True Crime All The Time - Carroll Edward Cole

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

Carroll Edward Cole was a serial killer who confessed to 14 murders but has said he may have murdered as many as 35 women. Cole was abused by his mother and later said that he preyed on women with similarities to his mother as a way to get back at her. Whatever the true number of his victims is, Cole was definitely a predator whose murders became more bizarre and taboo over the years.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the serial killer Carroll Cole. He had a childhood that would make people feel sorry for him if it wasn't for the fact that he first killed a male classmate at the age of 8 and then went on to kill a large number of women. He racked up a criminal record over the years, but, as we've seen with so many other killers, he was let out early many times to select his next victim.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information.An Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 217 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me what's going on? Hey, man. How you doing? I'm doing great. Good.

217. When I look at those numbers, it just, it blows me away. It's a big number. It also tells you how long we've been doing this. And, um, but to think, you know, we've sat down and, and researched and written and and done what we're doing right now. Now, the recording piece that many times. And you have to edit.

And edited. But it's kind of amazing. It is amazing. It really is. Let's jump right out with giving our Patreon shoutouts. We had Lynn Marie Jacobson. Hey, Lynn Marie. Marquis.

Marquis. What's going on, Marquise? Nick Blodgett. What's up? Blachette. Gretchen Jones. Hey, Gretchen. Tom Cox.

Thank you, Tom. Steve Snyder jumped out of our highest level. What's going on, Snyder? We had Jennifer Smith. Hey, Jennifer. Christina Impe. Hey, Christina. Doreen Pohl.

What's going on, Doreen? Sarah Skelly. Hey, Skelly. Susan Hoey jumped out of our highest level. What's up, Hoey? Nathan Southam. Hey, Southam. Jessica.

Good old Jessica. Jessica Dobbs. There's the other Jessica. Tiffany. Tiffany. Tim. Appreciate it, Tim. Diane Plair.

What up, player? Bethany Wheaton jumped out of their highest level. Hey, Bethany. Natasha Nicholson. Well, thanks, Natasha. Justine Spires. What's up? up, Justine.

Scott Hernandez. Hey, Scott. And Sandra Brummet. So that's a lot of great support. Gibbs. You and I really appreciate it. And then if we go back into the vault. Yeah.

This week we selected Sam Stefanisen. Stephaniesson. So, you know, the new support, the continued support, it's just so amazing and it blows us away. Definitely appreciate it. We had some great PayPal donations. Sue Lewis. Hey, Sue.

Judy Larson. What's up? Judy. Catherine Watkins. Thanks, Catherine. And Tanya Bender. Well, thanks, Tanya. So thanks to all of you as well.

Gibbs right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We have a brand new episode out on Angela Marie Hammond. Yeah. So we're headed to the good state of Missouri. We are. The show me state. Or Missouri. Missouri.

As some people would pronounce it. But, you know, this is a tough one. It is a tough one. 20-year-old disappears. the middle of the night, pregnant, never to be found again. And as we always do, we'll get into the details and, you know, persons of interest and tie-ins with serial killers and, you know, all kinds of different things. Oh, yeah, it's a good one.

Because it's always there, right? As you say, when you're researching these cases, unbelievable how a bunch of different killers pop up who were either known to be operating in that area or thought. to be operating in that area. It's kind of scary. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? Let's do it. We're talking about serial killer Carol Edward Cole. He went by the name Eddie for reasons that we'll discuss. But Cole was a guy who murdered women in a number of states from 1971 up to 1980. He confessed of 14 murders and said the reason for his crimes were revenge against his abusive mother. But at times, he said his murder count was

as high as 35. It's a high number. It is a high number and goes back to what we were just talking about, right? If you research probably some of the unsolved cases in these states in which we know that he killed, well, some of those are unsolved. His name's probably going to come up because he's been a a little ambiguous about the number of his victims. His murders were all women who he said later reminded him of his mother with the exception of his very first murder, that of a male classmate and gives this is another killer who seemed to kind of slip in and out of the hands of the police. You know, he was caught for things.

But he was also let go a few times when he should have been looked at as a sudden. suspect and his sentences were very short, as we've seen in a lot of cases. To me, those are always tough because you have to ask that question. How many murders could have been prevented? You know, if the authorities just would have done X or a judge would have handed down a sentence of X. Yeah. And it's always been a peeve of mine, you know? Yeah. Just the fact that the sentences are too light or non-existent. Yeah. So it's a piece. of yours, you know, what do you think the families of some of these victims must think? Yeah, when they're sitting there hearing the history of that individual, it's got to sink in pretty

hard. Cole was born on May 9th, 1938 in Sioux City, Iowa to Laverne and Vesta Cole. He was the second of three children, born to the couple. When Carol was very young, the family moved to California. his father worked in a shipping yard until he was drafted to serve overseas in World War II. And according to Carol, this is when things took a bad turn for him. His mother drank and she was extremely abusive to him. He also said that she slept around with a lot of different men, often while she was drunk.

And Gibbs, sometimes she made him tag along to the man's residence. Yeah. You know, we've seen this scenario before, and we know it can have a pretty traumatic effect on the children. Cole has said that the beatings he suffered at the hands of his mother were mostly the result of her trying to make sure that he wouldn't tell anyone that she was sleeping around. So not only are you cheating, mom, you're going to take me with you. And when we get home, you're going to beat the hell out of me. So she's a drinking, cheating, and beating mom. Yeah.

Yeah. There were reports that his mother made him dress up like a girl in an effort to humiliate him. So, I mean, no doubt. We're in some strange territory here for sure. Right. But it's very important due to the fact that the rationale Cole would later give for his murders pretty much revolves around all of this. I think, you know, in his mind, he took out his frustrations, his. his resentment towards his mother against women who he saw as being just like her because he often said

that he targeted what he called loose women. So these loose women were his trigger. So this abuse at the hands of his mother occurred until he was about seven or eight years old. Well, for one thing, his father came home from the war. And then I think secondly, he started school. Now, I read in a few places that he was a year or two behind in school. I'm assuming, but I don't know for sure that he just started later than other kids his age. And maybe it's had something to do with what was going on at home.

His dad was gone. His mom was doing what she was doing. Maybe she was too busier just didn't want to put him into school. One thing is certain. Carol Cole was horribly teased. as a kid. And you and I have talked about this. I don't know how many times Gibbs, how cruel kids can be. You know, they pick out something about you and they just kind of start in on it. Yeah, they focus and just tear you up. For Carol, it was his name. You know, the other kids teased him

about having what they called a girl's name. And to be honest with you, I don't know a lot of men named Carol. There's really only one that comes to mind and that's the guy that played Archie Bunker. His name was Carol O'Connor. Yeah. But outside of that, I can't really think, I don't know anybody personally. And I can't think of really a lot of celebrities, males that, you know, have been named Carol. Not a very popular name. For men.

For boys. But should you be teased about it? Obviously not. No. It's not easy to go through this type of thing. Now, most of us were probably teased about something growing up. Really? Most, I said most of us.

Okay. Not the Jason Borns of the world weren't teased. Or if they were, it only happened once. Once. My mother hung me on a hook once. That's it. Once. But you have a couple of options, right?

You power through or you fight back, which is I'm sure what you did. What most people don't do is start having these murderous fantasies. And I think for Cole, that happened very. early. There are reports that he strangled the family dog as a child and began thinking about killing his mother. Hell, he was only eight years old when he committed his first murder. Young. So young. That's very young. He was swimming with a group of boys and he waited to get one of these boys alone and then he drowned him. And this was reportedly a kid who had teased him quite a bit about his name.

Now, the death was ruled in accidental drowning. And Carol Cole didn't confess to it until many years later after he'd already been caught, been sent to prison. So Gibbs, I just want to take a step back for a minute and examine these first eight years. There's a lot going on here. There's a whole lot going on. You know, this is a kid who saw some disturbing things. He was abused.

Then he began torturing, killing. animals and then he killed a young boy by the age of eight yeah it's awful now i will say this you and i get a lot of emails from people who experienced horrible things in their lives exactly or messages through social media right some had extremely bad childhoods but as far as i know they didn't start killing people or ever hopefully kill people no they found a way to work through it and carry on. And I think that's the question that we're always trying to answer, right? What makes someone walk down that path while other people who have experienced similar things are able to work through it and lead good lives, develop healthy relationships and fingers crossed,

never kill anyone? I do think it's tough, though, because I don't believe it's ever just one thing, right i mean you can look at brain chemistry makeup dna life experiences the perception that people have of the world around them there's all kinds of things that you can kind of throw into the mix well you know some people are able to not allow it to go that far you know i mean they just they deal with it and they're able to move on but other people just can't and it just eventually it's that point where they do those really bad things. But it's still that question. Why?

Why are some people able to deal with it? Others are not. I think for some killers, they just, they choose. They choose to not control these urges that they have. Other people can control it. I don't know.

I don't know that science knows exactly why all of these things happen to certain people. Maybe for some, it's opportunity. You know, the first time they kill somebody, the opportunity was just at the right time, right moment, and it was easy for them. They didn't realize how easy it could be to kill somebody. And or they didn't realize what that action would do to them,

what they would get from it. And then once they experienced it, they knew they were going to do it again. They had to do it again. I didn't get caught. It made me feel better about myself. Why not? Let's do it again.

But no doubt, I think it's the subject by which many of us are fascinated. The facts of what these people do are what they are. You know, you and I kind of tell the story, but I believe it's the why that intrigues most people. So Carol Cole killed at the age of eight, probably not a shocker to say that things are not going to improve moving forward. One interesting fact is that this is the only male, this boy. is the only male that Cole is believed to have killed. It's the only male that he said he's killed. All of his other victims were women.

Probably also not a shocker to say that he didn't do well in school, right? We hear that all the time. He eventually dropped out after the 10th grade. What might be shocking is that there are some reports that testing showed his IQ was at genius level. Off the charts, man. everything that I read Gibbs said that genius level is 140 and above. And obviously you know that better than most. Yeah. Being a genius yourself, Cole's IQ was reportedly over 150. It's very high. Very high. Getting close to mine. Now, I also read a study that said 25% of the world's population is above 140. And I found that very hard to believe. That's incorrect. I deal with a lot of people.

people on a daily basis. Yeah. You're telling me that 25% of the people I deal with are geniuses, man, not where I come from. We're not, not the people I'm talking to on the phone. Right. Yeah. But hey, what do I know?

Hey, I've been on social media. I know better. So after he dropped out of school, he started drinking heavily, committing petty crimes. Then at the age of 18, Cole joined the Navy. But he didn't do so well. That lasted less than two years. He was dishonorably discharged for theft and drinking. Well, they kind of look down on the stealing items.

They do. Yeah. But again, how many killers have we profiled that have been dishonorably discharged? Yeah, well, quite a few. Quite a few. A lot of them served in the military, but a lot of them have been dishonorably discharged. That's not a shock to me because, the military is very rigid.

And some of these people don't do well with authority and they can't walk to straight and narrow. So it's going to be pretty tough to make it through in the military for X number of years. And really, Gibbs from that point on, he amassed a significant criminal record. This is a guy who spent more than half his life in either prison, jail, or. or a mental institution. In the early 60s, he attacked a couple,

parked at a lover's lane spot with a hammer. Okay. That's not good. It's not good at all. That seems like a pretty serious crime. Right. He got 30 days for that. Just 30 days.

Just 30 days. Yeah. For attacking a couple with a hammer. And then not long after he got out, he flagged down a police officer. And he told him, the officer that he was having these urges to rape and strangle women. So he's taking the initiative and saying, hey, I need help.

Yeah, I would say it's kind of a cry for help, right? Why are you going to this person of authority, a police officer and saying, hey, I'm thinking about committing some very serious crimes here. So I guess the officer couldn't do anything to him. He hadn't technically committed the crime. Right. Just said he was thinking about it. Yeah.

So it was suggested that he voluntarily check in to a mental hospital. And that's what he did. And really, he spent a number of years in various California mental hospitals where he was diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder. I've also seen it reported that there were diagnoses of social. and schizophrenic behavior. That's not too shocking, though, is it? No.

No, I think when we talk about a lot of killers, those same type of words, those same type of diagnoses get thrown around a lot, right? Anti-social personality disorder. Right. Schizophrenia, someone being a sociopath, but eventually Cole left the hospitals and California behind. and he moved to Dallas where his brother lived.

You know how much I like Dallas Gibbs. I talk about it all the time. You just like to wear that hat. I like to wear the hat, the boot, the buckle. I just, there's something about the city of Dallas that I very much enjoy. And the fact that you want everybody to call you J.R. is a little strange, but. Well, I like what I like. Yeah.

But it was in Dallas that Cole met and married an exotic dancer named Bill. I also read some things that said she was an alcoholic. So when you look at that, you can make the argument that he's drawn to what? Women like his mother. Yeah. Women that are similar to his mom. I mean, you know,

she was a heavy drinker. I don't know if she was an alcoholic, but she probably was. She slept around. So it seems to me, and I am making some assumptions here, but it seems to me as though he was drawn to that type of woman. So they got married,

I guess they were kind of living in a motel for a period of time. But Cole began to believe that Billy was having sex with a bunch of different men at the motel. So he burned it down. I'll fix that, man. I'll burn this place down. Now try to have sex somewhere. Could she not just go to another motel?

Did he not think of that? I don't know. Yeah. And I don't even know. she was having said. I just, I just know that in his mind, that's what he said. He thought she was. He did receive a two-year sentence for arson. And I believe he served about six months of that two-year sentence before being released. Now, let's not forget, this guy's not even 30 years old yet. And he's racked up quite a record. I haven't even talked about all of the smaller crimes.

You know, he was arrested in charge for a large number of what you would consider to be more petty type crimes as well that he served time for. But after he got released, Cole made his way to Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri. And it's there that he broke into a home randomly, just picked the house and encountered inside the house an 11-year-old girl. He tried to strangle her. She started screaming. That scared him off. So she survived, which is an amazing thing. For sure.

Given what we're going to talk about down the road with him, he was caught and sentenced to five years in prison. Yeah, but he only served a couple of those years. Right. And, and, you know, that's kind of back to your pet peeve. You know, you call it a pet peeve. To me, it's kind of, it's almost unbelievable to think that a man put yourself in this position. A man could break into your home, attempt to strangle your 11-year-old daughter. Yeah. And he's back out on the street in, let's say, less than two years.

Especially if you go back and look at his prior history. Yes. But that's the thing. We're going to be saying that every step of the way. Yeah. And I know we've talked about it in other episodes. is this something that just was not done in the 60s and 70s where it's almost as if your record didn't follow you around? Now granted, it's not like they had this big computer network and databases and all that. So it was much harder. Made it very difficult. But it wasn't impossible, right? You could figure out where this person was from, make a couple phone calls.

it seemed like it could have been done. Yeah, I think they could have found out probably a little bit more than they thought they would or did. So a couple of years. Seems like a pretty fair punishment, right, Gibbs? No. No. Especially given, you know, like as you said, given what he had already done up to this point. After his release, he headed to Nevada where he attempted to strangle two women.

But again, luckily, both of these women escaped. And just like he had done before, he went to police and said, you know what, man, I need help. I have these uncontrollable urges to kill women that must have been a strange day for whoever got that walk in at the police station. We're like, hey, Bob, you got to come up here. You got to hear what this guy's saying. Is that like the doctor who calls in another doctor? Yeah. Hey, man, you got to see this.

I don't know what's going on with this thing. But again, I don't know what they could do. I don't think he told them that he had tried to strangle two women. I think he just told them that he was having urges. This time, he was committed to a state hospital in Nevada. Now, initially a doctor diagnosed him with antisocial personality disorder and a compulsion to strangle and rape women. All right.

To me, that sounds like a guy that we need to do something with. And urgently. Urgently. We can't let this guy just walk to streets if he's got this going on in his head. We've got to figure out something to do. But for some reason, Gibbs, this doctor did a 180. And he began to think that Carol Cole was making all of this up because he was broke. So he needed a place to stay.

and he needed some food. Now, I'm not saying that people haven't done that because I'm sure they have. Well, sure, yeah. But that is extreme to go to that distance. It is. And unfortunately, the doctor was wrong. And it's going to have some, you know, pretty dire consequences. So basically they discharged him and put him on a bus to San Diego.

Like, hey, you're out in Nevada. You're California's problem now. Yeah. And that happens a lot. Or it did back then for sure. definitely did. It was almost as if we don't really know what to do with you, but we don't want you here. Right. So here's a bus ticket. Go back to California. Yeah. And bye-bye. Goes back to the old sheriff running you out of town days. Like a little bit like Rambo. A Rambo, yeah. If you ever see Rambo? I did. They did not want him in that town.

They drove him all the way up to the edge of the town border and said, get out. Don't come back. And you know what happened? Dyer consequences. Exactly. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about Best Fiends. Folks, you've heard us talk about Best Fiends for a while now. If you haven't checked it out, what are you waiting on? You know, we have all types of guilty pleasure entertainment, reality shows, cheesy movies, even the latest Netflix true crime series. My guilty pleasure is Best Fiends. It gives me an endless source of fun that I can access anytime right on my phone. Best Fiends is a match three.

puzzle game like none other with literally thousands of levels and new content added all the time. I can get very obsessed with games. And this is a game that I have been very obsessed with. You know, I've completed so many levels. But I still get that rush of adrenaline when I'm chasing that next level and I beat it. It's a great way for me to help de-stress between recording sessions. With over 100 million downloads, this five-star rated mobile puzzle game is a must-play. They're always adding more levels, events, and challenges, so it never gets old. And who doesn't love a good puzzle? Well, Best Fiends gives you over 5,000 of them.

So download Best Fiends free today on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That's Friends Without the R, Best Fiends. Now, I know I'm simplifying things here, but, I mean, are you kidding me? Who in the world cannot see that it's just a matter of time before this guy starts doing some really bad things, including murdering a large number of women. Now, it wasn't for a lack of trying, because he did try, but it seems kind of incredible to me that Carol Cole didn't murder his first female victim until he was 32 years old. He had tried a number of times unsuccessfully to strangle women. It was May of 1971 in San Diego when Cole murdered 39-year-old tavern

owner, Essie Buck. He later said that he kept her body in the trunk of his car overnight. And then he later wedged her body between two boulders where it was found just a few days later. That same month, he claims he strangled two more women in San Diego. But his details on the murders are a little fuzzy. And granted, he's talking about these, you know, after he's caught. Right.

Exactly. So to go back 10 plus years and try to figure out what you did and who this person was and exactly how it all happened, it can't always be the easiest thing in the world. Well, I think that would be pretty tough to do. Yeah, like you and I have talked about sometimes I can't remember what I did last Thursday. Now, I'm not a murderer. And I would think if you murdered somebody, that probably sticks in your mind just a little bit more than what you had for breakfast.

I would think so. But if you're doing more than one murder, maybe he starts getting a little mixed up. After that, he had some trouble with the law. He spent some time locked up. But when he got out, he says that he murdered two more women in California. And there's definitely a trend here, right? This is a guy who spent time in and out of jail slash prison most of his adult life.

It seems to me as though the only time he wasn't murdering women after this point, after his, he started murdering, was when he was locked up. Because other than that, he's murdering women if he's out on the street. He's got the opportunity. And he's going to always take advantage of that opportunity unless he's locked up, like you said. Yeah, because at a certain point, I think he would say it became a compulsion, right? And maybe it was a compulsion before. But one, like you said, once he committed that first murder as an adult.

Right. and he realized maybe how easy it was or the feelings that it gave him, then it would be very hard to control for him. Yeah, very difficult, I think. It's a rush. So then Cole got married for the second time to a woman named Diana Pachel, but even the marriage didn't slow him down. He continued his murderous ways all the time during their six-year marriage.

marriage. Now, it was a pretty combustible marriage. I think she was a drinker. Again, I think that's the type of person that maybe he was drawn to. And I'm thinking that Cole used the fights they had as a way to escape for periods of time to commit his murders. Well, yeah, what's he going to say? Hey, I really enjoy being with you, honey. But I got to go out. Don't ask me where I'm going. Just be glad I'm doing it outside of the home and not here. And I'm not going to be back for days and days. Yeah. As opposed to we're going to have this big blow up. Right. And I'm going to storm out. And that's, you're going to know that's the reason why I left. And you're going to want me to storm out because you're going to be upset with me. So you're not going to wonder where I've been. In 1975, he was in Wyoming,

where he murdered 43-year-old wife and mother, Merlene Hamer. Her nude body was found just outside Casper, Wyoming, wrapped in a red blanket. In 1977, Cole murdered 26-year-old Kathleen Blum. Blum was a sex worker who had the misfortune of meeting Cole at a bar. He strangled her and left her nude body in an alley. And then later that year, just before Thanksgiving, Cole claims that he met a woman at a bar and the two spent the night together. He says, when he woke up the next morning, he found this woman dead in his bathtub, partially dismembered. So not just found her in the bathtub, but in pieces. In pieces.

Yeah. Now, I've had some benders. I've had some wild nights where, you know, I've woken up not remembering exactly what happened the night before. Right. I can tell you what's not happened is me waking up to find a dead woman in my bathtub. No. Dismembered.

That has never happened. Me neither. And let's hope it never does. No. But it gets worse. Oh, it gets a whole lot worse. Because, you know, he talked about the fact that he found a foot and an arm and then found slices of her rear end in his skillet. Yeah.

So no doubt, now we're delving into the area of cannibalism here. It wasn't bacon. No, it wasn't bacon. It was her... Buttockle region. Yes. If that's how you say buttox. I think so.

In a different way. Now, this is if you believe historic. But, you know, the question that I ask about this is, why in the hell would somebody make something like that up? Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty far-fetched thing to just roll off your tongue like that. Yeah, I get it that killers exaggerate their numbers. That's happened throughout time. But these are very specific details and probably not too hard to match up to an unsolved murder

if somebody's missing a hand and an arm and slices from their rear end. Cole ramped up his murderous ways in 1979. Because if you look at it gives the timeline, you know, there have been years that according to him, he's not killed, 75 to 77. These are his gaps. There have been gaps. Now, some of those gaps were because he was in prison, like I said before. But I think there were times where if you believe him, he just wasn't killing.

Sometimes I wonder why that is. Yeah, and I have a hard time believing that. But like you said, if he's going full disclosure here, then why wouldn't he want to go ahead and just tell you every person he's killed? Well, we'll probably talk about it at the end. But I said, you know, his number, according to him, has at times been as high as 35. Yeah. And maybe that's true.

Maybe he just can't remember, you know, like we talked about some of the murders he committed. But in 1979, he murdered 39-year-old waitress Bonnie O'Neill in San Diego after a night of sex and left her nude body to be discovered in a garbage can in an alley. Classy guy. Classy guy. You know, and this was kind of his M.O. Right. He would go to bars. He would meet women. It sounds like in a lot of cases, he was able to pick women up. And for the express purpose of sex, right? They would go somewhere. They would have sex. And then he would strangle them to death. Not sure how he did it. He wasn't much of a looker. That's for damn sure. It's supposed to have that charisma. That charismatic personality. Now, I do that. think that again, he prayed on women who were extremely vulnerable, sitting at a bar, maybe by themselves, had already had, you know, X number of cocktails. Easy target for him.

For him or, you know, people that he thought were easy targets. And I guess six years of marriage got to be enough for Eddie Cole because he murdered Diana in the fall of 19. her body was found in a closet eight days later after a neighbor called to say that they had seen Cole digging in his crawl space. They thought that was strange. It's strange. You know, hey, you might want to check this out. This guy's down there digging. I don't know what he's doing. Police found Diana in a closet. But her blood alcohol was determined to be so high that they ruled her death alcohol poisoning. And this is actually something that happened in a number of incidents with Cole. So obviously they questioned him Gibbs, but once the coroner, the medical examiner

ruled this an alcohol poisoning, they let him go. It's not a homicide. They're saying accidental death. Okay. Not sure how you explain why she's in the closet for eight days. It's going to be a big mistake. It is a big, yeah. It's going to be. a huge mistake because really for the rest of 1979 and into 1980, he's going to kill many more women. In November of 1979, Cole strangled 51 year old Marie Cushman in a seedy downtown Las Vegas hotel. She was discovered by the hotel staff. And then just the next month, Cole married for the third time to a coworker. So, I think, yeah, I think, yeah, I think, yeah, have to take a look at that as well, right? I get it. This guy's looking for love. Things don't seem to be

working out for him in that department. And let's face it, they're not really working out for his spouses either. He just killed one. Exactly. Yeah. You don't really want to be one of his spouses. Just a month or so prior, you know, maybe try the bachelor life for a little bit. There's just people out there just have to have somebody in their life at all times. Yeah, no, I understand that. I understand that. But you choose to get married just a month or two after you murdered your second wife, you might have a problem.

Right. I mean, other than all the other problems you obviously have. Yeah, his deck's pretty stacked. It is. But he's looking for love, man. He's getting back up on that horse. Sometimes you got to do that, man. Gotta get back up in that saddle.

You use the saddle? If I'm going to ride a horse, I'm using a saddle. Okay. Yeah. I want to make sure I can walk the next day. Side saddle? Now, I don't side saddle. Not anymore.

Cole had another scrape with the law. Now it wasn't connected to any murders, but he was incarcerated for mail fraud for a few months in a Springfield, Missouri prison. After his release, he made his way to Dallas where he committed three more murders. In very quick succession in November of. 1980. He suffocated 52-year-old Dorothy King and her apartment where she lived alone. The medical examiner's report stated that she died from natural causes. And I think that's another thing that, you know, kind of ties a lot of his murders in together. He was a strangler.

Yeah. But a lot of the women that he targeted picked up, had sex with and then strangled, they had very high levels of alcohol in their system. So I get that where you're doing the blood test and it shows this very high level of alcohol, but are you not seeing the strangulation? Are you not seeing the, what they call it, the paticule hemorrhaging in the eyes, just the marks around the neck? Just don't know how they miss that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's kind of baffling.

And granted, I don't have access to all the record. So, and maybe he was able to do some of these in a way where, you know, it wasn't as noticeable as you would think. But you and I have done a lot of strangulation cases. How many killers have we heard say that it's not as easy to manually strangle someone as you would think? It takes longer than you think. It takes more pressure than you think. and that act usually leaves some marks. Or if you use a ligature,

you're definitely going to see something. Well, sure you would. You have to. Which I don't know that he did. I believe he was more of a manual strangler. But it's a question. There's a lot of questions in this case. But sadly,

they all revolve Gibbs around kind of letting this guy get away with things, right? Things aren't being picked up. the way that we all think they should be. He strangled 32-year-old Wanda Faye Roberts, dumped her body, clad only in a blouse, in a parking lot near a bar. A witness later testified to seeing Cole leave the bar with Roberts on November 12th. And then on November 30th, police found Cole inside the apartment of 43-year-old Sally Thompson not all that long after he's He strangled her. So, you know, now we're, we're at the beginning of the end here. Yeah, it's approaching soon. Thompson was lying face down on the couch. Her pants and underwear were pushed down to her ankles. And this story, it's, it's almost unbelievable. Her sons came home. They found their mother like this. They found this drunk man, Eddie Cole, inside the apartment. So naturally, they called,

police, right? Something's not right. No. Police came. They found Sally Thompson dead. Obviously, they questioned Cole, but somehow he was able to talk his way out of being arrested. I guess he said they had been drinking. They were just about ready to have sex when all of a sudden she collapsed face down on the couch and died. And they believed them. Well, I don't know if they did or not. They questioned him. They let him go. And then eventually the cause of death came back as undetermined.

So I think you have this also in quite a number of cases, right? Yeah. These deaths are not ruled a homicide. So yeah, this guy has a connection to some of the victims. In this case, he happens to be found in the apartment at the time the victim died. Right in their grasp. But you're not ruling. at a homicide. So what do you do? Let him walk. But he wouldn't be free for long because he was

arrested the next day, right? There was a detective who started looking into Carol Cole, learned of his extensive record, also learned that he was living in a halfway house that was kind of close to these three murders in Dallas. So they brought him in again to question. To question him some more. I don't even think they got that far into the questioning Gibbs. And he all of a sudden just confessed. Not to just three, these three murders in Dallas.

He started confessing to all kinds of murders. Look, he's, he's reached out in the past for help. Mm-hmm. Maybe he's saying, this is my opportunity. I'm just going to raise my hand. I'm going to tell it all.

Maybe. Because why else do that if you're not confronted with the evidence that, hey, we got you. Other than you're tired. You want this to be over. You don't want to do this anymore. Now, I don't think most killers operate that way. I think they want to be free forever to continue to do these things that they're doing.

Maybe Carol Cole was the exception to the rule. I don't know. I don't know or I couldn't find where he's ever really given an explanation for why he just all of a sudden decided to start confessing. But he throws a lot of names out there. Well, he does. And I think that kind of bolsters your point because he didn't just confess to the murder of Sally Thompson or the three murders in Dallas.

I mean, right away, he admitted to killing nine women in four states. But he doesn't stop there. No. No, that number eventually, I think, grew to, you know, 13 and 14. and then later to as many as 35. And apparently he did not spare the details. He described his murder methods, the mutilation of bodies. He talked about cannibalism and necrophilia,

which we haven't talked about yet. He said that after he killed Dorothy King in Dallas, he had sex with her corpse. I don't think he can get any worse than this guy, right? mean, everything needs doing, you know. He's kind of dabbling in a little bit of all of these taboos that we talk about, you know, necrophilia, cannibalism. And I just wonder, is that experimentation?

Is it, okay, the strangulation was enough for me at first. And then after so many victims, it wasn't there the way it was in the beginning. so I had to ramp it up. Right. Now I'm dismembering and I'm eating and now I'm having sex with the victims after they're dead. I don't know. You got to ask yourself if he's insane. Yeah.

And that is definitely going to come up in his Texas trial. Cole pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. And we're not going to spend a lot of time talking about his trials. I mean, he confessed to all these murders. but he did testify. And one of the things that he testified to was that he killed more women than he could remember. He testified to pretty much everything, including the cannibalism. He said on the stand, I had gotten out of bed and I was in the kitchen making coffee.

Evidently, I had done some cooking the night before. This is what he said on the stand. There was some meat on the stove in the frying pan. I think it was human flesh. I had gone to the bathroom and found her in my bathtub and part of her buttocks was missing. The feet were gone, the hand, the arm. I found them in the refrigerator. He said he cut up the body with a hacksaw and put it in the dumpster.

That's bizarre. Well, it's bizarre. And it's also kind of strange to say, well, I guess I had done some cooking the night before. Right. And I think it was human flesh. I think you knew it was human flesh. You know what you were doing. I think you know you took it out of this woman's rear end.

You fried it up. You ate it because you knew all the rest of it. You dismembered her, used a hacksaw, and you threw her in a dumpster. The jury did not believe Cole's defense of not guilty by reason of insanity gives it took them all of about 25 minutes of deliberation to find him guilty. I think when you're in the area of 20, 25 minutes. That's one vote. Yeah.

That is, hey, let's take a vote. Everybody thinks he's guilty. Let's get some Starbucks. Yeah, exactly. I think they're like, just do the vote. Let's just sit here a little bit, so it doesn't look like we went right to the all guilty, and then we'll roll out.

Yeah, well, I don't know really what defense you can mount against all of the confessions. Now, I get it. It's trying to prove that. this man at the time he killed was not saying, right? That's what you're trying to prove. Sure. And you've got psychiatrists on both sides saying this and that. He was ultimately given three life sentences with the possibility of parole, which I found

interesting. We're in Texas. Very strange. Rarity. Yeah. To me, life sentence was strange for Texas. You would think death penalty. Yeah, for everything that he's done.

maybe it was because of the not guilty by reason of insanity. They thought life sentence was a better, safer choice. But then to give him the ability to be paroled at some point, I found that very strange for a guy that had murdered three women in Texas. Yeah. So never come out of prison. Well, in later statements to police, Cole said, I went around the country, killing certain types of women.

that reminded me of my mother. I have no remorse for any of these killings. And I guess he wasn't really that shy about saying what he would do if he got out. While he was locked up in Texas, he said, I'll be eligible for parole in five years, which was strange because he wasn't right about that. His timing was way off. I think he was like 20 years earlier. then when he was really going to be eligible.

But he said I'll be eligible in five years when he made this statement. And then he added, if not that, I'll try to escape, which is not the hardest thing to do from Texas. I don't want to kill again, but I know I will if I'm ever allowed to be paroled or escape. It's got so no women is safe around me. That sentence grammatically is kind of hard to say, but. Yeah, but it's what. but he stated.

So it's the way he said it. Yeah. It's got so. No woman is safe around me. Right. And it makes sense. I mean, he's been screaming in the past to get him out of there, get him off the streets.

He will hurt somebody. He will rape somebody. He will continue to murder. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to see that, you know, as we go through. He's definitely a different type of killer than most when it comes to that aspect. So when you think about it.

gives, he confessed to a number of murders out west. But not all of the jurisdictions came to interview him, let alone try to prosecute him. Officials in San Diego said that the murders he had confessed to there, including the murder of his wife, they hadn't been ruled as homicides. So they weren't going to do anything with him. They weren't even going to come out and talk to him. All right. We're just let it lay.

Yeah. We're good. We don't have these unsolved homicides that you've confessed to, so we're not going to do anything with them. That just means more paperwork. It's a lot of paperwork. It is a lot of paperwork. It really was only Las Vegas who came after Carol Cole. When detectives came to interview him in Texas, not too hard for them to figure out that he had killed in Nevada.

So it took a couple of years, but he was finally extradited to Nevada in 19, to face charges for the murders of Kathleen Blum and Marie Cushman. And, you know, I think this goes back Gibbs to this guy being a little bit different type of killer. He waived his right to extradition, even though he knew he could face the death penalty, most likely would face the death penalty. Maybe he just wanted to be done. I think he did. At a certain level, I really think he was done and he wanted to. to pay the ultimate price for his crimes and kind of be done with it all.

Because he said in front of a Nevada judge, I believe in capital punishment. There is nothing good about me. So he's basically saying, kill me. Yeah. I want to die. I'm a piece of shit. You better do something with me right now or I'll do it again. And again, not going to go into this trial a whole lot.

Carol pleaded guilty before a panel of judges and was sentenced to death for the murder of Marie Cushman. They had to dismiss the death penalty in Kathleen's murder because it occurred in 1977. And Nevada didn't have the death penalty in 1977 on the book. So, but they got the one. And really, isn't that all you need?

Unless it somehow gets turned over on appeal, you know, do you need five, six, seven, eight death penalties? Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think you need to over prosecute it. I mean, I don't want to say it. flippantly, but I mean, there is that chance that, you know, that death penalty sentence and or the conviction would be turned over on appeal.

We've seen that before in different cases. So I get it. I understand why they go after multiple death penalties, but they couldn't on that second one. So I think they were good. At least they got the one. So Cole wants to die. He didn't make any secret about that.

Right? Told the judge that. He waved all of his rights to appeal. He didn't want to do all that. He was like, hey, let's set this thing up. Let's get it going. Let's get it done. Time's a ticket. But there were a number of inmates who didn't like that. That's come up in death penalty cases before. So they tried unsuccessfully to appeal to the state Supreme Court on his behalf. And let's face it, really on their own, right? I mean, they're doing it for themselves. They don't give a shit about Carol Cole. No.

What they care about is the precedent that it sets and what it might do to their appeals and their death sentence. They said that Cole was incompetent to be executed. There were some other anti-death penalty organizations that tried to fight his death sentence on his behalf, but he shut them all down. He just didn't want. wanted. So his execution was set for December 6th, 1985 in Nevada. The last night of his life, he was moved to what prison officials called the last night cell. Kind of sounds like a

bed and breakfast. Well, a horrible B&B. Yeah. Not someplace I'd ever want to go. You wouldn't even go to a nice bed and breakfast. That is true. So that is very true. Because I'm in somebody else's home. Yeah. You don't like that. I don't like that. Although I do realize that a lot of people find the B&Bs to be very quaint, very nice. It's just not my cup of tea. No. But I've never tried it either. So I'm saying that, knowing that I probably wouldn't like it. I don't see you ever doing it. No, because I already know I won't like it. Yeah. And you know me, I kind of like what I like. And I don't like to do things that I know I won't like. Exactly how you are. I try new things. Yeah. But only new things.

which I have a degree of certainty that I'll I'll like or there's a good chance that I'll like. Yeah. Outside of that, it's a no go, man. It's a no go. Jumping out of plane? Nope. Never going to happen. Yeah. He spent that last night watching television, reading books, writing letters. Coles last meal consisted of fried jumbo shrimp, French fries, tossed salad with French dressing and Boston clam chowder. You probably could do that, Bill. Oh, I could do. that meal. There's nothing like a nice, real heavy cream-based chowder to get you moving in the right direction. Yeah. Now, I know you couldn't do it because you don't like seafood. I would not do that meal. But I'm all in on jumbo shrimp and I don't like French dressing. If you change that

to blue cheese, though, that's a nice little dinner for me. You're good to go. I said, yeah. I'd have to scrap almost everything besides the French fries and the salad. You mean because the other two things have seafood? Yes. Now, it's not what you would think of as extravagant, as many of the last meals, you know, back from the 80s, because this is probably before they changed it where you could pretty much order probably anything you wanted. Yeah. And, you know, you're not seeing the 18 buckets of KFC, the chocolate cake, the, the puddings, and. Right. So, I mean, it's kind of, uh, I don't know if the word is mundane, but it's kind of a toned down version of some of these really extravagant, you know, give me a filet, a bucket of KFC to chicken breasts. I'd say, can I door dash?

I want door dash my last meal. But I want a doordash from four different places. That's right. He was baptized. A priest heard his confessions. And then prison officials said that the two played monopoly. With a little monopoly With the priest

Yeah No cheating I'm sure he didn't give up St. Charles' place Now Cole did his last interview With KLAS TV Channel 8 In Nevada So I do want to play that

I want everyone to get a chance to hear him What about the stress Is it changing? Is it getting harder? Is it getting easier? What's it like? Well, it's been getting harder Has it since the Friday night

actually but really last couple days been real emotionally I mean not mentally training not emotionally trained just feel tired and everything like that you exhausting time going by quicker slower fast that is that made you change your mind in any way no as it once ever occurred to you don't always occur why not fight for your life I just don't care of it are you sorry for the victim yes yes I anyone in particular? Especially, the one that was the 11-year-old bill way back in 1967.

And even doing that five-year sentence, that wasn't enough. But it affected me, just awesome because I suffered, but I thought about it and condemned myself for many years. Because I can just imagine what her life might have been like. Where's little girl's name here? Rer. What about the religious aspect? expect that it is. Like I told you before, that's kind of person.

But it's there. When you think about this execution, are you afraid that there might be some pain involved? After all, we don't really know. This is the first time that the state has carried out this type of execution. Oh, you know, I said if I wasn't concerned about that, I'd be lying. Because everybody wants to go, you know, ease its most comfortable way. Is that entering your mind though? That you might...

No, you just have to be in my mind. They might, you know, something might go wrong or, you know, be some kind of suffering. But that is not... I'll put my decision. Do you deserve that? I can't answer that question. Well, it's the ultimate question.

It is the question. What I did, yes. I do. So definitely a couple of things there to break down. Very quickly goes from, yeah, I can't answer that question to, yeah, I deserve to die. Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that jumped out of me was him talking about that 11-year-old girl that he tried to strangle, tried to kill. That's the one that he felt sorry about.

Because she was underage. I don't know. He didn't explain himself because she lived and had to go. through the fear. I don't know. He murdered a number of women never once expressed any type of remorse about the murders he committed, but he felt sorry about the 11 year old girl and maybe it was her age. And I found it fascinating that he was just determined and set to have this done. He wasn't going to back down. Yeah, because I do think it's different, right? It's not what you find most times. Even the big, scary guys that in the beginning are saying, you know, F you, I don't care, put me down. As the years

drag on and as the days get, you know, very close to the execution, a lot of those guys change their tune. Yeah. Because they realize the finality of it, now it's here. I don't really want to die, man. No, if you're talking about something that might not have them for 20 years, yeah, be a badass and say a bunch of stuff. But, you know, when the rubber meets the road and you're about ready to die, yeah. A lot of those guys, they really change. And they're like, oh, yeah, this is bad. I killed, but the state shouldn't kill me. And then, you know, that's where you have all that stuff. Suddenly they're okay with three meals a day. Yeah. Let's just keep on with that. Yeah. Can we just, can I extend my stay? I got a good thing going here now.

You know, bingo on Wednesday. So prior to his execution, which happened just the very next day, he was given injections of value to keep him calm. And I don't know if this happens all the time. I don't read about it all the time. Maybe this is standard procedure. It's pretty smart when you think about it. It is. I saw it in a documentary over a execution in Alabama.

and they said the same thing, that they gave them a mixture, the drink that had value in it, to have them cooperate better. Yeah. And I love it when you watch those documentaries because they're so good. Yeah, and you always get those little nuggets. But, you know, I do think it's pretty smart. You know, these people have had years and years to think about what's going to happen. But like I just said, when it gets to that very end point, you would think most people would

want to do just about anything, right? Lash out, fight to keep from being strapped on to that table for the lethal injection. I'm sure a bunch of volume helps aid in, you know, making that an easier process for the guards and, and all that. But Cole seemed to be a little different, right? We talked about it in that he didn't try to stop his execution. He didn't appeal and actually said numerous times that he wanted to be killed to keep himself from killing others. And I think to me, that directly explains the timeline. So we got to go back and look at it. Right. He's convicted in the fall of 1984. And before the end of 1985, he's executed. Very rapid. Just a little bit over a year. The execution was early in the morning. He was strapped down to the gurney, injected with the three drugs that would

end his life. I guess he looked over at some friends. He mouthed something. Nobody could really say what it was, but technically didn't really have any last words. He didn't stand up and say anything. He was pronounced dead at 4.10 central time just six minutes after the drugs were administered. And this came up for me and you on a recent episode. I can't remember how long it took, but I remember you and I saying, wow, that seems like a long time. Yeah, it really did. Maybe it was 12 minutes. Longer than it should have.

Yeah. So this took six minutes. But you kind of heard it talked about in that clip. Carol Cole was the first person executed in the state of Nevada by lethal injection. Prior to that, they had used the gas chamber ever since, I think, 1924. So that was a long run using the gas chamber. Long run. And I actually read something about.

about it Gibbs. I mean, most states moved away from the gas chamber, many in favor of lethal injection. But I read something about the gas chamber in the old facility, the old jail that they, or the old prison they used. It couldn't accommodate individuals with disability.

Like no wheelchair ramp, access, whatever it was. Yeah. And I read something. about prison officials thinking that that was going to be challenged. And so I don't know if that was part of the thinking to move as well, but they did transfer death row to a new prison and they began using lethal injection. You think about all the ways that now in the past that you could be executed, you know,

and I still think if I was going to be executed, maybe just drop me on the guillotine, man. It's done fast. This is done. And you think that's painless? You're not around long enough. They say it is. They think it is, but I don't know that. I mean, once your nerves are severed, what are you going to feel?

How about you and I just never find out on any of it? Let's just keep our noses clean. Yeah. Let's do this podcast and not have to go to that route. You know, one interesting thing is that Carol Cole had agreed to allow doctors to remove his brain so they could study it to see if they could find the cause for his uncontrollable murderous urges. The problem is I couldn't find anything about whether or not they were able to figure anything out.

I think with the advanced technology today, they might have, they might have been able to figure some things out. Yeah, I definitely were light years ahead now. And I know there's a lot of studies, even on the brains of killers that are still live because we have that technology today. Right. So in wrapping up Gibbs, you know, to me, this is one of those cases where I think at the beginning, you kind of feel for this kid, right?

You feel something for what he went through. You could definitely make the argument that the system let him down. It's a real shame that the system didn't pick up on it. Yeah. And I don't know if maybe it had something to do with the fact that he didn't start school until really around the same time that he says the abuse stopped. So maybe there wasn't the opportunity for a teacher or someone like that to pick up on it. But you're telling me the kid didn't go anywhere.

He wasn't outside, a neighbor. Somebody couldn't see that, you know, there were maybe some signs of abuse. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's definitely something to think about. he obviously built up a murderous rage that he eventually unleashed but then you also have to look at the penal system and say you know through all those years of doing what were some really bad things yeah just slap us on the wrist how was this guy let out time and time again either let out

or not really even suspected of doing something that you know when you kind of look back on it you say, well, he should have been your main suspect. Right. And he was questioned and dismissed. And again, some of that had to do with the classifications of the manner of death, right? If you're not going to rule something a homicide or even kind of wait to see, if you're going to rule it an accidental death by alcohol or something like that, well, then what are police going to do?

What can they do? Nothing because they went too far with labeling it. Yes. You don't have a homicide to investigate. Well, we're done. We got other stuff to do. Right. But that's another avenue, right, that fascinates me about these cases.

The slipping through the cracks, the people are able to either talk themselves out of something or they're known to police and police just don't get it. You know, I don't know. I know it fascinates you. I also know it frustrate you. It does for this fact that they then go on and continue to murder large numbers of people. But I'm not really blaming the police on all this because like I said, if you don't have a homicide to investigate, yeah, I think your hands are a little bit tied. Yeah. On some of those.

But that's it for the case of Carol Edward Cole, you know, obviously a really bad dude. experienced trauma, grew up to really take it out on women who he felt, and I'm not even sure all these women were even the way he thought they were. I think he used that. Yeah. Right. This woman is drinking. I think she's of bad moral. Yeah, but yeah, bad moral character. So, okay, I'm going to unleash my rage on her because I'm getting back at my mom for what she did to me. But it just didn't stop there though, right? I mean, he just didn't strangle them. He just didn't he had to go to that other level and have sex with them after they were dead. He would have to. Yeah. And we don't know the reason for the cannibalism, the necrophilia. You could make a case.

You could make an argument that his mother humiliated him. And so maybe. the murder wasn't enough. Now I have to humiliate you. Right. I have to desecrate your body. I'm going to, you know, have sex with your corpse.

Going to eat some of you? I mean, it's just, it's all nasty. Yeah. But he was a nasty guy? He was. He was.

He was a really nasty guy. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear him. Hey, Mike and Gibby. My name is Skyler. I've been listening to you guys for about two years. And just listening to these stories,

my fascination with these people's minds have just interested me so much. So now I'm actually a major in forensic science at the University of South Florida. Go Bulls, by the way. I had a suggestion that actually, you know, hit kind of close to home as a family member of mine. Her name is Marlene Newcomer,

who was killed in a spree in Pittsburgh during the 80s. I just would like to see, you know, what you guys could find about that and keep your own time ticking. Thank you. All right. Well, we appreciate that voicemail. Yeah, we really do.

It wouldn't surprise me, Gibbs, because of the increased fascination with true crime, to see a lot more people go into some of the forensic sciences, some of the psychological type disciplines. Yeah. Because, hell, I want to jump in. You know, that exactly what he said is what fascinates me. Right. Now, it might be a little on the old side to go down to South Florida and, you know, and, you know, enjoying the Bulls, but...

Never too old, man. Never too old. Never too old. I don't know if my wife would like that too much. Well, no. Can I live in a dorm? Hi, Gibby and Mike. This is Kerry from Colorado.

I'm just calling to send a shout out to a fellow Mensa member and mispronouncer of words. I love all the patients that give you shows over the chronic ballbusting by Mike, but I really enjoy the camaraderie you guys have. And just wanted to, as I'm sure happens continuously, mentioned that I am from one of the locations of one of the stories that you had covered. The case from Cheyenne, Wyoming, where the body was out in the mind between Cheyenne and Laramie, apparently occurred when I was a kid and lived there, and I had never heard of it. So I was super excited to hear that, not in a creepy way, but it was super interesting. So I really appreciate you guys airing that one. And just another case from Wyoming that I thought would be really interesting for you guys and definitely not.

Something that's been covered nationally. Richie Junkie, who was a teenager in Cheyenne in the 1980s who murdered his father. Really interesting, tragic story that I think you guys would enjoy covering. I think people would enjoy hearing it. You guys keep up the good work and keep your own back. Thank you. All right.

We'll have to make sure that one's on the list. That's definitely not familiar. So you know that intrigues me when I hear stuff I've never heard about. You get excited. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is Maria, and I've been binging K-Cat for several months now and I've wanted to call, but I don't usually do that kind of stuff, so I was hesitating. However, I just finished episode 164.

It's of Lowell Edwin Adden and the very first podcast of 2020. At the end of the episode, Mike, you say that I think this is going to be a really great year gig, which in podcasting, it might have been, but it's, It certainly wasn't for the rest of the world. Just thought that was a little ironic and it prompted me to call it. I'm definitely not new to a crime podcast. In fact, I was listening to about four different ones. And my all-time favor are a couple of ladies who do an amazing job.

Fortunately, I stumbled on your podcast about five months ago. And it took me a while to admit that you guys surpassed the girls by far because they didn't want to be the soil. But it is what it is. I love you guys. You are my absolute favorite. I love that I can laugh out loud, then get right back into the story. But thanks for listening to me, Ramble. Keep your head on a swivel, guys.

Bye-bye. Oh, well, that's nice. We surely appreciate that. I do. So I did say that. We've talked about it a little bit. We have. And it was not a good year for podcasting either.

No. No, it was not. When you look at advertising and all of that, not good. No. Not good. A lot of work was done. A lot of episodes went out with no advertising whatsoever. Yeah.

But it was tough on. everybody. And it's kind of something you and I talk about when it comes to our Patreon folks. Exactly. You know, that that Patreon support kind of helped us stay afloat. Crucial. In 2020. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby. I just wanted to say that I recently found your podcast. And it's got me through some really difficult time. I just had to move back to Massachusetts with my parent. And let's just say that's a stressor. And you guys make me laugh. And Mike, you're too hard on Gibby. I love your gibbysm.

And just keep your own time ticking. Thank you. Stay safe. Bye. All right. Appreciate it. Always with the too hard on Gibby. Too hard on Gibby.

Woe is me, Gibby. Poor Gibby. If they only knew you in real life. They'd say, poor Gibby. No, they would say, Gibby gives it back just as much as he gets. But on the podcast, he just won't do it. Oh, that gibby.

want to lose his little woe is me image. Woe is me. And you know that is a 100% fact. Hey, leave my Mensa and all that stuff out of this. All right. We had a couple of things in the mailbag this week. Chelsea Hernandez sent you the biggest thing of red vines I've ever seen. Thank you so very much.

It's very massive. Yeah. And then Shelby Hewitt sent us some homemade masks out of this really cool material. they're like 3D. They kind of stick out a little bit farther. Yeah. But it makes them very comfortable because some of the the ones you buy, they irritate my face.

I don't, I don't like the itchiness. Yeah. You want that space in between your face and the mask. Well, you got to have some seal, but it's the way these are made. You'll have to, I know you haven't tried it on yet, but you'll have to try them on. I wore it the other day. It was very nice. So thank you.

All right, buddy. that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.