True Crime All The Time - Bryan Leiva

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Bryan Romero Leiva is a man that not many people outside of Peru have heard of before. Bryan was angry and humiliated after his ex-girlfriend Thalia participated in a game show, revealing personal and embarrassing secrets for a cash prize. Thalia never gave him his cut of the money, and the social humiliation of the secrets she exposed was too much for him. He felt he had to retaliate against her. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Bryan Leiva. Bryan murdered Thalia and lied to the police, her family, and news reporters. Bryan has never been truthful about what really transpired that night, and there is still some debate in his case on if he killed Thalia in a fit of rage, or if he carefully planned her murder for weeks. You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 242 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing really well. Good. How was your birthday? Man, it was a good birthday.

I know a lot of fans were wishing you a happy birthday. You got so many fans out there, man. Do I? Yeah. I appreciate every one of them. And you know it. You tell me all the time. Love our T-Catter.

I've got X number. of fans. I don't even know how you count them, but, uh, I mean, you know the count from day to day. The score chart that we have up, uh, on the wall. Gibbs, let's give our shoutouts. For Patreon, we had Ashley Banks. Hey, Ashley. Hannah Drayton. What's going on, Drayton? Colleen. Colleen. Chelsea Van Dyke. Well, thank you, Van Dyke. Allie Schingler. What's going on, Schingler? Morning Quake. Well, good morning. Robert Johnson. Hey, Robert. James Brown. What's up? James Brown. Put those two together. You got you a little band going there. Got something happening. Jody Lambden. Hey, J. Sarah Jones. What's up, S.J.

Abigail Lawson. Well, thank you, Abigail. Megan Drymeyer. Look at that. Megan in the house. Deborah Denblaker. Well, Demblakers. Megan. Megan Crowley. Hey, Megan. Anne. Just Ann. Just Ann. Just Ann. Yeah. Paige. What's going on, Paige? Brittany Robertson. You know, that's just a good name that Brittany. You love the free Britney man. You love the name, Brittany. He's got to free those Britney's.

Barbara Carpenter. Hey, Barbara. Brian Farr. Hey, Brian. Alicia Jones. Appreciate that, Lisa. Carrie Joe. What up?

Carrie Joe. Yeah. And last but not least, Mark Garrett. Hey, appreciate that, Mark. And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Linnae trustee. And she really trusty. She's trustworthy. Yeah.

The whole deal. Appreciate her. We had some great PayPal donations as well from Out. Alexander Castricone. Hey, Castatroni. Yeah, I'm very close. Yes. Anne Tremage.

And Kathy Holden. What's going on, Kathy? And Lauren Porter. And Lauren Porter showing up again. Yep. So thanks to all of you for helping out the show. Gibbs, speaking of Patreon, we just did our weekly kind of episode, many episode. We had a lively discussion on poop coffee.

Yes, we did. for some odd reason. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it was sparked because our T-Cat episode that we're getting, it was sparked because of this episode. Right. We're headed to Peru. Yeah.

And they have their own version of poop coffee. Get you. Get you some poop coffee. I'm still not thinking that I would like it, but we spent quite a bit of time talking about it. Just make sure you let it percolate. But before we get into that, We have an episode out right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We're talking about the murder of Regina Boz, and we're headed back to Lincoln,

Nebraska. We are. Two weeks in a row. Yeah. And you could say there's somewhat of a reason for it. Number one, this is a very interesting case. It is. But number two, there is somewhat of a tie in with last week's episode.

Yeah, but it's a good episode. You know, Regina goes missing. performing up on stage on Open Mic Night. And I was a never seen again. And we're kind of dive into what happened. It's a good episode. Definitely check that out. All right, buddy.

Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I'm ready. Kind of already gave it away, but we're headed down to Peru to talk about Brian Lava. And to my knowledge, it's definitely the first time we've been to Peru. And when we do it, episodes in a new place. I can't help it. But to look up the country a little bit, right,

find some information. Peru has an estimated population of between 35 and 40 million people. That's a lot of people. Yeah, about three and a half to four times as many as we have here in our home state of Ohio. But it's roughly 10 times the size of Ohio in square miles. You've got the capital city and the biggest city, which is, you know, the city, which is, you know, it's roughly 10 times the size of Ohio in square miles. You've got the capital city and the biggest city, which is Lima. And then really most of the other cities kind of pale in comparison as far as size. But Peru also has its places to see. There's Machu Picchu. There's Lake Tidicaca, which both are just extremely fun to say. I will not repeat those words. I get a kick out of both of those. Now, anytime we venture outside of the

U.S. I have to give a pronunciation warning. There are some names and places that may get butchered. I try to do the best research possible. I always try to look them up, but we'll see how it goes. You know, the one thing I will say is it can't be any worse than how badly we butcher some names of cities in our own country. Well, we do do do that. We do do do. We do do. I did say do. Well, you were talking about poop, coffee, poo. Yeah, poop coffee. Yeah, so we'll add a little do-do. And there you go.

Yeah. That's the show, folks. So this is a story about murder, but it's wrapped up kind of around a game show. And there are a number of true crime cases that have resulted from either game show, a reality show. you and I have covered at least one, maybe two. The most famous is probably the Jenny Jones murders. We haven't covered that case, but most people know that one. I think this one is just as fascinating.

It's just much less well known because it happened in Peru. Brian Romero Lava is a man that not many people outside of Peru have probably heard of before. Brian was angry and humiliated after his girlfriend, Talia, participated in a game show, revealing some personal and embarrassing secrets for a cash prize. Talia also never gave him his cut of the money. And that along with the social humiliation of the secrets she exposed, it was too much for him.

Gibbs, he felt as though he had to retaliate against him. her. Brian murdered Talia and lied to police, her family, even lied to news reporters. And really, Brian has never been truthful about what truly transpired that night. And there is some debate in his case on whether he killed Talia in a fit of rage or if he carefully planned her murder for weeks in advance. Brian Lava lived in Wachipa, Peru, and he worked as a motor taxi driver. According to his mother, Mary, he was helpful and kind. Growing up, Brian often went with his mother to sell breakfast plates at the local market. He loved animals, and he kept a black cat

and a black rabbit as pets. Mary told California Sunday that one of her ex-boy's friends push Brian down the stairs when he was only eight years old, which caused him to develop a stutter. I also wonder if it could have damaged parts of his brain. Could have. I mean, to fall down the stairs, you know, you can end up with some pretty traumatic brain injury. Yeah. Yeah. Or worse. Or worse. In 2012 at the age of 20, Brian had moved out of his mom's house. And he was renting his own room just a few minutes away from her. Now, it's not known, or at least I couldn't find it, when Brian and Talia started dating. But they only dated for less than a year.

And, you know, there were reports that Brian seemed like a nice guy, but also reports that Talia's parents hated him. Her mother, Vilma, told California Sunday, I don't know why, but I hated that kid. Just didn't like him. Yeah. I think everybody's got somebody they know that they just don't, they don't know why they just don't like them. Really? Because I feel like the people that I don't like. Yeah. There is a very definite reason and I can tell you what it is. Really? Yeah. I don't dislike or especially hate people for no reason. It's not like a premonition or an eerie feeling I get about somebody the first time I meet them.

You never get that vibe like, you're trouble, mister. Well, there's got to be something more to it. than that. I'm not a medium. I'm not, I'm not getting premonitions or, you know. Oh, you're missing that part. Yeah. Yeah. I know you have some of that in you. Abilities, yeah. I don't have those abilities. So, somebody has to do something to me to get on my bad side. So if I don't like you, and I'm pointing at you right now, I see that. There's a definite reason and I can and will tell you the reason. I'm not bashful about that. No, you are not. You are not. I, will tell you exactly why I don't like you. Yeah. And you still do tell me sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Ruth Talia Sayas Sanchez was born in a small village in Peru. Her family just most often called her

Talia. So that is what we'll refer to her as. Talia and her siblings were born in the province of Wanca Velika, which is hundreds of miles from the capital of Lima. Talia had a sister named Eva. And her parents are Leoncio and Vilma, Syez, Sanchez. She also had a little brother, but he was only eight years old when he died. And his name has been kept out of the news for, you know, really for good reason why put his name out there. So I don't know his name. When Talia was a child, they moved to the small working class town of Wachipa, just outside Lima. This neighborhood is a mix of agricultural and urban.

NPR host Daniel Alarcon described Wapija as having, quote, dusty unpaved streets, small farm plots, and half-built houses all over the neighborhood. At any hour of the day or night, you see mototaxies coming and going. The whiz of their motors can be heard all day and night. So it's pretty descriptive. Yeah. I think kind of helps you paint a picture. of what it's like in this small town. When the Syaz-Sanchez family first arrived in Lima,

they sold watermelon and pineapples in the market. The girls didn't speak English. They spoke Quechua and indigenous language. And because of that, they were bullied by the other kids at school. That's a tough language to master. Yeah. Yeah, I know it took you quite a while.

They did. to get the Quechua language down. You know, you and I talk about bullying a lot. We do. And kids get bullied for a myriad of reasons. Around here, you don't normally get bullied for not speaking the same language.

Right. Because everybody normally speaks English. Yeah. Around here. What I find interesting in different countries is that, you know, they have these different dialects or different languages, really within inside the same country. I always find that very interesting.

Now, some people would say that about us, right? You've got northerners, you've got southerners. You know, out west, they talk a little different. In the northeast, they talk a little different. But, you know, it's still English. It is. I mean, for the most part, I can understand it. Yeah, I mean, the normal would be us.

You're calling us normal. Yeah. Okay. People are going to say, nope. But, you know, you get down to like Louisiana. Yeah. Cajun country. Man.

Okay. Some of those accents can be hard to understand. You get way up north. You're talking that Minnesotan accent. I can still understand them all, but, you know, it's a different situation. I mean, these are almost like different languages. It is. Within the same country.

and I always find it fascinating. Tali's family was extremely hardworking, and they were determined to make it in the new city. Her parents were part of a pop band called Vilma Sanchez, I Los Chupa Chichis del Peru. We used to have a Mexican restaurant here, Gibbs, named Chi-Chi's. We did.

That I really enjoyed. My wife and I used to go there all the time. That doesn't have anything to do with the band. I don't think so. But interesting fact. Just a fact. Yeah. So in this band, they performed traditional Andean songs in Lima. Vilma sang and Leoncio played the heart. They also owned a glass shop. So, you know, you talk about a family who is very hardworking, very industrious. Yeah. They're trying to make the best lives for themselves that they possibly can. And talented. And they're talented, obviously, because they're in a band.

As young adults, Talia and Eva studied at the local university. Talia's family said she was always smiling. They described her as brave, funny, charismatic, and intelligent. So we talked about Brian Lava in 2012. For Talia in 2012, she was 19 years old and she had some big dreams for herself. She always had her eye towards the future. future and it was a better future. You know, I think she grew up a little bit rebellious. Gibbs, as a lot of us do. But Talia was hiding a big secret from her conservative family.

She was working as a dancer at a nightclub when her parents thought she was working at a call center. Well, that's going to stir up a little, little family drama. Yeah, it can. If your family is not happy with your choices. Now, only her sister and her boyfriend Brian knew her secret. So just as I mentioned, I'm not really sure when Brian and Talia got together. It's not really known when they broke up either. But it was sometime before the summer of 2012. Because in June of 2012, Talia went on a game show called The Value of Truth. And she was the show. She was the show's first contestant. She invited her parents and her ex-boyfriend Brian to go with her. And I think this part is very important, right? The public watching this game show,

they did not know that Talia and Brian were no longer together. That's an important fact. So this value of truth show was the Spanish version of the moment of truth. The show came to Lima in the summer of 2012. And it was a show that had already been produced in dozens of countries, including the U.S. in 2008 and 2009. I do not remember it at all. I do not either. The moment of truth.

No. And when I describe what the show was about, it's very distinctive. So I know for a fact, I never saw it because I would definitely remember it. In Peru, Beto Ortiz was the host. and he's been named Peru's most powerful TV journalist. He worked for El Comercio, Peru's most influential newspaper, before he transitioned to TV. And in papers, Beto described Talia as average, pretty, but nothing special. Okay.

Not very flattering. Oh. I guess except for the pretty part, nothing special. Ordinary, plain. don't know what he's getting at, but maybe you could have picked some different word choices. Yeah. That didn't come off. So what's the word I'm looking for?

Crappy. I don't know. I'm trying to think of. Just crappy. Just crappy. This doesn't sound great. Yeah. When you say someone's nothing special, well, everybody's special in their own way.

You don't need to be little. Yeah, it's kind of a put down, wrapped in. Fancy paper is the way I look at it. He said he noticed how Talia enjoyed being on TV. He could tell that her eyes lit up and that she seemed very confident on stage. So I mentioned the way that the show works. And it's pretty simple. Participants go in early to take a polygraph test.

So now we got a polygraph involved. That's going to make it interesting. They're asked 50 questions. And they have no idea which of those 50 questions they'll be asked during the filming of the show. They also don't know the results of their polygraph test. So basically in front of their families and a live audience, they have to answer the questions again, whichever ones that the show chooses to ask. If their answers don't match, they lose their prize and they go home.

but if the answers do match, they win different amounts of money. So basically, the more questions you answer truthfully, the more money you can win. Sounds simple. It does sound simple. Right? Yeah. It also goes into one of the Patreon episodes that we did recently where I said I wanted to see about renting a polygraph test to do on you because I think it'd be fun.

And I was going to allow fans to pick the questions asked, which, I'm still looking into. I haven't found it yet. Or make it happen. Yeah. We'll figure out. But I think the problem with this show, Gibbs, is that, you know, the questions asked are often very personal and embarrassing. I mean, we're talking about, you know, have you been involved in crimes, lying, cheating on a spouse or a mate, things like that.

I mean, this is a show that can ruin people's lives. And I think it ruined a number of people's lives. The Colombian version of the show was actually canceled after a woman admitted to hiring a hitman to kill her husband. That's not good. Well, it's not good to do that. No, you shouldn't do that. But the fact that you answered that question truthfully in an attempt to win some money, I think that says something about the person answering the question.

Not only are you a bad person because you hired a hit man to kill your husband, you may not be the brightest bulb in the pack either. But hey, at least they're honest. But definitely honest because they want to win that money. Yeah, exactly. But how quicker police going to be to show up at your door after you've admitted on camera on a live television? you know, in front of a live audience that, yeah, I hired Hitman to kill my husband. Yeah.

Now, give me my $1,000 and get out of my way. Because I'm going to need it to pay them for my attorney. Or you can just wire it right to the prison, put it on my account. I'm going to spend it all on ramen. All right, Gibbs. Let's take a break to talk about some sponsors. And first up as best fiends. I think we're all excited to get back to normal this summer, but almost normal.

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Visit betterhelp.com slash T-Cat. That's Better H-E-LP and join the over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. They have a special offer for true crime all the time listeners. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash T-Cat T-C-C-A-T-T. So going into this show, Tali's parents have said that they thought that Beto was going to ask some pretty simple questions about their life in Peru, maybe some questions about their band.

Her mom, Vilma, was skeptical. She didn't really believe that they could win money. just by talking, but she agreed to go anyway. Leonezio didn't want to go at all, but Vilma argued with him and said that if he didn't go, he wasn't supporting their daughter. Now, when it came to Brian, he didn't know much at all. But the one thing he did know Gibbs is that he was going to get paid for appearing on the show. All right.

So he was willing to do it because he's going to get some dollars out of it. which makes me think of like a Mori Povich or something like that. You know, I've always wondered why some of those people went on those shows when they had to have a good inkling that they weren't going to look good or things weren't going to go their way. Yeah, especially if you went on a show later in the seasons because you've already seen what happens. Yeah. I mean, if you were like the first season, I get it. You get a pass.

Sure. You don't know exactly what it's going to be. year five, you know exactly what it's going to be. You're that baby's father. Exactly. And more he's going to tell you that right to your face and he's going to tell the whole world. Yep. Yep.

Or he's going to bring out your brother. And he's the baby's father. He's the baby's father. So either way. Yeah. It's not looking good for you. But here's $500. Have fun with that.

And you got a free night stay at the okay hotel. Whatever it is. But I think the thing you can't discount is the fact that some people just want to be on TV. They do. You know, they want that 15 minutes. They want their 15 minutes of fame. And if they have to go through a little bit of humiliation, they'll, they'll do it. Brian appeared extremely nervous as the filming started. Apparently, he was shaking. He was so nervous. And Beto even asked him, you seem nervous. What are you so nervous about? And according to the California Sunday, Brian responded that she may have cheated. on me. So I think going into it, that was his biggest worry that he was going to find out that Talia

had cheated on him. Now, bear in mind, they're broken up at this point. Right. So I'm not sure, you know, would he have been devastated by that? Maybe finding out that it had happened, but they're no longer together. Maybe she did that, it's not you, it's me speech. And then during this, you know, he's worried that it might be like, it's not you, it's me. And, This other person I've been seen. Jorge? Yeah. I'll call him Jorge.

Yeah. So Talia's first questions were pretty easy. The host asked her if she'd ever skip school without her mom finding out. And if she found money, would she return it? The question I asked you a couple of episodes ago. Yeah. I think you were very boy scoutish about it and said you would return it. I said, no way.

I'm squirreling that money away. That's the difference between me and you. you. And then I think you've been trying to trick me for the last week because everywhere I go, I mean, seeing like some money laying down. A bag of money. Yeah. And I'm like, mm-hmm, he's trying to trick me. I'm just going to leave it right where it's at and walk away from it. It's got a tracker in it. Yeah. And it's linked to the local police department. But other than that, it's totally fine. That's twice. I walked away from the bag and walked away from a thick envelope of money this week. I know it's you. But as the show progressed, the question's got more difficult to answer.

Talia admitted to getting a nose job. She said that she didn't like her body. And she confessed that she wished she was white. Okay. Not too bad, right? Not too humiliating or anything like that. But then the questions got worse. And Talia said that the only reason she was with Brian was that she was just waiting for

someone better to come along. Okay. that's got to be a gut shot right there. And, you know, he looked devastated on the show. Beto asked Brian if he loved Talia and he said yes. One of the questions had Talia admitting that she was ashamed of her parents' manners. And then she confessed that she didn't really work at a call center. She danced at a nightclub.

So things are heating up a little bit. Yeah, things are heating up. I think Brian's getting upset. her family's getting upset you know and as the show went on i think that level of anxiety how upset they were it just kept increasing it kept building you know who wasn't upset but host betto yeah because he don't care he's like i'm loving this man yeah he's he's he's wanting to get the best show possible at one point vilma begged her daughter to stop and i think brian was so shocked that he just couldn't even say anything he did tell Beto that he loved Talia and he didn't want to hear any more answers to these questions.

But Talia wasn't about to stop because with every answer, right, the prize money was increasing. When they got to question number 18, Tali admitted to accepting money for sex at the nightclub where she worked. She told Beto just twice, just twice. Just two times. She said, we needed money. We were in a bad situation. It hasn't happened since and it won't happen again. I'm sure her mom and dad were in all.

Yeah, I mean, you know, you have to think about this from their perspective. They think their daughter works at a call center. So number one, they're finding out that, no, that's not true. She works as a dancer. And my assumption is they, that's something that they probably didn't approve of. or she would have been honest about it from the beginning. Okay, that's one thing. But then to find out that she had accepted money for sex while working at the nightclub,

I mean, I think as a parent, that's got to be rough to hear. Yeah. I'm sure Brian wasn't too happy either. Yeah. No, I'm sure he wasn't. Hearing that this happened probably when they were still seeing each other. Yeah. I don't know that to be the case for sure.

But I think it's safe to say that that was probably true. So then Talia got to the final question. And, you know, if she went through and answered that one, it would make her eligible for the maximum prize. So the host asked her if she wanted to continue. She turned to her family and said, my mother, my father, my brother and sister, they're the most beautiful thing in the world to me. I love them with all my heart. Brian, forgive me for making you go through with this. And then Gibbs, she decided she was.

done. She wasn't going to answer that final question. She hugged Brian and begged her parents for forgiveness. You're right there at the finish line. You've already embarrassed your family. What's one more question? What could the damage be that would be greater than what you've already done? Really? You don't. So the question before that had her admitting to having sex for money. Yeah. You don't think the next one is going to be. an even bigger bombshell? I can't imagine, but maybe so,

but at this point... You think they saved an easier one for the maximum prize? No. No, it's going to be something that you are not going to want everybody to know. It's going to be difficult to recover from.

Yeah, my assumption is they saved the biggest bombshell for the last question. But you, I mean, you made that decision to go up to that point. I mean, I think for me,

If I'm in that type of contest, if I'm going to do it, I'm like, all right, if I hit this spot here, there's no turning back. Well, by question two, you've had to say something that would make the whole world cringe. That's true. Every question is going to be just a salacious bombshell for you. You're still hanging in with me after question two. We got this. We're going the whole distance. By 18, who knows what you've done at that point?

Talia won 15,000 souls. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. That's what I'm going with. It was the equivalent of about $5,700 for her participation on the show. Now, I think to a lot of us, $5,700, that doesn't seem like enough money really to get me to bear my deepest, darkest secrets. No, but to people that live in Peru, it's pretty much a year's salary. Yeah, it is. For the average person in in Lima,

that's a, that's a year salary. So that's a lot of money. While they waited for the show to premiere, the family was torn apart. Talia's mom and dad were angry. They were distant. Gibbs, they just couldn't understand why she went through with this. And, you know, she told them that it was for the money. She said that she wanted to be a famous actress and she had auditioned for some soap operas and game shows before, but she was also realistic. So she thought about wanting to open her own salon. She had about $7,000 saved up. And if she could add that to the winnings from the show, she would be very close to being able to start her own business. There you go.

She finally have her one dream of owning her own business. Well, and I think it explains why someone like Talia would be willing to go on this show knowing that she's going to have to say some things that are not going to be flattering. Her family's going to be angry. Brian's going to be angry. But she's going to do it anyway because this is, her chance to cobble together enough money to open a salon. There's certain things that many people will do for the right dollar amount.

Oh, I think that's been true throughout history. We talked about the one lady exposing the fact that she hired a hitman. Yeah. Think about a hitman. That's the ultimate, right? You're willing to kill somebody for a certain amount of money. Right. Doesn't get much, you know, worse than that.

that when it comes to greed. I mean, a lot of people are greedy. And I don't necessarily look at it as the worst thing in the world. But, you know, when you're greedy to the point where you're willing to hurt anyone and everyone physically or emotionally. Yeah, both to step on people, to kill them, to do whatever. All right, you've taken it too far. Now, if you're talking about greedy in the sense that you want to work as hard as you can, you want to work as many hours as you can and bank some money, right, there's no harm in that. No, go at it, man. The value of truth premiered on July 12th, 2012.

So really, that's pretty quick, I think, in television terms, right? You're taping it one month and it's airing the very next month. The show hit the number one spot when it premiered and it stayed in the top charts for the next eight weeks. and as a result, Talia became somewhat famous. She was even photographed at the television station holding her check. She went on Beto's morning show and admitted that she and Brian weren't together anymore. And apparently her image appeared in newspapers all across the country. I'm sure she loved that.

Yeah. I mean, you're getting the fame. I think if you wanted to be a famous actress, okay. It's a kickstart. It's a kickstart. the problem is her family's reputation was ruined. Leoncio told California Sunday, this neighborhood we live in is a hellhole of gossip. And I think everyone had their own opinion about Talia and relatives called frequently

to give her a piece of their minds. You know, if you come from a big family, it's not just your immediate family, right? you're casting kind of a bad light on your extended family as well. We sure are. So I can imagine cousins, aunts, uncles, all these people are calling her saying,

what are you doing? Why'd you do this? Right. Why did you embarrass our family up there? It got to the point where she couldn't even leave the house. And she confided in her mom that she was thinking about taking her life. Eva tried to make her sister feel better. But according to NPR,

Talia only said, what have I done? And now dad and mom are in the eye of the storm. I get it. This girl was 19 years old. Sure. And she wanted that money. A lot of 19 year olds don't think about the ramifications that are going to come later. You know, she might have thought, well, it's a game show. Yeah. I'm going to go and win some money and start my business. Yeah, it's not going to be that bad. Well, it turned out to be probably a lot worse than she thought it was going to be. Now, to be fair, she had answered 50 questions. Right. So she had to know going into this that any of those 50 questions could be asked in whatever order they wanted to ask them. Yeah, be different if the show said, don't worry about it. Go ahead and answer this one. Word never use this. Right. And then they

surprised you with them. Right. And then they surprised you with them. Right. And then there was Brian. You know, his pride was hurt. You know, from what I got from the research Gibbs, it talked a lot about, you know, the values of being extremely masculine and how important that is in Peru. Right. Or in Peruvian society. Well, you know, having his girlfriend admit to cheating kind of did some damage to his masculine image. Sure did. He was taunted by. And, you know, he was taunted by local high school students. He went to the local television station and demanded compensation. And he had his uncle ready go with him.

Reddy was studying law at the time. According to California Sunday, a few weeks after the premiere, the television crew came to Brian's house and they asked him how he felt. He told him that he was ashamed. He said, all of the things I learned on that show, how would you feel the thing she said that day i can't forget in other interviews brian said it was all a setup and that he and talia were not together at the time of filming she asked him to pretend to be her boyfriend and if he did that she'd pay him but she never did

so that's where you know it comes out that brian was going to go on the show because he was going to be paid yeah he's not going to be paid by the television show. No, he was getting a cut from her. He's saying that Talia promised him a cut of her winnings. According to Talia's sister Eva, Brian started demanding money from the family. One day, someone broke into their home and stole Talia's laptop. Her dad filed a police report, but there was no evidence to prove that it was Brian.

Brian came to the house drunk one night and spoke to Eva. And apparently he demanded money again that night. And Eva told him to come back the next day when he was sober. And to that, Brian responded, revenge is sweet. Okay. How are you going to take that? Yeah. Kind of comes across as a threat.

Yeah. I think it's a threatening type of statement. Revenge is sweet. Okay. Well, who's the revenge going to be against? Obviously, that person would be Talia because that's who he believed. wronged him. On September 11th, 2012, this was about eight weeks after the premiere, Talia was out late at the university. Her parents didn't expect to see her until the next morning. But when her mom woke

up the next morning, she noticed that Talia wasn't home. And this was something that she had never done before. Yeah, she stayed out late. She did this. She did that. But she always came home. was out of town. Her parents called her and asked her if she knew anything. Eva didn't, but she called some of Talia's friends. And she spoke to a young man who saw Talia the night before when she left the university. This young man told Eva that Talia had received a call from Brian. So after they learned this, Vilma immediately went to Brian's house. Gibbs, she cried. She screamed and begged Brian to give Talia back. She wanted to know what he had done to her, but Brian told Vilma that he hadn't seen her and he went back inside. Talia's disappearance was reported on September 12. And one thing that was

very apparent in the research is that, you know, typically for poor people in Peru, the police are pretty slow to act. And it didn't seem as though they really cared about, you know, any of the cases involving poor people. Leoncio filed a missing persons report, and then he went to the TV station office. In Peru, people often line up outside the TV station to try to share news about missing or murdered family members. Leoncio spoke to a producer for Beto's morning news show who promised to let him go on air and speak about his daughter, Talia.

So that's interesting in and of itself. It is. You don't see that here. I mean, people might try to contact the local news or, you know, something like that. What you wouldn't see is a line of people outside of the television station trying to get on the air. So after he learned this, Leoncio went home to console Vilma. She was devastated. And I think together, they tried to tell them.

that Talia went on a trip, you know, something that would make it seem as though she wasn't in trouble. But I think as often happens, you know, your mind kind of wants to drift towards some possibilities that are not so good. So they started thinking, well, you know, maybe someone was holding her for ransom. The one thing they didn't want to think about was the possibility that she was dead. And I think they put a lot of hope into getting on TV. Yeah. And that that would help them find their daughter.

Hope that awareness points to where she might be. Yeah. You and I talk about, you know, people's cases being profiled on America's Most Wanted, 2020, Dateline, things like that. You know, in an unsolved case, that can really drum up a lot of tips. Sure can.

For police. It sounds as though at this point in time, their best option was to get on the local television station and plead for their daughter's safe return. Yeah. And we actually kind of touched base on that with our T-Cat Unsolved this week. Yeah. Yep. We sure do. But at 5 a.m. on September 13th, the producer called and said that their TV appearance was canceled.

That was it. It's canceled. we'll call you back later. Well, they had to be frustrated. I would have been. Extremely frustrated because as you and I often talk about, someone goes missing. What is extremely important? Timing is everything.

Yeah. Getting the word out as quickly as possible, they thought they were going to have that avenue. Now they're being told that no, you're not going to be on. We'll call back and maybe squeeze you in later. Three days passed, no one called. There were no signs of Talia. And really the police had not taken any action. One of Talia's friends went to the police and said that Talia wasn't dating Brian.

When they filmed the show, Talia convinced him to go on by paying him. So I think this was an attempt by her friend to kickstart the police. Yeah. But the police didn't speak to Brian. No, they didn't. So, I mean, to me, that was a pretty good effort, right? Hey, police, I want to make sure that you know the facts are this, this and this. Okay, trying to coax them into maybe taking a look at Brian, but they didn't. Tali's parents traveled to all of the Lima TV stations to ask for help. The problem was that they didn't tell anyone that. Talia was on the value of truth or that they had connections to Beto Ortiz. They only said that they were poor and they needed help, which I think is important here, right?

We mentioned the fact that she was on newspapers. She was kind of a big deal for a period of time. I think if her parents had gone in and said, you know, our daughter is Talia. She was on the show. she was in all the newspapers and now she's missing. Immediately the interest in having them on would have risen dramatically. Well, sure, because there's that viewership out there. Yeah, that would be interested in hearing about her.

The problem is her parents were ashamed of what she had done and they didn't want to go on television and advertise it any more than it had already, you know, been out there. But I think in making that decision, it hurt their chances of getting on. And it did. And they find out really quick when they do mention the show their scenario changes. Yeah, exactly. And this happened on about the third day of them going around to the various television stations. Once they said that her daughter was the girl from the value of truth, immediately the cameraman came to talk to her.

And that very night, the case was put out on national TV. But Vilma was devastated because on television, they called Talia the prostitute from El Valor de la Vrda. Well, they were going for what? Sensationalism. Exactly. Ratings, viewership. Sure. But now what are they basing that off of?

Right. The question that she answered that said she had accepted money for sex. Vilma later told California Sunday, they killed me in my heart. And I get that, right? You're grieving as parents. You finally get a break. They're going to hear your side of the story. They're going to shine a spotlight on your daughter who's missing.

And then what comes out? It's like an expose. It's, it's tabloid type sensation. that makes her look like a very bad person. Yeah. Reporters from all over came to what Cheapah to speak to the family. The producers from Channel 9 slept at the Sanchez home. They just would not leave them alone.

But Vilma went out every morning to search for Talia. She knocked on doors. She asked for information. And Channel 9 let her borrow a car as long as they could ride along and film her. Of course. There's always got to be a, uh, something in it for me. Sure. I mean, there's a caveat. It's not, hey, sure, we're goodhearted people. You can borrow our car. You can borrow our car if we get what we want. Vlma went to government facilities, hospitals. She even went to the morgue to look for Talia. She ended up getting an audience with the advisor to the

First Lady of Peru. And I think it was at this point, you know, getting this audience that made the police take Talia's case more seriously. But I think even then they weren't searching like her mother Vilma was searching. Talia's parents were uncomfortable with the constant media bombardment. But they knew it was the only way to get help. Right? They had to get her story out there.

Even if, okay, it made her look back. it made them look bad. They didn't like it. They still went through with it because what's the bottom line? We want our daughter back. Sure. Yeah. Do whatever you have to. But then the family began receiving extortion phone calls, which sometimes happens, right? When you put yourself out there, when you put your story out there. But here's the difference Gibbs. These calls were coming from police officers outside of the Capitol who said they had information about. Talia, but they needed money to investigate. All right. If that doesn't sound suspect, I don't know what does. Hey, I'm a police officer. I will help you, but you got to give me some

money. Yeah, I need some cash to, to continue looking. Now, I get it. If a, if a private investigator called and offered their services, you would have to pay for that. But a police officer calling, Hmm, it's not something that we're really used to here in the U.S. One day a taxi driver approached Talia's father and said that he had found Talia. She was being held in a hotel close by and he agreed to drive Leoncio there for a few thousand souls. He went with the man to the motel and called Channel 9 so someone knew where he was in case he disappeared.

A young girl came out of the hotel. tell room, but she wasn't Talia. So were they trying to scam them or just the wrong girl? I'm assuming that everything is a scam at this point. If police are calling asking for money to investigate, I'm assuming everyone's trying to scam. On the morning of September 2nd, 2012, Brian was interviewed by Channel 9 reporter Alejandra Puente.

She asked Brian if he saw Talia on September 12. and he said he couldn't remember much because he was drunk. She asked him if his conscience was clean and he said, yes, it was. That afternoon, Tali's father received a call from Channel 9. The police told the new station that they found the body of a young woman buried in a well covered by rocks and concrete. The property where they found the body was owned by Reddy Lava, Brian's uncle. And I think Gibbs, they were almost positive that it was Talia.

The way the situation is described in various sources is slightly confusing. But it seems that the primary communication was between the police and Channel 9, not directly between the police and Talia's parents. You wonder why that was. Did the news station pay for information? Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Maybe. Talia's parents rushed to the property, but police wouldn't let them go to the well.

While they sat and waited, they were harassed by reporters. Brian was eventually brought to the scene. And Leoncio asked the police if he could speak to Brian. And they said he could as long as he controlled himself. But Leoncio put a rock in his pocket. And when Brian started talking about Talia, he ran at him with the rock and tried to hit him in the head. So police had to separate the two men. And I get it as a father. You know, if you thought Gibbs even the tiniest bit,

even the slightest bit that you were standing in front of the person who had harmed or killed your daughter. Yeah. Or your son, for that matter. Okay. I might be putting a rock in my pocket too. Oh.

I don't know if you and I would need the rocks, but I might put them in there just in case. You're going to need a lot of people to hold us back is what you're going to need. The police positively identified Talia's body on the 22nd at the well on Ready Lava's property. And they arrested Brian just a few minutes later. Leonezio went to identify Talia's body while Vilma waited at the house for news. Some neighbors came by to give support. while she waited. A news reporter came inside and told Vilma that Talia was dead. I had a crusher. Oh, I'm sure she was devastated. She locked herself in her bedroom and she cried uncontrollably.

When the police first questioned, Brian, he denied everything. We hear that all the time, but he broke pretty quickly and began confessing after just a few hours. He led the police. He led the police. police to the crime scene at the house where he lived. He told them his main motive was the money that Talia had won on the show. And the following information comes from his video confession. Brian called Talia at 11 p.m. as she was leaving the university, they made plans to meet up. He waited for her by the bridge and she rode with him on his motot taxi. He asked her to go to his house and have some wine with him. And she agreed. Once they got there, they drank a bottle together and then went upstairs to his room. But Brian had put a sleeping tablet in her wine to drug her.

They had sex. They got into a fight afterwards. Talia told him, I don't know what I'm doing talking to a poor motot taxi driver. Now, this is according to Brian, right? It's his confession. But he said this made him very angry. So he grabbed her by the throat and choked her until she passed out. He said he listened for her heartbeat and he didn't hear anything. He shook her, but she wouldn't wake up. And the autopsy performed on Talia later found poison in her body and signs of strangulation. So basically they were able to confirm everything.

Yeah, I think it kind of verified, you know, the story that Brian told. Now, I'm not sure what they mean by poison because he says he slipped her a sleeping pill, but either way, he had already confessed to choking her to death. Right. Brian took the police to the crime scene and demonstrated how he carried her downstairs and out of the house. And then he and his uncle ready put her body in a well on his property. Afterwards, he made some plans to flee to Ecuador. A few days after the murder, he sold his motot taxi and moved out of the room that he was renting.

So police know that he did it, right? He's confessed to it. What they had to figure out Gibbs was this a crime of passion or was this a premeditated murder? Well, there's a big difference when it comes to your sentence. Yeah, there definitely is. in the U.S., most countries. Now, in Peru, premeditated murder comes with a life sentence, while a crime of passion will only

get you about 10 years. If I was his defense attorney, I'd be selling the crime of passion all day. Well, that's a huge difference. You think about you're out in 10 years. He would have been, what, 30 years old or so? Yeah. versus a life sentence and possibly dying in prison. Big difference. Brian's lawyer argued that he snapped. Because of the humiliation he went through, Talia's comment set him off. He placed all the blame on Talia in the show. A few days before the trial began, Brian's lawyer read a letter that Brian had written asking Talia's parents for forgiveness and calling on Beto Ortiz.

to apologize and accept Blaine. On January 21st, 2014, Beto Ortiz appeared in the courtroom to testify. Brian accused him of attempting to buy his silence and offering him a job, but then rescinding the offer. Beto denied everything. And I'm not really sure I understand that.

What silence from Brian would Beto Ortiz need to buy gives? I couldn't figure that. part out because the show aired on television right it wasn't like a secret now did the audience know that tally and brian weren't together no but if that comes out wide scale is it going to do a ton of damage i don't know i mean i think the murderer is where the damage comes from you know so you murdered someone but you're trying to make this guy look bad for putting on the television show. Now, as the trial was going on, the country was outraged and they called on the television station to cancel the show. They wouldn't do it. Beto appeared on his morning show

and he gave his condolences to the Saez Sanchez family and said the show played no role in Talia's death. All of the blame should be placed on Brian. That's what he said. Fox News, quoted Beto is saying what they are doing is giving an alibi to the defenders of a soulless criminal because they are taking away his responsibility by saying that television creates monsters. Well, Brian was initially upset over the fact that he lost his manhood, right? Yes, I think if you believe him. Right. But that's not why he killed her, though.

He killed her for the money, is what he said. Yeah. And I think that kind of goes to the heart, right, of the question. Was this premeditated murder or was it a crime of passion? Because if he truly was upset about not getting the money, then maybe he had planned this for some time. Right. Or even if he was upset about the things she said on television. That had happened some time ago. He'd been stewing about it. So he had. had been thinking and maybe planning as opposed to, you know, she said something to me that night and I snapped. And the problem is you only can get one person's version of events. Yeah. I mean, he already said that they had sex that night and they got in a fight and then it escalated from there, but who's there to tell her side? Nobody because she's, she's dead. And there was nobody else. in the room. You know, to some extent, I do understand what Beto is saying, right? They're arguing that television creates monsters. This kind of goes back to the violent video games, violent movies.

Ted Bundy saying that pornography made him kill. It's almost as if, you know, a lot of these people, they have to find something to blame their actions on. Well, of course. You know, Yeah. Because there has to be a reason why they did what they did. And I also think it comes from other people. You know, there are people that can't explain why these killers act the way that they do. So it's pretty easy to say, okay, they played violent video games. They watched a lot of violent movies.

That in turn caused them to be violent. Now, does it happen to some people? I'm sure it does. but by and large, I don't believe that the masses who play violent video games and watch violent movies end up hurting anyone. No, you're just trying to push that responsibility on something else instead of taking it on yourself and saying, no, I'm actually the real monster here. Yeah. Now, can you get caught up in certain types of pornography that, you know, then, you know, lead you to jump from fantasy to reality? yes, I'm sure you can.

And I'm sure many killers have done it. I think we've even talked about some killers that have had, you know, a real fascination with pornography that then, you know, led them into killing. Yeah, many times. But there are a lot of people that look at pornography on the internet, right? The old joke is, what is the internet except for a place for pornography? I mean, that's the, the joke. people say stuff like that all the time,

not all those people are out there killing. No. They just aren't. Can you get pornography on the internet? I have heard that you can. Okay. I've heard people talk about it. Yeah.

Hmm. I mean, I would think you would know having your own site, Rex West.com, but hey, if you want to plead innocent, that's okay by me. I try not to associate myself with that directly.

Indirectly, yes, directly, no. Yeah. So if you want to play dumb. Yeah. I'll go along with you. Except I just called you out. So I really didn't go along with you. Maybe you just drove some traffic to the site. Maybe I just made you some money. Those assless chaps are paying off. I want to be a cowboy. On February 27th, 2014, Brian Lava was found guilty by the court. Most of his confession Gibbs was proven to be false. The prosecution proved that the only true state, made was about making a phone call at 11 p.m. Brian and Reddy Lava abducted Talia and tried to force her to tell them her bank security code. They wanted to get at her money. But she refused to tell them the police found a young boy who witnessed Talia's abduction. And apparently he said Brian paid him

50 souls to let him know when Talia got off the bus. He saw Brian, and another man force her into a motot taxi. And Brian didn't just put a sleeping pill in Talia's wine. He poisoned her. He left her body on his bathroom floor, closed the door of his bedroom, and then went out to drink at a friend's birthday party. So that explains the autopsy reports indicating poison and not just finding a sleeping pill. makes a lot of sense. But how cold is this guy? He just killed his ex-girlfriend. Yeah.

Essentially, just pushed her into the bathroom, shut the door, and then went out to party, as though it was just another Friday, Saturday night. Yeah, like no big deal. And all for a little bit of money. And then on top of that, he made that elaborate story up that they had sex and this. But that's the thing, right? You see that in a ton of cases. Yes.

Perpetrators confess, but how many times Gibbs do they tell a slanted version of events that makes them look a little bit better than what they really were? Yeah. They still admit to killing the person, but it's almost as if they can't tell the whole truth because the whole truth makes them look even worse. Yeah. So they got to tell this story that, yeah, I. I killed the person, but this happened, this happened, that happened. I got to dress it up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, bad news for them. This was not a crime of passion. Yeah, that is bad news because both Brian and his uncle were sentenced to life in prison that same day. Tali's parents made statements that they were happy, that Brian was being punished, but it didn't bring back their daughter. The California Sunday reported that Vilma said, when I die, that's when I will stop crying. That's when I will stop suffering.

And that I get. I believe the parents of a murdered child, I think probably most of them feel that way, right? They suffer until the day they die. Yeah. Because it haunts them. It never leaves them that their child was murdered. And especially in such a callous way,

for such a senseless reason, right? What are we talking about? A few thousand dollars? Yeah. Unimaginable. Brian later explained himself to a Peruvian newspaper called El Comercio. He said, my pride was wounded with my friends, with my family, with the way they look at me. Yeah, but did this help the scenario?

Are they looking at you any differently? No, they got to be looking at you worse after this. but I can't stop thinking about, you know, how he's gone back and forth, right? It's the money. It's my pride. It's my money. It's my pride. Okay, which one is it? Or was it just a combination of the two? Your pride was wounded, but you were also ticked that you didn't get that money. NPR collaborator Eduardo Garcia went to Wachipa in 2015 to talk to the family. They almost, lost everything in a series of storms that caused damage along the Peruvian coast. They'll must stop singing for a long time after Talia died, but Eva encouraged her to start again

by saying that Talia would want her to keep the band going. Their house is full of pictures of Talia and it's been difficult for them to cope with the loss of their daughter. Brian and his uncle will spend the rest of their lives in prison for their crimes. I guess Gibbs, you know, as we wrap up, you know, one of the things that stands out to me is the way that Brian was able to lie so easily, right, to everyone, to the family, to police. He showed no remorse. And I think that shocked a lot of people once they found out that he had actually killed her. Yeah. that he was so manipulative or, or, you know, so kind of devoid of emotion that he was able to

talk to everyone as though he had nothing to do with him. You hit it right on the spot with devoid. Yeah, I think a lot of killers are like that, though. You know, it takes something to end another human beings life. So should we be surprised that people who are able to do that are also able to, talk to the family, talk to police as though they didn't do anything wrong because I think Gibbs in their minds, they're not all that sure that they did. Right. It's not weighing on them. They're not losing any sleep about what they did. And that's kind of a scary thing.

That's extremely scary. I feel like most of us, even if we accidentally cause the death of another human being, it would haunt us for the rest of our lives. Oh, yeah. Even if it was an accident. But not these people. No. I mean, these people are intentionally taking the lives of others and then they're going out to party like it's 1999. There's just nothing going on in the emotional arena with some of these people. I think the other thing that you have to talk about is the show, right? Obviously, some things that came out about Talia that were not flattering. This was a 19-year-old girl who had made some mistakes, probably things that she regretted later, but none of those mistakes.

And this is something that you and I talk about all the time meant that she deserved what happened to her at all. Brian was angry and humiliated after the show's premiere and he was willing to do whatever it took to get his revenge. And now he'll pay for it for the rest of his life. As he should. That's it for our story on Brian Lava. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs.

You want to check those out? Let's hear him. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Bree Hillserrant from Big Bear, California. I just wanted to call because this is my big celebration. I finished all, you know, I'm all caught up. So I get to send you guys a gift after, you know, just taking in like, I don't know, 200 plus hours of podcasts. So I just call to say thank you so much for the work that you guys do and all the stuff you put into it.

And I just enjoy it a lot. Thank you so much. Have a good one. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Well, we definitely will. And we thank Bree. We'll talk about her in a minute because we got her stuff. My mom is four or no.

In the mailbag and we'll discuss it. Hi, this is John. And I'm from Pensacola, Florida. And I'm listening to the Randy Krabb. episode of a true crime all the time and uh i've always wanted to call in but i'm calling in now because juby talked about the uh procedure after having kidney stones and he said that it was like a straw that they insert into you and and i'm just here to say that give you have to tell it like it is it is not a straw it is a it is a fishing pole they take a fishing pole with a little loop on the

end and and they insert it and it is horrifying and i i uh heard him say that and I cringed. I had to stop the podcast, and I, and I called in right away to tell everybody that it is a fishing pole. Okay. Thank you. I love what you guys do. I'm team Gibby.

And, uh, my, my girlfriend is team Fergie. And, uh, so I think we balanced each other out. And, uh, anyway, have a good day. Bye. Well, I think that just right there, Gibbs, that's a relationship that's going to last. Absolutely. Now, I will say, I, I'm siding with him. But I would call it more of a Louisville slugger.

than either a straw or a fishing pole. But thankfully, it's an experience I haven't had in quite a while. And one that I really hope I don't have to go through anytime soon or ever again. Yeah. Mine was just a really long straw. Yeah, you funny. You mean like the ones that they used to stir up little cups of coffee? No.

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Marilyn calling from Utah. I started listening to your show a couple of years ago. and my best friend Camille told me that I needed to listen to this episode about a dude who made a nipple belt. Well, after hearing about Ed Gein, I've been hooked ever since. I just wanted to give a birthday shout out to my bestie. Her birthday is on the 13th. We both love your show and always say that if we ever did a podcast that I would be Mike and he would be giddy.

Anyway, thanks for all that you do. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Bye. Boy, you got to love a good nipple belt. You do. That probably did come off right there. No, no, it probably didn't. But yeah, that, I still go, I have nightmares about Ed Gein sometimes.

Yeah, it's definitely messed up. And the wearing of certain body parts. But so happy birthday. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's interesting because we hear that from a lot of people, even at different crime cons. Right. You know, people, couples or friends or whoever will say, you know, I'm Mike and the other person is Gibby. Yeah.

We hear that all the time. The problem is they're like, well, I'd be Mike. and the other person be like, that probably be Gibby. It's not really, like excitement is not, you know, sometimes it is.

I think you're wrong. I guess I'll get, it's like when you pick teams and stuff, all right, I guess I'll, I guess I'll take you. Take Gibby last. No,

I think you're underselling it. But I mean, that's, that's a good partnership, right? It is. What do you get if you have two mics? I don't know,

and I don't want to find out. What if you, what do you get when you have two gibbies? Again, I don't know. And I really don't want to find out. You can have your yin and your yang. Or yin and yang.

I've told you this multiple times. It's not ying. It's yin. It's mustard and ketchup. Yin and yang. Salt and pepper. Mustard and ketchup. Hi, Mike and Gibby.

This is Stacey from Kansas. I found your podcast about two months ago. And I am working my way backwards. I am on number 109 right now. Love your podcast. Love everything about it. very informative. I love you two together. Absolutely makes my day. I work at the post office, and I listen to you as I throw boxes and sort mail. So thank you for everything that you do,

and keep your own time taken. See, I told you they throw boxes. No wonder everything comes here broken. You know, one of my favorite parts was sorting mail. I don't know why, but I loved sorting mail. He's got into that, huh? It was so much fun to sort mail. Yeah, well. But again, I didn't do it for that long. You know, if, if I had done it for 20 years, what I still love sorting mail, maybe not. Probably not. But again, I will say that was one of the best jobs I ever had. Loved it. So we appreciate the kind words. Gives, we had mailbag. We had a lot of mailbag this week. Meredith Killingsworth sent us each a package from her store, M.K. Lone Star. Oh my gosh, they were filled with all kinds of stuff from her store. So handmade soaps, lotions, just all kinds of

stuff. It's going to smell good. She even sent a box for my wife and sent one for my girls as well. They were so excited. Yeah. They get so excited when people send stuff in for them. It's not even funny. And then Brie Hildebrand, who we just heard from in voicemail, sent us a big package with

candy. She included a roll of paper towels and she told me not to eat them all in one sitting. Yeah, good luck with that. But she also sent two framed pieces for the studio. one says shanked with a shiv and the other says shived with a shank so yeah i like i like i like it too we're going to hang it up hang them both up in the studio but it's so funny what people remember from episodes yeah right one time i talked about eating paper towels when i was a kid and and you know obviously the shanked with the shiv that shivs with a shank that's come up a number of times

because a lot of people get shanked. Remember when I was a kid? I used to eat those $100 bills all the time. You did. But not one. I always had to do at least a couple at a time. Yeah, I think you're like eight or ten is what you were really kind of looking for. Yeah.

Interesting. I guarantee you you don't get that. But we appreciate everything that people send in. We do. All right, buddy. We got to get out of here. That's it for our episode on Brian Lava. And that's it for another episode of,

true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.