True Crime All The Time - Aileen Wuornos Part2

Episode Date: September 21, 2020

Aileen Wuornos was a rarity in true crime, a true female serial killer. Wuornos murdered seven men in Florida between December 1989 and November 1990. Her story captivated many as authorities pieced together her murders. The state of Florida called her a cold-blooded murdered while Aileen portrayed herself as a victim who defended herself against men bent on hurting her.Join Mike and Gibby for the 2nd and final episode on Aileen Wuornos. In this second episode, we'll talk about Aileen's trials and appeals. We'll also discuss Aileen's increasingly erratic behavior and the circumstances surrounding her execution.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital ProductionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your math skills have global potential. As an actuary, you'll solve some of the world's most pressing problems while helping people to live better lives. Become an actuary through the society of actuaries and work anywhere in the world. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 201 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. How are you?

I'm doing good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. Good. I'm super excited for this part two. of Eileen Warnos. Yeah. Before we get into that, let's do some Patreon shoutouts.

All right. We had Terry Martin. Hey, Terry. Patrice Craig. Hey, thanks, Patrice. Alicia Imrey. Hey, I'mri. April Matthews jumped out to our highest level.

Oh, man. Thanks, April. Tamara Benton. Eugenia Green. What's going on, Eugene? Ryan Killian jumped out at our highest level. Hey, thanks for that, Ryan. We had April.

Hey, April. Lynn Minogue. What's going on, Minogue? Cheryl Marie jumped up. to our highest level. Hey, Cheryl. Angela Huerta. Hey, Horta.

April Nichols. What's happening in April? Belinda Morris. Hey, Belinda. Tamara Payne. Hey, thanks, Tamara. Alia Capadici. Oh, Capadici.

Nicole Kara Spruce. Hey, Nicole. Camilla S. What's going on? Camilla. Sue Lewis. Hey, Sue. Robin Hollis.

Well, thank you, Robin. Vivian Garacani. Ooh, Galacani. Carolyn. Carolyn. Carolyn. Carylid. Suzy Wood.

Thanks, Susie. Oki Nogorski. Ooh, okay. That's a cool name. Yeah, it is. And last but not least, Carolina Nigerra. What's up, Najera? And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Andrew Eastwood.

Hey, Andrew, thank you. So we appreciate all the new support, the continued support. We have some great PayPal donations as well, George Shaw. Hey, George. Rajesh Patel. Hey, thank you, Rajesh. Haley Sullivan. Hey, appreciate that, Haley.

And Rebecca Lazzardo. Oh, awesome. Lazzar tool. Yep. So thank you as well. Yeah. All right. We're jam packed, Gibbs.

So we got to hurry. We got to jump into this episode. We do. But first, let's talk about true crime all the time on salt. Yeah. We have a brand new episode out right now. We're talking about the disappearance and murder of Tracy Gilpin. So we're headed to Kingston, Massachusetts.

Yeah. This is a very interesting episode because number one, we talk about the unsolved. murder of Tracy Gilpin. We do. But at the same time, we discussed the solved murder of a young girl named Melissa Benoit. And there is a potential connection between the two cases that may lead to naming Tracy's murderer.

So some twist, turns, things take a while, but everything kind of comes full circle. It does. And makes for a very interesting episode that I think people want to. to check out. So for you folks out there that typically don't listen to unsolved, this is a good one to listen to. It is because there's some finality and then there's some potential finality in the unsolved portion. I'll just leave it at that. We don't want to give anything away. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? Man, I really am. I can't wait to hear this part. We are on to part two of the Eileen Warnow story.

In part one, we covered her childhood, her relationship with Tyrea Moore, and her killings. Eileen was arrested at the last resort bar and confessed to her crimes to save Todd. She gave confessions to investigators on videotape, but she said she acted in self-defense. She had a court-appointed attorney present who tried to limit what she said. But I don't think that she was all that interested. in taking that advice. She seemed very eager to talk when you watch these interrogation videos. She basically sat there, smoking cigarettes, and pretty calmly talked about how she had

killed seven men. In this episode, we'll get into her trials and her increasingly erratic behavior. We'll also hear from both Eileen and Ty Moore in clips, so let's get to it. After Eileen was arrested, but before she was even charged, there were all types of people give that were trying to cash in on the Warno story. She did as well. Sure. But that was prevented.

Right. Because you can't profit from your own crimes. Her initial public defender withdrew from her case after he was accused of trying to broker a deal with a Hollywood producer for Eileen. Eileen then requested a female attorney and was assigned a public defender named Trisha Jenkins. Now, Ty Moore signed a deal to sell the story. But on top of that, there were various law enforcement officials who attempted to sell their story of how they hunted down and captured the infamous Eileen Warnos.

again, everyone was trying to cash in on the Eileen Warnos media buzz. Yeah, which is pretty disturbing. It is. I think especially when you talk about people in law enforcement trying to cut deals in the middle of an investigation, the trial's not even happened yet. Right. I think people looked at that and said, hmm, yeah, something's a little strange there. All of this is going to come up at trial. You know it is.

Right. because the defense is going to say, now, did you have an interest in things going a certain way because that would be more beneficial to whatever deal you were working on? Exactly. Yeah. You could make that argument. It's definitely, for me, I think it's a conflict. Yeah, it's conflict of interest for sure.

Yeah. Now, with Ty, people made the same argument that, okay, did she say things that weren't true to make it more flamboyant, more sensational, right? The story. Because the more outlandish it is, the more it sells. Well, sure. Warnos made a lot of statements after she was incarcerated. From jail, she said, you know, after I killed the first couple, I thought about quitting, but I had to make money to pay the bills. And I figured at least I was doing some good killing these guys because if I didn't kill them, they would have hurt someone else. So she thought she was being the good person here. Yeah, almost as if she was doing the world

a favor, saving other people from these men. She was like Robin Hood. To me, it's a very interesting statement because I feel like on the one hand, she's saying she knew she was going to continue to kill, But at the same time, she's trying to portray the angle of self-defense that she's going to cling to for quite a long time. Yeah, I did it. But I did it because, hey, if I didn't do it, some other women were going to get hurt. They needed to die. I did it. And I took their money.

But what else were they going to do with that money at that point? She was charged and would go on trial first for the murder, robbery, and armed robbery. robbery of Richard Mallory. She pleaded not guilty to the charges against her. Her trial began on January 13th in 1992. The prosecutor in his opening statements said that Richard Mallory had no idea that the woman he picked up was a predatory sex worker who had slept with over 250,000 men. Oh, man. That's a huge number, man. It's a huge number, man. It's a huge number. It's kind of a mind-boggling number to be honest with you. He literally said these words in his opening statement. Now, I'm not sure where he got that number, but it's kind of a tough one to believe. I'm not saying

it couldn't happen, but if you sit down and do the math, which I did, it comes out to 34 men every single day of your life for 20 years. Yeah. That's a tall order. That's a tall order. I mean, Magic Johnson couldn't even. Well, I was going to say Walt Chamberlain. I remember one of them said they slept with all. Yeah, Will Chamberlain, I think at one point said he slept with like 100,000 women. And even that, you know, people did the math and was like, you know, that's like 10, 15 a day. I think it was. I don't remember how long over what period of time.

Again, I'm not saying it couldn't be done. It just seems very far-fetched. And also, I wish I could have figured out how he came to this number of 250. thousand. Did he just pull it out of thin air? He was very arbitrary. Yeah. Yeah. The prosecutor said that Warno shot and killed Mallory for his money, his car, his valuables, dumped his body in the woods under a piece of carpet. His contention was that she had gotten to the point where she was no longer satisfied with $20 here, $40 there. She wanted much more. She wanted it all. And she was willing to to kill to take it.

Well, 20, 40 bucks, that's not going to do much. Not if you're trying to keep the woman that you love in your life. Well, and let's be honest. And I think we touched on it last episode. The life that she was leading was a tough one, right? To make ends meet by, you know, working exits on the interstate, hoping somebody would pick you up and then essentially trying to figure out. if that person was interested in sex for money.

Yeah. That's a tough gig. It is a tough gig. I mean, you know, we're not talking about a $10,000 a night escort that people are trying to book. Right. She is really out there grinding. Yeah. Literally.

Literally. Yeah. And I think you can, from that, you can see where the prosecutor is coming from, scraping by, you're scraping by. The years are ticking. by you're getting a little older every year we all do it becomes harder and harder to do what she was doing and it has to wear you down man i just you know i think about that lifestyle that she was leading doing that every day however many days a week i just feel like it would have to grind you down to

a nub oh man i mean no doubt about it mentally physically emotionally emotionally every aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah. Roll it all into one. You certainly didn't get out of bed all happy and cheerful and like, I'm going to take the day today. Do you get out of bed happy and cheerful? Every day, man.

Do you really? I'm going to take the day today. Oh, not me. I'm like, damn, I want to go back to bed. I just can't wait to get out of bed every morning. But once I get up and I have my six cups of coffee, then I am ready to take that day. I don't know a few people that have to have their at least two cups of coffee. in the morning before they can function.

Dude, I drink two cups while I'm thinking about the rest of the coffee. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like an appetizer. You're probably still scratching yourself in the morning as you're drinking your coffee. Well, let's not get crazy. I'm not caveman. Eileen's defense attorney, Trisha Jenkins, said in her opening statements that Warnos was attacked by Richard Mallory.

She was terrified. And so she shot him in self-defense. She argued that Eileen couldn't go to police because she was a sex worker. And Richard Mallory was a businessman who would believe the story of Eileen Warnams. You know, that was one of the arguments that her defense presented. The prosecution brought a number of experts to the stand. And under Florida's Williams rule, they were allowed to present evidence of the other murders to show motive, intent, M.O.

This was huge because it meant that they were able to introduce a lot more evidence. Of course. And that's not always the case. I don't know how many different states have a similar one. This one in Florida is called the Williams rule. You know, in a lot of places, you're not allowed to present evidence of past misdeeds. Right. You know, you kind of have to keep it focused.

on the case at hand. Right. Can't dive backwards and talk about their character based on, yeah. And one thing I read about the Williams rule is you don't even have to be charged with that crime. If they just think you did it, right. They can present evidence. Now, it's got to be compelling evidence.

They just can't throw, you know, shit against the wall. Yeah, I mean, I have a little problem with that, you know, but if you were charged, convicted or anything. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm good with that. I'm just, you know, the fact that you were thought of a person of interest and here's why it's tougher.

Well, it is that. But it's, when I say compelling evidence, like they'll throw it out if it doesn't really speak to the fact, I think that you more than likely did whatever it is. They got that little checklist or check. Yeah,

I don't know exactly how it works. But it was important here for sure because you're talking about all of the pawn shop evidence, the things that were found in Eileen's storage unit, and testimony from experts about each murder. They had Eileen's videotaped confessions. That was huge. It had to be monumental. Yeah. Well, and again, because of the Williams rule, it wasn't just the portion of the interrogation tape related to Richard Mallory. It wasn't just the pawn shop items related to Richard Mallory. Yeah. It wasn't just what was found in the storage unit related to Richard Mallory.

You're piling in seven victims worth of evidence. That's tough to defend. It is. Yeah. And let's not forget, the prosecution had Ty Moore. And that was a big day in the trial. When Ty took the stand, she would not look at Eileen Warner's. Just did not want to look her in the eye at all.

I mean, you can look at all. at it a couple of different ways, but when it comes down to it, especially from, you know, Eileen's point of view, she felt betrayed. Oh, she had to, you know, giving herself up to save Ty and then to sit there in the courtroom and realize everything she did and said was for nothing. Yeah, because, you know, Ty's going to blast her. She's going to basically say what the prosecution needs her to say because if not, that immunity thing kind of goes away. Right. If you don't play ball, if they don't hear what they want to hear, I'm sure that was part of

the deal. That whole true love, ride and die stuff. It don't really happen in today's world, man. When you're up against that type of charges. And again, I think that's why you and I spent quite a bit of time talking about their relationship. I do think it was sexual in the beginning. Yeah.

It was probably hot and heavy for maybe six months a year or whatever. But they were together, I think, around four years. My understanding is the last three years. And I think Eileen even said it at one point during the trial. They were more like sisters than they were lovers. Like the sex part, I think kind of just went away. And they were friends slash sisterly. Yeah, I think Ty was right.

to exit that relationship, years and, you know, years before it ended. But if somebody's paying for everything you do. Sure. Okay. I'll hang around maybe. And I don't know her mindset. So some of this I'm putting on to her, but that's just kind of the feeling that I get. Yeah.

More testified that Eileen confided in her that she had killed Richard Mallory, but under questioning, said that Warnos had not mentioned anything about being attacked or raped. And that's important. But let's hear a short clip of tie on the stand. When she, uh, when he tells what she told it. Where was she and where were you, if you remember?

What were you all doing? Just watching TV? We're sitting on the floor watching TV. Okay. Were there any, uh, anything unusual going on at that time? Well, they just sit there in an apartment together watching some TV? No.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Can you describe her appearance at that time? She seemed fine. Anything particularly different or the same about her as when you had left her to go to work?

She was the same. Same basic physical appearance? Yes. She told you that there was something that she wanted to tell you. Correct. Can you tell the ladies and gentlemen, the jury, how that conversation began and what transpired? We were sitting on the floor watching TV, and she just said, come out and said, I have something to tell you.

And I ask her what. And she said that she had shot and killed a man that day. So that's our first chance to hear from Ty Moore. I think there's two important things there. Number one, the prosecutor gets her to say that Eileen told her that she killed a man. And then the second one is, did she look any different? Right. Because if Eileen had gone through the vicious attack and rape that she claimed she did, and we're going to detail it out here in a little bit, she would not have looked the way that Ty Moore is saying she looked.

Yeah, she would, you would have visibly seen the battle scars. Yeah, because, and again, we'll go through it in a minute, it's vicious. Her account of it. Yeah, and you'd think her demeanor will be off. Now, Eileen's defense attorney claimed that she had killed Richard Mallory in self-defense. She argued unsuccessfully to suppress the videotaped confessions. She tried to get them thrown out, but okay, that didn't work. And that was huge, right?

If she wins that battle, all right, maybe you got a chance. Right. But when you have a person on videotape who sat down with police and one by one said they killed these people and here's how I did it. And, you know, that's really tough evidence to get around. It was hard enough to defend one, but to have the six other confessions on there. Yeah. Well, and the fact, again, the fact that they were allowed to be introduced. Right. Even though technically right now, she's only on trial for the murder of Richard Mallory. Jenkins also argued that because Moore and some in law enforcement,

had either signed deals or they were working on deals to sell their story, they had a vested interest in sensationalizing Eileen Warnos as this big time murderer. So basically she's saying they're willing to say anything because that helps them get the deal. It helps them make the deal the deal bigger. I mean, let's face it, that story Gibbs would sell much better than one involving a woman. who killed to protect herself. Well, sure.

Because now she's a serial killer. Right. A woman serial killer. A female serial killer. Yeah. Against her attorney's advice, Warnos took the stand in her defense. And in fact, she was the only defense witness. So my assumption is her attorney was prepared not to call any witnesses because she didn't

want Eileen to take the stand anyway. You know, I always have a hard time with this, but, and I get it. They want to try to try to. tell their story. Yep. Right? They feel like the jury, the judge, no, people aren't hearing me. People don't understand what I went through.

I just got to get up there so I can tell them. And once they see me tell the story. Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that by using their own words, they can convince the jury to believe what it is their sake. I, I truly think that she told the jury that she killed Richard. Richard Mallory after he tried to rape her, she painted herself as the victim from her childhood all the way up to having to basically support and tend to every need of her partner tie.

At one point, she said of more, she wanted me out there working. I was her white slave. This is what she said. Right. She told the jury that Richard Mallory tied her to the steering wheel of his car, put a poured around her neck, violently raped her, and severely injured her. But she went on and said that he poured rubbing alcohol in her eyes, vagina, and anus to inflict even more pain.

And she said, this guy enjoyed it. This is what she told the jury. He enjoyed the torture. He enjoyed her moaning, her crying. He was a sadist, according to Eileen Warnoes. She told the jury that she thought she was going to die. And at one point, she sped in his face. She said that he asked her if she wanted to die.

And then he said, you're dead now. And she told jurors it was at that point. Gibbs, she decided right then, nope, I am not going to die. That's when somehow she was able to free herself, get to her gun, and shoot him multiple times inside the car. Then when he was able to get out of the car, she said he was still coming after her. So she had to shoot him a few more times. Then she said she covered his body up with a rug.

But she said she did it because she didn't want the birds to be able to get at his body. She was concerned about him. Yeah. So look, if someone's doing that to you, if he really did all that to her, you wouldn't give a shit about birds. or, varmins, any of that, right? I mean, you're not going to care. Your concern is to get out of that scenario as quick as possible.

And again, I think it's part of the problem of taking the stand. Right. You know, you're talking, you're talking, you're trying to get all these points across, but at some point you say things that just don't make any sense. Right. As you just pointed out. Yeah. If you were a juror and you heard that, those things will.

wouldn't line up, right? Vicious rape. This guy is torturing me. He's being sadistic. Now, yeah, I killed him, but then I just, I just couldn't imagine the birds pecking away at him. So I covered him up. Yeah, she just, she should just stop talking after she said, she shot him, right?

I mean, I get it. It was a 22. Sure, you're going to have to shoot him multiple times to maybe get him to stop. Possibly. Yeah. To stop pursuing. you. And to say that I put a rug over his body was to keep the birds away. I mean, it was just too much. Yeah. Right. I mean, you just, you can't square those, all of that up together.

But here's the thing. And I know you said it before, but by testifying, she opened herself up to cross-examination by the prosecution. And, you know, in all honesty, she didn't come across very well. The first part is usually pretty easy, right? It's your attorney asking you, questions. They're setting you up. They're lobbying you softballs. You both kind of know where things are headed. Right. But when cross starts, most people aren't prepared for that. No. And you know, this is what attorneys live for. They love when they get to cross examine you. Well, and she got agitated. She got angry at times. And I think the jury saw a little bit of the monster peeking out at certain points when she was up there on the stand, the prosecutor hammered her about why the violent

rape didn't come up in her confession to police or in her talks with Ty. So she admitted killing in her confession to police. She told Ty that she killed a man. But according to the videotape, and the videotape doesn't lie. And according to Ty, if you believe her, the rape and all that part was never mentioned. I really believe Gibbs, Eileen did herself much more harm than good by taking the stand. And that happens quite a bit. Yeah, I'm trying to remember more than a handful of times that it benefited. When somebody really pulled it off? Yeah. Well, we probably wouldn't know because we wouldn't have covered it. Well, that's true. Because if they were successful, then they wouldn't have been convicted. That's right.

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perfect therapist, go to Talkspace.com or download the app. Make sure to use the code T-Cat to get $100 off your first month and show your support for the show. That's TCAT and Talkspace.com. At one point, Eileen and the prosecutor, they got into this exchange about conventional. convicted felons, being allowed to carry guns. They got at each other a lot while she was on the stand. But let's hear this clip. So you think the convicted felons should be allowed to carry guns? A lot of them do turn into the Lord.

And a lot of them are very decent people and very straight forward people. So they broke the law. Everybody breaks the law. I bet you do too. And a guy you drive a car and pollute the earth. Some of them shoot men to death in cold blood, don't they? No, they don't. I didn't shoot anybody in cold blood

although I would have been out there decaying instead you've never shot anyone in cold blood that's right objection I don't have the heart to shoot somebody in cold blood you ever shoot a man in the back of the head because of a girl in your honor I'm not going to answer that question

and it does not be able to this case different circumstances to different reasons and circumstances and I don't need to answer to that. It has nothing to do with Richard Mel. Do you like to answer it? No, I'm not going to.

Lee, I'm instructing you not to answer any questions about anything other than Richard Maurer and asking you not to talk about it. So the reason why I thought that clip in particular was so interesting, you hear Eileen's defense attorney object. Right. And there was a lot of that. She objected to almost everything. that the prosecutor asked.

But the interesting thing there is that the prosecutor kept weaving in. Sure. Little things about some of the other murders, not Richard Mallory, but some of the other ones. We know that one of the victims was shot in the back of the head. Right. You heard him ask that question. And he got her to bite on it. Mm-hmm.

Right. She thought she's being smart by saying, I'm not going to answer that. I don't need to talk about that here now. It's not related to it, but she's talking about it. It doesn't pertain to this case. Right. Well, what's that mean? What pertains to something else?

Right. So it's in the jury's head. Yeah. And, you know, I think her defense attorney tried her very best to keep her from talking about those things. It was almost like she just couldn't help herself. She wanted to spar. Right. With this prosecutor.

Why I don't know. I mean, she was not. extremely intelligent person. But I think that's what she's done all her life. She's always tried to talk her way in and out of things. Yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. She has in her own mind on how it really played out, even though it's not how it played out. Well, think about this. She was a salesperson. Yes. You would have to look at it that way. She sold her services. Right. Every day. Yep. And if she wasn't able to sell, maybe she didn't eat that day. Right.

She didn't have a roof over her head. You know, after a while, a good salesman just thinks, well, they can just bullshit anybody. Right. And talk you into or out of whatever they want. It took the jury under two hours of deliberation to find Eileen Warnos guilty of the first degree murder and armed robbery of Richard Mallory. Some jurors Gibbs later said that they just didn't believe. Eileen's claim of self-defense, mainly because she didn't mention it one single time on the videotaped confession that she gave to police after her arrest.

If that's how it really happened and you're being called in to answer for murders, wouldn't that be one of the first things that you would say? Yeah. It was self-defense. This guy, you know, he attacked me. He raped me. He brutalized me. didn't talk about it one time. I mean, she really was focused on clearing Ty's name. Yeah. And that comes up a lot in the research. And I think even Eileen said it at some point during the trial, it just wasn't on

her mind. Her sole focus was to confess to these crimes, get tie out from under, you know, any type of prosecution, get her free and clear. That's what she has said. That's how she's tried to explain why she never brought it up. But again, the jury didn't buy it. At the sentencing hearing, her defense team relied pretty heavily on her childhood to help sway the jury to their side. And there was a lot at stake.

I mean, this jury was deciding between two options, either giving Warnos, a death sentence or a life sentence in prison with no parole. At the time they were deciding her fate, only one woman had been put to death in the United States since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976. The defense talked about how Eileen's mother had abandoned her when she was an infant, how she was raised by her grandfather, who she thought was her father. Defense witnesses testified that Eileen's grandfathers, father was an alcoholic who was both physically and emotionally abusive. So they didn't have any

witnesses at the actual trial. Right. But at the sentencing hearing, that's where you bring in the family and say, oh, she grew up rough and kind of, you know, try to sway the jury against the death penalty. And she did grow up rough. She did. Yeah, she had a terrible childhood. But does that mean she can't be fully accountable for her actions? Well, I can tell you this jury didn't think so. Right. But I will say, her attorney, Trisha Jenkins, gave some very impassioned closing arguments. She really tried hard to save her client from the death penalty.

She had some psychologists who concluded that Eileen suffered from borderline personality disorder at the time she committed her crime. I could agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to hear more about some of her. mental health issues later on, but they said that could have accounted for her constantly changing stories. They also said she exhibited evidence of brain damage. Now, the prosecution countered by bringing Eileen's uncle, Barry Warnose to the stand. He testified that his father was not an alcoholic,

that he had not beaten or mistreated. Eileen is a child. So again, who do you believe? I don't I think when we wrap up this case, we'll get into it a little bit more. I think some of the water here is a little murky with her past. Some of it's pretty well documented. But, you know, some of it comes from her. And anytime you have that and you have other family members who are disputing that, it makes it murky. It makes it really murky.

And she could be right. And maybe they're trying to protect the reputation of that other person, maybe. Still murky. Still murky. the jury deliberated for an hour and 48 minutes before recommending that Eileen be put to death, they weighed her abusive childhood, her low IQ of 81, which is important because it's above that 70 threshold that you see a lot of times. Right.

They weighed her mental health. But in the end, they weighed, I think, more heavily that she had previous felony convictions and that she committed murder, number one, during the commission of a robbery. Number two, in order to avoid arrest. Three, it was heinous and cruel. And number four, it was cold, calculated, and premeditated. I think those things outweighed all of the other factors they were looking at. In the end, it was a unanimous decision, 12-0, which many of the papers called pretty

rare. I saw one statistic that said less than 10% of cases where somebody gets the death penalty, it's unanimous. There's always somebody that says, or at least one or two people that say, no, I can't do it. I can't do it. Yeah. You don't need it to be an all or nothing deal, right? It's a majority situation. So to go 12-0, at least according to what I read, pretty rare. Doesn't happen all that often. What says alive? the jury went straight across the board like that. Yeah, I would agree with you because they were the ones that set through every day of the trial. They saw all the evidence.

And, you know, when it was all said and done, not a single person could say that they did not believe she deserved to die for what she had done. Later, the judge followed the jury's recommendation ordering Eileen Warnos to be put to death for her crimes. After the sentencing, as police were leading her to a police car outside, she went into a tirade shouting the media convicted me. She was waving frantically. As you are right now. Yeah, with my hands in the air. Yeah.

And then even when she got inside the car, she was still shouting. She was gesturing wildly, but no one could hear what she was actually saying. And that's a hallmark of warn us, right? We're going to see that down the road. road time and time again. She was known to fly off the handle pretty easily. Yeah, she was known to blurt out some pretty bizarre comments. And we'll hear some of those as we go along. But authorities weren't done with Mylene, right? She faced charges in five of the six other murders. She was never charged with the murder of Peter Seams because his body was never recovered. Now, during her time in

prison. Warnose befriended a Florida woman named Arlene Prawl. I think Prawl became her friend as well as some sort of spiritual advisor. But this woman too was accused of trying to profit off of Eileen's story. And the two later had a falling out. But Arlene did help hire a new attorney for Eileen, a guy by the name of Brian Glazer. And Gibbs, this is a guy that has come under attack over the years by some for the way that he handled her case. Yeah. When you talk about some of these other murder charges, she originally pleaded not guilty. But very quickly, her plea was changed to no contest. A lot of people have been critical of Glazer about that saying that that was his doing. Right. You know, there are people that

have said he took this case just for the publicity. He really wasn't in it to try to help her or save her. Again, I don't know. These are just comments that, you know, you read and papers and in different places, criticisms of him. Now, we had a good friend of the show and board certified forensic psychologist named Allison. She sent me some interesting documents.

She's had a fascination, too, with the case of Eileen Warnos. One of the documents was a 1992 psychological evaluation performed at the request of Brian Glazer by one of the same psychologist who had examined Eileen prior to her first trial and diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder back then. The document states that during this newer examination, Ms. Warnos became increasingly paranoid and manifested a full-blown delusional system. At this time, she is exhibiting a fixed delusional system, which suggests that she perceives her former attorneys, as well as her present attorney, as part of a conspiracy.

In conclusion, it's this examiner's opinion that Ms. Warnos is suffering from a delusional disorder, persecutory type. In view of this evaluation, it is, is this examiner's opinion that Ms. Warnos is incompetent to proceed, particularly in that her ability to rationally participate in plea bargaining is significantly impaired. It's a huge statement. It is because of what we know happened, right? She pleaded no contest to these murders.

So Brian Glazer had this in his possession, but yet still moved forward with a guilty plea in the spring of 1992 and didn't really ask for anything didn't ask for the death penalty to be waived didn't ask for anything like that he just basically got her to you know plead no contest you're guilty there's definitely an error on his part well that's the way people view it now i don't know how much of that was him i don't know how much of that was mornos just saying you know I'm done with this. I don't want to deal with this. I just want to get it over. But again, that's why a lot of people have questioned him, criticized him over the years. But here's a clip of the judge, handing down her sentence for three of the murders. I sentence you in case number 91-463

to death for the murder of Troy Burris. Case number 91-304. I sentenced you to death for the murder of Charles Humphreys. Case number 91. 1-12 Citrus County case number. I sentenced you to death for the murder of David Spears. Thank you. And I'll probably see, I'll be up in heaven while you all rotten in hell. We will handle that. Okay, there will be an automatic appeal.

You have the right to an appeal. Mr. Glazer, is that going to be handled by you or the public defendant? May your wife and kids get raped. I would ask that you would point the public defendant's office. Okay. I would appoint the public defender's office to handle the appeal. There's one other thing that I want to say that I think needs to be said. I know I was raped.

You weren't nothing but a bunch of stumped. Therefore, these proceedings are now concluded. Putting somebody who was raped to death. Fucker. Now, if you couldn't hear it, she said some pretty rough things to officials in that courtroom. Gibbs, she said that she hoped that their families got raped in the, Arce. And the took us.

Yeah. That's rough. That is rough. Who would wish that on another person? Well, surprising for her to wish that on somebody. If she had experienced that same, why would you wish that on an innocent person, someone's family? They're, you know what I mean? Well, she's not viewing them as innocent.

She's viewing them as the people that are railroading her into the prison system. And I'm using air quotes. The conspiracy here. Yeah. This is where the whole conspiracy. thing comes in. Then as they're walking her out of the courtroom, she flipped off the judge and called him an MF her. Hopefully everybody heard that. Yeah. Yeah. But here, she already had a death sentence. She just got three more. Do you really have to watch your P's and Q's at that point? Or are you pretty

much free to say whatever the hell you want? Yeah, you're pretty much free to say whatever you want. Yeah. I mean, what else? What can they do to you? Yeah. Is anybody going to think worse of you? You've, you've murdered. seven people. Right. You're not going to begin now by being good, but I mean, it's just, it adds to the drama of her story. It does. It does. And that's why I wanted to play it. I want everybody to hear it. In June of 1992, Eileen pleaded guilty to the murder of Charles Karskadden. And then in February of 93, she pleaded guilty to the murder of Walter Antonio. She received two more death sentences. So she got six in total. Tough to come back from that. Yeah. It's probably she didn't decide to go ahead and represent herself at this point.

That would have been the only thing that would have made this better. Yeah. That would have been a spectacle to beat all spectacles. You know, over the years, she's had a number of automatic appeals because of her death sins. One of the big arguments centered around ineffective assistance of counsel. you that a lot. We do. And one of the big issues argued was that her defense attorneys didn't find out that Richard Mallory had a rape conviction on his record, which could have potentially bolstered her argument of self-defense. We talked about it in episode one. Yeah. When we talked about Richard Mallory that he was convicted of rape in another state, her defense team didn't know it. And you would think that would be something not that hard to find out.

So I get that argument of ineffective assistance of counsel. Right. She also argued that her attorneys had not done their job in presenting evidence regarding her competency to stand trial. And again, I think you can make an argument on both of those issues. But here's the thing. I don't know if it would have changed the outcome at all. It's a good argument to make, but you still, you know, have to get around the video confessions.

That's a tough one for me. You still have to get around the pawn shop evidence, the storage unit evidence, the fingerprints, tie more statements, all of that. And her going on the stand. And her taking the stand and, you know, kind of hurting herself. But as the years went by, Eileen's behavior became increasingly erratic. She fired a number of attorneys. And then she just dropped all of her appeals in 2001. You know, we'll play a couple of more clips later on, but there's a lot of footage of

Eileen Warno's, especially in the two documentaries made by Nick Broomfield. And when you watch those Gibbs, it's hard not to see that over time her mental state deteriorated significantly. And for those that have watched them, they'll understand what I'm talking about. about. He had just unbelievable access to her over a number of years. And you can kind of see through the two documentaries how much she changed. Yeah. You can also see it in the letters that she wrote her one friend. Yes. Dawn. Dawn. She became paranoid, delusional. I mean, you know, she thought there were these huge conspiracy theories. Everyone was spying on her. Everyone was out to

get her. She said that police knew who she was after the first murder, but they let her keep killing so that they could profit off the story of capturing her. Yeah, we know you committed this murder, but we're going to wait to you commit six more. Then we're going to get you. That's right. That's when we're going to get the big payday. Not one day sooner. It's got to be seven in total. Exactly. That's the magic number, I guess, that she thought they needed to have. Now, I'm sure that that thinking was caused by the fact that some of these people did try to sell their story. Right. So there's some basis to her conspiracy theory. Right. But it's still really far-fetched to think that the police knew she was killing were aware of it and just let her keep doing it time and

time again. And then after the seventh one, they said, you know what, we better put a stop to this. Yeah. I think we're good now. This erratic behavior. came out in some of her appeals and motions that were filed. But like I said, by 2001, she had given up and was actually calling for her own execution. Now, it didn't stop her from continuing to file grievances against guards and pretty much anyone that she thought was out to get her. At one point, she had filed so many different things that officials appointed an attorney to represent her in all these different claims that she was making. So this attorney met with her a few

times and then all of a sudden she refused to see him. And I guess Gibbs, this guy was so taken aback by her demeanor that he actually wrote a letter to the Florida Supreme Court expressing his concerns about her mental capacity. But Eileen wrote her own letter to the Florida Supreme Court in which she said that she seriously hated human life and would kill again if she could. She also told the judge, there's no point in sparing me. It's a waste of the taxpayer's money. I'm sick of hearing this. She's crazy stuff.

Yeah. I'm competent, sane, and I'm telling the truth. Yeah, I don't think she really liked that people were constantly talking about her. And thinking that she was mentally ill. Right. Even though, you know, if you want to be able to. watch the videos, if you, you know, read the letters. Man, it's, it's hard not to think that some some pretty serious mental health issues were at play. My thing is, when did it start? I don't think

there's any doubt it got worse as the years went on. When she was in prison, it seemed to get worse and worse. In 2002, as Eileen's execution date approached, one of the issues that remained was whether or not her mental health issues should prevent her from being executed. And there were a number of anti-death penalty groups that felt that she shouldn't be because of these issues in September of that year, I believe prompted by the attorney's letter that I talked about, Florida Governor Jeb Bush granted her a stay of execution and ordered a mental health examination to determine if she was competent to be executed. So they had three different psychiatrists appointed to examine her.

And all three of them came to the same conclusion. She was competent to be executed. Well, I think that's the state's duty to make sure before they go any further. Yeah, I think it is. But I guess the problem that I have is, okay, you have some mental health professionals saying, you know, we're diagnosing her with this, this. this and this. And then you have others who are saying, well, she's competent to stand trial. Right.

Is it because some are hired by the defense and some are hired by the state? Right. So you would, you would hope not because you would think a professional gives their opinion, regardless of what side they're on. But I kind of not naive enough to think that that's always the case. Who pays their bills? Well, and the other thing is they could have said, yeah, She has this. She has that. We see it. We see where the diagnosis comes from.

But at the end of the day, we're still saying she's competent to be executed. They weren't saying that she didn't have mental health issues. Right. All they're saying is that she's competent to be executed. Now, how they came to that decision, I don't know. But at the end of the day, three different doctors came back with the same conclusion. So she's going to be executed. right she's found competent the stay is lifted i lean declined her last meal which in florida at the time

she could have had anything she wanted totaling up to twenty dollars and that's like uh 16 bags of twizzlers the smaller bags or i can get the the uh big bags i could get like five big bags of twislers and just sit there and eat them until they're all gone you could get like a hundred things of rama noodles. I think it's, ramen noodles are about 19, 20 cents a pack, or they were. Even all that ramen noodle, it's probably going to kill you anyway. Yeah, that's a lot of salt. That is. You should not do that. No. I'm not advocating for that. It's not good. But, you know, $20 in early 2000s. Yeah. You could get a bunch of Big Macs, you get a bunch of burgers, fries, like, Cokes. You can get like 19 tacos and a Coke. Yeah, back then you could. Now a taco is like almost $2.

I know. If they're still on the menu. So not to get off track, but I went to go get a taco salad the other day. Right. Because it's really the only thing that Taco Bell sells that's semi-healthy. Yeah. If you don't eat the shell. Right. Gone. They don't serve that anymore. That's too healthy. We got to get rid of that. But she just drank coffee. That was it. Well, you would want your coffee. I would, but that's not all I'm having. No. The night before her execution, she visited with her childhood friend, Don Botkins, who you talked about. Don later said that Eileen was in good spirits. She was happy.

She was laughing. And she said that she was ready to leave this earth. I'm sure when she thinks about her time on this earth, I don't know how many good thoughts she's going to have about it. Well, I think there's a couple of different ways you can look at it. Number one, she had a very hard life. It was a hard existence. I know I keep saying it, but I do think it was a daily grind just to survive.

So, you know, at some point for her, was there a resignation that, you know what, I'm tired. I'm ready to go. I don't know. I don't know what was going through her head. But on the morning of Wednesday, October 9th, 2002, Eileen was strapped down onto the lethal injection table. There was about 30 people in the audience. She smiled at them. And then she made her final statement, which was, I'd just like to say, I'm sailing with

the rock and I'll be back like Independence Day with Jesus, June 6th, like the movie, Big Mothership and all. I'll be back. That's a lot of stuff weaved into one statement. I literally don't know what any of it means. She's talking about she's going to rise up like Jesus did, but also why she's on that big old ship up there with Will Smith. Yeah. I mean, I literally, it sounds like she says the movie.

I'm assuming she's talking about Independence Day, the movie. Right. It came out in 1996. Maybe she watched it in prison. I don't know. You know, what does sailing with the rock mean? Is she talking about like the rock, the movie star? I don't think the rock was a movie store back then.

Can you smell what the rock is cooking? Yeah, he wasn't cooking nothing back then. I just, I didn't understand it. I'm sure it obviously meant something to her. At 9.30 a.m., she was administered the cocktail of drugs. She stopped moving about two minutes after the drugs entered her system and was pronounced dead at 9.47 a.m. She was 46 years old.

Eileen Warnos was the 10th woman to be executed in the U.S. West since 1976 and only the second woman in Florida. So Gibbs, I read that officials at the prison, they cordoned off two different areas. And I think this was pretty normal, right? You have one area for the anti-death penalty folks. You have one for the death penalty supporters. There was a whole bunch of people that showed up in the camp of the anti-death penalty. Right. Two people showed up on the other side. It was a 77-year-old man and his 49-year-old son. And apparently, they tried to attend as many executions as they could to show their support in Florida. The father's other son was murdered years earlier by a man named Edward Dean Kennedy, who was executed in 1992.

The reason I brought it up is because I think it shows you the different sides. Right. There's a whole bunch of people that are anti-de. penalty. I get it. I understand the reasoning behind it. And then you have a guy like this who lost his son to some type of murder. The murderer was executed. He's in favor of it. I get that too. I can see both sides of it. Oh, me as well. And I don't think you can judge him for wanting that. No, it's interesting because you always see, or I shouldn't say always, normally you see many more people coming out on the anti side.

Right. Not too many people coming to say, yeah, you know, there have been. You look back at like Ted Bundy or something, there were a lot of people there cheering and hollering and so pop culture wise. There have been a few movies, some documentaries made about Eileen Warnos. There was a TV movie made where Gene Smart, you remember designing women? I do not. You don't?

It was like Gene Smart, Annie Potts from Ghostbusters, Delta Burke. Okay. They were like interior designers or something. Southern women? Yeah, and there was one other one that was real Southern. She had a Southern accent. I can't remember her name. I think I kind of remember that now.

It was a show that ran for a little while. Yeah, I didn't watch it every time it came on, settled on the couch, eating popcorn now. But she played Eileen Warnos in the TV movie. Okay. Gene Smart did. And then, of course, you have the movie Monster. right, where Charlize Dron played Warnos and Christina Ritchie played Tye, although they used a different name, I think.

Right. I liked that movie, but I remember when it came out thinking that, man, Charlize was such a strange choice to play Eileen Warnos. You have this woman who's a movie star, she's a model, she's on these commercials, right, for perfume and fancy things, playing the part of a woman who, as we've described, lived a very hard life. Right. And when you see pictures of her, she looked extremely haggard.

Oh, yeah. I use that word. Yeah. Because I think she had led such a hard life. She did. Yeah. You know, that lifestyle with drinking and smoking. Yeah.

And we didn't even really talk about that much, but she did drink a lot. Right. Actually, her and tie both. They drank quite a bit. At one point, I think Eileen said that they drank almost everything that she made. Yeah. They just would go to bars and drink it up. That's not good for your skin, man.

No, but then I saw the movie, right, Monster. And I was like, damn, is that really sure? He's there. There's no way. That's her without no makeup on me. And then, you know, so whoever was in charge of the makeup on that movie should have won some big award. an Oscar, whatever. Maybe they did. I don't know. But I remember I watched it maybe last year with my wife and daughters. And I had to pull up IMDB just to prove to them that that was really her. They would

not believe me. Yeah. That's how good the makeup was in that movie. You know, she was pretty good in that movie. I thought, I mean, she won an Oscar for best. She did a really good job. Actress. She won a Golden Globe. She won a SAG Award, so people really thought she did a, did a bang up job. But for me, again, it's the two documentaries from Nick Broomfield that really catapulted my interest in Eileen Warnoes. One is called Eileen Warnose, the selling of a serial killer. And then later on, he did one called Eileen Warnos, Life and Death of a Serial Killer. I remember watching the first one. Gibbs, it must have been 25 years ago. Right.

And I was just riveted. I remember that. He had such access to her. And the things that she says in both documentaries, they're mind-blowing. They really are. So let's play a clip from one of Eileen coming clean. I cannot go in the execution chamber and die in the execution chamber as a liar. And I cannot go in the execution chamber and be executed.

under the devil. I have to come clean and cleanse my spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. I killed those seven men in first-degree murder and robbery. As they said, they had it right. It's serial killer. Not so much like thrill-kill. I was into the robbing biz. I mean, you know, serial killers are in this thrill-killing jazz. I was into the robbing, just and eliminate a witness. But still then again, I got a number, so it's serial killer. you know, obviously from that clip, that is shortly before she's set to be executed. And I said coming clean because, you know, for the, for most of her time, she had stuck with that story of self-defense, rape, assault, and I had to defend myself.

Well, and then she comes out and says that and pretty much reverses it, you know, does a complete 180. Well, it was time for her to get right. Now here's a clip of Eileen that demonstrates to me what her mental state was like towards the end of her life. I'm all right with it. Hey, I'm ready to go. Hey, I was tortured at BCI. They had the intercom on in the room and they kept lying that it wasn't on. And they were using sonic pressure on my head since 1997.

And I think they had some kind of eye in the cell. I'm not sure, but every time I started writing something, it went up higher. So I'm thinking that probably had the TV rigged. The TV or the mirror or something was rigged. They got a huge satellite on the compound. After they put the huge satellite on the compound, it could have been either rigged to the TV set

or the mirror or something. Because the electrician, when he put the mirror on the wall, he said, doesn't that look like a computer? The back of it, and he stuck it to the wall. It was crushing my head in. They were using sonic pressure. continually. Pressure.

Sonic pressure. That's just a small piece. I mean, she, there's a lot of rants. Right. From Eileen that kind of follow that same line of thought. And it's out there. I mean, I don't know how else to say it. Yeah.

Well, again, it wraps around that conspiracy theory that she had. Yeah, she had it. And I think it just got worse and worse over time. I would encourage everyone to try to find those two documentaries. They're worth watching. Nick was the last person to interview Eileen before her execution. And he told reporters outside the prison afterwards, my conclusion from the interview is today, we are executing someone who is mad.

Here's someone who has totally lost her mind. And I think, you know, from some of those later interviews in his documentaries, it's hard not to think that Eileen Warnos was pretty seriously mentally ill. Either that or she was putting on a show worthy of a Charlese-like Oscar performance. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the, you know, the first statement there. I do too.

Gibbs, I think when you look back at Eileen Warno's, you see a woman who had a traumatic childhood. Again, it's hard to fully know how much actual physical, sexual abuse she suffered, but it is well documented that she was sexually active at a very early age. I think some of that was consensual, if you want to call it that, is a way for her to get things she wanted. I think she's even admitted that. But I don't believe it all was. I think she was taken a of at a young age by boys in town, maybe by some men in town. And of course, if what she says is true by people in her own family, she was definitely on her own very early on having to figure out how to fend for herself and survive. And, you know, she went with something that had worked

for her before, which was providing sexual services for money. Right. I guess the question I have, regarding the murders is, and maybe it's a couple of questions, but did she commit them to try to keep Ty more from leaving, meaning she needed to get money or else Ty was going to leave her? Or did she just decide that it was getting too hard to survive on what she was making day in and day out? And she thought, man, this is an easier way. I can get a lot more money. I think you could argue either way. And maybe it's a combination of both, too. I would lean more towards that. That was a combination of both. And then I guess the other thing that just popped into my head as a question is, okay, she was diagnosed with a number of mental health issues. How much of that played into

what she did? If you believe she had a personality disorder, you know, that certainly could have factored into her committing those murders. Yeah, I get, yeah. Yeah, I guess you're right. I just, I'm not exactly sure how, right? A lot of people are diagnosed with personality disorders or, you know, different types of mental health issues. They don't feel they need to kill. So what was it about the personality disorder that would have driven her to kill? I guess that's the question I have. The problem is I don't have the answer. It's, it's a question that I don't know how to answer. Yeah. And then I think the other thing that people will debate is, you know, whether or not she should have been executed, not for what she did.

Well, you're going to have those people that just don't believe in it, period. Right. But more so because of the things that she was diagnosed with, should she have been executed? Because there's a lot of people that do not believe she should have been. They don't excuse her crimes. They don't think she should have ever been let out of prison. Right. They just think that it's wrong to execute people with the mental issues and capacity that she had at the time she was executed.

Yeah. So you're going to have those arguments as well. And maybe today she wouldn't have been executed. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. But that's it, Gibbs for our two-parter on Eileen Warnos. Like I said, man, I'm ready for 200 more.

Let's do it. Actually, $199 more. $199 more. And that's it. Once we get to $400, that's it. No way, man. We will do it as long as people listen. I will say that.

As long as we can hold out. Now, we need to get through this 2020, this pandemic. We need some advertising because we're hurting bad. But, you know, it is what it is. Everybody's hurting. Oh, big time. We're all trying to make it through. We've got some voicemails.

You want to hear those? Yeah, I see them. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Emma calling from Stroud in the UK. I'm the owner and maker of Silver Spot Ceramics. Check me out on Instagram. And loads of my pots and mugs have been made while listening to you guys. You make the hours go really quickly.

I've just got up to date, which I'm quite upset about, but I'm just about to start on Unsolved. So I'm hoping for another great ride there. Just to let you know, I actually grew up in Gloucester, not very far away from where Fred and Rose West committed their horrendous crimes. And it is actually a family rumor that when my mom was leaving college once, Fred West stopped and asked her to babysit. She would have been around 16, 17 at the time. She did politely refuse because I'm sure he looked a bit weird.

Anyway, just wanted to let you go and I guys know it's another connection there. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Bye. That was like the clearest audio. Well, you know why? Because she recorded that on her computer and emailed it to me. Ah. When you're international, a lot of people do that because it's free.

Well, that's a good way to do it. It is a good way to do it. Yeah. And, man, talking about her mom making a probably one of the best decisions that she ever made. Yeah. So do you think she had the little spidey sense? Maybe. And something told her run, run away.

Yeah. Because, you know, if you remember, that guy was a little strange looking. He was. He was. Yeah. I mean, let's face it. You know, he was no Ben Affleck. He was no Mike Gibson.

Yay. Easy now. Hi, this is Susan over in Illinois. I'm a huge fan of you guys, and I always look forward to listening to true crime all the time. And I'm supposed, I am not able to get it on Stier this week. So I don't know if that's a picture problem or if maybe I missed it that you guys weren't doing them this week. I'm not sure. But anyway, I just thought I would let you know.

Thanks. Bye-bye. Well, I bet she found them by now. Yeah. So we did get a lot of messages. I got emails. We got messages on social media about Stitcher. And what I have said to everyone is, and I think there's a misconception, right? We don't post or upload the podcast to all these different places. Right. There's one main feed that we upload and then all the different pod catchers or podcast players pull from that feed. Right. So if one of them has it and one of them doesn't, that's not us. It's just Stitcher having a problem. I don't know what it was, but there obviously was some problem.

And I heard later on from somebody else that said there were some other podcast, too, that weren't showing up when they were supposed to. And sometimes it's just as simple with these smartphones today. Sometimes you just have to delete your app and reinstall it, you know, and sometimes that will take care of the problem as well. That's your answer for everything, Gibbs. Just delete it. Yeah.

Reinstall it. That actually does work with most computers, TVs, things like that. Yeah. Or just go out and buy a new one. I'm not saying delete it, but usually like a hard restart or something like that. Fixes most things. It's what I do at work all the time. It's like, oh, that doesn't look right.

Let me shut that down. And then you tell your boss, I got computer problems and not going to be able to get that TPS report in. Sorry. Help desk was not helpful. in South Carolina, and I have a great story for y'all. He was a serial killer, a rapist, a catapist, and I just think it would be an awesome story for y'all to look into. Also, y'all kill me.

I clean houses for a living, and I'm a hair stylist, and I can't get enough. Gibby, you talk just like I do. Everything you say, I say, too. So don't let him pick on you. They pick on me all the time. But again, love y'all. Can't wait to hear more. Keep your own time ticking.

pick on you. When do I ever pick on you? Uh, every day. Every day. So, you know, Pee-Wee Gaskins, definitely on the list. For sure. Actually a very well-known killer. Right. Um, and probably somebody we should have already done. You know, is he a big timer? Some people consider him to be a big timer. So yeah. We do get our fair share request. Yeah, he's definitely on the list. Hey, guys. This is this court from the New Orleans area. I just wanted to the call and let you guys know that I am so, so happy for you for reaching number 200. Eileen Warnos, hadn't listened to it yet, but pretty excited to do so. Actually, I think I'm going to wait until it's all, until it's out in its entirety.

It's what they usually do with a multi-part episode. But damn, guys, 200. Good job. I mean, let's, let's hope we see 400, 600, you know, do this for the next, you know, 30, 40 years or something like that, you know, it'd be great. But, you know, you don't have to put this on the air. I'm not looking for that. I just wanted to congratulate you guys and the usual crap when people call.

Anyway, thanks, fellas. Well, too late, it's on the air. Yeah. But, yeah, 30, 40 years, Gibbs. I don't know, you'd be 120 years old. So can we make it? I don't know if we can make it to that. I'd be old.

I wouldn't be that old. But yeah, it would be, yeah, I don't know. You'd be like, people say, wait, some people say sometimes it's hard to hear me, you know? Yeah. It'd be like, so. It'd be really hard to hear you. Yeah. Who's that guy that announces your name when you turn 100?

Oh, the weather guy. Yeah, I can't think it was. It used to be Willard Scott back in the day. You remember Willard Scott? Yeah. Now it's Al Roker. Yeah. So, hey, give me turn 100 today.

Of course, he probably wouldn't be around it. Well, it would have to be somebody else because he's older than me, I would think. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I don't know who's older than you, man. Oh, ouch. But, you know, he said 400, 6. Let's shoot for the stars, man. Let's do it, man. Break 1,000. Exactly. All right, everyone. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike,

and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.