True Crime All The Time - Cary Stayner

Episode Date: June 18, 2017

Cary Stayner was an American serial killer who became known as the "Yosemite Killer". He murdered 4 near the tranquility of the famous national park. Cary had a childhood unlike anyone we've ever profiled before. His brother Steven was kidnapped and held for many years until he finally escaped. Join Mike and Gibby as they explore the facts around the murders committed by Cary Stayner. Did the extraordinary events that unfolded during his childhood have anything to do with the monster that he would later become? Or was Cary already thinking murderous thoughts before any of this would ever happen. Please rate/review the show on Itunes or your favorite Android app if it allows it. Visit our website at truecrimeallthetime.com for all of social media contact and merchandise information. You can help support the show for as little as $2 per month by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime An Emash Digital Production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Episode 32 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you today? Man, I'm doing great. We just got back from CrimeCon. That's right. CrimeCon, 17. 17.

We're already looking forward to... CrimeCon 1, but 2017, yeah. We're looking forward to next year. They announced it's going to be in Nashville. So you know that's going to be a blast. wear my cowboy boots. I'm sure everybody will love that. Absolutely.

To talk about it a little bit, right? Unbelievable fans we got to hang out with. I thought about trying to list everybody Gibbs, but I knew I would leave somebody out, so I'm not going to. Right. But the people listening to the episode, they know who they are.

Yeah. Right? We spent time talking, taking pictures. We drank beer in the hotel bar with people. And it was just amazing. Yeah, I loved it, man. You know, you and I talk about it all the time. We love the social media.

And this was like social media in real life. Yeah. But quicker. You didn't have to wait for the tweet to come back. For the response. You got kind of immediate of feedback. It was cool because everybody put thumbs up around the conversation, you know, or down, depending if they liked it or not.

If they like something you said, they just put their thumb in the air. So just a couple of things about CrimeCon. And one of the things that came out was a lot of what we heard, Gibbs, I thought you would look different. Yeah. For both of us. I'm thinking that was in a good way. I don't think so. I don't know if it was.

But we're going to tell ourselves. Somebody actually said that they thought you Gibbs in particular would look more like a cowboy. I wasn't sure what that meant. Probably because a lot of folks think I have a little southern. Or all or something too. Yeah. It's just because I'm a little slow, but that's okay. Yeah.

You know. But they did. They said they thought you would look like a cowboy. Yeah. Well, hey, next year I will. Maybe you will. I might even get one of those big old hats to put on. So not only did we get to hang out with unbelievable fans and we got to enjoy that,

but then we got to hang out with some of our fellow podcasters, a lot of them that, you know, I've listened to over the years and hung out. with the captain and Nick and from true crime garage drank beer with them. I mean, that was just really cool. Yeah. Had a long conversation with Marcus Parks from last podcast on the left. I can't even name everybody. You know, Justin Remmel was there and Nina from already gone and Lainey from True Crime Fan Club.

The girls from Insight. Yeah, Ali. Yep. Who else? Lindsay and Haley from Curiosity Kill. I mean, just so many, you know, Generation Y, there's big podcasts, there's medium-sized podcasts, there's smaller podcasts, but everybody was amazing. And the thing that I love about the podcasting community is there's nobody that's unwilling

to talk to you about what they do. Share tips or, you know, hey, this is how we do it. Yeah, it was a good time. It was. It was. It really was. So we've got to get to some Patreon shoutouts, Gibbs. We have Carol Warren that's supporting us at our highest level.

Thank you. Melanie Link, she just upgraded hers to the highest level. Awesome. Appreciate that. Yeah. We have Jolene Piercy is a new supporter. Kim Shang. Alfred Garza.

We definitely appreciate everyone. Current and new, man. Current and new. Yep, we say that all the time. We actually had a couple of PayPal supporters that, I want to point out too, Jolene Overbeck and Susan Lee. That's awesome. I definitely do not want to leave them out because that was very much appreciated.

So we have a couple of big announcements for this episode, Gibbs. The first is we changed the logo. People are going to see that. I know. Because I actually changed it a couple of days before this came out. And I was just telling them I was pretty upset about it because I just got the old logo tattooed. I know. I should have probably told you ahead of time.

Yeah. Now what am I going to do? I like it. It's sharp. You know, there's a, it's almost like when you trade in your favorite car to get a nice shiny brand new car. It is, it is shiny. There's a part of you that thinks, man, I'm going to miss this car.

Yeah. But then you've got this shiny new car. So. Yeah. If you miss the old logo, I can just take my shirt off and you're able to see it. See the tattoo. Yeah. And then the second big announcement we have to make is that we've added.

a new member to the true crime all the time team. And that's Maggie Dobbshootschutes. Maggie G- yeah. Maggie D. Maggie D. A lot of people will know her as Storm. And Maggie's a huge true crime fan. You know,

kind of been with us since the beginning, or very close to the beginning. We've interacted with her a lot. And the interesting thing about Maggie is she has this background in, you know, English literature, research, writing. And as we were talking, you know, to make a long story short, she has agreed to help us out with some of the research and writing. Sure.

Which as people can imagine is a lot of our week. Right. Up into recording. So it's pretty typical for a lot of podcasts to have some researchers. It is. And, you know, with us doing two podcasts, is a ton of. of research. Yeah, a lot. So we are super excited to have Maggie, you know, joining the team and, and helping us out.

So look forward to that. So don't forget to check out our unsolved episode this week. Gibbs, I got to ask, what in the hell is going on down in Jefferson Bears, Louisiana? I know, man. Makes me, you know, flashbacks to the Jennings 8. Right. So we did the Jennings eight. Yeah. And then I think as you were researching. searching, you just find all these other pockets of potential serial killer victims. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah.

So definitely check that out. It's going to be a very interesting case. Hey, Mike. Hey, Givie. This is Becca. And I wanted to give you guys a call and let you know what a great show you have and that both my mom and I love it. I listen to you every Monday morning during my daily commute and on my way back Monday evening. Keep up the good work and keep your own time picky.

Oh, that's awesome. I love that. She's so upbeat. I know. I wish I could be that upbeat on them. And she used our tagline. I know it. That was awesome.

Thank you so much for that one. Love it. Hey, Mike, and hey, give me give you. This is Jason Straub in Houston, Texas. I just want to give a shout out to you guys. I appreciate all your hard work. Be my woman, Karen Lindsay, listen to the show all the time.

We're Patreon supporters. So just thank you for everything you do, and how much effort you put into this podcast. A couple suggestions, maybe do some Dean Carroll from Houston, Texas, The Candy Man. That'd be a great episode. And how about some Texas killing feels?

I appreciate all the hard work. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, Jason. We appreciate it. We'll look into those. All right, Gipps, are you ready to get into Carrie Stainer? This is going to be a big one, man. This is interesting.

It is a very interesting case. You know, Kerry Stainer is an American serial killer. He murdered four women in a very kind of tight radius near Yosemite in California. You'll see his nickname as the Yosemite killer because of this. But what's so interesting about Carrie, and we're going to dive into it, is that he had such a unique childhood. or he had some unique events that happened to him in childhood, unlike anything we've ever covered before.

And so it's very interesting to kind of dissect that a little bit. But what it does, it almost makes this like a story within another story. It's like a turduckin. Almost like a turduckin. You've got this one story wrapped up into a much, I shouldn't say much bigger, but into a bigger overall story. Right. So Gibbs, let's start early life.

Corey Stainer is born August, 1961, in Merced, California. His father is Delbert and his mother is Kay. Now, Delbert worked at a cannery. And one thing I found Gibbs is that he worked 18-hour shifts six days a week. That's hard working there. So you and I were just talking about our busy schedule. That is a ton of hours. That's a lot.

I mean, I'm not a math wizard, but that's 108 hours a week. I'll believe you. That's two and a half full-time jobs. Yeah. Give or take. Carrie's mother Kay worked at a daycare center. Now, Carrie was the firstborn child and his parents would end up having four more children. so Carrie had three younger sisters and one younger brother.

At the age of three, Carrie is diagnosed with trichotillomania. Don't try to say that three times fast. But what this is is it's an obsessive, compulsive need to pull out one's own hair. It's a real thing. It is a real thing. And it can be very debilitating for people.

And we're going to find out. that this is something that becomes that for him because it stays with him for many years. And it causes him problems, as you can imagine, throughout grade school and high school and things like that. Now, it doesn't take very long for Carrie Stainer to begin having violent fantasies about women. I mean, we're talking at the age of seven. Wow. And Gibbs, you and I talk about this sometimes.

We're amazed at what people say, you know, after the fact, after they're caught, as they're disclosing some of these things. I just, I'm shocked by what people develop and how early in life they develop it. Yeah, that's something to start having fantasies about when you're in kindergarten or first grade, seven years old. Around that time frame. Yeah, first, second grade, whatever it is, but it's just super young. He would later say that he dreamed of capturing and killing women at this time, seven years old, being in a grocery store with his parents shopping and having thoughts go through his mind about killing the female cashier as they were checking out. This is like an episode of Halloween or something. The little boy with a knife, you know, the K bar in his hand.

It is very, very young. Yeah. So I want to point that out because at age 11, there are a lot of things that happen in Carrie's life. But one thing I want to make sure that everybody understands is that he has these violent fantasies and he has these things already developed. at age seven before some of these big things happen that we're going to talk about. So let me ask this. Is any of this possibly related because he doesn't have the father role model around? I mean, his dad's working two and a half jobs basically if he's working 18 hours a day, six days a week. I mean, he does, he's not going to really have a father

figure around. I don't know. I can't imagine it because I could understand where your dad's not around. You're not following mom's rules, right? You're getting into trouble. But we're talking about having violent sexual fantasies in your head. I don't think that could come about just because your dad's not around. Where is he getting this information? Where is he, I mean, is somebody just got the TV on and he's seen something? I don't know. I mean, it says, how's that enter into someone's head that age. We go back to is it just a wiring? Is it learned or is it neurological?

I guess is what I'm trying to say. That part I don't know. I mean, there would be some things that come out later about Kerry's neurological profile. And they would say that he had some neurological issues. So that's what I always talk about. wiring. I call it, for lack of a better term,

wires being crossed. And I know that's not very scientific. But I don't know how else to grasp some of these things or some of these concepts. Because most of the people listening, just like you and I Gibbs, they can't imagine it. No, not at all.

Or maybe they can imagine it, but they just can't understand how somebody at the age of seven could have those type of thoughts. So we mentioned age 11 and there were some huge things that happened in Carrie's life. The first thing is that he was sexually molested by his uncle. And this uncle would ultimately be convicted of child molestation. So Gibbs, this is not something that, you know, a lot of times we talk about killers, telling stories after they've been caught

and trying to decipher what's real and what's not real. This happened. This wasn't just him making up a story. It was pretty well documented. But that's not the biggest thing that happened to Carrie at this time frame because Carrie's younger brother Stephen was kidnapped by a pedophile named Kenneth Parnell while Stephen was walking home from school. And Parnell was passing himself off at this time as a minister.

And he actually talked another man into helping him abduct a young boy. And my understanding Gibbs is that the man would come out later and say that Parnell had told him that he wanted a young boy because he wanted to raise him in the, the correct religious way, I guess, is the best way for me to put it. Right. Now, why this man went along with that, that's a whole different story. I don't know. People in power. But what Parnell really ends up doing is sexually violating Stephen over many years.

And this is what we have to talk about, right? This was not a kidnapping murder or kidnapping and then the parents get Stephen back quickly. He was held by this Kenneth Parnell for seven or eight years. And so this is where we talked about. I mean, this is a fascinating story in and of itself. We could probably do a whole episode on just it. Right. If we wanted to. Now, I don't want to focus too much on the Stephen Stainer kidnapping because like I said, it'll fill up our whole episode and we won't be able to tell the Kerry Stainer story, but we have to talk about it because we have to understand what happened and how the events unfolded to understand how it affected Carrie.

Right. How it played on his psyche. Yes. So we're talking around 1972 when this happens. And like we said, Parnell keeps Stephen for seven, eight years. So we fast forward to 1980, and by this time, Stephen is getting older. You know, he was about seven, give or take, when he was abducted. At this point, you know, seven, eight years later, Gibbs, he's 14, 15 years old.

Oh, yeah. And to Kenneth Parnell, he's getting old, right? This is a full-blown pedophile. We're going to talk about him a little bit because this guy is a monster. of the highest order. So 1980, Parnell makes the decision. Steven's getting old. He wants to abduct another young boy.

And he does. And this is five-year-old Timmy White. So basically Parnell has Stephen and Timmy White, but it's at this point that Stephen makes a decision. And that decision is that he cannot let Timmy White, this little five-year-old boy, go through what he's just gone through for the last seven, eight years. So think about this, Gibbs. I mean, it's almost enough to give you chills.

This is a kid 14, 15 years old. You know, he's been held in captivity, seven, eight years. Yeah, abused all those years. Probably brainwashed to some extent by this Kenneth Parnell. but it's when this new little boy comes into the picture that he makes the decision whatever I have to do to get this kid out of here, I'm going to do.

Yeah, good. Yeah. And he does. He finds a way out, takes off, gets to the police. And again, that's where it comes out of him saying,

you know, I wanted to save this boy. I did not want him to go through the same type of, abuse that I've gone through. So Parnell is arrested and convicted. But get this, Gibbs. He was paroled after serving five years. You got to be,

you got a bleep machine. You got to be shitting me. No, say it. Yeah, because, man, I know this is one of the things that pisses you and I off the most. He didn't even serve as many years in prison. Yeah. As he had held Stephen St.

stainer captive. I would... How in the same hell does that even make an ounce of sense? Yeah, he should at least got that. Plus a whole lot more. A whole lot more, right? Like she got that and been putting the same cell with Bubba. You would think there would be something where it's like five to ten times,

let's say 10, 10, 15, 20 times the number of years that you held somebody captive, at least, and he does less? Yeah, I don't get that. Like we said, this guy was a absolute predator pedophile through and through. There's no doubt about it because what happens in 2004 is Parnell is arrested again. Oh, shocker. Yeah.

Hey, we slapped you on the wrist. We gave you five years. Now go out and this is the part I don't get. Did he become not a pedophile in prison miraculously? Clearly, they didn't put him in general population when he was in there. They should have. Yeah, I don't know, but you're right, because he probably wouldn't have made it out. Yeah.

So anyway, he's arrested again. He's convicted. And this time, he gets 25 years to life. Because what happens is that he tries to get a woman to deliver him a four-year-old boy to his apartment in exchange. for $500. I just want you to let that sink in for a minute. He tries to get a woman to deliver him a four-year-old boy. This is not dominoes.

Yeah. You don't call up or you don't ask somebody, hey, go out, get me a four-year-old boy for $500. Now, luckily, this lady said, F this, right? She goes straight to police. they set up a sting operation, they nail him. Parnell ends up dying in prison in 2008. Did he hit shanked?

No, I think he died of natural causes. Oh, too bad. I know you like it when they get shanked. I do. But to that point, Gibbs, is anybody shedding a tear for Kenneth Parnell? I can't imagine. My eyes have never been drier in my life. Right.

This guy had a long, long history of victimizing children. he didn't do as much time as he should have in the beginning. They got him the second time around, but he was only in prison for what, three or four years. He died. Yeah. So even to me,

he didn't do as much prison time as he should have. But we have to back up a little bit because we have to talk about how this whole episode affected Carrie. Right. I wanted to tell the Stephen Stainer story. And again, there's so much more detail for anybody that wants to go out there and research it. But in the time that we have for an episode, I can't go full blown into it. But Kerry would later talk about how all of this affected him.

And he felt neglected by his parents because, you know, they're grieving. They've lost a child. And I think any parent would feel like that. But what it did to Carrie was made him. feel neglected. And the other thing that he talked about a lot was that he didn't think it was fair. That he had to do, he basically had to step up and take on this role in the household of, you know, doing a lot more work.

He had to look after his sisters a lot. You know, basically, I don't know if he felt like he lost his childhood too like Stephen did. in a way, right? You can't compare these apples to apples because they don't compare. You know, obviously what happened to Stephen was nightmarish. There's no doubt about it. What he endured is incomprehensible. But like we said, the bravery that he showed in escaping and he basically saved this,

maybe saved this kid's life. That part's amazing. But because of that, you can imagine this was a huge story. It was a media circus. And they descended on the stainer household. So what does that do to carry? Again, he feels neglected. I guess I get, but then I don't.

You've got your brother back. He's been gone seven, eight years. You would think somebody would just be overjoyed that he's alive. and I've got my brother back. But this is not the way that Carrie tells it. You know, it's more about, woe is me. This is how it affected me.

That's what I took away from the research. Yeah, definitely disconnect on how they feel about each other and during that time for sure. Well, I think for sure on the part of Carrie towards Stephen. Yes. I don't know about the other way around. So we talked about Carrie feeling that, things were unfair for him, right, while Stephen was gone.

But then when Stephen comes back, he has a lot of frustration over how Stephen is treated compared to him because it was said that, you know, obviously the family is overjoyed to have Stephen back. There's no doubt about that. But Stephen had grown up with this Parnell, if you think about it, right? Most of his childhood was spent with this Kenneth Parnell. Sure. That's who he learned from.

Carrie was spent, his childhood was spent with his family, who by all accounts were pretty strict. Stephen, I think, was allowed to do a lot of things, smoke cigarettes, you know, do things that Carrie would never have been allowed to do. They let him get away with a lot of things. They let him get away with smoking cigarettes in the house. If Carrie even suggested that he smoke a cigarette, they just had a hissie fit.

Two guys live in in one house, right he's totally opposite from each other, and Carrie wasn't having it. You're going to do what I tell you to do. You're going to do what Mom and Paul tell you to do, or we're going to have it right out here, right out in the middle of this yard. So you can tell by that clip there seemed to be a lot of animosity, especially on the part of Carrie towards his brother. Right? His brother was getting away with stuff. He's pissed about it. almost to the point of saying, no, you're going to do what I tell you to do,

or we're going to go out in the yard and we're going to fight. Now, Carrie, around this time, he's 18, 19 years old. Back in high school, he was described as a quiet loner. This is a guy that would prefer to sit and draw by himself. Really, Gibbs, everything that I read said he was actually a pretty good artist. He liked to draw cartoons. But this is when the hair pulling, the obsessive compulsive nature of the hair pulling comes back

because he was teased throughout school all the way up through high school because you have to imagine he is pulling whole clumps of hair so he has these bald spots Gibbs you and I know we grew up during this period kids are they were brutal back then oh yeah I'm sure

they still are today, but back then especially, you know, whether it was physical appearance, hell, if they could make a nasty ass rhyme out of your name, they would do that. I mean, you know, you bring them back some memories. I know. It was, it was just common. You know, I know we've, we've gotten into all this anti-bullying and, and stuff like that today, but you didn't have that back then. No, back then it was a, it was a free for all. Yeah. So Kerry graduates from high school and he starts working as a window installer at a glass company. And you fast forward to 1985. Carries 24 years old at this time. And this is the point where they end up making a TV miniseries about his brother. And a lot of people may remember this. It was called, I know my first

name is Stephen. And again, Gibbs, this brought even more publicity. And what it did to carry is it caused more frustration. It caused anger to boil up. I mean, he would recount this later, that he was very upset this whole time about the amount of publicity that Stephen was getting and things that Stephen was getting away with. And here again, you know, I'm Carrie. I'm not allowed to do these things. And nobody's paying any attention to me.

So we jump forward in time to 1989 and Carrie's brother Stephen dies. He's only 24 years old, but he dies in a motorcycle accident. Even though he has this animosity towards his brother, that still has to play on him, right? I mean, I'm sure it messes him up somewhat, right? This is his brother that just died of a motorcycle accident. Yeah, I mean, I think you have to take it all in, right? he doesn't see his brother for seven or eight years. He comes,

his brother is reunited with the family, but carries upset about the way things are at home. And then, you know, at a young age, his brother dies. So you, you just have to wonder how that played on his psyche.

I mean, you and I talk about it all the time. Yeah, it's just a lot of drama, trauma during that time frame for any, any person. For anybody, that just,

Yeah, let alone someone has some weird thoughts going through his head. And that's why I wanted to mention that, right? This didn't cause all of that. It was well documented that Carrie Stainer had these sexual, violent thoughts prior to any of this happening. So I wanted to really delineate that. It sure didn't help it. No, there's no way it could have helped it and made it better. Now, how much worse did it make it?

Right. That we don't know. In the very next year, 1990, you know, at this point, carries 29 years old, and he's living with his uncle. And Gibbs, I read that this was the same uncle that had molested him. Wow. I tried really hard to confirm that. And I found a couple places where it did talk about that.

But then I found a lot of research. that didn't say, didn't disprove it. It just didn't add that element. So I'm throwing it out there. We know if there's somebody that has conflicting information, they'll let us know. Yeah. But, you know, again, it wouldn't surprise me because a lot of those type of relationships that, that does happen.

So. It does, but it seems so strange to me. This is a guy almost 30 years old. He's a full-blown adult. Why would he choose to go? go live with a relative that had sexually molested him as a child. Unless he had no other option. Yeah, it's just something we just won't know, right?

I mean, no other option. Do you find forgiveness? But what we do know is that in December of 90, this uncle is found dead in the house that the two of them are living in. And it was described as a shotgun. blast to the chest. Now, you have to picture that. A shotgun at close range to the chest.

There's a whole lot of speculation on this one, Gibbs, because this could have been Kerry's first murder. That's what I was thinking. It was retribution. Because you see it described as the uncle being murdered. You know, I didn't see anything about the fact that this was suicide. and that would be a, to me, a strange suicide to take a shotgun blast to the chest. Tough, man.

I think the police were able to figure out that they didn't believe. Normally you can tell by the way that the gun falls and the body falls. You'd have toes involved in this one. Yeah, and all of that. But he was never charged, but I think there was a lot, there was some suspicion for sure. I'd just bring it up because I think it's very interesting. if indeed this is the same uncle, he chooses to live with him,

and the uncle winds up being murdered. It would be very calculated. It would be. It might answer the question that we posed as to why he would choose to do that. A lot of the early evidence pointed directly or indirectly to carry. The police department concluded that Carrey's wild story

that some drifter killed Uncle Jesse because he wanted to steal his gold coins or his whatever. That was the story that they went with. So by that clip, you know that the police looked at him. He had a story. The police must have believed the story. So we're jumping all the way from 1990 to 1997.

And that's the other thing about this case, Gibbs. You know, what's strange to me is some of the cases that you and I do, everything happens within a very short span of time. Now, this case has some of those elements because we're about ready to get into the crimes of Kerry Stainer. Right. Now, Gibbs, we don't know that he didn't do anything before this, right?

You and I talk about it all the time. All we know is what has been reported. Usually a lot of it comes from the killer themselves. they may leave out stuff that nobody knows about. But what I find strange is, so we know that Carrie Stainer has had these violent sexual thoughts from the age of seven. He's not going to commit these murders that are the basis of this story

until he's almost 40 years old. Does that seem strange to you? That's bizarre. We just covered somebody last week that didn't commit any murders until she was in her 50s. We did, yeah, old Dorothea. Dorothea. But I guess for me, it's just this is part of what's fascinating.

You know, he has lived with these thoughts. And you know he didn't stop having him. He's had him his whole life essentially. Did he not act on him? How was he able to keep the urges that would have resulted from having these thoughts at bay for so long. I just find that part fascinating. So in 1997,

Carrie is hired at the Cedar Lodge as a handyman. And with this job comes a small apartment on the top floor of the lodge. And this is near Yosemite National Park. And it would be said by all the people that he worked with after, you know, all this comes out, right, that this guy was a hard worker, he was honest.

You know, basically, he performed all kinds of stuff at the lodge. You know, he fixed things, electrical, mechanical. He even did some of the housekeeping duties. He brought extra towels and bedding and things like that. The other thing that was said was that he usually ate his lunch and dinner at the motel restaurant. So everybody knew this guy. I mean, he was very well known. by all the staff and the people there.

But one of the things that I've really found fascinating was that Carrie didn't have a lot of passions, right? He did like to draw when he was younger. But one of the passions that he would develop later in life at this time where he's working at the Cedar Lodge is nude sunbathing. Huh. Yeah, huh. Huh. That's right. Yeah.

It said nude sunbathing and hiking. Now, I don't know if those were done together simultaneously. Yeah. Because that would basically be nude hiking. I mean, I get the, uh, it was a lot of people like the sunbathing nude. I get that, you know. I don't get that. I have no desire whatsoever to sunbathe nude.

But the hiking? And I'm not sure how that SPF stuff works in that area. Down in your nether regions? Yeah, I sure don't want sunburn. Um, but the hiking. Hiking part, that's really strange, man. The hiking. Well, I don't know if he hiked nude.

Okay. Those could be two separate things. I was putting them together and saying... That was a little more alarming. Yeah, is he hiking in the nude as well? Just has the boots on and the walking stick, you know? I don't know. But basically on his, every day off, he would go to this nudist colony and just hang out.

Hang out? Well, obviously, he was hanging out. Well, yeah. Yeah. And you know what's funny about that, you know, how I always post the pictures. I post pictures of victims and of the perpetrators on Facebook, Twitter. Yeah. And now this, this Kerry Stainer is a pretty good looking cat.

Yeah, I think I've seen some comments about that. And that's what I was getting ready to say. There was a lot of comments coming back that were saying, man, this guy's really good looking. Especially you know who you are. Yeah. I saw her comments about that. You're not going to name her, but yeah. She knows who she is.

We know who it is. Now, what was said by all the people at this nudist colony, because after the fact, obviously, is that this guy, Carrie Stainer, never did anything out of the ordinary. He never acted ludely. He never, you know, wasn't perverse or didn't do anything to draw any attention. He just liked to sit in the buff. Which is kind of out of character, you would think. think, I would think, if you have all these thoughts about all these things you want to do to

women and now you're at a nude colonist with naked women and men around you, that I don't know. Well, and he doesn't, he doesn't pick any victims from this nudist colony, which to me is very strange because, you know, if you're stalking or trolling for victims, man, a nudist colony seems like a dangerous place for somebody that has violent sexual fantasies. I thought that was an interesting tidbit about Carrie Stainer because you and I talk about trolling, how killers find their victims, target their victims. It went through my head as, wow, that would be almost an ideal place. All right, Gibbs, so now we got to get into the crimes.

and we have to talk about Carol's son, her daughter Julie, who's 15, and a foreign exchange student, 16-year-old Sylvina Pelosi, she had been staying with the sons for a few months. She was from Argentina. The mom, the daughter, and Sylvina, they leave their home in Eureka, California. February 12th, and they're headed for a vacation near Yosemite. Now, first, they fly to San Francisco.

The mom, Carol, she rents a 1999 red Pontiac Grand Prix. They have a stop in Stockton, California because her daughter Julie is in a cheerleading contest there at the University of the Pacific. but right after that they head out for the Cedar Lodge. They had reserved a room, one room for the three of them, and they know that they arrived at the end sometime early on Valentine's Day, February 14th. Now the dad, his name is Yens.

It's spelled with a J, but his name is pronounced Yens. and he was not able to make this trip. So it's just the mom and two girls. Some of the things that they know on February 15th, the three of them were walking through the park. There were witnesses that would come forward later on saying that they saw them, you know, looking at some of the big sequoia trees and things like that.

So they had a number of witnesses that could put them, you know, in the area. The other thing they know is that that evening on the 15th, they had gone down to the desk at the lodge and they had rented some movies to watch in their room. But that's all they know. Because from that point forward, no one would ever see Carol, Julie, or Sylvina alive again. Wow. Well, I shouldn't say nobody would see them. The killer's going to see them. Nobody else would ever see them. So they were supposed to check out the next day on the 16th. Their room was cleaned. No part of the cleaning crew found anything strange, nothing like that. They'd already checked out. The room key was left on a dresser, but they were supposed to meet Carol's

husband yinns at the San Francisco airport that evening. Because the plan was Gibbs, they were all headed to Arizona where Yens had a meeting and while they were there the girls were going to tour the Grand Canyon. So this was like a cool little vacation. Yeah, family trip. Yeah, that they were on. But the three don't show

up to the airport. So when they don't show up, the husband is obviously very worried. He ends up contacting the police. She's a very meticulous record keeper. She never does anything that's spur of the moment. she has too many things going on. When they were supposed to be driving, we did have rain and there were some pretty poor driving

conditions. At this point, there's probably a situation. This is probably a problem. So these are obviously from the news. The first one is Carol's husband, Yens. But then you hear the second guy talk about that there were some hazardous road conditions because obviously at this point, they do not know what has happened to the three. of them. And they would spend the next month searching for Carol, Julie, and Sylvina. That gives,

you have to think, this is Yosemite National Park. This is not a small area. That's huge. But it was, you know, they had helicopters. They were searching on foot. They had people skiing down mountains and, you know, on search patrol. The other thing they were looking for was the car. You know, Carol had rented this car, they had still not found the Pontiac Grand Prix. So we're about a month into the investigation and something very strange happens because Carol's wallet is found in Modesto, California. All the money, all of her credit cards, everything still in the wallet. So I would have thought that probably threw the police off, you know, I mean, all the way. in Modesto? We know the outcome, right? We're telling the story in a little bit of a different

manner leading up. But you're right. It really does throw the police off because they're thinking, okay, Yosemite, we're searching. Now of a sudden we find her wallet in Modesto. They have to expand by, you know, a pretty large degree, the search pattern or the search area. So the FBI is involved in this case, and at one point, they actually relocate their kind of base of operations from Yosemite to Modesto based on the finding of this wallet. Now, it was said that they had more than a thousand leads that poured in. The family had offered a $250,000 reward for any information that was eventually up to $300,000 in a matter of weeks.

But still nothing. Carol's mom and dad even went on Good Morning America. They were trying to get the word out for sure. But late on March 18th, there was a hiker that came upon the site of a burned out red 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix. The California Highway Patrol was called. They verified the license plate. They knew that this was the car. that Carol's son had rented and they notified the FBI.

The agents come on scene, they open the trunk and they find two burned bodies inside the trunk. Unrecognizable, Gibbs. Oh, I bet. I mean, completely burned, charred, whatever you want to call it.

It took them a couple days, but through dental records, they were able to identify the two bodies as Carol son and Sylvina Pelosi. But where's Julie? They did not find Julie. But they have to believe that something bad has happened to her.

So six days after this, the finding of the car and the bodies and all that, the FBI gets an anonymous letter. And along with the letter is a crudely drawn map with a message. And the message reads, we had fun with one. That's bizarre. Twisted. Twisted. Sick.

Right? You're taunting. Doesn't take them long to figure out the map. And they find the body of Julie's son. Remember, she's only 15 years old. Sylvina was only 16 years old. Right. They find Julie's body on March 25th near Lake Pedro.

Her throat had been slashed. And Gibbs, we're going to get into all. of the detail of each of these murders a little bit later on. And we know the detail because it comes directly from the killer. We feel almost certain that the women were the victims of a violent crime. We're now focusing on one theory that we believe to be the most likely scenario. The scenario includes a violent crime occurring at or near the Cedar Lodge. So that's the police coming out with their theory.

And this is where we have to talk about suspects. We have to talk about how all these different law enforcement agencies handled this case because what they do is they form a task force, right? That's common. Got to form a task force to tackle some of these cases. But what this task force does is they basically round up a bunch of suspects. I mean, anybody and everybody gets rounded up. These are anybody that's a known sex offender.

They round up drug users, ex-convicts, anybody with a violent record. And it was said Gibbs that we're talking about a 75 square mile area between Modesto and Sonoma, California. I mean, it's like a like a drag net. they're just rounding people up and they're actually arresting a lot of these people. And by mid-April, they had all these people in lockup. And they're actually having them testify in front of a grand jury. And just a few weeks after this, this is where the FBI agent that's kind of in charge of this thing, he comes out to the news and says that they have the key players in the,

in these three murders arrested and in jail. So he's telling the public, Gibbs, we've got the people. You're safe. You can go back to living your lives as normal, right? Because you have to figure what this did to, Yosemite is a tourist attraction. Oh, sure. And now you've got three people murdered.

Yeah. Murder on the loose. They've got to quell that very, quickly. And he does that by coming out and saying, hey, don't worry, we've got the people that committed this in jail. He quelled it, then. He quelled it. That's our word for the episode, quell. You always have a new word for every episode. I like to. Yeah. But again, just to run through some of these people, and I'm not going to say their names, because we know they didn't do it, but you're talking about a drug user, a known drug user that grew up,

and lived in the area very near to where the bodies of Carol and Silvina were found. And he was in jail for shooting a police officer, a Modesto cop. And then what happened was basically anybody that had anything to do with this individual, they got pulled in as well, right? You know, drug dealers that had any involvement with this guy, everybody gets arrested and there were four main suspects now these were bad guys don't get me wrong a lot of them ended up going to jail or some of them were already in jail at this time by the time they they got around to them but outside of these four there was a litany of people

that were dragged into the case that they didn't even think could be part of the killings but they were either a girlfriend of some of these people or friends of these people. So I'm just trying to put the scope on how big of an operation this was and how many people got dragged into it. They just cast a big old net. They did. Yeah. And you were hooked in. Yeah.

If you were a known associate of any of these main four suspects that they had originally, you got you got pulled in. to this thing. And at some point, all of these people's names and information was printed in the newspaper. So think about that. Well,

I think they're probably trying to pressure if anybody did know anything, had any type of knowledge. I think that's a good way to pressure somebody in the talking. There's no doubt about it. So they come out and they say that even though they haven't charged these people with the murders, they feel like they've got the right guys, these four guys in particular, and they're behind bars.

So don't worry America, come to Yosemite, travel, see the park, don't worry about it. We got it under control is basically the message. One person that is questioned at this point in time is Carrie Stainer because he worked at the lodge where Carol and Julie and Silvino were last seen. But he was pretty quickly dismissed, right? This was more routine than anything. They were questioning all of the staff members of the lodge. And I think just as part of that, he got questioned.

But if you see his picture, you know, he's a clean cut guy. He had no record, really, of any type of violence. There was nothing that would make him. stand out as, oh, we got to really look at this guy. But something would happen about three weeks after the FBI makes this statement that, hey, everything's okay. And that is, there's a fourth victim murdered within just a few miles of the Cedar Lodge. So Gibbs, on the morning of July 22nd, Park Rangers find the headless body of a woman.

name Joy Armstrong. And Joy Armstrong was a naturalist at the Yosemite National Park. She worked there. And it was said Gibbs that, you know, she was full of energy and enthusiasm. That Armstrong loved children. She loved nature. She just loved teaching. She loved telling people about the park.

I read so much stuff about her. And it was, I mean, everything. was unbelievable. I mean, this was just a young woman that just loved doing what she was doing, teaching kids and families and whoever about the wonders of Yosemite. Now, because she worked there, she actually lived in a cabin in this little community that they had for park workers. And they found her body somewhat close to these cabins. Now, they would find her head about 27 feet away. from the body. So she, you know, we talk about being decapitated.

She was fully decapitated. No mistake in that. No. And it was actually a station in Sacramento that was the first to leak the news that she had been decapitated because I think for a while they were kind of holding that back. But somehow the news got a hold of that information and they leaked it out. Now investigators determined that she was murdered the day before. Wednesday, July 21st.

And they also figured out that she had actually been seen that day at the offices there at the park. And this was very close to where Carol, her daughter, and Sylvina were found earlier. Right back in February. So we're talking about, what, five months has passed? Yeah. Since the previous murders. Pretty good gap. But you have to think about what?

What did this do? Right? Because the FBI has come out and said, don't worry, we've got the killers in custody. Yeah. Everything's safe. Bring your family.

Go hiking. And now all of a sudden, an actual park worker is killed and not just killed, decapitated. And we're going to have some more details. Like I said, we kind of did this one a little different. A lot of the details come further on.

But you have to figure that this put everybody right back into that state of panic and concern and all of that. Sure, killer on the loose. Are we looking at those similarities? Yeah, we're looking at those similarities. Have we excluded all possible linkage? No, we haven't excluded all possible linkage. But right now we don't have any indication of such a linkage.

It was almost like in your face. I'm part of this thing and you guys aren't paying any attention to me and I'll go out and murder someone else so I'll get some attention. So a couple of things gives from that clip. Yeah. Number one, I think they feel like early on that this is probably related, but they don't have the evidence to tie it. And then you have the second guy who's saying that what they thought was nobody's given me credit for the three murders I committed because you're saying you already, you already have the people. well, I'm going to show you

and I'm going to commit another murder to let you know that I'm still out here. Yeah. Somebody that doesn't, kind of an issue with, or jealousy issue with people getting and are not getting attention. Does that make sense?

Well, and we know that Carrie Stainer had that issue with his brother Stephen. So maybe this is how he acts out. But Gibbs, police would catch a break on this Armstrong murder.

because they had some eyewitnesses that saw a 1979 international scout parked outside of her cabin. And police were able to narrow this down and trace the vehicle back to Carrie Stainer. And this all happened very quickly because within 48 hours of the killing of Joy Armstrong, that same FBI agent that was kind of in charge of everything, he held a press conference and announced that they had somebody in custody.

So they had picked up Kerry Stainer already within the first 48 hours. So we know that they had already questioned Kerry after the first three murders. Now they're questioning him again. FBI agents search his truck. They confiscate some of his belongings. They're looking through that stuff, his backpack, things like that. But they actually release him. But they tell him not to leave because they're going to want to talk to him again.

At this point, they don't have anything to hold him on. It's just kind of like Dorothea last week. Where she walked away and got the coffee. A cup of coffee and didn't come back. Kind of, but he goes to a different place. Now later on that day, after he's already been released, they actually search his apartment. And again, I don't understand the timing of some of this. I don't know why they couldn't have searched it.

Maybe they didn't get the warrant in time. They had to release him. I'm not sure, Gibbs, but it was said that it was searched after he was released. They discover evidence inside his apartment that would link him to the armed. Armstrong murder. And they also discover some things in there Gibbs linking him to the other three murders. So now they're ready to go and arrest him. But like you kind of foreshadowed, like Dorothea, he's gone.

But he didn't go and get coffee. He goes to the nudist colony. Oh. Because, you know, the police are questioning me. They might be closing in on me. I got to let my freak flag fly. Yeah. Let things hang out.

But he's got to let it all hang out while it may be his last time. But somebody at the nudist colony actually recognized him from television news. And they call the FBI. So the FBI come getting. Not too big a deal. Not sure how the pat down went. Yeah. Pretty easy pat down.

I'm thinking. I would think so. Yeah. So they've got him. They arrest him. And then something. strange happens because somehow there's a reporter that gets an interview with Stainer very early on like really quickly after his arrest and during this interview he basically says i'm guilty

i committed the murder of carol and julie son sylvina peloso and joya armstrong and then he goes on to say none of the women were sexually abused in any way he just took one sigh and went right into it saying I am guilty and said I killed Carol's son, Julie's son, Sylvina Pelosi, and Joey Armstrong. He said that he had been fighting back urges since he was a kid basically for 30 years and this was the first time that he acted on it. He said that he was at the lodge the night that he killed Carol's son and Julie son and Sylvia Pelosi. So that was the reporter talking about his interview with Carrie Stainer. Now, after this, Stainer has his police interviews.

And this is where all of the details come out. Like he said to the reporter, he talked about how he had been fantasizing about killing women for the last 30 years. And he describes in detail how he murdered each of the four victims. So what Stainer says is that he had spied on Carol's son and her daughter and Sylvina drew the window at the lodge. And he had decided right then that he was going to murder all three. So he entered their room and he says that Carol was reading a book and the two girls were watching a movie.

So what Stanner would say was that he knocked on their hotel room door and he said that he was there to fix a fan in the bathroom. But once he got inside, he pulled his gun. He told Carol and the two girls that he was desperate and he ordered all three of them to lie on the bed. He bound their hands with duct tape and he gagged them. And then he took the two girls into the bathroom. So he murders Carol the mom first. And he says that he strangles her with a piece of rope. And in his own words, he said it took about five minutes and that he didn't realize how hard it was to strangle a person.

It's not like it is in the movies. No, it's not. And he says this in his taped confession. He says it's not easy. But he also says that he had very. little feeling about it all. He likened it to performing any other task.

Right? It was just like something he did. He didn't have like a flood of emotion or feeling running through him when he did it. So it's just an unemotional task for him. Yes. So after he murders Carol, he puts her in the trunk of the Grand Prix.

He next strangles Sylvina in the bathtub. But he doesn't murder Julie at the hotel or the motel. He sexually assaults her. So in his interview to the reporter, he lied, right? Because he said, I never sexually assaulted them. Yeah, he lied because we're going to find out that, and Julie wasn't the only person. So he definitely lied in that interview.

He was trying to make himself look better for sure. Right. But Julie is still gagged and bound. And she's on the bed. and this is when he takes the time to take Sylvina's body out, put it in the trunk, and then he cleans up the room. And this is where he makes it look like the women had checked out. He takes all of their stuff, puts it in the car, leaves the key on the dresser like we talked about in the beginning.

Kind of smart. Sure. If you think about it. Oh, yeah. But Stainer says one thing in his confession that I really found fast. He says that this was the first time in his life that he felt like he was in control. I took a lot from that, Gibbs. I mean, this is a man and a back then a boy who felt like he had no control in his life.

And a lot of people feel like that, right? Especially as a child, you don't have much control, right? But to say that this is the first time that he ever felt like he was in control. Well, he's taking a life, man. That's control. You're controlling another human being. Yeah. And making the decision on whether they live or die. Sure. And they're going to react to you based off of that, right?

So again, the controlling, because if you tell them to do something, they're going to want to do it to survive. The other interesting fact Gibbs that he talks about. about in his interview is he's asked a question by the FBI agent why he cleaned the room so completely, you know, even going as far as trying to make sure that none of his hairs were on the bed sheet and things like that. And his response was, I watched the Discovery Channel. I found that fascinating as well because how many crime shows are out there, how many podcasts, to be honest with you, you can learn a hell of a lot from watching CSI or the dozens and dozens of Discovery Channel shows, true crime shows. So somebody one day going to say, I just hung out and listened to true crime all the time.

I hope not. I'm happy that people are listening, but I hope it doesn't come to that. Don't want that type of listener. So around 4 a.m. Stainer takes Julie. she's naked and he wraps her in a blanket puts her in the rental car and drives away

and he would say in his confession tape that he really had no plan he didn't know what he was going to do didn't know where he was going to go but he would also say that he liked Julie he had come to really like her in his own

words he didn't know her name was Julie she had told him that her name was Sarah. So he called her Sarah. So the son's starting to come out. He's driving. He's trying to figure out what to do. And this is when he turns off at Lake Pedro. And he takes Julie up a dirt path and he sexually assaults her another time. And this is where he says, I told her, I wish I could keep her. And he says he laid her down on the ground. He brushed her hair out of her face. He told her that he loved her. And then he cut her throat. Yeah, it's what you do. I love you. And then, I mean, just think about that. Yeah. And again, he's relaying all of this to the FBI agents on tape.

And what he says is that I didn't want her to suffer the way the other two did. I mean, just, you know, think about that logic. This is a young girl that he has sexually assaulted multiple times, but yet he's taught. And we go back to this Gibbs, right? In other cases where the perpetrator wants to make people think that they, they took care of the victim. They were merciful or accommodating, right?

We've talked about people putting pillows. underneath the heads of the victims and then killing them so that they didn't have to lay on the floor without a pillow. Some of this stuff boggles my mind. It just, it really does. So after he murders Julie, he hides her body in the brush. And again,

this is the reason why Julie's body is found away from the car, right? Because he drives the car. he's got Carol and Savina's body in the trunk and he drives it into the forest and then he catches a cab using money that he had taken from Carol's purse

but he doesn't set the car on fire right if you remember we talked about the car is found burned it's not until two days later that he comes back with the gasoline to light the car on fire and then he drives two hours to Modesto throws her wallet out of the car

out of his truck or car or whatever and this is how you know we talked about that the police it really threw the police off track a little so he was very calculating in how he did some of these things so then he goes on to talk about Joy Armstrong and he would say

that Joy caught his eye It was said that she was pretty. She was a pretty redhead. Yeah. Whatever it was about her. And again, by everything I read Gibbs, she was just a great person. Not that these other ones weren't. They were two, right?

You got a mom. You got a 15-year-old girl, Julie. You got 16-year-old Savina. I mean, they're just getting ready to get their life started. Well, and he probably had more of, I want to say, relationship, but, you know, they're working in the same park, right? He's at the lodge and she's a naturalist, so I'm sure that they pass each other now and then. Yeah, he might have even, I didn't have any evidence to it, but he might have even had seen her before.

But what he says to police is that she caught his eye. Yeah. And he ends up attacking her in her cabin, ties her up. And I think Gibbs that his plan was to sexually assault her. But I'm not sure that he got the chance because she fought him and tried to escape. And he explains her murder to police by saying, I lost control of myself, lost control of her. And things went sideways. And they went sideways.

Sideways. Yeah. They went sideways very quickly. Right. Because he says, When all of this started out, he had no intentions of cutting her head off. So I take that to mean that none of this went the way that he thought it was or that he thought it would go. In his head, he had it going a certain way.

And when he didn't get to do what he wanted because she fought him, she tried to escape, was there just so much rage that had built up over that that he didn't. that he went overboard. Because what else can you call it? When you completely decapitate somebody... Well, that's overboard. I mean, the rage that someone would have to feel to do something like that, it's so extreme.

It's just... I can't comprehend it, you know? I mean, you could simply just kill the person, but to go to the extent that you decapitate their head from their body, I mean, that's just a lot of effort. Well, and he didn't do that, right? He cut Julie's throat, but he didn't decapitate her. And I guess that's where maybe I'm making the distinction that this was just, he was so enraged.

They just couldn't control himself and ended up cutting through her neck completely because of this rage. Now, as he's ending this interview, he addresses the victim's families. And what he says Gibbs is that I'm sorry their loved ones were where they were when they were. Do what? Let me say it again. I want everybody to make sure they get this. I am sorry their loved ones were where they were when they were. So basically he is saying wrong place, wrong time.

Now he does go on to say, I wish I could have controlled myself and not to be. done what I did. To tell a victim's family, not that I'm sorry that I killed your loved one, I'm sorry that they were in the place they were when they were. Right. That's the biggest load of bullshit. Absolutely. More than a cop out. It's a, it's not an I'm sorry. Right. You're basically saying, you know, it's too bad that they chose to come to Cedar Lodge. That's basically what you're saying. Yeah. To the victim's family. you would let them go to a different lodge, they still be here today. Yeah.

If they came to my lodge, man, and you come to my lodge, this is what happens. That is, it's just horrible. You're just adding, you're just adding on. Yeah. To what you've already done. So a couple of things that come out from the FBI, they know from the confession that Carrie Stainer is the murderer because he had the details that were so specific, no, Number one, nobody else could have known them.

And number two, his details allowed the FBI to recover evidence, which backed up his confession, right? So this is not just a confession with no evidence. And I want to talk a little bit about the evidence because they were actually able to recover some of the knives that were used and confirm that they were the murder weapons. one thing that would come out and you touched on it Gibbs is him saying to that reporter, I didn't sexually assault anyone. Well, they were able to confirm that he did assault both Julie Sund and Sylvina Pelosi. And like I said,

I think his mission was to sexually assault Joy Armstrong. I don't think. she let him do it. She fought him off. She fought him hard. She tried to run. And because of that, he ended up killing her. Now, we talked about Stainer trying to clean up the room, right?

Because he had watched Discovery and he was so good. He knew what he needed to do. But he wasn't as good as he thought he was. And Gibbs, I don't care how much TV you watch, you're not going to be able to clean up. it's going to be very difficult. Let's put it that way to get rid of any trace evidence because the FBI, they're able to find, you know, some of his hairs. You know, they've got like those special vacuums and stuff. They find his hairs.

They find some body fluid on a blanket. And they also find a palm print on the windowsill. Now that one, that could probably maybe be explained. He did work there. I guess my point is they've got a ton of evidence. It looks like the only way to do it is to burn the place down. And it's maybe why he burned the car. And then you get to the Armstrong murder evidence.

And again, they vacuumed up from inside of her cabin and found hair evidence. The other thing that they had Gibbs talking about fingerprints. is they actually were able to lift some fingerprints from the inside of Joy's truck because Carrie Stainer admits to being in and around her truck during the murder. All right, Gibbs, so we've got to get to the trial. And Carrie Stainer pleads guilty to the murder of Joy Armstrong. And for that, he gets a life sentence. Yay.

but in the for the other three victims this was going to be a death penalty trial but i think because of that he pleads not guilty by reason of insanity so i don't know how you plead guilty to one if you're going to plead guilty to being insane the first one would have been the one to complete plead that to right i mean the one where he decapitated you would think so they have the trial We're not going to spend a ton of time on the trial, right? This is kind of slam dunk material here. Yes.

They have his tape confession, which is played to the jury. They have all this trace evidence, fibers, hair, all of that, very strong. But you know that this confession played to the jury had to have been very powerful, right? Because he describes indeed. like we said, how he killed Carol's son, Julie, son, Sylvina Pelosi, not only how he killed them, but what he did to try to cover it up after the fact. So there really was no issue about whether or not Kerry Stainer committed these murders, right? That was not an issue. What was at issue was a couple of things. Number one, whether he was saying enough to stand trial,

trial. And number two was whether or not the confession that he gave was coerced, because that was part of the defense's argument as well. But that second issue was pretty quickly resolved. And the way it was resolved was very interesting, Gibbs, because they had stainer on tape, right? He had made all these confessions on tape. But the other thing that they had him on tape, for was that he had made some demands of things that he wanted before he would give his confession. The first was that he wanted his parents to get the reward money that Carol's family had put up. Really? Yeah. That's kind of balzy. Yeah. Okay. That was his first demand. His second demand was that he wanted to be incarcerated at a prison near,

his parents home. Keep in mind, this is a guy that murdered four people, and he's laying out some pretty ballsy demands. I like that word. But that wasn't the best one. The best one was that he wanted a large, this is how it was said, a large inventory of child pornography that he would be allowed to keep in prison. Now, you know no way in hell, are they going to give him a bunch of child pornography?

What weird? It's all weird. Sure, but what a strange request. So once the jury heard this tape of him making all these demands, that issue of a coerced confession pretty much went out the window. Yeah. Now they had the slam dunk they needed. Yeah.

You had the defense. They tried to talk about his history of sexual abuse. And they talked about the fact that, you know, he may have had some types of mental illness. And they used that to say that that's what led to him committing these murders. Not only that, but also what led him to make these crazy requests, right? So they're throwing everything against the wall. But the jury, they didn't buy any of that.

So they determined that he was sane and they convicted him of the other. three murders. And for those, he got the death sentence. And as of right now, he is in San Quentin on death row, where I know you and I both think he should be. Oh, yeah. Needs to be there. Probably walking around naked in a cell.

Yeah. Probably just hanging out. Just hanging out. Just hanging out. So to wrap this up, the Sund family, they did get a middle. million dollar wrongful death settlement from the Cedar Lodge. That's nothing, right, compared to what they lost. I mean, they lost a mom, a daughter.

They lost a lot. But that's the, uh, the strange case of Kerry Stainer. It is. I mean, it's, like you said, when we first started it, you know, it's a case and it has other parts, you know, entangled with it, you know, like, it's just, tragic from day one really well and think about his parents carry and stephen's parents think about what they went through they had a son that was kidnapped and gone for seven eight years yep and then later and i don't know if they were alive or still alive well but then this that son that they had he dies at 24 and then

Carrie goes on to become a convicted murderer. And let's not forget that they had a, either the mom or dad had a brother that molested, you know, Carrie. Oh, I forgot about that. You know, so you have all that. Yeah, I mean, just what, what a bunch of shit. Yeah.

That those parents had to go through. And the three sisters. And the sisters, which, you know, we haven't said anything about them. but, you know, I can't even imagine what they went through with their lives with all this happening. Yeah, just horrific all the way around for the family. All right, so that's the case of Kerry Stainer. And that wraps up another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.