Triple Click - What's The Deal With: Console Launches?

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

What are they, rocket ships? In honor of the recent release of the PS5 and Xbox Series X, the gang looks back at the history of video game console launches. Which were the best ones? Which were the worst? And what were Kirk, Maddy, and Jason's personal experiences with console launches? Let's discuss!!!One More Thing:Kirk: Immortals Fenyx RisingMaddy: FuserJason: A Futile And Stupid Gesture (2018)Links:Support Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Fill her up with console fuel because it's time to launch in five, four, three, two. Welcome to Triple Click where we bring the games to you. This week we're talking about console launches. What makes a good one? What makes a bad one and what to make of the most recent ones. All that plus an archaeological guest and one more thing. So stick around. I'm Kirk Hamilton.

I'm Maddie Myers. And I'm Jason Schreier. Hey. We are back. Hey. Welcome to the show. We're so glad that you're here. And if you are a maximum fun member and you're supporting the creation of this show, we are

extra glad that you're here and we're extra grateful for you. Thank you so much to all of the members who support the creation of this show. We are a totally listener supported show. You may not know that. You probably do if you listen to us, but you might not know that. Yeah, maybe you do. Now you know that. What that means is that we own this show. We put it out through maximum fun. They're really great and they're a really cool network. But this is our show. We make it. No one tells us what to do. We don't sell ads. We don't do any of that nonsense. We are funded entirely by you. the listener, it's just you and the three of us. Kind of wonderful when you think about it.

If you would like to be a part of that project, go to maximum fun.org slash join, and you can become a member and you get access to our bonus beans casts. We just put up a new one about Mel Brooks movies. We're going to be doing a video game in December, which is cool. We'll announce that maybe next week. And, of course, all of the beans cast that we've done in past months, plus all kinds of other bonus content from other maximum fun shows, and you just get to support what we're doing here and be a part of that, which is very cool. by all means go to maximum fun part of the cool kids club.org slash join and join the cool kids club it's the place to be yeah so hey so before we get started i just want to say first of all we have

the smartest listeners in the world so shout out to our listeners shout out to them so a few weeks ago as many of you enjoyed uh we heard from an engineer who was telling us a little bit about how the ps5 controllers haptic feedback vibration works which is really cool and we got a lot of positive reactions to that. And coincidentally, just last week we got an email from someone who, in response to our Assassin's Creed Valhalla episode, who said, hey, I'm an archaeologist. And it turns out that I work in East Anglia and dig up Saxons and Vikings and know some things about that stuff. So I got on the phone with him and why don't we play our little chat. Hello. So I'm John House and I'm an archaeologist who works in the UK, specifically East Anglia.

in England, so somewhat the front line, I suppose, of Viking incursions into Britain in many respects. And do you specialize, do you specialize specifically in Vikings in your work? I don't. The way archaeology works in this country, we kind of have to be a jack of all trades and master of none. So I end up sort of studying every period, if you like. But over my sort of 20 years digging, I have encountered them a lot in different ways, although they're very hard to find. Are they? I mean, I imagine. Yes, archaeologically. They're really difficult to find, actually. Yeah, they're almost invisible in the archaeological record in many ways.

Is that, is the Viking period more difficult than other historical periods? Yes, yeah. I mean, it is sort of technically the dark ages, as people refer to it. And of course, we're reliant solely on archaeology in terms of the Vikings themselves, because they didn't really write too much down. But, yeah, as a people, they tended to sort of mold and to their surroundings quite quickly, seemingly. Yes, and we can see that in Assassin's Creed Valhalla, actually, which you said you haven't played.

No, I haven't played it, actually. No, I think I've heard previous podcasts of yours, which suggest waiting on games until all the bugs are fixed, and the price is a bit cheaper, and I think that's very sensible advice, so I'm going to follow. Good advice, especially with this one, which is one of the bugiest games. I have heard, yeah, it's very buggy. So the reason you reached out, John, is because you wanted to tell us a little bit

about the reality of Vikings as opposed to the way they're portrayed in video games and TV and movies and such. So what is kind of the biggest misconception that we all have about Vikings? So one of the most sort of obvious and striking ones is how violent they are. So we know they are violent and they did raise armies and we know they did do raiding. But I think it's probably a little bit sort of overblown in terms of how much they did. Actually, culturally, they're very sophisticated and, you know, they're master craftsmen, traders, although sometimes in slaves, as we learn. But they, you know, also really explorers, really. So actually many of their sort of best traits aren't violent in any way, really. So, I mean, their exploration stretches

from Iran to Canada, even on your continent. And so the image that we all have is that they're exploring so they can go find treasure and bring it home or go and, like, build their own kingdoms. Is that not what actually happened? So they do, they do, they do look to seek to get money that way, but they are also interested in just settling. So in many places, they do just settle down and become farmers and try and live their lives, really. And that seems to be something we see born out.

And that's probably why they're so culturally rich within our own culture, in British culture, you see. We get a lot of place names from them, and a lot of our language is integrated into our language. and that's not through violence. I think that's through them settling in amongst and blending in with the overall crowd. So the image of Vikings and Saxons and Britain's all constantly at war

might not quite be what actually happens? Yeah, I think it does go on, as I say, and we do have some good evidence for it occasionally. I mean, the part that sort of is slightly misleading is obviously the Saxons did write things down, so they did write historic counts. And they had a vested interest in, portraying the Vikings in as poor a light as possible.

So they certainly made the most of what Vikings did do in terms of their misdemeanors. But yeah, the reality may differ slightly. And we know that the Saxons were quite violent themselves. And, yeah, they certainly could hold their own. There's a good example near a town called Weymouth on the south coast of England, where there's probably a Viking raiding party that's been brutally murdered and massacred. So there was about 50 heads found in a pit and lots of dismembered bodies as well. Wow.

And they were proven to be from Scandinavia. So it seems like the Saxons here may have sort of dealt with a small raiding party in that way. Yeah, that's so interesting. I had and thought, of course, history is always written by the winners. But yeah, the Saxons, most of our history of that area is from the Saxons perspective, huh? It almost entirely, yeah. And it's a good old-fashioned Saxon propaganda. They wanted to kind of look down upon people that weren't following the Christian faith.

And so therefore, they made sure they doubled down on making sure they besmirch their name. But what we don't see in the archaeological record is I've dug many villages across East Anglia. And what we don't find in the cemeteries is brutally murdered women and children. I think I saw a critic complaining that when you desynchronize in the game because you kill a civilian. And he sort of complained, well, I'm a Viking. I can kill whoever I like, surely. They would have just done that. But actually, we don't really see that in the archaeological record.

They don't seem to be massacring people. I think they go and take money and intimidate them. But actually, it's sort of counterproductive to just murder people, sort of as you like, because you want to go back next year and take money from them again or food to keep, if you're a professional warrior, you're obviously not growing your own food. So you rely on taking from the local peasants to keep yourself fed. So is our conception of Vikings as these beer, bearded, like, constant marauders, holding two axes, just raiding everything they see.

Is that from Saxon literature? Is there depictions of that in Saxon literature? Yeah, they certainly do try and make the most of any events like that. When they first raid the Lindisfarme Priory in the North of England, one of the earliest sort of, what regarded as one of the first Viking incursions into England. Yeah, they certainly make a big deal about that. But again, whether these are quite rare incidences, and they jump on it and really make a big deal about it, or whether they actually were more widespread. But we don't really see it, again, in the archaeological record, I don't find cemeteries with monks who have all been chopped into small pieces or show a lot of battle scars on their skeletons, which we can see. Interesting. So, yeah, it doesn't seem to be quite betrayed as it is.

Huh. So, okay, one last question, which is that you mentioned that you have found an exciting archaeological find for yourself from this time. Yes, so I did once find a Saxon warrior who was actually buried on his shield. We could see by the position of the shield boss, so they had these round shields with a sort of circular iron piece in the middle. And that sort of circular iron piece, which was the pit that survived, that was upturned next to his shield. head. So it seems like the actual warrior was buried lying on his shield in the grave. And we had certain other grave goods in there as well. He had his spear. The one kind of thing that didn't show up, which we didn't find a sword, which we often don't actually. We do wonder if not many people actually

did carry swords. It might have been more of a rare item for your really elite warrior. But although he may have even passed it on to a descendant or something or possibly an air. How did you find the grave? So that was in a pub car park actually Yeah it was being built on There was a house being built on the On the former pub gardens and car park And yeah we were working through

And we found a number of skeletons actually We found some females as well That were had some very interesting grave goods on them So beaded necklaces and And so other sort of curious items Possibly sort of things they may have considered sacred Or even a little bit magic or something like that.

So yeah, we had some very interesting graves. Well, how did you know to excavate in that specific parking lot? So it had been previously found before. And so we had an inkling, there might be some there. So we went in sort of with the assumption that we might be finding bits like that. And sure enough, we found even more sort of graves. And there'll be many more, actually. There's many residents with people buried underneath their houses.

Wow. Lots of probably gold items and things like that. Probably below their floors, effectively. It's wild to think about how much history is just literally underneath us at all times. John, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been really quite fascinating. And hey, the more we know about Vikings, the better. Yes, yeah.

Hopefully I'll continue to learn and find out a bit more as we go. I'm imagining that all archaeologists wear fedoras and have bullwips while they talk. So that's how I was picturing that conversation. That was very cool. That was very cool. That's how it went down. There was a map and there was like a line going across the map. Yes. Yes, from the beginning to the end of the conversation. And all terrified of snakes. Yes, of course, naturally.

That's just part of it. Here's the expertise. That was very cool. So speaking of history and expertise, on this episode, we are going to be doing another What's the Deal with? And on this episode, in honor of the launch of the new ninth generation of video game consoles, we're going to be talking about what's the deal with console launches. So that is our topic. What's the deal with console launches?

What are they, rocket ships? What do they think they're going to space? Where are they going? Where are you going, console? Why are you launching? Where you got to be? So, yeah, consoles have been launching for a very long time. I think going by the sort of Wikipedia and agreed upon Generation Breakdown,

we were in the ninth generation of consoles. and then... That's too many. That's too high. It's a lot. It's a lot. Especially given that the Nintendo generation is like Gen 3, which is the first one that I think a lot of people really kind of think of.

At least people who are below, like my age or below. So there are some people who are around. And those are the only people who matter in this conversation. I don't want to exclude anyone who's older than me. This is for people our age only who understand that the NES is the first console we have to care. It was the first video game console over. So I want to kind of try to really get at the answer to that. question. What is the deal with console launches? What makes a good console launch and what are some

notable console launches throughout the ages? We're of course going to be talking from our own personal experience mostly. Like we're not going to just go through the very first console launch of all time or anything. So I'm curious to maybe start with a question. Maybe Maddie, I'll throw this to you. What was the first console that you bought at launch? Okay. I believe this was actually the Nintendo Wii, which is a surprisingly late answer, but my slightly modified answer is probably the GameCube, because although that was technically a Christmas present, it was still pretty soon after the launch. And so it felt very exciting and special back in 2001 to get that for Christmas after it having launched in the fall.

Yeah, I guess that counts if it like, right, like a fall launch and a Christmas, like holiday gift, kind of a deal. That counts as a launch console. It was very, very special to me. Jason, what was the first console that you bought or received? received as a gift at launch. So the first launch console that I remember getting was the PlayStation 2. And I remember it very vividly because I was a big fan of the PlayStation 1 and like all the JRPGs you could play on it. I was one of those who like played Nintendo at first and then switched to PlayStation

because Final Fantasy moved over there, which like drove all the RPGs to come. And so I was really excited for the PS2. Really surprised to hear that was your journey. Yeah, I know. I can't believe this. Wouldn't a guess. Totally new information. And so I was really excited for the PS.

2 and then it came out and it had like all these atrocious launch games. I remember sitting there and I was so excited for this like brand new console and then I get like Ever Grace and Eternal Ring these two like shitty RPGs. It has so many games like for our own document that we're using to keep track of it, the launch games for the PS2 is just blank because I like looked at the list of launch games and I was like none of these matter and there's like 18, 20, like there's so many launch games and all of them I was like, oh, that was a swing and a miss. All right.

That's pretty funny. Should have gotten a GameCube, honestly. Yeah, well, the early 2000s were just like, this is the era, this is the era of filler, filler games, and the PS2 just launched a lot of this. Tons and tons of filler, and there was more filler to come. But like the real gems didn't start coming until a few months later, a year later. And then I remember getting Final Fantasy 10 and being like, okay, finally, there's stuff to play on this thing.

So the first console that I bought at launch was the Wii U. So it was way later because I owned... Because you're a PC gamer. I really was when I grew up and I've said this many times on the show, but my parents didn't let me have game consoles growing up. So getting when it launched was out of the question. And I bought myself an Xbox in college, but that was way after launch.

It was like a year or two after the console had been out, or maybe a year. And so it wasn't until the Wii U where I pre-ordered a Wii, which is pretty funny, considering that that was like wound up being this sort of failed console in a lot of ways. But I remember buying it and then being like, well, why did I buy this year later and really regretting it? But at this point in your life, you were working for Kataku, so buying it was a worthy...

It was a very different circumstance than what you two were describing. I think... So I've been kind of looking through the history and trying to place what these launches must have been like, and I'm really interested in hearing what those kind of turn of the century, 2001 launches were like, because when I looked all the way back, you know, the Nintendo, the Game Boy, even the Super Nintendo, those consoles launched in Japan and then launched in North America, in the West where we all live. And it was a much more kind of staggered thing. There'd be some early, like some early units available.

But there wasn't like a big launch until it kind of looks like the N64 was one of the very early ones, where it was like, this is coming out, and they delayed it a bunch of times, and people were so excited for it to come out. So it kind of wasn't, I mean, that was in 96, so that was only a few years before the GameCube and the PS2, both of which launched with like a real launch and it was this new thing and it came out for the holidays. And I'm curious, I guess Maddie, what's your memory of your sense of the GameCube when you first got one and like how many games there were and what games you could play? Oh boy. I was so excited about Super Smash Bros. Melee, which is kind of a cheat answer as well because that technically wasn't a launch title, but I also got that at Christmas. And that just, that is such an extreme strong memory for me.

but also Super Monkey Ball is like a great launch game for the GameCube like genuinely an amazing launch game and when people ask me about good launch games I say that one and it's not a joke answer but mostly I remember that being an important signing on point for me in my gamer identity for lack of a less corny way of putting it like up and up before getting a GameCube essentially at launch I was very much like playing consoles at other friends houses didn't really see myself as a gamer I feel like this is how a lot of women in my age group grew up and felt I had a game boy, I played some games on PC, but I wasn't really like tapped into a lot of these things, even though I was playing games at friends' houses and so on and so forth.

And so like getting the GameCube in 2001 was like, this is it. Like I'm committing to this. I'm getting this thing at launch because I've decided I really give a shit about this. And now I'm tapped into video games. And like from then on, I was just like, yeah, I'm going to like have consoles and PC games and try to actually keep up with this bizarre lifestyle choice. So it was exciting for multiple reasons. But I don't know if that's because the GameCube was a good console

or just because of the period of time in my life or maybe a combination. Like I got kind of lucky. There were some good games on there even at launch. Yeah, those are good launch games. Luigi's Mansion was also, I'm going to watch. That's right. Oh, man. Wow. Because, yeah, and I think that, I mean, everyone talks about Super Mario 64

is the greatest, like the original great launch game. And I think one of the reasons Nintendo's said that they delayed the N64 was because the software wasn't there yet and they wanted to have it there and when it launched with that game. I mean, I remember as a kid going over to my friend's house and seeing Mario was 64 and I still think of that as the quintessential launch game. Maybe we'll talk about what makes a great launch game in a little bit. Mario World also came with the Super Nintendo. And that was a launch packet. That's true, but I really think of 64, but I think of Mario 64 as the quintessential launch game.

It's funny. I kind of don't because I actually, my example would be Soul Calibur on the Sega Dreamcast in 99 because I didn't have that at launch, but I had a friend who did. And Soul Calibur was such a good game. Like, not to say the Dreamcast wasn't good, but like that launch game was such a cut above the other launch games in my opinion and such a like revolution for fighting games as it were. And like, it's still so good. Like I still have a literal Dreamcast and Soul Calibre on it and I'll like still play it. sometimes because I think the original Soul Calibur is just that good. So to me, that's a really, really strong memory. But that might also be because I had a lot of friends who played fighting games in high school. So for me, I'm like, that was the launch game I remember. But like for you guys, maybe it's Mario. Well, it's not just memorable. Like, it's not just memorability, I guess. When I'm thinking about what makes a great launch game, I feel like it needs to be a game that in some

way encapsulates what makes the console different. And to me, Mario 64 really does that because it's in 3D, and that was the whole promise of the Nintendo 64. So it was this idea of like Mario like you've never seen before. So it was great as Super Mario World is. Mario 64 is the one where you know, it's just like looks completely different than any Mario game before it in the way that the N64 made this promise. I don't know, Jason, am I right on that front? Yeah, no, that's definitely true. But I think that that was only possible because Nintendo had this precedent of like packing in these Mario games at launch that were just mind-blowing and incredible. And really, if you look back in Nintendo history, well, so, okay, so let's go back in Nintendo history just to go through all

the console launches real quick. Would you say that you want to zoom out? Yeah, what? I do want to zoom out. I'll use the C-stick on the N64 controller to zoom out to the camera. So let's go in backwards order, right? So switch, breath of the wild, no-brainer. One of the best game. ever made. We, U had kind of a mediocre launch for various reasons. Yeah, we don't talk about it. It's fine. But it also came with New Super Mario Brothers U and Zombie U and a few

other, like, decent games. Yes. To really quickly call out Zombie U, I think the Zambu does qualify as a good launch game because it used the controller so slickly. I know they made a version of it that didn't need the Wii U controller, but playing that game with the Wii controller, I was like, oh, this is like a new thing and it had that feeling of this

explains to me why this console is different, but anyways, continue. I also had a pretty good Mario game that came with it. Before that was the Wii, and that came with Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess. Okay. Wii Sports, though. And Wii Sports. Yeah, and Wii Sports, which is I have a Wii story that I will get to shortly.

But before that was GameCube, as you mentioned, Maddie, Luigi's Mansion, like, melee, like, that's an incredible lineup. These are all pretty good launches. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, Nintendo is just like above way, way above the rest of the launchers. Yeah, they're allowed to have the Wii U be like a little bit of flaw compared to the one that I got. That was the one of the least exciting launch. The 3DS also, a very flop of a launch lineup. And then, yeah, N64, Super Nintendo and Mario World,

and then regular Nintendo, we don't actually know, like, what the launch lineup looked like because they're so, like, history is spotty in the games. But at a certain point, Nintendo started selling NES with Super Mario Brothers, the original. So that was, that was, obviously, a killer. A good game. Killer title.

Yeah. Pretty cool games. So, yeah, Nintendo just has this history of, like of doing that of like setting the bar really high for launch lineups and then you look at the other consoles over all over the years like the PS2 um or like the Xbox series X and the launch but the very first Xbox had Halo Combat evolved which is like an incredible launch title yes 100% was introducing the idea of the twin stick shooter to right a huge audience and actually did evolve combat in my humble opinion as a person who chose a side yeah without that I

I mean, without that, the Xbox might not still be around today. Like, that Xbox needed that because of it was brand. Yes, that was the entire reason I bought an Xbox. And that, I guess we played a lot of fusion frenzy, which is like, that was a game that I don't even know. That's actually a pretty good game, though. It is. Yeah, that's a classic game. Also, Perfect Dark.

People were really into Perfect Dark on the Xbox. They were. That was sort of more of a cult favorite. We were talking about Perfect Dark Zero. Yeah, that was like a weird. Like, I don't think that was considered a success at the time. I like that game, but I don't actually know that it was a commercial. commercial success. So let me tell you guys my favorite console launch story. So the Wii comes out in

2006, November of 2006. And so this is like in the wake of a ton of rumors and like weirdness. And everyone was like people who were Nintendo fans or even fans of consoles just watch the Wii get revealed and their heads just exploded because it's like, look at this waggly controller, Wii mode thing. Like what is going on here? Like nobody, because before this was the GameCube, which was a pretty traditional console. Nintendo had not gotten into the gimmicks yet. The Wii was just like just blew everyone away in both good and bad ways. People made fun of the name, like Wii.

It was called a Wii. Like, is that like a dick or what? Uh-huh. So cut to November. I was excited for this thing because there was a new Zelda coming out on it. And Zelda was one of my favorite series. So I decided with a couple buddies, I was at NYU at the time in 2006. I decided with a couple of buddies that we would go and wait online for the midnight launch in Times Square

because they were doing this big thing. And this is one of the craziest events I've ever been to. This line went all around, like, blocks and blocks all of Times Square. They later said it was 5,000 people who showed up that night. We got there at about 8 p.m. Women were going around. It was like, I guess, booth babes at the time. Yeah, yeah.

Promotional models. Promotional models. With, like, consoles on like these mobile stations that they would take to people. Like the actual real consoles? The actual consoles. It was like demo stations. Like the type of you would. would say it would be, except they were mobile and they could bring them around.

So it was like one woman was like carrying a battery, like a car battery. Like you're wheeling a generator around? She's cranking it for you so you can play the game. It's possible also that it was like at specific stations as you as the line progressed. I don't remember 100%. This was many years ago. It's way cool. I like the car battery version.

Yeah, sure. They were generators, portable generators. But they were doing demos of the game so you could play like demos of the game while you were waiting in line. demos with Wii games, which is really cool. And it was just like a party atmosphere. It was really cool. I remember having a lot of conversations with people. It was really cold, so we were all like bundled up and hanging out.

Is this event where Reggie Fezami went in high five people, or was that like 3DS? Was that a little bit later? I feel like I've seen this video. I think that was later. That feels like a story about something that can't have really happened. I think it did. I was there. I was there.

But it sounds like a dream. It was at 3DS. That's what it was. There was a 3Dist launch event that was like, I was there as press and watch dredgy, like, go around and high five. But are you abstain to high five, right? To maintain your own activities. Oh, of course.

Yeah, ethics. No, no, no, no. I must not. But anyway, let me get back to this story. But can I have a quote, sir? So, when's fire up? I'm coming to America. Sorry, go ahead.

So I finally got my Wii, which I had pre-ordered from Best Buy at like 3.30, maybe four in the morning. So I take it back to my dorm and I'm so excited. I'm like, what am I going to play first? am I going to do some bowling? I'm like amazed you got one. I thought this was going to end with you not getting it. But you got the console.

Well, so I pre-ordered it. Like most people have pre-ordered it beforehand. And it was just like standing in line just for fun, like more than anything, to be one of the first to get it. So I took it home, so excited. I'm like, what should I play first? Should I do some bowling? Maybe some tennis with my roommate. Maybe I'll play some Zelda and see what it's like with the weak motion controls.

And I load it up and it freezes. And I'm like, oh my God. And it turns out I got this like defunct console at launch and nothing was like more deflating than coming home after waiting in line for eight hours of this defunct console. And then I took it back to Best by the next day like immediately got a new one. It was fine. But it was such a bummer that night. You had such an in a way easier experience. I could not get a Wii at launch despite waiting in line.

I had not preordered it. I guess because I just didn't know I needed to. And so I went, I did multiple stores, multiple midnight waits in line. with people I did not know, made friends, etc. There were no promotional models letting me play a Wii on a car generator. Like I was just standing there in the cold trying to get a Wii. I did eventually get one. And I don't even remember getting it.

Like that memory is not in my mind. I remember playing the games, of course. But like, I just remember waiting in line at multiple stores for multiple weeks trying to get one. Because they were in very, very high demand at the time. Yeah. So was the we the dawn of the, like, major hype, impossible to get the console for a significant period of time after launch thing with the console launch? To me it was. I'm sure there were other consoles that had that, but that's the

one I remember personally as being, it was in really high demand. It was way cooler than anybody thought it was going to be. Like, Wii Sports became a party game, which sounds so silly to say now, but like I would have dozens and dozens of people at my apartment night after night to play bowling, which is like, that's not even anything compared to the games we can play now. But at the time, it was like the coolest shit in the world that you could like use the controller to bowl. And that was it. That was all the game was. But it was still like, that's so freaking cool.

Like we can bowl in someone's apartment. So it actually, it hasn't been as much of a trend as you would think because not a lot of until now, like this generation, the consoles. But that's a little bit of the pandemic and supply issues. But most of the time, I mean, consoles like kind of. have ebb and flow and if you're really paying attention you can snag one um it's just like if you're just casually looking for one um then sometimes it's harder to find like the ps4 was hard to find for like various periods but if you were looking for one you could find it same of the switch where it was like it would go on and off like different points depending on demand it was pretty hard to get this

past year yeah right the switch still isn't that is yeah that's true the we was one of those exceptions where it was like sold out for months and people like they had a real supply shortage issues of that. The Wii was like the phenomenon. I can't think of another console that I've ever seen become a phenomenon in the way that the Wii did. And that was pretty, that was like, it came out and that was pretty immediate, because I was sort of not

paying super close attention at the time. So it wasn't, it wasn't immediate that it, like, it became a cultural phenomenon. It took a little while for, like, We fit to really take off. Yeah, I'm thinking about the TV news reports of, like, retirement homes where they're all playing Wii sports together. Yeah. So the, the console came out in 2006. it didn't really become a cultural phenomenon until like 2008.

And that was when the shortages happened. And that was when like the nursing homes had them. And like everybody seemed, everybody's grandparents seemed to want. Yeah, video games became cool in 2008. And everybody's parents wanted a Wii. It's funny that it became cool with a launch game. Like it wasn't a new thing that came to Wii that then drove it to that level. It was a game that it had been packed in.

It just took it that long to kind of permeate into the culture. But I think that helped that it was a pack-in game because it was. It was like all you had to buy was just the Wii, and then you already had Wii sports, which was the game that everyone cared about. And I don't feel like there's a comparable example to that in our list here of any other console that had that situation. Well, the thing is, oh, there's no other console like the Wii because there's another console that needs, like, a game to show off what it could do in the same way. Right.

Right. There was some, like, the Wii U is the closest comparison. But even that isn't quite the same as the Wii where it's like, oh, it's like a tennis rack. in my hand. Like there was nothing. There's never been anything like that. Well, it's funny to think about the switch because like one-two switch is the closest thing to that for that system. But I would say the Breath of the Wild in some ways was like a launch game in that way. Because playing an epic open world game that you can play for hundreds of hours using the switch where you can play it on your TV and then take it with you on the plane, that did wind up being a distinct and

interesting experience. Jason, I remember you and I being at GDC together and like sitting in our hotel room and ignoring everybody playing Breath of the Wild and talking repeatedly about just like, this is so cool that this kind of a game can now be played on this system. So it's a little bit different, but that did feel like a kind of a big deal as a launch. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think might be the best launch, definitely one of the best launches ever. Certainly in terms of like sales momentum and critical acclaim, it was like, like when the switch came out, it was apparent right away that this thing was like Nintendo finally knocked it out of the park with this console after the Wii's failure just like came out with the console that everybody wanted had an amazing launch game and suddenly everybody was calling for games to be on Switch and if you were like an indie game lucky enough to release in that first year you saw sales go through the roof because it was that first like from 2017 to like mid-2018 there was a shortage of games to play on the switch everybody was trying to get a switch.

A lot of people had switches, and we're looking for games to play on them. So, like, anything that came out on the indie, on the e-shop was just, like, going to get checked out. Now, unfortunately, there's a glut of games, and it's just, like, impossible for indies to get noticed on the switch or on Steam or anywhere. But back then, like, if you were in that window, you really hit the jackpot. So I have a question, which is sort of a topic change. But Jason, I have to ask Jason this because Kirk, I already know your answer is no, because you, were not this kind of person. But Jason, did you ever participate in any console war allegiances? I feel like on this podcast, I've explained that I staked my claim and Xbox as a teenager.

But Jason, were you like hardcore into PlayStation as a teen? Like, would we have fought each other if we had known each other? No, I've never been into PlayStation. As a teen, when, around the week time, I was like, but I was never, so I was never like an online conference. console warrior. I was ever in saying that. But personally, I was like, oh, I like the PS2, but now I'm all in for the Nintendo Wii. Like, I remember switching. I just switched a lot. So, like, I started with NES Super Nintendo, then got the PS1 is my main thing, then the PS2 is my main thing. Then the Wii is my main thing. And then the 360 became my main thing. So I really just rotated a lot. But, like, the only company that I really had any sort of emotional

attachment to was Nintendo and that was just because I loved their series. Right. Right. Not a console company, I mean. Yeah, that's not. Yeah. But I was never like a console warrior. I just never saw the appeal.

I don't know how I ended up in that world exactly. But like at some point after getting a GameCube and being like, well, what should my other console be in addition to the GameCube? Because I can't get all three. That's ridiculous. And I like made the decision that I was going to get an Xbox 360 when it came out. because I liked Halo and I didn't have an Xbox. So I was like, all right, I've made my decision.

And I remember reading game magazines and like going to GameStop and getting into stupid arguments with people about the decision I'd made to get Xbox instead of a PS3 and like having very strong opinions about it. And then I remember years later, I dated a guy who was a PlayStation guy and had never owned any Xboxes. And he was like Romeo and Juliet. It really was. And he like tried to sell me on a bunch of plays. exclusives and we like played resistance together which is like this series of like console co-op

shooters and he was like it's just like halo babe like it's really just like super not the same as halo and it was it was just like very funny to me to like have this i don't know if this is even a common experience or not but that is that is my strong memory of the the mid 2000s was that tension of like well of course you're going to have a Nintendo console it's inarguable they're incredible, you have to have that. But if you're going to get a second console, there is actually significant difference between the Xbox and the PlayStation lineup, at least in that particular time period. I feel like now in the current generation... All of those things are still true. Yeah, it's kind of true again now. Like, you kind of have to stake your claim. Like, you have to

decide if you're going to get a PS5 or an Xbox Series X. Well, that makes for a good segue into the most recent console launch, which of course we've already talked a lot about, though. I guess it's been a little longer since these consoles have come out. And while I guess none of us, no, Maddie, you bought a PS5. So you have actually experienced the launch purchase, but I don't have any. And Jason, you got yours ahead of time. But it does feel like the narrative of these console launches has happened. My sense of that narrative is that it's basically just, why the fuck is it's so hard to get a console?

Yeah, there aren't enough of them. That's the narrative, is that more people want one than can actually get one. And it's a real mess. And both Sony and Microsoft have been talking about how demand. is higher than they had even planned for, and they had planned for a high demand. There's more gamers than ever, folks. Yeah, well, so that, that to me is interesting.

So obviously production is constrained because of the pandemic. But at the same time, Sony is out here saying, we just had our biggest console launch in history. And that would mean that it's the biggest console launch ever, because the PS4, I believe, was before this the biggest console launch ever. So now the PS5 is the biggest console launch ever, which is a really interesting indicator of trends. And I actually think, I remember saying on the show a few weeks ago that I was actually really bullish about these new console launches.

And it just feels like we're in a place where there are more gamers than ever before. There are more people talking about interested in games. The pandemic certainly helped. But even before that, it just felt like gaming had just like really exploded over the past couple of years in some really interesting, cool ways. And I think that is kind of the trend of this console launch, which is that like there are more gamers than ever. And there are more people playing games than ever. and that's pretty cool, I think, as someone who has followed this industry.

Just too bad people can't get the consoles. Right, it's definitely a silver lining to the fact that this is a real mess in terms of wanting a console. It's a bummer, but like, I mean, okay, so you don't get to play demon souls. Like, you can, it's not a huge deal if you have to wait a couple of months. We'll play it next year, I guess. Right. Like, it's not like there's a breath of the wild caliber game that I feel,

that I feel really bad that, like, tons of people won't get to play. You know, it does feel to me, like, one dimension of this is the whole scalper's bots dimension that feels like it's, and this is probably like a broader conversation for maybe a different topic, but along with the new graphics cards and just the sense that any new technology that's hot is going to suddenly be the target of this whole network of almost like unstoppable, AI-driven, like, nefarious actors who will just take them all. And I don't know how accurate that really is.

I know that some percentage of sales go to those people, but it feels that way, at least to me looking at it, just thinking, like, I want to get a new graphics card, but I just kind of throw my hands up and I'm like, I don't have time. I can't go watch, you know, like a Twitch channel that just shows you whether there's stock of new gaming consoles. And that feels like a new dimension. Yeah, it's like a game to even get it in the first place. Right. That feels like a slightly new dimension to me. Yeah, I think it feels worse right now because we cannot go to stores in person. And in some cases, you literally can't go because the stores are not actually. offering you in-person stock. So even if you were to go, it's like it doesn't matter. So there's not

the experience of even waiting in line in person and like, oh, maybe you get it, maybe you don't, but you feel like you went somewhere and you did something and there's a certain number of consoles and like you see them passing them out down the line and it's all visible to you. But instead, we're all just waiting in line virtually and you have no sense of whether or not it really works and it feels like maybe a bunch of robots are beating you and also maybe they are. And it just feels bad. It's, this is going to be a weird console launch to look back on, I think, for a billion reasons, but... I just don't understand why these companies can't start a virtual queue and, like, you sign up

and then you get an email one day in however many weeks saying, hey, your pre-orders it does seem like something they could have done. Yeah, I just don't understand. Yeah, there was like a quote from Phil Spencer saying, basically, we're looking into that, or like we're looking into how to improve... I think he was maybe more general. We're looking into how to improve this. Sure, for the next one, for the Xbox series.

Which is an easy thing for him to say, but... Yeah. Yeah, they're looking into it. That's good. But yeah, I'm, I mean, I'm impressed to the new generation. It's exciting. I'm excited to see what, like, future years bring. I think we're going to see, I think the legacy of this console launch is really going

to be the pandemic because I think so much of like what comes in the months, in the months following the launch will be just like delays and slow down and supply issues. And like our personal memories of playing these games during this time that like can't be separated from the launch. You know, the one thing that, and I say this is a person who doesn't have either. with these consoles, but the thing that seems somewhat defining to me about this launch is that actually these consoles, more than past console launches, will play all the games you already have. And that, to me, at least, like the fact that I could get a PlayStation 5 and then just immediately play most of pretty much every PS4 game that I own.

And like continue your saves easily. Exactly. Like they're just going to be right there. That's pretty cool. And that feels a little bit different. Where in the past when a console launched, it was like, okay, what games are that I can play on this thing? And you're seeing there playing Killzone Shadowfall, even though it's like kind of a mediocre game.

And you're like, well, this is what I got. Now it's like, well. And you have to hold on to all your old consoles, even while they're collecting dust, just in case you want to play an old game. Where now it's like, oh, New Game Plus and God of War, like never really got back to that. Or like, oh, I'm going to go replay Bloodborn for the eighth time, even though it doesn't look any better on PS5. So like that does strike me as in terms of launch lineups. Like that's kind of a part of this launch lineup that hasn't existed before. Oh, yeah.

It also feels like this more than any other console launch is. very much like the inevitability of internet on these things like so many things so many so many functions on these consoles are just impossible without internet that essentially it feels like they're they're living the vision of the original Xbox one map back in the day back when it was first announced where it's like it has to be connected to the internet I mean these consoles don't technically have to be connected to the internet but like really they do if you want to do anything they have to keep on connecting to it frequently to work so or up to any meaning You've got to get the patches, if you want Xbox GamePass, if you want your PS Plus downloads, whatever.

Like, you're basically getting internet consoles now. So that feels like another important component of the legacy of this generation of launches. Yeah. Seven years later, we are living in Microsoft's future. We sure are. Well, there's probably going to be many more console launches in the future. But that's where we're at right now. Why don't we take a break?

And then we will be back with one more thing. Does our podcast deep dive into the weirdest Wikipedia pages we can find? Yes. Do we learn about scam artists, remote islands, horrible mascots, beautiful diseases, and mythical monsters? Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And yes. Do we retain any of this knowledge? Probably not.

I'm Emily Heller. I'm Lisa Hannawalt. We make art and comedy and TV shows and also the podcast Baby Geniuses. For the past eight years, we've been trying to learn new things about the world and each other every episode. But let's be honest, this podcast is mostly about two friends hanging out, shooting the breeze, and making each other laugh. We're horny. We like gardening. and horses and we get real stupid on here.

Well, like, in a smart way. Yeah, join us every other week on Maximum Fun. The Beef and Dairy Network is a multi-award-winning comedy podcast here on Maximum Fun, and I would recommend you listen to it. But don't just take it from me. What do the listeners have to say? I would rather stick a corkscrew inside my ear, twist it around and pull out my ear canal like a cork than listen to your stupid podcast ever again.

please stop contacting me. Hell would freeze over before I recommended this podcast, the Beef and Dairy Network, to anyone. Not in a million years. Actually, stretch that. Make it a billion years. No, how long's infinity? That's the Beef and Dairy Network podcast,

available at maximum fun.org, and at all good and some bad podcast platforms. Disgusting. And we are back just in time for one more thing. Jason, what's your one more thing? One more thing. So first of all, just to follow up on a quick thing from last week, I have been replaying the game 13 Sentinel's Aegis Rim,

and I've gotten a good chunk into it and have many, many thoughts, but I don't want to talk about it until I finished it. But I will say that last week I was talking about how I bounced off of it when I first played it. I replayed it, I wrote down all the characters' names, and got way more into it now that I can keep track of everybody. It doesn't surprise me based on what I know about it. It really seems like your shit. Nice.

I'm really into it now. Talk more about that in the future. For now, I want to talk about a movie that I watched the other night. I think it was Thanksgiving or right after Thanksgiving. It's called A Futile and Stupid Gesture. This is on Netflix. Came out in 2018. And I really, really enjoyed it.

It's a movie about the National Lampoon and the person who founded it, the humor magazine. And he has a fascinating story that is really worth watching. He's played by Will Forte, and there are a ton of other people that you have heard of in this movie, playing all sorts of roles. We wind up seeing all of this golden age comedy, 70s and 80s people, all from Bill Murray to Chevy Chase to Gilda Ratner. And like all these, everyone else you've seen in Jim Belushi, John Belushi, who you've seen in like these 70s, 80s movies, Caddyshack Animal House, because those were also directed by this guy who founded the National Lampo. Anyway, it's a great story. Yes, it's a great story. Really worth watching.

There's one thing that is particularly hilarious. So you guys have both seen community, right? Yes. So you know some of the back story between Chevy Chase and Joel McHale on community, how Chevy Chase would constantly fight with Joel McHale and other members of the cast. Apparently there were physical altercations between Joel and Chevy Chase. I knew they all didn't like him. Yes.

They all didn't like him. He would like fight with them. He would complain that shoots were taking too long and like going, through the night or whatever. Like he would just be a disaster on set to the point where Dan Harmon like publicly called him out multiple times, like yelled at him. The wide rumor is that he is a huge,

a very, very talented, massive dick. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's been corroborated by many. Yes. So, in this movie, the younger version of Chevy Chase is played by Joel McCale, which is the funniest thing. Really? And I didn't know this until I watched the movie and I

was like, no way. That is so funny. That is funny. That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. So I did some research afterwards, and apparently Joel McHale said in an interview that he called up Chevy Chase and said, hey, I'm going to play you, I'm going to do this role. And Chevy Chase gave him his blessing, sort of. It was more like Chevy Chase. So Chevy Chase was actually really close friends with the guy who's being commemorated in this movie, the National Ampoon founder. I won't say what happened to him, but he has a tragic story.

So Chevy Chase was actually really happy to see this guy get his due in the public sphere. So he was kind of cool with that. And Joel McHale actually does a really good Chevy Chase. He doesn't play him in like a shitty way. Well, he does probably know the guy really well. He does. But also, but the thing is, he plays him as like the young Chevy Chase that you might remember from like the vacation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christmas vacation. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's really cool and really, really good movie. I really enjoyed it. Maddie, what's your one more thing? Mine is that I played Fuser, which is a video game by Harmonix that I mentioned last week on our Games of Fall episode, because it also came out in the November 10th to 12th window when almost every video game of fall came out. And it is not a next-gen video game. And I feel like it got kind of forgotten. But it's a weird game and a cool game.

and I don't know if I'm going to continue to play it, and I will now explain why that is. So I played a game called DJ Hero back in 2009, and I enjoyed it a lot. It was fun. And this game is the game that everyone is going to compare diffuser, and it is a very deserved comparison, because both of these games let you play as a DJ and their rhythm games and you're mixing mashups, and it is kind of awkward in both video games for different reasons. So DJ Hero is actually not a harmonics game. It's an Activision game. This is back in the like guitar hero versus rock band era.

Like, you know, mid to late 2000s, early 2010s before Harmonics did not do anything quite as successful financially as rock band for several years. And we're in the present day. It was in that time period. And DJ Hero included a lot of really cool mashups. This is like, I would say the period of time when mashups were extremely cool on the internet, just the idea of mashing two songs together. It's not like it's a new concept, but in 2009 it was like peak awesome to do this. Right. It was a little like post-Glee. I feel like Glee was like the heyday of the mashup.

They were all about mashups on Glee. It was a little earlier, but same period. Yeah, Glee was like corporate mashup culture. Like they had fully gone mainstream by the time Glee was cool. But this was like right before that. And I feel like it was like, you know, girl talk, party band, et cetera, et cetera. like bands that people were sharing on the internet and being like, oh, this is listen to this cool mashup artists.

That was how I remember DJ Hero being. But in DJ Hero, you cannot make your own mashups. You're just playing along with mashups that they made for you. And you can't really iterate on them that much. That was the big downfall of that. So a decade later, infuser, that is the precise problem that Harmonix has tried to solve. You are making your own mashups in this game. You are given a drum track, a bass track, a, like,

some type of treble track, be it like a horn section or keyboard section or a guitar section, and then you're given the vocal track, and you have those separated tracks for a ton of popular songs from various, mostly the past 20 years, but you know, there's also some 70s and 80s hits in there as well. And you can mash all of those songs up together and get points based on how many different kinds of tracks you use, because that is the only scoring system that the game can come up with in order to figure out how to tell you whether or not you're doing a good job. And that's actually a pretty big problem because you can make a mix that sounds fucking terrible. Yeah, I was going to say. And get five stars on it because you are obeying

the letter of the law. Like you are technically including whatever effects you need to include or however many parts you need to include and you're switching tracks as many times as you need to, but it sounds like garbage. And I would say the difficult thing about Fuser is to try to obey the directives that it's giving you and actually make a song that sounds really good. And so that's what I've been trying to do. And sometimes it works and it sounds amazing. And I'm like, oh, this is the greatest game ever.

And it really feels like I'm performing music. And I miss performing electronic music for a live crowd. And every now and then it gives me that brief whisper of a hint of a sensation of what that feels like, but not the real thing. But it like reminds me just a little bit and gives me that. that flash of serotonin in my brain. But then I feel bad again because actually creating and mixing music in this game is hard in stupid ways sometimes.

And it's like not quite enough like making music in real life to be satisfying. And the more I played it, the more I was like, I should be practicing piano right now. Like I should turn off this video game and I should go plug in my minipad and just write some music because I don't want to do a worse version of that in this video game. And that might actually be what Harmonix wants me to do. Like, it might be that they would like to get them. They don't want you to play their game. Go record an electronic music.

Like, I feel like that's always kind of the spirit of a harmonics game, though, is to like give you that flash of serotonin that you get when you kind of feel like a rock star or a DJ or an electronic, a master, whatever you want to call it, and then be inspired to go make your own music. Like every harmonics staffer I've ever met has always said like that's always their secret goal is like inspire people to become musicians. But I don't know. It's it's just weird to have that experience with a game that I'm like, oh, it's so close to being good too.

Like there's a lot of cool ideas there. It just doesn't quite land on all of them. So there's no way to play where like other people are waiting it because that's the only way I would think of that like. Well, you can't. You could, I could just become a Twitch streamer. I could just Twitch stream my games and be like. Like, you guys rate it. You guys let me know what you think of my mixes.

But, I mean, I could go on and on. There's a lot of other things about the way that mixing is set up in this game that make it not as satisfying as making songs in real life. That it's just a little bit fiddly at parts. Like, they kind of have a MIDI pad, like a version of a MIDI pad where you can design drum loops in the game, but it's not nearly as good as actually using Ableton and designing drum loops is in real life. And if you know how to do that, which I do, then you're playing this weird, wonky version

of making a drum loop in this video game. And you're like, this kind of sucks. but I get how they're trying to show somebody what it would be like if you wanted to design a drum loop from scratch and you never did that before. But mostly I'm just doing it and I'm thinking to myself, I should go design a drum loop. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. I have this struggle with music games all the time, like where it feels like you're using an LE version of your software and you're like, why am I doing this? Like I own professional software to do this and I know how to use it.

Yeah. But if you don't, then you would probably feel pretty differently about this game. Exactly. Like it can be fun. It sounds like it's not a great instructor at making a good master. which is sort of an issue because at least these games can teach you sometimes. Yeah, it can't really be. I mean, it can't be. It also uses a lot of tune correction, like auto tune correction on making sure that the songs will always go together. But it's not entirely clear to me how it

decides which key to pick. I think it's like the first one of whichever track you choose. It'll correct for that according to the next one you put in. But sometimes I'd be like, well, that's not the one I want to correct for. And you can sort of control something. of that as you unlock more and more tools over the course of playing the game, but it's just, it's not quite meant for that. It's like a shoddy way to do something that actual mixing software will allow you to do in a more complex and nuanced way. And also, you would never create drum loops in the middle of a live concert. You would create them ahead of time. Hang on a real quick.

Just got to add some high high. part of this game is like you doing that and being like, oh, I just got to quickly create like a new baseline for this thing and like throw it together. And like that's not anything anyone would do. I don't know. It's really almost there. I might beat it just so that I can write some more about it because it's an interesting game. But I'm also kind of like I should just go record some music. I don't know. What about you, Kirk? What are you playing? I played a bunch of Immortals Phoenix Rising, the new Ubisoft Open World game, yet another Ubisoft open world game. I do imagine.

Yeah. And I really like this game. I really like it. That's kind of my short take is I think it's really fun and I'm having a great time playing it. I'm actually like enjoying it. I'm finding myself more drawn to it than either watchdogs or A.C. Valhalla for different reasons. I mean, I've played like 50 hours of A.C. Valhalla and I'm just at that point, I think

at the point that you maybe were at a couple weeks ago, Jason, where you were just saying, boy, this game sure is long. You really just reach a point in that game where it's like, wow, it's good. It's great. I want to know what happens, but holy shit, it's long. What are you playing Phoenix Racing on? PC. So I have it. Ubisoft sent me codes on PC and Switch.

So I'm actually able to go back and forth between the two versions with cross-save, which is nice. If I were traveling, I would do that. But I would say the Switch version is pretty nowhere near as nice looking or good playing as the PC or I would imagine, like, current new console version, which like runs a 60 frames per second and looks really good. Yeah, the controls are really. busted on the Switch version. Not busted.

It's just really hard to play on the Switch because the controls feel so off. Yeah. So it strikes me as one word. This is a Switch port that is not a game meant for Switch, really. Like, it's fine on Switch and I would play it on the go. But it is a beautiful looking, like, really high-res, open world, Ubisoft game that is like a full game. That this looks and runs great on PC for me anyways.

Yeah, but you'd think it would run on the Switch well because it's Breath of the Wild with a new series. but I think that's the mistake is that it is not Breath of the Wild. It's actually Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Like you have to think of it as more, it's like a big ass, UbiSat game. It's not designed for the switch. Sure, but I mean, but in terms of the actual game, it's like gameplay. It is Breath of the Wild. Well, no, but it isn't.

It isn't. That's an oversimplification. So this game is actually a perfect hybrid of Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Breath of the Wild. It borrows shamelessly from Breath of the Wild in many respects, but it is also Assassin's Creed Odyssey through and through. You can definitely see that the same team work. on it. So this was developed primarily by Ubisoft Quebec, who made A.C. Odyssey and before

that, syndicate, two of my beloved multi-protagonist Assassin's Creed games. This game is set in, on a fantasy island that is basically all of Greek mythology. So this is yet another game featuring Prometheus and Zeus and all of the whatever. All your faves. The whole gang.

You know them all. From Hades. So it's yet another game where... Yeah, from Hades. Not from ancient Greeks. They're from Hades. Yes. So it's It's very fresh in my mind, having just played that game. And it's really cool. It plays a lot like AC Odyssey in terms of the combat, in terms of getting around, but then it very heavily borrows from Breath of the Wild in terms of the world design, the puzzles, the overall structure of the game.

You go into these little dungeons. You solve physics puzzles. You have a thing that lets you levitate objects just like the magnet in Breath of the Wild. Things are structured. The map works similarly. You drop little colored pins on the map and then go around to them. and mostly my main take on this game, and I've probably played like 10 hours of it, is just I'm really liking it because it's nice to play a game that's so video gamey, where each, it's just a million cool little interesting challenges that are really clearly laid out for you and color-coded and broken into categories, and then you just go and do them. So there will be a little, you know, tile shifting puzzle, and then there will be a sort of physics puzzle where you have to get a ball across a thing, and then you'll go into like the equivalent of a shrine puzzle from Breath of the White.

then you'll have to get the optional chest, which can be really challenging. Some of these have been really tough. You get a set of wings, you know, Icarus's wings that let you glide around, and then you upgrade them with your stamina. You have to use stamina to climb around, which is a significant difference from ASE Odyssey, where having played so much Valhalla, you can just climb on everything. I really prefer when it's limited, when you can't just swim anywhere or climb anywhere, and the world itself becomes so much more of a puzzle and so much more interesting

because you have to be like, well, I really want to get to the top of that mountain, but I'm not supposed to do it yet. There are, you know, early areas where you're not supposed to go until it's later in the game. You're supposed to come back. But I'm like, no, I'm getting to the top of that mountain. So I'm, like, chugging stamina potions and doing all this weird stuff to get around. And I love that. Like, I just find that so engaging.

And this game has that. So I'm finding that all really cool. It's also a very charming game. This game, the lead writer is Jeffrey Yohalam, who wrote Child of Light and was the lead writer on Far Cry 3. He's a very playful writer. It's kind of like dorky in a way that I like. I don't mean that as about it. It's kind of cornball.

But it's really cute. It's primarily narrated. It's like an inconsiderable narrator between Prometheus and Zeus. So Zeus is like interrogating Prometheus. Prometheus is actually voiced by the same actor. I'm 90% sure this is just my ears, but who played Adam Jensen in the DSX games. And he's great. And so it's like I just recognize that guy's voice.

He was in, I think, an episode of The Expans, that TV show. And I was like, it's Adam Jensen. Like every time I hear him. Bing. Kirk from the future here as I edit this episode, just to give credit. Where it is due, the actor's name is Elias Tefexas. He is a Greek-Canadian actor, which makes it pretty cool that he got to play Prometheus in this game about the Greek pantheon.

He's a great actor with a great gruff voice, and I do really like his work. He turns up all over the place, and I always seem to recognize him more than most voice actors. Okay, back to past Kirk. Take it away, man. Bing! But anyways, so it's like a dot. dialogue that they're having while you're playing. They're arguing and then, you know, sometimes Zeus will just be like, oh my God, come on. There's actually a really funny bit. Prometheus is telling

the story of Phoenix. Right. And Zeus is providing color commentary. And your character, Phoenix is just kind of this random goon who then becomes a great hero at the time of need to, like, rescue all the gods. So then, of course, you go and I just did a whole quest line with Aphrodite and like talk to Aphrodite and you have to go interact with all the gods. But it's funny. There's a thing at the very beginning, actually, where you play the tutorial, like, island area. And then you get off of that and the title card comes up. And it was the thing we were talking about the other week in Valhalla, where it comes up after five hours.

But then when that happens, Zeus is like, are you serious? This is only the beginning of the story. Like any comments on it when it's happening. So it's that kind of a script. Like it's very joky. The cutscenes have a kind of animated movie. I saw someone describe it as like DreamWorks Energy, which feels a little uncharitable because it's a little silly like that.

But generally I'm actually finding it really winning. There are some really nice scenes where just characters are telling Phoenix a story, these cool montages that are just edited and told that this really deaf touch. And I'm finding it just really charming. And it lacks Breath of the Wild's mystery. It's not a game where what drew me in about Breath of the Wild wasn't just the great puzzles and everything. It's the fact that you never know what's going to happen in that game. And it's so mysterious. And it's just, I remember going to the top of that snowy mountain where that dragon is and just being like, what is happening?

I don't understand any of this. so cool. This is the coolest I've ever seen. Yeah. There's this feeling of like foreboding mystery because the world doesn't explain itself to you. This is much more packaged. I don't know whether it's because it's a Ubisoft game, but you could describe it that way as feeling more

like a Ubisoft game. It's just much more like here's where you go to do this. Here's where you go to do that. Here's how you upgrade this. Here's what that does. There isn't that sort of sense of mystery that I love quite a bit. But that's okay that it doesn't have that because it has all the other things that I find really appealing. And I really am enjoying it. Like I plan to keep playing it. It's actually of all the fall games I've played since Hades. It's the one that's, I've just been like, that's fun. I'll do that for an

hour, like when I'm thinking about playing video games at night. So maybe I'm thinking the answer is, I just need games that are like about the Greek Pantheon. Like, that's actually the thing. It is kind of a strange coincidence that there are these two games that are about the Greek Pantheon in the same year. It is. Yeah. Well, fun fact about this game, one of the reasons that it's like take so much from Odyssey is because it was greenlit as a fiscal quarter filler and it was meant to come out. I don't know if you guys remember. It was originally announced for the beginning of this year, even though that would have been like just a year of development time from ASE Odyssey to that because it was like Eves Guillaume saying, hey, we need to fit something here. Let's get this team on

something fast. But they got more time fortunately and I think it's a better game as a result of that. Yeah, it shows just because there are so many systems, the combat system, the stealth system, just a lot of the animations are taken from Odyssey, just seem to be the same thing. I'd love to see more of that where it doesn't have to be another Assassin's Creed game. They can just make a game that's like this, that's Assassin's Creed-ish,

but also very different in experience when you're playing and it feels more like a Nintendo game. That's so cool. I would love more games like this. A lot of it, it's not a small game by any stretch, but it's not the absurd scope of Valhalla. And that is sort of nice. It feels like I can finish this.

I've seen it's like about 30 hours long, which is really long. that's plenty. Love a 30-hour game. Does not need to be 80 to 100 hours. I will say that I do not recommend playing this on Switch handheld, which is what I've been doing. The controls, like I mentioned before, are not great.

And also the game just looks very smudgy and not good. I think I would be enjoying it a lot more if I was playing it on PC also. It's beautiful on PC. It's really beautiful looking. And having played it a bit on Switch, I was like, oh, this looks like a switch port of a game that was meant to be played in HD with, like, you know, the full thing. All right.

Well, another one for the books. it again. We did it. We did it. We pulled it off. We recorded ourselves talking for an hour. We launched this episode. We did. We did. We did. It was a podcast launch. Cut that out. No, I'm keeping it in. People got to see. Pretend I never said that. I got to hear it. People get the good jokes and the less good jokes. They get them all. Yes. Well, just like a launch lineup, you get the good games. That's a really, really good point. You never know what part of the legacy will endure. That joke was the red steel of this. Right, exactly. You get the Zelda's and you get the Zelda's, and you get the last. You get the. It's, at the Red Steels. You do. All right, I'll see the both of you next week. Goodbye. Bye.

Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes.

Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun podcast network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at Maximumfund.org. slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple clickpods, send email the triple click at maximumfun.org and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned, audience supported.