True Crime All The Time - Bruce McArthur Part 1

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Bruce McArthur is a grandfather who worked as a landscaper and a mall Santa in the off-season. For nearly eight years, McArthur lived a secret life as a serial killer, primarily targeting men in The Gay Village, an LGBTQ+-friendly area of Toronto.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the Canadian serial killer Bruce McArthur. In part one of the Bruce McArthur episodes, we’ll cover the police investigation and how McArthur was first identified in connection with missing men. Rumors about the missing men and a possible serial killer in Toronto’s Gay Village started in 2010. McArthur had a habit of targeting South Asian or Middle Eastern men who struggled with their sexuality. He knew many of his victims, which meant there was a connection to him; the police just had to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 414 of the true crime all of the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good about you. I'm doing great. We just talked about it on our Patreon episode for this week, but we're both having a good week. Yeah. I'm, I'm happy and excited because my kids are coming home this Saturday. Yeah. And they've got a couple of weeks off from school. They're going to be home so that's always cool. I'm going to force you to come out of this basement. Maybe a little bit, yeah.

Yeah. But I will to see them. That's a good thing. Let's go ahead and do our Patreon shoutouts. We had Rizza. Hey, Rizza. Astrid Cox. What's going on, Astrid?

Brooke. Thanks, Brooke. Lee Linder jumped down to our highest level. Oh, you're awesome, Lee. Kathy. Hey, Kathy. Jimmy Schneider. What's going on, Jimmy?

Michelle Carmichael. There's Michelle. Miranda B. Oh, good old Miranda. Sally Shepman. What's up, Sally? Tyler Tyler 1-015M. Well, thanks, 1015M.

Which is very specific. It's very. And last but not least, the machinist Gardner. Well, thanks, Gardner. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Jeff Hardin Jr. Well, thanks, Jeff. Yeah, appreciate the new support,

the continued support, all of them. So Gibbs, we have an episode out right now on True Crime All the Time on Salt, and we're going back over 100 years to talk about Bella Wright. Bella was riding her bicycle to visit a relative when she encountered this man on a green bicycle. Some witnesses saw them together. Then hours later, her body was found, but police identified this guy. So there's a ton to get into. I don't want to give too much away. I want people to check this episode out because it's about as close to being solved as an

solve case can be. Sure. Very interesting. Yeah. Very interesting. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We're starting part one of a two-parter on Canadian serial killer Bruce MacArthur. This is a guy who is a grandfather who worked as a landscaper and a mall Santa. But for nearly eight years, MacArthur lived a secret life as a serial killer. primarily targeting men in the gay village, an LGBTQ plus friendly area of Toronto. A mall Santa. You know, I did watch bad Santa. Yeah.

The other day. I hadn't seen it in a while. I forgot how raunchy that movie is. Is that the one with Billy Bob? Yeah. Yeah. That is a raunchy movie. Yeah, not one for the whole family.

No. Not a Christmas movie for the kids. by any means. And, you know, what I really found strange and interesting about Bruce McArthur was that, you know, most of his victims were either South Asian or Middle Eastern men who struggled with their sexuality. Some of the victims dealt with addiction and homelessness. But, you know, to target specifically South Asian or Middle Eastern. men. That seems kind of strange to me from a serial killer perspective, not something that that we've seen a lot of it's not typical. No, I don't think it is. I mean, people have their type.

Right. And when I say people, not just serial killers, right? Everybody has their type, whether you're talking about dating or whatever it is. Serial killers do as well. Sure. But most of the time we see you know that it's a it's a specific gender or the person might have a specific trait i don't know that we've seen very often someone targeting people specifically from a region outside of where they live if you were one would you like target like i don't know what would your target be like if i was one meaning a serial killer yeah so you want to play devil's advocate on me being a serial killer and you want me to say who I would target. I think you probably target like podcast co-host in their mid-40s to 50s, maybe slightly

older. That's what I'm thinking. Okay. I don't know. Maybe. Could be wrong. Maybe. Yeah, I don't know how anybody would answer that question.

Well. And if they should not. If they were being honest, then everybody should be scared of that person. Absolutely. So in part one of the Bruce MacArthur episodes, we'll cover the police investigation and how McArthur was first identified in connection with missing men. Rumors about the missing men and a possible serial killer in Toronto's gay village started in 2010. 40-year-old Scandara Navaratnam went missing on September 6th.

2006, 2010, he was last seen around 2 a.m. with two men at Zippers Nightclub near church and Carlton streets in the village. The police believe he was murdered that day. A friend reported him missing on September 16th after not hearing from him for days. And I think that's a little different than what we normally see in a lot of the episodes that we cover. That's 10 days. Before, this person was reported missing. I think when you're single and you don't have that daily interaction with people at home, I think that distance of time can occur. Yeah, I think there's a lot of variables, right? How much family do you have? How close are you with that family? How often do you speak with them? Yeah. You know, are you single, alone? You don't live with anybody. You know,

are you not going into a specific, you know, work site where they're going to miss you? A lot of different variables involved. But, you know, I did say early on that MacArthur targeted South Asian and Middle Eastern men. So we are going to be talking about a lot of people with names that are a little harder to pronounce than, let's say, a normal episode. and we struggle in most of our episodes, let's be honest. You really do. I really tried to go out of my way to listen to a bunch of pronunciations of these names, but like I always find, they're all over the map.

Sure. Yeah. I'm here to help you. Well, you always are. Scandra Navaratnam, who went by the nickname Scanda, was a charismatic man who loved animals and was an environmentalist. Now, you love animals. I do love animals.

You also have called yourself an environmentalist. I don't know what you do for the environment, but. Drive a truck. You drive a gas guzzling truck, but you think of yourself as an environmentalist. But, you know, people always get on some of these billionaires who are always talking about the climate, and the environment, but yet they are jetting all around the world.

Hey, when I jet, I want to use one engine. I don't use both. Just to save on. To save on the environment. Okay. I should. Turn out of their engine off, pilot. Safety be damned.

Yeah, that's right. Scanda was an immigrant from Sri Lanka. According to the CBC, his brother described him as a jovial character in their family. He wanted them to have a better life and financially supported them while he was. was living in Canada. Jovial. Haven't heard that in a long time. You probably won't hear it.

You're probably exactly right. I don't think people consider you all that jovial. Nor should they. No, it's a word that a lot of people don't use anymore. But I think, you know, are we getting into why maybe it took so long for someone to report him missing? You know, it sounds like he's in Canada. sending money back home to family in Sri Lanka.

So maybe the only people to miss him quickly would be the friends that he had made in Canada. Scanda was always willing to help others. His friend Kevin Nash recalled a time when his son was briefly missing. And Scanda got on his bike and drove around nearby parks looking for the boy. Scanda went missing over Labor Day weekend in 2010. And we said it, right? He was at Zippers Nightclub and last seen with an unknown man. A few months later, a second man disappeared from the gay village on December 29th, 2010. 44-year-old Abdul Basir Fasie called his wife and told her that he was working late.

However, he was last seen at Steamworks, a bathhouse in the gay village. The police believe he was. murdered on the day he went missing. You ever taken a steam? No, I don't know that I've ever taken a steam. I thought you were going to ask me if I've ever been to a bathhouse. Well, that was my next question. If you were taking esteem, was it at a bathhouse?

And that's why I have to take my time answering these questions from you because I feel like I'm getting ready to open myself up to something. I think I've been in a sauna. Yeah. But I've never, is that a steam? Is that the same? thing. I know. It's a little, I don't know the differences of some of these things. Take a steam. It's going to be a little more foggy.

Steam room, right? Steam room. We see hot moisture jetting out at you. Yeah, no, I've only ever done like the, the wood encased sauna type thing. Hot sauna boxes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Remember that movie Eastern Promises? It sounds familiar. I can't remember his name. Good actor. okay well i'm glad you started this conversation up then but that's like there's a big fight scene is it clive no it's the um he does a movie like called hinda go or hendigo or something we rides a horse across hidalgo had dogo yeah he's talking about uh vdo morgan yeah that's him something something yeah yeah yeah okay yeah this this is great podcast i got to be honest with you um but he was in this movie

called Eastern Promises. You got that part. He got in a big fight inside the bathhouse. Okay. Was that worth it? Was that worth it? Probably not if I could pull it back or, you know, I'd say edit it out, but you'd like to, you'd like to leave this in.

Oh, I'm leaving that in. Faisi's cousin reported him missing to the Peel Regional Police on December 30. Abdul Bessier Faisi was a funny and intelligent man who loved his two daughters. he had been married since 1999. A friend recalled that the last time they spoke, Faisi said he was working overtime to buy Christmas presents for his children. Oh, dedicated guy. Yeah.

And I know there's a lot of parents out there who do. You know, Christmas is expensive. I don't think there's anyone who would argue with that. Now, some people spend more, some people spend less. Some people go overboard, spending money they don't have. I mean, you know, we've all done probably a mixture of all those things. The one thing I will say is that, you know, a lot of the things that your kids put on their Christmas list can be very,

very expensive. And you start to see those pile up on there. You're like, oh, well, obviously you're not getting all that. But you might have to work overtime or even a second job to pay for some of that stuff. Yeah, especially as your kids get older, the gifts get more expensive. But Abdul Bessier. was living a secret life. He was hiding his sexuality from his family.

According to the CBC, Faisi spoke to a childhood friend about the possibility that he was gay while he was still living in Iran. His friend told him he was in the wrong place to be gay and he should, quote, try to find God or leave. I think he's right.

Probably not the right place to be openly gay. Yes. Iran. Right. Doesn't sound like it from what this guy was saying. On January 4th, 2011, the police found Faisi's car abandoned on Moore Avenue in the area of St. Clair Avenue, East and Mount Pleasant Road. When speaking to the police, Faisie's wife said her husband had no enemies. He wasn't involved in criminal activity and spent most of his time working or with family. He seemed happy and was looking forward to going on vacation. They weren't having any financial

problems at the time. The police took the family's computer as part of the investigation. As quoted by the CBC, his wife learned that her husband was living a double life and having numerous extramarital affairs with men.

The investigators felt that he abandoned his family and didn't want to be found. Probably a confusing time for the family. Hearing this, one Well, wait a minute. What's really going on here? Well, number one, I think if you're a wife that finds this out about your husbands, that's going to be a startling revelation. But here it's on the heels of him going missing. And then I think, you know, this presents kind of a quandary for the police. Is this guy really missing or does this information mean that, you know, he was already, kind of leading a second secret life and he decided that he was going to abandon his family for that life. Now, I don't think it's right to assume stuff like that. Of course. Yeah. And the research

didn't say that the investigators did. It said they felt that that could be the case. His wife made attempts to locate him by sending emails and reaching out to friends both at home and abroad. None of them knew about phasy secret life. His cell phone was soon disconnected. So that is truly a secret light. Sounds like he didn't share that with anyone. For whatever reason. Maybe he was scared because the religious side of it or...

Or maybe he was scared of losing his family. Yeah. Maybe he just didn't feel like there was anyone in his life who he could entrust with that information. I don't know. His wife later initiated divorce proceedings to get custody of the children. She wrote in one court filing per the CBC, I believe Abdul Bacier Faisi has abandoned his family, including his children.

I believe he is avoiding all responsibility to his family, both emotional and financial. He is avoiding completing a divorce and seeing and supporting his children. So it sounds like his wife and the police. kind of thought, he's still alive, but he voluntarily left. Detective Marie Catherine Marceau from the Peel Regional Police was investigating the disappearance of Abdul Basir Faisi. She told colleagues there might be a serial killer in the gay village. And she was laughed at.

She tried to contact the Toronto Police but didn't get a call back. She sent an email comparing Faisi's case to other disappearances in the gay village and receive no response. The Toronto police told the BBC, there was no record of the correspondence. Well, it's probably good. There was no record because it wouldn't look good for you if there was some records. Well, maybe there was a record at one point. And that record miraculously disappeared.

They got Ray Donovan. They got Ray Donovan after the serial killer aspect came out. I mean, I get it. you have this theory that there's a serial killer, are some people going to be skeptical? Yeah, I can see that. Now, being laughed at, I don't know. If you've got quite a number of people who are going missing from this same locale, is it that far fetched to think that there might be a serial killer involved? Not at all. Nearly two years later on October 18th, 2012. Fifty-eight-year-old Majid Kayan was last seen by a friend near Alexander and Young

Streets. Authorities believed he was killed on or about to stay. So this is the third individual that we're talking about. And all three, the police believe they were murdered the same day they were last seen. So what does that mean? If this is being done by the same person, they're killing them pretty quickly. Yeah, this is not a person that is taking their victims and keeping them somewhere for a period of time before killing them. Cyan's adult son reported him missing on October 25th. Majid Cyan moved to the gay village after his marriage broke down. He lived on Church Street and frequented bars in the area.

Sources didn't really have a lot to say about his life, but we do know that he had many older siblings, nieces, and nephews. He had two children and three grandchildren. He told his friends he was in a relationship with the man, but his family knew him as his roommate. His family maintains that Kayan was not gay. I don't know if he was or wasn't, but that would be hard for some family members to come the terms with. I think it can be. I mean, I kind of feel like the signs point to him being in a relationship with a man. I mean, he moved to what is known as the gay village.

Right. And he apparently told friends that he was in a relationship with the man. In November 2012, the police created a task force called Project Houston to investigate the disappearances of Skanderov, Navarraf, Navarra. Bratine, Abdul Basir Fazi, and Majid Kyan. On September 17, 2012, the police obtained the first judicial order of Project Houston, which was a tracking warrant for a vehicle. The task force would obtain 40 more warrants during its operation.

So, you know, it's obvious Gibbs that, you know, we went from a point of, you know, one officer saying, I think it's possible we have a serial killer. She was laughed at to a task force being established. Was that because, you know, the numbers increased or, you know, just more signs started to point to that fact? I don't know. But obviously at some point in time, someone made the decision that they thought a task force was warranted.

On December 20th, 2012, the police. obtained a general warrant for a residence in London, Ontario, owned by James Alex Brunton. Brunton was investigated as a suspect in the disappearance of Skanderov-Navratum. At least six other judicial orders were obtained in connection to Brunton. They must have really thought they had something here. Yeah, connected to this James Brunton guy for sure. Now, he was later ruled out as a suspect in the disappearances. But he did plead guilty to child pornography charges in January 2014.

On November 11, 2013, Bruce MacArthur was first interviewed by the police after an analysis of Scanda Navaratum and Abdul Basir Phasies belongings. Indicated they connected with him on a dating site. We got some common ground here. Sounds like it. Now, we know he's eventually going to become a key suspect in the investigation. investigation of the missing men, but what first put him on the radar, a connection with two of the missing men based on a dating site. And this is what we talk about, you know, all the time, whether you're talking about serial killers or someone who's plotting a one-off murderer,

you know, this electronic trail that we all leave every day. True. Yours is, probably one of the scariest ones of all. I'd hate to to see the full breath and width of it. I do that to throw people off. Oh, so you visit certain sites just to throw people off. But, you know, in all seriousness, the question at least comes up to me a lot. I mean, how do people not know that eventually, you know, that kind of connection or that, electronic trail, whatever you want to call it, is going to catch up with them. If you're killing people that you met on a dating site, you don't think they're going to go back, investigators and look at, you know, what these people were doing before they went missing, who they were talking to, what's on their computer.

Well, I think some people just don't clue into that. I think people are more aware of it today. Yeah, probably. over the last 10 years, I'd say so. But we're not talking about 1950 here, right? Or 90s. This was 2012, 2012, 2013. It wasn't the initial stages of the internet.

Like nobody knew, you know, what police could gather, I guess. Thomas Donald Bruce MacArthur was born on October 8th, 1951, and Lindsay the Ontario. He was the second child of Malcolm and Islay MacArthur. Bruce grew up on a farm near Argyle. His mother and father had a good reputation in the community. They were foster parents to troubled children from Toronto who came to their farm to get out of the city. The farm life, man. That will straighten you out. Well, we've talked about it many times. There's going to be a lot of work to do. Mary Ann McKeachir and a family friend who grew up with Bruce told the National Post. There was always kids coming and going. Lots of times there would be maybe six to

10. I never heard any of those kids ever complain about being there. That is a lot of kids to kind of foster. It is, but it sounds like they were happy why they were there if they're not complaining about it. Well, I'm taking that to mean they were treated well. According to the Canadian Encyclopedia, Bruce's father was Presbyterian and his mother was Catholic, which caused some division in the home. Bruce often sided with his mother, which made his father angry. Bruce later told a therapist that he believed his father suspected he was gay and tried to suppress this through manual labor. He felt like his dad gave him an unfair share of the farm labor. And he resented him for this.

You know, you can always tell when a parent gives you more work than somebody else. Than one of your other siblings or treats you differently. Yes. You know, like the youngest often gets away with more. The oldest is asked to do more. Maybe punished more. That happens in certain families. But, you know, I really want to focus in on this idea that Bruce thought his father suspected he was gay and was trying to.

to suppress it or kind of force it out of him through manual labor. And I'm not so sure there weren't quite a few men back during the time frame that we would be talking about here who might have thought like that, that this was more of a choice that they could influence as opposed to the kind of the knowledge that we have today. Yeah, I remember we're hearing about certain camps like this, you know, that the objective was to work it out of them. Bruce was an average student. According to Ron McKeachern, who attended school with him, he was the teachers suck. He never got into any trouble.

Like, we were in a one-room school, boys, we done shit. He was always sucking up to the teacher. If we got into trouble, he'd run in and squeal on us. He just wasn't like the rest of the boys. I have never heard that term. The teacher suck. Yeah. You never heard that, huh?

No, have you? Actually, I have ever since I've been going up to Canada. Oh, okay. Well, maybe that's a Canadian type of term. I've never heard it. I mean, that could be taken, you know, a bunch of different ways. Absolutely. But obviously, it's kind of like teacher's pet maybe or suck.

up, I think is what they're trying to say. Right. For his senior yearbook entry, Bruce said his favorite pastime was a good argument. And his ambition was to be successful. Well, you like a good argument as long as you win. Well, I win most of them. But I do like a good argument every now and then. Now, I don't like to start them.

But if someone starts one with me, I have no qualms about jumping in. and actually kind of relish in the back and forth. Yeah, you're a very confident arguer. Orator. Orator. He wrote about his future. Your guess is as good as mine. So, you know, what's your ambition to be successful?

Well, who doesn't want to be successful? How are you going to do that? I don't know. Yeah. After high school graduation, Bruce completed a two-year business course at college in Barry, Ontario. When he was 23, he married Janice Campbell, who attended the same high school. They had a son named Todd and a daughter named Melanie. Bruce and Janice moved away from Lindsay after graduation, but they went back to visit Bruce's parents often. And both of Bruce's parents

died relatively young. His mother died of cancer in 1978. She was only 49. His father died of a brain tumor. In 1981, he was only 59. That is young. Bruce started working as a buyer's assistant for Eaton's department store in downtown Toronto. This position led to a job as a traveling salesman for McGregor hosier. Remember when George's dad was trying to get into, was it hosery? He developed the man's ear. The man's ear, yeah.

In 1986, Bruce and Janice purchased a house. in Ashawa, Bruce and the family moved to Ashwa, Ontario. And he later became a merchandising representative for Stansfield Limited, a clothing manufacturer. So Bruce appeared to be a pretty normal family man, right? He kept a steady job. He was active in his local Presbyterian church. But there were problems at home.

So doing well everywhere, but at home. It sounds like it. I mean, you know, he jumped from job to job. some, but don't we all? And I think a lot of the problems that he had at home were due to the fact that he came out to Janice in the early 1990s and admitted that he had been with men during their marriage. It'd be a tough conversation to have. It would be. I mean, anytime I think as a spouse, you're admitting infidelity. That's going to be a tough. conversation. But this is a different dynamic. You know, this is a man admitting to his wife,

not only that he's had affairs, but these affairs were with other men. In the late 1990s, Bruce began a relationship with the married man that would last four years. Bruce and Janice separated in 1997, and he moved to Toronto in 1998. In 1999, Bruce saw a psychiatrist as a result of of difficulties coping with the breakup of his marriage and his first gay relationship. He also declared bankruptcy that year. Bruce experienced financial difficulties when he lost his job and had to pay for his son's legal expenses. Then it was reported that as a teen, his son taught got into trouble for making obscene

phone calls to women. He didn't know. He eventually received dozens of convictions for harassment, in making indecent phone calls. In 2014, Todd was sentenced to 14 months in jail. After he confessed to making multiple obscene phone calls to a stranger at her workplace,

he was already on probation for two similar charges when he committed the offense. His lawyer told the court he was diagnosed with telephone scatilogia. Scatilogia. And had been treated for this illness for at least a decade. I think it would be hard to do those type of calls with caller ID and. Yeah, we're not talking the 1980s here, 1970s.

No, yeah. This is 2014. Kind of risky making calls like that today. Well, and it sounds like he knew it was risky. He had already been convicted. He was on probation for two similar charges. It was almost like he had the compulsion, though, and he couldn't stop. I've never heard of telephone scatilogia. I don't even know if I'm saying it correctly.

Usually scat refers to feces. So I'm not really sure the origin of that word, but... Look at you breaking down the word. What do they call that? The etymology? I don't know what the right word is, but... I think it's funny that you're asking me. It is. I'm sure I got it wrong anyway. Todd's condition was linked to depression and could be associated with his first sexual experience. He said he had an explicit conversation on the phone with an older woman when he was just 11 or 12 years old. And I don't think you can downplay what experiencing adult type behavior at such a young age can do to somebody. It's kind of what I worry about today with the ease of access with, you know, to pornography on the internet.

I don't know, you know, how many kids are seeing things. They shouldn't be seeing at the age that they are. Too many for sure. I'm sure it is. And what is it going to do to them down the line? Todd was warned that if he offended again, he would go to federal prisons. In the fall of 2017, he was charged with new counts of indecent telecommunication, criminal harassment, and breach of probation.

He was released on bail in order to stay with his father in Toronto. So I said, you know, Bruce is having financial issues. He's having to pay for, you know, some of his son's legal fees. Sounds to me like some of these legal fees could have been quite extensive for the amount of trouble that he was getting into. At Todd's sentencing hearing in 2014, the Crown noted that Todd had extremely supportive parents and came from a, quote, healthy middle class family. And I'm sure they were seen as a, you know, kind of a normal middle class family.

Does seem strange, though, that Todd, who's in all this trouble, is released to his dad's custody, to live with his dad, who is later going to be found to be a serial. killer. It is strange. In December 2000, MacArthur and his wife sold their house in Oshawa. According to the National Post, it's not clear whether Bruce and Janice were ever legally divorced. It seems like they maintained a pretty positive relationship. After the separation, Bruce was referenced in her parents' obituaries in 2003 and 2007. And Janice attended his sister's anniversary party in 2017. Well, it sounds like they probably had a decent relationship then. And a lot of people do.

You know, they realize that they can't make it work, a marriage. They don't want to live together. But it doesn't mean that they, you know, at some level, still don't love each other or at the very least can be civil and, you know, have a good relationship for the sake of their children or just in general. Bruce's Toronto apartment had three bedrooms. He had a roommate and he saved a room for Todd. A friend of Todd's once came to visit while Bruce was away and found disturbing photos in the bathroom attached to Bruce's room. This friend told the Toronto Star, there was a lot of developed photos of naked men with erections. It was probably shocking to find. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how old this this guy was. But there's also, you know, the sense that, well, this is my buddy's dad. He's divorced.

He may not have had any idea. I don't think probably didn't that Bruce was gay. So, yeah, I think it could have been a little shocking. Todd told him these were men his father knew. When the photos were mentioned at breakfast, Bruce laughed at all. So it doesn't sound like it was that awkward of a conversation for him. Just kind of got past it. Hey, you're in my house, man. You want to use my bathroom? You're going to see pictures of men's erections. That's just going to happen. That's just part of the deal. But is that any different Gibbs than, you know, you go to use like your your buddy's bathroom and his dad's got a playboy in there. Oh, yeah. Not that strange. No. Now, when you're 10, it's confusing. Yeah. But when you're an adult and you, okay, he's got a playboy in there. I'm sure it's just for the articles, but whatever. I mean, I've used this bathroom here downstairs and there's things in there that I'm really not sure, but I don't say anything because, you know, it's your bathroom. What you do in your bathroom is between you and that bathroom. Yeah. What happens in the bathroom stays in the bathroom.

Exactly. Bruce frequented bars in Toronto's gay village. Some men who dated MacArthur said he had normal sexual interest, but others said he enjoyed BDSM and rough sex. And I think a lot of people, I don't know how many a lot. I think obviously there are quite a few people who are into this kind of BDSM lifestyle. I don't understand at all because it's not something that I've ever been.

into, you know, I don't really think I would enjoy like a, like one of those ball gags in my mouth or, you know, anything like that or being zipped up in a leather hood or I'm trying to think of things I've seen in movies that might be, or being whipped. I don't want to be hurt in any way. Just the fact that you said, ball gag in your mouth. I guess I'm kind of thinking pulp fiction is about the extent of my knowledge. Oh, man. I hope that when you play this back later, your wife hears that.

I just wanted to hear that. Well, she'll hear me say, I don't know anything about it. Some people who knew him or had dated him thought he was obsessive and controlling, but his friends said they saw no signs of anger issues or aggression. But does that surprise you at all? No. I mean,

how many times have we talked about serial killers who, to their friends and family? were the absolute complete opposite of how they were with, you know, their victims or really what their true nature was. They were playing a part to all these other people showing them the good side. According to Robert James, who got to know Bruce in the gay village, Bruce often expressed sadness over the fact that his son didn't accept his sexuality. Well, I can see how some sons could struggle with that. Yeah.

Yeah, I could see it. You know, if you thought that, you know, your dad was this family man. And then at some point, you found out that he was gay. I'm sure some people in that situation would struggle with it. But it sounds like, at least from what, you know, Bruce was telling people that his son never really fully accepted it. I could understand, you know, it being shocking when you first found out, but over the years, it sounds like he just never really accepted. Eventually, Bruce started seeing a psychiatrist and was prescribed Prozac. He also took a muscle relaxer that he said he used as a sex aid.

And it seems like that would have the opposite effect of being a sex aide. Maybe there were just some muscles that he needed to relax. Yeah, I'm kind of latching on to that now, as you say it. In 2003, Bruce started a landscaping business called Artistic Design. He developed a large client based, mostly consisting of older, wealthy women. Bruce couldn't store his equipment in his apartment, so he made a deal with a few of his clients. He agreed to work for free in exchange for storage space. Bruce occasionally hired workers. Some of them were South Asian or Middle Eastern men. Bruce first got into legal trouble on October 31st, 2001. When he assaulted a man with a metal pipe outside the victim's home, 36-year-old Mark Henderson was walking home when he was

attacked. He was unlocking his apartment door and fell to blow to the head. He saw the attacker lift the pipe over his head and felt multiple blows. Well, metal pipe will definitely do some damage. Yeah, I mean, to me, that's a very scary situation. You're attacked from behind while you're trying to open your door. Henderson told local news outlet W5, every muscle in his face was clenched. He was full of rage. Henderson was able to get into his apartment and call emergency services.

and the attacker fled. MacArthur turned himself in that afternoon. The police learned that he met the victim through a chat line, and they had sex twice. Bruce maintained that he blacked out before the assault and didn't know why he did it. According to court documents, MacArthur admitted to consuming Amyl Nitrate,

known colloquially as poppers on that evening. some poppers well i i don't know that i ever did poppers can't remember doing poppers but maybe i did him and don't remember it because apparently he blacked out or at least he said he did but how strange is it you know that he turned himself in well maybe he thought it was just a matter of time anyway it was trying to just hedge it off yeah i don't know maybe he realized what he had done and he felt sorry but that would be kind of an anomaly right from what we're used to Right. On January 29, 2009, 2003,

MacArthur pleaded guilty to one count of assault causing bodily harm and assault with a weapon. On March 19, 2003, Dr. Marie Franz Dionne wrote a psychological report on MacArthur at his lawyer's request to find out if a mental health issue could have led to the assault. Per the CBC, the psychiatrist found no sign of mental health problems. that could have contributed to the incident and offered no explanation for the assault. There was a low risk. MacArthur would reoffend and he showed absolutely no signs of psychopathy. Okay.

I think there's very little doubt that that person was wrong on both accounts. According to CTV news, the assessment also stated, his profile portrays an exaggerated striving to be liked. as well as a rigid intense compliance to social conventions, tendencies to want to be seen as self-effacing and non-assertive are also apparent. On the surface, he expresses a strong sense of duty to obey and follow others as if their expectations of him must not go unmet. How do you feel about that description?

To be honest with you, it made me think of you. I feel like for as long as I've known you, you've always strived to be liked and to really meet the expectations of the people around you. Been a tough go. To be liked and to meet all these expectations. Absolutely. No, I mean, I'm being pretty serious, you know, a strong sense of duty. I feel like, you know, and most of this comes from us working together. Sure.

But you always had that. Now, I'm not saying you're a serial killer or anything like that. On April 11, 2003, MacArthur was sentenced to two years of probation, a six-month curfew, and a 10-year weapons prohibition. He was forbidden to possess the muscle relaxer, amyl nitrate, and was barred from the gay village for the period of his probation. He was also ordered to take anger management counseling. and submit his DNA to a database.

So he only got probation, but there was a lot of stuff that kind of went with it, right? A six-month curfew, 10-year weapons ban. It's a long time. He's not allowed to own the, you know, this muscle relaxer. And for the whole two years,

he's barred from the gay village. And he's got to take anger management. And submit his DNA to a database. So that's a lot that goes with it. but you're not going to actually spend time incarcerated or any more time than he might have. I don't like when you got to take those courses, like anger management. Remedial driving, any of those types. All that stuff, yeah.

The Crown and defense entered a joint submission for a conditional sentence. The Crown believed it wouldn't be in society's interest or Mr. McArthur's interest to have him go into jail at this point in time. now obviously gibbs they're going to look back on that as a is a mistake but it's kind of hard to to know at that point that this guy is or is going to become a serial killer true the Toronto star quoted MacArthur it is sentencing hearing my life's been kind of a mess in the last year and a half knowing what's going to happen and what's happened to me I'd like to apologize to the victim. I wouldn't know what to say other than I'm sorry for all the pain and anger I've caused him.

So I don't know. I get the feeling that, you know, maybe he's saying this stuff for the benefit of the court, you know, to benefit him. But they're also, unlike many serial killers, seems to be something different about Bruce McArthur. He voluntarily turned himself in. Now, I know he didn't kill this guy, but he's apologizing. I mean, how many times we talk about people saying the F word to the victims and flipping

them off and doing all these things? This is not this guy. It's almost like he has a level of compassion. Or he feels bad. Or he feels bad. Or he's putting on an act. But he didn't have to turn himself in. That part's kind of still throwing me.

After his probation ended, MacArthur resumed. presumed frequenting bars in the gay village. He made accounts on dating sites. He preferred submissive men and wrote that he likes to push a guy's limits. Okay. That's a pretty broad statement and one that quite frankly might scare a lot of people, should scare a lot of people. So now let's focus on MacArthur's interview with the police on November 11, 2013, right?

this is back to him being linked with two people through a dating site. MacArthur explained that he knew Scanda and Averatnam from a group he socialized with at a Toronto bar called Black Eagle. He denied having a sexual relationship with Scanda. However, sources report that MacArthur met Scanda in 1999 and that they had a romantic but non-manentan. monogamous relationship in the early 2000s. Scanda worked for MacArthur's landscaping business at one point. The two continued seeing each other over the years. Another friend of Scanda's met MacArthur in 2008 or 2009. This friend wasn't surprised. He was seeing MacArthur because Scanda liked older men.

The two were Facebook friends. MacArthur was active on social media. He shared recipes. videos, cat pictures, and posted photos of his children and grandchildren, as well as photos of him working as a mall Santa. I mentioned that, right? He worked as a mall Santa. Yeah. Would you ever do that? Work as a mall Santa or post any pictures to Facebook?

Because the answer is the same to both. It's no. No and no. No, but again, I'm getting such a different vibe from this guy than I think. we have gotten from a lot of serial killers. Yes, they want to blend in. They don't want to stand out. But how many of them are sharing recipe videos and cat pictures on Facebook? I don't know how many. McArthur admitted to knowing Kyanne since 2003, he did landscaping for Kyan and they had a sexual relationship, which he said he broke off. McArthur was not considered a suspect at this

time. So, you know, he went through the interview process. He must have done pretty well in explaining, you know, yes, I did know these people. I had sexual relationships with these people, but I don't know what happened to them. The task force Project Houston shut down in April 2014 due to a lack of criminal evidence. On June 3rd, 2014, MacArthur was granted a record suspension from the parole board of Canada in connection with his 2003 conviction. This meant his record was essentially expunged. But just a little over a year later, another man went missing. On August 15th, 2015, 50-year-old Sirush Mahmoudi was last seen sleeping in his apartment on Markham Road in Scarborough, Ontario. He didn't show up to work later that day. Investigators believe he was killed

on or about this day. Mahmoudi was described by friends as a jokester. He enjoyed camping and soccer. He moved to Canada as a refugee. When he was 20 years old, he didn't have any family. Until he met his wife, he worked at an auto parts factory until 2008. Then started working as a taxi driver.

He later moved to the Toronto area to be closer to his wife's family. Sirush's wife reported him missing on August, 22nd. And I, and I was looking at this timeline and I found it a little bit strange because it was seven days since he was last seen before his wife reported him missing. Now, we talked about, you know, some other people who didn't have family. You can make that work out. You can make sense of that because they don't have anybody dependent on them every day. Less people to notice that they're missing. Yeah. But you can make sense of that. You can make sense of that. Because they don't have anybody dependent on them every day. And less people. Less people to notice that. Yeah. But you would think if you got a wife and you're seeing her on a regular basis that

maybe the report would come sooner, maybe there's something to it that wasn't in the reporting. Well, yeah. Maybe there's something we just don't know. Yeah. In August 2015, the family of 37-year-old Khrushnah Kumar Kanagoratna spoke to him over the phone for the last time. Khrushna came to Canada in 2010, hoping for a bright future, he arrived with 491 other Sri Lankans fleeing a civil war. He lost his youngest brother during an armed conflict in 2007. He worked on jobs in Toronto and sent money home to his family. He was said to be the responsible one of all his siblings. In 2013, Khrushnah told a friend that his application for refugee status,

and his subsequent appeal were rejected. He remained in Canada and over the next couple of years, he called his mother every day, but those calls stopped in August 2015. So, you know, his family was worried, but they didn't report him missing because they thought he was in hiding and would be sent back to Sri Lanka if he were found.

So that's a different scenario altogether. It is. It really is. They're receiving regular calls, the call stop, they're worried, but they don't want to report him missing because they would have known that, you know, his request for refugee status had been rejected. His appeal had been rejected. And they didn't want to put him on the radar because he's, they're just going to send him home.

And I'm sure they're not thinking the worst at that point, even though they're worried. They have to be worried. They're worried, but they also, you know, like they said, thought, well, maybe he was just in hiding. The police believe he was murdered between September 15th and January 2016. In December 2017, his family posted on Facebook that they were looking for him. The police saw this post and investigators said they had evidence linking Khrushna to Toronto up to 2014. On April 22nd, 2016, 47-year-old Dean Lissowick was last seen after he was discharged from the Extreme Weather Program at the Scott Mission on Spadena Avenue in Toronto. Authorities believe Dean was murdered on or about April 23rd.

He was never reported missing. And Dean had a difficult life. He experienced mental health problems that led him to living. in the streets and he stopped keeping in touch with his parents. He occasionally sent his mother cards, but she died in 2011. So, you know,

I think here again, we're talking about a person in Dean Lisewick who didn't keep in touch with any of his family. So who was going to miss him to the point where they would report him missing? There's the problem. Yeah. And it's probably why he was. was never reported missing. Dean regularly stayed in Toronto shelters and was a fixture in the

gay village. He did sex work and was known for sticking up for others. His acquaintance, Michel George, told the CBC, if he saw someone being harassed or something like that, he was always the first one to come to the rescue. He was very street savvy. So it just baffled me that he of all people would be a victim. Dean had a daughter, but never met her. His cousin, Julie Piro, said he had plans and goals and wanted to get his life together so he could buy his daughter a bike. Bruce MacArthur had another brush with law enforcement on June 20th, 2016. That day, he asked a man he'd known for several years to meet him in his van in a parking lot. The man got into the back of the van and MacArthur asked him to lie down on top of a fur coat.

He attempted to strangle the man, but the guy escaped and called emergency services. He's known this guy for several years and now he decides he wants to strangle him. You kind of wonder what was going through his mind. Was it a situation that we've seen with other serial killers where, you know, it builds up, it builds up to the point where, you know, they need that release. And the release is killing. Yeah. And this is the person he singled out.

I don't know. It's like working with somebody for so many years, you know, like eight years. And, you know, as you're going up the steps from their studio, you decide at that moment, this is the time. Uh-huh. But then you realize that that person is armed at all times. And you think better of it. and you just leave.

And you say another day. Another day. But it did seem strange. What also was strange was that similar to the 2001 incident, MacArthur went to the police station on his own, was arrested and gave a statement. It's really weird. Again, it's almost like he does these things and then he feels bad about doing them.

Or he knows he's going to get caught because he knew this guy. because in his statement he said, well, this is all just a misunderstanding. And he was released without charges because authorities believed his statement was credible. So I mean,

I think with this one, and maybe with the other one too, because he knew that person. Yeah. I don't know if the person would have known. It was him that wasn't clear in the research. But this guy, I think definitely would have known

and was going to tell the police, most likely, hey, this guy tried to kill me or strangle me. So he thought, I'll hedge it off. Yeah, I'll get the jump on it. And it worked out because he gave, you know, some story and the police believed them. They did a background check on him.

But because his earlier conviction was expunged, nothing came up. And I think that's the problem with that way of doing things. Now, I understand if, you know, you do stuff as a juvenile. Yeah. And that record gets expunged at a certain point. point an officer later faced professional misconduct charges in connection with this incident. And they didn't really expand on that, but I'm assuming, you know, that's going to be after it comes out that, you know, Bruce MacArthur is a serial killer.

Yeah. And he did try to strangle this guy, but the police took his word. But we don't have all all the details. but I'm assuming it was something around that. Like they didn't do the proper due diligence or something along those lines. Now, if it's not found out that he's a serial killer, this guy never gets in trouble. But somebody's got to face the music, of course, once all of that comes to that.

In part two of the Bruce MacArthur episodes, we'll cover the final disappearances in the gay village, how MacArthur was finally caught in his later court proceedings. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, here's a guy who was in trouble with the law, you know, multiple times, got probation. It was expunged. That record was expunged. Talked his way out of a second incident, which sounded pretty serious.

He tried to strangle a man in his van on top of a fur coat. Not sure what purpose the fur coats served, but. maybe it was meant to be like a makeshift bed maybe yeah but i'm all over the place with this mccarthy guy i just wonder what would be different if he didn't turn himself in those few times i don't think anything other than maybe he would have killed more people yeah here's a guy who got married either knew he was gay or realized he was gay at at some point we don't we don't know exactly when. My assumption is when he said that his father suspected that he was gay, that Bruce MacArthur knew from an early age that he was gay, but got married to a woman

for whatever reason. Maybe it was to hide his sexuality. Men did that. Sure, they did. He had kids. So he's having, you know, these relationships with men, but multiple times. feels as though he needs to attack men that he knows. And we've already said it, but some of his victims he knew and he knew quite well. Yeah. Weird. And we'll get more into all of it in episode two. But, you know, obviously we know he's a bad guy.

He did terrible things. He killed, you know, a large number of people. but he's also kind of a strange guy to break down. You know, this this turning yourself in thing is kind of foreign. It is with these serial killers. With serial killers. It's not that it never happens.

It's just not something we see very often. And then it was almost like he may have had some remorse or that was an act that he put on. But any, he goes to see a side. psychiatrist, right? And he's kind of pouring out his feelings. Now he's not saying he's killing people, obviously. But you're getting some insight into, you know, the issues that he had with his dad. There's no doubt that he loved his mom, hated his dad, had issues with his dad. How much of that led to him becoming a serial killer? He had this very strange, inappropriate, sexual experience with an older woman when he was like 10 or 11 years old.

And what did that do to his psyche? It's all stuff that we're going to have to break down, break down. But more to come next week in the second and final part on Bruce MacArthur. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hello, guys.

It's Carrie calling from Grand Junction. I sent you some ends from coffee last week. and you've probably gotten it by now. Hopefully you've eaten it because I'm going to tell you the thing that makes it so special. And so, like, a few years ago, the Enstrom's Toffee people had decided to fully automate their production. And so they had this, like, assembly line thing where they would shoot out the Toffee, and then another machine would, like, layer the chocolate on top of it. And then that year was a catastrophe because none of the chocolate stuck to the Toffee.

It all peeled off. And so everybody had a box of like toffee and chocolate shards, and people were very dissatisfied because usually the chocolate sticks, as you may have noticed. So they looked into it. They did a forensic investigation and they figured out that the thing that creates fingerprints is also the magic in Enstrom's toffee. Finger oil is necessary to keep the chocolate adhered to the toffee.

So they've unautomated the system and now they have humans patting the toffee with their bare hands to flatten it out before the chocolate is applied so that the chocolate will stick. So again, I hope you've eaten it already. But regardless of whose fingers have touched it, it's delicious. Happy holidays. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. So I said last week when I mentioned it, I thought that's who it was. I thought it was Carrie, but I didn't want to say because if I was wrong, I'd have felt bad. but it actually was very good.

I didn't give you any. I actually kept it for myself. Because you liked it. I did. I ate both of the milk chocolate, and my wife ate both of the dark chocolate bars. So it was coffee chocolate? No, it was toffee.

Toffee. Oh, toffee. It was chocolate covered toffee. Oh, and it was really good. Yeah. I thought she was going to have like some type of rat poop story that was going to make me,

like, sorry that I ate. the to coffee. Why didn't I give it to Gibby? No, it was very good. And you don't know whose fingers touched it though. But like she said, regardless of whose fingers touched it, it's very good chocolate. Wait a time to find a picture to show you who touched it. Hi, this is Ashley. I've called a couple times. I'm over in Batavia, but I just finished your Patrick Perry episode from like 2019. and someone left a voicemail with a perky gobble. And I'm so glad that I'm alone in the cat shelter I work at because the laugh I let out would have probably terrified my entire staff of coworkers.

That was the best thing I've heard ever. And she was so nonchalant about it. It just went straight in to just continue talking. Anyways, keep your head on the swivel. So I do remember that. It was funny. I thought when she started that voicemail, she was going to say that I made some comment

about how 2020 was going to be a great year. Yeah. Because I know I said that on Patreon. I know. And people still bring it up. And obviously, I couldn't have known that 2020 was going to be the year of COVID and change everything.

Tough prediction. That's why I make no more predictions about how the next year is going to go because you just don't know. You don't. That's true. But thanks for the voicemails. We appreciate them.

We do. And that's it, buddy, for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.