.

That is, it's five episodes, although I've only watched the first four because the fifth one comes out like around the time that this episode that you, the listener, are listening to comes out. But we've really enjoyed it. It is a docuseries about people who find or procure reptiles and see. sell sometimes illegally reptiles to zoos and other people who collect reptiles obsessively. And it's been compared to Tiger King, but I never finished Tiger King because I found Tiger King pretty unsavory and exploitative and the kind of tone of the documentary I really didn't care for. And this I feel very differently about. I think it's a very even-handed exploration of some. pretty unsavory people who are really wild characters who are describing times that they've broken

the law very proudly and mistreated animals pretty proudly. But I think that the reporters who created it, it's kind of partially based on this reporter, Brian Christie's nonfiction book, The Lizard King, and he's in the documentary, which I appreciated that he was like a big part of it. And also it's directed by this guy Eric Good, who's like kind of a character in the documentary as well. and I personally enjoy when a documentarian is part of a documentary and kind of breaks the fourth wall and talks a little bit about how they went about getting their interviews. I appreciate that.

I will say it doesn't quite have a plot exactly in the way that sometimes documentaries have like a plot or like series of events that they're following. It's more just like let's dive into this extremely specific, at times upsetting subculture and just really go ham on interviewing all. of these guys. And the reason it's possible is because many of the guys, and it's almost entirely mad in the documentary, are like in their 70s and older. And so the statute of limitations is up,

or they've already served time in prison for their crimes and they're out now. And they're like, I now I'm just ready to talk about the crimes I committed. And in some cases, brag about them because I still think I'm a huge badass. And that is really interesting to watch. So we enjoyed it. It's called Monsters of God. It's a really detailed look into a hyper-specific subculture of guys who... Wait, I just want to understand this. So the crimes they are committing is smuggling these lizards. Slealing, sometimes, like, going to Madagascar and going to remote islands and the keys

and, like, taking iguanas from their natural habitats unlawfully and then smuggling them over borders and on flights and in wooden boxes and selling them to pretty, high-profile zoos that are now implicated in these crimes because the zoos sort of turn a blind eye to this and it sort of documents how, especially in the 80s, but even prior to the 80s, reptiles became extremely popular with people and like after Jurassic Park in particular, they became wildly popular and tons of people wanted to buy them and own them and where did all these reptiles actually come from? Not always fair or legal means. And that is, is just as subcultures. I really didn't know anything about it all, but find fascinating.

I also think reptiles are really cool. So I, it's a little sad if you think reptiles are cool because there are definitely, uh, some depictions of them being mistreated here. But you also get to learn a lot about an industry that is I, I didn't know about. So yeah, if that appeals to you, I suppose you could also read Brian Christie's book, The Lizard King, but I've, I enjoyed watching this. It's called Monsters of God. It's on HBO. What do you think are the chances that we're going to interface with a version of that subculture in Grand Theft Auto Sense. Oh my God. Hi, because a lot of this is set in Florida.

A huge amount of the show is set in Florida. Because Florida is such, it's like just in the perfect spot in the world to like interface with all the South American reptiles and all the African reptiles coming in. And like all, it's like the trade routes are all centering in Florida. There's so many Florida man characters in this docu series. It's just Florida man after Florida man. It would not surprise me if there's a side quest in that game where you have like a couple alligators in the trunk or something.

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That seemed kind of like there could be some crossover there. Nice. Well, that sounds really interesting. Well, my one more thing is reading out loud to someone. It is an activity, not a specific piece of content, though it is tied to the books that I am

covering on my new podcast, definitely fiction, which I already told you all about. I am a huge proponent of this now. This is something I had never tried before. And I absolutely love it. That's because you do not have children. Ah, but Jason, I knew you would say that and I was ready for you because that is not what I am talking about. Yeah, I don't have children and I have written out, I've read out loud to people many times. No, I, well, I didn't suggest that that's what you were talking about.

I just said you had never done it before because you didn't have children. Because having children naturally makes you do it. That's all I'm saying. No, it's not what I'm talking about. I have read many books to my nieces. and love reading them books. It's a super fun thing to do. Oh, okay.

So you're talking about something else entirely. Correct. And I will tell you what I am talking about. I am talking about reading a book, a novel, an actual, like, adult piece of fiction out loud to another person. For me, that's my wife, Emily. We have been reading back through the Vorkosigen saga together at night, and we take turns reading chapters to one another.

And it has been so freaking cool that I wanted to talk about. it on the show and just suggest it because I think there might be some people out there who will just hear this and think, you know, I've thought about doing that before and I'm going to finally do it, or I'd never thought about doing that before and I should try it. This is something I thought of doing a while ago just, you know, that'd be kind of interesting. We could do that. That might be nice. And then just never followed through on it. But specific to the Vorkosigan saga, these books, I read these books because of Emily.

I'd never heard of them. Like, I'm sure so many people out there, I was like Vorkosigan, what the fuck? Like, what is that word? It's ridiculous. Yeah, you're like me and Jason. I mean, that was my reaction. And so every time Emily would say that to me, she would be like, you know, you should read these books, the Vercococan books.

And I was like, okay, I believe you. Maybe I'll read them one day. And then one day I finally started reading them. And I was like, oh, man, these are good. And then by four or five books in, I was obsessed with them. And, you know, then, of course, talking about them on triple click and trying to get everyone to read them, just like Emily had to me. So my friend Sam is one of those people.

I got him to read the books. And by the time he got to the fifth book, I reread it along with him and was like, dude, you know, we're talking about it so much anyways. He's kind of a natural podcaster, and I was like, we should make a podcast about this. We should just see how it goes. So we went back, we recorded one on the first book, and it was great. And I was like, we're going to make a show. And that means that I'm going to reread this entire series.

But I read them not that long ago. So that was when I decided, you know what? Emily hasn't read them since, you know, more than 10 years ago. What if we read through them together? And we did it in this way. So we tend to read at night. We're in bed at night, you know, before going to bed. and if we're in bed early enough, we'll say, hey, let's read a chapter.

And we take turns, one of us reads a chapter to the other one. So it is actually very different than reading a book to a child, which is very fun and a kind of great and very distinct kind of experience. But reading a piece of fiction to your spouse or a friend or a significant other, just like super different. It's more like you're performing an audiobook. And then you also get to listen, which is something that you don't really get to do when you're reading. books to your kids because every other chapter, Emily reads to me. And so then I just get to sit and kind of have the audiobook experience of just like sitting still and listening to her. But then part of it is cool because there's an intimacy to it because it is like someone you know and you're telling a story

to one another. But also it lets you share a book, which is something that can be kind of hard to do with another person. You know, you can have a book club or you can kind of both read the book and then talk about it. But it's not really the same as like watching a movie together or playing a game together or listening to an album or going to a concert together. Like, it's just a different thing where when you're taking turns reading chapters, you know, you'll then talk, we'll talk about it afterwards. We'll be like, oh, man, that was so funny. Or I'd never realized that happened.

And also, I find I read a lot of books, but listening to one and also reading one out loud really causes me to consume the book differently. Like, I internalize it differently. I take much longer with it. I catch so many things I wouldn't have caught. Some of that is because, like, we're taking notes and I'm leaving markers since I know that I'm going to be recording an episode about the book that we're reading. But also, it's just the process is different.

You know, the process of reading a book out loud. It's just something that almost no one ever does. And it's cool to pick a series like this. Like, I'm still reading books to myself. And that I find to be a really wonderful way to experience a book, too. Like, I wouldn't want to replace reading to myself with reading out loud to someone. It's nice to just be like, these books we read out loud to one another. And then during the day or whenever I'm reading, you know, whatever I want to read.

But I highly recommend this. Like, I really recommend giving this a shot. It doesn't have to be to a spouse. It doesn't have to be with someone you live with. I could imagine a group of people getting together once a week and like three or four people even taking turns, reading a couple of chapters for like an hour or two while you have drinks. Like a kind of different way to do a book club where instead of everyone reading on their own

and then coming together to talk or, you know, to say, I didn't read the book, let's just drink and like talk about something else. You can actually read the book at the book club. And I'm sure there are book clubs out there that do this, you know, or that listen to audiobooks together or something. Like, I'm sure this is not a new idea. Telling stories to one another is like one of the oldest things humans I've ever done. But it has felt revolutionary to me. It has felt incredibly cool.

It's been a great way to experience specifically these books, the Vorkosigan books, which are just really fun. They're not too long. Each one, like, they have a lot of great new words that you're learning and just a lot of hard-to-pronounce sci-fi stuff. But also, they're just these great stories about fun characters. You get to kind of act out a lot of really funny and, you know, enjoyable sequences. And it's just been a lot of fun. So my one more thing is reading out loud to another person and specifically another adult or another group of people, sort of adult fiction, as much as fun as it is to also read books

to young children. I love that. What's intimidating about those books is how many there are, like knowing that, how much of a commitment it is, less so than the name. I will say to that. The books are, these are not Brandon Sanderson epics. Each book is really pretty doable. You would, you're a fast reader.

You would read them very quickly. And Buzold is the master of just establishing the stakes, setting up the scenario, and then she just goes. Like, every, she's so good at this, like, giving you a new setup and then just like, bam, pedal to the metal, let's go. And then you just tear through the book to the end. And they all worked like that. So there isn't a book like, you know, a Sanderson book where you're like, oh my God, it's been like 800 pages and we're still like not even close to the end. Can you just read it to me?

I would. I would love that. Maybe when we finished Big Walk, the three of us can start getting together and just like reading through some books together. Just reading each other chapters of a book? We can do it in Big Walk. We could. We could just sit in Big Walk.

We could just sit in Big Walk. Just can't get too far away from one another. Yeah, just have to stay close. It would just be a slightly different way of looking at each other than us looking at each other on this video call. But a similar vibe. It really would be a wonderful thing for us to do to read a book together. It would be adorable.

Maybe one day. Maybe when we're all retired. We slow down in 20 years. Like golden girl's style when we're all living in this reality. We're just having cheesecake and reading books to each other. And now we would record it. It would be. It would be a lot. Oh my God. Okay. Fine. Maybe you say so. Yeah, that would be good. All right. Well, that is another episode of Triple Click. This was a lot of fun. I hope some people out there will check out my new show. Definitely fiction. All the links are in the show notes. Go check it out. I'm very excited. And yeah, I can't wait for some of you to check it out.

guys going to be doing the entire Varkozyan Fercocan saga and then doing like a new series? Good question. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to read the whole Verkosigan saga. That's 17 episodes. And then we'll see. But yeah, that's kind of the plan is that we'll read something else. So like Miss Born after that or like something. I don't think we'll do Sanderson, but we'll pick some author and do some kind of series of books. Probably

something smaller just because this is a huge undertaking and we'll do maybe a few smaller things, then commit to something bigger. There's a lot of of options. But we'll see. I mean, maybe by then we'll just be like, this was cool. This can just be a one-off. Yeah. We made this thing about the Vorkosigan books and now it just can exist. And that would be fine too. You should do six of crows next. That would be fun. I've thought about it about doing Bardugo, about just that duology. And that would just be like two episodes, which, yeah, which would be a lot of fun. So we'll see. But for now we're just launching the show. We're going to see if anyone's even interested. So hopefully some people are.

I bet they will be. Give it a lesson. Cool. I hope so. And yeah, this was a fun episode. and I will see the two of you next week. See you next time for some Z-Com talk. Yeah. Yeah. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ.

Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast. network and if you like our show we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximum fun.org slash join email us at triple click at maximum fund.org and find links to our merch store and our discord server in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximum fun. A worker-owned network of artist-owned shows. Supported directly by you.