Triple Click - Why Do Video Games Leak?

Episode Date: May 12, 2022

It's time for another episode of BURNING QUESTIONS!!! Jason, Kirk, and Maddy open up the mailbag and take some listener questions on all sorts of things. Why do video games leak? What are some one-of-a-kind video games we'd like to see more of? And what's the deal with video game strategy guides?One More Thing: Kirk: Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe (Venom)Maddy: What’s Up, Doc? (1972)Jason: Disrupting the Game (Reggie Fils-Aime)Links:Jason interviews a strategy guide writer: https://kotaku.com/how-final-fantasy-ixs-strategy-guide-turned-out-so-horr-1834809621Jason interviews Reggie: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-05-06/ex-nintendo-president-fils-aim-talks-book-and-mother-3-video-gameBuy a patch! maximumfun.org/patchsaleSupport Triple Click: http://maximumfun.org/joinBuy a Triple Click t-shirt: https://topatoco.com/collections/maximum-fun/products/maxf-tc-tclogo-shJoin the Triple Click Discord: http://discord.gg/tripleclickpodTriple Click Ethics Policy: https://maximumfun.org/triple-click-ethics-policy/ Happy MaxFunDrive! Right now is the best time to start a membership to support your favorite shows. Learn more and join at https://maximumfun.org/jointripleclick 🚀  SUPPORT TRIPLE CLICK:Join Maximum Fun | Buy TC Merch💬 JOIN THE TRIPLE CLICK DISCORD🎮 Triple Click Ethics Policy📱 SOCIALS | @tripleclickpodInstagram | YouTube | TikTok | Twitch

My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names. And we're about making podcasts. Welcome to Triple Click where we bring the games to you. This week we are reaching into the mailbag and pulling out some of your greatest questions about all sorts of things from strategy guides to games in IPs that we wish existed. I'm Jason Dreyer. I'm Kirk Hamilton. And I'm Maddie Myers. Hello. It's all my friends. Welcome back to... the podcast that never ends. It just goes on and on, my friends. Guys, I'm feeling good today. It's my birthday.

I don't know if you guys knew this. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Jason Shryor. The day we're recording, I should say, not the day this will be live. And if you guys want to give me a real good birthday present, make it so tomorrow's Nintendo Indie Direct, they announce Hollow Night Silk Song. Hopefully by Thursday, Kirk will bing in to be like, oh my God, Nintendo announced Silk Song.

Well, they have to announce it and also make it a very very big. available on that day because that I will get. We will be one step closer toward playing Dead Space 2 for the show. That's true. Well, I also have the same prediction, so I don't know. But also, it'll be a great birthday present for me. That's true. I am 35, which feels both old and young at the same time. I guess it depends who you ask. Yes, it sounds pretty young to me. It's, you can rent a car plus 10 more years. Like, you can rent a car and you can really think about it. This is the year you can run for president. Oh, thank goodness.

You've been counting down to that, I know. Yeah. We've all been waiting. I don't think, I think that's the last, like, legal milestone. I think there is, in Jewish tradition, there's like a milestone. You can't study Kabbalah, which is like ancient mysticism, mysticism until you turn 40, I think. But other than that, I think 35, once you're past 35, it's like, yep, now you can do everything.

It's all down there. Or it's all uphill. Right. At some point, you, like, start qualifying for senior benefits and stuff. So there's that to look forward. Oh, right. Yeah, you get discount. at a certain point.

A different conversation. Speaking of senior benefits, if you want to help us make this show so we don't have to take out Social Security, you can become a maximum fun member. Even if you mix our big fundraising drive, the Max Fun Drive, you can still become a member today

and get access to a whole lot of cool stuff. So if you become a member of our show, we are, by the way, we are not ad-supported. We are entirely listeners supported from all you find folks, and we are eternally grateful to those of you who help us make this show. If you go to maximum fun.org

slash join you become a member put as much or as little as you'd like enter the show in exchange you will get a monthly bonus episode from us including last month's episode which was what was that horizon that we did yes yeah yeah beans cast where we spoiled horizon forbidden west and this month which is coming up soon which is a beans cast on elden ring so if you're if you're ready to hear us talk more about elden ring this month you will get your chance that'll be up late in may So become a member today, maximum fund.org slash join. All right. Kirk, Maddie, it is time that we open up the mailbag and answer some listener questions.

It is time, of course, for burning questions. A name of which, by the way, the burning questions kind of use of that brand is 10 years old. Did you guys, did you guys know that? Kirk and I first came up with it at a katako 10 years ago. Are you the first person to come up with the phrase burning questions? I assume you are because we haven't been contacted. and told to stop using it. So I think you're the first person to ever come up with that phrase.

Yeah, we own the copyright. Yeah, we patented it. We own the patent. Well, the patent is a picture of a bag full of letters that's on fire. It's on fire. Yeah, it's pretty dangerous, honestly. So let's get out of the chelby. These are questions from all of you find listeners out there.

And just a reminder, you can reach us with your own questions at triple click at maximum fun. dot org send us some good ones we like interesting questions and we got some good some good ones this week too i'm making some really old by the way if you don't hear your question like in the next mailbag after you send it in do not worry it all gets stored in a big document somewhere and sometimes i pull out some really old ones like this next one is actually a pretty old one mattie why don't you kick us off read us this first question so this is from caleb who writes i have questions regarding video game leaks i understand

this is a pretty broad topic, but it blows my mind how people are able to leak things like entire Nintendo directs and Pokemon presentations. Do companies actively seek out people to leak their information as a means of driving conversation, then blame others in a Tim Robinson and a hot dog suit saying, we're trying to find the guy who did this style? Are there rogue employees spilling the beans? Surely the big AAAs know loose lips sink ships and try to keep things under wraps slash know how to protect secretive information. I know Jason has reported on countless leaks, and I'm just curious how he's able to acquire that information. Obviously, there's some means slash identities that absolutely need to remain a mystery. Well, you see, my sources are one. Let me read my entire

email. Well, so, I mean, to answer Caleb's, one of Caleb's questions here, I have never heard or known about any like intentional leak and that seems like the type of thing that it's like fodder for forum conspiracy theories or it's like oh man can't believe you'veosoft plants it another fake leak quote unquote of the new assassins creed game to get attention but like no company wants that to happen or the the similar alternative which is company puts out huge trailer that has clearly taken a lot of time to put together to distract from some bad news about the company as far as I know that's not ever been the case and yet it is such a common thing for people to angrily tweet about. Sorry to all those people, but I don't think that's a thing.

But yeah, I mean, as far as I know, that's not to say that it doesn't happen or hasn't happened and sometimes I see some leaks or some consistently leaked information from certain companies that makes me think, oh man, I wonder if they are kind of like either kind of waving their hand to it or not caring that this is happening. But having personal, personally actually interacted with the companies involved after reporting on leaks. Trust me, they are not pleased. Ubisoft has not been pleased with various reporting I've done over the years. As far as like how people are able to leak things like entire Nintendo Directs and

Pokemon presentations, those are always interesting. It's rare for an entire director, an entire marketing presentation to get leaked. If it does, sometimes it's because someone has access to, like, back-end stuff that they shouldn't. Like they might have access to web materials, websites. They might have been able to like access to blog posts that they shouldn't have stuff like that. That's often how that stuff would come out because there aren't actually a lot of people out there who would like know everything that's going to be in a Nintendo direct. Even the people who work for Nintendo for the most part are not going to know that unless they need to know it. So that in my experience, or at least in my

kind of educated speculation is usually how that sort of thing happens, as opposed to an individual leaks, which might come from a whole bunch of different points on kind of the production, the production chain. Yeah. Why do you think people do it, though, Jason? You didn't answer that part. Well, it depends. There are a lot of different reasons that someone might leak.

In the case of, like, someone hacking or like getting into the web database, it could be just like, because they're curious. Bragging rights. Sure. Yeah. Bragging rates. Sometimes it'll be disgruntled employees wanting to piss off the companies that are mistreating them or something like that. Sometimes it'll be employees who are super stoked about their work and are like, I want people to see this, even if they don't care, even if they know that it's going to be revealed officially in a month or two anyway. I think that one really surprises people, the one you just said, because it's then if you were to report on it, people sometimes at the company will be like, oh, Jason. spoiled the surprise or oh now this this surprise has been taken away from our employees but it's

sometimes it's an employee themselves who's chosen to leak that information it's almost always an employee when it's stuff that i'm reporting on it's almost always people who are involved in the but but that said i mean it's it depends what kind of leaks we're talking about assuming i'm assuming that this this this question is more about product leaks than it is about like um Positive leaks, announcements that are fun and exciting as opposed to leaking a horrific workplace. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, for the most part.

And then there's stuff like more newsy stuff. The stuff that I'm more interested in is like stuff like, I don't know, an acquisition. And so that sort of thing can come from a number of different sources, including something that I always find hilarious is I'll talk to a lot of people and I'll ping them about something. and then it'll that like let's say I ask person A person A might take it to like a secret game developer forum or mailing list or something or of which there are a ton and then it turns out that I'm also talking to person B who's on the head forum and person B will be like oh I just heard about it here I'll be like hmm I wonder where that's where that information originated from but yeah but there are a lot of different reasons and then there's also the third kind of group of

people who might leak stuff, I think, really, they're more than three, but a third that comes to mind immediately is people who hate the opacity of the video game industry and just want things to be more transparent and want information to get out there, or just appreciate what a journalist does and want to help that journalist get scoops and stuff like that. So yeah, there could be all sorts of reasons. But I think there are some big differences between the type of work that a journalist might be doing versus, hey, I'm going to post this entire list of games in the Nintendo Direct on 4chan or on Reddit or whatever, which kind of has a different, which has a different purpose and serves a different purpose, has different goals and serves

a different purpose than the reported leak, I think. Kirk, you want to take the next question? Sure, this question comes from Kevin. Kevin writes, hey, triple click, what are some truly one-of-a-kind games that you would like to see more examples of? This question was inspired by me finally getting around to L.A. Noir after such a long stay in my backlog. The somewhat episodic case-based structure, plus the largely nonviolent and investigative gameplay is so sustainable and refreshing to me.

It makes me wish there were more games of this exact kind out there. I remember feeling the same way about Return of the Oberidin. So yeah, what are some one-of-a-kind games that you'd like to see more of? A return of the overdin was what occurred to me originally. Yeah. And he said it. Well, we say Outer Wilds all the time. There are some games that are sort of similar to Outer Wilds, but nothing that's quite like it in terms of.

of puzzle solving and expanding your brain to think about a space in a different way. I would also say MIST, even though I know it's influenced so many games, I don't feel like any of the games that it's influenced have really been quite like it, which is unusual because it was so popular. And I mean, sure, there are certainly walking simulators, but that isn't the only thing about MIST that was exciting to me. When I played it, it was mostly the storytelling and the characters and discovering why these two brothers were so angry and the situation with their father, et cetera, and all these mystical worlds is the backdrop to it all. And I mean, I guess there's, I mean, we could list other walking simulators, but I just don't feel like there's anything that quite feels the way that misted.

And that's why it's been remade like 6,000 times. Yeah, Lucas Pope makes games like this in general, right? I mean, Papers Please. the game you made before Return of the Oberiden is a game unlike any that I've ever played. It was such an accurate job simulation where you're really doing the job. You have this workplace that you have to organize and you can move things around on it. There's stuff in that game that feels unlike any other games. There are also a lot of VR games that are sort of like really weird concepts, you know, surprising things.

I mean, actually job simulator comes to mind, but because the method of interaction with the game is like, So novel, the game can just be unlike anything else. You know, rock band VR, for example, which is kind of a rock band game, but then when you're actually playing it just doesn't feel like anything else. And I would say, that is a one-of-a-kind experience that I don't really know. I mean, I don't know when that will ever be replicated or when there will be a reason to, and playing it feels really special. There are a lot of games like that feel like that.

You should start a company that makes, manufactures, plastic instruments, and ships them around the world. It just feels like good business these days. That's kind of one of my predictions. right? I think it is. I feel like that was. Well, and then harmonics got purchased by epic games to make Fortnite music. My answer is Dark Souls. I wish there were more games like Dark Souls.

No, yeah, Return of the Over's End was my answer. I don't know. I can't really think of anything else that is just like that striking and unique. Although Elinor is a good one, although the game was so flawed. I would have liked to see an L.A. Norr, too, that kind of improved. what was cool about that game and did away with what wasn't because that game is really fascinating. Yeah. Also, I know bully is a game that people talk about a lot with a similar vein. I've never played it, but I know enough about it to understand why. I mean, it's a social manipulation slash etiquette style game and anything in that realm, which L.A. Noir, you're figuring out who is and isn't

lying and collecting clues. Any of those social engineering style games are always really fascinating to me because they never quite feel right. But the challenge of trying to adapt that real-life scenario into a game is, I don't know, I respect it. I respect anybody who's trying to take it on because it can result in some interesting problems, but also some unforgettable games. You know, one that comes to mind is dokey-dokey literature club, because I feel like we're actually seeing more games like this.

My One More Thing is going to be a game that's like this. And Inscription is another example of this kind of, a game, a game that gradually breaks apart and reveals itself to you in layers that you couldn't possibly have expected. And I think doki-doki does a great job of that because it at least feels unique because it presents as such a familiar type of game, you know, the sort of anime, dating sim. And then it so completely subverts what you're expecting. I don't know if I've ever played a game that went that hard against what it presents as. So that game does strike me as, one of a kind, despite the fact that there are games that do the same thing, but each game

that does that kind of thing feels one of a kind of a rare thing. Yeah, the whole breaking the fourth wall isn't unique, but the way in which it happens sometimes can be made unique. Maddie, to your point, there's a game I played last year called NoShag, G-N-O-S, and so G-N-O-S-I-A. Oh yeah, right, I remember what you're talking about that. That was also a social, kind of a social engineering deduction game that was handled a really interesting way. got really repetitive, but basically it was like Among Us, except randomized and scripted with like all AI characters. So you had to convince each AI character like, oh, vote for this person. Oh, don't vote for this person.

And it could, it got it. It was interesting. It was an interesting game. Not my favorite, but it interesting. That in a single player game is interesting, right? Because Among Us works so well because it's, you know, you're in multiplayer so it works. That was also what was fun about Assassin's Creed multiplayer back when that was still a thing. Always unsung and underrated Assassin's Creed.

multiplayer because you were sneaking around in the city and you could pretend to be other people and blend in with the NPCs, a little bit like spy party. A lot of a kind of a game, despite the similarities. Also, people are definitely reprising that Assassin's Creed multiplayer energy in Eldon ring these days. So it's not like that tactic has been entirely lost. That's a good point. There's all of those, there's all those abilities or those tools you can use to blend in. Yeah, you can just steal another outfit and pretend to be a

dead body. It's pretty great. Anyway. All right. Let's do a couple more questions. So here is Nick. I'll read this one. Nick says, big fan of the show, Max's fan subscriber. Thank you, Nick. Like many older millennials who had a PS1 in the late 90s, original Final Fantasy 7 holds a special place in my heart. I like to replay it. And when I replay it, this is me paraphrasing. I just have my old Brady Game's official strategy guide. I love everything about this thing. The design, the maps, the playful, editorializing of the author. In the early days of the internet as we know it, these kind of guides are one of the best ways to spend more time with the characters outside of the game. You've all

spoken eloquently about the joys of these kinds of paperback guides in previous episodes, and all this has been wondering, what exactly is the deal with game guys? Who writes them, who is in charge of their accuracy and quality control? How exactly do they fit into the greater ecosystem of the video game industry? Can developers have them taken down or opt out of having a guide walkthrough made altogether. Has any of this changed since guides transition from books to being entirely online? Do you think we'll ever return to see a return to the physical strategy guides of old? Seriously, what's the deal? So yeah, there are kind of two elements to this. One is the old school guides and then another is kind of like the modern incarnation. And I want to say,

So I actually interviewed a guy named Doug Walsh a couple years ago for Kataku, who spent like 18 years writing video game guides for Brady Games and Prima. And he published this memoir. We can throw a link in the show notes called The Walkthrough. That was pretty interesting. And I can also, we'll also link to my article, my Q&A with him because I was actually asking him about this process. Like, hey, how did you figure this stuff out? Like, how in advance did you get builds? and he was saying that like things really change over time,

but like they would get games really far in advance. They would get early builds of games and they would work with the developers because a lot of times these were like official guides. So it wasn't like them doing it for Polygon like as professional journalists. It was them actually working with the developers and like getting all the secrets from them. So that is like a very different world than today's modern guide system,

which is like people writing on the fly if they're, lucky they'll get review codes to games. But yeah, Maddie, you have a lot of insight on like the today's guide writing process. Yeah, it, as Jason says, it's reporters who are writing it, although at least in Polygon's case, it is people who are guides writers. We have an entire team of people whose entire job is to write guides and to play games with an eye towards technical writing and clearly explaining how each piece of the game works and also pitching, which is an unsung skill in guides writing, I would say, which is playing a game and guessing which aspects of it people won't be able to figure out or they might not even

realize that they won't figure out or need, like certain items that they're going to end up looking for and then putting together. Figuring out what people are going to Google. Yeah, yeah. And then putting together like a long-term plan of what guides to write. All of these are styles of thinking that I don't possess, but I strongly respect because I use our guides and many other guides all the time. And whenever I'm reading a good guide, I notice it now because I've now edited enough guides that I can tell which ones are clearly written and which ones are like, wait, what do you mean by this sentence? Like, turn around and do what now?

That's a whole other piece of it. As for how they fit into the greater ecosystem, at least a polygon guides do. very well. I can't speak to other sites, but I'm guessing that for most sites that have a section that is guides, those sections are doing pretty well for the website and are considered, you know, a good source of traffic as long as you're pretty good at putting together your guides. But as Jason said, we have to rely on getting video game codes. For us, we prioritize the guides team above everyone else because that's just how it works. And it means that our guides writers also have to write reviews sometimes.

And can developers have them taken down? This is similar to the complaints we've had about embargoes in the past. They can request or have you agree to certain embargo terms about what you'll put in a walk-through day of or how far ahead of time you can put it out. And sometimes even certain sections of the game are embargoed to a later time because they expect people won't have gotten there yet. I mean, I think that's fine. I do hear the much better version of this with the Brady Games official strategy guide where that just sounds like a preferable way to do things. And I realize I'm saying that as a person who works at a website that employs guides writers. But if actual game developers worked with a

writer to put together a guide, I feel like that would make a heck of a lot more sense than us trying to figure it out on our own without their help if that makes any sense. Like it does It does seem as though something has gone a little wrong there, that that is now the situation we're in. Yeah, it is bizarre, right? And back in the day, that's what would happen because you have these beautiful illustrated prima guides and braided guides that are like official. Yeah. They're working with the publisher. And yeah, it is kind of bizarre that that just has disappeared.

Obviously, it's not bizarre that the print industry disappeared because we've seen that happen. And we all know exactly why that happened. But yeah, I mean, I guess for publishers, it's not. worth it because a game journalists are all doing it now and B, fans will all do it for free on game facts regardless. Oh yeah, absolutely. Although there is some change in this area, like the PS5 now has this option where if you're having trouble with the game, like the UI allows you to click to get help and it shows

you videos that help you out. And I've never used this, but I know Dina was using it when she was playing bug snacks and she was like, it's so great. And I'm like, you, you're putting my co-workers out of work every time you click that button. But, you know, I think it is interesting that Sony has started to implement something like that, where it's basically a tip system that's embedded within the UI of the PlayStation. Yeah, I mean, the nature of video game tips has changed even since I first started writing about games in 2011. I loved writing guides for Kotaku when the guides took the form of, what did we all?

always call it. Before you start, it was before you start post. No, they had an issue. But this is even before that buzzword had become a thing. We need more service posts because those do well. This is when we were still learning that service posts did well and then deciding to do more. And we would call it before you start. Before you start, tips for playing Assassin's Creed for Black Flag or Bloodborn. I remember everyone for Bloodborn that did well. And that was a very different process than what Polygon does now, certainly, or than what exists on the internet. And I really liked that process because I would have played a lot of bloodborne. And I think I actually had a pretty good sense of what people would struggle with.

And it was a catch-all article. It was just, here's a bunch of stuff that you want to know. And I remember my number one thing that I always tried to do was give people specific tips. Like, tell them what to do. Because I knew I was really channeling my own experience into the articles. And whenever I was stuck in a game, I would Google like, okay, you know, in a Souls game for example, like, what kind of a build do I do? And then there were just people being like, well, it doesn't really matter. Just follow your heart. You can respect. It's fine. And I was like,

no, I'm feeling a lot of anxiety. And I just want someone to tell me what to do. And so I'd always try to give people actual answers. And I remember, I had all of these opinions about, like, what made a good one of these posts or a bad one. And those opinions are kind of obsolete now because it's become so much more granular on the internet. When you look now, it's like there's a whole post for just how to beat one boss or like how to beat one level. Or just builds. And it's like here's every build you could possibly make. Or like magic builds. And there's a whole page just from magic builds. And so it gets so granular that you have to really be looking for something specific, which is useful when you're looking for something specific. But it's a different

skill set. Jason and my, our friend Mike Rugeot, wrote a bunch of Eldon Ring guides for Polygon. And it was really interesting talking to him as he worked on this process. I won't betray too much, though I don't think Mike would care. But it was, I mean, he played the game so many times and learned things so much because he was writing these unbelievable guys. I read some of them. And they're like, you know, everything that you're going to do. I've used some of them.

I'm not ashamed to say. Oh, yeah. They're great. I mean, everything you can find in Raya Lucari Academy, like the whole thing, every boss, every move set, every power up. And it's like, it's so exhaustive. And just a very different kind of writing. And a different kind of playing a game that can be very exhausting and that our guys.

Rides writers have described like a very specific kind of burnout that's different from the other forms of burnout that happen in the other pieces of what we do. Yeah, it's a really specific way of playing a game. I know it was pretty exhausting for him. But then it also has led to like, I mean, Polygon's examples are really good. I mean, the Polygon example, that's a great guide because Polygon has good guys. You pay people, like you have editors, you really run it through a thing. So much of the internet is just like these trash guides that. are either copied from somewhere or incomplete or just thrown up the minute the game comes out

and no one actually knows how this stuff works. Eldon Ring was this way for a long time. And like you'll click on it and sometimes there's nothing there. That happens to me, especially now that I'm almost the end of Eldon Ring where I'll click on guides and it's like a blank page where I can just tell it's like a placeholder has been put here that's like, uh, we'll do a guide on every item in Azula at some point, but sorry, it's not here yet. Those, like, really dense, stat-heavy Japanese games, like a monster hunter is always notorious

for this, too. You're trying to figure out, you know, how to upgrade a weapon. And there's just this thing that's like, we don't really know, but there'll be something here eventually. So it's just a different world from, like, when I was a kid. And I would totally read guides because I wasn't allowed to own that many video games. And I would read, like, Nintendo Power and other guidebooks that you could buy through Scholastic or whatever, just because it was almost like reading a, you know, a let's play

because I couldn't play the game. and things are very different now. Yeah, it was super fun. I did that all the time. I read them. I have a stack in the corner of my office of all the guys that I used to read just at dinner and stuff. Kirk, to your point, I think that, like, what was cool about the before you starts that we did a Kotaku is that it felt very much like you were going to a friend who had played the game and asking them for advice. And they were just telling you like, okay, here is what you should do.

And they were like talking to you like a human being would talk and just writing to you. Like, here's a big list of tips. They were fun. They were fun to write. But it felt like you emailed a friend and they like emailed you back like a long, helpful guide or something like that. Same with the strategy guides. We're reading it. Like oftentimes these guys would have their own personality, they would have their own voice.

They would really capture something about like telling your friend about the game. The granular guides, you kind of lose something along the way, either because A, they're bad and like feel like they're written by AI or B, in the case when they're not bad, they're so granular that they're just about this one specific thing. and it's not nearly as fun or as entertaining to read as before you start might be or as a standard walkthrough might be. Sure. I mean, the big walkthroughs that I've used in the last two years are the Final Fantasy Six walkthrough

that we talked about a lot last year and the Sweet Code 2 one that I'm using now. And those are such a different world because they're all text, they're those big text walkthroughs. They take forever to search through, but they're kind of, the grammar is pretty questionable. They're all over the place.

But there's also very clear fingerprints of this one human being who put an unfathomable amount of work into, like, creating this incredible chronicle of this very dense, kind of opaque old game. And I find that very charming. It's actually an enjoyable part of playing both of those games. Let's do a couple more questions. Maddie, give us Cullen's question. Okay.

So Cullen wrote, What kind of game would you want to play if you could match up any game genre with any classic IP franchise, be it from a movie, a TV show, book series, Broadway play, folklore, tale, etc. Here are a few examples I came up with to get the ball rolling. An Adventure Time Open World RPG, a Wizard of Oz Strand-type walking simulator, a West Side Story rhythm action game,

a Sesame Street collectible card battler. Battler surprises me there. So that's Semi Street. I don't know what to say to that. A Seinfeld Point and Click Adventure. The possibilities are, endless. Thank you for your ever thoughtful conversations. I love the idea of a Seinfeld

Point and Click Adventure. I just think we should make that happen. I feel like there has been surely there's been a fan-made Seinfelds game. My answer is a fiddler on the roof role-playing game where you play is Teviya the Milkman

and you have to fight. It's like a dating sim plus fight. Well there's a matchmaker section. You go to the matchmaker and you do some matchmaking. You have to... Good luck. Actually, maybe it would be more of a Star Dew Valley type game. I could see that.

You have to run your Stadol. You have to fight off the Cossacks. And set up your kids accordingly. One of the bad guys you fight is, of course, the Laser Wolf. I know. The coolest name ever. I feel like the final boss would be the inexorable march of progress. It's heavy really kind of loses to that one.

Yeah, sunrise, sunset, or maybe the final bosses. The destructive march of history, maybe. Yeah. Sure. Well, also, Frumisera is also a boss. She's like a haunted ghost, too. You know, you could do like a platformer where you play The Fiddler, and it's all a big metaphor for living your life, you know, jumping along on the roof. But what about you guys?

Do you have suggestions for this? I have one. So I've always wanted to play a really great heist video game. And if there have been heist sequences in games, Persona 5 was built around heist, but it wasn't really that way. actually Detroit become human. The part where that game lurches to life for a couple of chapters is during a heist sequence.

Like, heists are a lot of fun and they kind of... What about Monaco? Monaco is like... Well, I wouldn't call Monaco a heist game, though. Like, Monaco is a very fun, chaotic, stealth action game, but it's not what I'm talking about. So I would want a heist game that is either, you know, Ocean's 11 is the obvious, like, get those characters in there, or stylized versions of those characters. But also, having watched a lot of leverage, leverage.

leverage would actually be really fun because leverage just has the sort of the hitter, the thief, the grifter, they have the sort of archetypes and you could build your. Yeah, you're the mastermind, presumably. The mastermind. And you would be the mastermind, of course. You just want multiplayer hitman. That's what you want. Well, so I think Hitman provides a good template for this, but also I was thinking, how would

this game work? You know, Hitman is pretty heisty like when you get into it. Multiplayer hitman could be cool. This doesn't have to be multiplayer, though. I actually like the idea of controlling multiple characters at once. The game Invisible Inc., which I'm guessing neither of you played, this was a turn-based, kind of X-com-like, but it was a stealth game. So it wasn't like combat.

It was sneaking, and you were doing all this stuff to manipulate, you know, you're kind of infiltrate a building basically and steal the code from the computer, and you needed to not be seen by the guards in the security system. So each turn, you kind of know what everyone's going to do, and you're like problem-solving your way through them. some of the stealth sequences in XCOM too kind of feel this way too. So that could be pretty cool. But then I think that a heist game can't just be the part where you break in because that's cool.

But like a heist movie, you know, the genre of heist, you know, entertainment. It's so about, you know, the motivations and the plot and coming up with a thing where you're going to steal from the bad guy, but in a way that also like takes, you know, what he really likes, like the whole Danny Ocean thing. And so there has to be a narrative element to it as well. That's kind of what's not as present in a game like Invisible Link and could be really cool. So I would love to play a game that maybe it's like a leverage branded game but you make your own characters just because this is an IP question.

It doesn't actually even have to be one. Doesn't GTA online have stuff like this? I haven't played it. No, because it's like Grand Theft Auto. So it's, yeah, I mean, you're kind of sneaking in, but it doesn't have like, it's not as neat or self-contained. It doesn't feel like that big grand heist story. And then also they frequently get very violent,

which in the true heist storytelling, you're not killing people. Yeah, you want to avoid that. Occasionally maybe, what's his name, Oscar? Is that his name? Why am I thinking his name is his Oscar? What's the hitter's name from Loveridge? Oh, God.

I don't know. I have to look it up now. Leverage. I can only remember Hardison and Parker unhelpfully. Elliot, Elliot, not Oscar. Elliot, it's kind of an Oscary name. Elliot, who always gets to beat a few people up each episode and then sings some country because he's a country musician.

There's a little bit of that. mostly you're supposed to be getting in without being seen. So that's my thought on this question. Leverage. I like that. I like the turn-based idea. I felt like what was missing from Monaco not to go too far down that rabbit hole was that you never get to plan the heist.

You only do the heist. And planning the heist is what makes up the bulk of a heist movie or a heist TV show episode. Because it's the fun part, it's where you get into everybody's personal motivations, but also you figure out how it's going to work. And then you do it without a hitch, sort of like the end of death loop, if it were more satisfying to do everything without a hitch. So I'm sort of imagining some combination. Or if you could plan the end of death loop rather than just having to follow a single path. Exactly. Or perhaps there is a single path, but the story is interesting enough that it somehow makes it worth it.

And you only have to do it the one actual time correctly as opposed to like over and over again. So I think some combination of those ideas would work really well. My idea is I just think there should be a murder she wrote game. There probably is and I'm going to hear about it as soon as I've, we've released this episode. Like an LA noir style that you're playing. Like a cozy mystery point and click adventure. I just, those, that show is so formulaic to a fault or perhaps its greatest strength because it's deeply comforting to me.

So having it be a game or just an endless series of games seems like it would hit the spot in an identical way to the show itself. be like Wilger Myth where it like generates a murder she wrote episode for you as you play and it would just all line up for you. There are all those Sherlock Holmes games, the consulting detective games. There's a lot of those. And the old point and click Sherlock Holmes games are almost more what I'm picturing when I picture. Uh-huh.

A murder she wrote. Good stuff. These are great ideas. All right. Next question. Whose turn is it? Kirk is it your turn? Yeah, I guess it is.

This comes from Danielle. Danielle writes, hello. Maddie, Jason, and Kirk. I'm a devoted listener of the show since Kotaku, but I also listen to a ton of other podcasts. Since the pandemic started, I don't get to drive quite as much as before, so one way to get my podcasts in more efficiently is to listen to 2X speed. It made me think about gaming and how some Final Fantasy re-releases and maybe other games too had a double-speed button to make certain tedious parts of the game go by faster. As a very busy freelance filmmaker, I rarely get to play games these days, but I wonder if a 2x button will become the norm in the future to fit busier lifestyles. More and more games are becoming mindful of accessibility and quality of life upgrades,

so it's something I thought might become a standard option in the future. What do you think? How do you feel about podcasts and games at 2X speed? As a filmmaker, I'd hate for people to watch my film at 2X speed. Do podcast hosts feel the same way? I love those. I do not. No, I think all games should have a fast-forward button, especially long JRPGs.

And I think that if you want to listen to us, talk really fast and high-pitched, squeaky, then please go ahead. You have my blessing. I've heard so many stories from people about this. I will say that I think that strong songs, my other podcast, a music focus podcast, really suffers at

2X speed. And I know from a lot of people who have been like, I listen to every podcast at double speed but yours and they mean that as a compliment, which I take as a compliment. And also, it just makes it sound crazy. You can't get that oral experience if you're listening faster, though I'm sure some people manage to

pull it off. I don't know. I remember there was some viral tweets posts about listening to music at 2x speed just as a way to troll people, like to imagine that that was a trend that was starting because everybody already listens to podcasts at 2x speed and in this case plays games at 2x speed. And it's just funny to imagine somebody being like, I just got to get through this playlist faster. Like I want to listen to more music. I want to listen more music as fast as possible. I still like with music, at least 2x speed seems preferable to 1.5 speed because 1.5 speed throws off all the timing. That's what a lot of people use. I met someone

who was like, or I talked to someone on the phone. It was like, it's so weird hearing your voice at like normal speed. Yes, people say that to me too. I've gotten that a few times. Well, and the way that you hear it specifically is that the person sounds inebriated in some way. And I'll never forget. This was actually slowing a voice down. I was transcribing Tim Schaefer after a GDC interview. This is Double Fines, Tim Schaefer, writer of so many

video games and a very funny guy, a very, you know, loquacious guy likes to talk and tell jokes. And he, when he's slowed down, he just sounded like the biggest stoner you've ever heard. Like everything he said. I mean, everyone does. It's not just him. It's really funny. It's really funny. Tim Schaeferisms at two times.

Well, he has a kind of a like, he has a kind of a groovy way of speaking. And it's just like, it made me think about gaming. How some final fantasy. It was so funny. And it was helpful because I can't type super fast. But I was laughing so hard. I was like, I can't do this anymore. It's just too weird.

And then, yeah, people will say to us, when I hear you at normal speed, it makes you all sound like you're drunk, which is pretty funny. Great. That's a great way of experience. It's so funny that you have gotten so used to that. I'm sure. Transcribing so many interviews. Right, right.

Yeah. At slow speed, which is essential. Are there any games that you all feel like playing at two times speed would be completely impossible. I mean, obviously, anything that requires reaction time, but it would be really funny if somebody was like, yeah, I played Halo Infinite at 2X speed, like, whatever. I thought it was really fun.

Yeah, only certain games really support it. Why isn't that a brag? Like, why aren't people playing Eldon Ring offline at 2X speed and posting it? Come on, get it together, people. This part of the question, I think, is really interesting. Just playing, you know, versions of old games for this show that we can fast forward through

and that this is a much more common thing in old games, which matches up with the fact that old games also tend to waste your time a lot more, these old JRPOs-S, Suicodin 2, Final Fantasy 6. Wow, I don't know what you're talking about. And now he's like, I totally disagree with him. Wonderful user-touch. I'm treasuring every moment, but go on.

So I, fast-forwarding through a lot of the like combat and traversal and Sweet-Codin 2 is a really funny experience. I mean, it does make me think it'd be nice if this were standard in every day, game, in part because just if you're feeling like you just want to get somewhere and if the game is making you walk across the whole map, just like holding on a button that just makes the thing fly by is really nice. But it does change the difficulty of the game. Like, I'll be running around the castle and Swaycoded and just like go flying across the castle like to the wrong place.

And like always, you know, it's there are times where I have to kind of learn a new way of playing. It's a little more arcadey almost, like a different kind of a game. Yeah, you got to get your Twitch speed up. But you can, you said it, what you do is you set it so you have to hold down the trigger to be fast forward. Oh no, I know, but I mean. But it's fun not to and to run around the castle as fast as possible and make sure you still hit the right exit. There are things like, okay, you'll both be able to relate to this for this section that we're playing. When you're in the castle, to get up to the boat, which you have to do over and over and over because you have to get on the boat to go to the lake side place to go to the next place.

And like to get to the boat, you run straight up into the castle, but the castle isn't a bunch of straight lines. So it's like, then you have to cut over to the right through a little door. Then you go into the door that leads with the anchor over it. But then you have to go in a circle down some stairs and then up into a doorway that's under the stairs you went down. So you have to do a circle. And if you do that for the seventh time, you're like, I can't try to go really fast? And it becomes this like, okay, can I do it without like getting stuck on anything? And it's kind of its own little challenge.

It's a fun little challenge. Yeah. I get it. I like that. I like that. I'm going to do that later. I'm going to see if I can do it in one. I think like frame rate and speed are so inexorably tied to the way that the game plays,

that in modern games, this isn't really... Yeah, that's kind of absurd. It has to be something that's old enough that your hardware can just be like, let's just quadruple the frame rate and make this whole thing run super fast, which isn't something that hardware can do for current games. Yeah, I guess so. Although there are times that I just... It is funny, though, when you're a kid and you're playing an old game,

and then your parents finally upgrade the computer, and then the old game runs ridiculously fast, and it becomes completely unplayable. That certainly happened in my house. a couple of times. Sure. This was the thing with Skyrim where the frame rate, the game is tied to the frame rate in certain ways. So like you'll go to like, I don't know, things like things will age super fast or like, mechanics in the game will happen way faster than they're supposed to if you unlock the frame rate, which is always sort of funny. So wait, so you guys haven't answered

the question. Kirk, you sort of did. Do you guys feel like would you hate for people to listen to our podcast at two times the speech? No, no, it's fine with me. No, it's fine with this show because I think you're still getting the essential experience. And like I said, I do think, I do recommend people not listen to strong songs in that way because I think that that is actually... Well, anything that requires pacing and that the creators are deliberate with the pacing. And music. The author here, Danielle, wrote that they would hate for people to watch their films

two times the speed. And I think that's because, like, there's a little bit more deliberate, like, choices involved as opposed to the three of us just, like, talking for her. Yeah. And it's that music is straight up ruined. Like, I mean, the Sweet Coden soundtrack, I really love it, but when I play that game fast forward, the music is just gone. Like, it's just vanished as an element.

Right, yeah. I mean, but it's also probably true that if we were playing Sweet Coden at normal speed, we would have a different take on it, hypothetically. Yes. Like, young Jason playing it at regular speed. Yeah, to be clear, I was talking about podcasts. I wasn't talking about games there. I was talking about the pacing of podcasts versus, like, like, our podcast doesn't require

any sort of, like, deliberate, slow down. And like if we were doing, on the other hand, if we were doing like some sort of narrative podcast where like we put a little more thought into like the pauses and the music breaks. We should read poetry on here, I think. We should start doing that. But also people should listen to the theme song at least once at normal speed because it freaking rules. That's just my personal opinion. All right.

We're going to take a break and then we will be back with some poetry. Thank you so much to everyone who participated in this year's Max Fun Drive. If you're a member who wants to purchase additional patches, our annual shop is now live. The proceeds for this year's sale will be going to Trans Lifeline. Anytime is a good time to donate to Trans Lifeline, but this year it feels particularly important. Trans Lifeline is a nonprofit for the trans community by the trans community. We're grateful that with your support, we'll be able to help Trans Lifeline connect trans folks to the support and resources they need to survive and thrive.

The sale will run until Friday, May 12th. Folks at the $10 monthly level and above will have access to all of the patches from the drive. We also have a special network patch starring Nutsi that all members can purchase. For more information on Transliflifeline, visit transliflign.org. And for more information on the patches, head to maximumthun.org slash patch sale. Hey, this is Alden Ford. And we are here with all the other creators of Mission to Zix. Hello.

You're not going to say our. names too? No, no, it's a short promo. Yeah. I'll sort of speed through it. Now, with the end of our fifth and final season, just a few weeks away, we want to say thank you to maximum fun and to every single one of you who's listened to and supported Mission to Zix. Thank you.

And if you haven't checked it out, well, Mission to Zix is an improvised space opera with blockbuster quality sound design, a score performed by an actual 60 piece orchestra, and hilarious guest comedians on every episode. And as our final episodes air, now is the perfect time to

jump on board? That's Mission to Zix, Zy-X-Y-X-X on maximum fun. And we are back, and it is time for one more thing. Kirk, why don't you take us away? And we are back. We will not sing. Instead, we will do one more thing. I was ready for you to do some kind of a ride. That's good. All right, so that's Kirk's one more thing. That was it. It was my little couplet. My one more thing is a fake out because the one more thing that I'm talking about is also a fakeout. It says here that my one more thing is the Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe, which is a new expanded

version of the Stanley Parable, but it's not really my one more thing because I'm not going to say, I don't want to say anything about it, except that people should play it because it's crazy and really cool. Are you playing it on Steam Deck? That's where I was going to play. Yes, I have been, though it doesn't have a reticle on Steam Deck yet, which is sort of a bummer, but it's still

playable. But yeah, this is just a, that's all I'm going to say about it. It's really cool. And in the grand tradition of the Stanley Parable, saying that it's one thing, and then faking you out and surprising you. I'm just going to say that my actual one more thing is the movie Venom, which I just watched on Sunday. Yeah, I told you to watch Venom.

Because I knew that this would excite Maddie, and I wanted to tell Maddie that I watched Venom. Yes. I can't believe I hadn't seen Venom. Venom ruled. It was an awesome movie. So good. So I felt kind of disappointed.

I was kind of disappointed by Spider-Man No Way Home, though, of course, there is a mild Venom reference in that, and I was like, oh, yeah, Venom. And I was also, I kind of never internalized that Tom Hardy is the star of that movie. Wow. So you're just pleasantly surprised by the Tom Hardy of it all. When I learned that, I was like, well, of course Tom Hardy is going to be in one of these. He's like one of the most interesting actors anywhere right now. He's this amazing guy and he's never really been in a superhero movie. Bain, dude?

That's true. Yeah, but I mean, he's never starred as a superhero. Okay. His performance is pretty incredible in that movie. You think? I think it's so weird. I rewatch that movie recently. That is such a strange movie, and his performance is very strange. I mean, he sounds like Decker-Kane from Diablo.

He's doing a whole thing in that movie. Stay a while and listen. It's cool, and I know he loves to use his voice. The fire rises. What I'm saying is a modern, like, where he's the hero of a superhero film. Like, he hasn't done that yet, which is surprising. He's such a great actor, and he's such a freaking weirdo. And he's so weird in this movie, and that's what makes it great.

There are so many line deliveries that he gives. that are just, no other actor would have read the line that way. And that was the experience of watching the movie. It was just me, like, laughing and laughing and laughing at how much fun he was having. Doing the whole thing of, like, being possessed by a monster, and then doing the voice of the monster and arguing with himself and just being covered in sweat and, like, falling apart and losing it and, like, having, like, a breakdown in the middle of a restaurant

and, like, throwing stuff and climbing into a fountain. And, I mean, it's just scene after scene after scene. It's so much fun. It has this, like, anarchic, I don't get. a shit energy that I just haven't felt from Marvel movies in so long because it's just not a Disney Marvel movie. It's just that other kind of thing. It's Fox, right? Yeah. But it's not the kind of played out Deadpool thing either, where it's like winking at you and being like, ha ha, like violence. He's like eating people's heads. It's just like a cool monster movie that's really funny and

fun. And I really liked it. I was like, I was kind of disappointed by like I said Spider-Man. And also I liked Dr. Strange. I went and saw that in theaters. And it was like, it was cool, but it's had this Marvel thing that everything Marvel just has. It's very slick. It's very produced in a certain way. It is fun that Venom has parts of it that are kind of bad. I know that sounds crazy to say, but it feels underdeveloped in certain ways and it has some room to be strange and take risks that don't pay off and don't work at all, but then it also takes risks that I think are incredible and perfect. And it's, it's fun to see a movie like that in a time period where it feels like every superhero movie is every edge has been sanded off into just a fine crystal sheen and it all fits together.

That's very much not the case of Doctor Strange too. Well, I haven't seen it yet. Well, so the way, but the way that Venom is like channeling horror movie, like monster movie energy, because what's remarkable about Dr. Strange is that Sam Ramey made it and the final act of that movie, I will not say more, but there's like some real Ramey stuff in there. And it's really cool to see personality, like a director's personality, just like firing off on the screen. I'm like, yes, like, I rarely feel that way when watching Marvel movies. And yeah, there's totally stuff in Venom. Plus, it's just, it's not afraid to be weird and kind of, like, kinky and, like, funky.

And just, it has all this, like, weird, dark energy going on that's just, it's just kind of a B movie in a really good way. So, yeah. I really liked it. I'm going to watch Let There Be Carnage just because I got a, like, Star subscription, and now I can watch it. Amazing. I'm totally going to watch that movie, too.

But, yeah, I am now a Venom fan. It's a good movie. Great. Annie, what's your one more thing? So mine is also a movie. This was not planned. So this is one of my favorite movies of all time. And I got to show it to Dina this past weekend because it's on HBO Max.

And it is a 1972 romantic comedy called What's Up Doc. It doesn't have Bugs Bunny in it at all. I don't know why it's called that. This was an era when people would just title movies whatever they wanted, I think. And it didn't really matter what the content of the movie was. That wasn't how it was marketed. So the movie has nothing to do with the title. Not really. I mean, Barbara Streisand stars in it. She says that at least one time while eating a carrot. So there's that. So she plays a manic pixie dream girl who also has sort of an uncanny power to cause accidents wherever she goes. And she gets to use her comedy chops in this movie in so many ways. And I adore her. She's basically a scammer who sees Ryan O'Neill, who was like a heartthrob of the era, but he's playing a huge.

nerd in this movie and she just becomes completely obsessed with him and is like I'm going to make this happen and the jokes like people talk about how old movies have really slow-paced jokes but this movie is so fast-paced I have seen this movie hundreds of times and I still laugh at it and notice new things or facial expressions in it oh and also Madeline Khan is the fiancee that Barba Strysand and getting very excited forces Ryan Neil to break up with. So I just, I really love this movie. It is one of my favorite movies of all time for a reason. And I never hear anyone talk about it ever. How did you discover this? I've never heard of it. How did this become one of your favorite movies? It was one of my mom's favorite movies as a kid.

I think just because she thought Ryan O'Neill was a hunk and watch stuff, she's going to call me and be like, Maddie, that's not the reason. It was purely Barbara Streisand's comedy chops. I don't know why my mom liked it, but she introduced me and my sister to it. We became obsessed. We quoted it for years. And every time I watch it again, I'm like, I see exactly why we did this because this is one of the greatest, funniest movies ever made. And I'm really over recommending it, but it's because I want more people to know how good it is. Like, it's that good. I will watch this movie. I'm totally going to watch this movie.

I also had never heard of it. And it sounds delightful. Do it. You're going to have a great time. What's Up Doc? What's Up Doc? 1972. It's on HBO Max.

Yeah. My one more thing is a book called Disrupting the Game by Reggie Fiesome. This is a memoir by the former president of Nintendo of America that just came out last week. What a missed opportunity can I say that he didn't call his book My Body is Ready. Right? Come on. Yeah. I think that if you saw that at a bookstore, you would have.

You might think it was about something else? You would think it was a little bit different. You would immediately buy it? I'm not sure. that would have worked. But yeah, this book is really interesting. It's not like, it's not a book that is, so it's a memory about his life. Only a small portion of it is actually about Nintendo.

A lot of it is about his upbringing and his time at other companies, because he was a marketing executive at like Parker and Gamble and Pizza Hut and stuff like that. And a lot of it is just like business leadership principle stuff. It's also a very light read. It's only like 200 pages. So don't go into this book. expecting like actual interesting insight from Nintendo or anything like that. That said, it's an interesting read. And like if you out there grew up or like spent the past few

years enjoying watching Reggie Fisa Me like on stage at E3 and you thought he was an interesting person who you want to know more about, this is definitely worth it. And I actually interviewed him about the book. I can link to the Bloomberg piece. I probed him on Mother 3 and he gave me a tangible, a concrete answer for the first time ever, which is basically that Mother 3 never came here because of business reasons, not because of the risque content. And they discussed it a few times, but just cannot make it work. I think a lot of people have theorized and there had been like even reporting suggesting that it was because of the content in Mother 3, which has some, some like, some gender issues or some like ambiguous gender characters who people thought

the Nintendo wouldn't want to have to deal with. But Reggie denies that. Anyway, so the book is interesting. I asked him about a few things in it. I asked him, I actually asked him about, he has like these kind of key stories that he references in the book, one of which being that he regrets he was not able to convince NCL Nintendo of Japan to cut the price of the 3DS from 250 to 199. And therefore, as a result, the 3DS kind of had a tepid launch and they had to slash the price anyway, like a few months afterwards. But it's funny because I asked him his biggest regret from his time of Nintendo. And it was that, which is basically, him saying, my biggest regret is that I was right

and I couldn't convince the other people with you. Yeah, is that a regret? I don't know. It's a very reggie answer, though. Yeah, it's a very reggie answer. But yeah, there's some interesting stuff in there. He talks a lot about his relationship with Iwada and Iwada passing away and now that affected him and that was really interesting. It seems like, as we all kind of knew and suspected, that NOA, Nintendo of America, really had to battle

Nintendo of Japan on a lot of things. And like, Nintendo of Japan always had the final saying it matter what. That was always a thing. He talks about, he spends like two pages total talking about the switch and the Wii, which is unfortunate. I thought there would be more room for reflection there. And yeah, I mean, it's interesting. It's worth looking into. Also, a couple of bonus pieces from my interview with him in case you guys are curious. I asked him, do you guys remember a while back there was a report from Ben Fritz? I think he was at the Wall Street Journal at the time saying, that Nintendo was doing a Zelda Netflix show.

And then there was a report later that because of that report, the Zelda Netflix show was canceled because it leaked in the first place. It was canceled. Anyway, I asked Reggie about this. He just says, there's nothing for me to add to that story. I have no dramatic insight there. Very helpful response. I was asking him a little bit about the future Nintendo and what he saw.

He was like, well, I'm just a fan. Like, I know as much as you knew. But I feel like. Reggie. He's just a fan. He knows more than we know. He's just a fan. He was saying that he left three years ago. He was saying he left them with like a two year game plan and I'm sure he knows tons of stuff about what's going to. But so basically I asked him about like one of the questions that we all have, which is that if an insider comes out with a switch too, is it just going to be like another fuck you reset thing where it's like brand new console, brand new everything, have to buy all new games for it like ports from the switch or whatever. And he was essentially like yeah, I think that they know better like that. I think the company recognizes that today's consumer wants to continue engaging with content on a much longer term basis than simply going from cycle to cycle. That's what he said. So that kind of suggests to me that they get it there.

I mean, I love to engage with content on a long-term basis. On a longer cycle, if possible. Longer, yes. That's how marketing executives talk. Speaking of how Reggie talks, I hear he reads the audio book on this one, which is if I read this book at all, the way I intend to consume it. Absolutely agree. I would love to listen to Reggie tell me his own story.

And on one X speed, thank you very much. I will be hearing Reggie's voice undiluted and undisturbed. Do you like to listen to him talk? Yeah, it's nice. Last thing I asked him about that I'll just throw in real quick is I asked him about switching to Nintendo directs from live E3 presentations. And his interest was pretty straightforward. He was like, yeah, we were pivoting from like executing these big live events

who's getting more challenging. Like things could go really wrong. And we were having a lot of success with these smaller. Nintendo Directs and so they made the pivot just after the like around the Wii U time and it seems like

he says that other game executives other like CEOs and stuff would come up to them and be like hey you guys are doing this the right way like we wish we could do it this way and he would and well he would say to them so why aren't you and they would be like oh I don't know it's just how we've always done it

which was which is funny I talked a little bit about the inertia there but yeah no his book is it's cool. It's interesting, even though it's kind of weak if you are expecting lots of Nintendo details. So again, if you are interested in it, come into it, understanding that this is not going to be like a juicy Nintendo book. It's going to be just a life character study of this one guy who had a really interesting life and his kind of business leadership principles that he wants to teach you as a result. So it's called Disrupting the Game, Reggie Fisomey,

if you want to check it out. Nice. All right, that is it for this week's episode. Kirk, Maddie. See you both next week. See you both next week. Bye. Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier,

Maddie Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network. And if you like our show,

we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximum fun.org slash join. Find us on Twitter at triple clickpod, send email the triple click at maximum fun.org and find a link to our discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist-owned. Audience-supported.