True Crime All The Time - Alton Nolen

Episode Date: January 16, 2017

In 2014, Alton Nolen committed one of the most shocking acts of workplace revenge violence in recent history. Join Gibby and I as we walk through the details of the case, the possible motives, the religious and racial aspects that caused a media frenzy. We have several big announcements in this episode that you do not want to miss! Visit our website at http://truecrimeallthetime.com and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook/truecrimeallthetime. You can help support the show on our Patreon page for as little as $2 per month. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome, everyone, to episode 10 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. Gibby is in the studio. What's going on? That's a good day, man. It's always a good day when we're recording. I like being in the studio right now. It's very cold outside. Yeah, it's what, 10 degrees where we are?

Something like that. Maybe a little chillier. Yeah, it's very cold. So a couple of shoutouts. I got to give a shout out to Cassie Pearson. She did a great Scott Peterson. meme and Gibi everybody knows

how much we love memes. I love those memes. Yeah. I do. And she did a great job. We've got to keep them coming. We love them. We didn't even know what a meme was.

I don't think before we started this podcast and now we're infatuated with memes. Yeah, Jordan got us rolling on them. Yep. Jordan started this whole meme craze for us. Then a very special shout out to Sarah. Sarah's our newest Patreon supporter. And I can't thank you enough.

Sarah for deciding to financially support the show, it really makes a big difference. So you too can help support the show for as little as $2 a month by going to our Patreon page. You'll find the Patreon link and all of our contact information on our website at Truecrime all the time.com. If you love the show, please remember to rate, review us on iTunes. So we have a few big announcements to make. The first is that the Wednesday after this episode airs, we will be releasing our first listener co-hosted episode.

It will basically be very similar to our regular episodes, but we'll have a T-Cat listener on with us who is from the area and familiar with the case, and they should be able to add some great information to the episode. I have four or five other people that have expressed interest in doing this. If you're out there listening and you have a lesser known case that you're familiar with or that occurred in your area and you think you'd like to come on with us and be part of this new listener co-hosted episode segment, definitely reach out to us. I don't know exactly how often we'll do this.

A lot of it will depend on what kind of demand. we have but you know we want to get this first one out there and see what people think of it so the second announcement is is pretty big and it's that gibby and i are starting a new podcast the podcast shares the name true crime all the time but this one is unsolved so basically it's the same logo we're just it just has a stamp on it that says unsolved that kind of runs through the the the and what we did is we made the decision that we're going to stick with solved cases on the regular T-Cat show that we've been doing and then we're just going to start a new T-Cat unsolved that looks strictly at unsolved cases. So if all goes according to plan, the first episode will drop on

Sunday the 22nd. The show should be out on iTunes sometime this week for you to subscribe to, but we will definitely make the announcement again on next week's true crime all the time. Like I said, it'll have the same logo. It'll just have an unsolved stamp running through it. So for all of you out there on social media, you know, that keeps saying you wish we would put out more episodes, hopefully this will help satisfy that true crime craving. I know we're we're really excited about it. Something we've talked about for a little while, and we hope you like it. And then the last announcement is that we should be offering up some true crime all the time

merchandise for sale in the near future. So definitely be on the lookout for that announcement on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. I'm sure we'll make an announcement on the podcast episode right before we're ready. to unveil. But a lot of people have been asking for merchandise, and we're going to get some. Nothing better than to listen to your true crime all the time while you're sipping a cup of coffee out of your true crime all the time mug.

You know what I found? I'm going to give a top, this is top secret, but what I found was what they call a rescue whistle for people to put on their keychain. Oh, the one of high-pitched noise thing? Yeah, if they run into, any problems and it's going to say true crime all the time. So, I mean, what goes better with, you just listen to a scary episode of true crime all the time. You've got to go out. It's dark at night.

You've got your rescue whistle attached to your key ring. That's a no-brainer right there. Right there. All right. Gibby, are you ready to get into this bizarre true crime story? I am. It's definitely a little different. It's different for us in a couple of ways. You know, number one, it's a case of workplace violence, and we haven't done one of those. There's a lot of them out there, and I'm sure this won't be the last one that we do. It is a little different for us. So today we are talking about the case of Alton Nolan, who in 2014 would commit a very brutal homicidal rampage

at the place that he worked. You know, strangely, and Gibby, you and I talked about this before we went on air. This is the second story. We're 10 episodes in, and this is the second story that we're doing on a man named Alton. And to me, that's not a name that I hear a lot.

No, it's a pretty rare name. It's a kind of interesting fact, toyed, I guess. Yeah, the fact that you get two murderers. with that name is pretty bizarre. Yeah. So a little bit about Alton Nolan. He was born in 1984. And he grew up in a very rough neighborhood of Ida Bell, Oklahoma.

Gibby, I don't know if you looked at anything, but I did a little bit of research on Idabell because I'd never heard of it. I'm not overly familiar with Oklahoma. So I wanted to do a little bit of research on it. but, you know, it's a small town. Looks like maybe seven to 10,000 people. Haven't been there. Been to Oklahoma.

So one place you have not been. I've been in Oklahoma, but, you know, Oklahoma City. But, yeah, never heard of the place. Yeah, I hadn't either. It's located in the southeast corner of the state. One thing that I did read about Ida Bell was that it had some rough parts to it. Okay. And Alton Nolan would grow up in this kind of rough part of Ida Bell that apparently there was a lot of crime and there were a lot of murders that took place.

So another person that grew up in a tough area, tough neighborhood, probably a tough childhood, I'm guessing. Yeah, I could not find a lot about his childhood, which we found in a lot of cases. We've been able to detail out people's childhoods. much better in some of our other cases. But, you know, some of the things that I did find were that, you know, so as I said, this is a very, very small town, seven to ten thousand people. Right. And it had a lot of murders.

So that's pretty strange for usually, such a low populated area. Yeah, for such a low population. And childhood friends later on after the incident that we're going to talk about, they would say that Alton was filled with anger and resentment and that he had a temper and a tendency towards violence from a very early age. And that tends to come from the way you're raised. Yeah. Upbring usually has something in your early life causes that. Right. I mean, you're talking nature versus nurture there and we don't know exactly what it was. But obviously there was something in him that caused him to be filled with a lot of anger.

anger and resentment. But a very interesting fact about this very small town of Ida Bell was that two of Alton's childhood friends would also turn out to be murderers. Really? Yeah. I found it very strange. So he had a friend that was found guilty. So these are childhood friends that are later turned out to be murderers. He had one friend that was found guilty of murder and 2013 having killed his boss at a sonic restaurant. So another workplace violence? Yeah. And that's strange.

Right. So a little connection there. Apparently, he shot her multiple times, starting with a point blank shot to the back of her head. He stole the day's deposits for the sonic restaurant that she had on her. That's the first friend. Right. So this friend was, he ultimately pled guilty.

and was sentenced to life, and I assume he's still for $9,000. Yeah. Yeah. And we can talk about the craziness of that, but makes a lot of sense. So the second friend, childhood friend that he had,

murdered a woman in her bathtub. And apparently he and another person accomplice stabbed this woman multiple times and killed her. I just found it very strange. that these are childhood friends of his. They grew up in the same neighborhood. And apparently they grew up in the same situation. So clearly this was a pretty rough neck of the woods, I'm guessing.

By all indications. I don't know the areas. I don't know if you call it projects. I don't know if you call it just the neighborhood. But for three people that knew each other that ended up committing these crimes like that. Well, that would be weird. to me that would be weird in a big town, but in a town the size of

7,000 to 8,000, 9,000, whatever it is, to have three childhood friends, there's something there. Yeah, I don't have any childhood friends that have done anything like that, right? Yeah. Yeah, that we know of. That we know.

But, I mean, I do know and have, you know, I've known people either because I worked with them or lived across in the same, or live across straight or in the same neighborhood with them that's committed murder. Right. Right. You know, we haven't got into those. We've kind of dust over a few of them.

Right, but these weren't your childhood friends. That, you know, I used to play football with or anything like that. So let's start off, you know, as we like to do playing clips. Let's start off with the 911 call. And then we'll talk about what we hear. Up to door. More 911. 911.

Where's your emergency? Law and foods. More Oklahoma. Oklahoma 216 North East 12th Street. We have someone attacking someone in the building. I was just informed. I'm in the first place. Okay, where are they at?

Inside, are they in the office? They're in the office. Front office of the building. We can hear a lot of screaming. We're actually in a different office, but someone just coming here yelling. 315. Okay, do you know where they're at in the building? In the front of the building, there's our main entrance.

Okay. know where he is at in the plant we we know that he's loose he has stabbed someone yeah he's got met a phone route to them okay so do you know on laceration bond 216 go ahead first 216 northeast well I'm gonna put you on speaker phone one second okay stand by on a map page 16 oh h time out okay so we don't know where the person went he went through our front office went to the shipping office He stabbed a woman in our customer service department. Okay, did he know her?

Do you know? Is that who the agent? Is he an employee? She is an employee, yeah. Okay, thank you. Lock that door. Yeah, go ahead and lock everybody and know if you can. Yeah, we're trying.

Can you hear this in the background? Is that him? He's back? Yeah, it sounds like he's running around out here. Okay. And that's a gunshot. Got gunshot. Sure.

He is responding to the Von Pooze. If I did not have gunshots. Okay, do you know what he's at now? He's in the hallway outside of the center of the building. He's in the hallway in the center of the building. We can hear the 911 call and we hear them talking about Alton Nolan going through the Vaughn Foods. Right.

And ultimately kind of ending up with gunshots. So let's talk a little bit about what happened in, I mean, I don't, this didn't, this didn't take very long. No, it happened fairly fast. Right. Alton Nolan enters the Von Foods. And he immediately encounters a 54-year-old Colleen Hufford. Right. in the

one I think some type of administrative office what I got from the research Gibby and correct me

as we go but he he encountered her like from behind like came up on her from behind right and

completely severed her head with a knife you know like probably reaching around yeah I think he you know

so you know he had a pairing knife and he reached around and slit the neck and then continued to sever the head. We're going to talk about what kind of story this became, but, I mean, this was not to be too graphic, but it was a decapitation, right? It was a beheading, if you want to call it that. Right. So a little bit about Colleen. She was from Moore, Oklahoma. She was born in Germany,

probably on an Air Force base. It doesn't say that. But she had lived in Montana and was raised in Montana. She married her husband in Montana. And then they settled in Moore, Oklahoma. They had a daughter. Colleen was an avid hockey fan. I guess what I read is above all,

she just had a real joy of life. And she was especially close with her family. and most of all her granddaughter. So we, you know, again, we try to talk about the victims as much as we can because we don't want to make all of these podcasts just about the person that perpetrates the criminal act. So he's decapitated Colleen Hufford. And from there, he runs into another. employee. Yeah. So I mean, so that I don't know, do you want to step back a little bit, talk about how it brewed up to this point? Yeah, we, we definitely can. You know, there, there was a couple of things

and I've got it a little farther down in my notes. Right. But we can we can do it now because there was differing different reasons that led up to this altercation or it's not an altercation. It's a rampage. Right. Originally, the police would put out a statement that said that Nolan had just been terminated from the Vaughn Foods because he worked there. So this is September 2014. And right after this happens, they put out a statement saying he'd been terminated. But later on, they would correct that from the research that I did and say that he had been suspended. So, you've got that that's that's one factor and then i think the factor that you're probably referring to the most is his issues with Tracy Johnson yeah basically the reason he got suspended

so what do we know we know that he is employed there he's he's supposed to be working and Tracy is been on the job for three or four days right she she just was released from prison. She did some, and it's unrelated, but, you know, it's a good point to bring out. You know, she just came out of prison from some check fraud issues, and she served some time for that. This is her first job, and she's, I believe this is her fourth day into it, and she's working on the assembly line, and she sees Alton, you know, he's there, but he's goofing off, he's not working. and she's not afraid to say something. And she says, you know, you need to do your job, get busy.

I'm not just standing around and goofing off. She basically tells them, you know, you're lazy. Well, of course, he doesn't like that. And so he, you know, he makes some comments and make some racial, racial comments towards her. Basically, you know, says something like, you know, I don't like white people and a few other. comments.

So, you know. That's what that's that's that what leads to her. Right. She goes to HR files that complaint. Right. Somebody else also files a complaint. Um, so then they pull him in to get his story. And at that point, you know, he gives his stories well.

And at that point, they decide to put him on suspension. So he, he's told to leave. Because one thing we haven't talked about. So Alton Coleman, there I go. I knew I was going to say Alton Coleman. See, you thought was going to be me. I know, I did think it was going to be you. Alton Nolan was Muslim.

He was. And there was a lot of information that he had been trying to convert some of his fellow employees. And I don't know if that also led to the suspension or was a contributing factor. I think it was a combination that he was making religious comments. and also making racial comments. Right. So it was a combination of. And we're going to talk a lot more about the fact that he's Muslim

and how that plays into the story because it becomes a huge fact. After fact. Yeah. Yeah. So he leaves, goes home, and he returns within 15 minutes. So he's not gone very long, right? No. And I have that he brings back a large bladed knife.

You said pairing knife. Yeah. I think pairing knife, that's something that I use a little. I know. I know. I know. Everything that I read, he went home and got a pairing knife. So I don't know what his pairing knife look like.

Right. What I have is a large bladed knife that you'd use to cut up like heads of lettuce. Right. So a chef's knife, chopping knife, or whatever they call that. I don't know. I think it would, not that you couldn't do it, but a pairing knife would have maybe be a little tough. Right. I mean, you could do that with anything that's sharp enough, I guess.

But, you know, there's no pictures of the. evidence out here. So there's no way for us to actually see the size of the... Yeah, we're just going by... But we're just going off with the different media stories released. But I think the key is that, you know, he's pissed off. Yeah. He's just been suspended. He goes home, gets a knife, because we know that. And at this point, he returns to Vaughn Foods for revenge. Right. I think that's pretty well known. And he's got a history of, like you said, right? He's got a history of rage, according to his friends, right, you know, where he grew up. And then, and I don't know when we're going to dive into it, but he's got a history. And I think let's, let's finish with the

actual, what happens at Vaughn Foods. And then we're going to talk about his history and some of the other things. But because he's, he's already gone back. We already talked about Colleen Hufford. And it was important that you took that detour because the next person that, he encounters is Tracy Johnson. Right. And that's the reason why I know that's the reason why you wanted to take that detour because it sets it up. My understanding is that he had three targets. The first one was Tracy Johnson. That's the individual that had in his eyes probably gotten him suspended. The other two, I couldn't find their names. And maybe you have them,

but I didn't have them. But it is irrelevant. because they were not injured. He never got far enough to get to them in the plant. I think he wanted to go after the two individuals that made the complaint and then the HR person. And that would make sense because in his mind, if it's revenge and it's all about this suspension, it's the people that paused it and it's the people that carried it out.

But let's go back to calling Hufford because she wasn't a part of any of it. No, she was just in a little saying in the wrong place. Yeah, at the wrong time. She just happened to be the first person that he encountered. And because of that, unfortunately, she lost her life. Right. And so the interesting part is so, you know,

he does what he did to her. He comes up behind from her, slits the throat, cuts the head off. off, right? However that motion happened, she put up a struggle. I mean, she, she kicked over some chairs in the office. I can't imagine that anybody wouldn't. Right. Yeah. And you could tell, in the room she was in, it was, you could tell there was a little bit of struggle. So meanwhile, you know, Tracy, she's back in the locker room, changing clothes, end of her shift. And she can hear the screaming, she says that she doesn't realize she thinks it was just people messing around. She didn't know something severe.

So she hears that, and then she comes out and she walks into that office and she sees the first victim laying there, but you can't tell that the head's been severed, right? You just see a lot of blood. I imagine it had to have been a lot of blood. So like it would anybody, it freaked her out. And there was a lot of commotion going on. She says at that point, she went back to the locker room to retrieve something. And then she wanted to go back and sit with the victim until help arrived.

On her way to returning back to that office, that's when she came face-to-face with Alton. And at that point, that's when, you know, you've got more details, but I believe that's, that's the point when he rushes to her and she basically says that he's five feet away, but once he makes his move, it's like within a second and a half, two seconds, he's on her and she freezes because she just doesn't know how to react to it. And within that time, he takes the knife to her right side of her neck. Yeah. I mean, he's trying to do the same thing. Yeah, he's trying to do the same thing and he tries to, he's millimeters away from hitting the major artery, right? And at that point, that's when the other co-worker slash part-time sheriff takes his shot. Yeah, so he, he slashed

Tracy up. Yeah. He wanted to do the same thing to her that he had just done to call him. but as you said, and it was actually the company CEO, Mark Vaughn, so Vaughn, Vaughn Foods. He's obviously family, but he happened to be a reserve deputy with the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Department. And for whatever reason, he had a rifle. I don't know if he kept it for protection in the office, but he shot Nolan with the rifle, and that's what stopped the attack. And you can hear that on the 911 because there's some loud pops

and somebody says, oh, those are gunshots. You know, getting back to Tracy. And I guess Alton Olin, for that matter, they were hospitalized, but ultimately they both survived. Yeah, I think that's kind of strange.

You know, I think for both of them, they were in the same hospital. And it's small town. I'm, you know, I have a town of Moore, right? more Oklahoma. More Oklahoma. So I'm guessing it's probably doesn't have a lot of hospitals. This is probably the trauma one center that they have in the area.

I don't know. We're going to get in trouble now because everybody will let us know. Every time we talk about towns, people say we're ignorant because we don't know how big they are. You know, most towns have their trauma one centers, the people that they would send this type of medical emergency to. And Tracy makes a comment that she was uneasy knowing that the person that tried to kill her was just, you know, a few doors down. wouldn't you be absolutely i would be there's no doubt so so Tracy does make a recovery and we actually

have a clip of her so let's listen to that he started slicing my neck and got a hold of my face and got a hold of my right index finger and wouldn't stop and i'm screaming for help and didn't think anybody was going to come around. He got a millimeter away from my jugular cord. And to me, it would happen quickly, but it seemed to last forever. So that's, I mean, that's scary. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine, I can only imagine what it must have been like for her. And you mentioned kind of freezing. And to see what she saw in the amount of blood and then to see this man now coming after her, I think a lot of people not trained in that type of response would do the same thing. Yeah.

I mean, I have a feeling she's kind of a, she can be tough or stand her ground, you know, because she was able, she wasn't afraid to speak her mind to him about him not doing his job and for him to quit being lazy. Which we all want to do. Yeah, well. From time to time. Right. So she didn't have that problem speaking of this.

And I don't know if that's because she was new on the job and she didn't want to be worry about losing her job because someone wasn't doing their share or because, you know, like I said, she did do a small stent in prison, you know, and maybe that toughened her up a little bit. And she felt that, you know, she wasn't going to let anybody, you know, railroad her.

And maybe it's what saved her life, too. It might have. Maybe she was tough. And even though she froze for a while, she didn't let him. Now, also, you got to give credit to Mark Vaughn because without him, she probably does not survive. Yeah, I don't believe she would be here today.

And I think she understands that too. And really, if you think about it, not just her. If Mark Vaughn doesn't have this rifle and is able to put Alton Nolan down, I mean, we're probably talking about... Three or four other people. Yeah, many more people. Right.

So it was a good guy with a gun that stopped a bad guy, which is also a podcast that may be coming out soon. Just to throw that out there. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think Tracy today, I mean, she still fills the blame for some of this. Because she's the one that made the initial complaint against him. And she feels that, you know, this is what caused his rage. And so I think she feels, you know, bad because what happened to, And I think that's natural, but not warranted, right? I mean, she didn't, her actions led to this, but they shouldn't have.

Right. Right. She didn't, she didn't bring this on. No, it wasn't her fault. Solely on the shoulders of Alton Nolan and his decision making. So now I think, Gibby, we get to the criminal record because you, you kind of touched on a little bit. And it's important to talk about.

Alton Nolan because he did have a criminal record. He was convicted on drug charges. And I know you've, you've got some good notes on the years and stuff, but what was that? 2000? Well, yeah. Probably multiple. Multiple ones. I mean, the first thing was that, you know, he was arrested in 2006 for having cocaine and the intent to distribute it. So that's his first thing on his record. And that's a pretty big, I mean, cocaine and trying to distribute it. Well, yeah, when you get intent to distribute, that's usually pretty serious. And then he gets arrested again in 2009 for possession of marijuana, which is really today not as big as it used to be.

Oh, hell, it's legal in a lot of places. So many states have it legal. But he gets arrested for possession of marijuana and also driving with a suspension license. But then in 2010, that's the big one. This is the big one. And this is the one I really want to talk about because there's some fascinating aspects to this one. He has a traffic stop. He decides that.

And again, you have more information on this one, but it's a female officer, right? Yes. It is a female officer that stops him. And, you know, they, I don't have the specifics on it, but the end result is that he overpowers her, beats her up, or he's charged with batter. Yeah, battery assault. This altercation with the police officer. We're going to hear from this police officer a little bit, but at this point, she could have shot him.

And she didn't because he kind of beat her up and fled. That was a 12-hour manhunt. Yeah, and then ensues this 12-hour man hunt. He's ultimately captured. But he escapes detention in 2011, but he ultimately serves two years of a six-year sentence. And he's released in 2013. But I want to go back to this 2010 incident because it is really interesting.

And I've got a clip of the police officer talking about her interaction with Nolan. It's not something that any law enforcement officer wants to do. But at the time when we struggled, there was a brief. flash of time that I would have actually had the opportunity to do that and would have been within my rights to do that. And of course, looking back, if there was any way, I could have known that and could have prevented the tragedies that happened two days ago. I definitely would have done that.

Well, I had planned to take the day off, so I was in the yard, in the garden, and Channel 4 called me, and our local Channel 4 here in town, and they called me and told me what was going on and they said, you know, this is the same guy. We're looking at OSCN.net and we're looking and seeing that this guy is the same one that assaulted a trooper back in October of 2010 out by the town of Langston. And we had a big manhunt for him. And I said, that was me. I was the trooper that he assaulted. And as soon as I realized what was going on and they said that he had possibly beheaded somebody, I mean, I got goosebumps all over my bodies. All I could do is just thank God that he didn't kill me when he had the chance to do so. And then of course later, as I began to think

about it, then I was just overcome with guilt that I didn't take the opportunity to kill him when I had the chance to do so. So, Gabby, I mean, you can really hear in her voice that you can hear the struggle with the fact that she possibly could have killed this man back in 2010 when he assaulted her, that would have ultimately meant that the killing that happened in 2014 would not have occurred. She says she was well within her rights and she would have been because, you know, you saw the police officer and most of the time you're going to get shot. But she didn't for whatever reason.

Obviously, there was no way for her to know that these events were going to unfold four years later. And I feel bad for her because you can you can tell that she's really carrying around a lot of guilt about this. And again, kind of like we talked about Tracy Johnson, it's probably hard not to feel some guilt in these situations. But ultimately, the decision making of Alton Nolan is what led to the incident in 2014. all these things that happened before, although both the police woman and Tracy Johnson may feel some guilt about it.

Right. There's really, they shouldn't. No, he was just a bad individual, right? I mean, like you said, he did his time. He was also ordered to do anger management classes, you know, upon his release. And I don't know if he completed those. Clearly he didn't learn anything from him. Yeah, if he did complete them,

they didn't help. And then we know that, you know, the previous job before working at Vaughn, he also was released from that job for having personnel issues. I don't really know the details in that. Clearly, he had a track record of issues. So here's a question for you. How's he getting all these jobs with this string, this record that he's got? Well, I'm wondering because he had a criminal history and we know pretty extensive.

I mean, this isn't like I had a bunch of parking tickets and I had a marijuana charge. I mean, he had a pretty. Yeah, I mean, he was wanted for salting a police officer. Yeah, that's a pretty extensive record. And then we also know, and I'm not trying to, I keep bringing it up, but I don't mean to bring it up in that way. But Tracy did have a slight, right, criminal history. So maybe Vaughn foods. Just didn't do a background check.

Right. Or maybe they did. Or maybe they were trying to do community service by hiring people coming out of jail to give them a fresh start. Or maybe in that area for the wages that they paid. Maybe that was the type of workers that they received. I don't know. I mean, who knows, right? We're not from the area.

We don't know. Yeah, we're going to get a lot of emails about. Well, I just think maybe it's more of a work-release type of a, maybe they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they're going with the fact that they probably didn't do background checks, like a background check. Yeah. We're only talking about two and a half years ago. Well, I was, it was hard to get a job today without most places without some form of background check. But maybe, you know, it's a smaller outfit. They're not publicly traded probably.

So they're not required to do. Yeah, it's a family business. Family business. They're probably not required to do background check. So Gibby, now we're in the aftermath stage of this incident. And it's, you know, the incident was bad. There's no way around that. Terrible.

What, what Alton Nolan did was, was just horrible. He ruined people's lives. I mean, he killed a woman. And then he ruined, you know, even, you know, Tracy's life was probably, I don't want to call it ruined, but it was, I'm sure she was scarred for life. and even people that weren't hurt, I imagine they had, you know, it affected them emotionally. Tracy's even said that, you know,

she attempted to try to go back to work, but she basically went to work, you know, when she returned, she walked in and basically ran out and went home and decided to never return again. And I get that. I don't know, to go through what she went through, to see what she saw. I don't know how you could ever.

go back to that place. I think it'd be tough to go back. Yeah. Yeah. And clearly, I mean, she, she couldn't thank the CEO of the Mark Vaughn. She was absolutely so thankful for what he did. But even though he's there, she still just couldn't go there anymore after her going what she went through. So I get that. I don't blame her one. And I don't know how you really return to any workplace after going through that. And I don't know if she has or not. since then, I think it would be difficult to ever feel safe anywhere for that. In the aftermath, what became the biggest issue of this case was Nolan's religion. Well, sure, right? You had the religion part because he did get in trouble at work for talking

about, you know, trying to convert people to become Muslims. Right. At the same time, he was also saying, he doesn't like white people, right? So he's, so, So you got the race aspect to it as well. Right. And there's one thing that, and I save this to the end, you know, towards the end of the podcast, but it really happened several months before the incident. And that's that he had actually, Alton had changed his name on Facebook to Yaquim Yisrael. So he had adopted a Muslim name, which there's nothing wrong with.

People do that all the time. Sure. in the Muslim religion. But I think it's, and I know you're going to cover it, and I think it has to do with a lot of the Facebook posts, social media post that he starts putting out there, right?

I mean, he's slowly dropping these different posts of more of the Islamic, anti-American. You know, he's, you know, showing pictures of beheadings. He's showing the 9-11 pictures and praising.

He's got the Twin Towers. burning on 9-11. Yeah, and praising the action of that. He's got a picture of himself at a mosque in Oklahoma City. Right. And apparently he's making a hand sign of an ISIS fighter. Right. These are all posts from his Facebook page.

Yeah, I mean, you said Osama bin Laden on one of them. Right. Other ISIS commanders. And on these, when he's posting these pictures, he's also making comments that are saying, like some of my Muslim brothers. Well, these are, you know, these are some of the people that hate America the most. When you're talking about Osama bin Laden

and his and other ISIS commanders and he's saying, you know, these are my Muslim brothers. He's obviously showing a lot of anti-American sentiment at this point. And he even makes, you know, he also discusses the Jewish religion. I guess I used the word discussed for it, I guess, right? So he talks about that on his post. And some of the other strange things that he posts on his Facebook, right?

He actually posts that he is from. He's born in Jerusalem, Israel. I mean, he puts that out there. We know he's not true. Right. And he puts other weird things out there. You know, he graduated from high school in 2011, yet he graduated from college in 2007. Yeah, I saw that too.

I mean, it's bizarre. Yeah, he was just, he was acting very strange. You know, we talked about the fact that it would come out that he, before the incident, had been trying to convert several employees to the Muslim religion. Apparently after the event or the incident, he told law enforcement officials that he had been spending a lot of time watching videos of beheadings online before the incident occurred. He's watched, you know, what type of video show beheadings.

weddings. He's watching ISIL or ISIS type videos. That's what I read. And that was big. You remember that. Because at that time, I think there were two American, I don't know if they were journalists or? Yeah. And actually, you could, you could view them. Right on YouTube. If you could stomach it. Yeah, you could view him on YouTube. And apparently he was and I don't want to say cheering on. He might have been cheering on. Right. from from from everything that I read so that so the FBI's brought in yes to help determine is this a race crime is it just a crime a terrorist is it a terrorist crime yeah you know so because I don't think they were sure at this point um and I'm not sure if it wasn't a combination of all all of it I think

it has elements of racial motivation. I think it has elements of terroristic motivation. Right. I don't think he came back. Religious. As a terrorist, I don't think he did. I think there's a workplace violence. I think because he made the comments, I think it was probably more racial that he was upset with these two women and this HR person that he almost lost his job. I think he took some of the Islamic terrorism methods that he learned and utilized those. Well, yeah, I get what you're saying. I think the reason for what happened was not because he wanted to be a terrorist.

I don't believe that. I think it was revenge. Right. He was upset. But the fact that he had been watching these. videos of, you know, ISIS beheadings and the fact that he beheads Colleen Hufford. Right. You know, it, it just made for a huge national media story. And, you know, they, so they were interviewing people at the mosque that, that he attended. And it was confirmed that he had started,

or he had began worshiping at one of the, uh, mosque. there in, I think, Oklahoma City in May. They said he wasn't very outgoing. People described his behavior as odd and said that he was a little weird, but that his behavior didn't really raise any red flags. I guess Nolan had attended services where sermon, at least this is what the director of the Islamic Society of Greater Oklahoma City said was that Nolan attended services where sermons were delivered against beheadings

like those committed by ISIS militants and that Nolan's actions did not reflect the beliefs of Islam and that was from the Sayyid Muhammad yeah that was Saeed Mahomet so I did find an interview online that that I want to play and this is from a person that stated that they attended contradicts the statement right it does contradict it a little bit but this person states that they attended that same mosque with Alton Nolan I observed the teachings of Islam it took two years to learn what I know about Islam today to the public the mosque will not promote terrorism or any kind of radical acts But when they're among friends and congregants only, they will promote the true teachings of Islam,

which include the offer to non-Muslims, the choice, rather, that you must convert, live under Islamic rule, or be fought against jihad for the sake of Allah. When I was attending the mosque, I was specifically told, for example, concerning suicide bombings in Israel that we do support. these acts because as it was told to me this is the only weapon the Palestinians have but do not mention this to the media because they would not understand. The only time that beheadings were discussed was in the means of which you confront the infidel as it is related to in the Quran that when you meet the unbelievers you should smite at their necks. Contradicts a little bit. Now again, I don't know how accurate this is. I don't know if this person really attended the mosque or not, but this was a credible news outlet that this was on.

I didn't just pull this like a rant from somebody. This was an actual interview. Right. From a credible news show. But the one thing that I took away from it was the fact that he stated in the Quran, it talks about, you know, the infidels and smiting at their necks and I think that's where a lot of that the beheading and the that kind of behavior comes from that interpretation I guess right that's the only thing and I think that's why there was

there was so much argument on many sides you know with the FBI with the prosecution with the attorney general's office with other agencies some thought it was radical Islam. Yeah, radicalization, I think. Radicalization, terrorism style. Others thought it was racially motivated. Some just said, hey, it was just a workplace violence, you know, action. And even if it was, and I think this is where we see a lot of issues when you talk about religion, because you're talking about one individual that did something and you have to be very careful of painting with a broad brush all of the people that practice that religion and sometimes the media doesn't do a great job of that you know i want to make sure that that we don't do that we're not we're not painting

oh no not at all muslims in a bad light whatsoever we're there's simply given the you know telling the story as it unfolded. It radicals in every facet. Yeah, I mean, you know, you can look at every race, religion,

every segment of the population, and you have certain people out of every one of those segments that has the ability to do something bad. I mean, a clear example is, we're in Oklahoma here. So we have the Oklahoma bombing,

which was radical, but it wasn't Islam, it was radical. you know, a Christian radical that, you know, blew up the FBI building. Yeah, Timothy McVeigh. Yeah. Right. Back in, I forget the year now, but.

That's been a long time ago. Yeah. But, you know, there was a radical extremist on the other side of the fence. So, you know, they look at this case. And I think ultimately they come down to what, Mike, that it's not terrorism. And I don't think it was. I don't know what you think, and really what we think doesn't matter a whole. No, I think they got it right.

I don't think it was an act of terrorism. I think it was a series of events, the suspension. Now, I won't say that some of the radicalization may not have played into it. I mean, if this guy's watching the beheading videos and he's starting to look at, Osama bin Laden and other ISIS commanders as, what's the word I want to use as idols. I mean, that has to play some part in it. But I don't, I'm not sure that Alton Nolan would have gone out and done something. I don't know if that was the motivating factor that got him there.

Right. Once he was there, I don't know if that kind of took over at that point then. I don't think that was the motivation. I think when he was there, when he was there, I know that even Tracy makes the mention that when he went to run towards her, he does say something in Arabic. Yeah, you're right about that.

But she doesn't remember what it was. But that's not the motivation behind the crime was the fact that he wanted to go there and take care of the people that turn them in. Revenge. For revenge. I think the motivation was revenge, but when he gets there, he doesn't just stab Colleen Hufford.

No, he uses methods that he's learned from watching online videos. Right. Now, do you call that a terrorist attack? No. It's just the method that he used. Right. But, I mean, it's heinous nonetheless. Absolutely, it is.

I mean, let's talk a little bit about what ultimately happened. you know, Alton Nolan is charged with murder and five other felony counts. You know, this is where things start to get, I shouldn't say start. This is where things get, you know, weird in a different way because now he's in the judicial system. He's already, you know, he's in jail and they're trying to prosecute him. And he wants to plead guilty. But the judge doesn't let him plead guilty. because he's just not, the judge, from what I read, is not sure that Alton Nolan fully understands

the consequences of his guilty plea. And I think she also wanted to be sure, she wanted to make sure she took the cautious route. So when the verdict was rendered, that there was no chance for him to have a retrial. She didn't want to put Colleen's family and Tracy through something like that again. Yeah. So I think she says she was airing on caution to make sure that there's going to be no future retrial. So the strange part about this is it's still going on. I mean, this has not been resolved.

Obviously, he's in custody. As of, I think it was August 2016, the psychologist and the lawyer, were still going back and forth and arguing about his mental state and whether, you know, he was fully competent to stand trial. A couple of things that I read were, you know, that Nolan had refused to cooperate with his attorneys because he, he kind of thought that they were part of some big conspiracy along with the judge to do him in, which I don't know how they could be he was already he's already done in he did himself in he wants to plead guilty but i i read that that he he wasn't a very good defendant in in the fact that he wouldn't he

wasn't willing to work with his defense attorneys the defense you know they have to mount defense obviously in every case that they tried to frame it as though their their client was mentally incompetent. And then on the other side, prosecutors are saying, no, he's he's, he's difficult to deal with, but he's definitely competent. You know, I think the prosecution believed that he was competent from the get-go. And they're going for the death penalty, right? On this one?

You know, I don't know. I kind of thought they were going for the death penalty. I don't know why they wouldn't. If there, this should be a case that would warrant the death penalty. I would think so. Right now. there's really nothing going on until they did until the judge is satisfied that his mental state is such that he fully understands what he's doing by entering this guilty plea you know from what I read the

prosecution basically thinks that as soon as it comes back that he's competent the judge is going to accept a guilty plea and then they're going to move forward with the sentencing. I just think it's crazy that it's taking this long to get to that point. I did too, and I actually read a quote from this guy named Garvin Isaacs. He's a defense attorney. And he's actually the president of the Oklahoma Bar Association. So, you know, obviously he's a well-respected attorney in Oklahoma.

And he said it's very, very unusual for a judge to reject it. a guilty plea in a case. But he goes on to say in this case, he believes that what the judge did was right and that a re-examination of Alton Nolan's mental state is worth it. Worth taking the time, I guess, to extend the time frame to make sure.

Right. So no verdict's overturned. Yes. basically what you said, I just went in a much longer fashion. Said it better. In a different way. And I don't know if you read anything else, Gibby, but as far as I could find out, I mean, there's really no timetable. Now, we're just going to have to follow back up with it and give an update, you know, if anything ever develops from it.

Yeah, because I couldn't even find where his next competent, when his next competent, uh, when his next competent. see evaluation was due. Right. And obviously everything moving forward hinges on that. But yeah, I agree. We can stick, you know, an update on the end of a future episode. Right. We kind of kind of keep an eye on it.

So Gibby, you got anything else? No, I think this was interesting. And a little bit of, what's the word I want to use, a little bit of, with the difference if it's a race, if it's a workplace, if it's, if it's terrorism. You had a little spin on it, you know? Yeah, it's a different type of case for us, right? Right.

It's one, one murder and then, you know, attacking somebody else. But it, and that, and those things are bad. But what I think drew me into the case was all these ancillary things, you know, around it, where you have him getting a, trouble and battering this police woman. I really sound that interesting. Right. Just seems like a bad, bad kid, bad young man.

Oh, he's a bad guy. With rage issues. I think that's a given. But when you've got this police officer that is looking back at 2010 saying, you know, I had, I had a right to shoot this guy because he, we were struggling and he was, you know, Oh, I'm sure she feels, she feels, she shouldn't feel any guilt, but she probably feels like maybe I should have shot them. And, you know, these two people would be, Colleen would be alive.

And Tracy would not be traumatized for the rest of her life. And I don't know if the police woman ever has come out and said that. But it wouldn't surprise me that in moments alone with other people, she would say that. You know, I should have shot this individual. And if I would have, then none of this would happen. Like we talked, like you talked about, the other interesting piece is really the race versus religion versus revenge and examining that and taking a look and seeing which one of, which one is it. I think we have it right. Right.

So I'm curious with the listeners and maybe. Maybe they're let us know either on your Facebook or your Instagram or your Twitter. How do you like these cases? You know, we do the big ones, right? We do some of these more well-known ones, but these ones that are lesser known. But interesting, you know, do they like them? I think I'd like to hear that feedback. And along with that, I'd love some feedback on what they think was the motivation behind this terrible murder.

Yeah, we, you know, you and I talk about it all the time. We love the interaction with the listeners. And we kind of said it from the beginning, right? We talked about trying to do a mix of, we're going to do the big ones. But you can't rush through all the big ones. you can't do Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer back to back to back. Right. And a lot of people have said they, you know,

they enjoy some of these ones that they've never heard of, or maybe they kind of remember them, but they don't know the details. And then some people really like what I always called the big timers. And we're going to do all of them. Don't worry about that. You know, we're going to do Ed Gein and we're going to do John, you know, John Wayne Gacy and because I'm, we're going to do Zodiac.

You know we're going to do Zodiac because that's my all time favorite. That's probably a five-parter. But, yeah, I don't know how many that'll take. In between, you know, we, we, we, we try to find some of these cases that are interesting and less well-known. But I like your idea, Mike. You know, let us know because we're only here to do, to give the, the audience what they want. Right.

Now, we can't please everybody all the time, and we've found that out pretty quickly. Right. There's some people that like some of the things that we do and some don't like some of the other things that we do. But that's all right, you know. At least they tell us. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, let's wrap up this episode. Thank you, everyone, for listening.

You know, as always, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.