True Crime All The Time - Blake Leibel

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Blake Leibel was an aspiring director and the son of two Canadian multimillionaires. He and his brother were both given a house and a large monthly allowance. In May 2016, Blake was arrested for murdering his girlfriend, Iana Kasian, who had just given birth to their daughter. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss killer Blake Leibel. Prosecutors argued that the murder was inspired by Blake’s 2010 graphic novel, which depicted themes of torture and murder similar to the crime scene. It came out at trial that Blake was so self-centered that he resented the baby and felt as though his girlfriend wasn't giving him the attention he deserved.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 358 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? I'm doing good. How about you? Doing very well, man. I had a great week. Got to go down and eat lunch with my daughters at college.

That was a good time. Always good to see the kids. Yeah, they don't come home as much as I would like for them to. Although my youngest is coming home this weekend. I'm really looking forward to it. It's just not me. You buy lunch and dinner for. You buy it for your kids too.

Oh, yeah. But I don't feel bad about that. I'm supposed to take care of my children. Oh. I'm not supposed to take care of a grown-ass man and buy all of his dinner. Just once a week, man. Just once a week. No, I do it because I like to do it.

Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Marsh. Me, Marsh. Corey Thompson. What's going on, Thompson? Jason Workman jumped out at our highest level. man thanks workman lorry oh good old lorry tristan mccarthy well thank you McCarthy charles jule there's the jewel jen jen jane berlin joan man that's a strong berlin it's it's a very

cool name emma's irony well thank you emma's joseph miller what's going on j j jay holiday hey e j becka holiday what's going on back of holidays in the house i know it sounds like derby what's up derby and last but not least emma kale hey kales and then if we go back into the vault This week we selected Sarah Strigoy. Says goy. And I hope I'm saying that correct. I almost want to say stick. Go ahead.

Stry. Okay. I don't even know what that is. No. But I like the way that you, you said it was such passion. And that's the thing about you, man. You commit.

I do. Whether you are right, wrong, Completely wrong. I throw it down. Couldn't be more wrong. Or throw it up, whatever the throw it up,

throw it down. You absolutely commit. Yeah. Hey, uh, right now we have an episode out on true crime all the time unsolved. And we're talking about this young couple in the night in 1990 in Houston. Cheryl Henry and Andy Atkinson who parked in a lover's lane and were murdered.

Yeah, lover lane man. We know you like those places. Are you talking? to me. Yeah. I have never been in a lover's lane in my entire life. I don't even know where one would have been around me. They named it Ferguson Avenue. Okay. Later. What are you talking about? You were there so often. First of all, you gave yourself away because they would never call it Avenue. That would be like a thoroughfare. Oh yeah. This would be a little secret lane. I bet Ferguson Lane. Ferguson Lane. If you said that, maybe people would have believed you. Yeah.

But it is a very interesting case. Make sure you check that up. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm ready. We're talking about Blake Liebel. Blake Leibel was an aspiring director and the son of two Canadian multi-millionaires. In May 2016, Blake was arrested for murdering his girlfriend, Yanna Cassian, who had just given birth to their daughter.

Prosecutors argued that the murder was inspired. by Blake's 2010 graphic novel, which depicted themes of torture and murder similar to the crime scene. So, you know, we kind of know what we're getting into here. We are going to have a pretty horrific murder. Yes. Which will have to talk about the details of, but it's also, you know, this thought put forth by prosecutors that, hey, this guy wrote this graphic novel and then kind of carried it out. Like foreshadowing? Yeah, kind of carried out what he had written down years later. Blake Leibel was born on May 8th, 1981. He is the son of Lorne and Eleanor Leibel. Lorne competed as a sailor for Canada's 1976 Olympic team. He was the first Canadian to fail an

Olympic drug test after he tested positive for a banned stimulus. I didn't realize sellers. Take steroids, but I guess maybe you need to. Well, it didn't say steroids. It said stimulant. Oh, a stimulant. Yeah, which to me is more like maybe a speed and upper. To stay awake. Yeah.

I was thinking something like that. Keep working those ropes. Yeah. But, you know, what a strange kind of footnote to have beside your name, right? The first Canadian to fail an Olympic drug test. You don't want to be the first. Why not? Sometimes the first is great.

If it's a good thing. If it's a good thing. Yeah. So, you know, you have to add that little caveat onto it. You're just like, you don't want to be the first. Well, if you're not first, you're last, we know. I'd be like, I want to be the first trillionaire. How is that a bad thing?

It's not. Born is also a well-known real estate developer in the Toronto area. According to the National Post, Lauren Libel profited off the suburban building boom of the 1980s and 90s outside of Toronto. That was a pretty big boom. It was. He owns a company called Canada Homes, which at one point was the largest home builder in the country.

Wow. So, I mean, we're talking about multi-millionaires here. It may be a lot more multi-than what you think of, right? Multi, I think, okay, somebody's worth two, three, four million. But multi-millioners.

can really be 800 million. It could be. Yeah. I'm just going to say this. There's a lot of money in building homes. There is. I used to build homes. Even as a small builder.

Yeah. Right? Which I think is more along the lines of the experience you had. Yeah. Now think about being the largest home builder in a country. Oh yeah. Big time. That has to be.

Yeah. You know, in the realm of making a ton of money. I just built the houses. is in the wrong time. Yeah. 2006, 7. Oh, what's this economy doing? Well, who could have known that the bubble was going to burst and everything was going to

go south? Yeah. Lorne dealt with controversies in his personal life. For example, a former lover planned to publish a tell all memoir about him. Excerpts were published online that made outlandish claims of depravity, according to the National Post. and Lauren sued this woman for defamation. Okay.

There's a lot of things that you don't really want to come out about you. Tell all memoirs usually are not great. No. Just the kind of term tell all kind of means something bad is going to come out about you. But when it involves like your proclivities in the bedroom. Yes. okay it can get kind of embarrassing might be some things you don't want people to know now one thing i know is that a tell all memoir about you would be an instant national best seller hell i think

Oprah would probably you know put it in her um what is it give it her seal of approval oh yeah i don't know if she still does that or not but her favorites it would be salacious it would be intriguing She'd probably write on the inside of the cover. What do they call that? An inscription? Is that what people do when they want to tell the public this is a good book? Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, on the jacket.

She'd write something on the back of the jacket and saying, Okay. Make sure you pick this up. For a minute there, I thought you thought Oprah was going to personally inscribe every copy of this tell-all memoir about you. That'd be a good way to get some of them. First of all, Oprah doesn't even know you. How do you know? She might listen to this.

I know. She does not. She might. Blake's maternal grandfather, Paul Chetell, founded a plastic sheeting company in the 50s that grew into a multi-million dollar company called Polytarp Products Limited. Eleanor's father died in the late 90s and left her a significant inheritance. So, you know,

it wasn't as though these two people got together and then, you know, made their fortune. She brought a fortune with her into the marriage. He had a ton of money. So they both had their own money. Blake and his older brother Cody grew up on a 300-acre estate in the wealthy Forest Hill neighborhood of Toronto. 300 acres. I'd like to have 300 acres. I would like to have 300 acres as well. Well, I'd like to have 300 quality. I was going to say, I don't even think I could afford 300 unquality acres. Is that a word? Unquality?

Wow. I don't think that is. Did you get that from my dictionary? Yeah, I think that was a gibbism right there. But, you know, I think it just points to the fact of, you know, how much money they really had. Lorne and Eleanor later separated and chose to split up the boys. Cody lived with his father and Blake lived with his mother. Because of this, Blake had a strained relationship with his father.

And I always think that. situation would be very tough. Divorce is tough just by itself. Of course. But then to split up siblings and to have one live with the mother and the other live with the father, that would be a very tough situation. According to Scott Johnson, a 48 hours correspondent and writer for the Hollywood reporter, Blake felt jealous of the attention. Cody received from their death. And doesn't that seem only natural. The person living with the parent is going to receive more attention. Yeah. There's no way around that. No, but it's going to hurt. It absolutely would hurt. As young adults, both Blake and Cody moved to California. Cody moved first and started working

in real estate. He also owned a now defunct record label. Blake moved to Hollywood in 2004, hoping to start a career in the film industry. Each son was given a house. in California and an allowance. Blake received an allowance of about $18,000 a month for roughly seven years, according to CBS. So, hey, guys move to California. You each get a house. Now I feel like Oprah, you get a house, you get a house. And then $18,000 a month.

That's incredible. That is a boatload of money. I mean, I get it. for doing nothing. They have a lot of money, but that, that's a lot. When I think about, you know, the allowance that I give my kids, it's, you know, minuscule and it's for doing, you know, their assigned chores and all that. I mean, you got a house that has no mortgage.

And it looks, I mean, what, around $250,000 a year for at least seven years? If you can't make it and if that's not a jumpstart on your life, then. you're just not going to make it. Yeah. Because very few people get something, you know, along the lines of that magnitude as a starter. Yeah. But also kind of drains the eye of the tiger. Well, that's what I was thinking as well, right?

There is a real possibility when all of that is just given to you that you don't have the hunger. Right. And so there's not that drive to make it. because, hey, I got a free house. I got $18,000 a month. I don't have to push it. That's right. I don't have to hustle.

I can sleep in today. The National Post reported that Blake started to work with a crew of what was called Toronto exile on comics and movies. They were mostly the children of wealthy Canadians who wanted to start their careers in Hollywood. Blake often commissioned various illustrators and writers to bring his ideas to life. I mean, I will say Canada has and has had a lot of funny actors come to Hollywood. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I have no idea what it has to do with what we're talking about right this second. But, you know, back in the day, I used to watch like SCTV. Oh, yeah.

So, you know, you're talking about Eugene Levy and John Candy and those other hosers. The hosers and just really, really funny people. Blake and his partners founded a publishing house which published Blake's science fiction series United Free World. According to reporter Scott Johnson, some people thought Blake was sort of playing with Daddy's money. And you could see why people would get that idea. Of course. You know, what are you doing? Well, I'm doing graphic novels and comics and, and maybe that's great. Or maybe you're just, you know, throwing dad's money away and, you know, Because you know there's really no consequences.

There's still going to be money coming every month. Yeah. But also people can judge individuals that come from very wealthy families just because Too harshly? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Just because you come from money doesn't mean you're lazy.

It doesn't mean you can't make it on your own. And maybe you get a little bit of a head start, more of a head start than most people. But maybe you do all the work yourself and you buy. your butt and that happens as well. And, you know, maybe they could argue that it's actually harder for them in a sense because everybody feels like everything's given to them. So they have to go beyond that to prove themselves. Yeah.

Well, and is there also something where you're trying to live up to what your parents have built? That's tough to do sometimes. If they're multimillionaires, how are you going to build something to rival what they've done? Yeah. And if you don't, do you feel like you're a. failure in their eyes. In 2006, Blake met a model named Amanda Braun. They dated for about five years before they got married.

In 2008, Blake worked on an animated series based on the 1987 movie Space Balls. I love that movie. I love that movie too. You know, we talked about it on Patreon. I love dumb movies. Movies I don't have to really think about. And Spaceball is one of those. It also stars some SCTV.

alum. It does. John Candy's in it. Rick Moranis is in it. That same year he wrote and directed a movie titled Bald, which features a college student who tries to raise money for hair transplant surgery by creating an erotic website featuring female students. Bald went straight to DVD in 2009. Well, back then, that's a bad thing. Today, I think a lot of things just go right to DVD or streaming. Streaming, yeah. And they're not always bad. But you're right. Back in the day, if something went straight to DVD, it was deemed... Yeah, not good.

Not good. In 2010, Blake co-authored a graphic novel titled Syndrome, which he hoped to turn into a TV show one day. The novel is about a doctor who wants to test the theory that he can isolate the root of evil in the human brain. The doctor experiments on a serial killer who is facing execution. the cover depicts a baby doll with the top of its head removed showing a brain. The book features violent images of a headless woman in a scene where the serial killer murders two people by hanging them up by their ankles and cutting their throats. Okay, graphic.

Yeah, it's pretty rough, sounds like, but it's also supposed to be fiction. The co-author said in their 2010 interviews that Blake gave them a loose concept for the novel, but they did the actual writing. So, you know, kind of throwing a little bit more fuel on the fire that maybe he's not working as hard or he's not doing as much of it as he might be portraying. He's kind of acting like he wrote this. Yeah. Now, these people are saying he had the idea for it, but they did the right.

Yeah, they did all the writing. One friend told the National Post that Blake spent a lot of money on projects that sometimes went nowhere. Another collaborator said that Blake often missed meetings and was obsessed with themes of violence and brutality. Now, there are a lot of people who spend money on projects that ultimately don't go anywhere. And when you think about some of the most famous people in the world, they have probably failed more times than they have succeeded. They get back up again. And they've learned from those failures and they keep going. Blake spent a few years working with an illustrator to adapt a draft of a screenplay into another

graphic novel, but the project was never completed. Blake and Amanda Braun got married in March 2011. Their son was born a month later. Blake's mother passed away from brain cancer that year. Her estate was worth about $12 million. Blake received less than half of her estate. His portion consisted of his mother's $5.5 million. home in Toronto and other assets.

It's still a good chunk of change. That's a lot of money. According to family friends, Eleanor intended to leave the majority of her estate to Blake, but a significant portion went too long. Court documents indicated that his parents were separated for 30 years, but never divorced. His friends told the National Post that Blake believed his father changed the will at the last minute. So we said it earlier, right?

There was already animosity between Blake and his father. This was not going to help the situation. If Blake felt as though he was cheated out of what, six or seven million dollars. Yeah. And he felt that his dad changed the will at the last minute to make that happen. That's only going to exacerbate the problem. Yeah.

It's going to definitely push him in the wrong direction. One of Blake's friends told the National Post that he changed after his mother died saying his mom was the person he was closest to. And that just really unhinged him. She was really an anchor for him. I think a mom is an anchor for a lot of people. Absolutely. Often the glue, right, that holds the family together.

You know, when my mom was alive, if anything was going wrong, I needed to have a sounding board. it was always her. Yeah. Moms are very caring in that way. I mean, dads can be too. Yeah, of course, yeah.

But my mom always had that, you know. Way about her. My dad was a little more blunt. Yes. Good, but blunt. My mom was a little bit more,

you know, soft about it. And, you know, some people reverse those roles, but I think by and large, that's probably how it normally is, especially with people of that generation.

Yeah. Of course, yeah. You know, men were always kind of very blunt. It seemed my grandfathers were just, this is how it is. And if you don't like it, you can get to heck out, you know, that type of thing. Just, just cut and dry. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of, oh, it'll be okay. No, it's like rub some dirt on it, get back in there.

In 2013, Blake contested his mother's will. He claimed that he had almost no income and that he relied on his father to pay his credit card bills. his father told the court that he and Blake's mother supported him with monthly allowances. Blake lost his suit and the law firm later claimed he owed them $400,000 in unpaid feet. That's a big chunk of change. Well, it is and it's a big chance to take, right? You're already saying that you're broke. You don't have that much money, but you're going to spend $400,000 to go after the

what could be six or seven million. Right. So you're taking a big chance and he lost. In July 2015, Blake filed for divorce from Amanda Braun. Their second son was born in August of that year. Blake's lawyer, Ronald Richards, said he was still close to his son and wanted to settle the divorce amicably. However, Amanda's lawyer said she struggled to get in contact with Blake. Blake's friend recalled that around the time he left Amanda, he became increasingly paranoid and cut off his closest friends. It's going to be tough to get a hold of somebody when they do that. Well, and it's never a good sign. When people stop responding to or reaching out to their closest friend, that normally is not a good sign. It means something is going on in their life.

And it's probably a time when they need those people the most. Later that year, Blake started dating Yanna Cassian, a 30-year-old Ukrainian immigrant, Yanna was born in Estonian and moved to Ukraine when she was a child. Yanna graduated from law school and prosecuted tax crimes. She spoke both English and Russian, and her dream was to move to the U.S. to work as an interpreter. You're good at speaking in Russian? Absolutely not.

Oh, absolutely not. But I'm always amazed when we do these stories, whether they're set in another country or it's about someone that comes from another country, just how many different languages people speak, you know, outside of the U.S. Yeah. I mean, I can speak Estonia, but my Russians not. If that was a actual language. If that was a language.

And your Russian accent is even worse than your actual Russian. According to the Hollywood reporter, some people allege that. that Yanna worked as an escort in Los Angeles, but a family attorney said she was studying to be a translator. Blake told Yanna that he was in the process of getting divorced. She quickly moved in with him in a condo in West Hollywood and became pregnant months into the relationship. She was happy because she had always wanted to be a mother. Well, she probably felt like she was starting to live the American dream. And maybe she'd met this great guy. He had some money. because it was said that Blake often took her on trips or out to expensive dinners,

even bought her a luxury car. He kept telling her that he was finalizing the divorce. Blake and Yanna's daughter, Diana, was born on May 3rd. Yanna's mother, Olga, flew out to Los Angeles. To meet Blake for the first time and helped Yanna with the baby. She noticed that they both seemed happy about being parents at first, but things quickly change. And I think very normal, right, for a mom to fly in when a baby's born.

Of course. Yeah, they want to be part of that. There's a lot of help that is needed. And who better to provide that help than the person that raised you. That's right. And has already been through it all before. Olga noticed that their relationship wasn't as perfect as it seems. And man, how many times have we heard that?

Some parents are pretty intuitive. Well, and she's also probably inside the home a lot, right? Getting to see maybe the interactions that people outside the home wouldn't see. Right. And so she's really probably picking up the truth. Blake was uninterested in the baby. He demanded sex from Yanna and threatened to leave her for another woman. Yanna was recovering from a C-section at this time.

He's not really sounding like too good of a guy. No. I mean, you know, any guy whose wife has had a baby knows that there is a period of time where there's not going to be rumpus room activity. Oh, there will not be. That's just how it goes, man. Especially if a C-section was involved. Yeah.

It's just not going to happen. So here's this guy demanding sex from his wife. who had just given birth be a C-section. And he's not even interested in the baby. How can you not be interested in your baby? Yanna wanted to repair her relationship with Blake. So she sent her newborn daughter to live in an apartment with her mother a few miles away. Olga tried to convince Yanna to move in with her full time.

See, I think that's going the wrong way, right? You shouldn't have to take your baby out of your house to try to save your marriage. Yeah. I mean, you're a family. It should be, hey, us three need to work on this together. But if anything, does that give you some insight on, you know, the state of it and her desperation? Yeah, that's true. She's, she's really trying to save this thing. And maybe that was the last ditch effort. But then you also have her mom trying to convince her to move in with her. Well, why is she doing that? it's because she's seeing that this is not a good guy. You shouldn't even be with him.

But every time Yanna would come stay with her, she always ended up going back to Blake. Blake was also plagued by intense worries about his brother Cody. He believed Cody had accumulated large gambling debts and that someone in his poker circuit wanted to harm his family. So apparently this Cody was an amateur gambler

who played poker in an under underground high stakes circuit founded by Los Angeles real estate agent Molly Bloom. And I don't know if you've seen this movie Gibbs, but the criminal case against Bloom inspired the movie Molly's game. It was a good, good movie. I actually haven't seen it. It pops up all the time. It's really good.

I'll have to watch it. It's also kind of gives me a rounders feel, you know, high stakes games, kind of underground. It's worth a watch. Which one? I just talked about two different movies. Both are Rounders is really, there's Rounders the one with Matt Damon, right? Yeah.

Yeah, that's really good. And I know you were in it too. You kept cracking these Oreo cookies and then you would smell them and then you would eat one half and then the other. One of Cody's friends told the Hollywood reporter that he was a whale, which is a wealthy but unskilled player whom the other players target during the game. And you hear that term a lot in movies like Ocean's 11 or anything that has to do with poker,

rounders or whatever. People are always looking for a whale because they've got the money, but not the poker skills to beat you. Yeah. And they don't know when to quit. They keep playing thinking they're going to. And they can. Yeah. Because they have the money. Exactly. It was reported that Blake attended a few poker games, but not as often as his brother. The poker games were hosted in mansions or hotels in Beverly Hills or Hollywood and famous movie stars, directors and business people attended. An anonymous attendee told the Hollywood reporter that he saw over $2 million in cash on the table during one game.

I believe that, though. Well, you know, some of these people have copious amounts of money, like more money than they can spend. And if you're looking for a rush, you're not going to get it if you're that type of person playing $50, you know, uh, limit, hold. them. $50 is what you drop as you're trying to get the rest of your money together. Yeah. And you just walk on and you leave it. So they've got to really up the stakes, I think, to get the blood pumping. That's one way to get it pumping. Some members of Russian organized crime

groups got involved in the games, which made Blake worried for his brother's safety. Again, just a little more kind of rounders type vibe. In April 2013, Federal prosecutors announced charges against more than two dozen people who were involved with the games. The Russian organized crime network was indicted for racketeering, extortion, and money laundering around $100 million later that year. That's a lot of money for underground poker. It is all untaxable. Well, yes. So they were laundering money.

I'm sure the money was coming from places other than the poker games. Is that what they were using to launder it? Potentially. And that could make a lot of sense because other people were bringing in clean money. You mix it all together. In June 2013, a man named Jan Harold, Porto Carrero and 18 others were indicted for operating a violent sports betting business. Cody placed a lien on his house to ensure that

Porto Carrero would stay out of jail. Blake was concerned about this and texted his fears to a close friend. So, you know, it's kind of strange, right? You got these two brothers. They both have money given to them by their parents. Blake's into all kinds of stuff, writing, ventures that never seemed to go anywhere. Cody's really into what seemed like gambling and maybe some things that weren't on the up and up. Yeah, a little risky. Well, definitely risky if you're involved in any way with

Russian organized crime. Yeah, not good. Blake's personal life was troubled because he was involved with another woman while he was with Yan. Blake was seeing a woman named Constance Bucca Fury, a storyboard artist he met several years earlier. And I cannot believe you didn't say that last name and add some type of an Italian nuance. to it. I was he going to say the name, but I knew that if I said the name, that a different word might come out of my mouth. Oh, something that you didn't want to come out. Yes. I got you. All right. I was just a little disappointed. And I think listeners are going to be as well. It would have been something like where the, you know, maybe the F and B would have switched up somehow.

Fooka Bury. That wouldn't have come out bad either. Constance told the Hollywood reporter that Blake was obsessed with her and loved her. In late 2015, he purchased the house in West Hollywood and allowed her to move in. According to one source, he referred to her as his fiancee and his wife. Oh, so a little bit more serious with her. While at the same time, still technically with Yanna. Right. Kind of adding on to the not a great guy image, right?

But it's got to be a little strange too. Like, this is my fiance. And then the next day, this is. my wife. Well, I don't know if it was the next day to the same person. Well, you know what I mean, though. Yeah, I do. They split up after six weeks, but she continued living in the house. In early 2016, Constance started talking to Blake's ex-wife Amanda about his relationship with Yanna, both women harbored and intense dislike of her. I feel like maybe the dislike should have been towards the one common thing, all three of them had, which was Blake. Yeah. Well,

But you could see, right, if he left Amanda to be with Yanna in any way, you could see why she might harbor some ill will towards her. Constance maybe wants to be with him, but he won't leave Yanna. So I'm sure it all stem from stuff like that. On May 20th, 2016, Blake was arrested on suspicion of sexual assault. He spent 15 hours in jail before he posted his 100,000. bail, he was never formally charged. Constance said the assault occurred when she and Blake first started dating. She claimed that he assaulted her multiple times and infected her with an STI. So these charges came much later after they broke up, it sounds like.

Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me. Amanda Braun later ended her friendship with Constance because she thought she was dangerous and threatening. She obtained a temporary restraining order. against her and said that Constance admitted she made up the rape allegation. All right. So now Constance, based on Amanda, doesn't sound like she's a great person as well. Yeah.

Yeah. It was said that Yanna bailed Blake out and of course learned that he was cheating. She then decided to go stay at her mother's apartment. On May 23rd, 2016, Yanna and Olga went shopping. Blake texted Yanna later that day. Olga told 48 hours via a translator, upon receiving those texts, she would change like a chameleon.

Her facial expression changed. After those texts, she would say, I'm going to him. Yanna left her mother and the baby to go see Blake. Olga didn't hear from her daughter again. A family friend told the National Post that Blake apologized to Yanna and said

he couldn't live without her. She agreed to meet with him. So I don't know if that was the whole series of text, but it does sound as though, you know, he was saying maybe a lot of the things that she wanted to hear. Right. Because let's not forget, she really wanted this relationship to work.

She did. She tried hard to keep it together. And now maybe she's getting the sense that it can be safe. Yeah, here's an opportunity. I just got to go to him. And he's sorry. he's going to change, you know, all these different things. By the afternoon of May 24th, Olga had called multiple times and received no response.

She had a feeling that she had to go check on Yanna, but the baby was asleep. So she called the police instead. She had to stay on hold until they could find someone who could speak Russian. She called the police back multiple times. Always tough, right? When you're in a, what you believe is kind of like a dire situation. Yeah. But you don't speak the language.

That would be like us in another country having an emergency and not finding someone who spoke English. Well, you. Yeah. I mean, you'd be fine because you speak so many different languages. The next morning, Olga called a taxi and went to the condo with a friend to see what was going on. Olga told 48 hours that she walked across the street from the condo building to look at the

couple's third floor patio. She saw a man standing in the window. of the condo, she recognized him as Blake. She called out to him, but he didn't react. A resident opened the gate for her. So she ran to the front door. No one answered. So she called the police again.

She tried to get the responding officers to break down the door, but they said they did not have a right to enter because there were no signs that someone was in distress. The police did leave a voicemail with Blake, but he didn't respond. Officers waited outside for a few hours and left. And I get that. I think they were in a tough spot. Okay, you have a mother who's worried about her daughter, but there's really nothing visible or ascertainable to them that would warrant a reason to go in. Yeah. Give them the probable cause to even go in. At 1 a.m., Los Angeles time, someone called Yanna's sister using Yanna's phone. Her sister missed the call and no one answered when she tried to call back

later. Olga went back to the condo on May 26th, and she also called the police again. This time, they agreed to enter the condo. The police obtained a key from the realtor, but when they tried to go inside, they encountered what was referred to as hotel style locks. So they ended up having to break the door down. Yeah, you remember those type of security locks, you know, where you throw that little metal thing. And if you open the door, like the It would catch it. Yeah. I wasn't exactly sure what was meant by hotel style locks, but that does make a lot of sense because I use those still today. Yeah, I know for my personal safety. I know. It's usually because you're in the room next to me and I don't know what's going to happen. It really bugs me that you use, though, especially on the bathroom door when I'm trying to get in there. The hallway door leading to the bedrooms was locked and barricaded. So they had to take that door off the hinges. The police, found blood on the headboard and walls in the gas bedroom, but no one was in there.

The primary bedroom door was barricaded with a mattress. So I mean, you can only imagine what they're thinking at this point. Something bad has happened. For sure, yeah. There's blood, doors are barricaded. They've had to break down or take multiple doors off the,

of their hinges. What are we going to find here when we finally get through? Blake was inside the room. but he told the police he wasn't coming out. He also said Yanna wasn't home. Blake called a friend who eventually convinced him to come out. The police found Yanna's body on the bed. They saw a large blood stain on the wall.

Yanna's body had been cleaned and was covered by a blanket. Now, we're about ready to get into the extent of Yanna's injuries. But just the mere fact alone, right? Blake's in there. The body's found in there. Not looking real good for him. Not looking good at all. And I mentioned that the body was covered by a blanket.

The blanket hid the extent of her injury. Gannis scalp had been removed, as well as a portion of the right side of her face, including her right ear. Oh, I feel nauseated. Her body was unusually pale. Gibbs, pieces of flesh were found in the bedroom and clumps of Yanna's dark hair were found on a razor in the bathroom.

Blake had scratches and bruises on his face and bite marks on his arm, which indicated Yanna fought him inside a pair of his pants. Investigators found his passport and $4,000 cash, which suggested he was planning to flee the country. So this is a very brutal murder. There were a lot of details, even more details. we probably could have given about, you know, what happened. But I think what we did talk about paints the picture well enough.

This was torturous. It was, you know, serial killer movie stuff. Very violent. But we talked about, you know, him not looking good. The scratches, the bruises, her fighting back and biting him. And, you know, the fact that he had his passport and this money, not too hard to figure out. But why do this if you just text her and said, hey, I want to work things out? Well, I can only imagine that that was a ruse.

Sure. You know, devised to get her to come to him. Blake denied having anything to do with Yanna's murder. But he gave no explanation as to who could have killed her. He told detectives, science is going to tell you who did this. So I don't mean to laugh, but to me it is somewhat comical that you've buried You've been eradicated yourself in this room. There's blood everywhere.

This woman has been mutilated, viciously murdered. You have signs all over your body that you were involved. She fought you. But you're just going to say, hey, I don't know what happened. But I can tell you what. It wasn't me. How does a person do that? Because they have nothing to lose?

Well, I think so. I think that's why he says that. Because what's the alternative? You come out and say, yeah, I did it. And also think in his life, that probably worked for him a lot. Just to say, it wasn't me. And people didn't challenge him. This is different this time.

Yeah, either that or he thought maybe his wealth, his dad's wealth was going to come to the rescue. So deny, deny, deny. And, you know, I'll get me a great attorney and we'll beat this. Yeah, I'm untouchable. The condo had a trash shoot that led to a dumpster. inside this dumpster investigators found Yanna's ear and pieces of her scalp. In total, there were 11 trash bags full of evidence. Investigators found a bed skirt with a bloody handprint on it.

The handprint had part of the pinky finger missing. And Blake was missing part of his right pinky finger. Yeah, but it wasn't him. He wasn't there. He didn't do this according to him. Now, sources don't come out and directly state this, but it seems to me from everything that I read that this wasn't an injury that he received during the murder. Like this, this had already happened. But here again, you have a bloody handprint and the bloody handprint just happens to have part of the pinky finger missing.

And Blake has part of his pinky finger missing. Kind of suspicious. Well, you know, it's kind of like the fugitive, right? The one armed man did it. In this case, the man with the missing part of his pinky finger missing did it. How many people are running around the area with that exact part of their pinky finger missing? Oh, and also happened to be in the room with the victim. There you go. Barricaded. But, you know, just think about that as an investigator. You know, what they found in the room, pieces of her flesh, you know, her scalp was removed. Then they go down to this dumpster, you know, they find her ear, more pieces of her scalp.

This is nasty, nasty stuff to do to someone who, you know, you claimed to love with whom you had a baby. Yeah. She's a mother of your child. Investigators thought the lack of visible blood was. strange. As we mentioned, there were some blood stains, but not as much as to be expected, considering the extent of Yanna's injuries. But when they used a chemical called Blue Star, they saw that the bedroom was actually covered in blood, as well as the bathroom, guest bedroom, and many other parts of the condo. The killer tried to cover up the crime scene by cleaning

the floors, walls, and getting rid of bedding. And if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. People think that they can clean up these very large amounts of blood. And it just doesn't work. It's extremely hard. You know, you're just, you're not going to get out a squeegee and one of those magic erasers. No. And get up all this blood. It's just not going to happen. I mean, you can try to bleach. But at the end of the day, it's not going to clean. it up like you think it is. Well, and these chemicals they have are so advanced. They just light up a room. Yanna's cause of death was determined to be exanguination. She was badly beaten. And the blood literally drained from her body. It was estimated that Yanna was killed sometime between May 23rd and May 26.

And then it took somewhere between six and eight hours for her to die. Wow. I mean, that's just torture. Well, we talked about this being, you know, his love, the mother of his child, and these injuries were just absolutely brutal. But then to think that he would let her bleed out and suffer over a period of six to eight hours, that just adds a completely different element to the whole thing. It was already brutal. Extremely brutal. Extremely brutal. This is just inhuman. Coroner Jim Rye found that Yanna had less than a teaspoon of blood left in her entire body. A teaspoon.

Think about how much that really is. Not much at all. I mean, that's like a beginning of a bloody nose. Yeah. And think about how much blood is actually in the human body. Most of the blood loss occurred because her scalp was removed. And I have heard that some of these cuts like to the head can bleed like very, very severely. But this wasn't a cut, right?

This was removing her scalp. Rye would later testify per the Hollywood reporter. I have never seen this before. I doubt if any forensic pathologist in this country or abroad has ever seen this outside of perhaps war time. It says a lot. Yeah, it says a lot when you have, you know, let's say a seasoned corner, say, I've never seen that in all my years. But then to go on and say, I don't know if anybody has ever seen this in this country or any other outside of like some type of wartime atrocity. Yeah. It just shows you the magnitude of how heinous this murder really was.

Or how sick he was. Or how sick he was over. In his deposition, he said the only similar injuries he had seen were caused by dog attacks and that Yanna was likely alive for most of the torture. And again, what happened to her was just absolutely awful. But this notion that she was alive during most of it for six to eight hours, it's heartbreaking. to think about how much pain and suffering she actually went through. You have to wonder, why would he want to put her through all that?

Well, I'm sure we'll talk about motives here, you know, as we move forward. But I think what you're getting at and don't let me put words in your mouth is that, you know, if you wanted someone to eliminate, there are ways to do that that are very quick and easy. It doesn't make it right. But this wasn't that. This was intentional. infliction of pain. This was torture that lasted six to eight hours.

Yeah, that you hate her so much that you wanted to see her suffer. I don't know. I have a problem with how disturbed this is. When I think you said the word, hate, anger, hatred, it's kind of what pops into my head first. Why else would you do something like this to someone, unless you hated them so much that you wanted to see them suffer. CBS spoke to neighbors who said they heard screaming, but they thought it was just the TV. It's possible that one woman saw Yanna around 140 a.m. On May 26th,

she left her apartment to walk her dog and saw a couple fighting. The woman was young, dark-haired, and had an Eastern European accent. Her partner was yelling at her as she walked away. He called out, baby come back here and it seemed like the woman wanted to get away from him. So speaking of motive, detectives struggled to figure it out. There was no solid evidence that Blake's brother Cody had large gambling debts,

which kind of discredited one theory that was that someone targeted Yanna for revenge. Blake talked to Sergeant Rob Martindale who tried to get a confession out of him. Blake said, women don't like me and alluded that women only liked him because of his money. Well, it did kind of sound like he was a major asshole. It sure did. So now were women drawn to him because of his lifestyle and his money? That's possible.

Well, clearly, that's probably what drove some of the women to him. But it seems like once they got to know him, right? At some point, it doesn't matter how much money you have. Yeah. if you're a major a hole, people aren't sticking around. They're out of there. But I think Yanna liked him and wanted to see if she could make the marriage work. Yeah, I think she definitely liked him at first.

And then once they got married, there are many people who want to stay married, right? You take a vow. And some people, they don't want to get divorced. They want to try to make a marriage work. Well, then they had a baby. And maybe there's even a little bit more incentive for her to try to make this thing work. But at a certain point, did she figure out that this wasn't worth it, that she didn't want to be with him? And was that the point where, you know, she tried to leave and he murdered her?

On May 30th, 2016, Blake pleaded not guilty to murder, torture, mayhem, and aggravated. Mayhem. Mayhem. That's a lot of mayhem. You don't hear that often. His attorney expressed doubt about his mental competency. A judge denied his bail. And he referred the case to the mental health courthouse in Los Angeles.

So, you know, I mentioned kind of some parallels to some movie. Oceans 11, rounders. That was due to the poker aspect. Right. I'll tell you right now, I'm getting a mixture of silence. of the lambs an American psycho.

Yeah, good references. I'm picturing in my head this guy as the Christian Bale character. Yeah. And then there's a little bit of the science of the lambs with the mutilation and just the nastiness. Brutality. In June 2016, Blake delayed his mental health evaluation because he refused to leave himself. This was the court's second attempt at assigning a doctor to evaluate.

him, he had refused to go to a hearing the week before. His trial started two years later on June 8th, 2018. According to CBS, Deputy DA Tanas McAyev told the jury that Yanna was killed in a prolonged attack and was alive for the better part of the mutilation and mayhem. And that part, you know, really struck you and I to think that she was alive for that long of a period of time while all this was going on, I can only imagine how it hit home with the jury. I think people can try to put themselves in the position of,

you know, a victim. They can. And if you try to put yourself in the position of Yanna, that is a horrible, horrible thought. I think a defense attorney would have their hands full with this case, knowing that, The prosecutor is going to go into this with that description of the murder and what happened. And the mountain of evidence, the defense is going to have their hands full.

Yeah, absolutely. She said, this case reads like a movie script. It's just more like a horror movie. It's a tale of gruesome and sadistic crime, a tale of a planned and calculated murder, a tortured murder. And I get that, man. You know, this is something that if you saw it in a movie, my wife would cover her eyes. Yeah, some people would just have to turn it off and walk away.

Yeah, it would be too gruesome. And here this is happening in real life. The prosecution compared the murder to Blake's graphic novel syndrome. And we talked about it before, right? The cover of the book showed this doll with its scout missing. The book also depicts two victims hanging upside down to drain their blood and a headless woman on a bloody matter. They presented cell phone data that showed Blake and Yanna were in the apartment before and after her body was found.

Blake also briefly left the apartment hours before the police entered. While Blake was torturing Yanna, he had food delivered several times. Well, you know, he's got to get his car been taken and things like that. How sick is this guy? I mean, to think that, you know, he's working so hard over a period of six to eight hours. to torture this woman to death, that he has to have food delivered to replenish himself. How could you even eat? Oh, yeah, well, that's true.

You know what that tells me? Is that he didn't look on this the same way that we do? No, I think he was fascinated by it. Well, fascinated, yes, but also, to me, more along the lines of, you know, not grossed out, very little emotion. Maybe he enjoyed it. Or, and maybe there was some enjoyment. To the point where he was able to eat food multiple times during it.

Yeah. Chief medical examiner Jonathan Lucas testified that Yanna's heart was still beating while she was being tortured. She had defensive marks on her hands, which indicated she was alive while she was being mutilated. Yanna was not hung up to drain her blood. She had been submerged in white. which led prosecutors to suggest she was put in the bathtub with running water over her injuries

to speed up blood laws. Robert Ryan, a co-author of Syndrome, testified about how they wrote the graphic novel. He said Blake didn't write or illustrate the two key scenes in the book. So that has to be the defense, right? Trying to, you know, combat this notion by prosecutors that he was kind of acting out scenes from this graphic novel. Well, this guy saying he didn't write or illustrate either of those scenes. Yeah, but he read those scenes, right? Oh, he would have read them, sure. And he did have final editorial approval of everything.

And he provided a page and a half outline for the project. That's what this guy said. Ryan confirmed that Blake came up with the idea of victims being drained of their blood. Blake also told them he had researched serial killer. Okay. I'm not putting too much into that because you and I do that for a living. So I don't want to put too much there. But expert witness Michael Habib and anatomy professor testified that it was extraordinary for someone to die of blood loss through a scalp wound, which suggested Yanna's legs were elevated above her head so that gravity would make the blood flow.

He agreed with the prosecution theory that Yanna was put in the tub with her head under the faucet. The running water would prevent blood clotting. Habib said that because the blood was rushing to Yanna's brain, she was likely conscious for a while. He testified, as quoted by the National Post, I would expect she would have been in a good position to watch multiple leaders of blood flow past her face. I mean, if that doesn't paint a picture of nasty graphic picture. Yeah. Of what this woman experienced, man. It tells you how evil this guy is.

I mean, I'm picturing him sitting on the toilet eating his takeout, take out while she's just laying in the tub, struggling in pain, bleeding out. Yeah. We don't know if it went down that way, but it seems as though this was a guy who could have done it. Yeah. The defense called on chief medical examiner Jonathan Lucas, who testified that Yanna had no wounds in her larynx to prevent her from screaming. And there was no evidence to suggest she was conscious in the bathtub.

He did agree that Yanna would have been a lot while her scalp was removed. So I don't know what you make of that. Obviously, they're trying to get at the point of why didn't she scream, why didn't neighbors hear her? Well, I think there's a number of possible scenarios. One could have been a hand over the mouth to prevent screaming. Maybe that's how he got some of the bites on his hands or whatever. Maybe it was a pillow. Maybe it was just something to muffle the screams and the cries.

And I'm not really sure what they're trying to do, the defense with this no wounds to the larynx. Are they trying to say that there was nothing. preventing her from screaming so people all around should have heard her screaming. We did say earlier that there was at least, you know, one neighbor who reported hearing screaming, but they thought it was just the TV. Or are they just trying to say, hey, she was probably unconscious and wasn't really tortured. And her closing argument, Deputy DA Beth Silverman told the jury that Blake used a sharp object,

perhaps a pairing knife or razor found in the bathroom and his hands to remove pieces of Yanna's scout. And, you know, these details are brutal. There's no way around it. But, you know, we have to talk about them. Obviously, the prosecutor had to talk about them in, in great detail to try to hammer home to the jury. How bad it was. Just how bad it was. Right. Just to show that, you know, this guy was a real monster. Silverman said that Yanna died a very slow excruciating painful death, according to the LA Times. And if this thing played out anywhere close to the way that they believed it did, there is no doubt in my mind that this was an absolute nightmare. You know, if she was conscious, if she could feel everything for that period of time, it's hard to fathom.

It is. It's just so disturbing. said about the graphic novel, the defendant basically handed us a blueprint, a case of life imitating art. As she presented the graphic crime scene photos, Silverman told the court, he threw away pieces of his fiance like she was trashed. And to me, it's a smart way to frame it. You're trying to really drive it home to the jury. What a monster that's a monster that's this guy was, is, and what better way to say it than that he literally cut off and threw away pieces of this woman as though she was nothing but trashed to him. That's exactly what he did.

The prosecution revealed the motive for the first time during closing arguments. They said Blake was jealous and angry that Yanna was paying more attention to the baby than him and spending more time at her mother's apartment. Um, so he was torn up about this, but yet he's seeing other women. Doesn't make a lot of sense. It does. Right. Now, could it have been that he was angry and jealous about this and still didn't

really want to have anything to do with the baby? We did mention he pressured her for sex very quickly. He did. After she gave birth to the baby through a C-section. he seems like a guy who was only concerned about his need. Yes. And in Yanna, I think he was looking at someone who should be there for him

in whatever capacity he needed for her to be there. Yeah, I mean, there's guys that have the problem that they're no longer the focal point once the child's born. Yeah, I don't get it, but you're absolutely right. Now, those are very, very selfish, self-centered individuals, but I think that's what this guy was.

Oh, I think so, too. But I think back to the time when my wife and I had our children, when each of them were born, it was like, that's all there is right now, right? Is taking care of these kids. Yeah. Did we find time for each other? Eventually, but in the very beginning, it's all about that newborn. born baby. I sure wasn't thinking about sexual gratification.

You know, days after we got home from the hospital. I, you know, that just blows my mind how someone could be so self-absorbed and just be all about them. Well, maybe he was raised that way. Maybe his mom just made him the center of attention. Yeah. It could have been. We don't know that. That's a speculation. But it's not a bad. point to make. Blake's public defender, Hayden Takasugi, acknowledged the sadness and anger of the jury felt, but encouraged the jury to look at the evidence critically.

Takasugi also emphasized that Blake didn't write or illustrate the violent scenes in syndrome. Yeah, but he read them, edited them. And to me, I think you could take this syndrome out completely. And it wouldn't change anything. No. You know, in the way of his guilt in my eyes, I think that's an interesting part of the story, but I don't think it's the crux of the prosecution's case, right?

That's not their smoking gun. They've got plenty of evidence. But why not throw that in there, too? The defense did not offer an alternative suspect, but tried to cast doubt on the prosecution's case by informing the jury that to draw strings on the, three out of the 11 trash bags found in the dumpster contained an unknown male's DNA, not Blake's. Yeah, I don't know if that's going to convince me of anything different.

So only three out of the 11. Yeah. So you're telling me somebody couldn't have come by, touched them? Yeah, who knows? On June 20th, 2018, Blake Leibel was convicted of first-degree murder, torture, and aggravated mayhem. on June 26th, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

And I don't know with what we've talked about, how this guy could have gotten anything less than that. Like, this is a person who I would never want to see even get the opportunity. No. To walk the street. Never again. Olga Cassian made a statement through an interpreter. she spoke about her granddaughter saying per the LA times,

the life of this little angel began with the fact that her father massacred her mother. And that's true and that's heartbreaking as well. That little girl was never going to grow up with her mother, never going to know her. Olga later told 48 hours that she believed if the police had broken down the door on the first day, she called Yanna might still be alive.

That's a valid point. And it's possibly true. But we said it, right? They didn't feel as though they had probable cause or anything to warrant them busting in at that time. Now, what would have happened if they would have busted in? Could it have completely ruined a prosecution? Possibly. I don't know what the ramifications would have been if that would have been.

determined to be an improper entry. Would, you know, any evidence seized while they were in there then not be usable in court? I have no idea. Yeah, but I think the family would say we'd rather take that chance and have her still be alive versus. Oh, I'm sure the family would say that. But here again, if you're the police, can you knock down people's doors just because someone calls and says, hey, I'm worried. No, no. If they knock down every door for every call that they got on a, let's say a welfare check, it'd be missing doors all over the place.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd have 10 doors out in my garage. Now, Sergeant Rob Martindale said that based on the pathologist timeline, Yanna was likely dead by this point. In 2019, a judge ordered Blake Libel to pay $41.6 million to Yanna's family. The family attorney said Olga would use the money to help raise her granddaughter. They had both moved back to Ukraine. I don't know that he had $41 million.

No, I don't think so. If he had, I don't think he would have had a public defender during his trial. But I don't have a problem with that judgment. No. Whatever assets the guy did have, they should go to the, you know, the welfare and the upbringing of his daughter. Yeah. Blake's appeal was denied in April 2020.

You know, we've talked about the evidence in this case. And to me, it clearly proves that Blake murdered Yan. Based on statements from friends and the creative ideas he proposed. It does seem as though, you know, this was a guy who was fascinated by murder and torture. I think a lot of people said that. I think for me, one of the big questions that still remains and has been debated is how much this graphic novel syndrome influenced the murder. You know, like I said earlier, it's a fascinating kind of part of the story. But I think even if you took it out, the guy's not walking free.

No, not at all. It wasn't a linchpin in the, in the trial. I think what some people have questioned is, would the murder have taken place without this novel? And I would say probably, yeah, I can't imagine that this novel caused the murder. Now, did it cause him to maybe carry it out in a certain way versus another way? Yes. Possibly. Yes. Yeah.

But I don't think it was the catalyst for the murder. I think the catalyst was the fact that this guy was a POS. He was all about himself. He couldn't handle not being the focal point of Yanna's attention. He didn't spend time with the baby. I don't even know if he liked the baby. I think he looked at the baby as part of the problem. Yeah, I don't think he did either.

So this was a tough one, man. You know, the details of the murder were graphic. But I think you have to talk about. them because if you don't, if you gloss over all of it. And there was some that we probably left out. We didn't get as graphic as we could have. Oh, yeah. But if you gloss over it entirely, you're not really painting the full picture of how big of a monster this guy really was. No, I think you need to tell that part of the story, right? Yeah. Yeah. And whatever way, you know, we deem appropriate.

But it doesn't make it easy at all to listen to it. I mean, there were times I know that I looked over at you, you're visibly upset. It was disturbing. Yeah. And I'm sure some people listening will feel the exact same way. But that's it for our episode on Blake Liebel. We got some voicemails, Gibbs.

You want to check those out? Let's hear it. Okay. I am called up on everything. So I was looking for something else to listen to, and I happened to remember that you might have a podcast called criminology. So I was going to go over there and listen for a minute and see if I liked it because, you know, Gibby wasn't on there, so figured I'd give it was a shot. Anyway, so listen to a little bit of it. And are you sure Morp isn't just an alter ego of Gibby?

Because I know he does like all sorts of accents and impersonations and everything like that. And I have to admit, I haven't listened much yet, but there's a lot of similarities between Morse's voice and giving his voice. Of course, Gibby is like that's hearing or rugged seldom, but are you sure Morp is a real person? I'm just wondering.

It's the big question. It is. Is he? Or is he not? Or am I or am I not? Is it live or is it Memorex? Now, a lot of people have met Morph at CrimeCon. Sure. But is that the guy on the podcast? Or...

That's the way we hired. Is that a guy that you hired to pretend to be a Morph. Yeah. We don't know. I mean, we know, but. But nobody else knows. His wife doesn't even know.

Morph will get a kick out of that. When he hears it. Hi, Mike and Giddy. I am one of your newest listeners. I actually came across your podcast on Audible. It's been absolutely amazing. So I started listening to the first few episodes, and then I actually went back to the very first episode,

which I found out that, You guys are originally from when I listened to the very first episode, and I'm about to, you know, listen to episode eight. So I figured I'd go way back and start from the beginning and they worked my way up. I realized, I found out that you guys are actually from Dayton, Ohio, which is funny because that's where me and my family are originally from. We're originally from East Dayton, Ohio. My dad graduated from Belmont High there.

We actually are in Tennessee now, but I thought it was super cool. My dad's name is Mike also, or Michael, but everybody calls the Mike, so I thought that was funny as well. But I just love your guys's podcast. I enjoy every time I listen to an episode. I have, I just finished my bachelor's in forensic psychology, so it's right up my alley. I just want you know you guys are doing a great job and keep your own time ticking. You guys be safe. Bye.

All right. Awesome. I actually had somebody close to me and my family. that graduated from Belmont. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. New some people from Belmont as well.

So that's cool. Love it. Awesome that she's just finished up her bachelors. Yes. In that field. You know, I've said it many times. If I was to go back and redo things, I probably would go that route. Go back.

Do it. I can't. My DeLorean is busted and I don't have the flux capacitor. Well, that's a problem. Or else I would. Yeah. But we appreciate the voicemails. We also had mailbag.

Amber sent us a goodie box from Canada. She sent some ketchup-flavored Cheetos. Catch-up flavored Cheetos. And they're shaped like leaves, like maple leaves. Oh, yeah. Those Canadians. I know. They're always up to something.

Yeah. She also sent us like some maple leaf stickers, maybe a Tim Horton sticker. Because you heard how much I love Tim Hortons? I do not. Mickey sent us in some stuff. for Christmas, including some Harley chips, really cool stuff. So appreciate that. Yeah, we haven't had Melbag in a while.

And then all of a sudden we got quite a bit, some of it I'm saving for next week. There you go. Thank you to everyone. That's it, bud, for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and give me, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.