Triple Click - What's The Deal With: Grand Theft Auto V

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Grand Theft Auto V is one of the most lucrative games of all time. Why??? Kirk, Jason, and Maddy aren't really sure, but at least they can tell you all about Rockstar's hit action shooting game. The gang talks about 2013 nihilism, the innovations that GTA V brought to the open-world party, and how crime doesn't pay... except when it does.One More Thing: Kirk: Turning RedMaddy: Horizon Forbidden WestJason: Triangle StrategyLinks:Ukraine support:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/03/02/opinion/ukraine-charity-donation-guide.htmlCass Marshall’s Polygon article about the GTA Online Motorcycle HOA: https://www.polygon.com/22787651/gta-online-roleplay-new-day-black-lotus-motorcycle-club-mirror-park-hoaSupport Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy a Triple Click t-shirt: https://topatoco.com/collections/maximum-fun/products/maxf-tc-tclogo-shJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

Sure, it's cool to play a video game with one main character. But what if you had, not one? Not two, but three main characters. Welcome to Triple Click, where we bring the games to you. This week we're talking about the tri-protagonisted Grand Theft Auto 5, a video game that came out nine years ago, yet still remained surprisingly relevant today. There's a ton to talk about with this one, so let's get into it. I'm Kirk Hamilton.

I'm Maddie Myers. I'm Jason Shire. Hello. Hello. It's us again. So nice to see, both. Both of you, here we are. Here we are.

Here we are. Kirk coming live from San Francisco. I am. I was told to say that I am in my favorite niece's house recording this. And you may or may not have heard them in the intro. We'll see if I record if I have them add something extra for the intro. Oh, that's fun. I think maybe people probably did just hear them.

So that was the unidentified voice. You heard that wasn't Maddie going through a vocal filter. That was my wonderful two nieces. I love the idea of having children who wouldn't have been allowed to play GTA 5, the game that is our topic of the day, introducing it and hopefully not describing it in very specific terms. GTA 5 is quite quite the vulgar game having a bunch of the beginning. So that's what we're going to be talking about on this,

our video game podcast that we make with support from listeners like you. Do you like Triple Click? Are you a fan of listeners supported? media, do you not like the fact that the same five big tech companies seem to be buying everything well? If you said yes to any or all of those questions, maybe you could become a maximum fund member. You could support independent creator-controlled media, and you could support triple-click as well, because that's how we support our show.

So if you want to do that, you can go to maximum fun.org slash join. You get the good feeling of supporting a bunch of cool shows on the maximum fun network, can you also get access to a bunch of bonus episodes from us and from other shows. But we make a lot of them. We make one every month. We have almost two years worth at this point. This month we're going to be talking about Die Hard, a movie that Maddie and I both like and that Jason has never seen,

and that has quite a bit of video game lessons to be learned from it. Yes, that's true. We aren't making him listen to us talk about it, having never seen it. Jason has now seen it at last. But there are all kinds of things on all kinds of topics. So anyways, support our show, maximum fun. dot org slash join. Yes. All right. Jason, you have

something you wanted to share, a listener email. Yeah, so we got a letter from a listener this week that I wanted to share before we jump into the show. So let me just start by reading this. This is from Nikita. Nikita says, hi, Jason Mani Kirk, hope you're all doing well. Let me start by saying I've been your active listener for several years now. I started

listening back when you were Kataku split screen. Rarely missed an episode ever since. When you moved to MaxFund and continued your amazing job, a triple click. I immediately subscribed and became a MaxFund member to support your show. For all these years, listening to the three of you talking about games was like a warm blanket. It felt almost like being in a room full of close friends. Your discussions were always summing to me, whether it be clever insights, quirky observations, or just funny banter.

Several times, I recommend a triple click to my friends and on social media as a quality podcast about video games. I'm also fond of the fact that you share the same progressive liberal views as I do. Hearing you talk about the women in LGBTQ representation in games and in mass culture in general, always stuck a chord with me. That being said, I want to ask you three of favor. I believe power to amplify the voices of those in need of being heard. And for me and a lot of people, this need is dire. I live in Ukraine and I'm a refugee that fled from my country's capital, Kiev, because of the unprovoked invasion started by Russia in February of this year. Our armed forces are holding off the aggressor, but the situation gets worse every day.

The humanitarian catastrophe artificially created by the Russian forces in Ukraine will soon exceed the one created by World War II. Cities are being leveled into the ground. Millions of people are left without access to water, heat, and the roof over their heads. hospitals, maternity wards, and civilian infrastructure are being shelled and civilians are being shot with no mercy. War crimes are committed by the occupying force relentlessly. Now, I know Ukraine is far away from the USA, and we are fighting not only for ourselves and independence, but also for all of Europe and democratic values. We're fighting for survival every day and every bit of help is most welcome, so I thought might kindly ask you for some help. And then he goes on to ask to say that basically their main goal is to persuade the USA and other Western countries to create a, to create a,

no fly zone, which I don't think triple click has the power to do. But we do have the power to offer a link that we can share to help in case people out there haven't yet contributed, haven't yet donated, and would like to. We're going to share that link in the show notes. So go check that out. Yeah, I donated a bunch of money to Ukrainian refugees a couple of weeks ago and would encourage anyone who has the means to do so as well. Yeah, same. Yeah, definitely. Thanks, Thanks, Nikita, for writing in and for listening to our silly show. It's nice to know that you have that. Yeah, everyone out there.

Shout out there who's our listeners in Ukraine, of which we have a few. Can't even imagine. Love and well wishes to all of you out there. All right. Well, let's start with the show, shall we? Today, we're doing a What's the Deal with Grand Thefts Auto 5, which is a fascinating game that originally came out nine years ago in 2013. Yeah, nine years ago. Sorry, everybody, nine. But this week, that's not true. That can't be right. This week it came to PS5 and Xbox Series X,

which is why we wanted to talk about it. GTA 5, I had no idea that this was going to happen when it first came out all those nine years ago. It has sold more than 160 million copies and earned more than $6 billion in revenue. 160 million. That's just a made-up number, Jason. You know what's crazy about that number? You could sell, if you were any AAA game, you could sell one-tenth of that and you'd be a phenomenal success, making it the biggest entertainment property of all time. So we thought we'd say, hey, what's the deal with this game? What's up with it? What's the deal with GTA 6?

You guys heard of this? Yeah, first of all, before we dive into it, I'm curious to hear everybody's kind of like impressions of GTA are like our experience. is with GTA over the years. So, Kirk, why don't you start off? Because you were at Kotaku with me when GTA came out. What's your experience with GTA over the years? Yeah, I remember. I think it was the, yeah, it was the first big rock star launch that I covered at Kotaku, which it's always a very dramatic thing covering a rock star game at launch. I remember there was, it was very hard to get review copies of this game. I believe there were two copies that they sent us. Stephen Totilla was reviewing it. And maybe we had one for our video.

team or something. So everyone was like in our Slack kind of agitating it, Stephen being like, okay, so what's it like? We know what's going on. And I do remember playing it on the Xbox 360, which was now two game consoles ago, which is pretty wild. Yeah, two consoles ago. Yeah, wow. Yeah, I mean, you know, it was a whole phenomenon. It was the kind of thing where I felt the same way about it as I felt about GTA4 in a lot of respects, obviously a very different game in a lot of ways, but I liked the emergent part of it a little bit more than the story, even though I was impressed by some of the narrative ambitions the game has, just because you wouldn't think necessarily that this kind of a game would be going for kind of bigger stuff,

and they occasionally did. And it was just such a technological marvel that I think it really still is a technological marvel in a lot of ways. I don't know that there are many games that have better sound design specifically than GTA5. for better like interactive worlds like with pedestrians that react to you. There's not a lot of reactivity. Yeah, yeah. The depth, the depth of the illusion remains remarkable all these years later. So anyways, I've played it on 360.

I've played it when it came out on PS4 in first person at 30 frames per second. I then played it on PC in first person. It's higher than 60 frames per second. I have not played it on PS5. I'm sure it's the same game. And I didn't really play that much GTA online, Though I've played some and I know we will talk about that. But yeah, that's my impression of the game.

It's a game I've never loved in a like, I have this, I think it's so great and love it. But it's also a game that I've played a ton of and just am very, you know, aware of it as just this giant moment, this giant event, this ongoing thing, this huge game. And you finished it, right, the first time you play it. I did. I think I've only finished it once. It's so long. I got pretty far, I think, on PS4, but it's so friggin' long. Maddie, what about you? Have you played it through it all?

I've played it. I have never beaten GTA 5. Maybe this is the year I'll give a shot. Yeah, it's not. Why would you say it's not surprised? There's so many reasons. It's not surprising for me specifically to have not beaten it. Yeah, if you're going to be the Ruxter game, go with Reddick. It wears out its welcome in a few different ways.

Wouldn't be that one. This game is very caustic and alienating. and intense in a lot of other ways that are hard for me to separate from the game itself and from GTA as a franchise. So my history, I have said I've played other GTA games before this one, and that's true. I always had friends who own GTA. That was always my experience of GTA was, you know, lying on another person's couch and trading the controller and all of us coming up with the most horrifying things we could possibly do because that's what you do in GTA. You break the law. or at least that's what me and my high school friends did in GTA was break the law.

And that is also the association I had with GTA 5, although the things about it that excited me then, and still do, are the multiple character system, the narrative, as Kirk said. I thought it was a missed opportunity at the time that all three characters were male anti-heroes. And I still kind of think that. I feel like that was 2013 really was a time period of anti-heroes. We're talking Don Draper. we're talking Booker DeWitt, we're talking. Breaking Bad?

Breaking Bad, yeah. Walter Wright. I mean, all that. But even the fact that I can compare Franklin to a television character says something about the mainstay that GTA 5 is. And that's worth complimenting, I suppose. But it's also a game that despite being a cultural phenomenon is, I'm good with never beating it. I don't know. It's got a lot of things in it that I don't care for.

It's a world that hates itself. And every character in it hates the world. And it's something I've noticed every time I go back to it, I'm like, God, this is so exhausting. And it's just. And unpleasant to hang out in. Yeah, it's very unpleasant. It's interesting that an open world game that you're supposed to spend so much time in is a version of basically L.A., I guess, that is deeply unpleasant. It's like the seediest, most disgusting parts of.

the world, just the worst people. And also people who are just survivors of horrific abuses and like drug problems and just marginalized in every way. Like that's, that's the world you're hanging out in and having fun, question mark. Well, so it's very much, it's so funny, 2013 was such a different world than now. But it's very much a product of Jen Xers who have a nihilistic like viewpoint of the, like, It feels, it's very much like, so I played a couple hours this morning. I beat it in 2013 when I came out.

Hadn't really played since then. So revisited today, this week on PS5 for the first time in nine years. And it's really fascinating just how the nihilism of it all and how it just feels like you're, I don't know, watching South Park or like watching some other like satire that is just like, everything is bad. it's point of view, this game's point of view is very much like everything is bad and you're going around the world and like there's so much stuff that is just like trying to. So okay, so you'll be driving somewhere and you'll flip on the radio and there'll be some right wing Rush Limbaugh impersonator which like is it's supposed to be a parody but now in the days of post Trump and post parody just feels like it would be real. It would be something that would actually be said by Tucker Carlson. I mean even then I feel. I feel like. I feel like. like it was starting to get there. I mean, Fox News was a thing back then, you know, 2013. Year before Gamergate folks. Yeah, yeah, but it wasn't

yes, I mean, we were definitely seeing like the burgeoning stuff that we would see today. But also it just had that like carried over Gen X nihilism. And then so, okay, so you're driving somewhere, you'll hear that Rush Limbaugh parody on the radio. And then you'll see a garbage truck that says

like dumping on your lawn and like has some other silly slogan. And then you'll see some Facebook parody. on your phone that is like some silly thing or like you'll get a pop up that says like check out eye fruit which is like apple eye fruit I guess there's some homophobia in there too and it's just like trying to but who knows if there is or not I feel like part of that joke is like is it a homophobic slur is it right you want it to be it is but it's apple apple's a fruit

you know like that's the whole game to me there is some like blatant transphobia a little later in the game but it's very much like it's a game that is just like this leafily dancing like imp just throwing knives at everything it sees and it's so interesting. Yeah, if you attack everybody equally then like what are you really saying? Yeah, yeah, which is like, I mean, that's the type of thing that me as a teenager, I would have been like, hell yeah. Like that was, that was, I would have been all about that. And then I kind of grew up. And it's interesting. It feels very much like a game for people who didn't grow up or people who are just like have that, that kind of point of view that just today feels so antiquated.

And that's just like from the world and story perspective. There's more to get into with the gameplay. And some of that stuff feels revolutionary still. But as far as that point of view. Yeah. I mean, that point though about the world and the story and how exhausting it feels, which I totally feel too when I go back to it, is it does raise the interesting question of this is the most successful video game

slash entertainment property of all time. So like what is it, you know? Like what exactly is it? If not, I mean, it's partly that. stuff. It's partly the tone. I do think there are a lot of people who just think these games are funny and don't think about it too much, but there's more, right? It's more than just that. So what is it that makes it so big? The success is, here's something notable. When you load up the game on PS5, the first thing you see is not, like, the story mode. The first thing you see is Grand Theft Auto Online. You have to, like, tab over to go to the story mode. Like, GTA Online is what's in your face. That's what made this game sold $160 million copies. There are people out there who just play GTIA Aline every single night, and that's where. they go to hang out with their friends. So I think that's kind of, I think you have to almost decouple

the two and obviously a large chunk of those, I'm sure, have played the single player game as well, but I doubt it. I'd be very curious to see how many of those even finish it. Yeah, it's funny. You know, so having played, I did some heists in GTA online, which were pretty fun. I mean, there's a kind of a cluginess in general to GTA online because this game was launched as a single player game that was intended to have an online, you know, segment. But it was like at the dawn of the era of the service game and they really developed it over the years into something that became this massive fully, you know, essentially Grand Theft Auto MMO. It wasn't that at launch at all and it's sort of gradually grown into what it is. But I've played some of it

and that tone, that sort of kind of juvenile, cynical, cynical, everybody sucks, it's dumb, let's just pull everything up vibe, works a lot better for. an anarchic 16 player, 32 player, multiplayer game, we're all just running around a city blowing shit up, then for a story that is at least on some level trying to like thoughtfully explore fatherhood or whatever the hell, you know, the story is a sensibly doing. So it does seem to fit better the world, you know, because you're still seeing those jokes. You're still hearing the radio stations when you're playing GTA online. And there are missions and quest givers, their characters from the main game. It still has that same tone. It just kind of fits better with a

ridiculous, you know, a ridiculous online game. Yeah, I'm actually pretty familiar with GTA online, not from playing it, but because my coworker Cass Marshall covers it constantly and I edit their stories a lot. And Cass also outside work as a hobby that they disclose works like for free for one of these roleplay servers. And it's fascinating to hear their stories about how these servers work and how wildly different and sometimes super inclusive and awesome those servers can be compared to what one might associate with GTA 5 and all the things I just said. because there are people who make mods, obviously, and then also create entire communities that just happen to be built on top of the framework of GTA. But then there's also, like, comedic communities

that are sort of riffing on the idea of it. Like, cast it a story about a motorcycle gang that is in charge of an entire city, and they basically act like in HOA. Like, they make sure everybody's lawns look nice, but, like, also they're a terrifying motorcycle gang. And it's just this hysterical story where it's about, like, yes,

they are enforcing these rules about lawns, care with blood, but also the rules don't really matter and everyone is participating in this silly game together. And that, I think, is in the spirit of the best of GTA, which is the ridiculousness and like, it's a video game. It's like the torture and the violence is supposed to be just playing around for fun. It's not supposed to be gritty and realistic in the way that I think of this campaign as having been presented in 2013, where it was like a serious, ready campaign that tells a story of masculinity and drug deals gone horribly wrong. Or at least oscillates wildly between that and being like fully ridiculous, but does have

some seriousness too. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if this ever really tried to be serious. I mean, I just did the mission. I'm sure you guys remember this where you smoke, you take a single hit of a joint and then you see aliens and you have to gun them down for like five minutes. Yeah.

Well, aliens are canonically real. in the GTA franchise. And just playing through the game, I mean, like one of the first things you see after the kind of flashback, it opens the flashback of Michael faking his own death after a bank he's gone awry. And then it cuts to Lamar and Franklin having this just like explicit conversation. And that just continues for like the first 20 minutes of the game is just you going around with Lamar and Franklin who Lamar is one of the most ridiculous characters ever. And their banter is just obscene and explicit and comedic and I don't really think it's going for like a dark gritty like drama sort of style I suppose that's true like I think about the torture mission where Trevor

torture is the guy and that's actually kind of the exception that's more of the exception yeah that's more the exception the tone is actually fairly consistent now that I'm thinking about it it just is that kind of caustic nihilistic tone it's more of like wow let's laugh at everything which I think it's really interesting looking at today it's funny you know Maddie you're talking about the HOA run by a motorcycle gang. That makes me think this also relates to the single player. One of the most interesting things in these games, and specifically in this game, is because everything in the game is designed to, like, emergently make breaking the law fun and

engaging, the systems are basically there to be broken, that it's actually very interesting when people try not to break them. And this was true in GTA4 as well. GTA 4 is still probably my favorite grand theft auto game. That's a hot take I can back up when we do what. what's the deal with GTA 4 down the road. Yeah, which we obviously... Well, I mean, New York is the best city, so it makes sense.

And I think it has a more serious story, and especially the first, maybe 30% of that story is very good, but that is a topic for another show. But that game in particular really kind of... I've always felt encouraged to follow the traffic laws and stop at stop signs, because you can, and some of that is because the simulation is so believable that it's just possible to roll of traffic. It gets a little bit ridiculous, but most of the... you know, cars follow traffic laws and you can just kind of drive around. And in GTA 4, there's like,

you know, GPS in your car. Sometimes it'll tell you where to turn and you can just follow that. And it's kind of interesting that because the game makes it so enticing to break the law, because when you break the law, that's when the game springs into action, that's when the cops show up, that's when like stuff happens. But that when you don't, and you're like, actually, I'm just going to, I'm going to live my life. I'm going to go for a walk. If you've ever gone for a walk in first person in GTA 5. One time I was going to make a video of this and I didn't get all the way around, but I just wanted to walk around the whole island, which would have taken, I mean, hours. And it's a fascinating experience because you're just walking and hearing people talk and hearing

the birds chirping and the traffic going by and the radio coming out of a car, experiencing that sound design. Like, the world is so interesting that actually not engaging in those enticing systems is itself very enticing if you can kind of slow yourself down enough to do it. Yeah, I mean, I think that's more enticing than, the system, which is just cop show up and shoot you, and then you have to shoot at them. Like, there's something really interesting about that. Well, it's fun, though. I mean, it's certainly fun. Yeah. I don't know. I spent a bunch of time playing tennis as Michael against his wife today, and it was just like super rewarding. I just played a set. And they were like bantering. There's so much

in this world. That's one of the things when I mentioned before that a lot of this just still feels innovative and revolutionary. I mean, there's like unique dialogue that Michael and his wife have where they talk about how their marriage is falling apart, but at least they still have tennis, like, as they're playing tennis together. Or like something else I noticed, which just blew my mind. And I don't think I've seen this in any other game. That's not a rock star game, is that if you fail a mission, which I failed on this one mission, there's an early mission where you have to go and drive, you're Michael, you have to drive with Franklin and you have to, like, drive next to you a big truck with your yacht on it. Oh, that's a nightmare. That mission is a nightmare. I failed that's so many times. The mission sucks.

Yeah, because Franklin is trying to climb out of the car. And so if you, like, even graze another car. He'll die. He'll fall out and die. But anyway, so I failed on that mission a couple of times. And then I started to notice, wait a minute, the dialogue is changing because the game knows that I failed. And so it doesn't want me to have to repeat the same dialogue. And so it'll just be like a different version of the same kind of thing. And it's fascinating. I've never seen that before. That's wild. I think that was an innovation in this game. I remember that impressing a lot of people when they were reviewing it. And I mean, there are these little QOL things, like quality of life things like that, like the fact that there are checkpoints and missions, because...

Yeah, that's nice after... TTA4 had some checkpoints, but if, I mean, anyone who's playing those re-releases of Vice City or San Andreas can remember dying in a gunfight 30 minutes into a mission and going all the way back to like, before the drive to the gunfight, before the gunfight where you died, like, having to go so far back. So, yeah, they were sort of gradually adding these little things like that. And also being able to switch protagonists at any time is, And that still has never been done in a game like that's like you know.

Assassin's Creed Syndicate. My, uh, my hobby horse is for Assassin's Creed Syndicate. Sure. Another, the underrated Assassin's Creed game. That's true. But that's just two. That's just two characters, not three. Yeah, and it's not really quite the same.

But it is still like, I, I'm surprised I don't see it more because open world games so lend themselves to bigger cast. Well, it's just so much. I mean, I just don't know if anybody has the kind of resources at Rockstar. I mean, thousands of people are at Rockstar working on these games. I mean, something that, like, I remember this being a selling point with the game when they were, they were marketing it before it came out, but it still blows my mind today is that your characters will all, like, quote, quote, live their own lives when you're not playing as them. So you'll switch between them and they'll be somewhere else. Like, sometimes you'll switch to Trevor and he'll just be, like, passed out and, like, naked in an alley or so much. Which is amazing. It's just so, there's so much good stuff to this game that I almost hesitate to be like, like, like, oh, this is a nihilistic piece of trash. You should forget about it today because there is a lot to like about it.

And there's a lot of really fascinating. Yeah, that's true. I guess I did not say that. But I will say, I mean, Red Dead 2 is the better game. If you're going to play a rock star game to completion, Maddie, Red Dead 2 is the way to go. But that's also a much more modern game and it has really different things to say. I do feel like there is something interesting about the fact that there hasn't been another GTA game since 5. and that five is still, I mean, it's 10 years old almost.

So just that in and of itself, like, yeah, it's an old game socially and culturally. And I don't know. I mean, I also feel like even at the time, that was just what everyone I knew who didn't play video games thought all video games were, were just these sort of playgrounds where you were a criminal and you could do whatever you wanted. And that was terrifying and awesome. And that's part of how I still think, lot of people see GTA, unfortunately, or perhaps it's perfectly fine with Rockstar that people

see it this way. Or just accurately, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I, but I, it then means, though, that I'm like, I don't know what GTA looks like if it's not an artifact of 10 or more years ago, because to me, that's what the association with it always is. I really don't know what the version of it is now that isn't a Gen X, nihilistic, South Park humor. Everybody's equal. in the eyes of this particular humor styling, you know? Like, what is that even? Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, GTA 6 is another story. But to your point, by the way, this is, here's something interesting.

2004, GTA San Andreas, 2005, Liberty City Stories and the Warriors, 2006, bully, 2007, Manhattan 2, 2008, GTA4, 2009, GTA, Chinatown Wars, 2010, Red Dead Red Dead Redemption, 2011, L. L.A. Noir, 2012, Max Payne 3, 2013, GTA5. Uh, 2008, Red Dead 2, and now nothing. So it's really fascinating. Rockstar literally used to release a new game every single year. Granted, they were publishing some of those. Like L.A. Noir was made largely by a studio in Australia, Team Bandai, and not Rockstar

proper. But they had such a greater output until GTA5, which, I don't know what that means, but it says a lot. I mean, I think part of it and part of the reason, Maddie, to your point about not getting a new GTA in nine years, I think one of the reasons for that is that these games got so ambitious and so big. And so the graphical fidelity grew so much that I think they needed all hands on deck and Red Dead 2. Instead of just being like made in Rockstar San Diego, the way the first game was, Red Dead 2 was all thousands, like 2,000 people, 3,000 people all around the world in Rockstar's different studios worked on that game. So, yeah, the scope of these games has changed so drastically.

But, yeah, no, it's a good question. Like, what would GTA6 look like in a post-Trump world? Well, yeah, and that's kind of a question about the writing and the story, which is a valid question in particular, because anything that takes a long time to write is hard to write to the moment, and comedy in particular, and satire in particular, maybe even among types of comedy, is extremely tuned to the moment. So when you're making a game that takes, even if they didn't start development until a few years ago, a few years, it'll already feel out of date.

Like, if I'm hearing nasty woman and Trump jokes in a video game that I play in 2024, I'm just going to, oh, my God, this feels ancient. Though, on the flip side, such a big part of the appeal of these games is that technological magic, right? It's that the technology of these games allows for the opacity that allows us to fill in the blanks in that certain way. Are you going to bring up the eco tag? I'm going to bring it. I was working up to it. So if we go to the eco-tag system, the popular and widely adopted eco-tag system

of open-world development, and we look at these open worlds through that lens. I talked about this some on our episode about open-world games, but it is an emergent, opaque, and largely aesthetic world. Though I would say that GTA is closer to a gaming world because the driving and the ramping and the car chases are so interactive and fun

and such a being part of the experience, that it's kind of like kind of in the middle. It's not just you walk around the world. But yeah, they're emergent and that's part of the fun, and they're opaque. And it is that thing. We talked about this on that episode, but that feeling of like, why did that thing that just happened happen? You know, is this world, like, aware of me and calculating things in ways I don't understand?

Because it doesn't always tell you. And as a result, if we're looking out to GTA6, that means they always need to be like super pushing the envelope technologically, which was true of GTA5. that game still feels pretty wild like the simulation level of that world compared to just about any other open world game until Red Dead 2, which also is just, it's on a different level in a way that requires an absurd amount of work. And as we learned, and a crazy amount of crunch and like people to just throw their lives into this thing for years and years to make something so advanced, even though that's the labor required at this point with this level of technology we're working with to make an open world that has that magical. feeling. And that's a, I certainly feel much, much more ambivalent about that now than I would have nine years ago. Yeah. I'm curious about that ambivalence, but I do want to say that something that is so brilliant about, again, replaying the game just today is that when you're doing some of these chases,

um, sometimes some sort of sequence will happen, whether it's like a car cutting you off in just a certain way to make you both like both you and the person you're chasing like have to turn left suddenly, or like a train drives by at just the right time or like you feel like you're about to catch up with him and then he jumps off his bike or whatever or like all these things that kind of feel organic and you're never really sure. I mean, I'm sure if you're a game designer,

you can be like, oh, that's scripted, that's real, that's scripted, that's real. And I'm sure most of the time it's scripted, but it's so brilliantly crafted and that illusion is created to make you feel like all this stuff is organically happening because of the systems of the world, even though they might be scripted for this, in mission. They just feel, and I think that opacity is a big part of it. But what did you mean by

your ambivalence about that, Kirk? Well, it's this specific type of goal for an opaque, you know, enticing world. It's that it's something that you'll always be chasing because it's so tied to like computational power and just a sheer level of, you know, items moving around and like things that you've designed and like complexity of the world. And that's like a constantly shifting goalpost because you're really just being amazed that they're pushing the envelope technologically, which is something that'll just always be more and more and more. Where, as we've discussed, there are like other types of video game opacity that are tied to things that are a little more just, you can just achieve them with cleverness,

and you can just make a game like Outer Wilds or a game like Eldon Ring, where it takes a lot of work to make a game like Eldon Ring, but what I'm so impressed by, or so enticed by, rather, what pulls me along in that game, They're mysteries that people wrote and designed and created for me. It's not half driven by incredible technology that just took so much work and so long to make that eventually will feel out of date and will feel kind of old and won't, you know, won't be as impressive. It's so it's like a different kind of thing.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's, but I don't think that's the only thing that makes the opacity work here. Like, I think you could make a game with the same technology basis GTA5 today and it would still feel like, opaque in that way that you're looking for. It would still feel mysterious and delightful in some interesting ways. Right, right, right. I think a large part of it. Well, so, okay, so here's a theory. And I think that kind of the rock star mission structure, which has been very specific

to Rockstar over the years, even though, so a lot of open world games have taken from GTA over the years, especially GTA3, which kind of inspired many, many generations of games to come. But one of the things that people in recent years have not taken. is the mission setup of you start a mission and then you're only on that mission as opposed to the quest log setup of you can go around and you talk to people there's a quest giver you get a quest from them you can do it at your leisure and as you're exploring you're gather you're doing things on a checklist whether it's like killing dinosaurs or collecting arrows or whatever

that's happening like you're doing those things as you go and do other stuff as opposed to just focusing on one thing at a time and I think there's definitely like pros and cons to each approach. But I think part of that Rockstar Magic comes from that type of mission design where, like, the game knows that you are only doing this mission, and so it can create all sorts of things and throw all sorts of things at you because it knows where you'll be. Yeah, I think that those design ideas can be really cool and that there are a lot of really valuable lessons that I'm sure lots of people who make games have drawn from these games. My ambivalence is pretty specific to just the knowledge of the sheer amount of labor that it

requires to create this specific kind of enticing mystery that these games do that no other game is able to do because no other game is made with this level of just sheer effort over years and years. And that's the thing where I'm like, well, it's cool. I mean, it's certainly amazing, but I feel more ambivalent about it now that I know just what's required to create it. And I also know that you can do a lot of the smart things that they're doing and do things that other games do as well and make really magical amazing experiences too. Yeah. Can we talk about Saints Row? Sure.

I just, before we stop talking about GTA, I don't have a transition. I just wanted to say, I always like Saints Row better, and it is itself a parody of GTA. And I don't think it can exist without GTA. And it also is a game. Okay, so Saints Row, you create your own character, you can still be a criminal, you still wander the streets, You're still in an absurd world. But it's the game, the second one famously had the gender slider instead of the gender binary. It's something a lot of queer people talked about at the time.

And like since then, in our post-cyberpunk 277 world is still a conversation we have now. And that was pretty exciting then. And I still think it's cool now. It is satirical and goofy in a different way. It picks its targets. The third one has jokes about the president that feel prescient in weird ways pre-Trump. And that game's team felt like they took those jokes so far that they then would have to reboot the entire game, which they are doing somewhat controversially. And it's coming out this August.

And I feel like that is the answer to my own question of how do you make a GTA in 2022? And maybe the answer is you completely start over and make something really different and it may or may not work and you just keep trying to start over again. I don't know if that's happening at Rockstar or not. But having read about the Saints Row process, I know they went through a similar ordeal of, we tried to be more and more extreme. We tried to get funnier and goofier. And then eventually you go to the moon and, like, fight aliens and stuff. It's like all kinds of crazy shit happens.

And you can't really go further than being the master of all space time. Like, you can't become more extreme than that. So where do you go? Maybe you just make sort of like a borderlands game or something. And that is kind of sad. Right. Eventually you become a musical. So I played the first Saints Row game and I do, I've played that whole series.

I think I mostly missed Gat Out of Hell or whatever it was called, the one that was a musical. I did play a little bit of four where you're a superhero. That's more like crackdown. I think that trajectory is super interesting in that that series is in conversation with GTA in a way that's useful to talk about when talking about GTA. Because the first Saints Row game, not very funny. It was basically just, I had, I had an Xbox 360. and GTA 4 wasn't out yet.

And I wanted to play that style of game. And I was playing San Andreas on an original Xbox disc just because that was what I had. And so I wanted to play something made for this 360. So it just had slightly better graphics. But it was nowhere close to as interesting. It's a pretty dull game. And I think it's fascinating watching writers

and a creative team basically have to differentiate themselves from something like GTA. And then when GTA4 came out, they were like, oh, okay, they're going more grounded in a real game. well, we're going to go totally in the opposite direction. And then you can watch that series, as you said, climb toward being the ultimate master of space time

starring in a musical video game. Yeah. Yeah, many, I mean, to answer your question, I don't think GTA6 was ever going to be like, we're going to go even more extreme. Like, that's never been what Rockstar did with this series. And, like Kirk said, GTA4 was a little more grounded, and GTA5 was really the one that pushed.

I don't know, it might even be more cynical and satirical than GTA 3 in any of the original ones. Like, I think GTA 5 really pushed, pushed the boundaries the most out of anyone, any of them in the series. It definitely felt like kind of a reaction to fan reaction to GTA 4, which was seen as overly serious by people. They're like, more silliness, you know.

You can actually see that even in four if you play like the Ballad of Gate Tony, like the DLC for 4, especially that one, the second DLC became kind of more larger than life. You're driving a tank finally. You know, it's getting wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a little bit of insight on GTA 6, but nothing I can share right now,

but I do think that it's worth noting that... Such a tease. Well, I mean, I have to save some stuff for Bloomberg. No, no, that's fine. You have a job. My bosses still get mad at me. But I will say that like there's some stuff that has been publicized, one of which being that Dan Houser was the lead writer on GTA5

and many of Rockstar's other games is no longer at the company. Leslie Benzies, who is one of the top producers on GTA5, is no longer with the company. Laslo Jones, another key figure in the Rockstar Interstate, circle and a writer on on gta five no longer with the company so there are a lot of there's been a lot of change in the upper inner circle upper management of rockstar games which i have no doubt will change that which will impact the the future of their games and gta six like i think it'll feel different even just because of that alone dan hauser is no longer there that's a huge frigging

deal for this company like this was one of the hauser brothers of course founded rock star and had pretty key roles in every single game made up until now And yeah, the other thing is I think that there is a way, and this is not like, I'm not hinting at what GTA 6 will be or anything, but there are ways to make like really good satire in the post-Trump world. And the thing that I always think of is succession, which is like such a good like way to do biting comedy, absurd satirical comedy in the modern time. So in GTA6 will be the true criminals, venture capitalists. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

Billions. Billions, the video game. Right. No, but I do think, I mean, I think there are ways to do it. And then also, it doesn't have to be a satire. Like, it could just be like a crime story in Miami with, like, a fun, with some fun humor in addition to that and fun characters. And there's so many ways they could go with it that I'm not that word.

And I just don't think that it'll really be the same sort of nihilistic humor that is in GTA5 because it just doesn't feel like, like, it would just feel. tone deaf today that I just don't think they're going to do that. It's interesting. I mean, certainly knowing that there will just be a probably very different team of people writing it, it could be just about anything. And there have been so many open world games. I mean, I should say open world crime city games like in this style since 2013. Like Mafia 3 is an example of one tone you can kind of go for. And then of course, Red Dead 2, different game in some ways. And Red Dead Redemption itself was very different from GTA 4. But still, like, there are all kinds of

different things they could do. And then, Knowing Rockstar, if nothing else, I mean, it'll be a very interesting game when it comes out. It will be, yeah. I mean, that's no doubt. Not to mention the online portion. And like that, well, is it going to explode the way like GTA online too? If it's built for it, if like the infrastructure is there from the start, that would be a huge advantage over GTA5, since they had to kind of build the train while it was on the tracks. It's going to be fascinating.

I will say also replaying GTA5 made me want to go back and replay Red Dead 2, which is such a masterpiece of a game. game. God, that game is such a like triumphant accomplishment. It's fascinating and wild. And part of it is a personal preference thing just because I don't love driving in video games and I just don't enjoy it that much. And I enjoy driving in real life that. That's interesting. I do. That's true. That's true. Maybe that's why I don't like it in video games because I'm a pretty conservative driver and you're encouraged to be reckless when you drive in video games. Maybe that's part of it. But yeah, but Red Dead, I just like the atmosphere and tone. much, much better, and especially Red Dead, too, which I think just, like, really pushed the,

like, just raise the bar in a lot of ways. And so, uh, yeah, I want to go, when I go replay that. I'm not super interested in continuing to play much more of GTA 5. I think I've had my fill of this game, but, uh, but would definitely replay Red Dead 2 at some point in the near future. Nice. Um, okay, cool. Well, so that is what the deal is with Grand Theft Auto 5. Um, I'm not sure we can, none of us have really spent enough time with GTA online to, like really put our finger on the pulse of of why this game has sold 160 million copies. Yeah, the readcast Marshall's coverage of probably got in.

It's those motorcycle gangs. Yeah. It's all motorcycle gang. That's really all about it. And role playing experiences. That really is the answer, I think. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's, and I bet there are tons of people out there who only play GTA online.

And that's like, it's a game. Yeah. No, totally. I mean, hey, if it's all for you. I will say that like to only play a game, like that the controls are so clunky that um i don't know i feel like you're missing out on like other better video game experiences in some way but yeah i get i guess you do get used to it that's definitely one reason i don't really play it yeah i mean like i don't know uh all of us have spent

ample time with destiny over the years and that's a game that like at least when you're spending hundreds of hours of your life in that game it feels really good to so you know what destiny too does not have is motorcycle gang that is that is a great point more shark cards It should have more opportunities for role play. That would really help Destiny to be honest. I started saying that as a joke, but now I think I'm right. I mean, a lot of true statements go that route. For sure.

Just like GTA. Is it a joke? Is it real? Maddie, would you go back to Destiny if it had more role-playing experiences? I don't know. But I will say that the only reason why I got so into Destiny was because I was playing it while on Discord chatting with my friends, that was what kept me coming back over and over again. And if we were all also role playing as like Guardians who were in a skateboard club or something

at the same time, then I can't see why that wouldn't keep me coming back. That is certainly a key part of an online experience. And I wouldn't even be surprised. Yeah. And I wouldn't even be surprised if GTA6 did the wildly unpopular thing of just being an online only game, like a Fortnite-esque, like, role play forward, free to play.

And it's a mobile game. I'm going to throw that on the topic there. Can you imagine the internet? It'd be great. Rest assured, it is not that. I don't know. I just feel like it's a good idea, but I'm not in charge.

Okay, cool. All right, why don't we take a break, and then we will be back with one more thing. Hi, I'm Jesse Thorne, the founder of Maximum Fun, and I have a special announcement. I'm no longer embarrassed by my brother,

my brother and me. You know, for years, each new episode of this supposed advice show was a fresh insult, a depraved jumble of erection jokes, ghost humor, and frankly, this is for the best, very little actionable advice. But now as they enter their twilight years, I'm as surprised as anyone to admit that it's gotten kind of good. Justin, Travis, and Griffin's witticisms are more refined, like a humor column in a fancy magazine, and they hardly ever say Bazinga anymore. So, after you've completely finished listening to every single one of all of our other shows, why not join the McElroy Brothers every week for my brother, my brother, and me? Maximum Fun is a network by and for cool, popular people, but did you know it also has an

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to the greatest generation on maximum fund.org today. And we are back, Kirk Maddie. I just want to say I'm proud of you both, all of us, all three of us, that we did not once mention Eldon Ring in the first 45 minutes of this show. You just broke the Eldon Ring code. We were doing so well.

Bing. Kirk from the future here as I edit this episode, I just want to say for the record that I did mention Eldon Ring once. So, you know, we can just pretend that I didn't. Okay, back to the show. Bing. Well, the reason I bring it up is,

well, I'll get to the. that when I get to my one more thing. Kirk, why don't you go first? What's your one more thing? Okay. I'm actually, I was going to mention Eldon Ring and my one more thing too. Oh, okay. There you go. So is I. No. Because I'm traveling and I can't play Alden Ring. So I'm traveling and I don't have a steam deck unlike Jason Schreier, so I can't play Alden Ring, which is maybe for the best because it's been nice taking a break from that game and just watching conversation and getting

sort of excited to play it again when I get home. My one more thing is the new Pixar movie turning red, which I just watched and really loved. It made me realize that I haven't loved the last few Pixar movies. What's the one called Onward, the sort of fantasy movie? And then Seoul was another one? Soul, I've become much more mixed on over time. It was an interesting one. I liked it. It had like the right pieces in some places, but it just sort of felt like, I mean, it was two movies mashed into one. It should have just been one movie. Just a movie about a jazz piano player, please. That's what I want.

And also, Luca, I started that one and was like, this seems nice. And I've heard it's a nice movie, but it's just sort of a different kind of vibe. And then, yeah, Onward really felt just kind of almost like a DreamWorks movie to me, which I do kind of mean as a diss. It just was like this just feels like a, or like an imitation of a Pixar movie a little. So I was just realizing, oh, like, it used to be when a new Pixar movie came out, I was like, there. I would watch it the minute I could and be so excited.

And that's faded for me a little bit. And this movie, I saw the good reviews of it, and I went and watched it. And it's really, really good. It is the story of, it's basically Teen Wolf. So if you've seen Teen Wolf, and it is the story of a Chinese Canadian immigrant. She lives in Toronto, I guess second generation. And it's very much a sort of immigrant, children of immigrants dealing with their parents, kind of a story familiar if you've seen a few different, you know, popular movies

of the last few years. And just a really kind of specific and lovely story about, you know, finding yourself and becoming who you want to be and also a kind of great metaphor for puberty and even for having your first period, which is explicitly mentioned in the movie in a way that I'd never really heard in a movie like this that I thought was really cool to. And yeah, I don't have a ton of deep thoughts about it, but I do think having grown up in an age when Teen Wolf came out and now seeing a new movie that is also about it, teenager discovering a family curse that turns them into a wonderful animal that then leads to them. Red panda, I think. Yes, in this case, the best red panda. So cute. And just so cute. And it's just a very

funny movie with its own vibe. It reminds me a bit of Penn 15. It's set in the year 2002. So it's very much that's sort of just after I got out of high school. There's Tomago cheese. There's a very, very funny boy band. The music is all by Billy Elish and her brother Phineas, which is pretty cool. The score is by Ludwig Juranson. It's got a lot of like quality quality talent in there. And it was directed by Domi Shee, who I believe is the first woman to direct solo direct a Pixar movie, which is very cool as well. It's just a really good movie, liked Turning Red. It's just on Disney Plus. You can just watch it. It's one of those ones they just put right now. I'm really looking forward to this one. It's good. It's a good one. I really liked it. Maddie, what's your one more thing?

Okay. So I've been taking a break from Eldon Ring also completely voluntarily. In solidarity with me. I appreciate it. Thank you, Maddie. If Kirk can't play, if Kirk can't play, I'll never play. Yeah, it was very political. So I'm playing Horizon Forbidden West. And I think I want to talk about the Las Vegas section of this game because it's amazing. I'm pretty up and down on this game overall, I would say. I'm not as up as Kirk is, but I'll save all the spoilery reasons why for the beans cast. And I will instead talk about my favorite part of the game, which I didn't reach until like 30 hours in. And I was like, I wish I'd gotten here sooner because I love every single one of these characters. And I just want the game to be about them. And I love everything I've done for them. And I don't want to leave. And it's so good.

What an ending. What an ending to that little bit. So poignant. I loved them. So naturally, okay. They're also happy. Oh, man. Seeing them all cheering and like getting so.

at the end, yeah. So some of my complaints about Horizon Forbidden West have been, I haven't met very many characters who seem like real people. And these characters in the Las Vegas portion of the game seem so real to me and really act the way I feel like people would act, including like the goofy parts and also the more utilitarian parts. So they're a theater troupe, a traveling theater troupe. And one of them, none of them are engineers, but as humans are want to do, they're curious

enough to want to try to experiment and like push the envelope, which is something that I wish I saw more characters doing in this game besides Aloy and a couple other exceptions. I just feel like this is something many people naturally do. Like you work harder in the short term so you can be lazy in the long term, if you will, in order to like come up with a cool tool that will help you out. And some characters do this, but this is this storyline is like the epitome of that, where there's one character who's just trying to collect these cool devices that create projections, visual projections,

and he's obsessed with them, and despite not being an engineer per se, he sort of like becomes one in order to invent diving mask. And so he has all these wacky ideas about how to make one, and his two cohorts, one of whom is like the financier of the theater troupe and one of whom is like sort of this old guard sort of Shakespearean actor type who just narrates everything they do hilariously.

This is incredible baritone. I really enjoy. that. It could have been really corny and annoying, but I laughed out loud at pretty much everything he said and was super into it. Good writing. Good writing helps. It was great. Um, so when Aloy comes across them, she and the engineer guy hit it off immediately because Aloy is an engineer as well, or like she has an engineering brain and they create this diving mask together, which of course, you get to keep for the rest of the game. And now I don't have to worry about breathing underwater anymore because I have this sick diving mask. And I got to like do this really awesome

underwater level. Can't believe I enjoyed an underwater level in a video game, but I really did. And it had stealth sections that I didn't think were that hard and, like, were largely just about exploration and having a cool time, fun audio logs, just 10 out of 10. If you're going to do an underwater level, have stealth sections or you have to avoid giant fish. And that's, that's one way to do it. That was cool. See, I mean, the enemy design there is pretty cool. And then, of course, you get to fight the enemies eventually. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a big boss at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really liked the big boss at the end. I was like, that was a fun boss fight. I don't know. I just really liked it. And it was very refreshing. Did you remember to slow down time this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I've been slowing down time a lot. I love to slow down time in Horizon Forbidden West. And yeah, I had a really good time with that whole section of the game. And if that were the entire game, I would have been like game of the year. That was probably my favorite part of the whole game. And I was played that.

as I was watching Station 11 and they're both about that. Oh, they're so, yeah, yeah. Just the idea that it was the first time in this very weird world, which we talked about in the episode, where it's all these like strange single biome cultures and everyone is pretty much just like hunting robots or fighting each other to find people who are like, no, man, we want to entertain people, we want to tell stories, we want to make art,

which is, of course, the whole point of Station 11. It's like, yeah, that's what makes us people. We would probably spend more time doing that stuff than all this fighting. It's just that video games are generally about fighting and not about like putting on plays. And so it makes sense that they build worlds where everybody wants to fight and not put on plays. But I just love meeting these people who speak so with such inspiration about the beauty of storytelling and bringing people together and just getting to experience that was really wonderful. Fun fact, Sweenoden 3, which we are not playing, but the sequel to Svokkon and 2,

Seekone and 3 lets you put on plays like you have a theater troupe that you have in your castle. Let's just stick to Succodon 2 if you can. That sounds like something that a Sweet Coden game would do, but would I like it? Who can say? I don't know. Some of the plays are about events that happened in Sweet Coden 2 and Codon 1. Anyway, my one more thing is a game. So I also am no longer playing Eldon Ramee.

That's because I finished it. You're the Eldon Lord. I am the Eldon Lord. I mean, you are the Eldon Ring. Yeah, you beat it. After saying last week that you were getting tired of it, you have beaten the Elton Ring. Don't talk about this. I'm sorry I brought it up.

No, well, I was just going to say, I was just going to say, I'm not going to harp on this, but I was just going to say the last week, because of our buddy Mike, we were a little concerned about a difficulty spike, but I will say I did not run into any difficulty spike, and I did all the optional stuff and optional bosses. I mean, you are the true old and Lord also. It's true. I also found a build that pretty much broke the game. But anyway, my one more thing is another game I've been playing, which is a game called

Triangle Strategy, which is kind of an under-the-radar game, came out for the switch a couple weeks ago. I have this installed. It is a strategy RPG. It's kind of in the main of Final Fantasy Tactics or more really like Tactics Oger, which is a similar game but has some enough differences. Most notably, the biggest difference between this and Tactics Oger and Final Fantasy Tactics is that

there's no like waiting for casting spells and tactics. You have to, you cast the spell and you have to like right. You prepped for one turn. And this, there's no waiting and just do things. But anyway, this game rules. I really, really like it. Oh, okay. It's better than I expected it to be because I was really underwhelmed by Octopath Traveler,

which is the last of the, the last game in this kind of like 2D-HD style that Square and Nintendo have been putting out. So one of the interesting things about this game is that there's a ton of talking and a ton of political machinations. And what I didn't realize is that a lot of the game is actually based around branching narratives. And so throughout the course of the game, pretty much every chapter, every other chapter of it's like based in divided into like i don't know 20 chapters or something like that um you have to make a choice

and the choice can be something basic like hey are we going to go to this town or are we going to go to this town or it can be something that's like heart wrenching and you have no idea what to do like are we going to sacrifice the life of this one person for the greater good to prevent the deaths of all these other people that sort of thing right so are you on a trolley when you make that decision you are on a trolley and then you're pulling a lever yeah to uh to uh to like make these as these decisions unfold, you can't just make the decision yourself. You have to convince your entire team of advisors to go one way or another. And you do that through these like branching conversations with each person where you have to like really convince them to see what you're thinking. And sometimes it's hard.

Like I've actually made a decision that I didn't want to make because I couldn't convince enough people to like see it my way. And then you kind of like watch the story unfold as a result of those decisions. From what I gather, there are multiple endings and you have to like do in New Game Plus if you want to go back and try to find the path to the correct ending. And it's actually, there's a lot more talking than there are battle scenes. There's only like one battle per chapter. So it's more of like, it's almost like it's like a visual novel hybrid strategy RPG more so than just like a traditional strategy RPG.

And I really like it. The story is really good. Oh, that's nice to hear. Yeah, it's really fascinating. The main character is kind of like a blea, wooden Mary Sue. like super boring, like goody two shoes type. But some of the other characters are really interesting. And the story as a whole is just like, it's really good like Game and Thrones

Z, like political machination stuff that I just really enjoy. Maybe George R. Martin chipped in on this one. Yeah, he contributed. Yeah. That's the hot new thing to do in video game development. Yeah, he's been just doing anything he can to get out of Britain. Yeah. Like, please let me write your game. Did you see his blog post the other day?

It was like, here are the 4,000 projects I'm working on that are not wins. the winner. It was so funny. Did it end with like a giff of him middle fingering the camera? It's really cool. And then so I almost I wish there were more battles because the battle system is so good and like it's so fun and the strategy is really really good.

And if you're into like the the tactic soger model of grid based like gameplay where you like move characters around and a lot of people out there probably played fire emblem, this is a little bit different because you're on a 3D grid instead of like a big two dimensional grid. So it has a very different vibe.

but similar concept like turn-based strategy like location is important and yeah it's really good I'm just really really enjoying it I'm hoping to finish in the next couple of weeks maybe when I go to San Francisco next week I'll finish on the plane or something but yeah triangle strategy good game I'm looking forward to checking it out I'll talk about it on the show you should definitely check it out yeah cool that is it for this week's episode we will see you see you in Los Santos down the road San Andreas. Farewell, San Andreas. And yeah, see you both next week. All right. See you both next week.

Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network.

And if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us becoming a member at maximum fun.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple clickpod, send email the triple click at maximum fun.org and find a link to our discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximum fun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned, audience supported.