Triple Click - What Makes a Good Superhero Game?

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

This week, the Triple Click gang dives into the world of superhero video games. What makes for a good (and bad) superhero game? Why are Batman and Spider-Man such good protagonists for games? And hey, come to think of it, aren't all video games pretty much about superheroes? Plus: a special surprise!One More Thing: Kirk: AloneMaddy: MultiVersusJason: Better Call SaulLinks:Tom Bissell on Batman: Arkham City: https://grantland.com/features/batman-arkham-city/Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy a Triple Click t-shirt: https://topatoco.com/collections/maximum-fun/products/maxf-tc-tclogo-shJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

There's an old saying in superhero video games with great power comes greater need for heat sinks and fans to offset the heat generated by that power. Welcome to Triple Click where we bring the games to you. This week we're talking about superhero video games, how they work, what makes for a good one, and what are some of the challenges inherent in adapting that sort of story into the medium of games? Our spider senses tingling, so let's get into it. I'm Kirk Hamilton. I'm Maddie Myers. And I'm Jason Schreier.

Hello. Hi. Hello. It's us again. Wow. Yet again. All three of us made it. We have so much to talk about today.

We did. We showed up. We made the commute. Oh, guys, I almost forgot. I have something cool to show you both. Oh, okay. Something cool. Hold on.

Stay. Wow, finally something cool. This is exciting. Okay, I'm going to turn off my mic for a second, but keep recording. Okay, great. I'm going to describe, oh, I was going to describe what Jason is doing, but he's turned off his screen. So now I can only see Maddie.

her key tar with a Wolverine mask on it behind her. I can only see Kirk and some cool blue lighting next to his various instruments. A little bit of atmospheric lighting in here. What if Jason never came back? He was like, let me show you something cool. I quit. It's just like a middle finger emoji on his screen. It's just like a custom gif of like Jason flipping us off and being like, I'm never coming back.

He's been gone for a surprisingly long. long time. Is Jason okay? Should we send him a deal? I think he probably is. I'm pretty excited, but I'm wondering what it's going to be. Is this going to be? I think it'll be a physical object that he'll hold up to the camera. He's got something that he wants us to see. Yeah. I was thinking maybe it was an elderly Japanese man. And I was like a little word. I was like, did Jason take that bit too far? Like, did he befriend somebody? And he's like, it'll be really funny if you come and say hi to my friends on this show we do. Let me tell you about the rule of threes and comedy.

You've got to have a real punchline at the end. You've got to take it somewhere unexpected. I think it's going to be an object. I think it's going to be, I suppose it'll be a video game related. Maybe it won't be, but that seems like it probably won't be. I hope it's a sweet code into cosplay. Oh, man, that would be good. He's dressed up as anatomy.

He has the hair. Yeah, you know, I'm still. I'm still like wishing there was a huge cosplay group of every single star in that game. Like no one would ever do that. But what if somebody did do that? That would just be so cool. I don't know how popular cosplay of Sweet Coden is or how popular it was even when those games were more recent. When I looked it up, there were definitely like Jawi and Ryu and non-amy cosplayers.

And I feel like that was- But not people cosplay as like the private detective. Guys, guys, guys, guys. Oh, wait, Jason's back. Do you remember how Kirk secretly watched billions for like a month without telling us? Oh, my God. Yes. I do. I do remember that. Well, I did something secret, too, without telling you guys.

It is a baby who's holding up to the camera. In fact, it is a human being. What? Yeah, I secretly had a baby. What? What? Oh, my goodness. Wow.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Gotcha. Congratulations. Congratulations. That's so exciting. What a weird... How am I going to top this? I feel like the pressure is really on me now.

He's six days old. I hope that his name is Bobby Axelrod. Fingers crossed. Bobby Williams himself. But I think he's on me, so he has to go now. Okay, yeah. Well, he's a tiny baby. Oh, that is so exciting.

Oh, and there's Amanda. Hi, Amanda. Congratulations. Jason didn't tell us this. So we had no idea. She can't hear us. She's causing life and she's walking away. Mazel Tov, what a cool surprise.

That wasn't what we were expecting. What were you expecting? Something Sweetodin, like you were going to be in Sweetodon cosplay. We had a few guesses. Or an elderly Japanese man was my main guess. Also, right. You had decided to complete that joke. I mean, babies kind of look elderly.

Newborns do look like old men. Yeah, they do. That is true. They do have kind of old man energy. So this is a much better surprise. It worked out nicely because we actually went to the hospital last Wednesday, the day after we recorded. And I was like, oh, man, I hope we don't have to, like, go into labor, like, during the recording

session. You guys have no idea, right? It's the most bizarre thing to keep a secret. How on earth would we have guessed this? Like, Jason, you kind of have expected father energy, right? Jason has that glow. He's just glowing, but it must be because he made his place we code in two. That must be why.

Just so you understand the extent of how secret I had to keep this, I went to a barbecue at Submit Sarkar's house a few weeks ago. I almost went to that part with you. With my wife, who was eight months pregnant at the time. And so I had to go around, because half of your coworkers are there, I had to go around to all of them and tell them to keep it secret from you. What? It's so bizarre.

Wow. All right. That's pretty devious. I appreciate that. I had to find a way to one-up curve. Well, you did. I would say that a human life is one-upping the knowledge of several seasons of a TV show. It's a little bit better secret to keep it.

I'm a competitive person. What can I say? Anyway, I'm going to show. Am I supposed to secretly play Xeno Gears? I'm so overwhelmed right now. I don't even know what to say. Yeah, Maddie. You really have to be this.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm blown away. That's so exciting. Jason, you have two children. I have two children. Now you can do A-B testing. My one more thing was another fake out because I want to talk about having two children a little bit later.

Oh, nice. All right. I was wondering if the thing you were. had seemed like the best one more thing but I was gonna I was gonna take you at your out it was a fake out take you at your word nice nicely done nicely done on all counts congratulations Jason Schreier thank you thank you wild wild stuff well on that on that note triple click triple click is a it's a listener supported show and we've got yet another set of mouths to feed between the three of us so hey true if you want to

help Jason pay for diapers and a lot of diapers toys and clothes for his new offspring. Well, you can go to maximum fun.org slash join. You can become a member of Maximum Fun, which is our podcast network. And if you do that, you support our show. You help us keep doing this where we surprise one another with delightful things every so often.

I like this better than the thing where we force each other to do things we don't want to do. This is a way better running bit. This is lovely. It is. love it as well. Anyway, you all pretty much know the drill if you listen to this show. You get monthly bonus episodes. The bonus episode this month is going to be

about the TV show Better Call Saw, which just concluded last night. I stayed up late to watch the finale. What a finale. Holy crap. What a good show. I'm going to watch it after this. I was literally, you know, oh, I can tell this story now. I was crying like in front of the TV. I got upstairs. I went up

to Amanda. She was like, how was it? Because she doesn't watch it. I was like, I was crying. She was like, well, you didn't cry last week when your son was born. You're like, look, okay? Jimmy and I go pretty far back at this point. Kim Wexler, really. She and I. Yeah, it's really all about Kim and not Jimmy.

It's true. It's true. Just kidding. I love them both, despite their many faults. Today I was driving and I saw Florida license plate and I choked up. I was like Kim. I can't believe. You like the sprinkler company.

Yeah, that hellish life you live. I know. Yeah, her new hairdo though, you know. Well, anyways. No, we'll have to save the talk, for. Spoilers. Spoilers. We'll get into it on the beans cast, which you can listen to if you become a member

Maximumfund.org slash join. Of course, a lot of other bonus episodes that you will also get to listen to. And one other bit of housekeeping is just a reminder that we are all reading the book Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zeven. We've taken to calling it TomorrowX3, at least when I write it out,

because that's easier. Nice. It is a wonderful book that I am near the end of about game developers and just life and being creative and creative partnerships. It's really a really, really readable, really fun book. We're going to be talking about that on September 8th on our episode on September 8th. We're going to be spoiling the book, too. So, of course, you can listen to it later if you read the book a little late. I saw some people were getting it from the library and may not be with us in time.

But hopefully you have it and you're reading it. And that's going to be really fun. So September 8th for that. All right. So on with the show. Wow, that's a lot of really exciting. Yeah, I feel like we've had a whole podcast worth of drama already. Wow.

But we have got a hot topic for you for this episode. This is something we've all been chewing on over the past few weeks, in part because Marvel's Spider-Man, originally on PlayStation, is now out for PC. We've been kind of replaying that game and thinking about it, and just thinking about games in general. So we wanted to talk about this topic, and that topic is superhero games.

What makes a good superhero game? what is it about superheroes that can translate well or poorly to the video game, to the medium of video games? There's kind of a lot to talk about. There's a lot of different kinds of superhero games. And it's a pretty open topic. I wrote some prompts, some questions. I listed some games, but I don't have a super strong agenda here. So I'm going to kick us off with a quote from our friend Tom Bissell that he wrote way back in the day in the early 2010s in his review of Batman Arkham City.

He wrote, what if, of all the experiences video games make. theoretically available to us, a simulated superhero experience turns out to be what, at the end of the day, video games do best. That is the opening line from his review. And I think, you know, I think that's a fun opening line and probably a good prompt to kick us off. So let's just start by looking at that question. Are video games uniquely suited to superhero stories? And if so, or if not, what makes a good superhero game?

Oh, man. It's a good question. I actually, well, so I think that I can't really answer this without also tackling another question you wrote here, which is, are all video games kind of superhero games? It's got a war of superhero game, is control the superhero. And I think the answer is absolutely, like, well, not to all, but certainly every, all the power fantasy games are. Yeah, every power fantasy game, every action adventure game where you're like building up a skill tree and collecting powers and gear for your decked out superhero protagonist. is a superhero game. So like, Credos, I mean, the only difference between Cretus

and Batman is that Cretus didn't originate in comics. And I was going to say, doesn't have comics, but I'm sure there are comics about Cratos these days because everything is transmedia. And so it doesn't, there really is no difference. It's just like where your origin is determines whether you're a superhero or not. So in that

sense, maybe Tom is getting at a point here in that like the video game form is best at delivering a power fantasy, which is probably stronger argument than like the superhero or maybe it means the same thing i don't know yeah especially since a lot of early superhero games weren't very good which is something that tom also gets into in the article and the batman arkham games were some of the first really refreshing superhero games and of course

we live in a post-archum world now we're all coasting on that and we all kind of have that as the barometer by which we can measure other superhero games but before that mostly superhero games were based on movies and video games that are based on movies are notoriously stinkers, with the exception of E.T., greatest game ever made, obviously. Yes, 1984 classic. At this point, like, if we're looking at something like Spider-Man, which it feels so good to be Spider-Man in Spider-Man that it's just like, oh, of course, this is a perfect video game concept. You're a superpowered being and you're swinging around the city, but I don't know if that

was necessarily a given when Tom wrote this line. I think for him it was more of like a revelatory moment of this type of game that takes Batman and makes him feel like a video game hero is the final realization of what video games should have always been. It's just that you were Mario and Kirby before. And those characters may as well have been Batman, if that makes sense. Yeah, there's something also to the specificity of Batman. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the first, and I don't think this is necessarily true since there was like the Trey Arc-Arc Spider-Man game, there have been good superhero games before Batman Arkham Asylum, which I believe was in 2009, that were good or seen as good.

Yeah, X-Men Children of the Adam. How could I not mention the X-Men arcade game? Another great. It actually is really fun. Yeah, it is really good. I think that Arkham Asylum got at something that, you know, Spider-Man kind of had, but it felt pretty fresh when that game came out, which was it really, felt like a Batman simulator.

Yeah. And in a way that worked and was fun as a video game. And I think that's specific to Batman because Batman's whole deal is basically he is a normal guy. He just has a lot of cool shit. He's a gamer. He's kind of like Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell or whatever. Like he's kind of a stealth game protagonist in a lot of ways who then he also is able to fight. And, you know, he's got a lot of martial arts skills.

So there's like a fighting game and there's a stealth game. And they don't really have to deal with. actual superpowers, which is always the interesting question about Batman, is that is Batman actually a superhero? Because what's the joke in Justice League? It's like the groaner in that extremely messy movie where he's like, what are your powers again? He's like, I'm super rich. And those are his powers, but it's kind of true. So actually the first or widely seen as one of the most successful superhero franchises of video games is about a guy who is not technically super in the way that we're thinking about, which I think kind of means something that that feels important to this conversation. I agree. I think it's also why I remember

liking Lego Batman a ton. I didn't play Lego Avengers, but I remember Lego Batman being something that translated really well, like the colorful villains and everything were fun, but also just the fact that you step in as Batman first. It's just a really easy entry point. And Tom Bissell makes the same point about Spider-Man, although he's not talking about the Insomniac game. He's talking about the previous one, you mentioned the Traerick one. Spider-Man, too. Yeah, and how the reason why it works as a way in is because Peter Parker is also an everyman character.

He does have superpowers, but he's pretty squishy. He's not as strong as Superman or Wonder Woman or I got to think of an X-Men character, The Hulk, Wolverine. But he's still pretty strong. He's just that he's a friendly neighborhood guy. So he's much more grounded in reality in a similar way to back. Batman, and that is Tom's theory as to why he's just relatable enough. It's like you can get into the power fantasy because you see this character as a regular

person on some level that just got a little extra, and that helps. You know, it's interesting because the ways that those two characters are grounded are actually opposites, right? Batman is in most ways a completely unrelatedable person. He's this billionaire. He's kind of a real weirdo, like especially various versions of Bruce Wayne. He's this kind of obsessive freak, like he lives this pretty freaky life. But he doesn't have super strength or super speed like some of the people that he fights,

where Spider-Man does have super strength and has really amazing powers. He's the amazing Spider-Man. But in his regular everyday life, he's this kind of down-and-out young person struggling with a job in every version of Peter Parker. He's always kind of failing. I just listened to the series that the blank check, the podcast, the movie podcast, did on San Ramey and they watched all of the Spider-Man movies. And a really interesting thesis they kept coming back to with that take on Spider-Man

and then Spider-Man in general because they're very knowledgeable about the comics, is that a big thing with Spider-Man is that being Spider-Man ruins Peter Parker's life and that those two things are always in tension. Like the better he's doing at being Spider-Man, usually the worse he is at being Peter Parker. And that's the core tension at the heart of those Ramey movies, especially Spider-Man 2. Well, really, Spider-Man 3-2. And that's something that I actually think the Spider-Man game replaying it doesn't get at as much. Like it's kind of there.

There are times, like, his relationship with MJ is like in a kind of a weird place, but they're basically just friendly the whole time because she's just another friendly quest giver. And there isn't that feeling of like, God, my life is falling apart. And I have to save the world, which is so, such a hallmark of Spider-Man for me anyway. Those moments that it happens, though, works so much better for me. Like when the conflicts aren't about just the supervillain. but also Peter losing his apartment and getting evicted and he has to like go to all the trash cans to try to find his little USB drive. Like those moments are great because it's so mundane.

I mean, that quest is also hilarious because the guy, the garbage, the sanitation worker who's helping him find it, like, is just not questioning anything, which is like also very New York to me in a certain way where like Spider-Man's just like, I need to find this USB drive. And the guy's just like, yeah, whatever, kid. I just played that quest. And it's like, why is this happening? Like those moments are so much funnier to me than, well, I mean, we can get into it. But there are some parts of the Spider-Man game that really break my immersion. That moment especially, it's another Spider-Man thing that Spider-Man is very New York. And there's a lot of sort of like every man working New York character who turns up in Spider-Man.

And having the guy just be this sort of operator for garbage trucks who's just helping Spider-Man out is a very Spider-Man moment. And I agree. I think the game's at its best when it's capturing those moments. I guarantee you if you went up to any garbage worker, sanitation worker in New York and we're like, hey, I need to find USBs drive. They would just be like, oh, okay, like dig around here without no questions. They wouldn't be like, who are you? Or why are you asking this? They do not care.

Yeah, they don't care. To a point you made earlier, Kirk, I actually, I think that like it's not, it's certainly not a coincidence that the first superhero game to really strike you big, so to speak, was a Batman game and that Batman doesn't have superpowers because I think superpowers makes. it harder to deliver a power fantasy because one of the core tenets of delivering a video game power fantasy is you start a level zero and work your way up whether it's a skill tree or in batman's case collecting gadgets which in like a more realistic game i don't remember arkham asylum too well i remember arkham night pretty well but in a more realistic version of batman you would start with everything but because these are video games you have to gather stuff over time throughout the asylum it is it's a similar rhythm to the films also where he kind of deploys cooler shit

over the course of the movie. It has to be in any sort of story. It has to be like you're building, you're starting one place and you have your arc and you make your progress. He doesn't just fly in in the Batwing, except I guess in the Lego Batman movie, but that's the point of that movie is that it kind of starts at the top and then goes down. Yeah. Point being that like you can kind of the reason, one of the reasons that Arkham Asylum took off and set this kind of standard for superhero games is that it took all of these principles that work in game design, such as the. Metroidvania style like finding things and using them all over the place and seeing things that come back later and apply them to a superhero game as opposed to taking a superhero

and just like like finding a new formula for video games. So really you could say that Samus Aran is the original superhero game. Yeah, absolutely. But it's also why she stupidly has to lose all of her abilities at the beginning of every game. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you got to start understandably mocked. An ongoing challenge. And Kratos has the same issue in a lot of although it'd be fun and I've heard it talked about before the idea of like a Benjamin Button style game where you're just losing all your powers over time I think that'd be an interesting interesting subversion it would certainly get harder yeah it also gets at the heart of why we've never seen a good Superman game because Superman is invincible

to everything and so it's not very fun although I think I don't remember if we've talked about this before on this show or if I've talked I've definitely talked about this before but I would love to see a Superman game in the kind of telltale choose your own adventure style where you have to make difficult decisions. Absolutely. That's the way something like that kid worked. Where is the Clark Kent journalism game? We need this.

We need Clark to be making some really tough decisions. His newspaper just got bought by private equity. And also he's like trying to report on stuff in between like saving people, saving kitties from trees. His kryptonite is actually private equity. Wow. That's how he gets. You can't save everyone, Clark.

You can't save everyone. Yeah. The Batman told him. game is an interesting example of us. When you were saying that, Jason, I was having the same thought. For Superman, the only way I've ever seen Superman, I mean, there are some very fun classic Superman films, but it's hard to make the character interesting unless you've got Lex Luthor being like, two things, you know, you can either do this or do that, but you can't

do both. Like, are you a human or aren't you a human? Do you care about these people? Because they might fear you. And, you know, even the stuff that Zach Snyder got into, as messy as those films were, was sometimes really interesting. and that's best explored by that kind of format, which is a game that's just about conversations and that kind of role playing.

That's what was cool about the Batman Telltale game. I didn't finish that game, but I played a couple chapters of it. And it's cool because it does have a lot of Batman stuff, but it focuses on Batman, you know, mystery solving and puzzle solving and dealing with complicated tough snap decisions in the field. And then also you get to play Bruce Wayne a lot, which is just cool because Bruce Wayne is a fascinating character. Like, that is a cool character to let people play

and to embody the non-superhero part of a character, which you just really don't get to do in a game like Marvel Spider-Man where there are fantastic cutscenes in that game. There's a really, you know, Peter and Mary Jane and all those characters are really well-drawn and animated and written, but you're not doing a lot of playing. And, like, they could add a sort of witchery thing, you know, the way Horizon does we're having some conversations

and there's some branches, but it just seems like the game's main, Rust is always going to be swinging around the city punching bad guys. Playing Spider-Man again has also made me realize how much Miles Morales changed and fixed a lot of aspects of Spider-Man. Like, just from the jump, it's fixing one of the central problems we're describing here, which is it's giving Miles an origin story. He doesn't really know how to be Spider-Man yet at the beginning of the game, and neither do you. You're learning how to play the game.

And he has different powers than Peter. He has, like, his electricity shock powers. And so you're learning this new form of combat, which just preference-wise, I thought that was more fun. But I know not everybody agrees with that. I just happen to really dig it. So you're learning these new skills at the same time as Miles. You're exploring the city along with him. That just works a lot better.

It's ironic because I feel like I'm so tired of Superman origin stories in basically every other media format. But in a video game, I'm like, it's fine. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't want to be Superman and like already have laser eyes. all the other shit, that sounds incredibly boring to me. But going along with Miles on his journey of, oh, shit, I'm Spider-Man now and Peter's on vacation and I need to, like, fight the Rye now and, like, figure out how to navigate all this shit along with my regular life.

Like, that was why that game worked a lot better for me emotionally. Yeah, it also narratively, I think, did more of the classic Peter Parker narrative structure because of the fact that the villain in that game is also your friend. and there's like a conflict built into like the central friendship relationship that's playing out in the cutscenes. Like that then, that's just like a classic Spider-Man dynamic where Miles Morales in this case is learning to be Spider-Man. And as he gets better at being Spider-Man, he's working at odds with one of his oldest friends. And it's like all of that stuff is kind of interacting. And then of course there's the other stuff with like the secret identities of his other family members and whatever.

That stuff is all just interacting in a way that feels better than it did in the original game where they've got. you're working for Doc Ock and then eventually he becomes Doc Ock. So there's like there's some of it, but it's not quite. Yeah, he is your friend, but it is kind of a missed opportunity that they don't have like the Osborne family as part of it where like there's a younger character who Peter's a friend with. And like instead they have that he's like off in Europe somewhere and you're like cleaning up his research laboratories, which okay, that's fine. But then it means that Peter's two.

Presumably he's coming back. Right. But then it means that Peter's two friends are MJ and Miles. who are then both on his side and you just also play as them so you don't get the tension of somebody more relatable to Peter that he's fighting against. Like Dococ, you know he's going to be Dococ from Momu, one. Yeah, it's a sinister six. It literally is seven villains.

They really, they were like, listen, the films couldn't do Sinister Six because it was too many villains. So we've decided we will. And, you know, props to them for time. Although the most recent Sider Man did like a sinister four or five thing, right? like the most recent one. I guess there were kind of a lot of them in there. That's true. That's true.

That's true. But they weren't like explicitly trying to do Sinister Six. I can imagine them not wanting to have Harry be a character in the new Spider-Man just because he was such a major character in the Ramey trilogy. And people are so familiar with that story that they wanted to do something new. But like so is Peter Parker. So's Mary Jane. Right. I know what you're saying now.

They didn't really replace him with anything else. And I do think this is something we talked about a little bit at the end of last week's episode. that they ran into trouble when Spider-Man as Peter Parker in the main game is like an established hero. Yeah. And as a result, he's kind of in enforcement mode. And so he's like working with the police and he's kind of cleaning up the streets and being more of an enforcer than we think of Spider-Man being. Where when you play as Miles Morales, it's like, this guy. Like, he's with this kid.

Like, no one really takes him seriously. He's using an app. Always trying to prove himself. It has its own problems. Right. Yeah. He feels so much scrappier by design. Although I think the reason they gave Miles that app is also because of some of the criticism that the team received in response to Spider-Man where people were like, hold on.

Peter Parker doesn't work with the cops and the comics. What's going on here? Can you explain the app to people like me who are just now remembering what it is because I played the game a couple years ago? So I'll describe Spider-Man first. So in Spider-Man, you're not only working with the cops. You're actually pals as Spider-Man with the police chief. She doesn't know your identity, but she knows you as Spider-Man. and she calls you a lot on the phone and asks you to help the cops out with various...

Is she the chief or is she just the police officer? I'm not sure. I think she's the chief. She's pretty high up. And then in Miles Morales, Miles actually has some stealth missions where he has to avoid the police, which I liked, because he doesn't work with them directly. And he instead, his best friend, whose name I'm forgetting, Ganky, I think, makes him an app that anyone, any regular schmo can write in saying they need Spider-Man's help. So you end up with this really disparate set of tasks where people are like,

oh, I run a bodega and my cat is missing. I'm just trying to find my cat. And then also like actual real crimes that he has to like track down, you know, people who stole something or what have you. But I really like it. And I mean, there are still things in the original Spider-Man. Like there's this part where you help this homeless guy find his pet pigeons, which is kind of similar to the bodega cat thing.

Like there are some friendly neighborhood Spider-Man parts in that game. The side quests mostly, yeah. Yeah, but like the main story is not about that and is mostly about Spider-Man working with the cops who are depicted as infallible in the game, largely. And then like working against the sort of PMC that's brought into the city, the worst cops. Yeah, that are demarcated as evil because they're private security.

But the good old NYPD never makes a mistake. Maddie, you're not a New Yorker, so I won't hold it against you, but bodega cats are the most important thing in New York City. You're right. What am I saying? That was actually like a really high stakes issue. And Miles was there. I feel like that's one of the most famous images from Miles Marales is that suit you can wear where he has the backpack with the cat in it. With the cat. I mean, it works for a reason. So another thought I had, I was going to make this up earlier, is that I think that one of the of the solutions to the superhero problem, which is like, what do you do with this archetype,

this super-powered creature? How do you make a game about it? I think one of the good solutions is ensemble stories, and that's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to Marvel's Midnight Suns, which is the Fraxis X-Gom style Marvel game that keeps getting delayed. I'm sure that game is going through some troubles. But regardless, I'm looking forward to that. It's why I was looking forward to Avengers. Marvel's Avengers, yeah. That turned out to be a little hollow, a little shallow. could have been great. But regardless, the point is that like when you have an ensemble cast, you don't have to worry as much about each one of them having their own arcs, their own progression, and you can kind of, you can divvy the load, so to speak, which I think is a more elegant way of

approaching the solution. And it's why I'm surprised that we haven't really seen a really good, like, Fantastic Four X-Men game. And I'm hoping that that arrives at some point. Yeah, I mean, Gotham Knights, right? That's one of the most, of coming ones. And it's funny, I feel like we all aren't even really thinking about it. And Suicide Squad. Oh, yeah, it's all ensembles. Right. They're all kind of working on ensembles. And I've, you know, I think I don't, I didn't play enough of Marvel's Avengers, but found that game generally a little disappointing, even though the premise is good because an MMO style, like Destiny style team really lends itself. Like, that's kind of what the Avengers are. They've got the tank. They've got support. They've got the sniper, the DPS. Yeah. And it's like, it kind of, it lends itself to that. kind of a game. It just did not work for a lot of reasons.

It was so repetitive. Well, right. I mean, sure, specific complaints about that game. But, like, you know, there are, there's DCU online, which I don't, I've never really played. But there are these online superhero games with the same kind of idea. The idea of heroes. Because really, like, in FF14 or wow or whatever, I mean, you're kind of playing a superhero

team, right? It's just. This was the whole idea of Titan before it became overwatch. The Blizzard MMO is going to be like you are, uh, uh, uh, uh, like a mild-mannered shop owner by day and a superhero you turn into to Reinhard or Mercy by night. I mean, Overwatch is almost a team-based superhero game. It is another example of something that kind of is that.

Yeah. It's only, yeah, the only reason we don't call it that is because, again, it's not marketed that way. Yeah. Well, no, it's because superheroes for some reason are only comics. Like, you only call something a superhero if it originated in a comic. But why isn't Reinhard and Mercy and. and Tracer, they're just as much superheroes.

The only difference is that they originated in a video game. Really, that's the only difference, right? Yeah, I mean, it's a fine distinction, but I think there's also just the fact that Overwatch is a PVP game, and that just like, when we're talking about superhero games, like, it's one thing to say, what is a superhero, you know,

is it just your powers? But like when talking about a superhero game, it's sort of the, what we're at least talking about is the feeling of being, you know, a superhero fighting against super villains, not like being a superhero fighting against a clone of yourself on another team of six in like an arena. That's just, that's not really

a superhero experience, generally speaking. That's why Overwatch too is supposed to have PVE, although they're watching it early without TV. I mean, I feel like if they ever did do a story for Overwatch it would be more superhero like, because you're supposed to be fighting the omics or whatever the heck the story is.

Well, I'm like watching those animated shorts for Overwatch. Always felt kind of like watching a Marvel movie. Like it had that same draw. You know, I've never really seen superhero team dynamics done as well as they're done in probably my favorite superhero team game, which is a tabletop game

called Sentinels of the Multiverse. I can't remember if I've ever talked about this game on this show. Have I? I think you did. Is this a Marvel thing? It's not, but it's sort of like each character is a kind of a knockoff. It's a card-based game. It's a cooperative deck game where you get a deck for your hero.

It feels like a Marvel lawsuit waiting to happen. No, it's fine. I mean, it's like the characters are different enough. You know, there's like There's a kind of gadget-based Batman-like character. Well, even Sentinels of the Multiverse, I just think of Marvel. Well, you're not playing as a Sentinel hunting down the X-Men. That would be a terrible game. It's their own thing.

So, you know, it's like there's a Batman-like character. There's a kind of Superman-slash-Captan-American-type character. And then the cards in your deck are all your different abilities. You can play, like, active cards, pass-crapers. It's a card game. And then there's a deck that's, like, an environment deck. So you can be fighting a villain in any of a number of environments, you know. City that's exploding or, like,

base on the moon or whatever, under sea layer. And so that environment deck like complicates what's happening. And then there's a villain deck and you're always fighting some supervillain. And they're increasing levels of complication and difficulty. So you have to synergize your team. And you can play with it. There's a ton of heroes. Like there's all these expansions.

I just have the base game. But it's cool because you have to take the time to really think through your different abilities. And each character really plays differently. You know, there's like the character who has lots of guns and can like blow stuff up has all these rocket launchers and stuff. There's a character who can really debuff enemies. There's a character who can buff everyone and heal them.

And so it winds up really feeling like you're a super team at the best, which is a feeling that I think video games at some point will really nail. And maybe some have just that I haven't played, because that's really cool. The team up thing is what, you know, it's like the lifeblood of so many superhero comics, but it's not that common in games, you know, except in like single player games. I guess Arkham Knight, you're doing some team ups, but you're the only one playing. or just teaming up with Nightwing or whatever. Not really the same.

Yeah. I mean, it's a smaller scale example, but I feel like that's part of why Lego Batman and also the X-Men arcade game were so cool to me, because Lego Batman, you can play cooperatively, and there's, like, some choice as to which character you can be. And, I mean, the team-ups don't necessarily make total sense.

But the X-Men arcade game is, like, the original version of this where everybody has very slightly different powers. They're not that impressive, but, hey, they all have different powers. hours and that was like enough at the time. And just the fact that, you know, you could have multiple people at the arcade cabinet all working together and being like, okay, I'm going to pick so-and-so, I'll pick Storm, whomever you're into, and then you all have to work together. Like that in and of itself is the itch that Marvel's Avengers is trying to scratch, but it's

too complicated by a thousand points. When the three of us played, we all became hope for some reason. I know, it didn't work. Oh man, that's right. What a mess. I just, I don't know. Like, is that... Are we going to live in a world where they make like four different superhero single player games? And then the fifth game is one where all four of those heroes team up together. And it's like all in the same engine and they just are practicing with the previous four. That's never going to happen.

Because Marvel is like smartly licensing out their stuff to like a billion different game developers and publishers. So none of them are going to work together. It's not like EA is calling up Ubisoft and being like, hey, what are you guys doing? or for Axis or whatever. You'd say that, but Insomniac has collected at least a couple characters so far that have been Avengers. The Wolverine game isn't out yet, but it would be kind of weird if they didn't have a Spider-Man Wolverine team up. Actually, well, since those are both insomniac, I wouldn't be too shocked if Spider-Man 2 ended with like a post-credit like Wolverine teaser. Very MCU of them if they were to do that.

I remember having coffee with someone from Insomnia like years and years ago when they just announced Spider-Man, their first Spider-Man. I was like, you guys need to end it with a teaser for the Avengers from Scoriness. But it did not come to fruition. Yeah, why didn't they do that? But if it's internal, why wouldn't they do it? Why not? Yeah, I can see that. The Avengers game almost could have been what you were describing, Maddie.

I know. You play through a mini campaign as each character and then you get to play them together. I think that for me, where that game lost me was the fact that they didn't do that with Kamala Khan at first, that you didn't play just through a whole adventure as her and then play through another adventure. You know, like they slowly release like a kind of modular thing over the course of two years. You get new adventures, which they did start kind of doing later on.

But it was so quickly, it was an Avengers game. It wasn't just you're going to get Kamala Khan because they needed it to be, you know, a multiplayer game that everyone can play as their favorite Avenger. I guess it would be really hard to launch that as a kind of like the way you described Assassin's Creed Infinity, Jason, where it's like kind of a framework. And you get one hero and then another and then another.

And then it kind of becomes like a video game version of the MCU. That could work. It's just so ambitious and it would require so much patience from people, you know, for the multiplayer stuff to even come online. Because if it starts with just one or two heroes, like, you know, it would have to start with a lot of stuff. And then you've basically got what Avengers was, which didn't quite work. Well, also, each campaign would take like three years to make.

Right. No, it is a crazy amount of work. But, I mean, I don't know, if Disney's throwing money behind it. and really making it into a thing, I could kind of see it. Yeah, but throwing money at, it doesn't always work. I mean,

even companies that are throwing... Yeah, I mean, I guess that is evident, yes. It's a lot of companies are throwing money at things and that doesn't actually mean they can be made, unfortunately. What's the expression?

It's like, in programming, they always talk about how, you know, that nine women in one month can't make a baby. That's like the throwing more people at a, That really does sound like one of those truisms. Yeah, true.

I don't know if I even agree that a superhero team up is the best way for us to be thinking about what makes a good superhero game because I feel like a really strong single player game about just one superhero can be great. Yeah, it just needs to be the right superhero. It needs to be a superhero that is grounded enough that you feel like you are not just like inhabiting this all-powerful being from the get-go because you need to. have progression of some sort of, and also a superhero that is like flawed enough that you can tell an interesting story about them. You know, I would also say that a superhero game should have normal people in it.

Like, I think that one thing that sets God of War apart, even though it's structured so similarly to a superhero game, is that you're in a world that's essentially populated by gods and monsters. And so it's just like, like, you're kind of, Kratos is kind of the baseline. There are times where he lifts a mountain up or whatever, and you're like, whoa, this guy is a god. That's right, I remember. And certainly in the earlier games, there are some times where there are mortals around. But they're always kind of just these little, like, you know, fleeing people who are being crushed underfoot by these gods. So it's not, it doesn't feel superheroy in that way that it, you know, most superhero, at least my favorite superhero stories tend to involve people realizing powers.

And that's kind of the fantasy is the dream is that you're special. You're the specialist person of all. You can fly or you can see through walls or whatever. And then you have to kind of navigate your life now with these ordinary people. people. I think I wrote Life is Strange here because I think that Life is Strange is actually a very interesting example of what I would call a superhero story where Max is that her name, the main character of Life is Strange? Yeah, Max Caulfield, just like Holden. Oh, Caulfield, God. The literary aspirations of that game can be a little silly. Yeah, that Max gets a superpower, the ability

to travel through time. And then that story, especially the first game, the first Life is Strange game. It's this really interesting version of like. It's a love story too. Yeah, it's a Max and Chloe. A human story and it's all about her relationships with other totally normal people. It just adds this superpower to the mix to change the way the story is told. And I mean, Life is Strange too, which I started and didn't finish. But definitely, I mean, it's almost like an X-Men story or something like it feels very similar. So that, again, I guess we come back to that format being good for certain types of stories.

What we really need is a new animorphs game. Sure. That's what I want. That is an IP that we are just waiting, waiting for somebody to snap it up. Honestly, if someone did and they did like a really good animals. That would be amazing. You go around, you touch animals. Yeah, you become.

Those books are dark too. Yeah, oh yeah. They like half of them die at the end because they're, because war is. Yeah, like a bunch of them die and one of them like becomes a bird like permanently because he's just like I'd rather be a bird or whatever. Yeah, that's at the very beginning. Wait, so these are, I've actually never, is this. read? These are books. I know of anamorphs, but I've never read them. Yeah, these are books. These are young adult books. These are young books. They came out around the time Maddie and I were going up. So you probably missed them by a couple of years. When you were young adults and I was just an adult. Yeah, you were way too cool by then. You were already a tween or whatever.

Drinking coffee and talking about politics. They're really, man, those books are really, really good. They kind of tapered off by the end because the author K. Applegate ghost writers at a certain point. And, A young adult series that kind of loses quality The End, I never heard of that movie. Yeah, it's hard to imagine. But they ended with a bang. The ending itself is really good. They came out like once a month, which in retrospect is crazy. It was like a new one.

So it's young people who can turn into animals? Oh, yeah. So the premise is, okay, so the premise is these five normal kids like wind up in a junkyard at night and like stumble upon this alien who dies. And before he dies, gives them all the power to transform into animals. So they go around. You have to touch and. animal to be able to transform into it. So like each book they like wind up getting some new morph

that they can play around with like at one point it's like oh we're all birds awesome let's explore that. One book is like we're all undersea now we're dolphins we're exploring the water and and so it explores like each of the different possibilities at one point they like wind up becoming like insects and like have to deal with like buzzing noises in their head. Anyway turns out that they have to fight this secret invasion on earth of these mind controlling worms called the yurks who can crawl into people's ears and take over their heads and you have no idea who's being controlled and not. Very peacemaker.

Yeah, peacemaker does this. Or like a lot of things, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really good. It's a really, really great series. That sounds pretty fun. That sounds like there's some sequences in the magicians where they turn into animals that are very enjoying.

Yeah. It would be very hard to do a game like that. It would be. Well, so actually, it turns out there was an old, there was an Animarves game. I think it was like a Super Nintendo game or a Game Boy game, and it was essentially Pokemon. It's just like a Pokemon clone with Animorphs.

Or you just walk around touching different animals and then you get the power of that animal and you can fight. Yeah, I guess it would become a collectathon as opposed to a deep story. But I think that a good developer could do some cool stuff with Animorphs. That's my both.

Yeah, there's definitely still a lot of room. And now that games have just technologically become so capable, like it did feel like Arkham Asylum came along at a time where there was just a level of fidelity, there was a level of performance fidelity. Like you could get Mark Hamill to play the Joker, and it really felt like, you know,

you were kind of watching 3D animated series, that now, you know, we've seen this in Spider-Man as well. It just feels like there's kind of more, it's more likely that you're going to get a superhero game that's like those, and not just some crappy tie-in Super Nintendo's Superman game or whatever that just sort of sucks. Yeah. It's funny you mention that

because Spider-Man is one of those games you play, and you're like, how can video games ever really look better than this? Like, I feel like you did. I've had that thought a lot. Yeah. Especially with the re-remen. Remaster. Those freaking reflections, man. I've been streaming it off of PC to Steam Deck.

And it's still, I mean, it's even on a smaller screen. So it's running like it runs on PC because on Steam Deck it doesn't run. It runs, but not as well. But just looking at it, there are times I have that thought. I'm like, I don't need video games to look better than this. Like, just when you're swinging around the city. Or the cutscenes. I'm like, it's fine.

Yeah. I find these characters believable and charming. And this looks incredible at times. It's just like, you don't have to spend any more money on this. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I just ended here. Let's just put an end to the Fidelity Wars.

Right. Let's just focus on story and making the games. Games more flesh. We're focused on making games more you mean to make. Right. And also having weekends. Yeah. Nice. Oh, we didn't even mention they actually just announced like yesterday or two days ago.

Disney and Marvel are doing a conference in September to announce superhero games. It's their first ever video game conference. It's a museum. So we will see some superhero games very soon. Maybe they'll even be. They hinted at the one from Amy Henneck is making a superhero game with Skydance entertainment. So they hinted at getting to see that. Yeah, it definitely seems as though we have not seen our last superhero game.

And in fact, there may be many, many more of them in the near future. That is for sure. We'll stay tuned and we'll talk about those when they come out. In the meantime, let's take a break. And then we'll be back for one more thing. Hi, everyone. I'm Adam McLeod. And I'm Alexis B. Preston.

And we host a show called Comfort Creatures, the show for every animal lover, be it a creature of scales, six legs, fur, feathers, or fiction. Comfort Creatures is a show for people who prefer their friends to have paws instead of hands. Unless they are raccoon hands, that is okay. That is absolutely okay, yeah. Yes. Every Thursday, we will be talking to guests about their pets, learning about pets in history, art, and even fiction. Plus, we'll discover differences between pet ownership across the pond. It's going to be a hoot on MacKee.

maximum fun. Hi, everybody. My name is Justin McRoy. And I'm Sidney McRoy. Dr. Sidney McRoy. That is true. It's important in this context because we host a medical history podcast called Sawbones. Oh, I thought we were going to.

We shouldn't work on that. Sawbones. Sawbones isn't afraid to ask the hard hitting questions. Like, are vaccines as safe and reliable as they want us to believe? Yes. Do I have to get a flu shot? Yes. Okay.

Is science a miracle? No? We have a lot of great history for you and a lot of laughs. And sometimes the history is so bad that there's no laughs. But you'll learn something, you'll feel something. It's always sawbones. That's right. Every week on maximum fun.org.

And we are back for one more thing. Maddie, how about you go first? What's your one more thing? It is unintentionally related to superheroes, actually. I've been playing a fighting game called Multiversis, and Superman is in it and he is massively overpowered and people are mad because you can't put Superman in a fighting game.

And that's what I'm going to talk about for the next hour. No, I'm not really going to talk about that. Wait a minute. You're telling me that Superman can beat LeBron James. Superman can beat Aria Stark in a fight? I would not have guessed that. Superman? Superman can fly, you guys.

And you can fly over and pick you up and then carry you off the stage and kill you. And like, that's so funny. The funnier thing actually is a magic. that Aria Stark is capable of beating Superman at all. Apparently. Right, of course. Or that like Jake the dog and Finn the human and well, Shaggy is actually in this game.

Maybe Needle has kryptonite. It's a kryptonite needle. Right. Yeah. There's a kryptonite needle. So multiverses, obviously, from how we're talking about it, is a video game, a fighting game that has characters from many, many different Warner Brothers-owned franchises. And this is a game that I definitely made fun of when I first saw the trailer because I was like, this looks like Space Jam 2.

Well, yeah. And I don't necessarily mean that as a compliment because I. Because Space Jam 2 is bad. Let me think about how I want to say this. Well, you know what? Space Jam 2 is fun. It's fine if you like it. You're being so diplomatic.

Well, Kirk, you are the man who's come on the show and said, you think Ready Player 1 is fun. I've never seen that movie. We tried to be open-minded here about about. Not the book, though. Dumb fun action stuff. To be fair, space jam, we are out of the demographic for a space jam. Absolutely. That's true.

Like, we were in the demographic for Space Jam 1 back in the day. Yeah, absolutely, I was, and I thought it was great. Yeah. Ready Player 1 is pretty bad. It's a pretty bad movie, honestly. Anyways, I'm just rethinking my past opinion. Anyway, carry on. Because it's okay for things to just be a list of silly references and you look at it and you're like,

I know what that's from, and then you move on with your life. Not everything has to be extremely deep. but sometimes when a thing is just a list of references, you start to feel like maybe Warner Brothers is stealing your wallet, and it's not a great feeling. And multiverses kind of look that way to me. I just want to say, as a parent of a toddler, my toddler gets very excited when she sees something she recognizes.

So like when we see the FedEx truck. It's a human experience, okay? When we see the FedEx truck, she'll be like, FedEx, FedEx. United States Postal Service. So I understand. Having Shaggy turn up in a fighting game is the equivalent. Like a list.

Or, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a list of references in general would be appealing to younger people. That is a great comparison because seeing Superman fighting LeBron James is about as excited as your toddler gets about the FedEx truck. That is how I feel playing this game. So multiverses, I would say the reason they've pulled this off is because this is actually a really deep and fun fighting game, which it did not have to be. And I feel like everyone I've talked to has kind of had that same conclusion of like people were maybe given like a crappy hand here. the developers who had to make this game. Like, they were given Space Jam to, essentially.

And they were like, this is a premise everyone's going to think is boring corporate IP, like getting smashed together and is like unfun hackery. But you guys need to make it into an actually fun fighting game. And they did that. And they don't know how or why, but they've done this. And it is an extremely fun game. I am kidding around about Superman. But Ron James is like legit fun as hell to play as in this game.

Like, he has a basketball. It is a different set of moves without the basketball. It's just fun, man. You fucking dunk on Shaggy, and then you smack Wonder Woman, and you're LeBron James. I don't know. It's fun. It's funny to watch and also fun to play, which is all you really want of a Super Smash Brothers clone, you know?

Worth noting the director of the game and the co-founder of the company, Player First Games, that's the name of the company that made in this game. Director Tony, I'm not sure to pronounce his last name, Hune. he has been a game developer for like 20 years. It was a designer of Riot on Sony, Santa Monica, and God of War. So they got some talent for this game, clearly. And it's free to play, by the way. You do have to slowly level up to unlock all the characters and stuff.

It's kind of hard to get them all for free. I will concede that. But LeBron is one of the free characters. So you could give him a try if you wanted to for zero bucks. So I will play this game. I will play this game immediately, as soon as they add Tony Soprano. He's owned by Warner Brothers.

They're adding the wicked witch of the West. So like stranger things have happened, man. Like Elfa was going to join this game. And I'm like, I don't even know why I'm excited for this. I feel like I've gone all the way back around on multiverses now. And I mean multiverse says with an ES instead of Versus with the US. Because I'm like, this game's kind of fun to me now. There's funny one liners.

And like, it's funny for Shaggy to be like in a fighting. gate. Like, I don't know. If you kind of like turn off your cynical self and just enjoy it for what it is, it's like, it's kind of awesome. Tony's special ability is he takes out of Satriol sandwich and just say, I mean, that is the thing that would be in this game.

One of Shaggy's things is, is taking a sandwich out of nowhere just as Shaggy does on Scooby-Doo. So, like, all the characters kind of have little bits that they do that are like part of who they are and all their barks and stuff. Oh, Tony Soprano, he could, he could summon ducks, just like a flack of ducks. Then he has a panic attack.

And then he has a panic attack, yeah. You do a picture like Stringer Bell taking on Carrie Coon from the leftovers. Oh, my God. Oh. Yes. She gives him a gun and he shoots her in a bulletproof vest. Perfect. Oh, man.

Also, they own Sesame Street now. You could have Elmo pop up. Oh, man. Yeah, you could have Miss Piggy in there. She's like, freaking karate style. Like, she could kick ass in there. I don't think Miss Piggy is Sesame Street. You're right.

She's owned by the Muppet Show. The Muppets are owned by somebody else now. Right. You're right. Right. Just the Henson is the connection. Yes, but Sesame Street is part of HBO. But who knows?

Anything is possible in this multiverse world we live in now. Yeah, we're just stuck with Elmo, I guess. Well, Almo, Big Bird. The Count. The Count. Like, one, two, three, you're dead. Yeah, the Count is a vampire. We got to get the Count's vampire abilities on the table here.

Oh, my goodness. The Count versus Polly Walmus. Goodness. I'm going to play this game. That sounds like a lot of fun. It's fun. It's stupid. Nice.

That's multiverses. All right. I'm going to go next. My one more thing is a show that I just finished watching the eighth season of on Netflix. Though most of the seasons of this show are actually on Hulu. It's a show called Alone. Do either of you know about Alone? No.

This show rocks. This is for people looking for something a little different. If you want to watch a, it is, I guess, technically a competition reality show, though it doesn't have any of the baggage that a reality show implies. This is a survival, a wilderness survival competition. It's a history channel show. I think it airs on A&E, but it's on streaming, so you can just watch it, like I said. And the way it works is 10 people, 10 individuals who are all real hardcore outdoors wilderness

survival experts are given, they get their choice of like 10 items, and they're given a kind of basic kit. So it's like really basic stuff, a bow and arrow, you know, a fire starting kit, fishing line, little things like that. from a set group of things. And then they're each dropped off at different points in the remote wilderness. The eighth season was in British Columbia. They do a lot in Canada.

They've done like Patagonia. They've done the Arctic one season. So really hostile environments, just alone. And then they're given a bunch of cameras. So they have their own cameras. There's not like a camera crew with them. And then they film themselves as they just try to survive for as long as possible. And the person who makes it the longest gets $500,000.

And that's the show. And like, it is a riveting show. Emily loves this show and has watched it. We're both, you know, pretty big campers. We like being outdoors. Nothing like as hardcore is on this show. But it is fun to watch people who are good at that kind of thing. She watched a lot of it and I watched it kind of ambiently.

And it was fun to just come in and see what was going on. There's always something wild, you know. They all kind of gradually starve. But they're also like, someone will catch a fish and it's the most exciting thing ever. They have weird and injuries, I'm sure. There are some pretty gnarly injuries. that have happened over the seasons. Not anything too horrible,

but a couple where it's like pretty intense where they like medically lift people out. A lot of people get pulled for medical reasons because they get too skinny, which is a common thing. They'll get to the end and it's like the final four people are just in it to win it.

But then they'll just be like, you can't stay like you're too thin. Your heart rate is up. Yeah, I was going to ask, are there ethical, is this ethically questionable? I mean, clearly there's some type of ethical like we're pulling you out.

They have some guidelines. Oh, they do have. have health guidelines. And I mean, the people are there willingly, but there is an element, I will say. People are at squid game. Well, no, no, I know. That's what I'm saying. There is an element to watching this show where you'll see people talk about like, I really need, you know, to take care of my nephew who can only stay with us this many months of the year. If we had that $500,000, it would make all the difference. And there is an undercurrent that just feels like, wow, in a more equitable society, people wouldn't do this, even though. I would think it would

also be some just regular adrenaline. These people, yes, like that's only there in the eye of the beholder. And like this show is people who are fantastic of the stuff who love being outside trying to see what they can do. And it's really amazing. And the last thing I'll say is that the real challenge that most people run into is the psychological challenge. It's not a lot of times there are people who will survive. Like they'll be doing pretty well and they'll just tap out because they're like, I miss my family. Like I miss my kids. I can't do this anymore. You know, the last months.

You know, I think one guy made it 100 days in one season. And there are people who are more suited to it than others, but the psychological aspect of it is fascinating because they're truly alone and they're just talking into the camera. And there are people, some of them are so funny and they come up with ways to sing and entertain themselves. They make musical instruments. It's just like a fascinating, very human, cool show about like ingenuity and survival. And I really recommend it. It is a show I think a lot of people don't know about it.

So it's worth checking out if that sounds interesting to you. I found just watching a whole season to be like a riveting, very cool experience. So it's called Alone. It's on Netflix. It's also, I think there are a bunch of seasons on Hulu as well. And yeah, it's a cool show. I'm just trying to imagine us in a different and a parallel reality where Squid Game is real. Like you're just excitingly talking about this murder game that you're watching on TV.

Yeah, they're all their willingly. And they make a lot of money. And they make a lot of money if they win. Well, and that is, and you know, that is kind of the thing about Squid Game is that in the end it does wind up being also this sort of profound statement about humanity and why we do not we do. And what you can survive. Yeah. No, it isn't really very much like Squid Game.

Jason, what's your one more thing? So by one more thing is not better call Saul. It's the fact that I had a child. It's two more things. I might have heard about this last week. I'm excited for you. Oh, wait, no, you heard about it today for the first time. Amanda was pregnant for nine months and you guys had no idea.

Yes, I had a child. I've gone from one to two children, which is. an interesting experience. That's twice as many as before. Yeah, it's exhausting. Because suddenly you have to switch from two people taking care of one person to each of you taking care of a different person. Right, they've got you evenly matched. You have one more, you're going to be outnumbered. Yeah, you've got to be careful. No, we're not going to have one more. We're stopping a two. Kaffin at a two is our limit. Yeah, just keeping the decks even. That's good, I think. Balanced experience. But yeah, a couple of random thoughts. First of all, it's been interesting.

to see how our oldest has reacted or not reacted because she does not seem very interested so far in him, which makes sense because he's just like little helpless. You forget how small they are when they first pop out and they don't do a lot in those early days. They poop eight times a day in the first like early days. All they do is eat every two hours. Yeah, it takes a few months before they become really fun. But what's happened, what's been happening recently the past year or so is my toddler has gotten incredibly fun. and is now like super fun to hang out with. So I'm lucky because I don't have to do the feeding.

And so my wife is like breastfeeding our baby. And I get to hang out with the toddler. So like tomorrow morning, I'm going to go to the grocery store and take my toddler who loves going to the grocery store and just hang out with her. So that's, that part is fun like getting to hang out with the bigger kid. But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what this brings and what this means for my free time, video gaming time, et cetera, et cetera. So far, Steam Deck has been useful.

Switch has been useful And yeah, it's a trip, man It's a trip having two kids It's a trip Yeah I will say that as a younger brother Of an older sister That's a pretty great way to be

It's a pretty cool to be a younger brother Of an older sister In terms of being a balanced human being We were very thrilled This is exactly what we wanted You wanted one of each We wanted an older girl And then a younger boys

It's a good setup. Really? Wow Why that? Just because? Yeah, we wanted one of each I don't know. I don't know why. Oh, but you didn't matter. Well, Amanda's, it's also, that's what Amanda's family dynamic is.

She's the older sister and she has a younger brother. So it worked out nicely. There is something to be said for learning to be friends with a girl and always having a girl who is bigger than you for your whole childhood and that you always have to kind of respect her and like follow her lead. I think that was good for me. Yeah. No, I agree with this. Yeah. It's just like counteracting the society telling you the opposite of that.

stuff. It's good for you. I think that's a good thing. I'm on board with this. Also, by the way, fun story that I forgot to tell you earlier, I took a video like two months ago of my oldest, my toddler, my near three-year-old playing Super Mario World for the first time. And I was going to send it to you guys, but then I realized she's wearing the shirt that says big sister. And so I couldn't send it to you. So now I'll have to send you guys. I would have just thought it was a Bioshock 2 reference. Like, yeah, that would be little sisters, though. No, it was the big sisters in Bioshock 2. Oh, Bioshock 2. There are.

Got it. It would be the truly deep. But yeah, I'm sure I'm sure I will be talking much more about the trials and tribulations of having two children. We've established this new reality. Yeah. And the sitcom that is triple-click. We just got a new member. A new character.

We've got to shake things up. In season three. Yeah, for season three, we got to shake things up. New origin story? Is that anything? I'm going to say it works. It fits in with the theme. I think so.

Yep. Yep. My baby superhero. Nice. Well, that's very exciting. Congratulations again. Yay. Yeah, we look forward to many more stories.

Yeah. All right. Well, we did it. We made another episode of Triple Click. Look at us. We sure did. We did it. Good times.

All right, everybody. Well, we will be back in your feeds in another week to talk more about video games. Until then, I'll see the two of you next week. See you guys. Next week. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and I'll see.

also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun podcast network. And if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximum fun.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple clickpod. Send email the triple click at maximum fun. and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

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