True Crime All The Time - Aaron Hernandez Part 1

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Aaron Hernandez showed exceptional athletic talent from a young age. In high school, he was recruited to play football at the University of Florida, and ultimately he left college early to join the NFL. It seemed like Aaron had everything. He was a millionaire playing for a top NFL team. He was engaged to his high school sweetheart and had a daughter with her, and he was a talented football player with a promising future. But, Aaron’s success abruptly came to an end when he was charged with murder in June 2013. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Aaron Hernandez. He grew up in a home where he experienced physical abuse at the hands of his father. He also claimed that he experienced sexual abuse. Some NFL execs said they would not draft Aaron because they didn't like the people he hung around with. At the time of the murders, he was engaged to his high school sweetheart and had a daughter with her. He was a talented football player with a promising future, so how did he wind up a murderer?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 334 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good about yourself. I'm doing all right. I've had kind of a rough week, not going to lie. My eight-year-old Maltese got very, very sick. Yeah. Wouldn't eat for like three days.

We took her to the vet twice. And then just yesterday, she kind of. perked back up and she's her old self. That's good. Yeah, they did blood work. They gave her like IV or fluids and just nothing worked. And then I guess she just had to fight through it. Yeah.

So luckily she's okay. And the blood work came back fine. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. All right. We had Courtney C. Hey, Courtney. Victor. Victor.

Lynn Davis jumped out at our highest level. Awesome, Lynn. Annette Hollywood. Hey, Annette. Arden Capazola. Oh, capozua. Sounds like a good, good Italian meat. I knew you were going to say that. And I was thinking the same thing. Like that, that would be good on an Italian sub.

Yeah. Maya Katser. Oh, Maya. Stacy notes. What's going on, Stacy? Ah, Tiffany Sloan. Hey, Tiffany. Corinza McClure.

I like that. Carinza. Shana Hobson. What's up, Shazy Stafford. Hey, SS. Kat Upton jumped out of our highest level. Well, thank you, Kat. Joan Kirsten.

Hey, Joan. Kimberly Spray. Hey, there's a sprague. And last but not least, Carrie Broussard. Oh, Broussard. And then if we go back into the vault. Yeah. This week, we selected Timothy McHaut. There's Timothy.

Yeah. Appreciate all the Patreon support. And on PayPal, we had donations from M. Herrig. Hey, Herrick. Jason Oh, the Olhanian. Yep. And Hot Garbage, True Crime Edition by Nisha. You're going to have garbage.

Make it hot. Yeah. So Nisha's a bit. been a listener of TCAT for a very long time. She started her own podcast. Well, awesome. Yeah. So I want to check that out.

Buddy, right now on Unsolved, we have an episode out on the Skelton brothers. Three young brothers, all under the age of 10. Yeah. Go to their dad's house for a visitation. Mom drops them off. Mom comes back and they're nowhere to be found. Dad doesn't really have the answers she wants to hear. No, he's got a bunch of different answers.

He does. of them seem to make a whole lot of sense. So definitely check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am ready. We are covering a case that I've been wanting to do for a long time. We're talking about ex-football player, Aaron Hernandez. And, you know, for me, the draw in a case like this is a guy who seemingly had it all, you know, he was this unbelievable football player, all the talent and the world. He was at the top of his game and threw it all the way. People are really fascinated when the mighty fall. Yeah. No, they are because we hold people, you know, kind of up on a pedestal.

We do. They're larger than life. They're on television. They're a star. They're this or that. So when they fall, it's newsworthy. It's, I don't want to say that people revel in some people's downfall, but I think they do. Sometimes, especially if they're the type of star that's in the limelight that boast about their success. Being a certain way. Yes. And then it turns out they're not like that at all. Yes. I think, yeah, I get that. So Aaron Hernandez showed exceptional athletic talent from a young age. In high school, he was recruited to play football at the University of Florida. And he left college early to join the NFL. You know, like I said, it's seemed like Aaron had everything.

He was a millionaire playing for one of the top teams in the NFL. He was engaged to his high school sweetheart with whom he had a daughter. He was this talented football player with a very promising future. He was young, you know, at the time. He was. He was set to make millions and millions of dollars for many years. Aaron's success abruptly came to an end when he was charged with murder in June 2013. So in this part one of the Aaron Hernandez episodes, we'll discuss his early life, his football career, the murder of Odin Lloyd and the investigation that led the police to identify Aaron Hernandez as a suspect.

Aaron Joseph Hernandez was born on November 6, 1989 in Bristol, Connecticut. You know why Bristol is kind of famous in the sports world? For the NASCAR? No. I don't know. You're talking about Bristol Motor Speedway? I do. It's actually where ESPN is.

Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. I remember when ESPN started like in the late 70s. Do do, do do, do that's all I know. They probably didn't even have the music back then, but they always said, we're coming to you from Bristol, Connecticut. Ah.

And I was like, Bristol Connecticut. Where is that? Aaron was the second son of Dennis Hernandez and Terry Valentine Hernandez. his older brother is Jonathan Hernandez. Dennis Hernandez dreamed of athletic greatness for his sons, according to the Boston Globe. Dennis was considered a local success story. He had run-ins with the law growing up.

But as a teenager, he was a star football player at Bristol Central High School, where Aaron would later attend school. Terry also attended Bristol Central High. Dennis earned a football scholarship to the, University of Connecticut. So I don't know how out of the ordinary this is. You have a star athlete in a city or town. Do they have some scrapes with the law? Maybe. I'll say they do. Sure. Do those get overlooked? Do those get swept under the rug? I would think maybe even more so in a small town. Yeah. You know, in some of the small towns across America, football is king. It is.

You know, Friday nights is football. And if you've got a really good player, I could see maybe some people looking the other way. Absolutely. To make sure that this person continues to play. Yeah. And leads the football team. Now, what does that do, though, later on? Well, it teaches that individual that they can get away with things.

I'm so good that people are going to overlook the bad things that I do. That's right. So I understand why it happens, but I don't think you're doing that kid any favors by doing that. Now, we're talking about his dad here at this point. Right. Two days after the University of Connecticut lost its last game of their 1977 season, an officer from Plainville, Connecticut was killed in a home burglary. Dennis was questioned as a person of interest. The Boston Globe obtained an affidavit that states that Dennis was not involved in the

murder, but tried to help one of the burglars evade the police. Dennis was never charged. He did not graduate college and school records show that he was on the verge of failure. Terry and Dennis got married in 1986. They divorced in 1991, then remarried in 1996. Sometimes couples do that. Yeah, we've actually covered a number of cases where people have remarried. Maybe they just needed to break.

maybe they realized after their next marriage what they actually threw away or had in that first one. The grass wasn't greener. The grass wasn't greener. It's not always greener. Sometimes it is, though. It is. Now, I shouldn't say that. My wife's going to hear that and think, you know, this week is our 27th wedding anniversary.

So, honey, I'm not saying that about you or. Your grass is perfect. Okay. That's going to come out. world. In 1999, the couple filed for bankruptcy. When Aaron was three years old, Dennis was arrested and charged with trying to buy cocaine from an undercover officer. Terry was arrested for being part of an underground sports gambling bookie operation out of their home. Sources state that Dennis worked as a custodian and Terry worked as a secretary. And I do think maybe not this exact scenario, but this

kind of general scenario plays out quite a bit. You have a star athlete who in high school can do no wrong. Right. And maybe they're given passes on grades. Maybe they're, you know, given a pass on brushes with the law. But we know just by the statistics, how hard it is to make the jump from high school to college and then from college to actually getting paid. Very difficult. Yeah, the percentage is so low of people who actually make it. So yeah, they might get a free college education out of it, but how many people graduate? And if they don't go on to the NFL, what do they have to fall back on? A lot of them, not much. Yeah. It's it can be a tough situation. Aaron said in jailhouse phone calls that his mother kicked his dad out, but always let him come back.

He said in one phone call per the Boston Globe, my mom went through a real lot with my father, but she just believes in she loves someone. She just always sticks by them. Aaron and his brother, Jonathan, were beaten by their father. According to the Boston Globe, Jonathan Hernandez told the Globe that they lived in constant fear of him. And the beatings were so severe and occurred so often that Jonathan once threatened to call the police.

He said, I picked up the phone once to call to seek help. And his dad's response was called them. And he handed me the phone. And he said, I'm going to beat you even harder. You and your brother. And they're going to have to pull me off you when they knock down the door. Okay.

Talking about putting fear into somebody. That is some scary stuff. If you're a kid, you're already getting beaten. And now you've made a threat to, call the police. I don't know if threat's the right word, but you know what I'm saying. Sure. Yeah. You're saying, I'm tired of it. I'm going to call the police. And your dad, again, the person who's supposed to protect you is the one beating you and says, you go ahead and call them and find out what happens to you. Yeah. That's scary stuff. I hope you're ready for what's going to

happen. Aaron and his brother were beaten for, you know, minor thing or when their father was drinking. Dennis became angry when he felt like his son. weren't trying hard enough in school or sports. And I do think it was important to talk about Dennis's athletic journey. Because a lot of times fathers who tried to make it but couldn't, you know, live vicariously through their sons or daughters. Sure. We've seen that.

Absolutely. Sometimes it works out and their son or daughter becomes a big star. Yeah. But, you know, a lot of times they just end up kind of alienating their kids and making the relationship bad because of the way they treat them. Yeah, they're always on them constantly riding them, you know, wanting them to be what they couldn't have been. Yeah, and now this guy's beating them. Yeah. So we got a whole different level to deal with.

Aaron said in a jailhouse phone call obtained by the Boston Globe that there was arguing 24-7 in his home. I bet there was. Well, there's beatings. There's, there had to have been arguments all the time. And then add the alcoholic, you know, father in it, you know, for drinking all the time. It doesn't sound good. No, not at all. Right.

This was not a good childhood. Not the greatest environment to be raised in. No, none of all. Now, none of this was public knowledge. But some people did notice things were off at home. Like former assistant football coach Jeff Morgan, who told the Boston Globe that he saw Aaron with the black. God, after he got kicked out of a school dance for drinking, Dennis Hernandez also once punched

Aaron's youth tackle football coach over a disagreement about coaching. That sounds like somebody might have a little temper. Now, I understand the kids not telling anyone. Yeah. Be out of fear. They must have been, you know, scared for their lives. So it would be hard to go against your dad and know that if things don't go the way you think they will and you're still living in that house, you're, you're in deep trouble.

Sure. But if you're a coach and this guy punches you, you would think there'd be ramifications. I don't know if there were. Jonathan did tell the Boston Globe that he had happy memories with his dad, such as watching TV as a family and playing sports together. Dennis helped them with their athletics and he wanted to see them succeed. So there were good times. Jonathan's admitting that.

but at the same time, how good can it really be if you're living in constant fear? Yeah, and I think sometimes in those cases, you have the extremes, right? You go from, we had amazing time with our dad at one moment and then at a flick of a switch, it was a total nightmare. Or is he able to remember the good times because they were so few and far between? Well, that's the other thing, right? That they stand out. Yeah.

So getting into Aaron, he played football and basketball at Bristol, Central. High School. One of his coaches was University of Connecticut women's coach, Gino Oriama. Aaron was also an honor student in high school, according to USA today. And I don't know how many people know who Gino Oriama is, but he's one of the best women's college coaches ever. Yeah. He's probably won more titles than anyone with the exception of Pat Summit. I don't know. He may have even passed her. Aaron's high school teammate Dennis Sansusi told. the Boston Globe that they smoked marijuana before school practice and games. He also revealed that he and Aaron had a now and then sexual relationship in middle and high school. San Suisi

said, me and him were very much into trying to hide. What we were doing, we didn't want people to know. He said that they lived in a traditional community. Well, if his statement is true, obviously back then probably a little difficult being open about that and probably especially with the way that Aaron's dad was. Well, if you're the star football player, I don't even know what it's like today and we've come leaps and bound. Sure. But you know, you go back 20 years ago, go back to when we were in high school.

What would happen if the star football player came out or was outed? Yeah. It would be a huge deal. It would be. Today, hopefully not so much because it's a much better world that we live in today, especially when it comes to things like that. Absolutely. Jonathan Hernandez said that their father was concerned that Aaron acted feminine.

Dennis often called his sons a common slur used against members of the LGBTQ community. Jonathan is quoted as saying that his father used this word, all the time standing, talking, acting, looking. It was the furthest thing my father wanted you to even look like in our household. This was not acceptable to him. Now, I think pretty much everyone can figure out what this word is. Sure. I'm not going to say it.

Jonathan also told the globe that as an adult, Aaron told him he was sexually molested as a child. He declined to give more details. One of Aaron's lawyers. also said that Aaron talked to him about being sexually abused as a child, but he declined to identify the perpetrator. And, you know, Aaron's sexuality is kind of a big part of the case. And we'll discuss more of that in part two. According to the Daily Mail, Aaron had known his future fiance, Cheyana Jenkins, since the elementary school. Their families live close to each other in Bristol. She and Aaron started an on again, off again relationship. In middle school,

Shiana later testified that she and Aaron had some issues in high school because a lot of girls wanted his attention. And that makes perfect sense. He's the star athlete. Of course. Yeah. So he's going to draw a lot of attention. Attention. Attention. Big tall, good looking guy. Yeah. Yeah, he is tall, good looking. I mean, But if you're that person's girlfriend or boyfriend, that's got to be tough because it's like you're constantly fending off the competition. Yeah. On January 6, 2006, Dennis Hernandez died from complications after a routine hernia surgery. He was only 49 years old.

That's scary, man, because I remember a couple years ago, I had a hernia. Yeah. How's that happen? You know, a lot of things are scary. Yeah. But to go in for what is really considered a routine operation and something goes wrong and you don't make it, that is really scary. People noticed that Aaron didn't cry at his dad's funeral. He kept his emotions inside.

Aaron reportedly turned to drugs after his father's death according to biography.com. So why didn't he cry? Was it because he didn't want to show his emotions or because he wasn't. that sad. I think you can you could analyze it either way. Yeah, you could go either way. A lot of people do not like to show their emotions in public. Right. They may cry all day long at home over something, but don't want to do it in front of a lot of people, but given what we've said about Aaron's family life and his father and the way that his father treated him, would it be out of the question for him maybe to not have some of those emotions because he may not have been all that sad

that his father was gone. Yeah, I mean, the abuser is no longer around. Now, we don't know that for sure. It's just something to throw out there. Yeah. In 2006, Aaron led his team to the Central Connecticut Conference Southern Division Championship here in first team Allstate Honors. He was named a high school All-American after catching 24 touchdowns. That's a lot of touchdowns. That's a lot of touchdowns in a high school football season. During one of his high school football games that year, Aaron was hitting the head, hard enough that he fell down and didn't get up.

He was taken to the hospital. Those football concussions. Well, we're probably going to talk quite a bit about that as well. Yeah. You know, that has been such a hot topic over the last so many years about what is it due to a person's mental health.

physical health, you know, some pretty famous athletes have taken their own lives. And it's come out later that they suffered from, you know, serious concussions, a large number of them. And we talked about head injuries in the past, too, what that might do to somebody. Yeah. And normally we're talking about what did somebody have as a child. But, you know, this football thing in the concussions, it's a big deal. I think it's why so many parents now, do not want their younger kids playing football. No doubt about it. The amount of kids playing football at a young age have decreased. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt. Aaron said in a 2009 USA Today sports article that the aftermath of his father's death was a mess with a lot of family issues, fighting and disagreements in the same article. Terry said, I didn't know what to do for him.

He would rebel. It was very, very hard and he was very, very angry. He wasn't the same kid, the way he spoke to me, the shock of losing his dad. There was so much anger. Okay. So now that gives you maybe a little more insight. Maybe there was quite a bit of emotion there and he just didn't want to show it in front of other people. But she's saying anger.

Yeah. He had a different way to let it out. Maybe, maybe. Aaron became alienated from his. mother after his father's death, he learned that his mother was in a relationship with his cousin Tanya Singleton's husband, Jeff Cummings. Tanya divorced Jeff and he and Terry moved in together. Aaron and Tanya became especially close. Aaron started spending long periods of time at her house in Bristol. The Boston Globe reported that Tanya's house was a welcoming place for all kinds of people,

including some with criminal records. But the key was he felt comfortable there, right? He felt like that was more of a home than his home. It's what it sounds like. But it also is kind of hinting at the fact that he might be meeting at this place some people who are into criminal activities. But I want to go back to, you know, his mother getting involved with his cousins husband.

I don't know, to me it just seemed a little close, family-wise. Sometimes cousins are. Yeah. Sometimes cousins are as well. And I don't know how close cousins are. They're even closer, I think. Sometimes. Terry and Jeff Cummings eventually got married in 2009.

But in 2010, he slashed Terry with a knife. He went to jail and they got divorced. That would be a good reason to get divorce when you get shanked shanked shived yeah slashed sounds like a bad choice and husband well i just mentioned you know this week's my 27th wedding anniversary not once have i even thought about let alone went through was slashing my wife they didn't even make it a year no until the slashing started so i think you're right it's a bad pick some people are slasters the boston globe reported that many people close to errant knew about his troubled relationship with his mom.

But college recruiters felt the need to include her in the process. The two played what was described as their roles in public. Oh, in public. Yeah. Aaron informally accepted a scholarship to the University of Connecticut before his father died. But due to his talent, he was getting the attention of recruiters from larger schools. And we were talking about Michigan, Notre Dame, Boston College, Florida. these are some of the elite colleges.

Absolutely, they are. Not that Connecticut is a bad college, but football-wise. It's never been a powerhouse. In January 2007, Aaron enrolled in the University of Florida after graduating high school early. In April of that year, he punched an employee at a bar in Gainesville. Aaron tried to leave without paying for two drinks. According to a police report, he told the server he didn't order them. A manager confronted Aaron.

their conversation got heated and Aaron's teammate Tim Tebow tried to step in. He encouraged Aaron to leave and offered to pay the bill. But Aaron punched the manager and fled the bar. Aaron was found a couple hours later and said the manager got in his face and he didn't order the drinks. The next day, the victim told the police that the punch burst his eardrum and he lost hearing in his right ear. The injury took about four to six weeks to heal.

The police took out a sworn. complaint for felony battery, but Aaron was never formally charged. Of course not. This is the University of Florida back in their heyday. Yeah. I'm sure alumni made sure somehow. Somebody did. Yeah.

That's, I don't know that for a fact. But I want to talk about Tim Tebow. Oh, yeah. Tim Tebow, I think, didn't he win the Heisman trophy? Yeah. Now, he never really made it in the NFL, but he's a broadcaster now. Oh, yeah. He's a pretty famous guy.

He was an amazing college athlete. Kind of a good guy, good boy of football back in the day. It's just interesting that he was there during this altercation. And it sounds like he tried to play the good guy role here. Step in, I'll pay for the drink. Remember who his coach was? Was it Urban Meyer? Yeah.

Remember they had that play for the jump pass? Yeah. Yeah, where he would jump up. Yep, jump up and throw it to Aaron. Yeah. Yeah. Then he later coached our Buckeyes. Yeah. On September 30th, 2007, Aaron was one of several University of Florida football players questioned by the police after two men were injured in a shooting at a nightclub in Gainesville.

No charges were filed. So I don't know exactly what role he played in this. Maybe he had no role. Yeah. But maybe he had a role. And like other times before, it got swept under the rug. because it's very possible. It happens with these high profile athletes.

And if you're at a major college for football or basketball or whatever and you're projected to be a star, you're a top recruit, it's not out of the realm of possibility that you would get to star treatment. For sure. And I think there's a lot of favors that go around in this community, those type of communities. Well, they might also just be a fan of the football team. Sure. We don't know.

Yeah, especially if, by the way, you've got you some season passes here. I got you. Great tickets. Yeah. Or it got you a gig guarding the sideline. Absolutely. That pays X amount of dollars. Yeah.

I'm not saying that's what happened. No, I know that. But these are all possibilities. My big point here is that if it did happen, you really weren't doing Aaron Hernandez any favors. And I don't think you're doing anybody any favors when you do stuff like that. Yeah, if they think I'm untouchable. There's no consequences. Right.

It's just going to lead to further, you know, bad behavior. Despite these incidents, Aaron had a very successful football career at the University of Florida. He was a tied in. And he had 111 catches across three seasons, which was the school record for tight ends. He was an honorable mention All-American in 2008 when the team won. the National's Championship. The next year, he was named a consensus All-American. It means you're one of the best college football players in America.

Exactly right. On January 6th, 2010, after receiving the John Mackey Award for being the best collegiate tight end in the country, Aaron announced that he was going to forego his senior season and would enter the NFL draft. He was selected as the 113th pick. of the 2010 NFL draft by the New England Patriots. He was the youngest player in the NFL at the start of the 2010 season. So, you know, 113th, that's not bad.

It's not bad. Doesn't scream that you're going to be a star. Right. Because you're not going in the first round. That's more like what, the third or fourth round. I figure it's probably the fourth round. Maybe, yeah. But a lot of people picked later on, you know,

turn out to be really good football players. and people picked very early on, turned out to not be very good football. See that a lot, haven't we? That first season, his rookie season, he had 45 catches, which was a team rookie record for tight ends, and he scored six touchdowns.

That's very productive for a rookie. I think as a rookie player, you're feeling pretty good about that year. He also had a very good quarterback, throwing him in the ball. Yeah, by the name of Tom Brady. Yeah, can't hurt when you're feeling, have a player like that too bad not too bad he's okay he was okay as a as a quarterback yeah now i want

to talk about the draft right i mentioned he went 113th overall i think he would have gone much higher he had the talent to go much much higher but it was said that NFL teams were wary of drafting him because he admitted to failing a drug test according to biography dot com CBS sports quoted one unnamed NFL scout is saying, we stayed away because we hated the people he hung out with and how trouble always finds this guy. Published reports from this time said that Aaron told teams at the NFL scouting combine that he used marijuana to cope with his father's death. Well, that's definitely going to drive your placement in the draft down. Yes, it is. And the one thing that really jumps out at me is this NFL scout saying we weren't going to draft him at any point, fifth, sixth,

seventh round, because we didn't like the people he was hanging out with. Yeah. The one thing that you know is that people, when it comes to the NFL draft, they do a lot of behind the scenes work. They find out everything they can find out about you, who your friends are, who you hang out with. They have to because you've got to realize they're going to put a lot of money into you. It's a huge investment.

Yeah, yeah, because they're not looking just for somebody to play one season with them. They want somebody that's going to be there for a while. And they're going to put that money into you to develop your skills even greater than what they were when you came there, right? You're going to work with the best of the best. 2011 was a big year for the Patriots. Aaron Hernandez and tied in Rob Grunkowski had 24 touched. downs. In 2,237 regular season receiving yards, the team went all the way to the Super Bowl, but lost to the New York Giants. And I don't know if you remember that game. It was epic.

Yeah. That was the game where the Giants receiver caught the ball on the top of his helmet and came down. But that's a pairing. You think about how good Rob Grancowski was. Oh, yeah. And he just, you know, retired not that long ago, I think last year. Put those two guys together, they were very hard to stop. And obviously with Tom Brady, throwing them the ball. On August 27, 2012, Aaron signed a five-year, $40 million contract extension with the Patriots. His contract also included a $12.5 million signing bonus, according to ESPN, as reported by biography.com.

Aaron said at the time, this place changed me as a person because you can't come here and act reckless. I was one of those persons. I came here and might have acted the way I wanted to act, but you get changed by Bill Belichick. You get changed by the Patriot way. And that's something that has always been said. Right. You know, the Patriots will take players that other teams have gotten tired of. And for the lack of a better term, make them walk the line or, you know, get them to act the way that they want them to act. Kind of like a boot camp. Yeah, they just do things a certain way.

And I think it's part of the reason why they have been successful for a very long time. But that's a lot of money to throw at a young kid, you know? Yeah. Yeah, he's, he's, what, in his early, early 20s. $12 million bonus? That's, that's cash up front. Absolutely. And then, you know, the rest of it over five years.

But during the next season, he experienced. He experienced an ankle injury. Receiver Wes Welker left the team. Rob Grunkowski had some health problems, which meant that Aaron had the potential to take on a bigger role with the team. Aaron reached out to Shiana after college. She moved in with him during his second season with the Patriots. But she moved out when she found out Aaron was cheating on her,

but then eventually moved back in. Their daughter, Aviel, was born on November 6, 2012. well. And Aaron proposed to Shiana later that month. They plan to get married in 2014, but the wedding never happened. Aaron said in an interview with NESN after Aviel was born, every time I come from the stadium. I can't wait to see her. And she's a cutie. And basically, I can't wait to go back and look at my daughter. One thing I know is that it definitely changed my life. I'm going to look at things differently. And I may be the young and wild, but I'm not. I'm engaged now and I have a baby. So it's just going to make me think of life

a lot differently and doing things the right way. Now, we know that statement is not going to fully come to fruition. Right. We wouldn't be talking about Aaron Hernandez on true crime all the time. But it sounds like in his head, he knows what's right and wrong and he wants to be that person. Yeah. I absolutely agree with you. And I experienced something. similar. Now, I wasn't headed down a bad path when I had my first child, but I experienced something. And I think a lot of parents do. It was like, okay, things are different. Yeah. You know, I can't go out drinking with the guys because I have this responsibility. And really, ever since I had kids, I haven't been much of a drinker. Because in the back of my mind, I've always had this thought.

what happens if something is wrong with them? My wife, I don't know, whatever, and I'm drunk and I can't help them. I know that sounds strange, but it's been almost, I don't want to call it a phobia, but it's been something that's been in the back of my mind. And I think it's why I don't drink that much anymore. Well, having kids definitely will change you. It does. It changes everybody to some degree.

Sure. I mean, think about me. I haven't stepped on the stage. From the time my daughter was born until they got to a certain age, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then once they saw those tapes, I mean, that is kind of out of the bag at that point. Yeah, that's true.

Aaron and Shiana experienced some problems in their relationship. She found photos of other women on Aaron's phone. When they were living in California, while Aaron was recovering from an injury, she called 911 because they got into a fight, and Aaron smashed his fist through a window. Their neighbors had also reported noise and domestic disturbances. She later testified, I made a decision that if I was going to move back in with Aaron, I was going to have to kind of compromise on his behavior, and that included infidelity and everything that came along with it.

She also said that she found a gun in their kitchen drawer a few months after their daughter was born. She didn't like having guns in the house. She later said in court, according to the Daily Mail, honestly, he's a grown man. I can't tell a grown man what to do. That's decisions that he has to make. I accepted the fact that he would grow up and mature within time. You know, I just stepped back for a minute and you were talking about how she was just going to have to go along with some things.

That's kind of a tough decision to make that you're going to say, you know what, I'm just going to go along with it because I'd rather be with him. than not be with him. Well, but it is a decision that many people have to make, right? If you're in a relationship and there are certain things about a person that they do that you don't like, whatever those may be, at some point, you have to make the decision. Yeah. I'm staying in this relationship. And if I am, I'm going to have to put up with X, whether that's cheating.

In this case, it's cheating. and it sounds like some domestic violence. Right. Some anger issues. Yeah. Now, what I thought was that it really seemed like his father was coming through. Yeah.

Shiana has said that she rarely asked Aaron questions about his alleged crimes, saying, I learned to keep my mouth shut in certain situations. I played my role, meaning I cleaned and I did everything else. There was no reason for me to ask any questions. On June 17, 2013, the body of 27-year-old Odin Lloyd was found in an industrial park, a mile from Aaron's mansion in North Attleboro, Massachusetts.

Odin Lloyd was found in a sand and gravel pit. He had been shot five times, including once in the back of the head. It was believed that he was killed between 1 a.m. and 6 a.m. He was not found, though, until 5.30 p.m. by a jogger. So let's talk about Odin Lloyd. He was a semi-professional football player. Odin was dating Shania Jenkins, Shiana Jenkins's sister. Odin worked for a landscaping firm and was an outside linebacker for the Boston

bandits, a semi-pro team. Evidence from the crime scene led the police to Aaron Hernandez. Five-45 caliber shell casings were found at the crime scene inside Odin's pocket. The police found a wallet and keys to a car that Aaron rented. So what they pieced together was that Aaron and Odin Lloyd went out to a club together on the night of June 14th. The police said that Odin Lloyd was last seen alive with Aaron around 2.30 a.m. on the 17th, according to Boston 25 news.

Okay. Doesn't make you look great. Doesn't make you 100% guilty, but police are going to want to talk to you. And if it is you, it seems like you're, we're pretty sloppy. Yeah, you're pretty cavalier. Yeah. About it. Aaron was questioned on June 18th.

Investigators were seen inside and outside his home. And that's something that, you know, you would know about if it was Mike Gibson. Right. Because nobody knows who Mike Gibson is. That's exactly right. The media is not going to descend on your home. but if you're this big time professional football player, it's probably going to get out pretty quickly. Yeah, you probably have Popsarazzi.

Popsarazzi? Did you just say Popsarazzi? I did. Okay. Yeah. Let's go with that. Yeah. But you have them outside your home probably just normally, you know, hanging out just to get some pictures of this star player.

Absolutely. Maybe the baby. They get paid for all kinds of different types of pictures. I still can't believe you said pops are. It's part of that song, you know, with what's the singer's name? How would I know? Because it's not even a real word. You're exactly right.

Okay. Yeah. On June 20th, the police searched Aaron's home with a warrant based on evidence that he destroyed his home security system, according to an investigator. The investigator and other law enforcement sources confirmed with ABC that the security system was smashed intentionally. A phone used by Aaron was also given to investigators in what was described as in pieces. Investigators wanted to know why house cleaners were hired to clean the mansion on June 17th.

Okay. So now we have some more stuff and it's not looking great. It's not. Why in the world would you intentionally smash up your, what I'm assuming is a very high dollar security system for an NFL star athlete. And then break your phone up into pieces and say, here you go. You want my phone? Here it is.

I hope you can find whatever you're looking for. Now, I doubt many star athletes clean their own homes. But you have to think that the timing of this is suspicious. Yeah. And it also says that they were hired. So, you know, he may have had a service, a regular service. He may have had somebody there full time. But it sounds to me.

like this individual company or whatever was hired specifically for that day. Yeah. And we also know that, you know, his wife did say she would clean the house. So maybe they didn't have somebody. So. And so this was completely out of the ordinary. And then along with the timing looks very suspicious. So they obviously had not ruled Aaron out as a suspect. The state police searched his home several times. Investigators also. searched three enterprise rental cars registered to Aaron. One had a mirror knocked off. This vehicle was found in an enterprise in Boston on June 19th. Sources said it was dropped off abruptly on the 18th with the broken mirror. Another rental vehicle was found near Odin Lloyd's body.

And then a third rental was stopped from pulling out of Aaron's driveway on June 18th. The occupants were questioned. The police searched the car that night. Does it seem strange to have three different rental cars at the same time? It really does. Why bad investigators wonder at the same thing. Now, I've heard of a lot of athletes doing strange things, right? They have a lot of money. They can afford to do what we would think of as maybe bizarre.

But three rental cars, you can only drive one at a time. Now, unless you're renting them for other people. Right. And maybe we'll get into that. On the week of Aaron's arrest, the police searched his condo in Franklin and found 45 caliber bullets. On June 26, 2013, Aaron was arrested and charged with first degree murder and five firearms violations. Less than two hours later, the Patriots announced his release from the team and his corporate sponsors dropped him. Not surprising.

No. No. Teams don't want to be associated with that. type of stuff. They don't want that negative publicity. And obviously, sponsors don't want any of that. Yeah, I think they want to separate themselves as quickly as possible. And it reminds me of something that's going on in the NBA right now. There's a young star by the name of John Morant. He's really good. Yeah. One of the best young basketball players. And twice in the last two months, he's been shown on social media in these videos brandishing a gun.

Oh. Here's a guy who's got the whole world in the palm of his hand. Yeah. But he feels the need to, and in one of them, he's riding around in the car. Okay. So I don't know what's going to happen to him, but the one thing I do know is that sponsors, they don't like that. No.

You don't see Michael Jordan running around brandishing guns. You don't see LeBron James, Magic Johnson. No. They don't do that type of stuff. because they want that sponsorship money. Absolutely they do. That's big time. The Patriot statement read,

a young man was murdered last week and we extend our sympathies to the family and friends who mourn his loss. Words cannot express the disappointment we feel, knowing that one of our players was arrested as a result of this investigation. We realize that law enforcement investigations into this matter are ongoing. We support their efforts and respect the process. at this time, we believe this transaction is simply the right thing to do. Now, the one thing that I always think about, it's easy to cut like the third string linebacker.

Of course. Nobody cares. But to cut a superstar, that's a big deal. Like you said, you've invested a lot of money. This guy's a great player. Right. My assumption is they must have been pretty sure that this was not going to go well. It needed to separate themselves from it.

Yes. Yeah. The public learned details about the murder at the arraignment. DA William McColley outlined the prosecution's evidence, which included shell casings, video surveillance, text, and a piece of chewed gum. Okay. All right. You don't hear that as introduced evidence all that often. We got your chewed gum here.

The following information comes from Business Insider. on the night of June 14th, Aaron and Odin were at Rumor, a club in Boston. Odin talked to a group of people. Aaron disliked. He got upset. The prosecution said that this was the motive for the murder. On June 16th at 902 p.m., Aaron texted two friends and said, Please make it back.

At 905, Aaron texted Odin Lloyd and said he wanted to come up to his house and spend time together. At 935, Aaron texted his two friends, Get your ass up here. He texted again at 10 to 23. Hurry your ass up. And apparently his friends arrived after this text. So, I mean, none of those texts really scream,

murder, or anything like that. No. But there seems to be some sense of urgency. Oh. Just don't know what it's around. Yeah. Get your ass up here. Hurry your ass up.

Later that night, Aaron. was captured by his home surveillance system, holding a gun and telling one of his friends that he couldn't trust anyone. The three men laughed at 121 a.m. in a rented Nissan Ultima. At 210 a.m., Aaron purchased gas, a pack of gum, and rolling papers. Do you know what rolling papers are? I do know what rolling papers are. Okay. Yeah. Just checking. Like those homemade cigarettes? Yeah, sure. Or other. Other types of cigarette? Yeah. At 2.32 a.m. the three men arrived at Odin's house and texted, we're here.

Odin's sister saw him get into the car. During the drive, Aaron told Odin he was upset about him speaking to the people at the club. Odin Lloyd's text messages were presented at the arraignment. At 307 a.m., Odin texted his sister. Did you see who I am with? At 311, he texted again. Hello, question mark. She responded at 319.

and said, my phone was dead, who? Odin answered at 322 NFL. He texted again at 323, just so you know. So it's an interesting back and forth. It is. He doesn't say Aaron Hernandez. Right. He says NFL.

But to me, it's the just so you know. Like he felt. He needed to tell someone. Yeah. Because maybe he had a bad feeling. Maybe he knew. he knew that Aaron was upset at 323 a.m. And this was right around the time that Odin sent that text.

Aaron's car was seen on security footage driving into an industrial park. This area is out of view of the cameras. And maybe that's where the just so you know came from, right? You're in a car with three other people. You're driving into an industrial park at almost 3.30 in the morning. Maybe you don't have a warm, cozy feeling about what's happening? No. No, I think you're worried.

Yeah. Some of the questioning might not be comfortable in the car. Yeah. Yeah, like it's leading down a bad path. I could see that. Between 323 and 327, Odin Lloyd was shot five times with a 45 caliber semi-automatic weapon. He was shot three times and was still a lot when he fell to the ground. He was then shot two more times in the back.

the car was seen leaving at 3.28 a.m. So that's kind of how they get the timing, right? Gets their 323. The car is gone by 328. So obviously in those four or five minutes is when Oden Lloyd was killed. Yeah. Aaron arrived at his home at 329. So this obviously was very close to his home.

At 3.30, the three men went inside. one of them was holding a semi-automatic gun. They went to the basement and turned off the security system. It was said that six to eight hours of footage went missing. On June 18th, Aaron traded the Nissan for a different rental car. The driver's side mirror was damaged. He claimed that he didn't know what happened. An employee found a shell casing and a piece of chewed gun under the driver's seat.

The casings matched casing. casings at the crime scene. And the gum, which was later found in a dumpster, presumably belonged to Eric. I mean, again, I think you called it cavalier earlier, right? Yeah. I mean, they do this hit. They don't clean up the shell casings at the murder scene.

They don't cruise through the car to look if there's anything in there before they return it. I mean, if we would just took, what, a few minutes, they probably would have found the casing. Maybe. You know, those casings, if you've ever seen a gun fired, you know, when that slide cocks back after the bullet comes out, that casing a lot of times goes flying. Yeah. And so I can envision a scenario where they're outside the car, maybe the driver's side door is open, shots are fired hitting Oden Lloyd. And depending on which direction the gun is facing, the casing, the casing comes. could have flown back into the car underneath the seat, they would have never known.

Well, that's true. And if you're not out there counting the cases you're picking up, based on how many shots you fired. Which is what an experienced person, a hitman would do. Right. But that's not who these guys are. No. Aaron Hernandez was not a hitman.

He wasn't a killer for hire. Nope. He's a guy who had a bad temper. And went too far. And went too far. I can't imagine that he thought. oh, you know what I should do? I should count the shots and find each and every shell casing.

After Aaron's arrest, more allegations came out against him. On June 13th, Aaron's former friend Alexander Bradley filed a lawsuit claiming that Aaron Hernandez shot him in the face. Bradley's lawsuit stated that he had become substantially disabled and would need care for the rest of his life. Bradley was shot in the face after partying with Aaron at a strip club. in Miami on February 13th, 2013, the two men got into an argument. After leaving the club, the group was driving towards Palm Beach when Aaron's gun discharged inside the vehicle.

The bullet went through Bradley's arm and hit his right eye. So I don't know if this was an intentional discharge or an accidental discharge. I'm getting a little bit of Pulp Fiction vibes here. Oh yeah. Where Samuel L. Jackson turns around. down, John Travolta hits a bump and the gun goes off and he shoots Marvin in the face. Yeah. But I don't know how it actually went down. Officers with the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office responded to an address in Riviera Beach and they found Alexander Bradley lying behind a John Deere store with gunshot wounds to the head

and hand. He was shot in the right temple and lost his right eye and the use of his right arm. At the time, Bradley said he didn't know who's. shot him. He described the assailants as Hispanic and black men. According to the Boston Globe, Alexander Bradley was a drug dealer and met Aaron while he was in college. He was Aaron's main marijuana supplier. Bradley became Aaron's paid assistant in 2010. The Globe wrote, in addition to supplying drugs, Bradley's job was to calm Hernandez, who often erupted into fits of anger and paranoia. Bradley later testified that one of his jobs was to get Aaron a silver revolver.

Interesting job description. Yeah. But I want to go back to, you know, this guy is shot in the face, loses an eye, but doesn't want to give up Aaron Hernandez. So tells the cops he didn't know who shot him. It would only come out later. Yeah, I mean, it was the guy that was writing his checks. Well, and he was also a drug dealer.

Right. So maybe that was part of it. And maybe he had a little bit of fear of what would happen to him. Yeah. Yeah. I think what keeps coming back around is that Aaron Hernandez had a serious problem with anger. And this here mentioned paranoia. I think that might play into the Odin Lloyd murder as well.

On June 27, 2013, 27 year old Carlos Ortiz was arrested. in charge with unlawful carrying of a firearm. Ortiz was one of the men, seen on surveillance footage at Aaron's home on the night of Odin Lloyd's murder. Ortiz was seen entering the home at 3.30 a.m. with a handgun. On the 28th, 41-year-old Ernest Wallace was arrested in Miramar, Florida. Ernest was the second man at Aaron Hernandez's house on the night of the murder.

He turned himself into the police. Ernest was charged with accessory, after the fact of murder. According to his attorney, he was visiting family at the time. He saw himself on TV and wanted to turn himself in. Right. That's going to be a very, very awkward situation. You're sitting on the couch with your family.

All of a sudden, your mug pops up on the TV saying that you're wanted for questioning. Yeah. You're making some phone calls. Grandma's not going to be very happy with you. No. On the 28th, authorities confirmed that they recovered. a silver Chrysler 300 with Rhode Island license plates that Ernest Wallace was last seen driving. The car was found in Bristol, Connecticut at Aaron's uncle's house.

The Boston police searched Aaron's home that same day. At this time, Aaron was being investigated for a drive-by shooting in Boston in the summer of 2012. He's being investigated for all kinds of things. Yeah, sounds like he definitely had some anger issues. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that. But again, you know, he's not a kid at this point. Yes, he's in his early 20s, but he's an NFL player, superstar. Making all this money. And just making horrible decisions. On July 16th, 2012, 29 year old Daniel Day Abraeu and 28-year-old Safiro Furtado were shot to death inside their car during a drive-by shooting. in the south end neighborhood of Boston. Dei Abraeu, Fertado, and three passengers were stopped at a red light when the shooting occurred. They were shot by someone in a silver SUV with Rhode Island plates.

One passenger was injured and two others fled the car without being injured. The police said they had the gun and vehicle but no motive. The two men who were shot were from Cape Verde. Dea Bresu was a police officer in Cape Verde. day and arrived in Dorchester, Massachusetts in 2008. Sefero Furtado had only been in Georgetown for five months. Neither man had any ties to Aaron Hernandez. But news reports came out and stated that both men were at the same Boston nightclub

as Aaron on the night of the shooting. One of them apparently bumped into Aaron and spilled his drink. Aaron was suspected of targeting them after they left. This incident occurred the week before Aaron started training with the Patriot. You're going to shoot somebody over bumping into you and spilling your drink? Yeah. It's called anger management there. On September 4th, 2013, the Hartford Curran reported that the authorities had surveillance video showing Aaron in the same nightclub as Deiabreou and Furtado hours before their deaths.

On the sixth, Aaron pleaded not guilty to the murder. of Odin Lloyd. On September 27th, a grand jury indicted Cheyana Jenkins, Tanya Singleton, and Carlos Ortiz. Ernest Wallace was immediately charged with accessory to murder after the fact. Ortees was initially charged with possession of a weapon. Without a permit, his gun charge was dropped and later replaced with accessory. Court records show that Ortiz told investigators he was asleep in the car, while Aaron and Wallace got out with Odin Lloyd. Prosecutor said at a hearing on September 26 that he changed his account and said Hernandez was alone with Lloyd. Sheana Jenkins was indicted for perjury and Tanya Singleton was indicted for conspiracy to commit accessory after the fact to murder.

The statement released by the DA's office provided no information about the basis for the charges. However, in August, the Boston Globe reported that prosecutors were investigating a phone call and text that Aaron allegedly sent Cheyana on June 18th telling her to get rid of guns in their basement. Security footage shows her carrying a large object consistent with the shape of a lockbox to the car, leaving and returning 35 minutes later without it. Tanya Singleton allegedly paid for a bus ticket for Wallace from Georgia to Florida, a week after the murder. Alexander Bradley appeared before a grand jury probing the 2012 shooting on October 8, 2013. On November 28th of that year, Aaron exercised his Fifth Amendment right in the Bradley lawsuit. You can see things aren't looking good. No, and it's almost like an avalanche, right?

They're coming at him from a bunch of different angles because they believe he's been involved in a bunch of different things. Multiple murders shooting a man in the face. On December 16th, 2013, Odin Lloyd's family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Aaron. On January 7th, 2014, information came out that authorities believed Odin Lloyd's murder was connected to the 2012 murders. So we might be getting in the area of motive here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we're going to be heading down that path. On January 16th, new details came out in an unsealed search warrant about why the Boston

police wanted to search Aaron's uncle's home. Boston officials were alerted to the house by the investigators working the Oden Lloyd case. They noticed an unused forerunner in the garage. which allegedly matched the SUV used in the Boston shooting. So I know it's a little convoluted, but we've got separate incidents here. We have the murder of Odin Lloyd. We've got this multiple murder that involved the drive-by shooting. And police are slowly connecting the two together.

And on February 26, 2014, The families of Furtado and Deiou filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Aaron. On April 11, 2014, Ortiz and Wallace were indicted in connection with Odin Lloyd's murder. On May 15th, Aaron Hernandez was indicted on two counts of first degree murder for the deaths of Daniel Deiabreou and Seferro Furtado, three counts of armed assault with intent to murder, and one count of assault and battery with a a dangerous weapon. So, you know, we talked about this avalanche. Well, now it's come down on it.

Oh, big time. He's got charges up to wazoo. Yeah. On May 28th, Aaron pleaded not guilty to the murders. And then on December 12th, 2014, a judge ruled that prosecutors in the Odin Lloyd case could not tell the jury about the other two murders or the last text Odin sent his sister. Well, his defense team has to feel good about that. Yeah, I'm sure they fought hard, right, to exclude any information about these other murders. It's bad enough what they have to defend,

but you put that into the mix. It's, it almost feel like it'd be impossible to defend. Yeah, yeah, but, so I understand excluding the information about the two murders. Sure. He's not been convicted. No. What I was not sure. sure about and really couldn't find the information to back it up was why the the texts were excluded from the jury we mentioned one of them said you know who i'm with NFL but maybe that wasn't good enough just so you know yeah now was it because he didn't come out and specifically say that he was with Aaron Hernandez maybe i think so but couldn't the jury digest that information and make of it what they want?

Maybe it would bias the jury. Well, yeah, and I think that's why the other two murders would get excluded. You don't want to bias the jury. I wouldn't have thought that the text messages would do it, but maybe they would. Aaron Hernandez went to trial for the murder of Odin Lloyd in January 2015. So, you know, like we said, it's like an avalanche has, you know, come down and landed on him, the murder of Odin Lloyd, the murders of these two other men in a drive-by shooting. He's facing, you know, a lawsuit and connection with shooting a man in the face.

My thought is, you know, it's hard enough to get out of one major charge. But when you have multiple things that are going to result in different trials, doesn't that exponentially up the chance that you're going to be convicted of something? Absolutely does. Because they're coming at you from all sides, different prosecutors, different jurisdictions. So I think this is a good spot to end part one. In part two of the Aaron Hernandez episodes will cover Aaron's two murder trials, his death. And the news that followed about his personal life will also get into some more talk about concussions, CTE. and what role that might have played in Aaron's behavior. But just kind of wrapping this one up, you know, I do think he had a rough childhood.

Yeah. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I think he witnessed some bad behavior. I think he experienced abuse, definitely physical at the hands of his father. Of course. He claims sexual abuse. Yeah. But we don't know who that would.

of who that person was, who that person was, there's no doubt he was an extremely gifted athlete. He had the talent. Oh, he was oozing talent. Sure. And not only that, but he proved it on the field. Yeah, and compensated for it. Yeah, he was really good. So much so that they rewarded him with this big contract. But to me, it's just like he was hanging around the wrong people. He definitely had anger issues. Yeah. It was said that he had some paranoia. And I think we'll talk about it more in part two, but I think it played a very large role in, you know, these actions that he took part in because bumping into you and spilling your drink. Okay, are you going to be slightly annoyed? Yes. Maybe you ask the person to replace the drink or whatever it is. You don't stalk them out of the bar. No. Follow them and then shoot through

their vehicle. Right. The guy's got all the money in the world. So it's not about money. Right. It's not about the money of the drink. No. It's about the perceived slight. Yeah. And it seems as though it just filled him with rage, with so much anger. I just wonder why he just couldn't let it go. He made this really great speech about since my daughter's been born, you know, I'm a changed person. I'm a grown-up man. None of this. No, but obviously that was just tall. Sure.

I mean, that's not the way it ultimately shook out. Because at the end of the day, why would you put your livelihood and your family's livelihood at risk over something so... Trivial. Yeah. Yeah.

And we're going to get into more about the motives for the murder of Odin Lloyd in episode two. But that's it for this first episode on Aaron Hernandez. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hi, it's Kimmy from Louisiana. I said I wasn't going to leave a voicemail until I got caught up.

But then I realized how cool it would be if I was listening and caught up to my own voicemail. So here I am. I love you guys. Team T. Kat. You should look into Shelly Notek. The case has a filial liking feel to it. She basically took people into, quote, unquote, help them and ends up killing them. There's an episode of Snack.

on her and I read a book written by one of her daughters. There's a lot of background information, a lot of, it would make a good episode. And I can't find any podcasts on it. So you would probably be interested in that. Thanks. Love you guys. All right. Love you too.

And we're definitely interested. We are. We'll put that on the list. Got to get it on the list. Thank you. I was listening to the Jeffrey Dahmer episode. This is Lori, by the way. And it made me think of a guy named Gregory Bowman, who's in,

prison in Illinois and claimed he was innocent. So they tested his DNA. Turned out he was not only guilty for what he was in prison for, but he was also a murder of Velda Rumfeld, one of St. Louis County's oldest unsolved murder cases. And he died on death row in Missouri. And he was insisting he was innocent and wanted his DNA tested. So keep your own time ticking. Thank you. Bye. Sometimes that test by DNA backfires. Well, but I think I've said this before. What do these people have to lose?

Yeah, if you're really innocent, then it's hopefully going to show that. Right. If you know you did it, you're already in prison anyway. Yeah. Maybe they'll mess up the test. Maybe it won't show something. There's not enough sample. Who knows?

And they'll have to let you out or something. You're just grasping its straws at that point. Right. But, you know, that is very interesting. A lot of times we talk about individuals being exonerated through DNA and also convicted. But what about having your DNA tested later and it connecting you to a bunch of other crimes? Yeah. But, you know, he was bound to die in prison anyway. Exactly. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Reedy from Illinois. We are about two months past. the Karen McCarran episode at this point, and I am still missing the sexy Gibby voice. Now, I obviously don't wish Gibby any ill will, but if he could find a way to cultivate that voice

and maybe do it going forward in future episodes, just saying it wouldn't be bad for business. But regardless, I love you guys. Been listening for years. I'll be listening for many more. Keep your head on a swivel and keep your own time ticking. I mean, is that what I'm sick or something? Yeah, when you were sick, people called it the sexy Gibby voice.

I see when I was all congested and... Yeah, they dug it, man, for some reason. What's up on Gibby's voice? All you need to do is go downtown, like to a bus station and just lick like a seat or a wall maybe. A seat? Yeah, where people sit, I guess. Why would I want to lick where their asses were? I don't know. Why not like a handle where their hands?

Okay, yeah, lick the handle of the, of the bathroom. Why the bathroom? Why not just like maybe a door into a building? I don't know. I'm trying to think of the nastiest thing. And look the little thing where they pushed their hand. No, because I want you to go to the bus station downtown because it's a funnier picture in my mind. I can see me being picked up and taken somewhere after doing something like that.

All right. Appreciate all the voicemails. Mailback. Amy sent us in these awesome. true crime themed bow ties, hair bows, dog bows from her Etsy shop, boaterful dreamer. They're pretty cool. Thank you, Amy. Some of them are police tape.

Some of them are like fingerprints. They're actually really neat. We're in one of my hair right now. Yes, you are. It looks very dainty. Very dainty. Very nice. All right, buddy.

That is it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.