True Crime All The Time - Alfred J. Hunter

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

After murdering his ex-wife, Alfred J. Hunter stole a small plane and terrorized the city of Boston for three hours, shooting at random targets with an AK-47 and flying close to motorists and buildings. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Alfred J. Hunter. Hunter was highly controlling and couldn't handle the fact that his ex-wife didn't want to be with him. After his arrest, prosecutors and mental health professionals were tasked with unpacking a history of mental illness and domestic abuse. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 356 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing well. How about yourself? I'm doing great. Good. You and I just got done recording a Patreon episode. We did on Sahara Fakir, a woman who murdered a 66 year old man in his Georgia home. There's a lot going on with that case. It's a bizarre case for sure. Yeah, bizarre. But before that, I also told the story about a puppy dog Maltese scam attempt. Oh yeah.

Against my family and my wife is livid. Yeah. She wanted this Maltese and we found out it was a scam and she's not happy at all. No. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Tiffany Burkart. Hey, Tiffany. Renee Davis.

What's going on, Renee? Christian. Hey, Christian. Roman Hernandez. What's up, Hernandez? Shannon S. Hey, Shannon. Aza.

Hoyser. I appreciate that, Aza. Megan Taylor. Hey, Megan. Angelina. There's Angelina. Erica Wickew. Oh, thank you, Erica.

Douglas Mashad. What's going on, Mashad? Aaron Gray. Hey, Aaron. Jeanette Borgandstrand. Oh, good old Jeanette. Good old. William Kramer.

What's up, William? Katie. Hey, Katie. Be nasty. Well, okay, I will. Amanda Mossad. What's up, Massad? Ossie Emma.

I think I'm just going to say, what's up Emma. Okay. And last minute least, David Heygood jumped out at our highest level. Hey, good. And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Claire Collins. Hey, Claire. So appreciate all the support, new and continued support.

I love it. I mentioned that we have a new Patreon episode out. We also have a new episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved. We're talking about Chalino Sanchez, a popular Mexican. and singer, he was known as the king of Corito, and he was murdered at the height of his fame. And I know you love Corito. Yeah, I was not familiar with Corito. Well, it's definitely a good case.

So I hope everybody switches over and listen. Yeah, definitely check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm ready. We are talking about Alfred J. Hunter. After murdering his ex-wife, Alfred J. Hunter stole a small, plane and terrorized the city of Boston for three hours, shooting at random targets within AK-47 and flying close to motorists and buildings after his arrest, prosecutors and mental

health professionals were tasked with unpacking a history of mental illness and domestic abuse. I can tell it's going to be a good one. Yeah, so we're going to have a lot to get into. at the time of his arrest, Alfred Hunter was a 42-year-old veteran and post office worker from Massachusetts, Alfred first enlisted in the Army in 1966. He majored in aviation at Laterno Technical College in Texas. He trained to be an air traffic controller at the Kiesler Air Force Base in Mississippi, but didn't complete training. He had always been interested in flying because his father was a pilot.

Always wanted to fly. Yeah. You and I have had this conversation offline. Yeah. Many times. There is a small airport, not far from my house, very close to your work. Right. We have actually talked about maybe taking some classes, getting our pilots license.

But every time I think about it, right. Something pops up in the news where somebody was flying in their own plane and you know, it crashed. So I get a little scared. And I think you're afraid to go up in the air with me. Oh, that would never happen. How would we take classes together if you're not going to? No, you would take classes with your instructor and I would take classes with my instructor. Oh, I thought we were going to like do two for one. Like you pay for it and I audit the class. You just tag along. You know, people used to audit classes. Yes. I'd audit the class and then like get my license that way. Anything you could do to not have to pay for something. Exactly. You would do. Alfred served as a

in Vietnam from 1968 to 1969 and received an honorable discharge. He returned home and got a job with his father's construction company. He was married for a short time, but he and his first wife divorced. According to Alfred's sister Wendy, he re-enlisted in 1975 because he just couldn't adjust to civilian life. Alfred was stationed in Korea and Germany and was discharged again in 1978. So he's been around a few places for sure. Yeah, yeah, he's traveled.

I just wonder how many people were like this. You know, we've heard horror stories of what it was like to be in Vietnam. Yeah. Neither you nor I are old enough to have been there. But I wonder in any situation, once you get used to something, how hard is it to come back to what I'll call regular life. It sounds to me like for him it was tough. And he reenlisted because he just couldn't adjust.

And I think you can make the same case to white criminals, repeat, reoffend. Some. Yeah. Yeah. Because they can't adjust to life on the outside. Right.

A little different scenario, but in the same bank. Yeah. I definitely get it. Alfred first got into trouble in 1917. In February of that year, he was drinking with two men at a motel in Ipswich, Massachusetts. They refused to leave. So he pulled a knife on them and they got into an altercation.

Alfred was charged with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, but pleaded guilty to assault and battery in May and received one year probation. Well, that's a bummer, man. Kind of sounds like that Nicholas Cage movie. Conair. Yeah. Pretty good movie. It was a good movie. So what we don't have are all the details.

In Conair, Nicholas Cage is trying to be defensive. He's not instigating. No. But because he's a trained soldier, he ends up messing somebody up and, you know, getting sentenced. What we don't know here was why he pulled a knife. Did he instigate it? Did he feel threatened? Did they start to jump on him?

We just don't know any of that. What we do know is that he started working for the Boston Postal Service in June 1980. And does that surprise you? But he went to work for the post office? Well, after just the year before pleading guilty to assault and battered. That doesn't surprise me. Really? I would have thought, you know, being that it's a government job, the background check would have been a little more extensive, but maybe it wasn't in 1980, or maybe that didn't preclude him from getting the job.

Well, that's what I was thinking. Plus, I thought back then that you got, when you took the test to become a postal worker, that I thought for consideration because you had a armed service background, that you got like, I don't know what you. call it, but extra points. It helps you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You mean, you, you start off at a higher score someone that hasn't. Okay. That makes sense. And maybe that overrode what, what was on his record, or maybe they didn't even know about it. I don't know. According to the UPI, the local postmaster said Alfred was an average worker. His friend Fred Hatch told the UPI that Alfred was hard drinking, but a pretty nice guy. He could be a hand. handful if he was angry. And I think you kind of got to read between the lines here. Right. He's a hard drinker. But a pretty nice guy while at the same time, if he's angry, he's a handful.

And I think that word handful might be a little bit euphemistic. I think so. Boy, don't we all know somebody like that, though? Oh, absolutely. But it sounds like maybe this guy was picking and choosing his words carefully, he's not coming out and saying that he was a nasty drunk. And you might hear about other people. And I think I've told this story a number of times, but I've had a lot of jobs in my lifetime. And my absolute favorite job was the summer I spent delivering mail for the post office. Yeah, you enjoyed that a lot. I loved it.

I was what was called a rural carrier, I think was the term. I didn't have to wear the uniform, but I did have my own truck. I had my own route. Go in in the morning, sort the mail, put it in order and bundle it up. And then you're just kind of on your own for the rest of the day. Now, I was like 21, 22 years old. So I could do some walking. Yeah, you could.

Today, would I want to be walking a full route? I don't know if I would be, but. Well, if you were doing it all this time, it'd be no big. I'd probably have a really nice route where I'd drive the whole thing. Yeah, you know, you'd bump up by now. Other friends said that Alfred enjoyed hunting and fishing, but his true passion was flying. He enjoyed flying an ultra-light aircraft in the Boston suburbs. Okay.

That's, uh, I can visualize what that, that, uh, plane looks like. Is it made a balsa wood? Not, not that ultra-light. Not that ultra-light. I mean, what are we talking here? Like a little Cessna. Is that what you're thinking? A little bit smaller than a Cessna. I didn't know there was that many planes smaller than a little Cessna. In the early 80s, Alfred met a young woman named Alvira Sanchez in the Philippines. They got married in 1982 when Alfred was 34 and she was 23. The Boston Globe described the marriage as a grim saga of misery and abuse.

It's not really how you want your marriage to be described. No. Can you think of one thing where that description would be good? No. A marriage, a life, anything. A grim saga. Of misery and abuse. Not good.

Alfred and Elvira returned to Massachusetts and lived in a. in Ipswich Motel owned by Alfred's father. This motel is no longer in operation. One family friend told the Boston Globe that they seemed happy during the first year of marriage, but Elvira was very subservient to her husband. Yeah, I like the idea of living in a motel, hotel. Holiday Inn. Yeah, I knew you were going to do that.

But I like the idea of it was like operational. I had a buddy when I was growing up in elementary school. school, his mom and they lived in the hotel because their dad was the hotel manager kind of a thing. Yeah. And actually it was a holiday in that, you know, since I thought about it. But they had one of those like two room suites connected. But it was cool because, you know, he could, we want something to eat. We just go up to the restaurant and they feed us back in the kitchen.

Hit the pool. We go swimming. Yeah, it was kind of cool. But you said something about operational. The motel was operational when they lived. live there. Oh, okay. This wasn't like the walking dead where they just found a motel. Or he owned a vacant, run-down, abandoned motel. Kind of like, what's that, uh, Norman Bates? Yeah. This was later, or this was today when I was saying it's no longer an operation. Yeah.

Elvira was described as a gentle and soft-spoken woman. She was shy, most likely because she didn't speak a lot of English when she first moved to the U.S. she was described as a quote unquote traditional housewife who did all the tasks necessary to run a household. But as time passed, Elvira became accustomed to her new life and began to talk and express her opinions more often at family gatherings. She started earning an income by making plastic pieces attached to clothing to prevent shoplifting. And my first thought is, that this is something that probably didn't go over well with Alfred. He probably wanted to control.

Yes. I think he went somewhere to find a bride because he was looking for someone who would do everything he wanted this woman to do, everything he told her to do. She wouldn't speak a lot of English. So, you know, she wouldn't be able to express her opinions or. or talk to a lot of the family, but eventually she learned how to. Yeah. He just wanted a house servant.

Yes. It's kind of how it sounds. When Alfred's parents sold a motel and moved out of state, the couple moved into a houseboat at the Danvers Yacht Club. Alfred's sister later testified that he didn't want to buy a house because he didn't want to pay interest to banks. Okay. I get that.

nobody wants to give the bank, you know, their money, especially when a large chunk of that payment is interest. It does kind of stink. But, you know, it's kind of a strange marriage. You know, we live in a motel. Now we're living on a houseboat. Yeah. The next thing you know, we're taking a three-hour cruise and then all hell breaks loose. The couple's only child Stephen was born in 1984. A couple of years later, Elvira got a bookkeeping job at a temporary Employment Agency, she had a degree in accounting. So the job was a good fit. She left the company in late 1988.

So the one thing I will say about her, we don't know a lot about her, but she did seem to be a very hard worker. Yeah, willing to work, trying to make some money. And willing to better herself. She got a degree. Few people knew that Alfred and Elvira were having serious marital problems. They separated in early 1987 and Elvira moved to Beverly, Massachusetts to live with a friend. I don't see Alfred being the type of guy that would go around telling everybody that their marriage is in trouble and she moved out.

I just don't see that his, I just don't see somebody like that broadcasting that. So you don't see him as a big sharer? No. Yeah. Now, I'm not getting that vibe either. and a lot of people are like that, right? They don't want to broadcast maybe their, their marital problems,

but you and I worked in an office setting together for a long time. It did. And it wasn't all that uncommon for people who you had gotten to know very well to confide in you or you to confide in them when you were having problems. But, you know, everybody's a little different. They are. Some people like to keep their personal life personal. and not mix it, not let it out at work.

Some people develop friends who are close enough so that they feel that they can really talk to them. Maybe Alfred wasn't that guy. Probably not. Elvira went to court seeking a protective order against Alfred in February. She said that he had caused her physical harm and placed her in fear of imminent physical harm according to the Boston Globe.

And she was granted a restraining order for one year. According to the Boston Globe, at least one employee at the Postal Service heard Alfred make threats against Alvira. Employee Michael Blake told the Globe, I spoke to a union steward who mentioned that he heard what he thought were idle threats that Hunter made about his wife. Some of the guys were anticipating him doing something. And I didn't know how to take the last.

part of that quote. Some of the guys were anticipating him doing something. Was that the union steward doing something because these threats were made? Or were they saying they were anticipating Alfred doing something and maybe making good on his threats? I'm thinking the latter. Yeah. I wasn't sure which one it was. An anonymous co-worker told the Boston Globe, that Alfred complained about his problems with Elvirus saying he said his wife became too Americanized and he didn't like that. He said he had to seek other companionship. He would get tired of one girl and then move on to another.

He just didn't want to pay any money for a divorce. Too Americanized. Well, and how many times have we heard in the stories that we do a man coming out and saying, I don't want to give my money away. Right. In a divorce situation. So I'll stay married and do other things. Or I'll do something else that will solve my problem.

So I don't have to pay. So I don't have to pay. Alfred also reportedly traveled to the Philippines and Thailand to meet women and make pornographic videos with them, which he allegedly showed to people at work. So he's not opening up a lot, but he's showing his own pornographic movies to employees at work. Yeah, let's tell you the different side step than I thought, but I'm just trying to think, I don't think I'd ever be okay with somebody at work coming up to me and saying, hey, what I did this weekend and showing me some homemade porn movie, no. Well, first of all, we're never sitting and eating lunch again. because how am I going to eat my chicken salad?

Look over at you and not, you know, picture that scene in my head. And I don't need that while I'm trying to eat my, uh, my lunch. And I said, you know, over years, you develop these friendships at work, but not to the point where you're showing them yourself bare naked doing pornographic things with women who are not your wife. and I'm sure they knew that these women were not his wife. There's just some things I don't want to see Chuck from the mailroom doing. No, nobody does.

Elvira's lawyer Michael Martel told the Boston Globe that she came to him and said, get me a divorce. She didn't care about receiving child support or other payments. She just wanted to end the marriage. And that tells you how bad it was. Yes. So let's go back to what was it, grim saga of misery and abuse. if she told her attorney that she would forego child support, alimony, she didn't care.

She wanted out of that marriage so badly. I think that just tells you how rough it really was. Alfred and Elvira filed a joint petition for divorce in mid-1988. Their divorce was finalized in November. Elvira was supposed to receive a payment of $2,000, which was a, division of their assets and Alfred was supposed to pay $100 to $150 a week in child support. Well, we know how he felt about making payments. Yes. Now, obviously this math tells me they didn't have a lot of assets if the division resulted in one payment of $2,000. At some point in 1988,

Alfred and Elvira reunited and he moved into the apartment in Beverly with her. But the reconciliation didn't work out. And this is not unheard of. You know, we see it in cases time and time again where, you know, people split for good reason. Sure. All types of different reasons. But then they, they try to reconcile. They try to make it work, whether it's for the good of the, the children, or because they believe they really are in love and they just made a mistake, it does happen. It does. Often. But after being assaulted on, December 31st, 1988. Elvira filed a complaint of physical abuse. Her court paper said that Alfred punched me in the face and held me down to the floor. She reported that he also

pulled her hair and threw me into the bedroom. Years later, Elvira's friend, Santer Carr, testified that Elvira once told her, Alfred beat her and broke her ribs after an argument over what channel to watch. She had also heard him threatened to kill Alvira and anyone who gets in the way, per the Aethall Daily News. Wow. Over what channel to watch? I said put it back on ESPN. I mean, that's scary. This is, you know, I mean, again, he just wants somebody there to cook and clean for him and do everything that he says and go along with whatever he wants to do, right? Don't challenge me. Don't question me. do as I say. And if I want to watch bowling on television, we're watching bowl. That's right. But to beat your wife in any capacity is horrific in my mind. Now we're talking here to the point

where he broke some of her ribs and it was over what television channel to what? Not that any reasoning would be good. Yeah. But that's so trivial. And to threaten that you're going to kill her. and anyone else who gets in the way. But no doubt, this is all foreshadowing, right? Elvira's restraining order was renewed. A few days later in January, 1989, and Alfred was charged with assault and battery. In April, 1989, Elvira moved to an apartment in Danvers with Stephen on May 9th of that year. Alfred took a vacation day at work because he had to go to court.

He was sentenced to two years probation for assault and battering. making threats and violating the restraining order in connection with the December incident. During the hearing, Alfred claimed that Alvira was physically threatening him with her martial art skills per the Boston Globe. Well, we all have some martial arts skills. Not all of us, but some of us. Some of us are very skilled. He claimed that he was watching TV with Stephen when she entered the room and changed

the channel. he asked her not to do that and she allegedly kicked him. I just don't feel like this story is true. No, I think you might be understating it a little bit. I think it's total bullshit. Now, could she have had some martial art skills? Absolutely. Yeah.

I have no idea what skills she had. But after talking about both of these individuals and, you know, saying what their friend said about these interactions and what they were told, you know, if you put them both on a scale, the side for Alfred is going to hit the ground. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Because his BS seems to weigh heavy. Now, what I think he's trying to do is, you know, get out of this tight spot he's in. The judge had no record of Alfred's 1979 conviction because it was not stored in the state's central probation computer. This is because the computer contained records of convictions after 1980. There you go.

That's a problem. And Alfred's records from before 1980 were stored on microfilm. Normally, the computer was supposed to alert officials to check microfilm records, but there was no notation that Alfred's conviction was on microfilm. So we're in a time frame of switching over, right, to using computers, using databases, but it didn't magically happen all at once.

No. You know, maybe they picked a start date. And then maybe they would add some as they could. But a lot of the older ones stayed on, on microfilm. Either way, it wasn't known by the judge.

So Alfred got lucky. Well, it led to a lot of questions about whether he would have been given a jail sentence instead of probation for the assault. And I think you can make a strong argument that had the judge known about the 1979 conviction, the sentence that was imposed probably would have been a lot stiffer. Yeah. And all of this has, you know, a lot of weight behind it, a lot of bearing because Alfred murder. his ex-wife hours after the court hearing. At 9.45 p.m., the police responded to a domestic disturbance call on Lumas Avenue in Danvers.

They entered the apartment and found Elvira's body. She had been shot several times in the head and shoulders. Stephen was also in the apartment, but he was not injured. Neighbor Althea Frazier later testified that she heard an argument and a series of bangs on the night of May 9th. She opened Elvira's door and saw her lying in her own blood. She heard Stephen say, my daddy just shot my mommy. Oh, wow. Other witnesses heard gunshots and saw Alfred flee the scene in a blood spattered gray van.

Not looking good for Alfred. Not looking good at all. I mean, your own son just ID'd you. And we often talk about, you know, how do you leave the scene not covered in in blood. I mean, I'm sure he was covered in blood. The van was covered in blood. Blood's battered van going down the road too, you know. Well, and I think he knew that because around 9.50 p.m. Alfred abandoned his van in a restaurant, parking lot and Peabody and stole another man's car at gunpoint. From there, he drove to the Beverly Airport about 20 miles north of Boston. He arrived at 10.20

P.m. And you just have to wonder, you know, what's going on in his mind at this point? He's killed his ex-wife in front of his son. He's on the run. He carjacks a guy. He's in flight mode. I mean, at this point, he has to know if he doesn't escape all this, he's going to go to prison for the rest of his life, if not worse. So would you say that he's at the point in his mind where he has nothing to lose. Yeah, he's got to be thinking he doesn't have anything to lose at this point. 21 year old Robert Golder, a flight instructor was in the airport office preparing for a flight lesson. He was on the phone when Alfred walked in, pointed a gun at his face and demanded an airplane with a full tank of fuel. In his interview with the Boston Globe, Golder said that Alfred told him,

I want an airplane and I want it now. I don't want to hurt anyone. Golder, told the globe. It wasn't like he had a crazed look on his face, but I knew he meant business. He was handling himself okay. So I don't know exactly what that means. Now, I know what he meant business means. He thought this guy was very serious. This wasn't flippant. It wasn't, you know, a joke. But he was handling himself okay. What do you make of that statement that he was acting in control. Yeah. That he didn't seem to be spasging.

Or, or, you know, have lost control of his thoughts or his faculties, maybe. Alfred walked Golder at gunpoint to a two-seater Cessna 152

and ordered him to prepare the plane for takeoff. Alfred went back to the stolen vehicle and took out a duffel bag in metal box, which Golder assumed was full of ammunition. Alfred told him as quoted by the UPI.

I haven't flown in a couple of years, but I can fly it just start it for me. Okay. Alfred also mentioned that he had just killed some people per the New York Times. So, I mean, you got to put yourself in this golder guy's shoes. I'd be starting it right away to get them away from me. Do what you got to do.

Please don't kill me. Right. You know, so it's self-preservation, right? At that point. I mean, if I could pull the, a gas plug or something, knowing that he'd run out of gas after he got up in the air. Is there a gas plug?

I don't know. You said that as if that was a surefire method. If there was one, I'd be pulling it. I don't know if I've ever told you this, but I do like to fly the Microsoft flight simulator. Oh, really? On my Xbox.

Yeah. I don't have the full yoke and stuff. I just have to use the regular controller. But the Sessna is the one that I fly most often. Yeah. And I can fly it pretty good when I'm up in the air. Okay. Yeah.

The takeoff's not bad. The landing is usually a horrific crash. That's normally where everybody gets hurt. It's very hard to land it. It's the landing. Yes. That does the, yeah. But I think once this guy tells you that he has killed some people,

you're going to give him whatever he wants. And you should. Sure. You're not putting your own life at risk. Before he left, Alfred told Golder, Don't do anything stupid. Don't use the phone. I know who you are. Alfred started flying at 10.30 p.m. The flight lasted about three hours. And we mentioned it right up front, but Alfred shot at the city of Boston within AK-47. And it was explained that, you know, he flew the plane with one hand so he could load and fire the AK-7 out of the side window.

And at some points, it was mentioned that he flew. within 30 to 100 feet of the ground. Just imagine what that would be like to be on the ground and seeing this plane whiz by you and someone shooting at you. Shots being fired. Yeah. You know, when you first think about it, okay, you're up in the air and a Cessna and you're firing down on the city.

Well, could you hit somebody? Yeah, you could, but it would, it would be just pure, you know, um, luck. Bad luck. Yeah. That someone got hit. You're not aiming at anyone. But if you're only 30 feet off the ground, firing an AK-47, you could hit people for sure,

even 100 feet off the ground. I think you could. It was reported that he flew low over I-93 and swooped under the Tobin Bridge over the Mystic River. You ever see the movie Mystic River? Yeah, it's really good. That is a good movie. Yeah, good actors in that one. The Boston police received over 200 calls from people reporting gunshots.

One call came from the suburb of Lynn, where two cars were hit by multiple bullets. A tugboat operator in the Boston Harbor was hit in the side of the face by a shell casing. And you might think that's not that big a deal. But, you know, shell casings eject at a pretty good rate. And, you know, if it's ejected and then falling from this plane, that might do some damage. It's not going to kill you, but it's not going to feel good. No, it's not going to feel good at all. And they come out hot too, don't they?

Yes. Yeah, they're definitely hot. Alfred shot at the Prudential Tower's 50th floor skywalk and flew over Fenway Park as people were leaving a Red Sox game. And you know how many people pack into those Red Sox. Man, what a nightmare. Witnesses at Fenway Park reported that Alfred was dive bombing the plane. It seemed like he was going to crash before he pulled up at the last second and made a couple of turns. Okay, so you're leaving this baseball game.

You had a great time. Fenway Park is an institution, right? Yeah. It's one of the coolest parks, old, but very cool, whether they won or lost. You watch the game, you're leaving. And now a guy in the plane is acting like he's about ready to dive bomb. And he's shooting a gun. Yeah, and if you don't know any better, I'm wondering if people were like,

this is just somebody, like a stunt. A stunt maybe with the dive bombing, but what about with the shooting of the gun? Yeah. Well, I think once you realize it's real bullets, not just the noise, that probably's scaring the heck out of you. So you think that someone would. sanction a stunt over Fenway Park with a dive bomb and shooting of a gun with blanks? I don't think someone would sanction it, but I think some people might think somebody's playing around.

Playing around, you know. Okay, I could understand that. And then you're like, well, no, this is not playing around. Holy shit, you know, we got to find cover. Witness Andrew Smith recalled hearing popping noises coming from the sky. According to the New York Times, he said, about. two seconds later, several shell casings landed all around. I realized that the guy was shooting out of his plane. Nobody believed me at first. I didn't believe it at first. And I think that kind of goes back

to your point. When you first kind of see something like this, whether you think it's a prank or not, it's not really something that you want to believe. Right. That someone is trying to intentionally either crashed the plane or is trying to kill other people by shooting from the plane. You got to ask yourself, why are they doing this? Sure. Alfred flew by the Boston Post Office. One bullet hit a loading dock. The police thought that Alfred was going to end at all at the Boston postal annex, according to deputy police superintendent Robert Hayden, ambulances and firefighters were sent to the annex and the area was blocked off. 1,200 employees were ordered to go to the basement.

And I get to thinking there, right? This guy maybe in his head is in a no-win situation. He sees no way out of it. Right. He is a Boston postal worker. So the thought that he might end it there seems logical. He probably would also know how many people were in that building and maybe how much carnage he could create.

1,200 people going to make the news. Bullet fragments, damaged windows at the Continental Airlines Terminal at the Logan International Airport. Alfred flew directly at the Logan Control Tower twice. Controllers had to flee the tower, and the airport was closed for an hour. Some flights had to be rerouted due to the emergency. Well, you know what you can't have?

Is passenger planes landing? when someone's flying around in the Cessna shooting a gun. No, you can't have that going on. Basically, what the police chose to do was to wait for Alfred to run out of fuel instead of sending the state police helicopter after him due to the public safety risk. So, you know, we're not over a farm field in Iowa. No. We're in Boston.

Yeah, heavily populated area. Right. So, you know, what are you going to do? You're going to shoot down this plane and it's going to crash into a neighborhood, a crowded area. Who knows? Now, I don't know what's going to happen when he runs out of fuel. But what I do know is that if there's no fuel in it, then my thought is the explosion would be smaller. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good observation. Phil Orlandella, a spokesman. for the Massachusetts Port Authority told the New York Times, we didn't know if he was on drugs, drunk, or if he was suicidal. We had not one word of radio contact throughout the flight.

Although Alfred didn't have his flying license, witnesses could tell he had flying experience because of how he was able to maneuver the plane. John Layden and FAA spokesman told the times, we have a very thick handbook on the rules of air traffic control, but there's nothing in there. about what to do if a maniac comes shooting an AK-47 at you in the control tower. Was it anything in the book then? I bet there's something in the book now.

Well, you know, this is something that you and I have talked about. You can plan for a lot of things. You can't plan for every single scenario. No way. At 12.57 a.m. Alfred briefly landed at the Logan International Airport, but he took off again when he saw state. troopers waiting for him. And I don't know what he thought was going to happen. He thought he was just going to land this plane and walk away. Maybe. Hale a cab and, you know, right off into the sunset.

Alfred landed again at 116 a.m. and was immediately arrested. And it was said that he only had five minutes of fuel left. So what I take from that is that he didn't want to end his life. He just didn't know what else to do. Yeah. He ran out of options at that point. Yeah. I think he was completely out of options. Inside the plane, investigators found two shell casings in three live rounds. The gun was not found in the plane. The police assumed Alfred threw it out the window. So that's, that's interesting because depending on where he threw it out, at some point, somebody's going to be walking along and they're going to find an AK-47 in their yard or, you know. Hopefully it hit a hard surface and bust it up.

Yeah, those things are pretty tough. Yeah. They're virtually indestructible. On May 10th, Alfred pleaded not guilty to murder and two counts of armed robbery. He was ordered to be held without bail for psychiatric testing at the Bridgewater State Hospital. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, it absolutely does. I mean, when someone does something like this, how can you not question the state of their mental health?

At the very least, they've got to be evaluated. They have to be tested. Dr. David Swenson, a psychiatrist, told the judge that Alfred appeared suicidal after he surrendered and refused to talk about what happened. Alfred told him he had received psychiatric treatment at a VA facility in Bedford and was taking Larazepam for anxiety. He also said he suffered a head injury earlier in life and experienced visual hallucinations.

Well, that might help explain some of the things that he's been doing. That could. It could. We know head injuries can cause certain things. You know, you have to try to figure out what is meant by, you know, these visual hallucinations. I mean, he's being treated for anxiety, but a lot of us have anxiety and we don't get up in a plane and shoot people, you know, with an AK-47.

No, we do not. June 28th, Alfred was found mentally incompetent to stand trial and was committed to the Bridgewater State Hospital for six months. A psychologist testified that Alfred suffered from deep depression and suicidal tendencies according to the Boston Globe. And we touched on this a little bit in our Patreon episode. What is it that causes a psychiatrist to say yay or nay on? On the competency issue. In the Patreon episode, it took three times for a person to be found competent to stand trial. You know, I mentioned that a lot of us have anxiety.

Well, a lot of us also have deep depression. Sure, we do. Some people have suicidal tendons. Does that, those two things on its own mean that you're not competent to stand trial. Now, let's not forget, this is the 1980. too. So whatever it was back then may not be what it is today. Well, that's a really good point. And we also have very different definitions for certain things and a different knowledge and outlook on mental health in general. Oh, it's majorly improved since then, meaning the knowledge of it.

Oh, yeah. The awareness of it. And maybe today a psychologist would look at Alfred and not say deep depression and suicidal tendencies, but actually give, you know, a very different diagnosis. A more clinical. Yes. At a hearing on December 27th in 1989, Alfred's attorney told a judge that he had been found competent to stand trial. This occurred after a psychologist delivered a confidential report on his competency.

The judge continued the case. and Alfred's lawyer said he would seek a second opinion. So again, we don't have all the information, but time goes by. And then someone says he's competent to stand trial. On January 24th, 1990, Alfred was indicted for first degree murder and armed robbery by a grand jury. On the 26th, Alfred once again pleaded not guilty to first degree murder and two counts of armed robbery. a judge heard testimony from a psychiatrist and ordered Alfred to return to Bridgewater for further evaluation.

I think the judge is doing everything that he possibly can to make sure that Alfred's going to at least get a good evaluation. Yeah, it wasn't in the research, but I almost get the sense that the judge may have looked at this competency evaluation by the psychiatrist and maybe weighed at verse. versus what the judge saw in court and said, you know what, I think we need a little further testing. Yeah.

Well, you also want to protect yourself against future appeals. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. In March 1990, Alfred was once again found competent for trial, but although he was found competent to stand trial, his case experienced significant delays.

A year later, Alfred had still not gone to trial. In April 1991, a judge denied a defense motion, to exclude evidence against Alfred regarding shell casings, a receipt for ammunition, a note on a car dashboard, a rifle storage equipment, four boxes, and 24 ammunition clips seized from Alfred's van. Well, not too hard to figure out why the defense would want all of that excluded, right?

Sounds pretty damage. Those are definitely items you don't want to be part of your case moving forward. Yeah, if you can get them excluded, you would want to. but I don't know why they would be excluded. Alfred's trial finally started on March 4th, 1992, nearly a year after the motion was denied, and almost three years after the shooting. The defense was led by Lawrence McGuire,

and the prosecution was led by assistant district attorney Brian O'Keefe. Lawrence McGuire told the jury that Alfred was mentally unstable after the divorce, according to the, Athol Daily News, he became extremely depressed. His appearance was slovenly, and he occasionally lived in a van down by the river. Alfred admitted to shooting Elvira, but the defense argued that his ability to reason was diminished by depression. The defense wanted a second-degree murder conviction due to Alfred's mental instability. And you could definitely see why the defense would try to take this route.

Of course. Pretty hard to get out from under the evidence, right? He flew the plane. He shot from the plane. They found all this stuff in his van. They could tie it all to him. So what can you do other than trying to say that he did it, but he did it because of this?

Yeah. He didn't plan it. But assistant DA Brian O'Keefe argued that the evidence did show Alfred planned the crime. On the day of the shooting, Alfred retrieved an AK-47 from the basement of his mother's thrift store in New Hampshire. He also purchased ammunition. O'Keefe told the jury that Alfred entered Elvira's apartment and told Stephen to go to his room. Stephen heard his mom and dad arguing, then heard gunshots. He came out of his room and found Elvira dead. And how horrible for this little boy. Yeah, I'm sure it's, it has stuck with him ever since that day. And will forever. And as we often talk

about, right, in these domestic violence situations, it's often the children who end up losing both parents, right? One who is sometimes killed and the other who goes to prison, let's say, for the rest of their life. Dr. Mark Whaley testified that Alfred told him the 19, 1989 incident reminded him of how he felt after his fellow soldiers were killed in Vietnam. And he threw a grenade into a village because he was angry. In both incidents, Alfred felt disconnected from reality. According to the recorder, Alfred said he felt like he was in a cartoon. Feel like you're in a cartoon.

You ever feel like you're in a cartoon? No, no, I don't. But like I said, I wasn't in Vietnam. I would have not wanted to go to Vietnam. And I can only imagine the horrors, the atrocities that, you know, the soldiers saw. Some of them they committed. We know that. Right.

But, you know, seeing someone who you grew to know and develop a friendship killed right next to you. What's that do to you? It's going to play with you. It's going to mess you up. No, I'm not saying that to excuse anything that Alfred did, but a lot of those guys came back pretty messed up. They did. And didn't really get any help for it. No. No, a lot of them did not. Dr. Whaley testified that he didn't believe Alfred was capable of planning the crime. However, Dr. Martin Kelly testified for the prosecution that Alfred did have the ability to premeditate despite his mental illness.

Just another shocker that we have two mental health experts disagreeing, one for the defense and one for the prosecution. Finally, Stephen's written testimony was presented in court. Stephen wrote that he was watching TV when he heard a knock on the door. ADA O'Keefe read the following statement, which was published by the daily item. I answered the door and it was daddy. He came in and told me to go to my room. I did.

I heard arguing and loud talking between my mommy and daddy. It lasted for a few minutes. Then I heard a number of gunshots. I know gunshots because I had been target shooting many times with my daddy at his mother's house in New Hampshire. And if you're in that jury box hearing the words of Stephen, how powerful would that be? Very powerful. On March 13th, 1992, Alfred was found guilty of first-degree murder

and two counts of assault with a dangerous weapon. He was sentenced to life without parole in three to five years for the other offenses. Now, he filed an appeal after his conviction. On January 26, 1994, the state Supreme Judicial Court overturned Alfred's conviction. The court ruled that the judge made a critical error by not conducting a hearing on whether certain incriminating testimony could be admitted at trial.

The judge allowed the jury to hear testimony from two inmates who were in custody with Alfred. They testified that Alfred said he killed his wife because he was angry with her. One witness said Alfred claimed Elvira cheated on him. Alfred made these statements on May 10, 1989, while he was being transported to the Bridgewater State Hospital. You know, sometimes the job of the judge is much harder than we think it is. Yeah, I was thinking that exact same thing because, you know, you think a judge has to rule on all these different motions, whether to include or exclude evidence or testimony. And, you know, they're always second guest on appeal.

and in this case, it was determined that the judge aired. Now, the defense argued that the statements should have been disqualified because Alfred was mentally incompetent at that time. They noted that the court found him mentally incompetent a month after he made these statements. So he had to be retried. And Alfred's retrial started on November 7th, 1995. Once again, the central issue was Alfred's state of mind at the time of, the murder. Defense attorney James

Sultan told the court that Alfred suffered from PTSD. According to the daily item, Sultan said that Alfred's time in Vietnam, shaped his mental state and left him with a mental disorder responsible for this terrible

tragedy that occurred 20 years later. So he's taking a little bit of a different tact, I think, than the other original defense attorney. He's focusing more on his time in Vietnam and, you know, possible PTSD that he suffered. I think that could be a very good route to go. It could be. The prosecution again argued that

Alfred planned to murder Elvira. Joseph Christophero testified that Alfred discussed the crime. When they were incarcerated together, Alfred said he believed Elvira was unfaithful. Alfred also mentioned that during his flight, he considered crashing into the Logan International Airport Control Tower, but he didn't want to hurt innocent people. It's kind of conflicting, though, right? If you're shooting a gun out of your window. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. The likelihood that you're going to hurt innocent people, if you're indiscriminately firing an AK-47, 30 feet, 100 feet off the ground, there's a really good chance. going to hurt somebody's, right? On November 20th, 1995, Alfred was convicted of first-degree murder a second time. He was immediately sentenced to life without parole. His appeal was denied in 1998. After this, it was pretty difficult to find information about any additional appeals or really is time in prison.

And that's not unusual. You know, once the case kind of dies down for the lack of a better term, There's not always that much reporting on it. No. But what happened here is something that we see a lot. You know, a higher court finds something was wrong with the trial. And I understand that. That's what they were there for.

There's a retrial. Now, he was found guilty, the second time received the same sentence, but that's kind of how the system is designed to work, right? If it's determined that the trial wasn't quote unquote fair, okay, we got to do it again. And that's what happened and the same outcome occurred. The inmate search page on the Massachusetts Department of Correction website lists Alfred's

last custody status date as December 11, 2001 at the Massachusetts Correctional Institution, Norfolk. So it seems as if he's still alive, but it's kind of hard to tell sometimes from those. if he is alive, he'd be around 76 years old. Yeah. Wow. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, I thought it was a very interesting case from a number of angles. You know, first, you have this guy who was in Vietnam, maybe suffered some PTSD.

I would say likely probably did. I think a lot of guys that went over there did. Oh, I think for sure. And like you said, not many of them probably got the treatment they needed. Right. But he was also a guy who was very controlling, abusive. You know, you mentioned it. He wanted a wife who was completely subservient to him.

And it was almost like over time when she started to learn English and she started to work and she started to voice her opinions. That upset him. Yeah, he didn't like that. Because that's not what he signed on for. And when she left, it was almost like that was, that was it. That was the last straw. Oh, I'm sure he was thinking how, how dare you leave me. Yeah.

You know, I'm the one in control. That's right. And you've taken my control away from me. And I'm amazed at how many of these cases come back to that theme. Yeah. Of control. These individuals, they like to be in control. and when they're not, it's almost like they spin out of control themselves.

I mean, that's why we hear a lot about these type of cases because the individual trying to control their partner and it doesn't go the way they would want it to. Well, and as soon as it gets out of the box, right, they want it inside this predefined box. And once it gets outside, whether, you know, the person leaves them, is not putting up with their BS anymore, whatever it is, then their control is broken. Yeah. And they lash out. It seems to be what happened.

That's why I get so concerned anytime I hear about someone being so controlling in a relationship. I just think it is not normally good. It all, it invariably most of the time ends up badly. Of course. Yeah. And then you have this guy who, you know, had taken some flying lessons, kind of hijacks a Cessna. He's flying around.

He's dive bombing Finway Park. He's shooting an AK-47 out of the planes. So bizarre. It is a very bizarre story. And then you get to the trial. And it, as it often does, comes down to. you know, this individual's state of mind. Mental health professionals had differing opinions on the extent to which Alfred's mental

illness impaired his ability to plan the murder. And I'm always fascinated by that. They can agree that maybe he has a mental illness. But they disagreed on whether he could still plan the murder out and it be premeditated. And I think they both had good argument points. Well, his defense argued that he was so mentally ill. He wasn't capable of premeditation. But we know that multiple juries disagree and found that he plotted to kill Elvira,

most likely because, as we said, he just couldn't cope with the divorce and maybe some of the loss of control. And the fact that he didn't want to pay that money out either. Oh, yeah, that's a great point. That always enters into it as well. But that's it for our episode on Alfred Hunter. And strangely, we have no voicemails and no mailback this week. I'm a little sad. Are you?

I know that you're going to miss out on hearing people that they're team gibby. Yes. Actually, we had a lot of voicemails, but they were all team gibby. So I just deleted them. No, that's not what happened. You burn all the Twizzlers that came in the mail. You know, no, no mail today. I threw the Twizzlers out in the street and just let the kids.

It's Halloween coming up. You're like, I got a lot of Twizzlers to give out this Halloween at this house. That's actually a really good idea. I should just save up all the Twizzlers that people send you and just, I just pile them on the porch. I won't even have to answer the door. Just as a sign that says, hey, grab all the Twizzlers, grab all of Gibby's Twizzlers you want. Yeah. Go to town.

all right buddy that is it for another episode of true crime all the time so for mike and gibby stay safe and keep your own time ticking