True Crime All The Time - Brian Scott Hartman

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

33-year-old Scott Hartman lived in Williamsburg, Indiana, when he was charged with killing his parents. Initially, the authorities thought his mother died of natural causes. Scott said that his father, Brian, had taken a trip. But all of his stories quickly fell apart.Join Mike and Gibby as they talk about Brian Scott Hartman. Scott told many different stories about what happened to his parents. It seemed as though Scott was coming up with different stories to cover the known facts and evidence. But his stories were so outlandish that they defied belief. What would the jury believe?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 406 of the True Crime All The Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing okay. How about you? I'm doing very well. Awesome. We talked about it on our weekly Patreon.

Just having a good week, both of us. Yeah, good times. Which doesn't always happen. It does not. Sometimes one of us is having a good week. The other's not. Sometimes we're both having bad weeks. And we don't want that anymore.

No. No more. No. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Jason Ash. Hey, Jason. Michelle McCarty. What's going on, Michelle?

Nana Greta's daughter. Ah, Greta's daughter. Stephanie Casson. Hey, Stephanie. Karris Gathy. Okay. Yeah. Kendall Belland.

Hey, Kendall. Stephanie Stanley. I appreciate that, Stephanie. Jennifer Lamont. Hey, Lemon. Tony. Hey, what's up, Tony. And last but not at least.

Sophia Agra-Olea. Oh, Sophia. Yeah, fun name to say. It is. And if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Melissa Bufonos. Oh, Bifonos. So appreciate the new support, the continued support.

We also had a great PayPal donation from Richard Amy. Hey, thanks, Richard. Yeah, thanks to everyone. Gibbs right now, we have a new episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Daniela Vian. She disappeared in 2018. And then months later, they found her body inside her vehicle submerged in a body of water. But this is one of those cases, Gibbs, where, you know, is it an accident?

Was foul play involved? And we'll get into all the details. Yeah, I can't wait. All right. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Brian Scott Hartman. Hartman was in his 30s when he was charged.

with killing both of his parents. And we've had these cases before where, you know, kids kill their parents. This one's different. You know, it's the reasons behind the killing that really kind of jumped out at people, shocked people. I'll say shocking for sure. 33-year-old Scott Hartman lived in Williamsburg, Indiana.

His parents were 53-year-old Brian Ellis Hartman and 52-year-old Sherry Ann Hartman. Brian was a self-employed contractor and a farmer. He was described as a homebody who loved living in rural Randolph County. His sister told the Palladium item. She couldn't remember him ever spending a night away from home his entire life. And, you know, there are a lot of people like that. You know, to an extent, I am a major homebody. You really are.

Now, I've traveled. I've spent many nights away from home. but there are some people who, you know, they don't leave their home. They don't leave their small town. They just don't travel. And they're good with that. They're totally fine with them. Now, it could be that, you know, work kept him.

Being a farmer is kind of a seven day a week thing. It's kind of a tough job to walk away from. Yeah, a little hard just to jet off to maybe Disneyland, right, when you have things that have to be done. Scott is Brian and Cherry's only child. It was said that Brian dedicated his life to his wife, his son, his two grandchildren, and a few close friends. Brian's sister Barbara told the palladium item, Brian was a good grandpa. He really loved his grandkids.

They loved him dearly. A relative of Sherry said Sherry's whole life was Scott and those kids. Sound like they were really into their family. Yeah, family was everything to them. That's what I'm getting. It's kind of the vibe here. by the way. Family is everything?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt. And I can tell you when grandkids do come along, they're going to be, you know, our whole world. Oh,

those kids don't even know what they're in for. They're going to be spoiled. All for sure. For good or for bad, right? You know, however it turns out, they're going to be spoiled. Scott and his two children lived in a second home

on his parents' property, which Brian built for them. Brian hoped his son would one day take over his contracting business. So, you know, when you say whole world, yeah, you know, people can throw that phrase around, but, you know, he's their only child. He built his son a home. Yeah. So that they could, you know, live on the property, probably for a number of reasons, you know, to help out financially, but maybe also to have him and his grandkids closer. Well, absolutely, yeah. If I build them a house on the property, then they're stay close by.

Maybe one day, like you said, you'll take on, you know, take over the contracting business, the farm and all that kind of stuff. But selfishly, maybe I'll get to see the kids more. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's a pretty smart move, to be honest with you. And I think if other people could afford that, they would do the same thing. Yes.

Yeah. Not always in everyone's budget, right? to be able to just build a house for their kids. In the three years leading up to her death, Sherry Hartman had been battling cancer and emphysema. She was in poor health at the time of her death. Brian's sister Barbara told the plodium item that Brian supported Sherry through her illness and took on roles he wasn't used to when he felt like he needed to break. He went to see his neighbor and best friend Charlie Ogden to play pool.

You used to be a pretty good pool player. Yeah, I was. I was. I remember that one time. It was me, Tom Cruise, Jackie Gleason, and Paul Newman. Paul Newman. Yeah. And that was a heck of a game.

You're all playing with your own sticks? Yeah, exactly. But I want to talk about, you know, this situation. You know, Sherry, Brian, they've been married for a long time. You know, when you have a spouse who goes through a very, very significant illness, cancer and emphysema, or, you know, she's battling for her life. It was said that Brian had to take on roles he wasn't used to. You're going to have that.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because Sherry's not probably not able to do some of the things that she was before. So maybe she did most of the cooking. Maybe she did most of the cleaning. I don't know the dynamics, but you're going to have, and the other spouse, have to step up and do a lot of those things. And that's just how that goes when you're married to somebody and, you know, they get ill. Or that's how it should go. Well, I think that's a good

statement to make, right? There's the way it should go. There's the way that most people would do it. And then there's what some very selfish people would do, which is maybe cut and run or, you know, just do whatever they want to do really without regard for. the other person in their life. Scott Hartman first got in serious trouble with the law in June of 2008 when he was arrested for trying to obtain OxyContin with a forged prescription at a CVS in Richmond, Indiana. He later pleaded guilty to attempting to obtain a controlled substance and was placed on probation for 18 months.

I mean, that's a serious problem in America. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the opioid epidemic. And nowadays, you know, we're talking about this fentanyl and, you know, some of these things that can not just get you addicted, but can kill you instantly. This fentanyl scares the you know what out of me. Yeah. It should.

On April 1st, 2009, a warrant was issued for Scott's arrest after his probation officer reported that he missed scheduled appointments, had not attended classes, and hadn't performed his community service. This warrant was still pending at the time of his arrest. So, you know, we're going to have to get into that. How big of a deal this was, how much it plays into, you know, what he ultimately did. But, you know, let's just talk about the fact that you're arrested. You plead guilty to a pretty serious crime and you get probation.

You've got to be feeling pretty good about that. I think so. You know, it's not the end of the world, right? Well, you're not going to do jail time or prison time or whatever. You got probation. But there are some stipulations to being on probation. All of them, you know very, very well with all the different monitoring devices that you've had. I mean, you've had to alter your car to, you know, breathe into it before it'll start up.

You've had a lot of things that you've had to do over the. the years. But no, in all seriousness. So you kind of, I don't want to call it skate, but you know, you get a favorable sentence. And then you don't do what you're supposed to do as part of your probation. And it's something I can never understand. Yeah, it's not like it's a difficult task, right? It's like show up to your appointment. Yes. And all probations are different, right? Some you have to show up somewhere some you just have to make a call to your probation officer but here you know okay you have to attend some classes you got to do a little bit of community service well in the grand scheme of things that versus you know laying next to baba in a prison cell that sounds uh pretty good to me

absolutely it does versus the alternative and no offense to bubba but it's just you know not something that i would really want to have to do. do because I always picture Fletch with Chevy Chase, you know, they come to get him out of the cell and he's, he's laying there. I think it's, what is his name? Randall Tex Cobb. Yeah. It's like holding him. Yeah. Like snuggling with him. Yeah, that is not what I want to happen. You love that show. I do love Fletch. I remember you telling me that. I've always been a big Fletch guy. I was a big Chevy Chase guy. I didn't like the remake of Fletch. Yeah, it was okay. I mean, it was, yeah, obviously had, did have that R. Lee Ermi or whatever his name is.

The guy from Full Metal Jacket, he has since passed away, but the drill sergeant. Yeah. I just don't know. John Hamm just didn't get it for me in that remake. Oh, you're talking about, I haven't seen that. Oh, you haven't? I thought you were talking about Fletch, too. No, no, no, no.

Because they made two different movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about the remake of Fletch. No, I haven't seen that. Save your time. on February 12th, 2010, Scott called 911 to report that his mother needed urgent medical care because she was having difficulty breathing. An ambulance arrived and transported Sherry to the St. Vincent Randolph Hospital in Winchester, Indiana. She passed away the next day on February 13, 2010.

I mean, I think this is a situation that happens to a lot of people. You have a family member who's having an issue. You call 911. That's what you're supposed to do. Sure. Help arrives, get them to the hospital. Now, sadly, she died. Her death was not considered suspicious.

I mean, let's think about it. She has a history of cancer. She has a history of emphysema. She was in poor health. So it adds up. Yeah. To the point where no autopsy was conducted. A hospital bed and oxygen were found at the house, which I think even further supported the belief that Sherry died of natural causes.

Her remains were cremated at Scott's request. But after Sherry died, family members noticed that Brian was nowhere to be found. He was last seen by relatives on February 12th. That's the day she went, you know, to the hospital, to the emergency room. And I think very quickly, right? family members are going to take notice of that. This is his wife. He's been caring for her.

Where is he? It's somewhat strange. Yeah. You don't see him at the hospital. You don't see him around. And now we find out that Scott's kind of making all of the decisions about, you know, what should happen to his mother's remains. Now, Scott said Brian was distraught during his mother's final hours and abruptly left to go on a trip,

leaving Scott in charge. of the funeral arrangements, Brian's family suspected something was going on because we talked about it, right? This guy was a homebody. He didn't like to travel. Relatives also noticed

inconsistencies in Scott's stories. That's where you get in trouble when you start mixing up your stories. Well, you've said it many times, right? If you're not telling the truth, it becomes tougher, right? To stick with, one story. If you're telling the truth, that story is going to come out pretty similar every single

time because it just is what it is. But you could definitely see why Brian's family would be suspicious at this point, right? They haven't seen him. He loves his wife so much, but during her final hours, he just leaves and goes on a trip. This is a man who never takes trips. Doesn't really add up, No, it doesn't seem to add up at all. When the family came to the house, they saw that Brian's wallet, truck, keys, phone, and checkbook were left behind. That makes it even more difficult to believe. Yeah. I mean, here's a guy who doesn't take trips, but if you are going to take one, things you would need, wallet, your truck, your keys, a phone, maybe a checkbook, who's taking a trip without those thing. Neither one of us. Yeah, no, I'm not going to take my checkbook, but all those other things I'm

going to need. At one point, Scott said his father left on February 11th in a car driven by a man he didn't know. He was asked why Brian would leave his keys, checkbook, wallet, and cards behind. Scott claimed his father had $10,000 in cash when he left. So you are going to have to come up with something, right that explains why your dad left behind all of these things that all of us take with us wherever we go pretty much well 10,000 dollars cash is a lot of money to have in your pocket well when you don't have your checkbook you don't have your wallets with your credit cards debit cards you know you're going to need cash right to do whatever it is you're going to do maybe that was part of the reasoning behind that and then there's this kind of mysterious

man, who Scott didn't know that he said picked his dad up. Well, that explains why his truck and his keys. Maybe we're left behind. But again, to me, when I hear these stories, I always think, well, you have someone who is trying to explain the known facts away, right? Or try to make them make sense. Because on their own, they don't. No, they don't. He then told, Relatives, that Brian left in a taxi on February 12. So again, you know, when you start telling a number of different stories, well, how are you to be believed? People are already suspicious. You're just giving them more ammunition.

On February 12, Scott told friends and relatives. He was speaking to his dad every single day, but phone records didn't support this. Well, his dad didn't have his phone with him. So how's his dad making contact with him? Well, even if he was using a pay phone. Right. Let's just for argument's sake, he has to be calling Scott on either Scott's cell phone or on a home landline, all of which are pretty easily tracked, whether calls are coming in or not.

And those aren't showing up, so it doesn't make sense. Besides, the only thing you can come away with is that Scott's lying. I mean, at this point, it seems that way, doesn't it? The only recent activity in Brian's bank account was a $2,000 check made out to Scott, which he cashed. Scott told the police that Brian gave him his checkbook and cards to pay for the funeral. But doesn't that sound really suspicious? All of it. All of it does, right?

When a detective noted that Sherry was still alive, at the time Scott claimed his dad left home, Scott didn't respond at first. and then he asked to speak to an attorney. Because again, you're weaving multiple stories to try to explain the known fact. At a certain point, does a person start to realize that, you know, this is not working? You know, I can't spend this enough because they're not believing that my dad, who loved my mom, his wife dearly, would have just taken off. in the final hours of her life.

Yeah, because it makes no sense for him to do that. The family also learned that Scott filled one of his mother's prescriptions for narcotic painkillers on February 17, four days after she died. And why would you do that? Well, this is a guy that we said, right, has a history of abusing drugs, but that's going to be a hard one to explain away. you're obviously not filling that for your mother because she died four days earlier. So what are you doing it for?

Well, one of Scott's children told a relative she saw her dad snorting and taking pills. Sherry's funeral was held on February 20th. Neither Scott nor his father attended the funeral, which only made Brian's family more concerned. So Scott says his dad, you know, had to get away. But he's not going to come back for the funeral? And Scott doesn't even show up for the funeral. funeral. None of this seems believable. And if you're the family that's there, how frustrated are you that neither the husband or the son is at that service? Well, I think you're frustrated, but you're also

probably a little shell-shocked at this point because things aren't adding up. Around 2 p.m. that day, the Hartman's neighbors caught Scott breaking into their home, attempting to steal prescription medications. The two occupants of a home called 911 and reported that they were hiding upstairs and feared for their safety. Scott broke a window in their front door around 2.15 p.m. 45 minutes before his mother's funeral started. He had been at their home before when he tried to persuade another occupant of the home to share prescription medication with him. Clearly he has a problem. Yes. I mean, there's no doubt about it. this is, you know, behavior that you see from people who have a serious drug problem.

You know, at a certain point, some people will do just about anything. Yeah. To get their hands on whatever they're addicted to. But now we know why he didn't show up to his mom's funeral. Scott was arrested minutes later and admitted he accidentally broke the glass on the front door. He wouldn't say, though, why he went to the house. Scott was taken to the county jail to await formal charges. Brian's family reported Brian missing on February 21st.

They emphasized that he didn't attend his wife's funeral and they hadn't seen him since February 12. Scott was formally charged with burglary on February 22nd. That day, Detective Douglas Fritz tried to question him about his father, but Scott asked for an attorney and the detective was forced to end up. the interview. He's requesting an attorney pretty quickly. Yeah, because I don't think he wants to have to try to answer this detective's questions. You know, any questions about his father. I think he already knows by this point that, you know, he spun a number of tales. And they didn't go down, I think, the way that he was hoping they would. And that's what always gets me, right? These people

come up with these stories. And I think in their minds, they just believe that people are going to buy them and go on about their way. But it just doesn't work like that a lot of the time. On February 23rd, 2010, investigators executed two search warrants on the Hartman property and found Brian's body. Brian's body was stuffed into a large plastic container in the garage of the family home. He had been shot in the head. The cold weather helped preserve his body, and authorities believed he was killed on February 12. The day he was last seen alive, officers recovered the murder weapon from the property. Blood was found in different areas of the house, which indicated the shooting did not occur in the garage. The police found blood spatter on the wall and headboard in Brian's bedroom and a trail of blood,

leading to the container that held his body. Well, this definitely changes everything. Yeah, it changes everything. But it's also what appears to be a pretty cut and dry scene, right? Nothing appears to be staged, cleaned up. They find blood, which clearly indicates, you know, where Brian was shot. They find blood indicating he was dragged to the garage. They even find the murder weapon.

This is not a scene where, someone frantically tried to cover their tracks. Yeah, they didn't even get rid of the body. Or the murder weapon or clean up anything, really nothing. Detective Tom Pullens, who searched the house, returned to the county jail and read the search warrants to Scott. He asked if Scott had any questions. Scott asked if they found anything.

Detective Pullins asked Scott, if he was indicating that he wanted to speak with the detectives. Scott said he did want to speak with him. So he was taken into an interview room and read his Miranda rights. Scott indicated he understood his rights and proceeded to make an extremely incriminating statement. So at first, he didn't want to talk at all, right? He wants an attorney. He doesn't want to speak to detectives. But this question that he asked, did detectives find anything? Well, it seems like a very stupid question. he had to have known what they were going to find because he's the one that left it all

there. Sure. And now all of a sudden he wants to talk. According to the palladium item, Scott explained that he had made a plan with his father and mother in which according to the plan, he was to shoot his father in his sleep and assist his mother in completing suicide by taking an overdose of drugs. However, based on the details of his safety, he was to shoot his son. He was, he was, he statement, it seems as though Brian was unaware of the plan. Scott's statement to the police was detailed in court documents filed later that month. According to the palladium item, Scott said that Sherry had talked to him of giving her pills when she was ready to die, but she didn't want his father to see her deceased.

So according to him, right? This is all according to him. The plan was for him to shoot his father in his sleep. So he wouldn't know it was coming. And then that would be followed by his mother taking an overdose of medication. So he's talking a lot. He is talking a lot. But he also has come up with something.

Right. And this is something that we discussed quite a bit. You know, a person in this situation, if they are going to talk, they have to come up with something that explains the facts, the evidence and kind of everything that has unfolded. And actually, he has done that. Now, whether you believe that or whether a jury would believe that, he has at least come up with a story that explains what happened and why it happened. On February 12, 2010, he said his mother indicated it was time and she wanted to go.

Scott began giving his mother medication around 4.15 a.m., but he said he couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger of his 12th. Gade's shotgun when he first entered his father's bedroom. At 10.30 a.m., he returned 30 minutes later and killed his father by shooting him in the head. Scott pulled his father's body through the house into the garage and put him in a cargo container. So it took him 30 minutes to find the courage? According to him.

Yeah. He said after killing his father, he removed the bloody sheets, pillows and bedding, and gave his mother a bottle of pills. The bottle contained an anti-seizor medication. He knew she was allergic to. Sherry ingested several pills. Scott called 911. After her breathing became erratic,

he said this was part of their plan because she didn't want to be on life support. This is all coming from him and nobody is alive to say anything different. Which happens in so many of the cases we cover, right? That's why, you know, I feel as though some of these individuals feel like they can say pretty much whatever they want. Because anyone who could either, you know, refute it or corroborate it is dead. So what are you left with?

This person's work. Now, you could make the argument that he really did hatch this plan with his mom. I think most people would find it hard to believe that most mothers would form. a plan with their son to kill their husband solely for the fact that they don't want them to see them die. I get it. No husband wants to see his wife suffer and die, but are you really saying that he'd be better off shot in the head? Scott admitted he consumed Oxycontin after his parents' deaths to end his life. On February 24th, Scott Hartman was preliminarily charged with murder for the of his father. Prosecutor David Daly told reporters that he wasn't certain. Charges from the death

of Sherry would be filed. Assisting suicide is illegal in Indiana, but with no autopsy and no body, there really was no evidence of suicide. And I get it. They would have a tougher time proving that, with nobody to exhume and test. Yeah, it'd be a really tough thing to do. But on February 25, Scott was formally charged with both murder and assisting suicide. Now, I said they don't have the body to exhume and test, but they do have Scott admitting to it. After he was charged with murder, Scott's ex-wife, Angel Marie Hartman, filed an emergency petition for modification of custody of their two children who were 10 and 11 years old. Probably a very smart thing she did.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, this doesn't seem like an individual. who is stable. He clearly has a drug problem. We know that. Now, both his mother and father, you know, wind up dead and he's being charged. And he has a pretty wild story to tell. According to the Pladium item, Scott had a turbulent divorce with Angel. The divorce suit was filed in July in 1998. There were multiple requests for restraining orders, contempt citations, and changes in custody and visitation. Right.

So not an amicable divorce. It doesn't sound like. Not that uncommon though, right? No, I mean, I guess some are, but I think a lot of them are contentious, especially when kids are involved and, you know, there's custody involved. In August 2023,

Angel and her boyfriend were charged with two counts of neglect of a dependent. After Scott told the police, his kids were bound with tape while visiting their mother's home. Angel said these were games of hostage, where the participants' wrists and ankles were bound with tape to see if they could escape. She acknowledged accidentally cutting her child's shoulder while removing the tape with a pocket knife.

Okay. I mean, there's a lot of different games you could play. You know, maybe they still make twister. I mean, there's shoots and ladders, Monopoly. hostage is not a game that I've heard of playing with, you know, your kids. Probably best to leave out of one alone. Yeah. I mean, just come up with, you know, something different. Maybe make a for it out of sheets and pillows in the living room or something like that. Angel was found guilty of neglect and sentenced to one year of probation. The conviction was overturned 11 months later. She maintained that Scott was blowing the incident out of proportion so he can move with the

children to Tennessee. She told welfare investigators, he said he could give them a better life than me. So, you know, it's hard to say, you know, maybe this was a harmless little game. It seems a little strange, I think, to you and I, but given what we know about Scott, it is very possible that he was, you know, blowing this out of proportion into something much more than it was, still not sure you should be binding your kids wrists and ankles in any type of a game. I don't think that's a good thing at all. Before trial, Scott's defense filed a motion to suppress his incriminating statement. A judge ruled against the defense, but Scott's attorney was granted permission to pursue a ruling

from the Indiana Court of Appeal. Well, they got to try to get this thing thrown out. Because they don't want the prosecution to introduce it because it's too damaging. Yeah, absolutely, right? I mean, one of the first things that a defense attorney does is try to get incriminating statements made by their client thrown out. And let's face it, the statement he made was pretty incriminating. Oh, yeah. I hatched a plan with my mother to kill my father and then assist her with ending her life.

You're still admitting to murder and at the very least assisted suicide, if not a second murder. Yeah, not good. In June 2011, Scott's trial was placed on hold indefinitely until the state's appeals court ruled on the issue surrounding his statement. On March 2nd, 2012, the Indiana Court of Appeals ruled that the jury would hear accounts of Scott's statements made to the police. It took a little bit of time. And it always does. I get it. They're busy. There's a lot of cases that, you know, people try to appeal up to higher courts. But, you know, in all these cases that we do, it does seem to take a long time for these things to wind their way through the higher courts.

The defense filed a new appeal. And the issue then went all the way to the Indiana Supreme Court. I bet they did. They don't want this to come out. But they're not giving up. They're going to pursue every avenue they can. On June 7, 2013, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled that Scott's confession could not be played at Trump because detective should not have approached Scott again after he requested

an attorney. He had been in custody for two days when he made those remarks. And according to the Star Press, the court said that the uncertainty and the stress of the situation was heightened due to the second fact. factor that he had requested the assistance of counsel and that counsel had not been provided to him. So it paid off for him to take it to the Supreme Court. Oh, absolutely. The Indiana Supreme Court also suggested Scott was courced because his statement was taken in the early morning hour and a detective falsely told him he was required by law to read the already executed search war. So you would have to

say Gibbs that this was a big win for Scott and his defense team. Oh yeah, huge. In response to the court's decision, Prosecutor David Daly asked to file a murder charge against Scott for Sherry's death. A judge ruled in his favor in August 2013. The defense filed for a dismissal of the entire case, suggesting Daly was being vindicted because the state Supreme Court ruled a confession could not be used at trial. And maybe he was being a little vindictive. Yeah, he might have been a little upset of what he thought was going to be a slam dunk case at that time. It wasn't.

It was going to be a little tougher. In September 2013, Scott's defense filed a request to try the two charges separately. A judge denied the motion later that month. So why would they want to do that? Well, my thought is, you know, he has never said that he killed. his mom. Now I get it. The statements were not going to be allowed to be introduced. But I'm thinking that the defense just thought the case against him for Sherry's murder would be so much weaker. It took over three years after Brian and Sherry Hartman died before Scott

finally went to trial on October 8th, 2013. Scott's aunt and daughter were the first two witnesses called. Barbara Baumgartner testified that Scott called her on February 13, 2010, and reported that his mother died overnight. He said, Brian had just left on a two-week trip because he promised Sherry he would go out and do the things they never got to do when they were married, per the Star Press. So again, back to this story of in the final hours of his wife's life, he is going to take a trip. Well, now it comes out that Scott said it was going to be a two-week trip, this for a man who never left home at all,

and he's going to go out and do all the things that he and his wife said they would do, but never got the chance to. Now, if you told me, he took this trip, you know, six months after she died, I would say, okay, that makes sense. sense. You know, he is honoring her. He's, he's trying to, you know, live up to maybe something he told her they would do, but they never got the chance to. But in the context of his wife, dives, it just makes no sense at all. There's no way to wrap your mind around it. Now, if I'm sitting on that jury, I'm going to have a really tough time believing this story. You mean Scott's story? Yeah. About his dad's trip. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. me too. Barbara said she thought all of this was suspicious because Brian was a homebody.

Barbara and other relatives later went to the home and found Brian's personal belongings there. We talked about that earlier. All of these things had to build suspicion. First, you hear that he took a trip. Okay, he never leaves home. Boom. Suspicion level one. You go to the house. You find all of these things that people would normally take on a trip, and that just further raises that level. She said that she saw a large black box in the garage, which she later learned held Brian's remain. A little freaky. It is.

To know, now you're going to find out later, but to know that, you know, you were standing in that garage while Brian's remains were, you know, inside this box. While searching the second house on the property. She found Brian's license. and social security card, that was when she knew something terrible had happened to him. And I think if you're Scott, you know, how are you going to explain that away? You know, his license and social security card aren't found in his house. They're found in the second house on the property.

Well, who lives there? Scott. Yeah. Not looking good. No, it's not looking good. The defense requested a mistrial after Barbara brought up Scott's arrest for burglary, but the motion was denied. So, I mean, the one thing you can't say is that his defense team is not trying.

I mean, they're trying everything. Yeah, they're making efforts. Scott's 15-year-old daughter testified that her father had a habit of taking Sherry's prescription painkillers and replacing them in the bottles with over-the-counter medication. For about a year leading up to his arrest, Scott crushed up narcotics, rolled up a dollar bill, and snorted them. And apparently he did this often in front of his children and then stumbled around the house because he was so high. It's such a problem. It is a problem.

But again, you're not going to win dad of the year awards when you're acting like this. But people with these types of serious drug problems, this type of addiction, they do things that most of us could never dream of doing. I get it. You're addicted to opiates, but you're snorting this stuff right in front of your kids. I mean, obviously he did because they, you know, were able to tell authorities that he was doing it. And then you're just going to stumble around the house high as a kite. His daughter began crying when she testified that her father broke his promise to stop using drugs by Christmas 2009. She also testified that Scott told her and her brother to stay away from their grandparents' home. on the day they were killed.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's not a smoking gun per se, but when you're adding up everything, probably not too hard for, you know, a juror to make the connection. Why would you warn your kids away if you didn't know that something bad was going to happen? Sherry's physician testified that her brain tumor

had not grown since her surgery in 2008. She was chronically ill with emphyseysia. and other illnesses, but she was not on the verge of death when she examined Sherry 10 days before she died. She said Sherry was fatigued but resilient. So is this now going to question, was this assisted suicide or was this just murder? Well, I think for most people, it might swing the hammer towards murder because, you know, his story was that his mother was on the verge of death. And she was saying, I'm ready to go.

It's time for me to go. And here you have Sherry's physician saying, yeah, she was chronically ill, but she was nowhere near, you know, on the verge of death. She was tired, but she was fighting. Yeah, she was resilient or resilient. Okay, you said it exactly the same both times. Neither one of them correct, but we got what you meant.

In closing arguments, Prosecutor David Daly told the jury that Scott killed Sherry because he didn't want to leave behind a witness to the murder of his phone. Daly presented the testimony of a pathologist who said Brian died of a head wound created by a shotgun blast fired inches from the back of his skull. The prosecution noted that Scott had total control over the crime scene for more than a week before Brian's body was found. So he could have disposed of the body any time he wanted to.

He could have cleaned up. He could have cleaned up. He could have gotten rid of the murder weapon. He did none of that. But it makes sense that if you don't want a witness around, take care of your mom, blaming on something else. But can we talk about a shotgun fired to the back of someone's skull inches away from it?

It's going to be brutal. Yeah. I mean, when you think about shooting someone in the head or someone being shot in the head, it's never going to be a good scene. But depending on what type of gun that's used, you know, the hole may not be that big or it's going to be gruesome, but a shotgun blast, that's going to be brutal. Yeah. The prosecution acknowledged. No autopsy could be performed on Sherry's remains, but a significant number of her recently prescribed narcotics were missing. Well, we know who took those.

Yeah, I mean, it's probably not too hard to figure that out. Also, I think if you're on the jury, are you questioning why Scott made the decision so quickly to have his mother cremate? Oh, I think you have to. You don't know for sure, but I think if you're a juror, it's hard not to. the defense presented no evidence at trial. But in closing arguments, defense attorney Mark Cox argued

there was not enough evidence for a conviction. The defense also questioned why Scott would kill his mother, who, according to them, was his drug source. Yeah, but they also said the prosecution, he'd want to kill her because she would be a witness. On October 10th, the jury deliberated for about an hour before finding Scott guilty of two counts of murder. On November 7, 2013,

Scott Hartman was sentenced to 120 years in prison. The judge called him the definition of a cold-blooded killer. Pretty harsh. Pretty harsh, but desert, right? If this thing went down the way that the jury saw it, and you have to think that the judge saw it that way too, or he wouldn't have made that defund. of a declaration. Scott's daughter spoke about how he lied to her after he killed her grandfather.

She said she forgave him, but wouldn't forget and added that he would not be there for her wedding and other important life of him. Well, he gave all that up when he decided to pull that trigger. Yes, but you have to feel for his children. Oh, for sure. You know, they lost their father, but they also lost their grandparents. So they're going to miss out on a lot of things over the years. Scott declined to speak at the hearing. In September 2014, the Indiana Court of Appeals upheld Scott's convictions. Scott argued that the murder charge from Sherry Ann's death was based on a desire to punish the defendant for something the law allowed him to do. The court ruled there was no evidence.

The charge was punishment for Scott's pretrial motion to suppress. In regards to the request to sever his trials, the court ruled, acknowledging the overwhelming evidence against him in the death of his father, Hartman argues that he was only convicted of killing his mother because the evidence showed he killed his father. This then created an improper inference of guilt. This prejudice in the subsequent murder conviction. It follows would not have occurred had the charges been severed. We find no evidence, nor does Hartman point us to any, that the jury had difficulty distinctly. the evidence as it related to Brian Ellis or Sherry Ann or that the jury had difficulty

applying the law to each offense. The evidence supporting the murder charge for each crime was very different. Therefore, the trial court did not abuse its discretion in denying the motion to sever the charges. So obviously, you know, that goes back to what we talked about earlier, right? The defense wanted to sever the trials, the charges, because the evidence against him killing his father, I think was a lot more damaging than it was against him killing his mother. But the appeals court found that the trial court, you know, didn't do anything wrong. In March 2015, the Indiana Supreme Court declined to hear Scott's case. Well, based on the outcome earlier, there is no reason to hear it. Yeah, they're pretty selective,

right? State Supreme Courts, the United States Supreme Court, I don't know. know what their criteria is for hearing cases. Sometimes I feel like they don't want to get involved in some of the high profile ones, but you never know. According to the Star Press, Scott's release date is February 2017. Gibbs, he'll be 93 years old. Wow. If he's released. 2070. That's like a date you would hear in a sci-fi movie. Yeah. I'm trying to think how old I would be at that time. You will not be with us. I will not be. Most likely.

I hate to say that. Unless I do that, you know, cryogenic. Yeah. You know, freeze yourself like Walt Disney. Just my head,

you know, attach it to a younger body or something. Might look a little strange. Maybe someday you'll have that kind of money. I wish I, I don't think I'd do it anyway. It's a little strange, right? A little scary.

A little scary. So as we wrap this one up, you know, I did find the case very, you know, interesting. There is this question. of, you know, whether Scott Hartman was carrying out his mother's final wishes when he shot his father and helped her overdose, or did he have a much more sinister motive, such as getting access to his parents' money and property?

Well, for his plan to work, you'd have to kill both of them. If his plan was to get everything. And it's kind of hard not to think it was. You know, when you look at most crimes. most murders. What do they come down to? A lot of them come down to money. And as the only child, he was probably set to receive quite a bit of it. Now, I don't know how he thought he was going to get away with it. You know, his efforts or lack of efforts to clean up the crime scene, you know, all of these different lines to his family. I think he clearly knew that he would be charged with murder if he was caught. but I just don't know how he didn't think he was going to get caught.

Did he really think that everyone was going to buy this story of his father, you know, taking a trip? And when was his father going to come back? Yeah. It seemed like a very short-sighted plan or story. I know I had a real hard time believing it. Well, I think everybody did. Everybody in his family did and all of that.

Again, though, if you have a very serious drug addiction, are you making the best decisions? And was he even coherent enough to come up with believable stories? Yeah, probably not. If he's crushing all these pills and snorting them and all that. How clearly is he really thinking? Yeah. Because for me, it didn't make sense when he said his mom wanted his dad dead. I know why he wanted.

Yes. But it didn't really make sense for him to say his mom wanted his dad dead. No, but, you know, if you're strung out on drugs, does it make sense to you? Oh, probably. And maybe it did. And maybe it was as simple as, oh, everybody's going to believe this. And, you know, I'll get away with it. No problem.

The other question that we have to talk about, because it does remain unanswered, is even if there was a plan for Sherry to end her life, which I don't believe there was. But if, let's just say there was. It doesn't seem as though Brian was in on the plan at all. Even in Scott's story, his dad didn't know about that. Yeah. It was just between him and his mom. Again, I don't think that's the way it went down. But based on Scott's own statements, it doesn't seem like his dad knew about it, even if it was true. I wonder how he felt if he went or if he ever got sober in prison. You know, did he feel real like, oh, I can't believe I did this? What was I thinking? I always have that question. But like I often say, you know, I'm sure there are

people who have real remorse for what they did. And, you know, Scott Hardman might be one of those people. But I think more often than not, people are remorseful for the fact that they're in prison. And maybe the two go hand in hand. Maybe they get skewed or combined. But I think a lot of it is not so much for what they did. Because if they could have done it and got away with it, they'd been okay. Yeah. But they didn't get away with it. So now they're remorseful because they're going to spend the rest of their life in prison. Yeah, there you go. That's what I think. But that's it for our episode on Brian Scott Hardman. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs.

You want to check them out? Let's hear them. Hey, guys. This is your podcast on Freddie Owen. And we were talking about the lethal injections and finding the drugs and that's the, and having the option to choose. I'm no expert, but I think I heard a podcast years ago, and they were saying, like, lethal injections, it actually could be really bad.

If the drugs aren't sinister improperly, people really suffer. and they're like paralyzed. They can't move or communicate, but they're actually concealed the pain and it's really rough. After chair, which is typically quick, so we probably seem to be mild where it doesn't know that,

I'm pretty sure that could happen, but I do think some hiring spot. You have a bunch of people who know how to shoot, they're aiming for your heart or your head, and I mean, I think you're pretty likely to die more or less in simply, so honestly, I think that would be my best, I'll give you a little information on legal injection because I don't think it's as humane and painless as people tend to think.

All right. Talk you guys later, guys. Well, first of all, I never want to be in a position where I have to choose between any of those. Well, there you go. Because I don't think any of them are foolproof. I mean, something can go wrong in any of those scenarios, right? The drugs don't work the way they're supposed to. The electric chair doesn't work the way it's supposed to.

opposed to somebody's aim is off and you get winged a couple times or, you know, they have to shoot you multiple times before you're dead. I mean, I just think there's a lot of things that could go wrong. What about if you like had to just go in a cave with like Jason and Michael Myers and that's how it happens? Yeah. Well, if that was real, that might be a solution to the problem. Well, I mean, they're real. It's not going to be humane. Are you saying Jason? and Michael's not real. They were real in my childhood. They're not as real today.

Hey, Mike. Hey, I give you. This is Joseph Williams. Second time caller for the podcast. I was just listening to the Owens case in Greenville, South Carolina. I am from Anderson, South Carolina. Imagine my surprise. I sit down, fix my breakfast, drop my hot cup of coffee,

sit down, turn Spotify on, listen to this True Kime episode. and it's just right up the road for me, 45 minutes, right up the road. I just want to say that was a pleasant surprise. Always a good way to start the week listening to you guys every Monday morning. Always make sure to have Spotify download my newest episodes from you guys. Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your week. And stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

Bye-bye. Man, love hearing that. Yeah, yeah, love it. Man, after my own heart, starting a day off with coffee. it's the only way I do it. Coffee and true crime. Actually, the day doesn't get started until I have at least one or two cups of coffee. You get pretty irritable.

Yeah, I do get irritable. We do hear this from people from time to time, right? You know, a case hits a little differently when it's closer to home. Yeah. You know the locations or you're familiar with the area. It just, it hits a little differently. But I'm glad you liked it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

We had a lot of men. So Robert Johnson sent in a Harley chip and he said in his note Gibbs that I had the greatest job because I got to work with you. Well, duh. No. Hey, we do have a good relationship here. No, yeah, we do. He did say something about it would be great if, you know, when he was working, if you would have been there side by side with him. I think a lot of people feel that way about you.

They would like for you to be there with them. Spend time. Give me a call or work it out. Owen sent us in some Tim Tams. And in a first two model airplanes. Awesome. So we each have a model airplane to put together. We'll have to make some kind of contest out of it.

I wonder if you still use that glue that you sniff. The one that you probably don't have any left of because you sniffed it all up. Yeah. Yeah, that stuff. And our great friend, Mary Beth Long. sent two boxes. One was addressed to my wife. And it was just full of Utah stuff, National Park stuff. It was packed. Yeah. Because I think I said my wife, you know, had Utah on her bucket list. And, and then she sent you one, too, with some similar stuff in there. Sure. It's just all kinds of things.

She's awesome. She is awesome. She really went out of her way to, uh, to pack these boxes. They were not light either. I know. I got to find a way to get it from here out to my truck, but I'll do it. So we appreciate that. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gabi, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.