True Crime All The Time - Carlesha Freeland-Gaither

Episode Date: August 27, 2026

In November 2014, 22-year-old nursing assistant Carlesha Freeland-Gaither was abducted while walking home in Philadelphia. She fought back during the attack and deliberately left behind her phone and glasses, hoping someone would realize she was in danger. A witness saw the abduction, called 911 twice, and provided police with crucial information. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Carlesha Freeland-Gaither. Authorities eventually identified her abductor through DNA evidence linking him to the sexual assault of a 16-year-old girl in Virginia. On November 5, 2014, the FBI located him at a Maryland shopping center and rescued Carlesha, who was injured but alive. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 257 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? I'm good, but it's more than 257. Oh, it's 5507. I'm not sure why I wrote 257 down. Oh, either. But thank you for catching.

Yeah. I appreciate that. I know we've done more than that. Yeah, I got a little typo going. Yeah. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into the episode? I'm ready.

22-year-old Carlisha Freeland Gather was abducted one night in Philadelphia in November 2014. She survived her harrowing ordeal through bravery, intelligence, compassion, helpful witnesses assisted with the investigation leading to her rescue three days later. So I think already, you know, this is going to be a different type of episode. Right. You can tell that right. from the gig go. In 2014, Carlisha was working as a nursing assistant in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She had previously lived with her grandmother in Maryland for several years. Carlisha lived with her grandfather in Philadelphia until a couple of months before she was abducted.

At that point, she moved in with her boyfriend. Carlisha worked with cancer patients and was pursuing a career in nursing. And we talk about it all the time. You know, I have such a spot in my heart for nurses. My mom was a nurse for 30 plus years. My youngest is in her last year of nursing school. So my best friend's wife is a nurse, just a lot of nurses. Love nurses.

And frankly, what they do is amazing. It is. If you think about it. It really, really is. my youngest does have some pretty interesting stories i'm sure she does i will i will give her that some funny some downright gross um that you know she tends to want to share at the dinner table for some reason of course that's when you do that kind of thing you know i hate that i know you do i get so upset i don't want to think about gross stuff while i'm eating my mules it it really bugs you

It does. Shortly before 10 p.m. on November 2nd, 2014, Carlisha was returning home after visiting her godson. She had just gotten off the bus in the Germantown neighborhood and was walking down the sidewalk in the area of 100 West Coulter Street. At 9.40 p.m. A car passed her and quickly parked, and then a man got out and approached her. Okay. I mean, you got to. to kind of analyze that situation. Yeah. We have a woman, kind of late at night, right, walking alone. People do it all the time.

Of course. But inherently, there is some danger there. Yes. For anybody, right, in a city to be walking alone. That's why we always say keep your head on a swivel. Yeah. Yeah. You always hear about, you know, traveling pairs if you can.

But it's not always practical. You can't always do it. But then you have this guy kind of passed by. on a car, in a car, not on a car, but in a car. Because that would be pretty hard to do surfing on top of a car when nobody else driving. It's not impossible. Seems like something you might have tried in your younger days. I think I might have.

But this guy kind of zooming by and then very quickly pulling over and exiting the car. Yeah. What are you going to think at that point? I mean, at the very least, your spidey senses have to elevate. Oh, absolutely. Like, something's going on, something's about ready to happen. And then it's probably not going to be good. No. That would be my thought. A surveillance camera on Green Street showed a man reaching his hand out to Carlisha and her slowly backing away. She tried to get around him and then he lunged at her and grabbed her. After that, they disappeared from view. another camera showed Kralesha being dragged down the 100 block of West Coulter Street

and shoved into a vehicle. So we just said, right, it's probably not going to be good. Obviously, it is turning out not to have been good. Right. I don't know what, in what scenario this would play out in a good way. Yeah, is it possible that somebody just needs to pull over quickly and jump out for whatever reason. Maybe. Maybe they think their tires going flat or something like that. But when the person starts to come towards you, it just has to be a really bad feeling. Yeah. Scary moment.

Yeah. For her, it had to be, you know, very scary. Now, she did try to fight back against the attacker. And then during the struggle, she intentionally dropped her phone and glasses, believing that if someone spotted those items, they would realize something bad had happened. That's a good, good step to take, right? I mean, at least someone can look at that location and say, okay, we know she was here at one point. Yes. And it's very smart.

Yeah. And I think if like we're sitting here, there's no danger to us, right, here in the studio, and we're able to analyze it and say, oh, yeah, that's very smart. How smart is it when you're in the middle of this life and death potentially situation? To me, that's off the smarts intelligence. Oh, yeah. To think about that while at the same time trying to fight off your attacker. So, I mean, I give her tons of credit.

Yes, for sure. For this. Carlisha said in an interview with NBC10 Philadelphia, a decade later, you've seen on scary movies or crime movies, but the first thing when a person takes you, they ask you for any items that you have, that you contact people. So I figured maybe if I just leave my phone, since I'm pretty sure it was going to be taken away from me, that somebody knew I was on my way home. She said, anybody that knows me knows that I wear glasses.

And I wouldn't leave them anywhere. So if somebody walked by, it was evidence. DNA from my glasses and my cell phone, which had my contact. So again, just really smart stuff. Yeah. You know, most people don't leave their glasses laying around because they need them to see. Exactly. Most people will hold on to their cell phones with their lives.

Oh, for sure. Right? That's kind of a big part of our being anymore. It's who we are. So I almost view this as kind of like a Hansel and Gretel situation. Yeah. Where there's like, is that Hansel and Gretel where they're leaving the breadcrumbs? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. I thought it was, but then I was getting confused. Yeah, for sure. Whether I was thinking about the right story or not. Hansel and Gretel. Yeah. Almost like that, right?

I'm leaving behind clues so someone can either help find me or at the very least realize that something's going on here. And you got to get the police involved or whatever. It's also in chapter four of my book, so the breadcrumbs. As what? A good thing to do? Or a thing that you don't allow people to do when you're out hunting? Which book are we talking about here?

The book that helps you stay safe or the book for budding serial killers because you've written a number of them. Volume two is the one I was speaking of. Volume four is the one. the one you're speaking of. Okay. Yeah, you've branched out in a number of different directions. You know, you can find the whole box collection out there on cell today. At a garage cell near you. So we get back to this abduction, right? Right. The man overpowered Carlisha and forced her into a gray Ford tourist. The abductor hit her on the head with a hammer and threatened to kill her if she didn't stop fighting.

I mean, over the head with a hammer. It's going to be kind of hard to recover from too many of those blows. Yeah. I mean, I know you've been hit with a lot of things over the years. I've never been hit with a hammer, though. That's, you know, I get it. You're fighting. You're fighting.

You're fighting. And I think most people know that in this scenario, you can't stop fighting. No, you got to do everything you can to get away. But the abductor also knows that as well. Yeah. So they're going to try everything they can to silence you, to keep you from fighting. A man named Dwayne Fletcher was walking on Green Street near Coulter when he heard a scream behind him. He ran to the scene just in time to witness a man forcing a woman into a car.

He yelled at the man and asked him what he was doing, but stopped when he realized the man was armed with a 12-inch knoll. That's a big knife. It is a big knife. That is either a K bar, is a K bar that big? Yeah. Can they get up to 12 inches in length? Or this is like a crocodile Dundee's type knife. Right.

That's not a knife. This is a knife. Yeah. I can't do the Australian accent like you can. I mean, there are a lot of different people, people, a lot of different companies who make pretty big knives. Right. But there are some that are kind of iconic. You know, when I was a kid, my biggest dream was to have a Rambo knife.

The Rambo knife? Rambo was huge, right? Sylvester Stallone. And I actually recently watched a video about that knife. It was made by this like world famous knife maker. Yeah. Purposely for the movie. Just for the movie.

And he came up with the idea to have the, the end screw off and have fish hooks and matches and all that stuff in there. The compass on the end. And so, you know, those explode in popularity. Big time. Flea markets were selling them for like 10 bucks. They were knockoffs, right? But apparently an original from this guy goes for big time money.

Big money, huh? But that's what I always wanted. now at that age should I have had a rambo knife no no absolutely not I don't know if you should even have one now I don't know I'm not the most careful person in the world you are not but needless to say I didn't get one my parents were pretty protective yeah as it should be about things like that but I want to get back to this guy right he's uh I think he's trying to help right as a lot of people would if you think someone is in trouble, and especially if you think a man is abducting a woman. Right.

Who's not going to want to step in and intervene? Now you have to figure out how to handle this 12-inch knife. Well, yeah. When you find out that the person's armed, whether it's a big-ass 12-inch knife or a gun or whatever, does that change your stance? Because I think for most people it would. Yeah, it does. I want to help, but I don't want to die. Yeah.

So, you know, I got to figure out what to do. So Fletcher called 911 as he watched the rear passenger window shattered. He thought it was a gunshot, but police later determined that Carlisha used a hammer to break out the window. Smart. Smart, badass. I mean, you got to give it up to her. Yeah. She is not going easily.

As you should not. No. I mean, shoot, I mean, fight, fight, fight, fight. And all the experts say that, right? I mean, yeah, can it increase the level of danger? It can, but in a lot of these scenarios, these people mean to do you serious harm. Yeah. So don't make it easy.

No. Now, again, there have been many instances where people have gone along and they've been let go. So, you know, I'm not getting it. given anybody advice, but I think most people would say, most experts would say, you're better off fighting than getting into a car willingly or whatever. According to 6 ABC, she also hit the abductor in the head with a hammer, but he was able to subdue her. Dwayne Fletcher also picked up Carlisha's phone and glasses and called 911 again after the vehicle

sped off. unfortunately the police were too late and showing up so there's a lot of things that you know are scary here but there's also some things i think going in her favor and carlysh's favor yeah she's fighting like hell that she is you know she's breaking out car windows she's hitting this guy in the head with a hammer i don't even know how she got the hammer but maybe um you know he was distracted by this witness who he then had to brandish the knife and kind of forgot about the hammer. Right. Leading her to get her hands on it.

But the other thing is there's this witness. Yeah. Now there's a witness to the crime. Who's able to, you know, pick up her glasses and phone, call 911, all that good stuff. I have some description of the individual, the vehicle. All that. Yeah. It's all going to be good stuff for police.

But Fletcher was devastated telling NBC 10 Philadelphia, you, I just cried and cried. I feel as though I didn't do enough at the time. Yeah, I get that. Guilt, man. We talk about guilt so often because it does creep in a lot of these cases that we talk about. You know, whether it's survivors guilt, here you have just kind of a, you know, a witness who saw something. Maybe feels like he wasn't able to do enough.

Yeah. To save her. I get how you would feel that way. Absolutely. Also, I'm not sure this guy was armed. So is he going to take on this guy with the 12-inch knife? I don't know what your odds are going to be. Unless you've had a lot of confidence in yourself and you've been through some training

on how to do hand-to-hand combat and get that knife away from him without hurting yourself. I think you're probably going to step away. Yeah. I mean, if you're a special operations back. Bad ass, then yeah, maybe you jump in and try to disarm this guy. But if you're, you know, Joe Dad from down the street who works a nine to five job and where's a tie? Yeah. It might be a little tougher.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're no Delta operator. Yeah. Most people aren't Jason Statham in the movie. No. Where they can just jump in and grab the knife and twist the guy around. And we all want to be that.

We're just not. So badly. Most of us. Carlisha's abductor crossed into Maryland. At some point, he bound her wrists and placed her in the trunk of the vehicle. She told NBC's 10 Philadelphia that during her ordeal, she thought about the 2013 movie The Call, in which a 911 operator helped save a girl who was abducted. She said, I was trying to figure out what the other young lady did to get out.

I felt more safe in the trunk than I did outside the trunk. And I think that that call, is that the one with, what's her name? Barry. Hallie Berry? Hallie Barry? I don't know. I think that might be the one where she plays the 911 operator.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you might be right. There's a couple of movies like that, so I'm not sure. What was throwing me was I didn't think that movie was that old. but time flies. Yeah. But again, I can't say enough about how intelligent this woman is. Oh, she's, she is definitely in survival.

Yeah. Or survival. You actually said it correct. Yeah. Survival mode. Yeah. I mean, it would be easy to just crawl up in a ball and, and just sob. Give up.

And give up. Yeah. But she is definitely not doing that. In Aberdeen, Maryland. Carlisha gave the abdoctor her bank card and her pen, which he used at an ATM. She hoped investigators would notice the transaction, and they did. Yeah, that's smart. I mean, you could give them a fake pen, but why?

You know, go ahead and give the pen, and now they have a way to track where you were at last. I'm right with you, because if you're in that scenario, why would you not want the transaction to go through? Yeah. because you know police are going to be monitoring your your bank accounts, then they're going to be able to get the footage from that ATM and all of that. Plus, what do you care about the money at this point? Well, yeah, you don't. You're fighting for your life.

And you hope maybe down the road, if they need more money, they'll use it again. And that will give the police another update. If you give the wrong pen, eventually the machine eats it. And then there's no card to use again. Well, that's true. Now, some people might make the argument that if you give them the pen, they have everything they want. Now, what do they need you for? Depends why they grabbed you in the first place, I guess.

So it's, you know, there's some things to think about. Police released the surveillance footage of the abduction as well as photos of the suspect at the ATM and a nearby gas station. So they, you know, they got quite a bit. Yeah. Luckily, there was some surveillance around the area where she, She was abducted. We know there's going to be surveillance at the ATM, right? There's a camera there.

Right. But then once you figure out where the ATM is, then you're going to scour for surveillance at surrounding businesses. And it sounds like they were able to find some at a nearby gas station. The ATM images were captured at 601 a.m. On November 3rd, the gas station footage was timestamped. 6.04 a.m. So it was just a mere minutes after the ATM bank card was used.

Carlishe's abductor continued driving south, periodically throwing garbage from the car. In Haver de Grace, Maryland, he threw out a bag that contained a receipt from an Acme supermarket in Philadelphia and a bag of potato chips. Well, it's just wasting food. Well, I'm assuming he had already eaten the potato chips. Probably did. I don't think he's throwing out like unopened bags, but yeah, this Haver de grace, I said that completely wrong and in a pretty recent episode and got corrected. So hopefully this time I've got it right.

You knelt it. I get corrected a lot, but, you know, a lot of times the next episode, where that may pop up could be years away. Right. And so the chances of me remembering it, you know, are not great, but this was pretty recent. So hopefully I got it right. A woman found the trash in her driveway.

Now, she didn't think much about it at first, but later called the police after talking about the abduction with a friend. Because by this point, right, Carlisha's case had made headlines around the country. Yeah, everybody's hearing about it. Yeah. But that's still kind of amazing to me. You know, if you walked outside and you found some trash in your driveway, I don't know that my first thought would go to, well, what unsolved cases or current cases are happening. But I think, uh, you pick it up and just throw it in the trash. A lot of people would. A lot of people would. Using the time and date on the receipt, police found

footage of the suspect on the supermarket's surveillance camera. He purchased the same chips that were discarded along with the receipt. So, I mean, it's good police work. It is. But it's also aided by unbelievable witnesses and people coming forward. I mean, were you a bad scenario, but where you want things to go just the right way, things are going just the right way to help assist the police. Yeah, because, you know, police are usually pretty good at what they do, but they still need help. They do. Right?

They need tips. They need leads, all of that. And they are getting some when releasing surveillance footage and images on November 4th. Authority said they didn't know who the suspect was and were seeking the public's help and identify him. Authorities in Charles City County, Virginia. recognized the man as the suspect in the abduction and sexual assault of a 16-year-old girl in October 2014. DNA evidence from that case was run through a national database. And on October 28th, authorities identified the perpetrator as 37-year-old Delvin Barnes.

The 16-year-old victim also identified Barnes from a photo lineup of mugshots. Wow. So, I mean, again, they're getting a lot of help. That's important. This time, help is coming from authorities in another jurisdiction, but it leads them to identify this perpetrator. Surveillance footage had also captured the name of a dealership on Barnes's car. Authorities contacted the dealership and learned that a GPS tracker had been installed

when Barnes purchased the car and security in case he didn't make the payments. So they wanted this security. That's a big plus. Yeah. And I don't know if people always know that. I think I've heard of other stories before where GPS trackers like this have been installed, but it's not something that is disclosed. Some rental car businesses do that.

Yeah. Now, a rental car I could understand, But, you know, when you're buying a car, I get it. You still owe money on it. But I would think they'd at least have to tell you, but maybe they don't. Yeah, I don't know. I just know I always disable any on my vehicles. Well, I know you have, you know, some pretty fancy equipment to get around, you know,

spying, GPS. I don't know why people are always wanting or you think they are trying to, uh, bug you, track you. I don't know. I go through a lot of aluminum foil. Yes, you do. As time passed, Carlisha's friends and family worried that they would never see her again.

Now, reflecting on her ordeal years later, Carlisha described how she tried to protect herself by staying calm, listening, and going along with what Barnes wanted. She told NBC 10 Philadelphia, I kind of just tried to go along with everything. I thought that would probably be best. I thought fighting would turn out to be the worst thing that could happen because, again, I didn't know the person or who I was dealing with.

So talking was great. He told me stories about other people, which I later found out there were other victims. And he talked about the next, I guess, thing we were going to do and how we were going to escape. So I just got done talking a lot about how brave she was, how she fought, and how it can be kind of a double-edged short. I think at a certain point, she did realize she wasn't getting away. So she had to change up her tactic and, you know, try to be a little more friendly, go along with things a little bit.

And I think that's smart in and of itself as well. Right. You've got to read the situation. Oh, yeah. At first, you're trying to get away. She doesn't. She's subdued. She's captured. She's probably starting to realize she's not going to be able to get away. So then she changes up her tactic. And that's a smart individual right. Yeah. I really do. I do think that. She learned Barnes was trying to get to Virginia to visit his daughter. She said, I know he constantly talked about his daughter. And there were times when he would take out his phone to listen to voicemails. of his daughter talking.

So I thought maybe we could go with that topic. And hopefully it would touch his heart. And he'd maybe reconsider things he was doing. I mean, that's just using good knowledge, you know, what you just learned about him. Yep. And using it for your benefit. Well, I think, yeah, go back to what she said, right? She started listening and really kind of taking it all in.

And this reminds me a little bit of, you know, the. scenario where someone is abducted and whether it's the parents or it's law enforcement, oftentimes it's the parents. But, you know, one of the key things they say is to try to humanize the person, right? They want the abductor to see their victim as human because that may make it tougher for them to harm them. I mean, this guy's in love with his daughter, obviously, so if you can make him relate to you in that same way. Maybe. Maybe. he got a better chance. Maybe you got a better chance.

Yeah. She said his love for his daughter, humanized him despite his actions. She said, I know some people might get upset when I say this. I don't believe anyone is evil. I don't. I believe people go through trauma in their lives and some people just do bad things because that's all they know. Yeah. So I was really sad for him and just hope that maybe hearing his daughter's voice and talking about it,

maybe it might change him to want to do better. Is it weird that she's compassionate towards him? No, I don't think so. I think she is looking at it logically, you know, because being compassionate is good for her. Yeah. I think she's being strategic. Yeah. More than anything else.

Carlisha recounted how along the way Barnes stopped outside a Chinese restaurant and the McDonald's where she tried to get help in a discreet way. She said really just staring at people or trying to get their eyes to look. I didn't want to say anything or do anything crazy because he was holding me. So I didn't really know what to do. I'm pretty sure I could have ran or screamed or yelled, but I just didn't know. I was hoping that somebody would notice me. But then again, I didn't see TV.

So I didn't know what was going on on the other side. You know, and she says this here. And how many times have you been out and seen somebody look at you and you wonder? What that look means. Yeah. Are they needing help? Are they just staring at me for whatever reason? I think there's a lot of scenarios like that.

Not that someone's in trouble, but, you know, you see something and you're like, you just have this feeling like something. like something's not right, but then again, what do you do? Well, I mean, do you call the police every time you have a weird feeling? Do you go over and you confront the person? No, probably not. Most people don't. Yeah, my luck, I'd go over there and she'd be like, I've got a glass eye.

And no, no, I was not looking at you. Yeah, I just, again, it's kind of like the calling the police thing when you hear a noise. Yeah. Some people might, but a lot of people wouldn't. On November 5th, 2014, authorities located the Ford Tours in a shopping center parking lot in Jassup, Maryland. Plastic was covering the shattered window, giving agents a clear view of a man and woman sitting in the car. Okay. Well, the shattered window might be a clue as well.

Sure. We know she did that with a hammer. Because the witness would have told, you know, authorities that. FBI agents surrounded the vehicle. Barnes jumped into the driver's seat to try to escape, but authorities blocked him in with their vehicles, and Carlisha was rescued. She was injured.

She was traumatized, but she was a lot. Yeah. She was taken to the hospital for treatment and soon released to her family. In a press conference, Detective Jim Sloan said about Carlisha, she's an intelligent girl. this is one of the more memorable cases.

It feels good to help out and have a good ending. Oh, I mean, it's a rare thing to hear sometimes. Well, and that's why I said in the beginning, right, this is going to be a little bit of a different kind of episode. Yeah, different outcome. It's very rare that we're not talking about at least one murder. Yes. And it's nice when people get away.

But a lot of crime stories don't end. like that. Unfortunately, Sloan also said that witness Dwayne Fletcher's quick actions, likely saved Carlisha's life. He witnessed it. He watched. He called the police twice. If it wasn't for him, I don't think we'd have the same outcome. This man is a hero. Oh, absolutely. He had a lot to do with it. Yeah, I would call him a hero. I also think she's an absolute hero as well. Superstar. for how she handled herself and all of that. Sloan said Fletcher deserved the $47,000 reward that was being offered for information. I agree.

Yeah, I don't understand why he wouldn't get that. And heck, if you were, you know, if it was your daughter, you'd pay the guy yourself if you had to get your daughter back. Absolutely. That amount. You know, we're not going to be. Well, you might try to negotiate because, that's just how you are, but. Well, I'm not going to be like that guy.

What's that super wealthy guy that allowed his grandson ear to be cut off? Allowed his grandson's ear. Is this real life or a movie? No, this is real life. He was the richest man in the world at one point. Own all the oil. Rockefeller? No.

Rockafel. Getty? Getty. Yeah. I don't think I know that. Yeah, his grandson got kidnapped over in Italy, I think. and he thought his grandson was setting it up and just didn't want to pay the money

and then eventually he paid the money after his grandson's ear got cut off but he only paid up what was tax deductible. And you want to know how rich people get rich. So there's that. Fletcher told NBC 10 Philadelphia the money would help but the best reward was knowing Carlisha was home and safe.

And who wouldn't want 40, $47,000. Well, absolutely. I mean, nobody's going to turn down $47,000. But it would also be amazing to know that you in at least some way helped save someone's life. Yeah. That has to be an amazing feel. Oh, man.

Philadelphia police announced they were continuing to track Barnes's movements in the hours and days before the abduction. They believed he was involved. in a robbery the week prior. I'm not shocked. No. I mean, we, we said, right? Attempted abduction of another girl. Now they think he was involved in a robbery.

It is a little strange that they're saying they were tracking his movements, but yet he was able to abduct this woman. Like maybe they weren't tracking him that well. Yeah, I don't know how. I don't know that we were talking, they were talking about around the clocks or surveillance. The FBI had taken over the kidnapping investigation by this point. Barnes was also charged with attempted capital murder, abduction, forcible rape, malicious wounding, and malicious wounding using a chemical in the Virginia case.

Okay. Malicious wounding I've heard of. I've never heard of it with the added element of using a chemical. I don't think I've ever heard that before. He's got a lot of charges right now. Yeah, he does. Investigators came out and said that there were some similarities between the kidnappings of the 16-year-old girl and Carlisha Freeland Gather. Both victims were held for a few days, and they didn't have any connection to Delvin Barnes. In the Virginia case, the teen was sexually abused. The teen's family reported her missing on October 1st, 2014. The victim told police she was hit on the head with a shovel and put into the trunk of a car. She was taken to the home of

Barnes's parents in Charles City County, where she was raped. Barnes showed her pictures of other girls. He claimed he abducted. Wow. What a sicko, man. Yeah. I mean, this is nasty, vile stuff. I agree with you. He's a sick individual, you know, bad enough to, you know, incapacitate this young girl, throw her in the trunk, sexually assault her. But then you're going to show her pictures of other girls and say, hey, look, here are the other girls and women I've abducted. I mean, share some of my trophies with you here. Yeah, very, very strange. Two days later, he brought her into the backyard. She was. naked and he poured bleach and gasoline on her, burned her clothing, and dug a hole. He told the

girl he was going to kill her and asked her, how do you want to die? I mean, you want to talk about scary. Really scary. This is a 16-year-old girl who's been abducted, sexually abused, raped. now she is naked and covered in chemicals and gasoline and he's threatening to set her on fire and bury her in this hole. I can't even imagine what would go through a person's mind when they're in that situation. But when he was briefly distracted, the victim fled into the woods. She ran about two miles down a dark road to a local business. employees brought her inside and helped her. She was naked, covered in blood, and suffered from third-degree burns from the bleach and gasoline.

Man, that is rough. I don't even know how you go from where she was at, running, you know, running away with all that going on. But that's just in her mind. She knew she had to get out of there, right? She only had a few seconds. So she took off. Yeah. I don't know how much of that is adrenaline.

I think a lot of it is. I think probably most of it is, fear, all kinds of different emotions, right? Changes maybe some things you're able to do that maybe you wouldn't be able to do without that. But, you know, self-preservation is a big motivator. It is. And I'm with you. I think she knew, not just worried about it, not a maybe. I think she knew she was about race.

to die. And so again, we talk about taking a chance. This was the perfect opportunity. Yeah. And it worked. I mean, if you stay, you're right, you're going to die. So. Yeah. Or if you try to escape and you get caught, you're probably still going to suffer the same thing. Yeah, you're back to where you were anyway. And I don't know if that's what she was thinking, but amazing that she got away. WBPT spoke with the mother of the Virginia victim. She said about Delvin Barnes, I just want to kill him. I just want to kill him. And I don't know how many people in a situation like this where their 16 year old was abducted, violated, almost killed, wouldn't have that same thought. And even the people that said they don't feel that way, I feel like they might be lying. Yeah, I think so. I get it. You're not a killer.

but you want to see that person dead for what they did. Oh, yeah. And I don't fault anybody for that. Now, I don't, you know, say that you should go out and take justice into your own hands. I don't believe in that.

But to not at least have the thought, I think people might be dishonest if they said that. They never had it. Yeah. In a situation like this. I know I would. Yeah, I would as well.

I'm having it right now. And this person is not even a part of it. of my family. That's true. I'm so upset with this guy. Yeah. How can you do something like this? You know, it's like you say. If it could just get in in a room with this person for 10, 15 minutes. Yeah. Who knows what would happen? Well, we think we know what would happen. I know what would happen with you. Because you might speak softly, but you don't want to see the animal come out in Gibby. I'm telling you right now. Well, or you. I don't, well, Mine comes out a lot.

You come out more. Yeah. It's even scarier, though, when you have a person who's very level, yeah. Most of, almost all the time, I've probably seen the animal come out maybe once or twice. Yeah.

But those were scary. Those are scary moments. Keep it in. Keep it in. Yeah. Very scary moments. Oh my gosh. So you have this mother.

I understand what she's saying. Now, she wasn't identified by WBBT. but she said about her daughter after all that beating raping choking all of that she got away and i'm it's it almost gives you chills it does to think about anybody let alone a 16 year old girl who is in this situation but musters up the whatever you want to call it to get away i mean she goes through all that right all that then she has to deal with The burns.

Yeah. Right? Because I'm sure third degree burns, that's going to be difficult. They're not good. And her mother actually said the burns on her skin. My daughter didn't look like herself. It was devastating to watch. Had to be.

Had to be. She also had a message for Delvin Barnes. She said, God bless him. You did not succeed. And I hope your ass will fry in hell. As everybody probably feels the same way. Yeah. She sounds a little bit about like Samuel L. Jackson.

Yeah. And I hope you burn in hell. In the days following the abduction, news outlets reported on Barnes's extensive criminal history. And he had a criminal record that ranged from traffic infractions to the use of a firearm and robbery to aggravate assault and false imprisonment. No shocker there. It's not a shocker. Now, should it be a shocker that the guy, is out walking the streets.

It should be, but it's not. Yeah, it's disturbing. I do. I start to worry about our criminal justice system sometimes in that it just doesn't seem to have much in the way of teeth where people just don't get much. I understand reform is important. You want to reform and get these people back on track.

And I think in some cases it works well. But sometimes I think, well, I know it doesn't work. Yeah. But when we do a case and you talk about somebody who's got, you know, a rap sheet that's a mile long. Yeah. At what point did someone step in and say, we're going to stop giving this guy a slap on the wrist? Yeah. Because it's not working.

Yeah. If anything, a lot of times what you see. Is it just getting progressively worse? Yeah, escalates up. On November 28, 2005, Barnes's estranged wife returned to her home around 9.45 p.m. She had a protective order against Barnes due to past abuse. When she went to bed around 10.15, Barnes jumped out of her bedroom closet and tried to talk to her. She told him to leave or she would call the police, but he refused.

as she went to call 911. He jumped on top of her, grabbed her face, and began digging his nails into her skin. Wow. He allegedly hit her in the face, choked her, and threatened to kill her. He allegedly said he'd only stopped beating her if she took off her clothes. She told police she removed her clothes and Barnes forced her to have sex three times throughout the night. forced her to perform oral sex and threatened her with several objects. In the morning, she begged him to let her use the phone to call her parents.

As she spoke to her mother, she was able to indicate she was in trouble and asked her mother to call 911. You know, I don't know how she did that if it was just, you know, straight to the point. But I think all parents and kids should have some type of word, you know, or something. phrase that you say this, you know that you need to do something on your end because your kid is in trouble. I was thinking the exact same thing. Yeah. I don't have that set up with my family. But I can tell you right now after this episode, we're going to.

Yeah. Because you can imagine a time where someone, for whatever reason, is able to make a call, but there's someone right with them that is not going to allow them to, say exactly what they want to say. Right. And having a kind of an innocuous phrase that they don't use ever, but if they did, it would mean, hey, I'm in trouble. That's very smart. Yeah. Yeah. I think you just have to figure out what wouldn't sound strange to the person overhearing your call. Yeah. That, but would still trigger the parent. And it's got to be something that you can work in normally in a conversation. Yeah.

Maybe a little bit easier said than done, but I think it's due. Well, absolutely. It's due for every family. A short time later, the woman's mother and father walked into her home. Barnes became enraged and beat her again. The victim's father ran into the room with a bat and tried to get Barnes off his daughter. Barnes then allegedly began to beat the victim's mother, ran into the kitchen, and grabbed a night. The woman and her parents ran to a neighbor's house to call 911, and Barnes fled the scene.

He was arrested the next day. And, you know, great on these parents. Yeah. Right. They understood, hey, my daughter's in trouble. Mom and dad go over. Dad's got a bat. I'm not sure happened.

I'm not sure exactly how this altercation went down. But it's strange to me that he had a bat, but this guy was kind of able to start beating on the victim's mother and run into the kitchen to to grab a knife and ultimately get away. Yeah, my best little weapon is, my dad gave it to me. He had somebody make them, make him one of these tire checkers. So my tire checkers. Oh, you thump it against the tire.

It's just melted lead, wrapped with leather. Yeah. Oh, that's the great, a great little hand. I've heard a number of different terms. for those. Yeah. They might be illegal in some places. You might want to check the legality of those.

Yeah, it's not legal. I didn't think it was. I still have it. Because they are very, very dangerous. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can really hurt somebody. But if you're in a scenario where you had to use it,

I don't know that people would care about the legality at that point. If you're trying to use it to save your life, we'll deal with that part down the road. That's kind of the way I looked at it. I didn't know I need to find illegal advice, a legal piece of equipment to use to save my life. I just would- I just grabbed the first thing I could find. In 2006,

Barn was found guilty of aggravated assault, criminal trespassing, false imprisonment, simple assault, reckless endangerment, and other offenses. Wow. But he was acquitted of rape,

unlawful restraint, burglary and attempted involuntary deviant sexual intercourse. Okay. So I'm guessing they felt like they couldn't run with those. So they went with the other charges? Yeah. I mean, there wasn't a lot there about why.

But I mean, the ones he was found guilty of, they're very serious, right? Aggravated to salt. False imprisonment, things like that. But it's just strange that he was acquitted of the rape, unlawful restraint. How is unlawful restraint that much different than false imprisonment?

And I don't even know what attempted involuntary, deviant sexual intercourse is. To me, that sounds like rape. Yeah. Very, very similar. I don't know. But this is kind of stuff that, you know, gets people really pissed off. It does. I get it.

prosecutors they got to work with what they have and what they think they can you know get a guilty plea on and and maybe sometimes you drop certain things to make sure the the water is not muddy for the jury and you know it's above my head but this is when I think about that movie with gerar jar bar butler and jamie fox oh a law-biting citizen yeah great movie because I'm like I get why he did what he did yeah Well, again, there you're talking about, you know, what's a father willing to do? Yeah. How far is he willing to go?

He went pretty far. He went pretty far. He's not the good guy in the movie, but, yeah, he went way too far. Barnes's uncle Lamar told NBC10 Philadelphia that Delvin's father is a minister and he was raised by good parents, but he wasn't necessarily surprised by the allegation. Not funny when you hear something like that? Yeah. I mean, to have your uncle say, hey, he was raised, right.

But you know what? I'm not all that surprised by the allegations. These are shocking allegations to most family members. So that tells you a lot about, you know, this guy and his record and what people thought about it. Yeah. Barnes said some men grew up having problems with women. so they take it out on women. Apparently he's one of them. And this is the uncle, Lamar Barber. Right. Saying this on September 10th, 2015, Delvin Barnes pleaded guilty to federal

kidnapping charges. In exchange for his plea, prosecutors agree not to charge him for the case involving the 16-year-old girl in Virginia. At his arraignment, Per A&E, Barnes told the judge that kidnapping Carlisha was an act of desperation and referred to it as a robbery that, quote, turned into other things. Really? Like kidnapping and... Yeah. Turned into other things is extremely euphemistic for what this guy did to her.

He said he grabbed the wrong person and that he needed money to visit his daughter before he turned himself in for the sexual assault in Virginia. And I think he did grab the wrong person. Not that you should be grabbing anyone. Yeah. But, you know, let's face it, this woman, she fought like hell. Yeah, she did. Tough. And she was smart. She did some things that helped her not only get away, but helped authorities, you know, get this guy. Yeah. On June 30th, 2016, Delvin Barnes was sentenced to 35 years in prison. He is scheduled to be released in June 2004. So, you know, 35 years in prison is, it's not nothing. No. It's a, it's a pretty hefty price to pay. I hope they keep him there for the whole term. You know, you, yes. Could he get out

earlier, possibly. You know, I'm sure he may come up for parole. But, I mean, when you think about it, we've done cases in other countries where people have killed more than one person. Oh, yeah. And gotten way less. So, you know, by that logic, it's a, it's a pretty hefty sentence. In February, 2024, Carlisha sat down with NBC10 Philadelphia.

for her first ever interview where she described how she survived her harrowing ordeal. And we've used a lot of that, right, as reference point, especially early in the episode. Yeah. She also credited witness Dwayne Fletcher saying if it wasn't for him, I don't think I would be here today. And she might be right. You know, what this guy did, you know, was amazing. They called him a hero. I agree with that.

I think it's a combination of what he did and what she did. Yeah. Yeah. I think she might be selling herself short. Yeah. I get it. She wants to give the praise to him. Sure.

I give a lot to her. Yeah. Because what she did was amazing. She said she was still dealing with the mental and emotional impact of the abduction. She said, I still get scared at times. But I really try to stay strong because I now have a son and I try to stay strong. for him. Also, I try to if I can't. Talk to other people and reach out and let them know to be more aware of their surroundings. Always have someone you're with, walking with, let somebody know where you're

at. I mean, she's absolutely right. She's lived it. So she actually can speak about it. And we talked about it earlier in the episode. You can't always be with somebody, right? If you're just getting off of work or something like that. Yeah, you could be alone. But where you can't, there is obviously safety in numbers. To me, the bigger thing is being aware of your surroundings. It's why we always talk about keeping your head on a swivel. Right. You know, don't have your face kind of buried in your iPhone when you're walking in a parking lot at night. Pay attention. Yeah. Look around, you know, use your iPhone when you get home or, you know, when you're on. safe on the couch, but, you know, I, there's some things that are unavoidable, but there's some

things that, you know, may not happen if you're paying attention and you steer clear of an individual. Pay attention, walk with purpose and, you know, get where you need to be without hesitation. Yeah. But I also get the fact that, you know, she's still dealing with the mental and the emotional part of it. It's going to be tough to. work through it. Yeah. And get over. I don't know if you ever get over it, but you learned to deal with it, maybe. After the abduction, Carlisha took time off from work, but eventually returns, which gave her a sense of normalcy as she processed her trauma. She received counseling and leaned on her family, friends, and co-workers for support, which I think is invaluable.

It is. Right? You're going to need some therapy after going through something like this. But you're also going to need a very strong support system, friends, family, colleagues. She said it was nice to see your coworkers and colleagues and everybody who you thought you may not see again be there to support you. It was really nice. And I really just realized how much of a family we are and I love them. Well, I think you've kind of mentioned it, but it's important to have that feeling that you got people around you, your safety network. People got your back, whatever you want to call it. She also said that despite everything, she had forgiven Barnes.

She said, I don't think what he did was right. And I do think there's consequences that should be there for him. But I do forgive him and think everybody has the second chance to become a better person. Good for her. I don't know if I could do that. Yeah, I don't know if I'd have the same outlook on it. But that's a very strong person. right there that can do that. I think it's a healthy way to look at it. It is. I know not all of us.

You and I don't think we would be that person who's able to forgive the way some people can. But she said for me to keep on living and moving forward, I had to let part of that go. And part of that is forgiving. Yeah. And I would think that's probably true. Yeah. It is. But I think you're better off if you can do it. I just don't think everybody's able to do. Yeah, I mean, I think if you can get to that point where you can forgive, then at that point, it's probably not going to keep you up every night as much. And you're going to be able to move forward easier and, you know, not dwell on as much, maybe.

But, you know, it's just a really different case for us, you know, as we wrap this one up, a couple of amazing people in the story, Carlisha for one, all the things that she did, how intelligent she was, how much of a fighter she was. This witness, Dwayne Fletcher, he's often credited with helping save her life and catch this killer. But I also go back to the 16-year-old victim and how amazing she was after everything she went through to be able to escape and run several miles to get to help.

Yeah. I mean, that's a tough, tough young girl right there. Yeah, with third degree chemical burns and she's able to to do that at 16 years old. That gives me goosebumps. But that's it for our episode on Carlisha Freeland Gather. What else you got? That's, that's it for this Thursday. Okay. We love y'all.

We do. appreciate everything you do for us and we'll talk to you next week see you bye