True Crime All The Time - Antoinette Frank

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Antoinette Frank is a former New Orleans police officer who was convicted of three murders. On March 4th, 1995, Antoinette and an accomplice killed three people at a restaurant in the city. One of the victims was a fellow police officer. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Antoinette Frank. There are indications that more than one mental health evaluation revealed that she should have never qualified to join the police force. She was an officer for less than two years when the murders took place. During that time, she met her accomplice Rogers Lagaze, and the two hatched a plan to get some quick cash.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionThis episode is sponsored by Better Help. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/TCATTSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 306 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing very well. Good.

You and I just got done talking about this on our Patreon episode that we put out weekly. But we were sitting at dinner and I made a comment saying, you know, I know you've been going through a lot over the last weeks, months. I felt like today at dinner. dinner was the closest I've seen of old Gibby in a long time. And that really made me feel good as though, you know, you're really getting through these things and coming out the other side. Yeah, yeah, things are getting better. So let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Katrina Hagedorn. What's going on? Hagadorn. Rachel Hufford. Hey, Rachel.

Karina Galardo. What's happening, Jarlardo? Lennessa Brunswick Hey, Lenessa Ari Sean Brun What's up, Ari? Day Renee Hey Renee Kathleen Kelso

Well, appreciate that, Kelso Jolene Feltren Hey, Jolene Free Barn Free Barn in it Freebarn in it Well, yeah, I know you like to do all the other free

Whatever, I know where you're going Tara Lopez What's going on, Tara? Lisa Fanonsteel Oh, Fanon Steal Susan Sullivan What's up, Susan? Sergio Ruiz.

Well, thank you, Sergio. Darian Long. Hey, Darian. Jade Henson. What's up, Jade? Riley Snyder. Hey, there's Riley. Elizabeth Wozney.

Oh, I appreciate that, Wozney. Anna. Good old Anna. Sellyby. Oh, Selieby. Michael Chavez. What's up, Chavez? Shlohora.

Ooh, Shalola. Close enough. Yeah. Tessa Hawkins. Hey, Tessa. Cassandra Vitella. Oh, I like that Cassandra. And last but not least, Rebecca Lindsay.

Well, I appreciate that, Rebecca. Becca. Yeah, and then we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Terry Timlin. Hey, Terry. So we appreciate all the new Patreon support, the continued support. And we had some great PayPal donations from Kia Maria O'Reilly. Hey, Kia. Richard Amy. What's going on, Richard? And Morgan Wood. Hey, there's Morgan. So thanks to you all as well. Gibbs right now, we have out on Unsolved. The second and last part on the Gareth Williams story. Man, such a good case. It is. It's a really fascinating one.

You know, all the kind of intrigue, espionage, who done it. It's just one that I'm really finding very compelling. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. I'm ready. We're talking about Antoinette Frank.

She's a former New Orleans police officer who was convicted of three murders on March 4th, 1995, Antoinette and an accomplice killed three people at a restaurant in the city. One of the victims was a fellow police officer. Antoinette Frank was 23 years old when she was arrested for murder. She was born on April 30th, 1971. She was originally from Opelousas, Louisiana. Easy for you to say. I'm hope.

I think I'm saying it correctly. I hope I'm saying it correctly. But as we know. if I'm not, someone will let us know. You're indeed. Antoinette had what was called an unstable childhood. As a teenager and young adult, she experienced a troubled family life. Her brother was a fugitive from the law.

Her father was in and out of her life. Antoinette would later claim that her father sexually abused her. So we don't have all the details of this troubled life, but what we do know doesn't sound good. Obviously, there was some. things going on inside that family. Definitely, definitely unstable. Yeah.

Unstable is a good word for it. But Antoinette had wanted to be a police officer since she was a teenager. She was a police volunteer in both Opelousas and New Orleans. A criminal court judge in New Orleans police officials recommended her for a position in the department. That's pretty good when you get that type of referral or recommendation. Well, you're not getting it from your neighbor. I mean, these, it's coming from some pretty reputable individuals. So it's going to be taken seriously.

In 1992, Antoinette applied to be a New Orleans police officer in her application. She lied about being transferred from one Walmart store to another. But the investigator doing her background investigation learned she was actually fired. But even with that, the investigator, still said she was an acceptable police applicant. Well, I don't think that should have passed back then, but I don't know if it passed today, but obviously she got lucky and this individual just said, hey, you know what, today's your lucky day.

Well, let's face it, who hasn't fudged a little bit on their resume? I've seen your resume. I actually hired you. How disappointed were you? Yeah. Only with the passage of time where things revealed. I'm just kidding about that. But I'm not kidding about people fudging, but to different degrees, right?

Right. Not saying that you got fire, but you don't say that you got fire. I'm talking about, you know, maybe your, your actual title was customer service rep. Right. And you change it to be customer service liaison slash, you know what I'm saying? Just a little embellishment. I always put that out with the assistant to the assistant to the regional manager. Absolutely. Right. So Antoinette took two personality assessments. The psychologist who reviewed

the tests gave her the lowest scores for tolerance, open-mindedness, and impulse control. She scored below average instability, maturity, and probability of adjusting to organizations. And this psychologist went as far as suggesting a psychiatric evaluation. So, all right. Let's look at some of those things. Tolerance, open-mindedness, impulse control. Those three alone seem as though they would be very crucial in someone who is wanting to be a police officer. I'd almost think that would be a mandatory skill to have. All of them.

Well, you know, we know what's been happening over the last X number of years with police officers. When you're talking about impulse control, tolerance, those are must have things. According to killer behind a badge, the psychiatrist who conducted the evaluation said that Antoinette was unacceptable in integrity, forthrightness, and willingness to accept responsibility. Going as far as saying, I do not feel that the applicant is suitable for the job of a police officer. I'm hearing a lot of red flags. Everything is a red flag. Basically, this is a person who should not be a police officer.

To me, cut and dry. Yeah. From the get go, everything has screamed out. Do not hire. This person. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Antoinette submitted a written protest.

She was evaluated again and the next time she somehow passed. There was a loophole where Antoinette could go to a private. practitioner and get approval to join the police force. So in early 1993, she was hired as a police officer for the seventh police district of New Orleans. And I'm just going to throw it out, Gibbs. I think I've said this before. I view the job of a police officer as a very, very difficult job.

I have a lot of respect for police officers, good police officers. I don't have respect for some of the police officers. of these bad police officers that we've seen examples of. But I do think it's a very tough job. And I think it takes a certain type of person to be able to do it very, very well. Yeah, I think you have to have a certain temperament. Temperament. Yeah. And you know, like you said, all of these red flags are kind of flying in the in the face of what you would think of that would be needed to do the job, the way it should be done. On November 17th, 1995, the Times Picayune published a story with excerpts of a letter from Antoinette. The letter was part of a missing person report filed by

her father, Adam Frank Sr., in January 1993. This happened less than three weeks before Antoinette was hired as a police officer. In this letter, she wrote, I cannot live in this world the way I am. so I will not hold you down with me. I don't know where I will go, but I want to be away from as many people as I can. I was doomed since the day I was born. I see that now. I hate myself and my life. Adam Frank reported that Antoinette had been depressed because she was having trouble getting a job.

And I get that. You know, people go through bouts of depression. Sometimes they might write things down that later on they might look at and go, wow, I can't believe I was in that place at that time. But I think it's important because this was just right before she was hired on as a police officer. According to author Chuck Hustmire, who wrote a book on the case, Antoinette lied about her mental illness when she was hired as a police officer. In an interview with deadly women, he said she was not a good police officer.

she was timid and non-aggressive. Antoinette served on the New Orleans police force less than two years before she was arrested, which makes sense. We said she was 23 years old. Right. When she was arrested. On November 25th, 1994, Antoinette met an 18-year-old drug dealer named Rogers Lacassie. She responded to a shooting after a drug deal went wrong. Rogers was one person injured during the shooting. Over the next few weeks, she visited Rogers in the hospital and at his house. She bought him a phone, clothes, even rented him a car. The two became infatuated with each other. And there are even some sources that report that Rogers was Antoinette's nephew. Getting on the inappropriate side now. Yeah, it's one of those things where we often see.

Some sources say this, some sources say something different. But it was. reported that she occasionally introduced him as either her trainee or her nephew. But it wasn't revealed until later that they were in a romantic relationship. Antoinette occasionally let Rogers drive her police car. He not only drove the car, he also rode with her to different calls and accidents. So, you know, we got a real Mcloven situation here. McLevin from Superbad. Right. Now, I've been on a ride along. I don't know if you ever have been. We didn't call him ride along when you're in the back. I wasn't

in the bag. But I did go on a ride along one time. In Detroit, nothing really out there happened. It was a pretty uneventful night for Detroit, to be honest with you. Pretty upset, were you? Yeah. I mean, I wanted to see a little bit of action. But the guy obviously

did not let me drive the police car. He didn't let me shoot his gun in a parking lot. We didn't do any of those things. Rogers was arrested on January 10th, 1995 for aggravated battery. The charge was dropped in February because the witness backed out because they were afraid of retaliation. On February 4th, Rogers was with Antoinette in her patrol car. He jumped out of the car and threatened a man with a 9mm pistol. Like there's a conflict of interest here. Well, it's a real Bonnie and Clyde situation. And Bonnie just had.

happens to be a police officer. A week before the robbery and murders that were getting ready to talk about, Antoinette reported her Beretta 9mm pistol stolen. Rogers was at her house. When an officer took the report, he would later say the gun wasn't actually stolen. On March 3rd, Antoinette and Rogers purchased 9mm bullets from Walmart during her patrol shift. In the early morning hours of March 4th, 1995, Antoinette, Frank, and Rogers, Le Cazzi murdered 25-year-old officer Ronald Williams, 17-year-old Kwong Voo, and 24-year-old Ha-vu.

Quang and Ha were the children of the owners of the Kim-on restaurant, where the robbery and murders took place. So this Kim-on restaurant was a family-owned Vietnamese restaurant in New Orleans. Antoinette and Roger shot and killed the three victims during the robbery inside the restaurant. Antoinette has had a job as a security guard at the restaurant along with Officer Ronald Williams. According to author Chuck Hussmeyer, Williams was in charge of security. And although he didn't trust Antoinette very much, he occasionally scheduled her to fill others shifts. Chuck said that the Voo family did.

like Antoinette. They gave her birthday presents and they even loaned her money. And I don't know that this is all that out of the ordinary for police officers to kind of moonlight some of them as security. I think it happens more than we realize. The Voo family were immigrants from Vietnam. Wyn and Bik Voo and their children came to the U.S. in 1991. Quong was an altar boy at St. Bridget Catholic Church, he wanted to be a priest. And his sister, Habu, wanted to be a nun. So did you want to be a priest when you got older? No, I wanted to be a lot of things, but I can honestly say that being a priest never entered my mind, especially during high school. Yeah. I was into girls, sports. The priesthood was not something I was thinking about.

Yeah. You just said, you know what, one day I'm going to be this podcaster with this really cool co-host. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm going to be. I was thinking about in high school. Yeah. Some of your dream came true. Along with what in the hell is a podcast. According to the town talk, the Voo family kept an informal bank for people in the local Vietnamese community.

According to Kim Doe, president of the Asian Pacific American Association, this was common. He said, say you need $10,000. You can open the bank by inviting 10 people to participate, all 10. put in a thousand to make up the 10,000, Antoinette probably learned about this bank during her shifts. So she knew that there was always a lot of cash at the restaurant. So obviously we're getting into the area of motive here. On March 4th, 1995, Antoinette and Rogers went to the restaurant three times. They returned in the early morning hours as the restaurant was closing up. Chalview, the sister of the two victims who was also working that day,

entered the kitchen to count money. Chow returned to the dining area to pay Officer Williams. She saw Antoinette Frank approaching the restaurant around 150 a.m. And she would later say that she had a feeling that something wasn't right because this was the third time that Antoinette had been there that night. Chow ran to the kitchen, hid the money in the microwave, and with, went out front. You'll put the money in the microwave trick.

But I always think it's interesting when people say, I had a bad feeling and they kind of break it down. You know, this person had been here a couple of times. Why are they coming back for a third or fourth time at 150 a.m.? Antoinette and Rogers used a stolen key to enter the restaurant as Chow came back to the front. Antoinette pushed Chow, her brother, Kwok, and another restaurant in place. into the back. Chow heard gunshots behind Antoinette and then Antoinette ran back to the front. Chow, Quak and the employee hid in the cooler. But they were very concerned about their siblings,

Ha and Kwong. They didn't know where they were. From their spot inside the cooler, Chow and Kwok could partially see the front of the restaurant. And they watched Antoinette and Rogers run back and forth through the kitchen. And they also heard, multiple gunshots. Seems like there's a lot going on here. Yeah, and it's also a very scary situation. Number one, you're worried about yourself to the point where you're in a cooler,

but then you have siblings who are out in the restaurant. So you're worried about them as well. You're hearing gunshots. You don't know what's going on. So Chow and Kwok were in this cooler. They were hearing gunshots. They saw Antoinette looking in the area where they usually kept the money.

And then they saw her walk to where they would eventually find the bodies of Ha and Quang. They also heard more gunshots. It was later revealed that Quang and Ha, V, got on their knees and prayed before they were both fatally shot. Antoinette and Rogers fled to scene. Chow and Quak exited the cooler and they found three bodies. Quak called 911. All of the victims were shot multiple times. Antoinette and Rogers were driving a Toyota when they fled the scene.

She returned to the scene in her patrol car. And this was said to have been suspicious to the police because apparently she was under suspension at the time. Though police declined to say why she was under suspension. But that would be strange. It would be strange. Number one, why are you even here? because you're supposed to be suspended. So Antoinette arrived at the restaurant.

A few minutes after the first officers got on scene, she approached Chow Voo and asked her what happened. And Chow confronted her and told the police exactly what happened. Chow later testified at trial that Antoinette said, what happened to your brother and sister? And Chow said, you was there. You know everything. Why you ask me that question?

So it sounds like she was trying to be sneaky, come back as a police officer, but didn't realize Chow has seen her. Yeah, you know, there's a point in a lot of these stories that we do where we say, you know, the criminals think they're smarter than what they are. They don't account for all of the details. And obviously, this is a very big detail that Antoinette Frank didn't account for. And that was that she had been seen. And that these people were going to tell the police that she was there. She was part of it. Now a word from our sponsor, BetterHelp.

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So Antoinette, Frank, and Rogers LaCase were arrested and charged with first-degree murder. During questioning, Antoinette gave different stories. But eventually she confessed and she tried to shift the blame to Rogers. they were both charged with armed robbery and three counts of first degree murder. Police sources told the Times Picayune that Rogers La Cazzi fired the first shot, which hit Officer Williams, Antoinette then allegedly stood over Williams and shot him in the head. Ruthless. Yeah, very ruthless.

My thought, though, is that they had to have gone into this thing knowing that they weren't going to leave witnesses a lot. obviously officer williams knew them or knew antoinette for sure he hired her to work security the people at the store knew her according to the times picky un chalvoo said that when she saw antoinette coming back after eating they're less than an hour before i had a bad feeling about it i told ronnie not to open the door when antoinette came to the store the first time ha cooked her dinner when she came in the second time she shot her. Investigators believe that Antoinette used her service weapon to commit the murders, the same one we mentioned, right, that she had recently reported stolen. Rogers also

used Officer Williams's credit card to buy gas after the murders. Falsy? Yeah, that's one way to describe it. I would say dumb. Well, that's definitely another way to describe it. Is another way to describe it. I understand you don't want to pay for gas. But you've just killed a police officer and then you're going to use that police officer's credit card to fill up your tank. And you don't think there's going to be a record of that, that there's going to be CCTV footage of that. I mean, you would think a police officer better than anyone would know that that was a bad idea. Really bad idea. But the whole thing was a bad idea, right? It just doesn't seem like there was any thought that went into this. There was any processing of information or right or right.

I don't know. I don't know. The whole thing just seems Fubbar. Fubar. Okay. I've heard that in a while. The 7th district was devastated by the loss of Officer Williams. He'd only been with the New Orleans PD for three and a half years.

He was a good man. And his wife had just given birth to their second child less than two weeks. before he was killed. An officer spoke about Antoinette to the Times, Picayune saying, everyone shocked. She was one of the best people in her graduating class. She was soft spoken and not very aggressive.

It's like a different person. So I'm taking that to me. Nobody would have ever thought she would have been capable of doing something like this. Yeah. Although I don't know how many people do know someone who, if this happened, they would say, oh yeah, I just figured that would happen. Antoinette and Rogers were reigned in absentia because of death threats they received.

They were both denied bond. I think that just shows you how, you know, upset the community was. Right. For sure. That one of their own police officers was involved in shooting another officer and killing, you know, innocent civilians. Ron Williams, Sr. was very angry and told the time.

I just sat through a magistrate hearing where these murders didn't have to appear for their own safety. Who's protecting the safety of my daughter-in-law, my five-year-old, and one-week-old grandsons? Over the years, I have worked with and met a lot of good police officers. Maybe our standards aren't as high as they need to be. It takes a special type of person to kill someone they know and worked with. Yeah, I think for sure it takes a special type of person. that can do something like this to be able to go into that field of work, befriend some people, and kill one of their fellow officers.

It was reported at the time that Antoinette and Rogers stole $10,000 from the restaurant. The police also reportedly believed that Antoinette intended to kill everyone there since she was still in uniform, had no mask, and ate dinner there earlier that night. And I think that's kind of what we were touching on earlier. Yeah. And we've seen that in so many cases. If you're going to go into a place, unmasked, not concealing your identity in any way, chances are you're planning on murdering people.

You're not going to leave somebody behind to be a witness. To identify you. Right. And especially when people know you. They know who you are. You're not a stranger. She really didn't care about anybody there. For her to be able to do what she did, to go in and kill.

those people that cared about her. And we said they did care about her. They gave her gifts. They had loaned her money. They knew her very well, or at least well enough to the point where, you know, she moonlighted there. She ate there. They were giving her gifts and loaning her money.

You got to know somebody pretty well. This is not a stranger who just happened to come in and rob a store and could leave and nobody would know her name. They all knew her. Antoinette and Rogers were indicted by a grand jury in Orleans Parish in April 1995, but their trials were separated. Rogers, La Cazzi went to trial on July 17, 1995. His defense blamed Antoinette for the murders and said that she was angry with Officer Williams

because he had, quote, locked her out of lucrative private duty guard work. Rogers denied being at the restaurant during the murders and said that he was at a pool hall. So the first witness up was pool hall manager Patrick Mazzont. He testified that Antoinette Frank asked him to come up with an alibi for Rogers and say that he was playing pool. Patrick said that he was going to tell the truth. He only saw Roger's brother Michael that night. Okay, pretty damaging. Sure it is.

Prosecutor Glenn Woods played a tape of Kwok Voo calling 911. He reported that his brother and sister were killed by a female officer. Her name is Antoinette. She came in with a friend and they robbed the store and they killed everybody. Pretty damaging there. It is. You have the person on the 911 call not just saying that it was a female officer, specifically naming her and also saying that she came in with a male friend.

Prosecution has to be happy with that. That's good, solid information. I think they were pretty happy going into this, pretty confident with what they had on their side. On July 19th, Chow Vue testified about surviving the robbery. She said when she saw Antoinette and Rogers come back for the third time that night, she had some feeling and asked Officer Williams to stall them while she hid money in the microwave. When she got back to the dining area, Antoinette walked up to me real fast and said, Chow, Chow, I have to talk to you. And she's pushing me back in the kitchen. I hear boom, boom,

and she and Frank run back to the front. Chow pulled her brother, Kwok, and a worker into the freezer with her. and turned off the lights. She saw Rogers and Antoinette run back and forth in the kitchen. She heard more gunshots. When she came out, she saw Officer Williams laying in a pool of blood behind the bar. Chow testified at that point, all my confidence is gone. The person who protects us is lying there. Yeah, she had to be frightened to see him lying there. But what quick thinking gives, you know, when you really break it down for her to pull her brother and another worker into the freezer and turn off the lights. It's probably what saved their lives. Oh, yeah. Because that's one of the things about this case that was hard for me to

fully understand. It wasn't like Antoinette didn't know that these people were in the store. She interacted with Chap. So was it that she knew she had to get out of the store? quickly, couldn't find Chow. I don't know for sure. But she had to have known Antoinette that when she left that store, she was leaving people a lot. Yeah, and you know, and you don't want witnesses left behind, but she did that. Chow's brother yelled from the kitchen. Their sister, Ha and brother Quang were lying on the floor. Chow thought that they were still a lot and that they were just hurt. Quok ran outside and called the police. He used a cell phone to call friends. And then, like we said, Antoinette showed up with the police. And then later, Chow learned

from ambulance workers that her brother and sister were dead. The defense called on Rogers' mother, girlfriend and brother to establish his alibi. The problem was none of them could say where he was around 150 a.m. when the murders occurred, Michael Likaze said he picked Rogers up around 12.45 a.m. and they played pool for about an hour at a pool hall. Under cross-examination, though, he admitted that on March 25th, he told the police that he and Rogers' girlfriend attempted to create an alibi for him. In his statement to investigators, Michael said Rogers called him at 2 a.m. on March 4th and said he and Antoinette did something bad.

However, on July 19th, Michael testified that his statement was coerced and the time frame he testified about was true. So sticking with a 1245. Yeah, but to a jury that doesn't, it doesn't look good credibility wise. I get it. He's saying that what I later came out and said was coerced, but you got to think about how a jury is going to view that. On July 20th, 1995, Rogers La Cazzi was convicted of three counts of first degree murder. The jury deliberated for just over an hour. And then on July 22nd, jurors recommended the death penalty. Seems like the jury felt it was a slam dunk case against Rogers.

So I'm not really surprised that it didn't take them very long to come back with the verdict. Well, it doesn't seem as though he had much going his way. Antoinette Frank went to trial on September 5th, 1995. During jury selection, she stood up and demanded a new lawyer. according to the Daily Review, Judge Frank Marulo called her for a meeting and warned that he could gag her, bind her, and tape her mouth shut. I think I might like this, Judge. Well, I think obviously she did more than just stand up and demand a new lawyer.

She must have been pretty raucous. In the courtroom, you would think, for the judge to say something like that. When the judge asked her to elaborate on her complaint, Antoinette just, said that the courts have denied me certain constitutional rights. She went on to say that one detective told her her statements wouldn't be used against her in court. She gave a recorded confession and prosecutors planned to play it for jurors. She said that she was forced to give a statement under duress.

Now, this one's a little tough to buy for me. You know, when a police officer says that a detective told her her statement wouldn't be used against her in court. I mean, this is not a layperson with a very limited IQ. Yeah, this is a police officer who goes through all of that during training, you know, learns how to give Miranda rights, understands what all that mean. Right. If you're going to give a statement, it's going to be used against you.

Now, the claim of being forced to give the statement under duress, okay, somebody's got to make that determination whether or not that's true. Opening statements took place on September 6th. Assistant DA Glenn Wood said, we will show that Antoinette Frank met Rogers La Cazzi November 25th, 1994. We will show that on February 4th, 1995, Antoinette and La Cazi were seen together, writing in her police unit and she was in uniform. Witnesses will tell you that on March 2nd, they were seen together again in her police unit and she was in uniform. Two ladies will testify that they were to gather at a Walmart

trying to buy 9mm shells. Why is this important? It's important because you will find that Havu, Kwongvu, and Ronald Williams were murdered by a 9-mobile. millimeter. That's a good way to tie it all together. Defense attorney Robert Jenkins told the court, there's nothing in the wall that says you can be found guilty because of association.

So I think just from that statement alone, you can kind of get a sense of what the defense attorney is going for. All right. Rogers has already been convicted, but don't convict my client just based on association with Rogers La Cazi. according to the daily advertiser, Jenkins said that Antoinette and Rogers met in November 1995 and continued with, we will show that what she tried to do is help him change his life. We have witnesses who will tell you she was with him on occasion, but was trying to help him

get a job, trying to get him to go back to school, trying to get him to change his lifestyle. When she heard the shots, she was in the back of the restaurant. She runs to the front. More shots rang out this time in the back. We will have a detective tell you that at one point, Likaze held a gun on her. So now I think we get a little more insight into what her defense attorney is trying to say. Yeah, these two were together, but she was trying to get this guy back on the right track. She was trying to help him. And yes, they were at the restaurant, but she didn't do any of the shooting. She heard the shots and at one point was threatened herself. The prosecution proposed the following evidence. Antoinette gave Rogers a cell phone. The police found a cell phone in her police car.

A restaurant worker called 911 and identified the shooters and Rogers was seen trying to use Williams' stolen credit card. They also said that after the murders Antoinette admitted to shooting at Kwong and Ha while they knelt and prayed. But she said that Rogers held a gun to her head and ordered her to shoot the two. According to defense attorney Robert Jenkins, Antoinette told officers that Rogers was the shooter and told them his location. But Chow and Kwok, V, both testified at Antoinette's trial about surviving the robbery. The defense had 39 witnesses listed, but they didn't call any of them.

And it's thought that defense attorney Jenkins most likely did this in an effort to prevent the prosecution from calling rebuttal witnesses. And all that tells me is that, yeah, you got a bunch of witnesses, but their stories are going to be shredded. Right. By either the prosecution or by witnesses that the prosecution is going to call. So they can only do harm. They can't do any good or else you would.

called them. Antoinette was convicted of first degree murder on September 11th, 1995 after just 22 minutes of deliberation. Super fast. That is very fast. An hour's fast, but 22 minutes is very, very quick. That's let's get this over with one vote and we're done type deal. She was sentenced to death by a jury on September 12th. On October 20th, 1995, Antoinette Frank was formally sentenced to death. She became one of just two women on Louisiana's death row at the Louisiana Correctional Institute for Women. Then on November 6th of 1995, a partial skeleton was found under Antoinette's home. The residents of the house called the police around 8 p.m. when their dog dug up a bone and gave it to a young boy living there. The old dog dug up a bone story. It has happened

many, many times. So the father called the police. The police searched the house on the 6th and the 7th. And they found a skull. They found some other bones. They also found a partial denture. So we talked about this earlier, right? Antoinette's father was Adam Frank Sr.

Antoinette graduated from Opelousis High. And then she moved in with her dad in June of 1992. She said she last. saw her father in August of 1993. Antoinette told a neighbor that her father went to work out of town. But then she reported her father missing in September of 1993. Neighbor Lucian Howard told the Daily World, they were always together. She was a single lady who didn't have any guys come over. He was a single parent who didn't have any women come over.

It was just a close, strange relationship. I think you can make all kinds of different things out of that statement. I think you can. According to the New Orleans Corner, the bones were under the house for about a year. Antoinette's attorney said that she knew nothing about the bones found under her house. A psychiatrist who examined Antoinette in 1995 and 1999 said that she had symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder with antisocial features. She showed a lack of empathy, entitlement, rage, and manipulation. That's a good size laundry list. And obviously, these labels, these diagnoses are occurring after

the murders. But I mean, I'm even going back to the testing and all of that. I just think it's very clear. That stuff should have precluded her from being able to become a police officer. Antoinette appealed to the Supreme Court of Louisiana, and it was decided on January 17, 2001. In this appeal, she cited 32 assignments of error. The court found that none of her arguments constituted reversible error and affirmed her conviction. On February 19, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to review Antoinette's dissons. She appeared in court on February 27th. 2008, Judge Frank Marullo postponed her order of execution and rescheduled the hearing to April 14th, 2008.

The Times Picayune reported that on April 22nd of that year, Judge Marullo signed a death warrant, setting Antoinette's execution for July 15th. The judge gave her defense until June 10th to turn in their post-conviction appeal. The defense argued that it wasn't enough time. And Antoinette's attorneys did not file for a rehearing before the Supreme Court denied their request. And according to Judge Marulo, the failure to file for a rehearing was equivalent to finalizing the judgment and sentence reached by the trial court. On June 25, 2013, Antoinette's brother, Adam Frank, testified that he did not participate in the Kim-on murders. his testimony was part of Roger Likaze's post-conviction evidentiary hearing, which started on June 17th. Basically, Roger's defense argued that the prosecutors withheld evidence that suggested it might have been Adam Frank,

who was Antoinette's accomplice. Okay. Home run time. Hail Mary time. Hell Mary for sure. You got to go with whatever you can find, right? Adam testified that the last time he was. in New Orleans was in January 1995. He visited his sister and then moved

to Rayville, Louisiana. Now, he was a fugitive and was wanted for attempted homicide. So I think you could see why maybe the defense might want to make a connection to him. Sure. Because he was already

in trouble with the law. Rogers' defense attorneys argued that there was evidence that Adam bragged about murdering a New Orleans officer and possibly even had the murder weapon. In 1998, Adam Frank was arrested in Rayville after a confidential informant told the police that he bragged about killing a New Orleans police officer. Adam escaped the next day, but was recaptured within a month.

When he was caught, he had with him a 9mm Baretta Model 92G pistol. This was the same caliber make and model as. the murder weapon according to the prosecution. Seems like good evidence. It does. Now, what I will say is that Beretta 92 has been over the last 20 plus years, one of the more popular pistols. That was the official pistol of the army or the, a lot of branches of the armed services for a long time. It was replaced recently. But that was a very popular. But that was a very popular make and mob. Now, the serial number was rubbed off, but the crime lab got part of it.

And they were able to match it to the serial number of the weapon, police believe, was used in the shooting. But apparently the gun was destroyed before anyone compared it to the restaurant evidence. So, I mean, this is kind of an interesting facet of this case. It's just the fact that Antoinette's brother, Adam, ends up with the gun. that police believed was using the shooting. Well, you can see why Roger Lacossey's defense attorneys would be trying to hammer this point home, saying, Adam's got the gun.

Maybe he was the accomplice and not Rogers. Adam Frank pleaded guilty to aggravated escape and served two years in prison. He also pleaded guilty to armed robbery and was sentenced to 65 years. While he was in prison, he met. an inmate named Darren Repent. Repend said that he heard Adam talking about shooting a police officer at a restaurant in New Orleans. Adam denied speaking about the case with Darren. But here you have a number of people, Gibbs, saying that Adam Frank had been going around talking about shooting a New Orleans police officer. Now, is it true? Is it not true? I don't know. Well, maybe some of these people are

trying to build up some prison credibility. Or they're trying to get something out of it. Which we see that a lot. We do see that a lot. Whether it's a reduced sentence, it's extra perks, whatever it might be, strawberry milkshakes. Strawberry milkshakes. Adam Frank testified that officer Ronnie Williams helped him get a job in town.

He went to Kim on with Antoinette and sometimes he spoke with Chalvue. Chalvue testified that it definitely was. was Rogers La Cazzi, who was the accomplice. DA Andrew Pickett asked the judge to tell Adam and Rogers to stand next to each other. Adam is much taller than Rogers, which to many indicates that it would be difficult to confuse the two men. Yeah, I think as simple as putting me and you side by side, there's no doubt.

No one's going to confuse who we are. No, they confuse our voices with what we actually. look like. Well, that's true. I hear that all the time. When people see what we actually look like, they think that the way I sound matches you. Right. And the way you sound matches me, like we're mismatched. Yeah. Then Roger's attorney Blythe Taplin questioned at him and asked if he knew Antoinette was sexually abused by his father. He said his mom told him about it once he was an adult. Taplin also asked him if he knew what happened to his missing father. The DA's office objected to this questioning and the judge agreed.

Kwokvoo testified earlier at the evidentiary hearing. He was the only person who picked Rogers out of a photo lineup before Adam Frank testified Marco Dema, a lead investigator, testified that there was never any evidence linking Adam to the murders. But Rogers' lawyer argued against this. At Rogers' trial, Officer Stanley Morleyer was questioned about a confrontation between Ronnie Williams and Adam and Antoinette Frank. At the restaurant, Stanley denied that this happened. Then at Antoinette's trial, he testified that he and Ronnie Williams once had to kick Adam out of the restaurant.

The Times Picayune reported that Antoinette told Stanelette, told Stanney, morelier, you tell Ronnie Williams that when he messes with my brother, he's messing with me and I'll take him out. So no doubt, La Cazzi's defense attorneys are working hard to try to cast a lot of doubt on his guilt, right? They're throwing Adam Frank into the mix. And on July 23rd, 2015, Rogers LaCaze was granted a retry. Rogers attorneys argued that three jurors were in law enforcement or were relatives of homicide victims. And some jurors lied about their backgrounds during the selection process. Well, that's a potential issue. Yeah, absolutely. And you see this in a number of cases. According to the Times, Picayune, juror David Settle was a police officer

with Southern Railway and a sergeant for Norfolk Southern's police force. He was fired in 1993 for misappropriation of four tires. That's a strange thing to be let go for. What were you doing with those tires? Misappropriating them. Yeah, okay. At the time of the trial, he worked for the state police and testified that his work was related to driver's license issues.

Settle didn't say anything. When attorneys asked if anyone was related to someone in law enforcement, he didn't answer when it was asked to a second panel of, jurors. Prosecutors argued that Settle being a police officer when he served on the jury was of no moment because the rules against officers serving were overturned before Likaze's appeal was finalized. Another juror was employed by the New Orleans Police Department as a dispatcher and was working during the homicide. She attended Officer Williams's funeral. Another juror said two of her siblings were homicide victims. So Rogers La Cazi got a new trial. Judge Kirby granted him that, but the judge also said,

I find evidence of Mr. Lacossey's actual guilt compelling, but he is entitled to a new trial because his trial was afflicted with a structural defect. The violation of a constitutional right so basic to a fair trial, it cannot be treated as a harmless error. But on James, January 9th, 2016, the state appeals court reversed the retrial ruling. On October 2, 2017, the U.S. Supreme Court ordered the Louisiana Supreme Court to reconsider Rogers La Caziz bid for a new trial. The Supreme Court vacated the 2016 ruling. Rogers challenged the objectivity of Judge Frank Marullo, who oversaw his trial. Rogers argued that Marulo

failed to recuse himself from the case or disclosed that he was investigated by the police for the release of the possible murder weapon to Antoinette Frank. The gun used in the crime was reported stolen by Antoinette. We talked about that before the murders. It came from the New Orleans PD evidence and property room.

He signed the release order from the unclaimed police evidence office. And I guess at this time, as it was reported, it was fairly normal for judges to do this. Marulo said the signature wasn't authentic. His potential involvement with the case was not disclosed to Rogers' defense and was only revealed at Antoinette Franks Trump. On December 13th, 2019, Rogers La Cazi was re-sentenced to life without parole. So he got out from under the death sentence, but he's still going to spend the rest of his life in prison. According to WDSU, Rogers' attorneys pointed out his very young age, and they voiced some concerns about his competency.

They said he was impressionable and manipulated by Frank. Rogers' attorneys also filed a motion, asking the judge to reconsider his life sentence. The judge denied the motion. Rogers' mother's said she wouldn't stop fighting for her son's freedom and that she believes he is innocent. Alice Cheney told WDSU the clothes he had on the white tennis shoes. They're still white today. The long sleeve shirt. There was no powder ever found on his hands. No evidence.

No blood, no nothing. And they want to give him a life sentence without parole. It's like a puzzle. You can have a puzzle with 90 pieces. If one's missing, something's wrong with that puzzle, right? That's a good point. It is a good point. And I do think there are some people who kind of question Rogers Lakase's role in this whole thing.

Was it him or was it Adam Frank? I don't think anybody questions Antoinette, Frank. Right. But when you have some of the Vue children testify, that yes, we're 100% sure that it was Rogers La Cazzi who was in the store, the restaurant that night. That was pretty powerful to the jury, I assume. But like we ask in a lot of episodes, Gibbs, could somebody get an identification wrong? And I would say, yes, it's possible. Yeah, it's always possible. We're talking about a very traumatic encounter, scary. Are you sure that you saw

what you think you saw or who you think you saw. I don't know. I only know what they testified to. Antoinette Frank is currently 51 years old and incarcerated in Louisiana. Rogers La Cazzi is 46 years old and incarcerated at the Louisiana state penitentiary in Angola. Angola is one of those ones that you really don't want to be at. No, you hear about that one. According to movies and everything you read, I'm pretty sure. that's one where they still take you out and you bust rocks and work on a chain gang or whatever. Not easy living there. No, no, it's not club med at Angola.

I do not believe. According to Chuck Histmire, the human bones found under Antoinette's house are still under investigation. He wrote in a 2005 New Orleans magazine article, as for those human bones unearthed beneath Frank's house, so far, authorities have made no serious effort to identify them. The 10-year-old case, they say, remains under investigation. So that was written like 17 years ago. It just didn't seem to be much after that. So I don't really know what's going on over the years with the identification of these bones.

Obviously, the implication is that this could be the remains of Antoinette's father, right? in that she could be responsible for his death. Yeah, another murder. It's probably a strong possibility, too. It's obviously a strong possibility. They were found underneath her home. Does that mean she had something to do with it? No.

Does it normally mean someone has something to do with it? I would say, yeah. Yeah, the probability of it. The probability is pretty high. So as we wrap up this case, you know, to me, it was an interesting one. you have this young woman who wants to be a police officer very badly. Sounds like she had a very troubled childhood. Allegations of abuse on the part of her father.

Her father ends up missing, possibly found underneath her home. But by all accounts, she's not really fit to be a police officer. according to multiple psychiatrists who interviewed her. But yet she's hired anyway. Yeah. And then, you know, goes on to find out that these people who own this restaurant, run this restaurant,

have quite a bit of money there because they've got kind of a quasi bank set up for some of the Vietnamese people in the community. and it sounds like she and Rogers figured this is an easy way to get our hands on $10,000. Yeah, easy taken. Her gun is reported stolen, not long before the murders. Now, mysteriously ultimately ends up in the hands of her brother. Yeah. And that's, you know, throws kind of a little bit of a hitch into the case, I think.

It does. in the minds of some, especially Likaze's defense attorneys. They're trying to make a big deal out of that. And I see why. Of course, yeah. Because if this is the gun that police believe is the murder weapon, what's her brother doing with it?

Does that mean that maybe he was a part of it and not Rogers? But you have the Voo children saying, we got to look at both of them. And they were sure that in their testimony, that it was Antoinette, Frank, and Rogers La Cazia inside the restaurant that night. So just has another mystery to it. It does. I mean, it seems pretty open and shut.

But there are these little flex of doubt, I think. I don't know if it's reasonable doubt. Obviously, the jury didn't think so. Juries didn't think so. But I think it's something that you could put. ponder you can question. For sure, it's lingering there. Like you said, you're like, hmm, is there something more there?

Did something get missed? Yeah, and you have Lakhazi's mother saying, you know, he didn't have any blood on him. Now, is that true, not true? Powder burns. Did they do, you know, GSR test? I don't know. I never saw the results of that or whether they did or didn't do it. Wouldn't you think if they did that the defense would have brought that up?

The fact that they did and it didn't come, that it came back negative. Right. You would think so. You would think so. I just never saw anything about it in the reporting. Now, obviously, she doesn't want to believe her son could have done this. And I completely understand that. Oh, yeah.

I mean, what parent would ever want to be like, oh, yeah, my, my kid did that. But a jury thought he did it. He got a retrial and then a second jury. Yeah. Thought he did it, but he just got a different sentence. So it doesn't mean that juries can't be wrong, but you got to put a lot of faith in them because they're the ones that get to see everything. We don't. We only know what was reported and not every piece of information is reported.

I think it's kind of tough to go against an eyewitness too. It is. It is. But that's it for the case of Antoinette Frank. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hi, this is Melanie from Ontario, Canada.

I'm a newbie to your podcast. I have been only listening for a week or two, but I love it. Now, a big case that you guys covered from where I'm from is Paul Bernardo and Carla Halmoka. I actually kind of lived through that because at the time, I was only a couple years younger than the victims in that case. And where I live, supposedly Paul Bernardo came up to my area looking for victims. So it was a pretty scary time. Again, I'll enjoy the podcast and keep up to good work. Thank you.

All right. Love it. We always love when new people find the podcast. We do. May take a while for her to hear her voicemail. I have a feeling Gibbs that Bernardo visited a lot of areas. Yeah. Trolling for victims.

Very scary. Very scary. She's out, too. Yeah. Yeah. I think we've talked about that. Yeah. Which is also scary, in my opinion.

Yeah. Now, she may live on the straight and narrow path the rest of her life. May, may not. I don't know. Yeah. I think the argument that many people make was that the role she played should have warranted more time behind bars. I think that's the argument that a lot of people make.

I agree. She's somebody's neighbor now. Well, Mike and Gibby. This is your. friend Lisa from Canada, your little horsey friend anyways. So I just got done listening to the Chris Benoit part one and part two. And I just thought I would point out that in far as serious and major head injuries in the rodeo world, bull riding has recently really come to the forefront. And there is now testing done regularly when you start bull riding.

So they set a baseline. And as you're riding, you frequently get tested. More in the professional, I think, than in the amateur league. But I think it's coming to the amateur league. And they are constantly testing against your baseline. And if you do not fall within the proper parameters, then you are sidelined until you come back to baseline. So it's very good to hear that head injury is taking a lot more seriously and a lot of sports.

So bull riding is not one you would think of, but your brain does get smashed around a lot as they're riding those bulls. So anyway, just another little point for you. And stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Hey, I wrote a bull once. That was a full shit. Was that the name of the bull? Yeah. Okay. That's actually a really good name for a bull. Yeah. No, but bull riding is not one that I would have thought about. I don't actually know that much about bull riding. Yeah. I don't go to bull riding events. It's not something that I've ever been connected with. But when you talk about baseline, baseline is the key. I think in football and all these different sports. That's how they keep track of where somebody is. They get that baseline. So yeah, it is a good thing. Hi, Mike and Gibby. It's Sandra here from London, England. I'm fairly new to your podcast, but I am hooked already. I only really have listened to a UK-based true crime podcast, so I really enjoy your American take on things, the humour and the terrible accents that go along with it. I work as a doctor, so I really enjoyed your episode on the British serial killing nurse, Beverly Allett. And I wondered if at some stage you might do your take on Harold Chipman.

He was a British doctor who murdered and estimated 250 patients throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s. This one hits particularly close to home for me as I work in the same specialty as the shipment did, which is that I'm a GP and I do visit my most vulnerable patients in their homes. And I just find it utterly inexplicable that somebody working in my field could be capable of doing what he did. anyway, thank you so much for doing what you do and keep your own time taking. Yeah, appreciate the voicemail. Yeah, Harold Shipman has been on the list since the very beginning. He is definitely what we would call a big timer.

I'm not sure why we haven't tackled him yet other than I don't know how many episodes it'll take to get through that story because of the potential number of victims. It's very, very high. Yeah. Well, by the way, I, too, was a GP. were that is the key word is were yeah but after that investigation yeah things went downhill very quickly really quick all right but we appreciate all the voicemails we had no mailbag this week so that's it buddy for another episode of true crime all the time so for mike and gibby stay safe and keep your own time ticking