Triple Click - What If You Could Just Turn Off The Microtransactions?

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

This week, the Triple Click gang opens up the mailbag and takes some of YOUR questions about all sorts of fun things.  Wouldn't it be nice if games let you turn off all the microtransactions? What's it like revisiting old games with a modern eye? And what are our favorite board games (aside from Candyland)???One More Thing: Kirk: Players Maddy: Neon WhiteJason: CrapsLinks:BitCulture’s remix of Maddy’s song “Bad Feeling” (feat. Kirk on sax) - https://maddymyers.bandcamp.com/track/bad-feeling-bitculture-remix-feat-kirk-hamiltonSupport Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy a Triple Click t-shirt: https://topatoco.com/collections/maximum-fun/products/maxf-tc-tclogo-shJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

You may be wondering the difference between a board game and a tabletop game. Well, it's simple. You play a tabletop game on a tabletop, and you play a board game only if you're really bored. Welcome to Triple Click, and I'm sorry for that joke, but we're still going to bring the games to you. This week, we're answering some listener questions about microtransactions, how games we played as kids might seem easier or harder now. Games that disturb us, our favorite board games, and much more. Here we go. I'm Kirk Hamilton.

I'm Maddie Myers. And I'm Jason Dreyer. Hello. Hello. Oh, hey, look who it is. It's us. My two favorite podcast co-hosts. Two favorite lowercase G gamers.

Lowercase G gamers as well. It's us three gamers. The lowercase G crew right up in there. That's what they call us. I've got a shirt that says lowercase G crew on it. People know what it means when I wear that when I go through town. I want a shirt that's like lowercase G and then capital A M-E-R. So it's like, G-M-R.

That sounds like. be good. Maybe the third game in the AI, the Somnium Files series. I was thinking the same. It's definitely the title of a Japanese game. Yeah. If we ever get another t-shirt made, we should get a lower, that t-shirt. That would be a very good t-shirt. That was a good one. I would wear that with lowercase G and the rest. Uppercase letters. Well, you're listening to Triple Click, a podcast about video games. We're very happy that you're here, and we'd be even happier if you became a maximum fun member. And we suspect that you too might be happier if you became a maximum fun member. It really does. It improves your life. You're helping support the creation of a show like Triple

Click and you get access to bonus episodes that we make. One per month. We just put out a new one about the marvelous, wonderful, absolutely flawless we could in two, 1998 video game that the three of us just completed and had no notes about in the end. Just loved it. Just loved it. it top to bottom. No, we had some thoughts, but we liked it. We didn't like some things. It was very fun. It's the end of a saga, and you can catch the end of that saga in the Maximum Fun bonus feed, along with other monthly bonus episodes. We did Eldon Ring recently. We watched the diehard movies. We did Horizon Forbidden West, all kinds of stuff. Lots of good content. Yeah, lots of good content. We've done like 27 of those or something now.

So if you want to become a member and support our show, go to maximum fun.org slash join. That's the URL you want to visit and we hope that you do. And thanks to everybody who is already a member and supports our show. So before we get started, I want to shout out a cool thing that exists now that listeners can check out that they're probably hearing underneath me. So as listeners probably know, our own Maddie Myers, quite the singer, quite the songwriter, makes a lot of very cool music. Every now and then I do. Every now and then. And one of her songs was recently remixed by a a musician who goes by bit culture. That's right.

And somebody else, who's very good at playing the saxophone, was approached and asked to perform solo in this remix. That is true. That is true. It was our very own Kirk Hamilton. So now there is a triple-click musical crossover featuring Maddie Middy Myers and Kirk Hamilton on saxophone, the two of us playing together on Maddie's song, Bad Feeling, which is a dope song.

and you should totally check out the remix because I think this is the first time that Maddie and I have put out a musical thing together but probably won't be the last. It is. It is the first time we put out an official musical thing together. It will probably happen again. So it's really cool and shout out to BitCulture

because I think this remix is really awesome. He did such an amazing job and also he's been delightfully abashed at all the compliments. So I think people should definitely tweet at him is, it handles also bit culture and tell him how cool they think his song is because it's, it's adorable. So, yeah, really, really cool remix.

Yeah, so check that out. Just wanted to mention that up top. All right, Jason, what are we doing on this episode? This week we are opening up, the old mail bag. Can you have some sound effects of me? Is that like a Velcro on the top of the mailbag? Just asking for sound effects all over the place. It's like a little backpack.

No, it's like one of those bags that you get with a dollar sign on the end. except instead it as the triple click logo and then like a big piece of mail, like the email like the Gmail like envelope under the triple click logo. It is kind of, it's kind of hard to decide what sound effect that would be. Like I usually just go to the Apple like loops sound effects and they have a lot of sound effects, but I don't know if they have mail bag opening. What you have to do is AOL, you've got mail. Oh, okay.

You've got mail. So today we are doing some burning questions. As always, these are questions from our listeners. and as always you can send us your own questions at triple click at maximum fun.org. We read through someone, usually may read through every single one of them. We don't read all of them on the show, but we do read every single one. So your emails are not being ignored, even though sometimes we don't always have time to respond to all of them, unfortunately. But rest assured, if you send us an email, it was read by someone.

All right. Let's get started. We have some great questions today. This first one is from Emile. Maddie, you want to kick us off? Sure. So, Emil writes, I would love to hear your thoughts on micro-transactions.

I just discovered they would be present in Watchdogs, Legion, and lost all will to buy it. This email is from a couple years ago. Yeah, although I love the idea of Amel only now considering buying Watch Dogs Legion. I would like living in that world as well. Why not? You could be considering buying it now. That's true.

It could be there. Anyway, Emil continues. It's generally hard to find information about whether or not. a game has microtransactions. In the case of Watchdog or Ubisoft titles in general, it would be nice with a switch off button as an accessibility. As a parent, you could disable these targeted ads for your child or teen. I mean, since I've already bought your product, why does it have commercials?

Interesting way to think about it. Some friends, including me, would rather pay 50% or more for a product with no microtransactions. So I've been thinking about this a little bit because last night I opened up NBA 2K on my PlayStation 5 and I've never seen a game that's more egregiously filled of like notorious to start the game just to start the game you have to close two different menus that are both trying to convince you to spend like 20 bucks on shit. Yeah. You walk around this little town and it's just full of people trying to get you to spend money

on something or another. It's really just like a giant massive casino. Isn't there, is that the game with the state farm representative as a character in the game? Yeah. Really? Yes. Well, there's also, I mean, it's just full-up plugs. At one point that you live with this guy and he's like, yo, we're out of Gatorade.

I drank all the Gatorade. Go get some Gatorade. And that's like a quest. It's the most delicious sports beverage and it replenishes the electrolytes for me. So please go get some more. Yeah, it's quite something. It's like living in a weird corporate city where you just walk around and various corporations are talking.

I like this idea of having a switch off button for all my church. I like it's never going to happen because it would be too easy and simple. and make things too much better, and then companies wouldn't be able to make as much money. But it would be so nice if you could just flip a setting that was just like no microtransactions anymore. Right. Yeah, it would be nice. What would it take for that to happen? I guess it would be legislation, right?

There would need to be some sort of law passed where companies are required to give that option or like if you're selling to a certain age group. I could kind of imagine it. I mean, I can't imagine the political will to make that happen. But I do feel like that's what it would take for that to be a kind of stand. standardized option across the industry. But while I'm imagining that impossible world that doesn't exist, it's a nice world. It'd be nice if you could just know, you buy the game at this, you know, you whatever,

maybe you pay extra or you just opt out and then you just turn that off. And then that is just taken out of your game entirely. That would be wonderful. It's a great idea by Emil. Yeah, although it does change how a lot of games would work. Like, for example, Fortnite, most of the microtransaction, and believe all of them are aesthetic in Fortnite famously. There's no pay-to-win system in that game

as there is a Diablo Immortal, which we talked about not too long ago. But for Fortnite, let's say Well, we should say we're talking about premium games, not free to play games. I think for the sake of this conversation. Well, but I don't know if it's that different because what if there was something you could pay for Fortnite that was like

a subscription where it's just like you pay this and every time you'll get every item and you don't have to worry about micro-transactions ever and you're paying more in order to get all the items? Would that work? Because I know the defense of micro-transactions and also battle passes and ongoing ways to get players to pay more money, sometimes on top of already paying $60 or $70 is, well, it's how these game devs stay in business. How else are they going

to sustain an income? Because more and more people are playing and buying the game and this is just another price model. So is there some other way that feels less crappy than pay? paying $1, $12 times. Yeah. I mean, I do think there's, it's hard to consider it across every type of video game, which I think Jason is kind of where you were getting at. It's just that it, the minute you're considering every kind, it's very complicated and there's a bunch of different models. If you do just look at a game like Watch Dogs Legion, that's where it becomes at least possible to imagine something like Emil describes, where you buy the game and then there's just no stuff within

the game. Because I could see, just as a parent, using that kind of specific lens, yeah, you buy your kids something and then the thing that you bought them is immediately like, hey, buy this extra stuff. Hey, buy this stuff every time they turn it on. That would really turn me off as a parent. And I would love to have, you know, I would certainly want a way to turn that off. Yeah, it would be maybe the, instead of just filling these like deluxe and ultimate additions

of these games up with crap, maybe they should sell it as like, hey, you buy the ultimate edition and this game will have no microtransactions in it. Isn't that kind of, I mean, there are mobile games. and mobile apps that do work that way. Where if you pay a dollar or two, it turns all that stuff off and you get the ad-free. When I can do that with a game I like, when I have the option to pay $5 to just never see an ad again, that's always really nice. And I mean, that's what I do for Hulu, for example. I pay more for the version of Hulu that doesn't have ads, which is no different.

I mean, it's the same idea. Basically, you're not going to try to sell me more stuff because I'm paying extra. And so those models, I guess, exist, but they're totally unregulated and not kind of. consistent because everybody just does something different. Like, oh, I'm going to talk more about Paramount TV Plus, because that's my one more thing, is a show from that, because we've been watching some shows on that network. And that network doesn't have ads, but at the beginning of every show you watch, they show you an ad for other Paramount TV Plus programming, which is pretty standard,

but you can't skip it. At least we're watching through Roku and you can't skip it, which is very annoying. And I wish they would change that. So it's like, that's a very subtle difference between that and say, I don't know, HBO, which lets you skip the things. But because there's no standardization, you never really know what you're going to get, which is certainly then true for video games too. I think what Ubisoft should do is they should offer a bonus game to anyone who becomes a max fun member. So helps them support their company. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, they should just have subscriber-only content. They should have a bonus audio tier. Let's get to you another question. Kirk, you want to read this one? Sure. This question comes from Sean, who writes, In the last month, I found myself playing newer versions of some games I played in the 90s as a kid. Specifically, I've been playing Super Mario 64 and recently played the remaster of Command and Conquer Red Alert that came out a few months ago. Looking back, I was probably too young to be playing a game like Red Alert, but I have an older brother

who showed me the game and I loved it immediately. What struck me was how different it felt It wasn't that violent I think it's fine What struck me was how different it felt Playing these games now Compared to my memory of them I never got all 120 stars in Mario 64

But back in the day I considered myself quite good at the game I remember running through later levels with ease And using shortcuts to time myself on the last Bowser stage However in Red Alert I always found the game far too difficult To play the later missions in the campaign About halfway through there would always be some mission Where I found myself unprepared for an enemy

and panicked leading to failure. Fast forward a couple of decades, and now my experiences have completely flipped. Playing Mario 64 again, all the stars condition feels clunky and uncomfortable like trying to build an IKEA table with only a hammer when other tools are clearly needed.

Very good way of describing playing a Nintendo 64 game in 2022. Then, when playing Red Alert, I find the campaign almost laughably easy, and I'm left wondering why I was so intimidated by the meager forces of the AI enemy. Have any of you experienced something similar? Have you gone back to, revisit a game from your childhood only to find your experience of playing has completely flipped.

Well, Jason, I guess I would ask you this first, since we did just finish playing a game from your childhood. Did you find anything like this with Suikodin, too? No, but I think I played that late enough that it doesn't really count as a child. Because I was like 12 or 13 when I played that game. So it's not like, I think the teenage experience is very different than like six to 10 year old experience of playing games. But I was actually thinking this red alert reference made me think of Warcraft 2, which I recently loaded up on my computer. You're thinking about this too. I recently loaded it up on my computer.

And as a kid, I think I had been really into using cheat codes. But even when I didn't use cheat codes, I found it pretty easy as a kid or like I was able to beat it. As an adult, I'm like, man, this game is fucking hard. Maybe it's because I'm so used to StarCraft 2, which is a game I play almost every day. day and I'm very used to like a different kind of RTS feel but I found Warcraft too to be very difficult replaying it today also very sluggish and lame and uh kind of strange how all the character all the races are mirrored um so like uh every single unit on the orc side is identical to every single unit on the human side except for the casters but that's a minor thing um so basically

it's like instead of it being a strategy it's just like whoever starts attacking first like if you have three grunts against three footmen, whoever starts attacking first is going to win. But yeah, no, I found that interesting. What about you guys? I think I like the premise of this question only because it is true for me as well that there are more arcade-y or, you know, reflex-based games

like Mario 64, that when I played them as a kid, you know, I was just sort of adjusting to the controls and that was the best there was. And that when I play those now, the controls make a way bigger difference to me now. where playing a Nintendo 64 game to me feels just terrible because the controls are weird and I'm just not used to them, where a strategy game is a little more cerebral, like it's more about your own understanding of the strategy and keeping all of the units in your head straight.

And that's just something that does get a little bit easier as you get older. So it's like the kind of difficulty has changed of the two games. And as a result, like your brain also has changed. So your relationship to that difficulty would change. And I've certainly found that to be true. I know there are. Yeah. You know, classic side scrollers.

Although also, I mean, Mario 64, it's just a 3D, since that was the first essentially 3D platformer, and 3D platformers have evolved so much over the years. I think the main reason that feels clunky is because it is super clunky compared to modern games. I was supposed to, if you go back now and play Super Mario World, that game plays like a dream. Like, it just feels like the total, the quintessential 2D platformer in a way that still hasn't been beaten today. So I think it's more the game itself than it is, how old you were. when you played it, as opposed to something like Red Alert where maybe it's a little bit clunky today,

but you're playing a remastered version, and as long as you can control your dudes and maneuver them, I agree with you that the cerebral aspect is really what makes it easier today than it did when you were a kid, but I think it's, in Mario 64's case, it's the game more than the person. Yeah, it's that we were flexible about games that were not a perfected version of the control scheme,

you know, in this case, 3D games. Well, we didn't know any better. That was the perfect thing. That's all there was. No, right. Like we played Golden Eye and got really good at those bananas, controls. We're playing them now. It's like, you know, there's a way better way of doing this, right, guys?

Exactly. Yeah. It's funny, though, because my internal examples were going to be Tetris and Pac-Man and really simple arcadey games where the controls were so straightforward that that is actually the best possible way to play those games. There isn't really a better way than just a joystick and a buttoner. two other than, you know, I mean, I was just playing them on the Game Boy, but I remember that just taking up hours and hours and hours of my time and being able to play them endlessly

because I had nothing better going on, whereas as an adult, I guess it on the Get Played podcast recently actually, we talked about Pac-Man and I was like, wow, I don't have the stamina emotionally to play Pac-Man for very long anymore. I have other things going on in my life. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like that is part of the problem. Like it's not just a skill thing. It's like, I don't want to play Pac-Man for that long anymore.

Right. But the other- It's a different kind of challenge, but that's very true. Yeah, it's like a time challenge and like an awareness of time. Yeah. Yeah. And the other example I have, I feel like I have the first half and not the second half of this story, which is that as a kid, I really liked this game, Amazon Trail,

which is sort of a lesser-known Oregon Trail sequel. And I could never beat it. And I'm not actually sure why. But as a child, I was convinced. that the game had no ending and that it was impossible to beat because I felt as though I had tried everything and I always died at a certain point in the river and I just couldn't figure out why. Like I would, there's some sort of RNG involved where like I would just always roll in order to get malaria there or whatever.

And I was like, I guess you just can't ever get past this part. But I've, like, tweeted about this every few years because I'm obsessed with the idea of it. And people have told me they've beaten the Amazon Trail and that I am wrong. And I feel like I need to go back and beat it and find out. why? You should stream it. It was hard. It's, I don't know if it's a fun watch. Did you ever play, I see me played Oregon Trail. Did you ever play Oregon Trail? Did you ever play Oregon Trail two? They made a sequel to that game. I think I did. I kind of remember it. You had to like fill your card up with all these different items. There were like dozens of items you could buy and some of them were ridiculous.

Like you could fill your car up with like a grandfather clock that did nothing but was super valuable and super heavy. And it's ridiculous. It's like pick different types of instead of just getting rations. He had to pick specific types of food that you could get. It was really bizarre. Was there like a second act twist where you became a deer and that you had the hunter? They made you really think about both sides.

Yes, see what it feels like to run from the hunters. As you're going, you hear this voice in your head that you assume as God saying, would you kindly call you remember? Interesting. Would you kindly be part of the imperialist expansion of the United States of

America? And then the end. Oh, you had no choice. You were the final ox that died. You were manifest destiny all along. Um, all right. What a twist. Here is a question from Benjamin. Benjamin says, I picked up the Stanley parable and I loved it years ago. And while I bursted out laughing for a few minutes this time with a new version, I quickly found a scene of child endangerment. And soon after, a disturbing image of animal violence. And now I don't want to play it anymore. And yet, maybe I still do? How do you handle a game when it emotionally affects you? Regardless of whether y'all talk about my question on the air, I appreciate the safety. space you create with your audience and being able to talk about my experience here's now.

Thanks for the show and helping me through the difficulties of life. You are a bright spot. You're very welcome, Benjamin. Yeah, how do you guys handle a game when it impacts you like that? Sort of disturbing. I guess maybe I'm my my feelings are just numbed but it's been a while for me since I've got that doesn't really get disturbed anymore. I'm going to do there, Kirk. That's hilarious. Like I guess I know there are games like I'm thinking of a game like something deliberately you know provocative like hatred where you're just murdering innocent civilians or that sequence in modern warfare or like sort of old school examples like you know the way

the sex workers are depicted in GTA and how you quote unquote have to kill them in order to get your money back and just kind of that game design ethos like with that kind of thing at least I can just avoid it where something like no Russian I guess you can skip no Russian but I remember playing through that, and I found that pretty distressing. Yeah. Or the torture sequence in GTA-5 as one that's a story sequence that you can't really skip, or at least you couldn't when I played it. There's a torture sequence in Blackups One, I want to say.

I think that's the one where you feed glass to a guy. Yeah, it's kind of a button less interactive than GTA-5. But yeah, so, you know, I guess there have been things like that. I typically, since I'm always playing games with my critic hat on, I just sort of do it and play through it just because I know I kind of remove myself from it and think about it in that way

and know that I'm going to have some thoughts about it and talk about it. Certainly no Russian was that way. It was a very talked about mission. This is, I'm sure a lot of listeners know it if you don't. This was in modern warfare too. You played this one-off mission where you just shot a bunch of innocent people

in an airport. You're a spy taking part in a terrorist organization. Right. And he goes all in method acting style and kills a lot of innocent people. Or, you know, I guess you can kind of just walk through it and not kill them. You can. Although you would think the other terrorists would really notice you doing that.

But for some reason, you can tell it. I mean, they kill you at the end of the mission anyways. So I think they already knew you were a spy. So they don't care. They're just trying to make you do it. I don't know, whatever Modern Warfare 2 is a mess. So I, but I remember being like, this is going to be distressing. And then I played through it.

I did shoot some civilians because I was like, well, okay, I'm going to play this thing the way you're supposed to. And it was messed up. And I felt bad about it. And the visuals are really. haunting and bad, and it kind of made me think about what you do in video games a lot and shooting people in games and how it's actually like never a great feeling, even though a lot of times games make it feel so good when you actually think about it.

It's kind of weird, and, you know, it was not a fun experience. It wasn't, you know, it didn't really get me or anything or make me feel super distressed, but it wasn't, it wasn't enjoyable. But I just engaged with it critically and then had a reason for my job and for, you know, for my own sort of professional edification to do it. So I tend to think of it that way, I guess. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I remember having a similar experience with The Last of Us part, too.

There are a few parts of that game that I would say are intentionally manipulating you to have a disgust reaction. I think that's part of how that game is working. A torture sequence in that game, too, actually. Yeah, there's some sequences where you, you know, you have to press a quick time event to torture somebody or kill somebody, and I would have my moments of paulcher. and putting my controller down and being like, I don't want to continue this, but I was reviewing it. And so, you know, I'd walk around my apartment and be like, why isn't this working for me?

And write down in my notes why I didn't think it worked. And that's, I guess, perhaps a slightly different way to think about a game than the average person because I was like, well, I'm going to beat this no matter what, I guess. But I also think it can be useful to think, why is this affecting me and what is it about the game that isn't working in this moment? And why isn't it working? And is there a version of this scene that I think would have worked better than this? And that question can be really interesting and sometimes helps me get out of my head when I'm legitimately upset. I don't know. Maybe people would be surprised to hear that. But there were some moments when I was legit upset playing The Last of Us part too. That isn't the only reason I disliked it because I do think

the game wanted me to be legit upset. And that can be a good thing. And that can be a good thing. it's like why I compliment a game like Celeste. That game made me upset, but in a way I thought was emotionally affecting in a smart way. But in the last one's part two, I didn't feel like it was worthwhile. And that can be interesting. That can be interesting to consider when you're playing a game. All right. Next question.

Maddie, take his way. All right. Keller writes, my question is, what are some of your favorite board games? I know this is a video. video game podcast, but I'm curious what board games really get you going. My friends and I are obsessed with Catan and my roommate recently purchased Root, which we are so excited to try. I feel like this is

just a Kirk Hamilton question. Although I've been playing a lot of Candy Land recently. Oh, that is terrible. Well, I hate Candyland. Don't get me started. What do you think of it, Jason? Well, it isn't really a game because you're not actually doing anything, but when you have a three-year-olds, when you have a near three-year-old who is very entertained by the colors and gets very excited when she says, too purple, then it can be a very good game. Yeah,

I remember playing that with one of my nieces when she was younger and just being like, this is just trash. I was like, it's terrible. The game critic part of you. I think I almost reviewed it for Kataku actually. I think I almost, I was like,

I should do Candy Land the Kataku review and then just rip it apart. And I never, I never did. I may have written about it or something. I don't think I ever did. Are you also going to just start reviewing children's video games and be like, oh, this is garbage. I think there are better. I think there are board games that are better, like, that kids can play.

Not until they're older. That's the thing. When they're at the sweet spot of, like, two to four, they can't understand, like, choice-based games. But it's fun for them to be exposed to, like, the idea of picking up cars and moving a piece on our board. So it's helpful in that sense. I was in your exact camp until I had a toddler. my own, I gotta say. This is just one of those parents,

real parents know. It is. It is. But anyway, answer the question, for real, though. I mean, so I've talked a lot about Gloom Haven. I do think Gloom Haven is a lot of fun. That's probably the most complex board game I've ever played. What's your favorite ever? I can't answer that. Probably Scrabble. I'm kidding.

I don't know. I'm not some board game expert here. I'm not some... Yeah, but you played a lot. Surely you can surely you have a favorite. I feel like we should answer, I mean, just because this is such a broad question, it's more fun to try to answer according to classic childhood board games, like the monopolies, Scrabbles and Connect Fours of the world. Guess who at all? I mean, those are great games. I mean, what was your favorite one? I haven't answered that. Oh, I love Scrabble. I think Scrabble is my favorite of all of those

kinds of games. Scrabble is quite good. My family didn't play a ton of Scrabble, so I didn't really get into it until I was a bit older. But my favorite childhood board game was this game called the Barbie game where you play as Barbie. And this is a game from like the 50s or the 60s. It was like an ancient board game that was my mother's. And you have to pick out your prom dress. And you have to, it's kind of like monopoly. You have to like sort of get social accolades of some kind as you go around the board.

I don't fully remember that aspect of it. But I do know that if you'd sort of like leveled up enough, you could get the hottest guy to go to prom with you. Or you could get, there was a guy named Poindexter. who was like the worst guy. Wow. I know. It was really cutthroat.

Continuing the anti-nerd nerd. I know. It was really anti-nerd. I mean, what are you going to do? Man. I really like Ticket to Ride. That's one of my favorite games. Oh, Tickets to Ride.

It's great. Ticket to ride, okay. You know what I really like actually as a game that we played a lot in my family when I was young? It was a game called Baldur Dash. Have I there of you played that game? Yes. Great game.

That's a really fun one because it involves some creativity. Sort of like early jackbox concept there. So that game, right. So that game is you're given a word and then everybody makes up a definition for it and submits it. And then you read all the words and you try to vote on what you think the real definition is. Right. Like the real definition is among the fake ones. Yeah. I play that game a lot in college with a lot of English majors who were all extremely good at coming up with fake definitions. It's fun to play with people who are good. Because people would, like, my friends would even come up with fake etymologies for words where they'd be like, this is for. from like this Greek root that I know or whatever and like or this you know British ancient word or whatever it was and they would be accurate but it would just not actually be the real etymology of that word. And then sometimes they'll get it because there are people who can figure out the word and then you get extra points if you actually figure out the definition or no. Yeah, this I feel like there is a jackbox game that is either this or very similar to this. Yeah, there is. There is. Well, and there was also there's another, there's the other way around where there's, I can't remember the name of the game where they'll give you the definition and you have to make up what the word is.

And so then it's basically the same idea. And I'll just say really briefly, since I have played a lot of board games, that anyone looking for really crunchy games, that Gloomhaven is very fun, and so is Star Wars Imperial Assault. And that root, which Keller mentioned, is a fantastic game. And I've talked about it before, but it's been a little while. But that game is really, really very good. It's complicated. But once you get going, it takes a few games to learn because each of the different sides is very different. It's a very Starcraft kind of a thing.

But once you've played as each of the major groups, it's so much. much fun as a just tactical competitive strategy game. So I do really love Root and recommend that game too. In February of 2020, I bought Pandemic Legacy and it is kind of untouched. Oh, man. I mean, I should say that too. Pandemic Legacy, one of the best board games I've ever played. Season 1 of Pandemic Legacy is incredible.

So cool if you ever can do it. Now that we're still in a pandemic two and a half years later, I don't know if it'll be attached. Let's get to a couple more questions. Kirk, do you want to read this next one? Sure. This comes from Ryan. Ryan writes, hello, triple click. I am curious on y'all's thoughts on the critical path for open and semi-open world games. I recently noticed that for some games, I followed exactly the best path for progress,

such that everything felt balanced and rewarding in Outer Wilds, Tuning, The Witness. While for other games, I've gone out of order or had bad luck, and I felt that the games were poorly balanced and frustrating, echoes of the eye, Eldon Ring, and Wildermith. Do non-linear games have a best progression order? If a player doesn't achieve this best order, is it the game's fault or just bad luck? How do some games like Eldon Rings still make it somewhat fun even if you're hopelessly off the path? How does ECO tag play a role?

Thank you, Ryan, for asking. That's the most important part of this question. Are these games accessible in terms of allowing players to extract the maximum amount of joy out of them? Is this inherent to the design of these games or can this problem be designed around? I love that definition of accessible. Sorry, keep going. I've noticed these games tend to be polarizing and I was especially surprised by how differently I felt about Outer Wilds and Echoes of the Eye

the two, like he really loved Outer Wilds and was frustrated by Echoes of the Eye. That's an interesting question. I don't know what are the two you think. I think it's interesting that he found that Eldon Ring, he went out of order in, because I feel like Eldon Ring is actually really good at signposting and saying, okay, you should do this and then you should do this. It's like, clearly you go do Godwin in his castle first, and then clearly the academy is next

and you just go do stuff around those areas. Yeah, I don't know, it's an interesting thing. I actually feel like most non-linear games at the very least will tell you where to go first and they'll give you like there will always be a clear introductory area. That said, there's an old game called Final Fantasy 2 which didn't come out officially in English for a while. It was just a depend only thing for a long time,

but it was essentially, well, not the first open world RPG, but one of them. And you could just walk in any direction and just immediately die. And it was... Fun of what I see you do. It was directed by this guy named because it's Kazahu Kowazu, Kowazu, who went on to direct the saga series, which is a series of games that deliberately fucks with the player at every possibility.

But anyway, point being that I think most open world games or most nonlinear games do push you in a certain direction now? I guess so. I'm also sort of intrigued that Ryan had a bad, experience with Eldon Ring and mentions having bad luck as part of that, which is sort of a funny image and can certainly happen in something like Eldon Ring where, yes, I agree, it's really well designed, but you can do some of it out of order to an extent where you could just so happen, go to several areas that were all wildly over-leveled for you, and then be kind of, you know,

grinding your way through them and then maybe become wildly over-leveled as a result of that and then go back and face lower level enemies and not find that fun. That's what I'm imagining Ryan might have done. And yeah, that would be too bad. But I feel like Eldon Ring out of all these these games is probably one of the best open world games for me, a person who generally actually prefers more linear games. Like usually when people complain about a game and they're like, oh, it's too linear. Oh, it keeps you on the path. I'm like, thank goodness. I'm not going to get lost in this one. I'm going to know exactly. what I'm supposed to do for once in my life. And I don't, I don't necessarily mean having a long

to-do list in the UI or whatever. That isn't my thing. But I do like not getting incredibly lost, which I used to get lost all the time in like GTA and Skyrim and everything and feel really overwhelmed by those games. So I don't know. I kind of like it when a game tells you where you're supposed to go next with Half Life 2-esque design cues, a subtle nod. There's kind of a different with some of these games. These are good examples that Ryan sent in. Because Eldon Ring, a lot of it is sort of tied up with your level and how difficult what you're supposed to be fighting is and there's a lot of numbers in that game. So if you just sort of go somewhere really hard, if you're in K-Lid at level 3, you're going to be getting crushed and the game is sort of

telling you, well, maybe go somewhere else, which is something that Dark Souls, of course, does really well, right? The very beginning of Dark Souls, you go into that cemetery and there's these skeletons that just wreck you and you're like, okay, well, maybe I'm going to go somewhere else. And you just kind of naturally go somewhere else, even though you can run through the cemetery and, you know, go way down and get the scythe and then be overpowered or whatever. You do the things that the guides tell you to do. But generally speaking, the game is telling you what to do. I think Outer Wilds is an interesting example. And when Ryan talks about good luck, there is a, I can see it feeling like there's an element of luck to Outer Wilds because I've talked to people who the first thing

they did was go to like, to go to the scariest worst place. in that whole solar system and then just spend forever in the fog getting eaten by terrifying anglerfish and they're like, what is this game? What are I supposed to be doing? But the game pretty heavily signposts that you should go to Giant Steep first.

Like it makes it pretty clear. Well, I've talked to people though who've done that. Like I think the game makes it possible for you to just go and do that. Of course it makes it possible, but they're clearly ignoring. I think when Ryan was talking about bad luck he was talking about more about echoes of the eye, which I think is more susceptible

because echoes of the eye really doesn't signposts where you should go at all. and you can wind up kind of screwing yourself in some ways. If you like, we've heard from a more than a few listeners, since we talked about it because of the eye last year, we've heard from quite a few people who accidentally discover, or like accidentally died to get into the Matrix world and then thought that was how you get in,

and then you can really screw yourself. So that's like a bad luck example, I think. Yeah, I mean, that's where I was going with that, is that outer wilds, and I'm talking about Underwilds, just in general, that kind of game. The distinction that I'm drawing is that Outer Wilds, is a game that does not have stats and numbers like Eldon Ring, where Eldon Ring

has all of these different ways of telling you that you're not supposed to be somewhere because just an enemy kills you in one hip because you don't have enough health. And that system just doesn't exist in Outer Wild. Well, well, you were just describing watering the fog and just dying, kind of tells you you shouldn't be there too.

Well, I guess so, but like you can fully explore you know, Brittle Hollow first. Like, that's not like you shouldn't be there. Like, you know, it's not like you need to level up before you go to Brittle Hollow because the game is completely horizontal. And then also, I mean, it doesn't have to be Brittle Hollow. It can be whatever. You know, if you don't basically- Yeah, what's the name of the planet with the like teleporting stuff? I think that was one of the places

I went too early in Outer Wilds and it's part of why my experience was really rough for the first several hours because I just couldn't figure it out. Like, you have to keep taking pictures in order to figure out where dark matter is. And it took me a while to get a hang of that and just, I mean, Outer Wilds is kind of opaque at points. Like it doesn't really hold your hand that much. I think Yeah, that's the point. Modded it, or not modded it, updated it since I played and changed at least some of the signposting for some of the harder puzzles. But it's tough. Kirk, you've been saying Brittle Hollow, but I think you meant Dark Bramble.

I did, yes. Sorry, Dark Bramble. I was trying to remember the names. And then what's the name of the big green planet with the water on it? Giants deep. Giant's deep. That's the one you're supposed to go do first. And essentially when you take off, they're like, well, if you're supposed to use the signal to find the astronauts and that's the closest one.

And also if you talk to people that are like, go check out Giant Steep first. That's the closest planet. Right, but we know plenty of people who will purposefully. Right, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I'm not, yes, yes. Leave that aside and just be like, well, I can go wherever. And the game doesn't actually have any method of forcing you there. So having gone to Giant Steep first, that's a great planet because there's a lot going on.

You bounce around. You get in the water. You learn about the physics. There's a lot. You can kind of solve. You find the person. You talk to them on the island. Like there's just a lot of that sort of stuff where if you go.

somewhere more challenging. I mean even Brittle Hollow would be maybe kind of weird. It can just feel a little bit more challenging. So I understand basically the luck that it can feel like luck is playing into that because it's just sort of where you decide to go versus oh this is very clear to me. I don't have enough health like I'm getting killed. I should just go here or there. The game has fewer tools for telling you where to go. It can just kind of have characters suggest to you where to go, which is a little a little bit more a A little bit more of a challenge, I suppose, from a game design standpoint. Let's try to squeeze in one last question.

This is from Sean. Sean says, I've been wondering how you guys, as games journalists, try to gauge where the gaming community, that is, those of us outside of the industry, stands on current news stories as a whole. In other parts of journalism, there are think tanks, pollsters, and research groups that try to figure out the opinions and thoughts of different groups of people. But I haven't really heard about an equivalent in the gaming world. Are there methods or resources you guys use to figure this out?

or do you have to just dive into forums or steam reviews and do the best you can? This is such an interesting question because it's something we talked about at Kataku all the time and how like there will be stories that are like, people are mad about this thing? And it's like, how do we really know that? Just because we gather 20 tweets. Is that really a scientific assessment of this? You just have to feel for the vibe. What I do is just I just think about what I feel about something.

And then I just assume that everybody feels that way. Right, right. Because that's usually true. That's never true. Yeah. More and more people are saying this is how I start an article every time. Many people are saying this. Yeah.

That they should remove the mini map from all the. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, you can kind of get a vibe. Like, for example, with the most infamous example is the Xbox One reveal. And you could really get a sense for just like looking at social media and Reddit and forums and stuff. Sometimes you could do Twitter polls and kind of find your own ways of doing informal surveys. But yeah, I think it's really a lot about. vibes and just reading enough community sentiment to get a sense about people are feeling about it.

But yeah, I do often wish or worry that there is no real good way to do it. And we need some pollsters in the video game field. That's what we really need. Well, and even polls don't tell you everything, right? I mean, if you follow much political journalism, people, there's always a problem of sort of, you know, is this really a problem or is this just Twitter, you know, because all the journalists are on Twitter? Like, that's a problem across industry. Or is this just all the people who were called on the phone by this specific polling company and who happened to be home?

Or the question. You ask the same question in two different ways. You'll get a bazillion different answers. I think one way that I at least get information that I find interesting is when people release money and player numbers. Like you'll see, you know, a game where I'll be like, oh, this game is terrible. I can't believe anyone would play this. And then they release the numbers. And it's, you know, whatever, millions and millions and millions of people played it and it made so much money. Like that alone, the specifics are often fudged or not clear, but it can give you a sense of, wow, there's a huge number of people who play this whatever trashy mobile game and love it and are willing to just pay all this money into it. And it can give you a sense just to kind of keep you honest or to help you keep in mind that there are a lot of

people who, for example, will play Diablo Immortal and not care at all about all the things that we complained about and have a great time and happily pay money to Blizzard. Kirk, what if I told you that Cyberpunk 277 sold 16 million copies in its first week at launch? That's a good example, though that one's a little tricky because that was sort of, a lot of that was based on pre-orders, and you could make an argument there around the marketing of the game being very effective. But the numbers, the numbers can be misleading too. I mean, there have been cases where companies are like, look how many copies in this game we sold.

and internally, actually they're really disappointed or underwhelmed by it, but they have to have to face. But, you know, like that it's a source of information that just like any of this information, I mean, all these things that Sean mentioned, Think Tank's Poulster, like none of those are things that you just take at face value. You all have to contextualize them all. Yeah, it's all a piece of the puzzle. Same thing is true there. So it's a lot of it is vibes, you know, it's just listening to how the people in our Discord talk are looking at the subreddit for a game and seeing how they're reacting. and that gives you a sense of the most engaged part of the community of this game,

which is something that matters, because it's like the people playing the game the hardest who are on the Reddit talking about it. That's what they say. We found this with Destiny, to use as an example. Go to the Destiny Reddit. That would give you a sense of what people are mad about. Okay, they change this gun and everyone thinks it sucks. They changed the loot.

These people are all mad about it. But you did have to bear in mind that there were maybe a million people on the Destiny subreddit at the time. and the game was being played by whatever, you know, order of magnitude more people. And a lot of people didn't even think about that stuff. So it's all balancing that information. This is so funny because I just had a conversation with a couple of friends

where we were talking about like, what would you say is your favorite video game of all time? And someone was like, Jason, one of yours is Destiny, right? And he's like, I thought you loved Destiny. Like, it was all you played. I was like, it was all I played, but I hated it. That doesn't mean I loved it. I kind of wonder that about the numbers on Diablo

Mortal too for what it's worth. It's like just because something has a whole lot of numbers and a whole lot of money was spent on it. Are people enjoying that? I don't know. Right. Or in five years will they say it's their favorite? Yeah, that's all relative. I mean, they had 10 million downloads,

but like it's a free game. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's meaningless. Yeah, right. Yep. Yeah, I don't know. Cool. All right.

Why don't we take a break and then we'll be back for one more thing. Al Lublin here with breaking news are a revolutionary form of entertainment. Professional wrestling. For more, we go to our correspondent, Danielle Ranford. Professional wrestling is the craze that's sweeping the nation, featuring Vistakos and colorful costumes.

But who can help us make sense of this world of body slams? Lindsay Kelk has the answer. Sources tellers of an amazing podcast called Tides and Fights, filled with discussions of the absurdity of professional wrestling, plus all the sincerity and hilarity that you could shake a sense. ticket. Listen to the tights and fights podcast every week. Find it on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts. And your old-timey radio. Hey there, I'm Ellen Weatherford. And I'm Christian Weatherford. And we've got big feelings about animals that we just got to share. On just the zoo

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you're back, Kirk Maddie, it is time for one more thing. I am going to go first because I want to tell you guys a story. So this weekend, uh, I went with a couple of buddies to Mohegan Sun, which is a casino, um, here in the Northeast in, uh, Unkisville, Connecticut. Um, and at Mohegan, at the casino, my game of choice is not blackjack or roulette or even poker, even though I enjoy some aspects of all those games. My game of choice is craps. Or rather be familiar with craps. I am. Have you played craps? I am to the point where before you went, I asked Jason, are you going to play craps? And you said yes. I assumed it would be your game of choice.

For the reasons, you're probably about to describe, it's pretty fun. Well, it is my game of choice for a couple reasons. One, it's the only game in the casino where you can actually get, not where you can eliminate the house advantage with specific bets. There are these bets called odd bets. But two, because it's a brilliantly designed game. Now, the way that craps works is essentially I'll give the very simplified version of it. There are two phases. The first phase is called the come-out roll, and basically, whoever is rolling

gets a chance to roll a point. So let's say I get a six. Then we go to the second phase. Yeah, rolling dice. Rolling two dice. Then we get to the second phase, which is the point phase. And now my goal is to roll another six before I roll a seven. If I roll seven, I lose, everybody loses, goes to the next dice roller. How many, can I ask, how many dice are you rolling at a time? Two at a time. I have two in my hand that I'm really in time. So seven is the most common number, which is why it's the loss. But there are still, you can still roll a six before you roll seven.

And so the way that it works is, and the reason it's a brilliant game is because, in theory, I could keep rolling infinite number of times without hitting a seven. Because if I roll a six, that means that we hit the point. Everybody cheers. Everybody won, especially if you put odds, which, again, are the best bet in the house, which is what I do a lot. and you can win a lot of money that way. And then I get to roll again.

And let's say I roll another point. I roll a five. And then as long as I don't roll a seven when I'm in this point phase, if I roll another five, that's another winner. I could keep doing this infinitely in theory as long as I never roll a seven during the point phase and just make tons and tons of money for everybody. And so it's really, it's the one game in the casino that can create this feeling of like being on a hot streak in a way that is just incredible.

The euphoria of it is incredible. And everyone else is rooting for you. you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. People like I've seen cases where like people will tip the hot dice roller. It's like it creates a sense of camaraderie. It's where you get the beautiful dame to blow on the dice before you roll. In classic Hollywood fashion. Nothing like the old man with like the 20 something woman next to him. That's that's like the key to craps victory. So I love craps. I've always love craps. Very easy to lose a lot of money very fast, but also very easy to win a lot of money very Fus. Anyway, so here's my story. So, a Mohican son at the craps tables, they have a bet that is called a fire bet.

And a fire bet is very much a silly long shot bet where you put a few dollars down, in this case it was $5. And you are essentially saying, I am betting on this specific dice roller to hit the points for up to, so there's six potential points you can hit. Four, five, six, eight, nine, and ten, right? So you're saying with this fire bet that I think this roller is going to roll a four and then another four and then a five and then another five and then a six and then another six without ever rolling a seven during the point bets right you guys are following so far so every time you hit one of those points they put a little marker down it's a fire marker and the idea is the more you get the more money you will win from this fire bet so if he hits four points you will win 25 to one if he hits five points you will win 250 to one if he hits six

points you will win a thousand to one so potentially five thousand dollars from that six point roll right I did this every time I played crops this weekend, which was a lot. Every time that we had a new round, I would put down five on the firebed. So, cut to Sunday morning. We're about to leave. I'm playing a little bit of crops before. Just got a coffee, going to play some crafts, then we're going to hit the road. I get up to this table.

There's this old guy standing to my left. This guy, he's probably in his 90s. Everybody knows him. They call him Mr. B. He seems like a regular who's like there all the time. He's cracking jokes. He's hilarious. I get there.

Justie's about to start rolling. I put money down. say, can I join in? They say, sure. Because usually you don't want to join in when someone has already started rolling. It's considered bad etiquette. So I wanted to, I jumped in just as he was about to start. I said, can I get a fire vet? They said, no, it's too late. So this guy starts rolling. He rolls a five, then hits a five. He rolls a six, then hits a six, rolls a four, then hits a four. He rolls a ten. He's got four fire butts on the table. By this time, one of my friends has come over. I turned to my friend. I'm like, I don't have a firebed here.

If he gets the firebed, I'm going to shoot myself. Guy rolls a nine. hits a nine rolls an eight the table is going crazy at this point just to reiterate anybody who bet the fire bet which is a lot of people at this table will win five thousand dollars from that bet if he hits an eight five thousand dollars from a five dollar bet needless to say he hits an eight everybody goes crazy they are tipping him cheering the dealers are like someone tip the dealers or the dealers even won four grand out of it I'm sitting there I'm just like I cannot believe this just happened to me the one the one the one single round of crafts that I played.

If you'd skip that coffee, man, you just gone there. I know, right? If I just gone there without getting coffee. The one single time that I was there without making the vet, I did not get it. I missed out on $5,000. This is going to haunt me for the rest of my life. That's why they say the early gambler gets the firebed. Oh, my goodness.

This is actually just why you're always going to place the firebed every single time. I mean, they got it. No, even more so, yeah. No, that's not really how probability works at all. That's how superstition works, though. It's so funny because it's such a. stupid long shot bet that normally I wouldn't make like a lot of people make the dumbest possible bets and craps really anything other than the odds is a dumb bed in crafts but people are like

oh yeah I'm betting on the 11 like give me the hard four the hard whatever like all sorts of dumb bets and that's all well and good but it's almost like there's an irrational component of gambling or something there is the one time the one time everybody the guy watching him hand out these like thousand dollar chips to everyone around me, I'm just like seething. And I won money because like it was a good role in general. Like he had a hot shooter. But that wasn't enough for you. But well, I mean, when you, when you, it's like losing $5,000 at the table.

You're like, man. Anyway, that's my story. Maddie, what's your one more thing? I don't bet on anything. My one more thing is neon white, which is a video game. Yeah, it is. It's a video game for PC. I got it on Steam.

Got a code for it. This game. is very pleasing to play for me personally. I really enjoy this video game. I could lose hours and hours and hours of my life to this video game. This is a first-person shooter. You can also jump and you also get a variety of other abilities. But what I would really say it is is a puzzle platformer,

a 3D puzzle platformer where there are very, very short, carefully designed levels. and the key is to defeat each of them as fast as you possibly can. And you get a variety of abilities that only last for one round per ability by picking up cards on the ground. So like one card is a double jump. And another card is like shooting forward really fast. And there are levels designed around where those cards are located and then also little shortcuts you can get to each card.

And also there's demons everywhere because like you're in heaven and you're trying to kill demons or something. There's a plot. I'm not that big of a fan of the plot. I think it's fine. Mostly I'm into perfecting my times. I am not very good at me on white. I'm fine. But it's so fun to just keep trying to shave more and more seconds off your time. I don't know what it is about it. It's just really well designed. I wouldn't have thought I would be a person who's like, I just got to get a little faster at this. I'm not into speed running. I'm not like the person who plays racing games and is really good at them. In fact, I'm usually. quite terrible at them and get motion sick from them. But this game, I don't get motion sick at all. And I just, I don't know, I really, really like getting a little bit faster each time. And usually you can do it, even if by a few nanoseconds, and that's enough for you to feel like you're making some progress. And also the level design is good enough that you can kind of take a break from a level, go try another one. And it just, I don't know, it goes on and on. And it's really fun. And best or perhaps worst of all, it will automatically pull in the times from all of your steam friends.

at the end of every level, and it will tell you if you have performed better than your boss, Chris Plant, or not. And that sort of thing is what I really like to know, is whether or not I've... Well, that's what is appealing to you. The competition. Well, it also tells me whether I've performed better than my friends, Gita Jackson, Niko Deo, et cetera, et cetera. And if the two of you were to start playing it, for example, I would then get to see if I were

better than you. I'm constantly chasing Manny Myers' time. I'm sure you can beat me easily. My friend Tyler Kolp over a PC gamer is like the top of every leaderboard though. I can't beat him, which is infuriating. So it's going fine. My brain's fine. I'm definitely not obsessing about everyone's times.

And I have a healthy relationship with neon white, a cool video game that I'm enjoying. Yeah, I think it's really fun. I've been playing on Steam Deck with gyro aiming, which is important because this game would probably be great with a mouse and keyboard. It does reward precision, but it works with the gyro. And I think that, yeah, I think that the pacing is a big part of what makes it so far. fun is that the levels are very short and then you instantly start them over. You can just press a button and start over instantly with no downtime. And then I do like the leaderboards, not because I get all competitive, but because they sort of tell me what's possible. And so if you know that you could shave like three or four seconds off, just knowing that is kind of fun, I'm like, oh, there must be like another pathway that I'm not seeing. And it kind of indicates what you might be. Yeah, like, it is fun. If you finish it and you're like, oh, that's 35 seconds. I think I went as fast as I could. And you're like, wait, what? everyone's at 18, 17, 16 seconds. I must have missed like a huge shortcut.

And then you have to play it again through different eyes and be like, what was I missing here? There must be another way to get around. And then you discover it. And it's amazing. It's the best. Best feeling ever. So yeah, that's me.

Kirk finishes off. My one more thing is a TV show I've been watching that I alluded to earlier. Another Paramount Plus show, which I know is enough for a lot of people to not watch it. we've been still loving Star Trek Strange New Worlds, which is on Paramount TV Plus. And it's the kind of thing where now that we have, at least for the next month or two, this subscription, sort of looking around at what else might be there, and had seen ads for this show, Players, which is my one more thing, a show from Tony Asenda, who is the director of American Vandal, which I know Jason, you and I really liked.

Mandy, did you watch American Vandal? I can't remember. It was good. Fantastic seasons. And Players is also really, really. good, and I want to recommend it to people, especially because this show is about gamers. It's about pro gamers. It's about the LCS League of Legends, a team, fictional team of League of Legends players. And it is a really true to life, very accurate to gaming portrayal that is also very funny and very dramatic and very satisfying. And I'm really wrapped up in the story. And I think it's great. It's much better than I expected. So,

The premise is essentially this team called Fugitive, who are made up Fugitive Gaming. Their star player is this guy, Cream Cheese, who is 27 and kind of aging out of pro gaming. And he founded the team. So he is kind of the star player, and he plays support. And they do a good job of making it clear how this team works and like how league works without getting bogged down and explaining everything. Because it's really in the end, just a sports story. It could be about a basketball team.

And you'd get it. If you watch it, you'd be like, oh, okay, so this guy's the new power forward, and this guy's the guard, and, like, they need to play together, and this player, and this guy had this relationship. And you figure out how it works. It's just, instead, it's, you know, whatever, these different teams. Oh, this guy's switching from top to mid, you know, this guy's playing League of Legends. And you kind of, you get it.

And there are also plenty of characters in the show who don't know about League of Legends, so people will, like, really briefly explain things and usually in funny ways. So shot like a documentary. though it's not real, just like American Vandal. So they're interviewing people. This is the story of Cream Cheese trying to get his team a championship, which they've never won. I guess a national championship, I think it is.

And in the process, a new player called Organism, who's this, I think, like, 19-year-old kid, who's like this super hot shot from Twitch, who's, like, amazing, but doesn't really ever talk to anyone and is kind of this enigmatic, you know, superstar. It's brought onto the team, and they replace Cream Cheese's longtime teammate with this kid, organism. Cream cheese, so there's this like battle of egos and cream cheese is very threatened. The actor

who plays cream cheese is absolutely incredible. It's a great performance. He's this horrible, sort of self-obsessed moron who's also then like at times really winning and likable. And it's just, it's so good. It's very much like American Vandal. How do they find these actors? They always find these no-name actors. And they're always, right, because they have to be no names because, you know, it has to be believable. Because there are a lot of real people from the League of Legends scene, you know, castors and hosts and all kinds of people are on this show as well. It really looks authentic. And it's, you know, I presume made with Riots imprimatur, so it's like all Real League of Legends stuff and, you know, characters. And man, it's just so much fun.

I really, Emily and I have both been watching it and really both enjoying it. And I am just only surface level aware of league and she doesn't know anything about it. But it's a fun show. And it's just watching these guys sort of figure out how to play together. And it's a good sports story. It's sort of halfway through, but it seems like they're going to stick the landing. The most recent episode was just really great. And if you're into video games, like, it's just so about the world that the three of us are all in all the time. And it's so authentic and loving and also very funny with a lot of really good characters. So honestly, I'm enjoying it even more than I thought I would. Incredible. And it's really, really good. So that's players. It's on

Paramount TV Plus. I mean, American Vandal is so good that I can't wait to watch this. So, yeah, especially Jason, I think you will love. But this show is just very under. I feel like I would too. I just, do I have to get another subscription service, Kirk? Is this really a free trial? That's the thing. And this show is, I mean, it's really great.

I want to watch the Star Trek show too, so I guess I'm so. I think the Star Trek show has been so good and continues to be so good that that I think would convince me at least to subscribe just until that season's over and then I'd cancel. And then this is like a fun bonus. It's like, oh, there's also this other good show. So yeah. Between the two, it's not a bad sales pitch for them. and I am not in any way sponsored by Paramount Plus, and I will be canceling our subscription to suit as there aren't any shows on it to watch.

Anyway, though, good show. The Halo Show is also on Paramountless. That I could not care less about it. No, I'm just looking at it because I... They have stuff. They have stuff. Paramount Plus. They have a Sal Park, a new South Park movie.

Okay. They have a new Beavis and Butthead movie, I think. They've got stuff. It's like there's stuff there. It's not a barren wasteland. All right. Well, that is it for this week's episode. Thank you.

As always for listening, thank you, too, for talking. And I will see you both next week. You're welcome. We'll see you next week. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ.

Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network. And if you like our show, we hope you'll consider. supporting us by becoming a member at maximum fun.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple clickpod.

Send email the triple click at maximum fun.org and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience, audience supported.