True Crime All The Time - Bernie Tiede

Episode Date: April 29, 2019

Bernie Tiede worked at a funeral home in Carthage Texas. Bernie was a people person, he sang in the church choir, and he presided over many of the funerals in town. He was one of the most well-liked individuals in Carthage. Bernie met Marjorie Nugent when he presided over her husband's funeral in 1990. This encounter began a strange relationship that progressed from Bernie working for Marjorie and moving into her house to Bernie killing Marjorie and spending much of her vast fortune.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss this strange story of murder in East Texas. This is a case that has to be peeled back because there are so many layers to it. So many people in Carthage liked Bernie Tiede that they were on his side when it came to murder charges. The case is so intriguing that a movie was made about it in 2012 starring Jack Black as Bernie. Did the events of Marjorie Nugent's murder, the cover up, and the financial crimes committed afterwards happen the way Bernie said they did?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 128 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gippee, how are you? Oh, good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. Yeah. I am doing great. You and I just got done looking at some Rex West merchandise. Yeah. That's somebody sent in the mail. It was pretty cool. It was cool. We'll talk about it more in mailbag. So you definitely don't want to miss that. There's a mention of assless chaps. There's a lot going on there. Yeah. So working on the whole Rex West. Yeah, I know it hasn't taken off like you you wanted it to. It's pretty big here locally. Yeah. I mean, I know you're at I see it advertised on bus billboards and stuff like that. It just hasn't taken off nationally to where you can really book some of those big gigs across the country. The 2018 calendar didn't really go. That didn't go off the way you thought. I mean, we're at.

Halfway through the year, still have them all. Hmm. Well, maybe part of the problem is we're halfway through 2019. Yeah. Maybe you should have labeled them 2019 calendars. That's the problem. Instead of trying to sell 2018 calendars in 2019. I thought everybody would just cross out the eight, put a nine and just move everything forward.

Change all the months. Yeah, just move everything forward a year. I mean, four a day. Oh, my goodness. Just rotate. But other than that, you're doing good? I'm good, man. I am too.

I am too. I am excited about this weekend. Are you? Well, we've got a lot of stuff coming out. Oh, I thought you meant outside of this that you were excited about this weekend. I'm like, what do you got going on, man? Well, I like the weekend in general, but. You're going to get out of your sweatpants?

Is that what you're saying? I'm not wearing sweatpants right now. That's the other problem. I'm wearing short. So, okay. On Saturday. Yeah. We have something brand new.

We hinted about it. We talked about it. It is you and I doing what is essentially a first run of what we think could be a movie podcast on the movie Bernie. Yeah. And it's coming out on Patreon this Saturday night. It will. So I'm excited about that.

It just so happens. This episode is about Bernie. So actually it came out. By the time you listen to this, it's out. Oh, yeah. What am I thinking? Yeah. Well, thanks for correct.

No, I appreciate that. You know, obviously we tape early. Yeah. But we've already taped that, the Patreon episode. We're now taping the episode that's going to come out the day after. You're right. And then on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, we're talking about the Cowden family murders. And this one's interesting.

It's mysterious. We're going to Oregon. We're going back to 1974. Oregon. Oregon, as Gibby says it. You know, this is essentially a family. that went out camping. Yeah.

And went missing. So they eventually are found murdered. And there's some twists and some turns. And we look at a suspect. And there's some interesting things that happen with the suspect as well. Yeah, parts of the investigation. Sure. Get into all that.

All right, Gibbs, we have our Patreon shoutouts. Oh, let's do those. Like that. Janice Robinette. Hey, Robinette. Teresa Bickler. Hey, thanks, Teresa. Jamie White.

Hey, Jamie. Leah. Just Leah. Anna Anderson. Hey, Hey, A. Heather Tibido. Ooh, the Tipado.

Ashley Reynolds. Hey, Ashley. Jenny Hanson. What are you laughing about? The way I said, hey, Ashley. It's kind of creepy. To me, I'm just so used to it. It doesn't even phase me.

Yeah. But it cracks you up. Your face is red. I don't know why. Ashley's like, what, what? Hey, Jenny. We had Dezzie Yackle. Ooh, I like that.

Yackle. Ya'all. What up, Yakult. Hannah. Hey, Hannah. Candice. Just Candice. Marilyn Strong.

Hey, Marilyn. And then we had somebody that put in for their uncle. And this was kind of touching. Martin Fido passed away. And he was an expert in riparology. That's a pretty interesting feel to be an expert in. No, it is. And, you know, I talked to his niece, who's the one who put the Patreon in.

You know, I think if we do Jack, which I know we will at some point, we will probably end up using some of Martin's research, some of his work. Right. You know, in preparing for that case. So I thought it was interesting. And it was amazing that a niece thought of her uncle that way. And that's cool. So, you know, I was touched by it. I do wonder what ology I could be an expert in.

BSology? No, there's actually a real ology. I should be able to be an expert in. Asless Chapology. I can just keep going. Yeah, this is not going to turn out the way I would hope it would be. All right. Keep going with your names.

M. Parker. Hey, M. Jake Workman. Hey, Jake. Mary Moody jumped out of her highest level. Hey. Is she a good moody or a bad moody? I hope she's in a good moody.

I think it's a good moody. Hey, Charlotte. Ashley Shelken. Hey, Ashley. Oh, a shellcon. Lisa Lam. Hey, Lisa. Alyssa.

Alyssa. Kaylee Croson. Croson. And Meredith Slaughter. Hey, slaughter on a true crime podcast. How about that? Yeah. And if we go back into the vault, Gibbs.

Okay. This week we selected Taylor Roy. Hey, Taylor. Longtime supporter. Appreciate that. We appreciate all the new Patreon support, the continued Patreon support. We talk about it. We've got true crime Patreon episodes out there.

Now we have a movie podcast episode out there. There's some extra stuff out there for people to listen to. International premiere. The international. We don't know what it's going to be called yet. Yeah, we talk about it in the episode, right? We have no music. We have no name.

It's just us talking. Yeah. And later on, we'll slap the rest of it in. But we had some PayPal support as well. All right. Jennifer Wormuth. Wormuth. Yvonne in the UK.

Hey, Yvonne, because she's only Yvonne in the UK. Do you call her Yuvon? Yvonne. Yvonne. I think you said Yvonne. I might have. Jane White. Hey, Jane.

Philip Blue actually gave us a sizable donation. Really? Very much. Thank you. And then we had Yvonne more. So a couple of Elvon. Not. Well, it didn't say it was.

So I'm assuming. It can only be one Yvonne in the UK because we've got her. So this is Yvonne and somewhere else. Yep. So I talked about the Patreon episode. It's out there right now. It's on the movie Bernie. And that's what we're talking about.

in this episode, the story of Bernie Tita. Not to be confused with Weekend at Bernie. Weekend at Bernie. Yeah. I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. And the murder of Marjorie Nugent, the true life story that that movie's based on. And as I think we talked about in the Patreon episode gives, a movie like this.

It just can't give you all of the details in an hour and a half. That's just not the way that movies are made. No. You know, that movie is an overview. It really, the only time it kind of goes into details on very, very specific points, we're going to do a much deeper dive, right, into the story. And I think we start off talking about the backgrounds of Bernie and Marjorie, really the two principal individuals in this story.

Bernie Tita was born on August 2nd. 1958 in Abilene, Texas. He was born to Bernhardt and Leila May. So he was named after his father. Yeah. He was essentially Bernhard Tita the second. But his dad had a very interesting history. He immigrated to the U.S. from Russia in the 1920s and settled in Texas, which seems

strange, if you think about it that way. I can't really think of too many places. that are polar opposites than Russia and Texas are. But maybe that's what the elder Bernie was going for, right? I've lived in Russia. It's cold. It's dreary. I'm going to Texas.

Yeah. Get a cowboy hat, some boots, a belt buckle. Chaps. I'm definitely going to need some chaps. I doubt this guy wore chaps or any of the other stuff I just said. He was a professor of music at a number of different. colleges in Texas. It was said that he directed, he sang in church choirs. I'm thinking that this is where young Bernie got his musical talent from. Something we're going to talk about as this

episode progresses. You remember when I used to teach? Do I remember when you used to teach? Yeah. Well, you're teaching me something almost every time I see you. That's all I need to hear. It's not good. It's not always good. sometimes it's good. There's some things that you learn at the university that you don't really want to know, but you have to know. Just like my teachings to you. Grasse Papa. The things that I really don't want to know, but you think I need to.

That's what you're saying. Pretty much. Now, Bernie's mother died in a car accident when he was pretty young. So his father remarried, but he died when Bernie was only 15 years old. So I think that's important, right? I think there's some trauma there. You lose your mother at a very early. age and then you lose your father when you're still just a teenager that can cause issues.

I'm not saying it did in Bernie's case, but Bernie would later talk about years of sexual abuse that he suffered at the hands of his uncle. He claimed that he was abused by his uncle from the time he was 12 all the way until he was 18 years old. And this will become a very important part of this. story much later on towards the end because it doesn't come out until many, many years later. Right. So Bernie graduated from high school in Abilene, Texas in 1976.

He later attended and graduated from mortuary school. And he ended up working for the Hawthorne funeral home in Carthage, Texas. Carthage is in East Texas. had a population of about 6,500 in the research as this case was taking place. I can't imagine today it's too much bigger. It's a pretty small town. I know you played the clip for the movie podcast. I still have it if you want to hear it.

I think it cracks me up when they try to explain. So there is a, there's all these cutscenes in the movie, right, where they go to townsfolk in Carthage. And there's this one that's great. It's a guy that's basically giving you his version of the geographical history of Texas. Carthage is in East Texas. And it's totally different from the rest of Texas, which could be five different states, actually. You got your West Texas out there with a bunch of flat ranches. Up north, you got from Dallas snob.

with their Mercedes. And then you got the Houston, the Carsonogenic Coast, is what I call it, all the way up to Louisiana. Then down south, San Antonio, that's where the Tex meets the mechs, like the food. And then in Central Texas, you got the People's Republic of Austin with a bunch of hairy-legged women and liberal fruit cakes. Of course, I left out the panhandle,

the panhandled and a lot of people do but Carthage this is where the south begins it's its life behind the pine curtain and and truth be known it's a good place so it's kind of an example of the really dry humor that's in this movie so Bernie made his way to Carthage he got a job at this funeral home he was an assistant funeral home director and I think he made a really good one you know people in Carthage He said he sang like a bird, like an angel. And I think he had the perfect demeanor for this job. He was pretty much Gibbs universally light. He was the kind of guy that people like to be around for a number of reasons.

He was extremely generous, even to the detriment of his own financial situation. He was the type of guy that he was very charitable with his income. and he would make people feel good about themselves. I think that's the one thing that he always did is he could walk up to somebody and make them feel better than they did prior to him walking up. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that. And the question is going to be why. Why did he do that stuff?

And I think for me, what the conclusion that I come to is he needed that validation. He needed that adoration, whatever you want to call it. He needed to be liked. I think Bernie Tita was that kind of person. Yeah. He needed everyone around him to like him. And he would do whatever he had to do to make that happen. And I'm not saying that as a bad thing.

He was very nice to people. No, no. I think he enjoyed getting the validation back that whatever he was doing was liked. And Bernie was especially liked by the older women in town. he was very, very sweet to them. You know, whether it was through his interactions at the funeral home, at church where he sang in the choir, or just around town, like you said, people were always happy to see Bernie Tita.

Yeah. Because he would put them in a good mood. They would feel better after they interacted with him. Well, he definitely would give people attention. Yeah, I think to say that this guy was a people person. would be an understatement, right? He loved people. But again, I think most of all he craved, I don't want to say attention.

He craved the satisfaction maybe of knowing that he had done something for somebody. Yeah. Or something, you know. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. And the feeling of being liked just in general. Mr. Doogooder. Yeah. I do think that was a big influence on the way he acted, the reason why he did certain things,

how he handled his interactions with people. But again, you know, those people didn't know the reasons behind why he did what he did. They just saw him as a nice, sweet guy, which really he was. There's no doubt about it. So I want to play a clip from, you know, some of the townsfolk in Carthage about Bernie Tita. Yeah. He was very nice. Bernie is a likable fellow.

He sang in the choir. He was active in his church. He could preach wonderful ser. So, you know, obviously real short, just slapped together a bunch of, you know, quotes from people. The thing about these clips, these were all from people after the murder, after they knew what Bernie had done. Yeah. And we're going to get into that more as we go along. I find it interesting that these are real clips from real people, you know.

And if you listen to the clips from the movie, which happens to be. majority of real town folk as well. The clips, they're saying the same thing, you know. He's a nice guy, give the shirt off his back, all that kind of stuff, right? It was just a good, religious, caring, heartfelt man. Now, Bernie didn't date women in Carthage, although I do think a lot of the women there would have dated him. You know, like we said, they probably viewed him as somebody very, dateable.

Bernie was gay. Something he didn't advertise around town. So not openly. Not openly gay. And, you know, this is East Texas. I don't think in, you know, that time period, that is something that he wanted to advertise. But it was suspected by, you know, some of the people in town. And again, Gibbs, I don't want to talk a lot about the movie because we covered that in the

Patreon episode. But I do think we have to talk. about Jack Black's portrayal of Bernie. He really was amazing in this film and I want to play a clip of the real Bernie and then a clip of Jack Black just to give people kind of an idea of the two. I don't know exactly what caused that morning to happen. I called her and I said, we're going to Longview. I'm going to run to take my clothes to the cleaners. Would you like to ride with me? We'll go to Hunans and eat some Chinese food. And she said, Yeah. And so I went out there to go and pick her up. And I don't know, it was just, she was starting nagging at me. It's about something. I don't know really how that felt. But it felt like that because it was really, I got scared. I got scared. And I didn't know what to do.

I never thought of me killing Mrs. Newcham. I guess I fantasized about her death, but I was never the one responsible for it. She always died accidentally, like in a car accident or falling down the escalator at the mall in Longview. I was always the one weeping by her open casket, comforting others, being comforted myself. It's pretty close. Yeah. No, I think people can figure out which. one's which one's which right the first one's the real bernie the second one's jack black i think he spent

a lot of time with the real bernie getting his mannerisms how he's now he might have played a little bit more over the top i think he probably did with the voice yeah um but uh but it was good you know he he gave a very good performance now bernie tita met marjorie nougain at the hawthorne funeral home in 1990. They met when Marjorie's husband Rod passed away and Bernie handled his service. So 1990 Marjorie was about 75 years old. Bernie was about 33. Just to kind of put it in perspective, Marjorie was also now worth millions and millions of dollars. Her husband had made a lot of money in the oil business over the years. Sure did. She was the richest woman. in Carthage, but she was definitely not the most well liked. That was no secret. Everybody

pretty much as a majority felt that way about her. In fact, most people didn't like her at all. I mean, at all. She was disliked. They thought she was snooty. They thought she was mean. People would avoid her in town. I think they would cross the street. Yeah. If she was walking on the same side the street that they were. She had a grown son named Rod who was a pathologist. And she had four grandchildren, but I don't think family was real important to Marjorie. It was either that or her family had made her so mad over the years because she rarely saw them. And I think made it pretty well known that she didn't care to see them. Yeah. I mean, the impression I got was it's her way, and either you go along with her way or you hit the highway.

Is that the same as like her way or the highway? You just added a bunch of things in the middle of it. It can't be. There's a difference, a slight difference. Yeah, she also had a couple of sisters. I think she had one sister that lived in town in, you know, in the Carthage area. Yeah. I don't think she saw her.

Tells you how close to. Yeah. It just shows you what she really thought of family. Not much. Right. All right, Gibbs. Let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsor BetterHelp. If there's something that is interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals,

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So after this service, right, her husband passed away, Bernie began visiting Marjorie at her house. And this wasn't unusual. This was something that Bernie did with many of the widows in town. It was almost Gibbs like he thought it was his duty, right? To follow up with these women to make sure that they were okay after their husband. passed away. Yeah, he'd like to come in and pick up the pieces and just make sure, like you said, move them forward and get their mind off of what happened and help life carry on.

I think it's part of the reason why Bernie was so beloved in the town. But again, we said it. He went out of his way to really endear himself to the people in town. But something different happened with Marjorie Nugent. One visit led to another. and within weeks of the funeral, Bernie had moved into her home, had become her personal assistant slash bookkeeper. And over the next couple of years, right, they just continued to get closer and closer. They traveled on trips together. They went shopping together. Well, when you say they traveled on trips together, it was some big trips they traveled on. Oh, yeah. They weren't going to the neighboring state. I mean, they were going to Acapulco and Russia. I mean, these were big time trips.

Again, money was no object for Marjorie. And I think she enjoyed lavishing her money on Bernie Tita as long as he did what she wanted him to do. And we're going to, you know, that's going to be a big theme in this episode. They attended events in town together. They were seen together. Essentially, they were spending a lot of time together. Yeah. Is it safe to say he found himself a sugar mama? I would say so. I would say so.

And at a certain point, pretty early on, I think he gained power of attorney over Marjorie's affairs and was authorized to write checks from her bank accounts. Man, there you go. That's going to play huge. Yeah. You know, in this story. How do I get a sugar mama? I don't know.

I need a sugar mama. I don't have one, so I don't know how to tell you to get one. I know. My wife's a teacher. She's not, yeah, she's not going to be a sugar mama. She's going to be a mama. Yeah, she's a mama. Oh, it is a mama.

No sugar mama. Yeah. Now, what I will say is that everyone that knew the two of them after they started spending all this time together said that Marjorie was happy. Bernie made her happier than she had been in a very long time. He was extremely devoted to her. He doaded on her. I think in Bernie Tita, Marjorie got the attention that she needed.

Well, he would definitely give attention. So make people, like I said, he made people feel good about themselves. So I'm sure he made her feel terrific about her. Well, so take Bernie, who made people feel great about themselves in these limited interactions. Now he's essentially her. housemate. He's with her all the time. So all of his wanting to please other people is basically going to Marjorie. Yeah. I think she wanted someone to be there for her every need. And that is basically what Bernie did. That's the role that he filled. He cut his hours at the funeral home down to part time

just to spend more time with her by 1993. Right. So this is three years. that they've kind of been together. And together is a strange word. It's not sexual. This is not a sexual relationship. So Bernie's living there. You know, he's doing things for her, right? Kind of employed by her.

In return, he gets to live in this really nice mansion and has all those additional financial benefits, traveling and driving a nice car, her car, and doing things like that. in return she's getting what some emotional benefits from him plus all of her errands yeah he's doing all the things that she needs somebody to do sure yeah not a bad gig for him or for her because i like i said she was happy people said that but by 1993 Bernie had quit his job at the funeral home altogether he became marjorie's full-time companion just with her you know every second of the day but he

also became her business manager. Marjorie liked Bernie so much that she eventually struck her family from her will. And this was a sizable amount of money. Yeah. I think I read her estate was worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 million or she was worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 million. It's a good chunk of change. She had quite a bit of money, completely kicked her family out of the will and made Bernie Tita her sole beneficiary. Now, there are some reports that Bernie might have nudged that along, planted that seed, made it happen in some way, but obviously she had to go along with it. Yeah, but still, 1990, five million bucks, big money.

It's big cash. So how did your family take it when you remove them from your will and add at me? They weren't happy. They weren't happy. First of all, they said, why in the world would you leave him anything? Well, at least you can just leave me this newer chair you finally got me. Newer chair. You crack me up.

Anytime you get stuck, anytime you get stuck and you don't know what to say, you go back to the chair or you go to the furries. That's it. That's your two. You got to come up with more. Since you brought that up, do not leave me the furry costume. Oh, that's in the will. That would be the one thing I'd leave you.

Yeah, I don't want the furry costume. We can leave that to one of our furry listeners, you know, they know exactly what needs to happen with that. Which we have, a number of them. Exactly. Yeah. And I don't want your crazy looking bobblehead things that keep staring at me down here in the studio. So I think this relationship is key, right, in understanding how it worked.

Like I said, people said that Marjorie was happy, but people also said it was a strange relationship. You know, many people described it that way. And I think over the years, it became stranger and stranger. For one thing, Marjorie became more and more controlling. She wanted to know where Bernie was at all times. She expected him to essentially be at her back and call every minute of the day. Boy, I know what that's like.

do you yeah you you don't even return my texts how could you be at my beck here you go on me already well not returning the text from three nights ago yeah it's only been three nights you don't here i am you still haven't returned it it's been three days well i return it i'm here because it just sits out there and makes it look like you you didn't respond to me there were reports Gibbs that marjorie forced bernie to give her massages okay you're a person assistant, maybe, maybe. Also, to shave her legs, might be crossing the personal assistant line. I don't know. I've never had a personal assistant. And you try. And I'm like, hey, hey, uh-uh. I try to make you my personal assistant. It won't happen. You think I would let you run my latex company.

That's what you think. Yeah. That ain't going to happen. Yeah. I should know better. But I think as this controlling behavior increased, Marjorie became more verbally abusive. She became more emotionally abusive towards Bernie. This was a relationship that was going downhill very quickly. And it was on November 19th, 1996. So there are six years in to this relationship. They were leaving to run some errands. They were going to get something to eat.

Bernie picked up a 22 caliber rifle and he shot 81 year old Marjorie Nugent in the back four times. Four. As she bent over to pet her dog. So she's dead. Bernie has killed her with this 22. He then proceeded to clean off her body. He wrapped it in what I saw was a lands end bed sheet. Okay.

And then he put her body. in the freezer. So he cleaned her up, wrapped her up, and then stuffed her in a freezer. Yeah. Yeah. Now, he's going to talk about it later, but again, he's a mortician. Right. So would a person with a different vocation clean the body before they put it in the

freezer? I don't think you're going to be eating anything out of that freezer anyway. I would hope not. But would a mortician do that? Maybe. Maybe that's just what he's used to doing. But her body would remain in this freezer for the next, nine months. I just froze. I just panicked. So I thought, well, I put her in the freezer,

you know, being in the funeral business, you know, you keep a body cool, keep it cold. You tend to it later on, and that's what I did. I just took out some food from that little freezer room, just right off the main, the door that goes into the house. People think that she was in the kitchen and all that kind of stuff. It's right there. It's just a little pantry. It's right by the door leading from the garage into that. There's no big deal. It was right there. It's just no big deal.

No big deal. Just a body in the freezer. She's in the freezer. What's the big deal about that? Everything's all right. It's like being at the freezer at the funeral home. But he did kind of say it, right? That I don't know how he worded it exactly,

but it was almost like his mortician instincts kicked in. But this nine-month period, it was a mix of the bizarre and the comical. Obviously, Bernie had a problem on his hands. Because even though Marjorie was not what you would consider a well-like person, there were still people who would interact with her on a somewhat regular basis. How is Bernie Tita going to hide the fact that he has killed her and stuffed her in the freezer? I think pretty well, actually, in fact, at least for as long as he could keep the chariotic.

grade going, which is nine months, right? We know it's nine months long. One thing that Bernie had on his side was, as we mentioned, Marjorie was estranged from her family. So he really didn't have to worry much about that. I think her sister did, or some, she had one family member in Carthage. I can't remember. I think it was a sister. It might have been somebody else, but that person did ask about her a number of times, but nobody outside of this one person, you know, her son never asked. I don't think the grandkids really asked. How sad is that? Seriously. Well, it's pretty sad. Yeah. It's pretty sad. The individuals that Bernie did have to deal with, I think most of them were financial people who handled in some way Marjorie's money.

It's a sizable amount of money. Sure. She had a financial advisor. There were people at different banks. But all of these were people that Bernie knew, and they were people that knew him. He had been on her accounts for a number of years. So he had been interacting with these people and had the authorization to do so. He'd pretty much been in charge of her finances, paying her bills, doing everything. Yeah, you know, it's income for him too. But the thing was, he just had to keep making up stories. Story after story, right? As the months went by as to why people couldn't see Marjorie,

why they couldn't talk to her on the phone. You know, the problem with that is, is once you tell one lie, one story like that and keep building onto it, you kind of got to worry that you might forget how you originally started it out. Yeah, it's very hard to keep the whole web of lies together. right, for a long extended period of time. He would say that she was sick. She was on an extended vacation.

She was in a nursing home. I think at some point he started telling people she had Alzheimer's. But after Marjorie's death, Bernie started spending her money at a pretty staggering pace. It was said that he threw some expensive parties. He bought cars for people in town. He helped other people out with their... mortgage if they were behind on their bills. And this is one of the big things to me, Gibbs, is that, yes, he spent a ton of her money. But if you look at it for the most part, I won't say

in every instance, but for the most part, he used the money to help other people. It's like Robin Hood. Almost. He gave one of his good friends, Wyatt Henderson, who I think he had met at the funeral home or worked with at their funeral home at one time, about $250,000 over a period of time, 75,000 of that went to open up a Western store. There you go. In downtown Carthage.

Good place to get your... Get boots, buckles, chaps. Chaps. He sank a good deal of her money into a business called Carthage Aviation. Yeah, he liked to fly planes, didn't he? He did. He did. In total, he spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of her money.

But all good, but, but for the good of the community. For the, yeah, for the most part, I think it really was. There wasn't a lot of it where he was getting this huge benefit out of it financially. You know, it was said that the Western store never actually made any money. Yeah. It wasn't like he was, you know. Living high off the. getting a kickback off of that.

He pledged $100,000 to the church for them to build an addition. So I talked about Bernie having to make up all these stories to many different people as to where Marjorie was like we talked about nine months is a long time to keep that up. And eventually people start to really question, you know, all these different stories. They start to call the sheriff. saying, hey, something's just not right here. And eventually the sheriff thinks, yeah, something's, something's wrong. Marjorie's son, Rod, was contacted and asked to come to Carthage.

And he did. And he brought along his oldest daughter. So that would have been Marjorie's granddaughter. Sure. So along with the sheriff, they entered her house. But no sign of Marjorie. So the sheriff and his deputies are searching the house. They're looking for her.

looking for any clues, right, that might lead them to more information about where she is. It was actually her oldest granddaughter that looked at the freezer and saw that it was taped up. And she thought that was strange. Why put tape on the freezer? When the deputies opened it up, they found Marjorie Nugent inside. She had some food on her. And she was hidden a little bit. I saw one report that said she had a big old turkey on top of her.

Turkey sitting on top of her. Well, that is strange to have tape on a freezer, I think. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe not at my house. I seem to have tape on quite a few things that don't, that won't stay shut or don't work the way they're supposed to. I remember that time you tried to tape me. It didn't go well, did it?

Try to tape my phone away from me and tape it down to the desk and tape my hands to the chair. So I couldn't move them. Yeah, none of it worked. would never try to do that because I know it wouldn't end up well. But man, if I could blink my eye or twitch my nose and make it happen. Yeah. I'd be a happy man. Yeah. Good thing you can't. Samantha. So, you know, obviously it didn't take them long to pull Bernie Tita in for questioning and didn't take him long to confess. He confessed pretty quickly to the murder. Bernie said in his confession, I had thoughts of hitting Marjorie on the head with a bat or anything for a couple of

months prior to November the 19th, 1996, but I didn't want her to suffer. She had become very hateful. She had become very possessive over my life. She was now evil and wicked. But I still cared for her. He went on to say that he shot Marjorie four times. Then he cleaned her body and put it in the freezer. And like we kind of mentioned, Bernie said he was thinking like a mortician. He had to preserve the body until he could give Marjorie a proper burial. And to me, this is one of the biggest parts of the case. I guess one of the biggest questions, I should say, for me. Did it happen as Bernie said it did? You know, did he really just get so fed up with Marjorie and the way that she had been treating him,

that he snapped. He'd been thinking about, you know, something bad for months. And then all of a sudden that day, that was it. You know, he snapped. He lost it.

Then once he figured out what he had done, you know, did he clean her body, put her in the freezer out of respect for her, right? You know, thinking, I've got to freeze her body.

That's the only, way to preserve it until I can figure out some way that I'm going to be able to give her a proper burial. I don't know how he thought he was going to ever be able to do that as opposed to Gibbs sticking her in the freezer because I just need to get her out of the way. Exactly. To me, that's like one of the biggest questions in this case. Not that it, I don't know that it matters a whole lot because he still killed her. It fascinates me. Yeah. I mean, I kind of think. he thought he was doing the right thing with the body. I think after he shot and killed her and the initial shock went away, his profession kicked in.

I think so too. I really do. I don't know. And we may get into this later. I don't know. But I don't know if he really snapped in this dissociative state that people are going to claim later on that he was in. like he didn't really know what he was doing. Right.

I don't know about that. But I do think after he killed her, it was almost as if he had to take care of her. And I mean take care of her in a, I guess in a good way. Yeah, no, yeah, I get it. You know what I mean. That's why he cleaned the body up and yeah. Another very interesting part of this case is how victim and perpetrator were viewed in the city of Carthage. there were many people saying, oh, no way Bernie could have killed Marjorie, even after it came out that he had confessed.

Yeah. And he didn't just, you know, verbally confess. He wrote it all down. People still wanted to hold on to the fact that he couldn't do something like that. Well, not my Bernie. No. There's no way. You know, the sheriff came out and said that they found, I think, over 50 videotapes showing men in homosexual acts.

I think in Carthage, that was probably pretty big news. I would think. But I just think no matter what came out about Bernie, none of it really mattered. They just didn't want to believe that this person they had known for years as this great guy was a murderer. And to that point, some of the elderly women that loved Bernie to death, they were baking pies. They were making cakes to bring to Bernie in the jail. They really were, man. Knowing that he has confessed to killing this 81 year old woman.

I think the saddest part of it all is that no one really cared at all that Marjorie Nugent was dead. They just didn't care. No, the concern was what's going to happen to Bernie? The focus was on Bernie. There was one councilman in Carthage was, quote, is saying, from the day that deep freeze was open, you haven't been able to find anyone in town saying, poor Mrs. Nugent. People here are saying poor Bernie. And I think some of this may have been what drew some of the national media to Carthage to cover the story. But once they got there,

they began getting all of these great soundbites, right? From the townspeople, you know, the mayor, anyone else willing to talk inside edition, hard copy, you name it. The other thing that really kind of threw me for a loop was that the pastor at the church, where they both attended, asked for prayers for Bernie, but not for Marjorie or her family. Which is strange. Right. I guess they have a prayer list and Bernie's name was on the prayer list for like a year and a half, I think. Marjorie's never even made it on. And if you think about it, the money that was donated to the church was from Marjorie. It was.

We're going to talk about it. It never actually made it to the, they never actually got the benefit of it. But did they know that? Because it's all coming from Bernie. You know, Bernie's writing the check, although it had to have had Marjorie's name on it, right? I would think of that dollar amount. He's writing the checks from her account, I would think. So everyone loves Bernie.

They're backing Bernie. I shouldn't say everyone, not everyone, but a large part of the population in Carthage was behind Bernie. Absolutely, they were. I think what it did is it made it very tough on the district attorney Danny Buck. We talk about Danny quite a bit in the Patreon episode because he's played by Matthew McConaughey. All right, all right, all right. This guy had people in town coming up to him all. over the place saying, hey, leave Bernie alone.

Yeah. Don't mess with Bernie. He's a good guy. He couldn't have done it. This is a man that confessed to killing a woman. And if he did, they did think he did it. They're like, could you blame him, basically? Right.

Yeah. You're right. I don't think everybody was saying he didn't do it. I think there were people that knew he did it, but they were still trying to excuse it. Definitely trying to justify it. or justify it in some way. I mean, really bizarre, if you think about it, for somebody, two people to be in town, one's dead, one's the person that did it, and they're all champion around.

I mean, maybe she wasn't the nicest person, but it wasn't like she was some kind of criminal or doing something terrible to people, or just wasn't well liked. Well, add on top of that, he didn't just kill her. He committed a litany of financial crimes after the fact by essentially stealing probably half a million dollars or whatever it was. It was hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. But back to the DA, right? All these people coming up to him, this is really one of the only cases Gibbs that I've ever heard of where the prosecution, not the defense, the prosecution wanted a change of venue. Because they didn't think that they could get an impartial jury for a trial involving a man that had confessed to murdering another resident of the town.

And let's not forget, an elderly 81 year old woman. Yeah. No, I think if they would have had the trial in the hometown, it would have been a different story. Oh, yeah. If the jury was made up of folks from Carthage, I think it would have been different. Totally different outcome. because I think he was right. I think Danny Buck was right. And ultimately the trial was moved a couple of counties away. So Bernie went to trial and the prosecution presented all this evidence,

including his written confession, all of it, you know, out in front of the jury. Bernie's defense attorney was this guy named Scrappy Holmes. What a name. I know. Scrappy. He was Scrappy. He was Scrappy. He tried valiantly to defend Bernie to say what a good person he was and how he had been driven to commit this crime. But I think the issue in this trial was Scrappy didn't have a, it's almost weird to say that, hey, Scrappy didn't have a mental health expert or anyone like that, right? Anyone from the psychiatric field that could testify to that fact that Bernie, had been driven to kill by some mitigating factor. And on the stand, Bernie testified. You know, he said that he shot Marjorie four times. He said that he dragged her by her feet

to the freezer and that he put her in. He even talked about, you know, the fact that he washed the blood from the garage with a hose. He raked up the bullet casings and put him in a pile of leaves. then he went home, he took a shower before going to the local college for a play rehearsal that he was directing. It's one thing we haven't talked about. Bernie Tida was into the theater big time. Oh yeah. He was acting in plays.

He was directing plays. Singing. He was singing. He was into musicals big time. So after they have this rehearsal, he took all 40 of the students that were in this play out for pizza. This is what happened the night that he murdered Marjorie Nugent. And he's on the stand telling the jury this.

I mean, to me, Gives, this doesn't sound like the actions of a man that just can't, he can't believe what he's just done. He's so shook up that he's going to go off to the play, do the rehearsal, then go out for pizza. I found that very odd. It's kind of strange. And I think the jury did too. They convicted Bernie of murder.

I think they wanted to see some remorse. I think he had remorse. Well, probably immediate remorse is what I mean. Oh, you mean that, yeah, right then and there. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was remorseful to the jury. But that story or him telling about the night, you're right.

That's a man that's just going to go about his business. Yeah. It's hard to play off that one. So he got a life sentence. He would be eligible for parole in 30 years. Now, you might say this is Texas, right? Why no death penalty? From what I read, it was not an option because the prosecution couldn't prove that he had committed

the murder for personal gain or that he had committed it during the commission of another felony. So it didn't meet the criteria, I guess, for the death penalty. So Bernie's convicted and he shipped off to prison. He was attacked right off the. bat. As soon as he got to prison. And I'm not sure if there was a special reason for the attack or just the fact that prison is a dangerous place. Yeah. And there's a chance that you could get attacked. You could get shanked with a shiv. You can get shived with a shank. You can get a lot of

things that start with a mess. None of them are good. No. But there were a lot of people in Carthage that felt the effect of Bernie being gone. I mean, we talked about it. Bray. Bernie had given out so much of Marjorie's money to help people out in Carthage that they kind of came to depend on him. Well, probably more accurately, they came to depend on Marjorie's money. Exactly. But with him gone, that money dried up and those people couldn't make it, right? They started getting hounded by bill collectors. The hardest hit was probably Wyatt Henderson and his wife, because they had received the most money by far. I think it was, you know, maybe a quarter of a million dollars, something like that.

Yeah, it was. Over the years, they were sued civilly by Marjorie's family after all this came out. The IRS froze their assets. The Western store went out of business. Another person that was hit hard was Joe Mosier. That was Bernie's business partner in the Carthage aviation business. after Bernie was arrested, the IRS came in and seized the company. Because basically, Bernie had put up all the money for this business using Margie's money.

So he was the money guy and this Joe Mosier was kind of running it. Right. The business. The business back. Yeah, he was the business guy. And I kind of mentioned it, right? The church never got that 100,000 that Bernie pledged. But they carried through with the addition.

assuming they were going to get that money. So they were $100,000 short. They put them in a very deep financial hole. I mean, there was a whole mess of civil lawsuits launched as a result of all this. I mean, most of those by the Nugent family. I guess what I'm getting at is there was a lot of people affected by what Bernie Tita did outside of what we normally talk about in the victim and the victim's family. And there was just regular citizens that were deeply affected by what he had done.

We know a lot of elderly women were very upset. It wasn't all about the money. I think there were a lot of people, I think, like you're alluding to, that were hurt just because they loved Bernie so much. They had put so much trust in this man over the years. They felt hurt. They felt betrayed by Bernie Tita. But again, to me, it seems as the.

there were many more people mourning the loss of Bernie Tita to prison than there were mourning the loss of Marjorie Nugent's life. It's very strange. This whole thing is strange. The whole dynamic behind it. It is. Now, you know, we talked about her family. Many of them came out and they said they hadn't seen her in years. And the last time they did see her at her home, she just came out and told them. She didn't want to have. have anything to do with them. This is her family. Her kids, her grandkids. You imagine?

I cannot imagine. But it goes to the fact that she was not a nice person. Yeah. I mean, there's just no doubt about it. She didn't deserve to die, but she wasn't a nice person. So Bernie's doing his time in prison. He's in the prison choir. He's teaching some classes. He's doing arts and crafts. From what I understand, he was pretty well liked after the initial beat downy he took. You do arts and crafts. Sure. I've seen your little arts and craft table over there. I'm manly enough to admit that. I know. I think it's cute that you do that. Bernie was described as a model inmate. But if you think about it, he's doing some of the same things on the inside that he had done on the outside. Oh, you know he's befriending everybody. Oh, he's singing.

Yeah. They're probably putting on plays. He's helping everybody. He's probably like, Bubba, I know you having a rough day. I'm here for you. Not here for you, but I'm here for you if you need to talk. Let's listen to this short portion of an interview that Bernie did in prison. This is really what happened. I mean, I did something horrible. And I regret that every day for the rest of my life. And if they gave me 3,000 years in here, they could never take that away from me. I have to live with this every day of my life. And Margie comes and talks to me all the time at night when I'm in sleep. And I'm telling you, I have to live with this for the rest of my life. Well, you should live with it for the rest of your life. You killed someone. But I like the

part where he's talking about Margie comes to him, you know, at night when he's sleeping. What does she say? Dumbass. You killed me. Yeah. What are you doing? I gave you everything. She's like, once I got up here, I found out I was going to go about two more weeks anyway. And you would have had it all. You shot me too soon. But the one thing that Bernie didn't do in prison, he didn't stop fighting. He hired a new attorney who in 2014 successfully argued that Bernie had suffered years and years of both sexual and emotional abuse. So we talked about, you know, in the very beginning, it didn't come out until 2014.

They argued that all of this should have been, you know, revealed. it should have been a factor in his original trial. And at the very least, it should have played a part in his original sentencing. Bernie's attorney argued that a life sentence was way too harsh for the crime and the circumstances of the crime. And even the Texas state Supreme Court agreed. Yeah, they said that he should receive a new trial to decide his punishment. And again, in a case to me that is full of. strange aspects. This is yet another one. Not the fact so much that, you know, he's going to have a new

trial, but he's released from prison. Yeah, this is kind of interesting. In 2014. Yeah. On $10,000 bail, which doesn't sound like much for somebody that has a life sentence. Right. But he goes to live in an apartment owned by this guy Richard Link Letter. This is the guy that made the film Bernie. Yeah, famous director. Pretty famous. He's, he's, uh, he's done some good movies. Yeah. So a couple of things that ticked a lot of people off, namely the jury that set and made the decision on Bernie's first trial. They didn't like it at all. They thought, you know, this man was guilty. He got the right sentence. Even if they had known about the sexual, emotional, abuse as a child. They said it wouldn't have changed their, you know, their thought process in any way.

The other people that were not happy about this was Marjorie's family. You know, this is a man that killed their mother, their grandmother. And he's back on the streets. Yeah. So they have another trial, but it doesn't start until 2016. So essentially for two years, he's a free man. The prosecutors, they, you know, once again, they portrayed Bernie as this greedy person who intentionally conned Marjorie out of her money and he killed her to cover it up, right? It wasn't just that he took her money after she was dead. You know, they argued that he'd been spending her money for a long time and he had. The question really was, was Margie, how much of it was Margie aware of and was she okay with?

Exactly. Because there's a lot of people that have said Margie knew about a lot of that stuff. And she was totally fine with him spending her money. Yeah. I think she probably was. But their argument was that she wasn't. She found out about it. And he killed her.

And they said, hey, his original sentence was right. It fit the crime. It was justified. It was justified. But the defense argued that Bernie snapped due to years and years. years of abuse that he suffered as a child. And this time, they did have psychiatric experts. You know, they didn't have any in the first trial. But this time they did. They testified that the childhood abuse he suffered caused this. And I kind of already gave it away, but this dissociative

episode at the point in time when he killed Marjorie Nugent. So essentially he didn't, you know, he didn't know what he was doing. They said that the 17 years he'd already spent in prison was enough of a sentence. He should get out, you know, with time already served. And the defense had some more witnesses. They had three in fact that took the stand and told jurors that Elmer Doucette, this was Bernie's uncle, had sexually abused them as well. So that definitely added some credence to Bernie's allegations against his uncle. they brought up Bernie's relationship with Marjorie. They actually compared Bernie to a battered wife.

They were essentially saying in this situation, Marjorie Nugent was the abusive husband. Emotionally abused him is what they're saying. Yes. But none of this really landed with this new jury. They came up with essentially the same, you know, verdict and sentence as the old. jury. It was on April 22nd, 2016. The new sentence was 99 years to life for Bernie.

They deliberated for about four hours before coming to this conclusion. And later, the sentence was upheld by the Texas Court of Appeals. So my question is, what's the real difference here? Life, 99 to life. Yeah. Maybe he comes up for parole a little. I couldn't find when he, when he's up for parole now. He was going to be, it was 30 years. Right. So he, you know, this maybe the 99 to life gives him parole a little bit sooner. That's what I'm thinking. He just has an option to get out sooner. But I will say this. This is a story that put the little town of Carthage on the map in a couple of different ways. I think it will always be part of the town. And I want to play this clip of some people in town kind of echoing that. Well, like I say, it's a bit of Texas folklore. It's going to be here. probably long after I'm gone.

They've done so many different things on Bernie. Years ago, they had some folks came through here, and they made a video. They interviewed Danny Buck and Sheriff Jack and all that, and so many others that were directly involved at that time. And so this is, I kind of agree with however, this is going to be ongoing. It's not going to stop today.

It's not going to stop tomorrow. It's going to keep on because this is part of East Texas. It's part of Carthage. That's what really put Carthage on the map, is the Bernie case. But I think, you know, 50 years from now, if you can go online and check out Texas Monthly or do an online search for Texas murders, this is going to pop up. So small town, well-publicized murder. Oh, yeah.

It was huge. Yeah. And how many years are we, you know, past when the murder happened? I think those guys are right. It's just a part of Carthage history when they don't have a lot of history of this type of thing. Now, the one thing I will say is that I think the view of many people in Carthage regarding Bernie Tida, it changed quite a bit over the years. So many of the people that at first thought he shouldn't be convicted, it couldn't have been him. I think they changed their way of thinking.

Many of those people, by the time of the second trial, believe that, you know, he did this. He should serve his full time. There was a lot of articles about that. Now, a lot of time had had passed, right? 17 years changes people's thinking. Yeah, it really does. But that's it, Gibbs. That's the case of Bernie Tita.

I just think it's one of those fascinating cases because it has so many different layers. to it. You know, how many cases do we talk about where the killer, the perpetrator, is this beloved, unbelievably nice guy that the whole town is, is Gaga over? Yeah, rooting for him. It just doesn't have, yeah, they're essentially they're rooting for him after they find out he's the killer. For me, I think it's just bizarre that they have to move to trial to get a fair trial, not for him, but for her. Yeah. You just don't hear that.

Hey, we're moving the trial because if we don't, the guy that is guilty will get off. Yeah, a man that took advantage of an elderly woman, spent her money, killed her, and we're not sure if we can find enough jurors that with the evidence we have, which includes a written confession, we'll put this guy away. It's like I've said, I'm telling you, if they would have had the trial in town there, I think we'll be looking at a different story. Nope, I agree. All right, we've got some voicemails. You want to hear those?

Yeah. Hi, my name is Cecilia, and I'm from Australia. I've been listening to your show for about a couple months now, and I love it. I like how you present the stories. I like how you have all these opinions about the crime. I really enjoy listening to you guys and your funny accents. Yeah, I work as a housekeeper, so it's really great for me to listen to your podcast where I'm working. And yeah, I just want to say, keep up the good work.

And, yeah, see you around. All right, from Australia. Aye, good to hear from you, mate. Mate. Mate. She had a very, what's the word, Gibbs, slight accent. Yeah. She didn't have a strong accent.

Kind of like mine. Mild. Very mild. Very mild. Hi, Mike. Hi, Gibby. This is Lana Hyatt from Ohio in the good old C-Best. You didn't even know my voice.

I'm a little bit sick. But I've totally enjoyed all of your podcasts. I've pretty much binge-watched them the past two weeks. I'm on episode 53 now. It's great to see the connection that you guys have, and I can't wait to listen to all the rest. Have a good one, guys. And keep your own sign second. Got a little Columbus in the house.

Yeah, that's awesome. Lon is a fairly new Patreon supporter. Oh, yeah? So we haven't come up on her name yet, but I was trying to figure out how to say it, and now she's giving it away. She did. She gave it away. However, I won't remember it by them because I probably won't either. I've already probably forgotten.

already have probably forgotten. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Jamie. Old friend from CrimeCon in Grand Rapids. Listen, I was listening to the James Rupert, recent version, and it was fantastic because, Gibby, this is for you. He had started talking about that Bernie movie with Jack Black,

and I just started laughing because my husband loves that movie, and he walks around the house like Jack Black all the time, singing, this is more story. This is my story. Marshall, he says it with both arms, very, you know, very grandiose. But anyway, it just made me laugh when you brought up that movie because my husband does it all the time. So he has a wonderful life, of course, with me.

Anyway, I hope you guys are wonderful. Have a great week. Thank you. Bye. Awesome. Old friend from CrimeCon. Yeah. I wonder if they both break out in, like, show tunes and sing to each other.

I don't know, but what a timely voicemail. Perfect. That we just happened to be doing this one. Worked out well. Hey, what's up fellas? This is John from Chicago, Illinois. I'm an EMT here, and I got to say, the podcast really helps me unwind after a day of seeing crazy stuff for hours and sometimes a day straight. It's actually pretty funny. I got to turn on to you guys by a teacher in college, and our assignment was to listen to that episode of true crime all the time and then write a report on it and what we thought about it. So just, just see. So you know how deep your influence is getting here in Chicago. But anyway, I don't have any case recommendations to you guys bring up stuff that I didn't even know existed and I love it. Just wanted to say, keep up to great work.

I'm sorry, but I got to say it. Go team give me. Anyway, guys, once again, keep up the great work. Thanks for everything that you do to keep your own time ticking. I like the fact that people have to say, I'm sorry to have to say it. That hurts. That means something. It hurts a little bit for some reason.

You shouldn't be saying it. Hey. You're sorry to have to say. All I can say to all my high school teachers. Yeah. Is, hey, I made it. I am teaching in college. Well, you know, speaking of that, it's amazing how many emails I get from professors.

I think I've, I've talked about this before. Sure. There's a couple of, you know, universities in New York, I know, that are using our, that are signing out episodes of our podcast. of our podcast. It's cool. It is very cool. Can I get an honorary honorary diploma from the university of one of these schools? The university of one of these schools. You know what? I'll make you a diploma and it will say the university of one of these schools. But I think a prerequisite for you to receive an honorary degree should be that you have to be able to pronounce and or spell

The word honorary? I got that down. I'm good. You crack me out. Hold on. Let me Google it. All right. Now let's go.

I'm just joking. All right. So love the voicemails. And that is really cool. We had mailbag. Did we? Let's talk about it. We only got one package, but it was a hell of a package.

I'll tell you that. That's what she said. Rhonda all red. She sent in a Harley chip for me. Yeah. She sent in some oatmeal cream pies, little Debbie's. Little Debbie's. You know, we love those.

Did you open them up? I haven't. And then she sent something gives that nobody's ever sent. No. She sent you a pillow. Yes, she did. Like a throw pillow. Yeah, she did.

There is not a pillow on earth like this. This is one of a kind. It has a cowboy scene on it. It does. And on both sides. And it says Rex West. It does. I don't know how she made it, but it's cool.

Rex says, thank you. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Rhonda. I appreciate that. I know Rhonda is a Patreon supporter, a big supporter of the show. All right.

That's it. You got anything else, Rex? I'm going to grab my pillow and lay my head down. As we do the next episode. Yeah. You'll be in and out. I'll be in and out. Yeah.

All right. I could have used that pillow. I don't think anybody will know. I will say. Yeah. You're worried about it. That hurts, man. That hurts.

I will. Hey, I hate to say this. I'm going to start saying, I'm going to start leading off with that. We had leaning off with that. Now, if I would have had that pellel last year, it would have been really good because I could have used it to softing my ass sitting on that wood slated. Wood slated. Slated.

Slotted. Slotted. Slotted. Slotted. Slotted. Slotted. Slotted. Slotted.

Slotted. Slotted. Slotted. Hey, the splinters I had to pick out of my ass. Everybody seen the pictures. Everybody's seen the pictures. They want to see the real pictures. Talk to me.

That doesn't sound good at all. I don't think that's going to come out. way that you, uh, and I don't think you're going to edit it in a good fashion either. Well, how am I going to edit it to make it sound better? You'd have to wipe out the whole mailbag section just to make it okay. All right, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.