True Crime All The Time - Aldo Pacheco

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

To outsiders, Aldo and Barbara Pacheco seemed like a happy family. When Barbara filed for divorce after a decade of marriage, Aldo became obsessed with winning custody of his kids and vowed that if he couldn’t have Barbara, no one else would. Join Mike and Gibby as they talk about Aldo Pacheco. What appeared to be an earlier attempt at killing Barbara caused Aldo to be charged with aggravated assault and aggravated kidnapping. But he was out on bond when he initiated a standoff with police that resulted in the death of two people. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 433 of the True Crime All The Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing pretty good. How about you? I'm doing excellent. Excellante. We kind of just did our little Patreon minisode.

We did. That we do weekly. And we talked for about 20 minutes about, you know, what we got going on, what we're watching. You came up with a bunch of movies. Couldn't remember who was in it. or the titles. Not like me. You were a fountain of knowledge.

Well, that I am. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Hannah Shoot. There's the shoot. Jennifer. Hey, Jennifer. Randa Evans Stanley. Well, thanks, Randa.

Morgan Leardy. Well, there's Morgan. SciPat. What up, Cy Pat? Stacey Meltzer. Oh, Meltzer. David Raymer. Claire Nicholas.

Well, thanks, Claire. Shira Dawkins. Well, I like that, Shira. And last but not least, to Brandy Noel jumped out at our highest level. Well, thanks. B to the RAND to the D.I. Okay.

That pretty good. Uh, huh? That, that, is it good? I don't know. Have I ever heard it? I don't think I have. So it's different. Let's put it that way.

I didn't mess it up. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. And if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Tommy Lawers. Hey, thanks, Tommy. Yeah, appreciate all the support we get. So we have a brand new app.

out right now on true crime all the time unsolved. And we're tackling a pretty well-known unsolved case. This is one that, you know, a lot of people still to this day, over nine years after the murder, speculate about the web sleuth online, it's the murder of Missy Beavers in Midlothian, Texas. There's reasons for it. I mean, you have an intruder dressed in tactical gear. who, you know, goes into a church, is waiting for her when she enters to teach this fitness class. There's just a lot of mystery. There is. There's also a lot of speculation.

Yep. So make sure you check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We're talking about Aldo or Aldo Pacheco. Aldo, Aldo. I'm going to go Aldo. Okay.

Just pick one and we'll stick with it. stick with that. So this is one of those cases, right, where, you know, to outsiders, on the outside looking in, Aldo and Barbara Pacheco seemed like a happy normal family. But when Barbara filed for divorce after a decade of marriage, Aldo became obsessed with a lot of different things, right, winning custody, probably like many other men that we've talked about, didn't want to give up money. And he kind of made that determination that, unfortunately, many do. That is, if I can't have her, nobody else can. Yeah.

And those are scary cases. Those are very scary cases. Barbara Pacheco grew up in Midland, Texas, with two sisters and two brothers. According to her aunts, she didn't have a good relationship with her mother. At the age of 19, Barbara came to her aunt, Eva Luna, and said, she could no longer live at home, Eva offered her a spare room in her house. As a good aunt would do. Yeah, I mean, that's tough, right?

Not having a good relationship with your parents or one of the other. In this case, you know, her mother. And at the age of 19, saying, you know what, I just can't live here anymore. I need to get away. Barbara had wanted to be a teacher since she was a little girl. Her aunt Eva wanted her dream to come true. So she helped Barbara move to Angelo State University. to earn her education degree.

So it does sound like, you know, she had a really good relationship with her aunt, and her aunt helped her out quite a bit. Good influencer. Yeah. In 1994, Barbara met Aldo Pacheco, a business student who was four years older. Aldo grew up in Fort Stockton.

He was one of seven children, but one of his sisters died when he was 21. Aldo became especially close to his brother, Guillermo. after this. Aldo told Barbara, he came from a dysfunctional family. But, you know, the sources that we used for the episode didn't really provide further details. I mean, okay, what does dysfunctional mean?

That can mean a lot of different things. It really can. I mean, what's the spectrum on that? Could be the worst of the worst or just, uh, just light dysfunctional, right? Yeah, right. We can't get along. We fight a lot all the way to. like, you know, Gertrude Banashefsky type shit.

Oh, wow. If you remember her, Barbara initially introduced Aldo to her family as a friend. In her interview for the show, American Monster, Eva Luna recalled, when I shook his hand, my first reaction is that he was not good for her and he was not a good person from day one. Okay. Just from that handshake. You know, it's interesting because we meet people all of the time. You think about meeting your daughter's boyfriends over the years.

I can think about the same thing. You form an opinion of every person you meet right then and there. You really do. Now, there's all those sayings, right? Don't judge a book by its cover. But we're constantly forming opinions of people. And this one, though, is pretty extreme. He's not good for her.

He's not a good person. from the first interaction. That was her thought. Makes me think of all the people you hired in your life. And just like when you hired me, you know, when I came in and shook your hand. And that first thought was probably amazing.

Look at this guy is amazing. Yeah. I mean, but there are also people who know how to put their best foot forward to get in the door. Yeah. And then it's only, later that you find out that that was just a smoke screen from the very beginning. And then the letdown comes.

And then it's like, oh my gosh, what can I do now? I've already hired this person. No, I'm not saying that was you per se. I'm just saying some people do that. Barbara became pregnant a month after she and Aldo officially started dating. Barbara Zanz told her she didn't have to get married, but she wanted to. Right. That happens. It does happen. I mean, I'm sure most people don't plan for it to happen that way, but it does happen. Although and Barbara got married in May 1995, they held the ceremony at a gazebo in a park and had the reception at her aunt's house. It's okay. Sounds like they went, you know, kind of low key with it. Yeah. They didn't go overboard. It's a nice little ceremony. Yeah. And my oldest dog. is thinking about getting married in the pretty near future.

And we've been talking about, you know, what routes to go. And did we go kind of lower key, save a little bit of money and maybe she can use that money for something else, you know, because I think back to my, my wedding. And it was awesome. Don't get me wrong. But the amount of money that was spent between my wife's dress, which was, you know, very expensive for the late 90s when I got married to the, you know, the dinner before, the reception and all that, it just goes by so fast.

It does. Now, we have all the pictures, but it's a lot of money for, you know, how many hours that function takes place. When really at the end of the day, you just want to get married to each other, right? Yeah, well, they've been together for like eight or nine years. Yeah. So we've known they were going to get married for some time. You could get a certificate on the internet to marry them.

Or you could just do it because I know you already have a number of them. Yeah, yeah. Their daughter, Bonnie, was born six months later. After their daughter was born, the family moved into an apartment close to the university so Barbara could finish her degree, Aldo dropped out of school and got a job as a car salesman, hoping to save money so that they could eventually move into a bigger place. although eventually started working at a prestigious country club in Midland and by all counts enjoyed this job.

All those oil workers down there in Midland. Well, there's a lot of money. Right. At a certain point in time, all the way through today, the oil boom and there's some people in Texas who have a boatload of money. They do. I mean, we're talking Beverly Hillbilly type money. Yeah, big time. Barbara graduated in December 1996 and started working as a kindergarten teacher, which she loved.

Things appeared to be going well for the couple, but Barbara and Aldo began having serious marriage problems around 2000. So it's been five years and now they're having some serious issues. Yeah, we don't know exactly when those issues started. But again, you know, so many people go through this. You get married with the best intentions in the world. You're in love. That's why people get married. But you find out that for whatever reason, you know, crack start to develop or people change over time, relationships change.

And you decide, you can't make this work. It happens to a lot of people. Wait, you don't get married for the tax deductions? Some people might. Oh, okay. There's also, you know, possibly. a green card angle for some people. I don't know.

I can only speak about myself. I was madly in love and still am, if you're listening to me, edit this, honey. Yes. He always says how much he loves you. According to Barbara's Aunt Mary Perez, Aldo was likely frustrated when he had

to go back to his job as a car salesman. He worked long hours and might have resented Barbara because she loved her job and he didn't. Mary also believed that Aldo was not physically abusive, but he was emotionally abusive. Which to some can be worse. Well, you know, let's face it, when people are physically abusive, you know, oftentimes

that is a little bit easier to spot. You know, if somebody shows up to work and they've got, you know, black eye or they're all bruised up, okay, people are going to start to ask questions. Yeah. But the emotional. abuse. It doesn't leave anything that really other people can see just by looking at you. Now, they might know you're down. You're not the same person, melancholy or whatever. But to your point, it can be very scarring. Yeah. And very nasty and hurtful.

Sure can. One night, Barbara unexpectedly called her in, Evil Luna. She was crying because Aldo hadn't been home in several days and she suspected he was out with this former girlfriend. Barbara called her aunt back hours later and said she was going to try to make things work because she didn't want Bonnie to grow up without a father. During this time, Barbara and Aldo had their second daughter, Maddie. Months after Maddie was born, Barbara became pregnant with twin boys. Their sons, Elijah and Ryan were born in September 2003. They're busy getting that family going well it happened pretty quickly right the the last three children came pretty rapidly according to their oldest daughter bonnie my mom made sure everyone thought everything was perfect but there was definitely a shift

in the household bonnie noticed that although was irritable and annoyed by the children he was also very controlling of barber and there's that word gibbs yeah controlling and it pops up up in so many of these episodes where, you know, ultimately the husband does something despicable. Why are these men so controlling? I mean, look, nobody should control anybody. If you're in a healthy relationship, you don't need to control anybody. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, in a perfect world, each partner would be secure with no need to feel like they have

to control the other. The problem is we don't live in a perfect world. Far from it, as evidenced by, you know, the episodes that we do. Right, right. Well, if anything, you hope that there's some give and take in that relationship, just not a total domination of control by one side. But that's, that's a lot of times what it is, unfortunately. Barbara told her Aunt Eva that although would time her when she went to the store, and if she wasn't back within his time frame, he would call her repeatedly. Eva told Barbara, this was a control issue. She wanted Barbara to know.

She deserved the best in life, but it would be up to her to make a decision about what she wanted to do. So again, we go back to her aunt is very supportive of her and sounds like she was throughout her life, but she's giving her her thoughts, which are great, they're correct, right?

This is controlling behavior. Sure. But Barbara's an adult. I mean, she can't forcibly make her leave this marriage. You know, she's giving her her best advice, but it's up to Barbara to make her own decisions.

I can imagine trying to time your partner, spouse, girlfriend, whatever, why they leave to make sure that they're back within a set amount of time. Yeah, if anything, I sometimes hope my wife stays out a little bit longer so I can play more Xbox. Take your time, honey.

I'm the opposite of controlling. The twins celebrated their first birthday on September 17, 2004. During their party, Aldo pushed Ryan's face into the cake. And at one point, he struggled to breathe. This guy was laughing, Gibbs. Sounds like he's an asshole. Yeah. He's laughing, but Barbara was very upset.

And this was the final straw. She decided she wanted to end her marriage. She called her Anne on September 18 and told her, she and Aldo discussed separate. And it may be one of those scenarios where, and I think it was because she made, you know, the statement,

right? She wanted to make the marriage work for the kids as many people do. You want to try to keep the family together. We do. But at some point people realize that that's just not going to work. But when he starts messing with the kids, okay, that's that's that's that's that's to some to many more egregious it's one thing that you're doing something

to me but now you're messing with the kids yeah that's you already crossed the line but that's like really crossing the line although moved in with his brother and barbara and the kids moved in with her aunt eva Luna he left numerous messages on eva's answering machine Bonnie heard some of the messages and they frightened her. Both Barbara and her aunt were afraid. In one message, Aldo told Barbara he had been reading her emails. And in another, he said his lawyer hired a private investigator to watch her. Aldo was fixated on getting full custody of the kids.

And trying to intimidate her. Yeah. I mean, we already said, right, he's a very controlling individual. Does it shock you that he? once she leaves, well, he's still trying to control her. Yeah. This is just another way of control or another method of control. She's no longer living in the same house,

but he's trying to control her by leaving messages saying, hey, I got somebody watching you. I'm reading your email. Right. And does he really want the kids? Because he's a loving and caring dad, you know, that pushes his kids' face in a cake and holds them down? Or is he just somebody who wants to have custody of the kids to avoid paying for them

or paying less for them and to have the control of having the kids over her? Yeah, I was thinking that too could be a form of control, right? I control the kids. So you're going to do what I say. Barbara was granted temporary custody of the kids at a hearing on May 12, 2005. and Aldo was granted standard visitation rights. On the morning of May 23rd, 2005, Barbara called 911 to report that Aldo kidnapped and assaulted her.

She was dropping the twins off at daycare. When Aldo approached and said they needed to talk, he got in her car, punched her in her face, and forced her into the passenger seat. He started driving to a motel in Odessa. When she tried to escape, Aldo pulled out a knife and forced her down to the floorboard, he continued hitting Barbara in the face and said he just wanted to go to the motel to talk. I just want to talk. But until we get there,

I'm going to beat the crap out of you. And hold a knife on you. Yeah. Once they arrived, Aldo wanted her to go into the room with him. But Barbara refused. She was afraid of what he would do. She should have been. Oh, very much so. Anybody that pulls a knife on you is not someone you want to be alone in a hotel room with. She fell to the ground and Aldo kicked her. She was able to escape and ran to the motel office to call for help. Aldo then drove off in her car. Police photo showed Barbara with a black eye and other injuries to her face.

She was taken to the hospital for treatment. So no doubt, Gibbs, this would have been a very traumatic event, right? for Barbara. I can't help but wonder what this would be like in any situation, but what would it be like when it's perpetrated by a person with whom you had a marriage you loved? You have four children and this person is doing this to you. I mean, the shock and all of it. Yeah, this is not a stranger off the street. A couple hours later, Aldo's brother Guillermo called the police to report that Aldo had given him two letters with instructions to mail them to his mother and kids. Aldo apologized repeatedly in these letters and implied he was planning to kill Barbara and end his life.

In a letter to his children, he wrote, you guys would be better off without us in your life. Because he's an expert on what they would be better in life at. Yeah. He's not even saying you'd be better off without me. you'd be better off without both of us. Yeah. So he's speaking not only for himself, but for Barbara as well. And I'm sure she didn't feel the same one.

I'm sure she did not. Aldo returned to the motel parking lot on the night of May 23rd and was arrested. He was charged with aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping, and possession of a deadly weapon. Okay, those are serious charges, as they should be. Absolutely. He posted his bond three months later. Barbara had a protective order and was granted full custody. According to the Odessa American, police visited Barbara's residence five times in six months for a request to check the home, a report of a suspicious person, and a suspicious vehicle in the area. I'm sure he was talking her. And I'm sure she was scared. So, you know, even if this was not him every time. Can you blame her for being very scared and paranoid?

And I would say no. Yeah, I would be paranoid and scared too if I was in her position. This is a man who kidnapped you, assaulted you, and wrote a letter essentially saying he was planning on killing you and himself. Yeah. And now he's out on bond free. By the fall of 2005, things were improving in Barbara's life. She was spending time with James Eric Wiggs Jr. A special education teacher at her school.

Eric was divorced and had a daughter. So it seems like things are getting better for her. Moving on. Yeah. I mean, you know, she's met somebody. You know, we don't know how serious it was, but she's spending time with this person. Michael Lee Johnson described her dad as a goofy, outgoing person.

She spent time with Barbara and her kids and said, Barbara was always kind to her. Barbara's daughter, Bonnie liked Eric and thought he brought out the best in her mom. And my thought is Gibbs, the bar was probably not that high to be, you know, a good influence or to bring out the best in Barbara. Probably not. Just be kind. Be better than Aldo, which was probably not too hard. In addition to teaching, Eric enjoyed music and acting. He worked at a local playhouse doing light.

sound and acting as a stage hand, he had recently become the theater's technical director and designed sets for the upcoming season. On the afternoon of January 16th, 2006, the Midland Police Department received the 911 call. The dispatcher briefly heard what sounded like a woman's voice, followed by three gunshots. Well, you know, when the dispatcher hears that, they know something bad is happening. Yeah, you know, a lot of times people who are call and it takes the dispatcher a while to get it out from the person, like what is really going on. Well, when you hear three gunshots, I don't know what else you need to know, right? Somebody needs to get out there immediately. Officers found Eric in the front yard of Eva Luna's residence.

He had been fatally shot in the chest and right on. EMS workers attempted to revive him, but they were unsuccessful. Inside the home were Aldo, Barbara, and their son Elijah. Aldo picked up the phone and warned the police he was armed. An officer who knew Aldo spoke to him on the phone. Aldo admitted he shot Eric Wicks and said he was not going to let them make an ass out of me anymore. Oh, I think if anybody was making an ass out of you, it's yourself. Wasn't them making an ass out of you. No, but, you know, kind of analyze his thought process there. Who's making an ass out of him? Eric, Barbara, and how are they doing it?

By being together? Yeah. Doesn't make sense. But to him it does. And he said he didn't want to share. If he couldn't have her, nobody can have her. Yeah, I think he had that kind of way of thinking going on. Homicide negotiator.

B.J. Land, convinced Aldo to release Elijah around 3.30 p.m. But hours passed, and he refused to consider any further requests. And this is something, you know, you would see in a movie. I know what happens in real life, obviously, hostage situations where you have a negotiator. They show it a lot in movies. Very tense situation. Yeah. That's why they're trained very well in dealing with this stuff. The standoff continued until a few minutes before 6 p.m. When negotiators heard a pop, this sounded like a gunshot. Swad entered the home and found Barbara dead in a bedroom. She was shot in the stomach and throat.

Aldo suffered a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the face, but he was still a lot. Police saw that he had written Eric Wigg's license plate number on his hands, leading them to believe he was following him. So, you know, when you talk about a hostage situation and hostage negotiators, you know, it's really tough for those folks to be successful when the hostage taker doesn't want anything. Well, that's true. And they're not willing to talk to you. Can't bargain with them.

You can't give them anything. Yeah. Now, they were successful in getting Elijah out of the house, which is a good thing. but it seems to me, Gibbs, he was pretty set on what he was going to do. He was going to shoot and kill Barbara. And then he was going to kill himself. Yeah, because he knew Barbara wasn't going to come back to him. And that's what he wanted.

Aldo was charged with capital murder in the hospital. He was hospitalized for multiple days. As a result of the gunshot wound, his left eye is permanently closed. Aldo has deep scars across his neck. left cheek and head. He's missing teeth and parts of his face or recess. Well, okay, things like that are going to happen when you shoot yourself in the face. It will. On April 5th, 2006, Aldo was indicted on a capital murder charge. His trial started on November 13, 2006. The prosecution chose not to pursue the death penalty. It's kind of strange. Yeah, it is Texas. They are

are big on the death penalty in Texas. The prosecution argued that Aldo originally planned to kill Barbara during the May 2005, kidnapped. The jury heard part of Barbara's police interview and they saw the photos of her injuries. A detective testified that Aldo rented the motel room under the name Danny Sanchez. Inside the room, he found Barbara's purse and cell phone and a large bottle of alcohol that was mostly empty. In Barbara's car, a detective found duct tape and a knife. A detective also told jurors about Aldo's letters, which he laughed at his brother's workplace to be mailed out.

The show American Monsters included photos of the full letters in their episode on the case. Aldo wrote to his mother, I'm so sorry for doing this, but to live without my kids and my wife is not worth living. tell Johnny Rigo Mary Prissy and Mimo that I love them very much and that I'm so sorry for doing this to them. I didn't deserve this and I'm not going to be her slave for the rest of my life and pay her money so she can screw around. Mom, thank you for always being there for us in good times and the rough times. I know you might not understand why this happened, but I found out she was seeing another guy she was involved with. If I can't have her, then no other man is going to have her.

There you go. Try to get the kids and have them in your lives. Tell them that their dad loved them very much with all my heart. Tell them I always love them with all my heart. I'm so sorry, Mom, if I can't have them, she can't have them either. I love you. And please try to forgive me for doing this to you guys. I feel like such a failure.

Mom, I couldn't even keep my family together. Try to get kids, please. Have them in your life. Please. See me living through the kids. I wished this had never happened until Bonnie, Maddie, Ryan, and Elijah. The dad loved them very much with all his heart. Tell Esther and John, I am so sorry and please forgive me. So, I mean, I think it speaks volumes. You know, that one phrase, if I can't have her, then no other man is going to have her. You can tell how selfish he is in that letter. Oh, so much so. But then what is he also saying in there?

I didn't deserve this. I'm not going to pay her money. Yeah. I'm not going to pay her support payment. Right. And all this. Yeah. If I can't have her, if I can't have the kids, you know, then he's got a lot of,

woe is me in there. I'm a failure. I can't keep my family together. And I get it. there are some thoughts that a person would have like that, right, when a relationship disintegrates. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. But what most people don't feel is that they have to kill the other person because they don't want anyone else to have them.

They don't want to pay them money. And they don't want them to have the kids, you know, most people, the majority of people don't feel like that. Or they might feel like that, but they definitely don't have. act on it. They don't act on it. Aldo wrote to his children, I'm so sorry for doing this to you guys. I know you don't understand why this happened, but I couldn't live without you guys in my life. I love you guys with all my heart and not having you in my life every day is not worth living. Please know that you gave me so much joy in my life. You guys are my world. I'm not going to live like we were going to have to

if mom and dad got divorced. I didn't want you guys to have to see that all your lives. You guys would be better off without us in your life. Please always remember that I loved you guys with all my heart. You guys should stay with Grandma Esther or Grandma Pacheco. They do love you so much. Even Mary thought that mom and dad should get divorced because it was the best thing for everyone. And that was wrong. Don't let them take care of you guys.

Don't trust them. I love you guys and I hope you can forgive me for doing this to you guys. Always remember that dad never wanted this and wanted the family to stay together. Remember that I did everything I could to keep this family together. And mom would not even try. I love you guys. Remember dad always loved you. Please try to remember that dad loved you.

Bonnie, Maddie, Elijah, and Ryan with all his heart. Love you always dad. Thrown his kid's mom underneath the bus in the letter. Yeah, mom didn't want this. Yeah. What he doesn't say in the letter is that dad was an asshole. Dad was controlling. Dad was physically abusive, emotionally abusive.

Dad drove her away because of all this. Yeah. I mean, I think it's very clear. But again, the distorted view by people, right? He has a distorted view of the situation. All he can think of is, well, I tried to keep this family together. I wanted to keep it together, but she didn't want to try. I think she tried for many years.

Sure, she did. And eventually, she said, said, I can't do this anymore. Now, prosecutors argued that these letters showed Aldo's intent to kill Barber and himself because of the custody battle. And I think it's pretty easy to make that correlation. I think so. It's not a leap.

And when he says, you guys will be better off without us in your lives. I mean, he really spells it out. A neighbor testified that Aldo attempted to run over Eric Wiggs. after he shot him and then drove his vehicle through the garage door of the home. The jury also listened to the 911 call from January 16th. According to the 911 dispatcher's testimony, Barbara initiated the call, then dropped the phone. She was heard screaming briefly after the call connected. 30 seconds later, the dispatcher heard two gunshots and a child crying.

After the second gunshot, there was a brief pause before. a third gunshot, which investigators said was fired into a TV. After that, Aldo picked up the phone and demanded to speak to his mother-in-law, Esther Paredes. He identified himself by name when asked by the dispatch. Aldo said in the call per the Odessa American, I'm so tired of them screwing me. I just want to see my baby.

That's all. He repeatedly demanded to speak to his mother-in-law, but did not tell the dispatcher how to contact her. He then asked to speak to his brother, Guillermo Pacheco, who got on the line. Aldo asked, Mimo, why would she do this to me? Aldo's brother tried to convince him to come out of the house. Aldo responded, she's fucking around. She's not going to do that to me anymore. Now, this was from the Odessa American. They omitted the expletive, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was. Pretty sure, too. But he's saying she's messing around, but they're separated.

They're not together anymore. They're not together. She can do whatever she wants. Now, could she have been messing around with this guy before? I guess it's possible. There was nothing in the research that definitively said that. Everything I read made it sound like the relationship began after her and Aldo split. But again, it's how does Aldo Pacheco?

view things in his mind, right? We know it's a distorted view. Oh, for sure. He feels like he's done nothing wrong. And you know what? I do want to go back to him being out on bond. I get it. There's a bond process most of the time.

But could you make the argument that a man who kidnapped, assaulted, and clearly had the intent to, kill his wife and himself. Maybe should be denied bond. It's a good thought. Because if he's not out on bond, this part doesn't happen. I know it's hard to predict that something like this is going to happen. But I mean, I said it earlier, right?

Those were very serious charges he was facing. And coupled with the letters, you can clearly see what the intent was. Yeah, him getting out on bond allowed him to do what he did. I know it's easy to look at it after the fact and say, well, he should have been denied Bond, right? That part is easy. Before the fourth gunshot was heard, Aldo told police negotiator BJ Land. He was worried about his children throughout the call.

He insisted Barbara was okay, but refused to let anyone speak with her. He was asked who the man outside was, and he responded. that's her blanking boyfriend. Aldo said at one point, they were laughing at me, man. They took my kids. The justice system is messed up. Again, just more stuff there, Gibbs,

that I think, you know, tells you where his head was at. They were laughing at me. It's like he felt as though Barbara and, you know, also Eric had gotten over on him. somehow. Like they were laughing at him. They were mocking him because they were happy together. And here he was completely out of the picture. He's really making up a lot of narrative in his own mind. Yes. Police officers testified they were so certain, although was their only suspect,

that they didn't even send some evidence off for processing, which does seem a little strange to me. I get it. You're, you're very sure that he's the killer. And he's the only one that could be the killer. Yeah. But I don't know. Do you, are you at that point looking to save money

by not sending some of the evidence off? I don't know. That part seemed a little strange to me. Defense attorney Rusty Wall said in his opening statement, is quoted by the Odessa American. I submit to you that the evidence shows Aldo Pacheco is also a victim of what occurred on that day. Every day Aldo Pacheco lives and looks into a reflective surface.

He can't help but remember that day. And I got to be honest with you, that's one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard. I have to agree with you. He's a victim only in the sense that he did that to himself. Absolutely. So to say that he has to look into a mirror every day. day and be reminded of it, he should be reminded of it. Absolutely. Yeah. He killed two individuals. Yes. Live with it. That just seems like a very

dumb statement. I know defense attorneys say things. They have a plan in mind. But, you know, that if I was on a jury, I would be shaking my head over that one. The defense argued that although felt betrayed by Barbara and the government, he was pushed into a corner and felt like he had no choice. And that might be true. He might have felt like he had no choice. But that was a feeling that he had. That wasn't true, right? That wasn't correct. Yeah. There's always another choice. Yes. Now, he might have really been feeling that way, but that was only in his, his own mind. Aldo shocked the court by getting on the stand and testifying that he killed Eric Wiggs in self-defense. Aldo explained that it all started because he needed to see his children.

He told the jury that before the separation, he was the one who woke the kids up, dressed them, and got them ready for school or daycare. After Barbara filed for divorce in April 2005, he had visitation on Thursday nights and every other weekend. He claimed Barbara wouldn't take his calls, wouldn't allow him to see the kids, and tried to turn them against him. He believed she was being unfaithful to him and alienating him, which made him angry. Well, she doesn't have to be faithful to you because you're not together anymore.

So that doesn't even play. No, but in his mind, what is he thinking? Technically, we're still married. So, you know, you can't be with anybody else because we're still technically married, which is not normally how it plays out in real life, right? when people separate and they're going through the divorce process, that kind of faithfulness part, I think for many, goes out the window. Aldo testified that the May 23rd, 2005 incident was an argument that got out of hand.

And it was the first time he'd ever hit Barber. He was forbidden from seeing the kids after this. an incident that was an argument that got out of hand, that you somehow got charged with aggravated kidnapping, aggravated assault and a couple of other charges. Yeah, it got way out of hand. Yeah. Maybe that's why you're not seeing the kids anymore.

He began to suspect Barbara had feelings for another man. And that was why she asked for divorce one day while picking up the kids. he saw a number on the caller ID. He didn't recognize. He called several times and a man eventually answered. He told him who he was and asked for his name, but the man hung up on it. Aldo had a friend who worked at a cell phone shop, traced a number, which identified Eric Wicks.

And again, I don't know if Barbara had feelings for Eric before she asked for the divorce or it happened after. But, you know, I'll be honest with you. I don't care either way. And here's why I say this. Because I believe Aldo was a terrible husband, a terrible man, controlling, abusive. I think she probably, from everything that I read, went above and beyond on trying to make the marriage work and probably stayed in it far longer than she really wanted to, just to try to save it, right? to keep the family unit together for the kids.

Yeah, I mean, the outcome was based on the events that he made happen earlier. Yeah. Yeah. But can you imagine being in that situation for a number of years? And then whether it was before she asked for the divorce or after, you meet someone and you realize that, you know, all men don't act like that. Right. Some men are nice and will treat you nicely.

I'm not saying anyone should be unfaithful. What I'm saying is, is that the timing of it, which we don't know, is not that relevant to me in the grand scheme of things. I know what Aldo has in his mind, right? Eric came between my wife and I, but you and I are sitting here saying that we don't believe that's the truth. Aldo himself caused the disintegration of the marriage, by, you and I, but I are sitting here saying that we don't believe that's the truth. marriage by the way he acted.

Yeah. And the way that he treated her. If she decided to develop a friendship with Eric at the school or elsewhere and that grew because Aldo decided to be the way he was, well, that's just human nature. On January 16th, Aldo was driving and passed Barbara and his son, Elijah, in a vehicle with Eric Wiggs, who he didn't recognize at the time. Aldo said he wrote down Eric's license plate number to find out who owned the vehicle. He testified, per the Odessa American, I first blamed him.

I thought, this is the reason I lost my wife. This is the reason I lost my family. I was putting blame on the gentleman with her. I was happy to see my boy. I hadn't seen him in eight months. But who was this guy holding my son? I became angry. He followed them to the house and tried to have a friend who worked at a car.

dealership. Run Eric's plate. This was unsuccessful. Aldo circled the block before parking in the driveway. Eric walked outside holding a pack of Diet Pepsi cans. Aldo asked for his name and Eric asked what he was doing there. At some point in their argument, Aldo believed Eric was going to throw the soda cans at him. So he shot him. Wow. Now, I've heard a lot of self-defense arguments. Some very believable, some not believable at all. If you and I are standing in the yard, and let's say we're 20 feet away, I have a gun and you have a 12 pack of Diet Pepsi. Am I in fear of my life that you are somehow going to open that, pull out a can,

throw it at me that I can't dodge, and I'm in mortal danger? far-fetched. Yes. I have an implement of death in my hand. You have a refreshing drink. This makes no sense at all. No. But he's got to throw some type of argument out there.

Oh, he does. I mean, what's he going to say? The truth is not going to work. Because, you know, we all believe the truth is he went there to kill Eric and Barbara. Sure, based on his notes. Yeah. But again, if I'm on that jury, I'm just shaking. in my head because it doesn't make sense.

Right. And did he run this by his defense attorney? Hey, this is what I'm going to go with on the stand. And the defense attorney signed off on that. Maybe based on the one statement of the defense attorney made. Yeah, that's true. I don't know what kind of defense attorney you got there. You know, not everyone is Perry Mason.

We say this all the time. No matter what profession you're in, a certain percentage of people, are the best of the best. True. A large percentage are okay. Yeah. They're competent. And then another percentage are just not good.

You find that in every walk of life. I'm not saying this defense attorney was a bad dude, but, you know, based on the statement he made, I do question a little bit. Normally you want that top tier, if you can. If you can get it. Sure. You know. attorney,

someone that cuts your hair. Anything where my life is kind of in somebody's hands, I would prefer to have the best of the best. Or the rest of our hair that we have. We want the best. I don't care about barbers. I don't have enough hair to care about that.

Although testified that afterwards, I got back in my car. I sat there a little bit. I'm in a real pickle. I'm in a real mess now. That's what he said on the stand. Yeah, you think. I'm in a pickle.

Dude, you're in way more than a pickle. You're in deep shit. You're up a creek without a paddle. Aldo then went inside to confront Barbara and see his son. He found Elijah crying in a bathroom. Barbara told him to get out. Aldo laid his gun down and went into the bathroom to get Elijah after putting him in a crib. In the bedroom, he went into the hall to argue with.

with Barbara. Aldo testified that she lunged for the gun. He said, we were fighting for the gun. And it went off into her stomach. She fell back on the bed. I looked in to see what happened. It was so surreal. I was just so mad. She wouldn't let me have my babies. I just wanted to see my babies. He shot Barbara again, aiming for the chest, but it hit her neck instead, leaving a large hole under her chin. Well, I accidentally shot her when we were struggling for the gun in her stomach, but then I decided to go ahead and kill her. Does that make sense?

No. Does that not make the first statement unbelievable? How many times do you hear that? Well, the gun went off as we were wrestling for it. And he clearly says, she's on the bed now. Although then shot the TV because he felt angry and out of control. So the one thing we haven't talked about is, and I don't. don't know the answer to this question, but how did this guy even get a gun? You would assume that any

guns he owned at the time he was indicted, charged, released on bail, those would have been taken away, right? You would think if they knew about them. Yeah. I don't know what the, what the law is on that. I mean, he's not convicted yet. Right. Well, but that's a real dangerous situation. when you have somebody charged with what he was charged with, couple that with the letters, and you've got a guy out on Bond who has access to guns. That's a scary thought. During cross-examination,

88, Tim Flathers asked Alder, you felt threatened physically by Mr. Wiggs? Aldo responded, I took it as he'd throw those cans at me. Those cans. Reminds me of that show, uh, the jerk. Do you remember that? Yeah, they're shooting the oil.

Yeah. The oil cans. The ADA asked, so you thought he was going to throw some diet Pepsi's at you and you shot him? Aldo responded, yes, sir. I was worried. Those Pepsi cans come flying at me. I don't know. They could do some real harm.

Aldo was asked, if he meant to shoot Barbara, he responded, I don't know what I meant to do at the moment. Mr. Flathers, it was a surreal moment. thing. He explained that he shot Barbara a second time because she was angry about the first shot. You think? You've happened shot me in the stomach, you asshole. Who is not going to be upset that you shot them? Yeah. So his explanation is, I shot her the second time because she was mad at me about the first shot. I just wanted to shut her up. He said he lied to the hostage negotiator about Barbara being okay because he was afraid SWAT would come in and shoot him. He began to worry about the kids during the negotiation.

He said that he thought to himself, look at what I've done. How can you do this to your kids? I didn't want to go on without my family. Guys like that, do all that thinking afterwards. Well, and even then, he didn't say anything about Barbara, right? He was, even if he was being truthful there, it was only, how could I do this to the kids? But you go back to the letter

and he said to the kids that they would be better off without both mom and death. The prosecutor asked Aldo why he didn't express any remorse during his three hours on the phone. He responded, I shot my head off. You don't think that's remorse?

No, actually I don't. I don't see that as remorse at all. I feel like if you go back to the letter, that was the culmination of a plan he had had for some time. Yeah, I don't think he shot himself for remorse. No, he had planned in the earlier incident, right, to shoot Barbara and then shoot himself. Yeah.

So now in this one, he's just following the same game plan. In closing arguments, the prosecutor told the jury, per the Odessa American, the defendant's version of events is a fantasy version he's cooked up in his own month. And I would have to agree with that. This guy is just living in his own fantasy world or he's concocting this stuff, right, to try to explain what he did. But there's no explanation that's going to make sense other than what really happened or why he did it. For real. As you said, you know, at that point, people are just throwing stuff at the wall. Yeah. The defense countered. The bottom line is that he took responsibility for what happened. He told you what his intent was.

We can talk about inconsistencies in the state's case all day long, but the biggest is that the state can't tell you what happened in the house that day. Mr. Pacheco did. And this is something that you bring up a lot, Gibbs. Well, why can't the state tell you exactly what happened in the house that day? It's because Barbara died. Yeah, she's no longer around to tell her. her side of the story. And Aldo is the only one that is. But does that mean that his version of events is true? No, absolutely not. I mean, he has a vested interest, right, in crafting a narrative that makes him look better. And if you're a murderer, you're probably going to be a liar as well. Yeah, I don't know how many people say, I got no problem with murder, but lying is where I draw the line.

Yeah. Can't bend the truth. The defense asked the jury to consider a lesser conviction of murder or aggravated assault. Aggravated assault. The main killed two people. Yeah. That's not going to happen. On November 16th, 2006, Aldo was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life without parole,

which we said they already took the death penalty off the table. So that that would have been the maximum he could have gotten. Barbara's aunt, Lucy Valpins told the press afterwards, we got to and people got to see the truth that she was a good mother. She was a wonderful, caring, dedicated mother who protected her children, so much so that she gave her life for them. And I think you can look at that a couple of different ways. You know, she made the decision to leave the relationship.

And it sounded to me Gibbs like the final straw was the way Aldo was treating the children. So in that sense, you can make the argument that she, you know, did lose her life in the process of protecting her children. It's true. Now, it could also be some of the actions that occurred in the house that day. You know, what did she do to try to ensure Elijah's safety? You know, did she bargain with Alda? Let Elijah go, I'll stay with you. We don't know what could have happened. My thought is that she probably did everything she could. I think most moms would. Yeah, to protect Elijah.

Aldo's appeal was denied in June 2008. His daughter, Bonnie, told the show American Monster, I could never imagine my dad turning into the monster he did. I think he struggled with inner demons that I never saw before. And I think that he wanted so badly for things to go his way, but it would never go back to the way it was. Aldo Pacheco was angered by his perceived lack of control after Barbara Fowl for divorce and gained custody of the children. This anger worsened when she started seeing someone else, causing Aldo to decide that no one else could have her.

He believed that his children would be better off with both of their parents gone rather than divorced. You know what? Control freaks hate. Losing control? Absolutely. Yeah. And we see that in so many cases, right? you have these men, most of times it's men, sometimes women too, but you have someone who's very controlling.

And it's that point in time where they can no longer control the person. They lose the control. And that's when they really snap. And that happens very often. You know, like his daughter said, of course, they're not going to go back to the way it ever was because she got away from him controlling her. Yeah. And, you know, I think at some point she did start this relationship with Eric.

She probably realized, oh, so this is what it's like, you know, to date someone who treats you with respect and dignity and, you know, in a way that everyone should be treated. She might have forgotten what that was after so many years. years of being abused and controlled. You know, Otto really thought highly of himself to make that statement towards the end that we read that the kids would be better off without both of them. I mean,

he's really thinking pretty highly of himself. Yeah. Rather than having both parents alive, but then being divorced. Yeah. Yeah. As if so many of us didn't go through that scenario, is it ideal?

No. Obviously it's not, but many of us went through it. I did. I turned out halfway decent. Yeah. I surely would rather have both of my parents alive and divorced than both of them dead. Yes. That's just, that makes no sense.

The, the thought that someone, Eric, was so threatening with some Pepsi, Diap Pepsi cans. Yes. first of all, I don't know how fast you can throw a diet Pepsi can. Most people can at least have some reflexes. They can move left or right. You know what you can't move out of the way of? Yeah.

A bullet. I know. But a Diet Pepsi can, I can probably dodge that. I'd be more worried about opening that Diet Pepsi can and tell me to drink whatever that diet stuff in there is. It's probably more dangerous for you. Yeah. Hopefully Diet Pepsi's not a sponsor on this episode, but they are, you know, nothing like an ice cold Pepsi on a warm day. You can just hear it pouring over the ice.

But it's probably, it's probably more dangerous than having someone throw a Diet Pepsi can at you from any distance at all. Now, if you're right up next to somebody, okay, I get it. You could, you could hurt them pretty badly. It's not like we all haven't had a can throwing out of us now and then, right? Yeah. Yeah. I throw one at you at least once a month. I play dodge can all the time with you.

If you can dodge a can, you can dodge a ball. Exactly right. I'm just glad you're not throwing the wrenches anymore. But in all seriousness, you know, as we wrap this one up, unfortunately, it's a scenario that we see all too often. Now, a lot of the details are different. But the underlying currents and the way of thinking is often, you're really similar. You have a man who's losing control. He's a very controlling person.

And when he loses that control, it's, I'd rather kill this person than live without them. I'd rather kill this person than let them be happy with someone else. I'd rather kill this person and kill myself and leave my four children to grow up without either parent. Yeah. Then get devised. I mean, to most of us, it's just, it makes no sense, right? It's the, the thinking is so flawed. But I don't know, in his mind, maybe it made perfect sense. And maybe that's the scary part. But that's it for our episode on Aldo Pacheco.

We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Brandy in the Fort Worth area. You found the podcast about four or five weeks ago. And I just listened to the Chris Bonnet part one and part two. Just wanted to say, I love the podcast.

Keep us the good work and keep your own time ticking. And I don't have a team. I think you both compliment each other very well. Just keep up the good work. Thanks. All right. Appreciate the voicemail. Glad you found the podcast.

Absolutely. Tell your friends. Family. Strangers. Yeah. Melman. Or if you're like Gibby, just, you know, you're on the subway. just grab somebody's phone and just subscribe to the podcast.

That's what he does. Yeah. Just do that. I mean, you're in Fort Worth. So you just pull some truck over and say, hey, give me your phone. Pull a truck over. You might be taking it too far.

Hi, Mike and Givie. This is Nikki Thompson from, I'm in Indiana. I'm first-time caller, so I'm a little nervous. I actually stumbled across your podcast on Pandora around Thanksgiving last year. So fairly new listeners. But I'm almost caught up and to my surprise, I got to hear my Patreon shout out today on the Raymond Fitzinch, that Rennon Finch episode.

And a strange, winky dink, as if you might say, about that episode is he died on May 15th of 1995, which would have been my 13th birthday, which is creepy. But anywho, I emailed you guys yesterday about update on the Baummeister. that can weave ties into one of my dad's best friends. So I thought you might want to hear that. I love what you're doing. You guys keep me entertained eight hours a day building trucks at General Motors. Thank you for that. I love your banter.

I love your guys. It's dynamic. Keep doing what you're doing and keep your own time to get time. All right. She might have built our trucks. That's what I was thinking. Yes. She might have a hand in on it.

She might have. We don't know. Gibby and I have the same truck for anybody who's not heard that story. I bought mine. and then Gibby took a look at it and he said, you know what? I think I'd like one just like it. And I got it.

It's the exact same model, only a different color. I just want to know with that one button that says do not push. So I haven't pushed it yet. I had that installed special for you. Was that way? It's an ejection seat like James Bond. I would not push it. I haven't yet.

Because it only is for the driver's side. Is that what? I think he always had his on the other side or something in case somebody got in the car. This one's the driver's side. It's going to shoot you right. through the roof. All right. Appreciate the voicemail. Glad you found the, uh, the podcast and caught up pretty quickly because, uh, we have a plethora of episodes out there right now. A cornycopia of nature's treasures. Orna Culpia. All right, buddy. That is it. We had no mailbag. So that's it for another episode of

true crime all the time. So for Mike and give me, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.