True Crime All The Time - Anthony Sowell

Episode Date: December 4, 2017

Anthony Sowell who become known as "The Cleveland Strangler" murdered at least 11 women in the Cleveland area in a period from 2007 to 2009. But Sowell had been victimizing women since his childhood. He would spend 15 years of his life in prison before starting his murderous ways. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the details of this serial killer who preyed on women when they were at their most vulnerable. He is thought to have murdered 11 women but many believe that this number could be much higher. Sowell's rage and hatred towards women can be traced back to childhood and this is explored in depth. Did traumatic experiences from childhood lead this killer down his ultimate path or did they play just a part? What makes a monster like Anthony Sowell do what he does?You can support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Everyone and welcome to episode 55 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, what's going on? Hey man, how you doing? I ain't seen you in a while. I know. It's been actually a full two weeks. It has been a full two weeks.

Not my one week that I thought. It actually was two weeks. Yeah. And it was weird. It really was. It really. Yeah, definitely. If you think about a whole year of putting out.

you know, especially on True Crime All Time, a podcast every single week. Yep. You know, get to the weekend. When I get home from vacation, I didn't have any editing to do. It was very strange. I know it, man. You got time to get caught up on other things. So I did get strep throat, though.

You did get strep throat. Strep throat. Yeah. All right, Gibbs. Let's do Patreon supporters. We had Kelly Eaton, Crystal Weiss. I'm Red Sick. That's a mouthful.

Yeah, I apologize in advance on that one. Lisa Cooper Artilich Priscilla Gilman Christine Hernandez Paula Collins Michelle Zarlinga Molly Katie Quigley

Daniel Morgan Mary Dalton Juliet Mead Jerry Ward Donna McGrath That's a lot I had to take a Yeah

Almost every one of them are on social media Facebook page with us A little more than usual Because we're going We're spending a little more time Yeah And there's still some out

there that I couldn't get in. I'll have to talk about on the next episode. And then we had some PayPal supporters as well. We had Caleb Stewart, Kara Davy, Anthony Quintesenza. Easy for you to say. Exactly. And if we're going back into the vault Gibbs, our Patreon vault, this week we selected Jeanette Craig.

Jeanette's been with us for a long time, much appreciated. And just a huge thanks to. everybody that supports us. Yeah, it's awesome, man. And I, I appreciate it. I was just looking at the list here, the Patreon list. And I just also saw Jackie Gough's name pull up too. But that it was her birthday. Yeah, it's her birthday this week. So happy birthday, Jackie. We appreciate it. All right, Gibbs, let's talk a little bit about true crime all time unsolved. Episode out right now on the murder of Kay Winnle. In a resting case, Kay Wynnell was a former beauty queen. Yeah.

Her husband was a millionaire real estate mogul. And then one day, he comes home to find her murdered in a very horrific, gruesome fashion. Terrible. Terrible. Yeah. I mean, this was a very, very gruesome murder. But then from that point, you know, you get into the who done it, the why, the who, the how. It's a very tough one to piece together.

So definitely check it out. Let's get right into this episode. We're talking about Anthony Sol, also known as the Cleveland Strangler. This is a bad guy. This is a true predator, a true serial killer. From Cleveland, man. What's up in Cleveland, though? Why do we get so many bad dudes coming out of Cleveland?

Ohio, just in general, man. we could do a whole podcast on murderers of Ohio. We've got a lot of bad apples in our state. We do. But Anthony Sol, you know, he murdered at least 11 women. And I'm stressing the at least because this is one of those cases where they're going to go back after the fact and look at trying to figure out what else this guy could have done. So the at least is it's definitely more. But Anthony Edward Sol was born on August 9th, 1959.

He was born in Cleveland, grew up in Cleveland, essentially lived most of his life there. He was raised in East Cleveland by his single mother, Claudia Garrison, and his maternal grandmother, Irene Justice. And this is important in talking about Anthony's childhood, because his father, Thomas Soul, is not going to be part of his life at all. Anthony's sister passed away when he was young. This kind of led to a large number of his cousins coming to live in the house. And much of this story about Anthony's childhood, it's going to be told later on. The story is always told after the fact. And you have all these cousins who grew up alongside him in this household.

There's all kinds of stories that are going to come out. And a lot of stories about abuse. in the house. There was a set of twin female cousins that would come out and say that they were routinely forced to strip naked, they were tied up, they were beaten.

Crazy. And a lot of these times, what they said was that these beatings were performed with electrical extension cords. That hurts. That would hurt. I would have to imagine in an unbelievable way. worse than the racetrack meeting.

But things would get even worse for one of the cousins because she would say that Anthony Sol repeatedly raped her for two years. So from the time that she was 11 until the time that she was 13 years old. And she would come out and say Gibbs that this was happening every single day during this time period. Man, this is terrible. It's hard to even imagine. And I think it's even worse because she even, tried to tell people about it and they just didn't even believe her. She did. I mean, she talks about

the fact that she tried to alert authority. She tried to alert people of what Anthony Sol was doing to her, but nobody believed her and nothing was ever done. And that's going to be kind of a common theme to this story about Anthony's soul because there's a lot of people after the fact that are going to look at this case and say, man, look at all. these red flags. Look at all these things that should have led authorities to the door and did lead authorities to the door of Anthony Sol, but yet nothing was ever done. Yeah. And the police in Cleveland, there's going to be a lot of people pointing the finger at them when everything is said and done saying, you know, you guys should have stopped this very early on. But we talked about

Anthony Sol's father not being around. So he's raised. by his mother and his grandmother, and we talked about some of the abuse. But even though there was a lot of abuse in this household, his family would later say that Anthony was not beaten. They would state that he watched his cousins being abused on a regular basis. And you know that can't be good for the psyche of a young child. I mean, what are you putting into a young child's head when they're seeing their cousins being stripped naked, beaten with electrical cords. What kind of damage, Gibbs, does that do? And that just can't be good. You know, I mean, he gets to see his mom or grandma strip these girls down and beat them day in and day out. And, you know, he does some bad things, too.

And, but if you grow up in that environment, I would think eventually, if you see it enough, maybe you just think that's just the norm. Right. You think that's normal. You think that's okay. And what is going to be so telling, I think, in regards to that, is that he's going to use electrical cords specifically later in life. He saw that it worked for them. So, you know, a typical electrical cord, especially back then was they were pretty thin. So they would actually work really well as a rope or something to tie somebody up with as well as if you wanted to strangle somebody, they would work really well. Yeah, we're not talking about the big, like, orange ones, right? The outdoor. We're talking about the, in the old days you had, like, we're very thin.

Yeah, very, very thin, electrical cords. And if you beat somebody with them, man, it would sting. You're talking like you got a lot of experience in this area of electrical cord. I'm just saying. You're speculating, right, though. I am speculating. Let's just clear that out. Yeah.

No, I agree with you. It would have to have been very painful. But this fact of whether Anthony was actually abused or not during his childhood, it's going to be debated later on, especially at trial. But people talked about him as a kid being very kind, you know, easy to deal with, respectful of adults. He was just a shy, skinny kid. But people thought he was quiet but friendly. But it's interesting to read about what neighbors said about the house. This was actually a very nice house.

If you look at pictures of it for the time period and the area that it was in, very nice. You know, the neighborhood Gibbs was described as middle class. But the family didn't have, I don't believe, as much money as some other families in the area. Because there was a lot of information about, you know, by the time he gets to high school, most of his peers and stuff were driving cars, right? Their families had bought him a car or they'd gotten a hand-me-down or something. Anthony didn't have a car. His family couldn't afford something like that to just give to him.

Because you have to think about he's got seven, at least seven cousins living there as well besides him. They all want to get out of there. You know, they all probably want to ride to go somewhere but be there. They definitely do want to get out. Now, people that went to school with Anthony would talk about the fact that, you know, he never had a girlfriend. And he was teased a lot in high school. especially about his lack of sexual activity. You know, he was teased repeatedly for not having a girlfriend for being inexperienced.

Did that happen to you? No. They just knew and they left you alone. They were like, that's not even worth, it's not even worth teasing him about. He's already so low. But Anthony would get very angry and he would want to fight people. He would want to talk back and say that. He did have all this experience with women or girls or whatever, but it wasn't true.

He was just trying to fit in, trying to get these people to leave him alone. Right. In January of 1978, he joins the Marines. He's 18 years old. And he goes off to boot camp in Paris Island, South Carolina. And you have to imagine he probably joined the Marines for a whole host of reasons. To get the K bar. Well, number one, you're going to get a K bar.

Go get a K bar. But, you know, he didn't have enough credits to graduate high school. So that was an issue for him. And then he would have a daughter eight and a half months after joining the Marines. So a fellow high school classmate gets pregnant. And it happened right before he left for boot camp. And then again, he may have seen the Marines as a place to toughen up because he had endured so much teasing. And it definitely toughen you up.

There's not a whole lot that's known about his time in the military. You know, he did receive training as an electrician. But one thing that is known, and I think is important to talk about, he would have received training in close quarters combat. You know in the Marines, you're going to get that. Absolutely. You're going to get all kinds of training. But one of them is going to be close quarters combat.

Yep. And in that training, Anthony Sol would learn how to subdue. He would learn how to kill using. chokes, other basic types of weapons of opportunity. He's going to learn that in the Marines. Plus, he learns how to be electrician. What is electricians use? Electrical cords. Ah? Maybe. Well, I mean, I know that, yeah. I get what you're saying. See, I put that together there. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Sherlock. Yeah. But he's going to use this training to devastating effect throughout his murder spree.

So he spent some time overseas. He had a stint in Japan. And after a return, he was a, and after a returning from Japan, he married a fellow Marine named Kim Lawson. So we're talking about September of 81. So yeah, so the daughter would later say that her mom only married Anthony because Anthony was drinking so much and she didn't want Anthony to have a dishonorable discharge. And she kind of took him more like trying to save him, right? And so she married him. So didn't really marry him for love, more of a petty pity marriage. And I think that bears itself out because Kim Lawson would divorce Anthony Sol the very day that she left the Marines in 1985 because he's still drinking. He's not supporting their child. And he actually leaves the military, gets discharged in 1985 as well. So he ended up spending

about seven years in the Marines. That's a pretty good stent. It is. Although what was strange, was the Marines said that he actually went AWOL for a couple of months at one point during those seven years, but he still left on good terms, was given an honorable discharge. He received some sharpshooting awards, good conduct medals, certificates of commendation, stuff like that. But when he got out of the Marines in 1985, he was completely different. He was a different person. Just an angry guy. Yeah, he was angry. He was drinking. He was drinking. and all the time still. And over the next few years,

he would build up quite a rap sheet, kind of foreshadowing some of the stuff that's going to come later. So he's living in East Cleveland, and the population back then of East Cleveland was about 90% African American. And it was said that 25% of that 90% live below the poverty level. So a little bit different than what the neighborhood

he would have grown up in at that. time. Yeah, because the neighborhood that he grew up in was predominantly white, middle class, is the way it was explained. But the interesting point to make about this neighborhood that he comes back to is there was a lot of people that talked about the fact that the police didn't seem to care what was going on in this neighborhood. And a lot of people made the assumption that the reason why they didn't care is because it was 90% African American. And this is something that's going to come up during this whole story. How much do the police care about this section of Cleveland?

And one thing we have to talk about Gibbs is crack because it becomes a huge issue plaguing Cleveland and especially East Cleveland during this time frame. Crack is whack, man. Yeah. Don't do crack. And it wasn't just Cleveland. I mean, this was taking over in a lot of areas of the, especially the urban areas of United States, starting about 1985, about the time that he gets out of the Marines,

I think. All the big metro areas for sure had it. They had a crack. Yeah, a lot of places had a crack problem. The crime rate skyrocketed, in large part, due to this addiction to crack. I mean, it's kind of similar to what we see today coming up, you know, with the heroin abuse again. You know, we're seeing people needing that black tar, man, they need their fix. So they're robbing, stealing, whatever to get a few bucks to get the next high. I think the difference to me, and I don't want to get off on a drug tangent, but the difference like with the heroin and meth, it seems like today, it's not, it's not a big city problem, right?

No, you're right. I mean, we have problems out in the rural areas around us, big meth problems, big, big drug problems. But this crack, you know, this was, again, never smoked crack. I'll put that out there. But what I've always heard Gibbs is you don't even want to take one hit off that because it's like it's a quick addiction. That's what I've always heard. Suck you in.

But you have this skyrocketing crime rate and a lot of these people that became addicted to crack in Cleveland were women. You know, it was talked about how many women became addicted and that they would do anything and everything they needed to do to get the next hit of crack. And this is where you get into, this kind of goes back to like Robert Pickedon, right? We talked about this a lot in the Robert Pickedon episode. Sure did. I don't think it was crack, but it was drugs. Women selling, bartering their bodies, doing whatever they have to do to get a next hit of crack. And this is the scene.

This sets the scene for the area that Anthony Soul is going to operate in. So into this situation, you, insert a 25-year-old Anthony Sol. He's now single, drinking heavily. He's just spent seven years in the military. Soul would later tell psychologists that examined him, he was having, at a minimum, six drinks a day at this point in his life. Okay.

Now, there's a lot of people out there that may have five or six drinks a day. But this is a minimum. I think there were a lot of days where he was having a hell of a lot more. Yeah, it depends if he spreads them out or if he's having them all, boom. boom, boom, boom, too. Well, that's true. You drink all day, right? One before work, a couple during work. So it's kind of buzzed all day. But he did. I mean, you know, there's a lot of information that comes directly from Anthony Sol. He said that he would often start drinking right after he woke up. He would drink all day long until he passed out. In 1988, he was arrested on domestic violence charges.

He served eight days in jail for that. He was also charged that year, with possession of dangerous drugs. And then between 86, 89, he had a bunch of other arrests. This is what we talk about when, or this is what I meant when I said, you know, he's going to build up this rap sheet. Disorderly conduct, DUI, public drunkenness, stuff like that. And it's during this time that the bodies of two women were found near where Anthony was living on Page Avenue in Cleveland.

These two women were suspected crack users. So in May of 88, the body of 36-year-old Rosalind Garner was found in her home on Hayden Avenue. She'd been strangled. Carmela Prater was a 27-year-old woman. She also lived on Page Avenue. She was found in an abandoned home also off of Hayden Avenue. And this was February of 89. A month later in March, the body was.

of Mary Thomas, also 27 years old, was found near an abandoned building on First Avenue. She was strangled to death with a red ribbon. And this red ribbon was found around her neck when her body was discovered. Now, what's strange about these cases is that they've never been solved. Anthony Soul has been a suspect in these cases since they all happened very near where he was living at the time. But nobody has been able to establish a definitive link to him. So that's why I say, Gibbs, in the very beginning, right? At least 11 women, but I believe the number is way, way higher. But Anthony's soul would end up being linked to the attempted rape of a 21-year-old woman. And she was three months pregnant at the time this happened. This was in 1989. So on July 22nd of that year,

he meets this woman at a motel in Cleveland. Now, it was said that she did have a very long criminal record for drug abuse. The police reports say that Anthony Sol approached this woman, told her that her boyfriend was waiting for her at his house. And his house was like 500 yards away from this hotel, not very far, walking distance. So she decides to go. He probably offered her drugs to, I don't know. But when she gets there, of course, the boyfriend's not.

there, right? This was all just a lie designed to get her into his house. He throws this woman on the bed, chokes, rapes her repeatedly. Then he tied her hands together with a necktie. He bound her feet with a belt and he stuffed a rag into her mouth. Now, Anthony's soul had been drinking all day. And he actually passes out, falls asleep, passes out, whatever you want to call it. And it's during this period of time that the woman is able to get free and she actually jumps out of a window to get away from this man. I would have too. She did whatever she had to do. But she did get away and she went straight to police, told them her story of what happened and ultimately a grand jury indicts Anthony Sol on the charges. But he doesn't show up for court. He's got a court date. He never shows. So on

December 8th, they issue an arrest warrant for Anthony Sol, but they can't find him. And about seven months goes by before they catch up with him. And it's about four miles away from where the original incident happened with the first victim, that there's another victim. And another woman is raped and she comes forward alleging that it was Anthony Sol. This is a 30 year old woman. she tells police that on June 24th, 1990, she went to his house in East Cleveland. They sat on the couch. They were drinking. And she was very explicit in the details that she gave to police for their reports.

So a lot of these details come from the police reports. She says that Anthony got up. He ended up behind her behind the couch where she was sitting. And he started choking her. And while he was choking her, apparently he was rattling off all kinds of obscene descriptions of all these sexual acts that he was going to, things that he was going to do to her. And he was calling her names. He was saying that, you know, she better comply.

And she says that he dragged her up the stairs and, you know, violated her in every way imaginable. And just like the prior victim, she was also pregnant. I mean, she was five months pregnant. Didn't stop him. No, because she told him while he was assaulting her, she told him, I'm five months pregnant and begged him to stop. And he would not. And again, like I said, she was very detailed in her telling of this to the police.

She said that Anthony Sol forced her as she was being assaulted. to say that she liked it. This is a sick, demented son of a bitch. Yeah, it's messed up, man. This guy... He's getting confirmation from her. Yeah.

If I can get her to say, yeah, she's really liking it, then I'm not really doing this bad thing. I mean, what else could... Yeah, what else? Shit, I don't know, Gibbs. I can't make sense of some of this stuff, but, I mean, all you can do is speculate on something like that.

Why would... I mean, why would anybody do that in the first place? but then to do some of these other things on top of it while it's happening, I just, I just don't understand it. But what she would relate to police is that one of the things that she got the sense of was that, number one, there's no way that he hadn't done this before and that it was like it was no big deal to him. And I think going back to what you were saying, I don't, I don't know if he didn't feel

like he was doing anything wrong, but she really got to sense that, you know, he didn't think he was. Now eventually he fell asleep or passed out like he did in the first incident and she was able to leave the home. She goes and gets the police. It's about 8 a.m. in the morning when they get back and he's still asleep. They arrest Anthony Sol. But charges were never filed in this assault case, in this rape case. And police would later say that when it came time, they could not find this woman.

moment again to testify against soul. That makes it tough, man, if you can't produce the victim. Yeah, I mean, obviously her testimony would have been a slam dunk, you would think. Yeah. It's just in this type of case. Now, I shouldn't even say that because there's a lot of cases where even that type of testimony, which you think would be a slam dunk, ends up not working. Oh, yeah.

We see people get off all the time. Yeah. Where you look at it and you're like, I can't. believe that person got off. But even though they couldn't put him away for this incident, they have him in custody. And, you know, he's been wanted. So he's charged for that previous rape. He would eventually plead guilty to a lesser charge of attempted rape. And on September 12, 1990, he was sentenced to five to 15 years in prison. And he ends up going to the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections prison in Lorraine. And he ends up going to the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation.

Ohio. So I know why he was in prison, he went to a couple programs of better himself. He tried. He tried. He went to Alcoholics Anonymous. He tried to sign up for some type of sex offender treatment while he was in prison. But he was denied. And the reason that he got denied or turned down was that he would not admit to prison officials that he was a sex offender. Well, how the hell are you going to go through sex offender treatment? If you would won't admit to the basic problem that you're trying to be treated for. Yeah, it's like the first step of any program. How are you going to go to AA if you won't stand up and say, I'm an alcoholic? Right. So they raise your hand first. Yeah, they wouldn't let him in the program because he couldn't even

admit that. Now, he ends up serving the entire 15 year maximum sentence, which is rare. I'm glad to see that. Yeah, he got five to 15 years and he ended up doing the max. And it's kind of strange because, everything you read about Anthony Sol during this time was that he was a model prisoner. He was in four different prisons in Ohio. He had no major infractions. He had a few minor violations, but nothing major. He was able to get his GED. He even used his marine training to work as an electrician while he was in prison.

But the one thing that Anthony had a hard time with in prison and that anybody like him would was that he had that stigma of being a convicted rapist. And that's not a good thing in prison. No. That puts you at the bottom of the totem pole. You are. You're down there. Down there with people that hurt children.

There's a lot of convicts that they do not look kindly upon that at all, even though they're in there for something horrible. And there was one convict in particular, man named Carlton Pope. He had been in Ohio prisons for 30 years. he meets Anthony Sol while they're both serving time. And he actually had a quote in a paper, in a Cleveland paper saying, I shunned him because not only did he seem demented and a psychotic pervert, he carried the stigma of a convicted rapist.

So you have to think, Gibbs, the guy was by what everybody wrote and said and documented, pretty much a model prisoner, but his crimes were. so violent, the one that he was convicted of, they probably knew about the one that he wasn't, that parole officers repeatedly denied requests for him to be released, and he served the entire 15 years. Like we said, I think that's really good. I'm glad he got that because he got off on the other one, but because he had to serve the full 15, it kind of makes up for it. Yeah, I know that's one thing that always bothers you is when people get out way too early. And we see that a lot, right? People get out, they do something heinous. They get out early. They go back to reaffin. Well, he's

going to reoffend, though, even though he did the entire 15 years. But he was in prison in 2002 when he found out that his father had died. So he gets out of prison and he ends up renting a room from his father's widow. And this is at 1-2205 Imperial Avenue back in Cleveland, Ohio. And it's going to be an important address because this is where all of his future crimes are going to go down. Or I should say a lot of them. But what I found very interesting is that Anthony Sol underwent a psychological evaluation just prior to leaving prison. And this evaluation indicated that Anthony Sol was rehabilitated and unlikely to commit those

type of violent sexual offenses again. Now, he did have to register as a sex offender, but back at that point in time, he was only required to check in with the county sheriff's office once a year. Now, this would change in 2008 because a federal law comes in that requires that he check in every 90 days. So he's out. He's an ex-convict. He's a registered sex offender, but none of those things, Gibbs, they didn't seem to hamper his dating life. Well, I'm guessing because the women didn't know. I can't imagine a woman being, hey, used to rape and used to, oh, that's no big deal. Come on, let's go out. I don't know about that part, but I definitely know that some of these women knew that he had been in prison for quite a long time.

I don't know. If I was a woman and a guy wanted to take me out, And we were talking about his past and he said he was in prison. I just, I wouldn't hold that against him, but I would want to know what were you put in prison for? And then, and I would probably hold that, that would be a red flag. Oh, so just the fact that you went to prison, you're not going to hold that. People do some bad, some, not bad. I'm talking about dumb things. So you're going to go out on the date.

Depends on what they did. If they did something dumb, didn't hurt anybody intentionally or whatever. I always like to get your perspective as a woman. I'm just saying if I was sitting... I think the listeners really enjoy it. Yeah, they really love that. I'm just saying if I was sitting across from somebody, having a coffee, and they're like, hey, I like to take you out.

I just want you to know I was in prison. I just wouldn't say, okay, that's cool. I'd say, what were you in prison for? You'd be flattered. You'd just be flattered that somebody wants to take you out. Well, that's true. I don't get many of those at all. But he starts dating right after getting out of prison.

You know, dated a woman named me. Tanya Doss. They met in 2005 right after he got out. She was living right across the street from him where he was living on Imperial Avenue. And Tanya Doss would later say that Anthony Sol was not using crack cocaine when he got out. I actually think he got sober while he was in prison. But he did start drinking again right after he got out. And apparently the guy could put on a mean, there was people that would come, you know, to a. a backyard barbecue all the time. He was just the barbecue king.

Yeah, he was. I think he had honed some of his cooking skills in prison. He knew how to put that spit out there and do that, everything, man. Just make it tasty. I don't know how he was doing it, but it talked a lot about the fact that he was known throughout the neighborhood. He was like the barbecue guy. If you want good barbecue, go see him.

Go see Anthony Sol. But even Tanya Doss would later say that she was attacked. by Anthony Solt. I mean, this guy could not be around a woman for much length of time before he would attack and commit, you know, violent sexual acts. I go back to his childhood. I just, how much of this came from what he experienced as a child, what he saw with his own two eyes. I'm not making excuses for this guy because he's a piece of shit. I'm just trying to figure out how much of that or what that had to do with it. But Tanya Doss was somebody that was able to get away from Anthony Sol.

Another woman that started a relationship with him was a woman by the name of Lori Frazier. And Lori Frazier happened to be the niece of Frank Jackson, who was the mayor of Cleveland. So this weird kind of tie in. Yeah, it really is. Now, she was, she was an admitted crack user. back then, back during this time period. But she would come out on record saying that she did have a relationship with Anthony Sol. And it lasted a few years. And not just that. She actually lived with him at the Imperial Street House for quite some time. So in 2006, he'd probably been out about a year.

He gets a job at a rubber factory. So that's kind of weird. He's at the Trojan Company. It's not that kind of rubber, Gibbs. This is like regular rubber. where they make products out of. Like the real rubber, rubber, rubber. Not a rubber. Not a rubber. Just rubber. That's a weird word, rubber. Yeah.

Just the whole word itself is kind of strange. Got to dive into the history of the word. Break it down? Break it down. He's only there about a year, though. He ends up getting fired for not showing up, and then he starts to collect unemployment. This job at the rubber factory, it was a job that he obtained through a nonprofit that helped ex-convicts find work.

Then after he's fired, he's getting unemployment. It was said that he was earning some money selling scrap metal, which apparently a lot of people around the town were doing. But it's around this time, this 2007-ish time period that neighbors around Imperial Avenue area started to complain that there was a foul smell in the neighborhood. They complained to the health department, but nobody could figure out where the smell was coming from. There was a sausage place right next to, I guess, his house.

It was called like Ray's sausage or something sausage. I forget. Ray's sausage. Something like that. And a lot of people thought it came from there. Yeah. But they investigated it. They didn't think it was, but they couldn't figure out where it was coming from.

People were also complaining to the office of a councilman in Cleveland. When a resident from my ward called in and said point blank, the councilman there's an odor across the street, and it smells like a dead person. Not a dead animal, not dead meat, a dead person. So evidently my office didn't do enough to see what could be done and should have been done way back in 2007. And then when you think about the aspect of the sheriffs and police and that stench just continued to this very day. And then I talked to a police officer the other day and he said that the health department would have called it in to us and said what you said, councilman, we would have moved it up to a priority one. And we would have went with the health department to this location way back in 2007.

It reminded me more of a sermon than a... A little bit. Kind of sounded like that. Yeah. I do find it interesting because, as I mentioned early on, there's going to be a lot of people taking a lot of heat for this whole thing after. And obviously, this is after the fact when the councilman is talking about it. There will be a lot of deflection going on.

There is. And he didn't do a lot of it. He actually came out and said, you know, my office didn't do enough. But there's going to be a lot of finger pointing and a lot of people having to talk about this after the fact. So people knew about the smell, but it's also around, you know, a little bit right before this that women started to go missing around Imperial Avenue. So we fast forward a little bit, 2009, September of 2009, Anthony Sol invites a woman that he was

familiar with, he knew this woman, to his home for a drink. And it would be on September 22nd that she would file a woman. a report with police. And what she said was that after having a few drinks, Anthony Sol became angry, hit her, choked her, and raped her. But while he was doing this, he was tightening an extension cord around her neck. So this is where I came back to the extension cord. And he did this until she passed out.

I mean, he's just, one, it sounds like he can't handle his alcohol. he's some people when they drink they just get mean nasty angry and he is definitely one of those types yeah i don't think there's any doubt about that there's a lot of a lot of the research talked about how he was an angry drunk yeah but again i mean adding on to what you're saying so on top of that it just seems to me that he can't hardly be around women at all without committing some type of violent act against them. So it's on October 29th, police arrive at his home.

They have a warrant to arrest him for this rape that the woman alleged against him. Anthony Sol is not home when they get there. But police find two bodies that day. And just a few days later, they do finally locate him and arrest him.

Police arrived at Anthony Soul's home last Thursday to charge him with rape. They didn't find him there. but what they discovered was horrific. There was a stench so awful, they searched his home and found two bodies in the living room. You know, we've never seen anything like it. So it's very challenging from an investigative standpoint,

from an emotional standpoint for all the investigators. They arrested Seoul later a few blocks away. They told him to get down. He got down. He didn't give him any trouble. He didn't try to run. He was taken to the district, fingerprinted and identified, and stated that he was a suspect. I don't understand how people can even live in that environment.

Well, and it's going to come out about this stench and we write this smell. Moore is going to come out about it. We're going to talk about it a little bit more, but I just can't even imagine if people can smell it around the neighborhood. How are you living in that house? Yeah, exactly. How can you be right up on it, you know? And to just have two bodies, just literally laying on the floor in your living room?

Yeah, just walk them right by it. I don't know. So police come back. They're searching inside and out of this house. They start finding more remains. They find, you know, some bodies inside the house. They find some buried in the yard outside in shallow graves. And then they find a human skull in a bucket in the basement. Most of the victims were killed by manual strangulation. Some were gagged. Some were gagged. Some had. had ligature marks on their bodies when they were discovered. And all of the victims, it's going to be 11 in total that they're going to find at this house. All the victims were African American women.

Almost all of these women, it's known that they struggled with drug addiction at some point in their life. And unfortunately, as we talked about early on, these drug addictions caused some of these women to resort to stealing, selling their bodies for money. or for crack to feed this habit. And Anthony Sol was a known drug user throughout the neighborhood. So the theory is, is that he lured many of these victims back to his property with the promise or an invitation to smoke crack cocaine.

Well, like you said, it's such a powerful drug that people would do anything for it. So they had no problem going back to his house, not for that next hit. It's incredibly sad when you dig into the past of some of these. victims because, you know, these are mothers. Some of these were grandmothers, but they're, you know, daughters, sisters, all of those things. And when, when you start to, to dig into it, you know, some of these women were great moms, had good jobs at some point in their life. And getting into this crack cocaine, it made them a different person. You know, the first woman to be identified, she's not the first woman to be killed, but the first woman to be killed, but the

first woman to be identified was a woman named Tanya Carmichael. She was 53 years old and she had disappeared more than a year before the bodies were found. And her body was found buried in the backyard. She was strangled and she was identified through the use of DNA that they obtained from her mother. Her mother had reported her missing back in December of 2008 and the autopsy would reveal that she most likely died in that same month that she was reported missing. At least I know where she is now and I can put her to rest and she's with God. I wish for him to have a not so easy way to hell in gasoline draws. That's how I feel because even that's lenient.

Did she say way to hell in gasoline drawers? She did. I don't think I've ever heard that before. But that is a member of Tanya Carmichael's family, obviously with no thoughts whatsoever of Anthony Sol. She doesn't care what in the hell happens to this guy, as long as it's something bad. Talasia Forston was a 31-year-old. She had disappeared five months prior to the bodies being found. But even though she'd been missing since June, no one in her family reported her missing.

until, I think it was until her mother heard the news on TV about a bunch of bodies being found that she reported that her daughter was missing. And it's this fact that police are going to kind of use to deflect some of the blame off of them that only a handful of these missing women were ever reported missing. Yeah, they're just going to blame, you know, that no one cared enough to report them missing. so we can't do anything if you don't report them is what they're saying. Well, and it's true. I mean, if they don't know about it, how can they?

Oh, sure. So, no, I get that. I mean, police can only go off of what they knew. But believe me, we're going to talk about police plenty. Tashana Culver was 31 years old. She lived just a few houses down the street from Anthony Sol. She was never reported missing. I did a live interview with a woman looking for her 31-year-old daughter,

to Shauna Culver, who lives just seven doors down from Anthony Soll here on Imperial Avenue. We're sorry to report this morning that Culver was the third Imperial Avenue murder victim identified late last night. Now, Culver was a young mother of four, last seen by her family almost a year ago, but her family says they didn't file a missing person's report because they thought she was living with her boyfriend in Akron. Now, police believe that Seoul murdered 11 black women before burying them in the house in the backyard. Like the Culver's, many fear. women believed or reported missing from the area may be among the dead. Okay, so if I'm a mom of four, are you telling me that the family didn't want to verify

she was in Akron, you know? It seems very odd to me. I just find it. Now, we did deal with this gives quite a bit in the Picton case, right? There were a lot of women, their families had no idea where they were. They couldn't track them because of the drug problems. Yeah. They were leading very transient lives.

But if mom, if grandma's got the four kids and mom's off living with a boyfriend Akron, I mean, you don't say, hey, you missed all the kids' birthday. We wanted to check in on you and see, I don't know. I just, that mindset's hard for me to get into it. It is because, I mean, none of us have ever been in that situation so strung out that we can't take care of any of our responsibilities. We don't see any of our family. I mean, you have a victim.

named Crystal Dozier, 38 years old. She was the mother of seven, lived around that area. Now, Crystal was a little different in that her family reported her missing very early on. And the family would actually come out publicly accusing the police of failing to investigate her case specifically because she was a known drug user. And again, this was a lot of the frustration that was levied against the police was that, you know, it was because of who these people were, where they came from, what they were doing, the color of their skin, that police were not investigating their disappearances. The family of Crystal Dozier, you know, they took it upon themselves. They were posting flyers. They were calling hospitals. This can't be said for all the victims,

but for Crystal Dozier, her family was doing everything they could do to try to find her. It's believed that she died in May of 2007. She was most likely the first victim of Anthony Sol, the first murder victim, because he had a lot of victims, the first known murder victim, I say. Amelda Hunter was 47 years old. She was a beautician. She was the mother of three children. Now, she's a little different than some because she didn't actually live in the area, but she was known to visit it quite often. And she was not reported missing Gibbs until her family saw the news of remains being removed from Anthony Sol's house on TV.

That's kind of rough, man, that that's what triggered that, they said, man, wonder if that's her. We should try to find her. Yeah. That doesn't mean they weren't trying to find her. It just means they hadn't officially reported her. missing to police. Michelle Mason was 45 years old. She was last seen in October of 2008. And she was. And she was. She lived in the area. She did. A lot of them did. Yeah. And that's one thing that I found very strange. It wasn't like Anthony Sol was going to different areas of Cleveland. And I know

with her, the police did conduct a investigation and her being missing. they did because she was one of the few that was actually reported missing to police. And I know they had other victims. They had what Lechonda Long. She was 25. Nancy Cops, 43, Janice Webb, 49, Kim Smith, 44. And Diane Turner, 38. That's a lot of people. You know, it is. And that's why I said in the beginning, this guy was a was a true predator, a true serial killer, 11 people. And I think, it's probably just the tip of the iceberg. I truly believe Gibbs that the number is higher. And they're still investigating this guy. And police are especially looking at the missing person's records going back to June of 2005 when he got out of prison. Because obviously, for that 15 years,

he couldn't have, he didn't do anything. If you look at this and you think about these 11 victims and knowing that they all came from the same neighborhood, why wasn't it on the police radar? If this happened in where we're sitting right here today in your town, 11 people would be neighboring community news. The only thing that people were talking about for hundreds of miles. I think this is the big question. After this whole thing comes out,

how is it that you said, like 11 women, most of them, almost all of them essentially, from the same neighborhood. I mean, we're not even talking Cleveland. We're talking a neighborhood of Cleveland could go missing. And what's not a, it's not a huge span of time, right? Two, three, four years. He'd only been out of prison since 2005.

Was it because they were all African American women? And drug users. So I think the predominant issue is that the fact that they were, they were all drug users. But then the fact that they were all African American does play a fact into a lot of people's minds. No, you can't take out the race in this situation because it's those two issues and they're linked, right? Race and drug use. That in all of the research, all of the newspaper articles, all of the videos that you watch, that's what people are saying.

Police in Cleveland did not investigate this because of who these people were. And then you have to talk about the smell again. and why did it go basically uninvestigated? Because authorities had visited the home of Anthony Soul many times over the years. I mean, he was a tier three sex offender, and that's the most dangerous classification you can get in Ohio. And during every one of these visits, it was never noted that anyone smelled anything strange, even though during this time frame Gibbs, everybody in this day,

damn neighborhood is saying it smells like dead people. You know, I'm surprised somebody just didn't like a mom. You know, my mom, if I would have said something smells, my mom would have came over and she would have found. She always, you know, this is what it is. You know what I mean? Like investigating smells? Yeah.

She's like, good at that. You know what I mean. That doesn't sound right. But yeah. I get what you're saying. She would have got to the bottom. Absolutely. She's a, you know, a mom detective.

Yeah. And they can find shit that nobody else can find. Now, to be fair, authority. were not allowed inside the house on these visits with Anthony Sol. But if people all around the neighborhood can smell it, how can they not smell it standing on his front porch or wherever they were? Yeah, I think it would give you reasonable calls to enter, you know, or at least Copac can get something to get inside.

So Mr. Sol was registered and compliant, very compliant. He maintained one residence from the time he got out of prison in 2005, you know, up until right now. So not only was he stable as far as residents, he reported in a timely fashion. Never had an issue with Mr. Sowell being non-compliant. We are not obligated or actually allowed under law to enter the offender's residence, of course. Certainly we would need some probable cause to search or to actually enter the residence. And back to what you said, Gibbs. How is the smell of decaying, bodies, how would that not be probable cause? They might say, just because it smells doesn't mean you get to go in his house.

But if it smells like dead body? How do you know what its dead body smells like? That's what they'd say. I think most people, if they smelled a dead body, they would know. You never spelled a dead body? Would you know? You don't know what I've done. All I'm saying is you can see a defense attorney tearing it up and saying.

No, you can't. Yeah, I get what you're saying. But of all the people that you hear all the time talking about, They know when they smell dead body. It is very distinctive. You're right. I mean, but it's interesting to talk about because this is where all the heat comes down. Yeah.

On them. And they're making justification. I mean, you can hear it in her voice, you know. I mean, she's, he was a, he was a model parole. And she said he only had one residence the whole time. Well, hell yeah, you only had one residence. He can't move. What's going to do with all these bodies?

Exactly. He's going to. Can't put it up for sell. He's going to have to dig. up the ground, you know, his yard. He's got a bunch of them in the house. He's going to have to figure out what to do with those. He's stuck in that house.

But you're right. They have to. She has no choice. They've got to deflect. And they all do it. Police, everybody involved. Now, on December 8th, 2008, authorities visited the home of Anthony Sol after a woman claimed he attacked her.

And it's in the police report from that visit. It actually states that officers saw drops of blood on the walls and the steps. Do you want to talk about probable cause, Gibbs? Isn't that something? That should have been enough. The smell of what smells like dead bodies, you're seeing drops of blood all over the place.

And it's in the, they actually wrote it up in the police report. I would have think somebody should have said, hey, maybe we should just kind of look into this little bit further now that we have blood. And that's why when you flesh, out all the information. Do you say flesh out?

Yeah. You mean flush out? Yeah, either one. Okay. I'm just checking it out, you know. Yeah, I think. Didn't know if that was like a little, you know. Givie?

Yeah. We call that a givey. No, but when you do, when you look at it all the information, this is not just people wanting to, you know, bag on the police for not doing their job. There's a lot of, there's a lot of smoke here. But in that same police report, they also say, that they didn't see any signs on this woman that she had been attacked. And the case gets dropped. They didn't, they didn't press any charges against Anthony Seoul back then in 2008. But it's known that

after this incident, six more women would disappear and be killed. And that's where a lot of the outrage comes from. It's not just that the police didn't do what people thought they were supposed to do. it's that people think that a large number of women died as a result of when it, you know, after it could have been prevented. Yeah, sure. It's what they think. These women didn't need to die if things were handled correctly. So I get that. But, you know, as I said, police would defend their handling of the case.

They would point out that only four of the 11 families of the victims ever reported them missing. But in that statement alone, they say, Four of the victims were reported. So what did they do about those? They're discounting seven, but what about the four? And the seven, like you mentioned it earlier, it is hard to investigate something you don't know about. Yeah, I get that. So those seven missing women, if they're not on police radar, I get that.

But if you investigate the four, you're probably saving some of the seven. Yeah, I agree. Or if you're just looking into this one allegation against him in which you notice blood, right there, people think you could have saved sick. lives. So when it's all said and done, Anthony Sol is charged with 11 counts of aggravated murder and over 70 counts of rape, kidnapping, tampering with evidence, abuse of a corpse. He initially pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. But later on, he changes his plea to just plain old not guilty. The judge in the case denies bond for Seoul. This is the man police suspect is behind these horrific crimes.

But when he appeared in court this morning, he didn't look like a monster. But the charge with a number of felony crimes within his jurisdiction. But a stunned judge denied Bond. This is without question the most serious set of allegations that I've ever faced. I think that tells a lot when the judge said this is without question the most serious set of allegations I've ever encountered. Yeah, I think it says a lot. And then you get into the trial of Anthony Sol and it was very strange. It was a strange trial.

The prosecution provided, you know, very solid evidence of his guilt. I want to play a clip Gibbs of a point in the trial where the prosecution is grilling a doctor that had some type of interaction with Soul. You say as of 2008 he was having physical problems. He continued to, yes. And you have looked at the crime scene photographs, have you not? Yes, I have. And can you explain if he was having physical problems how these mounds of dirt got carried three flights of stairs upstairs

to that third floor bedroom or downstairs? How did that happen if he was having a physical problem or how did it happen that he was able to carry the bodies out to the backyard and bury it? What kind of physical problems was he having at that point in time? I really can't speak to that, sir. I don't know. Well, doesn't it contradict this allegation that he has physical limitations? You've testified that he could not go back to work because of physical limitations because he can't breathe or he's shortness of breath or whatever it was.

He's giving it to him. Yeah, it sounds like, you know, here's a guy that, filed workers' comp and this is the doctor that was the doctor that allowed, you know, signed off in the workers' comp and maybe he just didn't know what he was really doing. But he's got a medical statement out there where he signed off for the state to allow this workers' comp and now he's got to be held accountable for that too. Yeah, again, I think you're right. I don't know that to be 100% true, but I think just from the context of that, that does make a lot of sense. And then, you know, you had the defense.

And really a lot of their focus, I think, was trying to soften Anthony Sol, trying to put him in a better light for the jury. And at the end of the sixth grade, did you have a program or concert? Yes. We had to learn two songs, I think. We gave a concert for her parents, teachers of parents. And do you remember what song you played on your show? Just, I remember one, Twinkle, Twinkle, don't start.

Is that, did you enjoy learning that music? Oh, yes, I love music. So that's an actual clip from the trial. That was Anthony Sol on the stand, and the defense is asking him about some sixth grade band concert or something. What does that have to do with anything? I guess to humanize him to make the jury know that he's a real person. Okay.

Wouldn't work for me, but if it works for other people. There was a lot of testimony around his early childhood and the sexual abuse aspect. Earlier in the day, a social worker testified that Sowell had a dysfunctional family, and the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse goes back decades. Lori James Towns testified that Sowell saw his nieces and nephews beaten by his mother and grandmother, and that left a lasting impact. Towns testify of child abuse, is the biggest red flag for adult criminal behavior.

Assistant prosecutor Pinky Carr said so well himself was not abused and other people in that house did not grow up to be serial killers. And that's the part that I touched on in the beginning where I said there's a lot of back and forth about, you know, whether he was abused as a child. I think he told everybody he was, but everybody that was around back in the day came out and said he wasn't. So the trial goes back and forth, and it's on July 22nd, 2011. The jury comes back, convicts Anthony Sol on all but two counts levied against him.

So he's convicted for all the murders. There was two smaller counts that they didn't convict him on. We'll now read the jury's verdicts. I'll ask the defendant to please rise. With respect to the matter of State of Ohio versus Anthony Sol, criminal case number 530885 sentencing proceedings as to count one, Tanya Carmichael. We, the jury being duly impanel and sworn, do hereby find that the aggravating circumstances, which the defendant was found guilty of committing, do outweigh the mitigating factors presented

in this case by proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We therefore unanimously find that the sentence of death should be imposed upon the defendant, Anthony Saul. And there is one clip that I want to play that is actually Anthony talking about how sorry he is. The only thing I want to say is that I'm sorry. I know that might not sound like much, but I truly am sorry from the bottom of my heart. This is not typical of me. I don't know what happened.

I can't explain it. But I know it's not a lot, but that's all I can give. Yeah, not a lot. but is an understanding. I didn't say it's not, it's very typical of you. He's got a whole history. Yeah.

Could be more than, could be more than more typical. We don't know how far as history of murder goes back. I actually think it probably goes back a lot farther than 2005. But he definitely has crimes against women. That's, that started when he was a teenager and, and continued.

The only time it didn't happen, is when he was locked up for those 15 years. Yeah, exactly. I truly believe that every day of his life, he was a predator. Yeah, this is his makeup. You know, this is not a hobby or a bad habit. This is just him. That is him, man.

I just, I believe he was. He was evil, man. He was evil, especially against women. I mean, all of his crimes were committed against women. What really pisses me off is that, And it does. Think about it. He was a Marine. Everything he did went against the Marine. Creed. Creed. The Code of ethics.

Yeah, protect the weak and innocent. Right. You're supposed to take on this kind of protector, this good guy. He went against all of that. Yeah, he didn't defend the ones that couldn't be defended. You know, I mean, he took advantage of them. And the worst possible way. So ever since September of 2011, Seoul has been on death row at, Chilli-Cothe Correctional Institution, they demolished that house at 12205 Imperial Avenue in December of 2011. So they didn't wait very long. But what else you're going to do with that? I mean, there was bodies everywhere.

Well, you know, I say nobody would buy it. But there's more and more we get into this stuff. Somebody would buy it and make a museum or something out of them. Yeah, people would just like some freaky stuff. No, there's morbid curiosity about. There'd be somebody that said, I'd love just to go spend the night there. All kinds of stuff. So I'm glad they tore it down.

Yeah, they have to in a lot of instances because you get gawkers, you get people trying to get in there. And in November of 2011, his lawyers filed a notice of appeal with the Supreme Court of Ohio. What are you appealing? I mean, what are you trying to, they're just trying to get out of the death penalty. Sure. Yeah, that's all they're doing. And I think their main argument was that, you know, he was tried through the media. There was no way for him to get a fair trial.

and one of the things they focused on was that his legal representation at the time, they felt should have advised him to plead guilty. I think the evidence was overwhelming. There was no way he was going to get out of this thing. And they had him plead not guilty is what his new attorney or his new representation. Yeah, they went from pleading insanity to pleading not guilty. Yeah. And instead of focusing their efforts back then on trying to get.

him a not guilty verdict, they should have focused it on getting him out of the death penalty. But this was denied. The death penalty sentence was upheld. And there's stuff that's going on with this now because just in December of last year, there was an appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court again. It was rejected. Then in May of this year, an appeal was made to the U.S. Supreme Court. And just a few months ago, they decided.

not to hear the case. And as it stands right now, Anthony Sol is scheduled to be executed in 2020. And that could be pushed out too. Yeah. I mean, we just had one a couple months ago that the execution day arrived and the drug cocktail wasn't correct.

Something was wrong with it. So they had to stop it and they postpone it for three years from now. Just because of that one thing? Yeah. I thought, in like a month? You can't like, or at least the following year? Yeah.

What's the delay for three years? Well, nine years. So that would be nine years, 2020. That seems like pretty quick for most death penalty to actually be put to death. Yeah, I think most people like that 10 year buffer just seems like they drag out longer. Yeah. And if you don't have, I mean, this evidence is pretty solid. But in some cases where it could be a little, you could maybe flip flop a little bit.

I think you like 10 years because it gives time for more evidence to be discovered. Some people maybe to come forward. You mean where you don't have the actual dead bodies in your house? Yeah. Or the head in the bucket. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Things like that. A little tougher to get out of when you're keeping your bodies directly in the house. Yeah. When you're bringing dirt into your third floor and burying the body up on your third floor covering with dirt. Yeah. So that's the case of Anthony Seoul, not quite hometown, but in our state. Yeah.

Bad guy. Bad dude. Just, I keep using the word, but it's predator. I think this guy was a predator of women. Some scary stuff. And yeah, I was sitting while we were researching this, I probably should have reached out the Lindsay that lives up in Cleveland. But she had some stories about him. Probably. Probably did. I just, you know, it's horrible what he did. Part of the interest in this case for me is around what the police did. Yeah. I really find that interesting. And not to bag on them too much, but there is a lot of. evidence in this one that I think they could have done some things. Yeah, I mean, really stopped it a little earlier. Even up until just a few years ago, the Cleveland Police Department has taken some pretty, pretty big hits. Well, Cleveland in general sometimes takes some some big hits in a lot of areas. Yeah, that's true, especially football. All right, Gibbs,

we got some voicemails, so let's play those. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Deanna Smiley from Orange County, California. And I just love your show. So, much. I understand why everyone is team Givie because you're so funny, but I'm team T-Cat because without Mike there would be no show at all. So thank you so much. I wish I could support you guys financially, but my husband thinks my true kind of obsession is kind of freaky and weird. So, but I do support you in all other ways. I tell all my friends about your show. And I know I have a few friends that are probably listening now because a lot of them listen to you now. So we thank you so much and I'm just excited for every new episode that you have coming out. So thank you very much

and keep your time taken. Bye. That's nice. And she's right. Without you, there is no me. You would just be you at home on the couch. I don't sit on that couch, man. I'm an active guy. We appreciate the support. And she's very supportive on social media. I mean, I think even late last night she was putting things out there. Yeah. What's interesting is she said, you know, her husband doesn't understand her obsession. And we hear that a lot. Oh, I remember. From both men and women where their spouse or their significant other just doesn't understand the true crime obsession. But we do and our listeners do. So Dan is in a safe space. Yeah. I just remember being at CrimeCon last year. And people were coming up to us and introducing us to their spouses and their spouses had no clue,

you know, the level. Right. They didn't listen to the show. They were just there to support their spouse or their significant other. I think there was one couple there on their anniversary. Yeah, there was. That was hilarious. I think I'm insane because they can hear me listening to you guys all day at work. I'd love to request a podcast on Edmund Kemper. I know we know about already, but I'd love to know more.

And I know you guys talked about doing it earlier on. So I'm looking forward to that. Anyway, thank you very much. See, you guys. All right. Great voicemail from Haley. In Australia. I love that Australian oxen.

It is really cool. Now, she wants Edmund Kemper. Yeah, so how tall is Ed? Is he 6.9? I don't know. I don't know. I think 6.9. What I say?

Like 6-2 or something? I don't know. Something. Yeah, 6-1 or something. Yeah. Whatever it was, I stuck my foot in my mouth. And actually, Ed is coming up very soon. Yeah. It's something that is, that mine hunters thing just kind of, I'm fascinated by the guy that

played him. in 2018. Man, it'll be close. It'll be within a brown a month. 2018. Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. End of December early. Like it. You just roll with it, man. Sorry. Hi, Mike. Hi, Gibby. My name's Katie, and I just listened to your most recent episode. And the movie that Giv was talking about is the incredible Mr. Lundit. I know because I used to watch that movie all the time. Don Nott's is obsessed with fish. It's trying to catch one or look at one, falls in the water, turns into a fish, falls in love with the ladies.

and I think he comes back to life and realizes you should pay attention to human ladies instead of fish ladies a little weird, kind of not really beastiality because it's a kid's movie. Anyways, love your podcast. Can't believe I'm actually leaving a voicemail. Take care. And keep your own time taken. Bye. All right.

Great voicemail from Katie. And I was just telling you, Gibbs, I can't believe Katie is not left a voicemail. So she said she couldn't believe she was leaving one. I'm saying I can't believe she hasn't left. I know it. And now now we know the real insights scoop of that movie. It's so funny about what specifically from an episode is going to get the most responses like on social media. And it was definitely this Mr. Limpit movie.

It was just people were all over that Mr. Limpit. They were. And I still have never seen of it. It was a good flick. Never heard of it. It was a good flick. Go ahead and get it, watch it with your kids. I'm going to have to watch it.

said about the, you know. I don't think there's ever been one sentence before that said Donnott's Disney and Beastiality. Yeah. So we got that. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Megan from Minnesota. Just wanted to call and say, hey, love the podcast.

You guys are awesome. Love the interaction on social media. And that's it. We'll talk soon. Keep your own time ticking. Bye, guys. Well, that's cool. There's Megan.

Megan. She's on social media. She's probably on right now. Short and sweet. She got in, she got out. Hey, that's how she is on her little comments on social media too. So love it. Yep, we love it.

Thanks, Megan. We appreciate everybody. So that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. Gives you got anything else before we get out? You want to go on another hiatus, see if they can handle it? I don't think people are real interested in that. Be pretty upset with you. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Every now. It's got to be every now and then. All right, we'll be back next week. All right. So for Mike, and Gibby,

stay safe and keep your own time ticking.