True Crime All The Time - Bruce McArthur Part 2

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Bruce McArthur is a grandfather who worked as a landscaper and a mall Santa in the off-season. For nearly eight years, McArthur lived a secret life as a serial killer, primarily targeting men in The Gay Village, an LGBTQ+-friendly area of Toronto.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the Canadian serial killer Bruce McArthur. In part two of the Bruce McArthur episodes, we’ll cover the final disappearances in the Gay Village, how McArthur was finally caught, and his later court proceedings.  Rumors about the missing men and a possible serial killer in Toronto’s Gay Village started in 2010. McArthur had a habit of targeting South Asian or Middle Eastern men who struggled with their sexuality. He knew many of his victims, which meant there was a connection to him; the police just had to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 415 of the true crime all the time podcast i'm mike ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime mike gibson givy how are you hey i'm doing good about you i'm doing great you and i just finished up our weekly um patreon thing that we put out every week and yeah it's kind of shocking that we are as close to christmas as we are kind of snuck up yep went very quickly did so this is officially our last episode of the year. Yeah. Gotta wait till next year to hear more.

Yeah. We're taking the last weekend of the year off, which we normally do somewhere around Christmas just to, you know, recharge the batteries and get ready for a new year. Which I'm excited for. I always have that recovery period after the wrestling match of the festivist. Yes. So, yeah. You're black and blue.

Yeah. Your family goes at it pretty hard. We get all those pent up all the years worth of anger. That's right. Out on each other. Yeah. Well, let's go ahead and do our Patreon shoutouts. We had Muhammad Sheik.

Hey, Muhammad. Katie McCormick. Hey, Katie from the McCormick Spice. Family. Family. Savannah McCoy. Hey, Savannah. Stay away from the, uh, uh,

Um, half-hiltz. Mike Oxmole. Hey, Oxmole. Tracy Robbins. There's Tracy. Leah Levine. Levine. I like that.

Charlie Ward. Hey, Charlie. Who won a Heisman back in the 80s or 90s. I was thinking that. And then played for the Raiders or something, right? I don't know about that. He played basketball for the Knicks. Did he really?

Yeah, he was actually won a Heisman as a quarterback, but ended up playing professional basketball. He's like me. He's one of those guys that, Did lettered in all. Multi-talented. Yeah. Olivia.

What's going on? Olivia. Allison Hardwick. Hey, Allison. And last but not least, Holly Lewis. Thanks, Holly. And the news. Oh, nice there.

I don't know if you're going to go. That or if you're going to go like Clark, you know, Lewis and Clark. Then if we go back into the ball. This week, we selected Rosalind Rainey. Hey, thanks, Rosal. Yeah, I appreciate the new Patreon support, the continued support. we also had a great PayPal donation from Anne Kelly. Well, thanks, Ann.

So Gibbs, right now we have a brand new episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved where we're actually headed to Norway to talk about an unidentified woman who has become known as the EZoll woman. In 1970, the burned remains of a woman were found in a remote area of Norway's Eadsdalen valid. And over 50 years later, they still have not identified this woman. And obviously, don't know exactly what happened to her, if somebody did something to her. But we get into all the details.

Well, I'm excited. You know, I have a deep love for Norway. I know you do. Ever since sixth grade. So, you know, I'm excited to do this story. Would you like to expand on that? Because it was very cryptic. Oh, well, you know, as mentioned on Patreon.

Right, which most of these people are not going to have heard. Well, that's true. Unless you jump over right now. But, no, at sixth grade, we had to represent a country. And my country was Norway. And so we had like the, you know, field Olympics. And we had to do their customary dance, you know, wear the traditional like outfit of the country oh man if i had a video of a sixth grade gibby

dancing to some norwegian song with like clogs on it it would i could make a fortune it was good time all right buddy are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time i am ready we're on to part two and the last part on serial killer bruce mccArthur in part one, we covered the police investigation and how McArthur was first identified in connection with missing men. In part two, we'll cover the final disappearances in the gay village, how MacArthur was finally caught, and his later court proceedings. On April 16, 2017, 44-year-old Salim Essen was last seen near Young and Bloor Streets

in Toronto. the police believe he was killed on or about to stay. And, you know, we said that multiple times about victims in episode one. And I do think it's an interesting statement because it just shows you that, you know, this was a predator who struck and killed immediately or very quickly. He didn't toy around. No. This was not a person who, you know, took his victim somewhere for days and kept them or, you know, anything like that.

Essen was reported missing by a friend on April 30th. Salim Essen was born in Istanbul and grew up in Turkey where he graduated from university. His older brothers said he was unhappy as a gay man in Turkey. Salim spent several years in Australia and moved to Canada in 2013 to marry his boyfriend. Their relationship didn't last, but Salim stayed in Toronto. And we're also hearing another common theme. You have some men here who were gay, but were living in countries or parts of the world where it was extremely hard. hard, nearly impossible to be an openly gay man.

Probably somewhat dangerous too. Very dangerous. And so I think what a lot of these individuals did was, you know, they looked for areas of the world. They looked for countries. They looked for cities where they felt as though they could be themselves. He was described as friendly and curious. He wanted to learn new things. things and travel. Salim worked as a cafe manager and enjoyed studying philosophy in his free time.

And I know, you know, you study a lot of philosophy. I do. In your free time. Love it. Some people call me the philosopher. Some people call you the BS artist. I don't know how different some of those things are. There's a blurred line. That's a very fine line, right? Salim was once a client at the St. Stephen's Community House in Toronto, which provides classes, counseling, and job placement services for new immigrants. He completed a training program and volunteered peer support. Richard Kikot, who met Salim through the peer training program, said that at the time of his disappearance, he was confused, afraid, and believed something bad was going to happen to him. It's a terrible feeling to have.

Well, it does seem like a worrisome combination, especially, you know, being afraid and feeling as though something bad was going to happen. Okay. Did that just come from nowhere? Or were there some things that had happened that, you know, had instilled that fear in him? Two months later on June 26, 2017, 49-year-old Andrew Kinsman was last seen in Toronto's Cabbage Town neighborhood. Kinsman was a highly intelligent child chess prodigy, according to the CBC. His sister said he had a gruff demeanor, but he cared about social justice issues and wanted to help others.

And I'm going to be honest with you, I've been fascinated with, you know, chess. Yeah. I know how to play chess. I'm not very good at it. But, you know, these people who are considered prodigies, I guess I'm fascinated by any prodigy, but chess in particular, you know, when you think about like a Bobby Fisher, right, who as a kid was beating like these adults who were considered to be amazing chess players. Right. Yeah. It just, blows my mind that somebody's, I guess, mind gets to the level where it works that way. Just to think, you know, 64 squares and all these pieces move different directions. And you're always thinking, you know, multiple steps ahead, just the concentration level. Is there 64 squares?

Yeah. I am really shocked that you knew that. Do you play a lot of chess? Yeah, at a high level. Okay. He enjoyed volunteering. tearing, baking, and camping, he spent decades working with the Toronto HIV-AIDS network and was involved in the city's LGBTQ community. Andrew was the superintendent of his apartment building in Cabbage Town. He had an elderly cat, so his friends were concerned when his cat was left alone for a full day after the annual pride event. And we know how much, you know, people love their animals.

We talk about it a lot. Some people love their animals more than they like some humans, you know. Not a bad thing. But if he was really attached to this cat, you know, it's an elderly cat, it needs taken care of, okay, to leave the cat alone for a full day, what does that mean to someone who really knows him? And I think, you know, that's what you're looking at in some of the cases, right, that we do. someone does something that's out of the ordinary for them, but what does it mean? Sometimes, you know, friends are concerned immediately.

Others, not so much. But it sounds like to me in this situation, this was a concerning thing. Yeah, sounds like he had a pretty set routine and he didn't follow it and it caused concern. Yeah. On June 29th, 2017, Andrew's neighbor reported him missing. the police would later say this was critical to their investigation because Andrew was reported missing within 72 hours they were able to get surveillance video showing Andrew getting into a Dodge caravan outside his apartment building and we talked about it in episode one right a number of

people went missing they weren't reported missing though for some time due to various circumstances, well, what does that do to an investigation? No, obviously, the later you get started after someone is thought to have last been seen, the harder it would be to, you know, gather evidence, tractor movements, all of that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's definitely going to hamper the process. The police searched Kinsman's home and found the name Bruce written on his calendar on June 26th. a detective cross-referenced a list of vehicles that matched the description with owners named Bruce.

There were only five matches. And Bruce MacArthur was one of them. The other four men were eliminated because none of their vehicles had chrome sighting, like the one in the surveillance video. So, again, this is fascinating kind of old school police work. right you've got some surveillance footage of a car all right let's start looking at how many cars of of that make and model are out there they find this name bruce right let's cross reference the cars with owners with the first name bruce just good detective force it really is now is it

tough is it hard is it painstaking i'm sure it is but that's how a lot of of cases are solved. Yeah, you got to do all that legwork to get to a good spot. What is really sounds like they did. In July 2017, Bruce met a man named Sean Cribbon on a dating app. Sean went to MacArthur's apartment for sex. He agreed to BDSM role plan, but MacArthur did not respect his limits or his safe word. According to the Toronto Star, MacArthur cut off Sean's airway with his hand, his genitals, and by sitting on his chest. Sean said, that's the only memory I have from it. Just this overall, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't breathe.

Now, I think I said in episode one, I don't have a vast knowledge of the BDSM world. But the one thing I do know is that it often involves a safe word. And, you know, if you don't respect a safe word, okay, somebody is in for a bad time. Yeah, it's a problem. What's your safe word? Is it Bosco still? Yeah, Bosco. Why you would know that is beyond me.

I do my research. But, you know, here again, let's think about the position that this person, Sean, was in. You know, if part of your sexual desires involve this role playing BDSM, you know, are you tied up? I think it often involves that being restrained. You're in a very vulnerable position or situation. Oh, absolutely. You've got to be in a vulnerable situation. And if you're not okay with that, I think your anxiety would be pretty high.

Well, I think a lot of people are okay with being in the vulnerable situation. What they're not okay with or what they wouldn't be okay with is the other person taking advantage of them being in that vulnerable situation. True. Yeah. And doing things that they're not comfortable with, whether that's something sexual or something, you know, more heinous like, you know, this guy trying to essentially strangulate Sean.

Sean was also drugged with GHB and lost consciousness. He believes he survived because MacArthur's roommate came back unexpectedly. And I can imagine, you know, roommate walks in. It's going to be kind of a strange sight. You're going to have to explain what's going on unless the roommate knows what you're to. Yeah, I remember the first time I shared that room with you and I came back early from dinner and you were in your diaper outfit. You're really reaching now at this point. Now, if you just had furry costume, okay, maybe people, maybe people would have believed you.

I couldn't even get that out with a straight face. Sean told the BBC in a different interview, when I came around, I saw him standing looking at me, he never made any reference to the fact I'd lost 20 minutes. I took it as a bad date. And, you know, for me, I'm taking that to mean that he didn't think MacArthur was trying to kill him at the time. I think later on, when he finds out who this guy is, it's probably pretty easy to see that he got lucky. A detective later contacted him, and told him they found an image of him on MacArthur's hard drive. He'd put a hood over my head and duct tape over my eyes. His hand was over a pipe jammed up against my throat and he took a photograph.

That happened during the 20 minutes. I mean, that's some real scary stuff. It is. And then you'd want to know where was that headed? Well, I think it was headed in the worst possible direction. if the roommate doesn't come home. I think MacArthur kills this guy. I agree with you.

A GHB dealer identified as Joey, told the BBC about visiting MacArthur's apartment to consensually use the drug and have sex with him. He said he had some G for both of us. It started to feel real creepy. He was asking me odd questions. Like, was I close to my family? Do I have brothers and sisters?

In hindsight, he was probably seeing if anybody would miss me, if I went missing. I told him, I'm not feeling well. So I'm just going to go. There was no life in his eyes. He looked evil to me. So here's a guy who really got a bad sense of the situation. And probably luckily for him, he did because he was able to make that decision to get out of there. Which we know

many people did not have that option. Yeah, never got to that point. On August 14th, 2017, the police established a task force called Project Prison to investigate the disappearances of Salim Esson

and Andrew Kinsman. On September 6th, the Toronto police began tracking Bruce MacArthur's movements. On the 8th, the police used MacArthur's name in their request to seal a production order for the service provider Bell Canada. And a production order, I guess in Canada is just an order compelling a person or company to provide records, right?

They're trying to get phone records. On the 14th, the police obtained a tracking warrant for two of MacArthur's vehicles. On September 16th, MacArthur sold his maroon Dodge Caravan to Dom's auto parts outside Toronto. And I think if you're the police, you have to be looking at that is kind of a telltale sign. Oh, yeah. I mean, could it be that this guy

just happened to make the decision that he wanted to sell this Dodge Caravan? Well, sure, it could be. But could it also be that he knew there was most likely evidence in it and he just wanted to get rid of it. He wanted to end his connection with it. Very possible.

On October 3rd, investigators went to Dom's auto parts looking for the Dodge. Auto shop owner Dominic Veteer confirmed Bruce sold the car to him in September. The vehicle had 243,000 kilometers on it and the shop bought it for $125. Wow. When the police showed up on October 3rd, they asked for surveillance footage and towed the vehicle. Now, the shop workers said they never saw any blood in the vehicle, but the police still needed to do a detailed forensic investigation. Yeah, because sometimes, even though you don't see any blood, doesn't mean it's not there. Yeah, we've definitely heard of that before.

On October 24th, the police obtained a production order for data from the user squirt on a gay hookup site. They have reason to believe. MacArthur, Kinsman, Essen, and Navaratnam had accounts on the site. And we kind of talked about this a little bit in episode one. This is one of the ways that they linked Bruce to some of these men. On October 2nd, 2017, investigators obtained tracking warnings for two cell phone numbers used by MacArthur. The warrant application stated that the police were developing a plan to invite McCartner. or to the station for an interview as a person of interest in hopes it would incite him to reach out

to another person or take actions that could help locate Andrew Kinsman. I can see how that could happen. Sometimes people make phone calls after their interview. Or maybe they might get so scared that they would, you know, go to a location where a person's being held or move a body or any number of things. That's true. On November 8th, MacArthur officially became a suspect in Kinsman's murder after traces of his blood were found in the van. Salim Esson's DNA was also found in the van.

So, you know, obviously these were big breaks, right? In the case, now, if you're thinking trial down the road, you know, what is a defense attorney going to have to put out there to counteract this type of? evidence. Well, he knew the guys. They had a relationship, sexual relationship. And maybe they had, you know, sacks in the van. Down by the river? Down by the river. The following day, a mobile surveillance unit restarted covert surveillance of MacArthur. On November 17, 2017, cadaver dogs searched the area behind 53 Mallory Crescent, a house where MacArthur stored landscaping equipment, but there were no results. On December 5th, the police obtained a general warrant to covertly enter MacArthur's apartment, to clone data from his devices. Investigators did enter the apartment, but had to leave

quickly because an unnamed person was on the way home. On the seventh, police returned to MacArthur's apartment for just over and out, but had to leave because MacArthur was on his way home. The police were able to obtain swabs of an orange stain on MacArthur's pillow and a metal bar wrapped with tape. They also found posted notes with website account names and passwords. I know that's how you have always kept your account names and passwords. I've told you repeatedly it's not a very safe way to do it, especially when you used to tape them, you know, just on the side of your monitor where everybody could see them. These were not business sites. These were clearly personal sites. This was back in the days when companies didn't really track your internet usage. Oh, yeah. So much at work. Or they didn't have the ability to block you from getting to certain websites. The good old days. You never knew what you'd see when you passed by Gibby's cubicle. Just keep walking if you don't like what you see. When looking through MacArthur's computer data,

investigators found over 100 photos of Andrew Kinsman. Some of the photos dated back to 2007. In the middle of the investigation during a December 8th news conference, the Toronto police told the public they had no evidence of a serial killer in the gay village. So why would they say that? Yeah, I mean, maybe they didn't want to scare people. I mean, obviously, they thought MacArthur had done some things, right?

They were keeping an eye on him. He was in their crosshairs, but maybe they didn't think he had done enough to be considered a serial killer. I don't know. On December 11, 2017, the police installed a hidden camera to capture the garage door of 53 Mallory Crescent,

the house belonging to MacArthur's, landscaping client. On January 17, 2018, the police found critical evidence, linking MacArthur to Selim Essen and Andrew Kinsman's disappearances. Photos of the two men and other

victims were found on MacArthur's devices. All of the men were deceased in these photos and posed in a fur coat or with the murder weapon wrapped around their throat. But Carthur attempted to delete these photos, but they were uncovered through forensic analysis. So there's a couple of things here.

One, we've talked about many times, which is just because you think you've deleted something doesn't mean the police won't be able to recover it. The second for me is, you know, not only has he committed a number of murders, but for some reason he felt compelled. to take pictures of these men after they were dead. I mean, this is bombshell type evidence, right? That you're creating. It's not that you're leaving hair behind or, and you don't know about it.

You know you're taking these pictures. You also know you don't have to. But you're still doing it. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like he was compelled. Additionally, photos of the surviving assault victim from, 2016 were also found on MacArthur's devices. In some of them, the man was wearing a fur coat that looked

similar to the one the deceased victims were wearing. And remember, we talked about a fur coat in episode one. He had a fur coat laid out in his van and attempted, I think, to kill someone in the van, but that person got away. So there's something with this fur coat. Investigators, also saw that on April 7, 2017, MacArthur emailed himself a photo of Scanda Navaratna, the first known victim. On January 18, 2018, Bruce MacArthur was arrested and charged with two counts of first degree murder

for the deaths of Andrew Kinsman and Salim Esson. Detective Sergeant Hank Insinga told the public, is quoted by the CBC, we believe he's responsible for the deaths of Mr. Essen and Mr. Kinsman, and we believe he is responsible for the deaths of other men who have yet to be identified. Okay. So they came out and they said, you know, we don't have a serial killer in the gay village or we don't have evidence. I think at this point, that has changed. If you're saying we're charging him with two murders and we believe that he's killed other men.

But then you're talking about a serial killer. You are. Idsinga revealed MacArthur and Kinsman had a sexual relationship for some time. But police didn't know if MacArthur had a relationship of any kind with Salim Esson. MacArthur was arrested while attempting to murder another victim. Wow. On the morning of January 18th, the man named John met him at the apartment. They connected on a dating act in the summer of 2017 and had sex several times before this.

MacArthur asked John if anyone knew he was coming over. And John said no. MacArthur said he wanted to try something different. MacArthur handcuffed John and put a leather bag over his head. John was able to get the bag off. and MacArthur attempted to tape his mouth shut. Because MacArthur was under surveillance, officers saw a man go into the building

and went to the apartment to make the arrest. John was found restrained in the bedroom. So, you know, here again, when this guy finds out later, the full extent of what Bruce MacArthur had done, I mean, how lucky does he have to feel? Oh, I think he has to feel extremely lucky. That he really does.

dodged probably death. Probably very thankful when they came and knocked on the door that day. You know, but I also talked about putting yourself or allowing yourself to be put in a very compromising position. Well, you know, being handcuffed, being restrained. It doesn't get a whole lot more compromising than that. You would know. Yeah, the difference is mine's all been recreational.

Yours has been law enforcement. mandated. As we mentioned, forensic analysis showed that MacArthur had a folder of photos for each of the eight known victims. He also downloaded photos of John from social media and saved them in a ninth folder. There was also a photo of John on his bed. By all indications, it seems like MacArthur intended for John to be the next victim. So not only is he killing a large number of men. He's really kind of keeping a treasure trove of evidence, pointing to his involvement with these men.

And in some cases, really pointing to the fact that he killed these men. Sure. I mean, how do you get a photo of them deceased if you weren't involved with them dying? John is Middle Eastern, like several of the victims. he's married and kept his sexuality secret from his family and friends. And it does seem like there were a lot of these guys kept their sexuality secret from either wives or family. You know, is that something that MacArthur looked for?

And he was asking these guys, does anybody know you're here? Do you keep in contact with your family? There's no doubt he was trying to gate. whether or not some of these individuals would be missed. Yeah, I mean, it sound like the prime screening questions for what would make the best victim for him. On the day of his arrest, investigators also said they secured five properties connected to MacArthur, including his apartment, a house connected to a friend in Scarborough, a property connected to this same friend in Maddock, a house in Midtown, Toronto, where MacArthur

worked as a landscaper, and another address in Toronto. So he didn't own five properties, but obviously he had some association with all five, one of them being his apartment. One of these properties was the house on Mallory Crescent that had been under surveillance. The couple who owned the home went away for week. weekends in the spring and summer. Bruce stored his equipment here and did house sitting. While the couple was away, MacArthur had keys to their house. And it was this home, Gibbs, that was the location of most of his criminal activity. And there's two thoughts that I have about that. And number one, it's fairly smart. Right. That's a, that's a better idea than to bring these men back to your

apartment. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then the other thing was that, okay, if you're the people that own this house, eventually it's going to come out that this man who you trusted to kind of house sit was killing people inside your home while you were away. Not a good situation to be in. No, and I would think for some, you know, it's going to be hard to continue to live there. You know, after learning about that. In the case of Abdul Basir Fasiez, his abandoned vehicle was found just about a kilometer from this house.

On one occasion, the owners returned home and found the dark stain on their bedroom floor. MacArthur told them that he spilled a coat and tried to clean it. Homeowner Karen Fraser recalled that MacArthur once brought victim Majid Cyan

to the house, and she had seen him working with younger Middle Eastern men. She told the CBC that MacArthur had wonderful clients, and he was kind and generous to them. He was a cheerful, kind grandfather and made her laugh with his client stories. The other personality. The one that he wanted others to see. Yes.

MacArthur was questioned after he was arrested. He claimed he had not seen Andrew Kinsman since December 2000. When he viewed a photo of Salim Essen, he said he looked like a man he randomly met and befriended in 2017, but he didn't remember his name. He said he picked him up in the area of the gay village and took him back to his apartment. They had sex and the man left. And we talked about this just a little bit ago, right? This is, you would think, going to be kind of central in. any type of defense for Bruce MacArthur.

Yes, I was active on, you know, these dating apps or these dating websites. I had sex with a lot of different men, but that doesn't mean I killed them. No, it doesn't. Now, you're going to have to explain why you have photos of their dead bodies and things like that. The police executed the search warrant on the Mallory Crescent House from January 21st to the 26th. they removed plastic crates and bins, a suitcase, and a hacksaw. Search warrants from January 2018 identified Sarush Mahmoudi and Majid Kayan as two more victims. On January 29th, 2018, MacArthur was charged with three more counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of Kayan, Mahmoudi, and Dean Lisewit.

the police revealed they found dismembered remains of at least three people in the bottom of large planners at the house on Mallory Crescent. And this was the first time. The police called MacArthur a serial kill. They're finally coming to realize what he's done. Or they're finally willing to admit to the public. One or the other. But think about, you know, they find a hacksaw. and then it's discovered that the remains of three people were buried in these planners

at the house of these people that he kind of house set for, where he stored some of his equipment. Yeah, you're going to have to sell that house. You're not going to be able to live in that house. Also, you're going to take a beating on that house because nobody's going to pay what it's worth. No, not with the rumors going around about it. it. And I don't know about you. I go back to this, you know, spilling of coke on a, on a rug or a carpet. I think most of us have done that. Oh, I spill stuff all the time. You do. You are clumsy as shit.

Sprite in my, and then boss's car. But think about a Coke. Okay, it's dark liquid. But, you know, if you get on it, you can clean that up. Yeah, most cases, sure. I mean, is it the same as a kind of a, kind of a large blood pool. And I would say, no, that's a little harder to clean up than a spilled coat. But again, you have to come up with something. You can't tell the truth. You know, I murdered someone in your home and, you know, this is their blood. Well, you could tell the truth, but it wouldn't go well for you. Yeah, I guess you could, but not if you're into self-preservation. In January 2018, the Alliance for South Asian AIDS Prevention issued an open letter calling for the Toronto police service to review whether the racial or sexual backgrounds of the men affected the resources

or effort put into investigating their disappearances. The group also demanded an external review. The letter stated, it's saddening and unacceptable that it took the disappearance of Andrew Kinsman to reopen public interest in the cases of the missing South Asian and Middle Eastern men. So basically this letter was suggesting that it wasn't until Andrew Kinsman disappeared, that the disappearances were finally taken seriously. The letter said that a different standard of justice for racialized and LGBTQ plus people is the reality of our citizens. It's a reality of our city and profits. And gives how many times has this come up in the cases that we've done where, you know,

a charge is levied against the police that they didn't do as much as they should have. They didn't put, you know, the resources into the investigation that they should have because of the backgrounds of the victims or the people who had gone missing. Yeah, I think it comes up a lot more frequent than most would realize. Yeah, or like to believe. Yes. You know, whether it's race, whether it's, you know, where someone hails from, or whether it's what someone does for a living.

We have seen pretty concrete examples that you have kind of proven out, that police didn't do what they might have done. if the person was someone else. Now, I'm not saying that happens all the time, but it does happen. Toronto police spokesman Megan Gray said investigators worked diligently throughout Project Houston to find the missing men. In a February 2018 interview with CBC, lead investigator detective Sergeant Hake Idzinga was asked if the police considered a possible serial killer during Project

Houston, which was in operation from 2012 to 2014. He responded, to be accused of not considering that is in effect not accurate. We're human beings. Of course, are we thinking, is that a possibility? He said at the time, there was no evidence of foul play involved in the disappearances, adding, I wish we had that evidence in 2013. I wish we could have stopped it in 2013. And I'm sure that's a truthful statement. Would they have liked to have stopped it before many more people were killed? Absolutely. And I think, you know, part of his statement does shed some light on, okay, yeah, was there talk about a possible serial killer?

Was that part of the thinking? Yes. But when they didn't even have evidence of foul play in the disappearances, it's pretty hard to come out. and say, hey, I think we have a serial killer here. Yeah. Because we don't even know what happened to these individuals. That's true. But once the evidence is obtained, it's pretty easy.

And then you can change your statement then. Yeah. On February 8th, 2018, the police announced that the remains of three more people were found in planners at the Mallory Crescent House, bringing the total to six victims. One set of remains was identified as Andrew Kinsman. On February 16th, police documents identified Scandaraw Navratan, and Abdul Basir Fasie, as two more victims of MacArthur. On February 23rd, MacArthur was charged with the first-degree murder of Navratum,

after authorities confirmed his remains were among those found in the planets. Sirush Mahmoudis remains were also identified. So, you know, first of all, It doesn't seem as though he went to a great extent to get rid of these remains. Yes. Sounds like he dismembered them. He buried them in planters. Did he think anyone was going to find them in the planters?

No, probably not. But could he have done a better job of, you know, hiding them, really getting kind of rid of them? And I would say, yes. I'm glad he didn't. No, but he could have. Yeah. On March 5th, 2018, the police announced they discovered a seventh set of human remains in the planners at the Mallory Crescent home. During a news conference later that day, the police released a photo of a deceased man found on MacArthur's computer.

This was kind of a last resort to try to figure out the man's identity. So police are finding remains of people. that they're linking to MacArthur, but they're also finding pictures of dead people on his computer. Which has to be strange. Well, it has to make the police wonder, how many people did this guy really kill? Because we only know about the ones that, you know,

we've tied to him. We found remains. But you've got pictures on the computer. At least one of the individuals not identified was dead in the picture. in the picture. I'm sure there was many more pictures on there. Could he have killed others but just didn't take a picture of their body after death? Strong possibility. Well, it's got to be a big question, right? What's the true number? What's the count?

How many murders did this man commit? On April 4th, 2018, the police obtained a production order for MacArthur's probation records from 2003. In their application, the police noted their efforts to track MacArthur's movements throughout his adulthood were hindered by his ex-wife and sons unwillingness to talk to the police. It's going to make the police think they know something about it. Yeah, I could see how police would think that, you know, the other thing is, you know, do you really want your ex-husband to be a serial killer? Do you want your dad to be a serial killer? Because what's that going to do to your life? Well, maybe some of our listeners might, want that, you know, because they're love for true crime.

Might want their exes to be found out to be serial killers. Or maybe not. Maybe not. Now, maybe they hate them so much that they want it because of that. That's a good thing. But you think about now you're the ex-wife of a serial killer. Yeah. You're the son of a serial killer.

So are you really wanting to help with the investigation all that much? Maybe not. Maybe not. On April 11, 2018, MacArthur was charged with the murder of Abdul Basir Faisi, bringing the total to seven charges against him. Faisi's remains had been identified, along with the remains of Salim Essen and Dean Lissowicz.

In an April 12 search warrant, the police wrote they had no evidence to suggest anyone assisted MacArthur with the murders. On April 16th, MacArthur was charged with the murder of Karushna Kumar Kanagratna, whose remains had been identified.

He was first identified as the deceased man in the photo. That was released in March. On May 7, 2018, after the ground thawed, the police sent out cadaver dog teams to investigate 100 properties linked to

MacArthur's landscaping work. And we haven't even talked about that. No, we haven't. You know, this guy's a landscaper. He's working for all kinds of people. You know, could he have buried a body part here, there, you know, scattered them over a number of different properties where he was doing landscaping. Yeah, probably pretty easily. It's kind of a macabre to think about, but that your landscaper is using your property to dispose.

of their victims, the police completed their inch by inch search of MacArthur's apartment on May 15th. They collected over 1,800 pieces of evidence in what was the largest forensic examination in Toronto police history. So, I mean, this was absolutely huge investigation, but it had to be. Right. Here's a man who was linked to the deaths and thought to be a serial killer. of at least seven people. Yeah. Possibly eight people.

When searching MacArthur's bedroom, the police found duct tape, a glove, rope, Zick ties, a black bungee cord and syringes. They also found Dean Lissowick's beaded necklace,

Salim Essin's personal notebook, and Scanda Navaratum's bracelet in the apartment. That's a pretty good find. Yeah, I mean, obviously there's a lot of stuff here that, you know, people would say, well, I have that stuff in my house.

And I do. I have duct tape. I've got gloves. I think I even have some zip ties. I probably got bungee cords. I know. I keep all those in a nice little bag in my trunk. Yeah, I keep them in like a toolbox in separate areas.

They're not like in a to go bag. Oh. Like they are for you. But I don't know when I'm going to need duct tape or zip ties or whatever. but when you start finding known items of the victims, okay, could you make a case that, oh, well, the person left it here, we had a sexual relationship. Yes, the defense could try to make that case, but the evidence is mounting. And it's mounting pretty high at this point.

I think the prosecutor would be happy with all this and obviously the defense would be getting really nervous. Yeah, I would agree with you. But, you know, I also, I don't understand why so many killers feel the need to keep these trophies. I get it. They use them. They get some kind of thrill. they're able to relive through them, what they've done. But you are really condemning yourself if any of this stuff is found.

Taking a big chance. A huge risk. But is risk part of the equation for some of these people? Oh, for sure. It's what gets their heart beating. I was kind of going to go the other way and say, well, if they were so worried about it. They wouldn't do what they're doing in the first place. But, yeah, maybe there's a little bit of a both. That's true. Yeah. You know, maybe the risk, the excitement is part of what they're

doing. The fur coat used to pose the victims after death was found in a hidden compartment of MacArthur's van. On June 1st, 2018, K-9 units completed their search of 100 properties, including the Mallory Crescent home in July 2018. The Toronto Police launched the service's first ever dedicated missing persons unit after facing public scrutiny over how the missing men's cases were handled. So some good comes out of it. Well, some good came out of it in this instance. You would hope that it would carry forward.

Yeah. That, you know, nothing like that would ever happen again. on July 4th, the police began excavating the forested ravine behind the Mallory Crescent home. And man, what are you thinking if you're these people that own this home? First of all, they've probably dug up the whole place. Yeah. It looks like they just have like thousands of moles. Yeah.

Probably in the yard. You got packs of cadaver dogs that have searched the whole place. They're digging. Now they're excavating behind the house. I think I'd be on the phone with my agent. Hey, this house you sold me. I'm not sure if I really want to stay here anymore. Well, but what choice do you have?

You can't sell a house that's being checked for body parts and, and they're every day finding a new body part. Yeah. It's not going to, you're not going to have a great. That's like the scene from stepbrothers when they're trying to sell the house and they're doing everything they can to scare away the. potential buyers. Oh, those are some great scenes right there. On July 5th, the police confirmed they found more human remains in the area.

Back in May, canine units indicated human body parts were buried there. So this is the excavation behind the house. The excavation ended on July 12th. Investigators revealed they found human remains nearly every day of the search. On July 12th, on July 12th, investigators revealed they found human remains nearly every day of the search. On July 12th, the excavation, 20th, the remains found in the ravine were identified as Majid Kayan. So the search lasts a week, let's say seven days or so. Every day, they're finding human remains. Now, it makes it sound like these were all remains of Kayan.

So does that just mean his remains were scattered all over the property? That's what it sounds like. during a news conference lead investigator idzinga said they had no reason to believe they would find the remains of any more victims at any of the properties they searched and i don't know gibbs if that was based off of all of the work that cadaver dogs had did they probably felt pretty confident that they had found everything they were going to find yeah it did check a hundred properties it's a lot of properties it is on october 22nd 2018 MacArthur waived his right to a preliminary inquiry and was ordered to stand trial.

On November 30th, a judge announced his trial would begin January 6th, 2020 and would likely take three to four months. So that's over a year. And I get it. Both sides need time to repair and all that. But it's a long time. It is a long time. We often see that in big trials, though.

But this trial would never happen. On January 29th, 2019, Bruce MacArthur pleaded guilty to eight counts of first-degree murder. His guilty plea resulted in an automatic life sentence. And why would he do that? Well, maybe he just wants to go ahead and get the clock ticking. Get the clock ticking on what? At the end of his life? But does a life sentence always mean life sentence?

Not in Canada. It doesn't. I would hope in this case it would. But I don't know. had this thought that I get it there's so much evidence against you but you're not going to get more than a life sentence in Canada right so why not roll the dice maybe he just was tired of it all didn't want to sit through a trial I don't know on February 4th and 5th the crown read a 36 page statement of facts during the sentencing hearing which revealed shocking details to the public

The murders involved sexual assault or forcible confinement, and MacArthur murdered victims via ligature strangulation. Afterwards, he engaged in post-offence rituals, such as posing the victims and dressing them. He took hundreds of photos of dead victims with a rope around their neck, cinched with a bar. So weird. And the victims were posed news.

Some had cigars in their mouth, shaved, or with a fur coat and hat. Some photos were taken in his bedroom or vehicle. The murderers were planned and deliberate, producing a uniformity in the way they were executed. MacArthur dismembered the victims and buried them at his client's property. He kept souvenirs from the victims, such as jewelry and no books, and kept digital files of all the victims categorizing them into subfolders. That is so shocking. But is it?

I mean, we've seen serial killers, you know, keep so much incriminating stuff. Now, I think this digital file thing is a little different for me. You know, he's got photos.

He's got who, knows what else in these files on his computer kept in subfolders. Yeah. Like we would keep spreadsheets or, you know, monthly expenses. But it's such a risk to have that on there. I mean, you can encrypt it, I guess, but most of these agencies, police department, IT people, they're pretty darn smart. They know how to break a lot of that encryption stuff. Yeah, I mean, I think when you do that stuff for a living, yeah, you get pretty good at it. The police also found a metal bar and a rope used in the murders, which signaled MacArthur's desire to keep the weapons despite their incriminating nature.

And it did sound Gibbs to me as though he was almost using like this rope and the bar as kind of a grot. Yeah. And maybe twisting the bar to tighten and strangle his vizabeth. victims. On February 8th, 2019, Bruce MacArthur was sentenced to life with no parole for at least 25 years. The judge noted it's highly unlikely. MacArthur will ever walk free. And this guy should never walk free. Oh, he should not. But we've talked about it, right? Canada's a little more lenient when it comes to sentencing sometimes than, than we are here in the U.S. But I think when you have

have a guy like Bruce MacArthur. And the evidence is so strong. And the murder count is so high. I get it. He may come up for parole in 25 years, but the parole board is going to look at what he did and say, no way, buddy. Yeah. You ain't getting out.

You're staying right where you're at. Or they're going to give him a day pass and let him go in to town shopping. I don't know. We've seen some different types of things, right, in other kinds. countries. But I don't think that will happen with MacArthur. The judge told MacArthur that his crimes were pure evil, but cited his guilty plea, which spared the victim's families from going through a traumatic trial in his age as his reason to grant parole. So apparently the judge could have said no parole. Now, I think it is important to point out, right, the guy was in his 70s. So maybe that was

part of the, it's highly unlikely MacArthur will ever walk free because he's probably not going to make it 25 more years. Yeah. Unlikely. You know, but this sparing the families from going through a trial, you know, I think for some families, that could be a huge thing to not have to hear all the really horrible details of what happened to their loved ones. Now, they're could be some families or family members who think, no, I don't want to let this guy off to hook. I want him to face the prosecution. The judge noted that MacArthur showed no remorse, adding Bruce MacArthur is a sexual predator and killer who lured his victims and ended up killing them for his own warped and sick gratification. Spot on. Yeah, I think it is for a lot of killers.

after the proceedings were over, Toronto's LGBT community accused the police of not doing enough to catch the killer. Chief Mark Saunders said they might have caught MacArthur sooner. If residents of the gay village were more forthcoming, we knew that people were missing. And we knew we didn't have the right answers, but nobody was coming to us with anything. And, you know, this was a statement that was not well received. I bet. I mean, and it sounds pretty harsh, right? Hey, we could have caught him, but nobody in the community came forward to help him.

Yeah. Now, is there a reason that, that some people in that community would not want to come forward? We've already said it. You know, some of the victims were married. That's true. And some of them came from some very unfriendly countries. countries who were very unfriendly to gay people. Exactly.

Very intolerant. So maybe, you know, they had that kind of seared into their mind. You know, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, Bruce MacArthur is often cited as an unusual serial killer, mostly due to his age. And this guy was killing at a grandfatherly age. like well into a grandfather, maybe a great grandfatherly age. Crime experts say that, you know,

most serial killers start murdering victims in their mid to late 30s. This guy was what he started when he was in his 60s, I think. So for that reason, it's a little strange. Now, does it mean he didn't murder a bunch of people 30 years prior? No, we don't know. We never know. But at that age, he wasn't. was working as a traveling salesman.

And I think that alone has raised the possibility of additional victims throughout the Ontario province, right? When you're traveling around, would it be a little bit easier to get away with some of these crimes? I think so. Yeah. You're kind of blowing in and out of town. According to the National Post, local police have been advised to go back through their

unsolved cases from 20, 30 years ago. Bruce MacArthur took the lives of eight men. Several of the victims came from marginalized groups. This is a guy who lived a double life for many, many years. To most people, he was this friendly landscaper. But as we heard from survivors who had encounters with MacArthur, he had a real dark side and an inner rage that could be deadly. And I think the same thing can be said about many, many serial killer.

Oh, for sure. Your family sees you one way. Your friends see you a certain way. But it's not going to be usually the way that your victims are going to see you. You can't show that dark side to, you know, the people you live with day in and day out. No, you can. Or you shouldn't. Well, you can't do it and explain.

back to go unnoticed. Now, you think about Dexter. I bring Dexter up a lot, but, you know, Dexter had to learn how to blend in, right? He was terrible at showing emotion. He had to learn to fake it. And I think a lot of these killers have to learn some of those types of things because they don't want to get caught. They don't.

Most of them, right? If you get caught, you can't keep doing the sick stuff that you want to do. You cannot. But that's it for our episode on Bruce MacArthur. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? I love hearing those. All right.

Hey, Mike and Debbie. My name is Victoria. I've been listening since 2017. I won't bother you with all that. Sorry to cloud because I'm at work. I listen to you guys at work. I'm a little over. But I just had to call you guys first time caller.

I have officially been traumatized. Nothing normally bothers me, but I was listening to your William K. Dean story on Unsolved. And normally, you know, at the end of every Unsolved one, y'all give, like, the website or whatever, if you have information on the paste. Well, I never look them up, but where this one was so old, I decided to look it up. and there's this picture of this deceased man on that website. And that's just, I wasn't prepared. And that's all.

But love you guys. Keep doing what you're doing. And I love this show. It's the only podcast I listen to and I love True Prime. But thanks. Keep your own time picking. Bye. All right.

Thanks for the voicemail. I probably should have put that on it and saw. You know, you do have. have to be careful in your research. Yeah, you do. Because, you know, the interwebs out there, there's a lot of crazy stuff. There is. You never know what you're going to get when you click sometimes. Yeah, what you're going to stumble upon. Yeah. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name's Sarah, and I'm calling from Australia. Just to let you guys know that I've been on a nine-hour car ride from South Australia all the way to New South Wales.

I've got three hours left in my car ride. And I have gone through about five podcasts already. I started at Matthew Owen, and I've gotten through quite a lot. It's been a wild ride. Love the podcast, by the way. The amount of research that must go into them is absolutely phenomenal.

I hope you guys have a wonderful Christmas and keep your own time ticking. Bye. Nine hour drive. Yeah. It's a long time. It is. It is.

It can take quite a while, right, to get across Australia. But you know what I will say? I think Australian is my favorite accent. Yeah. I just love it. Not yours, so please don't do it.

You sure. I'm positive because that was even a good one. But I just love, and they're different, right? Just they are depending on where you are in Australia, just like we ours are here in the US. But I just like that accent so much. All right. We had some mailbag this week. Donna Padawano sent us a big Christmas box and it had a bunch of Harley tokens in it, some Twizzlers for you. And then also like T-Cat Christmas ornaments and mugs that were handmade for both you and I. Very nice.

Yeah. So thank you, Donna, very much. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.